don't forget Bush is a war criminal

[kentatm]

He fully admits to authorizing water boarding.


Water boarding is torture and the use of torture is a war crime.

We have prosecuted it as such in the past time and time again.

Ergo, he is a war criminal.
















and Eric Holder/Obama will do nothing.

never mind we had a President impeached for lying about a BJ.

:facepalm

[the GIBBET]

you're still crying about water boarding????


dude, honestly, water boarding is the smallest deal ever.



if you really consider yourself politically minded, speak out about something that matters.


you are a huge nerd.

[kentatm]

you think our leader authorizing illegal torture is no great shakes?


riiiiight.



The President should not be above the law.

Apparently you think he should.





and BTW, if its no big deal, lets water board YOU.

we can film it and stick it up on ISH to show everyone what a real man you are.

[LuppersGB]

read up on the facts...

It was made illegal under US law(only for civilians,military and para-military organisations) after like 2008, unless you apply it retrospectively he didn't break US law.
The US does not always act in accordance with International law. It may choose to on a moral high-ground (like 90% of the time) but if its not in the US interest then it wont, and no one can do shit about it

[beermonsteroo]

Nazi Germany attacking Poland and USA attacking Iraq.
From an objective point of view the difference isn't all that big.

[rufuspaul]

Nazi Germany attacking Poland and USA attacking Iraq.
From an objective point of view the difference isn't all that big.

:facepalm

[Hawker]

Nazi Germany attacking Poland and USA attacking Iraq.
From an objective point of view the difference isn't all that big.

Except we're not making concentration camps for anybody...and we're not trying to take over the world.

[boozehound]

you're still crying about water boarding????


dude, honestly, water boarding is the smallest deal ever.



if you really consider yourself politically minded, speak out about something that matters.


you are a huge nerd.
try getting out in the world. The president of the US authorizing torture is a huge blow to our international image/standing. Now, I know you will argue we dont need to care about what the world thinks, but that is a completely unrealistic view. When we act like the world police and engage in "preventative" war, we have an obligation to proceed within the international rules of engagement.


I loved how in the interview with lauer (sp?), he refused to address the reverse of this (if other countries tortured US citizens with water boarding).

[kNIOKAS]

Except we're not making concentration camps for anybody...and we're not trying to take over the world.
lol



:facepalm

[boozehound]

Except we're not making concentration camps for anybody...and we're not trying to take over the world.
oh really? Gitmo wasnt a concentration camp? The vast majority of detainees in it were never charged with anything.

The Random House Dictionary defines the term "concentration camp" as: "a guarded compound for the detention or imprisonment of aliens, members of ethnic minorities, political opponents, etc.", and, the American Heritage Dictionary defines it as: "A camp where civilians, enemy aliens, political prisoners, and sometimes prisoners of war are detained and confined, typically under harsh conditions."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment#Concentration_camps

[Hazard]

Really? Water boarding is all you can come up with? Try the whole ****ing war as a war crime, you been to wikileaks recently? I've known all this for a while since I heard a lot from my vet friends, but now it's available to all the public yet people still remain ignorant. Amazing. It's ok enjoy this life of entitled ignorance while you can, sooner or later it will come crashing down.

Happy vets day by the way, to anyone that actually remembers the people that gave their life fighting so we can have our little reality shows and sports.

[Patrick Chewing]

What year is this?

[RaininThrees]

read up on the facts...

It was made illegal under US law(only for civilians,military and para-military organisations) after like 2008, unless you apply it retrospectively he didn't break US law.
The US does not always act in accordance with International law. It may choose to on a moral high-ground (like 90% of the time) but if its not in the US interest then it wont, and no one can do shit about it

Rules and law are not put in place to be followed when it is convenient.

[kentatm]

read up on the facts...

It was made illegal under US law(only for civilians,military and para-military organisations) after like 2008, unless you apply it retrospectively he didn't break US law.
The US does not always act in accordance with International law. It may choose to on a moral high-ground (like 90% of the time) but if its not in the US interest then it wont, and no one can do shit about it


wait what? We prosecuted Japanese soldiers in WWII for waterboarding. We have done the same with our own soldiers and civilians pre 2008 as well.

Where are you reading it only became illegal in 2008?

[LuppersGB]

Rules and law are not put in place to be followed when it is convenient.

I beg to differ. The biggest wolf in the pack makes the decisions when he wants to and everyone has to deal with it or stand up to him.
The US is in the position of the only world super power, and thus makes the rules and no one can stop it.
ie 2003 invasion of iraq. UN security council said no. USA gave them the two fingers and did it anyways...who stopped them?
As i said the US does not always abide by international law because as a sovereign nation it uses the principle that no organisation or sate is above it and can tell it what to do. Now it can impose international law on other states because it can tell them what to do.

[LuppersGB]

wait what? We prosecuted Japanese soldiers in WWII for waterboarding. We have done the same with our own soldiers and civilians pre 2008 as well.

Where are you reading it only became illegal in 2008?

ok, i take the hit and admit i didn't read the facts right (after re-reading).my bad

however i still believe my point stands that you can only try civvie, military and para-military personnel. thus CIA is allowed...and why they do

[TonyJones]

He fully admits to authorizing water boarding.


Water boarding is torture and the use of torture is a war crime.

We have prosecuted it as such in the past time and time again.

Ergo, he is a war criminal.



:facepalm

Yes, it may be a crime by international standards but he is "our" guy. Nothing will happen to him inside of the US. His actions will be seen as necessary and "heroic" to some hard core patriots.


and Eric Holder/Obama will do nothing.

never mind we had a President impeached for lying about a BJ.


Don't let the Right/Left system in politics fool you. They are all on the same team at the end of the day. Thats why nothing will happen to Bush.

[beermonsteroo]

Except we're not making concentration camps for anybody...and we're not trying to take over the world.

I said the attack on Poland not the Holocaust.

Hitler attacked Poland for economic and ideological reasons.
He used a lie to justify it. ( attack on sender Gleiwitz)

Bush attacked Iraq for economic and ideological reaosns too.
He used a lie to justify it. (weapons of amss destruction)

Both wars had no legitimation what so ever.
That's a fact.

What's the difference??

[gts]

I said the attack on Poland not the Holocaust.

Hitler attacked Poland for economic and ideological reasons.
He used a lie to justify it. ( attack on sender Gleiwitz)

Bush attacked Iraq for economic and ideological reaosns too.
He used a lie to justify it. (weapons of amss destruction)

Both wars had no legitimation what so ever.
That's a fact.

What's the difference??the US didn't throw a few million iraqi citizens in the pizza oven

[Hazard]

the US didn't throw a few million iraqi citizens in the pizza oven
Yeah instead we just executed them in the worst way possible. Big difference. Genocide is genocide whether pizza ovens are involved or not.

[kNIOKAS]

the US didn't throw a few million iraqi citizens in the pizza oven
that's not that much of a difference. the principle remains the same....

[bagelred]

the US didn't throw a few million iraqi citizens in the pizza oven

Exactly. We just shoot them or even better, drop bombs. No need for ovens. We do things efficiently. :rockon:

America, baby......america........

[NoName22]

Wait...wait... didn't the US attack Iraq to protect their freedom ?

[rufuspaul]

I find it odd that people assume the fact that no WMDs were found means that Iraq never had them. They had them and used them in the past and then got rid of them, much to the surprise of our bungling intelligence community.

[Jailblazers7]

Don't forget that he doesn't care about black people either.

[rufuspaul]

This is a biased source, but interesting food for thought.

http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=27199


[QUOTE]
[FONT=Times New Roman]Al Gore and Bill Clinton had themselves called for the removal of Saddam by force when he expelled the UN weapons inspectors in 1998, a clear violation of the Gulf truce. This was the reason Clinton and Gore sent an

[Hazard]

I find it odd that people assume the fact that no WMDs were found means that Iraq never had them. They had them and used them in the past and then got rid of them, much to the surprise of our bungling intelligence community.
How is that relevant to us staying in Iraq after Hussein was executed? I'll admit I was happy to see that asshole hang, but after that event the whole occupation started making very little sense to me. If you can justify this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/datablog/interactive/2010/oct/23/wikileaks-iraq-deaths-map with we were looking for WMD's then I don't know what else to tell you.

