Is Kobe Bryant still in his Prime?

[RUCKER]

Are his best years behind him? Is he on the tail half of his prime? Have we yet to see his best games?

Would you say he's peaking right now, and he'll start his career decline, mid-way through this season?

In your honest opinion, where would you grade Kobe at? How much longer can he remain the best player in the NBA?

How do you even determine when a player is at his best? Is he just now entering his mental prime? But considerably out of his physical prime?

Someone please break down this Kobe saga and tell me where he's at. It's bothering me. I keep expecting to see this huge drop off in Kobe's skills and talents based on what all these LeBron fan's are saying. "Wait until he can't elevate for his jumper like he used to, he'll be a shell of his former self within 2-3 seasons, tops." and they said that a couple seasons ago. So I'm just waiting for the day I can honestly say, Kobe is no longer the best player in the NBA.

But what's going on? I thought we were supposed to be seeing this dramatic decline already? I haven't seen a decline in any area, have you?

[monkeypox]

He's well out of his prime. He's just doing a good job of covering for it with his work ethic, but he's been out of his athletic prime.

[TryToBeUnbias]

No, but old man Kobes game is pretty deadly ..

[Birmingham1955]

Are his best years behind him? Is he on the tail half of his prime? Have we yet to see his best games?

Would you say he's peaking right now, and he'll start his career decline, mid-way through this season?

In your honest opinion, where would you grade Kobe at? How much longer can he remain the best player in the NBA?

How do you even determine when a player is at his best? Is he just now entering his mental prime? But considerably out of his physical prime?

Someone please break down this Kobe saga and tell me where he's at. It's bothering me. I keep expecting to see this huge drop off in Kobe's skills and talents based on what all these LeBron fan's are saying. "Wait until he can't elevate for his jumper like he used to, he'll be a shell of his former self within 2-3 seasons, tops." and they said that a couple seasons ago. So I'm just waiting for the day I can honestly say, Kobe is no longer the best player in the NBA.

But what's going on? I thought we were supposed to be seeing this dramatic decline already? I haven't seen a decline in any area, have you?

Kobe once he has his legs at the beginning of the year is very impressive. It is the grind of the season when we will be able to tell, we know he will bring it come playoff time. The guy finished eating alive whole OJ Mayo and Tyreke Evans in which he put a 30 point triple double on back to back nights. Those two probably the best two youn shooting guards in the game.

[Droid101]

Kobe has been playing prime superstar basketball for 10 years straight. He's truly a rare specimen.

His ups aren't all there anymore, but he's smarter than ever and knows how to school the young kids of the league.

[All Net]

athletic prime? YES

however he has gotten better as time has gone on. I said it before if he stays injury feel he will still be considered a top 10 player even by age 35 as his game is built to last. He has adjusted his game each year.

[ronniec]

don't know, but I do know his team keeps winning.

may be he dunk less, and not often drive to the basket caused a false image for us, and think he is over his prime. It could possibly that he is changing his playing style, and reserve more for the playoff, as he is getting more injuries than before. Just like MJ get his 2nd 3-peat...

he just got a triple double last night...

[KenneBell]

His best days are behind him IMO. That's not to say he's not an elite player anymore.

I just don't think he's going to fall off as quickly as people expect.

[asdf1990]

manu's prime>kobe's prime

[Indian guy]

No.

Peak was 05-07. Still only 32 though. Superstars don't stop being one at that age.

[All Net]

His best days are behind him IMO. That's not to say he's not an elite player anymore.

I just don't think he's going to fall off as quickly as people expect.

He's going be playing at this level for a good deal longer..thats for sure health permitting.

[HBKMGa]

manu's prime>kobe's prime

bashing is one thing, but you just look like a fool here.

[New York Knicks]

I think Kobe of the last 3 years are the best versions of Kobe.

[RUCKER]

Kobe does adjust his style of play to cater to the long term. It's become more of a finesse game, but still plays with the same intensity and aggressiveness. He just doesn't drive to the rim like he used to.

A lot of those hard fouls come from driving to the rim, type of fouls that shed years off players careers. Which has me asking, how much longer can Dwayne Wade last? He's coming up on 28, and he's still taking it to the rim as hard as ever with the same reckless abandon.

[All Net]

Kobe does adjust his style of play to cater to the long term. It's become more of a finesse game, but still plays with the same intensity and aggressiveness. He just doesn't drive to the rim like he used to.

A lot of those hard fouls come from driving to the rim, type of fouls that shed years off players careers. Which has me asking, how much longer can Dwayne Wade last? He's coming up on 28, and he's still taking it to the rim as hard as ever with the same reckless abandon.


Both Lebron and Wade will need to adjust their games, Wade is skilled though so he should adjust but I don't see him being as effective as Kobe will be at say age 33/34.

Which is why I think it's going overboard when people say Miami will be winning titles or contending for a good 6 years.

[caliman]

manu's prime>kobe's prime


:roll: :roll: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[crisoner]

I think Kobe of the last 3 years are the best versions of Kobe.

THIS

He does not have the young athletic skills he once had...but Kobe mentally now makes him a far better player at the moment. In a couple years his knees will tire and it will be time to hang them up...but he has more then alot left in the tank and this version of Kobe is racking up titles.

[New York Knicks]

Kobe does adjust his style of play to cater to the long term. It's become more of a finesse game, but still plays with the same intensity and aggressiveness. He just doesn't drive to the rim like he used to.

