I'm being billed for over $5,000 for a broken hand surgery, ANY ADVICE?

[enayes]

I broke a bone in my hand earlier this year and had surgery on it in June. I was in college at the time, so my mom called our insurance agency to make sure it would be covered. They told us that the surgery would be covered. Now I am receiving bills for over $5000 from the hospital. We have appealed the bill and called over a dozen times without getting anywhere. Any advice on what I should do?

[pete's montreux]

Are you calling the hospital or your insurance company? Did you just ask if it would be covered, or did you get something in writing that it would be covered?

[the GIBBET]

Unless it was really broken somethin fierce, you shoulda just let it heal on its own.

People broke bones for millenniums before there was surgery, and they did not become permanent cripples.

Bruises, breaks, and tears will heal. Doctors sell you surgeries because you don't know any better. You think you simply HAVE to have surgery, that's your only choice to get better. They make a killing off it.

If an internal organ stops functioning, have surgery. If you break a bone, don't.

[pete's montreux]

Unless it was really broken somethin fierce, you shoulda just let it heal on its own.

People broke bones for millenniums before there was surgery, and they did not become permanent cripples.

Bruises, breaks, and tears will heal. Doctors sell you surgeries because you don't know any better. You think you simply HAVE to have surgery, that's your only choice to get better.

If an internal organ stops functioning, have surgery. If you break a bone, don't.

and this concludes your starface medical tip of the day

[Poodle]

who is your insurance carrier? theres tons of shady insurance carriers out there, and even tricky policies that aren't full coverage insurance. free market insurance is so f'd up because of shit like this.

anyways i'd be speaking directly to the insurance carrier, double checking your policy, making sure the last payment was made, etc.

[the GIBBET]

and this concludes your starface medical tip of the day


says the guy who's gonna need all sorts of amputations and operations when his diabetes catches up to him. hopefully you won't have insurance because then everyone is going to collectively get stuck with paying for your morbid obesity, but I'm sure you will have insurance since you can afford all that food.

[JayGuevara]

You're covered under your parents insurance? Does your dad/mom/whoever have the insurance policy through their work? Cuz sometimes those family insurance deals through work are kinda bogus. Try and get a copy of the policy or whatever to prove you're on it and that it should've been covered. You may have to get a lawyer and take it to court.

If for some reason, you're not covered, and you can't pay it, you'll have to try and work out some kinda payment plan. Or look into one of those relief things you can apply for. I think a girl I know did that a while ago, I'll ask her what exactly she did with it.

[Poodle]

Unless it was really broken somethin fierce, you shoulda just let it heal on its own.

People broke bones for millenniums before there was surgery, and they did not become permanent cripples.

Bruises, breaks, and tears will heal. Doctors sell you surgeries because you don't know any better. You think you simply HAVE to have surgery, that's your only choice to get better. They make a killing off it.

If an internal organ stops functioning, have surgery. If you break a bone, don't.


how about i break your face w/ my hand and u just let it heal on its own fgt. probably wouldn't look much different than the deformed mug you wear now that everyone clowns. ugly mother****a :violin:

[the GIBBET]

how about i break your face w/ my hand and u just let it heal on its own fgt. probably wouldn't look much different than the deformed mug you wear now that everyone clowns. ugly mother****a :violin:


my god you are corny as shit, and completely retarded.

[pete's montreux]

says the guy who's gonna need all sorts of amputations and operations when his diabetes catches up to him. hopefully you won't have insurance because then everyone is going to collectively get stuck with paying for your morbid obesity, but I'm sure you will have insurance since you can afford all that food.

now you've gone too far

how will i recover from this savage e-beating?

[Styles p]

don't pay it.

[Poodle]

my god you are corny as shit, and completely retarded.


thats 6 times now you've used the same insult at me. sad :facepalm

[the GIBBET]

now you've gone too far

how will i recover from this savage e-beating?


smart money says with a truckload of comfort food.

[the GIBBET]

thats 6 times now you've used the same insult at me. sad :facepalm


smokee, seriously, you are the most retarded poster on this website. it has been voted on unanimously.

[pete's montreux]

smart money says with a truckload of comfort food.

my one vice is dr. pepper and i just picked up a 24 pack

mmmmm dr pepper arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Poodle]

smart money says with a truckload of comfort food.


terrible :facepalm

[Poodle]

smokee, seriously, you are the most retarded poster on this website. it has been voted on unanimously.


7 times...

:facepalm

[bagelred]

I broke a bone in my hand earlier this year and had surgery on it in June. I was in college at the time, so my mom called our insurance agency to make sure it would be covered. They told us that the surgery would be covered. Now I am receiving bills for over $5000 from the hospital. We have appealed the bill and called over a dozen times without getting anywhere. Any advice on what I should do?

OK, well this is what I would do. But you decide what's best for you, but here's what I would do:

- Firstly, DON'T PAY ANYTHING YET. ZERO. Don't worry about any threats, fees, etc. for now. Just don't pay anything for now to ANYONE. Not even a portion. Tell the hospital to contact your insurance company in the meantime. Speak to someone over phone at the hospitals billing dept. and explain situation for now so they won't keep hounding you with bills. But again, DON'T PAY ANYTHING.
- Next, have you contacted your insurance company to find out specifically why its not being paid? Who did you speak to and said it was covered? Why do you believe it was covered? Get all your documentation in order first. Do you have any written material saying it will specifically covered? Do you have names of people you spoke too? Do you have specific policy information on what type of accidents would be covered? What is specific rationale insurance company is giving you for nonpayment?

Do that first and let us know what the results are. But whatever you do at the moment, DON'T PAY. If the hospital keeps billing you, call them and tell them you need more time to work it out with insurance company.

Let us know the results of all this and give us all the specifics as to what happens.

[bagelred]

Unless it was really broken somethin fierce, you shoulda just let it heal on its own.



Are you f-cking retarded? Seriously. I'm not kidding.

[iamgine]

I broke a bone in my hand earlier this year and had surgery on it in June. I was in college at the time, so my mom called our insurance agency to make sure it would be covered. They told us that the surgery would be covered. Now I am receiving bills for over $5000 from the hospital. We have appealed the bill and called over a dozen times without getting anywhere. Any advice on what I should do?
Go to the hospital with your insurance information.

[pete's montreux]

Are you f-cking retarded? Seriously. I'm not kidding.

Hey, asshole, his medical tip of the day was CONCLUDED. Can't you pushy New York f*cks wait 'til tomorrow?

[the GIBBET]

Are you f-cking retarded? Seriously. I'm not kidding.

LOL bagelred, congrats dude!

You posted 14,969 times on this site trying to be funny and failed. On your 14,970th post, you finally got it!

:cheers:

[Patrick Chewing]

I broke a bone in my hand earlier this year and had surgery on it in June. I was in college at the time, so my mom called our insurance agency to make sure it would be covered. They told us that the surgery would be covered. Now I am receiving bills for over $5000 from the hospital. We have appealed the bill and called over a dozen times without getting anywhere. Any advice on what I should do?

It's not uncommon for the hospital to send you a copy of a bill showing the work that was done and the cost of it. The insurance company does pick it up however minus whatever your co-pay is for surgery. You could be looking at a couple hundred bucks out of pocket. Depends on your insurance carrier really. I would forward any letters I get from the hospital directly to them.

[enayes]

The surgery was recommended due to the type of break. If I let it heal on its won they told me my fingers might cross when I make a fist. I'll find out everything we've done so far and get back to you guys. Thanks for the help so far.

[wheyhigh]

file bankruptcy, i work for one of the largest filers in the southwest. rack up some more debt to be eligible for a chapter 7 though. simple process if you have an attorney doing all the work for you.

[tontoz]

I broke a bone in my hand earlier this year and had surgery on it in June. I was in college at the time, so my mom called our insurance agency to make sure it would be covered. They told us that the surgery would be covered. Now I am receiving bills for over $5000 from the hospital. We have appealed the bill and called over a dozen times without getting anywhere. Any advice on what I should do?


I work in the health insurance business and went through a similar situation years ago. right now there is no point in contacting the hospital. Get on the phone with your insurance customer service and find out what the problem is. Sometimes there is a backlog of claims and it takes time to get a claim processed. Or maybe your claim is pended for some technical reason.

But you need to be burning up the phone lines to your insurance company. You need to be relentless. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

A long time ago i quit my job but kept my insurance through COBRA until i got new insurance. Then my appendix ruptured and it wasn't diagnosed so a major infection set in. When i finally had surgery a month later i was inpatient for 4 days so you can imagine the bills were pretty high.

Weeks later i started getting bills from the hospital. My insurance company had denied everything. As i said i know the business so i called them and worked them over. Finally i thought i had all the bills paid.

Then i started getting an bill from the hospital for $500. Their were threatening my credit blah blah. I told them i wasn't paying a dam thing until i saw an itemized bill that showed what they were billing me for.

Finally they let me know they will billing me for the difference between a semi-private room and a private room. I had requested a semi-private room and they put me in a private room which was $125 per day more expensive. My insurance didn't cover the difference. However i had it in writing that i had requested a semi private room. I also knew that a $125 difference was excessive.

I told them i wasn't paying sh!t and that if i heard from them again i was going to sue them and have an auditor go through their books to see how many other people they were scamming. That was the last i heard from them.

[B-Low]

My advice? Whatever you do, don't break your other hand my friend

http://www.pollsb.com/photos/o/31750-groucho_marx.jpg

[RoseCity07]

This is why health care is such a huge deal. Having private companies running things is not working. They always try to get out of paying.

[jbot]

might heal on its own, might not heal back right though.

i jacked my forearm up one time skateboarding as a kid and didn't tell my parents since i was afraid they'd make me stop skating. it had to have be like a hair-line fracture and i held it against my stomach for almost 2-3 weeks. i couldn't even rotate my forearm around or anything.

[bada bing]

call the hospital first and ask them what happened with your insurance. they will tell you what the insurance company told them.

then call up the insurance company and try to figure out what happened.

in my view the hospital might have just sent u the bill since the insurance company might be taking long to process the claims?:confusedshrug:

[jbot]

should have gone to mexico and get the surgery. afterwards, u could have partied like a king.:rockon:

[enayes]

Here's what has happened so far:

Insurance company told my mom over the phone that my surgery would be covered. I proceeded with the surgery, presenting my insurance card at the hospital for the pre-op and the operation. No questions asked.

A few weeks after my surgery we start getting bills. One from the emergency room I first went to initially, and another from the hospital for over $5000, the original bill was over $8000, it showed that only $3000 was covered by my insurance.

Are they allowed to say something is covered if only part of it is?

So after we get the biils, my mom calls the insurance company. They tell her that the surgery was "out of network" and it's not covered. She flips out saying she called beforehand to make sure it WAS covered. They then tell her that it was a mistake and that they will take care of it. They give her a confirmation number, which she wrote down and has lost.

Bills kept coming, she called back, they told her that we have to appeal the claim. So we took all the bills, printed out some statements and mailed them to the insurance company. That was about 6 weeks ago. We haven't heard anything about the appeal and the bills continue to come threatening to hurt my credit, etc.

I'm very much looking forward to adulthood. Can't wait to deal with this sh!t on my own.

[DeuceWallaces]

Sounds like you guys are fukt, unless they report your confirmation number for you.

[tontoz]

Here's what has happened so far:


So after we get the biils, my mom calls the insurance company. They tell her that the surgery was "out of network" and it's not covered. She flips out saying she called beforehand to make sure it WAS covered. They then tell her that it was a mistake and that they will take care of it. They give her a confirmation number, which she wrote down and has lost.



Your mom may have really fuked up. First of all whether or not a procedure is covered and whether or not it is in/out of network are two completely separate issues. Calling to see if a procedure is covered doesn't mean it is in network.

There should be a list of network providers in your area in writing somewhere or online. That is something that you (or in this case your mom) should be looking up on your own. You shouldn't rely on a customer service rep for that.

And then losing a confirmation number......:facepalm

If it is true that you had surgery out of network you could be screwed.

[bagelred]

Here's what has happened so far:

Insurance company told my mom over the phone that my surgery would be covered. I proceeded with the surgery, presenting my insurance card at the hospital for the pre-op and the operation. No questions asked.

A few weeks after my surgery we start getting bills. One from the emergency room I first went to initially, and another from the hospital for over $5000, the original bill was over $8000, it showed that only $3000 was covered by my insurance.

Are they allowed to say something is covered if only part of it is?

So after we get the biils, my mom calls the insurance company. They tell her that the surgery was "out of network" and it's not covered. She flips out saying she called beforehand to make sure it WAS covered. They then tell her that it was a mistake and that they will take care of it. They give her a confirmation number, which she wrote down and has lost.

Bills kept coming, she called back, they told her that we have to appeal the claim. So we took all the bills, printed out some statements and mailed them to the insurance company. That was about 6 weeks ago. We haven't heard anything about the appeal and the bills continue to come threatening to hurt my credit, etc.

I'm very much looking forward to adulthood. Can't wait to deal with this sh!t on my own.

So they have no record of any confirmation number on file ? Do they have a record of your initial phone call?

Don't worry yet....just take one step at a time. Whatever you do, do not pay anything at all YET. Don't worry about the hospital's threats. Ask the hospital accounting dept. for more time to deal with your insurance company as you are having a dispute.

It would really help if you had any record of who you spoke to, confirmation number, date you were told it was covered, any other specifics, etc.

[shadow]

keep at it with your insurance company. As a last resort if it doesn't work just call the hospital and tell them you can't pay the 5 grand and if they are willing to work out a deal. Typically they'll knock it down and break it into installments. Again this is a last resort. For now keep at it with your insruance company. Best of luck.

[monkeypox]

Hand surgery is one of the most difficult ones for a doctor to do. In fact in med school they tell you the success rate for most of the major ones is 50/50. So it's freaking expensive and may do more harm than good. Yeah, medicine isn't quite as advanced as people would like to think.

We've gone through this dance a bunch of times already with my family. You can keep fighting it, but really they're the ones that are experts at this. I'm guessing the 5000 bill might be the physicians bill that your insurance doesn't cover. As they run you around they'll threaten your credit and basically extort the money out of you. If it does go to collection, they will call you literally 40 times a day and basically be a jerk to you on top of that. You might have to contact your attorney generals office to get them to stop calling you at all hours. In the meantime your credit will get dinged. Most of them we just gave in and paid because of the credit threat and the previous experience with a collection agency.

The fact that you called apparently doesn't mean dick. I had a friend call and get confirmation that a procedure was going to be like 400 bucks. Two weeks after it's done he gets a huge bill. He calls his insurance company and they basically say "oops, they shouldn't have said that, we actually only cover a negotiated 10% of the fee." They have a record of who he talked to... but too bad this guy doesn't work there anymore. Nothing is in writing so too bad sucker. The kicker is that if he just went to the doctor and did it as a cash patient, it would have only been about $600 because that's what they charge cash patients because they're usually poor. When the insurance company come's a knocking, the procedure costs $1200, 10% of which is 120, leaving him with a nice 1080 bill. Nice.

For us, the ones we did win we basically stayed on the phone and would just keep asking for someone higher who would do something about it right then and there, or to at least explain why this wasn't covered. Just being a jerk on the phone and not taking no for an answer or not accepting another phone number you have to call and restart your whole explanation. This crap is so horrible. Seriously, it's almost better to just pour windex over your wounds and hope it gets better, at least you don't have to deal with this BS.

[bagelred]

Hand surgery is one of the most difficult ones for a doctor to do. In fact in med school they tell you the success rate for most of the major ones is 50/50. So it's freaking expensive and may do more harm than good. Yeah, medicine isn't quite as advanced as people would like to think.

We've gone through this dance a bunch of times already with my family. You can keep fighting it, but really they're the ones that are experts at this. I'm guessing the 5000 bill might be the physicians bill that your insurance doesn't cover. As they run you around they'll threaten your credit and basically extort the money out of you. If it does go to collection, they will call you literally 40 times a day and basically be a jerk to you on top of that. You might have to contact your attorney generals office to get them to stop calling you at all hours. In the meantime your credit will get dinged. Most of them we just gave in and paid because of the credit threat and the previous experience with a collection agency.

The fact that you called apparently doesn't mean dick. I had a friend call and get confirmation that a procedure was going to be like 400 bucks. Two weeks after it's done he gets a huge bill. He calls his insurance company and they basically say "oops, they shouldn't have said that, we actually only cover a negotiated 10% of the fee." They have a record of who he talked to... but too bad this guy doesn't work there anymore. Nothing is in writing so too bad sucker. The kicker is that if he just went to the doctor and did it as a cash patient, it would have only been about $600 because that's what they charge cash patients because they're usually poor. When the insurance company come's a knocking, the procedure costs $1200, 10% of which is 120, leaving him with a nice 1080 bill. Nice.

For us, the ones we did win we basically stayed on the phone and would just keep asking for someone higher who would do something about it right then and there, or to at least explain why this wasn't covered. Just being a jerk on the phone and not taking no for an answer or not accepting another phone number you have to call and restart your whole explanation. This crap is so horrible. Seriously, it's almost better to just pour windex over your wounds and hope it gets better, at least you don't have to deal with this BS.

Isn't the American system of medical insurance fun? So much more interesting than just having complete coverage by our gov't. That "European" system is just so BORING.

[bagelred]

keep at it with your insurance company. As a last resort if it doesn't work just call the hospital and tell them you can't pay the 5 grand and if they are willing to work out a deal. Typically they'll knock it down and break it into installments. Again this is a last resort. For now keep at it with your insruance company. Best of luck.

Yup. The last step will be negotiation with the hospital. But again, just wait it out at much as you can for now.

[the GIBBET]

Isn't the American system of medical insurance fun? So much more interesting than just having complete coverage by our gov't. That "European" system is just so BORING.


How come you only ever complain about rich people who aren't paying for this program or that program?

I never hear you complain much about unplanned pregnancy, dropout rates, poor parenting, crime epidemics, financial irresponsibility, etc. You know, the ways that many people who aren't rich contribute negatively to society.

All you are ever upset about is "corporate white republicans" who don't want to pay all their money for countless programs that you think should be "free" because you're not that one that has to pay. Maybe there would be more money for subsidized healthcare if the courts and prisons weren't packed and women weren't having 4 and 5 kids without being able to support them, thus not only requiring government financial assistance, but putting more and more kids into public schooling which also costs money. While you're gazing like a retard across the pond over at europe, why don't you look into how big THEIR problems are with those issues compared to ours. *******.

