Kobe will win the MVP and scoring title this year.

[The Iron Fist]

How will people try to downplay it?

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

scoring title?:confusedshrug:

[gts]

probably not, he seems more interested in the lakers winning games and getting rest... that's a ton of work going after scoring titles and such

[StillKill24]

no.

[The Iron Fist]

scoring title?:confusedshrug:



Scoring PPG

1. K. Durant OKC 27.3
2. K. Bryant LAL 26.7

[StillKill24]

Scoring PPG

1. K. Durant OKC 27.3
2. K. Bryant LAL 26.7

both are chucking :oldlol:

[Lakers13]

He will only win MVP if they are the #1 seed again.

Scoring title is possible since he's been in chuck mode recently, but his shots will come down when Bynum is back and Gasol is 100% again.

[MrJohnWall]

I dont see him winning the scoring title. Unless Durant trys to play team basketball. But he has a very good chance of winning MVP

Haters response if he wins MVP

"He won by default. Lebron could have won 10 in a row if he stayed in Cleveland"

"Pau is the real MVP"

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Scoring PPG

1. K. Durant OKC 27.3
2. K. Bryant LAL 26.7

Oh Damn!! I didnt no it was that close! Yeah he does have a chance @ winning the scoring title.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

I dont see him winning the scoring title. Unless Durant trys to play team basketball. But he has a very good chance of winning MVP

Haters response if he wins MVP

"He won by default. Lebron could have won 10 in a row if he stayed in Cleveland"

"Pau is the real MVP"

nope actually Dwight/D-will are more deserving of this award IMO

[SoCalMike]

How will people try to downplay it?

why would you post this other than to troll people into pages of senseless arguments... you don't know what kobe or any other player will do during the season anymore than anyone else... seriously...



:pimp:

[DRoseOwnsACamry]

both are chucking :oldlol:
FG% doesn't matter for scoring title.

[Manute for Ever!]

How will people try to downplay it?

http://static.tvguide.com/MediaBin/Galleries/Imported/ShowPix/Jonathan/imagesA_M/married-with-children.jpg
"Ehh... no Peg."

[The Iron Fist]

why would you post this other than to troll people into pages of senseless arguments... you don't know what kobe or any other player will do during the season anymore than anyone else... seriously...



:pimp:



Is that just like,

"The Lakers will win when the Kobe is surrounded by the right teammates."

Many people said that in the past, and guess what happened?

Mitch made some great moves, surrounded Kobe with better players,

and the Lakers are looking at a 3 peat.


But when people said that,

they should have just kept their mouths shut because they didn't know what Mitch was going to do or if the Lakers would win.

Its a discussion forum, if you don't like the topic,

be gone.

Since you want to be thread monitor,

this one needs you.

http://insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=199817

[SoCalMike]

Is that just like,

"The Lakers will win when the Kobe is surrounded by the right teammates."

Many people said that in the past, and guess what happened?

Mitch made some great moves, surrounded Kobe with better players,

and the Lakers are looking at a 3 peat.


But when people said that,

they should have just kept their mouths shut because they didn't know what Mitch was going to do or if the Lakers would win.

Its a discussion forum, if you don't like the topic,

be gone.

but how is it a topic? seems like you posted it to piss people off? :confusedshrug:



:pimp:

[LA KB24]

Kobe is not going for the scoring title, at least I hope he isn't.
MVP is fine with me though. :D

[The Iron Fist]

but how is it a topic? seems like you posted it to piss people off? :confusedshrug:



:pimp:


Do people not downplay everything Kobe does?

Kobe wins 3 titles early in his career, "he rode Shaqs coattails"
Kobe wins scoring titles, "hes a ballhog chucker and his team didn't win anything."
Kobe wins MVP, "Chris Paul should have got it"
Kobe wins 2 FMVP, "Hes not even the best player on his team"


Looks like a topic to me.

Now if Kobe happens to win another scoring title and MVP,

how will people try to downplay it like they do all of his achievements?

[catch24]

Fisting yourself to the idea of Kobe getting another scoring title, huh?

Seriously, though, who cares? Kobe's not worried or playing for regular season awards.

[Leviathon1121]

Since we are senselessly generalizing people.

They will downplay it the same way you Laker fans downplay everything Jordan, or any other great accomplished to make Bryant look better.

Discuss?

[sixerfan82]

He will?

Ok, now that it's settled we can move onto more interesting topics

[New York Knicks]

probably not, he seems more interested in the lakers winning games and getting rest... that's a ton of work going after scoring titles and such
Then why's he taking so many shots?

[BarberSchool]

No. Duncan, Durant, or Dirk will win MVP, and Melo will win the scoring title.

[MrJohnWall]

Can someone please ban this troll?
if thats the case
We should bump your Lebron threads
and get you banned as well

[dbronx42]

Oh Damn!! I didnt no it was that close! Yeah he does have a chance @ winning the scoring title.

Almost 3,000 posts in under 2 months...? Time to slow down bro. There is other things in the world besides insidehoops.

[che guevara]

No. Duncan, Durant, or Dirk will win MVP, and Melo will win the scoring title.
Durant? He hasn't even been the MVP of his own team so far this year. Duncan hasn't either. I seriously Melo will win the scoring title, he's basically quit on the Nuggets.

[The Iron Fist]

Since we are senselessly generalizing people.

They will downplay it the same way you Laker fans downplay everything Jordan, or any other great accomplished to make Bryant look better.

Discuss?
Do people not downplay everything Kobe does?

Kobe wins 3 titles early in his career, "he rode Shaqs coattails"
Kobe wins scoring titles, "hes a ballhog chucker and his team didn't win anything."
Kobe wins MVP, "Chris Paul should have got it"
Kobe wins 2 FMVP, "Hes not even the best player on his team"

[LA KB24]

No. Duncan, Durant, or Dirk will win MVP, and Melo will win the scoring title.
lol @ Melo.

[ATL_Bball_King]

Its really hard to say if he will win MVP...Maybe scoring title if he can have a better percentage...

But i dont think this scoring title or MVP is on his mind...He thinking about that 3 peat and gettin another ring...So like Durant who might care more about the scoring title might get it...Now that LBJ and Wade are on the same team they are not in the running and melo scoring has gone down so kobe could get the scoring title if he gets more consistant with shooting percentage

[BarberSchool]

lol @ Melo.He'll get traded to the bulls midseason, and miraculously Rose will become proficient running the pick and roll with him.....resulting in a 31.2 ppg average for Melo this season.

[AlFarouqAminu]

Durant is playing like **** and he is still leading so i say No and No on both, Howard for MVP

[ashbelly]

Do people not downplay everything Kobe does?

Kobe wins 3 titles early in his career, "he rode Shaqs coattails"
Kobe wins scoring titles, "hes a ballhog chucker and his team didn't win anything."
Kobe wins MVP, "Chris Paul should have got it"
Kobe wins 2 FMVP, "Hes not even the best player on his team"


Looks like a topic to me.

Now if Kobe happens to win another scoring title and MVP,

how will people try to downplay it like they do all of his achievements?


We won't, he will make it easier for us by not doing his shit flawless. There is always something that he does that ****s up his achievement.. Like his MVP, everybody and their mama swears that CP3 should've got it, his back 2 back Finals MVP performance broke records for the worst shooting in history eversince the award was introduced in the league, his 1st 3 rings are questionable because of playing with Shaq, he had a chance to redeem himself when shaq was gone, Gasol came through and we constantly hear how gasol made this team a Championship team..

Basically it's not people criticising his stuff, it's that he's achievements always have an asterisk besides them, they are not Flawless like jordans/lebron/Wade. I know i'll get alot of Negs for this but, it is what it is. :oldlol:

[Ne 1]

We won't, he will make it easier for us by not doing his shit flawless. There is always something that he does that ****s up his achievement.. Like his MVP, everybody and their mama swears that CP3 should've got it, his back 2 back Finals MVP performance broke records for the worst shooting in history eversince the award introduced in the league, his 1st 3 rings are questionable because of plying with Shaq, he had a chance to redeem himself when shaq was gone, Gasol came through and we constantly hear how gasol made this team a Championship team..

Basically it's not people criticising his stuff, it's that he's achievements always have an asterisk besides them, they are not Flawless like jordans/lebron. I know i'll get alot of Negs for this but, it is what it is. :oldlol:


http://i692.photobucket.com/albums/vv283/robinsat/Kobe-UMad.jpg

[gts]

Then why's he taking so many shots?he's averaging less this year than last... he's had 5 seasons where he has averaged more FGA's then he is so far this season

[tpols]

We won't, he will make it easier for us by not doing his shit flawless. There is always something that he does that ****s up his achievement.. Like his MVP, everybody and their mama swears that CP3 should've got it, his back 2 back Finals MVP performance broke records for the worst shooting in history eversince the award was introduced in the league, his 1st 3 rings are questionable because of playing with Shaq, he had a chance to redeem himself when shaq was gone, Gasol came through and we constantly hear how gasol made this team a Championship team..

Basically it's not people criticising his stuff, it's that he's achievements always have an asterisk besides them, they are not Flawless like jordans/lebron/Wade. I know i'll get alot of Negs for this but, it is what it is. :oldlol:
What a bunch of shit:oldlol:

-kobe averaged 30/7/6 on 56% TS in their dominating 01 performance 27/5/5+, etc. during that first 3 peat which are the best performances by a perimeter player in the playoffs this whole decade. He also was the main go to guy in the clutch for their runs. People were'nt comparing him to jordan back than for nothing. Dude was a top 3 player in the league back then.

-lol at you if you think kobe doesn't deserve an mvp award. Even his biggest haters have him in the top ten all time list which pretty much requires an mvp.

-And if you think gasol has had a bigger impact on his last two rings than he has you're an idiot. Watching the boston series alone would tell you that the opposing team's defensive coach didn't think so at all.:oldlol:

[Shep]

he's averaging less this year than last... he's had 5 seasons where he has averaged more FGA's then he is so far this season
he's shooting more per minute than he has in any season in his career, besides the year he scored 35ppg.

lol @ kobe winning mvp. with that roster the only chance he deserves to even be in the discussion is if pau gets injured, misses 40 games, and bryant leads them to 65 wins.

[Bigsmoke]

The Lakers are too deep unless they win 68 games.

[The Iron Fist]

Shep and Big Smoke,

did rosters and teammates hurt the chances for every other MVP winner in the history of the sport?

Magic had Kareem, Worthy, Scott, etc.
Bird had Mchale, Parrish, Johnson, etc.
Jordan had Pippen, Rodman, Grant, etc.


Why does Kobe have to be the only player in history to win an MVP with Smush, Kwame and Brian Cook for it to be valid?


All we've heard the last 5-6 years about MVP,

"top 4 seed"
"50 wins"
"best player on best team"


Now, none of that matters?

What is your criteria for MVP?

[ginobli2311]

We won't, he will make it easier for us by not doing his shit flawless. There is always something that he does that ****s up his achievement.. Like his MVP, everybody and their mama swears that CP3 should've got it, his back 2 back Finals MVP performance broke records for the worst shooting in history eversince the award was introduced in the league, his 1st 3 rings are questionable because of playing with Shaq, he had a chance to redeem himself when shaq was gone, Gasol came through and we constantly hear how gasol made this team a Championship team..

Basically it's not people criticising his stuff, it's that he's achievements always have an asterisk besides them, they are not Flawless like jordans/lebron/Wade. I know i'll get alot of Negs for this but, it is what it is. :oldlol:

i don't really agree that kobe's titles with shaq should have and asterisk. kobe was key for all of them and they would not have won without him. he was better than just a normal 2nd option. all you have to say is this:
"shaq was the best player on those title teams"

thats a fact. but kobe's play and contributions were fantastic for the most part not counting the nba finals.

kobe deserved the mvp in 08. did paul deserve it as well? sure. but kobe's year was great and kobe is the better overall player. i have no problem with that.

so i don't really agree with this post. but i do agree that kobe has put together this great career/resume without playing the game at the extremely high level that most of the other greats in the top ten have. thats why i have him at 10 or 11 all time. his level of play is just not up there and neither is his impact. i just don't see how kobe could win a title without having an uber loaded supporting cast and an all time great coach.

but you are right. it is what it is. let the negging begin. LOL

[The Iron Fist]

We won't, he will make it easier for us by not doing his shit flawless. There is always something that he does that ****s up his achievement.. Like his MVP, everybody and their mama swears that CP3 should've got it, his back 2 back Finals MVP performance broke records for the worst shooting in history eversince the award was introduced in the league, his 1st 3 rings are questionable because of playing with Shaq, he had a chance to redeem himself when shaq was gone, Gasol came through and we constantly hear how gasol made this team a Championship team..

Basically it's not people criticising his stuff, it's that he's achievements always have an asterisk besides them, they are not Flawless like jordans/lebron/Wade. I know i'll get alot of Negs for this but, it is what it is. :oldlol:
lol @ this flawless shit.

I don't recall any player winning every game or making every shot.

[The Iron Fist]

i don't really agree that kobe's titles with shaq should have and asterisk. kobe was key for all of them and they would not have won without him. he was better than just a normal 2nd option. all you have to say is this:
"shaq was the best player on those title teams"

thats a fact. but kobe's play and contributions were fantastic for the most part not counting the nba finals.

kobe deserved the mvp in 08. did paul deserve it as well? sure. but kobe's year was great and kobe is the better overall player. i have no problem with that.

so i don't really agree with this post. but i do agree that kobe has put together this great career/resume without playing the game at the extremely high level that most of the other greats in the top ten have. thats why i have him at 10 or 11 all time. his level of play is just not up there and neither is his impact. i just don't see how kobe could win a title without having an uber loaded supporting cast and an all time great coach.

but you are right. it is what it is. let the negging begin. LOL


Name one title team without great role players or "uber talented" players.

Name one title team with an Erik Spo as their coach.

[ginobli2311]

Shep and Big Smoke,

did rosters and teammates hurt the chances for every other MVP winner in the history of the sport?

Magic had Kareem, Worthy, Scott, etc.
Bird had Mchale, Parrish, Johnson, etc.
Jordan had Pippen, Rodman, Grant, etc.


Why does Kobe have to be the only player in history to win an MVP with Smush, Kwame and Brian Cook for it to be valid?


All we've heard the last 5-6 years about MVP,


"top 4 seed"
"50 wins"
"best player on best team"


Now, none of that matters?

What is your criteria for MVP?

ol. none of that matter if his level of play and impact was greater. its that simple. there is no formula. the best player on the best team just usually is having an amazing year.

do you really think kobe deserves the award if the lakers have the best record and kobe's level of play does not improve?

come on.

[ginobli2311]

Name one title team without great role players or "uber talented" players.

Name one title team with an Erik Spo as their coach.

spurs in 03

rockets in 94.

owned.

[Bigsmoke]

Shep and Big Smoke,

did rosters and teammates hurt the chances for every other MVP winner in the history of the sport?

Magic had Kareem, Worthy, Scott, etc.
Bird had Mchale, Parrish, Johnson, etc.
Jordan had Pippen, Rodman, Grant, etc.


Why does Kobe have to be the only player in history to win an MVP with Smush, Kwame and Brian Cook for it to be valid?


All we've heard the last 5-6 years about MVP,

"top 4 seed"
"50 wins"
"best player on best team"


Now, none of that matters?

What is your criteria for MVP?

Magic got all of his MVP after Kareem hit 40 years old. You are looking at the MVP award as a way to add more bragging rights about Kobe than what it actually stand for. The Lakers are loaded with another top 10 players thats worthy of an MVP award by many and so far not playing what being said on paper. Of course that could and i think WILL change. I do believe that Kobe is a better player but i think Dwight is more "valuable" to the Magics than Kobe to to his Lakers team so far this season. Same goes to Chris Paul.

[ginobli2311]

Name one title team without great role players or "uber talented" players.

Name one title team with an Erik Spo as their coach.

plenty of teams have won titles with what the 08 lakers had. plenty. and the lakers were crushed in that series.

kobe needed even more. he needed ariza to develop and then he needed the artest addition.

and that is fine and would be fine if kobe's level of play was higher. but when the dude shoots 40% for his career in the finals and has played pretty bad in 04/08/10.....you have to start looking at his team strength.

if kobe was shooting 48% and coming up huge in key moments in the nba finals and winning them all. nobody would talk about his team. its that simple.

[Ne 1]

spurs in 03

rockets in 94.

owned.


Your saying they '03 Spurs and '94 Rockets didn't have great role players and "uber talented" players?

Popovich and Rudy T are on coach Spo's level?

I think you just owned yourself.

[ginobli2311]

Your saying they '03 Spurs and '94 Rockets didn't have great role players and "uber talented" players?

Popovich and Rudy T are on coach Spo's level?

I think you just owned yourself.

the 03 spurs and 94 rockets had less than half the talent outside of duncan and hakeem that the current lakers do.

i don't know what you are talking about with Spo. that makes no sense.

look.

where are kobe's legendary performances when his team is down and struggling in the nba finals?

where was he in 04? this guy is supposed to be one of the best ever. why can't he ever elevate his play and his team's play when they are down?

where was he in 08? why couldn't he establish himself as the best player in that series. is phil jackson odom/gasol/fisher and decent role players really not enough? are you really going to say he didn't have enough help?

where was he in the 06 series against the suns? he scored almost 8 points less per game in that playoff series than he did in the regular season. the suns were one of the worst defensive teams in the league.

why couldn't he dominate that series the way wade dominated the nba finals that same year? why does a guy like wade play so much better against the quality defensive teams in the playoffs?


the dude won three titles in 8 years playing with a prime/peaking shaq. come on now. thats hardly legendary. 3 titles in 8 years. stop acting like that is some amazing accomplishment as the 2nd best player on a title team with the greatest coach ever and a group of veteran role players/big shot makers like horry/fisher.

nobody is taking away from his accomplishments at all. he just hasn't played at the same high level as the other greats. its that simple. you have to win and play great. its not complicated.
where are kobe's legendary games as the leader of this team since 05 when the team needs him to step up when they are in danger of losing?

[Ne 1]

the 03 spurs and 94 rockets had less than half the talent outside of duncan and hakeem that the current lakers do.


Don't know what your getting at here. The 2003 Spurs and 1994 Rockets had good talent even outside of Duncan and Hakeem despite what you think. The Lakers have two superstar players in Kobe and Gasol but other teams had more well rounded teams. Don't know why your trying to act like the Lakers have some legendary stacked team or something.


where are kobe's legendary performances when his team is down and struggling in the nba finals?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n5qLQ6ZUKE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7Lp5aQq4zI

That was despite doctor's advising him to have surgery on his ankle that he injured in game 2 and sit out for the rest of the series.




where was he in 04?

He had a bad performance in the 2004 series vs Pistons, every Laker fan will tell you that. I really don't know what your getting at though. That was seven years ago and Kobe as come a long way since then. Anyways players should be judged by their greatness and accomplishments, not their short comings.



where was he in 08?

He showed up in 2008. The Lakers just got outplayed and lost to the better team.

Your just trolling. Kobe gets all the blame when his team loses but dosen't deserve any credit when they win? You talk about Gasol but ignore that he got completely destroyed by KG that series


where was he in the 06 series against the suns?

Really? The Suns had a stacked team with All-Star Shawn Marion as the third option, while the Lakers third leading scorer was Brian Cook. Kobe was playing with a bunch of guys that aren't even in the league anymore and you criticize him for losing against the Suns in '06? Your the same guy that gives LeBron a pass for losing against the Magic and Celtics despite having home court advantage and the #1 overall seed. Total hypocrisy.





the dude won three titles in 8 years playing with a prime/peaking shaq. come on now. thats hardly legendary.

Kobe is a 5x champion and that is all that matters. Who cares if he played with prime Shaq, that's irrelevant. Shaq and Kobe were one of the greatest duo's in NBA history they both earned their stripes during the 3-peat. Look at Kobe's playoff production.

2000: 21/5/4
2001: 29/7/6
2002:27/6/5
With countless clutch shots and performances.

Not to mention a lot of people considered Kobe the 2nd best player in the league from 2001-2002.

Kobe's 3 titles don't count because he won with a dominant center? Do Magic's 5 titles not count because he won with Kareem?



he just hasn't played at the same high level as the other greats. its that simple. you have to win and play great.

Kobe has played at a very high level, won and played great. Don't know what the hell your talking about.

[Shep]

Shep and Big Smoke,

did rosters and teammates hurt the chances for every other MVP winner in the history of the sport?

Magic had Kareem, Worthy, Scott, etc.
Bird had Mchale, Parrish, Johnson, etc.
Jordan had Pippen, Rodman, Grant, etc.


Why does Kobe have to be the only player in history to win an MVP with Smush, Kwame and Brian Cook for it to be valid?


All we've heard the last 5-6 years about MVP,


"top 4 seed"
"50 wins"
"best player on best team"


Now, none of that matters?

