ESPN article blasts "has-been" Jordan for Kobe comments

[Extempo]

[QUOTE]You're only 47, MJ. Why are you acting like Uncle Rico from "Napoleon Dynamite?" You saying you could score 100 points in today's NBA is like Uncle Rico reminiscing about his high school football heyday, telling Kip, "Ohhhh, man I wish I could go back in time. I'd take state." No, Uncle Rico, you wouldn't. And, no, Your Greatness, you wouldn't drop 100 even though Joe Dumars handchecking is no longer allowed. It's possible that, in your heyday, you might not have even been able to best Kobe Bryant's 81.

Ah, Kobe. You slipped that old man haterade by us real slick. When asked about Kobe's greatness legacy, MJ mulled over his successor's resume and credentials and came to the conclusion that, "If you are talking about guards, I would say he has got to be in the top 10." Ya think? Just top 10 though, huh? Couldn't narrow that down? There aren't five greater guards than Kobe. MJ knows that, we all know that. That was a Mercury Morris move, MJ. The way things are going, next June, when Kobe is going for his MJ-tying sixth ring, we might see MJ pop up on ESPN spouting anti Kobe raps

[Doranku]

Who cares? Terrible article. The author acts as if MJ feels threatened by Kobe or something. :oldlol:

Jordan is the GOAT, he can say whatever he wants about whoever he wants as far as I'm concerned. He's earned it.

[Sarcastic]

Who the hell is Vincent Thomas. Never heard of this hack before.

Comparing Jordan to uncle Rico is like Michaelangelo to your kid's crappy kindergarten finger painting you have in your cubicle.

[Allstar24]

:roll: Any article that makes a reference to Uncle Rico is worth my time.

[AirTupac]

Biased writer is biased. :confusedshrug:

[raptorfan_dr07]

That, my friends, is why he's writing on Page 2.(not that ESPN's main writers are much better)

[creepingdeath]

Who cares? Terrible article. The author acts as if MJ feels threatened by Kobe or something. :oldlol:

Jordan is the GOAT, he can say whatever he wants about whoever he wants as far as I'm concerned. He's earned it.
/+1

Very revealing if even a Kobe homer (no offense, bro) says that.

[the GIBBET]

Jordan just tries to live up to the media caricature of him with all these comments.

[RoseCity07]

The article was poorly written. I felt like I was reading someones hate blog.

This guy is really mad.

[ashbelly]

Fail.. :rolleyes: :facepalm

[NuggetsFan]

Poorly written. Someone could have easily burned MJ for his comments and done it in a much better way.

[ashbelly]

Poorly written. Someone could have easily burned MJ for his comments and done it in a much better way.

How do you propose they go about it ?? All MJ has to do is point out his 10 scoring titles to Kobe's 1. ,Also averaged 30PPG throughout his career.. And you guys think he couldn't score 100 points in one game ?


:oldlol: :oldlol:

[NuggetsFan]

How do you propose they go about it ?? All MJ has to do is point out his 10 scoring titles to Kobe's 1. And you guys think he couldn't score 100 points ?


:oldlol: :oldlol:

Calm down. Saying he could score 100 points in today's league and saying Kobe is only a top 10 guard are comments that someone could have proved false well the top 10 guard thing. All I meant is someone could have wrote a much better article about MJ's comments being wrong\bad.

[Juges8932]

How do you propose they go about it ?? All MJ has to do is point out his 10 scoring titles to Kobe's 1. ,Also averaged 30PPG throughout his career.. And you guys think he couldn't score 100 points in one game ?


:oldlol: :oldlol:

Kobe has 2.

I think MJ could have scored 100 in his prime.

[OmniStrife]

Biased writer is biased. :confusedshrug:
My thoughts exactly.

[Maga_1]

The article was poorly written. I felt like I was reading someones hate blog.

This guy is really mad.
:applause:

[Foster5k]

Um..

How in the blue hell can you compare the GOAT, Micheal Jordan, to Uncle Rico from Napoleon Dynamite. Micheal Jordan was the face of the league. He single handily made the NBA more global and marketable. His stats, gold medals, and championships speak legendary.

When the GOAT says he could drop 100, in today's NBA, you can take it to the bank. No, he isn't a delusional Uncle Rico. He is the GOAT.

[monkeypox]

Page 2 is the tabloid section of espn. Just remember that when you read something there that you agree with, and maybe consider that your take might be stupid.

[Solid Snake]

Totally agree with the writer's comments. Who the HELL cares whether it's unprofesional in tone or biased????? The ****ing shit is true.

[Ne 1]

Um..

How in the blue hell can you compare the GOAT, Micheal Jordan, to Uncle Rico from Napoleon Dynamite. Micheal Jordan was the face of the league. He single handily made the NBA more global and marketable. His stats, gold medals, and championships speak legendary.

When the GOAT says he could drop 100, in today's NBA, you can take it to the bank. No, he isn't a delusional Uncle Rico. He is the GOAT.

The guy exposed Jordan as an insecure biter old man.

Also Jordan isn't the GOAT. You say he's the GOAT and dosen't deserve to be criticized because of endorsements and popularity? :oldlol:

[SevereUpInHere]

Maybe he has plans to trade in his creased, dry-cleaned jeans for some shorts.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_f4Fo_GlfJs8/SqpnODDE-EI/AAAAAAAACt0/s3bPmE4AYIs/s400/michael+jordan+jeans.jpg

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Glide2keva]

Why is it such an insult that mj said Kobe is a top ten guard all time? If you guys put him at number 2, would that also mean that he is top ten?

And him saying he could drop 100 isn't a stretch either. He was one of those players that could do anything he wanted to on the court, when he wanted to do it. If he wanted to score 100, there aren't too many people who could stop him.

I think people are just mad he didn't say he was better than him. The truth is he isn't.

[knightfall88]

as if MJ can score 100, he can't even shoot 3s consistently - thats why he hasnt topped 70 - takes a major shot jacker to put up those points

[Glide2keva]

as if MJ can score 100, he can't even shoot 3s consistently - thats why he hasnt topped 70 - takes a major shot jacker to put up those points
Not sure if serious

[tpols]

Not sure if serious
What do you mean? Jordan never had a deadly 3 ball to the extent kobe has one. Kobe can go lights out with double digit 3 pointers in a game and that greatly helps in amassing a huge point total. Think about it. It's 50% more points with way less effort than driving or working out of the post. It's pretty much the reason kobe has had bigger scoring explosions than jordan.

[StacksOnDeck]

Great article. MJ couldn't drop 81 in this era let alone 100. His career high is 69 in overtime. Old ass n*gga...

[ashbelly]

What do you mean? Jordan never had a deadly 3 ball to the extent kobe has one. Kobe can go lights out with double digit 3 pointers in a game and that greatly helps in amassing a huge point total. Think about it. It's 50% more points with way less effort than driving or working out of the post. It's pretty much the reason kobe has had bigger scoring explosions than jordan.

Yet Jordan has 10 scoring titles averaging 30 PPG throughout his Career. Kobe has averaged 25PPG and 2 scoring titles. Even Iverson has 5 scoring titles. Is it the 81 point game that makes you think he's a great scorer ?? Because his career numbers don't support this theory at all. :oldlol:

[Ne 1]

Yet Jordan has 10 scoring titles averaging 30 PPG throughout his Career. Kobe has averaged 25PPG and 2 scoring titles. Even Iverson has 5 scoring titles. Is it the 81 point game that makes you think he's a great scorer ?? Because his career numbers don't support this theory at all. :oldlol:

Yeah and Jordan led the league in FGA's a record 10 times! Kobe would have more scoring titles if he led the NBA in jacking up shots for 10 seasons.

Also Kobe's career average as a starter is 27 PPG.

[ashbelly]

Yeah and Jordan led the league in FGA's a record 10 times! Kobe would have more scoring titles if he led the NBA in jacking up shots for 10 seasons.

Also Kobe's career average as a starter is 27 PPG.


Can we also remove jordan years when he was playing for the wizards ?? :oldlol: Stop making excuses.

[jstern]

What do you mean? Jordan never had a deadly 3 ball to the extent kobe has one. Kobe can go lights out with double digit 3 pointers in a game and that greatly helps in amassing a huge point total. Think about it. It's 50% more points with way less effort than driving or working out of the post. It's pretty much the reason kobe has had bigger scoring explosions than jordan.
What about 89-1990 Jordan. He was a better 3 point shooter than Kobe Bryant, and shot more 3 pointers than almost all his previous seasons.

[Ne 1]

Can we also remove jordan years when he was playing for the wizards ?? :oldlol: Stop making excuses.

Nope because he was starting.

He's wasn't a 17 year old kid playing limited minutes because their were already 2 other established all-star guards on the team.

[Glide2keva]

What do you mean? Jordan never had a deadly 3 ball to the extent kobe has one. Kobe can go lights out with double digit 3 pointers in a game and that greatly helps in amassing a huge point total. Think about it. It's 50% more points with way less effort than driving or working out of the post. It's pretty much the reason kobe has had bigger scoring explosions than jordan.
Yet Kobe doesn't get 1/10 the respect Jordan gets and it eats you guys up inside.

Kobe can chuck away and get 81 points. The fact he needed to score that much against the worst team in the league in order to come back from 20 down just speaks for itself.

Jordan never scored over 70 because he never had to. Kobe got hot and went off for 81, Jordan cruised basically to 69, 18 boards, 6 assists 4 steals and 2 blocks.

Mikes big scoring games were effortless, or at least appeared so. It never seemed like he was chucking shots up. Kobe on theories hand, always looked like he was trying to score big by shooting 3 after 3. That shows he was more interested in his stats than he swathe outcome of the game. Take his double nickel game where he scored enough to get them in position to win, then gets the game winning ASSIST. That's something Kobe would never do because he would want the shot and thatsthe difference between these two players, in my opinion.

[Ne 1]

Kobe would have scored 100 eaisly against Craig Ehlo/Mark Price in double over time.

[tpols]

Yet Kobe doesn't get 1/10 the respect Jordan gets and it eats you guys up inside.

Kobe can chuck away and get 81 points. The fact he needed to score that much against the worst team in the league in order to come back from 20 down just speaks for itself.

Jordan never scored over 70 because he never had to. Kobe got hot and went off for 81, Jordan cruised basically to 69, 18 boards, 6 assists 4 steals and 2 blocks.

Mikes big scoring games were effortless, or at least appeared so. It never seemed like he was chucking shots up. Kobe on theories hand, always looked like he was trying to score big by shooting 3 after 3. That shows he was more interested in his stats than he swathe outcome of the game. Take his double nickel game where he scored enough to get them in position to win, then gets the game winning ASSIST. That's something Kobe would never do because he would want the shot and thatsthe difference between these two players, in my opinion.
I mean you can give your opinion on the matter and say 'jordan's scoring was effortless and flowed' while kobe 'had to force shot after shot' but thats really just your opinion and holds absolutely no water in any logical debate. Fact is kobe was smooth as butter from behind the 3pt line and he could set your team on fire on any given night. His 81 point game occured when his team was shooting piss poor from the field and he had to single handedly win the game. You can say all you want he was doing it for stats but in doing that you're doubting his thirst for victory and killer instinct, two things he has been known to have more than anyone else in his playing days and two aspects of his personality that have carried him to 5 rings. You can't really call it statpadding when he did it in a come from behind win. :confusedshrug:

[Glide2keva]

I mean you can give your opinion on the matter and say 'jordan's scoring was effortless and flowed' while kobe 'had to force shot after shot' but thats really just your opinion and holds absolutely no water in any logical debate. Fact is kobe was smooth as butter from behind the 3pt line and he could set your team on fire on any given night. His 81 point game occured when his team was shooting piss poor from the field and he had to single handedly win the game. You can say all you want he was doing it for stats but in doing that you're doubting his thirst for victory and killer instinct, two things he has been known to have more than anyone else in his playing days and two aspects of his personality that have carried him to 5 rings. You can't really call it statpadding when he did it in a come from behind win. :confusedshrug:
That's youropinion. Not a fact.

[elementally morale]

Jordan is the GOAT, he can say whatever he wants about whoever he wants as far as I'm concerned. He's earned it.

He has earned the right to talk like an as*hole, sure. But he still sounds like one.

BTW, the article was bad indeed.

[InspiredLebowski]

You can write that kind of shit and get a national audience?

[tpols]

That's youropinion. Not a fact.
No, I'm referencing the FACT that kobe did have bigger and better all-time scoring games than jordan and stating his 3pt shot as a reason for that FACT. You are just giving your opinion that kobe forces shots and jordan made it look effortless.:no:

[Glide2keva]

No, I'm referencing the FACT that kobe did have bigger and better all-time scoring games than jordan and stating his 3pt shot as a reason for that FACT. You are just giving your opinion that kobe forces shots and jordan made it look effortless.:no:
And I can give my opinion, just like you did based on the fact that I watched both players' entire careers.

Kobe had bigger scoring gamesthan Jordan, so what? Doesn't make him better than Jordan. It just means he scored a lot of points in some games. If you want to hang your hat on that, you have a pretty weak foundation to stand on, all but one of Kobe's really big scoring games came against weak competition and the other oneis against Dallas who was not known for being a defensive juggernaut. You're dancing into "my dad can beat up your dad" territory. You saying Jordan never broke 70 like he couldn't, just because he didn't, doesn't mean he couldn't. He never had to.

Go with that if it helps you sleep at night I guess. Not a big deal to me. Jordan was a better player, more effective scorer, better all around, worlds better defender and all the numbers and awards back that up. But hey, Kobe scored 81 in a game, whoopie!!!!

[the_wise_one]

How is Jordan being disrespectful to Kobe? If anything, he's being too kind.

[Glide2keva]

How is Jordan being disrespectful to Kobe? If anything, he's being too kind.
That's what I'm saying.

He didn't insult him in any way. But these Kobe groupies are all butt hurt because Jordan didn't say he was better than him. That wouldn't be true anyway, so what's the problem?

All Kobe fans thinks he's a top 5 or top one player. So that would automatically make him a top 10 guard. Where's the problem with that?

These Kobe groupies need to get over themselves. Seriously.

[playtetris]

That's what I'm saying.

He didn't insult him in any way. But these Kobe groupies are all butt hurt because Jordan didn't say he was better than him. That wouldn't be true anyway, so what's the problem?

All Kobe fans thinks he's a top 5 or top one player. So that would automatically make him a top 10 guard. Where's the problem with that?

These Kobe groupies need to get over themselves. Seriously.

i'm not a kobe groupie (not even really a fan), but you're plea copping...we both know what jordan meant when he said kobe is a top 10 guard of all time.

it's like saying hendrix is in the top 100 guitarists of all time. not untrue, but disrespectful nevertheless

[Hotlantadude81]

http://espn.go.com/espn/page2/index?id=5695896

:cheers: Love it.

Comparing Kobe to MJ is like comparing Aerosmith to the Stones. They're a good knockoff, but at the end of the day their still just a knockoff.

[Da_Realist]

What do you mean? Jordan never had a deadly 3 ball to the extent kobe has one. Kobe can go lights out with double digit 3 pointers in a game and that greatly helps in amassing a huge point total. Think about it. It's 50% more points with way less effort than driving or working out of the post. It's pretty much the reason kobe has had bigger scoring explosions than jordan.

In the regular season. Kobe's "style" works perfectly in the regular season. Not so much in the playoffs. The most explosive regular season scorer couldn't manage more than 50 points even once in 198 playoff games. And only scored 50 once. A dude that scored 81 points in a game...and 65 through 3 quarters in another isn't capable of topping 50 in the playoffs. Why is that?

MJ, a much less explosive scorer as has been proven on ISH, did this 6 times.

[niko]

SInce MJ said he wouldn't have done what Lebron did, ESPN has occasional blog posts, articles, etc. taking little shots at him. It's gay. I'm sorry he doesn't worship Lebron but it's MJ. MJ STILL thinks he is the best, i mean right now. That type of delusion is common for all time greats.

[asdf1990]

why do ppl keep saying kobe is a better scorer than jordan? last time i checked jordan has the highes ppg average in the regular season and the playoffs. He has more scoring titles, higher single season ppg.

[tpols]

In the regular season. Kobe's "style" works perfectly in the regular season. Not so much in the playoffs. The most explosive regular season scorer couldn't manage more than 50 points even once in 198 playoff games. And only scored 50 once. A dude that scored 81 points in a game...and 65 through 3 quarters in another isn't capable of topping 50 in the playoffs. Why is that?

MJ, a much less explosive scorer as has been proven on ISH, did this 6 times.
Yea and all those games came in the first round or when his team wasn't winning shit. Kobe routinely rapes the first couple rounds (as was the case this year) but all I ever hear is how he can't perform in the finals.

[AJ2k8]

There's a whole lot of thought going into what he said, don't think it should nor did i think it would get this much attention but anyway. As another poster said it's MJ, who cares what he says because he earned the right to say it... At the same time that doesn't necessarily make it non disrespectful.

Anyway with that said i'm thinking it was said more to stir things up and keep himself in the news then it was a stab at kobe, but that's just my opinion:cheers:

[Skip Bayless]

Poorly written article.

[Leviathon1121]

Yea and all those games came in the first round or when his team wasn't winning shit. Kobe routinely rapes the first couple rounds (as was the case this year) but all I ever hear is how he can't perform in the finals.

55 points in the 93' Finals.

54 points in the 93' ECF.

Both of these do not match your posts qualifiers.

[Da_Realist]

Yea and all those games came in the first round or when his team wasn't winning shit. Kobe routinely rapes the first couple rounds (as was the case this year) but all I ever hear is how he can't perform in the finals.

1986 First Round -- 63 vs Celtics (lost game, lost series)

1988 First Round -- 55 vs Cavaliers (won game, won series)

1992 First Round -- 56 vs Heat (won game, won series)

1993 Conference Semis -- 54 vs Knicks (won game, won series)

1993 NBA Finals -- 55 vs Suns (won game, won series)

1997 First Round -- 55 vs Bullets (won game, won series)

Not only did they win 5 of six of those games, they won 5 of 6 of those series. And the last 4 occurred during championship runs. :facepalm

Kobe's played in 198 playoff games and never once scored more than 50, regardless of the playoff round or whether he was on a championship squad or not. Why hasn't the most explosive regular season scorer topped 50 in the playoffs?

[Calabis]

LMAO at this article....maybe the author should try learning to read...he said although he is not finished with his career, he has to be a top 10 guard right now....wow what a bash on Kobe....Jordan also does not call himself the GOAT...he always states because he never got to play against Baylor, West, Russell....kobestans are comical

[Calabis]

Yea and all those games came in the first round or when his team wasn't winning shit. Kobe routinely rapes the first couple rounds (as was the case this year) but all I ever hear is how he can't perform in the finals.

MORON!!!!:roll:

[tpols]

1986 First Round -- 63 vs Celtics (lost game, lost series)

1988 First Round -- 55 vs Cavaliers (won game, won series)

1992 First Round -- 56 vs Heat (won game, won series)

1993 Conference Semis -- 54 vs Knicks (won game, won series)

1993 NBA Finals -- 55 vs Suns (won game, won series)

1997 First Round -- 55 vs Bullets (won game, won series)

Not only did they win 5 of six of those games, they won 5 of 6 of those series. And the last 4 occurred during championship runs. :facepalm

Kobe's played in 198 playoff games and never once scored more than 50, regardless of the playoff round or whether he was on a championship squad or not. Why hasn't the most explosive regular season scorer topped 50 in the playoffs?
Kobe played with shaq for most of his playoff games so it's not really surprising he wasn't able to get as many shot attempts off with the most dominant offensive center ever on his team. When he was in his peak/prime he only played like ten playoff games and put up insane stats in them regardless of if he missed your benchmark by a couple points. If kobe never had had shaq he would've won less rings but he would've had ten times the opportunities to have scored 50, 60, and/or 70+ in the playoffs.

[Da_Realist]

Kobe played with shaq for most of his playoff games so it's not really surprising he wasn't able to get as many shot attempts off with the most dominant offensive center ever on his team. When he was in his peak/prime he only played like ten playoff games and put up insane stats in them regardless of if he missed your benchmark by a couple points. If kobe never had had shaq he would've won less rings but he would've had ten times the opportunities to have scored 50, 60, and/or 70+ in the playoffs.

And if Jordan chose to score as many points as possible against the worst teams in the league during the regular season he would have had many opportunities to score 81 or more. :confusedshrug:

[Calabis]

What do you mean? Jordan never had a deadly 3 ball to the extent kobe has one. Kobe can go lights out with double digit 3 pointers in a game and that greatly helps in amassing a huge point total. Think about it. It's 50% more points with way less effort than driving or working out of the post. It's pretty much the reason kobe has had bigger scoring explosions than jordan.

Yeah Kobe can just go on tears that Jordan never could.....Jordan 8(9 if you want to round off) 30 point seasons, Kobe 2.....yeah I see what your getting at with this great 3 pointer (Jordan .327/Kobe .340) yup real huge...playoffs (Jordan .332/ Kobe .337)

[Glide2keva]

Kobe played with shaq for most of his playoff games so it's not really surprising he wasn't able to get as many shot attempts off with the most dominant offensive center ever on his team. When he was in his peak/prime he only played like ten playoff games and put up insane stats in them regardless of if he missed your benchmark by a couple points. If kobe never had had shaq he would've won less rings but he would've had ten times the opportunities to have scored 50, 60, and/or 70+ in the playoffs.
Now we have the shaq excuse.

[Glide2keva]

Yeah Kobe can just go on tears that Jordan never could.....Jordan 8(9 if you want to round off) 30 point seasons, Kobe 2.....yeah I see what your getting at with this great 3 pointer (Jordan .327/Kobe .340) yup real huge...playoffs (Jordan .332/ Kobe .337)
Owned again. This is getting laughable.

[Willkill24]

Kobe is the best of all time.

[Calabis]

And if Jordan chose to score as many points as possible against the worst teams in the league during the regular season he would have had many opportunities to score 81 or more. :confusedshrug:

How quick these young morons forget, how many times he sat out on special nights "the shrug" sat out the last 6 1/2 minutes of the first half, took only four shots in second half....if that was Kobe he would have asked to stay in and keep chucking...:eek:

Let me know when Kobe avg's 40 in the finals

[Calabis]

Kobe is the best of his generation and possibly top 6 player at end of his career.

FIXED

[Calabis]

Now we have the shaq excuse.

Hmm one of his 30 point seasons was with Shaq and that season was his second career highest in FGA's at 23 per game...that damn Shaq hurt Kobe's legacy:roll:

Kobe's legacy without 3 chips???? Hmmm makes me wonder..can we say Dominique Wikins

[Da_Realist]

How quick these young morons forget, how many times he sat out on special nights "the shrug" sat out the last 6 1/2 minutes of the first half, took only four shots in second half....if that was Kobe he would have asked to stay in and keep chucking...:eek:

Let me know when Kobe avg's 40 in the finals

Exactly. Kobe and Jordan had different mentalities. I just find it odd that a guy that can throw up 81 hasn't been able to score 51 in the playoffs. No, I don't. I know why. It's because teams have pride in the playoffs, even in the first round. And typically, to win playoff games the best player has to do more than stand behind the 3pt line waiting on teammates to feed him the ball. So this negates a lot of what Kobe's able to do in the regular season.

[tpols]

Yeah Kobe can just go on tears that Jordan never could.....Jordan 8(9 if you want to round off) 30 point seasons, Kobe 2.....yeah I see what your getting at with this great 3 pointer (Jordan .327/Kobe .340) yup real huge...playoffs (Jordan .332/ Kobe .337)
How is a 30ppg season an explosion?:oldlol: We're talking about big games here buddy and kobe's elite scoring games are better. It's just a fact. And lol at your 3pt argument acting like kobe doesn't have twice as many 3 balls made than jordan. Reachin hard my man but the facts remain. Kobe had more range than jordan and was a better shooter (and had better elite scoring games~best the league has ever seen since wilt).

[tpols]

Hmm one of his 30 point seasons was with Shaq and that season was his second career highest in FGA's at 23 per game...that damn Shaq hurt Kobe's legacy:roll:

Kobe's legacy without 3 chips???? Hmmm makes me wonder..can we say Dominique Wikins
Uh... he has two other chips and will likely have more but going with your hypothetical, jordan would be 'nique 2.0 with no rings.

[Willkill24]

FIXED

5 time champion and really he should of won in 03/04/08 so you could call him an 8 time champion and the GOAT IMO.

[Ne 1]

why do ppl keep saying kobe is a better scorer than jordan? last time i checked jordan has the highes ppg average in the regular season and the playoffs. He has more scoring titles, higher single season ppg.

No surprise. Jordan was the biggest ballhog in NBA history, dude led the league in jacking up shots a recorded 9 times and averaged 24 fg attempts per game for his career! But that's not all!

He shots the ball 49 times in one game, in 15 years he shot the ball..24,567 times a record for a 15 year career!

He had seasons' of 25 FG attempt's, 28 FG attempts and 24 FG attempts per game.

Doug Collins wanted MJ to pass more and MJ had Doug fired!!!! (this was before Pippen emerged as the facilitator)

[tpols]

Exactly. Kobe and Jordan had different mentalities. I just find it odd that a guy that can throw up 81 hasn't been able to score 51 in the playoffs. No, I don't. I know why. It's because teams have pride in the playoffs, even in the first round. And typically, to win playoff games the best player has to do more than stand behind the 3pt line waiting on teammates to feed him the ball. So this negates a lot of what Kobe's able to do in the regular season.
What is this retard spewing? Kobe has been the consensus most clutch player in the league the whole decade in the reg season and in the playoffs. Can't believe you just insulted kobe on some clutch shit. You need some reading up seriously.

[Da_Realist]

Doug Collins wanted MJ to pass more and MJ had Doug fired!!!! (this was before Pippen emerged as the facilitator)

So why didn't he get Phil Jackson fired? Doug installed a "Give the ball to Michael and get the hell out of the way" offense. Phil wanted to have more people make decisions with the ball. Yet MJ wanted Collins fired, but he LOVED Phil Jackson. Even threatened the Bulls with retirement if they fired Phil Jackson in the late 90's. Doesn't make sense.

[Glide2keva]

What is this retard spewing? Kobe has been the consensus most clutch player in the league the whole decade in the reg season and in the playoffs. Can't believe you just insulted kobe on some clutch shit. You need some reading up seriously.
Yep U Mad

[tpols]

Yep U Mad
This is what jordan fans resort to.:oldlol: :applause:

[Glide2keva]

So why didn't he get Phil Jackson fired? Doug installed a "Give the ball to Michael and get the hell out of the way" offense. Phil wanted to have more people make decisions with the ball. Yet MJ wanted Collins fired, but he LOVED Phil Jackson. Even threatened the Bulls with retirement if they fired Phil Jackson in the late 90's. Doesn't make sense.
Nothing they ever say makes any sense. They take small things or rumors and try to pass it off as fact.

Saying Jordan didn't want to pass the ball is beyond stupid. In 89, with Doug Collins as the coach he played Jordan at point guard for 11 games. Jordan only went on to record 7 straight triple doubles or so and 10 in 11 games, while averaging over 40 points per game during that stretch. But yeah, he wanted to ball hog and got him fired.

[Ne 1]

Kobe's legacy without 3 chips???? Hmmm makes me wonder..can we say Dominique Wikins

Jordan's legacy without 6 chips? Bald-headed Dominique Wilkins. Jordan was actually well on his way to a career like Wilkins with flashy dunks but no rings before Pippen. He was 1-9 in the playoffs and never got past the 1st round! :oldlol:

[Glide2keva]

This is what jordan fans resort to.:oldlol: :applause:
Just felt like doing it. You guys are getting owned left and right and it's funny. You are pissed that Jordan trumps Kobe on every level.

[Ne 1]

1996 NBA Finals
Bulls 4, Sonics 2
GM1: 9-18 FG (50%), 9-10 FT, 28 PTS, 7 REB, 2 AST, 2 TO
GM2: 9-22 FG (40.9%), 10-16 FT, 29 PTS, 6 REB, 8 AST, 2 TO
GM3: 11-23 FG (47.8%), 11-11 FT, 36 PTS, 3 REB, 5 AST, 3 TO
GM4: 6-19 FG (31.6%), 11-13 FT, 23 PTS, 3 REB, 2 AST, 4 TO
GM5: 11-22 FG (50%), 4-5 FT, 26 PTS, 4 REB, 1 AST, 2 TO
GM6: 5-19 FG (26.3%), 11-12 FT, 22 PTS, 9 REB, 7 AST, 5 TO
AVERAGES: 51-123 FG (41.5%), 56-67 FT (83.6%), 27.3 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 4.2 APG, 3.00 TO, 20.5 FGA per game

1997 NBA Finals
Bulls 4, Jazz 2
GM1: 13-27 FG (48.1%), 5-7 FT, 31 PTS, 4 REB, 8 AST, 0 TO
GM2: 11-20 FG (55%), 15-21 FT, 38 PTS, 13 REB, 9 AST, 5 TO
GM3: 9-22 FG (40.9%), 4-5 FT, 26 PTS, 3 REB, 6 AST, 1 TO
GM4: 11-27 FG (40.7%), 0-0 FT, 22 PTS, 4 REB, 4 AST, 3 TO
GM5: 13-27 FG (48.2%), 10-12 FT, 38 PTS, 7 REB, 5 AST, 3 TO
GM6: 15-35 FG (42.9%), 8-10 FT, 39 PTS, 11 REB, 4 AST, 1 TO
AVERAGES: 72-158 FG (45.6%), 42-55 FT (76.4%), 32.3 PPG, 7.0 RPG, 6.0 APG, 2.17 TO, 26.3 FGA per game

1998 NBA Finals
Bulls 4, Jazz 2
GM1: 13-29 FG (44.8%), 6-8 FT, 33 PTS, 3 REB, 2 AST, 0 TO
GM2: 14-33 FG (42.4%), 9-10 FT, 37 PTS, 5 REB, 3 AST, 0 TO
GM3: 7-14 FG (50%), 10-11 FT, 24 PTS, 3 REB, 2 AST, 2 TO
GM4: 12-27 FG (44.4%), 10-15 FT, 34 PTS, 8 REB, 2 AST, 3 TO
GM5: 9-26 FG (34.6%), 10-11 FT, 28 PTS, 4 REB, 4 AST, 4 TO
GM6: 15-35 FG (42.9%), 12-15 FT, 45 PTS, 1 REB, 1 AST, 1 TO
AVERAGES: 70-164 FG (42.7%), 57-70 FT (81.4%), 33.5 PPG, 4 RPG, 2.3 APG, 1.67 TO, 27.3 FGA per game

---------------------------------

Just a few things:

1) The number of shots taken, compared to the amount of points scored, must not be that big of a deal when Michael Jordan shoots the ball. In 21 of the 34 games, Jordan had no more than seven points over his shot attempts that game.

2) Despite winning two season MVP's in two of the last three championships seasons (1996 and 1998), Jordan's field goal percentages were fairly low, especially for a guy taking 26-27 shots per game.

3) Jordan attempted over 25 shots per game four years, and actually launched over 33 shots per game in 1993. He never attempted less than 20 shots per game in six Finals appearances.

4) In six of Jordan's 34 Finals games, he missed five or more free throws. In other words, on average, there was one Finals game in each season where Jordan, being a career 83.5% free throw shooter, missed five or six free throws.

Also, Jordan matched or exceeded his career free throw shooting percentage just three times in six of his Finals appearances.

5) Jordan's assists, over a combined 34 Finals games, comes to 5.97 APG. He averaged 2.83 turnovers per game. For every two assists, he threw an average of approximately one turnover per game.

Just some things to chew on, and to have for future references when discussing NBA Finals performances, shooting percentages, turnovers, missed free throws, etc.

With all the articles blasting Bryant and his shot attempts and Finals performances, it might be good to look back on someone who was rarely criticized for anything he ever did.

[Jacks3]

Exactly. Kobe and Jordan had different mentalities. I just find it odd that a guy that can throw up 81 hasn't been able to score 51 in the playoffs. No, I don't. I know why. It's because teams have pride in the playoffs, even in the first round. And typically, to win playoff games the best player has to do more than stand behind the 3pt line waiting on teammates to feed him the ball. So this negates a lot of what Kobe's able to do in the regular season.

LMAO at this garbage. lol @ using 51 points as a barometer when he's had a 50 point game in the playoffs, and more 30+ point/40+ point games in the playoffs than anybody in the league. :roll:

[tpols]

Just felt like doing it. You guys are getting owned left and right and it's funny. You are pissed that Jordan trumps Kobe on every level.
Not pissed because I know jordan>kobe. But kobe has had better elite scoring games and that is something that eats jordan fans up. How could a guy that is so inferior possibly have bigger scoring explosions? Not exactly sure, but I know that simple fact brings you guys coming back for more.:oldlol:

[step_back]

5 time champion and really he should of won in 03/04/08 so you could call him an 8 time champion and the GOAT IMO.

What kind of logic is that?

He could have won 8 rings? if were talking about what players could have done then Len Bias could have been better than Jordan. Grant hill could have dominated had he not gotten injured. Lebron could have 1 chip if the Cavs won against the spurs.

Kobe is a 5 time champion. Regardless of whether or not he could have won another 3 it doesn't change anything.

[Jacks3]

And if Jordan chose to score as many points as possible against the worst teams in the league during the regular season he would have had many opportunities to score 81 or more. :confusedshrug:
:roll:

Jordan, especially young Jordan, was a far bigger chucker than Kobe and he never came even close to 81. The only closest he got was 69 and he needed overtime to do that. You Jordan stans are ****ing ridiculous.

[tpols]

What kind of logic is that?

He could have won 8 rings? if were talking about what players could have done then Len Bias could have been better than Jordan. Grant hill could have dominated had he not gotten injured. Lebron could have 1 chip if the Cavs won against the spurs.

Kobe is a 5 time champion. Regardless of whether or not he could have won another 3 it doesn't change anything.
Hey man don't step mid way into a debate and state your uninformed opinion. He was clearly responding to calabis who was saying kobe would be 'nique if he had no rings.

[Jacks3]

George Gervin

1979-80: 33.1 PTS (.528 FG%)
1981-82: 32.3 PTS (.500 FG%)

Adrian Dantley

1980-81: 30.7 PTS (.559 FG%)
1981-82: 30.3 PTS (.570 FG%)
1982-83: 30.7 PTS (.580 FG%)
1983-84: 30.6 PTS (.558 FG%)

Mark Aguire

1983-84: 29.5 PTS (.524 FG%)

Kiki Vandeseghe

1983-84: 29.4 PTS (.558 FG%)

Mark Aguire

1983-84: 29.5 PTS (.524 FG%)

Bernard King

1984-85: 32.9 PTS (.530 FG%)

Alex English

1985-86: 29.8 PTS (.504 FG%)
1986-87: 28.6 PTS (.503 FG%)

Larry Bird

1987-88: 29.9 PTS (.527 FG%)


... and there are tons of players who were in the 27-28 PTS range with very high FG%'s, they just weren't taking enough shots to get 30+.

lol @ MJ playing in the pathetic 80's and never even coming close to 81. :roll:

[Calabis]

How is a 30ppg season an explosion?:oldlol: We're talking about big games here buddy and kobe's elite scoring games are better. It's just a fact. And lol at your 3pt argument acting like kobe doesn't have twice as many 3 balls made than jordan. Reachin hard my man but the facts remain. Kobe had more range than jordan and was a better shooter (and had better elite scoring games~best the league has ever seen since wilt).


Let me see Kobe has more 3 pointers than MJ...wow he's made more than Bird too, because he jacks twice as many...Bird most in one season was 270+, Kobe 300+ 7 times(different era's, smarter players)....Kobe 60+ in three quarters..yeah let's leave out the 25 ft he took that game, more than Jordan in a 63 point playoff effort full game....Kobe does indeed have more range than MJ(so did Reggie Miller), that's not what is being disputed, according to you he is capable of scoring more, yet in 13 seasons with the Bulls, Jordan scored 29277(with two seasons basically missed, Kobe in 14 seasons with the Lakers 25790),hmmm why less points???....Sorry give me consistency in a physical, punishing league, over once in a lifetime outbursts, that never happen in the playoffs in a perimeter player friendly, ticky tack foul league. As great as a scorer Kobe is the dude has 2 scoring titles....that's comical...he's a volume scorer not a consistent one

[Calabis]

5 time champion and really he should of won in 03/04/08 so you could call him an 8 time champion and the GOAT IMO.

And Jordan should have won 8 in a row...shoulda, woulda, coulda...lmao at GOAT

[tpols]

Let me see Kobe has more 3 pointers than MJ...wow he's made more than Bird too, because he jacks twice as many...Bird most in one season was 270+, Kobe 300+ 7 times(different era's, smarter players)....Kobe 60+ in three quarters..yeah let's leave out the 25 ft he took that game, more than Jordan in a 63 point playoff effort full game....Kobe does indeed have more range than MJ(so did Reggie Miller), that's not what is being disputed, according to you he is capable of scoring more, yet in 13 seasons with the Bulls, Jordan scored 29277(with two seasons basically missed, Kobe in 14 seasons with the Lakers 25790),hmmm why less points???....Sorry give me consistency in a physical, punishing league, over once in a lifetime outbursts, that never happen in the playoffs in a perimeter player friendly, ticky tack foul league. As great as a scorer Kobe is the dude has 2 scoring titles....that's comical...he's a volume scorer not a consistent one
Lol kobe shoots more, makes more, and is more efficient. But that means nothing...hahahaha

And I never said kobe is a better scorer than jordan. Reading comp. fail. I said he has better elite scoring games. His peak scoring potential for a game is higher than MJ's. All I'm saying. L2read dawg.

[oh the horror]

Im sorry but are people once again having the "whos better" debate between Mike, and Kobe? Seriously?


:roll:

[Calabis]

Uh... he has two other chips and will likely have more but going with your hypothetical, jordan would be 'nique 2.0 with no rings.

UHH no Shaq, much different career, never a champion, wouldn't know what it took, possible no longer a Laker, possibly no Gasol and team he has today....if you want to exclude Shaq from his growing up in the NBA, then everything in his career changes...a ball hog no one would want to play with

[Da_Realist]

Let me see Kobe has more 3 pointers than MJ...wow he's made more than Bird too, because he jacks twice as many...Bird most in one season was 270+, Kobe 300+ 7 times(different era's, smarter players)....Kobe 60+ in three quarters..yeah let's leave out the 25 ft he took that game, more than Jordan in a 63 point playoff effort full game....Kobe does indeed have more range than MJ(so did Reggie Miller), that's not what is being disputed, according to you he is capable of scoring more, yet in 13 seasons with the Bulls, Jordan scored 29277(with two seasons basically missed, Kobe in 14 seasons with the Lakers 25790),hmmm why less points???....

Don't forget he missed most of the 86 season too.


Sorry give me consistency in a physical, punishing league, over once in a lifetime outbursts, that never happen in the playoffs in a perimeter player friendly, ticky tack foul league. As great as a scorer Kobe is the dude has 2 scoring titles....that's comical...he's a volume scorer not a consistent one

Bingo

[Ne 1]

Im sorry but are people once again having the "whos better" debate between Mike, and Kobe? Seriously?


:roll:


''Kobe is the best all around player that I have ever coached'' - Phil Jackson during the 2001 playoffs

[Calabis]

No surprise. Jordan was the biggest ballhog in NBA history, dude led the league in jacking up shots a recorded 9 times and averaged 24 fg attempts per game for his career! But that's not all!

He shots the ball 49 times in one game, in 15 years he shot the ball..24,567 times a record for a 15 year career!

He had seasons' of 25 FG attempt's, 28 FG attempts and 24 FG attempts per game.

Doug Collins wanted MJ to pass more and MJ had Doug fired!!!! (this was before Pippen emerged as the facilitator)

Yup he also hit 50% of those, please name another 2 guard that has done that...it sure the hell ain't Kobe, he hasn't sniffed 50%

[Jacks3]

Don't forget he missed most of the 86 season too.



Bingo

Wow. What a moron. :oldlol:

[Jacks3]

.he's a volume scorer not a consistent one
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Glide2keva]

Not pissed because I know jordan>kobe. But kobe has had better elite scoring games and that is something that eats jordan fans up. How could a guy that is so inferior possibly have bigger scoring explosions? Not exactly sure, but I know that simple fact brings you guys coming back for more.:oldlol:
That doesn't bother me one bit. I'm a basketball fan before I'm a player or team fan. I like seeing great performances like that. I don't rank games like that as better or worse than the others because they are all special. But when people try to compare them, you have to in to account who the competition was and the magnitude of the game.

Both players high point games are awesome but if you ask me which game I'd choose, it easy that I'd take Jordan dropping 69/18/6/4/2 on a future playoff opponent over Kobe dropping 81 on the worst team in the league. If you can't see the difference, then you're just blind. Did kobe have a great game? Yeah he did.

But in the end, Jordan did more in his highest scoring game than Kobe did in his. Jordan showed overall dominance on both ends of the floor, Kobe just scored 81 points.

