Cousins vs Favors revisited

[MMKM]

I did a thread on this last year, and the consensus pick was Cousins over Favors, probably 5 to 1. I KNOW IT'S EARLY BUT...anyone want to change their mind yet?

At this point:

Favors 10 and 10 in 20 min per game
Cousins 14 and 6 in 26 min per game

If you could take one or the other, who would u take now that we have seen them in action?

[lilWesleyJ4]

Favors because he plays defense

[Big One]

i would take cousins, i think he has more upside

[broy]

although i believe Favors is the better one, i think they both will turn into great players.

[boozehound]

although i believe Favors is the better one, i think they both will turn into great players.
I agree that both with mature into solid nba ballers. I still take cousins 10 out of 10. so polished offensively already and really has the size and, from what Ive seen, bball IQ to be something special in the league.

[niko]

I'd take Cousins assuming the rumblings out of Sac that he's an ass are unfounded. Favors doesn't try hard all the time which strikes me as strange so early in his career. His motor has a slow speed mixed in with the others.

[The Poet]

I'd take Cousins assuming the rumblings out of Sac that he's an ass are unfounded. Favors doesn't try hard all the time which strikes me as strange so early in his career. His motor has a slow speed mixed in with the others.

I sincerely doubt you can average 10 rebounds, 5 offensive in 20 mpg without "trying hard all the time." If anyone's had the lazy tag on him throughout their high school and collegiate career, it has been Cousins. He strikes me as a guy who needs to constantly find motivation to play hard, like he does against the Nets for passing on him or when he started giving out his phone number to Mississippi State fans when he played against them.

I like Cousins more as well, but there have been several reports that have been consistent since this debate began:
1. Cousins is more developed at this point
2. Favors is more athletic
3. Favors has been praised to be a work-a-holic/gym rat, Cousins has been noted to be lazy and a hard head

[MMKM]

I sincerely doubt you can average 10 rebounds, 5 offensive in 20 mpg without "trying hard all the time." If anyone's had the lazy tag on him throughout their high school and collegiate career, it has been Cousins. He strikes me as a guy who needs to constantly find motivation to play hard, like he does against the Nets for passing on him or when he started giving out his phone number to Mississippi State fans when he played against them.

I like Cousins more as well, but there have been several reports that have been consistent since this debate began:
1. Cousins is more developed at this point
2. Favors is more athletic
3. Favors has been praised to be a work-a-holic/gym rat, Cousins has been noted to be lazy and a hard head

THAT^^^

[2LeTTeRS]

I agree that both with mature into solid nba ballers. I still take cousins 10 out of 10. so polished offensively already and really has the size and, from what Ive seen, bball IQ to be something special in the league.

Completely agree. Although I think New Jersey made the right decision considering that they have Brook Lopez in the middle already.

[Ron Artest]

Completely agree. Although I think New Jersey made the right decision considering that they have Brook Lopez in the middle already.

It's Philly that made the big mistake. Evan Turner should have been at #4 to Minnesota.

1. WAS - Wall
2. PHI - Cousins
3. NJN - Favors
4. MIN - Turner (bust-ass player for a bust-ass franchise)
5. SAC - Johnson or someone else.

[D12"Magic"]

They still have more time to progress. When favors gets use to the NBA he will play pretty good.
Ill say Favors.

[tpols]

I'd take Cousins assuming the rumblings out of Sac that he's an ass are unfounded. Favors doesn't try hard all the time which strikes me as strange so early in his career. His motor has a slow speed mixed in with the others.
This makes no sense. One of cousins main detractors was that he has attitude problems which often translate to work ethic issues and lead to 'not trying hard.'

[33teeth]

I think fans of both teams (and players) have reason to be optimistic about these guys. I still think that the original outlook remains: Cousins is higher risk with, potentially, higher upside.

I think it's insane to be "revisiting" an issue when we're only 5% of the way through their rookie season though.

[WhySoInsecure?]

This makes no sense. One of cousins main detractors was that he has attitude problems which often translate to work ethic issues and lead to 'not trying hard.'
What he meant to say was, Favors lacks "street hunger"

[tpols]

Favors has shown to be the more athletic big man with much better defensive awareness and instincts (against bosh, he would get right on him in the post and either way bosh went he would slide in front with his chest out, absorb the contact, and keep his hands straight up with his body pressed to bosh; very impressed with his lateral footwork and IQ as to not commit stupid fouls). He also, despite being smaller, is a more capable rebounder and has a nose for where the ball is going.

Favors is a physical beast and whats going to be awesome is watching him in about 20 games when he is getting into top cardio shape. He will be wreaking havoc on the boards alongside one of the best centers in the game right now.

[FindingTim]

It's Philly that made the big mistake. Evan Turner should have been at #4 to Minnesota.

1. WAS - Wall
2. PHI - Cousins
3. NJN - Favors
4. MIN - Turner (bust-ass player for a bust-ass franchise)
5. SAC - Johnson or someone else.

oh man you are so wrong about Turner. He's going to be a very good player. He's got that Steph Curry/Brandon Roy rhythm, which never seems to fail as long as the talent is there.

[MTing]

Cousins will probably have better stats throughout his career because his offense is already there. Favors still needs to work on his post game a lot, as well as eventually develop a little jumper. Favors goes PERFECTLY with Brook though because Brook's weaknesses (rebounding and defense) is Derrick's strong points.

[Droid101]

oh man you are so wrong about Turner. He's going to be a very good player. He's got that Steph Curry/Brandon Roy rhythm, which never seems to fail as long as the talent is there.
Nostradamus!

[JMT]

oh man you are so wrong about Turner. He's going to be a very good player. He's got that Steph Curry/Brandon Roy rhythm, which never seems to fail as long as the talent is there.

Good call.

:roll: :roll: at anyone that had Favors over Cousins.

[Xiao Yao You]

Cousins has already had problems with his coach while Favors talks about playing D. Until Favors gets a chance to play big minutes on a regular basis it's too early to call. Monroe is the best of the 3 right now.

[UtahJazzFan88]

Good call.

:roll: :roll: at anyone that had Favors over Cousins.

Favors hasn't been getting minutes at all. I would say Cousins is better than him at this point, but Favors is going to break out pretty soon if Ty Corbin ever gives him some minutes. Right now? Yeah Cousins is better, in the future? Still hard to say. I think Favors and Cousins are two completely different players anyway. Favors seems like more of a Tyson Chandler type player with a little bit of offense.

[JMT]

Cousins has already had problems with his coach while Favors talks about playing D.

8/5 in 20 minutes on a team with a losing record.

He was an athlete without a lot of basketball skill or experience coming out of GT and it showed from the start. You can't learn to play the game at the NBA level. He's Samuel Dalembert redux, though it does appear he gives more consistent effort.

He's not half the player Cousins, who will be an All Star for a decade, is.

[UtahJazzFan88]

8/5 in 20 minutes on a team with a losing record.

