Prime Dirk Nowitzki or Prime Ben Wallace

[BEAST Griffin]

If you started a franchise, who would you rather have on your team?

Big man with bad offense but superb defense.

or

Big man with bad defense but superb offense.

I'd take Ben Wallace.

[New York Knicks]

lol?

[stephanieg]

It's a lot easier to find someone, or a group of someones, to replace Dirk's offense than Ben's dominant boarding and defense. On the other hand, it'd be a lot cheaper to buy Ben than it would be to buy Dirk.

[magnax1]

Dirk was probably better on defense then Wallace was on offense, but I'd still say they're somewhat close, though I think many will disagree.

[wakencdukest]

I'd take Ben. You could always find a small forward that camps out on the 3 point line.

[LEFT4DEAD]

Dirk! No doubt for me. And I'm a big fan of Big Ben.

[New York Knicks]

I'd take Ben. You could always find a small forward that camps out on the 3 point line.
Dirk's strength isn't his 3-point shooting. It's his ability to create opportunities for himself and others. That's why he gets the big bucks.

[DeronMillsap]

Big Ben because he was the anchor behind Detroit's success. 1 ring, 2 Finals and multiple ECF appearances.

[shootingcomets]

you're kidding right... dirk had been an franchise player for years

wallace is an undersized but very good defender with zero offence

[TrueRob]

Big Ben without question.

[New York Knicks]

Big Ben because he was the anchor behind Detroit's success. 1 ring, 2 Finals and multiple ECF appearances.
Is that why they won...59 games without win one season and went back to the ECF a number of times?

[New York Knicks]

People need to understand the difference between a defensive specialist and a franchise player.

[BlackJordan]

I got Ben.

[irondarts]

Dirk. But it IS closer than some people may think.

[Rose]

Ben. he anchored a defense won 3? dpoys. was an arguably an MVP in his prime. and all those ECF appearances. Plus it's not hard to find a shooting guard.

[BEAST Griffin]

People need to understand the difference between a defensive specialist and a franchise player.

Just because great defense doesn't get as much love and popularity as great offense doesn't make a great defensive player have a lower impact on the game overall than a great offensive player.

[magnax1]

People need to understand the difference between a defensive specialist and a franchise player.
And Dirk was basically a scoring specialist, not even a great passer or rebounder.

[DeronMillsap]

Is that why they won...59 games without win one season and went back to the ECF a number of times?
How did they do without Ben against Cavs and Celtics? :lol

[New York Knicks]

And Dirk was basically a scoring specialist, not even a great passer or rebounder.
He's not a scoring specialist. You make it sound like he's a spot-up shooter. He rebounds, defends, just like any other guy. Not on an elite level, but average at least. He can work the post and step out and shoot. He can pass and make plays as well.

[magnax1]

He's not a scoring specialist. You make it sound like he's a spot-up shooter. He rebounds, defends, just like any other guy. Not on an elite level, but average at least. He can work the post and step out and shoot. He can pass and make plays as well.
You completely missed the point sir.
:applause:
He's average, or below average at everything other then his scoring. Wallace is average or below at everything except rebounding and defense.

[New York Knicks]

How did they do without Ben against Cavs and Celtics? :lol
A better question would be how the Bulls did with Big Ben. Let's see....06-07 knocked out by the Pistons. 07-08....Bulls missed playoffs. Wallace was traded mid-season to the Cavs, who lost to....the Celtics. Defense is played by the team. You can pull out one piece and still play strong defense. Offense can be run by one player.

[New York Knicks]

You completely missed the point sir.
:applause:
He's average, or below average at everything other then his scoring. Wallace is average or below at everything except rebounding and defense.
Lol. No. I believe you missed the point. Dirk is better at defense than Wallace is on offense.

[Bigsmoke]

the one with the MVP

[New York Knicks]

People in this thread are just trying to act smart by going against popular opinion. Formulate your own thoughts instead of regurgitating tired cliches. Even a 1-on-1 comparison. Dirk would score on Wallace a hell of a lot more times than Wallace scores on Dirk.

[BEAST Griffin]

the one with the MVP

Dude, who's the girl in your avatar?

Me likey.

[LJJ]

Even though Nowitzki is clearly much better, all some people are able to see is this guy:

http://i52.tinypic.com/fc1ug7.jpg

versus this guy:
http://i53.tinypic.com/1z2mywm.jpg

[TrueRob]

People in this thread are just trying to act smart by going against popular opinion. Formulate your own thoughts instead of regurgitating tired cliches. Even a 1-on-1 comparison. Dirk would score on Wallace a hell of a lot more times than Wallace scores on Dirk.

It really depends on what you need for your team. This year's Bulls, for example, would benefit more if they got Dirk since they lack offensive firepower. The Celtics, on the other hand, would benefit more from Big Ben because they're a bad rebounding team.

[LJJ]

It really depends on what you need for your team. This year's Bulls, for example, would benefit more if they got Dirk since they lack offensive firepower. The Celtics, on the other hand, would benefit more from Big Ben because they're a bad rebounding team.

No because it's who you start your franchise with. Not taking into account any other players on the team.

Ben Wallace is not even a franchise player period. And I like Wallets a lot more than I like Nowitzki, but welcome to planet Earth.

[shootingcomets]

Even though Nowitzki is clearly much better, all some people are able to see is this guy:

http://i52.tinypic.com/fc1ug7.jpg

versus this guy:
http://i53.tinypic.com/1z2mywm.jpg

i'll take the blonde chic thank you very much

[New York Knicks]

It really depends on what you need for your team. This year's Bulls, for example, would benefit more if they got Dirk since they lack offensive firepower. The Celtics, on the other hand, would benefit more from Big Ben because they're a bad rebounding team.
Ok. So, let's say you've got a team of scorers but no great rebounder, you'd take Ben Wallace over Kobe Bryant? Team defense is the most effective type of defense. And you have no idea how Dirk would do in a situation where he wouldn't have to carry the offense. Look at Ray Allen and Paul Pierce. Neither were considered by any stretch of the imagination to be good defenders prior to their arrival in Boston. But all of a sudden after a few seasons of success with Boston and impressive defensive performances in the playoffs, they're considered to be one of the better defenders in the NBA.

[magnax1]

Lol. No. I believe you missed the point. Dirk is better at defense than Wallace is on offense.
I already said that, but definitely not much. Dirk was a very poor defender, Wallace was very poor on offense. Add onto that Dirk was a career 9 rpg guy, which is poor for a 7 footer, and Wallace is a 12+ rpg guy, it's pretty close.

[TrueRob]

Ok. So, let's say you've got a team of scorers but no great rebounder, you'd take Ben Wallace over Kobe Bryant? Team defense is the most effective type of defense. And you have no idea how Dirk would do in a situation where he wouldn't have to carry the offense. Look at Ray Allen and Paul Pierce. Neither were considered by any stretch of the imagination to be good defenders prior to their arrival in Boston. But all of a sudden after a few seasons of success with Boston and impressive defensive performances in the playoffs, they're considered to be one of the better defenders in the NBA.

Absolutely. If I already have scorers, I'd make my team better by adding an elite rebounder/defender who can control the number of possessions.

[LosBulls]

How about BOTH in their primes on the same team with 2+ Rings??

[chazzy]

Dirk's defense/rebounding>>>>> Wallace's offensive game

[ginobli2311]

And Dirk was basically a scoring specialist, not even a great passer or rebounder.

hahahahahhha.

dirk averages 11 boards per game in the playoffs for his career moron. christ....dirk gets so ****ing under-rated and unappreciated on here its a joke.

the answer is Dirk. although wallace is actually very close in value.

[ginobli2311]

You completely missed the point sir.
:applause:
He's average, or below average at everything other then his scoring. Wallace is average or below at everything except rebounding and defense.

seriously?????

wtf???????????

dirk averages 11 boards per game in the playoffs for his career.

26 points and 11 boards for his ****ing career in the playoffs. you call 11 boards a game average? are you joking? seriously....just stop posting. garnett averages 11 boards per game in the playoffs....is he a poor rebounder?

and for the last time. defensive rebounding is a big big big part of defense. and dirk is an excellent defensive rebounder...especially in the playoffs when it matters most.

here's a hint. wake up. its not 2001 anymore. dirk is not soft, he's not a terrible defender, and he's not afraid of the moment anymore. he's a top 25 player of all time that steps up his game big time in the playoffs. 10 straight years of more than 50 wins without playing with a legit 2nd option one time in his prime.

GTFO. seriously.

[thomaspynchon]

Dirk is an incredible passer for his size. Not sure why people here do not recognize this.

Also, he is at least an above average defensive player and a better man defender than Wallace. The only thing Wallace has on him is team defense and offensive rebounding, and for obvious reasons (he can afford to pick up fouls).

I think Cherokee Parks is going to have a better career than Blake Griffin when it's all said and done.

[the GIBBET]

Dirk was probably better on defense then Wallace was on offense


this, which is why i'd take Dirkles.

[mlh1981]

Without the right supporting cast, Ben Wallace isn't nearly as effective, whereas Dirk can pretty much put up 20 points at will

[DirkNowitzki41]

I'd take Ben. You could always find a small forward that camps out on the 3 point line.

Camps out on the 3pt line? Really? Really?

[Kurosawa0]

Ben was awesome in his prime, but he's not the guy you build around. If you have four other great pieces to put with him, great. As the center piece? No way.

Dirk easily.

[creepingdeath]

Wow.. :facepalm

[thomaspynchon]

Wow.. :facepalm

The racists are out in full force lately. Next they will ask who is better between Nash and Mateen Cleaves.

[Monkey D Dragon]

Dirk without a question. Dirk gives match up problem like no other and Ben was good but not even close to being the player as what people think. The East was weak and no Legit Big men for Ben to face during those times.



Dirk HOF and Ben Eating Chicken on his couch watching Dirk make to HOF.

[ginobli2311]

Dirk without a question. Dirk gives match up problem like no other and Ben was good but not even close to being the player as what people think. The East was weak and no Legit Big men for Ben to face during those times.



Dirk HOF and Ben Eating Chicken on his couch watching Dirk make to HOF.

while i think the answer is dirk....its not really a dumb question if we are only talking about their primes/peaks like the OP said.

at his peak....wallace was getting 15 plus rebounds in the playoffs and playing world class defense in the paint and on the pick and roll. those two things are extremely important for winning a title.

for their respective careers its a no brainer for dirk. but if you look at prime/peak....wallace is closer than most think in terms of impact for winning. dont forget:

1. 15 plus boards a game potential in the playoffs
2. best defender in the league capable of protecting the paint and playing the high screen and roll....good individual defender and fantastic help defender

[creepingdeath]

The racists are out in full force lately. Next they will ask who is better between Nash and Mateen Cleaves.
I don't wanna suggest that there's a racist agenda behind that, but if you look at the Nash thread that was created today claiming that Steve isn't even a top 20 PG... wow. :lol

[bdreason]

:facepalm @ people saying Ben Wallace in this thread. I hope you're not serious.

[thomaspynchon]

while i think the answer is dirk....its not really a dumb question if we are only talking about their primes/peaks like the OP said.

at his peak....wallace was getting 15 plus rebounds in the playoffs and playing world class defense in the paint and on the pick and roll. those two things are extremely important for winning a title.

for their respective careers its a no brainer for dirk. but if you look at prime/peak....wallace is closer than most think in terms of impact for winning. dont forget:

1. 15 plus boards a game potential in the playoffs
2. best defender in the league capable of protecting the paint and playing the high screen and roll....good individual defender and fantastic help defender


Wallace was an atrocious pick and roll defender. Did you ever watch him? His complete inability to stop the pick and roll was the huge topic during the world championships where the euros and argentines clowned the americans.

[ginobli2311]

Wallace was an atrocious pick and roll defender. Did you ever watch him? His complete inability to stop the pick and roll was the huge topic during the world championships where the euros and argentines clowned the americans.

for a center he was well above average in my opinion.....

[thomaspynchon]

for a center he was well above average in my opinion.....

he was great at patrolling the paint but he lacked foot speed and lateral movement to guard anyone on on one. He was an overrated defender.

[ginobli2311]

he was great at patrolling the paint but he lacked foot speed and lateral movement to guard anyone on on one. He was an overrated defender.

lol....i guess it depends on how over-rated you think he was.

he did win 4 DPOY awards.

[PaPaK]

everyone who would pick ben wallace, and is serious, is a ****ing moron.

[pete's montreux]

Ben 10 out of 10 times. Much easier to build around and his impact on the game is far greater.

[Jacks3]

Dirk easily...Dude is ridiculously underrated...Bet people don't know that he AVERAGES 25/10 on amazing efficiency for his playoff career, or that he has an absurdly low TOV%, and contrary to popular belief, all adjusted +/- numbers suggest he's a above-average defender. :facepalm

[Monkey D Dragon]

while i think the answer is dirk....its not really a dumb question if we are only talking about their primes/peaks like the OP said.

at his peak....wallace was getting 15 plus rebounds in the playoffs and playing world class defense in the paint and on the pick and roll. those two things are extremely important for winning a title.

for their respective careers its a no brainer for dirk. but if you look at prime/peak....wallace is closer than most think in terms of impact for winning. dont forget:

1. 15 plus boards a game potential in the playoffs
2. best defender in the league capable of protecting the paint and playing the high screen and roll....good individual defender and fantastic help defender


Dont get me wrong I know Ben was good but he was good during times with Weak East Teams and Weak Big Men Era but I do agree his defense was great especially Pick & Roll defense which big men lacks.

[ginobli2311]

Dirk easily...Dude is ridiculously underrated...Bet people don't know that he AVERAGES 25/10 on amazing efficiency for his playoff career, or that he has an absurdly low TOV%, and contrary to popular belief, all adjusted +/- numbers suggest he's a above-average defender. :facepalm

yep. i think its actually 26/11 in the playoffs

[Hagbard]

Dirk's the better player, to be sure.

But I honestly feel that Ben's strengths would be a lot easier to build a title contender around than Dirk's.

[Actinium59]

If I start a franchise, I would need a franchise player who can bring me some fans in my arena, a lot of highlights, jersey sales revenue, and a lot of advertising for my team home and abroad.

I strongly believe that I would make more money with Dirk Nowitzki and would have a gretter chance to buy pieces to build around him.

[Hagbard]

If I start a franchise, I would need a franchise player who can bring me some fans in my arena, a lot of highlights, jersey sales revenue, and a lot of advertising for my team home and abroad.

I strongly believe that I would make more money with Dirk Nowitzki and would have a gretter chance to buy pieces to build around him.
If I felt like I needed to pick a marketing superstar to start my franchise in order to stay afloat financially, and my choices were only Ben Wallace or Dirk Nowitzki, I think I'd stick a gun in my mouth.

[shootingcomets]

If I felt like I needed to pick a marketing superstar to start my franchise in order to stay afloat financially, and my choices were only Ben Wallace or Dirk Nowitzki, I think I'd stick a gun in my mouth.

well that's why mark cuban is earning millions

[Actinium59]

A lot of team can't even land a DPOY or a MVP player. So if I start an expansion team with one of them I couldn't be more lucky. I would have an opportunity to make the playoffs in my first year of business, that's not so bad.
I think that I could promote such a player better than a lot of "franchise" players of the bottom tier teams of the league.

[hoopaddict08]

A better question would be how the Bulls did with Big Ben. Let's see....06-07 knocked out by the Pistons. 07-08....Bulls missed playoffs. Wallace was traded mid-season to the Cavs, who lost to....the Celtics. Defense is played by the team. You can pull out one piece and still play strong defense. Offense can be run by one player.


Did you read the title? It's "prime".

Chicago and Cleveland didn't have a prime Ben Wallace on their team. His first season with Chicago he was just starting to decline.

With that said, how are you going to post Ben's playoff record without posting Dirks?

2007 lost to Warriors first round
2006 lost to Miami in Finals
2005 lost in the semis
2004 lost in the first round
2003 lost in conference finals

Dirk is the better overall player. However, I will take a prime Ben Wallace over Dirk on my team anyday. As was already said in this thread, Ben was the anchor of Detroits defense. Defense wins championships. Not average defense, but good defense.

[Hagbard]

well that's why mark cuban is earning millions
Uh...what is?

Cube's money is all from broadcast.com and other communications stuff. Financial folks aren't even clear on whether the Mavs are operating in the black.

It's nothing but an expensive hobby for Cuban.

[fos]

LMAO. Joke?

[BEAST Griffin]

http://scottystarnes.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/eat-crow.jpg

[BEAST Griffin]

I'm ashamed of this thread. Mavericks fans, choose an avatar for me that I'll have to use out of shame over this thread.

