Better pure score Melo or Kobe???

[Younggrease]

How can ESPN even ask this question. Is it a joke.... Im not tryin to sound like a groupie but Melo iso's all game leaks out on defense and still is only averaging 30 ppg.

ESPN hating on Kobe again. He comes off a season where he looked like one of the best scorers of all time. But now I guess Melo is better right???

[Zombles]

Melo's a more efficient scorer this year than Kobe's ever been, that's for damn sure.

But in terms of volume obviously Kobe's 35ppg season was the greatest thing anyone had seen since Jordan.

[Younggrease]

Melo is more efficent in the regular season, but we know what happens in the playoffs.....

Also players dont get up for Melo like they do for Kobe until the post- season.

[Don Cheto]

Carmelo Anthony

[geeWiz15]

obviously Kobe. dumb question, like you said.

[sic]

Carmelo

[Y2Gezee]

Melo. Kobe has the purer jumpshot. Aside from that Melo has compareable footwork (these 2 are the best perimeter players in the league in that dept). Melo has the superior post game, and both are compareable when it comes to driving. Kobe also is superior to getting the refs to call touch fouls, but we won't count that.

Its atleast equal, Melo's ability to dominate in the post and be more efficient is key though.

[MaxFly]

I remember when I used to like ESPN... but lately, they've just been off on so many things...

[MaxFly]

Melo. Kobe has the purer jumpshot. Aside from that Melo has compareable footwork (these 2 are the best perimeter players in the league in that dept). Melo has the superior post game, and both are compareable when it comes to driving. Kobe also is superior to getting the refs to call touch fouls, but we won't count that.

Are you a Nuggets fan?

[BradMiller52]

Actually it's an interesting question, Melo is better in the post and he's way more efficient but Kobe is the guy who averaged 35 PPG. He's got more variety in his game than Melo.

[JtotheIzzo]

Anyone one who says Melo is dead wrong.

If Kobe played on USA this summer it would have been his team and they would have won gold (and I am a Kobe hater for the record).

This conversation wouldn't happen if Melo didn't do well this summer.

[Y2Gezee]

Are you a Nuggets fan?

More of a Melo fan, but yeah.

But, its not like its not a good question. Comeon, first of all Kobe is a seasoned vet in his prime, Melo is only 22. Both have the sweet jumper, good posts games (though melo's is much better), great off the drive, footwork. Both 2 elite scorers. Melo more efficient.

Kobe has better handles and quicker, Melo much stronger and is taller. With their versatility just about equal, I think its a fair question. I don't mind saying Kobe's better, but its a worthwhile question. Remember, this is not a question of who's better overall, just more of a pure scorer

[JSub]

How can ESPN even ask this question. Is it a joke.... Im not tryin to sound like a groupie but Melo iso's all game leaks out on defense and still is only averaging 30 ppg.

ESPN hating on Kobe again. He comes off a season where he looked like one of the best scorers of all time. But now I guess Melo is better right???

ESPN hates on Yao Ming much more than Kobe, so you shouldnt be complaining.

[hotsizzle]

ESPN hates on Yao Ming much more than Kobe, so you shouldnt be complaining.

yea they rly do. they gave him credit today but still questioned if he can keep it up.

[JSub]

yea they rly do. they gave him credit today but still questioned if he can keep it up.

Basically, Yao's gonna have to average 27/10 for the next 5 seasons and win a few rings before trash like Greg Anthony is going to pay his dues.

[hotsizzle]

Basically, Yao's gonna have to average 27/10 for the next 5 seasons and win a few rings before trash like Greg Anthony is going to pay his dues.

you dont think he could keep improving? its already pretty amazing that he keep improving like this every yr but personally i dont think 30 PPG is outta the question sometime his career...what is that? like 3 or 4 more shot attempts

[StarJordan]

But in terms of volume obviously Kobe's 35ppg season was the greatest thing anyone had seen since Jordan.

In the regular season. He fizzled out by the playoffs.

[Zombles]

In the regular season. He fizzled out by the playoffs.

He played team ball in the playoffs, and excluding that horrible, incompetent/selfish/agenda-ridden game 7, it was the best stretch of games he played all season.

The Lakers were a mediocre team and the Suns should have steam-rolled them. But Bryant listened to Phil and finally played ball the right way, and God damn he is such a good player when he does that. Probably should have resulted in an upset but Tim Thomas had the series of his career.

Don't care for Bryant but give credit where credit is due.

[West-Side]

Carmelo is BETTER then Kobe in terms of scoring? :confused: :confused: :wtf:
Man, no comment...a stretch of like 15 games where Kobe's been hurt, and Carmelo is all the suddent a better scorer then a man who dropped 81 points, 62 points and averaged 35 a game.

Yeahh, OK!

[Knoe Itawl]

Kobe's a volume chucker which is why his scoring outburts don't impress me as much as they do some people.

If he could score like that and shoot 50+% then I'd be impressed. As it stands, no matter how I try I just can't see a couple of other players not averaging 35ppg with the new rules, if they were allowed to shoot 44% or so to do it.

Kobe will get hot and put up incredible numbers one game, then go 7-24 the next couple.

Efficiency and consistancy should count for SOMETHING.

[DreamRockets]

melo is averaging 30 ppg while shooting @ 49%, kobe fans have no argument here, kobe might have the edge in 3-point shooting but that doesnt mean anything if at the end of the day your overall % is low.

[Knoe Itawl]

melo is averaging 30 ppg while shooting @ 49%, kobe fans have no argument here, kobe might have the edge in 3-point shooting but that doesnt mean anything if at the end of the day your overall % is low.

Kobe fans don't care about things like fg%, shot selection, the greenlight to shoot whenever, etc.

All they care about is "Oooh Kobe scored 40!"

[DreamRockets]

thats exactly why jordan > kobe, jordan's shot selection in the championship run was great, even at age 35 or so he was scoring 29 points while shooting 47%, kobe's shot selection is good one game and horrible the next one, and god forbid he has to face a great defender like bowen or artest, thats an authomatic 10/28 night for kobe.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Don't forget the possible effect of this latest knee surgery. Bryant has yet to look like the explosive athlete he was last season.

[DreamRockets]

im not talking about this season, he has looked great this season to me, he isnt taking a ridiculous amount of shots and he is passing way more, when i talk about his bad shot selection im refering to last season, the only season i have seen him consistently scoring and shooting high % was 03 when he averaged 30 pts on 47% shooting along with 6 assists, that was imo his best season, not 06.

[Knoe Itawl]

thats exactly why jordan > kobe, jordan's shot selection in the championship run was great, even at age 35 or so he was scoring 29 points while shooting 47%, kobe's shot selection is good one game and horrible the next one, and god forbid he has to face a great defender like bowen or artest, thats an authomatic 10/28 night for kobe.

Exactly. Bryant fans ignore how often he's inconsistant because of some admittedly great scoring outbursts.

But the game is about more than a few amazing scoring outbursts. It's an OVERALL thing.

For example, Jordan's 35ppg year he shot FIFTY THREE PERCENT. Just unreal.

Bryant does something like that, and I'll be truly impressed.

[DreamRockets]

he matches the scoring of jordan's best years and i'll become a kobe fan, i know it wont happen though.

[Timmy D for MVP]

As of right now it's Carmelo. Whether or not that'll stay is a question that we'll figure out later.

He cannot fall in love with hi sjump shot like others have. He's gotta stick to his strengths.

[DreamRockets]

carmello has great post game, that puts him a step above kobe.

just look at wade's and carmello's % then look at kobe's or ray allen's.

post scoring > jump shot.

[24/7]

If Kobe played on USA this summer it would have been his team and they would have won gold (and I am a Kobe hater for the record).


Well I am a Laker fan and I have to tip my hat to Melo, he was a flat out stud most of the time for team USA. Team USA might have won with Kobe AND Melo but you take Melo off that team and it hurts it. If anyone needs to be dropped it needs to be Wade, his game sucked balls when it counted, he offers nothing of value to team USA. Hell even throw off Lebron, anyone but Melo.

[Timmy D for MVP]

Anyone one who says Melo is dead wrong.

If Kobe played on USA this summer it would have been his team and they would have won gold (and I am a Kobe hater for the record).

This conversation wouldn't happen if Melo didn't do well this summer.

I doubt that because Grease not only picked and rolled till the sun went down. But they played a zone and NBA players (especially young ones) have a problem with that.

[Knoe Itawl]

I doubt that because Grease .

They were playing a musical about the 50s? :confusedshrug:

[Knoe Itawl]

carmello has great post game, that puts him a step above kobe.

just look at wade's and carmello's % then look at kobe's or ray allen's.

post scoring > jump shot.

Which is also why Duncan > KG, but you some people just can't look at things analytically.

[Timmy D for MVP]

They were playing a musical about the 50s? :confusedshrug:

LOL

Oops my bad. :hammerhead:

[ronron15]

kobe handsdown. hes hurt rite now. comon ppl, its kobe... melo is still establishing himself... its just like a month into the season, everyone assumed melo will keep this up for the whole year,, while kobes been doin it for years.... melos just doin this for a month...

kobe definetly has better three point shootin, better range
both have a good jab step
both have good postup game
both good in cluth situation, but i say kobe better
kobe has a better fadaway jumper
kobe posterize more ppl than melo does
kobe's more atheltic, but hes healin now
n melo's from this era whn its easier to scoreee!!! handcheck rule!!!!! This dam game is being changed so much and is becoming so much of a businesssss!!! Its killing the game itself!!!!

[Knoe Itawl]

kobe handsdown. hes hurt rite now. comon ppl, its kobe... melo is still establishing himself... its just like a month into the season, everyone assumed melo will keep this up for the whole year,, while kobes been doin it for years.... melos just doin this for a month...

kobe definetly has better three point shootin, better range
both have a good jab step
both have good postup game
both good in cluth situation, but i say kobe better
kobe has a better fadaway jumper
kobe posterize more ppl than melo does
kobe's more atheltic, but hes healin now
n melo's from this era whn its easier to scoreee!!! handcheck rule!!!!! This dam game is being changed so much and is becoming so much of a businesssss!!! Its killing the game itself!!!!

I weep for our educational system.

[DreamRockets]

kobe isnt better in the clutch, thats nothing but a myth, the guy shoots like 20% in win or die situations, their post games arent equal, not even close, i forgot the last time i saw kobe posting up someone else and i do watch a lot of lakers games with league pass.

[Knoe Itawl]

kobe isnt better in the clutch, thats nothing but a myth, the guy shoots like 20% in win or die situations, their post games arent equal, not even close, i forgot the last time i saw kobe posting up someone else and i do watch a lot of lakers games with league pass.

That's the funniest thing. I've had League Pass for the past three years and during that time I'd say I've seen about 75% of Laker games (and I check scores/highligts every night when I don't see them) and Bryant's clutch rep is largely undeserved. I'm not going to say he hasn't made some clutch shots..........even incredible ones but it's like those couple of games have somehow replaced his OVERALL performance.

That's what Bryant fans do......they take a couple of great performances and pretend that they happen the MAJORITY of the time, which is false.

Bryant is actually NOT a great clutch performer when you take into account EVERYTHING. He doesn't pass in the clutch, and he takes ridiculous "Look at me I'm the hero" shots that miss much more often than they're made.

But when people have stars in their eyes, you can't tell them anything.

[Brunch@Five]

Kobe haters stroking each others d!ck. :violin:

[DreamRockets]

stating the true is more like it, kobe is a 20% shooter in win or lose situations, an article in 82.com after the 04 finals debacle said so, melo, ray allen, dirk, mcgrady, wade all were more efficient in the clutch and my guess is the likes of billups, bibby, ginobili, brent barry, bell are all more prolific too.

[GOBB]

No one mentions how Melo gets easy buckets at the other end from not crashing the boards?
No one mentions how Melo range doesnt extend much beyond the arc?

More efficient? If you say so but Melo's offensive game isnt similar to Kobe who attacks and scores from all over.

Kobe offense is better than Melo. No argument.

[saKf]

Bryant's definitely a better scorer than Anthony.

[Da KO King]

I have to go with Kobe just because picking against a guy who scored 62 in three quarters and 81 a few weeks later makes my head hurt.

However, I have to say it's not nearly as one sided as some seem to believe. Offensively the only advantage Kobe has is perimeter shooting.

[dejordan]

That's the funniest thing. I've had League Pass for the past three years and during that time I'd say I've seen about 75% of Laker games (and I check scores/highligts every night when I don't see them) and Bryant's clutch rep is largely undeserved. I'm not going to say he hasn't made some clutch shots..........even incredible ones but it's like those couple of games have somehow replaced his OVERALL performance.

That's what Bryant fans do......they take a couple of great performances and pretend that they happen the MAJORITY of the time, which is false.

Bryant is actually NOT a great clutch performer when you take into account EVERYTHING. He doesn't pass in the clutch, and he takes ridiculous "Look at me I'm the hero" shots that miss much more often than they're made.

But when people have stars in their eyes, you can't tell them anything.

i think kobe built his clutch-as-hell rep while shaq was around and he was really only asked to carry the team for the fourth quarter when o'neal's free throw shooting made him a liability. i remember kobe being the scariest player in the game in clutch situations back when they were winning rings. he's definitely trailed off some since shaq left and the whole burden got dumped on him. maybe he's tired. maybe he has trouble switching it into another gear in the last few minutes when he hasn't been asked to play that way the first 45. i don't know the cause, but he's definitely not as frightening with the ball in hand at the end of the game as he was back then. those big shots he hit against phoenix in the playoff last year were amazing though.

in any case i don't think melo's the scorer that kobe was last year. he's friggin' great though. it's like mark aguirre was reincarnated, grew 3 inches, and became athletic.

[saKf]

Offensively the only advantage Kobe has is perimeter shooting.
I'd call Bryant a better mid-range shooter, too.

[Da KO King]

I'd call Bryant a better mid-range shooter, too.Po-tay-toe Po-tah-toe :confusedshrug: :D

Wait, you mean straight shooting and not in-between game right?

[saKf]

I mean that Bryant is much better at getting points from the mid-range to long-range areas of the floor than Anthony. Anthony's better close to the basket, though.

[glidedrxlr22]

Right now Carmelo. Shoot.......even Redd. He schooled Kobe's a$$ up the other night.

[hotsizzle]

I cant believe what Im hearing. I love Melo but come on ppl. This is Kobe freaking Bryant. He probably has the most fundamentally offensive game in the L for a guard. There is nothing he cant do. Post up, threes, mid range, fadeaways..and hes been doing it for 8 yrs now in the reg season, in the post season, in the finals..in double teams, triple teams..you name it. hes an offensive arsenal.

[Da KO King]

I mean that Bryant is much better at getting points from the mid-range to long-range areas of the floor than Anthony. Anthony's better close to the basket, though.
I agree that Kobe is a better shooter (perimeter meaning mid-range and out) but I think Melo's in-between game is better.

[Y2Gezee]

I don't see why people are using Melo's tendancy (no, being forced to leak) being a reason as to why he's not as good a scorer as Kobe. Kobe leaks a lot. A lot of SG's leak, its only a big deal for Melo because he's a SF not getting as many boards as some would say he should due to leaking out. He gets maybe 2 baskets max a game by leaking out, its mainly for him to get early post position, and the easy baskets are rare.

Yeah, Kobe's a better 3pt shooter, but he's a better 3pt shooter than Malone too, its about results, not how you do it. Hell he's a better 3pt shooter than Jordan probably, Jordan was a driver/postup/midrange guy. Melo's efficiency is the main reason I believe he's atleast on the same level as Kobe as a scorer

[Knoe Itawl]

I'm going to be fair here. I think Kobe has amazing skills. He is obviously a flat out unreal scorer AT TIMES.

He has also been scoring phenomenally for YEARS and I hate to put a player in his 4th season above a player that's been doing it for years, playoffs and regular season.

My issue is that in my opinion Kobe is NOT as great a scorer as many of his fans THINK he is. The main reason is consistancy and efficiency.

81 point games and 62 point games are fantastic, but it's an 82 game season (plus playoffs) and I'm not going to ignore everything else because of those games. Only a groupie would.

[GOBB]

I don't see why people are using Melo's tendancy (no, being forced to leak) being a reason as to why he's not as good a scorer as Kobe. Kobe leaks a lot. A lot of SG's leak, its only a big deal for Melo because he's a SF not getting as many boards as some would say he should due to leaking out. He gets maybe 2 baskets max a game by leaking out, its mainly for him to get early post position, and the easy baskets are rare.

Yeah, Kobe's a better 3pt shooter, but he's a better 3pt shooter than Malone too, its about results, not how you do it. Hell he's a better 3pt shooter than Jordan probably, Jordan was a driver/postup/midrange guy. Melo's efficiency is the main reason I believe he's atleast on the same level as Kobe as a scorer

Melo is on the same level as Pierce offensively...not Kobe.

[goldgrill4me]

overall as an offensive player it is very close.

3pt. shooting- kobe but its not like this is a strength....only 33% for his career.

mid range- kobe has one of the best midrange jumpers in the league.

penetrating to the basket- equal both can get to the basket and draw fouls.

inside scoring- melo is stronger and taller inside leads to more easy buckets.

post up- melo, kobe rarely posts anymore and his carbon copied mj fadaway isnt as good as the original.

passing- melo, not only a more willing passer but like tmac and bron can see over the top of the defense for easy baskets down low.

off reb- melo, hes averaging 3 a game so far this season. this has never been a strong point for bean.

clutch- kobe is overated in this area by his sea of groupies. melo i think brings more to the table at the end of the game as he has made some game winners and can also get a key offensive rebound or make a great pass. ill say this is a toss up bc melo doesnt have a big enough body of work to judge.

[GOBB]

I think its funny as hell you call it close when your entire post favors Melo. Why not say Melo is a better scorer and save us the BS? Geeze.

[Knoe Itawl]

I think its funny as hell you call it close when your entire post favors Melo. Why not say Melo is a better scorer and save us the BS? Geeze.

Uh, the guy gave coherrent reasons why he disagrees. Don't get your panties in a bunch.

Not like he came in and said "Melo, cause I said so".

[GOBB]

Uh, the guy gave coherrent reasons why he disagrees. Don't get your panties in a bunch.

Not like he came in and said "Melo, cause I said so".

Only thing that favors Kobe is midrange game.

[Y2Gezee]

Exactly, my post favors reasons for Melo because guys like you keep saying its not close. I personally do believe they are about equal, I think they are the 2 most versatile scorers in the league. Its not Bullsh*t, its my argument as to why your argument is useless.

If it makes you feel better I think Kobe is a better shooter, better handles, better body control.