He was an athlete without a lot of basketball skill or experience coming out of GT and it showed from the start. You can't learn to play the game at the NBA level.

He's not half the player Cousins, who will be an All Star for a decade, is.

Thats not Favors fault unless there's stuff going on practice that I don't know of, he's outplaying Al Jefferson and Paul Millsap on defense by a mile and his offense has been improving a bunch in games lately. That's on Ty Corbin because he's coming off the bench and deserving of more minutes.

I do get your point actually and see what your saying. I just find Favors and Cousins completely different type of players in this league. Favors needs minutes so everyone can find out instead of this team being mediocre.

[magnax1]

As a Jazz fan, I'd take Cousins pretty easily. Favors looks nice on the defensive end, but really mechanical on offense, and has begun to shoot jumpers that he's plainly awful at.

[JMT]

As a Jazz fan, I'd take Cousins pretty easily. Favors looks nice on the defensive end, but really mechanical on offense, and has begun to shoot jumpers that he's plainly awful at.

My point about him exactly.

He has no offensive skill set. None. Had none coming out of college. Just a big, raw body.

He can get minutes all night long, and that's always what he's going to be. The things he needs to develop are things you learn in high school and college, not at the NBA level. For a defensive minded guy, he's not even a very instinctive rebounder.

Cousins is extremely skilled. Very well rounded. Not quite the athlete, but certainly good enough. Not without his flaws; the Westphal thing was ugly, but Smart raves about his work ethic and attitude. His team can get better around him and be really strong inside for a long time. Favors will never help except on one end of the floor.

[magnax1]

My point about him exactly.

He has no offensive skill set. None. Had none coming out of college. Just a big, raw body.

He can get minutes all night long, and that's always what he's going to be. The things he needs to develop are things you learn in high school and college, not at the NBA level.

Cousins is extremely skilled. Very well rounded. Not quite the athlete, but certainly good enough. Not without his flaws; the Westphal thing was ugly, but Smart raves about his work ethic and attitude. His team can get better around him and be really strong inside for a long time. Favors will never help except on one end of the floor.
None is an exaggeration. He's obviously learned quite a bit from Jefferson this year, but he's just not on the level of Cousins right now. I didn't think he'd amount to anything on offense coming out of College, but he doesn't look outright bad as of now, and he's averaging 15 points per 36, which is pretty impressive for a big in his second season

[Xiao Yao You]

He's Samuel Dalembert redux, though it does appear he gives more consistent effort.

He's been inconsistent but he shows more offensive potential than Dalembert.


He's not half the player Cousins, who will be an All Star for a decade, is.

Cousins is more advanced offensively but if he lives up to the Rasheed comparisons I'd take Favors or Monroe.


he's not even a very instinctive rebounder.

But he's a good rebounder. I prefer Kanter over Favors anyway though he's struggled a bit recently.

[dunksby]

Cousins got moves and he has improved enormously this season Cousins and Monroe are the future elite centers. Cousins needs to sort out all controversy though, a week ago he was accused of sending indecent pictures of himself to a female staff :lol

[MeLO MvP 15]

I thought it was well known that Cousins was more talented, it was just a question of maturity and attitude. I mean most said that if it wasn't for his attitude he'd probably contend for the #1 or #2 pick.

And his character hasn't exactly been top notch in Sacramento.

Let's not ignore that Cousins is one of the main guys on the Kings where as Favors isn't on Utah. Then again, that's due to skill too.

Personally, I didn't think it was hard during the draft to see the better player: Cousins. It just depends on if you think his attitude is so bad that it would ruin a team's success.

[Xiao Yao You]

Let's not ignore that Cousins is one of the main guys on the Kings where as Favors isn't on Utah. Then again, that's due to skill too.


Not sure Cousins would be playing over Millsap or Jefferson either? Supposedly the Jazz were one of the teams that tried to get him when the Westphal suspended him surprisingly enough so they think he's better than Favors and/or Kanter too I guess.

[Xiao Yao You]

Jefferson out today so Favors will get the start against Monroe.

[UtahJazzFan88]

Bump.

Favors with 23 points and 17 rebounds tonight. Not to mention they put him on David Lee in the 2nd half instead of Millsap and Lee couldn't hit shit. This is what happens when he's given starter minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVMhTyvpeGM

Remains to be seen what he can do against Gasol and Bynum then Lee/Biedrins, but I expect a decent game (obviously not like tonight) tomorrow night against the Lakers.

[caesarspoke]

Favors == Young Dwight

[UtahJazzFan88]

Favors == Young Dwight

lol let's not get too carried away here.

[Xiao Yao You]

Favors == Young Dwight

Dwight averaged 10 boards a game right out of high school. Offensively Favors looks like he could have a better game.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Ill take the one who is not a bitchy head case.

[alenleomessi]

favors starting against lakers?

[Xiao Yao You]

yes

[roffie]

imagine if he stayed with the nets.. he'll probably play 40 mins a game. fk shelden williams

[Xiao Yao You]

But he'd still be stuck playing with Harris. Shelden>>>>>>>>>Devin

[bagelred]

The 2010 draft was my favorite because they had some good draftees with actual words as names:

Wall, Turner, Favors, Cousins, Fields

[blablabla]

I'd pick Cousins because he's a center and Favors is a PF.
There are lots of good pfs already in the nba and the new draft is also full with talent at the 4 but a good offensive center who's 7ft tall is rare

[caesarspoke]

Favors will be an allstar before Cousins.

[Whoah10115]

They have to trade Millsap in the offseason and this guy has to become the starter...gonna be interesting to see who gets Millsap.


Kanter is a center, correct?

[GOBB]

Correct. Kanter/Favors nice young bigs.

[LockoutOver11]

Monroe Son../

[caesarspoke]

I would rank them in this order: Favors > Monroe > Cousins

Cousins have the most potential but he won't realize it, he will be like Derrick Coleman

[broy]

Favors is my favorite player out of 2011 draft class, although Wall is definitely the best out of there. Top three bigs, I mean Favors, Cousins and Monroe are great players actually. It's all about what type of player you looking for. They all work in the proper systems.

[Whoah10115]

Cousins already works harder than Derrick Coleman ever did lol. Barkley is always talking about if someone gets in his ear and Ernie asked him on air why he wouldn't choose to be the one to do it. Fellow Alabama boy. He and Webber will get in the ear of Cousins.

[Whoah10115]

Correct. Kanter/Favors nice young bigs.



I'd much rather have Jefferson, tho I don't know if he's really a center.


But they gotta make trades. Favors is much more talented than Kanter. I'd have to trade Millsap and one of Jefferson/Kanter. Maybe together for something...or separate trades, whatever. They definitely have to move Millsap. Maybe Kanter stays on the bench next year and Jefferson plays out his contract. But again, something has to happen.

[UtahJazzFan88]

I'd pick Cousins because he's a center and Favors is a PF.
There are lots of good pfs already in the nba and the new draft is also full with talent at the 4 but a good offensive center who's 7ft tall is rare

Favors can and has played center very well. Versatile at both positions. I think what's more impressive about last night is he made some outside jump shots and went 9/9 from the free throw line.

No question in my mind that Jefferson or Millsap will be gone in the offseason. Millsap is more tradeable than Jefferson but I think Millsap would be better along side Favors than Jefferson.

Another video of Favors game tying dunk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln3fBnFrjGw

[RRR3]

Cousins getting a bad rep again. :rolleyes: Read on article on him that really changed my perception of him, http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2012-02-17/demarcus-cousins-peeling-back-the-layers-kings-big-man-is-laid-back-and-loveable.

I don't think Demarcus is a thug, he's just not great at keeping his emotions in check and speaks what he's thinking w/o thinking of the consequences. He's also having a damn good year. 17 PPG, 11 RPG (over 4 offensive rebounds per game!), and over a steal and a block a game to boot. Plus, he only plays just under 30 minutes a game.

[KB2009Champ]

It's Philly that made the big mistake. Evan Turner should have been at #4 to Minnesota.

1. WAS - Wall
2. PHI - Cousins
3. NJN - Favors
4. MIN - Turner (bust-ass player for a bust-ass franchise)
5. SAC - Johnson or someone else.

Huh?
Where is Monroe? Knowing what we know now I'd probably take him #1 over all those guys

[Whoah10115]

Favors can and has played center very well. Versatile at both positions. I think what's more impressive about last night is he made some outside jump shots and went 9/9 from the free throw line.

No question in my mind that Jefferson or Millsap will be gone in the offseason. Millsap is more tradeable than Jefferson but I think Millsap would be better along side Favors than Jefferson.

Another video of Favors game tying dunk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln3fBnFrjGw



Yea but Favors is certainly better at PF, isn't he? If he plays at PF then you need to trade Millsap.

[LockoutOver11]

from the 2010 draft class, only two haven't really shown up in the top 10... wesley johnson and that bum from the clippers/hornets.

I give wesley one more year cause he's from syracuse. Would be crazy if 6 of the top 10 make all star teams in the future.

[UtahJazzFan88]

Yea but Favors is certainly better at PF, isn't he? If he plays at PF then you need to trade Millsap.

Can easily play C and did so last night. Doesn't matter.

[Whoah10115]

Can easily play C and did so last night. Doesn't matter.


Still it has to be Millsap. He can play the 3 bu that's not useful. He can't play center the way Jefferson can. And like you said, his contract is much more attractive.


Tho I wonder if you guys would be willing to trade both. I imagine you can get back a lot.

[hawksdogsbraves]

Yeah they need to get Millsap and Jefferson out of there and give Favors some more PT. He's starting to show the signs that he will live up to all that potential. If Kanter develops into a a good C then the Jazz are going to have the best frontcourt in the league for a while.

Cousins is a beast too, I like Monroe but I'd pretty easily take Cousins and Favors over him. They have much more upside.

[PHaYze]

I got Favors.

He's just a different kind of dude. He's smart, he's athletic, he's got a great body, awesome build, and he's huge, trust me on that one. He has great, soft hands, he's quick, he's deceptively fast, and he is good as filling my hole up.

[DMV2]

Still it has to be Millsap. He can play the 3 bu that's not useful. He can't play center the way Jefferson can. And like you said, his contract is much more attractive.


Tho I wonder if you guys would be willing to trade both. I imagine you can get back a lot.
I'd like one of them to stay until both Favors and Kanter can be a reliable C/PF combo. Hopefully, both get to start next season. Millsap would be better to keep since his game is a lot more versatile than Jefferson; meaning that Millsap can play uptempo and run. Jefferson's offensive skills are too good to be a bench player.

[magnax1]

Still it has to be Millsap. He can play the 3 bu that's not useful. He can't play center the way Jefferson can. And like you said, his contract is much more attractive.


Tho I wonder if you guys would be willing to trade both. I imagine you can get back a lot.
I think it's unlikely they trade Millsap over Jefferson just because Millsap is the better player and probably has more good years ahead of him. Especially since I don't think they'd get very good value back for Millsap since he's a bit under rated because his stats aren't that spectacular.

[Whoah10115]

I think it's unlikely they trade Millsap over Jefferson just because Millsap is the better player and probably has more good years ahead of him. Especially since I don't think they'd get very good value back for Millsap since he's a bit under rated because his stats aren't that spectacular.


I don't think Millsap is better than Jefferson. But Millsap is a good player at a real value contract, whereas Jefferson is sometimes maligned.


But Jefferson can play center, and Millsap can't. He gives options.

[Whoah10115]

I'd like one of them to stay until both Favors and Kanter can be a reliable C/PF combo. Hopefully, both get to start next season. Millsap would be better to keep since his game is a lot more versatile than Jefferson; meaning that Millsap can play uptempo and run. Jefferson's offensive skills are too good to be a bench player.



I think if you put Millsap on the bench you're gonna have a problem. This guy has never gotten a full shake. Now that he is, his minutes are limited but he's still puttiing up numbers and playing defense. He's been great this year.

[UtahJazzFan88]

I think if you put Millsap on the bench you're gonna have a problem. This guy has never gotten a full shake. Now that he is, his minutes are limited but he's still puttiing up numbers and playing defense. He's been great this year.

Millsap's averaged 32 and 34 minutes per game in the last two season, I'm not sure how that's limited. Millsap has solid defense considering his size but his actual defense in general is average when not looking at all the steals he gets.

[Whoah10115]

Millsap's averaged 32 and 34 minutes per game in the last two season, I'm not sure how that's limited. Millsap has solid defense considering his size but his actual defense in general is average when not looking at all the steals he gets.



Was he consistently starting last year? I think some players just need to start. Or at least have a role chosen and for it to remain consistent.

[UtahJazzFan88]

Was he consistently starting last year? I think some players just need to start. Or at least have a role chosen and for it to remain consistent.


Yes.. started in 76/76 games.

[Whoah10115]

Yes.. started in 76/76 games.


My bad, you're right.



But he played well. And the main thing is that now that he's consistently starting he's playing well. Moving him back to the bench is gonna go bad for him.

[Xiao Yao You]

I'd pick Cousins because he's a center and Favors is a PF.
There are lots of good pfs already in the nba and the new draft is also full with talent at the 4 but a good offensive center who's 7ft tall is rare

I could certainly see Cousins playing the 4. Favors plays both. In the Jazz offense it doesn't matter. Favors is longer I'm guessing? He's strong enough to play the 5. I could see him at both in the future.


They have to trade Millsap in the offseason and this guy has to become the starter.

Why? Until Favors or Kanter show that they are better or Millsap gets overpaid next year why trade your best player and one of the best contracts in the league? Just based on potential that might not pan out? I'd be looking into an extention for him before he becomes a free agent personally. He's the kind of guy every team wants around.


