Phil Jackson to make Gasol the first option early in the season?

[ShaqAttack3234]

LOS ANGELES - The Lakers are Kobe Bryant's team, and that's not changing any time soon.

Well, not in the long term.

In the short term, with Bryant still working himself back into game shape after arthroscopic knee surgery, it's at least conceivable that Pau Gasol could be the first option for the offense when the season opens Oct. 26.

"Pau's going to have to take that role, maybe, early in the season," Coach Phil Jackson said. "It takes a lot of focus and energy. We're just preparing for the worst-case scenario, and we're hoping he's ready to step into that space if it's necessary.

"I don't think it's natural, but he's been at that level."

http://www.pe.com/sports/basketball/lakers/stories/PE_Sports_Local_D_lakers_notes_17.30b1fe8.html

[Sakkreth]

Good move by Phil.

[TheGreatDeraj]

Sounds good. I wonder if they will be playing more of the triangle with Gasol as the first option. Jackson seems to be working Artest in the post more as well. Hopefully this will boost Gasol's confidence and he will have a career year. Then when Kobe gets healthy, look out NBA :D

[Lakerlove420]

http://www.jockism.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Primal-Pau-Gasol-.jpg

[Willkill24]

20+ shots for Pau and 13+ for Kobe ?

[chazzy]

It would be stupid for Kobe to take 20+ shots in his current state, I'd expect the offense to run through Pau more initially if Kobe isn't near 100% early on. Especially with Bynum out as well, the touches will be there. That doesn't necessarily translate to significantly more shot attempts, but he'll get the initial pass in the offense more often.

[Jacks3]

Based on the last two preseason games, I'd say Kobe was clearly the first option and I doubt that changes by opening night. He's still gonna score his 25-27 points a game, and Pau will never come close to that.

[oh the horror]

They'd be smart to make this move right now. Kobe can try to get his, but right now, with the state he is in, if the offense doesnt go through Pau, then they'll be hurting in most games. Kobe is NOT 100% and it shows.

[KenneBell]

Based on the last two preseason games, I'd say Kobe was clearly the first option and I doubt that changes by opening night. He's still gonna score his 25-27 points a game, and Pau will never come close to that.
If Phil decides to limit Kobe to 25-30 minutes it very well could happen.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Based on the last two preseason games, I'd say Kobe was clearly the first option and I doubt that changes by opening night. He's still gonna score his 25-27 points a game, and Pau will never come close to that.

I'm not sure he'll start off the season dropping 25-27 every game, I think he'll end up averaging around that mark by the end of the year and back in the 28-30 range come playoff time, though.

Gasol clearly can't score that much, but he can produce more than he usually has to if it's needed.

Gasol w/o Bynum last year- 22.1 ppg, 13.1 rpg, 3.7 apg, 2.4 bpg, 55.9 FG% (15 games)

Gasol w/o Kobe last year- 21.4 ppg, 12.8 rpg, 4 apg, 2.8 bpg, 53.6 FG% (6-3 record)

Individually, Gasol plays better without Bynum, and even until he's 100%, Kobe will still be the guy who defenses worry about the most which will help Gasol. I wouldn't be surprised to see Gasol averaging 22-23 ppg early.

[Jacks3]

If Phil decides to limit Kobe to 25-30 minutes it very well could happen.

Phil has already said that he plans to play Kobe his regular minutes--37-38 MPG.

[MTing]

Sweet, hes on my fantasy team this year.

[Fatal9]

Kobe did a pretty good job of this at the start of the '07 season. He was hurting the team at one point playing hurt last year though. Why can't he just sit till he's fully healthy? Does he need to be playing to strengthen the knee or something?

[chazzy]

Kobe did a pretty good job of this at the start of the '07 season. He was hurting the team at one point playing hurt last year though. Why can't he just sit till he's fully healthy? Does he need to be playing to strengthen the knee or something?

Yeah. He rested it all summer after getting it cleaned out, now he's just strengthening it by gradually increasing his play. He's looked better in every game.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Kobe did a pretty good job of this at the start of the '07 season. He was hurting the team at one point playing hurt last year though. Why can't he just sit till he's fully healthy? Does he need to be playing to strengthen the knee or something?

He did an unbelievable job of this in 2006-2007, how he led that team to a 26-13 start, particularly with Odom going down in the middle of that stretch is beyond me.

[KenneBell]

Does he need to be playing to strengthen the knee or something?
That and he's not in basketball shape yet. The knee is fine. He just needs to play.

[elementally morale]

It sounds good in theory but hard for me to believe. Not because of Phil or Gasol's ability but because of Kobe Bryant. He may defer for 2-3 games bt that's it unless he breaks his leg or something. Knowing the way he is, he wants to prove the doubters wrong and actually go for the MVP as this season he is one of the favorites after LeBron's antics and him and Wade beibg on the same team. (MVP is a media driven award, lest we forget.)

Anyway, I doubt Gasol will have more shots taken than Kobe after the first 7 games.

[LA_Showtime]

This is the obvious solution. Since Kobe isn't 100% healthy, give Gasol the green light to take more shots and initiate the offense. It probably won't happen, though. I wouldn't be surprised to see Kobe shooting around 20 per game, even if he isn't healthy.

[bdreason]

Gasol should ALWAYS be the first option to start games. The fact that it is even questioned is laughable.

[bdreason]

This is the obvious solution. Since Kobe isn't 100% healthy.


Even a 100% Kobe should not be the first option to start the game.



You establish the post, and then work from there.

[JM720]

This was said after the Denver game, but as you saw in the last game against Utah nothing is going to change or needs to change. He seems to be looking better little by little.


Gasol should ALWAYS be the first option to start games. The fact that it is even questioned is laughable.

3 Finals in a row, 2 Championships. Nothing is going to change, cause what is done now is working. Till it stops working nothing is going to change or should change.

[LJJ]

Gasol should ALWAYS be the first option to start games. The fact that it is even questioned is laughable.

Exactly. Fundamental basketball.

[elementally morale]

Even a 100% Kobe should not be the first option to start the game.

You establish the post, and then work from there.

It doesn't mean 1st option, it means the ball goes through him on every possession or him getting a touch every possession. Which sound reasonable.

BTW, Phil Jackson has been a pretty succesful coach with his aproach to the game, so I'm not sure guys like us on a message board know better. We may, it's just not very likely.

[bdreason]

It doesn't mean 1st option, it means the ball goes through him on every possession or him getting a touch every possession. Which sound reasonable.

BTW, Phil Jackson has been a pretty succesful coach with his aproach to the game, so I'm not sure guys like us on a message board know better. We may, it's just not very likely.


No doubt Phil knows more than us. I also wouldn't doubt he cries a little inside everytime Kobe comes down and takes a low % jumper without Pau even getting a touch.

I personally think the Lakers should run WAY MORE pick and roll / pick and pop with Kobe and Pau. The only time they ever go to it is late in games, and it almost always ends with a positive result.

[elementally morale]

No doubt Phil knows more than us. I also wouldn't doubt he cries a little inside everytime Kobe comes down and takes a low % jumper without Pau even getting a touch.

I personally think the Lakers should run WAY MORE pick and roll / pick and pop with Kobe and Pau. The only time they ever go to it is late in games, and it almost always ends with a positive result.

I like Pau taking shots because they are better shots than the ones Kobe takes. Higher percentage shots with more chance of going in. However, Gasol has this opportunity only as long as he is not the 1st option and defenses do not focus on him more than they do on Kobe. Being the 1st option means the you are the main focus of defense. Whenever that happens to Gasol, his shots won't be any easier than Kobe's are right now.

Pass Gasol the ball on every possession and make him decide. He is a good decision makes and a good passer.

[magnax1]

Makes perfect sense. In fact, I'd make Kobe the third option behind Bynum until the last month or so just to keep his legs intact. Might sound a bit crazy, but Kobe is old and he can't play at 100% for a whole season, or even 80% a whole season like he did these past two years.
However, that would make the team a lot worse. Gasol really isn't first option material.

[All Net]

Makes perfect sense. In fact, I'd make Kobe the third option behind Bynum until the last month or so just to keep his legs intact. Might sound a bit crazy, but Kobe is old and he can't play at 100% for a whole season, or even 80% a whole season like he did these past two years.
However, that would make the team a lot worse. Gasol really isn't first option material.
What a stupid statement

Kobe is 32 hardly past it. Guy averaged 29, 7 and 6 for godsake last year.