A lot of those hard fouls come from driving to the rim, type of fouls that shed years off players careers. Which has me asking, how much longer can Dwayne Wade last? He's coming up on 28, and he's still taking it to the rim as hard as ever with the same reckless abandon.
His game has always been a finesse game. If you look at 02-03 (the year people consider him to be in his athletic prime), 80% (78% I think) of his FGAs were jumpshots.

[All Net]

His game has always been a finesse game. If you look at 02-03 (the year people consider him to be in his athletic prime), 80% (78% I think) of his FGAs were jumpshots.

Which isa big reason why his game has been able to last and will continue to be playing at a high level in his mid 30's.

[Rolando]

Kobe's game is really great to watch right now. He still is very physically capable but he is also slick with his moves and footwork. I'd much prefer this style.

Guys like Wade and Lebron aren't nearly as interesting to watch. They shoot the threes or sprint in for a dunk....not very interesting from my perspective.

Pierce, Kobe and Grant Hill show you great style, footwork and skillset of a highly developed mid-range game.

[97 bulls]

It all depends on what you consider prime. Id say he still is cuz he more mature as a basketball player. And I don't see a drop in his athleticism. He's just more cerebral. Which in some ways makes him a better player now, than when he was in his 20s.

[kingkong]

he's not in his athletic prime but he's still good enough physically to be in his overall prime

so he's smart enough and good enough to make up for slowdowns

[12shyloc26]

Kobe's game is really great to watch right now. He still is very physically capable but he is also slick with his moves and footwork. I'd much prefer this style.

Guys like Wade and Lebron aren't nearly as interesting to watch. They shoot the threes or sprint in for a dunk....not very interesting from my perspective.

Pierce, Kobe and Grant Hill show you great style, footwork and skillset of a highly developed mid-range game.

I concur. I just wish he'd consider his FG % when he's out there in garbage time. He could have had a good shooting % last night, but he decided to test Luther Head. That didn't work out so well. He's amazing in starts of games, closing out, not so much. BUT, I'd still have him take the last shot out of everyone in the Lakers roster.

BTW, I love the avy. I hated Big baby that day. Lol.

[kingkong]

I concur. I just wish he'd consider his FG % when he's out there in garbage time. He could have had a good shooting % last night, but he decided to test Luther Head. That didn't work out so well. He's amazing in starts of games, closing out, not so much. BUT, I'd still have him take the last shot out of everyone in the Lakers roster.

BTW, I love the avy. I hated Big baby that day. Lol.

lol yeah, that shot where he dribbled for 24 seconds and took the 3 was 'good' because it wasted time but bad for stats

[Rolando]

I concur. I just wish he'd consider his FG % when he's out there in garbage time. He could have had a good shooting % last night, but he decided to test Luther Head. That didn't work out so well. He's amazing in starts of games, closing out, not so much. BUT, I'd still have him take the last shot out of everyone in the Lakers roster.

BTW, I love the avy. I hated Big baby that day. Lol.

I notice that about Kobe too.....not afraid to take crazy shots that kill his shooting percentage.

Big Baby!....gonna be sixth man of the year this year:rockon:

[scm5]

I concur. I just wish he'd consider his FG % when he's out there in garbage time. He could have had a good shooting % last night, but he decided to test Luther Head. That didn't work out so well. He's amazing in starts of games, closing out, not so much. BUT, I'd still have him take the last shot out of everyone in the Lakers roster.

BTW, I love the avy. I hated Big baby that day. Lol.

Hahah, that's what I love about Kobe though. He doesn't consider his stats really.

Did you notice that on his 10th rebound that Odom practically gift-wrapped for Kobe, Kobe hesitated on taking it cuz he knew it was Odom's. There was a moment that both players were looking at each other thinking, "are you gonna take it?"

Also, on one of his 3's, Artest gave Kobe the ball with like 3 or 4 seconds left on the shot clock. Kobe was just like,"Well, eff this." and shot a 3.

[sagr32]

People have been questioning Kobe the past two years and saying the wear and tear of him playing so long is going to take its toll.
But none of that is coming from what is happening on the court. they just expect him to start slowing down.
Hasn't happened yet outside of his athleticism which has seen a noticable drop.
His game has gotten a lot more cerebral the past few years though that certainly has helped.

[sagr32]

Also, on one of his 3's, Artest gave Kobe the ball with like 3 or 4 seconds left on the shot clock. Kobe was just like,"Well, eff this." and shot a 3.
that is one thing that really skews kobe's fg%. The lakers ALWAYS give the ball to Kobe is there are 5 or seconds left on the shot clock. It's understandable because he definetely is the most likely to make those shots but it also hurts his fg% because he has to bail them out.

[Avon Barksdale]

He is no longer in his prime, but he's not too far removed from it. He can give prime performances still, just not every game.

[opps]

It depends on if you are more impressed with flashy dunks & hops or fundamentals & pure skills. No Kobe is not as athletic as he once was but he is playing basketball much better & smarter than when he was younger. So my answer is yes Kobe is in prime.

[ImmortalD24]

No. He already past his prime.

There are 3 type of people who believe he's still in his prime:

1. The delusional fanboys who can't grip to the reality that Kobe is indeed declining and that he isn't immortal.

2. The new fan who hasn't really seen Kobe pre-08 and believe he's just developed these skills recently.

3. The blatant hater ala New York Knicks

http://i54.tinypic.com/104f3wg.jpg

[monkeypox]

The funny thing is that it's LeBron sitting out practices with a bum leg.

[Papaya Petee]

Kobe's physical prime 2002-2003

Kobe's physical and mental prime 2005-2006

Kobe's mental prime 2007-2008


Come on now guys, Kobe isn't what he used to be athletically, but he is very skilled so he covers it up well. If he would be asked that question, he would tell you it's more difficult for him to get places on the court he used to, but he still gets the job done. It obviously doesn't look like the game is more difficult to him, but he just has to try harder now, because 4-5 years ago it came super easy for him.

[New York Knicks]

LOL, I'm a hater because I think he's still in his prime? Ok. Come on, ImmortalD24, you're the joke of the internet basketball message boards. I see your username spamming Kobe trash everywhere.

[Papaya Petee]

LOL, I'm a hater because I think he's still in his prime? Ok. Come on, ImmortalD24, you're the joke of the internet basketball message boards. I see your username spamming Kobe trash everywhere.
You're wrong. If you can't see the difference between Kobe's speed in 2002-2003 or 2005-2006 compared to 2010-2011, or Kobe's jumps, the the way he slides his feet, or how hard he goes every game, then I'm sorry, you're just wrong.

[Replay32]

I think Kobe of the last 3 years are the best versions of Kobe.

This.

[New York Knicks]

You're wrong. If you can't see the difference between Kobe's speed in 2002-2003 or 2005-2006 compared to 2010-2011, or Kobe's jumps, the the way he slides his feet, or how hard he goes every game, then I'm sorry, you're just wrong.
Wrong about? I said he's still in his prime. Did I say he was 100% just as quick as he was 8 years ago? No. But there isn't this huge difference everyone's talking about. Why do people keep putting words in my mouth? Just argue what's there.

[sagr32]

Kobe's physical prime 2002-2003

Kobe's physical and mental prime 2005-2006

Kobe's mental prime 2007-2008


Come on now guys, Kobe isn't what he used to be athletically, but he is very skilled so he covers it up well. If he would be asked that question, he would tell you it's more difficult for him to get places on the court he used to, but he still gets the job done. It obviously doesn't look like the game is more difficult to him, but he just has to try harder now, because 4-5 years ago it came super easy for him.
How is his mental prime going to end? Wouldn't a player gain more and more knowledge of the game and his team as he ages?

[New York Knicks]

People need to realize the difference between a large drop in athleticism and a better understanding of economy of motion. Kobe paces himself now better than he did in the past.

[DukeDelonte13]

Does it really matter if he's winning chips like a boss?

He's passed his physical prime, but he's still Kobe.

[BlueandGold]

He's not in his prime just like Jordan wasn't in his prime from 96-98.

[Euroleague]

He's a bit past his prime, or this might still be his prime, but the last season of it.

[IGOTGAME]

Wrong about? I said he's still in his prime. Did I say he was 100% just as quick as he was 8 years ago? No. But there isn't this huge difference everyone's talking about. Why do people keep putting words in my mouth? Just argue what's there.

There is a huge difference between how quick Kobe was in his rookie year. There is a big difference from 2004.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59o2YYh8AS0

loke at 4.30. That is MUCH quicker than Kobe now. Lets not even get into the decline in vertical(See 7:00-7:10 and 7:30).

[monkeypox]

People need to realize the difference between a large drop in athleticism and a better understanding of economy of motion. Kobe paces himself now better than he did in the past.

Uh... he's not as fast, can't jump as high, isn't as explosive. That right there is the definition of no longer being in your athletic prime. It makes you sound like a hater, just like me saying that Jordan currently has never been more athletic than he is right now. You're saying he's still in his prime like it's a complement when you really mean to ignore those years when he was significantly faster and more explosive. Yeah he's adjusted his game to suit his body, but that doesn't mean he's still in his athletic prime.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Prime prime prime, not sure.
Ring ring ring, pretty sure.

[lefthook00]

He's not in his prime just like Jordan wasn't in his prime from 96-98.

That's a great way to put it.

[New York Knicks]

Uh... he's not as fast, can't jump as high, isn't as explosive. That right there is the definition of no longer being in your athletic prime. It makes you sound like a hater, just like me saying that Jordan currently has never been more athletic than he is right now. You're saying he's still in his prime like it's a complement when you really mean to ignore those years when he was significantly faster and more explosive. Yeah he's adjusted his game to suit his body, but that doesn't mean he's still in his athletic prime.
Except anybody with eyes can tell the difference. Instead of Kobe fans trying to rewrite history to make Kobe seem like a better player than what he is. He's a finesse player. Always has been. Jordan, Carter, LeBron. Those guys are athletic freaks. Every version of Kobe is several notches below those guys in terms of athleticism. Stop trying to make it seem like Kobe's close.