[Disaprine]

:roll:

[creepingdeath]

I'm ashamed of this thread. Mavericks fans, choose an avatar for me that I'll have to use out of shame over this thread.
http://www.ilovegenerator.com/large/i-love-dirk-130033823251.png

Go ahead and resize it yourself. :lol

[Smoke117]

I'd probably take Ben Wallace. You're going to have an easier time finding someone to score then you are as dominant defensively as Ben Wallace was.

[ImmortalD24]

http://i54.tinypic.com/11v43zq.jpg

[rodman91]

Anyone takes Ben Wallace over Nowitzki has clear issues...

[Laimbeer_Rodman]

what's next?
Prime dirk Nowitzki or Prime Ice Cream Truck

[caliman]

Ben Wallace? Seriously? The guy didn't just have bad offense, he was atrociously bad, complete with an inability to hit free throws. Dirk was at least passable as a defender and he's at 11 rebounds a game for his career in the playoffs. Rebounding is a part of defense and Dirk has proven to be much more capable of doing that than Wallace was at contributing on offense.

[Bigsmoke]

Big Ben because he was the anchor behind Detroit's success. 1 ring, 2 Finals and multiple ECF appearances.

so much for that :lol

Dirk gotta Final MVP trophy with that ring.

[hookul]

I'd probably take Ben Wallace. You're going to have an easier time finding someone to score then you are as dominant defensively as Ben Wallace was.

this is so amazing...it was a nobrainer already 5 years ago but that someone even after this seasons still with a straight face claims he would rather have ben wallace than dirk to start a team? WTF is wrong with people?

[PowerGlove]

I'd still take Big Ben, he's more of a rarity. There are only a couple of dudes that have ever done what he's done at his level. He would completely shut down the lane.

Dirk scores.:confusedshrug:

I'm not saying that Dirk is garbage, but Big Ben is a defensive anchor. The only player in the league that is doing anything near his level is Dwight Howard.

There are plenty of scorers and will always will be.

[atljonesbro]

People want Wallace over Dirk? What the hell. Ben Wallace is such a terribly bad offensive player it's just unreal. He would be better off just standing near the opponents goal all game so they can't get any easy fast break buckets. Dirk however, his defense isn't terrible. He can actually hold his own and he's a solid rebounder.

Also basketball is an offensive game. Offense is more important than defense when it comes down to it. Even an elite defender has a hard time stopping an elite scorer. Ben Wallace is a great defensive player and definitely a future hall of famer, but if you want to start a franchise Dirk is the obvious choice and people saying otherwise are just foolish. His closing ability, his unique game style is really hard to prepare for especially now that he has a better post game, and he can rebound quite well. The selling point for me is Wallace's just such bad offensive ability.

[BarberSchool]

I'd probably take Ben Wallace. You're going to have an easier time finding someone to score then you are as dominant defensively as Ben Wallace was.Just to remind you...you posted this in June of 2011. LMMFAO. Ben Wallace been seriously over-rated his entire career. Lol, at least Beast Griffin manned up. Smoke117, where you from ?

[Smoke117]

Just to remind you...you posted this in June of 2011. LMMFAO. Ben Wallace been seriously over-rated his entire career. Lol, at least Beast Griffin manned up. Smoke117, where you from ?

Southern california. I don't see what the big deal is. Look at the Pistons. They won in 04 and took the Spurs to 7 games in 05 and had not one player close to as good as Dirk Nowitzki offensively. Ben Wallace if anything is underrated now. There was a good 5 years where he was the most dominant defensive player in the league by a decent margin. When building a team I put more stock into defense then offense. You are going to have an easier time building around Ben Wallace.

[kkb_12]

People want Wallace over Dirk? What the hell. Ben Wallace is such a terribly bad offensive player it's just unreal. He would be better off just standing near the opponents goal all game so they can't get any easy fast break buckets. Dirk however, his defense isn't terrible. He can actually hold his own and he's a solid rebounder.

Also basketball is an offensive game. Offense is more important than defense when it comes down to it. Even an elite defender has a hard time stopping an elite scorer. Ben Wallace is a great defensive player and definitely a future hall of famer, but if you want to start a franchise Dirk is the obvious choice and people saying otherwise are just foolish. His closing ability, his unique game style is really hard to prepare for especially now that he has a better post game, and he can rebound quite well. The selling point for me is Wallace's just such bad offensive ability.