The crap you talk about the Lakers in unreal. Even suggesting this is their last year competing for a championship. What a fool

[Calabis]

I say Kobe coasts through much of the season, putting up 22-24ppg ,then turns it on the last 15-20 games of the regular seasons and playoffs....this will make the Lakers a much more dangerous team. They are going to have to learn to win, without relying on Kobe. When he decides to turn it on(no need to hurt that knee) watch out, a healthy Kobe and confident teammates, rack up another chip imo.

[elementally morale]

I say Kobe coasts through much of the season, putting up 22-24ppg ,then turns it on the last 15-20 games of the regular seasons and playoffs....this will make the Lakers a much more dangerous team.

It is about to happen 2 or 3 years from now. Not this year for sure.

[Calabis]

It is about to happen 2 or 3 years from now. Not this year for sure.

What him coasting??? I think he does it this year, that knee is not ready for 82 game season and all the pounding....Kobe will still go all out, but he will curtail his offensive output and conserve some of that wear and tear for when it matters most...I don't see how 22-24 ppg is a bad thing, probably sacrifices 2 to 3 shots a game for Gasol

[All Net]

What him coasting??? I think he does it this year, that knee is not ready for 82 game season and all the pounding....Kobe will still go all out, but he will curtail his offensive output and conserve some of that wear and tear for when it matters most...I don't see how 22-24 ppg is a bad thing, probably sacrifices 2 to 3 shots a game for Gasol

His knee isn't the issue right now it's lack of game shape. I think Kobe will still put up 25-27 a game but Lakers being deeper this year will help alot and he won't need to hit game winners for the team to win.

[sagr32]

About Time Phil Starts going to Pau more. Like Many Analysts and Posters have said LA doesn't use him enough. He is an extremely efficient player and can have the offense ran through him because he is such a good passer but he still only takes about 13 shots a game.

[magnax1]

What a stupid statement

Kobe is 32 hardly past it. Guy averaged 29, 7 and 6 for godsake last year.

The crap you talk about the Lakers in unreal. Even suggesting this is their last year competing for a championship. What a fool
We'll see. I see no reason why LA will contend for more then another year or two, unless you count teams like Dallas as real contenders.

[the GIBBET]

Considering Pau plays a far more important role than Kobe (sorry to break it to morons who think going 1 on 5 and taking turnaround fadeaways is the goal of basketball) its a pretty obvious move to make.

[Jacks3]

People who look at Pau's FG% and then say he should get more shots don't understand basketball. There is a inverse relationship between usage and efficiency. This has been statistically proven by Dean Oliver. Now, the truly great offensive players in history have no problem maintain efficiency while increasing usage, but Pau can't. He's not in that class. So, STFU about him getting more shots. There's a reason he only got 12-13 FGA per game in Memphis as the #1 option.

:facepalm

[Droid101]

People who look at Pau's FG% and then say he should get more shots don't understand basketball. There is a inverse relationship between usage and efficiency. This has been statistically proven by Dean Oliver. Now, the truly great offensive players in history have no problem maintain efficiency while increasing usage, but Pau can't. He's not in that class. So, STFU about him getting more shots. There's a reason he only got 12-13 FGA per game in Memphis as the #1 option.

:facepalm
Because Hubie Brown employed a balanced attack option and a 10-man, even-minutes rotation.

:facepalm :facepalm

Another Kobe homer with an agenda.

[andredagiant]

this ain't ever going to happen, Kobe is gonig to be Kobe, the only way that Phil can realy implement this is to limit Kobe's minuts, but as some posters have mentioned already Phil plans to play Kobe his usual minutes, Phil can try to implement this, but it will only result in failure, because Kobe's not one to defer to others,as shown by the rift between him and Shaq during their threepeat years, especially now he's a veteran and wants to be THE man in order to surpass MJ, it ain't gonna happen. I, personally feel like this is a good option because Gasol has shown to be the more stable and efficient scorer on the team, albeit Kobe takes alot more shots than Gasol, but that's because Kobe's "scorer mentality" won't allow him to defer to someone else anymore.

[Jacks3]

Because Hubie Brown employed a balanced attack option and a 10-man, even-minutes rotation.

:facepalm :facepalm

Another Kobe homer with an agenda.

lol @ that garbage excuse. The Grizz were mediocre offensively. If Gasol was capable of handling it he would have gotten more than 12-13 shots a game.

[Jacks3]

Yes, let's change up what's lead to the Lakers to three straight Finals and two straight championships. :rolleyes:

[ILLsmak]

Yes, let's change up what's lead to the Lakers to three straight Finals and two straight championships. :rolleyes:

Pau Gasol?

lol, no, but you can't deny that Pau is a huge factor in their run as the greatest team the past few years. I think he deserves more touches, he doesn't need shots he can pass, too.

-Smak

[KenneBell]

Pau Gasol?

lol, no, but you can't deny that Pau is a huge factor in their run as the greatest team the past few years. I think he deserves more touches, he doesn't need shots he can pass, too.

-Smak
He is a huge part of the Lakers' sucess. But is he #1 option material? No. That's why Phil said it wasn't really natural for him.

He's not the type of player you can lean on and say "take 17-20 shots and carry the offense" for a season.

[ILLsmak]

He is a huge part of the Lakers' sucess. But is he #1 option material? No. That's why Phil said it wasn't really natural for him.

He's not the type of player you can lean on and say "take 17-20 shots and carry the offense" for a season.

Sure he could. The Lakers have a lot of weapons, nobody needs to be taking 20 shots a game. 17 shots isn't a lot. Just getting him a touch every play is number 1 option, to me, he could pass it every time and still only take 12 shots. Nobody wants him to force it...

It's just playing a more post offense and dumping it into Gasol and letting him work. It'd make life easier for everyone...

-Smak

[All Net]

Gasol is a top 7-player I think it's foolish to think he shouldn't get more shots.

[gts]

Lakers have plenty of weapons, Gasol can carry the load easily and he won't be doing it himself there's other talent to back him up and it's not like kobe won't be on the floor at all...

[G-train]

I expect Gasol and Odom to be more prominent early this season - as Bynum is out too.

[Replay32]

It sounds good in theory but hard for me to believe. Not because of Phil or Gasol's ability but because of Kobe Bryant. He may defer for 2-3 games bt that's it unless he breaks his leg or something. Knowing the way he is, he wants to prove the doubters wrong and actually go for the MVP as this season he is one of the favorites after LeBron's antics and him and Wade beibg on the same team. (MVP is a media driven award, lest we forget.)

Anyway, I doubt Gasol will have more shots taken than Kobe after the first 7 games.

I agree with this. I hope kobe chills and works his way back slowly. But I have a feeling that won't be the case after a couple of games. We'll see.

[kizut1659]

Gasol should have at least 16-17 shots a game but never will. . . the problem is not just Kobe but players such as Artest (9.6 shots) and Shanon Brown (7.2 shots and 12.5 shots per 36 minutes - same as Gasol) So in a way, Gasol with his 13 shots a game was barely even a true second option, since the gap between Kobe and himself was much larger than between himself and other players (and again, per 36 minutes - Gasol is pretty much on par with all other Lakers.) Even Gasol's 13 shots a game are inflated since when Bunym was playing at full strength he averaged less than 12. Basically, the Lakers just do not go inside enough, which is ironic since Jackson was such a fan of runnig the triangle from the post. I always got the impression that Phil Jackson always had a bit of a condenscending atitude towards Gasol, sometimes zingining him in the media (i.e recently "he is still on vacation") and even here with "its not natural for him" comment.

So yeah, i believe there is nothing preventing Gasol from averaging about 24 ppg but i just don't see it happening .,

[ZenMaster]

Gasol should have at least 16-17 shots a game but never will. . . the problem is not just Kobe but players such as Artest (9.6 shots) and Shanon Brown (7.2 shots and 12.5 shots per 36 minutes - same as Gasol) So in a way, Gasol with his 13 shots a game was barely even a true second option, since the gap between Kobe and himself was much larger than between himself and other players (and again, per 36 minutes - Gasol is pretty much on par with all other Lakers.) Even Gasol's 13 shots a game are inflated since when Bunym was playing at full strength he averaged less than 12. Basically, the Lakers just do not go inside enough, which is ironic since Jackson was such a fan of runnig the triangle from the post. I always got the impression that Phil Jackson always had a bit of a condenscending atitude towards Gasol, sometimes zingining him in the media (i.e recently "he is still on vacation") and even here with "its not natural for him" comment.

So yeah, i believe there is nothing preventing Gasol from averaging about 24 ppg but i just don't see it happening .,

I believe that the overall idea of letting all players get shot benefits the team in the long run. It's definitely a part of Jacksons philosophy with his teams.

I think Pau gets the ball quite a bit, but he's the best big man in the game in terms of knowing when to pass it on. He handles the game great from the high post.
You also have to have guys like Drew getting the ball on the low block because he's pretty efficient himself.
It's the beauty if this team, people accepting the roles they need to fill in order for the team to be successful.

Having the entire team active on offense keeps them active on defense as well. Players play harder on D when they get excited of being involved in the offense.

[ShaqAttack3234]

lol @ that garbage excuse. The Grizz were mediocre offensively. If Gasol was capable of handling it he would have gotten more than 12-13 shots a game.

Gasol took 14.5 shots per game in 2006 and 14.9 in 2007, and I think he's become a better player since then. I think Kobe has a better mindset for a first option, but Gasol carrying more of a load until Kobe is back to being his normal self is a good idea.

What should really happen is take a few those quick or contested shots than Fisher takes and give them to Gasol instead. If I was a Laker fan, I wouldn't mind Kobe taking a ton of shots(except last January), but some of the bad shots Fisher takes would piss me off.

[elementally morale]

If I was a Laker fan, I wouldn't mind Kobe taking a ton of shots(except last January), but some of the bad shots Fisher takes would piss me off.

Fisher shouldn't be allowed to attempt layups, period. Never ever. In general, he the only shots e should take are 3 pointers in the last 2 minutes of a close game and that's it. The older he gets the more robberthorry-type he becomes.

[chazzy]

What should really happen is take a few those quick or contested shots than Fisher takes and give them to Gasol instead. If I was a Laker fan, I wouldn't mind Kobe taking a ton of shots(except last January), but some of the bad shots Fisher takes would piss me off.

He's still doing it as much as ever in the preseason.. blows my mind how often he pulls up, or drive into traffic and get blocked.

[G-train]

There is no doubt in my mind that Fisher will take his usual 3 or 4 pull up J's in the first quarter.

[ZenMaster]

Gasol took 14.5 shots per game in 2006 and 14.9 in 2007, and I think he's become a better player since then. I think Kobe has a better mindset for a first option, but Gasol carrying more of a load until Kobe is back to being his normal self is a good idea.

What should really happen is take a few those quick or contested shots than Fisher takes and give them to Gasol instead. If I was a Laker fan, I wouldn't mind Kobe taking a ton of shots(except last January), but some of the bad shots Fisher takes would piss me off.

I think Fisher does that for two things:

1) Find a rhythm.

2) To show the other team that he WILL fire if you leave him open, and he's known to hit the open shots. When doing this he gives his defender a reminder early that he will be shooting shots, and then they will play him tighter in off ball situations making it easier for his teammates to penetrate the offense(which isn't a strength of Fisher). So even if he's missing he's helping his team for a better situation in the next part of the game, and if he makes them he does it even more. If the defense starts to play off he'll more than likely just begin to hit his open shots which is what he does.


That's what I can think of. I have to believe there's a thought process behind it, because Fisher is one of the smarter players in the game and he knows a good shot from a bad shot.

[JBull]

Not a bad idea by Phil, but Gasol ain't a good first option so expect some L's Lakah fans.

[the GIBBET]

Not a bad idea by Phil, but Gasol ain't a good first option so expect some L's Lakah fans.


the lakers were like 5-1 without kobe last year.

they are also statistically much better when kobe shoots LESS shots.

so whats this about first options?

[kizut1659]

I believe that the overall idea of letting all players get shot benefits the team in the long run. It's definitely a part of Jacksons philosophy with his teams.

I think Pau gets the ball quite a bit, but he's the best big man in the game in terms of knowing when to pass it on. He handles the game great from the high post.
You also have to have guys like Drew getting the ball on the low block because he's pretty efficient himself.
It's the beauty if this team, people accepting the roles they need to fill in order for the team to be successful.

Having the entire team active on offense keeps them active on defense as well. Players play harder on D when they get excited of being involved in the offense.

He does not get the ball quite a bit - thats why he complained about it several times last season and you have games where he only attemts 8 or 9 FGAs. There are no justifications for players such as Ron Artest or Shannon Brown to shoot so much given their low FG% - thats NOT accepting their limitations. I am not saying Gasol should average 20 shots but why can't he get the same number of shots as say Pippen (about 15.8 to 16.7 shots from 1996 throgh 1998)?

[All Net]

Not a bad idea by Phil, but Gasol ain't a good first option so expect some L's Lakah fans.

What idiot told you that?

[Jacks3]

Gasol took 14.5 shots per game in 2006 and 14.9 in 2007, and I think he's become a better player since then. I think Kobe has a better mindset for a first option, but Gasol carrying more of a load until Kobe is back to being his normal self is a good idea.

What should really happen is take a few those quick or contested shots than Fisher takes and give them to Gasol instead. If I was a Laker fan, I wouldn't mind Kobe taking a ton of shots(except last January), but some of the bad shots Fisher takes would piss me off.

Meh. He only played 59 games in 07 and the 14.5 shots he got in 06 isn't much more than the 13 he's been getting the last three years. Plus, he has to share shots with a very deep Laker team--Odom/Artest/Brown/Blake/Barnes etc--not just Bryant. As for him being a better, that true, but the improvement he's shown has come in rebounding and defense. His offensive game is very much the same. Also, I think you're underestimating Kobe's health. I expect him to be close to 100% by opening day. Again, in the last two preseason he's looked very good, and has shown very quick improvement through the last couple of weeks. I'm pretty sure he's going to start the season taking his usual 18-20 shots in any case.

[Jacks3]

the lakers were like 5-1 without kobe last year.

they are also statistically much better when kobe shoots LESS shots.

so whats this about first options?

They were 6-3 and had a below league average offense. They won games because they gave much more effort on defense. Sorta like the 94 Bulls.

[ashlar]

the lakers were like 5-1 without kobe last year.

they are also statistically much better when kobe shoots LESS shots.

so whats this about first options?

When the lakers are up by 25 points in the 4th I'm sure Kobe isn't in the game let alone getting more shot attempts. Please don't ever bring up that ridiculous stat as an argument to anything ever again.

[JBull]

the lakers were like 5-1 without kobe last year.

they are also statistically much better when kobe shoots LESS shots.

so whats this about first options?

They are better statistically when Kobe shoots less, I give you that yall. So you ask what this about first options? Well still, Gasol ain't a first option, he's a great 2nd option that's for sure, but he can't lead a team by himself... the pressure will get to him, as you can see in past when he was the first option, damnnnnnnn that was howwid.

Lakers bein 5-1, thats nice. Won't have much good runs like that with Gasol bein the first option.

Still, don't get me wrong, they will do well but they will just get more L's like this.

[Jacks3]

Correlation=Causation!






:facepalm

[ZenMaster]

He does not get the ball quite a bit - thats why he complained about it several times last season and you have games where he only attemts 8 or 9 FGAs. There are no justifications for players such as Ron Artest or Shannon Brown to shoot so much given their low FG% - thats NOT accepting their limitations. I am not saying Gasol should average 20 shots but why can't he get the same number of shots as say Pippen (about 15.8 to 16.7 shots from 1996 throgh 1998)?

You're right there was a stretch there when he fell out, but wasn't that when Kobe was gunning for some new spot on the all-time list?

They try to work players in and give them confidence through the year, you have to give them chances and shots for that to happen. I just think this Laker team was very deep, and you have to take advantage of that.

[ShaqAttack3234]

He's still doing it as much as ever in the preseason.. blows my mind how often he pulls up, or drive into traffic and get blocked.

Yeah, I don't get it, once he makes up his mind to shoot the ball, no matter how well he's defended, he's going to shoot it. Sometimes he'll fake the three and get closer, but he'll put up some awkward hanging shot that rarely makes it into the basket.

There's a reason why he's so damn inefficient, and it's not because he can't shoot, it's shot selection. A career FG% of 40.2%, career TS% of 51.7% and career eFG% of 46.7% is horrible, particularly for a spot up shooter.


I think Fisher does that for two things:

1) Find a rhythm.

2) To show the other team that he WILL fire if you leave him open, and he's known to hit the open shots. When doing this he gives his defender a reminder early that he will be shooting shots, and then they will play him tighter in off ball situations making it easier for his teammates to penetrate the offense(which isn't a strength of Fisher). So even if he's missing he's helping his team for a better situation in the next part of the game, and if he makes them he does it even more. If the defense starts to play off he'll more than likely just begin to hit his open shots which is what he does.


That's what I can think of. I have to believe there's a thought process behind it, because Fisher is one of the smarter players in the game and he knows a good shot from a bad shot.

I disagree, I think 3s early in the shot clock, or contested shots are bad shots period and hurt the team. Hell, they can be like turnovers.

Fish is a spot up shooter and a role player, if I was a coach, I'd want players like that to just take open shots, if he doesn't have one then I'd rather him give the ball to Kobe to create or throw the ball into the post. Fisher has consistently played with scoring threats and post players so the open shots will come.

I think Fisher is a smart defender who tries at that end(though he's not a lockdown defender and has been torched by quicker guards), he's overall solid and smart defensively, but I've never viewed him as a smart offensive player.

OT, but speaking of bad shot selection, anyone remember White Chocolate in his Sacramento days? :oldlol: Pull up 35 footers quick in the shot clock and passes you won't see many And 1 players try. He was fun to watch, but I can only imagine how frustrating that was for Adelman.

[ZenMaster]

They are better statistically when Kobe shoots less, I give you that yall. So you ask what this about first options? Well still, Gasol ain't a first option, he's a great 2nd option that's for sure, but he can't lead a team by himself... the pressure will get to him, as you can see in past when he was the first option, damnnnnnnn that was howwid.

Lakers bein 5-1, thats nice. Won't have much good runs like that with Gasol bein the first option.

Still, don't get me wrong, they will do well but they will just get more L's like this.

Pau wont have to do it alone when being the 1st option, just like Kobe doesn't.
Players like Drew, Odom and Artest can easily handle more shots.
I remember Brown played pretty well when getting most of his times with the starters as well.
Lakers have a great team and thats our strength. It wasn't that long ago Kobe was around pretty bad players, and even though he was tearing it up it wasn't pretty from a team point of vew.

[KenneBell]

they are also statistically much better when kobe shoots LESS shots.

:oldlol:

Now find out how many of those "better games" were due to blowouts where Kobe didn't have to shoot.

That "stat" shows nothing about conditional game situations ie it's bunk.

[ZenMaster]

Yeah, I don't get it, once he makes up his mind to shoot the ball, no matter how well he's defended, he's going to shoot it. Sometimes he'll fake the three and get closer, but he'll put up some awkward hanging shot that rarely makes it into the basket.

There's a reason why he's so damn inefficient, and it's not because he can't shoot, it's shot selection. A career FG% of 40.2%, career TS% of 51.7% and career eFG% of 46.7% is horrible, particularly for a spot up shooter.



I disagree, I think 3s early in the shot clock, or contested shots are bad shots period and hurt the team. Hell, they can be like turnovers.

Fish is a spot up shooter and a role player, if I was a coach, I'd want players like that to just take open shots, if he doesn't have one then I'd rather him give the ball to Kobe to create or throw the ball into the post. Fisher has consistently played with scoring threats and post players so the open shots will come.

I think Fisher is a smart defender who tries at that end(though he's not a lockdown defender and has been torched by quicker guards), he's overall solid and smart defensively, but I've never viewed him as a smart offensive player.

OT, but speaking of bad shot selection, anyone remember White Chocolate in his Sacramento days? :oldlol: Pull up 35 footers quick in the shot clock and passes you won't see many And 1 players try. He was fun to watch, but I can only imagine how frustrating that was for Adelman.

I think my points make sense though.

He does it most often at the start of games, so it has to be to send a message. If he was just shooting just to be shooting he should be doing it all game. Him always doing it at the start of games shows you he's aware.

[kizut1659]

You're right there was a stretch there when he fell out, but wasn't that when Kobe was gunning for some new spot on the all-time list?

They try to work players in and give them confidence through the year, you have to give them chances and shots for that to happen. I just think this Laker team was very deep, and you have to take advantage of that.

Its not that deep actually. Artest is a good defensive player but sucks on offense most of the time. The only good offensive players are Kobe, Gasol, Bynuym and Odom is decent. The bench sucked last year simply as that. I just don't see justification for Gasol averaging the same number of shots per 36 minutes as most other players on the team.

[kizut1659]

Meh. He only played 59 games in 07 and the 14.5 shots he got in 06 isn't much more than the 13 he's been getting the last three years. Plus, he has to share shots with a very deep Laker team--Odom/Artest/Brown/Blake/Barnes etc--not just Bryant. As for him being a better, that true, but the improvement he's shown has come in rebounding and defense. His offensive game is very much the same. Also, I think you're underestimating Kobe's health. I expect him to be close to 100% by opening day. Again, in the last two preseason he's looked very good, and has shown very quick improvement through the last couple of weeks. I'm pretty sure he's going to start the season taking his usual 18-20 shots in any case.

Why should he share shots with players like Artest (41% FGA) and Brown (42% FGA)?

[ILLsmak]

I think people need to not confuse a big 'first option' with a guard first option. Kobe does change the defense and it does get wins, but a lot of the time it's like happy Kobe playtime out there where he just shoots it and everyone else is like "triangle what?"

Just because Gasol becomes first option doesn't mean he's gonna start running around and shooting 25 shots a game over 3 people. It just means that they will say "Kobe, you can get yours, but we want to focus on getting the ball to Gasol."

Not saying Gasol is Shaq, but remember Shaq was first option for LA and Kobe got shots. I can even go as far as to say Shaq was first option for Miami and Wade still got shots. It's just saying that the majority of their offense will be based on a reaction to Pau's posting opposed to Kobe's midrange game.

I don't think it's a bad idea. Kobe is gonna get his shots and almost 30 points no matter what plays they are running, don't you guys know that by now?

-Smak

[che guevara]

Fisher shouldn't be allowed to attempt layups, period. Never ever. In general, he the only shots e should take are 3 pointers in the last 2 minutes of a close game and that's it. The older he gets the more robberthorry-type he becomes.
Yeah, he's got to be the first player in history to shoot a better % on threes than layups.

[ZenMaster]

Its not that deep actually. Artest is a good defensive player but sucks on offense most of the time. The only good offensive players are Kobe, Gasol, Bynuym and Odom is decent. The bench sucked last year simply as that. I just don't see justification for Gasol averaging the same number of shots per 36 minutes as most other players on the team.

Well I tried to explain what I think is the reason for it.

[Jacks3]

Why should he share shots with players like Artest (41% FGA) and Brown (42% FGA)?

Have you watched Brown? The guy is a straight-up chucker. The point is that the Lakers have a bunch of guys who are gonna want to get their shots. It's not just a matter of Kobe cutting down his attempts.

[ILLsmak]

Hey, the fact that Fisher is not a great PG, is short, and isn't an athlete or great at anything yet is still the starting PG for a championship team should make you guys respect him. Kobe respects him, Phil respects him... dude is a beast.

It's not all about stats it's about the end result, and keep in mind Fisher was a big part in the Lakers coming back into relevance, too.

-Smak

[kizut1659]

Well I tried to explain what I think is the reason for it.

I know, hear your - i just don't see the value of giving so many shots to bad offensive players - if you don't have the capabilities, confidence is not going to matter.

[ILLsmak]

Have you watched Brown? The guy is a straight-up chucker. The point is that the Lakers have a bunch of guys who are gonna want to get their shots. It's not just a matter of Kobe cutting down his attempts.

He plays like he's thinks he's Kobe, it's funny. But he does make some daggers. I don't think he's a bad offensive player he's just overconfident. He's a good guy to have coming off the bench... like lil Nate or Crawford (but obviously not as talented...)

-Smak

[Jacks3]

I think people need to not confuse a big 'first option' with a guard first option. Kobe does change the defense and it does get wins, but a lot of the time it's like happy Kobe playtime out there where he just shoots it and everyone else is like "triangle what?"



-Smak

One of the biggest strengths of the triangle is that it gets isolation for Kobe and good spacing. That's a component of it. It's not like they're abandoning it.

[TryToBeUnbias]

Have you watched Brown? The guy is a straight-up chucker. The point is that the Lakers have a bunch of guys who are gonna want to get their shots. It's not just a matter of Kobe cutting down his attempts.
I can agree with that Pau would have to be a bit more demanding when he gets into position but thats just not him, thats been a complaint from many laker fans. Its not like Gasol doesn't get plenty of touches, hes just a very good passing big man and looks to distribute a bit more than he should.

Then again 3 title trips and winning two back to back leads me to think that what Pau is doing is working out just fine.

[ZenMaster]

I know, hear your - i just don't see the value of giving so many shots to bad offensive players - if you don't have the capabilities, confidence is not going to matter.