[macpierce]

Except anybody with eyes can tell the difference. Instead of Kobe fans trying to rewrite history to make Kobe seem like a better player than what he is. He's a finesse player. Always has been. Jordan, Carter, LeBron. Those guys are athletic freaks. Every version of Kobe is several notches below those guys in terms of athleticism. Stop trying to make it seem like Kobe's close.
kobe is in a slight tier below those 3, it's not as big of a jump as you make it out to be though

[Hihater]

Except anybody with eyes can tell the difference. Instead of Kobe fans trying to rewrite history to make Kobe seem like a better player than what he is. He's a finesse player. Always has been. Jordan, Carter, LeBron. Those guys are athletic freaks. Every version of Kobe is several notches below those guys in terms of athleticism. Stop trying to make it seem like Kobe's close.
:facepalm :facepalm Did u just start watching basketball after lebron join the heat or something?? wow how old r u btw.. by the way u post..i bet u not even old enough to watch jordan play in his prime.

carter and lebron is a freak...no other player is like them and no one even said he is athetic like them 2 but still how can you denied that kobe pass his prime..he used to alloy oop and dunk over people.(reverse dunk)

[AirTupac]

Physically ... obviously not

but i mean he covers other aspects of his game to make up for it and so i'd still say he is in his prime. :rockon:

[monkeypox]

Except anybody with eyes can tell the difference. Instead of Kobe fans trying to rewrite history to make Kobe seem like a better player than what he is. He's a finesse player. Always has been. Jordan, Carter, LeBron. Those guys are athletic freaks. Every version of Kobe is several notches below those guys in terms of athleticism. Stop trying to make it seem like Kobe's close.

Yeah, so this has nothing to do with Kobe's prime and everything to do with your private war against Kobe homers? That's pretty much what everyone is telling you. The athleticism of Jordan, james, and Carter has nothing to do with Kobe's prime. His prime is relative to himself only. This is why you're a hater, crap like this.

[KenneBell]

NYK at it again.

LMAO at him trying to tell people that Kobe wasn't more athletic than Ray Allen or Larry Hughes and that he had a 35 inch vertical. :oldlol:

[BallsOut]

NYK at it again.

LMAO at him trying to tell people that Kobe wasn't more athletic than Ray Allen or Larry Hughes and that he had a 35 inch vertical. :oldlol:

He also said something along the lines of Kobe was never more athletic than he was last season. :oldlol:

[RazorBaLade]

NYK is such a joke of a poster

[BlueandGold]

Except anybody with eyes can tell the difference. Instead of Kobe fans trying to rewrite history to make Kobe seem like a better player than what he is. He's a finesse player. Always has been. Jordan, Carter, LeBron. Those guys are athletic freaks. Every version of Kobe is several notches below those guys in terms of athleticism. Stop trying to make it seem like Kobe's close.

I know your a troll so don't bother responding to what I say but anybody else name me one "finesse" player that has jumped from high school to the NBA.

[macpierce]

He also said something along the lines of Kobe was never more athletic than he was last season. :oldlol:
NYK, what an idiot :banana:

[NbaFan432]

I don't think Kobe is anywhere near what he was in his prime. . I mean really, I remember watching him a few years back and never knowing what to expect, dude was just amazing every game

[All Net]

I don't think Kobe is anywhere near what he was in his prime. . I mean really, I remember watching him a few years back and never knowing what to expect, dude was just amazing every game

As compared to these days? when he averaged 29, 7 and 6 in the playoffs and having back to back 30 point games with a triple double?

[RaceBannana]

He is not in his prime but he is playing amazing ball.... hope he keeps the good job.

[Soundwave]

I generally look at 27-32 as the prime age for basketball players provided they don't have reoccurring injuries -- we are talking physical + mental prime.

So yes, by that metric he would be in his prime, but probably at the tail end of it.

[KenneBell]

As compared to these days?
No compared to the days when he was legitimate 40-50+ point threat every night. '06-'07 Kobe was pretty damn awesome to watch.

He's got the team and oldman domination down but it's like '91-'93 MJ vs '96-'98. The earlier years were just more fun to watch.

[All Net]

No compared to the days when he was legitimate 40-50+ point threat every night. '06-'07 Kobe was pretty damn awesome to watch.

He's got the team and oldman domination down but it's like '91-'93 MJ vs '96-'98. The earlier years were just more fun to watch.

You seriously think he couldn't be a 40-50 point threat right now if he wanted to? he could if he was on a lesser team. Granted he would run out of steam more now than he would back then but he could still put up big numbers.

Not saying he is as good as he was 05-07 as he isn't but he isn't way off what he once was. He's gotten older but is still a top 2-3 player. Alot may still consider him the best.

[TDPrime2030]

Physical Prime? No.
Mental Prime? Yes.

I don't think Kobe has ever been smarter or skilled as he currently is in his career.

[ZeN]

No compared to the days when he was legitimate 40-50+ point threat every night. '06-'07 Kobe was pretty damn awesome to watch.

He's got the team and oldman domination down but it's like '91-'93 MJ vs '96-'98. The earlier years were just more fun to watch.

If scoring in high quantities was Kobes only purpose right now (as it was in '06-'07) he could definitely still score 40 on most nights. Granted not with the ease that he did then, but he has the ability to go off when ever he wishes.

The thing is that no one wants him to score so much and were thankful that he understands that himself.

The last couple of years Bryant has shown maturity in getting his team involved first and then trying to make something happen in the fourth. Im sure that the change is due to his now having bountiful talent around him.. unlike in '06-'07.

[KobeKlutch]

Kobe has lost some of his athleticism but he's still in his prime as a player. He's doing stuff that a 32 year old normally wouldn't do, he was that sick as a youngster, in terms of athletic ability.

[LakersFan626]

Yes. He doesn't have as many 40+ point games as he used to but he doesn't have to anymore because his team has had depth the last few years, unlike when he had his 81 point game (which I saw a replay of last night and the whole team outside of Kobe played bad pretty much). He's not as athletic as he used to be but he makes up for it with his overall skills such as footwork, drawing fouls (especially with the younger defenders), shooting range, and overall basketball IQ. This part has allowed Kobe to be a superstar for so long and makes him more effective at his age than LeBron or Wade will be due to their slashing styles unless they develop more consistent jumpers and post games, like Jordan did in the second three peat and Kobe's doing now. He'll still be in his prime for another couple years I think.

[KobeKlutch]

Probably another MVP.

[ILLsmak]

I don't think so. He's in his second prime, like Jordan.

I hate how people say Kobe was in his prime from 05 to 07. That's bull. Just because Kobe had an amazing 35 ppg season he was in his prime? What about putting up 30 ppg alongside another 30ppg scorer?

I think Kobe's prime began the year after he won the first one with Shaq and maybe started to end in about 07-08.

So, from 00-01 to 07-08. Not that he wasn't good before and isn't still a beast now, but Kobe just isn't as good as he was before. He's not even close to as good. Nobody could guard Kobe when he was in his true prime, period. Now some guys give him trouble and he seems to have more off games nowadays. But now he actually seems like a willing passer.

Kobe could easily get 10 assists per game if people were making the shots, I don't know why he doesn't. Because even now nobody expects him to pass. He usually passes for awhile then is like "Okay got 10... requirement for possible triple double met, time to start rebounding!" lol.

-Smak

[Papaya Petee]

You don't think he can be a 40-50 point threat?
No, he can't be a 40-50 point threat right now. He was a 30-40 point threat in his best season 2005-2006 playing on a lesser team.

[Brickz187]

Don't know what people are considering prime, but I would take Kobe now over any Kobe In the past. So in my opinion yes he is in his prime, probably closer to the end of it.

[RoTM]

Hes mentally the same player he always was. Hes certainly slowed down. He would never admit it and benefits greatly from Pau.

[lakerspng]

As a player he is in his prime.

As an athlete he is past his prime.

As a leader and teammate, he's the best he's ever been.

As a Laker fan, i'm in my prime with this team. The way Kobe's leading his basketball team is a thing of beauty. I feel like I did in the 80s with the Showtime team. They are just fun and exciting to watch. So many guys, with tons of talent, playing the right way.

[123LAKES]

There is a huge difference between how quick Kobe was in his rookie year. There is a big difference from 2004.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59o2YYh8AS0

loke at 4.30. That is MUCH quicker than Kobe now. Lets not even get into the decline in vertical(See 7:00-7:10 and 7:30).

Like the video we can slowly see it coming to an end :( . I wish Kobe's basketball game would never end. Just so many amazing moments and memories that I wish it could go on forever. Magic and Bird saved basketball, Jordan elevated basketball and Kobe made us appreciate the game.

[All Net]

No, he can't be a 40-50 point threat right now. He was a 30-40 point threat in his best season 2005-2006 playing on a lesser team.

Kobe is still a 30 point threat now, hell if he wanted to he could average 30 a game but that wouldn't be in the best interest of the team.

[KobeKlutch]

Like another poster said...Kobe is no longer in his athletic prime but it doesn't mean he's not in his prime as a basketball player.

For those that were too young to watch a younger Kobe, if you think Kobe is beasting now, back in the days...nobody can guard him.

That is why he is being compared to MJ.

They both were equals.

[tontoz]

I really haven't followed him much lately. What is up with his finger? Last summer i seem to remember people saying it might be permanently damaged.

[D.J.]

Kobe has been playing at an almost equal level for the last 10 years. His peak was around 2006-2007. His athletic prime was around 2002-2003. The last 10 years have pretty much been his prime and his work ethic is the reason. His athletic gifts have faded, but his ball IQ, shooting abilities, and ability to dominate games have not faded at all.

[Kellogs4toniee]

He's past his peak, but is he still in his prime?

25/7/5 in 32 minutes per game.


Yes. Word to the motha double YES.

[RUCKER]

This time around, I see you bandwagon hoppers singing a different tune.


1 bad game and you idiots proclaim "Kobe was never that good to begin with."

[LA_Showtime]

No, he's not. He's still a great player, but he can't close games the way he used to and he only has stretches of dominant play rather than dominating throughout the game.

And yeah, those two finger injuries have had a devastating effect on his ball handling. He's noticeably slipped in that area and fumbles the ball way more than he used to.

[Mrofir]

I already created a thread on this so check it out if you want.

So that you all can trust that I don't have an agenda per se, I'm just a basketball enthusiast:

Kobe is managing his natural physical decline as well as any player in the history of the game. Two others which come to mind as competitors would be Jordan and Steve Nash (he's gonna be 38) but really, as been mentioned, his last 10 years would all be considered prime elite years, and rightfully so.

I made my thread because I think all the previous calls for his decline were premature. I feel like he's about to get to the point where his game will take a major hit. We didn't get to see that process "live" for Jordan, because he retired right as it hit him, then came back and played those seasons for the Wizards where he was a completely different physical specimen than b4. I can see Kobe making similar adjustments.. but what I'm suggesting is that just like Jordan post-retirement wasn't nearly as effective (still excellent player), we're going to start seeing that type of Kobe. We're seeing glimpses of it now, and the bad games that used to have 10 great games in between now have 5 great games in between, and it will degrade to the point of a 50/50 proposition.

btw I'm thinking forest not trees. For those of you tree people, I really wouldn't be surprised if Kobe scores 30+ on 50% FG in game 3 to take the series away from NO once and for all. But against the Celtics or the Heat or Thunder? That's gonna be different.

[RUCKER]

I've heard from many people, SEVERAL reliable sources, and highly respected media outlets, that Kobe can completely take over ANY game whenever he wants.

They said he just flips this switch and in his mind, he starts playing ball in another dimension to where nobody can compete with him. They said he does something where he makes his opponents literally disappear and the whole court becomes his, and he's free to just hit anything and everything he wants.

Something about how all the screaming fans in the arena are drowned out, and he becomes one with the court. Where nothing bothers him, or effects him, and he can consistently hit just about any shot he wants, anywhere on the court, no matter how many hands are in his face.

Not even Jordan could do that. Only in the movie SpaceJam could Jordan conceive Kobe's abilities.

[Mrofir]

I've heard from many people, SEVERAL reliable sources, and highly respected media outlets, that Kobe can completely take over ANY game whenever he wants.

They said he just flips this switch and in his mind, he starts playing ball in another dimension to where nobody can compete with him. They said he does something where he makes his opponents literally disappear and the whole court becomes his, and he's free to just hit anything and everything he wants.

Something about how all the screaming fans in the arena are drowned out, and he becomes one with the court. Where nothing bothers him, or effects him, and he can consistently hit just about any shot he wants, anywhere on the court, no matter how many hands are in his face.

Not even Jordan could do that. Only in the movie SpaceJam could Jordan conceive Kobe's abilities.

lol if this is a joke its funny and if its not, its funny

[macpierce]

no he is not in his prime anymore................he cant get his shot off against anyone anymore..........hops are gone, bad fingers..........he can still be great but wade is now the best SG in the league

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

LMAO! The OP is an idiot.

[bizil]

I think u have athletic ability prime and production prime. They are two different things. MJ at 35 was the best player in the L. But he was past his athletic ability prime even though he was still very athletic. I think this is the stage Kobe is at. He is past athletic ability prime. But as a player he is still arguably the best in the game. So yes he is still in his prime. I feel u hit your prime, then u peak, and then u decline some. But that decline doesn't mean u are necessarily past your prime years. It just means u come back to the pack some. But the pack hasn't passed u by.

[LA_Showtime]

There's a strong possibility Kobe comes back next year and plays better than he has this year. While he might not be as dominant, once Kobe learns his athletic limitations he'll be a much improved player. He still tries to drive into the lane and finish over trees when it's obvious he can't do that on a regular basis, especially when the refs refuse to blow the whistle.

[crisoner]

I think we are seeing a decline physically right now a tad bit. But Kobe is a smart player and will figure out his limitations and how he can be most effective etc. And because of this he will be a deadly player for years to come.

[ICanDunk]

He's not as explosive as he used to be so he's stuck doing more and more jump shooting, and his shot hasn't seemed as good as it used to be since the finger problems.
He's still a great player, but he's passed his prime.

[Kurosawa0]

There's no way you can go back and watch Kobe from 2003-2007 and think he's that good now.

[crisoner]

There's no way you can go back and watch Kobe from 2003-2007 and think he's that good now.

Physically....but mentally he is a better player.

[ICanDunk]

Physically....but mentally he is a better player.
I don't think there was too much of a difference mentally. I think he just looks smart setting up Gasol and Bynum, while he looked like an idiot if he ever let Kwame Brown or Brian Cook touch the ball.

[talkingconch]

maybe athletic

but can't tell yet, wait until this postseason is over

[ATL_Bball_King]

As far as knowing the game...I think he knows so much more than his prime...I think he is prime at leading...He wasnt always the best leader...But now knows so much more in that area...

But not having his athleticsm and having bad knees has affected him alot...Because he can only go through stretches of dominance and not just do it the whole game...But i feel that kobe is smarter and more skilled now than he ever was...

Put kobe mental wise now back wit the athletic kobe in 2002 and you have somethin special...

[Kurosawa0]

Physically....but mentally he is a better player.

You're saying he could still get 62 in 3 quarters?

[wlee43]

well considering how he can't even drive, shoot jumpers and post up all day, and comes up short on his threes I don't see why anyone would think he is in his prime. Prime Kobe was a beast. Kobe now is good but not as good as he used to be

[LA_Showtime]

Who cares if he's mentally better nowadays. :oldlol: Put prime Kobe on the Lakers squad and it doesn't matter who comes together, the Lakers are winning another championship. Hell, they'd be impossible to defend.

[chris2010]

hes definitely past his prime. his prime ended 2 years ago

[AirJordan&Magic]

Hell no. Kobe, today, is nowhere as good as he was from 2006-08. Hell, I'd honestly take 2001-2003 Kobe over this Kobe in a heartbeat.

His ballhandling as of late has been mediocre and his midrange game is no longer as fluid as it use to be.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't even see that killer edge in him that much. No way in hell Kobe from 2001-2008 is letting Cp3, Wade, etc just make him look foolish without him emberassing them 10 times harder.

As LA_Showtime said, if we had that version of Kobe, the Lakers are winning championships with ease.

[Papaya Petee]

His numbers this year and his career numbers are nearly identical.

But no, not even close.

[AirJordan&Magic]

His numbers this year and his career numbers are nearly identical.

But no, not even close.

And this is when the favorite line, "Stats don't tell the whole story" comes into place.

[ILLsmak]

You Kobe fans must hate Kobe if you want to argue he's still in his prime...

-Smak

[Lucifer]

Obviously not. He's still playing at a high level though. As a long time NBA fan i laugh at Kobe haters who use athleticism/dunks/etc when comparing him to Lebron/Wade in the who's better arguments :roll:

Do you guys think Lebron/Wade will be top 5 in the league at 32?

[Eat Like A Bosh]

Athletic Prime? No.
And overall, I still think Kobe Bryant is past his prime right now.
But a Kobe past his prime is still better than 98% of the league.
As far as leadership, it's best it's ever been.
Kobe is a smart player, he has been working on his game over the offseason.
He's changing his game when he's not nearly as effective as a slasher anymore.
His game is based less on athleticism, and with great footwork, post game, foul calls(especially on younger defenders).
It's kinda like how Jordan adjusted.

Not in his prime anymore, but still an Elite Player.

[Lucifer]

Hell no. Kobe, today, is nowhere as good as he was from 2006-08. Hell, I'd honestly take 2001-2003 Kobe over this Kobe in a heartbeat.

His ballhandling as of late has been mediocre and his midrange game is no longer as fluid as it use to be.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't even see that killer edge in him that much. No way in hell Kobe from 2001-2008 is letting Cp3, Wade, etc just make him look foolish without him emberassing them 10 times harder.

As LA_Showtime said, if we had that version of Kobe, the Lakers are winning championships with ease.

:facepalm

You can make an argument for 02-03 Kobe because athletically he was unreal that year , but his leadership and IQ is nowhere near where it is now. Last night Kobe took 10 shots, to let other guys get involved. Don't buy the Hornets held Kobe to 11 points propaganda. Kobe toned his offense down to focus on D, and to get his guys going who slept through game 1. It worked too. A young Kobe wouldn't sacrifice his game like that for the better good.

I'd take 06-09 Kobe over this one but that's about it.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

Obviously not. He's still playing at a high level though. As a long time NBA fan i laugh at Kobe haters who use athleticism/dunks/etc when comparing him to Lebron/Wade in the who's better arguments :roll:

Do you guys think Lebron/Wade will be top 5 in the league at 32?
Well Wade's 29 now, but Wade's smart, and he's got some moves. I think he'll adjust.

[LA_Showtime]

Just imagine 02-03 Kobe or 04-05 Kobe or even 07-08 Kobe on this team... teams wouldn't stand a chance.

Kobe's still a great player in his own right, but he can't close games like he used to and he's more bark than bite anymore.

[Smoke117]

If this was before the rule change Kobe's stats would have fallen off a lot more than they have, but the softer rules extend careers.

[Lucifer]

Well Wade's 29 now, but Wade's smart, and he's got some moves. I think he'll adjust.

I'm not saying he'll drop off the face of the planet like an AI or T-mac, but I doubt Wade is top 5 at 32.

[MayCeltics]

Kobe is 4 years past his prime. Dwyane Wade runs circles around Kobe.

[LA_Showtime]

If this was before the rule change Kobe's stats would have fallen off a lot more than they have, but the softer rules extend careers.

Please. :oldlol:

[whoartthou]

Kobe might not be in his athletic prime... but he isnt an old man either.

iMO he is still in his prime

[DMAVS41]

The dude is still a top 5 player in the league. Prime or no prime....doesn't matter. Not only is he still an elite player, but when he's at his best, he might be the best player in the league.

This is getting absurd. His fans are just ruining one of the greatest ever at this point.

[AirJordan&Magic]

:facepalm

You can make an argument for 02-03 Kobe because athletically he was unreal that year , but his leadership and IQ is nowhere near where it is now. Last night Kobe took 10 shots, to let other guys get involved. Don't buy the Hornets held Kobe to 11 points propaganda. Kobe toned his offense down to focus on D, and to get his guys going who slept through game 1. It worked too. A young Kobe wouldn't sacrifice his game like that for the better good.

I'd take 06-09 Kobe over this one but that's about it.

And he still didn't even play well on the defensive end. Chris Paul was shaking him out of his nikes...

You do have a point that Kobe (particularly the 2002-03 season) was still a bit selfish, but Kobe that year was still a way better player than he is this season. As for 2001 and the 2002 version of Kobe...Yes, give me those versions of Kobe over this banged-up Kobe. Anyday.

Kobe in those two seasons was not only scoring well, but he was also facilitating and playing elite defense as well.

[LA_Showtime]

The dude is still a top 5 player in the league. Prime or no prime....doesn't matter. Not only is he still an elite player, but when he's at his best, he might be the best player in the league.

This is getting absurd. His fans are just ruining one of the greatest ever at this point.

He can't take over like he used to. He can't create for his teammates like he used to. He can't close like he used to. He can't play defense like he used to. Doesn't mean he isn't still a hell of a player, but if you don't acknowledge how much his game has changed then didn't watch him during his prime.

[DMAVS41]

He can't take over like he used to. He can't create for his teammates like he used to. He can't close like he used to. He can't play defense like he used to. Doesn't mean he isn't still a hell of a player, but if you don't acknowledge how much his game has changed then didn't watch him during his prime.

Of course. He's old and has played a ton of games just in the last 3 years....plus the olympics.

He's still playing at an elite level. And a slowed down version of Kobe might be exactly what this Lakers team needs to win.

[AirJordan&Magic]

Kobe might not be in his athletic prime... but he isnt an old man either.

iMO he is still in his prime

Exactly what gives you this idea that this guy is still in his prime???

Forget athleticism...

He went from one of the best ballhandlers in the league to mr.butterfingers in 1 season, he doesn't have as much lift on his jumpers as before which is why his midrange game isn't as smooth as before, and there are times where he looks lost on defense.

[kaiiu]

lol this 2011 version is a shell of 09 Kobe let alone Kobe in his prime:hammerhead:

He dont got his legs and his jumper not even the same. Everything he does now seems forced unlike back in the day when scoring was smooth and easy for him.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Exactly what gives you this idea that this guy is still in his prime???

Forget athleticism...

He went from one of the best ballhandlers in the league to mr.butterfingers in 1 season, he doesn't have as much lift on his jumpers as before which is why his midrange game isn't as smooth as before, and there are times where he looks lost on defense.

I agree as far as his handles and jumper. But on defense I think it's more of an effort issue with Kobe. Perhaps he is saving himself and/or doesn't want to risk injury? idk. He knows how to play great D as we've seen him do it for many years, but I think he just chooses to slack on it a lot more now. Because the worst part of his D this year has been his closeouts, which is really just a matter of effort

[Colby Brian]

Kobe is 4 years past his prime. Dwyane Wade runs circles around Kobe.

thats why wade shot 9/24 vs kobe this year......

[Mrofir]

thats why wade shot 9/24 vs kobe this year......


Fantastic argument. Apply for a job at ESPN immediately.

[rodman91]

He wont be better and he is slightly declining..so he is out of his prime. However, he is just 32, which was pretty good age for many stars so he is still good enough to be one of the best. He plays for same team,similar system,he is an icon for Lakers,he has good work ethics, coaching staff knows what he can do and how many minutes he can do,they know how to use him well.. When all those things comes together star players has better longevity.

If there won't be major injuries, he can play this game at high level.. until 35-36 years old.

Jordan & Malone shitting everyone at 35 years old and arguably they were best players in the league .Kobe started declining earlier than them so i say he will be still top 6 to 10 player at 35 years old.

He may not be in prime anymore but it doesn't mean he can't play at great level.Jordan wasn't in prime in his second threepeat.Rodman was out of his prime in Bulls.Malone was out of his prime in finals.

Olajuwon was 32 years old when he kicked young Shaq's ass in finals...

Even when best players start declining they still remain at least one of bests in league.

[whoartthou]

Exactly what gives you this idea that this guy is still in his prime???

Forget athleticism...

He went from one of the best ballhandlers in the league to mr.butterfingers in 1 season, he doesn't have as much lift on his jumpers as before which is why his midrange game isn't as smooth as before, and there are times where he looks lost on defense.

He has always looked lost on defense, post 2004.
Yes but he still is a decent ballhandler.... smh at losing ball handling skills LOL

Yea he doesn't have much lift on his jumpers i agree.... but he still is shooting a similar percent as his career average..

He is close to in his prime (minus the athletic ability) :confusedshrug:

[ImmortalD24]

Re: Is Kobe Bryant still in his Prime?


No.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

Nope, not in his prime anymore, but still an elite players.
Great players just don't get washed up easily after their prime.

[magmo68]

manu's prime>kobe's prime
http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee480/magmo68/Kobefingf.gif

[LA_Showtime]

He wont be better and he is slightly declining..so he is out of his prime. However, he is just 32, which was pretty good age for many stars so he is still good enough to be one of the best. He plays for same team,similar system,he is an icon for Lakers,he has good work ethics, coaching staff knows what he can do and how many minutes he can do,they know how to use him well.. When all those things comes together star players has better longevity.

If there won't be major injuries, he can play this game at high level.. until 35-36 years old.

Jordan & Malone shitting everyone at 35 years old and arguably they were best players in the league .Kobe started declining earlier than them so i say he will be still top 6 to 10 player at 35 years old.

He may not be in prime anymore but it doesn't mean he can't play at great level.Jordan wasn't in prime in his second threepeat.Rodman was out of his prime in Bulls.Malone was out of his prime in finals.

Olajuwon was 32 years old when he kicked young Shaq's ass in finals...

Even when best players start declining they still remain at least one of bests in league.

That's assuming you're projecting Kobe's next few seasons based on his age and not his mileage. I think this might be the last year where Kobe's regarded as an elite player. He'll still be an all-star caliber guy and one of the best closers in the league, but he's not as explosive anymore and lengthy players give him a lot of trouble. The only way Kobe can fight off age is by adjusting him game, becoming more of a distributor, and picking his spots. He hasn't shown the ability to do that on a consistent basis; however, you could argue if he does master that skill he'll be more effective than he has been this season.

[LA_Showtime]

He has always looked lost on defense, post 2004.
Yes but he still is a decent ballhandler.... smh at losing ball handling skills LOL

Yea he doesn't have much lift on his jumpers i agree.... but he still is shooting a similar percent as his career average..

He is close to in his prime (minus the athletic ability) :confusedshrug:

No, his ball handling has noticeably deteriorated. He can't even grip the ball; why else would he have those ridiculous turnovers where it just pops out of his hands?

Numbers don't tell half the story.

[amfirst]

Yes, Kobe is declining a lot has to do with mileage and his injuries.

[pauk]

u ppl are nuts.... he is still in his prime.... but you can see he is getting out of his prime.... he is on the start of decline process of his prime...... but yes he is still in his prime.... obviously not as athletic as he was as a 19 year old but anyways....

[Calabis]

What u'r observing is a strong fundamentally sound player, his athleticism is slipping away, but his fundamentals are still strong, which is why he still is at the top tier of the league.....longevity sir. I believe this is the biggest issue in today's game, not many guys with strong fundamentals and when their athleticism starts slipping they won't last as long as Kobe. Kobe last of a dying breed imo.