What is your criteria for MVP?
you have to find a middle ground. bryant's team is the deepest team in nba history and last season it consisted of 2 of the best 3 players in basketball, the best sixth man in the nba who also happened to be a top 6 power forward, a former defensive player of the year, and one of the best young centers in the nba. this season they've added onto that with great role players like barnes, and blake.

bryant also has to become the best player on his team for him to win it this season, which he clearly hasn't been over the first 20 games (which is why i said gasol needs to miss games for bryant to overtake him).

i just don't see it happening.

lebron won it last season with jamison/williams/o'neal
and in '09 with williams/ilgauskas/west
chris paul deserved it in '08 with west/chandler/stojakovic

these casts are all decidedly weaker than bryant's current cast

[ginobli2311]

Don't know what your getting at here. The 2003 Spurs and 1994 Rockets had good talent even outside of Duncan and Hakeem despite what you think. The Lakers have two superstar players in Kobe and Gasol but other teams had more well rounded teams. Don't know why your trying to act like the Lakers have some legendary stacked team or something.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n5qLQ6ZUKE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7Lp5aQq4zI



He had a bad performance in the 2004 series vs Pistons, every Laker fan will tell you that. I really don't know what your getting at though. That was seven years ago and Kobe as come a long way since then. Anyways players should be judged by their greatness and accomplishments, not their short comings.




He showed up in 2008. The Lakers just got outplayed and lost to the better team.

Your just trolling. Kobe gets all the blame when his team loses but dosen't deserve any credit when they win? You talk about Gasol but ignore that he got completely destroyed by KG that series



Really? The Suns had a stacked team with All-Star Shawn Marion as the third option, while the Lakers third leading scorer was Brian Cook. Kobe was playing with a bunch of guys that aren't even in the league anymore and you criticize him for losing against the Suns in '06? Your the same guy that gives LeBron a pass for losing against the Magic and Celtics despite having home court advantage and the #1 overall seed. Total hypocrisy.

why couldn't he dominate that series the way wade dominated the nba finals that same year? why does a guy like wade play so much better against the quality defensive teams in the playoffs?

[QUOTE]
the dude won three titles in 8 years playing with a prime/peaking shaq. come on now. thats hardly legendary.

Kobe is a 5x champion and that is all that matters. Who cares if he played with prime Shaq, that's irrelevant. Shaq and Kobe were one of the greatest duo's in NBA history they both earned their stripes during the 3-peat. Look at Kobe's playoff production.

2000: 21/5/4
2001: 29/7/6
2002:27/6/5
With countless clutch shots and performances.

Not to mention a lot of people considered Kobe the 2nd best player in the league from 2001-2002.

Kobe's 3 titles don't count because he won with a dominant center? Do Magic's 5 titles not count because he won with Kareem?



Kobe has played at a very high level, won and played great. Don't know what the hell your talking about.

agree to disagree.

you miss my points.

nobody is saying kobe is not a great great player. he's just not on the same level as the truly elite all time in my opinion.

for all the reasons i've mentioned. and LOL at the idea that kobe showed up in the 08 finals. paul pierce and kg outplayed him. he should have clearly been the best player in that series.

he had enough around him to win. his play was simply not good enough. so sick of hearing the "help" excuse in 08.

you aren't showing up when you are mainly a scorer and you shoot 40% for a series. that is not showing up. he also let his team wilt under the pressure and blow a huge lead at home.

[game3524]

I think Dwight will be the MVP, scoring title may be possible, even when Bynum returns Kobe shot's aren't going to drop that much. If anyone takes the hit, it will be Pau.

[DeronMillsap]

Give Kobe the regular season MVP. Usually regular MVP's don't win a title the same season. :lol

Shaq and Duncan are the ones who's done it the last 12 years.

[game3524]

you have to find a middle ground. bryant's team is the deepest team in nba history and last season it consists of 2 of the best 3 players in basketball, the best sixth man in the nba who also happened to be a top 6 power forward, a former defensive player of the year, and one of the best young centers in the nba. this season they've added onto that with great role players like barnes, and blake.

bryant also has to become the best player on his team for him to win it this season, which he clearly hasn't been over the first 20 games (which is why i said gasol needs to miss games for bryant to overtake him).

i just don't see it happening.

lebron won it last season with jamison/williams/o'neal
and in '09 with williams/ilgauskas/west
chris paul deserved it in '08 with west/chandler/stojakovic

these casts are all decidedly weaker than bryant's current cast

When was Pau a top 3 player? And the Lakers aren't the deepest team in NBA history, in fact their depth was one of the biggest reason people didn't think they would repeat.

You got to love Kobe haters, they will do anything to bring down his accomplishments.

[Ne 1]

In the Finals, the Lakers swept the New Jersey Nets, and once again Shaq won the MVP Award. Kobe wasn't too bad either, averaging 27 points, 5.8 rebounds, and 5.3 assists per game, while shooting 51.4% from the floor.

It was also in this series that Bryant would begin to gain his reputation as clutch. In fourth quarters alone, he shot a staggering 63% from the field, while scoring 12 and 11 in the final quarter of games three and four.

USA Today recognized his greatness, saying: "Never before has a player on the winning team put up the numbers and had the impact that Bryant had against the Nets and not been selected series MVP."

:applause:

[Ne 1]

he's just not on the same level as the truly elite all time in my opinion.

And why is it that you don't believe he's on the same level as the other all-time elite players?

Honest question. What are your thought processes whenever you decide debate basketball. Where do you gather your information from? How do you construct your thoughts? Do you read any dissenting views on the subject? Do you do any critical thinking?

I really want to know.

[Leviathon1121]

He had a bad performance in the 2004 series vs Pistons, every Laker fan will tell you that. I really don't know what your getting at though. That was seven years ago and Kobe as come a long way since then. Anyways players should be judged by their greatness and accomplishments, not their short comings.

Aren't you one of the Bryant homers who comes into Jordan threads and copy and paste the same tired stuff like "Jordans winning % without Pippen SUCKS" followed by 457 :roll: ?

Why is it you can't hold Bryant to the same diminishment standards that you hold Jordan too?

[tpols]

And why is it that you don't believe he's on the same level as the other all-time elite players?

Honest question. What are your thought processes whenever you decide debate basketball. Where do you gather your information from? How do you construct your thoughts? Do you read any dissenting views on the subject? Do you do any critical thinking?

I really want to know.
he's trolling man. Kobe has been the best player of this generation and the second most clutch player all time behind jordan. A true champion. Don't even bother with him.

[ginobli2311]

And why is it that you don't believe he's on the same level as the other all-time elite players?

Honest question. What are your thought processes whenever you decide debate basketball. Where do you gather your information from? How do you construct your thoughts? Do you read any dissenting views on the subject? Do you do any critical thinking?

I really want to know.

i just watch. and then i go to the numbers. its not complicated. when i watch kobe play....i think he's great. but i don't think he's as great as like duncan/shaq/lebron/wade of this era. or bird/mj/magic..etc. all time.

my eyes tell me. then i go to the stats and numbers and they confirm what my eyes see. its like watching kobe play in the finals. if i didn't know the numbers i would have thought:

"damn...that guy is shooting way too much for how many shots he's making"...and "damn...that guy is turning the ball over a lot in critical situations and missing and taking even more awful shots late in the game"

and guess what? the numbers (critical turnovers late and 25% shooting in the 4th qtrs for the series) back up what i saw unfold.

its not difficult at all. i saw kobe wilt in 04 and 08. truly elite players don't get outplayed by the likes of paul pierce on the biggest stage. truly great players don't play the 04 series against the pistons.

again. imagine mj getting outplayed by drexler and the blazers winning the title and drexler winning finals mvp. LOL at that idea. and i'll take drexler over pierce all day as a player.

kobe takes some of the worst shots i've ever seen in big games and big moments. could you imagine bird freezing his teammates out and chucking it up at like 37% in the nba finals? its laughable.

[Ne 1]

Aren't you one of the Bryant homers who comes into Jordan threads and copy and paste the same tired stuff like "Jordans winning % without Pippen SUCKS" followed by 457 :roll: ?

Why is it you can't hold Bryant to the same diminishment standards that you hold Jordan too?

The only reason I ever brought that up was for the trolls hating on Pippen saying that he's just a overrated side-kick and that Jordan made him.

I just point out the fact that Pippen without Jordan did better than Jordan did without Pippen. Of course its deeper than that but I'm just trolling trolls is all.

[tpols]

i just watch. and then i go to the numbers. its not complicated. when i watch kobe play....i think he's great. but i don't think he's as great as like duncan/shaq/lebron/wade of this era. or bird/mj/magic..etc. all time.

my eyes tell me. then i go to the stats and numbers and they confirm what my eyes see. its like watching kobe play in the finals. if i didn't know the numbers i would have thought:

"damn...that guy is shooting way too much for how many shots he's making"...and "damn...that guy is turning the ball over a lot in critical situations and missing and taking even more awful shots late in the game"

and guess what? the numbers (critical turnovers late and 25% shooting in the 4th qtrs for the series) back up what i saw unfold.

its not difficult at all. i saw kobe wilt in 04 and 08. truly elite players don't get outplayed by the likes of paul pierce on the biggest stage. truly great players don't play the 04 series against the pistons.

again. imagine mj getting outplayed by drexler and the blazers winning the title and drexler winning finals mvp. LOL at that idea. and i'll take drexler over pierce all day as a player.

kobe takes some of the worst shots i've ever seen in big games and big moments. could you imagine bird freezing his teammates out and chucking it up at like 37% in the nba finals? its laughable.
lol don't even put wade in the same sentence as kobe. What has wade done outside of 06 when he had a shaquille oneal who was still getting mvp votes? Go ahead and tell us what he's done. Lets see those eastern conference first round stats.:oldlol:

[Ne 1]

kobe takes some of the worst shots i've ever seen in big games and big moments

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWXvi8waXyA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8nEqiEZQ30&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZOXZea1iGk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDpPrdF6ANs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4p0vfX6j1Pw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlusnThciI4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xqLrgyVIAE

[G-Funk]

ginobli2311 is the biggest scum on Insidehoops, he only likes to discuss Kobe, that boy is upsets with Kobe.

[ginobli2311]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWXvi8waXyA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8nEqiEZQ30&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZOXZea1iGk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDpPrdF6ANs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4p0vfX6j1Pw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlusnThciI4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xqLrgyVIAE

and i could find a list like that for every great player.

you and i are arguing different things. so agree to disagree. nothing will ever convince me that kobe is better than bird/shaq/duncan/hakeem.

i've seen 14 years of basketball. its not happening. his level of play and impact is simply not as good as theirs. its that simple for me.

so agree to disagree.