[bullsfan831]

Melo is makes smarter shots but in the playoffs Kobe is just a better player skill wise

[GOBB]

Exactly, my post favors reasons for Melo because guys like you keep saying its not close. I personally do believe they are about equal, I think they are the 2 most versatile scorers in the league. Its not Bullsh*t, its my argument as to why your argument is useless.

Wasnt no one talkin to u...biased prick.

If this topic was made in the offseason...these replies arent posted.

[Y2Gezee]

If this topic was made in the offseason most of you would still be hating on Melo, and well... still ignorant.

[GOBB]

If this topic was made in the offseason most of you would still be hating on Melo, and well... still ignorant.

Hating Melo cause no one thinks he is on Kobe's level offensively?

:roll:

[Y2Gezee]

Nope, they just hated on him period. Actually you weren't one of those people. But to say right now, Melo isn't even on Kobe's level of last year (I won't count the injured kobe of this year) is just wrong. Not better, but on teh same level.

[Jailblazers7]

Nope, they just hated on him period. Actually you weren't one of those people. But to say right now, Melo isn't even on Kobe's level of last year (I won't count the injured kobe of this year) is just wrong. Not better, but on teh same level.

81 point game, 62 in 3 quarters, and 35 a game. Hate to tell you but Melo is not on that level.

[Knoe Itawl]

81 point game, 62 in 3 quarters, and 35 a game. Hate to tell you but Melo is not on that level.

I'm not saying Melo is, but you're not considering OVERALL. Whether or not he's as good a scorer as Kobe, I DO think Melo could average 35ppg in today's NBA if he had the mentality and same greenlight to shoot as Bryant did last year. I think a few other players could (given the fact that Kobe shot 44% last year).

Again, if he shot 50% or over, then I'd be much more impressed.

[Jailblazers7]

I'm not saying Melo is, but you're not considering OVERALL. Whether or not he's as good a scorer as Kobe, I DO think Melo could average 35ppg in today's NBA if he had the mentality and same greenlight to shoot as Bryant did last year. I think a few other players could (given the fact that Kobe shot 44% last year).

Again, if he shot 50% or over, then I'd be much more impressed.

Melo should have the same green light look at his team

[MaxFly]

I think its funny as hell you call it close when your entire post favors Melo. Why not say Melo is a better scorer and save us the BS? Geeze.

It seems that there is a great deal of disingenuousness in the post... I can see why you would call some of it BS.


inside scoring- melo is stronger and taller inside leads to more easy buckets.

passing- melo, not only a more willing passer but like tmac and bron can see over the top of the defense for easy baskets down low.

off reb- melo, hes averaging 3 a game so far this season. this has never been a strong point for bean.

These three things stand out somewhat... Passing... Melo is averaging 4.3 assists with 4.5 turnovers. Bryant is averaging 5.2 assits with 3.5 turnovers. That's a 1.0 ast/to ratio compared to a 1.5 ast/to ratio. Bryant seems to be the more willing passer as well as more efficient in handling the ball.

Melo's also only averaging 2 offensive rebounds a game this season. In all, he's averaging 5.2 rebounds while Bryant is averaging 4.8 rebounds, and that's with Bryant being the shorter weaker player of the two and generally on the wing while Melo is often closer to the basket as a SF.

[Y2Gezee]

But he doesn't Jailblazers. And I don't think he wants to have too many 30 shot games. But there was a point last year I think where Kobe was avging 30shots a game. He finished taking 27shots and 10fts.

[goldgrill4me]

It seems that there is a great deal of disingenuousness in the post... I can see why you would call some of it BS.



These three things stand out somewhat... Passing... Melo is averaging 4.3 assists with 4.5 turnovers. Bryant is averaging 5.2 assits with 3.5 turnovers. That's a 1.0 ast/to ratio compared to a 1.5 ast/to ratio. Bryant seems to be the more willing passer as well as more efficient in handling the ball.

Melo's also only averaging 2 offensive rebounds a game this season. In all, he's averaging 5.2 rebounds while Bryant is averaging 4.8 rebounds, and that's with Bryant being the shorter weaker player of the two and generally on the wing while Melo is often closer to the basket as a SF.

i still think melo gets the edge in these two areas. the off. rebounding bc the 2.1 he averages now is still like 33% higher than kobe.

the tos have been a problem for melo but its more bc of lack of ballhandling skills than passing ability. i think kobe averaged a similar amount for over a half a season a year or two ago. two or three one turnover games in a row and that number drops signifigantly. the lack of a natural pg and better shooters can boost your assist numbers without actually being a good passer.

one area i forgot to include is ballhandling and you can give that edge to bryant.

[DreamRockets]

one area i forgot to include is ballhandling and you can give that edge to bryant.

deffinitelly, i mean is impossible to not give the edge in ballhandling to a guy who has the ball glued in his hands 24/7

[Da KO King]

They are pretty much equals in terms of ball handling and passing. The turnover difference is the amount of offensive fouls called on Melo. Kobe has the advantage there due to balance/body control.

Kobe is one of the hardest guys to get a charge on cause he jumps around guys very well.

I'm not going to bother with the issue on passing cause the topic is about scoring points.

[goldgrill4me]

I'm not going to bother with the issue on passing cause the topic is about scoring points.

well if you just go by scoring its pretty simple.
if you want a guy who can breakout for 50+ three or four times a season you would take bryant. bryant will also give you many poor shooting performances in between.

if you want a guy who can consistently give you 30-35 on 50% shooting you take melo. there wont be any 9-33 games but he probably wont ever top 55+.

[MaxFly]

i still think melo gets the edge in these two areas. the off. rebounding bc the 2.1 he averages now is still like 33% higher than kobe.


I'm not sure how you can give the edge to Melo in the area of passing when he has a higher user rate than Bryant, shoots the ball more, and is tallying fewer assists. It seems that Bryant, at least so far this season, has been the more willing passer. Also, the offensive rebounds Melo gets can be partly attributed to his proximity to the basket. Bryant generally plays beyond the three point line while Melo plays closer to the basket. This doesn't mean that Melo is a necessarily a better offensive rebounder than Bryant. It just means that he has a better chance to get offensive rebounds. Incidentally, in the interest of fairness, Bryant only averages 0.8 offensive rebounds a game. Melo averages over twice as many.

[Younggrease]

I'll be sure to bump this thread either at the end of the season or when Melo gets shut down again in the playoffs.

[DreamRockets]

like kobe wasnt, you have 2 choices, he either got shut down badly or he quit, pick your poison :pimp:

[Younggrease]

well if you just go by scoring its pretty simple.
if you want a guy who can breakout for 50+ three or four times a season you would take bryant. bryant will also give you many poor shooting performances in between.

if you want a guy who can consistently give you 30-35 on 50% shooting you take melo. there wont be any 9-33 games but he probably wont ever top 55+.

Melol has done 30 ppg on 50% for like 12-15 games, lets see him even do it for half a year before you say he is better than one of the greatest scorers the league has ever seen.

[DreamRockets]

who says he is one of the best ever ? but he is obviously more prolific at it than kobe even though not as versatile, carmello never shoots 45% or below that.

[Younggrease]

Even though Kobe shoots a lower percentage, the threat of his 3 pointer distorts the oppents defense more than Melo's game. Kobe scoring from so many places on the floor puts immense pressure on the defense making guys look better than they are.

Who doesnt say Kobe is one of the best scorers ever, you name me 10 guys that are better scorers than Kobe??? If not than case closed.

[goldgrill4me]

Melol has done 30 ppg on 50% for like 12-15 games, lets see him even do it for half a year before you say he is better than one of the greatest scorers the league has ever seen.

i never said he was better just that they are different types of scorers. melo hasnt proven hes a 30 pt/g scorer for a whole season yet but he did average 27 last year. he looks like hes improved this year so i doubt he averages below 29-30 ppg.

[GOBB]

I'm not saying Melo is, but you're not considering OVERALL. Whether or not he's as good a scorer as Kobe, I DO think Melo could average 35ppg in today's NBA if he had the mentality and same greenlight to shoot as Bryant did last year. I think a few other players could (given the fact that Kobe shot 44% last year).

Again, if he shot 50% or over, then I'd be much more impressed.

Melo doesnt have the greenlight? :confusedshrug:

[goldgrill4me]

kobe has proven to be one of the best scorers of all time if you are talking about the amount of pts/g. kobe has not proven to be one of the most efficient scorers of all time. imo melo has a chance (if he can cut his tos down) to be one of the more efficient high scorers of the new era.

[DreamRockets]

Even though Kobe shoots a lower percentage, the threat of his 3 pointer distorts the oppents defense more than Melo's game. Kobe scoring from so many places on the floor puts immense pressure on the defense making guys look better than they are.

Who doesnt say Kobe is one of the best scorers ever, you name me 10 guys that are better scorers than Kobe??? If not than case closed.

michael jordan, wilt chamberlain, jerry west, elgin baylor, shaquille o'neal, allen iverson, dominique wilkins, george gervin, oscar robertson, karl malone, kareem abdul jabbar, etc. and thats not mentioning the likes of bob mcadoo, patrick ewing, david robinson, moses malone and hakeem olajuwon who didnt average as many points but were much more efficient.

and i never said kobe wasnt top 10 scorer of all time in my previous post ( i did now) what i said is that no one said carmello was one of the best scorers of alltime (as you suggested) but more prolific than kobe.

[gts]

Carmelo PER 22.0
Kobe Bryant PER 28.0

Now who said carmelo is more Efficient kobe hasn't seen a rating of less than 23 in 4 years....

[DreamRockets]

and the point of that PER crap is ? carmello averages more points and shoots better, that should be the end of the discussion.

[GOBB]

Explain how Elgin Baylor was more efficient.

[gts]

and the point of that PER crap is ? carmello averages more points and shoots better, that should be the end of the discussion.

The PER sums up all a player's positive accomplishments, subtracts the negative accomplishments, and returns a rating of a player's performance...

that's the point Carmelo does not shoot better just because he shoots more and the question was not who is the best shooter or who shot the most, but who was the purest scorer

[DreamRockets]

carmello isnt better because he shoots more, carmello is better because he shoot a higher %.

[DreamRockets]

Explain how Elgin Baylor was more efficient.

i never said he was, i only said he was a better scorer than kobe bryant, explain to me why isnt he.

[hotsizzle]

i never said he was, i only said he was a better scorer than kobe bryant, explain to me why isnt he.

but i thought part of being a better scorer is being more efficient:confusedshrug:

[GOBB]

i never said he was, i only said he was a better scorer than kobe bryant, explain to me why isnt he.

Better scorer yet wasnt as efficient as Kobe right? Seems people knockin Kobe's FG% but i see Elgins career FG% and it doesnt scream greatness. He's putting up AI numbers. :confusedshrug:

People are throwing out how more efficient Melo is than Kobe to support thier argument. I'm throwing out efficiency in regards to Elgin yet he is a better scorer then Kobe. Funny how that works.

[DreamRockets]

i consider AI a better scorer than kobe as well, if kobe hadnt played with shaq all those years his fg% would be way worst.

and to compare baylor and kobe.

kobe is a 23.9 ppg 45% career scorer.

baylor was a 27.6 ppg 43% career scorer, a whole 3.7 extra points and only a 2% drop in efficiency, baylor has the edge.

[gts]

Elgin baylor had a best PER of 28.2 in 1961 with a career rating of 22.7

he averaged 27 points per game and a great 13.5 rebounds per game...

[gts]

i think some people mistake FG% as a form of efficiency, if that were the case then we'd being arguin shaq is a better pure shooter then carmelo or kobe becaes he has a career FG% of .580... but he's not a shooter at all, all his shots come from within 6 feet of the basket...he has a high FG% but his efficiency rating for last year was only 24.4....

[DreamRockets]

shaq's efficiency rating went down because he only averaged 20 ppg, and yes, even with his offensive game limited to within 6 feet of the basket i'd still think he is a better scorer than kobe bryant, same for MJ who had a much better post game than kobe hence him having a better fg%, those kind of players change entire defensive schemes and make coaches cry, kobe's jump shooting offensive game is easier to control.

[gts]

shaq's efficiency rating went down because he only averaged 20 ppg, and yes, even with his offensive game limited to within 6 feet of the basket i'd still think he is a better scorer than kobe bryant, same for MJ who had a much better post game than kobe hence him having a better fg%, those kind of players change entire defensive schemes and make coaches cry, kobe's jump shooting offensive game is easier to control.
actually shaqs efficiency rating went up last year higher than it had been in 4 years.... his effective percentage was the second highest it ever had been in his career...

[DreamRockets]

he only averaged 20 points, any coach would gladly take the seasons when he averaged 27-29 points on 58% over a 20 ppg season regardless of a 2% increase.

[hotsizzle]

So you guys are telling me that Carmello can have 27 40 Pt games while facing defense geared to stop him. His team won alot more games than they lost btw when he did so. Kobe's 35PPG isnt a fluke; stop discrediting him..."If kobe hadnt played with Shaq, his FG would be worst"...thats BS, stop with the ifs. take the facts

and kobe has broken almost every single lakers record (scoring wise) baylor held for a season..PPG, 40 pt games, total points in a season..

[DreamRockets]

no, i dont stop the ifs, you just say that because bryant was lucky to play with one of the best centers ever, period, iverson in there does the same, wade with prime shaq does the same.

[hotsizzle]

no, i dont stop the ifs, you just say that because bryant was lucky to play with one of the best centers ever, period, iverson in there does the same, wade with prime shaq does the same.

Ok, if magic didnt have kareem, his assissts would be down and he would win less, thus not being great. If Jordan didnt have Pippen, he wouldnt have won either. If Kobe played without shaq, he would average more points for his career than he is now..because he wouldnt have shaq to share it with.

you can base anything off IFs

[goldgrill4me]

So you guys are telling me that Carmello can have 27 40 Pt games while facing defense geared to stop him. His team won alot more games than they lost btw when he did so. Kobe's 35PPG isnt a fluke; stop discrediting him..."If kobe hadnt played with Shaq, his FG would be worst"...thats BS, stop with the ifs. take the facts

and kobe has broken almost every single lakers record (scoring wise) baylor held for a season..PPG, 40 pt games, total points in a season..

kobes 35 ppg isnt a fluke but it is a product of rule changes geared toward perimeter players. kobe himself said its much easier with the new rule changes.

[hotsizzle]

kobes 35 ppg isnt a fluke but it is a product of rule changes geared toward perimeter players. kobe himself said its much easier with the new rule changes.

ill agree with that, because its obviously apparent that the calls are favoring the offensive players but its not all a product of the rules. with the old rules, he would still avg about 32 or so

[geeWiz15]

If Kobe were a nugget he'd average 35 every year. this is a ridiculous question. Melo can't score like Kobe can. he's more efficient, but if he was asked to put up 35 (which, really, he's asked to score as much as he possibly can, it's not like anyone else on that team can) he couldn't do it. Kobe is a prototypical volume scorer. that's just what he does, really, he defines the art of volume scoring. personifies it. I don't like Kobe and I don't like volume scorers. but whose the better scorer? come on, it's Kobe. it's obvious.

there is nothing Melo can do that Kobe can't. nothing. Kobe's footwork is perfect too. Kobe just doesn't hit the post as much because he's got Walton and Odom which are both prototypical high post players.


i never said he was, i only said he was a better scorer than kobe bryant, explain to me why isnt he.
because he did his thing in an era when he was the only athletic player in like, the entire freaking league?

[DreamRockets]

and kobe was the only player taking 27 shots a game in like, the entire freakin league.

[hotsizzle]

and kobe was the only player taking 27 shots a game in like, the entire freakin league.

Elgin Baylor:

1961 Season: 29.7 FGA
1962 Season: 33.1 FGA
1963 Season: 28.4 FGA

[BA BARACUS]

:roll: Melo a better scorer than Kobe? The *** outta here. People always finding a way to take something away from Kobe. He has rings because of Shaq, phil jackson made him the player that he is, the Lakers win because of Luke Walton and Lamar Odom, smh. This the same man that scored 81 points in a ****en game, no overtime either, 62 in three quarters, has had halves where he dropped 55 and 42 ****en points respectively, you haters try to take everything else from him, at least give him that, the best scorer title.

[DreamRockets]

he shot 43, 43 and 45, same as kobe.

[DreamRockets]

:roll: Melo a better scorer than Kobe? The *** outta here. People always finding a way to take something away from Kobe. He has rings because of Shaq, phil jackson made him the player that he is, the Lakers win because of Luke Walton and Lamar Odom, smh. This the same man that scored 81 points in a ****en game, no overtime either, 62 in three quarters, has had halves where he dropped 55 and 42 ****en points respectively, you haters try to take everything else from him, at least give him that, the best scorer title.

which part of that is not true ?

[hotsizzle]

he shot 43, 43 and 45, same as kobe.

you made the point that kobe scored 35 a game and related it to 27 FGA. well baylor attempted just as much to score 30+..and so did Jordan the year he avg 37. nothing wrong with puttn up shots if you're gonna produce the points. and you talk as if 45% is bad...

[BA BARACUS]

:roll: Wow, he shoots 27 shots per game ONCE in his career and the haters wanna ***** about it. Iverson's career average is like 25 shots per game, yet everybody silent. I bet nobody in here will say that Melo's a better scorer than AI tho even tho AI is a career 42% shooter.

[DreamRockets]

45 isnt bad but is nothing special, jordan shot 48% when he averaed 37 and he shot 53% when he averaged 35, now THATS efficiency

[hotsizzle]

which part of that is not true ?

it is true but what he means is why arent people saying the same for every player that wins a ring. NO ONE does it alone.

[hotsizzle]

45 isnt bad but is nothing special, jordan shot 48% when he averaed 37 and he shot 53% when he averaged 35, now THATS efficiency

sure but im not comparing kobe to jordan. jordan wins hands down. im just making the point that 27 FGA attempts isnt bad if you produce...

[BA BARACUS]

which part of that is not true ?



Kobe was gonna be good, with or without Phil Jackson. He was an allstar before phil came. Kobe and Shaq won them rings together, period. People act like if you just erased Kobe out the line up that the Lakers would of won regardless which is not the case.

[DLakerfan]

kobe is on his way down while Melo is still improving and might be 3 yrs from hitting his prime.

[DreamRockets]

kobe was shaqs second in command, period, when you try to make it sound like they were equals is when i know you have no idea what you are talking about.

[hotsizzle]

kobe was shaqs second in command, period, when you try to make it sound like they were equals is when i know you have no idea what you are talking about.

yea he was but it doesnt mean he was useless..dude still put up 28+ and 30+ while stepping up big in the playoffs

[BA BARACUS]

kobe was shaqs second in command, period, when you try to make it sound like they were equals is when i know you have no idea what you are talking about.



lol You make it sound like Kobe was steve kerr in the Lakers championships. Shaq was more important, no doubt, but without Kobe none of those championships are possible. You really think the Lakers get past portland, sacramento and san antonio without Kobe? lol People think Shaq can win rings with Kareem Rush starting at guard. My goodness.

[geeWiz15]

Elgin Baylor:

1961 Season: 29.7 FGA
1962 Season: 33.1 FGA
1963 Season: 28.4 FGA
:roll:

wow this dude gets his ASS handed to him and still is posting in this thread. quit it dude. its over for you.

33.1 field goal attempts per game? and you're bagging on Kobe for 27?

[DreamRockets]

huh, ? baylor averaged more shots when teams were scoring 130 points a game, so what, is the same as 27 shots a game when teams score 95 a game, its simple logic.

[hotsizzle]

huh, ? baylor averaged more shots when teams were scoring 130 points a game, so what, is the same as 27 shots a game when teams score 95 a game, its simple logic.

then why did kobe score more pts in a season than baylor ever did? teams were scoring more back then..he should have scored more points. How come Kobe surpassed baylor's 26 40 pt games in a season if teams were scoring more...

[DreamRockets]

because baylor played with west who himself was a 27 ppg career scorer, kobe didnt do a thing until shaq was gone.

[K*O*B*E]

Are you ****ing serious MR 81 vs Melo come on

[hotsizzle]

because baylor played with west who himself was a 27 ppg career scorer, kobe didnt do a thing until shaq was gone.

ummm kobe avg 30/7/6 with Shaq on the team. He also avg 29/6/5

so wait, he took 33 FGA with west on the team..I wonder how many he would have taken if West didnt play with him

[DreamRockets]

once in his career, kobe was like a 22 ppg scorer with shaq on the team, im talking about careers here, baylor and west were so good at scoring that they both averaged 27 ppg playing together their entire careers.

[geeWiz15]

huh, ? baylor averaged more shots when teams were scoring 130 points a game, so what, is the same as 27 shots a game when teams score 95 a game, its simple logic.
SO, that means his high scoring averages MEAN LESS, dumbass.

if teams were scoring 130 points a game, that leads one to believe that the only athletic wing player in the entire game had it a bit easier than Kobe does now, wouldn't you say?

Baylor will always be overrated.

[DreamRockets]

oh please, baylor is overrated and i guess kobe is the next Mj ? this kobe groupies are unbelieveable

[MaxFly]

carmello isnt better because he shoots more, carmello is better because he shoot a higher %.

Field goal percentage isn't the be-all and end-all of efficiency. Are you aware that Kobe Bryant scores more points per shot attempt than Carmelo Anthony?

[Y2Gezee]

Field goal percentage isn't the be-all and end-all of efficiency. Are you aware that Kobe Bryant scores more points per shot attempt than Carmelo Anthony?


I agree, I actually think that fg% is one of the most overrated stats in basketball. My main argument is that Melo's offensive versatility is as good as Kobe's, and the fact that he is scoring so much only helps point out that he is in the "class" with the Iversons or Kobe's. But that pps stat is a bit tricky. You have to have more along the same stats to compare people with that. Kobe is shooting 46%, if he was taking 22 shots like Melo he'd probably still be averaging around that if not a little better or less. But yeah, fg% is overrated.

[wTFaMonkey]

uhh lol kobe :wtf:

[MaxFly]

Do people think that Melo is a better scorer than Iverson as well?

[Younggrease]

the term pure scorer imo talks about skill set. Kobe unlike Melo has no weakness in his skill set.

When have you seen Melo do something like this. Kobe isnt even 100% yet. He has the opposition so scared of his jumper they foul him on pull up threes. He gets doubled 30 feet from the basket.

Melo cant distort a defense like that. Dude is making AK41 look like Adam Morrison.

[geeWiz15]

to be fair AK really isn't that good a one on one defender. he has a reputation so players sometimes are discouraged but.. if you actually try to shake him it doesn't seem that hard when compared to other all-NBA defenders, at all. he's a great help defender, all-time great help defender for his position, but one on one he's vastly overrated. only way he can shut you down is if you take it easy on him and try to beat him with jumpshots.

[MaxFly]

to be fair AK really isn't that good a one on one defender. he has a reputation so players sometimes are discouraged but.. if you actually try to shake him it doesn't seem that hard when compared to other all-NBA defenders, at all. he's a great help defender, all-time great help defender for his position, but one on one he's vastly overrated. only way he can shut you down is if you take it easy on him and try to beat him with jumpshots.

This is a great assessment of AK, and inline with the way I perceive his defense. His length is bothersome, so players who attempt to shoot over him have a hard time hitting shots. Players who attack the basket can exploit him however, because his latteral quickness isn't impressive. He often attempts to use his length to hinder players attempting to drive, and if you have sufficient ball handling skills, you can bait him into sticking his arm out and attempt to drive through his arm, forcing the refs to blow the wistle. AK tries to do a good job of not sticking his arms out, but that results in quick players blowing by him.

[Y2Gezee]

the term pure scorer imo talks about skill set. Kobe unlike Melo has no weakness in his skill set.

When have you seen Melo do something like this. Kobe isnt even 100% yet. He has the opposition so scared of his jumper they foul him on pull up threes. He gets doubled 30 feet from the basket.

Melo cant distort a defense like that. Dude is making AK41 look like Adam Morrison.

Melo has no weaknesses either. Just because he doesn't have a good 3pt% doesn't mean he doesn't have range. He is very comfortable 20ft and in. He doesn't even like to take a lot of 3s, he usually only takes 3s in pressure situations like ends of quarters or shot clocks. But he's still a very good shooter and has some range, just not really comfortable with 3pt range. Yeah, you get 1 more pt for the 3pt shot, but its not as if all he can get are layups.

Plus his post game and the attention he gets down there I think evens it out.

As for AK, I agree with you guys. If he had any type of strength he'd be a great defender. People can push him around when they drive by him or post him up

[Younggrease]

Melo has no weaknesses either. Just because he doesn't have a good 3pt% doesn't mean he doesn't have range. He is very comfortable 20ft and in. He doesn't even like to take a lot of 3s, he usually only takes 3s in pressure situations like ends of quarters or shot clocks. But he's still a very good shooter and has some range, just not really comfortable with 3pt range. Yeah, you get 1 more pt for the 3pt shot, but its not as if all he can get are layups.

Plus his post game and the attention he gets down there I think evens it out.

Melo's weakness is his 3 point shooting... HE is not comfortable consisitently from 23 feet.

Also Melo is not a great ball handler.

[Y2Gezee]

Melo's weakness is his 3 point shooting... HE is not comfortable consisitently from 23 feet.

Also Melo is not a great ball handler.

But he's still a very very good pure shooter. Just because he'd rather take good shots doesn't take away from that. 20ft-23ft it all stretches the defense. And like I said its not like he's out taking 5 a game, which is how a lot of these guys get to 35%. If you have any shooting ability if you take 5 3s, there's a good chance you'll make 2.

And his ball handling ability isn't Kobe's or Lebron's, but I can't think of anybody he can't cross up, he can split doubles, and can a great penetrator. Not exactly a weakness.

[MaxFly]

Melo has no weaknesses either.

He's shooting less that 20% from beyond the three point line. That seems to be a weakness.

[Younggrease]

But he's still a very very good pure shooter. Just because he'd rather take good shots doesn't take away from that. 20ft-23ft it all stretches the defense. And like I said its not like he's out taking 5 a game, which is how a lot of these guys get to 35%. If you have any shooting ability if you take 5 3s, there's a good chance you'll make 2.

And his ball handling ability isn't Kobe's or Lebron's, but I can't think of anybody he can't cross up, he can split doubles, and can a great penetrator. Not exactly a weakness.

By you criteria other than Jordan, has there ever been a non big man who is a better scorer than Melo???

[MVP]

it looked as if Kobe read this thread before the Utah game tonight.

[eliteballer]

There's Kobe and then there's everyone else. Ya'll need to learn to accept that.

[DCpup]

LMAO @ this thread. This proves that Kobe is without a doubt the most hated man in sports.

[*Omni.Slasher*]

Im surprised Carmello hasn't had one 50 point game yet. His career high is 45...

[Zombles]

He's shooting less that 20% from beyond the three point line. That seems to be a weakness.

And he's taking more than 2 a game so it's not like he avoids the shot.

[Horde of Temujin]

for anybody who responds carmelo:
Youre an idiot

[Maximum310]

for anybody who responds carmelo:
Youre an idiot

LOL.....I second this notion!!

[hateraid]

I would say Kobe is more a a purer scorer cause he's got the better range and scores with more ease. Melo works hard for every bucket. Both pure scorers none the less.

[Y2Gezee]

Kobe was impressive tonight, and Im extremely glad they beat the Jazz. But I don't think this performance or any of the other 50pt affairs he will have changes the fact that Melo is in his class. Im pretty much arguing that Melo is on his level. Melo doesn't have to work extremely hard for what he gets, he really doesn't have the greenlight like Kobe. He can't come down and take really bad pull up shots unless it is truly a good shot. Karl wants him to work to get open, move without the ball and pretty much take good shots within the offense.

I remember a game last year where he went 13 of 16 from the floor, had that been most anybody else and they were that hot from the floor they atleast take 25 shots. And I don't think that really bothers him. He's an unselfish guy, not saying Kobe isn't, but Melo doesn't go hunting for stats.

[hateraid]

Y2, you really thinks he's not trying to work hard? He's searching to take it to the hole every time and uses jumpers as a last resort. He works a little harder that Kobe.
You know better though, you're more up to date on Melo.

[Y2Gezee]

It's not like he's getting beaten up everytime he scores. He actually moves a lot without the ball, gets open for lobs or gets passes from backdoor cuts. There's also a few instances in games where he'll come off of screens and tkae shots. Plus when he's posting guys up its usually a huge mismatch, as long as he works quickly and beats the doubles or triples he can get to the rim no problem. And if he gets good enough position he can put it up over the guy no problem, there are maybe 2 defenders in the post that can give him a struggle.

Slashers like Kobe, Wade, Bron get beaten up just as badly. Kobe gets bumped around a lot. Now you see a night like tonight where Kobe's jumper is falling like tonight and it looks like you can go and do it yourself, but usually he's probably using more energy running and dribbling to get open than Melo does downlow in the post against undersized guys.

It's not quite as pretty as Kobe's game though.

[LakersDynasty]

oh please, baylor is overrated and i guess kobe is the next Mj ? this kobe groupies are unbelieveable
:rollingeyes: Looks like the board has a new troll, you have about 30 posts in this thread, one dumber than the other, congratulations.

[HaNdLe ThE RoCk]

Kobe is the best scorer in the league.

9/9 and 30 points in the 3rd quarter.


Ended up with 52


The Best player in the league is back.

[crisoner]

Love Melo but Kobe is tops right now.

He can hit them up from every angle better then anyone in the NBA IMO.
And believe it or not I think Kobe is getting better.

[Timmy D for MVP]

Kobe was impressive tonight, and Im extremely glad they beat the Jazz. But I don't think this performance or any of the other 50pt affairs he will have changes the fact that Melo is in his class. Im pretty much arguing that Melo is on his level. Melo doesn't have to work extremely hard for what he gets, he really doesn't have the greenlight like Kobe. He can't come down and take really bad pull up shots unless it is truly a good shot. Karl wants him to work to get open, move without the ball and pretty much take good shots within the offense.

I remember a game last year where he went 13 of 16 from the floor, had that been most anybody else and they were that hot from the floor they atleast take 25 shots. And I don't think that really bothers him. He's an unselfish guy, not saying Kobe isn't, but Melo doesn't go hunting for stats.

:applause:

Exactly, your going to see Kobe's stats decrease as his team gets better, or they'll just start to lose again. Fact is Melo doesn't need to score 35 pts a night for his team to win. And the Lakers are becoming the same.

Plus Melo's got room to grow.

[artest 93]

haha yao won't be left alone without a ring or two. he has to be proven, although to win a ring u need a TEAM. thats why lakers won't get another one for a while, unless andrew bynum lives up to what he is exaggerated to be int his forums

to the topic, kobe is better. hahaha. I really think Kobe is better in almost everything...sometimes I don't understand why they are even compared. melo might be 2nd or 3rd int he league...in terms of scoring. only lebron james can be compared to kobe and kobe still wins. 2more years and we make new threads, asking these same questions. kobe shouldn't be in the list anymore because of the ridiculous young people coming in.

[GOBB]

Melo doesnt have the greenlight Kobe has. :wtf:

What kind of greenlight does Kobe have? Light taser green? :roll:

[West-Side]

I think Kobe saw the BS that some of you posted in this thread, and decided to go off on Utah. Thanks guys, make another bonehead thread please.

Ask Kirilenko who got his ass served last night after claiming "Kobe can't do anything against me." Uh huh.

[hotsizzle]

Repeat the question.

[raiderfan19]

Melo doesnt have the greenlight Kobe has. :wtf:

What kind of greenlight does Kobe have? Light taser green? :roll:
he might have a point if melo wasnt leading the league in shots....

[steadyfast96]

Repeat the question.


Okay! Better pure scorer Melo or Kobe??? :rockon:

[NugzFan]

let kobe be the more "pure" scorer - who gives a crap? i want wins. frankly id rather have a team with no stars, no post season awards, no publicity and lots of wins than the opposite. its all about the Ws.

[Y2Gezee]

Still Melo. Just because Jackson is giving Kobe the greenlight to take as many shots as he wants the past 2 games or whatever doesn't mean he's a purer scorer. When Kobe's on fire he's on fire, but Melo is pure consistency. He puts up 30 so easy its scary, half the time you wouldn't even know it. Hell watching the game vs the Nets Tuesday I seriously had no idea he had 30 after all of his foul trouble. I mean its rare to have a guy leading the league in scoring most of the year scoring 30 a game and his season high is only 42. And hell if he could get the calls that guys like Kobe gets from the refs, he'd still be in the scoring lead.

[hotsizzle]

Still Melo. Just because Jackson is giving Kobe the greenlight to take as many shots as he wants the past 2 games or whatever doesn't mean he's a purer scorer. When Kobe's on fire he's on fire, but Melo is pure consistency. He puts up 30 so easy its scary, half the time you wouldn't even know it. Hell watching the game vs the Nets Tuesday I seriously had no idea he had 30 after all of his foul trouble. I mean its rare to have a guy leading the league in scoring most of the year scoring 30 a game and his season high is only 42. And hell if he could get the calls that guys like Kobe gets from the refs, he'd still be in the scoring lead.

Melo was criticized for his selfish play by his coach...so its not like hes within team perfect team confines. He is also putting up 2 more shots than Kobe a game...and Kobe still leads. Melo is my second favorite player actually but he is by no means a better a scorer than Bryant. Skill-wise, Kobe is still better at almost every facet of the game on the offensive end...but they are close on many aspects.

Its worth noting that Bryant has been playing a team game all year, not concerned at all about scoring but still staying close to Melo who was going out there with intent to score (As Karl indicated at least). And then when the time where Bryant is given the green light to fire away, he overcomes a near 1 PPG in TWO games this late in the season.

Melo avg 8.7 FTA compared to Bryant's 9.7 FTA so I don't know where you're getting at since a near 9 FTA/gm is superstar-worthy anyways. Bryant also attempts 3 more threes than Melo and hits at a considerably higher %...

[BradMiller52]

Idiots need to stop bringing back 3 month old topics to prove they're right:hammerhead:

[hotsizzle]

Idiots need to stop bringing back 3 month old topics to prove they're right:hammerhead:

Its not about whose right and wrong, we're all here to argue/debate ball...the topic is more interesting when you look at it on two different instances.

[Y2Gezee]

Melo was criticized for his selfish play by his coach...so its not like hes within team perfect team confines. He is also putting up 2 more shots than Kobe a game...and Kobe still leads. Melo is my second favorite player actually but he is by no means a better a scorer than Bryant. Skill-wise, Kobe is still better at almost every facet of the game on the offensive end

Its worth noting that Bryant has been playing a team game all year, not concerned at all about scoring but still staying close to Melo who was going out there with intent to score (As Karl indicated at least). And then when the time where Bryant is given the green light to fire away, he overcomes a near 1 PPG in TWO games this late in the season.

Melo avg 8.7 FTA compared to Bryant's 9.7 FTA so I don't know where you're getting at since a near 9 FTA/gm is superstar-worthy anyways. Bryant also attempts 3 more threes than Melo and hits at a considerably higher %...

I don't think an argument can even be made for Melo. You're making waaay too big of a deal out of someone avg 29.8 PPG...


Karl called him selfish, but it was more so because of his defensive effort during the time. He said he wouldn't mind if Melo took less shots, as long as he's doing other things. Not really calling him a ballhog.

And you act like 29.8ppg is nothing, though it went down from the 32 he was getting prior to his suspensions seemingly due to the whole adjustments he's made due to the relatively new roster. And as much as Melo works in the paint, 8.7fta is nothing as compared to what he should be getting, he lives in the paint and gets hammered with no calls.

But Kobe made up nearly 1ppg due to him taking 39 shots and a lot of fts and then 35 shots and a lot of fts. I didn't call him selfish, but simply that is a lot of shots and Kobe took advantage.

There really isn't anything to argue, we're talking about 2 guys scoring pretty much the same amount of pts and efficiently. But as for the argument that can be made for Melo, Melo has been the more efficient player all year, and consistent one as he generally has the more efficient shot selection. Like I said, when Kobe's hot he's hot like taking the 26ft jumpers over people and making them. But Melo's game isn't about being "hot", its consistently easy for him due to his superior post game. And he doesn't have the occassional 45 shot game as his career high is 31 and it was done in triple OT.

Again there's no real winner in this as they're both compareably great scorers, but they generally get it done in different ways. However, Melo's way deserves more fts than he's getting.

[hotsizzle]

Karl called him selfish, but it was more so because of his defensive effort during the time. He said he wouldn't mind if Melo took less shots, as long as he's doing other things. Not really calling him a ballhog.

And you act like 29.8ppg is nothing. And as much as Melo works in the paint, 8.7fta is nothing as compared to what he should be getting, he lives in the paint and gets hammered with no calls.

But Kobe made up nearly 1ppg due to him taking 39 shots and a lot of fts and then 35 shots and a lot of fts. I didn't call him selfish, but simply that is a lot of shots and Kobe took advantage.

There really isn't anything to argue, we're talking about 2 guys scoring pretty much the same amount of pts and efficiently. But as for the argument that can be made for Melo, Melo has been the more efficient player all year, and consistent one as he generally has the more efficient shot selection. Like I said, when Kobe's hot he's hot like taking the 26ft jumpers over people and making them. But Melo's game isn't about being "hot", its consistently easy for him due to his superior post game. And he doesn't have the occassional 45 shot game as his career high is 31 and it was done in triple OT.

Again there's no real winner in this as they're both comparable, but they generally get it done in different ways. However, Melo's way deserves more fts than he's getting.

What I meant with the 29.8 PPG comment is that alot of players avg in that range..it isn't something sooo rare that it automatically warrants special merit/status. I'm not sure if that makes sense but I look at Melo and I'm more impressed with his offensive repertoire i.e. jabs, midrange shot, post-game, etc. than with statistics

About the point of Kobe taking alot of shots...yea he did, but those two games, he shot 54% which isnt easy to do especially if you take that many shots. Ehh and 12 and 14 FTs respectively isnt "ALOT" considering the amount of shots he took.

We're somewhat in agreement but we see it differently. I look it at Kobe and I tell myself "Damn, hes doing what he wants out there". While you look at Melo and you see his 30 PPG consistency all season. I also value Kobe's consistency over the years to keep doing what hes doing...especially that 35 PPG season.

Anyways, both are phenomenal players but I'm giving the edge to KB for now...

[BradMiller52]

Its not about whose right and wrong, we're all here to argue/debate ball...the topic is more interesting when you look at it on two different instances.


Then start a new one. But people can't argue saying "well in 3 months this will happen..." At the time, Kobe was putting up like 25-27 PPG and Melo was putting up 30-31. What were people supposed to say? They didn't know Kobe would have 2 explosive games in 3 months. And Melo is the more consistent scorer IMO. He's usually dropping 30. Kobe is the more explosive scorer. He can go off for 50-60.

[hotsizzle]

Then start a new one. But people can't argue saying "well in 3 months this will happen..." At the time, Kobe was putting up like 25-27 PPG and Melo was putting up 30-31. What were people supposed to say? They didn't know Kobe would have 2 explosive games in 3 months. And Melo is the more consistent scorer IMO. He's usually dropping 30. Kobe is the more explosive scorer. He can go off for 50-60.

Well Jeff stresses about bumping topics from previous pages anyways...and its not about knowing what will happen..this isn't a prediction thread. Like you said, Kobe was putting up 25 PPG to Melo's 30 PPG. Posters responded accordingly, 3 months later and the same question can be asked now with both at the same mark...the bump was to continue on a topic. Chill bro.

[BradMiller52]

IMO Melo is always going to be more consistent because of his post game and mid range jumper. But Kobe can explode every 5-10(heck even back to back games) games because he can get hot and he has rediculous range+ball handling ability. Not to mention his great first step. But Melo is definitely more consistent, and Kobe is the guy who will have nights where he either carries his team or takes them out of the game. Because of the shots he takes.

[hotsizzle]

Contrary to what many may think, Anthony is NOT a more effecient scorer than Bryant because of the FG% (Anthony: 47.6%; Bryant: 46.3%). FG% can be very misleading. Who is a more effecient player ?..one who is better at maximizing production, or in this case, the player who scores more on less possessions.

Currently, Anthony is avg 23.4 FGA and Kobe is avg 21.4 FGA (Two more possessions). Another aspect to take into consideration is FTA. Bryant is avg 9.7 FTA to Anthony's 8.7 FTA...that one more foul shot (1/2 of a possession)...so the net: Anthony uses 1.5 more possessions than Bryant but Bryant still averages more points (slightly).

Moreoever, one has to consider that Bryant takes and makes more threes (which are lower% shots). This is where eFG% must be considered in which Bryant's is 50.6 eFG% to Anthony's 48.8 eFG%

You cant determine scoring efficiency solely off of FG%..does it play a role?of course; is it a gospel? not by any means

[BradMiller52]

I'm not talking about FG% or eFG% or stuff like that. I'm talking about the type of shots they get. Melo plays in the post a lot more and shoots more mid range Js. Part of that is he has a height/strength advantage on some players but he is pretty skilled down there. Kobe is obsessed with shooting 3s. When he's hot and those 3s are falling that can get him an extra 12-15 points, but when they're missing than that's the type of shot that can take your team out of a game. Melo doesn't take those shots.

[IBall280]

melo is more efficient b/c his buckets are closer and he doesnt have to launch 50,000 long range shots a game... he uses his power in the paint instead

[Younggrease]

melo is more efficient b/c his buckets are closer and he doesnt have to launch 50,000 long range shots a game... he uses his power in the paint instead

melo is also easier to shut down because he lacks range.

[tmacman]

Kobe in a landslide

[Psileas]

Contrary to what many may think, Anthony is NOT a more effecient scorer than Bryant because of the FG% (Anthony: 47.6%; Bryant: 46.3%). FG% can be very misleading. Who is a more effecient player ?..one who is better at maximizing production, or in this case, the player who scores more on less possessions.

Currently, Anthony is avg 23.4 FGA and Kobe is avg 21.4 FGA (Two more possessions). Another aspect to take into consideration is FTA. Bryant is avg 9.7 FTA to Anthony's 8.7 FTA...that one more foul shot (1/2 of a possession)...so the net: Anthony uses 1.5 more possessions than Bryant but Bryant still averages more points (slightly).

That's exactly why the international rule of counting 2-p and 3-p shots is much preferable to me and many others.
Anthony is more stable a scorer than Kobe this year and an equal/slightly better mid-range shooter. That's about it;

FT: Melo: 80.5%, Kobe 86.4%
2p: Melo: 50.2%, Kobe 49.7%
3p: Melo: 23.9%, Kobe 35.7%

PPS: Melo: 1.275, Kobe 1.405. Add in free throws and few change, since Kobe averages 1 FT more.

There goes the "Kobe fans hate it when it comes to efficiency" myth.
Melo, though, may be a more efficient scorer than Iverson. I'll give you that. :)

[JtotheIzzo]

falk efficiency and falk all the statistics

you can twist them to fit any specific need, they dont mean shiiiit

bottom line is Kobe has dropped more than 60 a few times, and dropped 81.

You gotta be one of the purest scorers of all time to do that

Melo aint done shiiiit comparatively

Kobe in a landslide

anything else and you're Knoe or AAP

[Psileas]

falk efficiency and falk all the statistics
you can twist them to fit any specific need, they dont mean shiiiit

Stats may be useful in the hands of some or turn into a misleading tool in the hands of others, depending on how they use them...

[JtotheIzzo]

Stats may be useful in the hands of some or turn into a mischief machine in the hands of others, depending on how they use them...

very true Paul Silas

but

I find this debate to be shocking. Sure Melo is a great scorer, but Kobe has filled it up like very few have.

This is really a no brainer

[Loki]

the only season i have seen him consistently scoring and shooting high % was 03 when he averaged 30 pts on 47% shooting along with 6 assists, that was imo his best season, not 06.

He actually shot somewhere around 43.5% in the 15 games Shaq missed that season, but averaged more points (~31.5 iirc) on more FGA/gm (~26.5/gm iirc). With Shaq, his scoring dipped to around 29-29.5 ppg, but he was much more efficient (~47.5% FG/23 FGA/gm).

[Rasheed1]

I hate when people try to rationalize kobe shooting a lower percentage due to all the 3's he shoots..

he doesnt get a pass for that, that one of the problems with his game, he shoots too many bad/difficult shots....

thats not smart basketball

[Knoe Itawl]

I hate when people try to rationalize kobe shooting a lower percentage due to all the 3's he shoots..

he doesnt get a pass for that, that one of the problems with his game, he shoots too many bad/difficult shots....

thats not smart basketball

Correct.

And obviously Kobe is a great scorer, but I would love to see some other players take the number of shots he's taken and see what kind of scoring numbers they could put up.

[Younggrease]

I hate when people try to rationalize kobe shooting a lower percentage due to all the 3's he shoots..

he doesnt get a pass for that, that one of the problems with his game, he shoots too many bad/difficult shots....

thats not smart basketball

Why does percentage matter more than pps??? Kobe is good shooter and the threat of his jumper forces teams to double him from sometimes thirty feet away from the basket distorting defenses at rare times to Shaq like proportions. His 3 pointer and jumpshot shot not be held against him.

[NugzFan]

melo is also easier to shut down because he lacks range.

yeah its so easy that no one has decided to do it this year.

[Rasheed1]

Why does percentage matter more than pps???

im not saying how much percentage matters, but I do think that is one of the problems with Kobe's game...

He is reckless, and its not a good thing





Kobe is good shooter and the threat of his jumper forces teams to double him from sometimes thirty feet away from the basket distorting defenses at rare times to Shaq like proportions. His 3 pointer and jumpshot shot not be held against him.

Kobe is an awesome shooter, but he has a bit too much confidence and it hurts the team on occasion. 3 pointers are low percentage shots, so a player should only shoot them when he is wide open.. When kobe gets to jacking up the 3's, he is basically wasting possesions for the lakers.. When a team is as marginal as the lakers, they cant afford to waste possesions because they will need every opportunity to score points...

Kobe would be a Mj caliber player if he could control his game and take better shots....

his Fg% would go up and he'd be the leader the team needs to go deep in the playoffs.

when you compare that aspect of his game to a guy like Wade or Melo, it is obviously a weakness in comparison.. Kobe is a better shooter than Wade, but Wade's game is almost always focused on what he does best... His game is narrowed down to midrange jumpers, slashin, and getting to the hoop drawing contact....

Kobe could improve in this area

[Younggrease]

yeah its so easy that no one has decided to do it this year.

yeah for some reason they seem to wait until the first round of the playoffs... and im not hating because im a huge Melo and AI fan(but its the truth)

[different107]

Kobe Kobe Kobe

[hotsizzle]

Sheed, I don't know if you were replying to me or not but Im not really rationalizing Kobe taking difficult shots. Most of the statistics I took into consideration were straight forward:confusedshrug:

[hotsizzle]

Kobe is an awesome shooter, but he has a bit too much confidence and it hurts the team on occasion. 3 pointers are low percentage shots, so a player should only shoot them when he is wide open.. When kobe gets to jacking up the 3's, he is basically wasting possesions for the lakers.. When a team is as marginal as the lakers, they cant afford to waste possesions because they will need every opportunity to score points...

Kobe would be a Mj caliber player if he could control his game and take better shots....

his Fg% would go up and he'd be the leader the team needs to go deep in the playoffs.

when you compare that aspect of his game to a guy like Wade or Melo, it is obviously a weakness in comparison.. Kobe is a better shooter than Wade, but Wade's game is almost always focused on what he does best... His game is narrowed down to midrange jumpers, slashin, and getting to the hoop drawing contact....

Kobe could improve in this area

The part you bolded, that is exactly what I took into consideration when comparing him to Melo. Kobe scores more on 1.5 less possessions.

The rest of your arguement I fully agree with, I always thought that the main difference between Kobe and Jordan (in terms of on the court play) is that Jordan played to his strengths. While Kobe seems to takes being able to knock difficult shots for granted and attemtps them. Still though, its not like hes piss poor effecient. Hes above average

[kp117]

Kobe is a better shooter than Wade, but Wade's game is almost always focused on what he does best... His game is narrowed down to midrange jumpers, slashin, and getting to the hoop drawing contact....



Can you please help me on how to explain this in layman's terms to my friends?

This is the sole reason why Wade is the best player. He sticks to the script.

[Rasheed1]

He sticks to the script.

^you said it pretty well yourself

Kobe thinks (and plays) like a hero.. Always attempting the save the day.. there is no shot too daring for bean bryant... He takes them all and hits a good amount of them

Wade just sticks to the script..He's been told a hundred times where his strengths are and to keep producing in that area... he knows he's just a piece to a winning puzzle, a very important piece, but one of many pieces.

[ronron15]

man its kobe

when questions like these get brought up... no point arguing in wat people THINK.. just gotta bring out wat they achieved, casue that's some that's established n cant be argued

kobe: 81 points, 65 n 50 points, 35ppg, leadin league in scoring now

melo: only thing tat hes established is 19ppg in the summer n 2nd in league right now

[Bond007]

this is not even worthy to have a thread....kobe by landslide

[airjordanman23]

Yah i agree with alotta guys in this talk
I think Kobe is ahead of Melo overall... saying that Melo so far this year doesnt take insane shot attemts..PS. Im a Huge Fan of Kobe

And i cant compare stats because kobe averages 30.0 a game and Melo averages 29.8 so thats not right cuz melo makes up for it in rebounds..

But all in all Ill give it to Kobe cause a 65 night than 50 night is crazy.. Melo is amazing though

[Samurai Swoosh]

I can't believe some clown even have the nerve to ask this. SMH...

[Y2Gezee]

yeah for some reason they seem to wait until the first round of the playoffs... and im not hating because im a huge Melo and AI fan(but its the truth)


They don't shut him down due to his lack of range, its easier to shut him down because the Nugz lack consistent outside shooting. Whereas the Lakers never have. Thus easier to make Melo take bad shots out of the paint over 2 people.

When people load up on Kobe he has trouble too.

I think the Nugz finally have enough outside shooters, but they're aren't consistent with it. They don't exactly have more than one guy hitting them in the same game consistently though. JR is a monster 3pt shoote, but he's struggling right now after his surgery. Blake was shooting like 50% for a while from 3, and now he's down to like 31% as a Nug, he's much better than that. Right now Kleiza is hot from 3 and has risen his shooting to 35% when it was like below 30%. AI has come in and become a good 3pt shooter, but still it would be nice to have JR and Blake hitting them consistent as they log big minutes. If so Melo and AI would be unstoppable, Nene too.

But in the past 2 postseasons the Nugz have made less than 20 total 3s, in 10 games, that's pretty terrible and makes it damn near impossible for a 1 man offensive team to get off against good defensive teams (which the Nugz have faced since Melo has been getting them in the playoffs).

[jjayfive]

kobe has more arsenal......melo is very good at what he does (footwork, post and midrange)....kobe has never met a shot he doesn't like (which is a bad thing)...the only person with worse shot selection is arenas....i still think mcgrady and kobe are the two best scorers.....

[DLeagueWannabe]

im not saying how much percentage matters, but I do think that is one of the problems with Kobe's game...

He is reckless, and its not a good thing






Kobe is an awesome shooter, but he has a bit too much confidence and it hurts the team on occasion. 3 pointers are low percentage shots, so a player should only shoot them when he is wide open.. When kobe gets to jacking up the 3's, he is basically wasting possesions for the lakers.. When a team is as marginal as the lakers, they cant afford to waste possesions because they will need every opportunity to score points...

Kobe would be a Mj caliber player if he could control his game and take better shots....

his Fg% would go up and he'd be the leader the team needs to go deep in the playoffs.

when you compare that aspect of his game to a guy like Wade or Melo, it is obviously a weakness in comparison.. Kobe is a better shooter than Wade, but Wade's game is almost always focused on what he does best... His game is narrowed down to midrange jumpers, slashin, and getting to the hoop drawing contact....

Kobe could improve in this area

I'm a huge Laker fan, and I agree somewhat with what you're saying...

[lakerfreak]

This is actually a pretty tough topic because you can make a case for both players.

I'm gonna go with Kobe because he has a variety of hangtime moves like his baseline fadeaway that ou just cant guard.

But Melo is a very strong small forward, he can have his way in the paint and at the same time he has the sweetest stroke. I love anthony's game.

Kobe>Melo.

[SoCalMike]

This is actually a pretty tough topic because you can make a case for both players.

I'm gonna go with Kobe because he has a variety of hangtime moves like his baseline fadeaway that ou just cant guard.

But Melo is a very strong small forward, he can have his way in the paint and at the same time he has the sweetest stroke. I love anthony's game.

Kobe>Melo.

Can't I just have Melo play alongside Kobe? Make the trade man! :D


:pimp:

[Younggrease]

Still Melo. Just because Jackson is giving Kobe the greenlight to take as many shots as he wants the past 2 games or whatever doesn't mean he's a purer scorer. When Kobe's on fire he's on fire, but Melo is pure consistency. He puts up 30 so easy its scary, half the time you wouldn't even know it. Hell watching the game vs the Nets Tuesday I seriously had no idea he had 30 after all of his foul trouble. I mean its rare to have a guy leading the league in scoring most of the year scoring 30 a game and his season high is only 42. And hell if he could get the calls that guys like Kobe gets from the refs, he'd still be in the scoring lead.

is it still Melo?

[LA_Showtime]

I still think Carmelo Anthony has a chance to be a top 3 guy in this league. He's got so much ****ing talent that it's crazy.

[Younggrease]

I still think Carmelo Anthony has a chance to be a top 3 guy in this league. He's got so much ****ing talent that it's crazy.

Carmello Anthony has no such chance in his career. Even at his 100% Lebron, Wade, CP3 and Dwight are still a good deal better...Im not even including the old heads like Kobe and TD. Or the new guys that are prob gonna overtake him like Brandon Roy(already has) and Kevin Durant(give him another year)

[LA_Showtime]

Carmello Anthony has no such chance in his career. Even at his 100% Lebron, Wade, CP3 and Dwight are still a good deal better...Im not even including the old heads like Kobe and TD. Or the new guys that are prob gonna overtake him like Brandon Roy(already has) and Kevin Durant(give him another year)

He's got the talent to do it though. I just don't think he's got the teammates or situation that will allow him to achieve his potential. Come on, this guy has to be one of the more talented guys in the league.

[MeloMike]

Coming from a Melo fan,
Lets see:
Mid Range: slight edge Kobe
Threes: Melo has improved alot in this catagory, shooting 39%, more than kobe has ever shot from 3. Edge- Melo
Driving: Kobe. More in control, better at getting to the line (Melo would be there more if the stripes gave him some calls but...). Kobe is better at finishing around the rim too, although Melo has his moments.
Free throw shooting: Kobe. %s don't lie.
O Reb baskets: Melo by default cuz of his size
Post game: Slight edge Melo, amazing array of moves down there.
Clutch: Melo again, has great regular season moments, but Kobe just gets it done when it counts aka playoffs and reg season. Edge Kobe.
Looks fairly even, but I gotta go with Kobe at this point, he just gets it done more often than Melo and this year more efficiently.

[BlackMamba24]

He's got the talent to do it though. I just don't think he's got the teammates or situation that will allow him to achieve his potential. Come on, this guy has to be one of the more talented guys in the league.
He's definitely talented but I don't see the leadership qualities in him. His level of play has declined quite a bit in the playoffs. He's an amazing scorer, has improved his defense, good instincts and all that but I think the ability to lead a team is what seperates him from guys like LeBron, Wade etc. I don't see why you would say he doesn't have the teammates to achieve his potential. It's not like his team hinder's his growth or improvement. He doesn't have any player who dominates the ball. It's usual that a player's stats will boost up when his team's pretty ****ty. Statistically, I think he has already peaked. Talkin about the 06-07 season. He can have a better season depending upon the circumstances, though.

[JJ81]

Definitely Kobe