Kanter is a center, correct?

He considered himself a PF before the season I believe. He was more of a perimeter player before this season and has been going out there more lately. I'd all him more of a center though.


I mean Favors, Cousins and Monroe are great players actually. It's all about what type of player you looking for. They all work in the proper systems.

Monroe would definitely look good in the Jazz offense! Jazz wanted him I'm sure.


Cousins already works harder than Derrick Coleman ever did

Wait til his next contract and he gets his 10-15 mill a year.



But they gotta make trades. Favors is much more talented than Kanter. I'd have to trade Millsap and one of Jefferson/Kanter. Maybe together for something...or separate trades, whatever. They definitely have to move Millsap. Maybe Kanter stays on the bench next year and Jefferson plays out his contract. But again, something has to happen.

Something will happen. Jefferson and Millsap become free agents after next season. Why rush it? Kanter has shown a lot more progress than Favors. I think he could be the better player. Better rebounder. Strong, unmovable defender. Showing some outside touch recently. They look like they could be
good together which is most important.


Millsap would be better along side Favors than Jefferson.

Millsap is just the better guy to have on your team. Next to Kanter. At the 3. Coming off the bench eventually.


Still it has to be Millsap. He can play the 3 bu that's not useful. He can't play center the way Jefferson can. And like you said, his contract is much more attractive.

Tho I wonder if you guys would be willing to trade both. I imagine you can get back a lot.

Why is Millsap at the 3 not useful? It would be great to have him there at times. I'm guessing with a full camp next year maybe they will? There's no doubt he can be effective there with certain match-ups. Both might be gone. FA's!


If Kanter develops into a a good C then the Jazz are going to have the best frontcourt in the league for a while.

They have one of the best frontcoursts now! Why do you trade that just because you have potential?


I think if you put Millsap on the bench you're gonna have a problem. This guy has never gotten a full shake. Now that he is, his minutes are limited but he's still puttiing up numbers and playing defense. He's been great this year.

He's been great for a long time now! He would be no problem on the bench when that time comes as long as they use him at the 3 as well. That time hasn't come yet.

[UtahJazzFan88]

Update, Favors still playing really good basketball right now.

12 points and 10 rebounds against the Lakers on the road, basically nothing special, just a solid performance.

7 points, 9 rebounds, 3 blocks in 21 minutes tonight. What's more impressive is the fact he only went 1-2 (didn't get many looks) and got to the free throw line. He played pretty outstanding defense tonight, guards the pick and roll great.

[Xiao Yao You]

Update, Favors still playing really good basketball right now.

12 points and 10 rebounds against the Lakers on the road, basically nothing special, just a solid performance.

7 points, 9 rebounds, 3 blocks in 21 minutes tonight. What's more impressive is the fact he only went 1-2 (didn't get many looks) and got to the free throw line. He played pretty outstanding defense tonight, guards the pick and roll great.

Can run the pick and roll too now that Harris has finally figured out how.

[hawksdogsbraves]

I like how Favors gets to the line, and shoots fairly well from it. I really like him as a player going forward. It stinks that he's in such a logjam in their frontcourt that he doesn't get a lot of minutes, but I'm sure it will help him in the long run. He's going to be a good one.

[Xiao Yao You]

Getting playoff experience and watching and learning and playing with Millsap and Jefferson will benefit him.

[Whoah10115]

Hearing Millsap talk after the Lakers game, I've changed my mind.


Keep him and play Favors at the 5. Favors is a legit 6'10 and a strong guy. Let's see how he looks as a 5 and go from there.



There is no way Al Jefferson is 6'10. He's probably 6'8 and he has no idea how to man the paint on defense. He goes in but literally doesn't touch anybody. He's more like Zach Randolph.



If Favors shows that he can play C as well as he can play PF (And I mean as well), then I would make him my center and have Millsap at the 4. It makes your team quick, able to break, and you have defense. Height is overrated (tho Al Jefferson being 6'8 doesn't help).



I'd like that going forward much more than I'd like Kanter and Favors. Either way, play it like that next season.

[mrpibb]

Kanter's going to be amazing. Holy hell, he is underrated on this board and in this thread.

[GOBB]

Kanter's going to be amazing. Holy hell, he is underrated on this board and in this thread.

What has he done exactly? :confusedshrug:

Thats like me saying Nikola Vucevic is underrated on this board.

[boozehound]

My 2 cents. Favors, Cousins and Monroe all look to be among the better young bigs in the league. I think each will be very solid, with cousins having the most potential (and probably least chance to reach it). My assessment of Favors is somewhat limited due to his role as a bench player to date, but he looks very good in the games I have seen. What a great lottery for big men.

[mrpibb]

What has he done exactly? :confusedshrug:

Thats like me saying Nikola Vucevic is underrated on this board.

:biggums:

4.8 rebounds on 14mpg

He has a post game. He likes to play in the post and use his post game. He plays great defense. He already has a money ~10ft jumper (meaning it'll grow to like 15-20 feet).

Now, if there's anything to criticize, it's his 46% FG. But then again, from my point of view, that's because something like 50% of his shots are blocked. He just hasn't acclimated to the NBA's speed and size yet. But it's nothing I worry about. He brings the ball down when he catches it, and guards slap at the ball. He pump fakes when he should just go up strong.

And then, the possession after getting his shit blocked, he'll posterize the same guy. I look at that and think, he's 19. He's ****ing 19.





Let me repeat that: He's 19 and this is his first year in the NBA. He's not going to stay the way he is, and I don't see any glaring problems that will hinder his growth as a player.

[GOBB]

:biggums:

4.8 rebounds on 14mpg

He has a post game. He likes to play in the post and use his post game. He plays great defense. He already has a money ~10ft jumper (meaning it'll grow to like 15-20 feet).

Now, if there's anything to criticize, it's his 46% FG. But then again, from my point of view, that's because something like 50% of his shots are blocked. He just hasn't acclimated to the NBA's speed and size yet. But it's nothing I worry about. He brings the ball down when he catches it, and guards slap at the ball. He pump fakes when he should just go up strong.

And then, the possession after getting his shit blocked, he'll posterize the same guy. I look at that and think, he's 19. He's ****ing 19.

Let me repeat that: He's 19 and this is his first year in the NBA. He's not going to stay the way he is, and I don't see any glaring problems that will hinder his growth as a player.

He's not underrated. He just hasnt proven himself nor grew as a player (for obvious reasons being he is a young rookie). I'm not hear to criticize his game, deny any talents you may feel he has. Just saying he hasnt been in position to showcase much of anything to be considered underrated. If you want to say in 3-4yrs Kanter will establish himself as whatever you want to call him? Cool. But underrated? Come on. Even Favors has shown more than Kanter so far. Thats not a diss, a knock. It just is what it is.

Hopefully he develops into a solid big man. He's playing behind some good bigs.

[mrpibb]

He will develop into a solid big man. That's what I'm saying is underrated. The kid will be a force. He'll be better than solid. I'm not saying his impact is underrated right now, but people dismiss him. He will **** up your centers in three years.

Then I read other posts saying Kanter shouldn't be our starting center in the future. And that's when I freak out. This kid will be damn good.

[GOBB]

He will develop into a solid big man. That's what I'm saying is underrated. The kid will be a force. He'll be better than solid. I'm not saying his impact is underrated right now, but people dismiss him. He will **** up your centers in three years.

Then I read other posts saying Kanter shouldn't be our starting center in the future. And that's when I freak out. This kid will be damn good.

With prospects they can go either way. I dont think you can say he will, anymore than people saying he wont. Wait and see, but I like his potential moreso than not. So I hope Kanter/Favors future duo works out.

[Whoah10115]

He will develop into a solid big man. That's what I'm saying is underrated. The kid will be a force. He'll be better than solid. I'm not saying his impact is underrated right now, but people dismiss him. He will **** up your centers in three years.

Then I read other posts saying Kanter shouldn't be our starting center in the future. And that's when I freak out. This kid will be damn good.



Well I said I'd go with Favors at C and Millsap at PF next year and go from there. If Favors can play center just as well, then I give it to Millsap for at least next season...unless they want to trade him now, which won't make much sense if they can't get back something big.

[Xiao Yao You]

Hearing Millsap talk after the Lakers game, I've changed my mind.


Keep him and play Favors at the 5. Favors is a legit 6'10 and a strong guy. Let's see how he looks as a 5 and go from there.

It's pretty much the same position in Utah's offense. All that really matters is at the defensive end and how the two bigs compliment each other. Favors is long and strong and athletic. 4 and 5.


There is no way Al Jefferson is 6'10. He's probably 6'8 and he has no idea how to man the paint on defense. He goes in but literally doesn't touch anybody. He's more like Zach Randolph.

Except for the blocks!


If Favors shows that he can play C as well as he can play PF (And I mean as well), then I would make him my center and have Millsap at the 4. It makes your team quick, able to break, and you have defense. Height is overrated (tho Al Jefferson being 6'8 doesn't help).

Favors has to beat out Kanter and they both have to beat out Paul which I don't see either as a given like most people seem to with all of the start Favors bench/trade Paul talk. Height is meaningless if it doesn't involve length.


Kanter's going to be amazing. Holy hell, he is underrated on this board and in this thread.

Agreed


He's 19 and this is his first year in the NBA. He's not going to stay the way he is, and I don't see any glaring problems that will hinder his growth as a player.

The youngest 19 in the league. He shows improvement pretty much every time out. That's the exciting part. Who knows how good he can be?


He's not underrated. He just hasnt proven himself nor grew as a player (for obvious reasons being he is a young rookie). I'm not hear to criticize his game, deny any talents you may feel he has. Just saying he hasnt been in position to showcase much of anything to be considered underrated. If you want to say in 3-4yrs Kanter will establish himself as whatever you want to call him? Cool. But underrated? Come on. Even Favors has shown more than Kanter so far. Thats not a diss, a knock. It just is what it is.

Compared to Favors he is underrated and it's debatable as to rather Favors has shown more. Kanter is the better rebounder. He's comparable defensively and offensively. He's shown a lot more growth though obviously after not playing last year he had more room for it.

[hawksdogsbraves]

How can Kanter not be underrated here? No one but Jazz fans have ever seen him play!

[Xiao Yao You]

Pretty sure Lakers fans know who he is.

[veilside23]

id take favors. would love to see him with rondo... ;)

[Xiao Yao You]

Me too! Jefferson for Rondo probably works.

[nycelt84]

Me too! Jefferson for Rondo probably works.

Works for what? A fantasy videogame or a trade that only a GM who is a moron would ever do?

[magnax1]

Jefferson might be 6-8, but he's got the length of a 7 footer so it doesn't really matter.

[Whoah10115]

It's pretty much the same position in Utah's offense. All that really matters is at the defensive end and how the two bigs compliment each other. Favors is long and strong and athletic. 4 and 5.



Except for the blocks!



Favors has to beat out Kanter and they both have to beat out Paul which I don't see either as a given like most people seem to with all of the start Favors bench/trade Paul talk. Height is meaningless if it doesn't involve length.




True on the blocks. He's long, but he's not athletic, and he's not a very good defender. At least not at center. He's also not that strong. He's Big Al, but he needs to strengthen. Not add muscle or lean. Just strengthen. For a big guy, he's really light.



But the 4 and the 5 are not the same. Otherwise, Millsap wouldn't be your 4. It's only the same for Jefferson or Favors. When Millsap is out there, it's something else. And the defense is obviously the main issue.



Another thing you could do is look to trade Favors. He has enough upside to net you a real good PG, if there are any to net.

[CelticBaller]

Me too! Jefferson for Rondo probably works.
:lol

[Xiao Yao You]

True on the blocks. He's long, but he's not athletic, and he's not a very good defender. At least not at center. He's also not that strong. He's Big Al, but he needs to strengthen. Not add muscle or lean. Just strengthen. For a big guy, he's really light.

D is his calling card right now. He actually wants to play and excel at it! He looks pretty athletic to me for a 6'11 guy. Also looks pretty big and strong for a 20 year old. Definately has the frame to carry more muscle. He's not Noah who does pretty well at center with his frame.


But the 4 and the 5 are not the same. Otherwise, Millsap wouldn't be your 4. It's only the same for Jefferson or Favors. When Millsap is out there, it's something else. And the defense is obviously the main issue.

Offensively it is the same. Jefferson and Millsap both post up and they both face up. They are interchangable. The kids not as much yet just because they don't have the game for it yet.


Another thing you could do is look to trade Favors. He has enough upside to net you a real good PG, if there are any to net.

Right now Harris is the first guy to trade if possible. Next is Jefferson. Both have contracts that expire at the end of next season so they become more valuable by the day.

[Whoah10115]

D is his calling card right now. He actually wants to play and excel at it! He looks pretty athletic to me for a 6'11 guy. Also looks pretty big and strong for a 20 year old. Definately has the frame to carry more muscle. He's not Noah who does pretty well at center with his frame.




Wait, who are we talking about? I'm talking about Jefferson.

[Xiao Yao You]

Sorry I thought you were talking about Favors. He's not light. He's listed at 289. I know he's went up and down with that but never light.

[Xiao Yao You]

Favors just outplayed Cousins at the end of the first.

[Xiao Yao You]

Favors is putting on a show. Carroll looking good too. Tinsley is so much fun to watch!

[Whoah10115]

Sorry I thought you were talking about Favors. He's not light. He's listed at 289. I know he's went up and down with that but never light.



Jefferson has definitely lost weight. But by light I mean his body is not very strong, for what it is.



Favors is playing center tonight?

[Xiao Yao You]

He plays center whenever he's in with Millsap maybe with Jefferson too? Probably depends on the match-ups at the defensive end. Same with Kanter.

[DMV2]

Kings vs Jazz right now, 2nd half.

Jazz are +18 with Favors on the floor.

Favors stats so far 10 on 5/8 FGA, 6 boards, 1 steals and 4 blocks in about 13 mins.

Cousins 16 on 7/21 FGA, 10 boards, 2 ast, 2 TOs, 1 steal in 20+ mins

4 mins left in the 3rd

[DMV2]

Found some nice advanced statistic on Favors.

http://gyazo.com/3f092719140bf862e9f623babef9e673.png

Favors could easily be an 18-20 PPG and 10+RPG guy if he was a full-time starter who gets 15-17 FGA a game.

Hopefully, next season he'll get that chance when they trade Jefferson.

[Xiao Yao You]

Found some nice advanced statistic on Favors.

http://gyazo.com/3f092719140bf862e9f623babef9e673.png

Favors could easily be an 18-20 PPG and 10+RPG guy if he was a full-time starter who gets 15-17 FGA a game.

Hopefully, next season he'll get that chance when they trade Jefferson.

Looks like a possible double double guy anyway. Hopefully he'll get the chance next year.

[UtahJazzFan88]

Revisiting this again.

Favors with 13 points, 11 rebounds, 5 blocks in 29 minutes in the Jazz's biggest game of the year against the Suns. Along with 16 points, 11 rebounds against the Magic the game before.

I'm not even sure the points and rebounds are the story about him, Favors basically shut down Gortat with 5 blocks in the 1st half. Stuff like this doesn't really show up in the box score and it's something Monroe or Cousins haven't done.

Once Favors finally figures out how to finish at the rim and has the touch at the rim, his offensive game will blow up as well.

[magnax1]

Revisiting this again.

Favors with 13 points, 11 rebounds, 5 blocks in 29 minutes in the Jazz's biggest game of the year against the Suns. Along with 16 points, 11 rebounds against the Magic the game before.

I'm not even sure the points and rebounds are the story about him, Favors basically shut down Gortat with 5 blocks in the 1st half. Stuff like this doesn't really show up in the box score and it's something Monroe or Cousins haven't done.

Once Favors finally figures out how to finish at the rim and has the touch at the rim, his offensive game will blow up as well.
He's already a top 5 post defender in the game, maybe even higher, which is quite amazing considering it's only his second season.

[Whoah10115]

Watching yesterday, one thing is definitive: Favors needs to be able to play center. Because he is too good not to keep and too good not to be put into the starting lineup next year.


C and PG are the positions Utah has to fill. Nash, Dragic, Deron (hahaha) are the PG's who are unrestricted and they're all great. Lowry exists as a trade possibility. You never know with Danny Dumbass in Boston.



At center, we all know Bogut has already been traded and the only guy really worth pushing at is the best guy in the league. And there's no reason to think he's coming to Utah.



Almost too many options. I know how Xiao Yao You (and some other fans) feels about Enes Kanter, but that was a horrible draft pick. I know you're not a fan of Al Jefferson but he's great and better than Kanter ever will be. All I know is that you have too many pieces to not try and trade for a big player. Tho I don't even know who you might want to trade for.

[UtahJazzFan88]

Watching yesterday, one thing is definitive: Favors needs to be able to play center. Because he is too good not to keep and too good not to be put into the starting lineup next year.


C and PG are the positions Utah has to fill. Nash, Dragic, Deron (hahaha) are the PG's who are unrestricted and they're all great. Lowry exists as a trade possibility. You never know with Danny Dumbass in Boston.



At center, we all know Bogut has already been traded and the only guy really worth pushing at is the best guy in the league. And there's no reason to think he's coming to Utah.



Almost too many options. I know how Xiao Yao You (and some other fans) feels about Enes Kanter, but that was a horrible draft pick. I know you're not a fan of Al Jefferson but he's great and better than Kanter ever will be. All I know is that you have too many pieces to not try and trade for a big player. Tho I don't even know who you might want to trade for.

He can play center? :confusedshrug: He was the starting center when Jefferson was out.

Why was that a horrible draft pick? Because he hasn't lit it up in his rookie season even though he's a pick straight from high school essentially.

Everyone knew Kanter would be a project, so there's no evidence to say he's going to be great or bad so far. He played some good basketball off the bench against the Magic, but struggled like a big man rookie would against the Suns last night.

[Whoah10115]

He can play center? :confusedshrug:

Why was that a horrible draft pick? Because he hasn't lit it up in his rookie season even though he's a pick straight from high school essentially.




I know he can technically play center. But I hope he's able to really be just as good there as he can be at PF. Because he's very very good and the fact that his defense is what's standing out right now...that should make him scary to the rest of the league.



Enes Kanter does not have as much upside as any one of Jefferson, Millsap, Favors. And they were all already on the team...I don't see how he's a top 3 pick in any draft, but much less on a team like the Jazz.

[33teeth]

Revisiting this again.

Favors with 13 points, 11 rebounds, 5 blocks in 29 minutes in the Jazz's biggest game of the year against the Suns. Along with 16 points, 11 rebounds against the Magic the game before.

I'm not even sure the points and rebounds are the story about him, Favors basically shut down Gortat with 5 blocks in the 1st half. Stuff like this doesn't really show up in the box score and it's something Monroe or Cousins haven't done.

Once Favors finally figures out how to finish at the rim and has the touch at the rim, his offensive game will blow up as well.

Monroe and Cousins have done things that Favors hasn't done too. They'll all get there. Cousins sure has work to do on consistency and defense, but I'd take him over Favors and Monroe. 32 points last night, 29 the game before... 9 games with 18 or more boards.

[ILLsmak]

BIG CUZ.

-Smak

[Xiao Yao You]

Once Favors finally figures out how to finish at the rim and has the touch at the rim, his offensive game will blow up as well.

In Utah he's going to have to learn how to set screens and run a pick and roll and ideally be able to play in the high post as well as the low. Obviously they'll need a pg that can run the pick and roll and Harris is just barely starting to get a handle on that.


Watching yesterday, one thing is definitive: Favors needs to be able to play center. Because he is too good not to keep and too good not to be put into the starting lineup next year.

The problem is you just watched yesterday. His motor is still questionable at this stage and offensively Kanter looks to be a better fit in Utah at this stage and he plays tough D and rebounds too. I'm all for Kanter and Favors playing instead of Al though.


Nash, Dragic, Deron (hahaha) are the PG's who are unrestricted and they're all great.

Lin should be available if Phil Jackson coaches the Knicks. Sessions might fit too.


You never know with Danny Dumbass in Boston.

The architect of their Championship is a dumbass?




Enes Kanter, but that was a horrible draft pick. I know you're not a fan of Al Jefferson but he's great and better than Kanter ever will be. All I know is that you have too many pieces to not try and trade for a big player. Tho I don't even know who you might want to trade for.

Kanter is a better defender already and looks as if he could be the next elite rebounder in the league. He appears to have the tools to play in Utah's offense as well. Jefferson does but he loves isolation too much. He's the one to go.


Enes Kanter does not have as much upside as any one of Jefferson, Millsap, Favors. And they were all already on the team...I don't see how he's a top 3 pick in any draft, but much less on a team like the Jazz.

Youngest guy in the league. Didn't play last year. Has already came a long ways in the past 5 months. Fits what the Jazz do offensively better than Favors and is more willing than Jefferson. Hayward pick was booed but he's looking like the best pick they could have made for what they do.


Monroe and Cousins have done things that Favors hasn't done too. They'll all get there. Cousins sure has work to do on consistency and defense, but I'd take him over Favors and Monroe.

Monroe who I'm pretty sure the Jazz wanted and Cousins who supposedly they wanted after the Westphal deal are better fits in Utah offensively but Favors is better defensively and Cousins is a headcase.

[UtahJazzFan88]

In Utah he's going to have to learn how to set screens and run a pick and roll and ideally be able to play in the high post as well as the low. Obviously they'll need a pg that can run the pick and roll and Harris is just barely starting to get a handle on that.

Favors is already solid at setting up PnR's, Harris and even Tinsley are not really players who run the pick and roll that much though. But Favors has been great at attacking the rim and going to the line at PnR's. Kanter will probably end up being the better high post player.

Favors has shown a lot of improvement in his game though, he will break out even more on offense if he can get a better jump shot, improve FT% (which he already has a good bit this season), and finish/touch at the rim.

I like Cousins and you can make a case for ALL 3 who are all going to be great players, but I would be interested to see Cousins statline in a winning situation and winning culture, him & Monroe both are putting up somewhat empty stats because they do not have the talent around him that Utah has.

[Xiao Yao You]

Favors is already solid at setting up PnR's, Harris and even Tinsley are not really players who run the pick and roll that much though. But Favors has been great at attacking the rim and going to the line at PnR's. Kanter will probably end up being the better high post player.

He's shown a better low post game too and I think he's just learning how to play down there. He was a high post player like most Euros.



I like Cousins and you can make a case for ALL 3 who are all going to be great players, but I would be interested to see Cousins statline in a winning situation and winning culture, him & Monroe both are putting up somewhat empty stats because they do not have the talent around him that Utah has.

Detroit finished strong though. Kings have been a lot better since the coaching change too but Cousins has a lot to prove maturity wise. Definitely good for Favors and Kanter to be playing on a competitive team all year and now a playoff run as much as many thought they should tank and play them big minutes and go for another high lottery pick.

[Whoah10115]

The problem is you just watched yesterday. His motor is still questionable at this stage and offensively Kanter looks to be a better fit in Utah at this stage and he plays tough D and rebounds too. I'm all for Kanter and Favors playing instead of Al though.



I've watched them all season. I understand how he can be. But he's also coming off the bench. Some guys just don't excel in that kind of role. He's too good not to get in there.




Lin should be available if Phil Jackson coaches the Knicks. Sessions might fit too.


I've thought of Sessions, but I doubt he leaves LA. I doubt that Lin leaves, but he works very well in your system.




The architect of their Championship is a dumbass?



Yep. He's lucked into a lot. While he's also made great moves (Bass the most recent example) he has whacked ideas that are just brain-type-dead. I would not put it past him. Besides, he'd be giving to his the state of his alma mater.




Kanter is a better defender already and looks as if he could be the next elite rebounder in the league. He appears to have the tools to play in Utah's offense as well. Jefferson does but he loves isolation too much. He's the one to go.




Jeferson is not a very good defender, tho he is a very good shot-blocker. But he's also played center the majority of his career. He's clearly not a center. I understand he doesn't fit your system, but you dislike him too much and he's not inferior to Paul Millsap. Jefferson is the better player, even if he isn't the better player for this team. But I agree with you that it's better for everyone if he goes.




Youngest guy in the league. Didn't play last year. Has already came a long ways in the past 5 months. Fits what the Jazz do offensively better than Favors and is more willing than Jefferson. Hayward pick was booed but he's looking like the best pick they could have made for what they do.



Hayward wasn't the 3rd pick in the draft. He also isn't the 3rd "Is he a C, or is he a PF" (I think he's a C) on the team...not to mention Millsap. He is young, but his upside is limited. He's a great rebounder. He might even be elite (Faried is better but that's another story). If they're gonna draft him, then it made no sense to keep both Millsap and Jefferson (especially Jefferson)...even if it meant getting into this year's playoffs. Should have traded Jefferson before the season. He looks like a solid player but the draft was much better than anyone acknowledged. I just don't see how he's a 3rd pick in any draft...but to be the 3rd pick, for this team, with these big guys...that makes less than 0 sense...unless you had a trade lined up for someone else. And they didn't.

[Xiao Yao You]

I understand how he can be. But he's also coming off the bench. Some guys just don't excel in that kind of role. He's too good not to get in there.

He's had his chances to start and play big minutes. Until Jefferson is gone(or god forbid Millsap) he might have no choice unless they bench Millsap which is more of an option if they play him at the 3 like they finally did late but he needs to be in at the end of games and that is more complicated if he's not starting and they didn't play him at the 3 til injuries forced the issue so who knows if they'll continue with that though it seems obvious that they should.


I've thought of Sessions, but I doubt he leaves LA.

They might have to pay him and they haven't been spending money of late.


I doubt that Lin leaves, but he works very well in your system.

If Phil goes to NY he makes little sense in the triangle.


he has whacked ideas that are just brain-type-dead. I would not put it past him.

Like?


he's also played center the majority of his career. He's clearly not a center.

I think he's mostly played PF before coming to Utah. That's one reason Minnesota traded him so Love could play.


he's not inferior to Paul Millsap.

In the Jazz system he is certainly much more inferior than Millsap as would other less rounded but maybe more thought of PF's. Their offense needs multi faceted guys which he and Hayward exemplify.


Jefferson is the better player

Based on what? Stats? He was a huge upgrade on Boozer but they already had that in Millsap at least 3 years ago. Putting Favors and Kanter next to him makes a lot more sense especially with the needs they have elsewhere and him going into the last year of his contract.


I agree with you that it's better for everyone if he goes.

Afraid the front office and coaching staff doesn't though. Will be interesting to see how it shakes out over the next year plus.


Hayward wasn't the 3rd pick in the draft.

No but I brought him up because Jazz fans booed when he was selected and recently on ISH everyone had George(who the Jazz could have drafted) and I forget who else ahead of G. Doubt George would be as good in Utah as G as I'm not convinced Kanter isn't going to be a better fit than other guys they could have taken. He has a ways to go but he shows great progress already. I thought they probably should have taken the Lithuanian based on what has been said about him. They could have waited a year and thrown Evans or another vet into the mix as their 4th big in the meantime.


He also isn't the 3rd "Is he a C, or is he a PF" (I think he's a C) on the team

That's just based on match-ups at the defensive end though. Offensively he has shown great progress in the low post along with what I believe is his natural place in the high post as Jazz big men ideally need to be able to do.


He's a great rebounder. He might even be elite (Faried is better but that's another story).

Not sure about that. Stats have been shown this year that put him in a class with Love and Shaq as rookies. Faried isn't ging to improve as much.


If they're gonna draft him, then it made no sense to keep both Millsap and Jefferson (especially Jefferson)...even if it meant getting into this year's playoffs. Should have traded Jefferson before the season.

Going into the season he sounded like a project that we shouldn't expect much from. I figured he'd be down in the D-league where Evans should have been. He exceeded that and than some. So in retrospect yes they should have dealt Jefferson but than I still don't understand them acquiring Jefferson to begin with when Millsap had already proven himself more than capable. They needed someone next to him like they might now have in Favors and Kanter.


I just don't see how he's a 3rd pick in any draft...but to be the 3rd pick, for this team, with these big guys...that makes less than 0 sense...unless you had a trade lined up for someone else. And they didn't.

Because he's big and skilled. Those guys are hard to come by. Jazz haven't had a lot of them over the years certainly not 4 at one time and one of them can play the 3 as well. They knew Jefferson and Millsap would be free agents after next year. You take the best players for your team. The Jeff Ruland comparison is the best one I've saw yet and if he's anywhere near that good he could definitely be a worthy 3rd pick in time.

Who says the youngest guy in the league has to play right away at the NBA level? That's a big problem with the league right now. It's not set up to give guys time to develop and this year with no summer, short training camp and little practice time it's even more magnified. They should have a lot better idea of what they have going forward this time next year.

The guy Toronto got sounds like he could make them look bad for not having the patience to wait a year which they easily could have with the bigs they had. Was there a pg or wing that fit what Utah does deserving of the pick? Apparently they didn't think so because they had all of them in town before the draft and Burks has the skill set to succeed in their system and they got him later.

[Whoah10115]

If Phil goes to NY he makes little sense in the triangle.




I really don't want Phil Jackson. Better chance that he's extended and traded. Letting him walk is crazy.







I think he's mostly played PF before coming to Utah. That's one reason Minnesota traded him so Love could play.




He's played a least half the time at center, with different guys. What became more and more clear at Minnesota was that he's much better as a PF than he is as a C. Love made him expendable. But I agree that for Utah it didn't make much sense. Jefferson is a very capable center tho. I think you would have been better off holding out and trying to make a push for a true center. But the fact that Jefferson can play center well...they took a shot.








In the Jazz system he is certainly much more inferior than Millsap as would other less rounded but maybe more thought of PF's. Their offense needs multi faceted guys which he and Hayward exemplify.




Agreed. Which is the only reason I agree with taking Hayward over George. Hayward is going to be very good, make an all-star game or two. But Paul George has more. Hayward does all the little things tho...a lot like we're saying Parsons do this year. Only Hayward is a more capable playmaker.






That's just based on match-ups at the defensive end though. Offensively he has shown great progress in the low post along with what I believe is his natural place in the high post as Jazz big men ideally need to be able to do.



[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You]

Not sure about that. Stats have been shown this year that put him in a class with Love and Shaq as rookies. Faried isn't ging to improve as much.





Don't be so sure on Faried. He might be the best rebounder in the NBA in 2 years. And I mean that.







Because he's big and skilled. Those guys are hard to come by. Jazz haven't had a lot of them over the years certainly not 4 at one time and one of them can play the 3 as well. They knew Jefferson and Millsap would be free agents after next year. You take the best players for your team. The Jeff Ruland comparison is the best one I've saw yet and if he's anywhere near that good he could definitely be a worthy 3rd pick in time.




I don't think he has that much skill. From what I know of Ruland, he was an incredible passer. I see Kanter as a very direct player. He rebounds, plays physical, good defense, great at setting screens and stuff like that...and it looks like he might excel at running the floor. I guess he could be good next to Favors...but I'm stuck on how much I like Millsap on this team.






Who says the youngest guy in the league has to play right away at the NBA level? That's a big problem with the league right now. It's not set up to give guys time to develop and this year with no summer, short training camp and little practice time it's even more magnified. They should have a lot better idea of what they have going forward this time next year.

The guy Toronto got sounds like he could make them look bad for not having the patience to wait a year which they easily could have with the bigs they had. Was there a pg or wing that fit what Utah does deserving of the pick? Apparently they didn't think so because they had all of them in town before the draft and Burks has the skill set to succeed in their system and they got him later.




He doesn't have to play right away...but for a team with all the big guys your team has, with a draft pick that high on a guy that raw...I don't get it...I get it for the big Lithuanian. From what I've heard and the bits I've seen, he looks like he could end up being a monster. If you're gonna draft a guy to develop, that early..then go after the guy with the higher upside. They have time to develop Kanter, so they have time to wait on Lithuania. And he's a pure center.

[phazed out]

Dmc>>>>

[Xiao Yao You]

I really don't want Phil Jackson. Better chance that he's extended and traded. Letting him walk is crazy.

Yeah but if Phil is there he is a trade asset not a playing asset.


I think you would have been better off holding out and trying to make a push for a true center. But the fact that Jefferson can play center well...they took a shot.

They were trying to keep Deron and Sloan happy I think. Deron wanted help and Jerry needed his low post pick and roll guys and for some reason didn't feel Millsap was it despite what he'd already shown. It put them way into luxury tax territory and they gave up a lot so it didn't need to be made. Why not Tyson Chandler or someone that doesn't do the same things as a guy you already have?


Don't be so sure on Faried. He might be the best rebounder in the NBA in 2 years. And I mean that.

He might be but with Howard(assuming he's ever the same) and Love their are a couple all--timers already. He'll have to improve his overall game to stay on the court though like Millsap has.


I don't think he has that much skill. From what I know of Ruland, he was an incredible passer. I see Kanter as a very direct player. He rebounds, plays physical, good defense, great at setting screens and stuff like that...and it looks like he might excel at running the floor. I guess he could be good next to Favors...

He hasn't shown the passing yet but he continues to show more and more in all other aspects so I wouldn't really be surprised at anything he does. He and Favors seem good together. Favors has more work to do offensively and hasn't shown the growth but that's understandable considering where Kanter is coming from at 19 and not playing last year.


I'm stuck on how much I like Millsap on this team.

Think he would be hard to replace. He and Hayward are the two guys they need to be building around based on what G has shown of late. I
I'd be looking to extend Millsap this summer.


If you're gonna draft a guy to develop, that early..then go after the guy with the higher upside. They have time to develop Kanter, so they have time to wait on Lithuania. And he's a pure center.

Agreed. Minnesota didn't want to wait either but maybe they though there guys were better?