Why aren't you EVER complaining about individual values and responsibility? Because you're a ****ing crybaby ass retard who thinks its the responsibility of a small few to work hard and fly right while everyone else just parties? ****ing nimrod.


And it's great how you're like "oh, our system is so stupid, we need to do it like in europe." It's not as if you know the FIRST DAMN THING about how implementing ANY kind of healthcare system works. You're just spouting out ideology with no actual ability to support or explain it. You're a damn fool, but I aint mister t, I got no pity for you, *******.

[Colin Cowherd]

starface is so cute when he's angry

[the GIBBET]

starface is so cute when he's angry

Thanks, josh. Or Jefferson money. Whichever one of you it is this time.

[Colin Cowherd]

Thanks, josh. Or Jefferson money. Whichever one of you it is this time.

I can't help that that I'm a social outcast and have no friends, ok!?!?!

[Hawker]

Isn't the American system of medical insurance fun? So much more interesting than just having complete coverage by our gov't. That "European" system is just so BORING.

How bout a free market for healthcare? 67% is already paid for by the government...don't act like this is all caused by private companies.

[Meticode]

don't pay it.
Then it gets sent to a collection agency, then it hits your credit and you can't get it off for several years even after you pay it.

[the GIBBET]

How bout a free market for healthcare?


bagelred: "Wait a minute.......you're telling me that there is a FREE market for healthcare??? Well then why don't we just do that?!? Then it's free for everyone!!!! Boy, why didnt we think of this earlier??" :banana:

[Meticode]

Here's what has happened so far:

Insurance company told my mom over the phone that my surgery would be covered. I proceeded with the surgery, presenting my insurance card at the hospital for the pre-op and the operation. No questions asked.

A few weeks after my surgery we start getting bills. One from the emergency room I first went to initially, and another from the hospital for over $5000, the original bill was over $8000, it showed that only $3000 was covered by my insurance.

Are they allowed to say something is covered if only part of it is?

So after we get the biils, my mom calls the insurance company. They tell her that the surgery was "out of network" and it's not covered. She flips out saying she called beforehand to make sure it WAS covered. They then tell her that it was a mistake and that they will take care of it. They give her a confirmation number, which she wrote down and has lost.

Bills kept coming, she called back, they told her that we have to appeal the claim. So we took all the bills, printed out some statements and mailed them to the insurance company. That was about 6 weeks ago. We haven't heard anything about the appeal and the bills continue to come threatening to hurt my credit, etc.

I'm very much looking forward to adulthood. Can't wait to deal with this sh!t on my own.
I can almost guarantee you're going to have to pay it. They're going to tell you it's your responsibility to look over your own policy (or in this case your mother) and educate yourself on coverage or not.

My best friend works in a collection agency that deals with medical bills all the time. And the biggest complaint/reason bills are sent to the collection agency is simply people saying, "I was told it was covered and it wasn't."

The "conformation number" they gave you will basically do nothing. It's just a ploy to end the phone call to prolong the inevitable outcome that she's going to have to pay it.

The sad part is that you'll probably end up setting up a payment plan for the bill with the creditor to get the bill paid down to keep it from going to collections, and after some-odd months they'll send it there anyway.

After hearing the stories from my friend, our health care system is a joke and there are plenty of people who fall in the cracks of paying bills simply because the insurance agency in most cases does NOT care at all what they tell you and nothing is held against them.

Good luck.

My best advice to you and your mother is to call the insurance agency and ask them how you can get documentation on educating yourself about your own policy. When they ask why, tell them because they tell you something is covered, and not even 50% of a $8000 bill is covered and you ask them to fix it, and they say "Oh it was a mistake. Too bad."

[heyhey]

I tried to stay away from hospitals and pharmacies whenever possible. Most times there are herbal and holistic alternative to the pharmaceutical industrial complex, whose objective is hardly altruistic. Much like mortages, health insurances and hospitalized care are just other methods of social control. The over medication and vaccination of the public is an issue that's not discussed enough in mainstream media.

Honestly, broken hands heal naturally. I don't know why exactly the doctors told you the reasons for surgery was but I know you could have found healthy alternatives to it. Now they have you as another debtor in their system. good luck getting out.

[knickballer]

Idiotic, bigoted garbage removed

[Doko]

Meh...
And people keep bashing free health care.

[JMT]

First, disregard everything said by everyone so far. I've dealt with insurance companies regarding surgery and after care in the millions of dollars.

Most insurance companies automatically reject a claim the first time it's presented. They send out a bill hoping you're the little old lady that gets bills and writes checks. So disregard the first notice.

Get the pertinent information on your coverage. Not a copy of the policy as someone suggested; there's nothing there you can make heads or tails of, and if you have to, you're into lawyer territory. Find out:
* Your deductible
* Your stop loss. That's the maximum amount you can be held accountable for out-of-pocket in a year.
* How much of the stop loss has been used this year (ie how much out-of-pocket has been spent by the family covered by the policy).

Call the insurance company, not the hospital, and find out what/how much they're covering. Odds are they'll tell you exactly how much you'll be accountable for.

Once that's settled...and in most cases, you'll get off with a very small amount...deal with the balance. If you do owe the hospital, contact them and find out how much they'll take to pay it today. They'll reduce it by a large %. If you're not able to meet that, tell them all you can afford is $10 a month until it's paid. As long as you abide by that, they have to allow you to pay it that way.

On every call...insurance company, hospital...write down the date/time of the call and who you spoke with. Not just a name; you want the ID # that will get you back to that person, or that will identify them. Make a point of doing this and they'll bullshit you far less.

They do this to everybody. Don't panic. It'll be ok unless you have a really bad policy. If it's insurance through your parents employer, that's probably not the case.

[the GIBBET]

Meh...
And people keep bashing free health care.

Good contribution. A real thinking man, you are.


"free healthcare" is not so simple as the simple minds of bagelred, smokee, deucewallaces, and of course "doko" like to convince themselves it is.

Let's look at the very example in this thread.


Someone breaks their hand. Now even though a broken hand will OFTEN heal on its own, as was the case for millenniums of civilization before surgeries existed, we feel it is every citizens right to have his broken hand surgically repaired. Surgery by nature is a very expensive procedure.