I would pick Ben Wallace over Dirk only if I needed some furniture moved, wood chopped or truck unloaded. The other Wallace in his prime - Rasheed - I would pick over Dirk...

[Collie]

Southern california. I don't see what the big deal is. Look at the Pistons. They won in 04 and took the Spurs to 7 games in 05 and had not one player close to as good as Dirk Nowitzki offensively. Ben Wallace if anything is underrated now. There was a good 5 years where he was the most dominant defensive player in the league by a decent margin. When building a team I put more stock into defense then offense. You are going to have an easier time building around Ben Wallace.

Uhh, put Rasheed, Rip, Chauncey and Tayshaun with Dirk and they probably win 3.

[the_wise_one]

This is like comparing Michael Jordan and Eric Snow.
You take Dirk.

[Teanett]

i shake my head.
what does dirk have to do so these ridiculous threads stop?

what next?
dominique wilkins or bruce bowen?
clyde drexler or john starks?
chris webber or ac green?
:facepalm

[Nero Tulip]

If I'm allowed to be serious in this awesome thread, I'll say people overrate the impact one player can have on defense. Defense will always be a team thing. The coach probably has as much impact on defense as even the designated stopper.

The only case when it's different is when we're talking about guys like Howard or Duncan who can dominate the paint (Wallace was not this guy; he was an undersized center with a lot of energy and flair).

[twintowers]

People need to understand the difference between a defensive specialist and a franchise player.

Yes the difference is that a defensive specialist wins championships while many franchise players don't...

[DMAVS41]

I'd still take Big Ben, he's more of a rarity. There are only a couple of dudes that have ever done what he's done at his level. He would completely shut down the lane.

Dirk scores.:confusedshrug:

I'm not saying that Dirk is garbage, but Big Ben is a defensive anchor. The only player in the league that is doing anything near his level is Dwight Howard.

There are plenty of scorers and will always will be.

Words can't describe how absurd this thread is.....

Comparing Dirk to Ben Wallace is like comparing Jordan to Mitch Richmond.

Do you people still not get the greatness of Dirk???????

[Teanett]

Yes the difference is that a defensive specialist wins championships while many franchise players don't...
:hammerhead:


mutombo, oakley, battier, raja bell, nate mcmillan, mark eaton, sidney moncrief, theo ratliff want a ring from you.

hell, grant hill went from franchise player to defensive specialist and still doesn't have a ring...

[Laimbeer_Rodman]

i shake my head.
what does dirk have to do so these ridiculous threads stop?

what next?
dominique wilkins or bruce bowen?
clyde drexler or john starks?
chris webber or ac green?
:facepalm
ac green

[rodman91]

Also Nowitzki's defense >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben Wallace's offense.

Nowitzki isn't great defender but he can do his job okay at defensive level. Wallace had no offense at all other than jumping for offensive rebounds and tip it.He didn't even had offensive IQ of Rodman..

[stan1981]

contrary to the popular opinion on this board, it's much harder to find efficient scorers than defense specialists

[knicksman]

Southern california. I don't see what the big deal is. Look at the Pistons. They won in 04 and took the Spurs to 7 games in 05 and had not one player close to as good as Dirk Nowitzki offensively. Ben Wallace if anything is underrated now. There was a good 5 years where he was the most dominant defensive player in the league by a decent margin. When building a team I put more stock into defense then offense. You are going to have an easier time building around Ben Wallace.

hows chicago when they got ben?

[Teanett]

hows chicago when they got ben?

instant title contender of course. that's what a 6'9'' center with no offense will do for you.

[lilbeastnani]

I don't know who is dumber. The OP or all the people who agreed with him.

[lilbeastnani]

contrary to the popular opinion on this board, it's much harder to find efficient scorers than defense specialists
This. There are a lot of "defense only" guys in the league like Tony Allen for an example. But they aren't the irreplacable pieces. Rather, they are the perfect complementary pieces to the superstar. I.E. Tyson Chandler to Dirk Nowitzki. Chandler was an important piece to this team but nobody in their right might (except maybe power glove and the OP) would take him over Dirk when starting a franchise. Why? Because he's not a guy you can build around. He's the guy who complements the superstar not the other way around.

[LJJ]

This. There are a lot of "defense only" guys in the league like Tony Allen for an example. But they aren't the irreplacable pieces. Rather, they are the perfect complementary pieces to the superstar. I.E. Tyson Chandler to Dirk Nowitzki. Chandler was an important piece to this team but nobody in their right might (except maybe power glove and the OP) would take him over Dirk when starting a franchise. Why? Because he's not a guy you can build around. He's the guy who complements the superstar not the other way around.
Prime Wallets is better on defense and on the boards than Dwight Howard. Significantly better on defense. Please don't compare him to a hustle player like Tyson Chandler or Tony Allen.

I'm the one defending Dirk in this thread originally but come on, you don't have to undersell Wallace to say Nowitzki is better.

[BarberSchool]

hows chicago when they got ben?


instant title contender of course. that's what a 6'9'' center with no offense will do for you.
If only I could have videotaped every argument I got into with older brothers in the barbershop the month immediately following the Bulls' Ben Wallace signing. LMAO. I was in a barbershop when the news dropped on ESPN, and literally at the exact same time I yelled "damn it! Hell naw! They're wasting money!!". Like ever brother over 35 in the joint was acting like we were instant title contenders, and looking at me like I shot their dog. I wish I had all those arguments on tape, just to show them what they predicted, and what I predicted.

Same goes for drafting Aldridge and trading him for Tyrus Thomas. Same went for the Boozer signing. I hated being right in those cases, but am still proud of it LOL

I don't hate being right at all here though. Nowitzki is so much more valuable to a team, and so much more rare. I think it must be some quasi-racism or some other cultural motivation for these stubborn-@ss posters STILL picking Ben over Nowitzki in 2011.

[Teanett]

If only I could have videotaped every argument I got into with older brothers in the barbershop the month immediately following the Bulls' Ben Wallace signing. LMAO. I was in a barbershop when the news dropped on ESPN, and literally at the exact same time I yelled "damn it! Hell naw! They're wasting money!!". Like ever brother over 35 in the joint was acting like we were instant title contenders, and looking at me like I shot their dog. I wish I had all those arguments on tape, just to show them what they predicted, and what I predicted.

Same goes for drafting Aldridge and trading him for Tyrus Thomas. Same went for the Boozer signing. I hated being right in those cases, but am still proud of it LOL

I don't hate being right at all here though. Nowitzki is so much more valuable to a team, and so much more rare. I think it must be some quasi-racism or some other cultural motivation for these stubborn-@ss posters STILL picking Ben over Nowitzki in 2011.

it's racist. just because dirk is a goofy, skinny white german with long, wavy hair and has an accent like br

[Joey3000]

Ben is the michael jordan of defense. You have to consider him, even against jordan himself.


smh idiots

[PaPaK]

lol at the idiotic thread, the OP should be banned for this.

[caliman]

Ben is the michael jordan of defense. You have to consider him, even against jordan himself.


smh idiots



WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:facepalm

[Butters]

Ben is the michael jordan of defense. You have to consider him, even against jordan himself.


smh idiots

Ben wallace just became the most overrated player ever.

im seriously going :wtf:

[Teanett]

Ben wallace just became the most overrated player ever.

im seriously going :wtf:

newbie gettin schooled like matrix did lebron.

[Butters]

sarcasm at it's best young one

[dude77]

dirk nowitzki .. he has/had/will always have a better overall game than wallace .. as good as wallace is/was defensively, his offense was nonexistent .. his career ppg is 6 I believe .. nowitzki's is 23 .. 17 pts higher .. and in the playoffs dirk's playoff average is 20 pts higher than wallace .. wallace has a less than 1 rebound edge on dirk in the playoffs :bowdown:

this is a pretty comical thread :applause:

a better comparison would be dirk and garnett

[Dro]

I don't know who is dumber. The OP or all the people who agreed with him.
Seriously..its like people disagree just to argue...Dirk is considered a top 15-20 player of all time so everybody saying they would START a franchise with Ben Wallace instead are saying that Ben Wallace is a top 20 player :roll:

[Stuckey]

this is just a weird thread

i love ben but dirk is an efficient offense maker which is much more rare and important to winning