[ginobli2311]

lol don't even put wade in the same sentence as kobe. What has wade done outside of 06 when he had a shaquille oneal who was still getting mvp votes? Go ahead and tell us what he's done. Lets see those eastern conference first round stats.:oldlol:

and what did kobe do without shaq or gasol?

lets see those first round western conference stats...oops....he didn't get there one year with lamar and butler

LOL:facepalm

quick. run to rings. thats all kobe stans can do when wade comes up. wade has better numbers and his performed better against the same competition. quick....to the rings. always....to the rings.

lol at trying to diminish wade in 06 because he played with shaq. kobe played with a prime/peaking shaq for 8 years. wade got an over the hill shaq for two years. LOL

kobe = epic fail in 03 and 04 with shaq

wade = could have won back to back titles in 05/06 if not for a shoulder injury in 05 with a worse shaq

owned again.

seriously....mother ****ing owned.

lets look at kobe's numbers against the pistons in 04 and compare those to wade's numbers in 05 and 06 against the same team. lets look at rookie wade with butler/odom. lets look at wade last year against the celtics. lets look at career overall numbers.

who's more efficient. who's the better passer. who's not a selfish player. who performs better against the great defenses. who's PER is better.

LOL

[ginobli2311]

and bird is a much better clutch player than kobe. and shaq and duncan are the two best players of this generation.

you show you know nothing ranking kobe over them. nothing.

[tpols]

and what did kobe do without shaq or gasol?

lets see those first round western conference stats...oops....he didn't get there one year with lamar and butler

LOL:facepalm
niether did wade for a year...in a conference that is consistently 10+ games worse than its' western counterpart. Wade has never even sniffed an mvp award. Wade would'nt even make the playoffs in the west.:oldlol:

[ginobli2311]

niether did wade for a year...in a conference that is consistently 10+ games worse than its' western counterpart. Wade has never even sniffed an mvp award. Wade would'nt even make the playoffs in the west.:oldlol:

and kobe has never even sniffed the level of play that wade was at in 06 in his third year. LOL

in his first year in the finals. wade trumped anything kobe has ever done for his career in 7 trips to the finals. LOL.

[Ne 1]

Shaq was 2nd in MVP voting and actually robbed of the MVP award in 2005.

Yeah, he sure was over the hill. :oldlol:

The only time Miami was even considers a championship contender was when he was traded there. Before then they were never even close to being in the discussion.

[ginobli2311]

Shaq was 2nd in MVP voting and actually robbed of the MVP award in 2005.

Yeah, he sure was over the hill. :oldlol:

The only time Miami was even considers a championship contender was when he was traded there. Before then they were never even close to being in the discussion.

so what happened in 03 and 04 with kobe? if shaq was still so great?

why did wade play so much better against the pistons than kobe?

something doesn't add up. oh wait....its because wade is a better player and plays much better against tough defenses. thats it. i almost forgot.

[The Iron Fist]

Magic got all of his MVP after Kareem hit 40 years old. You are looking at the MVP award as a way to add more bragging rights about Kobe than what it actually stand for. The Lakers are loaded with another top 10 players thats worthy of an MVP award by many and so far not playing what being said on paper. Of course that could and i think WILL change. I do believe that Kobe is a better player but i think Dwight is more "valuable" to the Magics than Kobe to to his Lakers team so far this season. Same goes to Chris Paul.


and?

The Lakers still didn't have Worthy, Scoot, Cooper, etc? They didn't have deep teams that went far into the playoffs?

Bird didn't play with other Hall of Famers on his team?
Jordan didn't have quality talent on his teams?


Why is Kobe held to this standard that he must achieve with sub par talent on his team in comparison to everyone else in history?

[Ne 1]

and kobe has never even sniffed the level of play that wade was at in 06 in his third year. LOL

in his first year in the finals. wade trumped anything kobe has ever done for his career in 7 trips to the finals. LOL.

D-Whistle toke 97 free throws that series which was more than all of the Mavericks top 3 scores combined. :roll:

Even if you count that shady championship Wade would trade in that one ''Finals performance'' for Kobe's 5 rings in a heat beat.

[ginobli2311]

career in playoffs:

wade:

26 points 5 boards 6 assists on 50% efg with a PER of 24. peak PER of 29.4.

kobe:

25.5 points 5 boards 5 assists on 48% efg with a PER of 22.4. peak PER of 26.8.

wade raises his level of play against the toughest defenses and in the nba finals. kobe lowers his level of play against the toughest defenses and in the nba finals.

and again. i'm simply saying that wade is slightly better. you are the moron claiming that wade doesn't deserve to be in the same sentence.

you have been owned. please stop posting.

owned.

Gino

[StillKill24]

and kobe has never even sniffed the level of play that wade was at in 06 in his third year.

lol it's funny as hell when people overrate the shit out of a finals series of 6 games like it's some kind of different out of this world level of pro basketball. :oldlol: didn't kobe average 35.4 ppg the whole 2005-06 season ? :oldlol:

[ginobli2311]

D-Whistle toke 97 free throws that series which was more than all of the Mavericks top 3 scores combined. :roll:

Even if you count that shady championship Wade would trade in that one ''Finals performance'' for Kobe's 5 rings in a heat beat.

so we should remove kobe's in 02 then of course as well. that has been proven. the refs cheated.

[ginobli2311]

lol it's funny as hell when people overrate the shit out of a finals series of 6 games like it's some kind of different out of this world level of pro basketball. :oldlol: didn't kobe average 35.4 ppg the whole 2005-06 season ? :oldlol:

and allen iverson averaged 33 points per game on 2 less shots that same year.

next?

damn its so easy to refute everything you people post.

[Jodie Meeks]

Kobe isn't ahead of Shaq on the All-Time list yet...Doesn't have the facts to back that claim up...

[StillKill24]

and allen iverson averaged 33 points per game on 2 less shots that same year.

next?

damn its so easy to refute everything you people post.

ok ?

[BEAST Griffin]

Compare Wade in the series against the Celtics last year to Kobe's series against the Celtics last year.

Kobe had much more trouble with the Celtics defense.

[DeronMillsap]

Kobe isn't ahead of Shaq on the All-Time list yet...Doesn't have the facts to back that claim up...
I got both Shaq and Duncan slightly ahead of Kobe.

[The Iron Fist]

spurs in 03

rockets in 94.

owned.


Owned?

Duncan had Bowen, Ginobili, Jackson, Kerr, Parker, Robinson, Rose, Smith and Willis. That is a great combination of young talent combined with veteran players. How is that not a quality team?

Hakeem had Maxwell, Smith, Horry, Cassell, and Elie. But I forgot, in your world, those guys are all scrubs who never deserved to be on an NBA court.

Those were teams in the vein of the 04 Pistons. They all played into the concept of team and worked like a great machine.

lol, owned. Those are damn good players and they're champions for a reason, and its not because they sucked.


So again, which teams won with the likes of Smush Parker, Brian Cook, Chris Mihm and the Kwame Browns of the world?

Go ahead. Post them and "own" me.

[Jodie Meeks]

ok ?

I guess it was suppose to mean the year wasn't that good....Sorry, I don't speak troll.

[ginobli2311]

ok ?

you act like it was some amazing feat. scoring was absurdly easy that year. and again.

in the playoff that year? kobe only scored 28 a game and blew a 3-1 series lead. don't you think it would have been more impressive to dominate in the playoffs?

and again. kobe couldn't dominate the suns....yet that same year....wade dominated a much better mavs team on the biggest stage.

ok?

[StillKill24]

lol 35ppg over 6 games is more impressive than 35ppg over 80 games ? :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[tpols]

you act like it was some amazing feat. scoring was absurdly easy that year. and again.

in the playoff that year? kobe only scored 28 a game and blew a 3-1 series lead. don't you think it would have been more impressive to dominate in the playoffs?

and again. kobe couldn't dominate the suns....yet that same year....wade dominated a much better mavs team on the biggest stage.

ok?
yea when he was playing with a shaq that got more mvp votes than him:oldlol:

Didn't kobe drop 63 through three on those same mavs.:roll: :applause:

[ginobli2311]

Owned?

Duncan had Bowen, Ginobili, Jackson, Kerr, Parker, Robinson, Rose, Smith and Willis. That is a great combination of young talent combined with veteran players. How is that not a quality team?

Hakeem had Maxwell, Smith, Horry, Cassell, and Elie. But I forgot, in your world, those guys are all scrubs who never deserved to be on an NBA court.

Those were teams in the vein of the 04 Pistons. They all played into the concept of team and worked like a great machine.

lol, owned. Those are damn good players and they're champions for a reason, and its not because they sucked.


So again, which teams won with the likes of Smush Parker, Brian Cook, Chris Mihm and the Kwame Browns of the world?

Go ahead. Post them and "own" me.

i never said any team won with awful players. i simply said that other stars have won without uber elite supporting casts.

the spurs were supposed to be rebuilding in 03. i hardly think its fair to compare them to the lakers.

i'll ask another question. when has kobe over-achieved in his career with his team?

[catch24]

lol @ the usual idiots coming to the rescue, wanting to cup Kobe's sack. You do a good job overrating him and making his fan base look even more dumb.

Kobe's a top 10 player of all time, that's it. Really all you have to say.

[Ne 1]

wade is a better player

:oldlol:

"I believe that Kobe Bryant is still the best player in the game, his experience and his overall talent. It

[ginobli2311]

yea when he was playing with a shaq that got more mvp votes than him:oldlol:

Didn't kobe drop 63 through three on those same mavs.:roll: :applause:

so a regular season game is more important than the finals?

didn't kobe wilt under the pressure in 06 in the playoffs. again. please answer.

why couldn't kobe dominate the suns? why?

[Jodie Meeks]

I got both Shaq and Duncan slightly ahead of Kobe.

I have Duncan super high on my All-Time list.....Some say I overrate him...I too have Duncan>>>Kobe.



And FYI to this thread....The pro Kobe argument isn't just about the rings....It's more about the Finals MVP's, the All-NBA's, The All-Defensive, the fact that he's 2nd All-Time in career Game-winners, His All-Star app...All-Star MVP's, Top 5 in Playoff points, nearly a decade of Avg atleast 25-5-5 every year....The 24 career 50pt games...The 5 60pt games, just the complete scoring package, the most dominant perimeter scorer since THE G.O.A.T retired...Known as this era's Jordan basically...I could go on...But it's about somuch more than his 5 rings...Once haters realize this and go deep in the facts, the world would be a better place.

The same complete facts that proves Kobe to be top 10 is the same facts that proves he's no where close to Jordan, KAJ....

[ginobli2311]

:oldlol:

"I believe that Kobe Bryant is still the best player in the game, his experience and his overall talent. It’s not taking away from LeBron, it’s not taking away from Carmelo, it’s not taking away from myself,” Wade told ESPN Radio Chicago. “Kobe has been in the game longer than the rest of us, he’s older than us, he’s smart with the game. He’s the better player.” - Dwayne Wade

You forgot one important thing. Flip FREAKING SAUNDERS replaced Larry Brown in 2005. The defensive philosophy is replaced which may have improve their offensive output in the regular season, but greatly undermined their playoff chances. The team philosophy had complete drifted. Comparison between the two may not be valid unless you are looking at the records at the same season.


You really are dense and did not look at my reasoning at all, did you? The All-Defensive Team is voted on and is probably one of the more biased and un-statistically based awards in basketball.

Do you understand the term Defensive Rating? It is how many points a team gives up per 100 possessions. The per 100 possessions is to eliminate the possibly that some teams, like the Pistons, play at a slower tempo and give up less PPG. It is the absolute basis for determining how well a team plays defense. Better defense? Lower amount of points per 100 possessions. Worse defense? Higher amount.

2003-04 Pistons Defensive Rating: 95.4

Again, to clarify, this means that the team gave up 95.4 points per 100 possessions.

2004-05 Pistons Defensive Rating: 101.2

Hmm, that means that they gave up 101.2 points per 100 possessions. That would be getting worse by 5.8 points, wouldn't it?

2005-06 Pistons Defensive Rating: 103.1

Again, see the pattern????





This analysis can also be done for players.

2003-04: Tayshaun Prince gives up 98 Points per 100 Possessions.
2004-05: Prince gives up 104 Points per 100 Possessions.
2005-06: 106 Points per 100 Possessions.


Thanks for the argument though
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DET/
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/princta01.html

wrong. larry brown was still the coach for the 05 finals. wade played much better in 05 against the pistons than kobe did in 04 before his injury.

please explain last year against the celtics as well. same team. wade owned them. celtics owned kobe.

or how about 06 when wade destroyed the mavs yet kobe couldn't destroy the suns. LOL

keep grasping. wade is as good or slightly better. facts and numbers and my eyes don't lie.

just like the ball don't lie. why does kobe's ball seem to not go in as often in the finals? is it the pressure getting to him? i honestly don't know why he sucks so hard on the biggest stage.

[JJ81]

We won't, he will make it easier for us by not doing his shit flawless. There is always something that he does that ****s up his achievement.. Like his MVP, everybody and their mama swears that CP3 should've got it, his back 2 back Finals MVP performance broke records for the worst shooting in history eversince the award was introduced in the league, his 1st 3 rings are questionable because of playing with Shaq, he had a chance to redeem himself when shaq was gone, Gasol came through and we constantly hear how gasol made this team a Championship team..

Basically it's not people criticising his stuff, it's that he's achievements always have an asterisk besides them, they are not Flawless like jordans/lebron/Wade. I know i'll get alot of Negs for this but, it is what it is. :oldlol:

lmao yeah, flawless. Because Wade didn't have Shaq, did he? LeBron won loads of championships, didn't he? :blah

Take Kobe out of any of those championship team and they wouldnt have made the finals.

[BEAST Griffin]

you act like it was some amazing feat. scoring was absurdly easy that year. and again.

in the playoff that year? kobe only scored 28 a game and blew a 3-1 series lead. don't you think it would have been more impressive to dominate in the playoffs?

and again. kobe couldn't dominate the suns....yet that same year....wade dominated a much better mavs team on the biggest stage.

ok?

Kobe homers are a funny bunch.

In the series against the Thunder it was Kobe's finger fracture (avulsion fracture, FYI) that supposedly caused him to have a bad offensive series, but then he coincidentally had a better series against the Jazz, and especially against the Suns...and both of those teams also happen to be weaker defensively. Then he struggled again against the Celtics, who also have good defense.

But a hell of a lot of Kobe homers still blame it on the finger.

:facepalm

[ginobli2311]

I have Duncan super high on my All-Time list.....Some say I overrate him...I too have Duncan>>>Kobe.



And FYI to this thread....The pro Kobe argument isn't just about the rings....It's more about the Finals MVP's, the All-NBA's, The All-Defensive, the fact that he's 2nd All-Time in career Game-winners, His All-Star app...All-Star MVP's, Top 5 in Playoff points, nearly a decade of Avg atleast 25-5-5 every year....The 24 career 50pt games...The 5 60pt games, just the complete scoring package, the most dominant perimeter scorer since THE G.O.A.T retired...Known as this era's Jordan basically...I could go on...But it's about somuch more than his 5 rings...Once haters realize this and go deep in the facts, the world would be a better place.

The same complete facts that proves Kobe to be top 10 is the same facts that proves he's no where close to Jordan, KAJ....


the problem with your assertion is that you assume kobe fans are saying what you are. they aren't. they are saying he's better than duncan/shaq/bird/hakeem.

if everyone said what you just said i would agree with them. but they don't.

they say "kobe is so much better than wade its laughable" ...they say "kobe is the best player of this generation by far"

they say "kobe is 2nd best all time"

so until then. i'll be right here speaking the truth.

[catch24]

I have Duncan super high on my All-Time list.....Some say I overrate him...I too have Duncan>>>Kobe.

The same complete facts that proves Kobe to be top 10 is the same facts that proves he's no where close to Jordan, KAJ....

Brans? If that's you, what's up?

This thread is funny to me man. Most of the sh*t that these kiddies are arguing has been squashed years ago by you, I and other haters. We were ahead of our time; that's for sure. :oldlol:

[ginobli2311]

Kobe homers are a funny bunch.

In the series against the Thunder it was Kobe's finger fracture (avulsion fracture, FYI) that supposedly caused him to have a bad offensive series, but then he coincidentally had a better series against the Jazz, and especially against the Suns...and both of those teams also happen to be weaker defensively. Then he struggled again against the Celtics, who also have good defense.

But a hell of a lot of Kobe homers still blame it on the finger.

:facepalm

yep. funny how good defense brings out those injuries.

[Ne 1]

didn't kobe wilt under the pressure in 06 in the playoffs. again. please answer.

didn't mj wilt under the pressure in the 86 playoffs?

what's your point?

[The Iron Fist]

you have to find a middle ground. bryant's team is the deepest team in nba history and last season it consisted of 2 of the best 3 players in basketball, the best sixth man in the nba who also happened to be a top 6 power forward, a former defensive player of the year, and one of the best young centers in the nba. this season they've added onto that with great role players like barnes, and blake.

bryant also has to become the best player on his team for him to win it this season, which he clearly hasn't been over the first 20 games (which is why i said gasol needs to miss games for bryant to overtake him).

i just don't see it happening.

lebron won it last season with jamison/williams/o'neal
and in '09 with williams/ilgauskas/west
chris paul deserved it in '08 with west/chandler/stojakovic

these casts are all decidedly weaker than bryant's current cast

and Magic won with Kareem, Worthy, Scott, Cooper, etc. (2 other HOFers)
Bird won with Parrish, Johnson, McHale, etc. (3 other HOFers)
Jordan won with Pippen, Grant, Rodman, Harper, etc. (1 other HOF and we all know Rodman should be)
Malone won with Stockton
Iverson won when he had the 6thMOY, DPOY, and COY on his team.


So again, why does Kobe have to win with D league talent?


lol Bryant has to become the best player on his team.

Dude leads his team in points and assists, is just a tick behind Artest and Fisher for steals, is second among starters in FT%, but isn't the best on this team?

[Jodie Meeks]

just like the ball don't lie. why does kobe's ball seem to not go in as often in the finals? is it the pressure getting to him? i honestly don't know why he sucks so hard on the biggest stage.

Yeah...I think the pressure just takes him over...Offensively atleast..Against the Magic's num 1 D, he was ballin....But last year, he was missing everything, which was weird because he was coming off a series where he smashed the Suns...was hittin stupid crazy shots right in Grant's grill....Offensively, Kobe felt the pressure IMO....Glad he showed up on the defensive end, and grabbed 15rebs, along with dropping 10pts in the 4th being his clutch self, or we would have lost.

[JJ81]

Shep and Big Smoke,

did rosters and teammates hurt the chances for every other MVP winner in the history of the sport?

Magic had Kareem, Worthy, Scott, etc.
Bird had Mchale, Parrish, Johnson, etc.
Jordan had Pippen, Rodman, Grant, etc.


Why does Kobe have to be the only player in history to win an MVP with Smush, Kwame and Brian Cook for it to be valid?


All we've heard the last 5-6 years about MVP,

"top 4 seed"
"50 wins"
"best player on best team"


Now, none of that matters?

What is your criteria for MVP?

Exactly.

[ginobli2311]

didn't mj wilt under the pressure in the 86 playoffs?

what's your point?

wtf?

44 points 6 boards 6 assists on 51% shooting. are you serious?

28 points 6 boards 5 assists on 50% shooting. are you serious?

notice how kobe's numbers got worse in the playoffs and jordan's got better.

thanks for trying though.

[Jodie Meeks]

Brans? If that's you, what's up?

This thread is funny to me man. Most of the sh*t that these kiddies are arguing has been squashed years ago by you, I and other haters. We were ahead of our time; that's for sure. :oldlol:

:oldlol: Ofcource this is me...Who else was on the Jodie Wagon in 09'?


But yeah...We were def ahead of our time....Going against Prime Blitz and alot of times Prime Bortz was definitly good times....It's just fun to watch these little agenda filled debates...If only I kept transcripts of battles me, you, Bortz, Blitz, everyone esle on youtube and ISH had....Would def be some classics.:cheers:

[Ne 1]

wade owned them

how? he lost

do you not understand the difference between a 7 game NBA Finals series and a 5 game series of the first round of the playoffs? Not to mention Kobe plays in a structured offense and Wade plays in an un-structured offense.

Honestly I really don't see the hype for Wade's performances against the Celtics besides the game 4 46 point performance when he won.

[The Iron Fist]

i never said any team won with awful players. i simply said that other stars have won without uber elite supporting casts.

the spurs were supposed to be rebuilding in 03. i hardly think its fair to compare them to the lakers.

i'll ask another question. when has kobe over-achieved in his career with his team?
06 and 07. When most sportswriters had the Lakers pegged for 11th or 12th in the western conference and not even making the playoffs. You know why they didn't think the Lakers could do much then?

Because the team around him was absolute shit. When he did get them to the playoffs though and surpassed their preseason expectations,

thats when you heard people start mumbling about, "50 wins", "top seed", etc etc.

[Ne 1]

wtf?

44 points 6 boards 6 assists on 51% shooting. are you serious?

28 points 6 boards 5 assists on 50% shooting. are you serious?

notice how kobe's numbers got worse in the playoffs and jordan's got better.

thanks for trying though.

he choked in game 3, played like sh*t and allowed his team to get swept.

[necya]

nice band of trollers tonight !

have fun !

[ginobli2311]

06 and 07. When most sportswriters had the Lakers pegged for 11th or 12th in the western conference and not even making the playoffs. You know why they didn't think the Lakers could do much then?

Because the team around him was absolute shit. When he did get them to the playoffs though and surpassed their preseason expectations,

thats when you heard people start mumbling about, "50 wins", "top seed", etc etc.

fair enough.

i'll give you 07. but i hardly think playing at a worse clip in the playoffs and losing a series up 3-1 is over achieving. that series was there to be won and kobe could not dominate and get his team over the hump. would it have taken a legendary performance? yep. just like it took a legendary performance from wade that year to win it. just like it took a legendary performance from lebron to get to the finals in 07.

like i said. i'll give you 07. but not 06. that suns team was a perfect matchup for the lakers actually. odom was going crazy every game as well.

[The Iron Fist]

the problem with your assertion is that you assume kobe fans are saying what you are. they aren't. they are saying he's better than duncan/shaq/bird/hakeem.

if everyone said what you just said i would agree with them. but they don't.

they say "kobe is so much better than wade its laughable" ...they say "kobe is the best player of this generation by far"

they say "kobe is 2nd best all time"

so until then. i'll be right here speaking the truth.

So if Kobe wins the scoring title and MVP, which is what this thread is about,

how are you going to downplay it?

[Ne 1]

44 points 6 boards 6 assists on 51% shooting. are you serious?

Of course you only look at stats but if you watch that series Jordan missed a wide open 15 footer with 3 seconds in the first overtime, that most likely would have won game 2 .

After that close call, Boston put the clamps down on Jordan in game 3, holding him to 19 points (only 5 in the final 3 quarters) before he fouled out.

[ginobli2311]

how? he lost

do you not understand the difference between a 7 game NBA Finals series and a 5 game series of the first round of the playoffs? Not to mention Kobe plays in a structured offense and Wade plays in an un-structured offense.

Honestly I really don't see the hype for Wade's performances against the Celtics besides the game 4 46 point performance when he won.

so you are saying that the lakers wanted kobe do jack up terrible shots at a 40% clip, turn the ball over late, shoot 25% in the 4th qtrs combined for the series, and shoot 6-24 in game 7.

that was the plan. it was the structured offense that did kobe in? how about we talk about the fact that kobe's team is so much better that the celtics couldn't solely focus on kobe like they did wade.

always an excuse. i love it.

the lakers won in 7 because of how great kobe's team was. not because of how great kobe played. that is the thing kobe stans can't seem to grasp.

[The Iron Fist]

fair enough.

i'll give you 07. but i hardly think playing at a worse clip in the playoffs and losing a series up 3-1 is over achieving. that series was there to be won and kobe could not dominate and get his team over the hump. would it have taken a legendary performance? yep. just like it took a legendary performance from wade that year to win it. just like it took a legendary performance from lebron to get to the finals in 07.

like i said. i'll give you 07. but not 06. that suns team was a perfect matchup for the lakers actually. odom was going crazy every game as well.


You dumb lop,

making the playoffs in itself is over achieving when the majority of sportswriters, aka MVP voters,

didn't even have them making the damn playoffs.


Its not about the actual playoffs you dipshit, its about the fact that the writers had the Lakers ranked 11th or 12th, and the fact that the Lakers even made it to a playoff seeding is what constitutes overachieving.

Yes, I explained it twice in a row so your dumb ass could get it.

[catch24]

:oldlol: Ofcource this is me...Who else was on the Jodie Wagon in 09'?

But yeah...We were def ahead of our time....Going against Prime Blitz and alot of times Prime Bortz was definitly good times....It's just fun to watch these little agenda filled debates...If only I kept transcripts of battles me, you, Bortz, Blitz, everyone esle on youtube and ISH had....Would def be some classics.:cheers:

True, true. Won't lie, I thought dude was gonna be that next elite scorer too. :oldlol:

Those were the days bro. Constant debates about not just Kobe, but all time greats, the lames of the league and GOAT teams. Pah's page is a joke now though, lol. You got a pretty sick channel description; I'd just use that.

[ginobli2311]

Of course you only look at stats but if you watch that series Jordan missed a wide open 15 footer with 3 seconds in the first overtime, that most likely would have won game 2 .

After that close call, Boston put the clamps down on Jordan in game 3, holding him to 19 points (only 5 in the final 3 quarters) before he fouled out.

are you really comparing a championship celtics squad to the suns? seriously?

[RandyOrton]

Don't sleep on Dirk for the MVP.

[Ne 1]

the lakers won in 7 because of how great kobe's team was. not because of how great kobe played.

I actually agree. Similar to how the Bulls won the '96 Finals because of how great MJ's team was. Not because of how great MJ played.

During the Finals Jordan not only shot terribly from the field, he was absolute shit in the fourth quarters too (shot 33.3% in them, and only 15.4% in the fourth quarters of the three close games). In the two close wins of the series, Rodman averaged 11 offensive rebounds/game. He was setting records, and when MJ was shooting the team out of the game with bricks (rest of the team struggled shooting wise too), it was Rodman getting all those rebounds to give Bulls the extra possessions. Bulls as a team shot much lower than Sonics in that series...why do you think they still won? They got 34 more possessions from offensive rebounds (Rodman alone had 41!). MJ's scoring could have been replaced in that series, but Rodman's historic offensive rebounding? Not so much.

Rodman should have been the MVP of that Finals. The Bulls shot much worse from the field than the Sonics in the Finals but still won. How did that happen? Simple. The Bulls got more shot opportunities from offensive rebounds basically negating many of their misses. Rodman, by himself, secured and additional 41 possessions for the Bulls with his offensive rebounding including 2 games where he tied an NBA Finals record. That's like playing H-O-R-S-E and someone giving you multiple "do overs" after you've missed.

In the deciding Game 6 Jordan went 5-19 (26 FG%) while Rodman set a Finals record with 11 offensive rebounds. At the very least he was the MVP of the close out Game 6.

[ginobli2311]

You dumb lop,

making the playoffs in itself is over achieving when the majority of sportswriters, aka MVP voters,

didn't even have them making the damn playoffs.


Its not about the actual playoffs you dipshit, its about the fact that the writers had the Lakers ranked 11th or 12th, and the fact that the Lakers even made it to a playoff seeding is what constitutes overachieving.

Yes, I explained it twice in a row so your dumb ass could get it.

ok?

so he's overachieved twice in his career and those over-achievements resulted in 45 wins and first round losses.

so you will give wade the same amount of credit last year for making the playoffs with a terrible team as well. right?

[Jodie Meeks]

True, true. Won't lie, I thought dude was gonna be that next elite scorer too. :oldlol:

Those were the days bro. Constant debates about not just Kobe, but all time greats, the lames of the league and GOAT teams. Pah's page is a joke now though, lol. You got a pretty sick channel description; I'd just use that.

Yeah, I rarely go on youtube these days (besides from watching vids from links)....I checked Pah's page for the first time in a while...Lame.


And man, yeah, you may have thought Jodie was gonna be atleast good, elite type scorer (like a Monte), but I was making stupid threads about him being better than Kobe one day..:facepalm

[ginobli2311]

I actually agree. Similar to how the Bulls won the '96 Finals because of how great MJ's team was. Not because of how great MJ played.

During the Finals Jordan not only shot terribly from the field, he was absolute shit in the fourth quarters too (shot 33.3% in them, and only 15.4% in the fourth quarters of the three close games). In the two close wins of the series, Rodman averaged 11 offensive rebounds/game. He was setting records, and when MJ was shooting the team out of the game with bricks (rest of the team struggled shooting wise too), it was Rodman getting all those rebounds to give Bulls the extra possessions. Bulls as a team shot much lower than Sonics in that series...why do you think they still won? They got 34 more possessions from offensive rebounds (Rodman alone had 41!). MJ's scoring could have been replaced in that series, but Rodman's historic offensive rebounding? Not so much.

Rodman should have been the MVP of that Finals. The Bulls shot much worse from the field than the Sonics in the Finals but still won. How did that happen? Simple. The Bulls got more shot opportunities from offensive rebounds basically negating many of their misses. Rodman, by himself, secured and additional 41 possessions for the Bulls with his offensive rebounding including 2 games where he tied an NBA Finals record. That's like playing H-O-R-S-E and someone giving you multiple "do overs" after you've missed.

In the deciding Game 6 Jordan went 5-19 (26 FG%) while Rodman set a Finals record with 11 offensive rebounds. At the very least he was the MVP of the close out Game 6.


lets be real.

jordan played poorly in one game that the bulls won that series. game 6. and it was a 12 point win and the bulls controlled the game throughout. hardly a fair comparison to a game 7 do or die game in which your team is down double digits in the 2nd half.

LOL

and lets just ignore MJ's far superior defensive impact as well.

[Lebron23]

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/media/bulls/rose_090202.jpg

[catch24]

And man, yeah, you may have thought Jodie was gonna be atleast good, elite type scorer (like a Monte), but I was making stupid threads about him being better than Kobe one day..:facepalm

:roll:

Well I just checked the Meeks thread someone made... Six 3's in one quarter? That's pretty damn impressive. If Collins continues to start him, with a team like Philly, he can definitely make a name for himself. I hope he does well; those Tennessee games were he exploded for 40+ were ridiculous.

I'm out though man, cya around.

[Jodie Meeks]

:roll:

Well I just checked the Meeks thread someone made... Six 3's in one quarter? That's pretty damn impressive. If Collins continues to start him, with a team like Philly, he can definitely make a name for himself. I hope he does well; those Tennessee games were he exploded for 40+ were ridiculous.

I'm out though man, cya around.

:cheers: Ight bro take care.

[Ne 1]

MJ's far superior defensive impact as well.

First of all, I am going to clear this up: young Michael Jordan (1985-1993) was one of the greatest defensive guards in history. He is on the short list of greatest defensive guards, along with Walt Frazier, Sidney Moncrief, K.C. Jones, Kobe Bryant, Joe Dumars and Gary Payton. Jordan's only weakness was being posted up. Magic Johnson exploited this in games 1 and 2 of the 1991 Finals. After putting 3 fouls on Jordan in the first half of game 2, Phil Jackson opted to move Pippen over to guard Magic and put Jordan on James Worthy. Fortunately for Jordan and Jackson, Worthy was playing on a sprained ankle, which eliminated his dominance (he had 3 inches on Jordan, and he was the guy who dropped 42 points on Dennis Rodman in Game 7 of the 1988 finals).

Young Jordan was an exceptional ball defender and he was the very best player of his era at roaming the passing lanes.

There, it's out. He was a very good defender. I don't have any problems with his 1988 defensive player of the year award and his 6 first-team all defense awards up that point.

However, after that, he was a very overrated defender. He got old and lost a step and it showed. It happens to everybody, but Jordan's fans couldn't accept it. Let me give examples.

In 1995 and 96, Clyde Drexler and Anfernee Hardaway continued giving Jordan problems when they posted up on him. That is undertandable as they were bigger than Jordan. However, Jordan's lost a step on his quickness and in 1996, Pooh Richardson lit up Jordan...Pooh Richardson. Damon Stoudamire had his way with Jordan that year (Stoudamire's rookie season). While Stoudamire was very quick, Phil Jackson's answer to him spoke volumes about Jordan: Phil put Scottie Pippen on Stoudamire. Jordan was so slow that a 6'7" 225 lb FORWARD was Jackson's answer to a guard. Phil began opting to put Ron Harper on the other team's better offensive guard. Jordan fanatics claim this was "resting" Jordan for offense. No, this is called "rationalizing." Young Jordan guarded the other team's best guard AND lit up his opponents for 32+ PPG. Old Jordan simply could not guard the best guards any more (remember when he got caught in the switch with Allen Iverson the next year and how bad Iverson made him look?) .

What was truly sad was that Jordan continued making first team all-defense, but Ron Harper did not. Jordan wasn't even the best defensive guard on his own team any more. He didn't deserve those accolades.

[IllegalD]

lets be real.

jordan played poorly in one game that the bulls won that series. game 6. and it was a 12 point win and the bulls controlled the game throughout. hardly a fair comparison to a game 7 do or die game in which your team is down double digits in the 2nd half.

LOL

and lets just ignore MJ's far superior defensive impact as well.

N*gga, get off Kobe's nuts already, please.

[The Iron Fist]

ok?

so he's overachieved twice in his career and those over-achievements resulted in 45 wins and first round losses.

so you will give wade the same amount of credit last year for making the playoffs with a terrible team as well. right?


Is this thread about giving Wade credit, or is it about Kobe possibly winning the scoring title and MVP this year?

Act like a decent poster and at least try to stay on topic.

This thread is about Kobe possibly winning the scoring title and MVP this year.

This has nothing to do with Wade. If you want to talk about him, make that thread. As it is though, you're in another Kobe thread doing exactly what I said in the initial post,

downplaying Kobes achievements.

So I ask, again,

if Kobe wins the scoring title and MVP, how will his haters try to degrade it?

Go ahead, state your case now.

[raptorfan_dr07]

The Iron Fist is KAJ=GOAT. Their posting styles and arguments are too similar. For anyone who didn't know, KAJ=GOAT was one of the worst Kobe slurpers on this board, who as usual was banned, and as usual, has come back under yet another username. He always used to start threads bashing Steve Nash because of his two MVPS, while constantly crying and throwing fits abou Kobe only having one MVP.

[A.R.T]

who knows, allen iverson won mvp shooting 30%, maybe kobe can do it too!

[The Iron Fist]

The Iron Fist is KAJ=GOAT. Their posting styles and arguments are too similar. For anyone who didn't know, KAJ=GOAT was one of the worst Kobe slurpers on this board, who as usual was banned, and as usual, has come back under yet another username. He always used to start threads bashing Steve Nash because of his two MVPS, while constantly crying and throwing fits abou Kobe only having one MVP.

Yea and?

I was banned because the sissy mod could't take the facts I was putting out about Lebron. He got his feelings hurt because of the shit I said about Lebron.

Turned out, I was right about Lebron. Hes a frontrunner.

and I always started threads bashing Steve Nash?

Post all of them. I'd love to see them.

So what if I'm a Laker fan and feel Kobe got shafted in the process?

I have an opinion like everyone else. If you don't like it, you can take your ***** ass out of the thread. I don't go into threads I don't particularly like or do I complain to mods about posters whos opinions I agree with.

[ginobli2311]

Is this thread about giving Wade credit, or is it about Kobe possibly winning the scoring title and MVP this year?

Act like a decent poster and at least try to stay on topic.

This thread is about Kobe possibly winning the scoring title and MVP this year.

This has nothing to do with Wade. If you want to talk about him, make that thread. As it is though, you're in another Kobe thread doing exactly what I said in the initial post,

downplaying Kobes achievements.

So I ask, again,

if Kobe wins the scoring title and MVP, how will his haters try to degrade it?

Go ahead, state your case now.


it all depends on level of play. how am i downplaying anything? if kobe wins mvp playing at this level.....the nba is a huge joke. a huge joke.

if kobe picks up his play and starts to dominate and wins mvp and the scoring title i will give him props. just he deserves props for playing great in 08/09/10.

you seem to get really confused. just because i think wade/lebron have been better since 06 does not mean i don't think kobe is amazing. he is. i just think those two guys are slightly better. i'm not diminishing anything kobe has done. just bringing up the facts.

i've never seen kobe play at the level wade did in the 06 finals. i've never seen kobe play at the level lebron did in 09/10. i've never seen kobe play at the level of lebron in 07 against the pistons in game 5.

my honest opinion of kobe is that while he's a great player. an all time great player for that matter. i don't think he has the ability to dominate a playoff series against a quality opponent like some of the elite players of all time have. i think he's a great scorer that takes way too many bad shots per game. i think he struggles too much for an all time great against tough defenses. i don't think he's a great teammate on or off the court. he's a bit selfish in big games. he makes very poor basketball iq plays late in games. his "best closer in the game" tag is laughable. he's been awful based on those standards in the playoffs with the game on the line since 06. while his defense can be good when he tires. he routinely slacks on defense and does not provide much of an impact on that side of the ball. certainly not a big enough one to earn first team all defense over guys like manu/thabo.

i can think all of the above and still think he's one of the best ever. no player is perfect. dirk is my favorite player but kobe is much better. and i could talk about all of dirk's flaws. does that mean i'm a hater on dirk? nope. just a truth teller.

here is why most kobe stans are a joke. you tell me its laughable to put wade and kobe in the same sentence as players. that shows how biased and out of touch you guys really are. from 05 to present kobe has done nothing in terms of level of play and impact to prove he's better than wade.

the only thing. the one and only thing you can go to is playoff success....and that is entirely team strength dependent.

so lets clear this up. when ranking careers:

kobe is way higher than wade and its not close.

when ranking players:

kobe and wade are very very close and i actually prefer wade slightly.

[ginobli2311]

you guys seem to think that titles are all equal and level of play and impact don't matter.

if we are just ranking careers. kobe is probably top 5 already. how can anyone claim bird had a better career than kobe really. kobe has 5 rings and counting and is still playing at a high level in his 15th year. if kobe wins another title and fmvp this year his career blows bird/duncan/shaq/hakeem out of the water.

does that make him a better player though? in my opinion...of course not. you guys look to resume. i look to impact on the court and how good a player actually was. we just seem to have completely different criteria. for example...i heard someone asking if shaq wins another title where does that put him all time.

i don't get that. shaq is not an elite player anymore and is playing the role of a role player. this title should not count the same as every other title shaq has won. its all about level of play. now. if shaq were to dominate in the playoffs and play amazingly well and win...thats a different story.

but just some absurd accolades and rings and achievements race is not a good way to determine the best players of all time. its all far too dependent on circumstances. we've watched these guys play for over 12 years now. we know how good they are. kobe's level of play and impact is simply not as great as duncan or shaq. if kobe wins another title while not playing at their level does that make him better? or does that just mean he has a better team?

it just doesn't make sense. the best way to judge players is to take their best 12 years and compare that in terms of impact and level of play to everyone elses. that is the best way. is kobe better than duncan because duncan stayed in college for 4 years? how does that make sense. duncan was clearly ready to be a top 15 player in the league after his freshman year at wake.

you people are debating over careers. which is laughable because its pretty cut and dry. you compare numbers/accolades/titles and you rank accordingly without putting anything into context with no discussion of circumstances.

and that is fine. but it gives you an incomplete picture to say the least.

[Duncan21formvp]

He isn't winning league mvp this year. It would be a travesty if he did especially if his teammate is leading in Production as far as Win Shares and PER.

[SoCalMike]

why would you post this other than to troll people into pages of senseless arguments... you don't know what kobe or any other player will do during the season anymore than anyone else... seriously.
i called it... haha :banana:



:pimp:

[G-Funk]

Kobe homers are a funny bunch.

In the series against the Thunder it was Kobe's finger fracture (avulsion fracture, FYI) that supposedly caused him to have a bad offensive series, but then he coincidentally had a better series against the Jazz, and especially against the Suns...and both of those teams also happen to be weaker defensively. Then he struggled again against the Celtics, who also have good defense.

But a hell of a lot of Kobe homers still blame it on the finger.

:facepalm

I actually blame it on the knee. It was so bad it had to get drained, once t got drained he went crazy. But ur ignorant ass just had to open ur mouth without knowing what the *** happened, so now you just got owned.

[no pun intended]

FG% doesn't matter for scoring title.
Iverson knows that.

[The Iron Fist]

it all depends on level of play. how am i downplaying anything? if kobe wins mvp playing at this level.....the nba is a huge joke. a huge joke.

if kobe picks up his play and starts to dominate and wins mvp and the scoring title i will give him props. just he deserves props for playing great in 08/09/10.

you seem to get really confused. just because i think wade/lebron have been better since 06 does not mean i don't think kobe is amazing. he is. i just think those two guys are slightly better. i'm not diminishing anything kobe has done. just bringing up the facts.

i've never seen kobe play at the level wade did in the 06 finals. i've never seen kobe play at the level lebron did in 09/10. i've never seen kobe play at the level of lebron in 07 against the pistons in game 5.

my honest opinion of kobe is that while he's a great player. an all time great player for that matter. i don't think he has the ability to dominate a playoff series against a quality opponent like some of the elite players of all time have. i think he's a great scorer that takes way too many bad shots per game. i think he struggles too much for an all time great against tough defenses. i don't think he's a great teammate on or off the court. he's a bit selfish in big games. he makes very poor basketball iq plays late in games. his "best closer in the game" tag is laughable. he's been awful based on those standards in the playoffs with the game on the line since 06. while his defense can be good when he tires. he routinely slacks on defense and does not provide much of an impact on that side of the ball. certainly not a big enough one to earn first team all defense over guys like manu/thabo.

i can think all of the above and still think he's one of the best ever. no player is perfect. dirk is my favorite player but kobe is much better. and i could talk about all of dirk's flaws. does that mean i'm a hater on dirk? nope. just a truth teller.

here is why most kobe stans are a joke. you tell me its laughable to put wade and kobe in the same sentence as players. that shows how biased and out of touch you guys really are. from 05 to present kobe has done nothing in terms of level of play and impact to prove he's better than wade.

the only thing. the one and only thing you can go to is playoff success....and that is entirely team strength dependent.

so lets clear this up. when ranking careers:

kobe is way higher than wade and its not close.

when ranking players:

kobe and wade are very very close and i actually prefer wade slightly.

:roll:
27/5/5 is a joke now?



Just curious,

who else is doing it?

Or, is it such a joke because you hold Kobe to a higher standard?

If Kobe gets 27/5/5,

what does that say about the rest of the league?

[ginobli2311]

:roll:
27/5/5 is a joke now?



Just curious,

who else is doing it?

Or, is it such a joke because you hold Kobe to a higher standard?

If Kobe gets 27/5/5,

what does that say about the rest of the league?

his numbers are not a joke. i never said that. but other players are playing much better with less help and winning more so far.

look at dirk or dwight howard or deron williams. they are all playing better than kobe and their teams are playing better than the lakers even though those teams have far less talent.

its circumstances. why can't you use logic?

please explain to me how kobe deserves the nba mvp over dirk right now. please answer. waiting.....

[All Net]

you seem to get really confused. just because i think wade/lebron have been better since 06 does not mean i don't think kobe is amazing. he is. i just think those two guys are slightly better. i'm not diminishing anything kobe has done. just bringing up the facts.

I don't think thats unreasonable, I disagree that Wade has been better than Kobe since that time. As I think he has been 3rd for a while, that doesn't mean it's wrong to think Wade has been better all 3 have been real close.

[ginobli2311]

I don't think thats unreasonable, I disagree that Wade has been better than Kobe since that time. As I think he has been 3rd for a while, that doesn't mean it's wrong to think Wade has been better all 3 have been real close.

yep.

and i totally understand having kobe over wade. i just disagree. but to act like they aren't very very close either way since the 05 season is not accurate.

[All Net]

yep.

and i totally understand having kobe over wade. i just disagree. but to act like they aren't very very close either way since the 05 season is not accurate.

Exactly, all 3 are great in their own right. Only the last season or so people have seen Lebron as the main number 1 guy out of the 3. Which should happen given Lebron's age.

[ginobli2311]

still waiting iron fist.

tell me how and why kobe deserves mvp of the league so far over dirk. come on.

waiting....waiting....

[The Iron Fist]

his numbers are not a joke. i never said that. but other players are playing much better with less help and winning more so far.

look at dirk or dwight howard or deron williams. they are all playing better than kobe and their teams are playing better than the lakers even though those teams have far less talent.

its circumstances. why can't you use logic?

please explain to me how kobe deserves the nba mvp over dirk right now. please answer. waiting.....


Oh, now you want to talk circumstances?

Ok,

Kobe doesn't have his starting center, yet hes still leading his team to a .700 winning percentage, even though, despite the circumstances surrounding the play of Artest lately, etc.

27/5/5 = 25/8/2
Whos injured on Dallas and been playing like shit?

Why is Dirk, Deron or Howard deserving over Kobe?

All of those teams are basically within a game of eachother.


I personally think they're all dead even, considering the circumstances.

[ginobli2311]

Oh, now you want to talk circumstances?

Ok,

Kobe doesn't have his starting center, yet hes still leading his team to a .700 winning percentage, even though, despite the circumstances surrounding the play of Artest lately, etc.

27/5/5 = 25/8/2
Whos injured on Dallas and been playing like shit?

Why is Dirk, Deron or Howard deserving over Kobe?

All of those teams are basically within a game of eachother.


I personally think they're all dead even, considering the circumstances.

you ignore kobe's awful defense and poor efficiency.

dirk is shooting 57% efg and 63% true shooting. dirk's team is 16-4 and he has less help than kobe even without bynum

kobe is shooting 46% efg and 54% true shooting. kobe's team is 14-6 and pau gasol has played like a top 6 player in the game to date.

sorry. you fail so hard on this.

dirk is playing better with better numbers and his less talented team has a better record. LOL.

[YouCallILose]

Dirk is the MVP right now and noone else is even close. Dirk's shooting 55% from the field..god mode

also Kobe has no chance at the scoring title. Durant's shot has been way off and he's still averaging 28 a game

[The Iron Fist]

you ignore kobe's awful defense and poor efficiency.

dirk is shooting 57% efg and 63% true shooting. dirk's team is 16-4 and he has less help than kobe even without bynum

kobe is shooting 46% efg and 54% true shooting. kobe's team is 14-6 and pau gasol has played like a top 6 player in the game to date.

sorry. you fail so hard on this.

dirk is playing better with better numbers and his less talented team has a better record. LOL.


Well Nene Hilario is shooting 62.4% and his team is 13-6, and has a 7 game win streak! OWNED OWNED OWNED.

and, and,

Hilario is 100% from 3 point land.


and, and, he has more blocks and less turnovers than Dirk does!

FAIL FAIL

and, and,

The Nuggets are less talented!




Good golly **** guy,
get laid once in awhile.

[Dave3]

Well Nene Hilario is shooting 62.4% and his team is 13-6, and has a 7 game win streak! OWNED OWNED OWNED.

and, and,

Hilario is 100% from 3 point land.


and, and, he has more blocks and less turnovers than Dirk does!

FAIL FAIL

and, and,

The Nuggets are less talented!




Good golly **** guy,
get laid once in awhile.
I don't know why, but I'll play along. You said it yourself, Dirk's ppg/rpg/apg=Kobe's ppg/rpg/apg. The only thing left in stats then is efficiency, in which Dirk so far blows Kobe out of the water. Therefore, Dirk wins the overall stats argument.

Dirk wins the team argument because the record is better.

Dirk also wins the worse supporting cast argument because, well, no explanation really needed. The Mavericks are good, but they're not as good/deep as the Lakers.

Get it now? You're taking the shooting percentage argument out of context by comparing high volume players to low volume players. Shooting percentage will almost always favour the low volume guys. When both guys produce at equal volumes however, that argument becomes valid ;)

Oh, and you're comparing team records when one player is the 3rd best on his team, versus a player who is easily the best on his team....Why would you do that?

[ginobli2311]

I don't know why, but I'll play along. You said it yourself, Dirk's ppg/rpg/apg=Kobe's ppg/rpg/apg. The only thing left in stats then is efficiency, in which Dirk so far blows Kobe out of the water. Therefore, Dirk wins the overall stats argument.

Dirk wins the team argument because the record is better.

Dirk also wins the worse supporting cast argument because, well, no explanation really needed. The Mavericks are good, but they're not as good/deep as the Lakers.

Get it now? You're taking the shooting percentage argument out of context by comparing high volume players to low volume players. Shooting percentage will almost always favour the low volume guys. When both guys produce at equal volumes however, that argument becomes valid ;)

ding ding ding.

he's just proven what a moron he is once and for all. nobody with a brain would vote kobe for mvp over dirk so far this season. there is no argument. none. it makes no sense at all.

iron fist is a fuktard moron.

[ginobli2311]

bump.

owned moron. ****ing owned.

[Lebron23]

KAJ=GOAt pwned

[The Iron Fist]

I don't know why, but I'll play along. You said it yourself, Dirk's ppg/rpg/apg=Kobe's ppg/rpg/apg. The only thing left in stats then is efficiency, in which Dirk so far blows Kobe out of the water. Therefore, Dirk wins the overall stats argument.

Dirk wins the team argument because the record is better.

Dirk also wins the worse supporting cast argument because, well, no explanation really needed. The Mavericks are good, but they're not as good/deep as the Lakers.

Get it now? You're taking the shooting percentage argument out of context by comparing high volume players to low volume players. Shooting percentage will almost always favour the low volume guys. When both guys produce at equal volumes however, that argument becomes valid ;)

Oh, and you're comparing team records when one player is the 3rd best on his team, versus a player who is easily the best on his team....Why would you do that?


Sorry, but it doesn't get any more efficient than 100%.

We all know how important fg% is here, so I'm just playing by the rules.

Nene, MVP.

[Dave3]

Sorry, but it doesn't get any more efficient than 100%.

We all know how important fg% is here, so I'm just playing by the rules.

Nene, MVP.
Except that no one said, you're just putting that into people's mouths. Just because others say efficiency matters doesn't make it the only measurement. But just because it's not the only measurement, doesn't mean it doesn't matter either...

[The Iron Fist]

Except that no one said, you're just putting that into people's mouths. Just because others say efficiency matters doesn't make it the only measurement. But just because it's not the only measurement, doesn't mean it doesn't matter either...

But all we hear around here is that Kobe isn't great as anyone else because of his fg%.

[Dave3]

But all we hear around here is that Kobe isn't great as anyone else because of his fg%.
You're again putting words into people's mouths...and doing so, so that you can avoid actually addressing how Kobe is in any way more deserving than Dirk for MVP...

[Kurosawa0]

I think Dwight's getting the MVP this year. You can already see a movement towards him in the narrative.

[talamo]

Ok so that white girl from Utah has been posting in this thread. I'm sure of it

[Batz]

still waiting iron fist.

tell me how and why kobe deserves mvp of the league so far over dirk. come on.

waiting....waiting....
cuz hes black.

[IGOTGAME]

Kobe may actually win the MVP and scoring title this year...Kobe is gonna start playing better, he always does. But look where he is now:

26.6 ppg(2nd in NBA)
5.3 rpg
4.6 apg
33.0 mpg

He is gonna start hitting 30-40 point games more often and will prob end up averaging 28-29 points per game. He is prob going to lead the league in scoring, I also suspect his fg% will go up because he is actually taking better shots this year(just isnt hitting the YET). Would be interesting if Kobe wins this MVP even though he is past his prime.

I think

28.5 ppg
5.5 rpg
5.0 apg

46.5% fg

Lakers either get #1 overall record or #2 to Boston.

That imo may get Kobe his second MVP

[Droid101]

Scoring PPG

1. K. Durant OKC 27.3
2. K. Bryant LAL 26.7
K. Durant: 40 Minutes Per Game
K. Bryant: 33 Minutes per Game

The old man still has it!

[StillKill24]

:roll:

[Knoe Itawl]

Kobe may actually win the MVP and scoring title this year...Kobe is gonna start playing better, he always does. But look where he is now:

26.6 ppg(2nd in NBA)
5.3 rpg
4.6 apg
33.0 mpg

He is gonna start hitting 30-40 point games more often and will prob end up averaging 28-29 points per game. He is prob going to lead the league in scoring, I also suspect his fg% will go up because he is actually taking better shots this year(just isnt hitting the YET). Would be interesting if Kobe wins this MVP even though he is past his prime.

I think

28.5 ppg
5.5 rpg
5.0 apg

46.5% fg

Lakers either get #1 overall record or #2 to Boston.

That imo may get Kobe his second MVP

:oldlol: