Official Manny Pacquiao vs. Floyd Mayweather Thread

[Lebron23]

http://www.worldcorrespondents.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/mayweather_vs_pacquiao.jpg

http://pacejmiller.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/mayweather-pacquiao.jpg

http://www.fighthubtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Mayweather_vs_Pacquiao_Poster_by_Rzr316.png

http://www.mabangis.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/pacquiao-mayweather-pacquiao-fight.jpg


Arum: "Mayweather vs Pacquiao is Our First Priority"

By Ernest Gabion


The first priority for Top Rank CEO Bob Arum is a fight between welterweights Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather Jr. Arum will start working on that fight in the next couple of weeks. There are two issues that Arum needs to resolve. The first, is whether or not Mayweather is interested in the fight. The second issue is the ongoing legal situation in Las Vegas between Mayweather and the mother of his two children, Josie Harris. Arum wants to make sure the pending assault case will not interfere with a planned fight.

"We, like everyone else in boxing, would like to see him fight Floyd Mayweather next. And we're going to see if we can make that happen. That's our first priority. It only requires Floyd Mayweather's willingness to do the fight, and secondly some take from the Nevada court system, as to when a fight coould take place so we don't get blindsided by a trial or something like that. We are going to work through those issues in the next couple of weeks," Arum said.

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=32828

[iamgine]

Lets not turn the thread into Duckqiao vs Gayweather. :cheers:

Win or lose, this fight will be a great farewell for both.

[Kobe8]

Duckquiao?? Really?? :lol
But Anyways I dont wanna get into it right now lol

Pacquiao vs Mayweather

Mayweather is just another Margarito.. Talk alot of shit in the end Pacquiao makes them look like a japanese dude..

[GOBB]

Duckquiao?? Really?? :lol
But Anyways I dont wanna get into it right now lol

Pacquiao vs Mayweather

Mayweather is just another Margarito.. Talk alot of shit in the end Pacquiao makes them look like a japanese dude..

Margacheato doesnt have nearly the same skills as Floyd Jr. To say that is all Floyd is makes you look incredibly stupid (which you're good at).

[Kobe8]

Margacheato doesnt have nearly the same skills as Floyd Jr. To say that is all Floyd is makes you look incredibly stupid (which you're good at).
Common Sense Dickwad.. Wow like I didnt kno that , get the **** out you fat *****. troll ass mo****a

[Kobe8]

Ohhh yeah and Go eat sum Pork Ribs and call it a day.

[SCREWstonRockets]

Margacheato doesnt have nearly the same skills as Floyd Jr. To say that is all Floyd is makes you look incredibly stupid (which you're good at).

There is no point in arguing with someone that says Mayweather is "just another Margarito". You're just wasting your time.

[Da KO King]

Fight will never happen because Mayweather is not a guy who takes chances. Mayweather knows Pacquiao could realistically beat him and thats not a risk Mayweather will take.

[Lebron23]

Mayweather needs to fight Pacquiao next year. Pacman vs. Pretty Boy would be the biggest fight in the last 25 years. Mayweather needs to understand that even if somehow loses this fight, he's still a winner in the eyes of of the boxing fans. Same with Manny Pacquiao.

Every boxing fans wants to see a Pacquiao-Mayweather trilogy.

[Jr Llaban]

Ohhh yeah and Go eat sum Pork Ribs and call it a day.
Not to be rude, but how old are you?

Anyways, as a fan of Pacquiao and all sports, i hope this goes through. Even though Mayweather and Pacquiao both have many haters, people wish they could see this match every time one of them gets mentioned.

[magic chiongson]

aint happening, as much as i want it to.

[DeronMillsap]

Duckquiao doesn't fit for Manny cuz he's not the one who's ducking the fight. :lol

[donald_trump]

hilarious that mayweather gets the ducking nick names when it was pacquiao who didnt want to take a blood test because it made him weak... give me a break... and then he accepts exactly when mayweather already announced he wanted to take a break. once again, convenient much?

surprise surprise its pacs camp who says they were organizing the fight where as mayweathers denied. just another boost for them in the publics eyes and they knew everyone would fall for it. i believe a few sources even said they lied after reporting that there were talks going on. lol. enough proof? clearly not for pac fans. they'll believe anything put out by their camp.

[DeronMillsap]

hilarious that mayweather gets the ducking nick names when it was pacquiao who didnt want to take a blood test because it made him weak... give me a break... and then he accepts exactly when mayweather already announced he wanted to take a break. once again, convenient much?

surprise surprise its pacs camp who says they were organizing the fight where as mayweathers denied. just another boost for them in the publics eyes and they knew everyone would fall for it. i believe a few sources even said they lied after reporting that there were talks going on. lol. enough proof? clearly not for pac fans. they'll believe anything put out by their camp.

Who died and made Mayweather the ruler of boxing committee and policies?

There's no pre-fight blood testing policy in boxing. From what I know, there was/is only post-fight testing.

Why didn't Mayweather came up with the idea for it earlier in his career....?

[donald_trump]

Who died and made Mayweather the ruler of boxing committee and policies?

There's no pre-fight blood testing policy in boxing. From what I know, there was/is only post-fight testing.

Why didn't Mayweather came up with the idea for it earlier in his career....?

those are called negotiations... who made pac the ruler of boxing committee and policies when he demanded i believe a million, or half a million for each pound mayweather came in over the weight.

but yeah, a blood test is far more ridiculous. IT MAKES HIM WEAK!

if that makes him weak, he wouldnt be in professional sports and dominating. the fact that such a weak excuse was used makes me think something is up with pac.

[Sarcastic]

For $30 million, I would take the blood test. It's not like he would be the only one to take the test. Mayweather would take it too, so however weaker Pacquiao thinks it would make him, logically it would make Mayweather that much weaker too :confusedshrug:

[DeronMillsap]

those are called negotiations... who made pac the ruler of boxing committee and policies when he demanded i believe a million, or half a million for each pound mayweather came in over the weight.

but yeah, a blood test is far more ridiculous. IT MAKES HIM WEAK!

if that makes him weak, he wouldnt be in professional sports and dominating. the fact that such a weak excuse was used makes me think something is up with pac.

A weak excuse? Have you done blood work before? It takes about a day or two for me to recover. For a boxer who has to follow a routine training schedule, it could mess his practice and conditioning schedule. Mayweather could suffer the same fatigue as well but both don't have the same body.

From what I recall, Pacman didn't want to do it within a week of the fight. Which is reasonable. That was his issue. He didn;t want to do it if it's too close to the day of the fight. He was willing to do it 2-3 weeks ahead.

Mayweather and Mosley had their blood taken 2-3 weeks ahead of their fight. Pacquiao could do the same way if Mayweather is scared to fight.

[DeronMillsap]

They should do randomly three times(within 3-4months), with the last testing being 10-15 days before the day of the fight. That should be fair for both parties.

It's not like Pacquiaco have failed any of his drug testing before. So thats my hate on Mayweather, he just suddenly slandered the guy just because he's threaten by him.

[SCREWstonRockets]

Mayweather is so dumb. He threw away $50-100m because he wanted non-standard drug testing. If someone was giving me that much to fight, I'd do everything in my power to get it done, not make it harder.

[PleezeBelieve]

If Arum and Pac want to fight Mayweather so bad then why notagree to his terms?? As far as I know the money is to be split 50/50 so why back out cause of blood-testing?

That's my sole question -- why call out Mayweather's camp after every Pac win if you wo t agree to the blood tests?

Sounds pretty dumb to me. :confusedshrug:

[bdreason]

If Arum and Pac want to fight Mayweather so bad then why notagree to his terms?? As far as I know the money is to be split 50/50 so why back out cause of blood-testing?

That's my sole question -- why call out Mayweather's camp after every Pac win if you wo t agree to the blood tests?

Sounds pretty dumb to me. :confusedshrug:


Manny agreed to the testing, then Floyd flip flopped again. :confusedshrug:

[DonDadda59]

:oldlol:

People will never learn, huh? How long have I been saying the same thing over and over? Oh well, Keep hope alive!

But the drug testing thing is and never was the issue.

[PistonsFan#21]

those are called negotiations... who made pac the ruler of boxing committee and policies when he demanded i believe a million, or half a million for each pound mayweather came in over the weight.

but yeah, a blood test is far more ridiculous. IT MAKES HIM WEAK!

if that makes him weak, he wouldnt be in professional sports and dominating. the fact that such a weak excuse was used makes me think something is up with pac.

He actually asked 10 millions dollars for every pound over the limit.

[gts]

If Arum and Pac want to fight Mayweather so bad then why notagree to his terms?? As far as I know the money is to be split 50/50 so why back out cause of blood-testing?

That's my sole question -- why call out Mayweather's camp after every Pac win if you wo t agree to the blood tests?

Sounds pretty dumb to me. :confusedshrug:they did agree to blood tests

but ask yourself why demand something that isn't even part of the norm in boxing? why put up barriers for pacquiao's camp to negotiate?

i realize it's a ploy by the mayweather camp to get some meaningless mental edge but if that's what mayweather is reduced to....

if mayweather is as good as he thinks he is he'll negotiate with a mind to getting the fight going not trying to block it by placing silly demands on it

[New York Knicks]

For $30 million, I would take the blood test. It's not like he would be the only one to take the test. Mayweather would take it too, so however weaker Pacquiao thinks it would make him, logically it would make Mayweather that much weaker too :confusedshrug:
The first time around a mediator decided to set the cutoff at 24 days for testing. Floyd naturally declined. A year later Manny gave in and said he'd agree to a 14-day cutoff (which is what Mayweather said he'd agree too the year prior). Mayweather then argued about the purse split and wanted more than 50%. Mayweather then stalled some more and said he was on vacation and not looking to talk about fights.

[New York Knicks]

they did agree to blood tests

but ask yourself why demand something that isn't even part of the norm in boxing? why put up barriers for pacquiao's camp to negotiate?

i realize it's a ploy by the mayweather camp to get some meaningless mental edge but if that's what mayweather is reduced to....

if mayweather is as good as he thinks he is he'll negotiate with a mind to getting the fight going not trying to block it by placing silly demands on it
Exactly. This is all it is. Mayweather wants to gain some kind of psychological advantage or his ego is just so enormous that he wants to set outrageous terms that his opponent has to agree to just to satisfy his ego. He wants to always feel like the boss and he wants everyone else to kneel and pray to him like he's a god. I don't think this fight happens tbh until Mayweather goes broke again. I bet he'll challenge Manny 5 years from now after Manny retires and is running for president or something. Mayweather will always ask for something outrageous because the answer he's looking for is no. He doesn't want to fight him. That's clear at this point. In his mind, he has everything to lose and nothing to gain. And that's probably true. At this point, a lot of people still think he's the best despite Manny thoroughly dominating his opponents the last few years. But there's still that cloud of doubt because Floyd is undefeated. And that's the way he wants to keep it. If he wins, oh well, he's #1, a lot of people have him up there anyway. But if he loses, I don't know if he can handle the embarrassment. Everything he is and how he goes about himself is based on his untarnished record. He'll lose respect. And I guess for some people, you can't put a price on it.

[markymark]

If Arum and Pac want to fight Mayweather so bad then why notagree to his terms?? As far as I know the money is to be split 50/50 so why back out cause of blood-testing?

That's my sole question -- why call out Mayweather's camp after every Pac win if you wo t agree to the blood tests?

Sounds pretty dumb to me. :confusedshrug:

he agreed. your boy then put up another barrier - demanded more than 50% of the purse. f*ckin ridic. at this point, pac deserves at LEAST 60%.

[RedBlackAttack]

Mayweather and Mosley had their blood taken 2-3 weeks ahead of their fight. Pacquiao could do the same way if Mayweather is scared to fight.
You are missing the point. Mosley agreed to a RANDOM Olympic-style blood test. That is what Floyd is lobbying for.

If you are told, "the test will be 2-3 weeks before the fight," it ceases to be random.

When Floyd and Shane were actually tested is completely beside the point. The point is that it could have been three days before the fight if the test-givers had requested it.

No one is saying that Manny will have to take a test the day before a fight. No one is saying that he takes a test a week before the fight... Or two weeks.

What Floyd wants is a truly RANDOM test that could be given (or not be given) at any point leading up to the fight. If you know when the tests are administered, it completely defeats the purpose.

[RedBlackAttack]

he agreed. your boy then put up another barrier - demanded more than 50% of the purse. f*ckin ridic. at this point, pac deserves at LEAST 60%.
Why does Pac deserve 60% of the purse? That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. :oldlol:

With his last four fights, Floyd has been the most lucrative draw in PPV boxing history.

And, Manny never agreed to Olympic-style bloodtesting. When did this happen?

[DonDadda59]

With his last four fights, Floyd has been the most lucrative draw in PPV boxing history.

DLH was the A side of their fight and after that Tyson and maybe Oscar himself have him beat on average.


And, Manny never agreed to Olympic-style bloodtesting. When did this happen?

Both Manny and Roach have said many times on camera and print (including just last week) that they agreed to any test any time, whatever Floyd wanted. I can dig them up if you're not willing to search.

[RedBlackAttack]

DLH was the A side of their fight and after that Tyson and maybe Oscar himself have him beat on average.
There has never been a four-fight run like the one Floyd is currently on. In fact, no fighter in history has ever had this kind of run of consecutive PPV bouts with over a million purchases.

Regardless of what people say about Pacquiao being more fun to watch and Floyd being 'boring,' when it comes to throw down money for a fight, the American public has shown that it will shell out the $55-$65 in huge numbers to see Floyd.

You can say that DLH and Tyson were bigger draws, but the numbers don't support it. Neither of those guys ever had a string of PPV draws like the one Floyd is currently on. In fact, they never had even close to this. Take a look at the numbers. It is pretty astounding.


Both Manny and Roach have said many times on camera and print (including just last week) that they agreed to any test any time, whatever Floyd wanted. I can dig them up if you're not willing to search.

Oh... Have they 'said' that they will agree to any terms? I'm sure they probably did. I was talking about an actual agreement during negotiations, which is all that counts.

[ErhnamDjinn]

It doesnt matter whatever camps says what, Manny agree's to fight Mayweather, plus as people have said countless times why request soemthing that isnt even required, it so friggin obvious he's afraid to tarnish his clean record, if he was so confident in his skills he wouldnt be afraid to put out. Plus on paper it really is Floyd who is more skilled "The real Boxer" per se so why chicken out on a fight that will earn yung at least 40mil

[praneel]

Both dudes are at the top of the game, dominating their weight classes for years, and similar size. A fight like this with these types of fighters comes what, once in every 20-25 years? Both guys extremely popular and people are chomping at the bit to see this showdown.

At first, I was thinking all these "negotiations" and then the deals falling through was just a ploy to get more money for both fighters. But now its been so long that I am scared it is more than that.

Maybe Floyd wants to remain undefeated? Because he is the one dragging out this potential fight. Maybe Pac is doping? I agree that he should not have to submit to these tests if they are not required by boxing. Fernando Vargas got caught doping when he fought De La Hoya?

Margarito did exactly what Clottey did with he fought Pacman, waited and waited and waited. I was screaming at Clottey to let his hands go, but after seeing Margarito, who is known for throwing all day, I began to think, maybe it's the speed of Pac? Because its either that, or Margarito was scared to get hit flush while extended. And Margarito aint afraid to get hit.

[DonDadda59]

There has never been a four-fight run like the one Floyd is currently on. In fact, no fighter in history has ever had this kind of run of consecutive PPV bouts with over a million purchases.

Regardless of what people say about Pacquiao being more fun to watch and Floyd being 'boring,' when it comes to throw down money for a fight, the American public has shown that it will shell out the $55-$65 in huge numbers to see Floyd.

You can say that DLH and Tyson were bigger draws, but the numbers don't support it. Neither of those guys ever had a string of PPV draws like the one Floyd is currently on. In fact, they never had even close to this. Take a look at the numbers. It is pretty astounding.

Yeah... no.

Mike Tyson PPV Numbers
Evander Holyfield 2: 1.99 million
Lennox Lewis: 1.8 million
Evander Holyfield 1: 1.59 million
Peter McNeely: 1.55 million
Frank Bruno 2: 1.37 million
Razor Ruddock 2: 1.25 million
Bruce Selden: 1.01 million
Razor Ruddock 1: 959,000

And this was all before 24/7, the internet, etc. Just look at some of the names on that list. Razor Ruddock... Peter McNeely? Not even close.




Oh... Have they 'said' that they will agree to any terms? I'm sure they probably did. I was talking about an actual agreement during negotiations, which is all that counts.

Drug Testing No Longer an Issue (http://www.examiner.com/boxing-in-national/drug-testing-no-longer-issue-for-mayweather-pacquiao-super-fight)


"I agreed to take a test anytime, any day"
http://www.pacquiaovideo.com/2010/09/pacquiao-vs-margarito-new-york-press.html

Pacquiao USA Today, Starting at 1:50 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tn4LOact-Vo)

Freddie Roach on the subject (at 4 min) (http://www.mlive.com/mayweather/index.ssf/2010/11/freddie_roach_manny_pacquiao_f.html)

From an ISH favorite, last week:

JENNA: Freddie I have just a couple of more questions before I let you off the line. You mentioned Mayweather a couple of times on this show, and I know you have Margarito as the main priority on your radar, but when you look at Manny do you think he at all needs a win over Floyd Mayweather before he retires?

ROACH: No, you know with Floyd, the first time negotiations went sour because the blood testing and so forth. The second time around we agreed to everything. We gave him every opportunity to fight us. We agreed to everything he asked. You know what, Manny Pacquiao

[RedBlackAttack]

It doesnt matter whatever camps says what,
You're right... It doesn't matter... Because each camp is out to make their guy look good. I've said from the beginning of this thing that it was all about egos and power-plays and nothing to do with anyone being 'scared' or cheating. Both of these guys have massive egos (as do the people running things for them) and that has hindered negotiations more than anything else.


plus as people have said countless times why request soemthing that isnt even required,
Why did Manny's camp insist (and Mayweather agree to) giving up $10 million for each pound that PBF was over the limit? That kind of absurd rule isn't in the book, nor has any penalty like that ever been established in any fight in the history of boxing.

There is a lot more to negotiations than what you are implying. It isn't like the guys just sign on the dotted line and that is that. Hell... Pacquiao has been one of the toughest hombres in the sport when it comes to negotiating a fight.

I just think that Floyd was of the mind that he didn't want to get bullied at the negotiating table and he probably also felt that the penalty for being over was a not-so-subtle slap at his win over Marquez, so he thought he would return the favor and insult Pacquiao with the random drug test thing. When Pac was so stern about not taking a test up to three weeks before a fight, it began stoking the fire and things got out of control after that.

It should be noted that Shane agreed to Floyd's terms without thinking twice and guys like Cotto and Malinaggi have gone public with their astonishment of Manny's refusal to agree to random tests.

The rest of the boxing world doesn't seem to think that this was an outlandish proposition, especially when factoring in the money that was on the table.

[praneel]

Regardless of what people say about Pacquiao being more fun to watch and Floyd being 'boring,' when it comes to throw down money for a fight, the American public has shown that it will shell out the $55-$65 in huge numbers to see Floyd.



Floyd being boring? People who say that want to go watch those weak ass heavyweights nowadays. You are right, Floyd is a great draw. He fought Shane Mosley after he came back from the dead and still killed it in terms of PPV viewings.

Floyd to me is more of a counter-puncher. He waits til a mistake and them jumps on it in an instant. That is boxing. The goal is to avoid getting hit. I love watching him work.

Pac is more of a fighter. You saw it in the Margarito fight. He was winning all rounds, later in the fight if Margarito got a rally, Pac came right back even if he was winning the round. He is the throwback type figher, bruiser type dude. So fast I can't keep up with the flurries.

[RedBlackAttack]

Yeah... no.

Mike Tyson PPV Numbers
Evander Holyfield 2: 1.99 million
Lennox Lewis: 1.8 million
Evander Holyfield 1: 1.59 million
Peter McNeely: 1.55 million
Frank Bruno 2: 1.37 million
Razor Ruddock 2: 1.25 million
Bruce Selden: 1.01 million
Razor Ruddock 1: 959,000

And this was all before 24/7, the internet, etc. Just look at some of the names on that list. Razor Ruddock... Peter McNeely? Not even close.
Those weren't consecutive... And McNeely was an event because it was his first fight out of prison. It isn't like he just happened to fight McNeely in the middle of a great PPV run. I made it a point to say CONSECUTIVE PPV results.... an important asterisk.

After McNeely, he fought Buster Mathis Jr. and there were plenty of fights in between Lewis-Tyson and Holyfield-Tyson.

I guess you could do Bruno into Seldon into Holyfield I into Holyfield II. But, it is arguable if that four-fight run is as good as Mayweather's current one.

PBF-DLH - 2.4 million
PBF-Hatton - 1.5+ million
PBF-JMM - 1+ million
PBF-Mosley - 1.4 million

Total - 6.2+ million buys

Tyson's four-fight run came out to 5.96 million buys. We can sit here and argue about what advantages fighters today have with promotional tools on television and Internet, but the fact remains that no fighter in history has had THIS lucrative of a four-fight run. That is just a fact.

That was all I said. You did find a run that surpassed a million in four straight fights and good work on that. However, unless you can find a run that is >6.2 million, the point stands. I don't believe there is one.

[DonDadda59]

Mayweather-Hatton did 920K, where are you getting 1.5 million from?

[branslowski]

It's simple.

I wish this fight could happen. But Floyd is being a little b!tch.

Thread/

[1987_Lakers]

God I want this fight to happen soooo bad. Too bad Mayweather is a coward.

[RedBlackAttack]

Mayweather-Hatton did 920K, where are you getting 1.5 million from?
The stateside buyrate was 850k. There was also a UK PPV set up by HBO as well, though. The figure that I read was a little over 1.5 million, all told. I'm having a difficult time locating that, though, so I guess I will just lower it to a million just to be on the safe side.

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=11766

I think I heard the 1.5+ million number on maxboxing... Can't locate it.

Even then, you are talking about 5.8 million buys in four fights. That is still something that has only been matched by Mike Tyson in his post-prison comeback.

Regardless of whether the number is 5.8 million or 6.3 million or whatever, it doesn't detract from my original point.... Mayweather has been a ridiculous success in terms of PPV sales. He is certainly the most lucrative current fighter in terms of generating interest and bringing in PPV sales. The numbers tell you that. It isn't like Pacquiao is miles away, but there is a difference and it has been clear in the last handful of fights.

We will see what the Pac-Margs bout brings back, but for someone to say that Pacquiao should get 60% of the purse (which is what started all of this) is beyond ludicrous... I'm sure you would agree.

[rezznor]

Kobe > Lebron....wait..wrong thread? :D

[gts]

God I want this fight to happen soooo bad. Too bad Mayweather is a coward.Everyone does except the mayweather camp...

Pacquiao's destruction of margarito was so brutal i don't think floyd is clammoring to get in the ring with him..
TBH i doubt this fight ever takes place...

[gts]

for what it's worth
[QUOTE]HOLLYWOOD

[lefthook00]

De La Hoya pretty much made Mayweather, in terms of popularity and PPV buys. Before that, Floyd was nothing when it came to PPV buys. Floyd played the sh*t talker card very well though. After that, people have been tuning in to watch Floyd lose that "0" on his record.

Regardless, a May/Pac fight would do better numbers than either could ever hope for by fighting someone else.

[TheSituation]

Mayweather is like Fedor with the same type fanboys. both more about the money and scared to lose. fgts.

[FashionIssues]

this fight will happen. and it's next for both. we will see this soon. all stipulations will be worked out. i just have a feeling.

[DonDadda59]

this fight will happen. and it's next for both. we will see this soon. all stipulations will be worked out. i just have a feeling.

Damn, that took no time at all...


Mayweather Accused of Battering Security Guard

Cops rolled over to Floyd Mayweather's Las Vegas home tonight after a private security guard claimed the championship boxer poked him in the face during an incident in Floyd's gated community ... TMZ has learned.



Law enforcement sources tell us ... a private security guard who was patrolling inside Floyd's gated community drove up to Floyd's house a few hours ago to confront the boxer about a parking situation.

We're told the security guard rolled down his window to talk to Floyd ... and that's when Floyd allegedly unleashed his finger -- striking the dude in the face.

Cops were called to the scene and knocked on Floyd's door -- but we're told the boxer refused to open up.

We're told since Floyd was only suspected of a misdemeanor battery -- and because the alleged incident didn't take place in front of a police officer -- cops merely took a report and did not make an arrest.

Law enforcement sources tell us cops plan to turn the case over to the D.A., who will decide whether or not to press charges.

http://www.tmz.com/2010/11/15/floyd-mayweather-jr-accused-battery-security-guard-poked-eye-las-vegas/


http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2010-07-23-floydmayweather.jpg

That finger should be classified as a lethal weapon :oldlol:

[Zombles]

what is wrong with Floyd, why the hell did he retire after the Hatton fight, why is he self-destructing with this idiotic behavior while not doing what it takes to make the greatest fight of our generation happen.

He's got to be one of the best technical boxers in history but you get the sense he's pissing it away, that he'll never be what he could've been.

[xcesswee]

Lol that security guard is trying to get riiiich

[RedBlackAttack]

Damn, that took no time at all...



http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2010-07-23-floydmayweather.jpg

That finger should be classified as a lethal weapon :oldlol:
There is never a dull moment in the life of Mayweather. :oldlol:

It is relatively obvious just skimming the story that this security guy is thinking dollar signs, but Floyd puts himself in horrible situation after horrible situation. I actually think he is one of those guys that can't live without drama. He needs it in his life.

[Lebron23]

Floyd is self destructing. He needs to hire a good anger management therapist.

:D :D :D

[Dilly]

Mayweather will fight anyone, any man, women or child expect for Pacquiao.

[RedBlackAttack]

Floyd is self destructing. He needs to hire a good anger management therapist.

:D :D :D
It's nothing new. Floyd has literally always carried some issues -- either trouble with the law or family feuding -- with him into the ring. In fact, most of his best performances came with things seemingly completely out-of-control in his life.

He is just one of those guys that seems to relish drama.

[Lebron23]

It's nothing new. Floyd has literally always carried some issues -- either trouble with the law or family feuding -- with him into the ring. In fact, most of his best performances came with things seemingly completely out-of-control in his life.

He is just one of those guys that seems to relish drama.

Floyd needs to control his temper. He's a very popular and powerful individual that's why many people will try to blackmail him. That's why It's hard to be a celebrity nowadays.

"With great power comes great responsibility." Floyd should follow Spiderman's famous quote.

PS

I really hated Harvey Levin of TMZ. He reminded me of the Trolls in the Main NBA Forum.

[donald_trump]

you pacquiao fans are intolerable.

somehow mayweathers claims were soo crazy because he wanted random testing that made the sport fair. though manny's $10 million for every pound over was perfectly fine... you people are blind homers.

the offer was all on the table. fact is, mayweather asked for a lot more, though in the end settled for all of manny's requests. even the $10 million for each pound over, and things such as glove size.
when the talks were going on, pac was the one that denied the contract because of the testing at the time. now mayweather isn't fighting/doesn't want to, whatever it may be. manny had his chance, though bitched out. the offer was presented, and he didn't take it. floyd is allowed to retire whenever he wants. he wanted the fight at the time, though he's semi retired/not fighting anymore.
where am i wrong in this? how is floyd the one being called a ducker?

[magic chiongson]

you pacquiao fans are intolerable.

somehow mayweathers claims were soo crazy because he wanted random testing that made the sport fair. though manny's $10 million for every pound over was perfectly fine... you people are blind homers.

the offer was all on the table. fact is, mayweather asked for a lot more, though in the end settled for all of manny's requests. even the $10 million for each pound over, and things such as glove size.
when the talks were going on, pac was the one that denied the contract because of the testing at the time. now mayweather isn't fighting/doesn't want to, whatever it may be. manny had his chance, though bitched out. the offer was presented, and he didn't take it. floyd is allowed to retire whenever he wants. he wanted the fight at the time, though he's semi retired/not fighting anymore.
where am i wrong in this? how is floyd the one being called a ducker?

mayweather is known to cheat at the scales, he paid over $200k in that catchweight fight with marquez for excess weight (146), in a fight against a man who has previously fought over 130 twice.

pac has never tested positive for drugs, and blood testing has never been a part of commission rules

it was $1M per pound, not $10M. he has agreed to pay a fine for going overweight before.

get your facts straight kid

[SCREWstonRockets]

Floyd just needs to stay active and fight because all this free time is getting him into trouble. At least do it for his own fans that made him into "Money" Mayweather. I'm sure his fans rather see him fight more than once a year

[L.Kizzle]

Manny should have called his ass out live during the interview after the fight, instead of being all politically correct.

[donald_trump]

mayweather is known to cheat at the scales, he paid over $200k in that catchweight fight with marquez for excess weight (146), in a fight against a man who has previously fought over 130 twice.

pac has never tested positive for drugs, and blood testing has never been a part of commission rules

it was $1M per pound, not $10M. he has agreed to pay a fine for going overweight before.

get your facts straight kid

learn what youre talking about. it was $10M.
type it into google. whole page full of links.

that is unheard of. he clearly wanted a way out of the fight, and yet floyd agreed to it. LOL. then he backed out with his drug test excuse.

its easy to talk now when floyd announced he wont be fighting now or in the near future possibly because you can look like the one who wants to go on with it. fact is, floyd gave him a shot. take a simple random drug test. he couldnt do it, yet mayweather met his even more ridiculous demands. can you imagine if floyd did come to the weigh in 6 pounds overweight? there goes his whole purse for the fight, yet he agreed.
manny couldn't even let them take a tiny amount of blood, which is no where near as much as when you get blood tested for medical reasons. so no, this amount will not significantly impact the fighter to the point that someone can cite 'it makes me weak' as an excuse.

so yeah, he can talk now that floyd is done and has other problems to deal with, though when it was there to go, he was the one who said no, while floyd was agreeing. so please. explain, where is he ducking in all this? logically explain to me how floyd ducked manny. floyd was good to go, and manny backed out. there were no talks after that, and now manny is trying to look like the peoples champ by spouting shit and saying he is good to go when the fact is he was cowering at the thought of fighting floyd when the opportunity presented itself.

you're not the champion when you're too scared to fight the best.

[gts]

mayweather is known to cheat at the scales, he paid over $200k in that catchweight fight with marquez for excess weight (146), in a fight against a man who has previously fought over 130 twice.

pac has never tested positive for drugs, and blood testing has never been a part of commission rules

it was $1M per pound, not $10M. he has agreed to pay a fine for going overweight before.

get your facts straight kidit was 10 mill per pound but the reason they asked for so much is because at 1 million per pound they know mayweather would happily pay a few mill to be overweight...

[SCREWstonRockets]

I'm getting sick of seeing fans discuss buyrate, drawing power, how much money they should get, ect. This is how you know boxing is dead. Fans shouldn't be discussing the business side of boxing. What does it do for us besides makes us argue? Do we get a cut out of Manny or Floyd's check? Are they cutting us deals on the PPV price? When are they going to give back to the fans that made them PPV darlings?

Not one man is at fault here. Both of these divas need to get something worked out to give the fans what we want. It is both their faults that the modern day Ali-Fraizer has yet to happen.

[DonDadda59]

Latest on the fantasy fight:

From Jenna J's Show- Episode 100, Part II (Starting at 83 min) (http://www.blogtalkradio.com/on-the-ropes)

Some highlights:

The drug testing b.s. being settled the second time around, Floyd Sr. now demands that in addition to the previous blood testing demands, Pacquiao must consent to having members of Mayweather's camp visit him during training to observe him at any time.

"I tell my son not to fight him... I have my reason why i don't want him to fight that man"

"My son if he fights that little man, I'm concerned for my sons life"

"I can't believe Pac took out Hatton in two while my son took him out in 10 rounds."

"Pac has missiles on his hands, and if he hits you... you're going down!"

http://www.pacquiaovsmargarito.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/20100901pacmar001.jpg

"If he dies... he dies"

Looking like Mosley and Berto are in the lead to fight Pac next, with Marquez being another possibility. Arum is playing the race card and giving into the whole 'Pac has never fought an African-American' and giving us a senior citizen abuse display. Pacquiao-Mosley next Spring :facepalm

[Kobe8]

Floyd = Pred Missile , Harrier and Nuke
Pacquiao = UAV ,Pred Missile and Pavelow
:lol

Margarito = Martyrdom

Man I've been playin too much Mw2.

[ErhnamDjinn]

wow... thats like having a pro sports team sending someone to watch the other team's practise

lol cmon now :facepalm
for real, if this statement is true thats the most asinine request ever, if true again its obvious the other side is ducking. Whats next I want to know whats Fredie Roaches gameplan is, print me a fax/email it in Adobe PDF format?

[sunsfan1357]

Fight isn't happening because Manny is obviously afraid of black fighters:


"Floyd Mayweather would beat Manny Pacquiao because the styles that African-American fighters -- and I mean, black fighters from the streets or the inner cities -- would be successful," said Hopkins, according to Fanhouse.com. "I think Floyd Mayweather would pot-shot Pacquiao and bust him up in between the four-to-five punches that Pacquiao throws and then set him up later on down the line."

Pacquaio fought and defeated Joshua Clottey of Ghana earlier this year, but Hopkins discounted that win, saying "Clottey is 'black,' but not a 'black boxer' from the states with a slick style."

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=5820908

[rezznor]

Latest on the fantasy fight:

From Jenna J's Show- Episode 100, Part II (Starting at 83 min) (http://www.blogtalkradio.com/on-the-ropes)

Some highlights:

The drug testing b.s. being settled the second time around, Floyd Sr. now demands that in addition to the previous blood testing demands, Pacquiao must consent to having members of Mayweather's camp visit him during training to observe him at any time.

"I tell my son not to fight him... I have my reason why i don't want him to fight that man"

"My son if he fights that little man, I'm concerned for my sons life"

"I can't believe Pac took out Hatton in two while my son took him out in 10 rounds."

"Pac has missiles on his hands, and if he hits you... you're going down!"

http://www.pacquiaovsmargarito.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/20100901pacmar001.jpg

"If he dies... he dies"

Looking like Mosley and Berto are in the lead to fight Pac next, with Marquez being another possibility. Arum is playing the race card and giving into the whole 'Pac has never fought an African-American' and giving us a senior citizen abuse display. Pacquiao-Mosley next Spring :facepalm


i'm going to have to take your word for it. i tried listening to the interview but i couldn't take it anymore. It hurt my brain trying to figure out wth Sr. was rambling out. Dude always sounds like he is a stumbling, slurring drunk.

I've come across crazy ass bums that sound just like this guy.

[DonDadda59]

Fight isn't happening because Manny is obviously afraid of black fighters:



http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=5820908

:oldlol:

The excuses are really getting thin these days, huh?

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/260233/88500908.jpg

http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/43682278.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_kp2FrgCoRfs/RyPv8PJX1AI/AAAAAAAAAzA/ZFGmgVTXF0I/s400/pacquiao-jorge-julio.jpg

But Arum is playing into the race card excuse now and he's talking Mosley and Berto for Pac. Ridiculous :facepalm

[Tarik One]

I remember after Floyd beat Marquez people were starting to retract their belief that Manny would just run rampant on Floyd if they fought. Then Manny faced Cotto and Clottey and that instilled the same enthusiasm in his fans until Floyd beat up Mosley whom many felt both Manny and Floyd were ducking. Then Manny faced the guy who Floyd has been given the most flack for not fighting in Antonio Margarito, and Manny has looked great, but does anyone think that Floyd wouldn't have pitched an absolute shut out against a guy as ordinary in skill as Antonio?

To me Manny has been hand fed the same makeup of opponent since moving up in weight. They have given him guys who allow Manny to make the most of his style and his speed. Diaz, ODLH(weight-drained), Hatton, Cotto, CLottey, and Margarito are all guys who come forward, and with the exception of a younger Oscar and Clottey they are all easy to hit. I will be the first to give Manny credit for looking absolutely amazing and being so tireless in training so that he could give the kind of performances he did, but these were all guys right there in front of him, and when anyone stands just right there in front of Manny they are going to lose.

Manny was basically given a punching bag that followed him around, and nobody looks faster or better on a heavybag than Manny Pacquiao. Go back and watch Pacquiao-marquez II and see Marquez either beat Manny to the punch with his right hand or take a step back to get just out of range of Manny's attack. This is from a guy who isn't even a particularly good defensive fighter, but he had a antidote to Manny's offense that looked so relentless against Morales two fights earlier, and watch Barrera go against Manny the second time. Or Jorge Solis, watch how that movement took away Manny's punch output.

[iamgine]

Logically, a guy like Margarito who was 15 lbs heavier, taller, has more range and relentless in the ring trading blows should pose some challenge but Manny just casually destroyed him. I think his win was very impressive.

[Reef]

Looking like Mosley and Berto are in the lead to fight Pac next, with Marquez being another possibility. Arum is playing the race card and giving into the whole 'Pac has never fought an African-American' and giving us a senior citizen abuse display. Pacquiao-Mosley next Spring :facepalm

I have no interest in a Mosley or Marquez fight. Mosley is washed up and already dominated by Floyd, and Marquez would get destroyed if the fight was at 147. Berto, although he has hasn't faced great competition, is at least in his prime and undefeated. I'd go with that or possibly Paul Williams.

[DonDadda59]

Logically, a guy like Margarito who was 15 lbs heavier, taller, has more range and relentless in the ring trading blows should pose some challenge but Manny just casually destroyed him. I think his win was very impressive.

And people forget it was with 8 oz Cleto Reyes gloves, which in the hands of a 165-lber can do serious damage like we saw in round 6.


I have no interest in a Mosley or Marquez fight. Mosley is washed up and already dominated by Floyd, and Marquez would get destroyed if the fight was at 147. Berto, although he has hasn't faced great competition, is at least in his prime and undefeated. I'd go with that or possibly Paul Williams.

I agree that Mosley is done, but at least he has the resume that warrants a retirement fund beating. Berto's record is all fluff and he's been inactive, priced himself out of a Mosley fight, and used his Haymon connection to hold up HBO for almost $2 million to fight some guy. Paul Williams, if he's not destroyed by Sergio, would be ideal for Pac at 147 or 155, but Arum doesn't seemed to thrilled about matching the 5'6" Pacquiao against the 6'2" tall w/ 82" reach Williams... but I think Manny beats Paul easier than he did Tony, but that's just my opinion.

[RedBlackAttack]

A Paul Williams-Pacquiao fight would NOT be competitive, in my estimation. It would be the same fight as Margarito. A guy who comes forward, tries to swarm you with punches, doesn't have a defensive gameplan to speak of and doesn't hit particularly hard... That is a recipe for disaster against Manny.

I want to see him fight a pure boxer... A guy who actually knows how to control the distance and work away from Manny's attacks. Please, no more brawlers and high-punch output guys. It is getting redundant.

[Reef]

A Paul Williams-Pacquiao fight would NOT be competitive, in my estimation. It would be the same fight as Margarito. A guy who comes forward, tries to swarm you with punches, doesn't have a defensive gameplan to speak of and doesn't hit particularly hard... That is a recipe for disaster against Manny.

I want to see him fight a pure boxer... A guy who actually knows how to control the distance and work away from Manny's attacks. Please, no more brawlers and high-punch output guys. It is getting redundant.

Besides Floyd and Sergio Martinez (who I think is too big and would beat Pac, and will beat Paul Williams this weekend), who else is there? Shane's not really a pure boxer, so I guess Pac would have to fight one of the 140'ers, but then they won't bring in much money.

[Tarik One]

I want to see him fight a pure boxer... A guy who actually knows how to control the distance and work away from Manny's attacks. Please, no more brawlers and high-punch output guys. It is getting redundant.

That's the whole point. These types are the perfect breed to make Manny look invincible. Those Margarito, Mayorga (even though he never fought him) types. However, the one guy actually of all of them that was IMO the most impressive win for Manny was against Hatton, because he actually has fast footwork and he uses angles coming in, but he couldn't overcome those huge mistakes that he makes against southpaws in particular, and Manny was the absolutely antithesis of the type of guy hatton could get away with those mistakes again. But these guys made Manny look like a non-stop punching machine with power, counter punching ability, a great chin, and great footwork. There is absolutely no way Manny will be able to execute those multiple combinations on Floyd without catching leather.

You look at some of the fighters whom Pac fought against who actually had some good skill and fight discipline such as JMM and Morales and Pac was reduced. Take that into consideration, how do you propose he'll handle Floyd who is a much sharper, smarter and technically sound fighter.

[RedBlackAttack]

Besides Floyd and Sergio Martinez (who I think is too big and would beat Pac, and will beat Paul Williams this weekend), who else is there? Shane's not really a pure boxer, so I guess Pac would have to fight one of the 140'ers, but then they won't bring in much money.

Honestly? I know it isn't the most popular response, but I would much rather see Manny fight JMM for a 3rd time (preferably at 140) than I would see him go against someone like Paul Williams or even Shane Mosley (I would rather see SSM than PWill, for the record).

Marquez may or may not be over the hill. I really haven't made my mind up on that yet. However, his style doesn't necessarily dictate that he be in absolute top-flight condition to give Pac fits. Marquez has always been more about technique than amazing talent. He understands Pacquiao and what he needs to do to beat him.

I have little doubt that, if that fight came off, Marquez would out-box Manny for the majority of the fight... Even now. The question is the same as it was the last time they fought two years ago... Can he avoid Pac's big punch and not fall into those 2-point rounds? He hasn't proven he can avoid them yet, but at least it would be an interesting matchup.

Floyd, Sergio or JMM.... One of those three and I will be genuinely excited. Anyone else and especially someone like Williams? No bueno.

[Reef]

That's the whole point. These types are the perfect breed to make Manny look invincible. Those Margarito, Mayorga (even though he never fought him) types. However, the one guy actually of all of them that was IMO the most impressive win for Manny was against Hatton, because he actually has fast footwork and he uses angles coming in, but he couldn't overcome those huge mistakes that he makes against southpaws in particular, and Manny was the absolutely antithesis of the type of guy hatton could get away with those mistakes again. But these guys made Manny look like a non-stop punching machine with power, counter punching ability, a great chin, and great footwork. There is absolutely no way Manny will be able to execute those multiple combinations on Floyd without catching leather.

You look at some of the fighters whom Pac fought against who actually had some good skill and fight discipline such as JMM and Morales and Pac was reduced. Take that into consideration, how do you propose he'll handle Floyd who is a much sharper, smarter and technically sound fighter.

If Floyd doesn't step up to fight or ends up injail, then who else should Pac fight then?

[RedBlackAttack]

That's the whole point. These types are the perfect breed to make Manny look invincible. Those Margarito, Mayorga (even though he never fought him) types. However, the one guy actually of all of them that was IMO the most impressive win for Manny was against Hatton, because he actually has fast footwork and he uses angles coming in, but he couldn't overcome those huge mistakes that he makes against southpaws in particular, and Manny was the absolutely antithesis of the type of guy hatton could get away with those mistakes again. But these guys made Manny look like a non-stop punching machine with power, counter punching ability, a great chin, and great footwork. There is absolutely no way Manny will be able to execute those multiple combinations on Floyd without catching leather.

You look at some of the fighters whom Pac fought against who actually had some good skill and fight discipline such as JMM and Morales and Pac was reduced. Take that into consideration, how do you propose he'll handle Floyd who is a much sharper, smarter and technically sound fighter.

I've been saying that for years. The biggest thing about Floyd and the reason that he is such a difficult fighter for just about anyone is his ability to diagnose a fight as it is happening and being able to control the distance. He finds the range where he can connect with his best stuff and where he either has just enough room to get out of the way or, against a smaller fighter, completely out of the danger zone.

That is what a pure boxer does.

Against Floyd, Pacquiao would have to show that he can adapt to Floyd's ever-changing gameplan and make the moves necessary to counter them. Any time that you are in the ring with Floyd, it is a chess match. Having Roach in his corner is good and he can help point him in the right direction, but, ultimately, it would be up to Pac to figure out a way to counter Floyd's counters... Something he has never had to do against a boxer of that caliber.

Pacquiao is tremendous... A truly all-time great. I just think this is the worst possible matchup for him and I think that Floyd would box circles around him. I've been wrong before, but I (like you) feel pretty certain about how the fight would go.

[RedBlackAttack]

For those that may not be all that schooled in boxing technique, this is what I mean when I refer to controlling the distance...

Floyd Mayweather Jr. - Master of Defense (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK9en6g9JTQ)

Art of Defense (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyg_k8yQV0k)

:eek: :bowdown:

[yellownpurple]

For those that may not be all that schooled in boxing technique, this is what I mean when I refer to controlling the distance...

Floyd Mayweather Jr. - Master of Defense (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK9en6g9JTQ)

Art of Defense (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyg_k8yQV0k)

:eek: :bowdown:

Does mayweather get his defensive stance from anyone? I don't really see boxers using that type.

[Zombles]

his pops.

and while on paper Floyd's style would be a nightmare for Pac I think the intangible of his heart is a big question, he's never really been hurt or in a dog fight. Judah and Mosley both stunned him for a moment with flush shots but those fights were strolls aside from those two punches.

Manny should be able to outspeed Floyd, which none of his larger opponents come close to doing, and if he starts landing flush more than just once I wonder if Floyd will fold.

[RedBlackAttack]

Does mayweather get his defensive stance from anyone? I don't really see boxers using that type.
Floyd uses a hybrid of the Philly Shell. He employs a lot of the strategies and techniques of the Philly Shell, but he also adds his own variations.

Probably the most similar style I have seen is James Toney. Is it any coincidence that Floyd and Toney are natives of Grand Rapids, MI? Probably not.

But, yeah... If you want to see the most similar style to Floyd, check out Toney's bout against Iran Barkley and other big fights from relatively early in James' career.

[JustinJDW]

Fight will never happen because Mayweather is not a guy who takes chances. Mayweather knows Pacquiao could realistically beat him and thats not a risk Mayweather will take.This.

Although if the fight ever did win, Mayweather would win. :D

[RedBlackAttack]

his pops.

and while on paper Floyd's style would be a nightmare for Pac I think the intangible of his heart is a big question, he's never really been hurt or in a dog fight. Judah and Mosley both stunned him for a moment with flush shots but those fights were strolls aside from those two punches.

Manny should be able to outspeed Floyd, which none of his larger opponents come close to doing, and if he starts landing flush more than just once I wonder if Floyd will fold.
PBF hasn't given any indication that he will fall apart under the pressure of a close fight or being hurt. He has been legitimately stunned on two occasions... Against Mosley and against DeMarcus Corley.

Both times, he showed a great ability to regain his faculties quickly. Hell... Against Corley, he was stunned early in a round and he actually ended up coming back and winning the round handily.

Mosley legitimately hurt Floyd. His legs buckled on two occasions. Both times, he recovered quite nicely and SSM is no slouch when he smells blood.

Floyd was also in some very close battles with a real tank in Castillo. He acquitted himself very well in the closing rounds of both fights (especially the second).

Also, although I didn't think the fight was close at all, he closed the DLH bout very well, which actually led to his win on the cards. Had he not dominated those last 3-4 rounds, they may have stolen the decision for Oscar.

There is no reason to suspect a lack of heart. In fact, most of the evidence points to the opposite.

[Tarik One]

Manny should be able to outspeed Floyd,

You really believe this?

[Zombles]

This is true, but Floyd has never been in a true back-and-forth struggle, never been close to one. He's been hurt a few times but took almost no follow-up shots because of a good natural reaction to clinch.

And the De La Hoya fight may have been scored close but Floyd was undamaged throughout and he won the last few rounds more decisively than the others because Oscar gassed and stopped pumping his jab to get Floyd to retreat against the ropes where he would throw those useless judge-pleasing flurries.

I'm just saying, Floyd's never been in a war. I doubt he would fold like a lawn chair and look for the nearest exit but so much of his game is based around his cerebral skills, his ability to dissect a fight as it's happening and pinpoint his opponent's weaknesses. I wonder if he stays as clear-headed and intelligent when he's bleeding and bruised and being constantly pressured.

Which I think Manny will do to him, even if Manny loses. Floyd's reflexes are amazing but they've looked amazing against slower fighters. He hasn't fought anyone lately with the handspeed of Pac or the ability to string together blindingly fast combos.

[Zombles]

You really believe this?

i get the feeling, yes, especially in the sense that Pac's flurries will be quicker than Floyd's ability to shoulder-roll away from them.

can't be sure until they fight each other, they outspeed everyone else they fight and were both ridiculously quicker than their shared opponents.

[RedBlackAttack]

Zombles,
Watch the Castillo fights. There was PLENTY of adversity for Floyd in both fights and there was also a 'back-and-forth' aspect to both bouts.

Floyd overcame as much adversity in both of those fights as Manny has ever overcome in any fight. I'm not sure why Floyd gets a question mark in terms of heart and Pac has an automatic pass.

Pacquiao overcame adversity against Marquez in both of those fights, but he was also thoroughly out-boxed in both fights and had to rely on the KDs to get the wins. It isn't like he stepped up to completely dominate the championship rounds. In fact, during the first fight, Pac had to rely on the first three rounds to carry him to a very narrow win (I thought it was a draw at worst for JMM).

Floyd will not be 'out-quicked' by anyone. It isn't just about your handspeed (although Floyd's hands are amazingly quick), but also about footwork. Floyd is as quick as any fighter has ever been in the welterweight division.

[Tarik One]

This is true, but Floyd has never been in a true back-and-forth struggle, never been close to one. He's been hurt a few times but took almost no follow-up shots because of a good natural reaction to clinch.

And the De La Hoya fight may have been scored close but Floyd was undamaged throughout and he won the last few rounds more decisively than the others because Oscar gassed and stopped pumping his jab to get Floyd to retreat against the ropes where he would throw those useless judge-pleasing flurries.

I'm just saying, Floyd's never been in a war. I doubt he would fold like a lawn chair and look for the nearest exit but so much of his game is based around his cerebral skills, his ability to dissect a fight as it's happening and pinpoint his opponent's weaknesses. I wonder if he stays as clear-headed and intelligent when he's bleeding and bruised and being constantly pressured.

Which I think Manny will do to him, even if Manny loses. Floyd's reflexes are amazing but they've looked amazing against slower fighters. He hasn't fought anyone lately with the handspeed of Pac or the ability to string together blindingly fast combos.

You need to look at his fights from pre-2005. Trust me, the man has been battle tested on many occasion and against some tough mofos in 140 weight class. Just because a fighter looks so great against his opponents doesn't automatically mean he didn't have to reach deep down to overcome them.

[Tarik One]

double post

[SCREWstonRockets]

I laugh at people who think Floyd will just walk over Manny. Sure, I say Floyd is the favorite but its no walk in the park. He has never fought anyone close to Manny and vice versa. Manny is not just going to stand in front of him and throw punches. I can't wait to see how Floyd handles Manny's speed, movement and footwork. Manny didn't just get by Margarito, he annihilated him. Cleanly outboxed him, fought a smart fight.

I can see Manny outworking Floyd, with a sheer volume of punches. His combination punching is just vicious. I just want to see the clash of styles. Both have the best styles to defeat the other. Put them both in the ring and you'll see fireworks.




You look at some of the fighters whom Pac fought against who actually had some good skill and fight discipline such as JMM and Morales and Pac was reduced. Take that into consideration, how do you propose he'll handle Floyd who is a much sharper, smarter and technically sound fighter.

To be fair, the Manny we see now is not the same Manny that fought JMM and Morales. The current Manny is more disciplined, fights smarter and is more patient. Now a boxer-puncher as opposed to just a puncher back against JMM/Marquez. Freedie really did wonders with this kid.

[RedBlackAttack]

To be fair, the Manny we see now is not the same Manny that fought JMM and Morales. The current Manny is more disciplined, fights smarter and is more patient. Now a boxer-puncher as opposed to just a puncher back against JMM/Marquez. Freedie really did wonders with this kid.
That's what people keep saying, but what evidence do we have that Manny will be any better against a great boxer? He hasn't fought a great counter-punching pure boxer since Marquez.

It isn't like he fought JMM a decade ago... It was 2008.

[Sarcastic]

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=5820908


Would a black boxer stand a better chance against Manny Pacquiao than his most recent competition?

Bernard Hopkins believes so. And while boxing fans wait -- and wait -- for Pacquiao (52-3-2, 38 KOs) and Floyd Mayweather Jr. to finally agree to terms for a fight, Hopkins is asserting that a black fighter's style would give Pacquiao more of a challenge than Antonio Margarito was able to muster against Pacquiao on Saturday night, according to a story on Fanhouse.com.

And Hopkins -- who said he's voicing what other black fighters and fight fans are thinking but reluctant to say -- is wondering why Pacquiao hasn't fought Mayweather "or any other top-notch black fighter," according to the report.

"Floyd Mayweather would beat Manny Pacquiao because the styles that African-American fighters -- and I mean, black fighters from the streets or the inner cities -- would be successful," said Hopkins, according to Fanhouse.com. "I think Floyd Mayweather would pot-shot Pacquiao and bust him up in between the four-to-five punches that Pacquiao throws and then set him up later on down the line."

Pacquiao fought and defeated Joshua Clottey of Ghana earlier this year, but Hopkins discounted that win, saying "Clottey is 'black,' but not a 'black boxer' from the states with a slick style."

The Pacquiao and Mayweather camps have twice tried and failed to set up a fight between the two, despite predictions it would become the most lucrative bout ever. The first set of talks broke down in part over disagreements about Olympic-style drug testing.

Pacquiao adviser Michael Koncz strongly denied that Pacquiao is ducking anybody of any color or background, according to the report.

"The selection of opponents for Manny has nothing to do with race, creed or color," Koncz said, according to the report. "It's all about business. And they can cry all that they want. It's all about economics, now, with Manny's career.

"We have the luxury of doing that because Manny has proven to the world that he's got nothing left to prove. If there are any boxing people out there who doubt him, then, to hell with them," Koncz said, according to the report.

Bob Arum, who promotes Pacquiao, said he has heard that argument before, according to the report. He also denied Pacquiao is ducking anyone.

"I have heard that, yes. A lot of people don't articulate it. But a lot of people, in effect, hint at it," Arum said, according to the report. "But you're absolutely correct, and there is no argument there. The notion that he would not fight an African-American fighter is ridiculous."

Oh snap. Can't believe Hopkins went there.

[New York Knicks]

The race card. How original.

[IGOTGAME]

Hop is a great technician. I wouldn't dismiss the notion ad merely racist until examined. I know I have been calling for a top notch black fighter for two years just due to the different styled and movement.

[SCREWstonRockets]

That's what people keep saying, but what evidence do we have that Manny will be any better against a great boxer? He hasn't fought a great counter-punching pure boxer since Marquez.

It isn't like he fought JMM a decade ago... It was 2008.

I know what you're saying but you can't just watch that Manny and the current Manny and see the differences? He seemed somewhat one dimensional in those fights to me. The footwork was not there. All he did was come forward and throw wide punches which left him wide open for counters. His defense was just bad. He fought very wild.

[DonDadda59]

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=5820908



Oh snap. Can't believe Hopkins went there.

Then you don't know Hopkins (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtB0gD6O_Ak) :oldlol:

And the whole Manny never fought a 'slick Black boxer' thing....

Pacquiao vs Ledwaba (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gASk2E1Ih68)

On 2 weeks notice, against the champion- a 'master boxer', while still a raw one-handed fighter who had just started working with Roach... all while rocking the N'Sync hairdo.

And Bernard is just trying to get his boy Shane a fight with Manny, that's all it is.

[DonDadda59]

I know what you're saying but you can't just watch that Manny and the current Manny and see the differences? He seemed somewhat one dimensional in those fights to me. The footwork was not there. All he did was come forward and throw wide punches which left him wide open for counters. His defense was just bad. He fought very wild.

That's why I question if people really watch fights or if they're just waiting for KOs. Manny seems to add a new wrinkle to his game every fight. After he lost to Morales, Roach focused on his right hand and now he can throw it with speed/power/accuracy, then they started working on his footwork, counter-punching, head movement, angles, timing. Even in this fight with Margs, he unleashed an uppercut (both Tony and Garcia said that was the turning point and probably the punch that broke his face) in the 4th, that wasn't in his repertoire before as well as the jab and showed more ring generalship and slickness than he had in the past.

[Tarik One]

Oh snap. Can't believe Hopkins went there.


Not surprising at all coming from Hop. Go to :15

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0G__PG4z8I&feature=related

[Lebron23]

It's time for Mayweather to fight Manny Pacquiao next year. Pac is clean. It's such a waste of talent and potential if Floyd wouldn't fight the Ring Magazine and Boxing Writers Association of America 2000's Fighter of the Decade.

[DeronMillsap]

ESPN is reporting that May 7th will be Manny's next scheduled fight.

Opponent not named yet but expect an announcement this Friday.

[SCREWstonRockets]

Its not Floyd. Top 3 in order seems to be Mosley, Marquez and Berto. Marquez apparently is asking too much, Berto has the most reasonable offer but less name and Arum is pushing for Mosley....HARD. Only two dudes that want the Mosley-Pac fight are Bob Arum and Sugar Shane.

[Tarik One]

The only reason he's pushing "Hard" for Mosley is because Shane is the easiest foe out of the three.

[Reef]

Lost some respect for Manny taking this fight. Mosley looked terrible in his last two fights. Manny always seems to be fighting guys who were dominated 1 or 2 fights before he takes them on. I wanted to see him fight Berto just so people can't say he's dodging a black American fighter. Plus Berto's undefeated and in his prime. Sure he hasn't fought elite competition but he's got fast hands and lots of power.

My second choice would've been Marquez, although it wouldn't have been competitive at 147. Manny should be able to make 140 easily.

[Lebron23]

Mayweather rejects $50 million to fight Manny Pacquiao.

http://thenationonlineng.net/web3/football-golf-boxing/33284.html

[dunksby]

Mayweather rejects $50 million to fight Manny Pacquiao.

http://thenationonlineng.net/web3/football-golf-boxing/33284.html
Seems like he dont wanna get CKO, I feel him.

[IGOTGAME]

Mayweather rejects $50 million to fight Manny Pacquiao.

http://thenationonlineng.net/web3/football-golf-boxing/33284.html


Last month Pacquiao's promoter claimed that Mayweather would only consider fighting the WBO welterweight champion if he was guaranteed to earn $100 million dollars - a request which would mean Pacquiao would have to "fight for nothing", according to Top Rank head Arum.

see bolded

[SCREWstonRockets]

One thing I find funny is the same people that think the PacMosley fight is a joke, not saying that its not, are the same ones that creamed over Mosley-Mayweather. Am I suppose to believe Mosley was any less shot against Floyd than he is now? He fought him only a year ago. Keep it consistent, people.

Anyways, the mega fight will happen. Margarito and Mosley are softening Manny up for Floyd, while Floyd takes breaks to stay fresh and will take a safe tune up to shake off the rust. The timing is just right for it to happen. Be patient!

[RedBlackAttack]

One thing I find funny is the same people that think the PacMosley fight is a joke, not saying that its not, are the same ones that creamed over Mosley-Mayweather. Am I suppose to believe Mosley was any less shot against Floyd than he is now? He fought him only a year ago. Keep it consistent, people.
I knew that someone would be foolish enough to make this comparison...

It simply doesn't work. In the fight before SSM stepped in the ring with Floyd, he was destroying what was then the welterweight champion. So, not only was SSM the real welterweight champion when Floyd fought him, he was coming off of the best performance he had turned in.... maybe ever.

That is the SSM that Floyd agreed to fight.

This one? He is 0-1-1 in his last two fights and was damn lucky to get a draw against Sergio Mora.

The two situations couldn't be anymore different, really.

[ihatetimthomas]

Mayweather has the most to lose in this fight. His whole legacy seems to be riding on his undefeated record. Pacman has already lost fights, its not as big a deal for him. And Floyd has been out of the ring for some time, and has seen Pacman pulverize guys in the meantime. Floyd is making ridiculous demands and its clear he doesnt want to fight

[rezznor]

why not just post the article?

[QUOTE]Mayweather rejects $50m to fight Pacquiao
Font size: Our Reporter 10/04/2011 00:04:00
Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather Jnr's potential mega-fight appears unlikely to materialise after the latter refused $50 million to step into the ring with his Filipino rival.

The clamour for a bout between the two greats has grown in recent months but negotiations have always managed to hit stumbling blocks, with the pair falling out over the timing of blood tests taken before a possible showdown.

Last month Pacquiao's promoter claimed that Mayweather would only consider fighting the WBO welterweight champion if he was guaranteed to earn $100 million dollars - a request which would mean Pacquiao would have to "fight for nothing", according to Top Rank head Arum.

After the most recent negotiations between the two camps, Pacquiao's Canadian adviser Michael Koncz revealed that $50 million was offered to Mayweather but the American declined the proposal.

"A country that I won't name offered us $100 million to bring the Mayweather fight there," he told abs-cbnNEWS.com.

"So we, in turn, offered $50 million to Mayweather as a guarantee. If the pay-per-view comes in higher, Manny and Mayweather would make more. He refused the $50 million

[The_Yearning]

Mayweather is a little b!tch.

[RedBlackAttack]

Mayweather has the most to lose in this fight. His whole legacy seems to be riding on his undefeated record. Pacman has already lost fights, its not as big a deal for him. And Floyd has been out of the ring for some time, and has seen Pacman pulverize guys in the meantime. Floyd is making ridiculous demands and its clear he doesnt want to fight
Maybe for people who know nothing about the sport. That is just a ridiculous statement. He could lose his next five fights, retire, and he still will have had a great, great career.

I have to credit Bob Arum... He has done a tremendous of job of using the media to get his agenda out there. I'm just startled at those who continually lap it up and ask for seconds.

Then again, Floyd has created a bad guy persona and a lot of people have bought in, wholeheartedly. These nonsensical kinds of arguments are just an extension of that. You don't have to like or even respect someone to understand their accomplishments. Mayweather is one of the most accomplished boxers of his generation, aside from the undefeated record.

[ihatetimthomas]

Maybe for people who know nothing about the sport. That is just a ridiculous statement. He could lose his next five fights, retire, and he still will have had a great, great career.

I have to credit Bob Arum... He has done a tremendous of job of using the media to get his agenda out there. I'm just startled at those who continually lap it up and ask for seconds.

Then again, Floyd has created a bad guy persona and a lot of people have bought in, wholeheartedly. These nonsensical kinds of arguments are just an extension of that. You don't have to like or even respect someone to understand their accomplishments. Mayweather is one of the most accomplished boxers of his generation, aside from the undefeated record.

My wording was off, what I really meant to say is that it seems like he feels his legacy is riding on his undefeated record. I know he has accomplished a lot, and I never meant to make it sound like his career is nothing without the undefeated record. I am just trying to rationalize why he seems like he is ducking this fight. And all I can think of is that he doesn't want a loss on his record. Obviously you follow this sport more than I do, why is he ducking then?

[RedBlackAttack]

My wording was off, what I really meant to say is that it seems like he feels his legacy is riding on his undefeated record. I know he has accomplished a lot, and I never meant to make it sound like his career is nothing without the undefeated record. I am just trying to rationalize why he seems like he is ducking this fight. And all I can think of is that he doesn't want a loss on his record. Obviously you follow this sport more than I do, why is he ducking then?
I think that a situation has been created wherein both sides literally despise one another and a lot of people don't want to see the fight made. The negotiations have become so poisoned by things said and done in the past, it is going to be really difficult for anything to ever happen.

I don't think either guy is 'ducking.' In fact, I think that the tension lies mostly with the promotional companies, not the fighters. And, please... Stop believing everything you read from Bob Arum.

As I said in another post earlier in this thread, he is as much a sh!t talker as anyone in the Mayweather clan... He just does it in a more subtle way. I very rarely believe anything out of his mouth that isn't backed up by multiple credible sources.

What I see happening in this thread is a sort of deflection of the real matter at hand and it has nothing to do with Floyd... It has to do with this current putrid bout that has been made by Arum/Roach/Pacquiao.

The easiest target for Pacquiao fans always seems to be Mayweather, so this has turned into yet another bash Floyd thread. In actuality, every fan of the sport should be massively disappointed in this selection of opponent regardless of which 'side' you are on in the Manny/Floyd debate.

[ihatetimthomas]

thanks for the response. sorry for the ignorant posts, not a big follower of this and only hear things here and there. so i guess my thoughts are not as informed as they should be

[RedBlackAttack]

thanks for the response. sorry for the ignorant posts, not a big follower of this and only hear things here and there. so i guess my thoughts are not as informed as they should be
I can't really blame you. From the periphery and as an outside observer that hasn't been following the thing closely throughout, I can see why you might have the perspective that you do.

Mayweather and GBP, in general, have not gone public with any accusations or any discussions of the negotiations of the fight, in general. Arum is the only one in this matter that is going public with all of these accusations, so it is the only side that people are hearing.

Plus, as I said above, a lot of people really want to dislike Floyd as it is. This situation has just poured fuel on an already red-hot fire.

There are people that are tuned into the boxing scene that do think that Floyd is 'ducking' Pacquiao, many of whom post on here. I just happen to believe that the situation is a lot more complicated than people would like to believe and there are a lot of really large egos involved, which have made things impossible.

Yes, some of those egos that have poisoned things are on the Mayweather/GBP side.... A lot of them are on the other side, as well.

I've never seen such a massive hatred, not just between two fighters, entourages or trainers, but two huge promotional companies.

For those that have been paying attention for the last few years, the boxing world has basically split into two leagues. There is Golden Boy Promotions and Top Rank (Bob Arum).

GBP's most prized possession is Mayweather and Top Rank's most prized possession is Manny Pacquiao. These two sides have a really difficult time coming together and making a fight between two featherweights that you've never heard of, let alone their prized possessions.

Then, throw in the fact that Arum and Mayweather have a history of despising one another...

It is just not good. I'm absolutely convinced that if Pacquiao were with GBP, this fight would have happened a long time ago.

[kaiiu]

Floyd a pu$$y

[ihatetimthomas]

So based on all that has happened. Do you think this fight will eventually go down? I wonder because Mayweather is not getting any younger and this fight likely couldnt happen for til next year or so. based on what you have said about the promotional companies, it looks like its going to be tough unless one side wants to give. It would be a shame for these 2 to not fight in their primes

[RedBlackAttack]

So based on all that has happened. Do you think this fight will eventually go down? I wonder because Mayweather is not getting any younger and this fight likely couldnt happen for til next year or so. based on what you have said about the promotional companies, it looks like its going to be tough unless one side wants to give. It would be a shame for these 2 to not fight in their primes
Based on everything that has happened and what I know about Top Rank and GBP, I'm not too optimistic about this fight being made in the near future. It may happen in a few years, but I have a strange feeling that one or both guys will be out of their primes by the time it eventually happens.

I hope I'm wrong.

[SCREWstonRockets]

I knew that someone would be foolish enough to make this comparison...

It simply doesn't work. In the fight before SSM stepped in the ring with Floyd, he was destroying what was then the welterweight champion. So, not only was SSM the real welterweight champion when Floyd fought him, he was coming off of the best performance he had turned in.... maybe ever.

That is the SSM that Floyd agreed to fight.

This one? He is 0-1-1 in his last two fights and was damn lucky to get a draw against Sergio Mora.

The two situations couldn't be anymore different, really.

Yea, the same welterweight champ who used plaster to beat his opponents right? Or does that not matter now? The same Margarito that was heavily unmatched against Manny in a farce of a match. Remember how much of a joke that fight was? But I guess he was "shot" after the Mosley fight. I should also mention that Shane fought Margarito about 15 months before that Floyd fight. That is a lot of time off for a big fight against Floyd. He didn't take a tune up like Manny, Floyd or Sergio would. C'mon man, people have been saying Shane is "shot" since the De La Hoya fight.


So based on all that has happened. Do you think this fight will eventually go down? I wonder because Mayweather is not getting any younger and this fight likely couldnt happen for til next year or so. based on what you have said about the promotional companies, it looks like its going to be tough unless one side wants to give. It would be a shame for these 2 to not fight in their primes

Yes, this fight goes down in 2012. By then, he should be past his legal problems and tax problems. With those tax problems, Floyd is going to want his biggest pay day ever with the fight against Manny.

[iamgine]

I've said it before Mosley fought Floyd and I'll say it again. SSM was an over the hill bum then. He's an over the hill bum now. He's just riding on his name.

And what's all this about hatred between both sides? :oldlol: Sure they dislike each other. But that never stops money from talking before. This aren't high school, these are professionals. Clearly both promotional sides wanted the fight to happen because...uh, well everybody's gonna be rich. It just seems like one boxer wants to fight and the other is well...keeping silent and saying ridiculous things. All we hear from him is "I'm gonna retire again". :oldlol:

[L.Kizzle]

Fight will never happen, too bad ...

[Gundress]

F*ck Mayweather JR for real, he started this shit and knew this fight will never happen because of him aka b!tch ass mfer.

[magic chiongson]

this fight aint happening.


how bout this instead:

roger mayweather (or floyd sr) vs bobby pacquiao

do it mitch!

[RedBlackAttack]

Yea, the same welterweight champ who used plaster to beat his opponents right? Or does that not matter now?

You mean, the same glove-plaster champ that Pacquiao chose as his opponent the last time he walked to the ring? If Mosley's win over Margarito was totally meaningless -- as you seem to claim -- what was Pacquiao's less dominant win over Margarito almost two years later and after Margarito was disallowed from competition for an extended period? That must have been a completely and utterly worthless waste of time.



The same Margarito that was heavily unmatched against Manny in a farce of a match. Remember how much of a joke that fight was?

Yeah, I do remember what a joke it was... And I remember saying before the fight that it was a joke, because Margarito looked awful against Robert Garcia in his comeback bout.... And, because Margarito didn't deserve that kind of payday after loading his gloves for who knows how long. That fight had no business taking place. And, btw, Margarito was more competitive against Pacquiao than he was against Shane, which is not saying much.

I'm just trying to figure out how that is relevant to what Shane did to Margarito, factoring in that Margarito was the unquestioned welterweight champion when the victory came and he had ruled over the division for years. You will probably claim that he did so only because of plastered wraps, but Shane didn't know that going into the fight. They only found out in the dressing room just before the bell rang (and when Margarito was a HUGE favorite).

My questions about Pacquiao's choices of opponents are because he is fighting guys immediately after they have been beaten... In most cases, beaten badly.


But I guess he was "shot" after the Mosley fight.

Pacquiao beats any version of Margarito, because Margs is/was way too slow. I'm just questioning the timing of these opponents.

He fights Margarito after Mosley absolutely pulverizes him and then he is out of the sport for two years. Now, he is fighting Mosley after Mayweather pulverizes him and he nearly loses to Sergio Mora. He fought Clottey immediately after he had been beaten by Cotto, a guy who Pacquiao had already destroyed. He fought Cotto after Margarito had almost ended his career with a brutal beating. He fought Hatton after Floyd embarrassed him.

Are you seeing a trend? Ask yourself, if Floyd had fought Hatton after Pacquiao had knocked him out, would you have been mocking him? If Floyd had fought Mosley after Pacquiao had dominated him, would you have been mocking him? If Floyd had fought Margarito after a two year layoff and a brutal beating at the hands of Mosley, would you be mocking him?

I think we both know the answers to these questions.

I will never question Pacquiao's ability in the ring. He is an amazing fighter. In fact, I still love watching him fight, although his fans make it difficult sometimes. I do, however, have serious questions about his recent string of opponents. It leaves a lot to be desired, frankly.

I have been critical of Floyd's opponents at times, too. I thought what he did to JMM was bush league and it really took away from what should have been a great victory over a great fighter. But, he did fight Hatton while he was still undefeated. He did fight Mosley after Shane looked tremendous against Margarito. He was the first 'little guy' to fight DLH and he did it at 154, not 147.

The thing that gets me about Pacquiao fans is that, even though Pacquiao and Mayweather have fought a lot of common opponents and even though -- in most cases -- Floyd was the first to beat these common opponents, I'm to believe that Floyd takes the easiest road and Manny is a major risk-taker? It doesn't work like that... You can't have it both ways.


I should also mention that Shane fought Margarito about 15 months before that Floyd fight. That is a lot of time off for a big fight against Floyd. He didn't take a tune up like Manny, Floyd or Sergio would. C'mon man, people have been saying Shane is "shot" since the De La Hoya fight.

How can you even begin to make this argument? After Shane easily dispatched Margarito, Tony sat out from the sport for TWO YEARS and then Pacquiao decides to fight him.

Shane sat out for 14 months AFTER his most impressive win probably since his first victory over DLH... Then, Floyd fought him. A lot of people on this site were saying that Floyd would never fight Mosley and that Shane had a real shot at beating him. Shane was still highly regarded amongst both boxing enthusiasts and fighters/trainers/promoters/the general public.

When you are out-boxed by Sergio Mora... Yeah, things change.

Tony sits out for two years after getting completely pulverized and then Manny fights him. No one in their right mind was even saying that this fight would be competitive. In fact, it ended up being more entertaining and went a hell of a lot longer than most of us thought possible.

You want it both ways... You criticize Mayweather for things, but then avoid the same issues when it comes to your boy. At least be consistent.

[SCREWstonRockets]

You mean, the same glove-plaster champ that Pacquiao chose as his opponent the last time he walked to the ring? If Mosley's win over Margarito was totally meaningless -- as you seem to claim -- what was Pacquiao's less dominant win over Margarito almost two years later and after Margarito was disallowed from competition for an extended period? That must have been a completely and utterly worthless waste of time.


I never said that was an incredibly great win for Manny or even said it was any more than what it was.


And, btw, Margarito was more competitive against Pacquiao than he was against Shane, which is not saying much.

Sure, If hanging for 12 rounds means its a competitive fight. Mosley is the stronger puncher, Manny breaks you down with a accumulation of punches. And you of all people should know that styles make fights. But I mine as well bring up how Manny did Hatton in 2rds while it took Floyd much longer, to make my point, right?


I'm just trying to figure out how that is relevant to what Shane did to Margarito, factoring in that Margarito was the unquestioned welterweight champion when the victory came and he had ruled over the division for years. You will probably claim that he did so only because of plastered wraps, but Shane didn't know that going into the fight. They only found out in the dressing room just before the bell rang (and when Margarito was a HUGE favorite).

It means whatever Margarito did, is tainted. Like if Pacquiao ever got caught doing steroids, everything he did will be tainted as well. Margarito was the huge favorite.....because everyone said Mosley was shot.


He fights Margarito after Mosley absolutely pulverizes him and then he is out of the sport for two years.

Two years? Thats a bit of a stretch. Margarito and Mosley were actually inactive and came back in almost the same exact time. Except Margs took a tuneup before Manny and Shane went straight to Floyd after his lay off. So in essence, Margs shook off ring rust against a bum, while Shane was trying to shake off ring rust against a Floyd Mayweather.


Now, he is fighting Mosley after Mayweather pulverizes him and he nearly loses to Sergio Mora.

Yea, I'm sure Shane is so damaged after taking all those shots from the powerful punching of Mayweather and Mora.


He fought Clottey immediately after he had been beaten by Cotto, a guy who Pacquiao had already destroyed. He fought Cotto after Margarito had almost ended his career with a brutal beating. He fought Hatton after Floyd embarrassed him.

Are you seeing a trend? Ask yourself, if Floyd had fought Hatton after Pacquiao had knocked him out, would you have been mocking him? If Floyd had fought Mosley after Pacquiao had dominated him, would you have been mocking him? If Floyd had fought Margarito after a two year layoff and a brutal beating at the hands of Mosley, would you be mocking him?

I think we both know the answers to these questions.

I will never question Pacquiao's ability in the ring. He is an amazing fighter. In fact, I still love watching him fight, although his fans make it difficult sometimes. I do, however, have serious questions about his recent string of opponents. It leaves a lot to be desired, frankly.

I have been critical of Floyd's opponents at times, too. I thought what he did to JMM was bush league and it really took away from what should have been a great victory over a great fighter. But, he did fight Hatton while he was still undefeated. He did fight Mosley after Shane looked tremendous against Margarito. He was the first 'little guy' to fight DLH and he did it at 154, not 147.

The thing that gets me about Pacquiao fans is that, even though Pacquiao and Mayweather have fought a lot of common opponents and even though -- in most cases -- Floyd was the first to beat these common opponents, I'm to believe that Floyd takes the easiest road and Manny is a major risk-taker? It doesn't work like that... You can't have it both ways.

I don't get why you're turning this into a who manny fought vs who floyd fought debate. That was initially about how people think this PacMosley is a farce fight, yet creamed over Mosley-Mayweather like it was the best fight to come in ages. I never criticized Floyd's opponents or took anything away from him. Only brought up the MosleyMay fight to make a point. I've said it in the past that both men have cemented their legacy, regardless if they ever have the mega fight.

I don't criticize for common opponents. Someone obviously has to be first to fight the guy.


How can you even begin to make this argument? After Shane easily dispatched Margarito, Tony sat out from the sport for TWO YEARS and then Pacquiao decides to fight him.

Nope, it wasn't two years like I said earlier. And when was Manny suppose to fight him after the Mosley fight when he was suspended? Manny fought him as soon as possible.


Shane sat out for 14 months AFTER his most impressive win probably since his first victory over DLH... Then, Floyd fought him. A lot of people on this site were saying that Floyd would never fight Mosley and that Shane had a real shot at beating him. Shane was still highly regarded amongst both boxing enthusiasts and fighters/trainers/promoters/the general public.

:oldlol: @ Shane having a real shot to beat him. Maybe casual fans believed that. I agree, Shane is still a good fighter, but taking a year and some change off and then fighting the best fighter, was a mistake. That is one of the reasons why throughout the fight he was getting more and more winded. Or maybe he was just shot like people have been saying? I knew he had no chance. You can't sit out for that long. There is no substitute for a 12 round boxing match, except for a 12 round boxing match.


When you are out-boxed by Sergio Mora... Yeah, things change.

That fight was too ugly for Serigo to outbox Shane. Saying Segio's performance was outboxing Shane is a slap in the face to boxing.


Tony sits out for two years after getting completely pulverized and then Manny fights him. No one in their right mind was even saying that this fight would be competitive. In fact, it ended up being more entertaining and went a hell of a lot longer than most of us thought possible.


That is why I'm a fan of Manny. He feels its as important to entertain the fans, as it is to win the fight. He'll do things like that Ali shuffle or open up his guard for a bit so he can counter. The fight should have been stopped in Round 9.



You want it both ways... You criticize Mayweather for things, but then avoid the same issues when it comes to your boy. At least be consistent

You assume that just because I don't drink the Mayweather koolaid, that I'm some Pacquaio nut that hates on Floyd. That couldn't be any more wrong. I don't sit around all day dissecting and trying to discredit everything Manny and Floyd do and how much money they bring in like these manny may weirdos. Sure, I've got on Floyd about being inactive and about not fighting a certain boxer (and the only time I do is when ppl start crying how manny is fighting bums while taking steroids to beat these bums) but I don't take anything away from him that he has already accomplished. I'm not a fan of him because of his personality and his ridiculous fans but I have nothing but respect for him as a boxer.

All I was trying to say is that if you busted a nut for Mosley-Mayweather, don't start going around saying how this PacMosley fight is so horrible and bad for boxing, and all that. This isn't a damaged fighter here. The last two guys he fought aren't exactly known for knocking heads off. I believe Shane is still as good (however "good" that was) as he was in the Mayweather fight, possibly more fresh as well. And more motivated for the Manny fight than the Mora fight. Like you said, keep it consistent. If this is a bad fight, than ShaneFloyd was a bad fight. If ShaneFloyd was an ok fight, than this should be an ok fight. If anything, their fights with Shane are "Money" fights.

[RedBlackAttack]

Sure, If hanging for 12 rounds means its a competitive fight. Mosley is the stronger puncher, Manny breaks you down with a accumulation of punches. And you of all people should know that styles make fights. But I mine as well bring up how Manny did Hatton in 2rds while it took Floyd much longer, to make my point, right?

I didn't say it was a competitve fight. It absolutely was not a competitive fight. Shane blew Margarito out of the ring, though. There wasn't one competitive moment in that fight. There were a few rounds against Pacquiao that it actually seemed as though Margs' strategy of wearing down Manny might actually work. Of course, those moment were fleeting, but they were there. Shane took Margs to the woodshed from the opening bell until the knockout.

And, yeah... Pacquiao did beat Hatton 'worse' than Mayweather did. It is hard to beat someone with more ease than Pac did Hatton. That was a total blowout.

Although, Mayweather's win over him was impressive, as well. Floyd doesn't generally go for knockouts. The punch he hit Hatton with to end it was absolutely perfect.

I'm not even sure that we are disagreeing anymore? :confusedshrug:


Two years? Thats a bit of a stretch. Margarito and Mosley were actually inactive and came back in almost the same exact time. Except Margs took a tuneup before Manny and Shane went straight to Floyd after his lay off. So in essence, Margs shook off ring rust against a bum, while Shane was trying to shake off ring rust against a Floyd Mayweather.

The point is this... Margarito looked awful in the fight prior to his being kicked out of boxing. Then, he looked bad in his tuneup against Garcia before fighting Pacquiao.

Mosley looked great in his fight prior to going against Mayweather. And, SSM certainly wasn't ring rusty against Floyd. Guys with ring rust take a while to get going. Shane came out against Mayweather and looked great... Actually stunned Floyd twice... The first guy in YEARS to really hurt him. Ring rust was not the issue for Mosley against Mayweather.



Yea, I'm sure Shane is so damaged after taking all those shots from the powerful punching of Mayweather and Mora.

I'm not sure if you remember the fight clearly, but maybe you should re-watch it. Floyd was totally over-powering Shane. He walked him down... Peppered him with clean, hard shots throughout. If he would have pushed for it, I'm pretty sure he could have gotten Shane out of there in the late rounds, but that isn't Floyd's style. There is no doubt, though, that Shane took a lot of punishment in that fight.

I was shocked at the way Floyd chose to fight him, to be honest... And I think Shane was, too.


:oldlol: @ Shane having a real shot to beat him. Maybe casual fans believed that. I agree, Shane is still a good fighter, but taking a year and some change off and then fighting the best fighter, was a mistake. That is one of the reasons why throughout the fight he was getting more and more winded. Or maybe he was just shot like people have been saying? I knew he had no chance. You can't sit out for that long. There is no substitute for a 12 round boxing match, except for a 12 round boxing match.

All you have to do is look back at the initial thread when the Mayweather/Mosley fight was announced to see that it WASN'T just 'casual fans' who thought that it was going to be a great fight and that Shane had a real shot. Some of the best boxing posters on this site (and on every major boxing message board) thought that Shane was a serious, serious threat.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=155309&page=47


When Mayweather accepts this fight, the ducking accusations will be laid to rest. If somehow it doesn't happen because of Floyd's camp, then the trashing can continue.


RBA, you may think that I'm here praying and hoping the Mayweather-Mosley fight won't happen but believe me that if that fight is announced it will be the fulfillment of a boxing matchup wish I, and obviously most boxing fans, have had for YEARS, not just weeks like some of the casuals. But maybe I'm just jaded by all the b.s. of the past few months, and years from Floyd. But I can't lie, this would be an intriguing matchup.

I would pick Shane to win via split decision, I know people will think I'm just 'hating' on Floyd, but I've thought for years he had what it took to at least make the fight competitive but now that he has Brother Naazim in his corner, he'll have an airtight strategy. I'm sure the playbook is already drawn up, Bernard mentioned it a while ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWu1BWIRkEs

The only question mark is how SHane's body and abilities have held up during his unintended exile from boxing, but Oscar says Shane was in phenomenal shape for Berto, so I'm thinking he still has the physical capabilities to pull it off. I see it being like the Oscar fight, only with a faster, more accurate, and MUCH more active Shane... he won't burn out like DLH is prone to do.

From my estimation, Money has no real weaknesses but he does have tendencies that could be exploited. Most glaring to me, when he leads with his right, he lunges and leaves himself completely exposed- a faster fighter can catch him flush and counter the master counter, Zab did this and knocked him down, if Shane (or Manny :D ) caught him, it might do just a bit more damage. Also, whenever he's on the ropes, he gets into his shell, rolls, maybe throws a few counters, and ALWAYS dips to his right. If you throw a few feints and get him to bite and dip as usual, you probably could catch him with a clean left uppercut. Obviously this all requires great speed, timing, and accuracy, but Shane more than fits the bill... and adds KO power.

Anyway, hopefully I'm proven wrong so we can all get to discussing actual fights and put the b.s. politics aside :cheers:


People sleeping on Shane. Shane is capable of beating Floyd Jr moreso than Pac is. And this fight is a much better one than the Floyd vs Pac. I dont see Pac beating Floyd. I do see Shane beating Floyd. I'm rooting for Floyd but this is gonna be a good one.

I read that Shane agreed to the blood testing Floyd Jr demanded. No issus doin them. Anyone know if the these blood testing demands are the same for Pac? And if so why was Shane so quickly to say yes whereas Pac was hesistant? Afterall thats the only reason this fight aint getting done. But I'm unsure if the blood demands are the same. I'm curious, so if anyone finds out? Post in here.


http://www.examiner.com/x-21442-Sacramento-Fight-Sports-Examiner~y2010m1d31-Delayed-Signings-and-a-Rematch-Clause-proves-Floyd-Mayweather-Jr-is-scared-of-Shane-Mosley


well after all the talk at least now we can finally see the fights. i think shane mosley will beat mayweather..in the same way i thought mayweather has a bigger chance of winning against pacquiao (in an ugly way though), but mosley-pac could go both ways, styles make fights.


Need I continue (there are plenty more, if you click through the thread)?

It is easy to sit back now and talk about how Shane was totally washed up and no one ever thought that he posed a risk to Floyd, but that is simple revisionist history. When you fight guys as good as Shane Mosley coming off of performances as great as the one against Margarito, people are going to give you a chance against anyone.

[RedBlackAttack]

You assume that just because I don't drink the Mayweather koolaid, that I'm some Pacquaio nut that hates on Floyd. That couldn't be any more wrong. I don't sit around all day dissecting and trying to discredit everything Manny and Floyd do and how much money they bring in like these manny may weirdos. Sure, I've got on Floyd about being inactive and about not fighting a certain boxer (and the only time I do is when ppl start crying how manny is fighting bums while taking steroids to beat these bums) but I don't take anything away from him that he has already accomplished. I'm not a fan of him because of his personality and his ridiculous fans but I have nothing but respect for him as a boxer.

And, we agree here.



All I was trying to say is that if you busted a nut for Mosley-Mayweather, don't start going around saying how this PacMosley fight is so horrible and bad for boxing, and all that. This isn't a damaged fighter here. The last two guys he fought aren't exactly known for knocking heads off. I believe Shane is still as good (however "good" that was) as he was in the Mayweather fight, possibly more fresh as well. And more motivated for the Manny fight than the Mora fight. Like you said, keep it consistent. If this is a bad fight, than ShaneFloyd was a bad fight. If ShaneFloyd was an ok fight, than this should be an ok fight. If anything, their fights with Shane are "Money" fights.

Here is the thing, though... This seems far too opportunistic and there were better fights out there (JMM III, Berto, Martinez). Shane was battered and beaten against Floyd and had a draw with Mora. Why fight him now? Let him turn in another legit performance against an elite fighter while you take on your old foe in JMM (who has looked great recently) or a young gun (Berto). It isn't like there were no other options. Martinez was a pipe dream and I don't expect Manny to take that fight, but it was also an outside option... Certainly far more appealing than this.

You can't compare this fight to Floyd's fight against Shane. It isn't fair. Shane had looked tremendous in his last fight before stepping in against Floyd. All of that other stuff doesn't matter. Now, two fights later, he is not regarded in the same way and rightfully so.

Hell, styles make fights... Maybe Mosley goes out and beat Pacquiao? I don't see it happening, but you never know. Still, it isn't the same to fight him coming off of Margarito as it is fighting him coming off of Mayweather and Mora. To make such an assertion is just ridiculous.

Whatever... I'm sick of arguing about Pacquiao. I respect him as a fighter, but he hasn't done himself any favors with the timing of his opponents recently.

[RedBlackAttack]

rba, after pacquiao/mosley, who would you want to see fight pacman (besides obviously floyd)

jmm?
bradley?
berto?
cotto again?
I want to see JMM III. That is No. 1 on my list, preferably at 140 or 135. A distant second would be Berto.

I have little interest in Pacquiao fighting either Bradley or Cotto.

[IGOTGAME]

I want to see JMM III. That is No. 1 on my list, preferably at 140 or 135. A distant second would be Berto.

I have little interest in Pacquiao fighting either Bradley or Cotto.

I would actually like to see him fight Bradley or Berto. Both are quick and have some power.

[Flash88]

As much as JMM has earned a third match with Pacquiao (I thought JMM won the second fight), Pacquiao would just blitz through him. Marquez' reflexes are deteriorating and Pacquiao was severely weight-drained at 130. This is all under the assumption that the fight would be at welterweight because I don't see Pacquiao ever going down to 135 and I don't think 140 is an option either.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Arum somehow pries JMM away from Golden Boy after the Mosley fight and makes a 3rd match with Pacquiao. It appeases the boxing fans who were critical of Mosley as an opponent and it's an easy fight for Pacquiao.

I'd prefer Pacquiao fight Berto or Bradley, preferably Berto. And somewhere down the line a Paul Williams fight would be awesome.

[raiderfan19]

As much as JMM has earned a third match with Pacquiao (I thought JMM won the second fight), Pacquiao would just blitz through him. Marquez' reflexes are deteriorating and Pacquiao was severely weight-drained at 130. This is all under the assumption that the fight would be at welterweight because I don't see Pacquiao ever going down to 135 and I don't think 140 is an option either.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Arum somehow pries JMM away from Golden Boy after the Mosley fight and makes a 3rd match with Pacquiao. It appeases the boxing fans who were critical of Mosley as an opponent and it's an easy fight for Pacquiao.

I'd prefer Pacquiao fight Berto or Bradley, preferably Berto. And somewhere down the line a Paul Williams fight would be awesome.
A paul williams fight will never happen and it makes no sense for manny because there is a little risk and no reward.

[SCREWstonRockets]

[QUOTE]Mosley looked great in his fight prior to going against Mayweather. And, SSM certainly wasn't ring rusty against Floyd. Guys with ring rust take a while to get going. Shane came out against Mayweather and looked great... Actually stunned Floyd twice... The first guy in YEARS to really hurt him. Ring rust was not the issue for Mosley against Mayweather.


Yea he started off fast, and that lasted what, 2 rounds? He was clearly getting winded as the match went on. His legs were failing him. That leads me to believe that either his conditioning was not there or the simple answer, he was shot. He looked old overnight. Completely did a 180 since his performance against Margarito. Floyd didn't help him out by whooping him.


I'm not sure if you remember the fight clearly, but maybe you should re-watch it. Floyd was totally over-powering Shane. He walked him down... Peppered him with clean, hard shots throughout. If he would have pushed for it, I'm pretty sure he could have gotten Shane out of there in the late rounds, but that isn't Floyd's style. There is no doubt, though, that Shane took a lot of punishment in that fight.

I was shocked at the way Floyd chose to fight him, to be honest... And I think Shane was, too.

When I mean damaged, I mean like Cotto damaged. He wasn't cut up and bruised up. It wasn't bad enough that the ref was going to stop it early. I don't even think he was wobbled or seriously hurt at any point. It wasn't like people were concerned about his health after that beat down.



All you have to do is look back at the initial thread when the Mayweather/Mosley fight was announced to see that it WASN'T just 'casual fans' who thought that it was going to be a great fight and that Shane had a real shot. Some of the best boxing posters on this site (and on every major boxing message board) thought that Shane was a serious, serious threat.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=155309&page=47

The way how those folks thought Shane really had a chance, makes it even more plausible that Shane was definitely shot in that fight. Because it wasnt close at all, pass the shot he landed on a unbalanced Mayweather. The Margarito performance fooled a lot of people. To be fair, Margarito was tailor made for Shane. Put Shane in there with a boxer (Mora/floyd) and he'll struggle.

Its not so much about what people thought he was going to do against Floyd, but its more about how he really performed. Fans and experts thought Morales shouldn't be in there and was going to be murdered before the fight happened. After the fight, Erik was standing tall. And he looked way more shot and damaged than Shane ever did or does.


Here is the thing, though... This seems far too opportunistic and there were better fights out there (JMM III, Berto, Martinez). Shane was battered and beaten against Floyd and had a draw with Mora. Why fight him now? Let him turn in another legit performance against an elite fighter while you take on your old foe in JMM (who has looked great recently) or a young gun (Berto). It isn't like there were no other options. Martinez was a pipe dream and I don't expect Manny to take that fight, but it was also an outside option... Certainly far more appealing than this.

For the record, I preferred Manny to fight anyone but Shane. So we agree there. And i love boxing so much that i look at the positive side of that fight. Doesnt do anything for me to ***** about it. So im watching to so see Manny do what he does best and put on a show. Only Manny and Floyd can captivate you with a one sided performance. That is why they are head and shoulders above the rest. They're so good, their fights don't even look competitive.

With Manny and Floyd, they've took the fights to prove themselves. They took the fights to get where they are now. They are not like Khan or Berto where they have to take the toughest fights possible to prove to everyone else that they belong at that high level.

So if anyone can coast and take a few money fights, it's Floyd and Manny. Better than not fighting at all and being inactive. Looking back, I wish Floyd took that Hatton fight because we get to see him in the ring and that probably would have prevented all his legal troubles he had recently.

Once these two guys fight, whoever they fought before, won't even matter. Now, if it doesn't happen, then Manny should really look into the best fought possible before he rides into the sunset. But who out there can give him a competitive fight? As much as I still want to see it, Pacquaio sparks out Marquez this time around. Same goes with Berto who has yet to prove himself. The only guys that can give Manny problems beside Floyd would be Martinez or Paul Williams. Unrealistic fights because they're not in the same weight class.

The same goes with Floyd. Which is why these guys need and will fight each other come 2012.

[Lebron23]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-pacquiao-mayweather-showtime-20131126,0,3476896.story#axzz2lnCFiqL2


It's better late than never. Pac vs. Money May in 2014.

[L.Kizzle]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-pacquiao-mayweather-showtime-20131126,0,3476896.story#axzz2lnCFiqL2


It's better late than never. Pac vs. Money May in 2014.
Arum said Pac is fighting in April and we all know Mayweather fights in May ... Unless it happens in September.

In the meantime Pac and rematch Bradley and Mayweather can fight Garcia/Khan or Alexander/Porter winner.

[DonDadda59]

It's better late than never. Pac vs. Money May in 2014.

That's the same attitude I had about Jones-Hopkins II. Lord was I wrong :lol





:(

[L.Kizzle]

That's the same attitude I had about Jones-Hopkins II. Lord was I wrong :lol





:(
Jones-Hopkins II happened 10 years too late. Hell, it would have been a good scrap two years earlier in 2008. Fight should have happened around 97-02.

[kNicKz]

shit never happened. smh

[Beatlezz]

Let it go. This shit will never happen. :lol

[DeuceWallaces]

Manny is nothing without roids. This fight would be a laughing stock and PBF is two years older than him.

[Beatlezz]

Manny is nothing without roids. This fight would be a laughing stock and PBF is two years older than him.

This guy.. :lol

[$LakerGold]

This guy.. :lol
It's his job to hate on Manny. Let him hate.

50 years from now, people will remember Manny as one of the greatest. & no one will remember this idiot, not even his own grand-kids.

[nathanjizzle]

i wouldnt expect deuce to know much about boxing.

[DeuceWallaces]

I am definitely not a boxing aficionado, but what I do know is boxers don't get knocked out by nobodies when they're coming up and then magically go on to become one of the greats ever. That is highly suspicious, combined with his refusal to take tests, and his recent poor performances since.

[DonDadda59]

I am definitely not a boxing aficionado, but what I do know is boxers don't get knocked out by nobodies when they're coming up and then magically go on to become one of the greats ever. That is highly suspicious, combined with his refusal to take tests, and his recent poor performances since.

Should've just left it at the bold :facepalm

Henry Armstrong, universally regarded as a top 5-10 PFP all time great fighter lost 3 of his first 4 fights, his professional debut being a KO loss. Armstrong, who Pacquiao is most compared to because both transcended weight classes, was probably the worst steroid abuser in recorded History according to your 'logic'.

Benny Leonard, universally regarded as top 10-20 all time, was KO'd in his pro debut (as well as a few other instances in his first 30 or so fights). Legend has it A-Side meth turned him into the legendary fighter he became.

Alexis Arguello, another top 50 all time fighter, was KO'ed in his fifth pro fight and lost the next match via decision. Another doper.

Bernard Hopkins (lost his pro debut), Juan Manuel Marquez and his brother Rafael (both lost their pro debut), Nonito Donaire (lost his second fight) are some recent examples of guys who suffered early setbacks in their careers who went on to have stellar, PFP and HOF worthy runs.

But you obviously aren't just talking out of your ass so please... do tell us more.

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/5944495360/hCA5082B6/

[DeuceWallaces]

Lost like two of his first ten to nobodies in the Philippines it's highly irregular in modern times. Moreover, I would think there's a big difference between losing your debut, and losing 2 of your first 10-15 after you've gotten by nerves or experience of a couple fights. That aside, dude refused to be tested. It's very likely he was on roids no matter was his stans say.

[lefthook00]

Should've just left it at the bold :facepalm

Henry Armstrong, universally regarded as a top 5-10 PFP all time great fighter lost 3 of his first 4 fights, his professional debut being a KO loss. Armstrong, who Pacquiao is most compared to because both transcended weight classes, was probably the worst steroid abuser in recorded History according to your 'logic'.

Benny Leonard, universally regarded as top 10-20 all time, was KO'd in his pro debut (as well as a few other instances in his first 30 or so fights). Legend has it A-Side meth turned him into the legendary fighter he became.

Alexis Arguello, another top 50 all time fighter, was KO'ed in his fifth pro fight and lost the next match via decision. Another doper.

Bernard Hopkins (lost his pro debut), Juan Manuel Marquez and his brother Rafael (both lost their pro debut), Nonito Donaire (lost his second fight) are some recent examples of guys who suffered early setbacks in their careers who went on to have stellar, PFP and HOF worthy runs.

But you obviously aren't just talking out of your ass so please... do tell us more.

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/5944495360/hCA5082B6/

Yes those are great examples, but they are the exception.

The "typical" top fighters usually have RIDICULOUS amateur pedigrees(100-200+ fights, few losses with no KO losses, multiple golden gloves, sometimes olympics) and are undefeated in the pro ranks for 20+ fights with a high KO ratio.

The suspicious thing with Pacquiao is that he became so much better later in his career, and he gained power as he moved up, two things that are very rare in sports. Not saying he juiced, it's just suspicious. Honestly I think it was a case of riding a really good win streak which involves good fight choices, still being in your prime, skyrocketing confidence, building a ferocious reputation, and handling the fame/big lights better than others. Being "in the zone," so to speak. It happens. He fell back to Earth though.

[DonDadda59]

Lost like two of his first ten to nobodies in the Philippines it's highly irregular in modern times. Moreover, I would think there's a big difference between losing your debut, and losing 2 of your first 10-15 after you've gotten by nerves or experience of a couple fights. That aside, dude refused to be tested. It's very likely he was on roids no matter was his stans say.

Shut the f*ck up :lol


Yes those are great examples, but they are the exception.

The "typical" top fighters usually have RIDICULOUS amateur pedigrees(100-200+ fights, few losses with no KO losses, multiple golden gloves, sometimes olympics) and are undefeated in the pro ranks for 20+ fights with a high KO ratio.

Right and there are fighters who don't have training from the crib like some privileged guys. Some grow up fighting in the streets or in prison, ie, Pac and BHop, and they don't have the the stellar amateur golden gloves, olympics, etc background. They rely purely on their natural gifts until they meet tutors who smooth out the edges and match skill with said talent. So they're still learning by the time they start their pro careers. Manny was 90 lbs soaking wet and malnourished when he started his pro career at 16 years old, an age when most fighters are just getting their feet wet in local tournaments with headgear on. He was fighting grown men just to eat. How can anyone look at Pac post meeting Roach and Pac in his teens and not see the difference?

Roids teaches you footwork, slipping, countering, etc? :biggums:


The suspicious thing with Pacquiao is that he became so much better later in his career, and he gained power as he moved up, two things that are very rare in sports. Not saying he juiced, it's just suspicious. Honestly I think it was a case of riding a really good win streak which involves good fight choices, still being in your prime, skyrocketing confidence, building a ferocious reputation, and handling the fame/big lights better than others. Being "in the zone," so to speak. It happens. He fell back to Earth though.

When was the last time Pac KO'd someone? Speed is his advantage, always has been. People are acting like he's knocking out guys bigger than him with one shot every time he steps in the ring. And for the record, he signed up for VADA testing. Had random testing for the Rios fight, which he won in dominant fashion without breaking a sweat. So why are people still talking about testing like it's an issue? Hasn't been for years. Vacations, splits, and 'self preservation' are the reasons for the season.

[OldSkoolball#52]

I have to side with those who think it looks suspicious.

My knowledge of boxing is limited and the evidence is circumstantial so I'd never make any declarations, but my speculation is that in today's world of athletics, sudden spikes in performance should be met with an initial skepticism. Then you ADD the fact that this dude was lookin at like a 50 million dollar payday as long as he took a simple blood test before the fight, and he wouldn't do it?


It's exceedingly sketchy.

[OldSkoolball#52]

Roids teaches you footwork, slipping, countering, etc? :biggums:



Are those the things Pac is known for within boxing?

[lefthook00]

Shut the f*ck up :lol



Right and there are fighters who don't have training from the crib like some privileged guys. Some grow up fighting in the streets or in prison, ie, Pac and BHop, and they don't have the the stellar amateur golden gloves, olympics, etc background. They rely purely on their natural gifts until they meet tutors who smooth out the edges and match skill with said talent. So they're still learning by the time they start their pro careers. Manny was 90 lbs soaking wet and malnourished when he started his pro career at 16 years old, an age when most fighters are just getting their feet wet in local tournaments with headgear on. He was fighting grown men just to eat. How can anyone look at Pac post meeting Roach and Pac in his teens and not see the difference?

Roids teaches you footwork, slipping, countering, etc? :biggums:



When was the last time Pac KO'd someone? Speed is his advantage, always has been. People are acting like he's knocking out guys bigger than him with one shot every time he steps in the ring. And for the record, he signed up for VADA testing. Had random testing for the Rios fight, which he won in dominant fashion without breaking a sweat. So why are people still talking about testing like it's an issue? Hasn't been for years. Vacations, splits, and 'self preservation' are the reasons for the season.

Yeah he has always had success with bigger, stronger but slower brawlers. It may seem like he is at a disadvantage for the average fan, but it's an advantage for people like him and Mayweather.

I kind of take back what I said about Manny's power. I'm still undecided on it. It seems to vary way too much, depending on who he fights and how he hits them.

[BrooklynZoo]

I have to side with those who think it looks suspicious.

My knowledge of boxing is limited and the evidence is circumstantial so I'd never make any declarations, but my speculation is that in today's world of athletics, sudden spikes in performance should be met with an initial skepticism. Then you ADD the fact that this dude was lookin at like a 50 million dollar payday as long as he took a simple blood test before the fight, and he wouldn't do it?


It's exceedingly sketchy.

they eventually made it well known that they would agree to the steroid testing

i hope this fight happens but i would like to see manny win a fight or two beforehand. to come off a controversial loss and then a vicious KO, id like manny to prove that hes still got it before the megafight.

[plowking]

Are those the things Pac is known for within boxing?

I was going to bring up the same point.

The whole post came off as a Pac fan trying hard to talk up his hero.

Fact is, hes never been know for his footwork, slipping or countering. :oldlol:

[DonDadda59]

I was going to bring up the same point.

The whole post came off as a Pac fan trying hard to talk up his hero.

Fact is, hes never been know for his footwork, slipping or countering. :oldlol:

Do you clowns even watch Boxing?

Pac has a skill set that no other boxer of his generation possesses. He has that darting in and out style and routinely uses his footspeed and yes... footwork, to turn his opponents to their weak side after... slipping their punches and... countering with a straight left of his own.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-96YGMJT0e7s/UpGHl6j63sI/AAAAAAAA8FU/k0_3Jl4EWVc/s1600/5.gif

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Lns9lewX1Is/UpGMTHVUF6I/AAAAAAAA8GU/nGKPuX9Z944/s1600/12.gif

You blind, son? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCZrOPrP-3o) :biggums:

I know you guys have this image of a pint sized roid freak knocking out giants with a single punch every time he gets in the ring. I'd suggest you actually watch the fights and pay attention to the nuances.

[Beatlezz]

I am definitely not a boxing aficionado, but what I do know is boxers don't get knocked out by nobodies when they're coming up and then magically go on to become one of the greats ever. That is highly suspicious, combined with his refusal to take tests, and his recent poor performances since.

I have to side with those who think it looks suspicious.

My knowledge of boxing is limited and the evidence is circumstantial so I'd never make any declarations, but my speculation is that in today's world of athletics, sudden spikes in performance should be met with an initial skepticism. Then you ADD the fact that this dude was lookin at like a 50 million dollar payday as long as he took a simple blood test before the fight, and he wouldn't do it?


It's exceedingly sketchy.

/ :applause:

[plowking]

Do you clowns even watch Boxing?

Pac has a skill set that no other boxer of his generation possesses. He has that darting in and out style and routinely uses his footspeed and yes... footwork, to turn his opponents to their weak side after... slipping their punches and... countering with a straight left of his own.


I know you guys have this image of a pint sized roid freak knocking out giants with a single punch every time he gets in the ring. I'd suggest you actually watch the fights and pay attention to the nuances.

Yeah, you're the only one that watches. :rolleyes:

You can post as many gifs as you want, its simply not something he is a great at. The facts are, Manny gets hit a lot, and always has in his fights. Its his great chin, punching power, weird angles and cardio which he is known for.

His head bobbing and footwork is always something that has been criticized when he looks poor in fights. Nearly every Marquez fight its brought up.

Its like me posting gifs of Dwyane Wade hitting 3's and pretending hes good at them.

[rezznor]

I was going to bring up the same point.

The whole post came off as a Pac fan trying hard to talk up his hero.

Fact is, hes never been know for his footwork, slipping or countering. :oldlol:
he is known for his footwork and hitting at odd angles that other fighters aren't used to. he is also known for his power though.

[Dwade305]

Manny is not a flawless fighter, one of the mistakes he was doing vs Rios in rounds 2-4 is going straight back, like his first knockdown vs Marquez. He got caught with a Rios left hook in one of those(and some other shots aswell like jabs that were partially blocked), but he took the shot well. He did later admit he was hurt there. Defensively, he didnt seem to be in all his senses, especially in the earlier rounds when Rios was bringing heat. Considering the speed advantage, this should have been a RJJ vs Pazienza type domination.

[LJJ]

Lol at cats in this thread arguing that Pac's career trajectory and other circumstances surrounding him isn't at all indicative of PED use.

[flipogb]

he is known for his footwork and hitting at odd angles that other fighters aren't used to. he is also known for his power though.
that fly on your avi looks real as f***, lol

[The Iron Fist]

I have to side with those who think it looks suspicious.

My knowledge of boxing is limited and the evidence is circumstantial so I'd never make any declarations, but my speculation is that in today's world of athletics, sudden spikes in performance should be met with an initial skepticism. Then you ADD the fact that this dude was lookin at like a 50 million dollar payday as long as he took a simple blood test before the fight, and he wouldn't do it?


It's exceedingly sketchy.

What exactly is this sudden spike in performance you speak of?

Manny has been a world champion since the late 90s.

[The Iron Fist]

Yeah, you're the only one that watches. :rolleyes:

You can post as many gifs as you want, its simply not something he is a great at. The facts are, Manny gets hit a lot, and always has in his fights. Its his great chin, punching power, weird angles and cardio which he is known for.

His head bobbing and footwork is always something that has been criticized when he looks poor in fights. Nearly every Marquez fight its brought up.

Its like me posting gifs of Dwyane Wade hitting 3's and pretending hes good at them.

If you actually knew what you were talking about, you'd realize that when Manny makes a concerted effort to use his feet, he does very well. However, thats just not the style in which he likes to engage. For the majority of his career, hes preferred to get in there and bang. But when he faces the bigger guys, he has always had great footwork, darting in and out to hit, and avoid punches. When he fights guys his own size, hes more stationary.

[plowking]

If you actually knew what you were talking about, you'd realize that when Manny makes a concerted effort to use his feet, he does very well. However, thats just not the style in which he likes to engage. For the majority of his career, hes preferred to get in there and bang. But when he faces the bigger guys, he has always had great footwork, darting in and out to hit, and avoid punches. When he fights guys his own size, hes more stationary.

I do know what I'm talking about, and I'd say I've watched as many fights as most true boxing fans on here.

You're whole post reeks of what Jordan fans do for basketball... "He was a great three point shooter, but he didn't want to sacrifice other parts of his game"...
Well, you said it yourself, its not something he used to his advantage often, hence its not one of his most natural strengths. You fight to your strengths, and you keep your strengths constant throughout.
Your post alone proved my point.

[The Iron Fist]

I do know what I'm talking about, and I'd say I've watched as many fights as most true boxing fans on here.

You're whole post reeks of what Jordan fans do for basketball... "He was a great three point shooter, but he didn't want to sacrifice other parts of his game"...
Well, you said it yourself, its not something he used to his advantage often, hence its not one of his most natural strengths. You fight to your strengths, and you keep your strengths constant throughout.
Your post alone proved my point.

Your point was that he didn't have great footwork.

I just showed you he did. Dude fights like Kobe plays ball, his way. Of course they have the tools to do it, "the smart way", or "the right way", but they choose to do things their way.

So, no, I didn't prove your point, I shoved it up your ass.

[IGOTGAME]

Your point was that he didn't have great footwork.

I just showed you he did. Dude fights like Kobe plays ball, his way. Of course they have the tools to do it, "the smart way", or "the right way", but they choose to do things their way.

So, no, I didn't prove your point, I shoved it up your ass.

Kobe is one of the most technically sound basketball players to ever grace this earth. Please don't compare then in anything requiring technicality.

[lefthook00]

I think you guys are arguing two different things. Footspeed and footwork are two different things in my opinion. Manny has the best footspeed in the game, the only fighter I can think of in the same league is a younger Floyd. Manny, while incredibly fast on his feet, is off balance a lot when he attacks, which is indicative of poor footwork. He has corrected this somewhat, he doesn't lunge with his left as much, turns his opponent better, protects himself from his opponents right hand better after attacking, developed his counters, etc. Developing his right hook throughout the years has helped balance his attack as well.

[Lebron23]

Manny Pacquiao is one of the best athletes in boxing. I doubt he's using Peds or roid in his last few fights. He even passed the Vada testing. He was already a boxing champion at age 20 when he defeated Cha Chai Sasakul for the WBC/Lineal Flyweight Championship. He improved his boxing skills after training with Freddie Roach.

He's still going to be Mayweather's toughest opponent because of his funky style and in his latest fight with rios he showed some of his boxing skills, And he avoided being a slugger.

The guy has the 2nd best resume after Bernard Hopkins, and arguably the best fighter in the 2000's.

PS:

Iron fist is an idiot, and the dumbest poster in this thread. If i I ever see your chubby face, I'll kick your fat @$$ back to the toilet bowl.

[lefthook00]

Lolll

[Lebron_23]

Then I will wait for you to come out of the sewer and kick your @$$ again. :mad:

[The Iron Fist]

Kobe is one of the most technically sound basketball players to ever grace this earth. Please don't compare then in anything requiring technicality.

The comparison isn't based on technical aspects though. You're just too stupid to understand what it is based on.

[The Iron Fist]

Manny Pacquiao is one of the best athletes in boxing. I doubt he's using Peds or roid in his last few fights. He even passed the Vada testing. He was already a boxing champion at age 20 when he defeated Cha Chai Sasakul for the WBC/Lineal Flyweight Championship. He improved his boxing skills after training with Freddie Roach.

He's still going to be Mayweather's toughest opponent because of his funky style and in his latest fight with rios he showed some of his boxing skills, And he avoided being a slugger.

The guy has the 2nd best resume after Bernard Hopkins, and arguably the best fighter in the 2000's.

PS:

Iron fist is an idiot, and the dumbest poster in this thread. If i I ever see your chubby face, I'll kick your fat @$$ back to the toilet bowl.


13115 Ontario Ave. Ontario, CA 91761

Anytime you're in the area, stop on by.

[magic chiongson]

Manny Pacquiao is one of the best athletes in boxing. I doubt he's using Peds or roid in his last few fights. He even passed the Vada testing. He was already a boxing champion at age 20 when he defeated Cha Chai Sasakul for the WBC/Lineal Flyweight Championship. He improved his boxing skills after training with Freddie Roach.

He's still going to be Mayweather's toughest opponent because of his funky style and in his latest fight with rios he showed some of his boxing skills, And he avoided being a slugger.

The guy has the 2nd best resume after Bernard Hopkins, and arguably the best fighter in the 2000's.

PS:

Iron fist is an idiot, and the dumbest poster in this thread. If i I ever see your chubby face, I'll kick your fat @$$ back to the toilet bowl.

:D

[SCREWstonRockets]

/ :applause:

:lol no point in havjng a serious discussion about boxing with people who only watch boxing once or twice a year when their favorite fighter fights.

Nobody is saying Manny is the GOAT or the second coming of Pernell Whitaker. But he came from being a one dimensional boxer to a very refined boxer-puncher. Mike Tyson won't be on any top lists but he's one of the most popular and recognizable fighters because people loved to watch him fight. Same with Manny, people love to watch the little guy get in the ring and let his hands go.