Well we won the championship, so the players must have had the capabilities to come through :)

[kizut1659]

I can agree with that Pau would have to be a bit more demanding when he gets into position but thats just not him, thats been a complaint from many laker fans. Its not like Gasol doesn't get plenty of touches, hes just a very good passing big man and looks to distribute a bit more than he should.

Then again 3 title trips and winning two back to back leads me to think that what Pau is doing is working out just fine.

Gasol actually complained about not getting enough touches several times last year and even before that during the finals with Orlando. Even Bryant had weighted on it saying basically "tough" you have to share inside touches with Bynuym, which misses the point since Lakers do not go inside often enough period due. So its not Pau's "personality" but the system and selfishness of other players that prevents him from getting enough touches.

[ShaqAttack3234]

The Lakers are going to Pau and he's delivering. He's averaged 25.3 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 5 apg and 2 bpg on 53% shooting in the first 3 games.

And with Odom averaging 16 ppg, 13.7 rpg and 3.3 apg on 68% shooting, I think the Lakers should bring Bynum off the bench when he comes back. Pau plays better with Odom anyway and Odom plays better as a starter.

The Lakers look more dangerous than ever, their bench is better and so far, Phil is doing a good job of limiting Kobe's minutes(33 mpg) while still getting great production out of Kobe(24/6/4, 46% shooting).

[All Net]

The Lakers are going to Pau and he's delivering. He's averaged 25.3 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 5 apg and 2 bpg on 53% shooting in the first 3 games.

And with Odom averaging 16 ppg, 13.7 rpg and 3.3 apg on 68% shooting, I think the Lakers should bring Bynum off the bench when he comes back. Pau plays better with Odom anyway and Odom plays better as a starter.

The Lakers look more dangerous than ever, their bench is better and so far, Phil is doing a good job of limiting Kobe's minutes(33 mpg) while still getting great production out of Kobe(24/6/4, 46% shooting).

Looking good so far, what Pau is doing is no surprise as he has gotten better every year as a Laker. Lamar's play has been terrific. never seen him this focused and motivated. the way Lakers frontcourt are dominating right now is scary when you have a guy who averaged 15 and 8 last year and a guy who can go off for 20 and 10 on any night still out the line-up.

Think chances are Bynum will be eased back slowly and with the way LO is playing why not?

The bench has shown to be so much better than last year, Matt Barnes has been quailty so far...there just isn't much of a drop off when Artest sits. Last year you had to depend on other bodies and Luke freaking Walton to replace Artest's production.

[madmax]

The Lakers are going to Pau and he's delivering. He's averaged 25.3 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 5 apg and 2 bpg on 53% shooting in the first 3 games.

And with Odom averaging 16 ppg, 13.7 rpg and 3.3 apg on 68% shooting, I think the Lakers should bring Bynum off the bench when he comes back. Pau plays better with Odom anyway and Odom plays better as a starter.

The Lakers look more dangerous than ever, their bench is better and so far, Phil is doing a good job of limiting Kobe's minutes(33 mpg) while still getting great production out of Kobe(24/6/4, 46% shooting).
Lakers are now officially Pau's team:rockon:

[Fatal9]

I've been saying since last year. Bynum's role is redundant on this team. He only takes possessions that Pau and Kobe need to feel involved and that causes chemistry issues (Pau starts complaining about shots, Kobe gets less touches and starts forcing...things like that). Odom meanwhile creates plays and isn't a black hole and gets a lot of his offense from rebounding. Doesn't need touches to be effective like Bynum, and does everything other than post scoring better than him. They won the last two rings with Bynum contributing nothing anyways. He can give good minutes off the bench, but Pau/Odom/Kobe is the best combo and that should be the starting lineup if Gasol keeps playing well at center.

Looked up +/- from the '09 season for 5 man units, and Kobe/Pau/Odom lineups >>>>> Kobe/Pau/Bynum lineups.

[chazzy]

At this point, they'll definitely cut down Bynum's minutes after all these injuries.. probably start Bynum as usual but give Odom the majority of minutes. The offense is much more fluid with Odom, but they can be devastating defensively with Bynum out there.. he also takes on the burden of defending Cs and forces teams to defend Pau with a usually undersized PF. Also, we know Odom can adapt to a bench role but the same can't be said for Bynum.

[Papaya Petee]

All I gotta say, is Lamar Odom is a monster, who is honestly wasting his talents if he goes back to being 6th man playing 28 MPG. The guy is a monster on the boards, a good play maker, extremely efficient, and is so versatile. When Laker fans would hate on him last year when he was struggling I would just say let it wait, the guy has too much talent. So far he has been delivering great.

[All Net]

All I gotta say, is Lamar Odom is a monster, who is honestly wasting his talents if he goes back to being 6th man playing 28 MPG. The guy is a monster on the boards, a good play maker, extremely efficient, and is so versatile. When Laker fans would hate on him last year when he was struggling I would just say let it wait, the guy has too much talent. So far he has been delivering great.

Laker fans love to hate on Lamar as he was an easy target but there is no doubt he delivers in the playoffs no matter how inconsistant he has been over the years come playoff time he has been huge the past two seasons.

Bynum's minutes will be more limited due to being safe as he will be needed more for the playoffs than regular season. Lamar should be able to continue to do what he is doing.

[Waking_Life]

All I gotta say, is Lamar Odom is a monster, who is honestly wasting his talents if he goes back to being 6th man playing 28 MPG. The guy is a monster on the boards, a good play maker, extremely efficient, and is so versatile. When Laker fans would hate on him last year when he was struggling I would just say let it wait, the guy has too much talent. So far he has been delivering great.
You do realize that its only been 3 games right?

I'm not hating on Odom at all, he is a great player that can elevate the Lakers to a different level. However, I wouldn't be too quick to think that Odom will be consistent this time around. At the very least least see him do it for half a season before we start throwing out major props. The past few seasons when in shape, he has gone on some stellar runs. He has produced patches of games of 18-20 rebounds a game. The problem is that in turn, he ends up becoming complacent and disappears for an equal amount of games.

Lamar has been inconsistent ever since he arrived to Los Angeles.. So if he returns to that I wont be surprised. I do hope however, that this year his fluctuation between playing great and disappearing isn't as wide as it has been in the past.

[indiefan24]

You do realize that its only been 3 games right?

I'm not hating on Odom at all, he is a great player that can elevate the Lakers to a different level. However, I wouldn't be too quick to think that Odom will be consistent this time around. At the very least least see him do it for half a season before we start throwing out major props. The past few seasons when in shape, he has gone on some stellar runs. He has produced patches of games of 18-20 rebounds a game. The problem is that in turn, he ends up becoming complacent and disappears for an equal amount of games.

Lamar has been inconsistent ever since he arrived to Los Angeles.. So if he returns to that I wont be surprised. I do hope however, that this year his fluctuation between playing great and disappearing isn't as wide as it has been in the past.

Lets also take into account that he's bound to hit a wall considering he's been playing at a high level since July/August (World Championships).

[Papaya Petee]

Laker fans love to hate on Lamar as he was an easy target but there is no doubt he delivers in the playoffs no matter how inconsistant he has been over the years come playoff time he has been huge the past two seasons.

Bynum's minutes will be more limited due to being safe as he will be needed more for the playoffs than regular season. Lamar should be able to continue to do what he is doing.
I don't know what you think about this, but IMO Lamar should be a starter. While Bynum should be 6th man. Pau Gasol is so comfortable close to the basket, and I think he doesn't need Bynum in there because he takes up too much space. Let Pau operate, he's crazy efficient. Odom can space the floor out, and can Pick and Roll with Pau which we know Pau is great with. They are both very tall and long so defense wouldn't be a problem, as you can see in the first 3 games.

Bynum can be out there with the second unit and they can run it through him every time if they surround him with shooters(if he learns to pass out of the post) It is much easier running a second unit through a 7"1 guy who we know can score, rebound and defend, rather then through a Lamar Odom who would rather play on the perimeter.

[All Net]

You do realize that its only been 3 games right?

I'm not hating on Odom at all, he is a great player that can elevate the Lakers to a different level. However, I wouldn't be too quick to think that Odom will be consistent this time around. At the very least least see him do it for half a season before we start throwing out major props. The past few seasons when in shape, he has gone on some stellar runs. He has produced patches of games of 18-20 rebounds a game. The problem is that in turn, he ends up becoming complacent and disappears for an equal amount of games.