[tpols]

UHH no Shaq, much different career, never a champion, wouldn't know what it took, possible no longer a Laker, possibly no Gasol and team he has today....if you want to exclude Shaq from his growing up in the NBA, then everything in his career changes...a ball hog no one would want to play with
You look at it in a negative way but I look at it positively. Kobe could've had many seasons of 35+ppg like he did during his peak w/o shaq and could've been better than MJ:confusedshrug:

[Jacks3]

Cavs record when Jordan scored 69 on them--32-37. :oldlol:

[tpols]

That doesn't bother me one bit. I'm a basketball fan before I'm a player or team fan. I like seeing great performances like that. I don't rank games like that as better or worse than the others because they are all special. But when people try to compare them, you have to in to account who the competition was and the magnitude of the game.

Both players high point games are awesome but if you ask me which game I'd choose, it easy that I'd take Jordan dropping 69/18/6/4/2 on a future playoff opponent over Kobe dropping 81 on the worst team in the league. If you can't see the difference, then you're just blind. Did kobe have a great game? Yeah he did.

But in the end, Jordan did more in his highest scoring game than Kobe did in his. Jordan showed overall dominance on both ends of the floor, Kobe just scored 81 points.All I'm talking about is scoring. Kobe led a team where chris mihm was his next best support to a win by dropping 81 in a come from behind win. Jordan needed two OT periods to even hit 69. Sorry Kobe clearly has better scoring bursts than jordan.:confusedshrug:

[Glide2keva]

Lol kobe shoots more, makes more, and is more efficient. But that means nothing...hahahaha

And I never said kobe is a better scorer than jordan. Reading comp. fail. I said he has better elite scoring games. His peak scoring potential for a game is higher than MJ's. All I'm saying. L2read dawg.
You're translating didn't to couldn't. Just because he didn't doesn't mean he couldn't. As I said before Jordan didn't have to score that much. If he needed to, he most likely would've.

Kobe loves to get shots up, damn his percentage.

[step_back]

Hey man don't step mid way into a debate and state your uninformed opinion. He was clearly responding to calabis who was saying kobe would be 'nique if he had no rings.

If Kobe had no rings it would seriously tarnish peoples opinion on him. Players have to win rings in order to cement their legacy. It the reason why Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Patrick Ewing never get the recognistion they deserve.
Comparing Kobe to nique is a cheap shot I do admit.


P.S
Don't tell me what I can and can't do on a message board.

[tpols]

You're translating didn't to couldn't. Just because he didn't doesn't mean he couldn't. As I said before Jordan didn't have to score that much. If he needed to, he most likely would've.

Kobe loves to get shots up, damn his percentage.
Lol do you really want to play the could have game? I'll focus on the facts here and not the opinions and speculation.

[Jacks3]

You're translating didn't to couldn't. Just because he didn't doesn't mean he couldn't. As I said before Jordan didn't have to score that much. If he needed to, he most likely would've.

Kobe loves to get shots up, damn his percentage.

And yet Jordan consistently took more FGA per game over the course of their careers. :roll:

[step_back]

Also how many of you on here are even old enough to have seen Jordan in his prime? or even see a game of his pre wizards era?

I find it hard to take an opinion seriously on Jordan when it comes from teenagers.

[Glide2keva]

All I'm talking about is scoring. Kobe led a team where chris mihm was his next best support to a win by dropping 81 in a come from behind win. Jordan needed two OT periods to even hit 69. Sorry Kobe clearly has better scoring bursts than jordan.:confusedshrug:
This is so full of fail.

To only look at scoring shows you're not a true basketball fan. If you were them what I said would've registered.

Kobe was down 20+ to the worst team in the league. Jordan was battling a playoff caliber in a close game. Kobe didn't look to get his team involved, Jordan did everything possible to win a close game, scoring, rebounding, blocking shots, dishing assists, getting steals etc. That means more to me as a basketball fan.

[Calabis]

1996 NBA Finals
Bulls 4, Sonics 2
GM1: 9-18 FG (50%), 9-10 FT, 28 PTS, 7 REB, 2 AST, 2 TO
GM2: 9-22 FG (40.9%), 10-16 FT, 29 PTS, 6 REB, 8 AST, 2 TO
GM3: 11-23 FG (47.8%), 11-11 FT, 36 PTS, 3 REB, 5 AST, 3 TO
GM4: 6-19 FG (31.6%), 11-13 FT, 23 PTS, 3 REB, 2 AST, 4 TO
GM5: 11-22 FG (50%), 4-5 FT, 26 PTS, 4 REB, 1 AST, 2 TO
GM6: 5-19 FG (26.3%), 11-12 FT, 22 PTS, 9 REB, 7 AST, 5 TO
AVERAGES: 51-123 FG (41.5%), 56-67 FT (83.6%), 27.3 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 4.2 APG, 3.00 TO, 20.5 FGA per game

1997 NBA Finals
Bulls 4, Jazz 2
GM1: 13-27 FG (48.1%), 5-7 FT, 31 PTS, 4 REB, 8 AST, 0 TO
GM2: 11-20 FG (55%), 15-21 FT, 38 PTS, 13 REB, 9 AST, 5 TO
GM3: 9-22 FG (40.9%), 4-5 FT, 26 PTS, 3 REB, 6 AST, 1 TO
GM4: 11-27 FG (40.7%), 0-0 FT, 22 PTS, 4 REB, 4 AST, 3 TO
GM5: 13-27 FG (48.2%), 10-12 FT, 38 PTS, 7 REB, 5 AST, 3 TO
GM6: 15-35 FG (42.9%), 8-10 FT, 39 PTS, 11 REB, 4 AST, 1 TO
AVERAGES: 72-158 FG (45.6%), 42-55 FT (76.4%), 32.3 PPG, 7.0 RPG, 6.0 APG, 2.17 TO, 26.3 FGA per game

1998 NBA Finals
Bulls 4, Jazz 2
GM1: 13-29 FG (44.8%), 6-8 FT, 33 PTS, 3 REB, 2 AST, 0 TO
GM2: 14-33 FG (42.4%), 9-10 FT, 37 PTS, 5 REB, 3 AST, 0 TO
GM3: 7-14 FG (50%), 10-11 FT, 24 PTS, 3 REB, 2 AST, 2 TO
GM4: 12-27 FG (44.4%), 10-15 FT, 34 PTS, 8 REB, 2 AST, 3 TO
GM5: 9-26 FG (34.6%), 10-11 FT, 28 PTS, 4 REB, 4 AST, 4 TO
GM6: 15-35 FG (42.9%), 12-15 FT, 45 PTS, 1 REB, 1 AST, 1 TO
AVERAGES: 70-164 FG (42.7%), 57-70 FT (81.4%), 33.5 PPG, 4 RPG, 2.3 APG, 1.67 TO, 27.3 FGA per game


KOBE TYPE NUMBERS AT AGE 33-35, after a retirement
---------------------------------

Just a few things:

1) The number of shots taken, compared to the amount of points scored, must not be that big of a deal when Michael Jordan shoots the ball. In 21 of the 34 games, Jordan had no more than seven points over his shot attempts that game.

2) Despite winning two season MVP's in two of the last three championships seasons (1996 and 1998), Jordan's field goal percentages were fairly low, especially for a guy taking 26-27 shots per game. Despite in 96 he shot 49%, something Kobe has never done and shot Kobe's best 47% in 98 despite being 35 :roll:

3) Jordan attempted over 25 shots per game four years, and actually launched over 33 shots per game in 1993. He never attempted less than 20 shots per game in six Finals appearances. Yet he was pretty consistent throughout the playoffs, shooting 48% for his career in a time where it mattered most, 6 times he shot 50% or better

4) In six of Jordan's 34 Finals games, he missed five or more free throws. In other words, on average, there was one Finals game in each season where Jordan, being a career 83.5% free throw shooter, missed five or six free throws. Yet Jordan how many game winner does MJ have in the finals? how many clutch moments??? Isn't Kobe shooting 81% in the playoffs, that less right then his career reg season and let's not forget 44 FG%

Also, Jordan matched or exceeded his career free throw shooting percentage just three times in six of his Finals appearances. [COLOR="Red"]All of Kobe's numbers drop or remain the same in the playoffs, Jordan 30ppg career, 33 ppg in playoffs, please try again

5) Jordan's assists, over a combined 34 Finals games, comes to 5.97 APG. He averaged 2.83 turnovers per game. For every two assists, he threw an average of approximately one turnover per game.

Just some things to chew on, and to have for future references when discussing NBA Finals performances, shooting percentages, turnovers, missed free throws, etc.

With all the articles blasting Bryant and his shot attempts and Finals performances, it might be good to look back on someone who was rarely criticized for anything he ever did.

I would post Bryant's, but it would be comical compared to Jordan's playoff resume

[Glide2keva]

Lol do you really want to play the could have game? I'll focus on the facts here and not the opinions and speculation.
Didn't say focus on that, just pointing out a flaw in your argument.

[Calabis]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Glad your laughing, because it's obvious you cannot differ from the two

[tpols]

This is so full of fail.

To only look at scoring shows you're not a true basketball fan. If you were them what I said would've registered.

Kobe was down 20+ to the worst team in the league. Jordan was battling a playoff caliber in a close game. Kobe didn't look to get his team involved, Jordan did everything possible to win a close game, scoring, rebounding, blocking shots, dishing assists, getting steals etc. That means more to me as a basketball fan.
Lol jordan beat the cavs when they had a losing record:facepalm Stop trying this bs. Jordan played in a faster pace and had ten extra minutes and he couldn't match kobe's 81. I'm clearly talking about scoring potential so why are you bringing up rebounds? Stay on topic.

[oh the horror]

Are we really saying Jordan couldnt score like Kobe? REALLY?


Mike had seasons of 37ppg, 35ppg, and various other seasons of over 30ppg, on over 50 percent from the field. Wtf are people even talking about around here?

[Jacks3]

Glad your laughing, because it's obvious you cannot differ from the two

:roll:

[Ne 1]

MJ played in an era against predominantly slow, weak, un-athletic white players in a watered down era.

People give MJ props for lighting up dudes like Craig Ehlo. His career high is 69 in double over time against that Cavs squad being guarded by Craigh Ehlo/Mark Price. :oldlol:

Kobe would have scored 100 against them in regulation.


Kobe had to go against defensive specialists like Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest, Shane Battier, Ruben Patterson etc. They didn't have these defensive specialists when Jordan was playing. Jordan was quoted saying the best defender he had to go against was Joe Dumars. Dumars is 6'3 195 pounds. The guy was thin as a rail and guarded MJ who is 6'6 216 pounds. Dumars was a skinny, slow, undersized PG and that's the best defender MJ had to go against.

Battier has a freaking manual on Kobe's tendencies! He was even quoted saying stayed up all night studying film and books of paper work compiled on Kobe's tendencies, yet when he's assigned to guard him Kobe scored 30 and 40+ on him. Even in that Houston series Kobe had Artest and Battier on him and he still scored on them with ease and couldn't stop him from winning. Not to mention he only went to the FT line 10 times once in the series. The rest of the games were all 7 or under.

[Glide2keva]

Lol jordan beat the cavs when they had a losing record:facepalm Stop trying this bs. Jordan played in a faster pace and had ten extra minutes and he couldn't match kobe's 81. I'm clearly talking about scoring potential so why are you bringing up rebounds? Stay on topic.
It's not bs, it's the truth. No matter what their record was, they made the playoffs. The raptors didn't and neither did the lakers.

I bring up everything else because point totals dint tell the whe story.

[Willkill24]

And Jordan should have won 8 in a row...shoulda, woulda, coulda...lmao at GOAT
Why did he retire then? Was scared of Hakeem? I think so.

[Jacks3]

MJ played in an era against predominantly slow, weak, un-athletic white players in a watered down era.

People give MJ props for lighting up dudes like Craig Ehlo. His career high is 69 in double over time against that Cavs squad being guarded by Craigh Ehlo/Mark Price. :oldlol:

Kobe would have scored 100 against them in regulation.


Kobe had to go against defensive specialists like Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest, Shane Battier, Ruben Patterson etc. They didn't have these defensive specialists when Jordan was playing. Jordan was quoted saying the best defender he had to go against was Joe Dumars. Dumars is 6'3 195 pounds. The guy was thin as a rail and guarded MJ who is 6'6 216 pounds. Dumars was a skinny, slow, undersized PG and that's the best defender MJ had to go against.

Battier has a freaking manual on Kobe's tendencies! He was even quoted saying stayed up all night studying film and books of paper work compiled on Kobe's tendencies, yet when he's assigned to guard him Kobe scored 30 and 40+ on him. Even in that Houston series Kobe had Artest and Battier on him and he still scored on them with ease and couldn't stop him from winning. Not to mention he only went to the FT line 10 times once in the series. The rest of the games were all 7 or under.

Great post.

[oh the horror]

MJ played in an era against predominantly slow, weak, un-athletic white players in a watered down era.

People give MJ props for lighting up dudes like Craig Ehlo. His career high is 69 in double over time against that Cavs squad being guarded by Craigh Ehlo/Mark Price. :oldlol:

Kobe would have scored 100 against them in regulation.


Kobe had to go against defensive specialists like Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest, Shane Battier, Ruben Patterson etc. They didn't have these defensive specialists when Jordan was playing. Jordan was quoted saying the best defender he had to go against was Joe Dumars. Dumars is 6'3 195 pounds. The guy was thin as a rail and guarded MJ who is 6'6 216 pounds. Dumars was a skinny, slow, undersized PG and that's the best defender MJ had to go against.



Bro, you're either 12 years old.....or you're being sarcastic, or you're a fu*king idiot if you honestly tried to come with that straight up bullshit you typed there. :oldlol:

[oh the horror]

I just had to quote this again....



MJ played in an era against predominantly slow, weak, un-athletic white players in a watered down era.

People give MJ props for lighting up dudes like Craig Ehlo. His career high is 69 in double over time against that Cavs squad being guarded by Craigh Ehlo/Mark Price. :oldlol:

Kobe would have scored 100 against them in regulation.


Kobe had to go against defensive specialists like Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest, Shane Battier, Ruben Patterson etc. They didn't have these defensive specialists when Jordan was playing. Jordan was quoted saying the best defender he had to go against was Joe Dumars. Dumars is 6'3 195 pounds. The guy was thin as a rail and guarded MJ who is 6'6 216 pounds. Dumars was a skinny, slow, undersized PG and that's the best defender MJ had to go against.

Battier has a freaking manual on Kobe's tendencies! He was even quoted saying stayed up all night studying film and books of paper work compiled on Kobe's tendencies, yet when he's assigned to guard him Kobe scored 30 and 40+ on him. Even in that Houston series Kobe had Artest and Battier on him and he still scored on them with ease and couldn't stop him from winning. Not to mention he only went to the FT line 10 times once in the series. The rest of the games were all 7 or under.



Did anyone READ THIS? :roll: This HAS TO BE a joke.

[oh the horror]

You can TELL some of these posters HAVE to be teenagers...


"he played in an era of slow unathletic white guys"




Jordan's prime years were like 15 years ago or so....and he was still rocking it in the early 2000s. :oldlol:


F*cking kids act like dude was playing in the 50s, and 60s.

[Ne 1]

Are we really saying Jordan couldnt score like Kobe? REALLY?


Mike had seasons of 37ppg, 35ppg, and various other seasons of over 30ppg, on over 50 percent from the field. Wtf are people even talking about around here?


http://oi52.tinypic.com/2zdnbeo.jpg

http://oi52.tinypic.com/b46dcz.jpg

http://oi55.tinypic.com/5lqbsy.jpg


Blue: Isolation era+Handchecking
Red: Zone era+Handchecking (Best defensive era in NBA history)
Green: Zone Era without handchecking


Conclusion: Clearly stats from the 80s and 90s - both PPG+FG%- are inflated, due to faster run-and-gun pace (think 2005 Suns, 2007 Warriors), inferior defense, and inferior players.

[Jacks3]

http://oi52.tinypic.com/2zdnbeo.jpg

http://oi52.tinypic.com/b46dcz.jpg

http://oi55.tinypic.com/5lqbsy.jpg


Blue: Isolation era+Handchecking
Red: Zone era+Handchecking (Best defensive era in NBA history)
Green: Zone Era without handchecking


Conclusion: Clearly stats from the 80s and 90s - both PPG+FG%- are inflated, due to faster run-and-gun pace (think 2005 Suns, 2007 Warriors), inferior defense, and inferior players.
:applause:

[Hotlantadude81]

No surprise. Jordan was the biggest ballhog in NBA history, dude led the league in jacking up shots a recorded 9 times and averaged 24 fg attempts per game for his career! But that's not all!

He shots the ball 49 times in one game, in 15 years he shot the ball..24,567 times a record for a 15 year career!

He had seasons' of 25 FG attempt's, 28 FG attempts and 24 FG attempts per game.

Doug Collins wanted MJ to pass more and MJ had Doug fired!!!! (this was before Pippen emerged as the facilitator)

Clearly Doug Collins knew what he was talking about since he led teams to so many titles... Oh wait...

[Calabis]

You look at it in a negative way but I look at it positively. Kobe could've had many seasons of 35+ppg like he did during his peak w/o shaq and could've been better than MJ:confusedshrug:

LMAO... negative, Kobe wouldn't have scored 35 multiple seasons??? That's the extreme positive........he did it once and took more shots to do than MJ did in his 35 ppg season......so if you want to say he would score.....of course we all know that, but with a 46% shooting percentage, 30-31 point seasons would be more realistic..imo

[Calabis]

And yet Jordan consistently took more FGA per game over the course of their careers. :roll:
And made them at a higher percentage:roll:

[oh the horror]

So what are graphs, and shit supposed to prove? Again, AGAIN....Reading comprehesion now....If YOU DIDNT WATCH MIKE PLAY, THROUGHOUT MOST OF HIS CAREER, YOU DONT KNOW D*CK.


I watched MOST of Mike's good years, AND ALLLLLL of Kobe's career. And its clear as day to me, and MULTIPLE people my age, that Kobe just isnt as good as Mike. Its just that simple.


The problem with statistics, and graphs, and shit like that, is that there are TOO many factors, to break down, and argue into the ground. If you cant VISUALLY see for yourself, then you have no concept of anything really....other than science, and numbers. The reality of basketball is....one day, someone is going to claim another player is "better than Kobe".....and you know what they're going to do? Come at YOU with graphs, and stats, talking about how "watered down" this current era of ball players were.


Its all bullshit until youve watched the players for yourself. You can measure it properly. Not based on statistical nonsense.

[Jacks3]

And made them at a higher percentage:roll:
And still never came close to 81. :roll:

[Calabis]

Are we really saying Jordan couldnt score like Kobe? REALLY?


Mike had seasons of 37ppg, 35ppg, and various other seasons of over 30ppg, on over 50 percent from the field. Wtf are people even talking about around here?

I don't know, because those numbers don't mean shit....he avg 30 or more 8(9 rounding off), yet Kobe did it twice, so he is a better and more consistent scorer:roll:

[oh the horror]

This is just as simple as laughing it off, and letting someone believe what they want. For a kid to be telling me Kobe is better than Mike, is just laughable.



I dont even know why we try to explain it to them. They obviously didnt watch Jordan much, so why even try? They're basing it off youtube videos, and numbers on paper.



So because Mike's stats are CLEARLY better...the next "argument" is, that Mike's era was "weaker" and stats were "inflated" at the time.....they'll keep coming with newer and newer arguments, but the fact remains...these little fu*kers didnt see most of Jordan's career....so why even try? They have no real leg to stand on imo.

[oh the horror]

I don't know, because those numbers don't mean shit....he avg 30 or more 8(9 rounding off), yet Kobe did it twice, so he is a better and more consistent scorer:roll:


Yeah, but the newest argument now, is that Mike's numbers were "inflated" because of the era he played in.



But MY argument is.....if you DIDNT WATCH MIKE PLAY, THEN YOU JUST DO NOT KNOW. Regardless of whatever you wanna say about era, and who Mike played against, you merely had to watch him play for several seasons, compared to Kobe and his prime years to simply SEE for yourself, that Michael was a superior basketball player.



The proof was in the pudding and clear as day to me.

[tpols]

It's not bs, it's the truth. No matter what their record was, they made the playoffs. The raptors didn't and neither did the lakers.

I bring up everything else because point totals dint tell the whe story.
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the bulls make the playoffs with 30 wins one year? You can't be serious with saying that cavs team was some great team. They were losing more games than they were winning when jordan dropped 69 on them. They were playing like a losing team regardless of whether it was easier to make the playoffs back in the day. You just can't accept that kobe's cieling for scoring is higher than jordan's so you're reaching with the 'opposition' argument. Jordan had two extra periods of OT and was playing in a faster paced league and he couldn't even sniff 81. Case closed.

[Calabis]

And still never came close to 81. :roll:

Because on several of those nights he sat out, he didn't stay in against the leagues worst team and keep jacking for individual glory...which Kobe still does, Gasol called his ass out for chasing a record...."now maybe we can get back to playing team basketball and winning games"

[Jacks3]

the whole argument is that kobe's a better scorer when hot. it happens rarely, but when he's on nobody in history is better. nobody is saying that he's a better player, or a better scorer in terms of efficiency or volume, stop setting straw-man arguments.

[Calabis]

This is just as simple as laughing it off, and letting someone believe what they want. For a kid to be telling me Kobe is better than Mike, is just laughable.



I dont even know why we try to explain it to them. They obviously didnt watch Jordan much, so why even try? They're basing it off youtube videos, and numbers on paper.



So because Mike's stats are CLEARLY better...the next "argument" is, that Mike's era was "weaker" and stats were "inflated" at the time.....they'll keep coming with newer and newer arguments, but the fact remains...these little fu*kers didnt see most of Jordan's career....so why even try? They have no real leg to stand on imo.

your right, good post, its pointless, I agree, I'm out

[tpols]

Yeah, but the newest argument now, is that Mike's numbers were "inflated" because of the era he played in.



But MY argument is.....if you DIDNT WATCH MIKE PLAY, THEN YOU JUST DO NOT KNOW. Regardless of whatever you wanna say about era, and who Mike played against, you merely had to watch him play for several seasons, compared to Kobe and his prime years to simply SEE for yourself, that Michael was a superior basketball player.



The proof was in the pudding and clear as day to me.
Some of these guys around me are ripping on jordan but I'm strictly talking about scoring and their elite scoring games. I admitted jordan>kobe already and know he was a better basketball player.

[Jacks3]

Because on several of those nights he sat out, he didn't stay in against the leagues worst team and keep jacking for individual glory...which Kobe still does, Gasol called his ass out for chasing a record...."now maybe we can get back to playing team basketball and winning games"

first, gasol wasn't calling out kobe, but the entire team. second, kobe has like 5 different games where's he's had 50+ points through three quarters and then sat out the fourth. third, the lakers were down 20 against the raptors. he wasn't "jacking". the lakers needed those points. lol @ acting like jordan didn't play bad teams, or didn't chuck. :roll:

[Svendiggity]

your right, good post, its pointless, I agree, I'm out

A biased poster that litters his comments in insults and curse words made a good post? Yeah, okay.

[Calabis]

the whole argument is that kobe's a better scorer when hot. it happens rarely, but when he's on nobody in history is better. nobody is saying that he's a better player, or a better scorer in terms of efficiency or volume, stop setting straw-man arguments.

If you say so....any past or current great is that way when hot....Jordan decided to sit out when he set a Finals record(at the time) with 6 three pointers in first half, which could have been more, but he sat out the last 6 1/2 minutes....whats so hard to understand that if he stayed in and kept jacking while in that zone, more shots would've been made...also last time I checked that happened when they said he couldn't shoot three's

[bada bing]

what makes MJ so great was not his game but rather his desire to be the best. If MJ was around in this day and age, maybe certain players might have a better game than him. However with the passion and confidence that jordan played with, he would make sure he would improve himself and continue to be a champion. The only player that comes close to the intensity with which jordan played with is probably Kobe. Even then, Jordan's intensity and passion was greater than what we see today with Kobe.

[G-Funk]

IMO opinion Kobe is the better scorer- Jordan is the better All-around player

[oh the horror]

what makes MJ so great was not his game but rather his desire to be the best. If MJ was around in this day and age, maybe certain players might have a better game than him. However with the passion and confidence that jordan played with, he would make sure he would improve himself and continue to be a champion. The only player that comes close to the intensity with which jordan played with is probably Kobe. Even then, Jordan's intensity and passion was greater than what we see today with Kobe.



I'd consider Kobe a MJ "lite". He is probably the closet thing to a Michael Jordan in today's game. His style of play, and his ethic is similar, but the skills and talent isnt the same. Mike was like a combination of strength, and skill, and his IQ was off the charts. Kobe at times, is kind of a bonehead...He does shit on the court that I question at times, and it seems like he is his own worst enemy. Its hard to describe really, when it comes to Kobe Byrant. I feel like he SHOULD be better than he is most of the time.

[Jacks3]

If you say so....any past or current great is that way when hot....

NOT AS HOT AS BRYANT

i really don't get why you can't except that this. kobe has a better three-point shot, and is much more willing to take them, has more range, which is why he can rake up points so quickly when he's in the zone. even more so than jordan. again, even when jordan was playing in the fast-paced era of the 80's, on some shitty teams, he never came near 81 points. he's still a better scorer overall, but not a good as kobe when both are totally in their absolute zone. FACT.

[Hotlantadude81]

Maybe people should look at that Toronto team that gave up 81 points.

[G-Funk]

If you say so....any past or current great is that way when hot....Jordan decided to sit out when he set a Finals record(at the time) with 6 three pointers in first half, which could have been more, but he sat out the last 6 1/2 minutes....whats so hard to understand that if he stayed in and kept jacking while in that zone, more shots would've been made...also last time I checked that happened when they said he couldn't shoot three's


Kobe didn't play the 4th Quarter when he outscored the Mavs 62-61. Had Phil played him the whole quarter he could have easily gotten 90pts and a shot at outscoring a team

[catch24]

Maybe people should look at that Toronto team that gave up 81 points.

Yeah, I personally prefer his 62 in 3 quarters vs Dallas.

[oh the horror]

Kobe didn't play the 4th Quarter when he outscored the Mavs 62-61. Had Phil played him the whole quarter he could have easily gotten 90pts and a shot at outscoring a team




Him going for "90 points" is flat out pure speculation. For all you know, Kobe could have gone cold in the 4th, or just merely scored 10 more points, and been done. We cant sit here, and speculate any of that.

[oh the horror]

Maybe people should look at that Toronto team that gave up 81 points.



I generally dont like to downplay Kobe's 81, because it WAS incredible, but one HAS TO consider this is also a similar Toronto team, that let an old ass Shaq drop 40 on them.

So, if we (some people here) want to consider "era" and people they were playing against, then why dont they consider THAT as well?

[tpols]

I generally dont like to downplay Kobe's 81, because it WAS incredible, but one HAS TO consider this is also a similar Toronto team, that let an old ass Shaq drop 40 on them.

So, if we (some people here) want to consider "era" and people they were playing against, then why dont they consider THAT as well?
If you want to make excuses, jordan scored 69 against a team with a losing record and needed two OTs to do so.

[Da_Realist]

NOT AS HOT AS BRYANT

i really don't get why you can't except that this. kobe has a better three-point shot, and is much more willing to take them, has more range, which is why he can rake up points so quickly when he's in the zone. even more so than jordan. again, even when jordan was playing in the fast-paced era of the 80's, on some shitty teams, he never came near 81 points. he's still a better scorer overall, but not a good as kobe when both are totally in their absolute zone. FACT.

Yet the same guy can't beat 50 in the playoffs in 198 games and counting...

[Jacks3]

Yet the same guy can't beat 50 in the playoffs in 198 playoff games and counting...
:facepalm

he had 50 against the Suns a couple of yrs ago. he's had more 30+ and 40+ games in the playoffs than anybody in the league today. scoring in the playoffs isn't a problem for kobe. plus, the sample size is much smaller. again, nobody is saying that kobe is the better scorer in terms of consitency, but he's easily better when hot. only deluded jordan stans like yourself would deny this.

[Da_Realist]

''Kobe is the best all around player that I have ever coached'' - Phil Jackson during the 2001 playoffs

Kobe Bryant 16 triple doubles (0 in playoffs)

Michael Jordan 28 triple doubles (2 more in playoffs) and universally regarded as a better defender than Kobe.

Scottie Pippen 15 triple doubles (3 more in playoffs) and also universally regarded as a better defender than Kobe.

Interesting...but hey, Phil's the coach.

[Jacks3]

Kobe Bryant 16 triple doubles (0 in playoffs)

Michael Jordan 28 triple doubles (2 in playoffs) and universally regarded as a better defender than Kobe.

Scottie Pippen 15 triple doubles (3 in playoffs) and also universally regarded as a better defender than Kobe.

Interesting...but hey, Phil's the coach.

clown.

:rolleyes:

[KingMichael23]

Read this yesterday. The article is terrible. How did this guy get hired. Oh wait...it's ESPN.

[Da_Realist]

:facepalm

he had 50 against the Suns a couple of yrs ago. he's had more 30+ and 40+ games in the playoffs than anybody in the league today. scoring in the playoffs isn't a problem for kobe. plus, the sample size is much smaller. again, nobody is saying that kobe is the better scorer in terms of consitency, but he's easily better when hot. only deluded jordan stans like yourself would deny this.

We're not talking about 30+, 40+ games. Jordan could do those regularly. We are talking about the zone you say Jordan could never reach. 70+, 80+ games. And you're right. Jordan never reached that zone. So you argue that Kobe's scoring ceiling is higher. I'M saying Kobe never topped 50 in the playoffs. So Kobe somehow loses the ability to reach that ceiling in the playoffs. I know Kobe could score 40+. Hell, I know Kobe could score 50+ in the playoffs if he wanted to. Maybe 60 if he made it his goal.

But I'm also saying Jordan could have done more in the regular season by the same reasoning.

[Calabis]

Kobe didn't play the 4th Quarter when he outscored the Mavs 62-61. Had Phil played him the whole quarter he could have easily gotten 90pts and a shot at outscoring a team

And again he shot 25 free throws, more than Jordan 63 point effort in a full game

[Glide2keva]

We're not talking about 30+, 40+ games. Jordan could do those regularly. We are talking about the zone you say Jordan could never reach. 70+, 80+ games. And you're right. Jordan never reached that zone. So you argue that Kobe's scoring ceiling is higher. I'M saying Kobe never topped 50 in the playoffs. So Kobe somehow loses the ability to reach that ceiling in the playoffs. I know Kobe could score 40+. Hell, I know Kobe could score 50+ in the playoffs if he wanted to. Maybe 60 if he made it his goal.

But I'm also saying Jordan could have done more in the regular season by the same reasoning.
No, that logic only counts when it favors Kobe.

[Calabis]

http://oi52.tinypic.com/2zdnbeo.jpg

http://oi52.tinypic.com/b46dcz.jpg

http://oi55.tinypic.com/5lqbsy.jpg


Blue: Isolation era+Handchecking
Red: Zone era+Handchecking (Best defensive era in NBA history)
Green: Zone Era without handchecking


Conclusion: Clearly stats from the 80s and 90s - both PPG+FG%- are inflated, due to faster run-and-gun pace (think 2005 Suns, 2007 Warriors), inferior defense, and inferior players.

LMAO... how about, players ran their offense much more efficiently and shot higher percentage shots....again Bird was a premier 3 pt shooter and he only shot 270+ once...Kobe no where near the 3 point shooter Bird was and has 300+ more attempts 7 times...also why do you morons keep ignoring the AND 1/One on One crap, most players play today, they dribble the entire shot clock out, before jacking ill advised shots, maybe that has something to do with it. Or how about the fact that Offensive Rebounds have declined???

In '84-85, offenses grabbed the board on 32.9 percent of missed shots, but by '03-04 that had declined to 28.7 percent. That difference has cost offenses 2.0 points per game, and it probably results from 3-point shooters being spaced too far away from the basket to have a prayer of getting an offensive board.


NBA Offense: Then and Now 1984-85 2003-04 Change

Points per game 110.8 to 93.4= -17.4
Possessions/game 104.8 to 92.0= -12.8
Points/possession 1.05 to 1.01= -.04
Field-goal pct. 49.1 to 43.9= -5.2
Free-throw pct. 76.4 to 75.2= -1.2
3-point pct. 28.1 to 34.7= +6.6
Off. Rebound pct. 32.9 to 28.7= -4.2
FTA/FGA .330 to .303= -.207
Turnovers/possession .169 to .154= -.015

Since '84-85, field-goal percentages have sunk roughly in proportion to Billy Squier's albums sales, from 49.1 percent to 43.9 percent last season. Sharp minds in the audience will quickly note that the 3-pointer is a much more prevalent part of modern offenses (teams try more than five times as many as they did two decades ago), so we should expect field-goal percentages to be lower in return for the greater payoff. Yet even allowing for the rise of the 3-pointer, shooting is still in the dumpster. Teams averaged 0.99 points for each field-goal attempt in 1984-85, but just 0.94 last season. That five-hundreths of a percentage point difference is enough to subtract 2.9 points a game from offenses.

That goes to underscore that the 3-pointer has, on balance, not had much of an effect. On the one hand, players shoot the long bomb much more accurately than twenty years ago -- improving from 28.1 percent to 34.7 percent -- which has added 1.9 points per game to scoring.

But there's a hidden cost to all of those 3s. Because they're bombing away instead of going to the rim, teams are getting to the line much less often. Teams took 0.33 free-throws per field-goal attempt back then, but only 0.30 last season, a change that cost teams about 1.7 points a game -- giving back nearly all of the difference from the increase in 3-point accuracy.

[Calabis]

IMO opinion Kobe is the better scorer- Jordan is the better All-around player

Yet nothing in Kobe's scoring avg's prove this theory

[Calabis]

If you want to make excuses, jordan scored 69 against a team with a losing record and needed two OTs to do so.

And he took only 37 shots last time I chk'd

[Da_Realist]

No, that logic only counts when it favors Kobe.

Seems that way. "He didn't, therefore he couldn't have" only works against Jordan. :facepalm Jordan never scored 81 but it wasn't because he couldn't. It was because to score that many points, you have to let other stuff slide. You're not distributing, you're not rebounding, you're not playing defense. You're ONLY concerned with scoring. Jordan scored a lot but wasn't willing to give up everything in a mercenary attempt to score as many points as possible.

[Glide2keva]

Seems that way. "He didn't, therefore he couldn't have" only works against Jordan. :facepalm Jordan never scored 81 but it wasn't because he couldn't. It was because to score that many points, you have to let other stuff slide. You're not distributing, you're not rebounding, you're not playing defense. You're ONLY concerned with scoring. Jordan scored a lot but wasn't willing to give up everything in a mercenary attempt to score as many points as possible.
We have a winner!!!

[andgar923]

And he took only 37 shots last time I chk'd

Something that keeps eluding them and something they can't comprehend.

I mean... if Kobe managed to shoot 46 times in only 41 minutes, doesn't a red light go on at some point in which some sort of logic starts to kick in?

I agree that Kobe was hot, and other players in the history of the game (including Kobe himself) have been as hot if not hotter. But they didn't manage to shoot that many shots in that time span.

Doesn't that say anything about the defense?

Kobe also managed to take almost the same amount of fts in less time (Mj shot 23 in 50 minutes of play and Kobe shot 20 in 41.56 minutes of play) that's near 8 minutes.

I'm not a mathematician so can somebody calculate what the shot and ft attempts per minute are?

Again.... this represents the type of defense that Kobe was going up against.

And let us not forget that Melo the very next night, against the same team was on pace to score over 100 pts as well.

[Calabis]

Something that keeps eluding them and something they can't comprehend.

I mean... if Kobe managed to shoot 46 times in only 41 minutes, doesn't a red light go on at some point in which some sort of logic starts to kick in?

I agree that Kobe was hot, and other players in the history of the game (including Kobe himself) have been as hot if not hotter. But they didn't manage to shoot that many shots in that time span.

Doesn't that say anything about the defense?

Kobe also managed to take almost the same amount of fts in less time (Mj shot 23 in 50 minutes of play and Kobe shot 20 in 41.56 minutes of play) that's near 8 minutes.

I'm not a mathematician so can somebody calculate what the shot and ft attempts per minute are?

Again.... this represents the type of defense that Kobe was going up against.

And let us not forget that Melo the very next night, against the same team was on pace to score over 100 pts as well.

:applause:

Since they love charts, here is one for you 14 of top 27

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Basketball_Association_top_indivi dual_game_scores

[Calabis]

Seems that way. "He didn't, therefore he couldn't have" only works against Jordan. :facepalm Jordan never scored 81 but it wasn't because he couldn't. It was because to score that many points, you have to let other stuff slide. You're not distributing, you're not rebounding, you're not playing defense. You're ONLY concerned with scoring. Jordan scored a lot but wasn't willing to give up everything in a mercenary attempt to score as many points as possible.

:bowdown:

[tpols]

Are jordan fans all seriously all sucking each other's ***** after losing the initial debate?:oldlol: Haha typical response:roll: :bowdown:

[Kujo]

Kobe had no problems with MJ's comments. Much ado about nothing.

[Soundwave]

Kobe had no problems with MJ's comments. Much ado about nothing.

I think deep down it probably burns him bad, but if I'm Phil Jackson, I'm loving this, lol. :lol

It's obvious Kobe idolizes/worships Jordan to an extent that is a borderline obsession.

[Calabis]

Are jordan fans all seriously all sucking each other's ***** after losing the initial debate?:oldlol: Haha typical response:roll: :bowdown:

Losing what, you have been shut down so many times its pointless to argue with you...you bring nothing factual, just hypothetical garbage like most Kobestans bring to the table

Just posted a chart, go ahead and disprove that with more hypothetical bullshit

[DKLaker]

Seems that way. "He didn't, therefore he couldn't have" only works against Jordan. :facepalm Jordan never scored 81 but it wasn't because he couldn't. It was because to score that many points, you have to let other stuff slide. You're not distributing, you're not rebounding, you're not playing defense. You're ONLY concerned with scoring. Jordan scored a lot but wasn't willing to give up everything in a mercenary attempt to score as many points as possible.

Jordan didn't have the range nor the shot variety to score 81.....period!!!!
What's most impressive about Kobe's 81 is that he didit to lead the Lakers back from a 19 point deficit....if he doesn't go off they lose that game.
Toronto was trying to win, this was not a case of them rolling over.
Kobe before that had 62 in 3 quarters outscoring the Mavs all by himself.
Maybe he gets 90-100 if he played the 4th.
MJ is still the GOAT but he's acting like an ASS.....lol.

[Da_Realist]

Jordan didn't have the range nor the shot variety to score 81.....period!!!!
What's most impressive about Kobe's 81 is that he didit to lead the Lakers back from a 19 point deficit....if he doesn't go off they lose that game.
Toronto was trying to win, this was not a case of them rolling over.
Kobe before that had 62 in 3 quarters outscoring the Mavs all by himself.
Maybe he gets 90-100 if he played the 4th.
MJ is still the GOAT but he's acting like an ASS.....lol.

Kobe --> GOAT explosive regular season scorer :bowdown: :bowdown:

[tpols]

Kobe --> GOAT explosive regular season scorer :bowdown: :bowdown:
lol you do realize winning games is not gonna happen if a guy if putting up 40+ shots a game right? You can go off in the regular season but in the playoffs phil jackson would've lopped his balls off if he threw the team's chemistry off by doing that. His 81 and other games are excuses because he had terrible teams that weren't going very far in the playoffs regardless.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Him going for "90 points" is flat out pure speculation. For all you know, Kobe could have gone cold in the 4th, or just merely scored 10 more points, and been done. We cant sit here, and speculate any of that.
Yeah but thats what IMO makes the mystique of that game even greater. He was pissed off in that 3rd quarter, thats why he dropped 30. He was playing even more aggressive in that quarter and was starting to hit long distance shots, where as earlier in the game he kept taking it to the basket and hitting mid range shots.

In the 62 point game, he was just as hot as he was in the 81 point game heading into the 4th, and at the end of the 3rd in the 62 point games he had ten more points then he had finishing up the third quarter in the 81 point game.

Completely outscored the 2nd best team in the league BY HIMSELF through 3 quarters. The Mavs also that year were a good team defensively.

That game was frightening. And he's had a few of those through out his career where he had some asinine point total through 3 quarters and didn't even play a minute of the 4th.

56 in 3 v.s. Grizzlies in 2002 (on Battier)
52 in 3 v.s. Jazz in 2007 (on AK47)

Both ELITE man defenders.

He has a few more but I'm having trouble thinking of them. Imagine if there was no Phil Jackson pulling the reigns back on him in those games.

Imagine a young Kobe Bryant playing for the team that drafted him (Hornets) ... having no offensive options, a coach letting this kid run wild, and of course Kobe always wanting to prove himself and when he was younger thirsty for the attention. We could've seen some ridiculous scoring games.