[boozehound]

I find it odd that people assume the fact that no WMDs were found means that Iraq never had them. They had them and used them in the past and then got rid of them, much to the surprise of our bungling intelligence community.
this is pretty much bullshit. Its true that they had chemical weapons (that we sold them), but there is no real evidence of them manufacturing WMDs. Any reasonable perusal of the available data shows that the bush admin chose which intelligence to present and use in its argument, while ignoring/hiding the intelligence that contradicted it. the centrifuge tubes are the most obvious example (all of the nuclear experts agreed that these tubes could not be used to refine uranium for weapons grade shit, yet this was completely ignored by the admin because it didnt support their argument). Good approach in a debate? Maybe, but terrible governance.

[Rosie Cheeks]

(Democrat) Woodrow Wilson - WW1

(Democrat) FDR - WW2

(Democrat) Harry Truman - Cold War

(Democrat) Harry Truman - Korean War

(Democrat) Harry Truman - Vietnam (sent MAAG in 4 years prior to Eisenhower)

(Republican) George Bush sr - Gulf War

(Democrat) Bill Clinton - Bosnian War

(Democrat) Bill Clinton - Kosovo War

(Republican) George Bush jr - War on Terror






The Republicans are war mongers

[kentatm]

(Democrat) Woodrow Wilson - WW1

(Democrat) FDR - WW2

(Democrat) Harry Truman - Cold War

(Democrat) Harry Truman - Korean War

(Democrat) Harry Truman - Vietnam (sent MAAG in 4 years prior to Eisenhower)

(Republican) George Bush sr - Gulf War

(Democrat) Bill Clinton - Bosnian War

(Democrat) Bill Clinton - Kosovo War

(Republican) George Bush jr - War on Terror






The Republicans are war mongers



:facepalm


nice biased ass post with some sweet misinformation.

[Rosie Cheeks]

It's not biased or misinformation, it's original and 100% fact just like the thread you started. It's not cliche and typical nonsense because were both socially inept and sad people who will never fit in. We're cool and counter-culture

[EarlTheGoat]

It's not biased or misinformation, it's original and 100% fact just like the thread you started. It's not cliche and typical nonsense because were both socially inept and sad people who will never fit in. We're cool and counter-culture


:lol

[kentatm]

It's not biased or misinformation, it's original and 100% fact just like the thread you started. It's not cliche and typical nonsense because were both socially inept and sad people who will never fit in. We're cool and counter-culture

it is actually.

i'll give you a few more hours to figure it out.

[boozehound]

(Democrat) Woodrow Wilson - WW1

(Democrat) FDR - WW2

(Democrat) Harry Truman - Cold War

(Democrat) Harry Truman - Korean War

(Democrat) Harry Truman - Vietnam (sent MAAG in 4 years prior to Eisenhower)

(Republican) George Bush sr - Gulf War

(Democrat) Bill Clinton - Bosnian War

(Democrat) Bill Clinton - Kosovo War

(Republican) George Bush jr - War on Terror






The Republicans are war mongers
not sure why I would respond to a post by this sock account, but I will. Why in the world are Kosovo and Bosnia listed as US engaged wars? Where's the actual military actions (like Somalia) that the US engaged in? and no distinction between the war on terror and the war in Iraq?

Also, no Grenada? or Panama? And there is a difference between a war monger (which is probably not appropriate for any of them other than possibly the last pres. anyways) and a war criminal. FDR was clearly reluctant to engage. The only legit war initiator democrat pres on that list is truman

[Enigmatism]

I heart internet revolutionaries....

[boozehound]

you do realize that you are basically dismissing the entire convention of law and the social contract? Thats what makes anything illegal, that its agreed to be a set of behavior outside of the acceptable choices in society.

[rufuspaul]

this is pretty much bullshit. Its true that they had chemical weapons (that we sold them).


Yeah we've all read that the US sold the Iraqis materials and technology for wmds. Bad move and a good reason to go in and destroy them. But we get there and where are they?

Did we also manufacture Saddam's noncompliance with UN resolutions and the terms of the Gulf War?

IMO Saddam was gonna get his comeuppance sooner or later. He knew the UN was powerless to enforce anything on him and both the Clinton and Bush administrations were running out of patience. Was it an appropriate response to 9/11? No, but in the minds of the W administration things were going smoothly in Afghanistan so why not take care of some other housekeeping while you're in the region? And remember that practically all of the higher ups in the Clinton administration were in favor of the resolution.

Of course the aftermath of any act of war is a whole other ball of wax.

[RoseCity07]

For all the soldiers that died because Bush stole the election, I hope Bush and Cheney burn in hell. If we all have such a short memory, we deserve to have this country fall apart.

[Riddler]

He fully admits to authorizing water boarding.

Water boarding is torture and the use of torture is a war crime.





And if you don't think water boarding is torture your an idiot... and if you don't think it should be a crime your f*cking retarded.


Sorry... but the only thing that separates America from the the bad guys is that we do not torture under any circumstances.

my two cents.

[blondie]

o waterboarding boohoo, you know what they do in every single undeveloped country in the world and even developed ones like Russia?

They electrocute your ****ing balls and bottom of your feet, yeh I think compared to the rest of the world, Bush has been pretty humane.

waterboarding causes no physical or permanent damage, would you rather he stick electrical clamps on everyones testicles?

[blondie]

And if you don't think water boarding is torture your an idiot... and if you don't think it should be a crime your f*cking retarded.


Sorry... but the only thing that separates America from the the bad guys is that we do not torture under any circumstances.

my two cents.
You're a ****ing naive simpleton if you truly believe that bullshit.

You do know on nearly every army base there is a shipping container from one of our ally nations, for example egypt, and this is where you take prisoners to beat the shit out of them, because technically inside of the shipping container is foreign soil?

America tortures prisoners just as much as every other nation in the world, what makes you think we don't? How do you think the FBI and CIA extract information from anyone, by asking nicely and giving them a slice of mom's home made apple pie?:facepalm

[blondie]

you do realize that you are basically dismissing the entire convention of law and the social contract? Thats what makes anything illegal, that its agreed to be a set of behavior outside of the acceptable choices in society.
Why aren't you guys throwing bitch fits about other nations like Russia, Germany and France physically beating the shit out of their prisoners, and using other forms of torture? If anything you guys should be more outraged at those nations using torture techniques that can possibly cause permanent damage or death, compared to George Bush using a form of what amounts to psychological torture with no physical harm done?

Nearly every other first world nation is worse than us and still you guys are throwing little girl tantrums about waterboarding, simply because Bill Maher told you to hate Bush:rolleyes:


for the record Im not republican and think Bush was a bad president too

By your definition of war criminal-using torture-every leader in the world is currently a war criminal. Come on bozos use your heads, Slobodan Milosevic was a war criminal, Bush was just a dumbass politician

[Riddler]

Why aren't you guys throwing bitch fits about other nations like Russia, Germany and France physically beating the shit out of their prisoners, and using other forms of torture?

Because we are America and we can kick anybodies @ss.

It has to draw a line somewhere.

and besides... we don't give a f*ck what they do over there, but in America we don't torture.

[blondie]

Because we are America and we can kick anybodies @ss.

It has to draw a line somewhere.

and besides... we don't give a f*ck what they do over there, but in America we don't torture.
Are you really that naive? Do you really believe that? Well sorry to burst your bubble of child-like trust but we torture just as much as everyother nation, we just do it more humanely, with waterboarding instead of electro clamps on your testicles and souls of your feet.

Do you truly believe America doesn't torture it's prisoners? Did you forget about Abu Gharib? Where did you first learn that America doesn't use torture? Who told you this fallacy and why were you dense enough to believe it?

[boozehound]

Why aren't you guys throwing bitch fits about other nations like Russia, Germany and France physically beating the shit out of their prisoners, and using other forms of torture? If anything you guys should be more outraged at those nations using torture techniques that can possibly cause permanent damage or death, compared to George Bush using a form of what amounts to psychological torture with no physical harm done?

Nearly every other first world nation is worse than us and still you guys are throwing little girl tantrums about waterboarding, simply because Bill Maher told you to hate Bush:rolleyes:


for the record Im not republican and think Bush was a bad president too

By your definition of war criminal-using torture-every leader in the world is currently a war criminal. Come on bozos use your heads, Slobodan Milosevic was a war criminal, Bush was just a dumbass politician
I am not a citizen of those countries, so those actions were not done in my name. how is pointing this out throwing a "***** fit"?

[blondie]

I am not a citizen of those countries, so those actions were not done in my name. how is pointing this out throwing a "***** fit"?
Why throw a tantrum when we treat our prisoners better than basically every other developed nation in the world besides the scandanavians? You just want something to complain and whine about, like a bitch

[boozehound]

Why throw a tantrum when we treat our prisoners better than basically every other developed nation in the world besides the scandanavians? You just want something to complain and whine about, like a bitch
and this is based on? You act like all other first world nations have oodles of POWs who they torture on a daily basis. Wanna back that up with a single article or stat? of course you dont. And, yes, before the bush admin, the US government (at the very least the DOD) did not use torture in its interrogations.



as usual, you are puffed up and condescending when your opinion is not based on any factual data or reality. I would think that you would learn a little humility after having your strongly held opinions proven to be bunk time and time again on this website.


Now, if you are talking just prisoners in the US? Sure the treatment isnt barbaric. but we do have the highest documented incarceration rate in the world.

[Hawker]

George W. Bush does have a badass ranch. That interview with Sean Hannity was pretty good. He seems at peace with himself and didn't feel the need to trash the current administration.

And I believe he really thought Iraq had WMDs but it ended up being a mistake. I know that's not good enough in a lot of people's minds but I think that's just the reality of it. Not some conspiracy-theory bullshit to get more money out of stocks bought from companies working over there now.

[blondie]

and this is based on? You act like all other first world nations have oodles of POWs who they torture on a daily basis. Wanna back that up with a single article or stat? of course you dont. And, yes, before the bush admin, the US government (at the very least the DOD) did not use torture in its interrogations.



as usual, you are puffed up and condescending when your opinion is not based on any factual data or reality. I would think that you would learn a little humility after having your strongly held opinions proven to be bunk time and time again on this website.


Now, if you are talking just prisoners in the US? Sure the treatment isnt barbaric. but we do have the highest documented incarceration rate in the world.
You are naive and stupid enough to believe that the USA doesn't torture prisoners too?:facepalm

[Eggy]

and this is based on? You act like all other first world nations have oodles of POWs who they torture on a daily basis. Wanna back that up with a single article or stat? of course you dont. And, yes, before the bush admin, the US government (at the very least the DOD) did not use torture in its interrogations.



as usual, you are puffed up and condescending when your opinion is not based on any factual data or reality. I would think that you would learn a little humility after having your strongly held opinions proven to be bunk time and time again on this website.


Now, if you are talking just prisoners in the US? Sure the treatment isnt barbaric. but we do have the highest documented incarceration rate in the world.
lol?

[Sarcastic]

Bush was just a puppet. Cheney ran the whole show.

[IcanzIIravor]

You are naive and stupid enough to believe that the USA doesn't torture prisoners too?:facepalm

We did some things in the war on terror that we didn't have to do. If we didn't do them with the threat of Soviet Russia looming we didn't have to in regards to these rag tag terrorists. If you know anything about the water boarding we did then you know the guys we did it to gave us valuable intel but also gave us a bunch of garbage that sent us on wild goose chases that wasted valuable man power and time too. There are far better methods of extracting intel, but the Bush administration panicked and it led to sloppy work that helped and screwed us at the same time. There is a reason a lot of seasoned experts at extracting intel came out against such methods.

[Riddler]

You are naive and stupid enough to believe that the USA doesn't torture prisoners too?:facepalm

hey I never said that America doesn't torture prisoners... they even torture innocent citizens.

I believe their are certain elements within America that do some real shady $hit.

my only point was that we can never allow torture to be legal.

[blondie]

hey I never said that America doesn't torture prisoners... they even torture innocent citizens.

I believe their are certain elements within America that do some real shady $hit.

my only point was that we can never allow torture to be legal.
torture already is legal....they just word what you're allowed to do to prisoners in a nice way.

[OldSkoolball#52]

Lefs all take a moment and remember how different things were under Bush than they are under Barry!!!

[starface]

It's not biased or misinformation, it's original and 100% fact just like the thread you started. It's not cliche and typical nonsense because were both socially inept and sad people who will never fit in. We're cool and counter-culture


:lol



Bush and his entire foreign policy cabinet have endorsed Joe Biden for President btw.

[rawimpact]

Don't forget, Obama and Biden who are such good guys have killed and separated more kids from their families with drone strikes than the Trump-Pence administration. Lets not forget.

[Axe]

Yeah these warmongers are horrible people.

[Nanners]

Don't forget, Obama and Biden who are such good guys have killed and separated more kids from their families with drone strikes than the Trump-Pence administration. Lets not forget.

Its not about who killed or separated the most kids

When Obama and Biden were killing kids and separating families they did it in a dignified and classy way...