Lamar has been inconsistent ever since he arrived to Los Angeles.. So if he returns to that I wont be surprised. I do hope however, that this year his fluctuation between playing great and disappearing isn't as wide as it has been in the past.

All this is true, it's still very early but you can see a different Lamar this season. He has never looked this strong and focused to start a season. Maybe the world championships got him ahead of most but normally at this stage of the year he is still finding his feet but his mindset looks totally different. Maybe when Drew returns things will change but right now he looks a totally different player.

[Papaya Petee]

You do realize that its only been 3 games right?

I'm not hating on Odom at all, he is a great player that can elevate the Lakers to a different level. However, I wouldn't be too quick to think that Odom will be consistent this time around. At the very least least see him do it for half a season before we start throwing out major props. The past few seasons when in shape, he has gone on some stellar runs. He has produced patches of games of 18-20 rebounds a game. The problem is that in turn, he ends up becoming complacent and disappears for an equal amount of games.

Lamar has been inconsistent ever since he arrived to Los Angeles.. So if he returns to that I wont be surprised. I do hope however, that this year his fluctuation between playing great and disappearing isn't as wide as it has been in the past.

It hasn't been only 3 games. Lamar has shown he can put up 17\12\3 50%+ throughout his entire career. He did it with LAC and Miami. Inconsistent? Yes. But they have a very deep bench as well as Pau and Kobe that can make up for some of the games he dissapears in.

[Waking_Life]

All this is true, it's still very early but you can see a different Lamar this season. He has never looked this strong and focused to start a season. Maybe the world championships got him ahead of most but normally at this stage of the year he is still finding his feet but his mindset looks totally different. Maybe when Drew returns things will change but right now he looks a totally different player.
The reason I think he is looking so good, is because hes already in mid-season form. Odom never comes into camp in great shape. He always has to work himself up to shape. So since hes been playing already during the summer and his conditioning is peaked then he is firing on all cylinders.

What worries me is that he may burn himself out. We know that Odom tends to lose focus and is battling shoulder issues. So I hope that he can keep himself in good form so that his help can be felt for the whole 82.

Im under the opinion that when Bynum returns he should come off the bench. Odom seems to be more focused when starting and he produces a lot more than Bynum does, when given equal playing time.

[Fatal9]

It hasn't been only 3 games. Lamar has shown he can put up 17\12\3 50%+ throughout his entire career. He did it with LAC and Miami. Inconsistent? Yes. But they have a very deep bench as well as Pau and Kobe that can make up for some of the games he dissapears in.
what?

His best season pre-LA was with Miami and he averaged 17.1 ppg, 9.6 rpg, 4.1 apg and shot 43%. Hardly 17/12/3 on 50+%.

[Waking_Life]

It hasn't been only 3 games. Lamar has shown he can put up 17\12\3 50%+ throughout his entire career. He did it with LAC and Miami. Inconsistent? Yes. But they have a very deep bench as well as Pau and Kobe that can make up for some of the games he dissapears in.
Im not saying that Odom isn't a great player or that he doesn't contribute. All im saying is that its a bit premature to label him this stellar impact player before he delivers it. And I think your wrong.. Clippers, Miami, Lakers.. no matter where he has played his fluctuation in play has always been an issue. Hes never really been one of the main guys that you could count on. Hes the guy that your always worried about. Thats why everyone is having such knee jerk reactions to his great play so far... Personally I dont want to get my hopes up.

[Waking_Life]

what?

His best season pre-LA was with Miami and he averaged 17.1 ppg, 9.6 rpg, 4.1 apg and shot 43%. Hardly 17/12/3 on 50+%.
Im saying..


The guy doesnt know what hes talking about.

[All Net]

The reason I think he is looking so good, is because hes already in mid-season form. Odom never comes into camp in great shape. He always has to work himself up to shape. So since hes been playing already during the summer and his conditioning is peaked then he is firing on all cylinders.

What worries me is that he may burn himself out. We know that Odom tends to lose focus and is battling shoulder issues. So I hope that he can keep himself in good form so that his help can be felt for the whole 82.

Im under the opinion that when Bynum returns he should come off the bench. Odom seems to be more focused when starting and he produces a lot more than Bynum does, when given equal playing time.

You're right Odom's form might be purely based on that. Even Phil Jackson said he hasn't seen LO in this kind of shape at this point of the year for years. Alot of that is due to the world championships.

Bynum coming back will be interesting, Bynum is more effective when he does start and I think it's important having the energy Odom brings off the bench.

[ZeN]

Bynum coming back will be interesting, Bynum is more effective when he does start and I think it's important having the energy Odom brings off the bench.


The positive about Odom working with the second unit is that he no longer has to deal with guys like Sasha and Farmar getting wild and not following the program. Having Lamar, Blake, Barns.. among others should help stabilize bench play. Hopefully this could mean keeping the leads that the starting unit built up. Last season it was so frustrating seeing the second unit squander all the work done. Players like Farmar, Sasha, and to a certain extent Brown seem to be quite self serving, forgetting the team game.

I guess no matter where he plays, if Odom remains focused.. it should all be good.

[justin43]

So far Pau Gasol has been great this season and has really brought his level of play up a level. As for Lamar, I would he keeps this consistent play up. He has been a beast down low in rebounding and his ability to make the outside shot and post up players in the power forward position is excellent. He is clearly one of my favorite players to watch when his game is on.

[ShaqAttack3234]

I've been saying since last year. Bynum's role is redundant on this team. He only takes possessions that Pau and Kobe need to feel involved and that causes chemistry issues (Pau starts complaining about shots, Kobe gets less touches and starts forcing...things like that). Odom meanwhile creates plays and isn't a black hole and gets a lot of his offense from rebounding. Doesn't need touches to be effective like Bynum, and does everything other than post scoring better than him. They won the last two rings with Bynum contributing nothing anyways. He can give good minutes off the bench, but Pau/Odom/Kobe is the best combo and that should be the starting lineup if Gasol keeps playing well at center.

Looked up +/- from the '09 season for 5 man units, and Kobe/Pau/Odom lineups >>>>> Kobe/Pau/Bynum lineups.

I don't know why people act like Pau can't play center. Bynum missed 31 games in '09 and Pau averaged 21/10/4 on 59% shooting and last year in 15 games without Bynum, Pau averaged 22/13/4 and 2.4 bpg on 56% shooting.

And do people just see Bynum penciled in as the starting center and assume he was the Lakers center for the majority of games?

Take the 2009 playoffs for example, Pau averaged 40.5 mpg, Odom averaged 32 mpg and Bynum.....17.4 mpg.

Not surprisingly, Pau was the Lakers center 61% of the time, Bynum....35%.

Odom plays better as a starter and Pau plays better with Odom, plus there are more opportunities for Kobe to post up. And having 3 great passers like Kobe, Gasol and Odom is a big advantage.

Bynum could get more touches with the second unit as well.

[EarlTheGoat]

I don't know why people act like Pau can't play center. Bynum missed 31 games in '09 and Pau averaged 21/10/4 on 59% shooting and last year in 15 games without Bynum, Pau averaged 22/13/4 and 2.4 bpg on 56% shooting.

And do people just see Bynum penciled in as the starting center and assume he was the Lakers center for the majority of games?

Take the 2009 playoffs for example, Pau averaged 40.5 mpg, Odom averaged 32 mpg and Bynum.....17.4 mpg.

Not surprisingly, Pau was the Lakers center 61% of the time, Bynum....35%.

Odom plays better as a starter and Pau plays better with Odom, plus there are more opportunities for Kobe to post up. And having 3 great passers like Kobe, Gasol and Odom is a big advantage.

Bynum could get more touches with the second unit as well.

I agree 100 % with this post.

[KenneBell]

Gasol is impressing me so far. They coaching staff will start dialing him back as Kobe and Bynum get back up to speed but so far he's handling being the #1 very well.

[Disaprine]

Gasol is impressing me so far. They coaching staff will start dialing him back as Kobe and Bynum get back up to speed but so far he's handling being the #1 very well.
my thoughts exactly.

[laronprofit9]

The most effective place I've seen Kobe was at the beginning of last season.

When Gasol was out.

Kobe was like averaging 31 ppg on 49%fg.

Gasol has been a monster right now, and Lamar this is the best season I ever seen from him as a Laker.

If Lamar plays like this, we're unbeatable.

kobe and Pau are a given.

It's a relief to actually have a decent pg, it makes a huge difference.

[LA_Showtime]

The reason I think he is looking so good, is because hes already in mid-season form. Odom never comes into camp in great shape. He always has to work himself up to shape. So since hes been playing already during the summer and his conditioning is peaked then he is firing on all cylinders.

What worries me is that he may burn himself out. We know that Odom tends to lose focus and is battling shoulder issues. So I hope that he can keep himself in good form so that his help can be felt for the whole 82.

Im under the opinion that when Bynum returns he should come off the bench. Odom seems to be more focused when starting and he produces a lot more than Bynum does, when given equal playing time.

That's not it. I understand he's in better shape, but what I see is a more mature Lamar Odom out there. One who realizes he's on the downside of his career and that he might not have another opportunity to win a championship. I doubt he keeps producing these types of numbers, but having this type of force off the bench will be key in winning another championship.

[Allstar24]

Pau's been amazing as the first option so far...granted its only 3 games but he is always consistent. Obviously his stats will drop when Bynum comes back, it does every year. But the point is that he is so good, I don't even remember that we're missing Bynum. That's why I laugh when idiots (ESPN) say the Lakers won't 3-peat without Bynum.

[LA_Showtime]

Pau's been amazing as the first option so far...granted its only 3 games but he is always consistent. Obviously his stats will drop when Bynum comes back, it does every year. But the point is that he is so good, I don't even remember that we're missing Bynum. That's why I laugh when idiots (ESPN) say the Lakers won't 3-peat without Bynum.

Yeah, he's played great. I'm not really surprised though. I guess it's the whole don't fully appreciate how damn good he is. The guy who has really stood out to me is Lamar.

[Allstar24]

Yeah, he's played great. I'm not really surprised though. I guess it's the whole don't fully appreciate how damn good he is. The guy who has really stood out to me is Lamar.
He's definitely looking good but I feel like it won't last. With Pau, you know he'll keep it up...he's like the definition of consistency while Lamar is just the opposite :oldlol:

[laronprofit9]

I'd like to see how Gasol and Lamar will do against bigger frontlines like the Celtics, Spurs, Blazers, etc...

The Warriors and Suns really don't have enough size to do anything. The Rockets could only play Yao like 24 minutes.

[Allstar24]

^I've seen others say the same thing but you guys forget that Pau destroyed the Celts in game 7. He's been owning Duncan for the past couple of years. So he's got nothing to prove really...

[laronprofit9]

^I've seen others say the same thing but you guys forget that Pau destroyed the Celts in game 7. He's been owning Duncan for the past couple of years. So he's got nothing to prove really...

Eh.. wouldn't say that's completely accurate


2008 3rd Round Playoffs Pau Gasol vs San Antonio Spurs

13.2 ppg 9.6 rpg 3.6 apg 45%fg 0%3P 73%FT 47%TS = 66/(2*(65+11*0.44))

In Game 7 of last years' finals:

Pau Gasol shot 6 for 16 (38%).

[Allstar24]

Eh.. wouldn't say that's completely accurate


2008 3rd Round Playoffs Pau Gasol vs San Antonio Spurs

13.2 ppg 9.6 rpg 3.6 apg 45%fg 0%3P 73%FT 47%TS = 66/(2*(65+11*0.44))

In Game 7 of last years' finals, Pau Gasol shot 6 for 16 (38%).
Well everybody shot like crap in game 7. But his rebounding and defense was great...and he really stepped up and made big shots in the 4th Q. I know he got manhandled in the 08 finals but he has come a long way since then.

[ZeN]

I doubt he keeps producing these types of numbers, but having this type of force off the bench will be key in winning another championship.

Dont be surprised to see him come off the bench and see his numbers and aggression drop considerably. He has stated numerous times that coming off the bench throws him off.. he says he doesn't get the same feel for the game, as when starting. Plus, his concentration lingers.. It would be great if im wrong tho because Odom has never lived up to his 'Great 6th man' status.. and if he does now, then the Lakers will truly be a scary team.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Gasol is impressing me so far. They coaching staff will start dialing him back as Kobe and Bynum get back up to speed but so far he's handling being the #1 very well.
This ... for the win. As usual with this fukkin poster ...

:facepalm

[New York Knicks]

The most effective place I've seen Kobe was at the beginning of last season.

When Gasol was out.

Kobe was like averaging 31 ppg on 49%fg.

Gasol has been a monster right now, and Lamar this is the best season I ever seen from him as a Laker.

If Lamar plays like this, we're unbeatable.

kobe and Pau are a given.

It's a relief to actually have a decent pg, it makes a huge difference.
Kobe's had lots of great stretches like that. But he's never been able to maintain it for an entire season. He always regresses back to his average of 45% because he also has stretches where he goes 24ppg on 38% shooting.

[All Net]

Kobe's had lots of great stretches like that. But he's never been able to maintain it for an entire season. He always regresses back to his average of 45% because he also has stretches where he goes 24ppg on 38% shooting.

It doesn't help getting hurt as much as he did last season. i think he was well on his way for a career high FG% last year. Guess we will never know if he could of kept it up.

[New York Knicks]

It doesn't help getting hurt as much as he did last season. i think he was well on his way for a career high FG% last year. Guess we will never know if he could of kept it up.
Players have stretches where they fight through nagging injuries. But come on. Look through every one of his seasons. He shoots around the same % eventually for the season. Are you gonna tell me injuries caused that EVERY season?

[catch24]

^ After the injury he was shooting around 77% (85% before it) from the line, which was the lowest of his career. Not saying he'd of kept his FG% around 48-49 all season, but his injury most definitely prevented it from happening.

[TheAnchorman]

He's on my fantasy team :rockon:

[crisoner]

He's on my fantasy team :rockon:

THIS!!!

I got him as well!

SPANIARD!!!! SPANIARD!!!! SPANIARD!!!! SPANIARD!!!! SPANIARD!!!!

http://content.artofmanliness.com/uploads/2008/01/gladiator-crowe.png

[LA_Showtime]

It doesn't help getting hurt as much as he did last season. i think he was well on his way for a career high FG% last year. Guess we will never know if he could of kept it up.

At this point, we kinda just have to assume he wouldn't. He takes 4 or 5 bad shots per game, and it's obvious he doesn't really care about shooting percentage.

[ShaqAttack3234]

So how long until Kobe is the first option again? Kobe is a proven championship first option, and while I like the idea of limiting Kobe's minutes and load early, they'll have to transition back to what has proven successful when it matters most. Kobe is playing very well right now and health doesn't seem to be an issue so he's definitely at a level where he could assume that role and keep the Lakers winning. But right now the team is 6-0 and they're outscoring their opponents by 11.6 ppg so I can understand why now isn't the best time to change anything.

And I was skeptical about whether Phil would actually make Pau the number 1 option early, but surprisingly, after watching the team a lot and looking at the numbers, it seems to be the case.

Pau Gasol- 24.8 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 4.2 apg 1.7 bpg, 1.8 TO, 52.7 FG%, 57.7 TS%, 18.7 FGA 38.5 mpg
Kobe Bryant- 24.7 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 5.2 apg, 1 spg, 2.3 TO, 46.1 FG%, 59.5 TS%, 17 FGA, 32.5 mpg

Gasol attempting more shots is surprising, but Kobe has played extremely well. He's been efficient, and his playmaking has never been better. He's also crashing the boards and posting up a lot. I like how he's continued to adjust his game despite a dramatic decline in athleticism even since 2008.

[Jacks3]

Pau isn't the first option; He's just playing a lot more minutes.

PER 36 Numbers

Kobe--27/7/6/60% TS
Pau---23/10/3/58% TS

Kobe is scoring way more.

Kobe= MVP.

[Bodhi]

It's like the first round of the playoffs when Kobe was injured and Gasol was the #1 option. There was a lot of talk about how Kobe had declined and Gasol was now the best player in LA. Then Kobe strings together an amazing series of games and everyone who was guaranteeing Kobe's decline pretends that they never did.

20 games into the season this kind of talk will be done.

[bl2k8]

Kobe's shot 50% in half the games so far, I think he could actually get very close to 50 this year as long as their are no injuries.

[D-Rose]

A true Laker fan doesn't care who's #1 as long as we win.

end thread./

[JM720]

Pau isn't the first option; He's just playing a lot more minutes.

PER 36 Numbers

Kobe--27/7/6/60% TS
Pau---23/10/3/58% TS

Kobe is scoring way more.

Kobe= MVP.

And he's had 2 games already that he's drop 20 or more at half. Kobe is just taking it easy, and still putting up great numbers.

[Samurai Swoosh]

And he's had 2 games already that he's drop 20 or more at half. Kobe is just taking it easy, and still putting up great numbers.
Exactly. He had two games in a row of sitting on 20 points at the half.

:facepalm

[Jacks3]

And he's had 2 games already that he's drop 20 or more at half. Kobe is just taking it easy, and still putting up great numbers.
Yep. If he wanted he could go out there and drop 30+ nightly.

There's a huge gap between Pau/Kobe.

Look at the Raptors game. Pau needed 44 minutes to get 30 and looked exhausted doing it; Kobe got 23 points in 33 minutes and it was effortless.

[amfirst]

Kobe doesn'y have to do as much since laks have better perimeter players. Since Bynum is out Gasol has to carry a bigger offensive load in the middle. Simple as that...

[kizut1659]

I am not a Kobe hater and I posted a number of posts saying how he is easily top 10 player of all time but. . . i geniunely believe the guy has too much ego to let anyone else be a #1 option at this point in his career. Once Bynum comes back, a decent number of Gasol's shots will go to him - its not like Lakers would go to interior generally more. Personally, i'd be happy as long as Gasol gets 15FGAs per game. . . something he never really came close to doing on the Lakers.

[kizut1659]

remember what Bryant said couple times last year "I eat first". . . which i found to be in pretty bad taste but reflective of his mindset.

[Doranku]

A true Laker fan doesn't care who's #1 as long as we win.

end thread./

This. Who cares who's the #1 option? Pau Gasol is destroying people, Kobe is playing as efficiently as ever as both a scorer and a playmaker, and the Lakers are 6-0.

[JM720]

I am not a Kobe hater and I posted a number of posts saying how he is easily top 10 player of all time but. . . i geniunely believe the guy has too much ego to let anyone else be a #1 option at this point in his career. Once Bynum comes back, a decent number of Gasol's shots will go to him - its not like Lakers would go to interior generally more. Personally, i'd be happy as long as Gasol gets 15FGAs per game. . . something he never really came close to doing on the Lakers.

Yeah its his ego that would not let anyone else be the #1 option, and not him still being a Top 2 or 3 player in the World Still... that has lead his team to 3 straight finals as the #1 option and still dropping 20 points by Half like its nothing. No its not that, its his ego.

All Kobe is proving to me is when he's not good enough to be a #1 option (We'll have to wait a couple more years for that), he will still be very effective at playing another role, In helping the Lakers win.

[GOBB]

Is this Gasol best start of his career? No knee jerk, I know its only 6gms. But he's been productive across the board and then some.

[BallsOut]

This. Who cares who's the #1 option? Pau Gasol is destroying people, Kobe is playing as efficiently as ever as both a scorer and a playmaker, and the Lakers are 6-0.

Exactly. I'm beginning to view this Laker team more and more as the Celtics of 2008 where one night its KG, another night its Ray or PP, another night its Big Baby.

Like the Celtics, this team just has so many weapons, including significantly improved benchplay. I think Kobe's starting to realize this as well, and that's why he's trusting his teammates put in a lot more work.

[Jacks3]

I am not a Kobe hater and I posted a number of posts saying how he is easily top 10 player of all time but. . . i geniunely believe the guy has too much ego to let anyone else be a #1 option at this point in his career. Once Bynum comes back, a decent number of Gasol's shots will go to him - its not like Lakers would go to interior generally more. Personally, i'd be happy as long as Gasol gets 15FGAs per game. . . something he never really came close to doing on the Lakers.
Pau was only getting 12-14 shots in Mem too. Same in LA. That's just who he is. Oh, and Kobe being the #1 has lead the Lakers to three straight Finals and back-to-back championships. :pimp:

[Jacks3]

Kobe is taking more shots per minute than he did last year; His game has not changed. He's still going to take 20-21 shots a game, as he should.

[catch24]

I don't understand why people want Gasol to attempt MORE shots (i.e. more than 15+) than he's accustomed to? He's never been that type of player. Kobe as the 1st option (getting the most shots while having the ball in his hands) has led the Lakers to 3 straight Final appearances. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

That said, PG has been playing phenomenal. Phil needs to watch his minutes though -- dude played like, what, 44 yesterday?

[Doranku]

I don't understand why people want Gasol to attempt MORE shots (i.e. more than 15+) than he's accustomed to? He's never been that type of player. Kobe as the 1st option (getting the most shots while having the ball in his hands) has led the Lakers to 3 straight Final appearances. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

That said, PG has been playing phenomenal. Phil needs to watch his minutes though -- dude played like, what, 44 yesterday?

Yeah, and Odom played 40. I might understand that if we had a long delay until the next game, but we play again tomorrow night. Still, I'm not too worried about it. I'm sure as the season progresses their minutes will start dropping, especially when Bynum returns.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Pau isn't the first option; He's just playing a lot more minutes.

PER 36 Numbers

Kobe--27/7/6/60% TS
Pau---23/10/3/58% TS

Kobe is scoring way more.

Kobe= MVP.

I think Kobe has been the best player on the Lakers, too, but if you had to call one of them the first option through the first 6 games, it'd be Pau, that's why he's played 6 more mpg, Phil said he'd look to Pau to be the first option early in the season and carry a bigger load. Nobody thinks Pau is on Kobe's level as a player. And I don't think Pau will remain the first option for much longer honestly.

Who the first option is, doesn't necessarily determine who the best player is. Kareem was still the Lakers first option in '86, but Magic had surpassed him as a player at that point, Pierce would probably be called the first option on the '08 Celtics, but Garnett was definitely their best player and Wade seems to be taking the role of first option on the Heat, but that doesn't mean he's a better overall player than Lebron.

Besides, it's a 6 game stretch, like I said, they should transition back to Kobe being the clear number 1 guy because that's proven and I don't trust Pau as a number 1 option in the playoffs. I expect this to happen soon because Kobe has proven the knee isn't an issue, though it does seem that the Lakers are going to limit Kobe's minutes more than they did last year in the regular season to keep him healthy for the playoffs. At most, I see him averaging 36 mpg like he did in 2009.


I am not a Kobe hater and I posted a number of posts saying how he is easily top 10 player of all time but. . . i geniunely believe the guy has too much ego to let anyone else be a #1 option at this point in his career. Once Bynum comes back, a decent number of Gasol's shots will go to him - its not like Lakers would go to interior generally more. Personally, i'd be happy as long as Gasol gets 15FGAs per game. . . something he never really came close to doing on the Lakers.

I really don't think the Lakers should throw the ball to Bynum in the post much. Taking shots away from Pau and giving them to Bynum will only make them worse offensively. Pau is a much better scorer and passer, plus he's more unselfish and has a higher basketball IQ.

Bynum is pretty much only missed defensively, the Lakers offense looks great right now. Bynum's length alters shots and he allows the Lakers to always have size on the floor for rebounding. That's basically his value.

Bynum will get opportunities to score when help comes when Kobe penetrates or when Pau is doubled in the post. Plus, he'll have opportunities to rebound missed shots. If he's scoring that way, he can be very effective.

If he works hard, he could get a very efficient 12 or so ppg that way.


Pau was only getting 12-14 shots in Mem too. Same in LA. That's just who he is. Oh, and Kobe being the #1 has lead the Lakers to three straight Finals and back-to-back championships. :pimp:

I don't think that many unbiased posters think Pau should be the first option in the playoffs. But Pau is not just a 12-14 FGA player. He was getting about 15 shots per game in '06 and '07 and he had his best seasons in Memphis those years.

Right now, he's delivering on almost 19 shots per game, and he inreased his production when he got more shots in '09 and '10 with Bynum out.

Pau shouldn't take shots away from Kobe, but he should take them away from Bynum.

I'd try to get Kobe 20 or so shots per game if he's playing 36 mpg, and keep Pau around 17-18 per game. Bynum taking shots away from Pau definitely doesn't help the team, as I said, Bynum's value is his length defensively and if he matures, he could be a big asset on the boards and just finishing when opportunities come his way.


Is this Gasol best start of his career? No knee jerk, I know its only 6gms. But he's been productive across the board and then some.

It's funny you mention this because I actually checked earlier and it's easily his best 6 game start. Not that 6 games proves all that much, but I said before the season that I thought Pau was going to have a career year for several reasons. He's gotten better every year that he's been in Los Angeles, he plays better when Bynum is out and Phil wanted him to take on a bigger role.

I doubt he'll finish the season at 25/10/4, but 22/10 for the season wouldn't surprise me at all.

[G-Funk]

Pau is taking more shots because Bynum is not taking any touches from from him, this team is just showing us that the Lakers can fill in the gaps with no problem when 1 of their players go down.