Now, we have a limited amount of financial resources in this country. There is no such thing as "free" in this country. A given program or institution may be subsidized, meaning there is no cost from a consumer standpoint, thus the illusion of being free. But it is actually being paid for by everyone. Our resident retards like smokee, bagelred, deucewallaces think it's all being paid for by "evil rich white republicans" but that's not true. Yes, the revenue comes directly from the taxation of businesses and business people, but they compensate for it by then marking their goods and services at a price that will offset it. This is pretty basic stuff that any bozo who doesn't wanna play the "pie in the sky fairytale ideology" game can grasp.


Ok, so now that we know and accept that what costs the COUNTRY money costs EVERYONE money (it is NOT 'free'), let's talk about broken hands. A broken hand is not a life or death issue. It's really not much of an issue at all, it will heal with time. A doctor of course is gonna recommend surgery, because he's gonna make money and you don't know any better. If you think doctors arent like any other person in business, you're fooling yourself.

So as a collective nation, how much of our finite resources do we really wanna use fixing up broken hands? What if I like to skateboard and I break my hand every few months, break a toe every few months, sprain my ankle every few months. You think it's a right as a citizen to have surgery for all those at the public's expense? Now multiply that one hypothetical example, by 610,000,000. That's a lot of money to surgically repair broken hands that generally heal on their own.


People got along for a long time without surgery for broken hands. If we're going to have universal coverage for things, it has to be things that legitimately cannot be treated without doctor care. I would venture a guess that the vast majority of operational costs in this country are not of paramount importance to health or come from unavoidable causes. If you break your hand, let it heal. Don't get diabetes from gorging yourself. Don't contract STD's by being stupid. Don't smoke cigarettes. These are all things that our resident dumbasses want to pay for at the public's expense because they can't get it through their pea brained little heads that its not phucking FREE.

"But it's ok. It's free money. Rich people are paying. It makes me sad to hear those wittle stories about the big bad collection agency. So I won't look at both sides of the issue. I'll just pretend having free healthcare is a perfect solution (since you can't refute that because we dont have it so there's no proof that its not) and I'll pretend like there isn't a reason things our the way they are, and I'll make everyone think I'm really compassionate and progressive because I'm taking the ideological side that makes everyone feel good, even though if you asked me to propose a way to make it WORK on a fundamental level, it would crumble like a sandcastle." Lil *******s.

[Doko]

Good contribution. A real thinking man, you are.


"free healthcare" is not so simple as the simple minds of bagelred, smokee, deucewallaces, and of course "doko" like to convince themselves it is.

Let's look at the very example in this thread.


Someone breaks their hand. Now even though a broken hand will OFTEN heal on its own, as was the case for millenniums of civilization before surgeries existed, we feel it is every citizens right to have his broken hand surgically repaired. Surgery by nature is a very expensive procedure.

Now, we have a limited amount of financial resources in this country. There is no such thing as "free" in this country. A given program or institution may be subsidized, meaning there is no cost from a consumer standpoint, thus the illusion of being free. But it is actually being paid for by everyone. Our resident retards like smokee, bagelred, deucewallaces think it's all being paid for by "evil rich white republicans" but that's not true. Yes, the revenue comes directly from the taxation of businesses and business people, but they compensate for it by then marking their goods and services at a price that will offset it. This is pretty basic stuff that any bozo who doesn't wanna play the "pie in the sky fairytale ideology" game can grasp.


Ok, so now that we know and accept that what costs the COUNTRY money costs EVERYONE money (it is NOT 'free'), let's talk about broken hands. A broken hand is not a life or death issue. It's really not much of an issue at all, it will heal with time. A doctor of course is gonna recommend surgery, because he's gonna make money and you don't know any better. If you think doctors arent like any other person in business, you're fooling yourself.

So as a collective nation, how much of our finite resources do we really wanna use fixing up broken hands? What if I like to skateboard and I break my hand every few months, break a toe every few months, sprain my ankle every few months. You think it's a right as a citizen to have surgery for all those at the public's expense? Now multiply that one hypothetical example, by 610,000,000. That's a lot of money to surgically repair broken hands that generally heal on their own.


People got along for a long time without surgery for broken hands. If we're going to have universal coverage for things, it has to be things that legitimately cannot be treated without doctor care. I would venture a guess that the vast majority of operational costs in this country are not of paramount importance to health or come from unavoidable causes. If you break your hand, let it heal. Don't get diabetes from gorging yourself. Don't contract STD's by being stupid. Don't smoke cigarettes. These are all things that our resident dumbasses want to pay for at the public's expense because they can't get it through their pea brained little heads that its not phucking FREE.

"But it's ok. It's free money. Rich people are paying. It makes me sad to hear those wittle stories about the big bad collection agency. So I won't look at both sides of the issue. I'll just pretend having free healthcare is a perfect solution (since you can't refute that because we dont have it so there's no proof that its not) and I'll pretend like there isn't a reason things our the way they are, and I'll make everyone think I'm really compassionate and progressive because I'm taking the ideological side that makes everyone feel good, even though if you asked me to propose a way to make it WORK on a fundamental level, it would crumble like a sandcastle." Lil *******s.

How about this dumbass: I break my hand and they fix it perfectly, for free.
Sounds good?
If poor idiots in europe can do it, I'm sure that the US could cut just a little bit of the military resources and invest in keeping its people alive when they get a flu?

[the GIBBET]

How about this dumbass: I break my hand and they fix it perfectly, for free.
Sounds good?
If poor idiots in europe can do it, I'm sure that the US could cut just a little bit of the military resources and invest in keeping its people alive when they get a flu?


My god, you're stupid. Maybe Deucewallaces can arrange to have you exhibited in the Smithsonian.

[SourGrapes]

Good contribution. A real thinking man, you are.


"free healthcare" is not so simple as the simple minds of bagelred, smokee, deucewallaces, and of course "doko" like to convince themselves it is.

Let's look at the very example in this thread.


Someone breaks their hand. Now even though a broken hand will OFTEN heal on its own, as was the case for millenniums of civilization before surgeries existed, we feel it is every citizens right to have his broken hand surgically repaired. Surgery by nature is a very expensive procedure.

Now, we have a limited amount of financial resources in this country. There is no such thing as "free" in this country. A given program or institution may be subsidized, meaning there is no cost from a consumer standpoint, thus the illusion of being free. But it is actually being paid for by everyone. Our resident retards like smokee, bagelred, deucewallaces think it's all being paid for by "evil rich white republicans" but that's not true. Yes, the revenue comes directly from the taxation of businesses and business people, but they compensate for it by then marking their goods and services at a price that will offset it. This is pretty basic stuff that any bozo who doesn't wanna play the "pie in the sky fairytale ideology" game can grasp.


Ok, so now that we know and accept that what costs the COUNTRY money costs EVERYONE money (it is NOT 'free'), let's talk about broken hands. A broken hand is not a life or death issue. It's really not much of an issue at all, it will heal with time. A doctor of course is gonna recommend surgery, because he's gonna make money and you don't know any better. If you think doctors arent like any other person in business, you're fooling yourself.

So as a collective nation, how much of our finite resources do we really wanna use fixing up broken hands? What if I like to skateboard and I break my hand every few months, break a toe every few months, sprain my ankle every few months. You think it's a right as a citizen to have surgery for all those at the public's expense? Now multiply that one hypothetical example, by 610,000,000. That's a lot of money to surgically repair broken hands that generally heal on their own.


People got along for a long time without surgery for broken hands. If we're going to have universal coverage for things, it has to be things that legitimately cannot be treated without doctor care. I would venture a guess that the vast majority of operational costs in this country are not of paramount importance to health or come from unavoidable causes. If you break your hand, let it heal. Don't get diabetes from gorging yourself. Don't contract STD's by being stupid. Don't smoke cigarettes. These are all things that our resident dumbasses want to pay for at the public's expense because they can't get it through their pea brained little heads that its not phucking FREE.

"But it's ok. It's free money. Rich people are paying. It makes me sad to hear those wittle stories about the big bad collection agency. So I won't look at both sides of the issue. I'll just pretend having free healthcare is a perfect solution (since you can't refute that because we dont have it so there's no proof that its not) and I'll pretend like there isn't a reason things our the way they are, and I'll make everyone think I'm really compassionate and progressive because I'm taking the ideological side that makes everyone feel good, even though if you asked me to propose a way to make it WORK on a fundamental level, it would crumble like a sandcastle." Lil *******s.

i agree with you that people in our country often feel entitled for services without looking at the underlying behavior that causes the problems those services address. taking a pill is easy.

and i agree there should be restrictions about how much we all chip in to help people who have troubles as a result of lifestyle problems.

i do not agree, however, that the profit margins of health insurance companies need to remain the largest of any us industry. they can still make a huge profit while those with legitimate health problems, not caused by their own stupidity, receive the care they need.

in that way a public option is one tool in the process of making the country healthier... but not a panacea

[Pinkhearts]

Obama is going to fix this for you.

Under govt insurance, you won't worry about your insurance company trying to get out of paying your claims and giving you bullshit info.

And so what if it operates at a loss. It just means they gonna tax you more for the difference.

Don't worry I'm sure he's smart enough to make fat people pay more for insurance.

[Doko]

My god, you're stupid. Maybe Deucewallaces can arrange to have you exhibited in the Smithsonian.

My god you're retarded. I really hope you won't ever get caught with a disease with no insurance to pay for your cures, that would be too bad of a way to find out about the importance of free health care even for an idiot like you.

[RaininThrees]

The concept of having to pay for a surgery is so foreign to me, I won't even think of contributing. Yes, I'm aware I pay for everyone else's healthcare through my taxes, that I'm paying for other people's recklessness, blah, blah, blah. But you know what? I don't care. If I break my hand or leg and it requires surgery, it happens. And I go home. And I don't have to pay. I like that everyone is afforded that opportunity. I had knee surgery in college. Took 2 weeks from beginning to end of the process. Total cost to me: $150 for the inflatable leg splint. That was covered through my student health insurance.

Also, when did "this would have healed on its own a thousand years ago" become an argument? Things people also did a thousand years ago:

Rode horses for travel
raped and pillaged towns
Crusaded

Any doctor who's worth his salt won't recommend surgery for something that can heal properly on its own. We have the ability to fix things properly now.

[PowerGlove]

Did you damage a nerve or something? Why did you need surgery?

[the GIBBET]

The concept of having to pay for a surgery is so foreign to me, I won't even think of contributing. Yes, I'm aware I pay for everyone else's healthcare through my taxes, that I'm paying for other people's recklessness, blah, blah, blah. But you know what? I don't care. If I break my hand or leg and it requires surgery, it happens. And I go home. And I don't have to pay. I like that everyone is afforded that opportunity. I had knee surgery in college. Took 2 weeks from beginning to end of the process. Total cost to me: $150 for the inflatable leg splint. That was covered through my student health insurance.

Also, when did "this would have healed on its own a thousand years ago" become an argument? Things people also did a thousand years ago:

Rode horses for travel
raped and pillaged towns
Crusaded

Any doctor who's worth his salt won't recommend surgery for something that can heal properly on its own. We have the ability to fix things properly now.


It's so cute how naive you are.

[hayden695]

The concept of having to pay for a surgery is so foreign to me, I won't even think of contributing. Yes, I'm aware I pay for everyone else's healthcare through my taxes, that I'm paying for other people's recklessness, blah, blah, blah. But you know what? I don't care. If I break my hand or leg and it requires surgery, it happens. And I go home. And I don't have to pay. I like that everyone is afforded that opportunity. I had knee surgery in college. Took 2 weeks from beginning to end of the process. Total cost to me: $150 for the inflatable leg splint. That was covered through my student health insurance.

Also, when did "this would have healed on its own a thousand years ago" become an argument? Things people also did a thousand years ago:

Rode horses for travel
raped and pillaged towns
Crusaded

Any doctor who's worth his salt won't recommend surgery for something that can heal properly on its own. We have the ability to fix things properly now.
Exactly my thoughts. Me being canadian as well, I can't really chime in. I don't like to go to the doctor unless absolutely neccesary though. I will rather have my grandma stitch me up then go to the doctors, but that is mostly because I hate hospitals.

I remember when my grandpa got cancer, they gave him some special pills that were quite expensive, like 10$ a pill. I thought it was outrageous, until they told me how much it would cost in the states. I won't act like I know alot about this shit, but me personally, I don't mind paying for everyone knowing that if ever I need to get something done, it won't cost me an arm and a leg.

[Meticode]

First, disregard everything said by everyone so far. I've dealt with insurance companies regarding surgery and after care in the millions of dollars.

Most insurance companies automatically reject a claim the first time it's presented. They send out a bill hoping you're the little old lady that gets bills and writes checks. So disregard the first notice.

Get the pertinent information on your coverage. Not a copy of the policy as someone suggested; there's nothing there you can make heads or tails of, and if you have to, you're into lawyer territory. Find out:
* Your deductible
* Your stop loss. That's the maximum amount you can be held accountable for out-of-pocket in a year.
* How much of the stop loss has been used this year (ie how much out-of-pocket has been spent by the family covered by the policy).

Call the insurance company, not the hospital, and find out what/how much they're covering. Odds are they'll tell you exactly how much you'll be accountable for.

Once that's settled...and in most cases, you'll get off with a very small amount...deal with the balance. If you do owe the hospital, contact them and find out how much they'll take to pay it today. They'll reduce it by a large %. If you're not able to meet that, tell them all you can afford is $10 a month until it's paid. As long as you abide by that, they have to allow you to pay it that way.

On every call...insurance company, hospital...write down the date/time of the call and who you spoke with. Not just a name; you want the ID # that will get you back to that person, or that will identify them. Make a point of doing this and they'll bullshit you far less.

They do this to everybody. Don't panic. It'll be ok unless you have a really bad policy. If it's insurance through your parents employer, that's probably not the case.

This is untrue. My friend who collects for providers and hospitals has people that are sent to collections when they make these types of payment arrangements. They'll pay $10/month towards a $500 bill then after six months the creditor will send the account to collections and then the collectors will aggressive demand more, and it's not paid by a certain amount of time credit report it negatively.

[RaininThrees]

It's so cute how naive you are.

Explain to me what I'm naive about. I mean, that's a cute (to borrow from you) thing for you to throw out there to sound intelligent, but until you actually put some substance behind it, it means jack.

I'm fully aware of everything that goes into me getting health care when I need it. I accept it, gladly and willingly. No one is pulling any wool over my eyes.

[enayes]

First, disregard everything said by everyone so far. I've dealt with insurance companies regarding surgery and after care in the millions of dollars.

Most insurance companies automatically reject a claim the first time it's presented. They send out a bill hoping you're the little old lady that gets bills and writes checks. So disregard the first notice.

Get the pertinent information on your coverage. Not a copy of the policy as someone suggested; there's nothing there you can make heads or tails of, and if you have to, you're into lawyer territory. Find out:
* Your deductible
* Your stop loss. That's the maximum amount you can be held accountable for out-of-pocket in a year.
* How much of the stop loss has been used this year (ie how much out-of-pocket has been spent by the family covered by the policy).

Call the insurance company, not the hospital, and find out what/how much they're covering. Odds are they'll tell you exactly how much you'll be accountable for.

Once that's settled...and in most cases, you'll get off with a very small amount...deal with the balance. If you do owe the hospital, contact them and find out how much they'll take to pay it today. They'll reduce it by a large %. If you're not able to meet that, tell them all you can afford is $10 a month until it's paid. As long as you abide by that, they have to allow you to pay it that way.

On every call...insurance company, hospital...write down the date/time of the call and who you spoke with. Not just a name; you want the ID # that will get you back to that person, or that will identify them. Make a point of doing this and they'll bullshit you far less.

They do this to everybody. Don't panic. It'll be ok unless you have a really bad policy. If it's insurance through your parents employer, that's probably not the case.

Thanks for the info, I'll relay this to my mom.

As for why I needed surgery, the doctor said the angle of the break may cause it to heal incorrectly. I broke the bone in my hand on the middle finger.

[DeuceWallaces]

It's so cute how naive you are.

Says the guy who hasn't lived a day in his life on his own. You don't know shit about the real world. You're a broke idiot wannabe actor and no one should waste a split second of their life listening to anything you have to say.

[pete's montreux]

cot damn deuce, why you gotta do him like that in front of everybody?

cjkcjk
cjk
cjkcjckcjckcjckcjkcjckckjcjckcjcj

[Wile E. Coyote]

Unless it was really broken somethin fierce, you shoulda just let it heal on its own.

People broke bones for millenniums before there was surgery, and they did not become permanent cripples.

Bruises, breaks, and tears will heal. Doctors sell you surgeries because you don't know any better. You think you simply HAVE to have surgery, that's your only choice to get better. They make a killing off it.

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/8974/wileecoyotecopy.jpg

[the GIBBET]

Says the guy who hasn't lived a day in his life on his own. You don't know shit about the real world. You're a broke idiot wannabe actor and no one should waste a split second of their life listening to anything you have to say.



.............................................



I've lived with my girl for 5 years. She works at an animal hospital and gets up at 5am most morning. She usually goes to bed a little before 10 if she has to work.


http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/9581/deucemyspace.png

[Batz]

Unless it was really broken somethin fierce, you shoulda just let it heal on its own.

People broke bones for millenniums before there was surgery, and they did not become permanent cripples.

Bruises, breaks, and tears will heal. Doctors sell you surgeries because you don't know any better. You think you simply HAVE to have surgery, that's your only choice to get better. They make a killing off it.

If an internal organ stops functioning, have surgery. If you break a bone, don't.
Yes, because life expectancy rate has been the same for millenniums.

[the GIBBET]

I've lived with my girl for 5 years. She works at an animal hospital and gets up at 5am most morning. She usually goes to bed a little before 10 if she has to work.

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/9581/deucemyspace.png

[Batz]

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/9581/deucemyspace.png
It says he's single on myspace!?!?!?!


:milton

[Go Getter]

:roll:

The hate some of you harbor for each other is EPIC!

[Go Getter]

It says he's single on myspace!?!?!?!


:milton


Such damning evidence, I know.:oldlol:

[DeuceWallaces]

Haha, you've got nothing dipshit. You've got my partially set up MySpace account that I've practically never used. I'm guessing you found my Facebook in the ISH group as well but decided not to use it, because it has all my friends and relationship status.

Keep grasping at straws you worthless piece of human scum. You've got no life, no friends, no career, nothing. You're a nobody. All you got are fake stories and a fake persona on a basketball website.

[JtotheIzzo]

Good contribution. A real thinking man, you are.


"free healthcare" is not so simple as the simple minds of bagelred, smokee, deucewallaces, and of course "doko" like to convince themselves it is.

Let's look at the very example in this thread.


Someone breaks their hand. Now even though a broken hand will OFTEN heal on its own, as was the case for millenniums of civilization before surgeries existed, we feel it is every citizens right to have his broken hand surgically repaired. Surgery by nature is a very expensive procedure.

.

yeah, you should never set a broken bone.:roll:

let it heal naturally. :roll:

that is a pretty hippy take for someone as right wing as you.:lol

do you read what you write?

I am sure all those years of medical school taught you about all this.

you're so f*cking full of shit.

visit a third world country sometime, walk around see all the people with bent legs and f*cked up arms etc...from simple scooter accidents.

go tell them that bones heal naturally, doctors shouldn't reset them.

its bad enough when you spout your right wing drizzle, but this shit, is epic tardness, you should be ashamed.

perhaps the epitome of talking out of one's ass.

*waits for Starface to come back with the same old f*cked out rebuttals.*

[rufuspaul]

They're going to tell you it's your responsibility to look over your own policy (or in this case your mother) and educate yourself on coverage or not.


And why not? Insurance is a contract between the insurer and the insured or the insured's employer.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

Move to Canada.:lol

[Meticode]

And why not? Insurance is a contract between the insurer and the insured or the insured's employer.
Because that's the way it is.

[bagelred]

How about this dumbass: I break my hand and they fix it perfectly, for free.
Sounds good?
If poor idiots in europe can do it, I'm sure that the US could cut just a little bit of the military resources and invest in keeping its people alive when they get a flu?

It's like talking to a monkey. Don't bother.

[Rolando]

How much is your hand worth?

[rufuspaul]

Because that's the way it is.

Yep.

[the GIBBET]

EDEN PRAIRIE, Minn. -- Minnesota Vikings quarterback Brett Favre was diagnosed Monday with two separate fractures in his left ankle, and his status for Sunday's game against the New England Patriots is uncertain.

An MRI revealed an avulsion fracture -- which takes place when a tendon or ligament pulls off a piece of the bone -- and a stress fracture, coach Brad Childress said. Favre, 41, has played in 291 consecutive games.

Surgery is not required and Childress said: "Once he's functional he can play. ... I wouldn't rule anything out in terms of the end of the week. I don't really have a time framework on it."


Reminds me of when Brandon Roy tore his meniscus and his doctors were like "you can't play, you gotta come in and get surgery!" and he was like "nah, i'm just gonna go ahead and play in this playoff game." reminds me of how I tore a meniscus when I was a kid, and they scheduled me for surgery, and by the time my appointment came around I was already feeling better, but they had me to do it anyway, and then scheduled me for 6 weeks of physical therapy. Reminds me of the guy in THIS THREAD who said he fractured his hand and was told to get surgery but just let it heal and hasn't had a problem.




yeah, you should never set a broken bone.:roll:

let it heal naturally. :roll:

that is a pretty hippy take for someone as right wing as you.:lol

Do you ever actually notice how corny you are? All your "jokes", all your positions, you're constant jockeying for my attention like we're buddies, you are a really corny poster.

I did not at any point use the word NEVER but you are trying to put it in my mouth because its the only way you can argue with me.



*waits for Starface to come back with the same old f*cked out rebuttals.*

****ed out??? Is this something you're trying to make sound cool??? WTF is that, who has ever said "****ed out". Again, you are corny as hell.

Get your Canadian inferiority complex outta here, and don't take it as an afront that some people believe doctors care is trusted and sought out far too frequently in the country that actually matters on this continent. Phuckin Canadian cornball nerd.

[Doko]

It's like talking to a monkey. Don't bother.

Didn't know him, didn't take too long to realize what you said is true... Thanks for the insight :D

[hayden695]

I think f*cked out was a hilarious expression. And jizzo can state I haven't always been a fan of his.

[chazzy]

Reminds me of when Brandon Roy tore his meniscus and his doctors were like "you can't play, you gotta come in and get surgery!" and he was like "nah, i'm just gonna go ahead and play in this playoff game."
What..? Wrong


Trail Blazers guard Brandon Roy had arthroscopic surgery on his right knee Friday and will miss one or two weeks.
Roy has already been ruled out of Portland's first-round series against the Phoenix Suns, which starts Sunday. But with the recovery timeline, the Blazers left open the possibility of his return should Portland advance.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2010/news/story?id=5100770

Bynum chose not to get meniscus surgery so he wouldn't miss any time, and he was hobbling around on one leg and had to get his knee drained multiple times

[JtotheIzzo]

Do you ever actually notice how corny you are? All your "jokes", all your positions, you're constant jockeying for my attention like we're buddies, you are a really corny poster.

I did not at any point use the word NEVER but you are trying to put it in my mouth because its the only way you can argue with me.

backtracking from it now, well I guess that is positive.

jockeying for your attention,? lol hardly, I usually ignore you but these comments were so f*cking ridiculous I figured I make a comment.

corny? Don't you know that the crooked lol is to signify corniness you simpleton? Why do you think I used it?

LOL, maybe I should just talk about Deuce's picture for a year straight and post his MySpace page in every thread.

that is comedy right there.




****ed out??? Is this something you're trying to make sound cool??? WTF is that, who has ever said "****ed out". Again, you are corny as hell.

Get your Canadian inferiority complex outta here, and don't take it as an afront that some people believe doctors care is trusted and sought out far too frequently in the country that actually matters on this continent. Phuckin Canadian cornball nerd.


And there is the predictable f*cked out response from Scabface.

F*cked out: Something lame used over and over and over again to the point that it makes the user look predictable. basically your entire existence here.

[JtotheIzzo]

What..? Wrong



http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2010/news/story?id=5100770

Bynum chose not to get meniscus surgery so he wouldn't miss any time, and he was hobbling around on one leg and had to get his knee drained multiple times



Ohhhhhhhhh Scabby! :roll: