Is it just because im generally unimpressed with Bosh or would a lot of you....

[Kblaze8855]

...rather see Amare in Miami too?

Just...Lebron/Wade/Amare seems like it would be so much more....aggressive.

I can see Amare even with 2 other stars out there beasting guysi n the paint and getting look after look under the basket. I could see him buying into defense for a ring. Id be like 20% more hyped about watching this team with Amare in the mix.

Bosh just...eh. Very good. But another guy who is at his best 14-18 feet from the basket? But hes a 4? I know amare added aj umper to his game and is best facing up but....

I think Amares mix of one on one ability around the basket and aggression would make this team just...fearsome to play. And better to watch.

If thats just my disregard of Boshs supposed greatness blinding me...fee lfree to say so. I wont argue.

Guy just doesnt do it for me.

[strifed169]

I think coach spo is turning bosh into a defensive monster, he made alot of key defensive stops tonight and is a real good perimeter defender

[50inchvertical]

IU agree. And everybody is horribly overrating him throwing him in all these analogies to Jordan, Magic, Bird, etc. as if he is one of the best players in the L. Dude has won all of 1 playoff game in his career. He is more on par to becoming Shareef Abdur Rahim or Antoine Jamison, than Larry Bird and Magic Johnson.

[305Baller]

Blaze: Bosh was brilliant in the preseason. As he gets comfortable he will improve. The Heat should force the issue if Bosh continues to have low stats.

[3stat2]

Bosh needs the ball and a few dribbles to be effective, plus a significant portion of his offensive arsenal seems to involve turnaround jumpshots outside the paint.

But the main issue is that he needs the ball for several seconds to make a move, whereas Amare is one of the best off-ball offensive players.

Amare's ability to cut to the right place at the right time, while being able to catch even bad passes would make him a better offensive fit for the Heat.

Lebron, Wade and Bosh are all one-on-one players. Keep some shooters in there, and change Bosh for one of the league's best off-ball finishers - that would be an almost perfect scoring lineup.

[magnax1]

No, if Amare was starting PF on that team, they could very well be the worst rebounding team in the league. Joel Anthony is 54 out of 57 possible centers in rebounding per 36, and Amare has to be on the bottom of the PF's (Can only sort by forwards, not PFs on basketball-reference)

[the GIBBET]

It's very early but I agree and was wondering myself if Bosh has sort of been the product of being a default "star" because Toronto had nobody else. Dude just hasn't impressed. Maybe he'll pick it up, who knows.

[Bigsmoke]

Bosh stretches the floor better for Lebron and Wade and like magnax1 said, he's much better rebounder.

[HiphopRelated]

Bosh has improved tremendously as a defender with those long arms and his mobility.

His scoring will bump up to 15 or 16 over the course of the season, but the point is that he's always there in youur back pocket as an explosive option

[Skywalker]

Your opinion on Bosh is invalid since you said he's the new Shareef Abdur Rahim :lol

end thread

[brooks_thompson]

No, if Amare was starting PF on that team, they could very well be the worst rebounding team in the league. Joel Anthony is 54 out of 57 possible centers in rebounding per 36, and Amare has to be on the bottom of the PF's (Can only sort by forwards, not PFs on basketball-reference)

what is anthony's rebounding rate compared to stoudemire's? position doesn't matter.

[Skywalker]

IU agree. And everybody is horribly overrating him throwing him in all these analogies to Jordan, Magic, Bird, etc. as if he is one of the best players in the L. Dude has won all of 1 playoff game in his career. He is more on par to becoming Shareef Abdur Rahim or Antoine Jamison, than Larry Bird and Magic Johnson.

There's many levels inbetween ye fckin moron omg. :facepalm

[Kblaze8855]

His numbers dont concern me really. I just hate...hate seeing bigmen who arent Dirk shoot 3s. Seeing him take that stepback 3 towards the end kinda made me cringe. It just isnt the type of thing I want to see out of my key bigman. 18 footers,...3s...

I know amare has been known to take a 3. But Amare can be a legit every time down the court force around the basket. Bosh? I dont know. If I cant post you up and feed you to get us through nights the guards arent shooting well...the **** is the point of having a 100 million dollar power forward?

The guy playing off two wings on his level should be living in the paint, getting easy baskets all over, and generally feasting on the one on ones.

With Wade/Lebrons ability to drive and find people who come open....Amare would be a walking highlight reel on that team.

Bosh almost seems...extra. Like its 2 great players...then an extra guy who doesnt fit but is too good to not sign given the chance. Itsl ike they took 2 elite players then reached into a sack of names of stars and got Bosh...sure you are gonna take it. But if you can pick and choose?

If I can select from the whole league I dont think Bosh would be in my top 5 guys to be the bigman on that team.

Strictly talking offense...I think Boozer would be better too. Boozer doesnt play regular defense so Bosh makes more sense. But on offense Boozer would do work on this team.

Bosh will come around. Probably put up 15-19 a game. Shoot 55% or so. I know he will get his. Just doesnt seem like an ideal situation.

[Carbine]

Offensively, Amare would probably be a better option to go along with Wade/LeBron....

But in the overall scheme of things, Bosh is the better fit. His defense, particularly his ability to play the pick n roll, which most offenses run a great deal in the NBA, is crucial to Miami's overall defensive effectiveness.

Amare is....a below average defender both in the post and on pick n roll situations.

If Miami is going to win a championship it's going to be because of their defense and Wade/LeBron being too devastating - and if these 3 games to start the season are any indication, Bosh is a very valuable asset to the defensive part of the floor.

[Skywalker]

I do agree though not the ideal fit. He's best as main scoring option IMO.

[magnax1]

what is anthony's rebounding rate compared to stoudemire's? position doesn't matter.
Last year Joel's per 36 was 6.8, and Amare's was 9.3, which is a whole lot higher then I thought it was for some reason. Amare only averaged 6.6 in the playoffs though.

[50inchvertical]

Your opinion on Bosh is invalid since you said he's the new Shareef Abdur Rahim :lol

end thread
That was me. What's the difference between the 2? Shareef was always able to give you buckets, somewhere around 20/9 every season but never really took a team anywhere. Up until this point in his career, can that description not fit on Bosh? How many playoff series has he won? games?

And again, people keep using the MJ/Bird/Magic/Barkley type comparisons as if Bosh deserves to be in the same sentence as those dudes even when used as an analogy. He is not a top 5 player in the league, could argue for not even top 10.

[Scuba Steve]

The thing that annoys me as a Heat fan is that he seems to slow the ball up. Once it goes in the post with him he's always calculated and slow trying to make the right play. He's not a blackhole since he will look and most of the time find the right pass, but I think he should just become more aggressive and look to make a quick spin/any move towards the basket as soon as he catches it.

Basically just keep that ball moving, which he's not doing at the moment. Another thing that's frustrating me outside of his power is that Spo isn't incorporating more pick and rolls with Bosh. He seems to only run it with the other bigs.

[Kblaze8855]

Your opinion on Bosh is invalid since you said he's the new Shareef Abdur Rahim

end thread

Im not sure I said that but im not sure I didnt either. Would depend on when. But 6 of 7 seasons being .500 or less? Nothing in the playoffs? Ends up a distant third on his team before hes likely to actually do something that matters? A big tweener forward who puts up numbers that dont result in anything but high draft picks?

Sounds pretty SAR to me. Though id have to see the context in which it was discussed to say if my opinion on it has changed.

[thejumpa]

Amar'e would be sick on Miami because he would clean up a lot of those missed drives by LeBron and Wade. He'd fit much better in a PnR situation as well. I think Bosh will come around but he needs to stop shooting so many jumpers and pound inside more. His footwork and agility is too good to take stepbacks and whatnot. He does it when rebounding so how about you just do the same on offense?

[magnax1]

Amar'e would be sick on Miami because he would clean up a lot of those missed drives by LeBron and Wade. He'd fit much better in a PnR situation as well. I think Bosh will come around but he needs to stop shooting so many jumpers and pound inside more. His footwork and agility is too good to take stepbacks and whatnot. He does it when rebounding so how about you just do the same on offense?
True, I don't really remember him playing on the perimeter near as much as he did these past two games. Not that he posted up all the time, but he used to play around the baseline area a lot more if I remember correctly.

[thejumpa]

True, I don't really remember him playing on the perimeter near as much as he did these past two games. Not that he posted up all the time, but he used to play around the baseline area a lot more if I remember correctly.

Yup. I think a lot of that had to do with the fact that he was the #1 option. IIRC, wasn't Bargnani the starting C? Another shooting C. Bosh had his set spots and would go to the work and have more chances to do his thing. More chances to experimate and "go wild" aka go inside. All the shooting and LeBron/Wade penerating has him wanting to go back to his bread and butter...rebounding and mid range J's.

As far as Amar'e/Bosh on Miami goes, Amar'e would fit better in terms of inside scoring but he doesn't like rebounding and can't spell the word defense. I'd say it's good trade off in the long run...

[Sham]

Ama're was 2 for 3 from 3 point land today..

[Omar_Little]

seriously, how the fukk did bosh get 110 mil? lmfao, he trolled the heat hard

[305Baller]

His numbers dont concern me really. I just hate...hate seeing bigmen who arent Dirk shoot 3s. Seeing him take that stepback 3 towards the end kinda made me cringe. It just isnt the type of thing I want to see out of my key bigman. 18 footers,...3s...

I know amare has been known to take a 3. But Amare can be a legit every time down the court force around the basket. Bosh? I dont know. If I cant post you up and feed you to get us through nights the guards arent shooting well...the **** is the point of having a 100 million dollar power forward?

The guy playing off two wings on his level should be living in the paint, getting easy baskets all over, and generally feasting on the one on ones.

With Wade/Lebrons ability to drive and find people who come open....Amare would be a walking highlight reel on that team.

Bosh almost seems...extra. Like its 2 great players...then an extra guy who doesnt fit but is too good to not sign given the chance. Itsl ike they took 2 elite players then reached into a sack of names of stars and got Bosh...sure you are gonna take it. But if you can pick and choose?

If I can select from the whole league I dont think Bosh would be in my top 5 guys to be the bigman on that team.

Strictly talking offense...I think Boozer would be better too. Boozer doesnt play regular defense so Bosh makes more sense. But on offense Boozer would do work on this team.

Bosh will come around. Probably put up 15-19 a game. Shoot 55% or so. I know he will get his. Just doesnt seem like an ideal situation.

Well since Bosh signed second (before Bron) then your theory has no base. I like Boozers toughness but what Bosh showed in the pre was enough to convince me that Cb1 has the skillset to be a more efficient player. Plus his D is essential.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

I think Amare would be better for the pick and roll. Bosh seems to be really improving his defense though.

[Soundwave]

If it doesn't work out with Bosh they can always deal him for a very nice package in return, but he'll probably settle in.

This is going to take 15-20 games before all of the big 3 start to really get comfortable IMO.

It's not like the 72-10 Bulls at all, where Jordan had come back for 20+ games the season before and had already played with Pippen and under Phil for years.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

...rather see Amare in Miami too?

Just...Lebron/Wade/Amare seems like it would be so much more....aggressive.

I can see Amare even with 2 other stars out there beasting guysi n the paint and getting look after look under the basket. I could see him buying into defense for a ring. Id be like 20% more hyped about watching this team with Amare in the mix.

Bosh just...eh. Very good. But another guy who is at his best 14-18 feet from the basket? But hes a 4? I know amare added aj umper to his game and is best facing up but....

I think Amares mix of one on one ability around the basket and aggression would make this team just...fearsome to play. And better to watch.

If thats just my disregard of Boshs supposed greatness blinding me...fee lfree to say so. I wont argue.

Guy just doesnt do it for me.

What? You don't think Amare would be minimialized too? The only difference would be that their interior defense and rebounding would be even worse.

[Micku]

Patience.

I'm sure he'll adjust to the offensive. He is good on the defensive end and rebounds. He is just not hitting it inside, which I think he should. But he likes the jump shot.

[bdreason]

Bosh is a better defender, and can score with similar effeciency. He's also a better rebounder, and better at scoring without the ball.

There is no logical reason anyone should prefer Amare to Bosh on this Heat squad.

[Snoop_Cat]

Two quick points regarding Bosh.

1) He's an improved defender, but let's not get carried away now and start to claim he's a very good defensive player
2) He's soft. Yes, the term soft is overused and open to interpretation but anyone who saw the game vs. Boston knows what I'm talking about. It's like he shies away from players who seek contact and/or is aggressive (which coincidentally happens to be the majority of elite PFs). When I see him on both offense and defense, he's efficient and gets his numbers but he's so gun shy. KG had him backing up and throwing up long shots; it's not 2004 KG, Bosh should be able to take it in more often to him, especially since its a lot of 1-1.

[mayo'sgrizz]

ya i dont think hes the ideal pf tht the heat necessarily need. he is a veryyy talented player but not quite a superstar imo. but maybe he figures out the system better and improves and puts up big numbers but its been a rough start for him

[GOBB]

Bosh is Gasol if he were black. Amare is the kind of guy who isnt afraid of getting close to the basket.

[Carbine]

Also, it's three games with a brand new team for him. Let's not get carried away with his otherwise subpar offense so far - he'll get that straightened out.


Bosh is Gasol if he were black. Amare is the kind of guy who isnt afraid of getting close to the basket.

That's the dumbest thing you've ever said.

[L.Kizzle]

I think Amare would be better for the pick and roll. Bosh seems to be really improving his defense though.
Well, he has no other option, he's not gettin anything ran for him. Play D or get yp ass on the bench.

[GOBB]

That's the dumbest thing you've ever said.

Both are finess bigs. Both have been labelled soft and have moments supporting that. Its hardly dumb. I mean if you want to nitpick. Bosh is a better scorer, whereas Gasol a better defender. But the criticism both recieve are one and the same. Gasoft wasnt created out of nowhere.

Smarten up Carbine, this is you throwing an interception. I'm taking it to the house. And i'll pick up the flag for celebrating in the endzone.

:banana:

[Gotham's Finest]

Bosh is Gasol if he were black. Amare is the kind of guy who isnt afraid of getting close to the basket.
I'd say he's more of a David Lee with slightly better defense.

[Kblaze8855]

No I dont think amare would be minimized. You dont exactly need to run plays for him to stand out. Amare is a monster and he wants people to know it. If you are showing him the disrespect of treating him like a 3rd option(even if he is) I think he would find a way to show his worth. He would be out there flashing to the basket out of nowhere with Lebron finding him. He sees Wade drive hes not standing at 16 feet...hes coming in hoping his man steps off for a moment so he can get fed and bang on someone.

Amare makes the kinds of plays it doesnt matter what offense you run. Amare wouldnt be passive enough to stand and wait to shoot jumpers I dont think.

[Carbine]

Pau isn't soft anymore. He's not Charles Oakley but he's not getting banged around.

Pau is much, much more effective with his back to the basket. Better post scorer. Better passer from the post. Better interior defender. Better rebounder. Doesn't take the majority of his shots outside the paint.

Bosh, on the other hand...shoots jumpers and fade aways.

I'd say both of them right now play a different style and it's easy to see.

[GOBB]

Pau isn't soft anymore. He's not Charles Oakley but he's not getting banged around.

Pau is much, much more effective with his back to the basket. Better post scorer. Better passer from the post. Better interior defender. Better rebounder. Doesn't take the majority of his shots outside the paint.

Bosh, on the other hand...shoots jumpers and fade aways.

I'd say both of them right now play a different style and it's easy to see.

:oldlol: Isnt soft anymore? STFU.

Gasol and Bosh are even par passing out of the post. No need to mention interior defense. I already explained Gasol is a better defender whereas Bosh a better scorer. Better rebounder? Based on what??? Get out of here.

[Carbine]

I'm convinced you're playing devils advocate.

[LA_Showtime]

Bosh is acting like he doesn't belong, which is ridiculous, because he's got the skill set of a top 10-15 player. He'll eventually get comfortable, at which point the rest of the NBA is in trouble.

And seriously? Gasol is a much better passer than Bosh.

[yeaaaman]

No I dont think amare would be minimized. You dont exactly need to run plays for him to stand out. Amare is a monster and he wants people to know it. If you are showing him the disrespect of treating him like a 3rd option(even if he is) I think he would find a way to show his worth. He would be out there flashing to the basket out of nowhere with Lebron finding him. He sees Wade drive hes not standing at 16 feet...hes coming in hoping his man steps off for a moment so he can get fed and bang on someone.

Amare makes the kinds of plays it doesnt matter what offense you run. Amare wouldnt be passive enough to stand and wait to shoot jumpers I dont think.

For me it's three games into the season I think he's still trying to find his niche. You earlier mentioned playoff success but if Amare was on the Raptors how do we know he wouldn't have done the same thing? I don't think thats a good way to compare players in different situations. Furthermore, Amare might be better at banging but I truly believe Bosh will find his post up game as he gets more comfortable.

As well, Amare is going to be 28 next month, Bosh is 26 and has suffered no major injury in his career whereas we all know Amare has.

At the end of my season I'll review how well Bosh fits in based on his results, Amare meanwhile may not even win a playoff game this year.

If Pau continued to waste away in Memphis how would we be regarding him?

Again, I'm sure Bosh will show his worth in due time.

[GOBB]

I'm convinced you're playing devils advocate.

Hardly. I'll be sure to inbox you the games, instances Gasol goes limp. In the meantime figure out how Gasol is a better rebounder for me. Like to read that.

[red1]

CB is just adjusting to his new team, i'm sure he will be a crucial part of the miami heat's success this year. Bosh is a beast, miami fans will love him.

[ashbelly]

No I dont think amare would be minimized. You dont exactly need to run plays for him to stand out. Amare is a monster and he wants people to know it. If you are showing him the disrespect of treating him like a 3rd option(even if he is) I think he would find a way to show his worth. He would be out there flashing to the basket out of nowhere with Lebron finding him. He sees Wade drive hes not standing at 16 feet...hes coming in hoping his man steps off for a moment so he can get fed and bang on someone.

Amare makes the kinds of plays it doesnt matter what offense you run. Amare wouldnt be passive enough to stand and wait to shoot jumpers I dont think.

Amare shy's away from rebounding the Ball, this is a crucial part for the Miami heat. Bosh today had 10 rebounds, amare will rebound hard every other 4 games while bosh is consistent.. We all saw what he can do in the preseason, he was averaging 18 ppg, he's yet to score more than 12 PPG in the regular season, which i think he can do very easily without demanding the ball too much like he did in the preseason. Bosh meshes perfectly with miami's agenda.

How about that underated guy Haslem ? He had 11 pts and 11 Rebounds tonight. :rockon:

[Lakers13]

I believe he needs the ball more to be productive, but with two ball dominant players on this team already, I just dont see how this guy will post anything higher then 18 points a game this year.

[Nash-tastic]

LeBron + Wade + Amar'e = FTs galore

But Bosh has really been stepping up on the DEFENSIVE end this season, he has really improved and has better length than Amar'e to block/alter shots, his rebounding is also MUCH better than Amar'e so Bosh is PROBABLY a better fit

[Samurai Swoosh]

I too think they'd definetely be more fearsome, and entertaining with Amare Stoudemire instead of Chris Bosh. Bosh is more a half court player exclusively. Amare can play in the half court, dominates around the basket with post moves or face ups with more regularity, finishes at the rim WAY stronger, and can run the break too. Bosh can't do all that as well as Amare.

[Nash-tastic]

I too think they'd definetely be more fearsome, and entertaining with Amare Stoudemire instead of Chris Bosh. Bosh is more a half court player exclusively. Amare can play in the half court, dominates around the basket with post moves or face ups with more regularity, finishes at the rim WAY stronger, and can run the break too. Bosh can't do all that as well as Amare.
But Amare complains in the half-court :oldlol:

[catch24]

His game will pickup. Just give it some time. I fully expect him to end the season anywhere around 18ppg on excellent efficiency.

[lilojmayo]

His game will pickup. Just give it some time. I fully expect him to end the season anywhere around 18ppg on excellent efficiency.

Agreed, but Amare is the better individual player, even though he isn't a great rebounder persay. He would have made a much nasty trio.

I think Bosh's softness and love of the midrange jumper will be the downfall to the Heat looking to the Celtics in the playoffs this year.

[ILLsmak]

That was me. What's the difference between the 2? Shareef was always able to give you buckets, somewhere around 20/9 every season but never really took a team anywhere. Up until this point in his career, can that description not fit on Bosh? How many playoff series has he won? games?

I think it's a great comparison... never even thought of it, but it's spot on.

-Smak

[Kblaze8855]

I 9imagine part of Bosh scoring a lot in the preseason was Wade not playing. With both of them in the game there is never a reason to give him the ball to operate if hesn ot doing it in the post. He cant create a better shot than the ycan from 12 feet out. Which is far too often where he is. A jump shooting bigman who isnt on a dirk level of it isnt needed in that offense. Haslem can do that. If Bosh isnt getting easy baskets there is no reason to give him the ball.

Amare...I think Amare would be feasting on the looks generated by playing with 2 slashers on the level Bosh has right now.

I have no doubt Bosh will have big games. Might score 30 next game and have someone who thinks im saying something im not bump this with an emoticon as if I didnt think Bosh could score.

But I feel like amare would be far less minimized by playing off these guys. They can win it all with Bosh. They would win it all without a 3rd star though.

I dont think Bosh adds as much to the team in reality as he does on paper. If it were David west...I dont know that they win less games. And I say that knowing Bosh is better than Davis West. But a lot of what Makes Bosh be a star he cant do on the Heat. Or at least has no reason 2. What do they gain by a 3rd player facing up from 18 feet...and being worse at it than the big 2?

They would gain a lot from a guy like Amare playing off them looking for easy shots.

Bosh has a somewhat superfluous skillset to be in a lineup with these guys.

[hayden695]

I think Amare would have been more exciting but Bosh will be better for them. Amare's D, is too bad. I know with Wade and Lebron on the perimeter and whoever else they sub in on the perimeter they will have good D out there but all the top teams have a good post scorer, so they obv need D down there. Bosh wasn't too great either in the season, but during the Olympics he was awesome. He just had to carry the the offense too much. Also he is a better rebounder.


I have no doubt Bosh will become a great offensive player for them though. He can create his own shot, feed off drive and kick, and his off ball movement isn't that bad. Just let him get used to the system.

My only problems with him on offense was his inability to deal with double teams, which won't happen here. And his settling for J's, maybe Riles/Spo/Wade will tune him in though.

[G-train]

Amare would be minimally better offensively and a downgrade in everything else, most importantly compatibility as a person/leader and various other intangibles.

[LA_Showtime]

I believe he needs the ball more to be productive, but with two ball dominant players on this team already, I just dont see how this guy will post anything higher then 18 points a game this year.

I'm actually shocked at how this year has begun. I thought Bosh had the potential to average around 20-22 per game, and possibly lead the Heat in scoring. Right now it looks like Wade and LeBron are simply taking turns attacking the defense and whenever they're bored give Bosh touches in the mid-post.

[hayden695]

I'm actually shocked at how this year has begun. I thought Bosh had the potential to average around 20-22 per game, and possibly lead the Heat in scoring. Right now it looks like Wade and LeBron are simply taking turns attacking the defense and whenever they're bored give Bosh touches in the mid-post.
You have to think, there hasn't really been a team like this. It is hard to guage what type of game plan to make when you are a revolutionary team (for this decade atleast) by midseason they will figure out what works for them. Right now they are just doing what they know will work good (not great) which is feed lebron and wade.

[mikek85]

defense > offense. Amare is a huge liability on defense, it simply won't work for getting a ring. Amare is also stubborn, not a good locker room guy. Bosh was the right choice imo. Time will tell.

[LJJ]

Bosh works harder on the glass and on defense, but somehow compared to Stoudemire he is still the "soft" one. Look what throwing down a couple of nasty dunks can do for your reputation.

Stoudemire is slightly more physical than Bosh on offense, but between them he is clearly more soft.

[Kblaze8855]

PEople gotta stop acting like Bosh is some outstanding defender. Or rebounder for that matter. hes been at or below the 9 rebounds Amare averages for his career 4 times.

Players often are what the team stresses. What they are asked to be. For all the talk about amare needed to be better on D...he spent most of his career with a coach who didnt even discuss it in practice. And now hes with him again. amare has been asked to be a scorer. But hes proven capable of rebounding. Making plays on defense.

If you can go get 30/11 and 25/12 in two 10 or more game playoff runs...you can rebound. Last years run proves no more negatives about him than the 07 run proved positive.

In the right system virtually anyone can contribute to good defense. And guys as athletic and physical as amare can generally rebound if its stressed.

And its not like there is any evidence Bosh brings any kind of real defensive impact anyway. The Raptors have not been a good defense since 2004. They just gave up 106 a game on 47% shooting with Bosh. Man to man D is great as part of a good defensive team. But man to man D may be a real issue 10-15 times a night. You play defense 80-100 plays a game.

The system and your ability to play in it matters more than one on one. Especially for a bigman. Closer you play to the basket the more you do to help your teammates and the less you generally have to do man to man. And there is little in Boshs history to suggest he just...brings a defensive mentality to a team. This isnt Kevin Garnett we are talking about.

Difference there is bigger man to man than it would be with good coaching and players buying in on a team. To win a ring? Worse defenders than Amare have come around.

[Noyze]

...rather see Amare in Miami too?

Just...Lebron/Wade/Amare seems like it would be so much more....aggressive.

I can see Amare even with 2 other stars out there beasting guysi n the paint and getting look after look under the basket. I could see him buying into defense for a ring. Id be like 20% more hyped about watching this team with Amare in the mix.

Bosh just...eh. Very good. But another guy who is at his best 14-18 feet from the basket? But hes a 4? I know amare added aj umper to his game and is best facing up but....

I think Amares mix of one on one ability around the basket and aggression would make this team just...fearsome to play. And better to watch.

If thats just my disregard of Boshs supposed greatness blinding me...fee lfree to say so. I wont argue.

Guy just doesnt do it for me.

One thing for sure, Id' rather see pick-and-roll alot more then pick-and-pop. Bosh is soft and goes to the rim soft.

[the_wise_one]

...rather see Amare in Miami too?

Just...Lebron/Wade/Amare seems like it would be so much more....aggressive.

I can see Amare even with 2 other stars out there beasting guysi n the paint and getting look after look under the basket. I could see him buying into defense for a ring. Id be like 20% more hyped about watching this team with Amare in the mix.

Bosh just...eh. Very good. But another guy who is at his best 14-18 feet from the basket? But hes a 4? I know amare added aj umper to his game and is best facing up but....

I think Amares mix of one on one ability around the basket and aggression would make this team just...fearsome to play. And better to watch.

If thats just my disregard of Boshs supposed greatness blinding me...fee lfree to say so. I wont argue.

Guy just doesnt do it for me.

Dude, they only play with one basketball. Amare's a ball hog. So is Wade.

[the_wise_one]

Bosh needs the ball and a few dribbles to be effective, plus a significant portion of his offensive arsenal seems to involve turnaround jumpshots outside the paint.

But the main issue is that he needs the ball for several seconds to make a move, whereas Amare is one of the best off-ball offensive players.

Amare's ability to cut to the right place at the right time, while being able to catch even bad passes would make him a better offensive fit for the Heat.

Lebron, Wade and Bosh are all one-on-one players. Keep some shooters in there, and change Bosh for one of the league's best off-ball finishers - that would be an almost perfect scoring lineup.

Nash made Amare. Without Nash, he's just another ballhog cluttering the league.

[Sarcastic]

Bosh is gonna be exposed as just a barely above average player in Miami. He wanted to be on TV, and didn't care about his stats. Well, I hope he is comfortable with 14 and 7, and being on TV everyday, because that is what he is gonna get.

[Kblaze8855]

Dude, they only play with one basketball. Amare's a ball hog. So is Wade.

Im not gonna act like I watched 30 raptors games a year...

But from what ive seen Bosh is a worse ball stopper than Amare. Amare doesnt pass once hes got the ball in a spot he likes to attack from...but hes decisive.

[LJJ]

PEople gotta stop acting like Bosh is some outstanding defender. Or rebounder for that matter. hes been at or below the 9 rebounds Amare averages for his career 4 times.

Players often are what the team stresses. What they are asked to be. For all the talk about amare needed to be better on D...he spent most of his career with a coach who didnt even discuss it in practice. And now hes with him again. amare has been asked to be a scorer. But hes proven capable of rebounding. Making plays on defense.

If you can go get 30/11 and 25/12 in two 10 or more game playoff runs...you can rebound. Last years run proves no more negatives about him than the 07 run proved positive.

In the right system virtually anyone can contribute to good defense. And guys as athletic and physical as amare can generally rebound if its stressed.

And its not like there is any evidence Bosh brings any kind of real defensive impact anyway. The Raptors have not been a good defense since 2004. They just gave up 106 a game on 47% shooting with Bosh. Man to man D is great as part of a good defensive team. But man to man D may be a real issue 10-15 times a night. You play defense 80-100 plays a game.

The system and your ability to play in it matters more than one on one. Especially for a bigman. Closer you play to the basket the more you do to help your teammates and the less you generally have to do man to man. And there is little in Boshs history to suggest he just...brings a defensive mentality to a team. This isnt Kevin Garnett we are talking about.

Difference there is bigger man to man than it would be with good coaching and players buying in on a team. To win a ring? Worse defenders than Amare have come around.

Slow down buddy, no one is saying Bosh is any kind of "outstanding" defender. But Amare has been awful in that regard and Bosh at least puts in his work.

The argument for Amare being a better fit just isn't there. Miami needs rebounding and defense and given the only thing we can go by, their historical performance, Bosh is flat out better in those categories compared to Amare Stoudemire. The only thing you have left is that Stoudemire, given the right system, might show some capabilities that he never showed before. What kind of an argument is that really?

Your hatred of Chris Bosh is suspicious really.

[Mr Clutch Melo]

Nash made Amare. Without Nash, he's just another ballhog cluttering the league.

What a myth. Amare was 22/9 guy BEFORE Nash

[Kblaze8855]

I dont hate chris Bosh. I hate Karl Malone.

Bosh just doesnt impress me. Hes pretty much Vin Baker....

And Amare rebounding like Bosh isnt exactly a hypothetical. amare has been a 20/10 player in 32 minutes and change a night. Bosh averaged 8.7 rebounds in 08. The situation you are in, the players around you, and the coaching has a lot to do with it. Amare has gone out and put up damn near 30-10 for long stretches(for one...29/10 a game for 2 and a half months in 08). He isnt a guy who just cant rebound. He averaged 29/13 the last time he played 40 minutes a game for a month.

Amare rebounding if he has to isnt an idea without evidence.

And I have to ask again...if Bosh is the superstar bigman on a team that gives up 106 a game on 47% shooting...what good was his defense doing?

Amare as is often the case with guys who get such a label is not THAT bad a defender. Hes a lazy defender especially considering his physical talents.

But ive watched guys from Ben Gordon to antoine Walker play major minutes on great defenses. You just have to buy in, have the right teammates, and coaching. Id take the potential offensive boost and risk the defensive difference...mostly because team D isnt as simple as which single player plays better defense.

Amare is no worse a defender than Boozer. And Bosh is maybe a 6.5 if they are 5s. Boshs defense isnt really a calling card. At all. Bosh isnt gonna be the reason your team plays good defense and Amare isnt gonna be the reason your team cant play defense. People act like he is...but I must have missed the outstanding D played by the 06 suns who didnt have him around. They didnt play D because their coach didnt stress it. The Heat do...because they do. The Heat wouldnt turn into the suns with Amare. You cant make a good D from 1 player and 1 player wont ruin it either.

[comerb]

...rather see Amare in Miami too?




Amare is a blackhole. Bosh works much better in that team because

1) He plays better defense
2) He has a better jumper and more range
3) He is a better passer; and is unselfish
4) He doesn't need to dominate the ball
5) He is a better rebounder

Bosh has had a couple of poor shooting performances to start the year... it happens. If you think he's going to continue shooting ~35% from the floor, your sadly mistaken. He'll show why he was commanding a max contract in FA here pretty soon, I have no doubt.

[comerb]

Bosh is gonna be exposed as just a barely above average player in Miami. He wanted to be on TV, and didn't care about his stats. Well, I hope he is comfortable with 14 and 7, and being on TV everyday, because that is what he is gonna get.

I imagine a couple rings and the money from Heat sponsors will sooth his troubled soul.

[Kblaze8855]

I kinda want to look into it again...but I feel like Mark Cuban had some stat guys work up something years ago that showed dirk, Amare, and Brandon Bass as the best jump shooting bigmen. Not that id actually want amare shooting jumpers anyway.

And Bosh is a better passer. But that is another skill im not sure the bigman ideal for the Heat would need much of. The yarent gonna play off him in the post. He will mostly be passing out of faceup situations and on the move...and why would they have him doing those things when Wade and Lebron both do them better?

their ideal #3 I think should be a guy who is finishing everything more than starting it.

And I dont think Amare has ever dominated the ball. If he did hed probably put up 30 a game. Amare barely passes and he shoots only 12-15 times a game for the last 5 years. Amare when he gets it in his spot looks to score...but he goes long stretches without getting looks. Always has. And when he was wish Nash he would get the ball right in his lap for probably half of the few shots he did take. He might just go on one one and look to score 10-11 times a game out of 80-100 posessions.

Amare is a blackhole in the way Kevin Mchale was. But I dont see him as a guy who dominates the ball at all. I bet if we could work out average time spent with the ball relative to your points...he would have one of the best rates in the league.

Blackhole and ballhog are not the same thing.

And I dare say the ideal bigman to be on the end of Wade and Lebrons passes probably should be looking to score quickly. What else would he be doing? Lebron and wade arent off the ball players. They stand and watch.

Amare wouldnt keep the ball from anyone on the Heat any more than he did on the suns. And nobody on the suns who needed the ball failed t oget it. That was on Nash...but I dont think Wade or Lebron are gonna have any trouble getting looks. And nobody else on that team does anything with the ball anyway. Haslem, Jones, House, and Z catch and shoot. Miller we dont know yet. Carlos pump fakes and steps into 3 jumpers a game.

Wade and Lebron are about the only people who need the ball on that team. And the ywould get it no matter who the #3 was.

[Mr Clutch Melo]

Whats up with people hyping up Bosh and his D ? BEFORE Bosh joined the Heat, he and Amare were both looked at equally bad defenders, now suddenly Bosh is KG 2.0 beacause he plays on a team filled with good defenders. :facepalm

And people, Bosh needs the ball in his hands MUCH more than Amare.

[All Net]

Problem with Bosh is he is purely a mid range shooter. Guy can't play in the post and as good of a rebounder as he can be compared to Amare...Amare does bang inside and can attack alot better. Miami not having any post options whatsoever could be a problem.

[comerb]

Whats up with people hyping up Bosh and his D ? BEFORE Bosh joined the Heat, he and Amare were both looked at equally bad defenders, now suddenly Bosh is KG 2.0 beacause he plays on a team filled with good defenders. :facepalm

And people, Bosh needs the ball in his hands MUCH more than Amare.

Bosh never was poor defensively, he was just on a terrible defensive team. Amare is poor defensively.

That's not saying that Bosh is an amazing defender, but he is hands down better than Amare.

[comerb]

Problem with Bosh is he is purely a mid range shooter. Guy can't play in the post and as good of a rebounder as he can be compared to Amare...Amare does bang inside and can attack alot better. Miami not having any post options whatsoever could be a problem.


Wade has an excellent post game.

[blondie]

It's very early but I agree and was wondering myself if Bosh has sort of been the product of being a default "star" because Toronto had nobody else. Dude just hasn't impressed. Maybe he'll pick it up, who knows.
This is the case, even ricky davis averaged 20ppg a few times. Bosh was helped out by the refs in t-dot to keep them in games, getting alot of freethrows he didn't deserve considering all he does all day is shoot 14-18 foot jumpers and he has no consistent low post arsenal.

[comerb]

This is the case, even ricky davis averaged 20ppg a few times. Bosh was helped out by the refs in t-dot to keep them in games, getting alot of freethrows he didn't deserve considering all he does all day is shoot 14-18 foot jumpers and he has no consistent low post arsenal.


That's retarded. Bosh isn't going to continue to shoot 33% on the season, I'm sorry to disappoint you.

He's in a shooting slump, he'll pull out of it soon.

[blondie]

That's retarded. Bosh isn't going to continue to shoot 33% on the season, I'm sorry to disappoint you.

He's in a shooting slump, he'll pull out of it soon.
I know he will shoot better than 33%. His shot is really good.

Im just saying when in toronto averaging 20/9 he was hyped up as a top PF by people who only looked at stats, when in reality SOMEONE had to get all those points and Bosh's offensive game was mostly spot up 18 footers from Jose Calderon or turnaround fadeaways, in other words he's a soft player who possibly doesn't deserve the hype he gets

[comerb]

I know he will shoot better than 33%. His shot is really good.

Im just saying when in toronto averaging 20/9 he was hyped up as a top PF by people who only looked at stats, when in reality SOMEONE had to get all those points and Bosh's offensive game was mostly spot up 18 footers from Jose Calderon or turnaround fadeaways, in other words he's a soft player who possibly doesn't deserve the hype he gets

What hype? What PFs do you think are better than him from an offensive perspective?

Amare & Gasol are pretty much it. And while Gasol is a more complete player, Bosh has a far more solid all-around game than Amare. Duncan & Garnett are obviously much better defensively, but they've lost a step on the offensive end.

He's a top PF in the league, there really isn't any arguing it.

[blondie]

What hype? What PFs do you think are better than him from an offensive perspective?

Amare & Gasol are pretty much it. And while Gasol is a more complete player, Bosh has a far more solid all-around game than Amare. Duncan & Garnett are obviously much better defensively, but they've lost a step on the offensive end.

He's a top PF in the league, there really isn't any arguing it.
I disagree man, I'd put Al Jefferson and even Zach Randolph ahead of Bosh. Z-bo plays defense now, on top of that he has low post moves, and is a much stronger rebounder and isn't a soft ***** like Bosh is. Al Jefferson put up multiple 20/12 seasons going against double teams every night in Minnesota. I have rarely if ever seen Bosh doubled in Toronto. Like Z-bo he also has a consistent high percentage low post game that Bosh sorely lacks.

[PurpleChuck]

I disagree man, I'd put Al Jefferson and even Zach Randolph ahead of Bosh. Z-bo plays defense now, on top of that he has low post moves, and is a much stronger rebounder and isn't a soft ***** like Bosh is. Al Jefferson put up multiple 20/12 seasons going against double teams every night in Minnesota. I have rarely if ever seen Bosh doubled in Toronto.

Now that is just pure trolling and hating.:facepalm

[blondie]

Now that is just pure trolling and hating.:facepalm
Zach Randolph is a different player since he came to Memphis but Im assuming you haven't watched any grizzly games. He is no longer a black hole and he now works hard on defense and the boards. He shows more rebounding tenacity in a week than Bosh does in a season. He is also a much better scorer than CB4

[Mr Clutch Melo]

Bosh never was poor defensively, he was just on a terrible defensive team. Amare is poor defensively.

That's not saying that Bosh is an amazing defender, but he is hands down better than Amare.

Bosh is poor defensively as well., anyway having Amare instead Bosh would have helped the Heat much more. Just look at how scared Bosh gets when he meets a good player. Amare just dropped 27 points on KG. Bosh is to soft and scared of being physical:facepalm

[BFRESH44]

Bosh is poor defensively as well.

He really isn't.

Per Hollinger via ESPN's "Heat Index"...


How good has the Heat's defense been so far? When the opponents run an isolation set and are guarded by one of the Big 3, they're shooting a putrid 16.7 percent. Should we be surprised? Among the 77 players who defended at least 125 isolation plays last season, Dwyane Wade ranked first in the league in field goal percentage allowed. LeBron James was 5th and -- here's the biggest shocker -- Chris Bosh was 7th among 77. (Courtesy of ESPN Stats & Info)


I've always been more of a fan of Amare's game(offensivly, atleast). He seemingly is more comfortable playing off the ball. He's an exceptional pick and roll player, and a much sharper cutter to the rim. He's better and more coordinated athlete...

However Bosh is certainly a better defender. Specifically on the Pick N Roll..

Bosh was aggressively 'showing' the pick N roll, and hard closing shooters like a mad man last night.

I'm sure Riley had reservations on Amar'e in regards to if he would've bought into the "Miami Heat Culture"(defense, defense, defense). Also, I'm sure the knee was a big concern internally for alot of teams. Guy has had the dreaded mircofracture, and that could creep up again at any time.

Steve Kerr on Amar'e knee...



“There is a shelf-life with microfracture surgery,” Kerr said. “Amar’e is now five years removed and there’s a lot of wear-and-tear — he’s played big minutes. We looked at the league the last six, seven years and we were very afraid of a Jermaine O’Neal situation, where the Pacers just got hamstrung by a long contract. ... In our situation in Phoenix it didn’t make sense to extend out for five years, but the Knicks situation I understand the gamble and the risk and I think they made a good move.”
“From Amare’s standpoint it was very important for him to get that guaranteed money because he’s more aware of his health than anybody,” Kerr said.

The big question about Amar’e — and with our situation Phoenix last year — was will the knee holdup? Short term, at least, he’s an All-Star.”

[niko]

I laugh when people tout how Amare wouldn't fit because of his rebounding. It's what, fractionally under Bosh? That 1 rebound a game is the key to the title? Amare is more agressive than Bosh so definitely he'd fit better offensively. Bosh needs the Ball to be most effective, and they can't play through Bosh, that would be silly when you have both Lebron and Wade. To be most effective Bosh would need to be on the blocks or mixing it up inside and he won't do that. He's still going to be a very nice compliment though. His 14/7 is just going to be the sacrifice he had to make to his game, its not going to cost them a title shot.

[ShaqAttack3234]

I disagree man, I'd put Al Jefferson and even Zach Randolph ahead of Bosh. Z-bo plays defense now, on top of that he has low post moves, and is a much stronger rebounder and isn't a soft ***** like Bosh is. Al Jefferson put up multiple 20/12 seasons going against double teams every night in Minnesota. I have rarely if ever seen Bosh doubled in Toronto. Like Z-bo he also has a consistent high percentage low post game that Bosh sorely lacks.

I'll always dislike Zach for his disgusting play when he was in New York, so I won't address that ridiculous statement about him being better than Bosh because I admit I'm biased.

But onto Bosh vs Jefferson? I don't even like Bosh, in fact, I'd rather watch Al, but this statement is completely ridiculous, you cite stats, but Bosh's are better and he did so while leading his teams to victory.

Bosh averaged 23/11 with 2.5 apg on 50% shooting and 79% from the line(58 TS%) in 2007. His team was 41-28 with him and 6-7 without him.

Bosh averaged 22/9 with 2.6 apg on 49% shooting and 84% from the line(59 TS%) in 2008. His team was 37-30 with him and 4-11 without him.

Bosh averaged 24/11 on 52% shooting and 80% from the line(58 TS%). His team was 35-35 with him and 5-7 without him.

Jefferson averaged 21/11 on 50% shooting and 72% from the line(54 TS%) in 2008. His team was 21-61.

Jefferson averaged 23/11 on 59% shooting and 74% from the line(53 TS%) in 2009. His team was 17-33 with him and 7-25 without him.

Bosh isn't a number 1 option on a contending team, but Jefferson hasn't even proven he can be one on a semi-competitive team.

And you slam Bosh for his numbers with Miami yet Al is averaging 13/8 on 42% shooting on an 0-2 Jazz team.

I don't even like Bosh, I've argued against him numerous times in the Gasol vs Bosh threads, but it's obvious that what you're saying is the typical garbage that trolls spew.

[sic]

Pat Riley is no fool. If he had only the next one or two seasons in mind, Amare would have been a candidate.

[Fatal9]

Bosh looks really bad with the Heat. He has always needed isos to face up and draw fouls or shoot jumpers, but he needs his time to start his offense. He isn't like Amare in that you drop the ball off and he's going to start attacking right away. Plus it's a huge adjustment for a guy who always got the ball on command to play a third option role and being effective/involved in less than half the touches he used to get. He looked good in some pre-season games with LeBron though. Midrange game was unstoppable with LeBron feeding him on open looks. He's still kind of going through the Gasol '08 phase though, especially in that Celtics game. He had never played in a game with that much hype/intensity and mentally he just couldn't stand up to KG. That type of stuff will come with playing more big games though.

I think Amare would be a better fit in Miami and Bosh would be a better fit in NY, both teams would get better imo.

btw, did Bosh lose weight before this season? He looked about 10 lbs heavier at the start of last season (made an effort to bulk up). Seems like he focused on quickness over strength this off-season.

[The_Yearning]

Wade has an excellent post game.

Compared to who? LBJ?

[RAPSPURS]

I can see why concerns have been raised over Bosh but I can tell you that he really isn't all that soft.
He was in his first couple years but he's made great progress.
He has a great midrange game and is not afraid to drive to the hoop. He can be a pretty aggressive player down low.

My concern re: Bosh is his motivation... if his head isn't right and he's not motivated, he won't produce. Just look at what he did (or didn't do...) with the Raptors when he decided he wanted out. Going from the #1 guy to #3 must be a BIG challenge. Not sure if he'll be happy in that role....

:cheers:

[MeLO MvP 15]

Bosh is a better rebounder than Amar'e... also Bosh has a lot a higher potential to be a beast on defense... also Bosh is a better shooter, which you need with LeBron and Wade.. that doesn't even factor in age and injury history... I'd take Bosh

[50inchvertical]

Somebody mentioned ball stopping, which is also my problem with Bosh. Whether you like him or Amare more, you have to admit when Amare gets the ball he goes right into whatever his move is going to be. Bosh likes to get it, pivot, look at the defender, see the floor, jab step, jab step, up fake, jab step, it gives the d time to recover and key in on him

[Kblaze8855]

Bosh looks really bad with the Heat. He has always needed isos to face up and draw fouls or shoot jumpers, but he needs his time to start his offense. He isn't like Amare in that you drop the ball off and he's going to start attacking right away.

This why I wonder why people call Amare a ballhog compared to Bosh.

Bosh is a straight ball stopper. He doesnt do anything quickly decision wise. Hes not...seflsih far as I can tell. But he takes a moment to do anything.

[airchibundo507]

This why I wonder why people call Amare a ballhog compared to Bosh.

Bosh is a straight ball stopper. He doesnt do anything quickly decision wise. Hes not...seflsih far as I can tell. But he takes a moment to do anything.

So having a post game is now a weakness??

[airchibundo507]

Somebody mentioned ball stopping, which is also my problem with Bosh. Whether you like him or Amare more, you have to admit when Amare gets the ball he goes right into whatever his move is going to be. Bosh likes to get it, pivot, look at the defender, see the floor, jab step, jab step, up fake, jab step, it gives the d time to recover and key in on him

I feel like Amare's moves are predetermined. He can't read the defense, which leads to him forcing himself to take tough shots. I also rarely ever see Amare pass the ball, even when he was on the Suns and was surrounded by a shooter at every position around him. He has a career 1.3 AST/2.6 TO ratio, which is pretty pathetic.

[Kblaze8855]

Im not talking about his post game. Im talking about him having the ball in general. Hes slow to act and his method of scoring takes a moment to result in a shot when he does act. I can see why he would score a lot when hes the teams best option by a mile. His scoring isnt ineffective. It just depends on having a lot of looks and nobody who is going to be annoyed waiting for him to do something with it.

Kinda like Adrian Dantley. Less effective. But similar in what they need to look their best.

[HisAirness3]

Bosh has never been that good. At best, he was a Top 15-20 player. He was never even close to Top 10.

I wouldn't be surprise if the Heat end up trading this guy at some point of this Lebron-Wade era. Bosh is already a playoff choker too, so it is not like he offers anything special.

[airchibundo507]

Im not talking about his post game. Im talking about him having the ball in general. Hes slow to act and his method of scoring takes a moment to result in a shot when he does act. I can see why he would score a lot when hes the teams best option by a mile. His scoring isnt ineffective. It just depends on having a lot of looks and nobody who is going to be annoyed waiting for him to do something with it.

Kinda like Adrian Dantley. Less effective. But similar in what they need to look their best.

I understand. The spacing already doesn't look great; holding the ball more gives the defense more time to adjust. I know how that feels with the kind of limited spacing Melo has had operating from the post in Denver.

[chazzy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKx3SxmhkTQ#t=01m27s

[RoTM]

I would take Amare over him in a second. Even the marketing would be better instead of Bron, Wade, and some guy from canada.

[nashisbest]

defense: bosh >> amare
offense: amare >> bosh

it really depends on what you lack. i think Miami need bosh more than amare

[pmj]

For most of the preseason, Bosh's 15 ft J was money, but it hasn't been on much yet. I don't think he needs to be some kind of great post presence, just hit his open shots, grab boards and defend. That's all we need, which is not Amare.

I just hope he has similar growth like Pau had shedding the soft label, being a great rebounder (which he pretty much already is), good defender, etc. I think Bosh and Gasol seem to have high BBall IQ's, and like Gasol, Bosh will have some superstar teammates to motivate him into what the team needs.

[Kellogs4toniee]

IU agree. And everybody is horribly overrating him throwing him in all these analogies to Jordan, Magic, Bird, etc. as if he is one of the best players in the L. Dude has won all of 1 playoff game in his career. He is more on par to becoming Shareef Abdur Rahim or Antoine Jamison, than Larry Bird and Magic Johnson.


wtF? :facepalm

Who are these "everybodies" you speak of?

[Teanett]

I 9imagine part of Bosh scoring a lot in the preseason was Wade not playing. With both of them in the game there is never a reason to give him the ball to operate if hesn ot doing it in the post. He cant create a better shot than the ycan from 12 feet out. Which is far too often where he is. A jump shooting bigman who isnt on a dirk level of it isnt needed in that offense. Haslem can do that. If Bosh isnt getting easy baskets there is no reason to give him the ball.



amen

[Papaya Petee]

IU agree. And everybody is horribly overrating him throwing him in all these analogies to Jordan, Magic, Bird, etc. as if he is one of the best players in the L. Dude has won all of 1 playoff game in his career. He is more on par to becoming Shareef Abdur Rahim or Antoine Jamison, than Larry Bird and Magic Johnson.
:wtf: Chris Bosh never ever ever ever ever ever ever... ever was compared to Larry or Magic

[Kblaze8855]

Im assuming he means the references to if Jordan would ever team up with Magic and Bird. Wade and Bosh being...Magic and Bird of today in that hypothetical. Which is quite common. It probably should have been would Jordan team up with Magic and....Larry nance or something. Tom Chambers. Terry Cummings. Not in style of play...but the level of player compared to the leagues best.

[Papaya Petee]

Yeah that would make a lot more sense. Something around top 15 player in the league.

[LastChanceToWin]

Bosh isn't even top 30 player in the league.

[50inchvertical]

:wtf: Chris Bosh never ever ever ever ever ever ever... ever was compared to Larry or Magic
Yes he has been. When talking about LeBron's legacy and everyone including MJ himself keeps saying, Mike wouldn't have joined forces with Larry and Magic. I know it's not a direct comparison of playing styles, but comparing them in terms of being the #2, #3 player in the league and again, it's a place that Bosh has no business being mentioned.

Bosh is more Shareef Abdur Rahim and Antawn Jamison than any top 5 player

[G-train]

Bosh's play last season was undoubtedly at a top 10 player level.
I watched multiple Raptors games and he dropped 24/11 with a number of insane games. Yeah he is face up, but he was much tougher last season than previously and often took hard drives and make tough finishes.
He was an elite power forward - and once he settles I expect him to become a 18/11 guy by midseason at very efficient %'s.

[G-train]

Yes he has been. When talking about LeBron's legacy and everyone including MJ himself keeps saying, Mike wouldn't have joined forces with Larry and Magic. I know it's not a direct comparison of playing styles, but comparing them in terms of being the #2, #3 player in the league and again, it's a place that Bosh has no business being mentioned.

Bosh is more Shareef Abdur Rahim and Antawn Jamison than any top 5 player

Nah I have never seen him compared directly to those guys.
Older players are just saying they wouldn't join other star players, you are reading too much into it.
Bosh is a star player, but EVERYONE knows he isn't top 5.

[G-train]

Im not talking about his post game. Im talking about him having the ball in general. Hes slow to act and his method of scoring takes a moment to result in a shot when he does act. I can see why he would score a lot when hes the teams best option by a mile. His scoring isnt ineffective. It just depends on having a lot of looks and nobody who is going to be annoyed waiting for him to do something with it.

Kinda like Adrian Dantley. Less effective. But similar in what they need to look their best.

Well that's a fair judgement in 3 games with a brand new team.
But this wasn't the case in 82 games last season. He was comfortable in the offence and made decisive and swift moves. This will happen in Miami once he becomes comfortable in the offence.

[T_Element]

Bosh does take a while to score but he is a slightly better scorer, much better rebounder and better defender than amare overall. However on this miami team I think Amare would be a better fit because of all the easy looks he could get from ducks and cuts to the basket.

However amare thinks hes better than he is...which could be an issue

[PullupJay]

seriously, how the fukk did bosh get 110 mil? lmfao, he trolled the heat hard
i don't get it, how did the big 3 get so much money? didn't they agree to take less? Amare got 100 mil. Bosh got 110? makes no sense:wtf:

[Laker Logic]

...rather see Amare in Miami too?

Just...Lebron/Wade/Amare seems like it would be so much more....aggressive.

I can see Amare even with 2 other stars out there beasting guysi n the paint and getting look after look under the basket. I could see him buying into defense for a ring. Id be like 20% more

hyped about watching this team with Amare in the mix.

Bosh just...eh. Very good. But another guy who is at his best 14-18 feet from the basket? But hes a 4? I know amare added aj umper to his game and is best facing up but....

I think Amares mix of one on one ability around the basket and aggression would make this team just...fearsome to play. And better to watch.If thats just my disregard of Boshs supposed greatness blinding me...fee lfree to say so. I wont argue.

Guy just doesnt do it for me.

The Heat would be better served by having a) a board crashing, defensive big man, or b) a back-to-the basket passing type with good midrange like Vlade/Brad Miller who could distribute to a slashing Lebron or Wade out of the post or high post.

Bosh looks like maybe what they need least - a primarily face up big man of the Ewing, Webber mold with no real appetite for the post who gets a respectable amount of boards/blocks on size alone but who doesn't have a nose for the ball coming off the glass.

Amare needs someone whose job 1 is to (Nash/Felton) feed him to be at his best and has gotten better from the midrange, but unless he's going to be the focal point of the offense (which he wouldn't on the Heat) it's almost redundant to have a guy who needs the ball in his hands at the rate he does to be effective at the 5 alongside Wade and Lebron.

And he wouldn't do much for what I predict will be their biggest problem for them against teams with size - stopping other bigs and cleaning the glass. Amare's like Bosh, in that his defense has gotten better, but you can't teach the kind of defensive presence they need in the middle.

Amare'd definitely make them more exciting - but you can't be running the break for 48 minutes, and what they need is a big to make them effective in the half court.

Regardless of whether they were available, the Heat need somebody like Noah, Kaman, Miller or Robin Lopez. Or Howard. He'd do.

[laronprofit9]

Chris Bosh's Last 5 Seasons before joining Heat

05-06: 22.5 ppg 9.2 rpg 2.6 apg 51%fg 82%FT 59%TS

06-07: 22.6 ppg 10.7rpg 2.5 apg 50%fg 79%FT 58%TS

07-08: 22.3 ppg 8.7 rpg 2.6 apg 49%fg 84%FT 59%TS

08-09: 22.7 ppg 10.0 rpg 2.5 apg 49%fg 82%FT 57%TS

09-10: 24.0 ppg 10.8 rpg 2.4 apg 52%fg 80%FT 59%TS

Pau Gasol's Last 5 Seasons before joining Lakers

02-03: 19.0 ppg 8.8 rpg 2.8 apg 51%FG 74%FT 57%TS

03-04: 17.7 ppg 7.7 rpg 2.5 apg 48%FG 71%FT 54%TS

04-05: 17.8 ppg 7.3 rpg 2.4 apg 51%FG 77%FT 58%TS

05-06: 20.4 ppg 8.9 rpg 4.6 apg 50%FG 69%FT 56%TS

06-07: 20.8 ppg 9.8 rpg 3.4 apg 54%FG 75%FT 59%TS

Overall Cumulative Averages of 5 Seasons:

Chris Bosh (2005-2010) 353 Games

22.8 ppg 9.9 rpg 2.5 apg 50%FG 81%FT 58%TS

Pau Gasol (2002-2007) 355 Games

19.1 ppg 8.5 rpg 3.2 apg 51%FG 73%FT 57%TS


NBA Achievements:


Chris Bosh on Raptors:
5x NBA All-Star
All-NBA Second Team
NBA All-Rookie First Team
Playoff Record: 3 Wins 8 Losses

Pau Gasol on Grizzlies:
1x NBA All-Star
Rookie of the Year
NBA All-Rookie First Team
Playoff Record: 0 Wins 12 Losses

[keep-itreal]

Chris Bosh's Last 5 Seasons before joining Heat

05-06: 22.5 ppg 9.2 rpg 2.6 apg 51%fg 82%FT 59%TS

06-07: 22.6 ppg 10.7rpg 2.5 apg 50%fg 79%FT 58%TS

07-08: 22.3 ppg 8.7 rpg 2.6 apg 49%fg 84%FT 59%TS

08-09: 22.7 ppg 10.0 rpg 2.5 apg 49%fg 82%FT 57%TS

09-10: 24.0 ppg 10.8 rpg 2.4 apg 52%fg 80%FT 59%TS

Pau Gasol's Last 5 Seasons before joining Lakers

02-03: 19.0 ppg 8.8 rpg 2.8 apg 51%FG 74%FT 57%TS

03-04: 17.7 ppg 7.7 rpg 2.5 apg 48%FG 71%FT 54%TS

04-05: 17.8 ppg 7.3 rpg 2.4 apg 51%FG 77%FT 58%TS

05-06: 20.4 ppg 8.9 rpg 4.6 apg 50%FG 69%FT 56%TS

06-07: 20.8 ppg 9.8 rpg 3.4 apg 54%FG 75%FT 59%TS

Overall Cumulative Averages of 5 Seasons:

Chris Bosh (2005-2010) 353 Games

22.8 ppg 9.9 rpg 2.5 apg 50%FG 81%FT 58%TS

Pau Gasol (2002-2007) 355 Games

19.1 ppg 8.5 rpg 3.2 apg 51%FG 73%FT 57%TS


NBA Achievements:


Chris Bosh on Raptors:
5x NBA All-Star
All-NBA Second Team
NBA All-Rookie First Team
Playoff Record: 3 Wins 8 Losses

Pau Gasol on Grizzlies:
1x NBA All-Star
Rookie of the Year
NBA All-Rookie First Team
Playoff Record: 0 Wins 12 Losses

what are you a stats whore?

[Pat Reilly]

what is anthony's rebounding rate compared to stoudemire's? position doesn't matter.

?

Nobody has suggested Joel Anthony... or Carlos Arroyo for that matter... were quality NBA starters.

[Pat Reilly]

i don't get it, how did the big 3 get so much money? didn't they agree to take less? Amare got 100 mil. Bosh got 110? makes no sense:wtf:

Does it really make sense that his price is on par with DWade and LeBron? Bosh is clearly of lesser value than either.

[G-train]

Regardless of whether they were available, the Heat need somebody like Noah, Kaman, Miller or Robin Lopez. Or Howard. He'd do.

But in the real world they were not available, so we took on a top 5 power forward - who has played 3 games for us and is being canned.

[Pat Reilly]

Bosh does take a while to score but he is a slightly better scorer, much better rebounder and better defender than amare overall. However on this miami team I think Amare would be a better fit because of all the easy looks he could get from ducks and cuts to the basket.

However amare thinks hes better than he is...which could be an issue

Amar'e has had his past issues with injuries... and is older... also he did not like the fact Phoenix was not seen as "his team... the Heat would have been even less so.

For a multi-year contract with those kind of numbers Miami felt Bosh the better bet.

[Pat Reilly]

But in the real world they were not available, so we took on a top 5 power forward - who has played 3 games for us and is being canned.

People seem to forget not a lot of quality centers (or point guards) in this free agency class. Bosh was the best option at pf as LeBron was at sf and DWade was at sg. I forget who got all three. :oldlol: Those other needs will have to be dealt with later on in trades... or next season anyway.

[Laker Logic]

But in the real world they were not available, so we took on a top 5 power forward - who has played 3 games for us and is being canned.

I suppose if Heat fans are entitled to speculate whether they'll win 7 rings in a row, or only 6, I'm entitled to an opinion about what kind of player would fit best with their two best players.

[Geezer]

Amare is a ball stopper that would disrupt any sort of flow between the other stars, he doesn't have the personality to defer AT ALL, Bosh is a better fit for what the Heat are trying to do

[laronprofit9]

There are hardly any great big-men in the league right now.

The Center position is the worst it's been in years. You could average 15/10 at Center and be a top 10 center or even top 5.

PF who in the free agent class would you take other than Bosh or Amare? Bosh at the time also seemed to be a better fit with Wade than Amare, when the deal was made.

The heat got 3 of the top 4 free agents.

[IGOTGAME]

Amare is a ball stopper that would disrupt any sort of flow between the other stars, he doesn't have the personality to defer AT ALL, Bosh is a better fit for what the Heat are trying to do

Excuse me, but when has Amare been a ball stopper?

He makes very quick decisions with the ball. Amare may decide to shoot, but it will not be a slow decision like that of Chris Bosh these last few games.

[Vragrant]

Offensively Amare would have an edge as he plays a more physical inside player than Bosh. It would help the Heat get easier shots inside.

However Bosh is a better defender, rebounder and passer. He's probably a better fit for the Heat all things considered.

Plus all 3 of these guys like eachother and are friends off the court. That had to be a factor.

[G-train]

I suppose if Heat fans are entitled to speculate whether they'll win 7 rings in a row, or only 6, I'm entitled to an opinion about what kind of player would fit best with their two best players.

No one said you weren't entitled to an opinion, but yours is totally hypothetical as the players you deemed best fit were not available, so we had to take Bosh. We aren't gonna say no to an allstar 4 because he doesnt fit perfectly.

[Geezer]

Excuse me, but when has Amare been a ball stopper?

He makes very quick decisions with the ball. Amare may decide to shoot, but it will not be a slow decision like that of Chris Bosh these last few games.

Yeah, he will decide to shoot very quickly about 90% of the time :roll:

[Harion]

Miami doesn't need another scoring option
Lebron and Wade are enough to beat any team any day
what they need is defense/rebound
and Amara doesn't play both (well)

Miami tactic is to let Lebron and Wade drop shot after shot
and then just play terrific D
Bosh is a better fit for Miami
he's not the best defender and rebounder in the league
but he can still improve
i think if Miami trainers make Bosh gain weight and add muscle to his physique, he will improve more on his defending
he also need someone to toughen up his mentality
a coach that will teach him to be a bruiser
Dwight is trying to learn finesse, so i think Bosh should learn the opposite

[BEAST Griffin]

Bosh is overrated.

He is soft and has little defensive ability and has inflated stats because he was on the Raptors.