Whos Clutcher: Ray Allen or Derek Fisher

[PianoMan]

http://www.celticstown.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/ray-allen-celebrating-against-chicago-bulls.jpg Orhttp://shavarross.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Derek-Fisher-Re-Signs-Lakers.jpg

[Derka]

Ray got us home court in Game 2 last year.

Fish took it right the hell back in Game 3.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Haven't looked it up but pretty sure Allen has hit more game-winners.

[Harison]

Ray, ofc.

[mayo'sgrizz]

like ray allen way more but gotta go with fisher over their careers

[opps]

Fisher easily

How can a guy be clutch shooting 0% on 0/13 shooting in Game 3 of the FINALS & 3/14 in Game 7 :facepalm

[Derka]

Fisher easily

How can a guy be clutch shooting 0% on 0/13 shooting in Game 3 of the FINALS & 3/14 in Game 7 :facepalm

You're being a bit narrow there, since his clutch shooting in Game 2 put the Celtics in a position to take home court advantage.

[Rashard]

I'll say Fisher. He's been doing it for years on the NBA's greatest stage. Ray Allen only started playing for championships 3 years ago. Fisher was amazing in the '01 playoff run. We all remember .04. Then his HUGE 3 pointers against the Magic in the '09 finals. His 4th quarter performance against the Celtics in game 3 in Boston that swung homecourt back in the Lakers favor. Lastly his HUGE three in game 7 that swung momentum in the Lakers favor as they went on to win that game and the '10 Finals. While im sure Ray has more regular season game winners, I dont think he's hit as many huge shots as Fisher has in the biggest of games - playoffs and finals. Then again I could be wrong. Have'nt followed Allen all that much over the course of his career.

[PianoMan]

Fisher easily

How can a guy be clutch shooting 0% on 0/13 shooting in Game 3 of the FINALS & 3/14 in Game 7 :facepalm
Cant just go off one game

[Bigsmoke]

Ray Allen... easy

[sagr32]

I'll say Fisher. He's been doing it for years on the NBA's greatest stage. Ray Allen only started playing for championships 3 years ago. Fisher was amazing in the '01 playoff run. We all remember .04. Then his HUGE 3 pointers against the Magic in the '09 finals. His 4th quarter performance against the Celtics in game 3 in Boston that swung homecourt back in the Lakers favor. Lastly his HUGE three in game 7 that swung momentum in the Lakers favor as they went on to win that game and the '10 Finals. While im sure Ray has more regular season game winners, I dont think he's hit as many huge shots as Fisher has in the biggest of games - playoffs and finals. Then again I could be wrong. Have'nt followed Allen all that much over the course of his career.
:applause::applause: Fish Comes Up big right when LA needs it.

[Kurosawa0]

I'll go with Fisher. Close call, but Fisher just seems like "that guy." He's the new Robert Horry.

[bokes15]

I'll say Fisher. He's been doing it for years on the NBA's greatest stage. Ray Allen only started playing for championships 3 years ago. Fisher was amazing in the '01 playoff run. We all remember .04. Then his HUGE 3 pointers against the Magic in the '09 finals. His 4th quarter performance against the Celtics in game 3 in Boston that swung homecourt back in the Lakers favor. Lastly his HUGE three in game 7 that swung momentum in the Lakers favor as they went on to win that game and the '10 Finals. While im sure Ray has more regular season game winners, I dont think he's hit as many huge shots as Fisher has in the biggest of games - playoffs and finals. Then again I could be wrong. Have'nt followed Allen all that much over the course of his career.
But that kind of boils down to the fact that Fisher has had a lot more opportunities as well.

[cgr1zzly]

um......... fisher. Lets think about it. Ray allen is obviously the more skilled player. supposedly has the best jumpshot in the league. Wouldnt his clutch shots come as being expected???? while fisher whos a GOOD player, not a star like ray ray, hits shots that are unexpected, and does it at relatively the same rate ray allen does.

[Killbot]

Ray Allen.

WTF are people smoking when they mention Fisher?

[thejumpa]

Ray. He has done as the #1 guy many times, during the regular season many times, and during the playoffs many times. Fisher is more of a one incredibly clutch shot kind of guy. Ray can get hot and light you up for 30-35 easy if he get's going.

[imnew09]

Fisher.

Fisher is the "guy" you want to pass the ball to during big shots moments.
Even though Ray is the best shooter, but he's not better than Fisher during "clutch" shots.

[Real Men Wear Green]

um......... fisher. Lets think about it. Ray allen is obviously the more skilled player. supposedly has the best jumpshot in the league. Wouldnt his clutch shots come as being expected???? while fisher whos a GOOD player, not a star like ray ray, hits shots that are unexpected, and does it at relatively the same rate ray allen does.
All that matters is that you hit them. That's what determines whether or not you are clutch, and how clutch. Is Robert Horry more clutch than Reggie Miller? And the fact that Allen is known to be the more dangerous player and thus the bigger target for defenses (especially before he came to Boston) just makes him more impressive. Fisher isn't even the most clutch shooter on his own team, and if defenses were really focused on him he'd get nothing. He certainly gets respect for cashing in on the opportunities he's presented with but lets not make him out to be more than he really is.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Ray Allen.

WTF are people smoking when they mention Fisher?
"Purple" haze.

[pete's montreux]

Ray Allen hit more clutch shots in a single series than Fisher has his entire career.

[Duranthebest]

In Allen's 13 or 14year career, I've seen him hit maybe 1 or 2 "game winning jumpers" in 1-on-1 situations. If he isn't coming off a screen, he's useless in clutch situations.

Give me Fisher.

[swe_suns]

I think I'm going with Fisher on this one. The thing is, Allen is much more consistent in the sense that he plays pretty well throughout the season and keeps it up in the playoffs (yes he has some 0-7 games etc but not as often as Fisher).

Fisher on the other hand can SUCK very bad during the regular season or like 46 minutes of a game and then suddenly he has the ability to knock down the 3pt shot. It's crazy, the last one I remember was the one against Miami last year (u know the game with Kobe's ridiculous gamewinner over Wade). Also he has done this so many times against the Suns and also did it in the 09 finals and 10 finals.

[pete's montreux]

I don't get how Fisher sucking in the regular season and playing well in the post-season is a good thing.

[Killbot]

All that matters is that you hit them. That's what determines whether or not you are clutch, and how clutch. Is Robert Horry more clutch than Reggie Miller? And the fact that Allen is known to be the more dangerous player and thus the bigger target for defenses (especially before he came to Boston) just makes him more impressive. Fisher isn't even the most clutch shooter on his own team, and if defenses were really focused on him he'd get nothing. He certainly gets respect for cashing in on the opportunities he's presented with but lets not make him out to be more than he really is.

Exactly.
Ray Allen when he was with the Sonics was the first option. The best perimeter defender of the opposing team would be on Allen, while Fisher gets secondary one.
Usually it's Kobe doing the work in the 4th quarter and not Fisher.

OH and http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm
That's just game winning shots. Sure Fisher FG% is 1.5% greater, but he shot less. It's easier to get high percentages with less shots.

[Mr Clutch Melo]

I don't get how Fisher sucking in the regular season and playing well in the post-season is a good thing.

He sucks in the playoffs too then he makes a couple of big plays and people hype him up despite him playing bad through out the playoffs.

[ProfessorMurder]

Ray and it's not close.

[bokes15]

Ray and it's not close.
this

[cgr1zzly]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DZOKaPHuOU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySqKwcyVd3I&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzVBPO0YjGw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iK2PkBn7iA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGDMOh8YB2U&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TdZHffwOF8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWerZsJqZAY&feature=related


DO I WIN THE INTERNETS.

[C-Webb4]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DZOKaPHuOU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySqKwcyVd3I&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzVBPO0YjGw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iK2PkBn7iA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGDMOh8YB2U&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TdZHffwOF8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWerZsJqZAY&feature=related


DO I WIN THE INTERNETS.
Or.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x99mER-dzFw

And I guarantee you it took me 1/10th of the time that you took to find all of those. :oldlol:

[cgr1zzly]

lol. how many were in non playoff games, or when the game was tied???

[C-Webb4]

lol. how many were in non playoff games, or when the game was tied???
How many times did Ray Allen play with people like Shaq or Kobe? LOL at people comparing a role playing spot up shooter to inarguably the greatest distance shooter of all time.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Or.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x99mER-dzFw

And I guarantee you it took me 1/10th of the time that you took to find all of those. :oldlol:
I wouldn't be shocked if Allen had as many game-winning/tying shots off of Paul Pierce assists as Fisher has had his entire career.

[shootingcomets]

ray allen easily... fisher is only good enough for 1 miracle heave at the end of the game and usually on pass outs by kobe, gasol or in the past shaq

ray allen can provide enough points to keep you in the game and then win it at the end

[cgr1zzly]

Are you retarded? ray allen GETS OPEN SCREENS because of the damn players he has...


their was a shitload of regular season clutch shots.... Boy did ray allen really show up that last game. you know game 7?


isnt it ironic as hell that the lakers have kobe, yet the guy hitting the main clutch shots in the finals is fisher??? that actually strengthens my arguement.

lets be honest, finals game. you need a clutch 3 to tie the game, who do you go with , allen or fisher. Key word "finals" not regular season, and not the game is tied, so if i miss it dont matter type shots.

fishers 0.4 sec shot is better than any shot ray allen has or will ever have.

[Real Men Wear Green]

How many times did Ray Allen play with people like Shaq or Kobe? LOL at people comparing a role playing spot up shooter to inarguably the greatest distance shooter of all time.
Wouldn't go that far. He might be the greatest but Miller, Bird, and West all have strong arguments.

[wpdougie2180]

lol. how many were in non playoff games, or when the game was tied???

I saw 5 in playoff games in that top 10 and in the fisher highlights a couple didn't lead to wins (if we're doing that I can say Ray hit a big 3 in game 7 to put them down 3 at end)

[Killbot]

lol. how many were in non playoff games, or when the game was tied???

:roll:

Ray Allen scored than just the game winner when they showed that in the Top 10 clutch.

Ray Allen on the 8th one faced against the Utah Jazz and hit a couple of clutch shots to bring the Sonics back up against the Jazz. It appeared that the Sonics were going to lose the game, but Ray had the hot hand.
Ray Allen against the Chicago Bulls game 6 was when Ray hit a bunch of clutch shots including one against Noah contested in the right hand corner.
Ray Allen against Chicago Bulls game 2 was when he light up and he and Ben Gordon made a showdown.
#4 is explainable already
#3 when Ray faced against Charlotte Bobcats. Ray shot 3 other 3-pointers in 4th quarter through Double overtime before he made that game winner against them in double overtime.
#2 is when Ray shot 8 3's between 4th quarter and double overtime against Phoenix Suns.

[C-Webb4]

Wouldn't go that far. He might be the greatest but Miller, Bird, and West all have strong arguments.
Ok I don't know about the rest of the guys, but Reggie has said multiple times that he considers Ray the greatest shooter of all time. Bird probably wouldn't go that far because we all know humility isn't his strong point. Jerry West as good as he was, I don't think he's really in the discussion just due to his era and lack of volume. But regardless you are missing the point.

[Killbot]

Are you retarded? ray allen GETS OPEN SCREENS because of the damn players he has...


their was a shitload of regular season clutch shots.... Boy did ray allen really show up that last game. you know game 7?


isnt it ironic as hell that the lakers have kobe, yet the guy hitting the main clutch shots in the finals is fisher??? that actually strengthens my arguement.

lets be honest, finals game. you need a clutch 3 to tie the game, who do you go with , allen or fisher. Key word "finals" not regular season, and not the game is tied, so if i miss it dont matter type shots.

fishers 0.4 sec shot is better than any shot ray allen has or will ever have.

Ray Allen's off the ball movement is superb and is the reason why he tends to be always open for 3's. That and his quick jumpshot appears to make him wide open.
Fisher has played more playoff games because of Kobe and Shaq while Ray Allen was with the Sonics who failed to build around Ray Allen with excellent talent. Only person good was Rashard Lewis. The others were average.
Kobe has hit more shots in the 4th quarter against Fisher and he's the #1 man to bring the Lakers to victory. If Fisher was more clutch, then why don't you see Fisher having the ball?
Tying the game with a 3-pt shot is CLUTCH, you dumb fck.
Fisher's 0.4 sec is lucky. Ray has the quickest jumpshot and last I check, I don't think Ray's jumpshot is 0.4 seconds fast. That means Fisher's gamewinner was 1) Fluke and 2) Lucky.

GTFO with that BS.

[cgr1zzly]

I said, how many were in the finals, or playoffs... im not talking about regular season games. Fisher is as clutch as it gets in playoffs and finals games regarding a one last shot oppurtunity. If your talking about who is the better player and gives you a better chance to be in the game or win the game in a 48 min span, obviously ray allen is. If your talking about a finals game 7 down by a few and you need a big bucket to save your lives... fisher is the man.

[cgr1zzly]

LOL. how mad are you? im sure you were patting on allens nuts during his 0 for 13 performance Lmfao .

[Real Men Wear Green]

Are you retarded? ray allen GETS OPEN SCREENS because of the damn players he has... So you're criticizing the fact that screens are set for Ray Allen? And/or complaining it's unfair because Fisher has only got to play with Shaq, Kobe, Gasol, Malone...:wtf:


their was a shitload of regular season clutch shots.... Boy did ray allen really show up that last game. you know game 7?When Ray Allen has a bad playoff game, it is indeed noteworthy. Of course, Fisher has bad playoff games all the time, and they aren't noteworthy at all. Like how you forgot Fisher's performance in Games 2 and 5.


isnt it ironic as hell that the lakers have kobe, yet the guy hitting the main clutch shots in the finals is fisher??? that actually strengthens my arguement.
Do we really need to go over which one of those two has hit more clutch shots? Isn't Fisher vs. Allen bad enough already? Bottom line, if Fisher was defended the way Bryant gets defended he would have a 0 ppg average.


lets be honest, finals game. you need a clutch 3 to tie the game, who do you go with , allen or fisher. Key word "finals" not regular season, and not the game is tied, so if i miss it dont matter type shots.
Allen. Easily.

fishers 0.4 sec shot is better than any shot ray allen has or will ever have.
Fisher's 0.4 was a game-winner. Allen has hit a lot of game-winners. A lot more than Fisher.

[cgr1zzly]

How Many Game Winners Does He Have In The Finals !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!? Lol

[ProfessorMurder]

I said, how many were in the finals, or playoffs... im not talking about regular season games. Fisher is as clutch as it gets in playoffs and finals games regarding a one last shot oppurtunity. If your talking about who is the better player and gives you a better chance to be in the game or win the game in a 48 min span, obviously ray allen is. If your talking about a finals game 7 down by a few and you need a big bucket to save your lives... fisher is the man.

There is nobody I would rather have take a last second shot than Ray, other than Bird/Jordan.

[AMISTILLILL]

LOL @ people in this thread completely unaware that Ray Allen played clutch basketball before he was in Boston.

[cgr1zzly]

reggie miller? robert horry? Kobe bryant? Kareem adbul jabbar with the sky hook? Chauncey billups? Dirk nowitzki ? Deron williams?

[bokes15]

How Many Game Winners Does He Have In The Finals !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!? Lol
How many times has he played in the NBA finals and how many has Fisher? What a ridiculous thread and a stupid question.

[shootingcomets]

Are you retarded? ray allen GETS OPEN SCREENS because of the damn players he has...


their was a shitload of regular season clutch shots.... Boy did ray allen really show up that last game. you know game 7?


isnt it ironic as hell that the lakers have kobe, yet the guy hitting the main clutch shots in the finals is fisher??? that actually strengthens my arguement.

lets be honest, finals game. you need a clutch 3 to tie the game, who do you go with , allen or fisher. Key word "finals" not regular season, and not the game is tied, so if i miss it dont matter type shots.

fishers 0.4 sec shot is better than any shot ray allen has or will ever have.

have you seen that 0.4sec shot properly?? if you have you would agree that shot is just pure luck. it was just one of the 1 in 1000000 shots that happened to go in

[StacksOnDeck]

Fisher. Look at it this way, Fisher is just a role player while Ray is obviously more than that(not this season obviously). Ray coming in the clutch was expected while Fisher could take 2 shots the whole game and somehow come through the 4th. It's hard to pick to be honest which is why the thread is split into Fisher/Ray. Being clutch has to be defined.

[cgr1zzly]

ray allen is not clutcher than derek fisher in the finals or even playoff games. how is that fisher has atleast 5 clutch plays in finals games. Against 3 DIFFERENT TEAMS. ! Ray allen hits clutch 3s against bobcats LOL, against the jazz in a reg season game?


to be fair what he did against the bulls was amazing. But still the Bulls ?? come on man.

[cgr1zzly]

LOLOLOL, you kids. IT doesnt matter how it happens, a clutch player will not accept a loss, and no matter under what circumstances hell find a way for his team to win or to survive LMFAO.

Cant believe kids are still calling that luck. But if kobe shot that, or ray allen , it would be ZOMGZ YOU BELIEVE THAT?? SO CLUTCH ?!?

[shootingcomets]

this thread should really be horry or fisher and i would pick horry

[bokes15]

have you seen that 0.4sec shot properly?? if you have you would agree that shot is just pure luck. it was just one of the 1 in 1000000 shots that happened to go in
And not only that, it actually caused a new NBA rule about the timing of a jump shot to be put in place because they believed there's no possible way he was able to catch, turn, and shoot the ball in 0.4 seconds.

[StacksOnDeck]

Fisher came up big in the Finals, especially game 3 when he basically won the 4th quarter for LA. Ray had two REALLY bad games. Fish was obviously the more clutch player in that series. Both of them don't create their shots in the clutch though.

[west]

Bottom line, you just don't play Ray Allen the same way you play Derek Fisher, i bet Derek Fisher couldn't even get the shot off if he is the go-to guy.

[cgr1zzly]

your retarded, the rule is 0.3 seconds. And it was well known before that game. Oh and didnt david lee tip in a shot with 0.1 seconds left? looool

[StacksOnDeck]

Bottom line, you just don't play Ray Allen the same way you play Derek Fisher, i bet Derek Fisher couldn't even get the shot off if he is the go-to guy.

Since when does Ray create his own shots? I don't even remember one time where he actually created his own shot for a game winner or a clutch shot. Thread has nothing to do with go-to-guy.

[pete's montreux]

your retarded, the rule is 0.3 seconds. And it was well known before that game. Oh and didnt david lee tip in a shot with 0.1 seconds left? looool

The rule is you can't catch and shoot, lobs and alley oops are legal. loooool

Idiot.

[west]

Since when does Ray create his own shots? I don't even remember one time where he actually created his own shot for a game winner or a clutch shot.
His off-ball movement?

[StacksOnDeck]

His off-ball movement?

That's creating a shot for himself? :oldlol:

He gets screens from at least two teammates. :facepalm

[bokes15]

you dumb ****, 0.3 seconds is enough to shoot, anything lower is a lob or alley oop.
Thus proving you know absolutely nothing. The rule was changed BECAUSE of Fisher, BECAUSE of that very play. San Antonio complained about it and they were right. There's no way to go through a 3 part motion like that in 0.4 seconds. They even did one of those basketball and science things last year where they tested to see if Jason Kapono could get off a shot in 0.3 seconds and he had to try it several times. The one time that he did do it he did some volley ball/shot put type of thing just to get it out of his hands quickly enough but a full catch, turn and shot, is clearly not possible, dumbass.

[ProfessorMurder]

you dumb ****, 0.3 seconds is enough to shoot, anything lower is a lob or alley oop.

I don't think you understand the concept of time.

[west]

That's creating a shot for himself? :oldlol:

He gets screens from at least two teammates. :facepalm
I agree Ray is not the type of guy create something out of nothing, my point is defense focus on Ray, Kobe etc, not Fisher.

[bokes15]

I don't think you understand the concept of time.
Join date Nov. 2010. That account was obviously created by a regular just for the sole purpose of being an idiot and trolling.

[yeaaaman]

Since when does Ray create his own shots? I don't even remember one time where he actually created his own shot for a game winner or a clutch shot. Thread has nothing to do with go-to-guy.

It really doesn't take long to do a simple youtube search.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1KlPerGzBY

[BlackJordan]

i got Derek

[thejumpa]

That's creating a shot for himself? :oldlol:

He gets screens from at least two teammates. :facepalm

I know you starting watching basketball when Ray got to Boston, but try doing your research before you make a stupid comment. Ray is known as a great catch and shoot guy, but his career has been made off of him creating for himself.

[StacksOnDeck]

I know you starting watching basketball when Ray got to Boston, but try doing your research before you make a stupid comment. Ray is known as a great catch and shoot guy, but his career has been made off of him creating for himself.

In the clutch retard? Look at the video, I saw only about 3 shots that he created for himself out of 15+. He's not typically a guy who creates for himself in the clutch. 90% of his game winners are from screens.

[Killbot]

In the clutch retard? Look at the video, I saw only about 3 shots that he created for himself out of 15+. He's not typically a guy who creates for himself in the clutch. 90% of his game winners are from screens.

Ray can create shots, but he doesn't do that often because he will become inefficient and that IS NOT his STRENGTH. His strength is off the ball movement by coming off the screens. The point in winning is to create high efficient shots and not to let players play hero ball. Games are won by TEAMS not by players. Ray is one of the greatest at coming off the ball.

Open shots >>>>> Contested shots. High efficiency and clutch shots count no matter if you are open or not. Clutch is defined at making shots in the last minutes of the game.
Ray gets himself open often due to good screening AND good off ball movement. There's a reason why only so few players can do what he can do.

Also, most of Fisher's clutch plays come from being assisted like Ray's. So clearly Allen is better.

[Killbot]

LOL. how mad are you? im sure you were patting on allens nuts during his 0 for 13 performance Lmfao .

I'm not on his nuts. It's the fact that you can't grasp this simple answer that it is Allen who is better in the clutch.

AND lol at me debunking your argument. Can't find a better response huh?

[StacksOnDeck]

Also, most of Fisher's clutch plays come from being assisted like Ray's. So clearly Allen is better.

That must be the dumbest argument ever.

[Killbot]

That must be the dumbest argument ever.

Ok. Then prove me wrong then. I'm willing to accept that statement is wrong if you can show me proof. It has to be a good sample size, too.

[FinishHim!]

That must be the dumbest argument ever.
I'd like to hear or see all the examples of shots Derrick f*cking fisher has created for himself off the dribble.

[Bigsmoke]

people are actually picking Fisher?

i'd rather have Ben Gordon taking the last shot before thinking about Fisher

[Killbot]

people are actually picking Fisher?

i'd rather have Ben Gordan taking the last shot before thinking about Fisher

It's either that purple haze like RMWG said or they haven't watched the NBA pre-2009.

[Bigsmoke]

It's either that purple haze like RMWG said or they haven't watched the NBA pre-2009.

Chauncey Billups
Gilbert Arenas
Baron Davis
Mike Bibby
Brandon Roy

there are SOOO many player that are more serious in the clutch than Fisher but not even on the level as Ray Allen.

[nbastatus]

That's creating a shot for himself? :oldlol:

He gets screens from at least two teammates. :facepalm
Yes retard. It's not that easy to get a open shot in the last minute of the game when the other team knows you're the best shooter on the floor.

[zizozain]

It's either that purple haze like RMWG said or they haven't watched the NBA pre-2009.
remember it's the ''NBA Forum'' :-)

Ray Ray it is

[nbastatus]

That must be the dumbest argument ever.
How so? You are using the same argument for Fisher.

[StacksOnDeck]

Yes retard. It's not that easy to get a open shot in the last minute of the game when the other team knows you're the best shooter on the floor.

You moron, his teammates set picks for him. Watch his game winners in Boston and he gets multiple screens for him. God, you're stupid.


How so? You are using the same argument for Fisher.

His arguments was that both don't create shots for themselves so Ray is better.

[Killbot]

You moron, his teammates set picks for him. Watch his game winners in Boston and he gets multiple screens for him. God, you're stupid.

.

His arguments was that both don't create shots for themselves so Ray is better.

Fisher gets assisted by teammates when he's wide open, so he doesn't create shots.

Still can't find evidence eh?

[Killbot]

remember it's the ''NBA Forum'' :-)

Ray Ray it is

You're right. :cheers:

Thanks for not having a blind viewpoint.

[FinishHim!]

You moron, his teammates set picks for him. Watch his game winners in Boston and he gets multiple screens for him. God, you're stupid.

.

His arguments was that both don't create shots for themselves so Ray is better.
No, his argument was that Fisher CAN'T create shots for himself, and he can't. Ray can and has in the past when he was the #1 option. It's like comparing Reggie Miller to Robert Horry. Utterly retarded.

[nbastatus]

You moron, his teammates set picks for him. Watch his game winners in Boston and he gets multiple screens for him. God, you're stupid.


Doesn't matter if your teammates give you multiple screens. It depends on the player to know how to get the open spot. There could be 2-3 players chasing after you even if multiple screens are set up.

[Monkey D Dragon]

Ray Allen Better Player Overall

Fisher is better Clutch Player that is what his mainly known for.

[Tha Catalyst]

In Allen's 13 or 14year career, I've seen him hit maybe 1 or 2 "game winning jumpers" in 1-on-1 situations. If he isn't coming off a screen, he's useless in clutch situations.

Give me Fisher.
Wow, ridiculously stupid comment, have you seen how ugly it is when fisher tries to take his defender 1-on-1 and create his own shot? His shot opportunities are usually the result of being open from defenses collapsing and as stupid as it sounds, defenses total concentration on Bryant in cluth situations. Bryant, Allen, Fisher, Anthony, you can't really go wrong with any of them in the clutch, although only Bryant and Anthony can effectively create their own shot when tightly guarded.

[C-Webb4]

Wow, ridiculously stupid comment, have you seen how ugly it is when fisher tries to take his defender 1-on-1 and create his own shot? His shot opportunities are usually the result of being open from defenses collapsing and as stupid as it sounds, defenses total concentration on Bryant in cluth situations. Bryant, Allen, Fisher, Anthony, you can't really go wrong with any of them in the clutch, although only Bryant and Anthony can effectively create their own shot when tightly guarded.
I think that comment pretty much proved to all of us that he hasn't watched any of Ray Allen pre-2007.

[Bigsmoke]

Ray Allen Better Player Overall

Fisher is better Clutch Player that is what his mainly known for.

that doesnt mean he's the best in the clutch though,.

that just means Fisher isnt good at anything else.

[Eldrunko247]

Ray on a consistent basis. Fisher's clutch shots are usually a bit more heroic though. He sets it up by stinking for three quarters first :lol

[Duranthebest]

How can a guy be clutch shooting 0% on 0/13 shooting in Game 3 of the FINALS & 3/14 in Game 7

Great point. Allen is always labeled as one of the goat shooters, but he aways has these horrendous shootings series. Not just games, but series.

[d.bball.guy]

playoffs - D-Fish
overall - Ray-Ray

[Duranthebest]

Since when does Ray create his own shots? I don't even remember one time where he actually created his own shot for a game winner or a clutch shot. Thread has nothing to do with go-to-guy.

When Allen played with the Bucks he hit a gamwinning 1 v 1 jumper. That's it. Ive never seen him pop a clutch shot with the D all over him without the assistance of a pick or screen from a teammate.

[Derka]

Or.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x99mER-dzFw

And I guarantee you it took me 1/10th of the time that you took to find all of those. :oldlol:

Yup, I'm sold.

[nek1477]

Yup, I'm sold.
yea coming from a celtic fan :oldlol:
Derek fisher has come threw with you needed him, ray ray maybe clutch, but derek has the will and the stones to take big shots, especially when you play alongside kobe, one of the best clutch playoff player.

[PowerGlove]

that doesnt mean he's the best in the clutch though,.

that just means Fisher isnt good at anything else.
:oldlol:

I dont see how how people are seriously picking fisher.

Allen's series against Chicago had more clutch(had to have shots) in it than Fisher's career. Fisher is the only player in NBA history who can be an absolute D-league player for 99% for the whole season and the one time he's open for a three late and makes it, people slop on his knob.

[Bigsmoke]

Ray is somewhere laughing right now

[C-Webb4]

yea coming from a celtic fan :oldlol:
Derek fisher has come threw with you needed him, ray ray maybe clutch, but derek has the will and the stones to take big shots, especially when you play alongside kobe, one of the best clutch playoff player.
I think you just answered the question.

[PianoMan]

Really good thread that i made. Different opinions. :cheers:

[blondie]

derek fisher by far

[Killbot]

Really good thread that i made. Different opinions. :cheers:

Not really. It's just stupid people not watching Ray Allen in his prime days and people with the "what has he done for me lately" mentality.

[Derka]

yea coming from a celtic fan :oldlol:
Derek fisher has come threw with you needed him, ray ray maybe clutch, but derek has the will and the stones to take big shots, especially when you play alongside kobe, one of the best clutch playoff player.

I'm not putting Fisher down in the slightest. I watched him bury us in Game 3 with a mixed amount of amazement and hatred, I assure you. The guy is most definitely a clutch performer.

But don't say Ray doesn't have "the will and the stones" to not take the big shot. He's proven he can take that shot AND hit that shot, as well. And its got nothing to do with me being a Celtics fan. Watch that video and see how many of those shots he hit as a Sonic before you say that to me.

[chris2010]

fisher

[pete's montreux]

fisher

Right as Ray hits two clutch threes in the 4th of a regular season game. Something Fisher has NEVER done.

[opps]

Right as Ray hits two clutch threes in the 4th of a regular season game. Something Fisher has NEVER done.

Never? Really? :facepalm

Anyways I much rather have a player be clutch when it matters the most. Fisher by far

[stridge]

How can a guy be clutch shooting 0% on 0/13 shooting in Game 3 of the FINALS & 3/14 in Game 7
or shooting 6/24 in a game 7 and have a career 41% shooting average in the finals


i dont understand how that guy can be called clutch either

[Killbot]

or shooting 6/24 in a game 7 and have a career 41% shooting average in the finals


i dont understand how that guy can be called clutch either

Is Kobe clutch?
You say yes?
Oh wait...LOOK BELOW

Kobe's NBA finals career stats average is:
FG% 41.2%(333/808)

Are you trying to say Kobe isn't clutch? :rolleyes:
You know damn well he is. If Ray isn't clutch, then Kobe isn't clutch. It's that simple.

[Duranthebest]

Are you guys really gonna see hit and compare Ray Allen to Kobe fcking Bryant now? Seriously?

[Killbot]

Are you guys really gonna see hit and compare Ray Allen to Kobe fcking Bryant now? Seriously?

He's using FG% to claim Ray is not clutch, so yes seriously.

Kobe is known as a clutch player. By logic, stridge is saying Kobe is not clutch.

[EnoughSaid]

Ray Allen today hit 2 clutch 3's in the final 4 minutes to have Boston come back!

[StacksOnDeck]

Right as Ray hits two clutch threes in the 4th of a regular season game. Something Fisher has NEVER done.

:oldlol:

Dumbest thing I ever heard. Bostons fans are so stupid. No surprise when their leader Real Women wear green is a mod and his stupidity level is through the roof.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Fisher of course. Thats what hes all about.

[d.bball.guy]

playoffs - D-Fish
overall - Ray-Ray
:roll: somebody negged me for stating my f*cking opinion?? dude f*ck off....:oldlol:

[Bigsmoke]

lmao

[riseagainst]

dam....

Fisher saved a couple games.
Ray Allen saved a potential dynasty/franchise from collapsing.

[andgar923]

http://www.celticstown.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/ray-allen-celebrating-against-chicago-bulls.jpg Orhttp://shavarross.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Derek-Fisher-Re-Signs-Lakers.jpg
If we consider defensive plays and other offensive plays in general, along with leadership it's Fish.

[tmacattack33]

Ray Allen is way better, period.

So in terms of absolute value it's Ray Allen.

Now, in terms of who's game steps up the most in the clutch, it might be Fisher. But who cares about that. He goes from a D- in normal times to a C in the clutch.

Ray Allen goes from a B+ to A-.

[305Baller]

Robert Horry shits on this thread.

[PickernRoller]

Fisher.

[Magic 32]

dam....

Fisher saved a couple games.
Ray Allen saved a potential dynasty/franchise from collapsing.

and someone's career...

http://www.gifsforum.com/images/gif/other/grand/a4864a8c7b003959b918e9e5911e65ed.gif