Mj walks away from Hard foul

[juju151111]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr-z4gubTTE chews his gum and walks away. PP is the same situation would of called for a wheelchair. Kobe would of screamed "ahhhhhhhhhhhh" cries to\\for a flagrant. No flagrant on that play by the way

[Willkill24]

What a tough guy. :eek: :bowdown:

[ProfessorMurder]

:bowdown:

[gts]

That's amazing. That alone will get a guy into the HOF

[Mr Clutch Melo]

Was not really that hard but Jordan was tough mofo

[Big#50]

Shit was nothing. But Jordan was the toughest and strongest sg of all time.

[scm5]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr-z4gubTTE chews his gum and walks away. PP is the same situation would of called for a wheelchair. Kobe would of screamed "ahhhhhhhhhhhh" cries to\\for a flagrant. No flagrant on that play by the way

Right, cuz that's exactly what Kobe did when Bell clotheslined him right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V8ZukXsWmk

[B-Low]

f*ck milk. Cigars are really what gives you strong bones.

[ProfessorMurder]

f*ck milk. Cigars are really what gives you strong bones.

I'm going to dip cigars in milk! NBA here I come.

[macpierce]

that would be a flagrant in todays game but it wasnt too nasty of a hit, :rockon:

[gts]

I'm going to dip cigars in milk! NBA here I come.you'll be sure to get that all important pepto bismal deal

[RUCKER]

That foul is laughable at best when compared to even just the normal everyday foul in today's game.

[KenneBell]

Right, cuz that's exactly what Kobe did when Bell clotheslined him right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V8ZukXsWmk
/thread

[brwnman]

No it wouldn't have been a flagrant in today's game. And no, it was not a hard foul.

A lot of times, the flagrant is based off on reaction of the player getting fouled. That wasn't a hard foul...

[Samurai Swoosh]

Right, cuz that's exactly what Kobe did when Bell clotheslined him right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V8ZukXsWmk
Kobe's swagg and demeanor after is so bad ass ... obviously pissing Phoenix fans off.

[StacksOnDeck]

Right, cuz that's exactly what Kobe did when Bell clotheslined him right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V8ZukXsWmk

Damn...OP just got served. :roll:

[Papaya Petee]

4000 posts and this is the best thread you can think of....

[Ruh-Roh]

I agree, MJ took some amazing hits back in the day. That just wasn't one of them...that was just a good indicator of what to expect driving for a layup, which is the biggest difference between now and then.

Not that hard of a foul, not a flagrant today.

[Big#50]

Kobe is a soft ass *****. Anybody decapitated me like that would have me swinging as soon as I got up. Good thing he played in this era. He stayed down looking at the sky waiting for his team to come. Then gets up and does a little womanly wipe the shoulder move when everybody is around. JK Kobe is tough as nails. He throws elbows at unexpecting players when he shoots jumpers.

[dynasty1978]

/thread

Let's not forget this Wade and Kobe exchange....hard foul, no hard feelings:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZjrpdCPt0g&feature=related

Really it's okay to compliment Jordan without downing other players :oldlol:

[StacksOnDeck]

Kobe is a soft ass *****. Anybody decapitated me like that would have me swinging as soon as I got up. Good thing he played in this era. He stayed down looking at the sky waiting for his team to come. Then gets up and does a little womanly wipe the shoulder move when everybody is around. JK Kobe is tough as nails. He throws elbows at unexpecting players when he shoots jumpers.

Right because getting suspended is the way to go! :roll:

Man, Kobe haters are so desperate to find something to hate.

[Big#50]

Let's not forget this Wade and Kobe exchange....hard foul, no hard feelings:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZjrpdCPt0g&feature=related

Really it's okay to compliment Jordan without downing other players :oldlol:
That would have been a sick ****ing dunk. Was not that hard of a foul Wade played the ball.

[dynasty1978]

That would have been a sick ****ing dunk. Was not that hard of a foul Wade played the ball.

Wad was playing the ball and it was a hard foul, really no different from the OP's clip.

[AirTupac]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51LhMRjbbkL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

[Samurai Swoosh]

Kobe is a soft ass *****. Anybody decapitated me like that would have me swinging as soon as I got up.
And thats why you're dumb ... and thats what they were banking on.

Get the best player on the court into a fight and get him suspended.

What a dumb ass.

:facepalm

[juju151111]

Let's not forget this Wade and Kobe exchange....hard foul, no hard feelings:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZjrpdCPt0g&feature=related

Really it's okay to compliment Jordan without downing other players :oldlol:
Wade tried to block him. Two different things. Knicks wasn't trying to Block anyone, but hurt people and wear them down. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K-qGWkiKvQ and this shows the vibe of the whole nba http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xJJNUkrdyQ

[artest 93]

Wad was playing the ball and it was a hard foul, really no different from the OP's clip.

I think what is behind the reason for MJ's play is the story, not the actual play itself. It's obvious that many people were targeting Jordan specifically, and the way that he seemingly accepted that as part of the game is a factor. He just got up and blew a bubble gum, knowing it was going to happen. On Kobe's play (the foul was harder here), it was just a "part-of-the-moment" play.

Either way, I would love to see the NBA going back to its physical roots. I'm sure many fans would agree.

[dynasty1978]

Either way, I would love to see the NBA going back to its physical roots. I'm sure many fans would agree.

I'll agree with this statement. My point is that it's irrelevant whether Wade was playing the ball or not, it resulted in a hard foul and there wasn't any b*tching afterward.

I just think it was an immature way for the OP to prove a "point"....

[catch24]

juju...

:facepalm

[Da_Realist]

I uploaded it but not because of the hit. Well, not only because of the hit. I liked the strip of Dawkins, I loved the speed MJ had blowing down the court and I liked how Mahorn knew he didn't have much of a choice but to knock his ass out of the air. And MJ got up, blew a bubble and went to the line.

It was really the whole sequence I liked. That's why the description says, "Random clip". It's actually one of my favorite MJ games and I plan on uploading a highlight video of it later tonight if I have time.

[Da_Realist]

^^ Now that I think about it...I just wrote what I should have put in the description of the video :hammerhead:

["Jesus"]

Wtf was Kobe doing brushing off his shoulders :lol

[juju151111]

juju...

:facepalm
:oldlol:

[ktbee]

Out of all the fouls that Jordan took and you showed this one? C'mon man you can do better than that. Why bring down other players as well? Oh wait forget i asked. Why did i even bother posting...

[Stephen_H]

Typical thuggery out of Mahorn as usual! Cool to see the Spectrum, lots of memories for me there.

[bballer]

wasn't a hard hit but good reaction my MJ

[laronprofit9]

Wtf was Kobe doing brushing off his shoulders :lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pJFdngG1DE

[Posterize246]

It's obvious that hit was so hard that MJ actually died for 1/473th of a second and then came back to life, leading his team to victory.

MJ > Kobe

[evilmonkey]

There is no question MJ was very tough, but this foul was not that hard IMO... he has absorbed much harder fouls with even more cooler / nonchalant reactions, he especially got used to that physical era...

People today who have not been around to thoroughly follow those more physical eras compared to todays era get often surprised or even shocked how physical it was back in the days....

[Glide2keva]

There is no question MJ was very tough, but this foul was not that hard IMO... he has absorbed much harder fouls with even more cooler / nonchalant reactions.
This.

[Harison]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLv2F33snCE

Jordan rules - loads of good examples, like at 1:00 min. Rodman shoves MJ to the ground in WWE style, there was no call at all :facepalm Today player would be ejected for this, or at the very least Flagrant 1.

