Do people still consider Lebron the best player in the game?

[The Iron Fist]

23 p 9 a 5 r (lol) 2 s 45% 29%3p 78%ft

His team, with better teammates than hes had in any season,
is in a tie for 3rd place in the division, and a 4th seed in the east.


and, was he ever really the best player in the game or was it all a smokescreen?

:confusedshrug:




So come one, call all, bring all your favorite smilies, :facepalm ,:wtf: , :rolleyes: and :no: and explain your thoughts.

[Willkill24]

No

[blondie]

they will blame spoelstra and bosh

[tommy3]

Yes
Explanation: Agenda

[Cangri]

23 p 9 a 5 r (lol) 2 s 45% 29%3p 78%ft

His team, with better teammates than hes had in any season,
is in a tie for 3rd place in the division, and a 4th seed in the east.


:confusedshrug:




So come one, call all, bring all your favorite smilies, :facepalm ,:wtf: , :rolleyes: and :no: and explain your thoughts.
So, in you opinion, who's the best player right now?

[TDPrime2030]

I never considered him the best player in the game. And If I did, I was like Magic Johnson, I thought that Lebron was the best in the regular season and then hopped back over to Kobe when the playoffs came around.

That being said, I don't think you can really fault Lebron for Miami's disappointment.

[Hagbard]

Is the two time and reigning MVP, just entering the prime of his career, still the best player in the league?

LOL.

Uh, yes.

[Papaya Petee]

Yes, he is still the best player in the league. Put him back on Cleveland, he's a 30\9\7 50% guy on a 50+ Win team with All-NBA Defense. He has a MUCH more stacked team, with Dwyane Wade who's IMO 2nd best player in the NBA on his team.

[The Iron Fist]

So, in you opinion, who's the best player right now?


The thread isn't about me,

its about if anyone still considers Lebron the best player in the game,
so, if you want to make a thread titled, "The Iron Fist, who do you think is the best player in the game?"

go right ahead.


I'm asking if anyone still considers Lebron the best in the game.

[Rose]

Yes, he is still the best player in the league. Put him back on Cleveland, he's a 30\9\7 50% guy on a 50+ Win team with All-NBA Defense. He has a MUCH more stacked team, with Dwyane Wade who's IMO 2nd best player in the NBA on his team.
With all due respect, with Wade out he's essentially cleveland LeBron again. Right down to getting a buzzer beater nailed in his face for the win!sorry I'm still in awe of that game./homer

[NbaFan432]

Yes.

[Noob Saibot]

well stats don't show Bron's dominance. but impact wise he's still a dangerous player. and not to mention one of the most versatile.

[Papaya Petee]

With all due respect, with Wade out he's essentially cleveland LeBron again. Right down to getting a buzzer beater nailed in his face for the win!sorry I'm still in awe of that game./homer
Yes but Wade was only out because of a FLU, he won't miss any more time, and he is a better scorer IMO than LeBron so LeBron's scoring numbers will go down.

[branslowski]

As far as Regular season? Yes.

[Monkey D Dragon]

Yes, he is still the best player in the league. Put him back on Cleveland, he's a 30\9\7 50% guy on a 50+ Win team with All-NBA Defense. He has a MUCH more stacked team, with Dwyane Wade who's IMO 2nd best player in the NBA on his team.


BS after BS after BS

He is on a stacked team with the worst record u can imagine with this team Hmmmmmmmmmmm I wonder why ??? AND They have 2 BEST PLAYER IN THE NBA HMmmmmmmmm something is wrong here ... :facepalm

[The Iron Fist]

Yes, he is still the best player in the league. Put him back on Cleveland, he's a 30\9\7 50% guy on a 50+ Win team with All-NBA Defense. He has a MUCH more stacked team, with Dwyane Wade who's IMO 2nd best player in the NBA on his team.


and oddly enough,

the Heats are only 8-5. After 13 games last season,

the Cavs were 9-4.

What gives?

[MrJohnWall]

Best Player in the game is result of what your doing this season. Not your past. Or Duncan, Shaq would all be considered the best.
NOt only is Lebron not playing great. But his team is playing terrible.
I dont see how he can even be in consideration at this point.

[ginobli2311]

The thread isn't about me,

its about if anyone still considers Lebron the best player in the game,
so, if you want to make a thread titled, "The Iron Fist, who do you think is the best player in the game?"

go right ahead.


I'm asking if anyone still considers Lebron the best in the game.


i've always thought wade was slightly better than lebron.

its way too early to start praising or hating on elite players this year. kobe is shooting very poorly. lebron is shooting poorly, not boarding, and turning it over a lot. wade has been inconsistent and is not playing and defense. durant has been ice cold. howard's been alright.

best player right now is paul or williams or gasol. but i don't think any of those guys are the "best player in the game"

i'll stay with my rankings over the last few years:

1. wade
2. lebron
3. kobe
4. howard
5. durant/paul

[Hihater]

I don't like it but yes.:facepalm

[Hihater]

i've always thought wade was slightly better than lebron.

its way too early to start praising or hating on elite players this year. kobe is shooting very poorly. lebron is shooting poorly, not boarding, and turning it over a lot. wade has been inconsistent and is not playing and defense. durant has been ice cold. howard's been alright.

best player right now is paul or williams or gasol. but i don't think any of those guys are the "best player in the game"

i'll stay with my rankings over the last few years:

1. wade
2. lebron
3. kobe
4. howard
5. durant/paul
wade is not better then lebron or kobe the pass 3 years and so far he hasn't show he the best yet either.

[ginobli2311]

and oddly enough,

the Heats are only 8-5. After 13 games last season,

the Cavs were 9-4.

What gives?

what gives? the regular season gives. we all know that no matter what happens in the regular season....if the heat are healthy.....they have a much better team to win in the playoffs than the cavs.

at least the heat have a shot if they play great. the cavs had no shot....that is what gives.

the regular season means nothing unless the heat somehow don't get a top 4 seed in the east.

[magnax1]

He's top 4 no doubt, has his case for best in the league. I really haven't decided where to rank Dwight, Kobe, Lebron and Wade this year really.

[Papaya Petee]

and oddly enough,

the Heats are only 8-5. After 13 games last season,

the Cavs were 9-4.

What gives?

Are you honestly expecting me to answer a question you clearly know the answer too? If you can't look at me and tell me this Miami Heat team isn't better then Cleveland Cavaliers, than I'm sorry, I won't explain. LeBron clearly isn't the number 1 option in Miami, and he was by far in Cleveland. It's 1A 1B here in Miami.


BS after BS after BS

He is on a stacked team with the worst record u can imagine with this team Hmmmmmmmmmmm I wonder why ??? AND They have 2 BEST PLAYER IN THE NBA HMmmmmmmmm something is wrong here ..

Worst Record? Really? They are 8-5 the worst record is like 1-12. Good job being stupid. What's going on wrong? Nothing really. They have no interior defense and rebounding. LeBron's fault? No. Wade's fault? No. They play the perimeter, idiot.

[ginobli2311]

wade is not better then lebron or kobe the pass 3 years and so far he hasn't show he the best yet either.


agree to disagree.

since 05....i think wade has been the best player. its very very close for me. but i'll take wade.

[MrJohnWall]

what gives? the regular season gives. we all know that no matter what happens in the regular season....if the heat are healthy.....they have a much better team to win in the playoffs than the cavs.

at least the heat have a shot if they play great. the cavs had no shot....that is what gives.

the regular season means nothing unless the heat somehow don't get a top 4 seed in the east.
lol @ the regular season means nothing

1st and 2nd round done mean anything either lol

[All Net]

He's either first or 2nd.

Although some would argue Wade is better but I wouldn't say that. I think Wade is a close 3rd and has been for a good few years.

[The Iron Fist]

Is the two time and reigning MVP, just entering the prime of his career, still the best player in the league?

LOL.

Uh, yes.


Based on what?

His team is in the middle of the pack and its a stacked team.

[Hihater]

agree to disagree.

since 05....i think wade has been the best player. its very very close for me. but i'll take wade.
I know is your opinion but most will disagree with you. all love though

[Fatal9]

Yea, and I say this as someone who doesn't like him.

[Papaya Petee]

Based on what?

His team is in the middle of the pack and its a stacked team.
What do you mean based on what? The guy is a back to back MVP All-Nba First Defense who led his team to 66-16 and 61-21 last two years. He has a player just as good as him on the team this year so he reduced his shots.

The guy if he was in Cleveland this year would of went for 32\9\7.

[ginobli2311]

lol @ the regular season means nothing

1st and 2nd round done mean anything either lol

what does it really matter for the heat? they need to get into the playoffs as a top 4 seed in the east with health.

its just not that important....thats just the truth.

did people honestly think they would win 70? seriously? i just find it so hard to believe.

i swear people don't actually watch games or look at rosters. the heat are clearly worse than both the lakers and celtics on paper. and even further behind after you watch the teams play.

the regular season is about finding out what your team does well and what it does poorly....ask the celtics how important the regular season was last year.

[Cangri]

Based on what?

His team is in the middle of the pack and its a stacked team.
Is it his fault his team isn't doing that great?

[DeronMillsap]

As far as Regular season? Yes.
Not this season. In past seasons, yeah he was the best regular season player.

[Indian guy]

If not him, then who? He's off to this 'slow' start and is still putting up better numbers than his only 2 rivals - Kobe and Wade.

As far as Miami's record is concerned, it's somewhat misleading right now. It's incredibly rare for a team to lose every close game they play, yet that's what's happened to them so far. A bounce here and a basket there and they could easily be 11-2. Their play(top 3 on both ends of the court) doesn't really reflect in their record, but things will eventually even out for them.

[ShaqAttack3234]

He was the best player in the league in 2009 and 2010, Kobe was the best from '06-'08, I'll wait until it's deeper into the season before judging who the best player in the league is.

[The Iron Fist]

Are you honestly expecting me to answer a question you clearly know the answer too? If you can't look at me and tell me this Miami Heat team isn't better then Cleveland Cavaliers, than I'm sorry, I won't explain. LeBron clearly isn't the number 1 option in Miami, and he was by far in Cleveland. It's 1A 1B here in Miami.



.


Actually, I don't know the answer. All I've heard since the summer is how the Heats are going to steamroll the league on the way to a title because they now had Lebron and Wade and Bosh and Miller.

All we've seen though, is a replay of Cleveland, just with bigger names.

So again,

what gives and why does that make him the best player today?

[DeronMillsap]

Is it his fault his team isn't doing that great?
Here we go again.... :facepalm It's never LeBron's fault!!!!!

[Rowe]

BS after BS after BS

He is on a stacked team with the worst record u can imagine with this team Hmmmmmmmmmmm I wonder why ??? AND They have 2 BEST PLAYER IN THE NBA HMmmmmmmmm something is wrong here ... :facepalm

They're 8-5 and only 13 games in. Seriously shut the **** up.:oldlol:

[ginobli2311]

If not him, then who?

Miami's record is somewhat misleading right now. It's incredibly rare for a team to lose every close game they play, yet that's what's happened to Miami so far. A bounce here and a basket there and they could easily be 11-2 right now. Their play(top 3 on both ends of the court) doesn't really reflect in their record, but things will eventually even out for them.

the problem with this assertion is that their rebounding has been so bad its negating the great defense they are playing. things will not even out until their rebounding in crucial spots get better.....

after losing haslem now for a while....i can only get worse....they are going to lose tight games all year unless that changes.

[The Iron Fist]

what gives? the regular season gives. we all know that no matter what happens in the regular season....if the heat are healthy.....they have a much better team to win in the playoffs than the cavs.

at least the heat have a shot if they play great. the cavs had no shot....that is what gives.

the regular season means nothing unless the heat somehow don't get a top 4 seed in the east.


Dang, I could have swore I heard that last year,

"If the Cavs are healthy, they have a much better chance to win in the playoffs than the Magics and the Celtics."


I guess the more things change, the more they stay the same?

[Kurosawa0]

No one else I'd rather have.

[branslowski]

what gives? the regular season gives. we all know that no matter what happens in the regular season....if the heat are healthy.....they have a much better team to win in the playoffs than the cavs.

at least the heat have a shot if they play great. the cavs had no shot....that is what gives.

the regular season means nothing unless the heat somehow don't get a top 4 seed in the east.

Oh, they had a shot....If their star players shows up in game 2 and 5, they def would have had a shot.

[DeronMillsap]

Dang, I could have swore I heard that last year,

"If the Cavs are healthy, they have a much better chance to win in the playoffs than the Magics and the Celtics."


I guess the more things change, the more they stay the same?

It's never LeBron's fault is another theme that keeps repeating itself. :lol

[Indian guy]

the problem with this assertion is that their rebounding has been so bad its negating the great defense they are playing. things will not even out until their rebounding in crucial spots get better.....

Hmm. . .that is true. All of their closes losses so far have been characterized by their opponent getting crucial offensive rebounds late.

[Cangri]

Here we go again.... :facepalm It's never LeBron's fault!!!!!
Most of the games they've lost was because the opposing teams were dominating their front court, now tell me how it's his fault? He actually have been playing good for most of those games.

[Monkey D Dragon]

They're 8-5 and only 13 games in. Seriously shut the **** up.:oldlol:


Sorry you can go suck some Miami diccck too. and jump off when they lose this year fucccking ****

[kabalcage]

Yes, I still consider him the best in the game.

The problem is he's just not used to playing team basketball; he's used to playing LeBron ball. As of right now, the Heat are not using LeBron to the utmost of his abilities.

This is a shame, I think most people thought better teammates would unleash LeBron, but it has been a hindrance.

[The Iron Fist]

Is it his fault his team isn't doing that great?


Is it his fault when the team is doing great?

Going by the acknowledgment hes received for his teams success in the past 7 seasons,

I'd say yea,

its his fault his team isn't doing that great.

You can't just be there to accept responsibility when you're team is doing good and then shun the responsibility when the team is losing.

According to many fans, "its his team now".

[Papaya Petee]

He was the best player in the league in 2009 and 2010, Kobe was the best from '06-'08, I'll wait until it's deeper into the season before judging who the best player in the league is.
To be fair, it won't be LeBron this year. He has Wade on his team.

[NbaFan432]

Oh, they had a shot....If their star players shows up in game 2 and 5, they def would have had a shot.
read the sentence before, he meant to say 'the cavs hav no shot'

[Papaya Petee]

Why did you even make this thread if you are only bashing LeBron?

[ginobli2311]

Here we go again.... :facepalm It's never LeBron's fault!!!!!

why can't we just watch a player play and judge him on his play. lebron needs to pick up his rebounding and cut down a little on turnovers (something he's already doing)

but my god. he's been an excellent playmaker and is playing really hard on the defensive end.

do you really think the heat's problems have anything to do with lebron? they don't. his play has been pretty damn good so far. the heat are losing because their front line sucks ass. its that simple. placing blame on lebron is stupid. could he play a little better? of course.....this is true with any player, but the problems with the heat have nothing to do with lebron especially so far this year.

why can't we just judge these damn players on how well they are playing? gets so annoying.

[branslowski]

Not this season. In past seasons, yeah he was the best regular season player.

LeBron is still the best.

1. LeBron
2. Kobe
3. Wade.

[MrJohnWall]

what does it really matter for the heat? they need to get into the playoffs as a top 4 seed in the east with health.

its just not that important....thats just the truth.

did people honestly think they would win 70? seriously? i just find it so hard to believe.

i swear people don't actually watch games or look at rosters. the heat are clearly worse than both the lakers and celtics on paper. and even further behind after you watch the teams play.

the regular season is about finding out what your team does well and what it does poorly....ask the celtics how important the regular season was last year.


and let me guess. You think Heat will magically start killing teams in the play offs?

You make your bed in the regular season

[Rowe]

Oh, they had a shot....If their star players shows up in game 2 and 5, they def would have had a shot.

Nope. Boston's defense was too much for them. Cleveland lacked toughness and nobody else stepped up to contribute when LeBron was playing well. The elbow injury was legit, hes still showing signs of pain in it months later.

[DeronMillsap]

Most of the games they've lost was because the opposing teams were dominating their front court, now tell me how it's his fault? He actually have been playing good for most of those games.
Instead of watching his offense try watching his overall game.

He's not even grabbing rebounds anymore. He barely play defense.

[Papaya Petee]

Oh, they had a shot....If their star players shows up in game 2 and 5, they def would have had a shot.

You know, LeBron didn't have a team good enough to not show up and shoot 6-24 in Game 7 of the Finals yet still win.

[The Iron Fist]

Why did you even make this thread if you are only bashing LeBron?


Telling the truth is bashing now?

[ginobli2311]

Yes, I still consider him the best in the game.

The problem is he's just not used to playing team basketball; he's used to playing LeBron ball. As of right now, the Heat are not using LeBron to the utmost of his abilities.

This is a shame, I think most people thought better teammates would unleash LeBron, but it has been a hindrance.

what? the dude is averaging 23/9/5 and playing great defense. and he's doing that almost entirely in half court sets because the heat's rebounding has been so bad they aren't getting out in transition that much.

how the **** is that a hindrance?

[The_Yearning]

Excuses excuses

When LBJ gonna man up and realize he ain't Kobe? Just cause you got a stacked team still doesn't mean you're good enough to win.

There is a reason why Kobe is in the same breath at the GOAT.

[BlueandGold]

IMO there's no clear-cut best player right now like there was in the early 00s with Shaq and the late80s to 90s with Jordan. Lebron is in the discussion sure but so are other players such as CP3, Kobe, Wade(to an extent), Durant, Dwight, etc. Every other week it can be a different player especially with how Lebron/Wade have been performing and how Kobe has gotten older and his injuries are sort of piling on.

[NbaFan432]

Excuses excuses

When LBJ gonna man up and realize he ain't Kobe? Just cause you got a stacked team still doesn't mean you're good enough to win.

There is a reason why Kobe is in the same breath at the GOAT.
:facepalm

[branslowski]

You know, LeBron didn't have a team good enough to not show up and shoot 6-24 in Game 7 of the Finals yet still win.

Yet he can shoot 2-18 in a playoff game...And his team still almost beat the Celtics in the playoffs in 08'?....He's had multiple horrible shooting games in the playoffs, and his team still won. Please do research before opening your trap.

[Papaya Petee]

Telling the truth is bashing now?
What truth? About what? How? Back to back MVP All-NBA Defense 1rst isn't the best in the league now? Okay... :rolleyes:

[Rowe]

Sorry you can go suck some Miami diccck too. and jump off when they lose this year fucccking ****
:oldlol:

They're 13 games in. I'd be calling it a failure if they were battling for the 8th seed in the Playoffs, but instead they beat the teams they're supposed to beat and that always helps get you in. I dont think they'll be in the Finals or the ECF this year because Bosh is going to pull a David Copperfield when they need him.

[The Iron Fist]

why can't we just watch a player play and judge him on his play. lebron needs to pick up his rebounding and cut down a little on turnovers (something he's already doing)

but my god. he's been an excellent playmaker and is playing really hard on the defensive end.

do you really think the heat's problems have anything to do with lebron? they don't. his play has been pretty damn good so far. the heat are losing because their front line sucks ass. its that simple. placing blame on lebron is stupid. could he play a little better? of course.....this is true with any player, but the problems with the heat have nothing to do with lebron especially so far this year.

why can't we just judge these damn players on how well they are playing? gets so annoying.


Isn't Lebron a part of that same front line?

[Papaya Petee]

Yet he can shoot 2-18 in a playoff game...And his team still almost beat the Celtics in the playoffs in 08'?....He's had multiple horrible shooting games in the playoffs, and his team still won. Please do research before opening your trap.

You lost me right there.

A Kobe fan trying to talk about bad shooting nights while his team still winning :rolleyes:

[ginobli2311]

and let me guess. You think Heat will magically start killing teams in the play offs?

You make your bed in the regular season

no...not at all. i just think that expecting this team to win close to 70 is not realistic. they need to find themselves as a team.....and that doesn't always mean wins...especially because its a new environment for all the players and coaches on the floor.

i think the heat will lose to the celtics in the playoffs. doesn't matter if they go undefeated in the regular season or sneak into the playoffs.

they are playing the game the right way and are clearly still learning how to play as a team. but no matter what they do....their front line in its current form is simply not even close to good enough to beat the celtics or lakers in a series.

you act like if the heat don't get the first seed in the east they can't win a series or something. that is not important. what is important is learning how to play together and learning how to make things work with a terrible front line. you should never be solely results oriented in the regular season with a team like this. its not nearly as important as figuring out the best way to play.

again....look at the celtics last year.

[ginobli2311]

Isn't Lebron a part of that same front line?

i don't know how a point forward could be considered a front line player. seriously....its not possible.

no doubt lebron should be boarding harder.....but he's not a part of the front line. that makes no sense.

[The Iron Fist]

You know, LeBron didn't have a team good enough to not show up and shoot 6-24 in Game 7 of the Finals yet still win.


He didn't?


127 wins in two seasons says he did.

[All Net]

Agree with ginobli2311, Miami not winning the east or the title is down to their terrible frontcourt depth...Thats not just on Lebron. Bosh's rebounding and defense has to be top draw for Miami to make up for their main weakness.

[chazzy]

i don't know how a point forward could be considered a front line player. seriously....its not possible.

no doubt lebron should be boarding harder.....but he's not a part of the front line. that makes no sense.
Frontlines are considered to be C/PF/SF. Is he playing PG on defense too?

[ginobli2311]

Excuses excuses

When LBJ gonna man up and realize he ain't Kobe? Just cause you got a stacked team still doesn't mean you're good enough to win.

There is a reason why Kobe is in the same breath at the GOAT.


are you really trying to say the lakers don't have the better team around them? are you serious? its just so damn funny.

i'll always go back to level of play. do you really think kobe has been much better than lebron this year so far? in what way? do you watch these games?

[Rowe]

Excuses excuses

When LBJ gonna man up and realize he ain't Kobe? Just cause you got a stacked team still doesn't mean you're good enough to win.

There is a reason why Kobe is in the same breath at the GOAT.

LeBron doesn't have the titles.

[The Iron Fist]

What truth? About what? How? Back to back MVP All-NBA Defense 1rst isn't the best in the league now? Okay... :rolleyes:


But why are you using stats from last year to make a claim about him being the best this year?

Since you think hes the best this year, has Wade and Bosh as teammates,

why are they only 8-5?

[MrJohnWall]

IMO there's no clear-cut best player right now like there was in the early 00s with Shaq and the late80s to 90s with Jordan. Lebron is in the discussion sure but so are other players such as CP3, Kobe, Wade(to an extent), Durant, Dwight, etc. Every other week it can be a different player especially with how Lebron/Wade have been performing and how Kobe has gotten older and his injuries are sort of piling on.
I agree with this.

Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Durant are all playing extremely mediocre.

Not one player has really seperated themselves from the pack

Were going to have to wait till we get deep into the season.

Theres like 50 players right now who all in serious contentions for MVP.

That should tell you a lot

[Monkey D Dragon]

:oldlol:

They're 13 games in. I'd be calling it a failure if they were battling for the 8th seed in the Playoffs, but instead they beat the teams they're supposed to beat and that always helps get you in. I dont think they'll be in the Finals or the ECF this year because Bosh is going to pull a David Copperfield when they need him.


13 games in is 13 games in and they are looking like they cant even make the Playoff but dont get me wrong they are good enough talent in that team to even change it around by going 20+ win streak once everything start clicking but as of now no matter what anyone say LeBron, Wade, Bosh they all playing like trash. LeBron dont look nearly the same as Cavs Bron and Wade just seems like he dont even want to play since he got his team jacked by LeBron so he dont seem to have any motivation. Bosh Im not even gonna go there on this guy and how he is playing. Also they didnt win any important games this year, they beat bunch of scrub team to have that 8 wins.

Im a LeBron fan but as of now that whole Miami squad is :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[branslowski]

You lost me right there.

A Kobe fan trying to talk about bad shooting nights while his team still winning :rolleyes:

WTF are you talking about? Your the one who brought this up..:oldlol:


I just fired back the fact that LeBron's team has won games when he shot like shit...Playoff games at that...So for someone to bring something like that up to try and defend Lebron is flat out contridicting.

Now do I personally have a prob with LeBron's shooting game in those wins? No. Because he showed up in other areas.

[NbaFan432]

Frontlines are considered to be C/PF/SF. Is he playing PG on defense too?
whether or not SF is apart of the front line you knew specifically what he meant

[The_Yearning]

Agree with ginobli2311, Miami not winning the east or the title is down to their terrible frontcourt depth...Thats not just on Lebron. Bosh's rebounding and defense has to be top draw for Miami to make up for their main weakness.

If that's the case then this begs the question:

LBJ would have a higher chance at the finals had he stayed in Cleveland. True or False?

Then by all accounts, LBJ was in a better situation last year in the playoffs and still couldn't capitalize due to his "bad" play against the Celtics...therefore he had a good enough team he just couldn't get it done...

SmH

[The Iron Fist]

i don't know how a point forward could be considered a front line player. seriously....its not possible.

no doubt lebron should be boarding harder.....but he's not a part of the front line. that makes no sense.


Cut it out, hes a small forward and always has been.

[Monkey D Dragon]

But why are you using stats from last year to make a claim about him being the best this year?

Since you think hes the best this year, has Wade and Bosh as teammates,

why are they only 8-5?

That PapaBoyWhoPeeOnHisPants is a LeBron cocck sucka just let him be

[ginobli2311]

Frontlines are considered to be C/PF/SF. Is he playing PG on defense too?

i mainly consider a front line pf/c. if you want to include sf...thats fine. lebron plays all nba first team defense night in night out now. there is a reason why this team is so good defensively and the biggest reason is lebron and haslem....but lebron has been the best defender on this team so far.

please stop hating. you clearly don't watch these games. lebron's defense is elite and has been for the last 3 years now.

[MrJohnWall]

]i mainly consider a front line pf/c. [/SIZE] if you want to include sf...thats fine. lebron plays all nba first team defense night in night out now. there is a reason why this team is so good defensively and the biggest reason is lebron and haslem....but lebron has been the best defender on this team so far.

please stop hating. you clearly don't watch these games. lebron's defense is elite and has been for the last 3 years now.
Okay lets not change the meaning of words. Because you feel the need to stan a player. Lebron is part of the front court. 5 rebounds a game for a sf is weak
he should be at 7.
And thats just being real

[The Iron Fist]

whether or not SF is apart of the front line you knew specifically what he meant

So Lebron is guarding the opposing teams pg as well right?

[ginobli2311]

If that's the case then this begs the question:

LBJ would have a higher chance at the finals had he stayed in Cleveland. True or False?

Then by all accounts, LBJ was in a better situation last year in the playoffs and still couldn't capitalize due to his "bad" play against the Celtics...therefore he had a good enough team he just couldn't get it done...

SmH


completely false. the cavs had two awful defenders in mo/jamison that played way too many minutes. the cavs didn't have a decent 2nd option and they had a really poor coach for adjusting in a playoff series.

the heat have a much better chance to beat the celtics....i just don't think they will. but NO...the cavs had no chance to beat the lakers/celtics last year.

the heat this year would at least have a prayer if both wade/lebron went crazy.

[chazzy]

i mainly consider a front line pf/c. if you want to include sf...thats fine. lebron plays all nba first team defense night in night out now. there is a reason why this team is so good defensively and the biggest reason is lebron and haslem....but lebron has been the best defender on this team so far.

please stop hating. you clearly don't watch these games. lebron's defense is elite and has been for the last 3 years now.
How am I hating? Coming from you of all people.. I was just pointing out a fact. I agree his wing defense has been good, and I also agree his rebounding can be better.

[The Iron Fist]

i mainly consider a front line pf/c. if you want to include sf...thats fine. lebron plays all nba first team defense night in night out now. there is a reason why this team is so good defensively and the biggest reason is lebron and haslem....but lebron has been the best defender on this team so far.

please stop hating. you clearly don't watch these games. lebron's defense is elite and has been for the last 3 years now.



Thats because you're an idiot.

Everyone who follows basketball knows a front line consists of two forwards and a center, unless of course,

you're going to say Larry Bird was a part of the back court.

[Micku]

He isn't putting up the best stats in the world anymore, but everyone on the Heat team is limited. Wade don't have the ball as much, Bosh ain't getting the touches that he needs, LeBron cannot dominate the ball and shoot as much either.

They are all playing roles, but you can see that when Miami Heat need a leading scorer when Wade is out or is having an off night, LeBron is there to step in.

But they are all trying to adjust roles and trying to come up with some good offense. There are other players who play their roles better than the Heat superstars. The Heat still need adjustment and find out how they want to play. They are improving though.

We'll see as the season goes on who is the "best" player and etc. There will probably will be no best players or anything like that. At least no clear one. Just people don't like to accept that.

[ginobli2311]

Okay lets not change the meaning of words. Because you feel the need to stan a player. Lebron is part of the front court. 5 rebounds a game for a sf is weak
he should be at 7.
And thats just being real

totally agree about the rebounding...check all my posts. i have hammered lebron for his rebounding.

but his defense is elite. if you want to include him on the front line...fine. his defense is the best in the league at his position....2nd maybe to artest.

he needs to board better....but do not lump him in as a negative on defense. he's the biggest reason the heat are so good on defense.

[NbaFan432]

I honestly think that up until his injury Bird and Jordan switching places makes the Celtics worse and the Bulls better. Bird in his prime doesnt make the 90s Bulls better. But Bird was a better player(at the time) for a bad to average team I think. this was back when Jordan was stat and reputation concerned. Statpadding for triple doubles, allowing slower guards penetration on him to get the block when hed recover(at the expense of giving up easy points when those guards would instead find the man of the help defense that stepped up to contest them), telling teammates not to give the ball to this guy or that guy, fighting with coaches, and generally not being that good a leader aside from his godly talent.

[LastChanceToWin]

Lebron is still the best player in the NBA. You can't argue with that.

[NuggetsFan]

Yup. I don't change up rankings after 10 games into a season. Take a look at the start of the last year 10 games in. I'll wait for the season to get deeper to start rethinking it. If your going by right now than what would a top 10 even look like? I'd sure as hell bet not the same as it would 30 games from now.

[branslowski]

WTF are you talking about? Your the one who brought this up..:oldlol:


I just fired back the fact that LeBron's team has won games when he shot like shit...Playoff games at that...So for someone to bring something like that up to try and defend Lebron is flat out contridicting.

Now do I personally have a prob with LeBron's shooting game in those wins? No. Because he showed up in other areas.

As another dumb poster challenges me and bites the dust..:pimp:

[The Iron Fist]

totally agree about the rebounding...check all my posts. i have hammered lebron for his rebounding.

but his defense is elite. if you want to include him on the front line...fine. his defense is the best in the league at his position....2nd maybe to artest.

he needs to board better....but do not lump him in as a negative on defense. he's the biggest reason the heat are so good on defense.

Explain why his defensive rebounds are worse than in any season hes played.

[The_Yearning]

To answer the Op's question, Kobe is the flat out best player.

You would never know he just had surgery and playing with a broken finger. Wade was out for years with just a shoulder injury.

[Monkey D Dragon]

As another dumb poster challenges me and bites the dust..:pimp:


Yup that ******t dipped out

[ginobli2311]

Thats because you're an idiot.

Everyone who follows basketball knows a front line consists of two forwards and a center, unless of course,

you're going to say Larry Bird was a part of the back court.

ok...lets be clear.

lebron is not playing the traditional role of SF for this team. he is playing point forward. and to add to that....he is guarding the wing player....whatever you want to consider that is fine.

there are varying degrees to everything. lebron is clearly playing a different role than artest or odom....or jamison.

or do you think lebron and shawn marion are playing the same role. if you watched these games you really wouldn't consider lebron part of the front line.

but again...go ahead. he's the best ****ing sf defender in the league. its hilarious.

[The Iron Fist]

What??
Dude knew he meant specifically PF/C. LeBron plays neither.
I'm not sure why u responded with that.


But SF is a part of the front line and well and has been forever.

You can't change the definitions to fit your agenda.

If the front line sucks, and Lebron is a part of that,

why are you guys trying to deflect the blame from him?

[ginobli2311]

Explain why his defensive rebounds are worse than in any season hes played.

from what i have seen. effort. plain and simple. he's acting like he's above getting in their and boarding. he keeps leaking out to try to get into transition....something the heat obviously need to do....but i would tell lebron that you can't get into transition without the ball.

i don't know all the reasons. i just know he's been bad on the boards so far this year.

[The Iron Fist]

ok...lets be clear.

lebron is not playing the traditional role of SF for this team. he is playing point forward. and to add to that....he is guarding the wing player....whatever you want to consider that is fine.

there are varying degrees to everything. lebron is clearly playing a different role than artest or odom....or jamison.

or do you think lebron and shawn marion are playing the same role. if you watched these games you really wouldn't consider lebron part of the front line.

but again...go ahead. he's the best ****ing sf defender in the league. its hilarious.


So the Heats have Wade, Arroyo and Chalmers guarding forwards now?
:roll:

Well I guess thats why they're losing.

Has nothing to do with Lebron because hes never the problem,

its everyone else.

Thanks for enlightening me.

[NbaFan432]

But SF is a part of the front line and well and has been forever.

You can't change the definitions to fit your agenda.

If the front line sucks, and Lebron is a part of that,

why are you guys trying to deflect the blame from him?
He's already said he meant specifically PF/C. So in essence he would have been better off saying it would be because of the PF/C positions as opposed to frontline.

Bottom line is everybody knew he meant PF/C.

[The Iron Fist]

from what i have seen. effort. plain and simple. he's acting like he's above getting in their and boarding. he keeps leaking out to try to get into transition....something the heat obviously need to do....but i would tell lebron that you can't get into transition without the ball.

i don't know all the reasons. i just know he's been bad on the boards so far this year.


So hes a part of that crappy front line.

[ginobli2311]

But SF is a part of the front line and well and has been forever.

You can't change the definitions to fit your agenda.

If the front line sucks, and Lebron is a part of that,

why are you guys trying to deflect the blame from him?

seriously....listen carefully:

lebron is not playing a traditional sf position on either end. he is basically playing pg for them and his job is to get the ball out quickly in transition. if you watched the games....which you clearly do not....you would see spoelstra constantly telling lebron to push it up the floor.

lebron is leaking out when shots go up a lot because of his role of point forward. i'm not excusing it....he needs to board better.

but forget all that. lebron is the best or 2nd best defender at his position in the league.

and forget me saying front line.

the heat are losing because their pf/c have been awful at best this year on the glass and defense. there....what can you say now?

[The Iron Fist]

He's already said he meant specifically PF/C. So in essence he would have been better off saying it would be because of the PF/C positions as opposed to frontline.

Bottom line is everybody knew he meant PF/C.


and what you don't get is that no one person can change the definition of what a front line is.

Because his stance is PF/C = Frontline,


doesn't make it so, especially when everyone else sees a frontline as SF/PF/C.

[ginobli2311]

So hes a part of that crappy front line.

his rebounding. not his defense. are mentally retarded?

he's getting over 5 boards a game. that needs to be at least 7. so you are really going to tell me that a player that plays all-nba first team defense and is clearly the best defender on his team is part of a crappy front line because he needs to average 1.7 more rebounds per game?

GTFO...seriously....you are retarded.

its not just rebounding. bosh/anthony/z.....they have been beyond bad defensively. lebron has been great defensively. that is the difference idiot.

[branslowski]

So the Heats have Wade, Arroyo and Chalmers guarding forwards now?
:roll:

Well I guess thats why they're losing.

Has nothing to do with Lebron because hes never the problem,

its everyone else.

Thanks for enlightening me.

I lol'd.:oldlol:

[The Iron Fist]

seriously....listen carefully:

lebron is not playing a traditional sf position on either end. he is basically playing pg for them and his job is to get the ball out quickly in transition. if you watched the games....which you clearly do not....you would see spoelstra constantly telling lebron to push it up the floor.

lebron is leaking out when shots go up a lot because of his role of point forward. i'm not excusing it....he needs to board better.

but forget all that. lebron is the best or 2nd best defender at his position in the league.

and forget me saying front line.

the heat are losing because their pf/c have been awful at best this year on the glass and defense. there....what can you say now?


seriously, listen carefully,

all you're doing is making excuses.


Going by your logic, he isn't the best or 2nd best defender at his position



because it doesn't even exist.

Make up your damn mind.

Hes either the best or 2nd best at his position,

or the position isn't traditional.

[The Iron Fist]

his rebounding. not his defense. are mentally retarded?

he's getting over 5 boards a game. that needs to be at least 7. so you are really going to tell me that a player that plays all-nba first team defense and is clearly the best defender on his team is part of a crappy front line because he needs to average 1.7 more rebounds per game?

GTFO...seriously....you are retarded.

its not just rebounding. bosh/anthony/z.....they have been beyond bad defensively. lebron has been great defensively. that is the difference idiot.


Rebounding is a big part of defense.

[kabalcage]

from what i have seen. effort. plain and simple. he's acting like he's above getting in their and boarding. he keeps leaking out to try to get into transition....something the heat obviously need to do....but i would tell lebron that you can't get into transition without the ball.

i don't know all the reasons. i just know he's been bad on the boards so far this year.


I think it's a deliberate coaching decision for LeBron to stick to the perimeter and defend the potential fast break.

LeBron is the best athlete to ever walk the Earth in any sport; he should be a dominant rebounder. Considering their rebounding and softness problem, Spoelstra should consider moving LeBron over to PF. I don't think the Zach Randolphs of the world can push LeBron on around.

[ginobli2311]

seriously, listen carefully,

all you're doing is making excuses.


Going by your logic, he isn't the best or 2nd best defender at his position



because it doesn't even exist.

Make up your damn mind.

Hes either the best or 2nd best at his position,

or the position isn't traditional.


you have no logic at all. we agree that lebron is playing the point forward position. we agree that lebron plays a different role than say...shawn marion.

its not an excuse. lebron plays fantastic defense. whatever position you want to list him at....i don't give a **** if you call him a pg or center. he's one of the best defenders in the league regardless of position.

what has not been great for him so far this year is his rebounding. and that is because of two things in my opinion:

1. the effort. i don't see him going after the ball with hunger the way his team needs him to do. there is no excuse for this. he needs to be getting at least 7 boards a game. at least.

2. because he is playing point so much....he is leaking out a bit to speed up the tempo so he can get an outlet pass near halfcourt and attack the rim or setup a three in transition. if you watched the games you would know that the heat want to get the ball out in transition as much as possible.....this isn't working though because nobody is getting these boards to outlet the ball to lebron. so he needs to start boarding much better on the defensive glass.

do you really not understand this?

[NbaFan432]

and what you don't get is that no one person can change the definition of what a front line is.

Because his stance is PF/C = Frontline,


doesn't make it so, especially when everyone else sees a frontline as SF/PF/C.
I'm not going to keep repeating myself, :oldlol: I'm done here.

[MakeHistory78]

Yes he is and it's not even close...
Some top players like LeBron,Kobe,Wade,Durant,Melo aren't so good at the beginning of the season...Especially with their efficiency...But this will be change game by game.
LeBron is easily the best in the game...Just because nobody is better than him...The discussion is open just because LeBron isn't so efficient so far but his passing is great...
LeBron is better even if he isn't at his standards yet...
And at the other who is better Kobe Bryant?:oldlol: LMAO if anyone believe that..

[ginobli2311]

Rebounding is a big part of defense.

totally agree. but you are making him out to be a terrible rebounder. he's getting 5.3 boards a game.

at 7.5 a game his rebounding would be the third highest for small forwards in the nba. so you are really making that big of a deal out of 2.2 rebounds per game?

and again. his role is partly responsible for his lack of rebounding. its not the entire reason. but clearly lebron plays a different role than melo or gerald wallace or rudy gay.

how is this not ****ing obvious?

[Hagbard]

seriously, listen carefully,

all you're doing is making excuses.


Going by your logic, he isn't the best or 2nd best defender at his position



because it doesn't even exist.

Make up your damn mind.

Hes either the best or 2nd best at his position,

or the position isn't traditional.
You don't seem very bright, mate.

You're going out of your way to perform semantic gymnastics just so you can try to attribute blame to the player you hate.

When, we ought to mention, that player is pretty damn clearly not part of the problem, making your gymnastics not only futile, but pathetic.

The Heat's problems are very real and very obvious. I know what they are, you know what they are, this guy ginobili knows what they are, Lebron knows what they are, Riley knows what they are.

There's really no need to try to create problems that aren't there and blame them on people who aren't culpable.

What a strange ****ing culture exists on this forum. Everybody is afraid of truth, even when it's obvious, if it happens to hurt "their guy" or prop up "their enemy."

Oof.

[The Iron Fist]

I'm not going to keep repeating myself, :oldlol: I'm done here.


You've been done the moment you decided to chime in because you had no point.

Now buzz off kid.

[The_Yearning]

totally agree. but you are making him out to be a terrible rebounder. he's getting 5.3 boards a game.

at 7.5 a game his rebounding would be the third highest for small forwards in the nba. so you are really making that big of a deal out of 2.2 rebounds per game?

and again. his role is partly responsible for his lack of rebounding. its not the entire reason. but clearly lebron plays a different role than melo or gerald wallace or rudy gay.

how is this not ****ing obvious?

If he was the unquestionable leader that he says he is he would of gotten those at least one of those crunch-time rebounds to seal the game against the Grizz

[ginobli2311]

You don't seem very bright, mate.

You're going out of your way to perform semantic gymnastics just so you can try to attribute blame to the player you hate.

When, we ought to mention, that player is pretty damn clearly not part of the problem, making your gymnastics not only futile, but pathetic.

The Heat's problems are very real and very obvious. I know what they are, you know what they are, this guy ginobili knows what they are, Lebron knows what they are, Riley knows what they are.

There's really no need to try to create problems that aren't there and blame them on people who aren't culpable.

What a strange ****ing culture exists on this forum. Everybody is afraid of truth, even when it's obvious, if it happens to hurt "their guy" or prop up "their enemy."

Oof.

so ****ing true. great post.

[The Iron Fist]

you have no logic at all. we agree that lebron is playing the point forward position. we agree that lebron plays a different role than say...shawn marion.

its not an excuse. lebron plays fantastic defense. whatever position you want to list him at....i don't give a **** if you call him a pg or center. he's one of the best defenders in the league regardless of position.

what has not been great for him so far this year is his rebounding. and that is because of two things in my opinion:

1. the effort. i don't see him going after the ball with hunger the way his team needs him to do. there is no excuse for this. he needs to be getting at least 7 boards a game. at least.

2. because he is playing point so much....he is leaking out a bit to speed up the tempo so he can get an outlet pass near halfcourt and attack the rim or setup a three in transition. if you watched the games you would know that the heat want to get the ball out in transition as much as possible.....this isn't working though because nobody is getting these boards to outlet the ball to lebron. so he needs to start boarding much better on the defensive glass.

do you really not understand this?


I understand fully,

you're saying hes a great defender at any position,

but he just doesn't try hard enough.


We know,

we see the results in his teams record.

What you don't seem to understand is this,

hes a part of the problem.

[ginobli2311]

If he was the unquestionable leader that he says he is he would of gotten those at least one of those crunch-time rebounds to seal the game against the Grizz

i'm not going to condemn a player for a 13 game stretch on a new team in which he is struggling to rebound.

however....lebron is clearly at fault for not helping out on the glass in that game. i'm not making any excuses for him or anybody. i'm telling you the truth and the facts.

lebron's effort on the glass has not been good enough so far this year. plain and simple.

[zizozain]

sports are 90% mental and only 10% physical

especially in sports where hundredths of a second or tenths of an inch separate the champions from the mediocre athletes


- why you guys cover every aspect of the game but not mental toughness and mental readiness?
that waht separates the champions from the mediocre athletes

[DeronMillsap]

sports are 90% mental and only 10% physical

especially in sports where hundredths of a second or tenths of an inch separate the champions from the mediocre athletes


- why you guys cover every aspect of the game but not mental toughness and mental readiness?
that waht separates the champions from the mediocre athletes

Perfect evaluation. :applause: LeBron is mentally retarded.

[The Iron Fist]

You don't seem very bright, mate.

You're going out of your way to perform semantic gymnastics just so you can try to attribute blame to the player you hate.

When, we ought to mention, that player is pretty damn clearly not part of the problem, making your gymnastics not only futile, but pathetic.

The Heat's problems are very real and very obvious. I know what they are, you know what they are, this guy ginobili knows what they are, Lebron knows what they are, Riley knows what they are.

There's really no need to try to create problems that aren't there and blame them on people who aren't culpable.

What a strange ****ing culture exists on this forum. Everybody is afraid of truth, even when it's obvious, if it happens to hurt "their guy" or prop up "their enemy."

Oof.


Eat it,

the guy is clearly saying that Lebron is not hustling enough to get the job done,

but at the same time,

absolving him of any blame.


I don't know where you live at or where you come from,

but where I'm from, anyone thats not putting in full effort,

gets to be a part of that blame, especially when that person is seen as the leader.



I can guarantee, that if the Heats were 12-1,

Lebron would be getting the majority of the praise for the teams success.

Now you tell me,

why is there a clear double standard?

[ginobli2311]

sports are 90% mental and only 10% physical

especially in sports where hundredths of a second or tenths of an inch separate the champions from the mediocre athletes


- why you guys cover every aspect of the game but not mental toughness and mental readiness?
that waht separates the champions from the mediocre athletes

the mental aspects of sports are very important.

but 90/10 is a joke. seriously. tell that to shawn bradley when he's getting dunked on by t-mac. was that because bradley wasn't mentally prepared?

sports are about 90% how good you actually are and about 10% your mental makeup. especially the nba. other sports are probably a little less....but the nba especially is about how good you are.

[ginobli2311]

Eat it,

the guy is clearly saying that Lebron is not hustling enough to get the job done,

but at the same time,

absolving him of any blame.


I don't know where you live at or where you come from,

but where I'm from, anyone thats not putting in full effort,

gets to be a part of that blame, especially when that person is seen as the leader.



I can guarantee, that if the Heats were 12-1,

Lebron would be getting the majority of the praise for the teams success.

Now you tell me,

why is there a clear double standard?


you are putting words in my mouth. how many times have i said "lebron needs to rebound better"

if you want to put the problems of the heat in order?...lebron isn't even close to the top.

you keep ignoring that while his rebounding needs to improve....his overall defense has been elite so far this year.

seriously dude.....i can't debate with someone that thinks i'm creating a double standard when i'm flat out hammering lebron for not rebounding well so far this year.

but that doesn't mean lebron is hurting the heat overall on that end of the floor. he's the best ****ing defender on the team and the team plays very good defense. christ...GTFO

[The Iron Fist]

you are putting words in my mouth. how many times have i said "lebron needs to rebound better"

if you want to put the problems of the heat in order?...lebron isn't even close to the top.

you keep ignoring that while his rebounding needs to improve....his overall defense has been elite so far this year.

seriously dude.....i can't debate with someone that thinks i'm creating a double standard when i'm flat out hammering lebron for not rebounding well so far this year.

but that doesn't mean lebron is hurting the heat overall on that end of the floor. he's the best ****ing defender on the team and the team plays very good defense. christ...GTFO


How can overall defense be elite if the rebounding is lacking?

Do you even know what "overall" means?

[ginobli2311]

How can overall defense be elite if the rebounding is lacking?

Do you even know what "overall" means?

LOL. you are acting like his rebounding has been bad. it has not been bad. its been bad for lebron.....not terrible overall by any means.

are you really going to use a 13 game sample size to condemn a player? my god. its beyond absurd.

and even if you want to use only the games played this year. lebron's overall impact defensively has been enormously positive for the heat. he's been their best overall defender and is certainly their most versatile defender.

he needs to get the rebounding up. there is no doubt about that. but you act like its much worse than it actually is.

dude. you have lost the debate. deal with it and move on.

[The Iron Fist]

LOL. you are acting like his rebounding has been bad. it has not been bad. its been bad for lebron.....not terrible overall by any means.

are you really going to use a 13 game sample size to condemn a player? my god. its beyond absurd.

and even if you want to use only the games played this year. lebron's overall impact defensively has been enormously positive for the heat. he's been their best overall defender and is certainly their most versatile defender.

he needs to get the rebounding up. there is no doubt about that. but you act like its much worse than it actually is.

dude. you have lost the debate. deal with it and move on.

So why are you in here?

I haven't even debated.

I simply asked a question.



Its not my fault you don't know what the meaning of "front line", or "overall" mean.

[ginobli2311]

So why are you in here?

I haven't even debated.

I simply asked a question.



Its not my fault you don't know what the meaning of "front line", or "overall" mean.

i know exactly what they mean.

you can play great overall defense even if your rebounding is not elite. lebron's rebounding is not preventing him from being an elite overall defender...thats a fact.

i know what front line means as well. its all player dependent. you simply can classify players that technically play small forward in different ways.

why can't you grasp that? clearly gerald wallace and shawn marion play different roles than lebron does for their respective teams.

you can't just ignore the evidence that is right in front of you. its just dumb. why not use your brain for a change and think in terms of degrees and context. lebron is being asked to play a role for the heat that by its very nature is going to limit him a little on the boards on both ends of the floor.

that is just a fact. should lebron rebound more? of course...yes. i've said that a million times. but in his current role. there is simply no way for him to rebound at more than around 7.5 boards a game. it won't happen. you would know this if you watched the games. he's not in a position to crash the boards offensively at all.....and clearly spoelstra is prioritizing getting the ball out as quickly as possible off the defensive glass.

again. its not an excuse. just a fact. and even in this role...lebron should be at 7 boards a game at minimum. he has not given enough focus/effort on the glass.

why can't you follow this. but that does not mean he's hurting this team on defense. he's a huge positive overall on defense. whereas bosh/z/anthony are huge negatives on defense.

you clearly don't watch the games....so don't debate something you don't have any knowledge of.

[The Iron Fist]

i know exactly what they mean.

you can play great overall defense even if your rebounding is not elite. lebron's rebounding is not preventing him from being an elite overall defender...thats a fact.

i know what front line means as well. its all player dependent. you simply can classify players that technically play small forward in different ways.

why can't you grasp that? clearly gerald wallace and shawn marion play different roles than lebron does for their respective teams.

you can't just ignore the evidence that is right in front of you. its just dumb. why not use your brain for a change and think in terms of degrees and context. lebron is being asked to play a role for the heat that by its very nature is going to limit him a little on the boards on both ends of the floor.

that is just a fact. should lebron rebound more? of course...yes. i've said that a million times. but in his current role. there is simply no way for him to rebound at more than around 7.5 boards a game. it won't happen. you would know this if you watched the games. he's not in a position to crash the boards offensively at all.....and clearly spoelstra is prioritizing getting the ball out as quickly as possible off the defensive glass.

again. its not an excuse. just a fact. and even in this role...lebron should be at 7 boards a game at minimum. he has not given enough focus/effort on the glass.

why can't you follow this. but that does not mean he's hurting this team on defense. he's a huge positive overall on defense. whereas bosh/z/anthony are huge negatives on defense.

you clearly don't watch the games....so don't debate something you don't have any knowledge of.


The evidence,

Team Multi Titles is 8-5.

Captain Its Not My Fault, is having worse than numbers than previous years.

So what makes him the best player again?

[ginobli2311]

The evidence,

Team Multi Titles is 8-5.

Captain Its Not My Fault, is having worse than numbers than previous years.

So what makes him the best player again?

check my posts. i don't think lebron is the best player in the league.

i think its:

1. wade
2. lebron
3. kobe
4. howard
5. durant/paul

if you want me to answer what makes lebron a top 3 player in the game. ok.

he is giving you 23 points and 9 assists with over a 2 to 1 assist to turnover ratio. he plays all-nba first team defense and he is one of the best players in the league with the game on the line.

teams have to either run at him when he drives or flat shade their entire defense to him. its why the heat get wide open shot after wide open shot.

or are you one of those guys that solely looks at ppg for players?

[The Iron Fist]

check my posts. i don't think lebron is the best player in the league.

i think its:

1. wade
2. lebron
3. kobe
4. howard
5. durant/paul

if you want me to answer what makes lebron a top 3 player in the game. ok.

he is giving you 23 points and 9 assists with over a 2 to 1 assist to turnover ratio. he plays all-nba first team defense and he is one of the best players in the league with the game on the line.

teams have to either run at him when he drives or flat shade their entire defense to him. its why the heat get wide open shot after wide open shot.

or are you one of those guys that solely looks at ppg for players?


Ok, since you don't think hes the best player,

you can STFU already.

[Lakers_Kobe_Fan]

Lerbon is a fagout.....cheater...he is no way a MAN and the best player in the game....

how can u be when you playing with 2 other guys who are currently top 10 in NBA?

[Doranku]

I never did consider him the best player. Always had him at #3 behind Kobe (#2) and Wade (#1).

[IN-PAX-WE-TRUST]

Yes. He's a D Bag but he's still the best RIGHT NOW. Howard is a close 2nd. However, if I had to start a franchise right now I would pick Howard or Durant.

[The Iron Fist]

Yes. He's a D Bag but he's still the best RIGHT NOW. Howard is a close 2nd. However, if I had to start a franchise right now I would pick Howard or Durant.

based on what?

[Hihater]

Yes. He's a D Bag but he's still the best RIGHT NOW. Howard is a close 2nd. However, if I had to start a franchise right now I would pick Howard or Durant.

I just wonder why people will pick howard or durant over other great player and even lebron? after they hasn't win jack yet.

[asdf1990]

based on what?

based on being the best all around player in the league.

he can defend, pass, shoot (ya his jumper isn't as wet as kobes but he is still decent), he can drive, best finisher in the league. just cuz he went on a different team and puts up less stats doesn't mean he changed as a player.

[IN-PAX-WE-TRUST]

I just wonder why people will pick howard or durant over other great player and even lebron? after they hasn't win jack yet.

Durant is 22 and it's always easier to win with size ( Howard)

[ginobli2311]

I just wonder why people will pick howard or durant over other great player and even lebron? after they hasn't win jack yet.

howard - because he plays center. he's the best defensive player in the league and is only turning 25 in a few days. there are hardly any good centers in the league and having the best big man is extremely valuable.

durant- because he's the best scorer in the league and just turned 22 years old.

you could take chris paul as well.

but after lebron. its really those three guys for sure. they are young and have huge upside.

[rammerman]

If someone who was the best player joins a new team where he cannot dominate like he used to, is he still the best player?

:confusedshrug:

[T-bomb 25]

check my posts. i don't think lebron is the best player in the league.

i think its:

1. wade
2. lebron
3. kobe
4. howard
5. durant/paul

if you want me to answer what makes lebron a top 3 player in the game. ok.

he is giving you 23 points and 9 assists with over a 2 to 1 assist to turnover ratio. he plays all-nba first team defense and he is one of the best players in the league with the game on the line.

teams have to either run at him when he drives or flat shade their entire defense to him. its why the heat get wide open shot after wide open shot.

or are you one of those guys that solely looks at ppg for players?No way in hell is he the best player in the league,other than stats when has he ever been? and no way in is Paul and Howard top 5,1 is a robotic 1 deminsinal defender with a limti offensive game the other is a small poor 1 on 1 defender that is a complete failer in the playoffs,here's a real top 5:

1.Wade
2.Kobe
3.Lebron
4.D-Will
5.Durant
and it looks like D-Will and Durant might pass that fullback.

[Hihater]

No way in hell is he the best player in the league,other than stats when has he ever been? and no way in is Paul and Howard top 5,1 is a robotic 1 deminsinal defender with a limti offensive game the other is a small poor 1 on 1 defender that is a complete failer in the playoffs,here's a real top 5:

1.Wade
2.Kobe
3.Lebron
4.D-Will
5.Durant
and it looks like D-Will and Durant might pass that fullback.
I just want to know how d-wade in the top right now? because he been playing bad lately and cost his team at less 2 lost.

[T-bomb 25]

I just want to know how d-wade in the top right now? because he been playing bad lately and cost his team at less 2 lost.Because he has a ring with a less talented team than Kobe and 60% of Shaq with waaaay better stats then Kobe and he was way more dominant and impressive to eye doing it.He has the best guard stats since Jordan in the playoffs and he came from 2-0 down to do it with Shaq missing 2 games in the finals,and Lebron well you see he jumped on Wades bandwagon he knows whats up and he knows he cant win it as the #1 option is that enough for you?

[Hihater]

Because he has a ring with a less talented team than Kobe and 60% of Shaq with waaaay better stats then Kobe and he was way more dominant and impressive to eye doing it.He has the best guard stats since Jordan in the playoffs and he came from 2-0 down to do it with Shaq missing 2 games in the finals,and Lebron well you see he jumped on Wades bandwagon he knows whats up and he knows he cant win it as the #1 option is that enough for you?
kobe been in the final 7 time out of 14 year of his career, won 5 of them and play against some of the best defense team of all time(boston and Detroit ).
d-wade play against one of the weakest defense team in the final(Dallas)and did u even see the game? it was so badly ref . how lebron join d-wade make him better? last time i check lebron at least pass the first round of the playoff unlike d-wade.

[TennesseeFan]

No. As much as I hate to say it, its Chris Paul.

[T-bomb 25]

kobe been in the final 7 time out of 14 year of his career, won 5 of them and play against some of the best defense team of all time(boston and Detroit ).
d-wade play against one of the weakest defense team in the final(Dallas)and did u even see the game? it was so badly ref . how lebron join d-wade make him better? last time i check lebron at least pass the first round of the playoff unlike d-wade.Wade already has a ring you idiodic no english speaking clown regardless of who it was against and he came from 2-0 to do it.Lebron had a good team that won 60+ games twice in a row,thats only been done 1 other time.Wades teams were trash when he won with Shaq,and below the gutter the last couple years.And get real Shaq was the man in all 3 of those rings Kobe has he didnt even shoot 40% from the field then he was just a volume chucker,and last year the MVP of the finals should have went to Gasol,where was Kobe in the clutch in the 4th quarter?

[Avon Barksdale]

Lebron did not suddenly become a worse player by joining the Heat. He is for all intents and purposes the same player he was last year. He is not in decline, he's in his prime. To say that he was the best player in the league the last 2 years, and now suddenly he isn't just because he's in a different situation is ridiculous.

The thread asks if Lebron is the best player in the game, not if he's the player that has played the best through the first ~12-15 games, or if he's the player putting up the best stats.

So, yes, I still consider him the best player in the league.

Whether or not someone is the best player in the league is independent of who he's playing with or his current team situation. If Rondo were traded to a team with poor offensive threats, guys who couldn't finish, and he was asked to try to score more, and his assist numbers and efficiency dropped, that doesn't mean he became a worse player. He's still the same player he was on the Celtics. For the reading comprehension impaired, I'm not saying the Heat don't have any offensive threats, it's just an example of how situations affect stats and how good a player appears to be.

[Hihater]

Wade already has a ring you idiodic no english speaking clown regardless of who it was against and he came from 2-0 to do it.Lebron had a good team that won 60+ games twice in a row,thats only been done 1 other time.Wades teams were trash when he won with Shaq,and below the gutter the last couple years.And get real Shaq was the man in all 3 of those rings Kobe has he didnt even shoot 40% from the field then he was just a volume chucker,and last year the MVP of the finals should have went to Gasol,where was Kobe in the clutch in the 4th quarter?
So you telling me gasol deserve that mvp because he did good in game 7? and other 6 game don't matter. kobe avg around 28pga in the final and did hell of a job getting lakers to the final. if u minus d-wade and add lebron to the heat i bet u they can win at less 50 game.

[T-bomb 25]

Lebron did not suddenly become a worse player by joining the Heat. He is for all intents and purposes the same player he was last year. He is not in decline, he's in his prime. To say that he was the best player in the league the last 2 years, and now suddenly he isn't just because he's in a different situation is ridiculous.

The thread asks if Lebron is the best player in the game, not if he's the player that has played the best through the first ~12-15 games, or if he's the player putting up the best stats.

So, yes, I still consider him the best player in the league.

Whether or not someone is the best player in the league is independent of who he's playing with or his current team situation. If Rondo were traded to a team with poor offensive threats, guys who couldn't finish, and he was asked to try to score more, and his assist numbers and efficiency dropped, that doesn't mean he became a worse player. He's still the same player he was on the Celtics. For the reading comprehension impaired, I'm not saying the Heat don't have any offensive threats, it's just an example of how situations affect stats and how good a player appears to be.Before he went to Heat he wasnt the best player,how can he be when his other 2 rivals both have rings and he doesnt while 1 is still in his prime and the other is still great enough to win another,stats doesn not make you better,2 years ago Wade had better stats than Lebron and Kobe but what does that really mean?

[Avon Barksdale]

Excuses excuses

When LBJ gonna man up and realize he ain't Kobe? Just cause you got a stacked team still doesn't mean you're good enough to win.


Do people honestly think the Heat have a "stacked" team. :facepalm They have two elite wing players which are a little redundant, a decent PF, a few average role players, and a bunch of scrubs. That is not a "stacked" team. Yeah they have 2 superstars, but they're still an unbalanced team with very little depth. It's pretty ridiculous to call a team that started Carlos Arroyo and Joel Anthony "stacked".

The Lakers are loaded, have great balance, great size, and probably the best bench in the league. That is a stacked team.

[T-bomb 25]

So you telling me gasol deserve that mvp because he did good in game 7? and other 6 game don't matter. kobe avg around 28pga in the final and did hell of a job getting lakers to the final. if u minus d-wade and add lebron to the heat i bet u they can win at less 50 game.How hard is it to shoot 36-38% and average 28ppg on 25 fga's? check Gasol stats they much more efficient than Kobe's.Lebron had a team similar to Wades even a lil better than the CBA talent Wade had the last few years Lebron didnt win 50 games he didnt make the playoffs 1 year and they went out in the 1st round the other.I dont see the point you are trying argue you seem slow,Wade won a ring carrying a team on his back,Lebron was on a team that won 60+ games 2 years in a row,that has only been 1 other time and he failed to make it to the finals both years.:facepalm

[sh0wtime]

Ofcourse Lebron (alongside Kobe) is still the best player in the league? Its not like Lebron averages that much less because he all of the sudden became that much worse in just some month? Lebron just like Kobe simply do not need to produce that much as before to win. Put Wilt Chamberlain with Michael Jordan and then be honest by telling me if they still would not be the best just because their stats dropped dramatically because they dont need to be one man army anymore to win.

Superstars stats are therefore decieving especially when transitioning to much better teams, stacked teams, it doesnt measure the players entire repertoir and impact, because the guy just does anything necessary to win and they can anytime explode for massive numbers if really needed. If you still think thats BS, then go ahead and believe Pau Gasol is the best player in the NBA, because he has the best stats right now imo.

The Lakers are leading by 31 points right now over GSW and Kobe has only 15 points, should he stay in the game and statpadd his stats just because its only stats that measure how great he is in your mind?

[gts]

if you have the talent and don't use it you're not the best, you're just underachieving

if you're not giving it everything you have, you're not the best

if you're purposely taking a back seat and another player on your team is the one actually carrying the load, you're not the best

lebron is not the best... he could be if he put the work in but at this time he is not

[T-bomb 25]

Do people honestly think the Heat have a "stacked" team. :facepalm They have two elite wing players which are a little redundant, a decent PF, a few average role players, and a bunch of scrubs. That is not a "stacked" team. Yeah they have 2 superstars, but they're still an unbalanced team with very little depth. It's pretty ridiculous to call a team that started Carlos Arroyo and Joel Anthony "stacked".

The Lakers are loaded, have great balance, great size, and probably the best bench in the league. That is a stacked team.^ This the Heat are a chemistry disaster,the Lakers are stacked,we know what Kobe cant do without a stacked team,not much but chuck no better than Wade or Lebron,or even worse he has always had more talent than both of them.

[sh0wtime]

if you have the talent and don't use it you're not the best, you're just underachieving

if you're not giving it everything you have, you're not the best

if you're purposely taking a back seat and another player on your team is the one actually carrying the load, you're not the best

lebron is not the best... he could be if he put the work in but at this time he is not

With that logic (even though delusional considering Lebron is not taking any backseat and is giving his all and is actually the best player in his team), i seriously wonder who you think is then the best? Because that logic screams only stats! It sure aint Kobe, Wade either? Maybe Pau Gasol?

Another question if you dont mind, should Lebron hog all the shots from Wade & Bosh to prove that he is still the best? Because that is whats required.

[NBASTATMAN]

Forget about wade, kobe and bron... The two guys that are playing the best ball in the league right now are Chris Paul and Pau Gasol... Pau has become a superstar and has really shown how great he is... Cp3 has been by far the most impressive.. No one even believed that team was going to make the playoffs nevermind maybe win 50 plus games...

[T-bomb 25]

Ofcourse Lebron (alongside Kobe) is still the best player in the league? Its not like Lebron averages that much less because he all of the sudden became that much worse in just some month? Lebron just like Kobe simply do not need to produce that much as before to win. Put Wilt Chamberlain with Michael Jordan and then be honest by telling me if they still would not be the best just because their stats dropped dramatically because they dont need to be one man army anymore to win.

Superstars stats are therefore decieving especially when transitioning to much better teams, stacked teams, it doesnt measure the players entire repertoir and impact, because the guy just does anything necessary to win and they can anytime explode for massive numbers if really needed. If you still think thats BS, then go ahead and believe Pau Gasol is the best player in the NBA, because he has the best stats right now imo.

The Lakers are leading by 31 points right now over GSW and Kobe has only 15 points, should he stay in the game and statpadd his stats just because its only stats that measure how great he is in your mind?Leaving Wade out this discussion is just bullsh1t when he atleast has a decent team he has proven,he is more dominant than Kobe and Lebron in the playoffs,erks me to see where some of you fanboys get your logic from when your calling someone the best.:no: :facepalm

[Hihater]

How hard is it to shoot 36-38% and average 28ppg on 25 fga's? check Gasol stats they much more efficient than Kobe's.Lebron had a team similar to Wades even a lil better than the CBA talent Wade had the last few years Lebron didnt win 50 games he didnt make the playoffs 1 year and they went out in the 1st round the other.I dont see the point you are trying argue you seem slow,Wade won a ring carrying a team on his back,Lebron was on a team that won 60+ games 2 years in a row,that has only been 1 other time and he failed to make it to the finals both years.:facepalm
40% 28ppg is still a mvp winner over a 18ppg and 9rb 47% player any final..and for d-wade he only make the playoff 2 time in the last 3 year that lost both time in first round and lebron never miss a playoff in 3 years. why u keep bring it up kobe for? i never said kobe was the best anyway.

3 years not 4 my bad.

[T-bomb 25]

Forget about wade, kobe and bron... The two guys that are playing the best ball in the league right now are Chris Paul and Pau Gasol... Pau has become a superstar and has really shown how great he is... Cp3 has been by far the most impressive.. No one even believed that team was going to make the playoffs nevermind maybe win 50 plus games...Ought uhh....we all D-Will owns that little dude and does not go out in the 1st round and let his team get beat by 50+ D-Will is better them him i dont even see how thats arguable.:facepalm :no:

[Avon Barksdale]

Before he went to Heat he wasnt the best player,how can he be when his other 2 rivals both have rings and he doesnt while 1 is still in his prime and the other is still great enough to win another,stats doesn not make you better,2 years ago Wade had better stats than Lebron and Kobe but what does that really mean?

Basketball is a team game. Surely you don't think this team would win the NBA finals:

PG: Mo Williams/Delonte West
SG: Kobe Bryant/Anthony Parker
SF: Jamario Moon
PF: Antwan Jamison/Anderson Varajeo
C: Shaq/Illgauskus

The Lakers barely beat the Celtics with Perkins out for game 7, and they were completely stacked. This team would get destroyed by the Celtics. That's not a Kobe bash by any means, but I don't think any reasonable basketball fan could actually claim that that team would have much of a chance at winning the finals.

In 1988-1989 Jordan averaged 32.5 ppg on 53.8% shooting with 8 rpg, 8 apg, and 2.9 steals per game. And he had zero rings, and didn't win one that year either (lost to the Pistons in 6). This was a couple years after Larry Bird proclaimed him "God disguised as a basketball player" or whatever the quote was, and he was older than Lebron is now. Was he not the best player in the league that year? Apparently not, because he had zero rings and his rivals Bird and Magic already had rings, according to that logic.

[laronprofit9]

Kobe and Lebron have been pretty close statisically if you go by per 36.

Per 36 Minutes Stats:

Kobe

28.4 ppg 6.9 rpg 5.2 apg

Lebron

22.7 ppg 5.2 rpg 8.5 apg

Wade

23.7 ppg 5.9 rpg 3.6 apg

The best player currently is Chris Paul. James, Wade, and Bryant haven't been as impressive thus far.

[T-bomb 25]

40% 28ppg is still a mvp winner over a 18ppg and 9rb 47% player any final..and for d-wade he only make a final 2 time in the last 4 year that lost both time in first round and lebron never miss a playoff in 4 years. why u keep bring it up kobe for? i never said kobe was the best anyway.I can hardly read that sh1t you are saying,but from what i gather,you are saying Lebron is the best,ok so now let me break it to you all these other clowns why he isnt.1st of all his team has 60+ ganes 2 years in a row and they didnt make the NBA finals either year.2nd of all he left his perfectly fine team to join another top 3 player in his prime still that has won a ring to be the 2nd option along with another top 20 player.And #3 and this is a question for you if you understand the words that are coming to the keyboard,why did Lebron join the Heat Wades team along with another top 20 player instead getting his old team that won 60+ games 2 years in a row that has only been done once before to the finals like a real leader should have done?

[T-bomb 25]

Basketball is a team game. Surely you don't think this team would win the NBA finals:

PG: Mo Williams/Delonte West
SG: Kobe Bryant/Anthony Parker
SF: Jamario Moon
PF: Antwan Jamison/Anderson Varajeo
C: Shaq/Illgauskus

The Lakers barely beat the Celtics with Perkins out for game 7, and they were completely stacked. This team would get destroyed by the Celtics. That's not a Kobe bash by any means, but I don't think any reasonable basketball fan could actually claim that that team would have much of a chance at winning the finals.

In 1988-1989 Jordan averaged 32.5 ppg on 53.8% shooting with 8 rpg, 8 apg, and 2.9 steals per game. And he had zero rings, and didn't win one that year either (lost to the Pistons in 6). This was a couple years after Larry Bird proclaimed him "God disguised as a basketball player" or whatever the quote was, and he was older than Lebron is now. Was he not the best player in the league that year? Apparently not, because he had zero rings and his rivals Bird and Magic already had rings, according to that logic.This team won 60+ games twice only 1 other team has done that.Their are worst teams that have won a ring with less talent,Hakeems Rockets wernt that great,the Pistons didnt even have a superstar,excuses....excuses...wtf:

[Hihater]

I can hardly read that sh1t you are saying,but from what i gather,you are saying Lebron is the best,ok so now let me break it to you all these other clowns why he isnt.1st of all his team has 60+ ganes 2 years in a row and they didnt make the NBA finals either year.2nd of all he left his perfectly fine team to join another top 3 player in his prime still that has won a ring to be the 2nd option along with another top 20 player.And #3 and this is a question for you if you understand the words that are coming to the keyboard,why did Lebron join the Heat Wades team along with another top 20 player instead getting his old team that won 60+ games 2 years in a row that has only been done once before to the finals like a real leader should have done?
first of all english is my second language and still trying to learn. Anyway, you trying to tell me d-wade is the best player but how can he? when he don't help his team win playoff series, or at least try get his team win above .500. And this year he hasn't show us that he's best in the nba either also he got like 3-4 bad game out of 8 already and lost his team the game.

[opps]

As far as Miami's record is concerned, it's somewhat misleading right now. It's incredibly rare for a team to lose every close game they play, yet that's what's happened to them so far. A bounce here and a basket there and they could easily be 11-2. Their play(top 3 on both ends of the court) doesn't really reflect in their record, but things will eventually even out for them.

BULLSHIT!!!!
They could have beat the hornets if they slowed down Okafor & Paul. But they dont have good inside presence & bad PGs.

They could have beat the jazz if the slowed down Williams & Milsap. & probably if Lebron showed up in OT.

I didnt see the Memphis game but didnt Randoplh get off?

[T-bomb 25]

first of all english is my second language and still trying to learn. Anyway, you trying to tell me d-wade is the best player but how can he? when he don't help his team win playoff series, or at least try get his team win above .500. And this year he hasn't show us that he's best in the nba either. Even this year he got like 3-4 bad game out of 8 already and lost his team the game.Ok my bad,but what are you missing?

Championships

Wade-1

Lebron-0

Finals MVP

Wade-1

Lebron-0

That should be simple enough for you no pun intended,im having a hard time believing you get it even in your own language.:facepalm

[T-bomb 25]

BULLSHIT!!!!
They could have beat the hornets if they slowed down Okafor & Paul. But they dont have good inside presence & bad PGs.

They could have beat the jazz if the slowed down Williams & Milsap. & probably if Lebron showed up in OT.

I didnt see the Memphis game but didnt Randoplh get off?Knowone slows down D-Will,but D--Will,they just did not have a answer for him,and they did a very good job on him in the 1st half,but you had to know it wasnt gonna happen in the 2nd half.

[Hihater]

Ok my bad,but what are you missing?

Championships

Wade-1

Lebron-0

Finals MVP

Wade-1

Lebron-0

That should be simple enough for you no pun intended,im having a hard time beleiving you get it even in your own language.:facepalm
I know that but we talking about right now...but alright whatever.

[Avon Barksdale]

Leaving Wade out this discussion is just bullsh1t when he atleast has a decent team he has proven,he is more dominant than Kobe and Lebron in the playoffs,erks me to see where some of you fanboys get your logic from when your calling someone the best.:no: :facepalm

I don't have a problem with someone thinking Wade or Kobe is the best player in the league. I don't agree with it but I don't think it's an unreasonable position, they both clearly belong in the discussion.

But Kobe has obviously played with dominant big men for all 5 of his championships (Pau by himself may not be "dominant", but a front court of Odom/Gasol/Bynum is certainly dominant). And Wade had Shaq, not too far removed from his prime, and Zo, who dominated the second half of that series defensively. That Mavs team was probably one of the weakest teams, maybe the weakest, to come out of the west the past 10 years and Shaq/Zo taking over the paint was one of the main reasons for the sharp turnaround that series. The questionable officiating helped too. Lebron has never had that type of front court help, and you pretty much always need tough, rebounding defenders inside to win.

That's the problem with placing too much emphasis on rings. It's a team game and history can be drastically altered by the ball bouncing a certain way, a role player hitting or missing a shot, etc. What if Dirk had missed the game 7 3-point play and the Heat played the Spurs in the finals instead? Would Wade still have a ring? Maybe, maybe not. Had that happened, and Wade had no ring, that wouldn't make him any worse of a player, and the fact that had did get a ring that year doesn't mean he's better than Lebron.

Clearly, Wade was incredible that series and deserves a ton of credit for how he played. You can make an argument for Wade being better than Lebron, but using that ring to say he's better is a bad argument. Lebron was incredible against the Magic a few years ago in the playoffs and they still lost. Kobe was incredible against the Suns before Gasol arrived and they still lost. Jordan was incredible against the Celtics and Pistons and still lost.

[T-bomb 25]

I know that but we talking about right now...but alright whatever.Wade played all of 4 minutes in the preseason dont you think that might have something to do with the way he is playing? not to mention the hamstring injury jeessss....:facepalm

[T-bomb 25]

I don't have a problem with someone thinking Wade or Kobe is the best player in the league. I don't agree with it but I don't think it's an unreasonable position, they both clearly belong in the discussion.

But Kobe has obviously played with dominant big men for all 5 of his championships (Pau by himself may not be "dominant", but a front court of Odom/Gasol/Bynum is certainly dominant). And Wade had Shaq, not too far removed from his prime, and Zo, who dominated the second half of that series defensively. That Mavs team was probably one of the weakest teams, maybe the weakest, to come out of the west the past 10 years and Shaq/Zo taking over the paint was one of the main reasons for the sharp turnaround that series. The questionable officiating helped too. Lebron has never had that type of front court help, and you pretty much always need tough, rebounding defenders inside to win.

That's the problem with placing too much emphasis on rings. It's a team game and history can be drastically altered by the ball bouncing a certain way, a role player hitting or missing a shot, etc. What if Dirk had missed the game 7 3-point play and the Heat played the Spurs in the finals instead? Would Wade still have a ring? Maybe, maybe not. Had that happened, and Wade had no ring, that wouldn't make him any worse of a player, and the fact that had did get a ring that year doesn't mean he's better than Lebron.

Clearly, Wade was incredible that series and deserves a ton of credit for how he played. You can make an argument for Wade being better than Lebron, but using that ring to say he's better is a bad argument. Lebron was incredible against the Magic a few years ago in the playoffs and they still lost. Kobe was incredible against the Suns before Gasol arrived and they still lost. Jordan was incredible against the Celtics and Pistons and still lost.Wade is the more efficient and clutch scorer between him and Lebron i would want it in his hands come crunch time,now tell me if im wrong.And bringing Jordan in the discussion to help Lebrons case is a double edge sword and ultimately a bad idea.Jordan and the Bulls took some Whuppins for 7 or 8 years,but did he say hey,if i cant beat em join em no he didnt.He sucked it up got better with his team and came in and put in work for his rings,now tell why didnt Lebron do that?:rolleyes:

[Avon Barksdale]

This team won 60+ games twice only 1 other team has done that.Their are worst teams that have won a ring with less talent,Hakeems Rockets wernt that great,the Pistons didnt even have a superstar,excuses....excuses...wtf:

The Pistons didn't have a superstar, but they had 5 very good starters. One of the best defensive/rebounding/shot-blocking centers of all time, a PF that can stroke 3s and was one of the best man to man defenders in the league at his position, a SF with super long arms that played great defense and could do it all, a lights out catch and shoot SG that runs tirelessly the whole game, and a big, physical PG that could score, pass, and play great defense. That was one of the better defensive teams of all time, they had a great chemistry, and great balance. They didn't need a superstar to win. That is pretty much the prototype team for building a superstar-less team that can win it all.

And it's ironic that you mention them, when they damn near swept Kobe/Shaq/Payton/Malone/etc. that year...after you claimed that Kobe is better than Lebron because he has rings. Why did Kobe, playing with 3 other hall of famers, get dominated in that series by that team if they weren't that good?

Regular season and playoffs are two different things. Very few teams have front courts the caliber of the Bynum/Gasol/Odom or Perkins/KG/Pierce. They won that many games because most teams in the league don't have front courts of that caliber, but when you get into the playoffs past the first round or two it's a different story. The fact that those Cavs teams won that many games is more of a testament to how great Lebron is, than the fact that he doesn't have a ring is a testament otherwise. They struggled against big, dominant front court teams in the regular season too, it's not like they beat those teams in the regular season then Lebron choked in the playoffs. It's nearly impossible for any superstar wing player to win a ring when their front court is getting abused.

That's not excuses, that's just being rational and reasonable.

[The Iron Fist]

Leaving Wade out this discussion is just bullsh1t when he atleast has a decent team he has proven,he is more dominant than Kobe and Lebron in the playoffs,erks me to see where some of you fanboys get your logic from when your calling someone the best.:no: :facepalm


More dominant in the playoffs?

Since when did playing one round only make a player dominant in the playoffs?

Not sure if you know this, but Wade hasn't passed the first round since Shaq left.

[T-bomb 25]

The Pistons didn't have a superstar, but they had 5 very good starters. One of the best defensive/rebounding/shot-blocking centers of all time, a PF that can stroke 3s and was one of the best man to man defenders in the league at his position, a SF with super long arms that played great defense and could do it all, a lights out catch and shoot SG that runs tirelessly the whole game, and a big, physical PG that could score, pass, and play great defense. That was one of the better defensive teams of all time, they had a great chemistry, and great balance. They didn't need a superstar to win. That is pretty much the prototype team for building a superstar-less team that can win it all.

And it's ironic that you mention them, when they damn near swept Kobe/Shaq/Payton/Malone/etc. that year...after you claimed that Kobe is better than Lebron because he has rings. Why did Kobe, playing with 3 other hall of famers, get dominated in that series by that team if they weren't that good?

Regular season and playoffs are two different things. Very few teams have front courts the caliber of the Bynum/Gasol/Odom or Perkins/KG/Pierce. They won that many games because most teams in the league don't have front courts of that caliber, but when you get into the playoffs past the first round or two it's a different story. The fact that those Cavs teams won that many games is more of a testament to how great Lebron is, than the fact that he doesn't have a ring is a testament otherwise. They struggled against big, dominant front court teams in the regular season too, it's not like they beat those teams in the regular season then Lebron choked in the playoffs. It's nearly impossible for any superstar wing player to win a ring when their front court is getting abused.

That's not excuses, that's just being rational and reasonable.Jordan did it,so where are your excuses coming from now?:lol

[T-bomb 25]

More dominant in the playoffs?

Since when did playing one round only make a player dominant in the playoffs?

Not sure if you know this, but Wade hasn't passed the first round since Shaq left.And did Kobe after Shaq left when they had Bynum and he was horrid and Kobe hated his guts no he didnt they got plastered by the soft ass no defense playing Suns and Kobe still could'nt throw it in the ocean.Im pretty sure Shaq was the man when he and Kobe was together,but Wade was the man when it was him and Shaq a 60% compared to what Kobe had when Shaq dominated.:facepalm

[Avon Barksdale]

Wade is the more efficient and clutch scorer between him and Lebron i would want it in his hands come crunch time,now tell me if im wrong.And bringing Jordan in the discussion to help Lebrons case is a double edge sword and ultimately a bad idea.Jordan and the Bulls took some Whuppins for 7 or 8 years,but did he say hey,if i cant beat em join em no he didnt.He sucked it up got better with his team and came in and put in work for his rings,now tell why didnt Lebron do that?:rolleyes:

It's not a double edged sword...Jordan had 5 losing seasons, if I remember correctly. He got abused by the Celtics and Pistons in the playoffs several years. And people were saying similar things about him back then that they are saying about Lebron now, or Kobe after Shaq left. They were saying he's a ball hog, he's not a winner, he's just a stat guy, etc. In reality, he just needed a better team.

Jordan didn't have to "join 'em" because the Bulls traded for Pippen and put good front court players around him (especially for the 2nd 3-peat). Not a star, dominant center, but guys who could bang, play defense, and rebound, and not get abused inside. Ferry did a pretty poor job of constructing a team around Lebron for ~7 years, so I don't blame him for leaving. The Cavs' front court has always been week, yet Ferry passed on Millsap and Blair? As I said from the beginning though, I think he should have gone to Chicago. That would have made a lot more sense from a basketball standpoint. Noah/Boozer/Lebron/Whoever/Rose (maybe consider trading Rose for a better fitting PG) would have been extremely dominant. But again, whether or not going to Miami was a good choice, that is independent of his basketball ability.

[The Iron Fist]

And did Kobe after Shaq left when they had Bynum and he was horrid and Kobe hated his guts no he didnt.Im pretty sure Shaq was the man when he and Kobe was together,but Wade was the man when it was him and Shaq a 60% compared to what Kobe had when Shaq dominated.:facepalm

Can I get a translator please?

[The Iron Fist]

It's not a double edged sword...Jordan had 5 losing seasons, if I remember correctly. He got abused by the Celtics and Pistons in the playoffs several years. And people were saying similar things about him back then that they are saying about Lebron now, or Kobe after Shaq left. They were saying he's a ball hog, he's not a winner, he's just a stat guy, etc. In reality, he just needed a better team.

Jordan didn't have to "join 'em" because the Bulls traded for Pippen and put good front court players around him (especially for the 2nd 3-peat). Not a star, dominant center, but guys who could bang, play defense, and rebound, and not get abused inside. Ferry did a pretty poor job of constructing a team around Lebron for ~7 years, so I don't blame him for leaving. The Cavs' front court has always been week, yet Ferry passed on Millsap and Blair? As I said from the beginning though, I think he should have gone to Chicago. That would have made a lot more sense from a basketball standpoint. Noah/Boozer/Lebron/Whoever/Rose (maybe consider trading Rose for a better fitting PG) would have been extremely dominant. But again, whether or not going to Miami was a good choice, that is independent of his basketball ability.


Yet, they won 127 games in two seasons and many people thought they were going to win the championship both times.

[Jacks3]

lol @ Miami not being stacked. Good lord.

[T-bomb 25]

It's not a double edged sword...Jordan had 5 losing seasons, if I remember correctly. He got abused by the Celtics and Pistons in the playoffs several years. And people were saying similar things about him back then that they are saying about Lebron now, or Kobe after Shaq left. They were saying he's a ball hog, he's not a winner, he's just a stat guy, etc. In reality, he just needed a better team.

Jordan didn't have to "join 'em" because the Bulls traded for Pippen and put good front court players around him (especially for the 2nd 3-peat). Not a star, dominant center, but guys who could bang, play defense, and rebound, and not get abused inside. Ferry did a pretty poor job of constructing a team around Lebron for ~7 years, so I don't blame him for leaving. The Cavs' front court has always been week, yet Ferry passed on Millsap and Blair? As I said from the beginning though, I think he should have gone to Chicago. That would have made a lot more sense from a basketball standpoint. Noah/Boozer/Lebron/Whoever/Rose (maybe consider trading Rose for a better fitting PG) would have been extremely dominant. But again, whether or not going to Miami was a good choice, that is independent of his basketball ability.STFU dumbass they drafted Pippen as a rookie out of Central Arkansas a NAIA school he didnt even play division 2 college ball and he wasnt that good at 1st and he was soft,he got abused and punked out by Rodman when they were the Badboys.I can tell your young and you dont know sh1t,and it was 7 or 8 years before he won a title with a pitiful frontcourt that got a lil better over the years.:facepalm

[G-Funk]

lol @ Miami not being stacked. Good lord.
:oldlol: they were supposed to be the best team in the league, they had the2 best players, busting triple doubles for a whole season. They still pulling excuse cards. lol


I never thought Lebron was the best player, He was the best at putting up numbers but he's leadership and mentality are a huge factor to me.

[Lakers13]

I think he's the best regular season player, but currently not playing like it.

[G-Funk]

And did Kobe after Shaq left when they had Bynum and he was horrid and Kobe hated his guts no he didnt they got plastered by the soft ass no defense playing Suns and Kobe still could'nt throw it in the ocean.Im pretty sure Shaq was the man when he and Kobe was together,but Wade was the man when it was him and Shaq a 60% compared to what Kobe had when Shaq dominated.:facepalm
:wtf: did u just say?

[G-Funk]

if you have the talent and don't use it you're not the best, you're just underachieving

if you're not giving it everything you have, you're not the best

if you're purposely taking a back seat and another player on your team is the one actually carrying the load, you're not the best

lebron is not the best... he could be if he put the work in but at this time he is not


This

[Avon Barksdale]

STFU dumbass they drafted Pippen as a rookie out of Central Arkansas a NAIA school he didnt even play division 2 college ball and he wasnt that good at 1st and he was soft,he got abused and punked out by Rodman when they were the Badboys.I can tell your young and you dont know sh1t,and it was 7 or 8 years before he won a title with a pitiful frontcourt that got a lil better over the years.:facepalm

Wrong, the Bulls did not draft Pippen, the Sonics did and the Bulls traded Olden Polynice for him. Get your history right.

When Jordan retired the first time the Bulls won 55 games and took the Knicks to 7 games. What a pathetic supporting cast. :oldlol: Who cares that he played at Central Arkansas, seriously, what does that have to do with anything? He was drafted 5th overall, obviously people believed he had a lot of potential. You act like he was some scrub that Jordan magically turned into a great player. :facepalm

Horace Grant and Rodman are pitiful front court guys? Horance Grant was a 4-time all-defensive selection. Rodman was a great defender and one of the best rebounders in NBA history. :facepalm

You can tell I'm young? I'm about to turn 29. :oldlol: Funny I was thinking the same thing about you.

It's pretty funny that you continually criticize Hihater's English when he's not a native speaker, yet yours isn't any better. :roll:

[Simple Jack]

To the comment "if you are not giving all you got, you are not the best".

How do you gauge how much someone is giving? Even if you could, it's all relative. A top player, not trying to full capacity, can still be the best in the league if he's just that good.

On a side note, no one should change their opinion from last year based on ~12 games. It's not nearly enough of a sample size.

[LA_Showtime]

Yeah. Although it's obvious he hasn't figured out how he wants to play on a regular basis. Is he a scorer? A passer?

[Avon Barksdale]

Yet, they won 127 games in two seasons and many people thought they were going to win the championship both times.

They were good enough to roll over most of the weak teams in the NBA but clearly had major match up problems against some of the top teams. They got abused inside against the big front court teams. I don't know why people keep throwing out those win totals like they're all that meaningful. :confusedshrug: There's a clear difference between being built to win a bunch of regular season games and being built to win a championship. I thought they would make the finals last year but I thought they had very little chance of beating the Lakers. The ESPN hype machine tends to skew reality these days.

The Mavs won 60 and 67 games two years in a row too. Similar to the Cavs, they had good enough teams to roll over most of the weaker teams but lacked the inside presence to win it all, although they came close in the 60 win season, but even then Shaq and Zo dominated the paint in the latter half of that series. The Suns won 60 and I never took them for top contenders either. The Celtics only won 50 games last year and they took the Lakers to 7 games. Regular season win totals aren't a very good judge of a team's ability to win it all.

Having said that though, Lebron's play in a couple of those Celtics games in the playoffs last year was pretty awful. He looked pretty disinterested at times. It was bizarre. It's hard to win when your front court is getting dominated, but he does deserve some flak for his play in that series.

[T-bomb 25]

Wrong, the Bulls did not draft Pippen, the Sonics did and the Bulls traded Olden Polynice for him. Get your history right.

When Jordan retired the first time the Bulls won 55 games and took the Knicks to 7 games. What a pathetic supporting cast. :oldlol: Who cares that he played at Central Arkansas, seriously, what does that have to do with anything? He was drafted 5th overall, obviously people believed he had a lot of potential. You act like he was some scrub that Jordan magically turned into a great player. :facepalm

Horace Grant and Rodman are pitiful front court guys? Horance Grant was a 4-time all-defensive selection. Rodman was a great defender and one of the best rebounders in NBA history. :facepalm

You can tell I'm young? I'm about to turn 29. :oldlol: Funny I was thinking the same thing about you.

It's pretty funny that you continually criticize Hihater's English when he's not a native speaker, yet yours isn't any better. :roll:If they swapped on draft night dont you think he was the guy they wanted? knowone says that Golden St. drafted Penny and Orlando drafted Webber now do they? the plan was perdetermined thats what goes on for the most part at the draft.Rodman already had won 2 titles with the Pistons the same team that was busting their ass.And really how much different was he from a Ben Wallace?he was 6'7 with 0 offensive game and not a shotblocker,Grant was decent,but if you call Bill Cartright,Will Purdue,Bill Winnington,Luc Longley,and Stacey King quality frontcourt players you are smoking something.Pippen's development took about 4 years he was very mediocore at times,they drafted him with the thoughts of him being a great athletic defender no other team were planning on taking Pippen that high but the Bulls,they had no clue that he was gonna turn into the great all around player that he did.

[Dave3]

They were good enough to roll over most of the weak teams in the NBA but clearly had major match up problems against some of the top teams.
That was only true 2 years ago. Last year they showed they could beat Orlando, LA, Boston, etc during the season. Why they regressed so much during the post season is kind of a mystery. He played much worse, his shot was more off, and his dribbling was slightly poorer. Whether that's attributed to a lack of effort, or a bad elbow, or w/e else is possible, I don't know, but it's clear that they were good enough to win in February, but they weren't in May.

[blondie]

That was only true 2 years ago. Last year they showed they could beat Orlando, LA, Boston, etc during the season. Why they regressed so much during the post season is kind of a mystery. He played much worse, his shot was more off, and his dribbling was slightly poorer. Whether that's attributed to a lack of effort, or a bad elbow, or w/e else is possible, I don't know, but it's clear that they were good enough to win in February, but they weren't in May.
Regular season doesn't matter, especially when Cavs have showed time and time again they can't produce their regular season form in the playoffs when all these contending teams like Boston and Orlando put the clamps on and make adjustments, unlike regular season when it doesn't really matter so much who wins

[brownmamba00]

Playoffs>regular season

best regular season player:LeBron
best playoff performer: Kobe

Kobe's playoff performances>LeBron reg.season stats

[Sarcastic]

The guy wins back to back MVPs, but people are gonna say he is no longer the best because of a 13 game stretch on a new team, in which he is learning a new role?

[blondie]

The guy wins back to back MVPs, but people are gonna say he is no longer the best because of a 13 game stretch on a new team, in which he is learning a new role?
Lebron is a no excuses guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V25rBBTDvJs

WE DA BESS

[ILLsmak]

LeBron is the best player in the league. He is on another level. Unfortunately, because he is on a team where he doesn't fit, he has to take away from them to "show his talents."

And he's not able to morph into a 2ndary guy. A lot of people don't think that's a talent, but I do. Any great player should be able to be a role player. Some guys just can't accept it, though.

You won't see LeBron like "tonight my shot is off, and we're getting killed on the boards, so I'm going down low." And his assists are mostly 3 point assists. Which is great, but mostly he's just dribbling around and passing to a spotted 3 point shooter. I think someone said that Miami has the least amount of assists that lead to a layup.

So, yes, in terms of players who you could build a championship caliber team around, LeBron is still the best by far. Kind of like MJ level best. But until they give the Heat to him completely and try to build around him more (and Wade becomes the bigger man and says he'll be the scottie pippen) then they aren't gonna be winning rings.

-Smak

[alenleomessi]

Yes :confusedshrug:

[krazymofo]

Yes, and has been for the last 3 seasons.

[Kblaze8855]

Hes been the best player since at least 2008 and nothing that has happened in the last month shows hes lost anything he had last year.

[stridge]

yes.....

5 years and counting

[lilgodfather1]

I still consider him the best talent in the league, but as for the best statisticla production no he is not.

[Ikill]

agree to disagree.

since 05....i think wade has been the best player. its very very close for me. but i'll take wade.
Most people are going to disagree with you but i'll say this if everything had gone right for Wade if he avoided the injuries from 05-08 and if he had a good team in 09 and 10 and if he got the hype lebron did i don't even think it would be close at this point. But thats not the case instead Lebron had the perfect team to inflate his stats and has had the media hyping him all the time so Lebron has played better mvps, stats, team success but i don't know if he is the better player.

[DeronMillsap]

Playoffs>regular season

best regular season player:LeBron
best playoff performer: Kobe

Kobe's playoff performances>LeBron reg.season stats
This!!!!

[ginobli2311]

This!!!!

kobe has not been great in the playoffs.

examples:

thunder series
nba finals this year
2008 nba finals

etc.

lol at the idea that kobe has been some brilliant playoff performer. far from it. he's simply been on the best team.

[Droid101]

kobe has not been great in the playoffs.

examples:

thunder series
nba finals this year
2008 nba finals

So... you cherry-pick his worst series? Why not show some of his best and try to tell me "he declines in the playoffs."

[Jasper]

Is the two time and reigning MVP, just entering the prime of his career, still the best player in the league?

LOL.

Uh, yes.

Right now he is on a .500 team , and not built around him as was the Cav's.
But people might be surprised , if
1) CP3 and the Hornets drop off to a 7,8 seed or not even make the playoffs
2) Lebron wins the MVP again :pimp:

[blondie]

LeBron is the best player in the league. He is on another level. Unfortunately, because he is on a team where he doesn't fit, he has to take away from them to "show his talents."

And he's not able to morph into a 2ndary guy. A lot of people don't think that's a talent, but I do. Any great player should be able to be a role player. Some guys just can't accept it, though.

You won't see LeBron like "tonight my shot is off, and we're getting killed on the boards, so I'm going down low." And his assists are mostly 3 point assists. Which is great, but mostly he's just dribbling around and passing to a spotted 3 point shooter. I think someone said that Miami has the least amount of assists that lead to a layup.

So, yes, in terms of players who you could build a championship caliber team around, LeBron is still the best by far. Kind of like MJ level best. But until they give the Heat to him completely and try to build around him more (and Wade becomes the bigger man and says he'll be the scottie pippen) then they aren't gonna be winning rings.

-Smak
Um, Lebron should be the Pippen. Like Pippen, Lebron has already showed he has the talent and athleticism, but not the leadership or mental strength to be a champion as the number one guy. Wade on the other hand already has a title, one of the best finals performances of all time, and becomes unstoppable in the playoffs, for example this year when he put up 48 points against a Celtics defense completely keyed in on stopping only him.

Like Pippen, Lebron is also a great ballhandler with great size, athleticism and passing skill. He has the most potential to be a deadly lockdown perimeter defender, and should start focusing on that.

Lebron has the skillset, body, and choking mentality of Pippen with the massive ego of jordan, until he accepts that he needs to take a backseat to Wade and it is Wade's team the heat will win nothing.

[ginobli2311]

So... you cherry-pick his worst series? Why not show some of his best and try to tell me "he declines in the playoffs."

did i say he declines? nope

i simply said that everyone claiming kobe is better in the playoffs is simply ignoring the evidence.

kobe has been good in the playoffs. but certainly not any better than lebron. in fact, he's been worse against similar competition over the last few years.

nobody is saying kobe sucks or anything. he just hasn't been head and shoulders above everyone and his clutch play has actually been pretty bad in the playoffs. he's missed his last like 10 potential shots in game winning or game tying situations.

his 4th qtr play in the nba finals was beyond bad. i could go on and on.

is he one of the best? of course...but its his team strength that is the true reason why they are winning...not because kobe is playing all time great ball.

that is the difference nobody here wants to talk about.

[Irish]

Still the best player, has been for the last two years, but for whatever reason, maybe its in his head, I could not trust him in crunch time. He would have been much better off playing with a great number 2 option who complimented his skillset and could defer to him.

Nobody remembers how often Gasol went missing in the playoffs last year but were carried by Kobe playing great because when Kobe's shot was off Gasol managed to up his game.

[MrJohnWall]

:facepalm
did i say he declines? nope

i simply said that everyone claiming kobe is better in the playoffs is simply ignoring the evidence.

kobe has been good in the playoffs. but certainly not any better than lebron. in fact, he's been worse against similar competition over the last few years.

nobody is saying kobe sucks or anything. he just hasn't been head and shoulders above everyone and his clutch play has actually been pretty bad in the playoffs. he's missed his last like 10 potential shots in game winning or game tying situations.

his 4th qtr play in the nba finals was beyond bad. i could go on and on.

is he one of the best? of course...but its his team strength that is the true reason why they are winning...not because kobe is playing all time great ball.

that is the difference nobody here wants to talk about.


yeah cuz in 08 Lebron shot 35% against Boston while Kobe put up 28 on 41%

Spurs held Lebron to 35% and one of the worst overall series for a superstar and Kobe light them up for 30 and 52%

lol see how easy it is to cherry pick games

[ginobli2311]

:facepalm


yeah cuz in 08 Lebron shot 35% against Boston while Kobe put up 28 on 41%

Spurs held Lebron to 35% and one of the worst overall series for a superstar and Kobe light them up for 30 and 52%

lol see how easy it is to cherry pick games

am i claiming lebron to be by far the better playoff performer? nope. wrong again.

i will say that lebron has played with far less help since 07 and has played slightly better in the playoffs even with much less help in my opinion. we could also talk about lebron's superior floor game than kobe. you know...passing and rebounding count as well. and lebron was much better than kobe in those areas since 07.

we could also talk about lebron's superior defense. or the fact that anyone that guards lebron for a series struggles immensely on the offensive end because guarding lebron takes such a big toll on energy and body.

its not all ppg and fg%. we could also talk about how much better lebron has been with the game on the line in the playoffs since 07.

i'm not going to debate this. kobe has been good in the playoffs. but his level of play has not been any better at all than wade/lebron. its been team strength.....thats painfully obvious to anyone watching.

[Monkey D Dragon]

Can I get a translator please?


:roll: :roll: :roll:

[madmax]

Still is and has been the best player in the game for the past 4 years or so...anyone who says otherwise is clearly trolling or doesn't have any idea about the game of basketball...
End thread:cheers:

[Dave3]

Regular season doesn't matter, especially when Cavs have showed time and time again they can't produce their regular season form in the playoffs when all these contending teams like Boston and Orlando put the clamps on and make adjustments, unlike regular season when it doesn't really matter so much who wins
WTH is 'time and time again'? It was one season where the Cavs lost to teams they beat in the regular season (last year). That was the only time. In 2006 they beat the Wizards but lost to the superior Pistons (same results as regular season). 2007, they OVERachieved, beating the Pistons which no one expected. In 2008 they were normal, beating inferior teams but losing to superior teams. In 2009 they destroyed the same teams they beat in the regular season, but again lost to Orlando, whom they also lost against in the regular season. As you can see (I hope), they never lost to a team in the playoffs which they beat in the regular season. The idea of them being regular season overachievers is completely mythical. They lose to the same teams in the playoffs as they do in the season....

[branslowski]

lol @ Miami not being stacked. Good lord.

Only LeBron nut hugger say this.....Why? I have no idea.:facepalm

[The Iron Fist]

Still?


He has Wade and Bosh on his team,

and the best he can do with them is 8 and f ucking 6?

:roll:


Don't tell me,

"he doesn't have a legit second option"?

[MrJohnWall]

lol the masses dont believe it
His meltdown in Boston turned alot of people into disbelivers

and now being 8-6 on one of the most stacked teams in NBA history

i dont think other then Lebron stans

anybody can believe that

[The Iron Fist]

lol @ getting two neg reps because the Heats suck balls with Lebron as their leader.

I guarantee you,

we'll now be hearing those guys say, "its Wades team".


At least leave your names cowards.

[asdf1990]

lol its wades team, who plays like shit ahaha. 1-13 what a leader.

[Avon Barksdale]

and now being 8-6 on one of the most stacked teams in NBA history


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

2.5 players does not make for a stacked team. Are you like 9 years old or something? :oldlol:

A team that plays Carlos Arroyo, an old Illgauskus, James Jones, Joel Anthony, and Eddie House big minutes is one of the most stacked teams in NBA history? :roll: Good God people. Can't tell if mentally retarded. :facepalm

[Sarcastic]

2.5 players does not make for a stacked team.



How many teams in the history of the NBA have been able to sign 3 max free agents in one year? If that is not stacked, then no team has ever been stacked.

[Jacks3]

So now the Heat aren't stacked. Unbelievable. :roll: :roll:

[Doranku]

So now the Heat aren't stacked. Unbelievable. :roll: :roll:

Yet, the Lakers are. :roll: :roll: :roll:

[DeronMillsap]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

2.5 players does not make for a stacked team. Are you like 9 years old or something? :oldlol:

A team that plays Carlos Arroyo, an old Illgauskus, James Jones, Joel Anthony, and Eddie House big minutes is one of the most stacked teams in NBA history? :roll: Good God people. Can't tell if mentally retarded. :facepalm
This Heat team is more stacked than the Shaq-Kobe Lakers, Jordan-Pippen Bulls(91-93), Hakeem's 94 team and Duncan's '99 and '03 teams.

That Lakers and Bulls teams had two stars and a bunch of role players. Rockets had one star and a bunch of role players. Spurs had one star, a couple of older players and role players.

[Willkill24]

2.5 players does not make for a stacked team.

Yep. cause teams that are not stacked are hyped to win 70+ games. :rolleyes:

[Harion]

Lakers are not stacked.
truth brother.
it's just Kobe Bryant and some mofos.

[cteach111]

So now the Heat aren't stacked. Unbelievable. :roll: :roll:
Lakers are stacked, but the Heat are also stacked.

When did the Big 3 become the Big 2.5?

It's funny that there's quite a few people that think these guys made a mistake signing with this team. They could make it work if they had SKILL. They just don't have enough of it :rolleyes: . These guys can't post, 2 of them can't consistently shoot a jumpshot, they all have mediocre FT shooting, their 3P shooting is suspect, none of them have off-ball game except Wade to an extent.

Those SKILL issues are serious flaws in their offense. Can this all be possibly fixed in a year? Absolutely not.

[rammerman]

how can lebron "still" be the best player in the league if he was never the best player in the league in the first place?

:confusedshrug:

[Monkey D Dragon]

You know, LeBron didn't have a team good enough to not show up and shoot 6-24 in Game 7 of the Finals yet still win.


Where is this fagggggot now ? He said 1. LeBron 2. Wade ??? After tonight game he disappear just like LeBron against Boston.

Where is this Papafaggggot

[bdreason]

LeBron may still be the best player in the game, but he isn't playing at that level this season (yet), and there are plenty of other players performing better right now.

[Monkey D Dragon]

LeBron may still be the best player in the game, but he isn't playing at that level this season (yet), and there are plenty of other players performing better right now.


Its not just LeBron its the "Little 3"

[G-Funk]

Lebron was never the best player. lol

[oh the horror]

Ah, so the downplaying of Lebron's teammates begins huh?

[LA KB24]

Lebron was never the best player. lol He was the best regular season player in 09/10.

[Samurai Swoosh]

He was the best regular season player in 09/10.
Not in 2008 - 2009, though ... that was D. Wade

But deep down everyone knows who the best is ... and the best doesn't come out in the regular season.

:D

[Scoooter]

Before the season, I had it 1) Lebron, 2) Wade. Wade for sure has been disappointing.

[G-Funk]

He was the best regular season player in 09/10.

regular season yes but not overall

[LA KB24]

Not in 2008 - 2009, though ... that was D. Wade

But deep down everyone knows who the best is ... and the best doesn't come out in the regular season.

:D
:cheers:

[NbaFan432]

Not in 2008 - 2009, though ... that was D. Wade

But deep down everyone knows who the best is ... and the best doesn't come out in the regular season.

:D

regular season yes but not overall
Who's better than him?

[Samurai Swoosh]

Who's better than him?
Do you watch NBA basketball?

[NbaFan432]

Do you watch NBA basketball?
Yes. Answer the question.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

I don't think there is such thing a one best player in the league, but if there was one, it wouldn't be Lebron. Basketball is a team sport and there are several players that could be the best on any given night. I'm biased but if I had to pick one guy, I'd pick Kobe as the best player.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Yes. Answer the question.
If you watch and understand the nuanced aspects to the game, you should be able to answer this question.

[TheCorporation]

What do you mean based on what? The guy is a back to back MVP All-Nba First Defense who led his team to 66-16 and 61-21 last two years. He has a player just as good as him on the team this year so he reduced his shots.

The guy if he was in Cleveland this year would of went for 32\9\7.

Couldn't agree more. Miami isn't looking too hot so who better to blame than LeBron, right? LeBron is the #1 player in the legue no doubt. His skill, athleticism, ability to shoot, drive, dunk, defend, knock down 3's, and being at his prime is all in favor of him being #1 (Back to back MVP's don't hurt either)

[NbaFan432]

I'd like to know what you guys' criteria is for "Best Player".

When I think of who is the "Best Player", I think about who I could see doing "more with less".

As big a Kobe fan as I am, I just don't see him being able to do good "much with less". Lebron has proven what he can do with little, and we've seen what Wade can do as well.

Lebron to me is the clear best player in the league, Dwight is a close 2nd.

[emsteez forreal]

23 p 9 a 5 r (lol) 2 s 45% 29%3p 78%ft

His team, with better teammates than hes had in any season,
is in a tie for 3rd place in the division, and a 4th seed in the east.


and, was he ever really the best player in the game or was it all a smokescreen?

:confusedshrug:




So come one, call all, bring all your favorite smilies, :facepalm ,:wtf: , :rolleyes: and :no: and explain your thoughts.

really? better teammates collectively, or just the 2 all-stars? 'cause i'd definitely consider the '09-'10 cavs to be better than this year's heat.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

really? better teammates collectively, or just the 2 all-stars? 'cause i'd definitely consider the '09-'10 cavs to be better than this year's heat.

A lot of people act like the 09-10 Cavs were just Lebron and a bunch of worthless retards.

[emsteez forreal]

A lot of people act like the 09-10 Cavs were just Lebron and a bunch of worthless retards.


well,
mo >>> arroyo/house/chalmers
hickson > anthony
parker > j. jones

altogether that was a better team. the heat's front office really just scrapped together anyone to surround the big 3.

[NbaFan432]

I'd like to know what you guys' criteria is for "Best Player".

When I think of who is the "Best Player", I think about who I could see doing "more with less".

As big a Kobe fan as I am, I just don't see him being able to do good "much with less". Lebron has proven what he can do with little, and we've seen what Wade can do as well.

Lebron to me is the clear best player in the league, Dwight is a close 2nd.
So this is how u get negative reps huh? :roll:

Guess I shoulda known better.

[coin24]

Dwight a close second...?? Really???

I don't like to use the word overrated much but it perfectly describes Dwight Howard.. For all the descriptions of what a best player is in this thread, Dwight is none of those. Shit in the clutch. Garbage ft shooter. Can't take over a game etc...

Especially in today's game with barely any centers..!!


Could be svg's fault though, I've never seen a coach change his starting 5 EVERY FKN GAME!!!