[laronprofit9]

Allen Iverson pound for pound is the best at playing through pain, and shrugging off fouls.

yeppp

[tommy3]

I saw a comment on youtube:
"Jordan would've gotten a technical today for being silently confrontational. Or something."
:roll:

[oh the horror]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLv2F33snCE

Jordan rules - loads of good examples, like at 1:00 min. Rodman shoves MJ to the ground in WWE style, there was no call at all :facepalm Today player would be ejected for this, or at the very least Flagrant 1.



:oldlol: Jesus Christ, I remember them simply HAMMERING Mike back in the day.

[Psileas]

Right, cuz that's exactly what Kobe did when Bell clotheslined him right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V8ZukXsWmk

Duh, it's obvious Kobe watched the Jordan video and did his usual MJ imitation!

Seriously, another useless hate thread. The OP couldn't just stick to the video, he should try to hate on Kobe (and Pierce, who is put in parenthesis, since he's not the main target of people like the OP). As if there haven't been hard fouls on Jordan that pissed him off.

[ImmortalD24]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZjrpdCPt0g

Duh, it's obvious Kobe watched the Jordan video and did his usual MJ imitation!

Seriously, another useless hate thread. The OP couldn't just stick to the video, he should try to hate on Kobe (and Pierce, who is put in parenthesis, since he's not the main target of people like the OP). As if there haven't been hard fouls on Jordan that pissed him off.
Seriously.. especially Kobe of all guys? come on..

[zORi]

First off OP, that foul was nothing special. Many fouls like that are committed in today's game, it's not that big of a deal.

Second, get off of Kobe's jock. I swear Kobe has some of the most uncreative haters ever.

[Harison]

I saw a comment on youtube:
"Jordan would've gotten a technical today for being silently confrontational. Or something."
:roll:
:roll: :applause:

[Glide2keva]

^^ Now that I think about it...I just wrote what I should have put in the description of the video :hammerhead:
I liked the whole defense leading to offense them of the video. I liked how he came from behind Hawkins and just ripped it right out of his shooting motion like it was nothing. Then he goes down and takes a good shot from mahorn and gets up like nothing happened and walks to the line.

I think in another thread I said something in regards to Jordan and taking hard fouls or just fouls in general and not always crying to the refs. I got foamed for it, but then this video pops up and illustrates my point.

There's also a video of Jordan going up against the Knicks in that brutal 1992 conference semifinal series that went 7 games. He broke down how he was being defended and how things would be called if they were to play that way in today's game.

[keep-itreal]

Take a hard hit.

Blows his bubble gum:oldlol:

Jordan:bowdown:

[Glide2keva]

Take a hard hit.

Blows his bubble gum:oldlol:

Jordan:bowdown:
Completely bad-ass!!!

[Jasper]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr-z4gubTTE chews his gum and walks away. PP is the same situation would of called for a wheelchair. Kobe would of screamed "ahhhhhhhhhhhh" cries to\\for a flagrant. No flagrant on that play by the way

That was a typical hammer back then. It was expected and the wing players went to the free throw line.

Life is different now :D

[Allstar24]

MJ dickriders...why can't you assholes just post the video and leave it at that? You're always looking for ways to put KB down and this is just another desperate attempt.

[Batz]

Hardfoul? He just fell. :confusedshrug:

[Micku]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLv2F33snCE

Jordan rules - loads of good examples, like at 1:00 min. Rodman shoves MJ to the ground in WWE style, there was no call at all :facepalm Today player would be ejected for this, or at the very least Flagrant 1.

Check this out. Almost the same exact foul, except nowadays you get ejected.

Scottie Pippen hard foul (got a tech): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4vaNoMvoDU

Glen Davis hard foul (got ejected): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLAtj7FKU_o


--------

OP, that wasn't a really hard foul. There are more hard fouls that you can show, but what MJ did there was a bit cool.

[Jasper]

Glen Davis ejection foul was weak as all heII

Andy basically fell down then the ref's called it up

[Calabis]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr-z4gubTTE chews his gum and walks away. PP is the same situation would of called for a wheelchair. Kobe would of screamed "ahhhhhhhhhhhh" cries to\\for a flagrant. No flagrant on that play by the way


JOrdan doesn't get foul'd as good as Kobe, remember you on ISH, KObe is the best at everything and Jordan was a product of weakness

[KenneBell]

JOrdan doesn't get foul'd as good as Kobe
The OP made this thread to say just the opposite and failed spectacularly. Don't try to spin what he did into a positive thing.

[fos]

I <3 MJ, but that is weaksauce. I don't think that's even a hard foul by today's standards.

[Calabis]

The OP made this thread to say just the opposite and failed spectacularly. Don't try to spin what he did into a positive thing.

Make it positive?? LOL...I came on this board to talk basketball. Now it seems all I do is talk Kobe...there are 30 threads a day about how great he is, then if any other player is mentioned like a band of misfits, Kobetrolla's attack that player or poster, the next thing you know they(victims) point out every negative thing about Kobe to try an shut these morons up....Kobe by far has the worst fans....too bad because he is a damn great player an should be celebrated

[KenneBell]

Now it seems all I do is talk Kobe...
Who's problem is that? You came in here to support the OP's claim that Kobe couldn't take a foul without yelling to a ref. It was proved wrong. That should have been the end of the thread.

[ImmortalD24]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDfJwV6U97U#t=4m01s

[OldSchoolBBall]

Reminds me of another hard foul Mahorn laid on MJ while on the Sixers (never mind when he was on Detroit :oldlol:). Foul seen here:

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/3554/9091sixersrickmahornfou.jpg

[KenneBell]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDfJwV6U97U#t=4m01s
Exactly.

[Calabis]

Who's problem is that? You came in here to support the OP's claim that Kobe couldn't take a foul without yelling to a ref. It was proved wrong. That should have been the end of the thread.

No i support that, that was a common foul back in MJ's day, which takes a physical toll on your body and tends to take energy out of you, throughout the season, you an the rest of the MambaBoys, act like Jordan faced a weak era(other thread), when in fact it was harder to score, fact is they change the rules to benefit perimeter players, which makes the game that much easier for todays stars

And it is fact that Kobe yells....didn't Dan Patrick do a piece on this

[juju151111]

The OP made this thread to say just the opposite and failed spectacularly. Don't try to spin what he did into a positive thing.
I made this thread because people said Mj played in the weak era, and i was showing today is the ***** era.

[KenneBell]

No i support that, that was a common foul back in MJ's day, which takes a physical toll on your body and tends to take energy out of you, throughout the season, you an the rest of the MambaBoys, act like Jordan faced a weak era(other thread), when in fact it was harder to score, fact is they change the rules to benefit perimeter players, which makes the game that much easier for todays stars

And it is fact that Kobe yells....didn't Dan Patrick do a piece on this
Tell me where I said Jordan played in a weaker era.

[Ne 1]

I made this thread because people said Mj played in the weak era, and i was showing today is the ***** era.

He did play in a diluted era.

[Jacks25]

He did play in a diluted era.

+1

[Da_Realist]

I uploaded it but not because of the hit. Well, not only because of the hit. I liked the strip of Dawkins, I loved the speed MJ had blowing down the court and I liked how Mahorn knew he didn't have much of a choice but to knock his ass out of the air. And MJ got up, blew a bubble and went to the line.

It was really the whole sequence I liked. That's why the description says, "Random clip". It's actually one of my favorite MJ games and I plan on uploading a highlight video of it later tonight if I have time.

MJ vs Sixers 1990 Game 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQGYkYXJc7s)

One of my favorite MJ games to watch. With Scottie out attending his father's funeral, MJ led the Bulls to a crucial win in Philadelphia that gave the Bulls a 3-1 lead over the Sixers in the 1990 Eastern Conference Semifinals. Very underrated game. Everything's on display here. Check out how fast he is -- curling around screens to block a shot...rebounding the ball and beating most of the defenders up the court, doubling his man and recovering before his man can get off a shot and darting into the lane for a layup before the defense can react. 45 points, 6 rebounds, 11 assists, 2 steals and a couple of blocks really don't tell the story so I made this video.

Full game --> http://www.youtube.com/user/tjhunt76?feature=mhum#g/c/9D78A9FDF1277011

[donald_trump]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLv2F33snCE

Jordan rules - loads of good examples, like at 1:00 min. Rodman shoves MJ to the ground in WWE style, there was no call at all :facepalm Today player would be ejected for this, or at the very least Flagrant 1.

how about the very next play? he gets free throws despite everyone having their hands straight up.

[Draz]

dam kobe brushed it off haha

[YouCallILose]

5 page thread about jordan getting up and blowing a bubble after a foul that wasn't even that hard...

what a god damn joke

[laronprofit9]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDfJwV6U97U#t=4m01s

Referring to the foul at 4:01 on the video?

[Calabis]

He did play in a diluted era.

Please list the best defenders Kobe has faced, people who actually have guarded him....I'll wait

[PistonsFan#21]

Please list the best defenders Kobe has faced, people who actually have guarded him....I'll wait

Shane Battier, Ron Artest, Raja Bell, Tayshaun Prince, Bruce Bowen, Shawn Marion, Lebron, Wade, Kirilenko, Kirk Hinrich, Tabo Selfalosha, Jason Kidd, Gerald Wallace, Jackson, Afflalo, etc...:confusedshrug:

[IInvented]

Uma......Okay??

[PrimeJohnnyDepp]

Just yesterday I saw Byron Scott being hammered by Sam Perkins,

and Worthy hitting a guy in the face and not being rejected, in some other game.

This thread is anti-Jordan and we'll find you on Google Earth. :violin:

[BallsOut]

Shane Battier, Ron Artest, Raja Bell, Tayshaun Prince, Bruce Bowen, Shawn Marion, Lebron, Wade, Kirilenko, Kirk Hinrich, Tabo Selfalosha, Jason Kidd, Gerald Wallace, Jackson, Afflalo, etc...:confusedshrug:

and Doug Christie, Josh Howard, Ime Udoka, James Posey, Tony Allen, Jamario Moon, Eric Snow...

For the Jordan fans, let's not kid ourselves and say Jordan played against better defenders. He said his hardest defender was Joe Dumars (6'3 195). Kobe was guarded by athletic/long freaks taller and heavier than him most of the time. :oldlol:

[Ne 1]

and Doug Christie, Josh Howard, Ime Udoka, James Posey, Tony Allen, Jamario Moon, Eric Snow...

For the Jordan fans, let's not kid ourselves and say Jordan played against better defenders. He said his hardest defender was Joe Dumars (6'3 195). Kobe was guarded by athletic/long freaks taller and heavier than him most of the time. :oldlol:

Also Ruben Patterson.

Shane Battier has a freaking manual on Kobe's tendencies! That's all you need to know...

[Ne 1]

Please list the best defenders Kobe has faced, people who actually have guarded him....I'll wait

The 90's was a watered down era.

All the expansion teams and the influx of high school kids during the 90's watered down the league.

There were plenty of great players in the 90s but the TEAMS were watered down not the players! adding all those expansion teams (Miami, Charlotte, Minnesota, Orlando ,Toronto and Vancouver) made the league watered down.


There were a lot of great players in the 90's - they were just spread out among more teams! Between 1989 and 1996, the league added 6 teams. That's 72 players that otherwise wouldn't be good enough, now playing.

Ask yourself this: If you removed 1/2 of the teams and held a draft of their players, you'd only be keeping the good ones and getting rid of the bad ones. Each team would get stronger.

What happened in the 90's is the exact opposite. They ADDED teams, and spread out the best players among several teams. That's why it became watered-down

[OldSchoolBBall]

You know, Vince Carter said that Joe Dumars was the toughest defender he ever faced, too - and he faced an old ass Joe D. Guess VC doesn't know anything either. Can't possibly be that Joe D was a world class defender or anything. Nah... :oldlol:

Besides, you don't think we can compile a similar list for Jordan? I mean, I also have to lol @ you listing guys like Udoka, Lebron, Wade, Moon, Snow, Kirilenko, Josh Howard, and some others -- are you kidding me? Stop acting like these guys are great man-to-man defenders. Jordan would have destroyed these guys with impunity. lol @ the thought of Moon/Wallace/Kirilenko staying in front of Jordan. :oldlol:

Here's a partial list for Jordan:

Dumars, Cooper, Eddie Jones, McMillan, Willie Anderson, Sean Elliot, Moncrief, Alvin Robertson, Sprewell, Reggie Lewis, Dennis Johnson, Rodney McCray, John Starks, Paul Pressey, Robert Reid, Majerle, Rex Chapman, Drexler, Bobby Phills, Kendall Gill, Kerry Kittles, Payton, Rodman, Gerald Wilkins, Aaron McKie, Jason Kidd, Jimmy Jackson, Finley

Anyone can make lists.

[The_Yearning]

That wasn't a hard foul lol wtf

[Calabis]

and Doug Christie, Josh Howard, Ime Udoka, James Posey, Tony Allen, Jamario Moon, Eric Snow...

For the Jordan fans, let's not kid ourselves and say Jordan played against better defenders. He said his hardest defender was Joe Dumars (6'3 195). Kobe was guarded by athletic/long freaks taller and heavier than him most of the time. :oldlol:

LMAO that's the list ???? That's the best list you could come up with??? 1 perimeter DPOY his whole career...the same one MJ lit up at age 39

Right here:Jordan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9aU6oURwfo) enough said imo....you guys are comical

Let's not even bring up the bigs that were waiting on him if he went to the hole and got by those guys

Yes the entire top 10 block list he faced

Also length don't mean shit without a handcheck......ask Joe Johnson...also please explain the Kobe struggles against the 6'3 Eric Snow.

[andgar923]

LOL @ the list of Kobe defenders.

Uh.... you Kobe groupies do know that Mj at the age of 40 still played good and even embarrassed them right?

[Calabis]

The 90's was a watered down era.

All the expansion teams and the influx of high school kids during the 90's watered down the league.

There were plenty of great players in the 90s but the TEAMS were watered down not the players! adding all those expansion teams (Miami, Charlotte, Minnesota, Orlando ,Toronto and Vancouver) made the league watered down.


There were a lot of great players in the 90's - they were just spread out among more teams! Between 1989 and 1996, the league added 6 teams. That's 72 players that otherwise wouldn't be good enough, now playing.

Ask yourself this: If you removed 1/2 of the teams and held a draft of their players, you'd only be keeping the good ones and getting rid of the bad ones. Each team would get stronger.

What happened in the 90's is the exact opposite. They ADDED teams, and spread out the best players among several teams. That's why it became watered-down

Watered down, yet you fail to realize the two they more they added and stripped away all the defensive advantages...yet its more competitive today??? LMAO

[Ne 1]

:oldlol: @ hand checking

hand checking wasn't outlawed until what '05? And still today its rarely enforced, if ever.

defensive specialists in today's era >>>

Mj said the best defender he went against was Joe Dumars. 6'3 195 pounds comapared to Jordan 6'6 215 pounds.

[Jacks25]

Jordan at 40 wasn't "dominating" anybody; he was the most inefficient 20 point scorer in history. Prime Jordan would obviously dominate today, but you Jordan stans are ridiculous. Just STFU already.

[BallsOut]

LMAO that's the list ???? That's the best list you could come up with???

Jordan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9aU6oURwfo) enough said imo....you guys are comical

Let's not even bring up the bigs that were waiting on him if he went to the hole and got by those guys

Yes the entire top 10 block list he faced

Also length don't mean shit without a handcheck......ask Joe Johnson...also please explain the Kobe struggles against the 6'3 Eric Snow

I'm sorry but length/athleticism means everything on defense, even without a handcheck. It's harder to score the ball with a hand in your face than when the hand isn't in your face. Those smaller/less athletic defenders that Jordan went against rarely ever were able to put a hand in Jordan's face on jumpshots, because he would just elevate over them with his athletic ability/height advantage.

Let me know when Jordan goes against defenses like this on a consistent basis:

http://www.nba.com/media/rockets/content_fullcircle0403.jpg
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2009/writers/chris_ballard/05/14/kobe/kobe-battier2.jpg

I don't want to hear that physical bullsh1t. Just like how good coached teams win championships over harder working teams, smart pregame scouting defense beats that physical hard hand-check defense any day of the week.

[Ne 1]

Watered down, yet you fail to realize the two they more they added and stripped away all the defensive advantages...yet its more competitive today??? LMAO

90's was the expansion era of basketball. Even Magic, Bird and Dr. J agreed it was a watered down league.

[catch24]

Jamario Moon?

:roll:

[OldSchoolBBall]

The funniest part of Kobe fans' blather is that they actually think a guy like Battier would have a chance in hell of guarding '88-'93 Jordan. :oldlol: Guys like that do okay against Kobe because Kobe isn't nearly as quick as MJ was. The VERY REASON Battier can do his patented "hand in the face" defense is because Kobe CANNOT CREATE SEPARATION consistently on his shot. Grab a clue, trolls.

And it's well known among serious fans and analysts that the '99-'05 era (not "the 90's, which actually varied greatly in quality from the early part of the decade to the latter part) was the worst era in NBA history, save perhaps for the mid-late 70's.

[Ne 1]

I'm sorry but length/athleticism means everything on defense, even without a handcheck. It's harder to score the ball with a hand in your face than when the hand isn't in your face. Those smaller/less athletic defenders that Jordan went against rarely ever were able to put a hand in Jordan's face on jumpshots, because he would just elevate over them with his athletic ability/height advantage.

Let me know when Jordan goes against defenses like this on a consistent basis:
http://www.nba.com/media/rockets/content_fullcircle0403.jpghttp://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2009/writers/chris_ballard/05/14/kobe/kobe-battier2.jpg

I don't want to hear that physical bullsh1t. Just like how good coached teams win championships over harder working teams, smart pregame scouting defense beats that physical hard hand-check defense any day of the week.

co-sign

Intelligent D > Physical D.

Since when is basketball about who the best bruisers are?

Defensive schemes today are far better and more complex than they were 2-3 decades ago.

[Jacks25]

. The VERY REASON Battier can do his patented "hand in the face" defense is because Kobe CANNOT CREATE SEPARATION consistently on his shot.

:roll:

[Calabis]

90's was the expansion era of basketball. Even Magic, Bird and Dr. J agreed it was a watered down league.

So Jordan's dominance in the early to mid 80's is what??? Jordan's rookie year in all star game, Bird stated, "I thought Moses Malone was the toughest opponent I have faced, no longer... that honor now belongs to Michael Jordan" the following year he called him "God is basketball shoes"

Also still waiting for you to dispute the list.....its on my first response, click on MJ's name.....I'll wait for the excuses to pile on.

[Calabis]

:roll:

What's so funny, that's mostly true, which is why Kobe is such a amazing shot maker....his ability to make those ridiculous shots, are the reason people don't notice this....when he first started this wasn't a issue

[Ne 1]

The funniest part of Kobe fans' blather is that they actually think a guy like Battier would have a chance in hell of guarding '88-'93 Jordan. :oldlol:

'88-'93 Jordan would have went like 3-26 from the field if he had to go against Battier.

[Ne 1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p57WjbKSoJ0

[Jacks25]

What's so funny, that's mostly true, which is why Kobe is such a amazing shot maker....his ability to make those ridiculous shots, are the reason people don't notice this....when he first started this wasn't a issue

It isn't true at all. In fact, it's false to the point of comedy. Kobe's biggest strength, the reason he's been dominant for so long, is his ability to create his own shot and garner separation. Besides, Bryant has consistently torched Battier over his career.

[PHILA]

The funniest part of Kobe fans' blather is that they actually think a guy like Battier would have a chance in hell of guarding '88-'93 Jordan. :oldlol: Guys like that do okay against Kobe because Kobe isn't nearly as quick as MJ was. The VERY REASON Battier can do his patented "hand in the face" defense is because Kobe CANNOT CREATE SEPARATION consistently on his shot. Grab a clue, trolls.

I'm sure a younger Bryant would destroy Shane as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c421DmlFlFA


Great role player to have on your team, but the way he is discussed by some you'd think he was a rich mans Bobby Jones type.

[Calabis]

It isn't true at all. In fact, it's false to the point of comedy. Kobe's biggest strength, the reason he's been dominant for so long, is his ability to create his own shot and garner separation. Besides, Bryant has consistently torched Battier over his career.

Battier is now a better Defender than Rodman......Rodman couldn't chk MJ, but weak ass 2x 2nd team defense Shane Battier(more like Dan Majerle)

http://hoopsapedia.webs.com/handchecking%205.jpg
All you need is a step today, because without handchecking, you can't push that guy out

Sorry this wasn't meant for you, meant for NE1

[Calabis]

I'm sure a younger Bryant would destroy Shane as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c421DmlFlFA


Great role player to have on your team, but the way he is discussed by some you'd think he was a rich mans Bobby Jones type.

I agree, Bryant no longer possesses that young speed he once had, he has to work twice as hard to get off his jumper now that father time has kicked in

[Calabis]

It isn't true at all. In fact, it's false to the point of comedy. Kobe's biggest strength, the reason he's been dominant for so long, is his ability to create his own shot and garner separation. Besides, Bryant has consistently torched Battier over his career.

Because Battier is overrated, this MF'er ain't better than Bowen

[Jacks25]

I'm sure a younger Bryant would destroy Shane as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c421DmlFlFA


Great role player to have on your team, but the way he is discussed by some you'd think he was a rich mans Bobby Jones type.

+100. Battier is a solid defender and all but he's become massively overrated.

[andgar923]

Also Ruben Patterson.

Shane Battier has a freaking manual on Kobe's tendencies! That's all you need to know...

This same Ruben Patterson?
http://www.youtube.com/user/hoopsencyclopedia#p/u/13/c13gfGtUyL8

or howabout Artest?
http://www.youtube.com/user/hoopsencyclopedia#p/u/0/CV52IrBoj90

Or Kidd who is usually regarded as one of the best defenders? and Richard Jefferson who is known as a defensive stopper?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bSZSwWqum8

or perhaps even Kobe, the multiple NBA All Defensive Team 1st Team?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC2d3nEO0Lk&feature=related

Or KG?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMd1m-OOWH0&feature=related

Or Posey? Mobley?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhPsuzUZ69U

I can post more if you Kobe stans want.

[Jacks25]

lol youtube

[andgar923]

lol youtube

LOl @ Kobe fans

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fp__LVQvC7M&feature=related

[Jacks25]

lol more youtube.

[RazorBaLade]

LOl @ Kobe fans

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fp__LVQvC7M&feature=related

damn, kobe scored TWICE that

[Jacks25]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-2Hd-Ly2CQ

Hey, this proves Kobe> Jordan. :oldlol:

[Willkill24]

Lol @ Jordan jockers being stuck in the 90's

[juju151111]

This same Ruben Patterson?
http://www.youtube.com/user/hoopsencyclopedia#p/u/13/c13gfGtUyL8

or howabout Artest?
http://www.youtube.com/user/hoopsencyclopedia#p/u/0/CV52IrBoj90

Or Kidd who is usually regarded as one of the best defenders? and Richard Jefferson who is known as a defensive stopper?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bSZSwWqum8

or perhaps even Kobe, the multiple NBA All Defensive Team 1st Team?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC2d3nEO0Lk&feature=related

Or KG?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMd1m-OOWH0&feature=related

Or Posey? Mobley?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhPsuzUZ69U

I can post more if you Kobe stans want.
Bruce Bowen said Mj was the toughest he ever guarded and Bruce Bowen only faced Mj at 33-35 years old.:lol :lol He faced Prime Kobe 03-08 and said old Mj is better:lol :lol Ron artest(DPOTY) says MJ is the Goat and was shitting on him in the offseason. We all know one thing about Ron artest. He might be crazy, but he tells the truth and is real. It's funny how all these so called Goat 00s defenders 6'6 or above players can't guard out of his prime Mj with knee problems:facepalm, but they can surposly guard a 1990 MJ.

http://playunderreview.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/michael-jordan-cigar.jpg

[andgar923]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-2Hd-Ly2CQ

Hey, this proves Kobe> Jordan. :oldlol:

MJ wasn't guarding him.

And to the person that stated "Lol @ Jordan jockers being stuck in the 90's"

I posted vids of MJ playing in THIS ERA, way past his prime.

[Ne 1]

Jordan faced shorter defenders than what players like Lebron and Kobe see today. Best defenders on Jordan are generally considered to be:


Starks: 6''2
Dumars: 6''3
Payton 6''4

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii250/harty413/9495CharlotteMuggsyBoguesDefence.jpg

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/4107/111111111111111111.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_OR1l8Wilj1M/SIlphcbPbjI/AAAAAAAABpg/em1Ol-NTo7s/s400/jordan-drexler2.jpg

He was able to back his shorter defender in the post and take advantage of that.

Today almost every team has a 6''8 or 6''9 swing man.
Here are some real ballers, many who are elite defenders and 20+ ppg scorers - these are the guys Kobe and Lebron face:

Kevin Durant 6''9
Lebron 6''9 (260 lbs)
AK47 6''9
J. Wright 6''9
T.Prince 6''9
A.Jamison 6'9
D.Granger 6''9
L.Deng 6''9
S. Battier 6''8
W.Chandler 6''8
B.Outlaw6''8
S.Marion 6''8
P. Pierce: 6''8
J. Posey 6''8
J.Johnson: 6''8
A. Harrington: 6''8
K.Martin 6''8
S.Jackson 6''8
J. Hayes 6''8
A. Iguadala 6'8
Carmelo 6''8
J. Green 6''8
G. Wallace 6''8
B. Bowen 6''7
R. Artest: 6''7 (260 lbs)

Players are stronger and taller today- no doubt about it. Everything get's better with time.


You have defensive specialists today like Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest, Shane Battier, Thabo Sefolosha etc. who are supposed to be ''Kobe-stoppers''.

During Jordan's era the defensive specialists were guys like John Starks. The idea of Starks being a Jordan stopper is ridiculous . When you give up 4 inches and 30 pounds to someone who you'll guard in single coverage (for most the game) in the mid-range perimeter area, then those physical limitations will be almost impossible to overcome.



The 90s defense was 1 on 1 vs. shorter midget defenders in the post all day long on isolations.

Today no body can even post up anymore - Duncan, KG, Shaq, Kobe they are all doubled after 1 or 2 dribbles at the most.

http://alltalksports.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/jordans-game-winner-over-ehlo.jpg

:oldlol: Jordan's career high is 69 in double over time againt a slow, weak, un-athletic white guy named Craig Ehlo and he thinks he could score 100 today.

[Ne 1]

MJ wasn't guarding him.

And to the person that stated "Lol @ Jordan jockers being stuck in the 90's"

I posted vids of MJ playing in THIS ERA, way past his prime.


Even worse. Just tells you that MJ was a scared b*tch.

He knew Kobe was gonna lite him up and was afraid to guard so he had to put Jerry Stackhouse on him. That was MJ his whole career though, always had to hide behind Pippen and let him do all the dirty work and play D.

[andgar923]

Jordan faced shorter defenders than what players like Lebron and Kobe see today. Best defenders on Jordan are generally considered to be:


Starks: 6''2
Dumars: 6''3
Payton 6''4

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii250/harty413/9495CharlotteMuggsyBoguesDefence.jpg

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/4107/111111111111111111.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_OR1l8Wilj1M/SIlphcbPbjI/AAAAAAAABpg/em1Ol-NTo7s/s400/jordan-drexler2.jpg

He was able to back his shorter defender in the post and take advantage of that.

Today almost every team has a 6''8 or 6''9 swing man.
Here are some real ballers, many who are elite defenders and 20+ ppg scorers - these are the guys Kobe and Lebron face:

Kevin Durant 6''9
Lebron 6''9 (260 lbs)
AK47 6''9
J. Wright 6''9
T.Prince 6''9
A.Jamison 6'9
D.Granger 6''9
L.Deng 6''9
S. Battier 6''8
W.Chandler 6''8
B.Outlaw6''8
S.Marion 6''8
P. Pierce: 6''8
J. Posey 6''8
J.Johnson: 6''8
A. Harrington: 6''8
K.Martin 6''8
S.Jackson 6''8
J. Hayes 6''8
A. Iguadala 6'8
Carmelo 6''8
J. Green 6''8
G. Wallace 6''8
B. Bowen 6''7
R. Artest: 6''7 (260 lbs)

Players are stronger and taller today- no doubt about it. Everything get's better with time.


You have defensive specialists today like Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest, Shane Battier, Thabo Sefolosha etc. who are supposed to be ''Kobe-stoppers''.

During Jordan's era the defensive specialists were guys like John Starks. The idea of Starks being a Jordan stopper is ridiculous . When you give up 4 inches and 30 pounds to someone who you'll guard in single coverage (for most the game) in the mid-range perimeter area, then those physical limitations will be almost impossible to overcome.



The 90s defense was 1 on 1 vs. shorter midget defenders in the post all day long on isolations.

Today no body can even post up anymore - Duncan, KG, Shaq, Kobe they are all doubled after 1 or 2 dribbles at the most.

http://alltalksports.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/jordans-game-winner-over-ehlo.jpg

:oldlol: Jordan's career high is 69 in double over time againt a slow, weak, un-athletic white guy named Craig Ehlo and he thinks he could score 100 today.

KPAH?

How many times do you have to get disproven?

Not even your fellow Kobe stans make this argument anymore.

And how do you explain the vids that I posted?

Even Kobe fans are sick of your delusional psychotic rants. And even Kobe himself issued a statement at your ilk.

[juju151111]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-2Hd-Ly2CQ

Hey, this proves Kobe> Jordan. :oldlol:
Mj didn't guard him and it's just funny how a weak era player like MjJ can show up ruben,Battier,KG,artest etc........ at a advance age. Arn't all those players like 6'6 and above??? I thought Mj can't beat anyone over 6'3, but he does it has a old man with no knees.:facepalm

[branslowski]

:facepalm PPl still use Youtube vids to "try" and win debates....


"Nate Robinson was greatest shotblocker ever! Don't agree? Here's a vid of him blocking Yao Ming, Owned you Hakeem stans!"




:facepalm


Your skills will be your skills...At age 35 or 40....If you keep your work ethic up, you don't need epic athletic ability to still be great...What Jordan is the GOAT...Because he had 1 good game against some great defenders, does not lessin the great defense these guy's play.


I mean, do ppl here seriously have to dickride the 90's? Act as if every good player playing in that era, would be super man times 3 in this one?...

Holyshit this forum...:facepalm

[Ne 1]

Lol @ Jordan jockers being stuck in the 90's

Jordan Jockers are a sad lot. They are all stuck in the past because their hero from their childhood retired 9 years ago and hasn't played a meaningful game in 13 years.

All they have left is memories of growing up watching Space Jam and now they all hate on today's league like a bunch of bitter old farts seeing life through their nostalgia glasses. Talking about ''man the 90's were sooo great! and everything nowadays sucks! :cry:''

Jordan fans remind of the old dudes ''back in my day we had to walk to school both ways in 30ft of snow barefoot'' ''you kids have it easy today'' :roll:

[branslowski]

:facepalm Jordan Hanes wearers continue to argue with idiotic Kobe stans who think Kobe>>Jordan....Why?....Oh, because you wanna here yourself text, and type up Jordan numbers or link down some hot Jordan vids...

[andgar923]

:facepalm PPl still use Youtube vids to "try" and win debates....



And how exactly is one supposed to get a point across to some of these idiots?

[ImmortalD24]

:facepalm Jordan Hanes wearers continue to argue with idiotic Kobe stans who think Kobe>>Jordan....Why?....Oh, because you wanna here yourself text, and type up Jordan numbers or link down some hot Jordan vids... Ditto.

[Jacks25]

:facepalm Jordan Hanes wearers continue to argue with idiotic Kobe stans who think Kobe>>Jordan....Why?....Oh, because you wanna here yourself text, and type up Jordan numbers or link down some hot Jordan vids...

What's funny is that they know damn well they're being trolled and yet still insist on arguing with people who clearly aren't going change their minds. They're so protective of MJ, so sensitive to any criticism, that they'll going to waste hours arguing with trolls. Shit is pathetic and hilarious at the same time.

[andgar923]

What's funny is that they know damn well they're being trolled and yet still insist on arguing with people who clearly aren't going change their minds. They're so protective of MJ, so sensitive to any criticism, that they'll going to waste hours arguing with trolls. Shit is pathetic and hilarious at the same time.

Or perhaps I got time to kill?

And what does that say about YOU and Brans that are always in these threads?

Brans loves to complain yet he's always in the threads complaining.

[ImmortalD24]

Title: Michael Jordan does not need you (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3364983&postcount=1).

Hes a 10 time scoring champ, 6 time MVP, 6 time champ, DPOY, ROY, all star, and very arguably the best player who ever played.

And everybody...everywhere...knows it.

The people who hate him the most think hes top 6-8 all time. Oh my god what an insult. I mean...someone thinks that a guy with 6 titles, 6 MVPs, 38 thousand points, and a career that damn near went from Bill Russell to Shaq deserves the #1 spot. How dare they...

We are talking about the most well covered man in all of american sports. And you have people who still feel it needed...to come and tell everyone he was great.

We all know he got to the basket like nothing was in his way. We know he was clutch. We know he played defense. We hear it was underrated and the overlooked bit of his game every 3 days....despite the fact that his defense is probably talked about more than any other retired players entire game. **** most of us can remember the cheesy song that played in the background of Come Fly with me and His Airness when his defense was discussed and he was blocking Ewing in slow motion.

So some kid somewhere thinks Kobe or Lebron are better So...****ing...what? If you really remember that time you know as well as I do that a few people thought others were the best even then. Not many. But not many think Kobe is better either. I heard Barkley called the best in the NBA in the early 90s. Same for Hakeem and Drob. I heard Bird called the best in seasons that people use to support Jordan being the GOAT. I very very clearly remember Hakeem still being called the best in the world in 96. If people didnt even agree then why should we expect current fans not to rep their players a bit? Must it be unanimous? Nothing in sports is unanimous in the eyes of sports fans.

In 2000 shaq put up 30/14 led the league in blocks and shot 58% on a 67 win team. And he wasnt the unanimous MVP.

In 1967 wilt put up 24/24, led the NBA in assists, shot 68% from the field won a then record 68 games and the title....and 25 people didnt vote him the MVP.

Babe Ruth wasnt even a unanimous selection to the hall of fame.

Babe ****ing Ruth. He wasnt even top 10 in highest percentages on the voting.

But everyone on earth must agree that Jordan is better than "****" and is better by such a margin it is laughable to discuss it? It has to be unanimous?

And most who may kinda try to bring him down dont even think anyone now is as good as Jordan. Just that its a joke how Jordan fans hate on modern swingmen.

And in a way it is. Because when you really think about it? The people always propping Jordan up? Who are they talking to? Who are you trying to convince?

Either you are talking to people like you who remember him...know how good he was...built that opinion over years and isnt changing it because of you...or youre talking to kids/young adults who dont remember prime Jordan and trying to get them to change their opinions based on the very things people like us often look down on kids for forming opinions on. Reputation, highlights, and stats.

And the bad thing is...when it comes to reputation, highlights, and stats....nobody in basketball history is as known as Jordan. All we do is present new highlights....the same numbers...and...expect it to what? What is it supposed to do other than be "neat"?

Really trying to teach the youth? Get their eyes to open to an era they missed?

Talk about Rolando Blackman. Flex that mighty intellect and flawless recollection of the 80s and tell some people about the Greyhound. Or Jeff Malone. You know who Jordan defended in the second quarter of game 3 of the 1992 ECF. Fine. What about Ken Norman? Terry Cummings? Mark Price and Brad Daugherty pick and roll?

If the object is to educate and give people a better insight into a time they didnt get to see....why cover the most well known American athlete of all time? A man who has literally thousands of obsessed fans stuffing every tiny facet of his game down the throats of anyone willing to listen? What do you teach by covering ground thousands of others are busy covering night and day?

Dont get me wrong. I love a good "jordan destroys the Pacers" clip from 1987 too. But with all that was basketball in that time...why must he get all the love and attention? Sure its exciting to see MJ jump over Tree rollins. Wasnt it also great to see Doc Rivers on the break? Gerald Wilkins with a smooth spin and finish? Do I really expect people to throw the same attention on minor stars as Jordan? No. But if the idea is this amazing bygone era and the fact that its greatness means Jordan was great...why only show the other players getting slaughtered by him?

If the point is "80s basketball was strong" as it often is in a way to support Jordans greatness...why reduce the era to people looking shocked and appalled as Jordan rests his nuts on their eyebrow?

Michael Jordan has been discussed so much people who never even saw him in his prime can recite his stats and awards better than their own social security numbers.

What does anyone get out of making the case for Jordan?

The only people who dont think hes the GOAt think hes one of them.

Is Jordan...this man most of us never met...so important that people are going to keep arguing points that were already old 10 years ago forever? I wont be suprised if in 2044 people areo n ISH posting "But Jordan is a 10 time all D player! ____ only made 2" as if the person they are saying it to didnt know that already.

As I type and as you read(though I suppose you arent reading it as I type it....) there is someone somewhere scanning hours of footage from 1989 with a little notepad file open making notes on what to get at which exact second. Probably building a "Jordan....post defense" video for youtube so other Jordan fanatics can later point to it as a "So there!".

Yes...I...a person who has made over 200 videos am complaining about someone putting too much effort into the same thing. Key difference being...ive done hundreds on hundreds of players. Make me better? Course not. But im choosing to use it as a shield for my own lameness.

I also say it to help make my final point.

Maybe if some of you others with endless footage and real first hand knowledge of the 80s anxd 90s focused on the other players a bit...you wouldnt need to make a 70 minute long Jordan video to convince some kid how good Jordan would be today.

If that kid could see Mark Eaton putting in work hed never say Jordan didnt face great defenders. If he knew what Sidney Moncrief could do we wouldnt hear talk of zones that would shut Jordan down.

If you insist on loving Jordan then for the love of god(...Jordan) can we do it by giving credit and attention to someone other than him, Larry Bird, Barkley, Hakeem, and Magic?

I watched every game the man played in till 1992 and at least 50 games a year from then on. I had the posters, the games(I can still do the 360 and lean in dunk on Bird vs Jordan), I saw space jam, and when he returned on the wizards and went off in the 3rd vs the Nets in preseason....I rewinded the part where he made a jumper and fell into the bench so many times the tape is near unwatchable now. I get what it is to love Michael Jordan. I loved him before you did unless you were a north carolina fan.

But gotdamn people. Do we really need to be doing lines of ground up Air Jordan 5s off of our framed Come Fly with Me promotional posters?

Jordan being the GOAT does not have to be unanimous evein if its true. You know what has to be unanimous? Chipotle burritos are godly. NBA 2k is better than Live. Season 4 of the wire is the best season of any show ever...that wasnt the Simpsons in its prime. Hidden Valley ranch is the one true ranch.

Michael Jordan being better than everyone else is not something that has to be unanimous. And if it is? Any reason used to support it has already been discussed for the last 10 years.

Go make a topic on Dale Ellis and stop stomping on that dead horse.





And yes im aware of the hypocrisy of making a longass post full of redundancies while pleading with people to be fresh and stop repeating themselves. So no need to point that out.

[Jacks25]

Or perhaps I got time to kill?

And what does that say about YOU and Brans that are always in these threads?

Brans loves to complain yet he's always in the threads complaining.

I'm sure you can find something better to do with your down time...

As for me...I try not to get involved in these threads, but seeing Jordan fans all riled up can get pretty entertaining. :D

[branslowski]

And how exactly is one supposed to get a point across to some of these idiots?


Just ignore them dude....Holyshit...We all know Jordan is great...Every non dickhead knows Jordan is GOAT, if not GOAT he's 2nd to Kareem (in some ppl's eyes)...

To be honest...I don't really know what you guy's are fully arguing over...Didn't go back and read thread...So I don't know if your trying to diminish Perimeter defenders of today (which would be dumb, especially if your using a vid to somehow prove this point, as if someone couldn't use a bias vid to prove their point).....Or...If your trying to defend the fact that Jordan would wreck today's league....I'm 100% sure Jordan would be BY FAR the best player in the game if he played today...If he's on a team like the Heat..He avg's 28ppg 8reb 8ast 55%fg.....If he's on a 06' Lakers or 06' Cavs type team....Dude avg's 38-40ppg 6reb 5ast 52%fg.....

Point is...Once you start debating with bias LIKE vids...You'll usually get a responce vid of a no named cat crossing Jordan up back in the 80's...As "evidence" that Jordan was a shitty defender....It happens...Jordans skills killed Artest...It happens...Doesn't mean these players aren't All-Time great defenders...Im sure sub par players have had nice nights against Pippen and Jordan...I've actually seen vid of games of Jordan getting cooked on defense..(fatal posted them)...Even having ended the game with a high amount of points....That still would not drive me to diminish Jordan's great defense.

And last....You really don't have to debate against these trolls dude...Really...I mean, I'm starting to belive that most of you do it just as an excuse to try and bash Kobe....

Your a better poster than this bro...just sayin.

[andgar923]

I'm sure you can find something better to do with your down time...

As for me...I try not to get involved in these threads, but seeing Jordan fans all riled up can get pretty entertaining. :D

You're on here just as much as I am dude. And ever heard of 'multi tasking'?

YOu try not to get involved, but you always do.

[Jacks25]

You're on here just as much as I am dude. And ever heard of 'multi tasking'?

YOu try not to get involved, but you always do.

No, I'm not on here as much as you.

And no, I tend to stay out of these threads. Even when I'm "involved" it's usually to correct some posters misinformation. It's not like I'm one of those guys with the Kobe>Jordan arguments.

But I'm not going to argue with you over something so silly...

Have a nice day.

[PrimeJohnnyDepp]

Jordan Jockers are a sad lot. They are all stuck in the past because their hero from their childhood retired 9 years ago and hasn't played a meaningful game in 13 years.

All they have left is memories of growing up watching Space Jam and now they all hate on today's league like a bunch of bitter old farts seeing life through their nostalgia glasses. Talking about ''man the 90's were sooo great! and everything nowadays sucks! :cry:''

Jordan fans remind of the old dudes ''back in my day we had to walk to school both ways in 30ft of snow barefoot'' ''you kids have it easy today'' :roll:

Hey guy. Game had charisma back then. There are still Dream Team graffitis on some walls. Guess how many Redeem Team grafittis were there.

You don't know how great it was to play NBA Live 98 or 2000 after playing Lakers vs. Celtics 89 till then, getting a proper PC.

Humanity got lost from the game, journalism is gone and you have only sensationalism. Business was better when it wasn't all about business. Who in today's league is intelligent ? Oh right, intelligent is trying to be white. Chris Bosh is intelligent, and he's totally a lonely guy for it.

Men were of different breed, and Kobe to this day is still a child. If only he'd grow up AS A PERSON not as a player, he'd be a better player. As long as he has his stats. League sold all objectivity to marketing, Kobe being on the first defensive team last year.. Back in the day, legacies were made, not manufactured. It just happened, and was amazing to watch. This is sometimes just unbearable to watch, this chavtastic bullshit.

Just give the Lakers another three-peat. Give Kobe his sixth title so this sick replication is complete.


Oh, and past players were real people with real skill. These new people just suck at being them. No REAL feeling for the game. We'll see this season if kids went through enough trauma to be men. :violin:

[branslowski]

Or perhaps I got time to kill?

And what does that say about YOU and Brans that are always in these threads?

Brans loves to complain yet he's always in the threads complaining.


Nah, not complaining as much as Iam just trying to make the forum better...Trying to explain to ppl that they don't need to waste their time on idiots...Trying to help out...I see trolls bashing Kobe non stop lately...I may argue with them to start off, but once I realize that their opinion will not change, I move on. I just mock them with a 1 liner if I feel like it....

You complete their troll work when you type up full paragraphs, search for links of youtube vids, search for bball reference stats, and go over the same shit that you do over and over...

I just notice some of you like to go on and on because it gives you a chance to flaunt Jordan stats that you swear no one else has seen before....Pretty sure everyone here knows Jordan's stats like the holy bible by now.

[andgar923]

Just ignore them dude....Holyshit...We all know Jordan is great...Every non dickhead knows Jordan is GOAT, if not GOAT he's 2nd to Kareem (in some ppl's eyes)...

To be honest...I don't really know what you guy's are fully arguing over...Didn't go back and read thread...So I don't know if your trying to diminish Perimeter defenders of today (which would be dumb, especially if your using a vid to somehow prove this point, as if someone couldn't use a bias vid to prove their point).....Or...If your trying to defend the fact that Jordan would wreck today's league....I'm 100% sure Jordan would be BY FAR the best player in the game if he played today...If he's on a team like the Heat..He avg's 28ppg 8reb 8ast 55%fg.....If he's on a 06' Lakers or 06' Cavs type team....Dude avg's 38-40ppg 6reb 5ast 52%fg.....

Point is...Once you start debating with bias LIKE vids...You'll usually get a responce vid of a no named cat crossing Jordan up back in the 80's...As "evidence" that Jordan was a shitty defender....It happens...Jordans skills killed Artest...It happens...Doesn't mean these players aren't All-Time great defenders...Im sure sub par players have had nice nights against Pippen and Jordan...I've actually seen vid of games of Jordan getting cooked on defense..(fatal posted them)...Even having ended the game with a high amount of points....That still would not drive me to diminish Jordan's great defense.

And last....You really don't have to debate against these trolls dude...Really...I mean, I'm starting to belive that most of you do it just as an excuse to try and bash Kobe....

Your a better poster than this bro...just sayin.

I do it cause I get bored... is that a crime?

I can (and have) ignored it/them.... but at times it entertains me and occupies me for a bit.

I know that not everybody thinks like these idiots, but guess what I've found out?

There's tons of people that do.

What I and I'm assuming most of us do, is shine a light on the bs, what's wrong with that?

I know for a fact of a few young cats that have admitted to believing all of the anti Jordan and pro Kobe stuff spewed, but thanks to some of the vids and discussions got to know the other side and eventually learn the truth. Is it wrong for me (us) to shine a light on the truth and teach some of the youngsters along the way?

Hell... I'm even willing to bet that you yourself have changed your point of view to some extent thanks to some of the discussions here and some of the vids.

And I like most of us (Jordan 'Hanes' wearers.... really? couldn't think of anything else? :rolleyes: ) don't hate Kobe, but hate the hype around him.

Most of us have stated that he IS amongst the top players of all time, and that he's amongst the best playing today (top 5). Many of us have consistently defended Kobe against Bron (skills wise) and plenty of us list him as a top 15 player of all time (some higher).

That isn't hate.

It is however, putting things into their proper perspective and cutting through the hype, which just so happens to coincide with correcting the Kobe-ites (who even Kobe himself detests I'm sure).

[branslowski]

OK Andgar...I see where your coming from.

And I admit...The only reason I started using "Facts" (Accolades, stats, exc) in my arguments is because of guy's like yourself, (even Bruce's moronic at times ass), and other ppl I've met on youtube and various online sites. I used to have Kobe in my top 2 without doing any research...I started watching some old games and looking up stats just so I could use perspective....I Also have a long wall of Kobe "FACTS" that has him in the top 10...(Shit, if I wanted to, I could prove how he's actually better than Bird)...So I understand where your coming from, I really do.


But, at the sametime, you also argue with TROLLS who will not ever change their opinions...Meaning on opinions of "Kobe>>Jordan, 81>>69 nuff said"....Some of the ppl you are debating with, were permantly brainwashed by Bortz..:lol


And...Jordan hanes wearers, Kobe stans...All same shit.

[andgar923]

OK Andgar...I see where your coming from.

And I admit...The only reason I started using "Facts" (Accolades, stats, exc) in my arguments is because of guy's like yourself, (even Bruce's moronic at times ass), and other ppl I've met on youtube and various online sites. I used to have Kobe in my top 2 without doing any research...I started watching some old games and looking up stats just so I could use perspective....I Also have a long wall of Kobe "FACTS" that has him in the top 10...(Shit, if I wanted to, I could prove how he's actually better than Bird)...So I understand where your coming from, I really do.


But, at the sametime, you also argue with TROLLS who will not ever change their opinions...Meaning on opinions of "Kobe>>Jordan, 81>>69 nuff said"....Some of the ppl you are debating with, were permantly brainwashed by Bortz..:lol


And...Jordan hanes wearers, Kobe stans...All same shit.

LIke I mentioned.... I get bored, and I guess debating is a part of many of us all here on the interwebs.

Whether we argue about hip hop, basketball, politics, religion, entertainment etc.etc. its something about us no matter who we do it against that makes us do it.

its part of our personality and has been going on since the beginning of time.

Aristotle used to argue about society, politics and theatre in the public square. These debates used to draw large gatherings in what is akin to a 'forum'.

And I agree.... stats can be posted to prove anything and everything, thus the long debates. So that's why I'd just rather post vids, since we all know that stats at times can be very misleading (not that vids can't be).

But even some MJ fans believe MJ sucked as a Wiz.... are they stupid?

MJ was still good as a Wiz... hell... he was great under the circumstances and taking everything into consideration.

[OldSchoolBBall]

lol @ these clowns always talking about the same shit, smaller defender etc. Ask yourself WHY teams that ALREADY HAD guys in the 6'7"-6'8" range CHOSE to go with smaller defenders on Jordan more often than not? Why did Dumars do more time on MJ than Rodman? Why did Robertson do more time on MJ than Pressey? Why did Starks do more time on MJ than Wilkins? Why did the Suns try KJ on Jordan in the '93 Finals instead of super athletic 6'8" Richard Dumas?

When you can answer that, you may actually be worth talking to. Guys in that size range existed back then. Coaches realized none of them could stay in front of MJ. Nothing would change today -- there's no player 6'6" or better who has any chance of staying in front of a 25-29 year old Jordan consistently.

[Da_Realist]

lol @ these clowns always talking about the same shit, smaller defender etc. Ask yourself WHY teams that ALREADY HAD guys in the 6'7"-6'8" range CHOSE to go with smaller defenders on Jordan more often than not? Why did Dumars do more time on MJ than Rodman? Why did Robertson do more time on MJ than Pressey? Why did Starks do more time on MJ than Wilkins? Why did the Suns try KJ on Jordan in the '93 Finals instead of super athletic 6'8" Richard Dumas?

When you can answer that, you may actually be worth talking to. Guys in that size range existed back then. Coaches realized none of them could stay in front of MJ. Nothing would change today -- there's no player 6'6" or better who has any chance of staying in front of a 25-29 year old Jordan consistently.

Right. Kobe never had the blazing speed MJ had. Battier, Bowen or whoever wouldn't need to create a "manual" on how to defend Jordan because they wouldn't be able to keep him in front of them. Kobe's game is a less athletic version of late 90's Jordan. Not only that, but stamina is another factor. Not only could defenders not keep MJ in front of them, they couldn't rest either because the guy never stopped attacking. He was relentless and wore down defenders over the course of the game.

[Jacks25]

^:oldlol:
Battier, Bowen, or whoever were all torched by Kobe. Kobe's 2008 WCF vs Bowen: 29/5/5/2 on 54% FG. Only teams can contain him. Clowns. :facepalm

[eltonrosas]

Right, cuz that's exactly what Kobe did when Bell clotheslined him right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V8ZukXsWmk

Not even the same thing, clothes-lined while dribbling doesn't equal being hit full body weight while up in the air.

Very little chance of injury and doesn't hurt as much to be clothes-lined.(pisses you off, but doesn't really injure you)

Jordan however didn't even have to acknowledge the player and was fouled very hard in mid air.

[AI3Anthony]

this was thread worthy? lol