ISH How good was Orlando Tracy McGrady?

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

http://www.nba.com/magic/photos/tracy_600_032410.jpg

Career Numbers with the Orlando Magic: 27.7ppg 6.9rpg 5.2apg 0.445fg% 0.361(3point%)


Just finished watching vintage prime Tracy McGrady mix on Youtube....... ISH please educate me on the great Tracy Mcgrady.

First Year with Orlando Magic 21 years old: 26.8ppg 7.5rpg 4.6apg .45fg% (finished 6th in MVP voting)
Second Year with Orlando Magic 22 years old: 25.6ppg 7.9rpg 5.3apg .45fg% (finished 4th in MVP voting)
Third Season with the Orlando Magic 23 years old: 32.1ppg 6.5rpg 5.5apg .45fg% (finished 4th in MVP voting)
Forth Season with the Orlando Magic 24 years old: 28ppg 6.0rpg 5.5apg .41fg%

[magnax1]

His 03 season would rank among the best of all time. Was in the top 4 players in the league, and was a real superstar.

["Jesus"]

Prime T-Mac is my fav. I remember immediately going to the store to pick up some junior sized T-Mac 2's after I saw the commercial. :lol

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

His 03 season would rank among the best of all time. Was in the top 4 players in the league, and was a real superstar.

yeah i finished watching some YouTube mix on him and he look unguardable..........like Lebron type unguardable. His skills stood out in those videos:bowdown:

[Real Men Wear Green]

He was the best scorer in the game at his peak. Unfortunately he's never been on the right side of a playoff victory but he still had some great postseason performances. Doc should have had Ainge give him Wafer's spot out of respect for what he did back then...although McGrady may not have accepted a non-guaranteed contract.

[D.J.]

He had an argument for best player in the league at his peak. A 6'8" player with ridiculous length, could play three positions(two of them at a high level), could defend opposing PG's with his agility and opposing 2s and 3 with his length, was untouchable if his jump shot was going in, and a good three point shooter.

IMO, what seperates a prime T-Mac from Kobe is that T-Mac was not quite as explosive as a scorer, but he was more consistent and made smarter decisions. Kobe is more likely to go off for 45-50, but he also takes shots he has no business taking.

[magnax1]

yeah i finished watching some YouTube mix on him and he look unguardable..........like Lebron type unguardable. His skills stood out in those videos:bowdown:
Yeah, he could score in every way imaginable, could rebound, could pass, and was a really under rated defender. (until he got to Houston and stopped playing D)

IMO, what seperates a prime T-Mac from Kobe is that T-Mac was not quite as explosive as a scorer, but he was more consistent and made smarter decisions. Kobe is more likely to go off for 45-50, but he also takes shots he has no business taking. During Tracy's peak season, his eFG% was over 50%. Kobe never cracked 50%.
Very true.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Yeah, he could score in every way imaginable, could rebound, could pass, and was a really under rated defender. (until he got to Houston and stopped playing D)

damn, so was he like 2009-2010 Kevin Durant with play making ability and better defense?:confusedshrug:

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

He was the best scorer in the game at his peak. Unfortunately he's never been on the right side of a playoff victory but he still had some great postseason performances. Doc should have had Ainge give him Wafer's spot out of respect for what he did back then...although McGrady may not have accepted a non-guaranteed contract.

Oh yeah i forgot Doc was Tmac coach back in the day. Its not really his fault IMO that he didnt make it past the first round in Orlando, his supporting cast was weak.

[1987_Lakers]

'03 T-Mac was pretty much '09 Wade with a better jump shot, but not as good a slasher & defender.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Prime T-Mac is my fav. I remember immediately going to the store to pick up some junior sized T-Mac 2's after I saw the commercial. :lol

http://static.userland.com/images/ballin/TMac.jpg
:applause: :applause: those look sick!

[D.J.]

What's even more impressive is despite T-Mac having to dominate the ball, he always averaged under three turnovers a game in Orlando. For someone that dominated the ball so much, that is a very good number.

[thejumpa]

The definition of gifted. Tall, athletic, and could shoot lights out. Due to his size advantage and elevation on jumpers, he would just shoot over everyone. Very underrated passer and playmaker. He was essentially a point forward. People used to say he made the game look too easy because he would just score at will and always look relaxed. I think it because of his eye:oldlol:

It sucks that he got injured because I have no doubt in my mind we would be talking about him being a top 20 possibly 10 player. Save me the BS, he was that good. I remember when he first went down with back spasms back in 05 or whatever and thinking that he would fine and come back in a couple games. 5 years later and people talk about him like he's a piece of shit. It's kind of sad to think about it.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

'03 T-Mac was pretty much '09 Wade with a better jump shot, but not as good a slasher & defender.

not from what i heard dude.

[Batz]

damn, so was he like 2009-2010 Kevin Durant with play making ability and better defense?:confusedshrug:
He was nothing like durant.

Think of late 3peat Kobe+better rebounding+jumps higher+less turnover prone+doesn't take stupid 30 footers

Try not to *** in the thinking process.

[magnax1]

damn, so was he like 2009-2010 Kevin Durant with play making ability and better defense?:confusedshrug:
Pretty much. He had a better pull up jumper, probably the best pull up jumper ever. His biggest problem was that he settled for jumpers to much, but I think KD and TMac is a pretty fair comparison as far as scoring goes especially since they have extremely similar builds. TMac was more athletic though, and probably got to the rim more.

[L.Kizzle]

Very good.

Grant Hill is healthy and you never know ...

[Dave3]

'03 T-Mac was pretty much '09 Wade with a better jump shot, but not as good a slasher & defender.
So what's similar? One is shorter/stronger and a better defender/slasher with a good midrange shot. The other is longer and taller, with insane shooting ability over people from both distance and midrange. Wade probably finished with a lot of dunks that year compared to Tmac, who relied mostly on finger rolls or acrobatic layups. Also, Wade went to the line like 10/game in 09, whereas Tmac I think was like 6/game or something - much lower.

[D.J.]

The definition of gifted. Tall, athletic, and could shoot lights out. Due to his size advantage and elevation on jumpers, he would just shoot over everyone. Very underrated passer and playmaker. He was essentially a point forward. People used to say he made the game look too easy because he would just score at will and always look relaxed. I think it because of his eye:oldlol:

It sucks that he got injured because I have no doubt in my mind we would be talking about him being a top 20 possibly 10 player. Save me the BS, he was that good. I remember when he first went down with back spasms back in 05 or whatever and thinking that he would fine and come back in a couple games. 5 years later and people talk about him like he's a piece of shit. It's kind of sad to think about it.


He really did score at will when he wanted. What impressed me the most was his decision making. For someone that averaged 25-30 PPG, he didn't make many mistakes.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

He had an argument for best player in the league at his peak. A 6'8" player with ridiculous length, could play three positions(two of them at a high level), could defend opposing PG's with his agility and opposing 2s and 3 with his length, was untouchable if his jump shot was going in, and a good three point shooter.

IMO, what seperates a prime T-Mac from Kobe is that T-Mac was not quite as explosive as a scorer, but he was more consistent and made smarter decisions. Kobe is more likely to go off for 45-50, but he also takes shots he has no business taking.

:applause: great info.

[Batz]

Very good.

Grant Hill is healthy and you never know ...
There's only one ball, sir.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

What's even more impressive is despite T-Mac having to dominate the ball, he always averaged under three turnovers a game in Orlando. For someone that dominated the ball so much, that is a very good number.


yeah that also stood out. Wade and Bron to ball dominate superstars always average 3.0 turnover a game

[1987_Lakers]

not from what i heard dude.

Wade is one of the greatest slashers the league has ever seen, T-Mac was good defensively, but Wade did average 2 spg+, 1 bpg+, he made huge defensive plays in the clutch that year, & he did make the All-Defensive Team.

[New York Knicks]

T-Mac had a Top 5 peak for this decade. Probably have him at around 3rd or 4th behind Shaq, Duncan, and LeBron in terms of peak.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

The definition of gifted. Tall, athletic, and could shoot lights out. Due to his size advantage and elevation on jumpers, he would just shoot over everyone. Very underrated passer and playmaker. He was essentially a point forward. People used to say he made the game look too easy because he would just score at will and always look relaxed. I think it because of his eye:oldlol:

It sucks that he got injured because I have no doubt in my mind we would be talking about him being a top 20 possibly 10 player. Save me the BS, he was that good. I remember when he first went down with back spasms back in 05 or whatever and thinking that he would fine and come back in a couple games. 5 years later and people talk about him like he's a piece of shit. It's kind of sad to think about it.

alright serious question was Prime Tmac @ Kobe/Wade/Bron level?

[New York Knicks]

alright serious question was Prime Tmac @ Kobe/Wade/Bron level?
Definitely. He might even be above them if you just strictly compare their best single seasons. Or maybe slightly below LeBron's best season.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

He was nothing like durant.

Think of late 3peat Kobe+better rebounding+jumps higher+less turnover prone+doesn't take stupid 30 footers

Try not to *** in the thinking process.

I bet you wished he was still playing for the Raptors


too late:(

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Pretty much. He had a better pull up jumper, probably the best pull up jumper ever. His biggest problem was that he settled for jumpers to much, but I think KD and TMac is a pretty fair comparison as far as scoring goes especially since they have extremely similar builds. TMac was more athletic though, and probably got to the rim more.

alright thanks dude:applause: :applause:

[thejumpa]

He really did score at will when he wanted. What impressed me the most was his decision making. For someone that averaged 25-30 PPG, he didn't make many mistakes.

Yup. If people watch some of the Orlando games(Houston too-he played pretty good there), they will see that he was an extremely smart player.

As for comparisons, the only thing that he and Durant share are size advantages. TMac is more athletic, better ballhandler, plays better defense, and overall a smarter basketball player IMO.

Durants size and jumper+Wades ball handling/playmaking=Orlando TMac

[Batz]

alright serious question was Prime Tmac @ Kobe/Wade/Bron level?
In terms of peak

1. Lebron
2. McGrady
3. Kobe
4. Wade

[ShaqAttack3234]

One of my favorite players. Very athletic, great length for a swingman, excellent ball handling skills, he had pretty incredible range and he could catch and shoot mid-range and long 3s or shoot either shot off the dribble. He could also exploit mismatches in the post, though he was primarily a perimeter player.

He actually already had back problems in Orlando, but once the injuries really started to pile up, his jumper got flatter and he lost good amount of touch on it.

Tracy was a volume scorer who could get his shot at basically anytime and he wasn't afraid to keep shooting, and when he went off, it was a sight to see.

He was also a great passer and a good rebounder for his position and he had all-defensive team ability, but he often didn't fully commit to that end, however, perimeter players who carry weak teams often don't because they have to do so much at the offensive end.

I can't remember a superstar carrying a weaker cast to the playoffs than T-Mac in 2003, maybe Wade in 2009.

Here's a T-Mac game I uploaded from his peak year. He went off for 46 points. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN9DLfePUM4

Ill upload the game where he had 52 points in 3 quarters in 2003 as well and his 50 point game in 2002 soon, maybe those 40+ games from the '03 playoffs as well. I'm pretty sure another youtube user uploaded his entire 62 point game a while back, too.

McGrady's first season in Houston(2005) was also great. Probably his 3rd best season after 2003 and 2002, but after that, injuries really got to him.

[thejumpa]

alright serious question was Prime Tmac @ Kobe/Wade/Bron level?

Yes. As far as pure talent and skill, he was just as good as all of those guys. There really was nothing that they can do that he couldn't.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20NBA%20Magazine%20n%20Media/Slam%20Magazine/td_t-mac_kg.jpg:bowdown: :bowdown: :applause:

[D.J.]

alright serious question was Prime Tmac @ Kobe/Wade/Bron level?


Putting team success aside, we'll look at each player's peak season:


McGrady- 32/6+/5+/1.7 and 45.7/38.6/79.3

Wade- 30/7+/5/2/1+ and 49.1/31.7/76.5

LeBron- 29+/8+/7/1+/1 and 50.3/33.3/76.7

Kobe- 35/5/4+/1.8 and 45.0/34.7/85.0


I'd say he compares

["Jesus"]

In terms of peak

1. Lebron
2. McGrady
3. Kobe
4. Wade

Pretty much.

People forget that T-Mac came into the league known as a defensive stopper. If he wanted to lock down particular players, he did. :bowdown:

Not to mention, he had pretty nice ups: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZljhMFWUFAo

[Batz]

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20NBA%20Magazine%20n%20Media/Slam%20Magazine/td_t-mac_kg.jpg:bowdown: :bowdown: :applause:
Yeah, he coulda made adidas just a bit more interesting.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Very good.

Grant Hill is healthy and you never know ...
:lol :cheers:

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Did TRACY McGrady have a good work ethic?

[D.J.]

One of my favorite players. Very athletic, great length for a swingman, excellent ball handling skills, he had pretty incredible range and he could catch and shoot mid-range and long 3s or shoot either shot off the dribble. He could also exploit mismatches in the post, though he was primarily a perimeter player.

He actually already had back problems in Orlando, but once the injuries really started to pile up, his jumper got flatter and he lost good amount of touch on it.

Tracy was a volume scorer who could get his shot at basically anytime and he wasn't afraid to keep shooting, and when he went off, it was a sight to see.

He was also a great passer and a good rebounder for his position and he had all-defensive team ability, but he often didn't fully commit to that end, however, perimeter players who carry weak teams often don't because they have to do so much at the offensive end.

I can't remember a superstar carrying a weaker cast to the playoffs than T-Mac in 2003, maybe Wade in 2009.

Here's a T-Mac game I uploaded from his peak year. He went off for 46 points. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN9DLfePUM4

Ill upload the game where he had 52 points in 3 quarters in 2003 as well and his 50 point game in 2002 soon, maybe those 40+ games from the '03 playoffs as well. I'm pretty sure another youtube user uploaded his entire 62 point game a while back, too.

McGrady's first season in Houston(2005) was also great. Probably his 3rd best season after 2003 and 2002, but after that, injuries really got to him.


I agree with everything except for the part about Tracy being a volume scorer. Volume scorers score high amounts of points on low percentages. Tracy regularly shot 45-46% in Orlando. A volume scorer would be like an Allen Iverson or Jamal Mashburn.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

So what's similar? One is shorter/stronger and a better defender/slasher with a good midrange shot. The other is longer and taller, with insane shooting ability over people from both distance and midrange. Wade probably finished with a lot of dunks that year compared to Tmac, who relied mostly on finger rolls or acrobatic layups. Also, Wade went to the line like 10/game in 09, whereas Tmac I think was like 6/game or something - much lower.
ownage!!! :rockon:

[Batz]

Did TRACY McGrady have a good work ethic?
There's a reason why people call him the big sleep in Toronto.

[D.J.]

And McGrady got to the line just shy of 10 times a game in 2002-03. The more he dominated, the more he got to the line. At 25 PPG, he was getting to the line 7-7.5 times a game.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Yup. If people watch some of the Orlando games(Houston too-he played pretty good there), they will see that he was an extremely smart player.

As for comparisons, the only thing that he and Durant share are size advantages. TMac is more athletic, better ballhandler, plays better defense, and overall a smarter basketball player IMO.

Durants size and jumper+Wades ball handling/playmaking=Orlando TMac

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: WOW!!!

Why arent they players like that nowadays:cry: :cry: Beasley get to the Gym!!!

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

In terms of peak

1. Lebron
2. McGrady
3. Kobe
4. Wade

damn i remember Kobe's, Wade's, and Bron's best season and if T-mac had a better season than Wade and Kobe that is crazy:applause: .

[magnax1]

Did TRACY McGrady have a good work ethic?
You have to have a good work ethic to become that great of a player. I think people say he wasn't a winner mostly because after 05 he just wasn't good enough to play like the superstar people expected him to be in the playoffs. Other then that it's really speculation, it's not like anybody on ISH actually knows TMac and what kind of person he was.

[BlackJordan]

In terms of peak

1. Lebron
2. McGrady
3. Kobe
4. Wade


1. Kobe
2. McGrady
3. LeBron
4. Wade

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

One of my favorite players. Very athletic, great length for a swingman, excellent ball handling skills, he had pretty incredible range and he could catch and shoot mid-range and long 3s or shoot either shot off the dribble. He could also exploit mismatches in the post, though he was primarily a perimeter player.

He actually already had back problems in Orlando, but once the injuries really started to pile up, his jumper got flatter and he lost good amount of touch on it.

Tracy was a volume scorer who could get his shot at basically anytime and he wasn't afraid to keep shooting, and when he went off, it was a sight to see.

He was also a great passer and a good rebounder for his position and he had all-defensive team ability, but he often didn't fully commit to that end, however, perimeter players who carry weak teams often don't because they have to do so much at the offensive end.

I can't remember a superstar carrying a weaker cast to the playoffs than T-Mac in 2003, maybe Wade in 2009.

Here's a T-Mac game I uploaded from his peak year. He went off for 46 points. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN9DLfePUM4

Ill upload the game where he had 52 points in 3 quarters in 2003 as well and his 50 point game in 2002 soon, maybe those 40+ games from the '03 playoffs as well. I'm pretty sure another youtube user uploaded his entire 62 point game a while back, too.

McGrady's first season in Houston(2005) was also great. Probably his 3rd best season after 2003 and 2002, but after that, injuries really got to him.

Best post from the best poster in on the ISH:bowdown: :bowdown:

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Yes. As far as pure talent and skill, he was just as good as all of those guys. There really was nothing that they can do that he couldn't.
:cheers: :cheers:

[thejumpa]

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: WOW!!!

Why arent they players like that nowadays:cry: :cry: Beasley get to the Gym!!!

Yeah, that would be nuts if Beasley focused on his game and lived in the gym for a while. He has the natural talent and size and could really be something special.

As far as his work ethic goes, he got criticized for that a lot throughout his career....and he was still that good. He relied heavily on his natural talent and it got him a bad rep.

[Shep]

how good was orlando mcgrady? not as good as houston mcgrady in '05.

and lol @ mcgrady having a better peak than bryant and wade.

[catch24]

Unreal good. People were calling him the leagues best scorer from 02-04/05.

I agree with Jumpa as well. Had it not been for injuries, just based on individual seasons, he was bound for a top 20-15 ranking IMO.

[thejumpa]

Come to think of it, I was going to get the new Derrick Rose shoes but this thread has made me think otherwise. I'm definitely gonna go pick up some old school TMacs....black and blue:rockon:

appreciate it OP

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Putting team success aside, we'll look at each player's peak season:


McGrady- 32/6+/5+/1.7 and 45.7/38.6/79.3

Wade- 30/7+/5/2/1+ and 49.1/31.7/76.5

LeBron- 29+/8+/7/1+/1 and 50.3/33.3/76.7

Kobe- 35/5/4+/1.8 and 45.0/34.7/85.0


I'd say he compares

yeah by looking @ those numbers i'd say the same thing

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Pretty much.

People forget that T-Mac came into the league known as a defensive stopper. If he wanted to lock down particular players, he did. :bowdown:

Not to mention, he had pretty nice ups: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZljhMFWUFAo

nice video. Tmac built looks a lot like Rudy Gay

[D.J.]

Just a random fact:


Top PER seasons
4)LeBron- 31.67
9)LeBron- 31.10
13)Wade- 30.36
14)Tracy- 30.27




48)Kobe- 27.97
97)Kobe- 26.17

[catch24]

Thread has me wanting to upload T-Mac games now. :oldlol:

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Thread has me wanting to upload T-Mac games now. :oldlol:

pleeze do so

i will repp you ass:lol

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Just a random fact:


Top PER seasons
4)LeBron- 31.67
9)LeBron- 31.10
13)Wade- 30.36
14)Tracy- 30.27




48)Kobe- 27.97
97)Kobe- 26.17

nice find.

[shootingcomets]

while tmac was a pretty damn good scorer, i argue that he kinda went downhill ever since he blew that 3-1 lead over detroit in the first round of playoffs

sure he did have some sucess in houston but he never did that great during playoffs, the only time he got past first round was when he was injured

i thought tmac was going to be one of the all time greats but injuries/drive etcetc derailed his career

and yea still wear my Tmac2 kicks

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Come to think of it, I was going to get the new Derrick Rose shoes but this thread has made me think otherwise. I'm definitely gonna go pick up some old school TMacs....black and blue:rockon:

appreciate it OP

http://images.sneakernews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/adiZero_Rose_black_university_red__1_1.jpg

[magnax1]

Somebody needs to upload some of TMac's vs Detroit playoff games. There were a couple games where he went off against them and they were a really great defense.

[Batz]

Just a random fact:


Top PER seasons
4)LeBron- 31.67
9)LeBron- 31.10
13)Wade- 30.36
14)Tracy- 30.27




48)Kobe- 27.97
97)Kobe- 26.17
PER ****** alert. :eek:

[D.J.]

Game 1 against Detroit in '03- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTqK7Z8fejQ

Game 6 against Detroit in '03- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e99ATfxkTbY

2002 ASG- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anLelpV-tAc

Tracy vs Kobe(3-18-01)- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69oNRWPnSFg

Tracy vs Suns(2-20-01)- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBBFSY199pY

[Dave3]

Somebody needs to upload some of TMac's vs Detroit playoff games. There were a couple games where he went off against them and they were a really great defense.
That dunk on Okur=:applause:
It was so disappointing though when they gave up that series after playing so well the first 4 games.

[Dave3]

Game 1 against Detroit in '03- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTqK7Z8fejQ

Game 6 against Detroit in '03- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e99ATfxkTbY

2002 ASG- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anLelpV-tAc

Tracy vs Kobe(3-18-01)- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69oNRWPnSFg

Tracy vs Suns(2-20-01)- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBBFSY199pY
Much obliged. Repped.(NVM, give me 24 hours lol)

[L.Kizzle]

There's only one ball, sir.
Grant Hill is not a ball stopper, good sir.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Game 1 against Detroit in '03- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTqK7Z8fejQ

Game 6 against Detroit in '03- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e99ATfxkTbY

2002 ASG- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anLelpV-tAc

Tracy vs Kobe(3-18-01)- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69oNRWPnSFg

Tracy vs Suns(2-20-01)- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBBFSY199pY

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[catch24]

Game 1 against Detroit in '03- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTqK7Z8fejQ

Game 6 against Detroit in '03- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e99ATfxkTbY

2002 ASG- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anLelpV-tAc

Tracy vs Kobe(3-18-01)- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69oNRWPnSFg

Tracy vs Suns(2-20-01)- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBBFSY199pY

Nice, thanks and repped. I think I'll up one of his 50pt games and post it here later.

[L.Kizzle]

while tmac was a pretty damn good scorer, i argue that he kinda went downhill ever since he blew that 3-1 lead over detroit in the first round of playoffs

sure he did have some sucess in houston but he never did that great during playoffs, the only time he got past first round was when he was injured

i thought tmac was going to be one of the all time greats but injuries/drive etcetc derailed his career

and yea still wear my Tmac2 kicks
He, that team, was a 8th seed, they shouldn't even have been up 3-1. Shows how great T-Mac was.

[D.J.]

He, that team, was a 8th seed, they shouldn't even have been up 3-1. Shows how great T-Mac was.


That was also the first year the first round was seven games. Orlando should have been one and done. Once it went past five games, Detroit deserved to lose.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

He, that team, was a 8th seed, they shouldn't even have been up 3-1. Shows how great T-Mac was.
:lol :lol

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Tracy McGrady in 2000-2001 NBA season had 5 40+point games and 21 30+point games

[L.Kizzle]

That was also the first year the first round was seven games. Orlando should have been one and done. Once it went past five games, Detroit deserved to lose.
That just shows Mac bad luck, they move to 7 game series the season Mac goes up 3-1

:oldlol:

[magnax1]

That dunk on Okur=:applause:
It was so disappointing though when they gave up that series after playing so well the first 4 games.
It's insane that they even wen't up 3-1, and TMac only had maybe one disappointing game. Even with the 3-1 lead I wasn't terribly surprised Orlando lost.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

That just shows Mac bad luck, they move to 7 game series the season Mac goes up 3-1

:oldlol:

really sucks for McGrady:mad:

[Dave3]

It's insane that they even wen't up 3-1, and TMac only had maybe one disappointing game. Even with the 3-1 lead I wasn't terribly surprised Orlando lost.
I got my hopes up a lot because I was cheering for Orlando, so I was exuberant when they took a lead. He actually played average in the last 4 games. Even in game 4 when they won he didn't have an excellent game.

[L.Kizzle]

I got my hopes up a lot because I was cheering for Orlando, so I was exuberant when they took a lead. He actually played average in the last 4 games. Even in game 4 when they won he didn't have an excellent game.
Dude, I remember that series, I was going crazy those first few games.

McGrady was killen them boys. He two 40+ point games, both in Detroit I think. Even the games they were losing, he was still gettin 30 plus, besides game 7 in Detroit I remember he had only 21 and the magic got blown the hell out.

Tough break T-Mac.

[blondie]

empty stats who choked in the big games, just like Houston Mcgrady

[ShaqAttack3234]

A few things, regarding T-Mac vs Durant, well, as far as scorers.

Durant is a few inches taller and has an even more freakish wingspan, but T-Mac was considerably more athletic and had superior ball handling skills. T-Mac also has the ability to hit a lot tougher shots than KD.

T-Mac was the best perimeter player in 2003, IMO and the best scorer in 2003 and 2004.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

A few things, regarding T-Mac vs Durant, well, as far as scorers.

Durant is a few inches taller and has an even more freakish wingspan, but T-Mac was considerably more athletic and had superior ball handling skills. T-Mac also has the ability to hit a lot tougher shots than KD.

T-Mac was the best perimeter player in 2003, IMO and the best scorer in 2003 and 2004.


Is it just me or does Rudy Gay and Tmac have similar built?

[L.Kizzle]

Is it just me or does Rudy Gay and Tmac have similar built?
That's all they have that's similar.

[Dave3]

Is it just me or does Rudy Gay and Tmac have similar built?
You're not wrong. He doesn't have the ball handling and playmaking, but offensively they're similar. Tmac shot in traffic like no other though. Defenders didn't matter to him almost.

[Batz]

Is it just me or does Rudy Gay and Tmac have similar built?
As in physically? Gay is longer and heavier than Prime McGrady.

If you're comparing them, McGrady has far superior ball handling skills, passing ability, better rebounder even and was just an all around better scorer.

[thejumpa]

Is it just me or does Rudy Gay and Tmac have similar built?

Yeah KD is a bad comparison. Rudy Gay is much better. Both about 6'8, long arms, athletic, etc....

[Dave3]

That's all they have that's similar.
Naw, they're both long and athletic, with decent rebounding and a strong jumper. Tmac has defensive/ball-handling advantages, but they're similar athletically in addition to offensive ability.

[thejumpa]

As in physically? Gay is longer and heavier than Prime McGrady.

If you're comparing them, McGrady has far superior ball handling skills, passing ability, better rebounder even and was just an all around better scorer.

Physically Gay and TMac are almost identical. If they stood next to each other, you wouldn't be able to tell who's longer/taller/heavier.

But yeah, basketball skill-wise, TMac blows Gay out of the water in just about every category.

[lilojmayo]

OP, how old are you that you don't remember Tracy McGrady?
T-Mac was still basically a 25 point per game guy as late as 2007. That was only 3 years ago. In 2008, 2 years ago he averaged like 28 points 8 rebs 7 assists in that 1st round series against Utah.

Prime Tracy McGrady was my favorite player in the league, he was right there with Kobe in his prime in terms of skillset from 2001-2003 i say. His length was incredible and athleticism was also , you just couldn't really guard him. His off the dribble jump shot it what made him really unstoppable.

However, you guys aren't telling both sides to the OP the way he has been talk about in this thread you would think he was better than Jordan or even Kobe. Too many times in his career even in his Orlando days, he would bail teams out because all he wanted to do was shot jack 3 point shots I am talking 10+ 3s taken a game constantly, some days they would go in some they won't.

He wasn't really efficient alot of the times in his scoring even again his Orlando days. He had a ton of games where he would jack up 30 FGAs and only make 12 or so of them and not really get to the line that since he was to business jacking up 3s, and contested jumpers. Score about 35-40 points, but ended up hurting the team more than helped him. A game that comes to my mine right away OP, is the Christmas game against the Pacers it was 2001 i think. All he did that game was jack up shots at a low percentage. He had like 40+ points, but his team lost by like 25 or so.

He had all the tools, to be an all time great defender, but never really cared that much about stopping the other star player from scoring.

In terms of pure basketball skills like post game, tough shots, range, ball handling, athleticism, size he was right up there with kobe. He had a better post game than kobe. But if how good you were as an NBA player was all about skill Rasheed Wallace would be an all time great. T-Mac just never had the drive to be an icon like Kobe, MJ, or even LeBron. His injuries didn't help either because he wasn't really that efficient when he had his athleticism.

As for today's NBA there is no player like prime Tmac. Rudy Gay is probably the closest thing, and that's not saying much Rudy doesn't have Tmac shot, range, or playmaking ability, but nevertheless he is the closest thing. This is a very weak era for perimeter players might I add. Most the good perimeter players are point guards or combo guards basically.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

OP, how old are you that you don't remember Tracy McGrady?
T-Mac was still basically a 25 point per game guy as late as 2007. That was only 3 years ago. In 2008, 2 years ago he averaged like 28 points 8 rebs 7 assists in that 1st round series against Utah.

Prime Tracy McGrady was my favorite player in the league, he was right there with Kobe in his prime in terms of skillset from 2001-2003 i say. His length was incredible and athleticism was also , you just couldn't really guard him. His off the dribble jump shot it what made him really unstoppable.

However, you guys aren't telling both sides to the OP the way he has been talk about in this thread you would think he was better than Jordan or even Kobe. Too many times in his career even in his Orlando days, he would bail teams out because all he wanted to do was shot jack 3 point shots I am talking 10+ 3s taken a game constantly, some days they would go in some they won't.

He wasn't really efficient alot of the times in his scoring even again his Orlando days. He had a ton of games where he would jack up 30 FGAs and only make 12 or so of them and not really get to the line that since he was to business jacking up 3s, and contested jumpers. Score about 35-40 points, but ended up hurting the team more than helped him. A game that comes to my mine right away OP, is the Christmas game against the Pacers it was 2001 i think. All he did that game was jack up shots at a low percentage. He had like 40+ points, but his team lost by like 25 or so.

He had all the tools, to be an all time great defender, but never really cared that much about stopping the other star player from scoring.

In terms of pure basketball skills like post game, tough shots, range, ball handling, athleticism, size he was right up there with kobe. He had a better post game than kobe. But if how good you were as an NBA player was all about skill Rasheed Wallace would be an all time great. T-Mac just never had the drive to be an icon like Kobe, MJ, or even LeBron. His injuries didn't help either because he wasn't really that efficient when he had his athleticism.

Dude I'm only 17 years old.

Great post.

BTW I Hope Mayo gets traded

[L.Kizzle]

Dude I'm only 17 years old.

Great post.

BTW I Hope Mayo gets traded
When did you start watching ball, this season? When you were 15, Mac was still an All-NBA teamer.

[lilojmayo]

Dude I'm only 17 years old.

Great post.

BTW I Hope Mayo gets traded

I already jumped on the Knicks bandwagon. They are legit this year, and will only get better with Melo next year, maybe CP3, and hopefully Mayo.

not too much older, but anyway if you have a hard time remember Tmac you missed out on the great age of shooting guard and small foward play

Tmac and Kobe were the cream of the crop however, there were guys like Jamal Mashburn, Jerry Stackhouse, Latrell Sprewell, Jalen Rose, Allen Iverson, Gilbert Arenas, Allan Houston, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce were terrorizing the league. A lot of great big men also. The SG, SF, C position has really dipped now that I think about it.

[PowerGlove]

If we were rankings peaks, he would be top 20.

[D.J.]

OP, how old are you that you don't remember Tracy McGrady?
T-Mac was still basically a 25 point per game guy as late as 2007. That was only 3 years ago. In 2008, 2 years ago he averaged like 28 points 8 rebs 7 assists in that 1st round series against Utah.

Prime Tracy McGrady was my favorite player in the league, he was right there with Kobe in his prime in terms of skillset from 2001-2003 i say. His length was incredible and athleticism was also , you just couldn't really guard him. His off the dribble jump shot it what made him really unstoppable.

However, you guys aren't telling both sides to the OP the way he has been talk about in this thread you would think he was better than Jordan or even Kobe. Too many times in his career even in his Orlando days, he would bail teams out because all he wanted to do was shot jack 3 point shots I am talking 10+ 3s taken a game constantly, some days they would go in some they won't.

He wasn't really efficient alot of the times in his scoring even again his Orlando days. He had a ton of games where he would jack up 30 FGAs and only make 12 or so of them and not really get to the line that since he was to business jacking up 3s, and contested jumpers. Score about 35-40 points, but ended up hurting the team more than helped him. A game that comes to my mine right away OP, is the Christmas game against the Pacers it was 2001 i think. All he did that game was jack up shots at a low percentage. He had like 40+ points, but his team lost by like 25 or so.

He had all the tools, to be an all time great defender, but never really cared that much about stopping the other star player from scoring.

In terms of pure basketball skills like post game, tough shots, range, ball handling, athleticism, size he was right up there with kobe. He had a better post game than kobe. But if how good you were as an NBA player was all about skill Rasheed Wallace would be an all time great. T-Mac just never had the drive to be an icon like Kobe, MJ, or even LeBron. His injuries didn't help either because he wasn't really that efficient when he had his athleticism.


Tracy wasn't bailing teams out with his shooting. Kobe or Iverson did, but not T-Mac. Tracy shot in the mid-high 30s from downtown while in Orlando. Just some info:


T-Mac
2000-01: 26.8 PPG/45.7% shooting/22.4 shots per game
2001-02: 25.6 PPG/45.1% shooting/20.9 shots per game
2002-03: 32.1 PPG/45.7% shooting/24.2 shots per game
2003-04: 28.0 PPG/41.7% shooting/23.4 shots per game

Kobe
2000-01: 28.5 PPG/46.4% shooting/22.2 shots per game
2001-02: 25.2 PPG/46.9% shooting/20.0 shots per game
2002-03: 30.0 PPG/45.1% shooting/23.5 shots per game
2003-04: 24.0 PPG/43.8% shooting/18.1 shots per game

Iverson
2000-01: 31.1 PPG/42.0% shooting/25.5 shots per game
2001-02: 31.4 PPG/39.8% shooting/27.8 shots per game
2002-03: 27.6 PPG/41.4% shooting/23.7 shots per game
2003-04: 26.4 PPG/38.7% shooting/23.4 shots per game

Pierce
2000-01: 25.3 PPG/45.4% shooting/18.5 shots per game
2001-02: 26.1 PPG/44.2% shooting/19.5 shots per game
2002-03: 25.9 PPG/41.6% shooting/20.2 shots per game
2003-04: 23.0 PPG/40.2% shooting/18.7 shots per game

Carter
2000-01: 27.6 PPG/46.0% shooting/22.1 shots per game
2001-02: 24.7 PPG/42.8% shooting/21.8 shots per game
2002-03: 20.6 PPG/46.7% shooting/17.7 shots per game
2003-04: 22.5 PPG/41.7% shooting/20.0 shots per game


You can't call McGrady inefficient without looking at other players that played similar games. The only one that didn't chuck to some extent was Pierce. McGrady shot between 45 and 46% in three of the four seasons he was in Orlando. That's not inefficient.

[ShaqAttack3234]

The three became a bigger part of T-Mac's game over time, he was good at those long 2s as well.

T-Mac was actually more of a 3 point shooter than Kobe back then. Kobe could make them, but wasn't really a 3 point shooter until 2003 when he got stronger, improved his range and started takng more. Kobe was a phenomenal mid-range player before that and that was his bread and butter.

Kobe's 3 point numbers from 2001-2004

2001- 0.9 3P, 2.9 3PA, 30.5 3P%
2002- 0.4 3P, 1.7 3PA, 25 3P%
2003- 1.5 3P, 4 3PA, 38.3 3P%
2004- 1.1 3P, 3.3 3PA, 32.7 3P%

And T-Mac's from 2001-2004

2001- 0.8 3P, 2.2 3PA, 35.5 3P%
2002- 1.4 3P, 3.7 3PA, 36.4 3P%
2003- 2.3 3P, 6 3PA, 38.6 3P%
2004- 2.6 3P, 7.7 3PA, 33.9 3P%

He shot more of them over time and had a phenomenal 3 point shooting season in 2003. Making 39% while taking 6 per game and still shooting 46% from the field while averaging 32 ppg, 6.5 rpg and 5.5 apg in the middle of the toughest defensive era is incredible. Oh, and he averaged just 2.6 TO. He did that without a legit second option.

Here are the only players who played 20+ mpg and played the whole season with the 2003 Magic.

34 year old Darrell Armstrong
Pat Garrity
Jacque Vaughn
300+ pound Shawn Kemp in his last season(who basically just shot jumpers at that point, and not at a good percentage)

After that he had Grant Hill at less than 50% for 29 games, Mike Miller for 49 games, Gordan Giricek for 27 games and Drew Gooden for 19 games due to a midseason trade and Hill's injuries.

The only Magic players getting 20+ mpg in the playoffs aside from McGrady(who had to play 44 mpg) were Gooden, Armstrong, Giricek and Garrity.

[magnax1]

Does anyone remember why they traded Mike Miller. Looking back it perplexes me, but I don't really remember what happened.

[Lebron23]

One of the greatest scorers during his prime. I still remember having a Tracy Mcgrady poster inside my bedroom.

I was rooting for the Orlando Magic to beat the Pistons in the playoffs.

[dyna]

4:38 Thank You
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69oNRWPnSFg#t=4m38s

:lol

[L.Kizzle]

Does anyone remember why they traded Mike Miller. Looking back it perplexes me, but I don't really remember what happened.
I think they needed a big man and thought Drew Gooden was gonna be the answer.

[phoenix_bladen]

i remember he was so good i never thought he'd be so good after he left toronto.

he was my favourite player in toronto ... unfortunately he didn't want to be there because he hated canada....

when he left i was so sad.... it was a HUGE blow to the raptors....... him and carter could have been great

he basically pulled a lebron on toronto before lebron!

[HALLandOATES]

we're talking about how good tmac was in his prime because people can't remember..man i'm getting old....

im guessing everyones saying he's similar to durant..length,shooting but tmac was as good as play maker as anyone in the league

[HALLandOATES]

pistons fans why isn't tracy shooting this year?? i live in mich and have caught a couple of the games and he's moving really well and looks nice but hes very passive

[magnax1]

I think they needed a big man and thought Drew Gooden was gonna be the answer.
Trading you second best player for Drew Gooden is.... questionable...
:lol

[Dave3]

I think they needed a big man and thought Drew Gooden was gonna be the answer.
Yeah, Gooden was a rookie power forward, so they thought he could improve their team. Also, they got Gordan Giricek in that trade, and thought he'd be a valid replacement for Miller considering the bonus of Gooden. It wasn't such a horrible trade at the time, just Gooden didn't pan out at all, and I have no idea what happened to Gordan.

[magnax1]

Yeah, Gooden was a rookie power forward, so they thought he could improve their team. Also, they got Gordan Giricek in that trade, and thought he'd be a valid replacement for Miller considering the bonus of Gooden. It wasn't such a horrible trade at the time, just Gooden didn't pan out at all, and I have no idea what happened to Gordan.
He used to play starting SG Utah. He's a good shooter, but could do nothing else. He's not in the league anymore though.

[Dave3]

He used to play starting SG Utah. He's a good shooter, but could do nothing else. He's not in the league anymore though.
Yeah, I remember him vaguely going to Utah. Point is though, the trade wasn't horrible. They got a shooter and a rebounding/offensive PF for Miller. A few more trades and losing Hill's contract and they could've been a solid team. I have no clue what happened the following year though. It was the exact same team and they lost 19 in a row or something and managed 21 wins. That season perplexes me to no end...

[magnax1]

Yeah, I remember him vaguely going to Utah. Point is though, the trade wasn't horrible. They got a shooter and a rebounding/offensive PF for Miller. A few more trades and losing Hill's contract and they could've been a solid team. I have no clue what happened the following year though. It was the exact same team and they lost 19 in a row or something and managed 21 wins. That season perplexes me to no end...
Well I think TMac sort of just gave up. He definitely played better in 05. Plus their two best players, Hill and Miller went from 80 combined games to 0.

[disel]

McGrady is a loser. If Yao had a legit Superstar all those years he would have won multipale rings.

[che guevara]

McGrady is a loser. If Yao had a legit Superstar all those years he would have won multipale rings.
sup RG?

[Rose]

McGrady is a loser. If Yao had a legit Superstar all those years he would have won multipale rings.
Dwight>>>>>>>Oden>>>>>>>Yao.

[MMM]

I'm going to be stright up and say I wasn't a T-mac fan. There is a lot of praise for him in this thread but I don't really understand how he couldn't take the Magic past the first round when the rest of the sklled 2/3s were able to lead their medicore teams to the 2nd round or futher. Maybe I'm being to unfair but if his peak was as good as you guys say he should of able been to get it done :confusedshrug:

[FindingTim]

I'm going to be stright up and say I wasn't a T-mac fan. There is a lot of praise for him in this thread but I don't really understand how he couldn't take the Magic past the first round when the rest of the sklled 2/3s were able to lead their medicore teams to the 2nd round or futher. Maybe I'm being to unfair but if his peak was as good as you guys say he should of able been to get it done :confusedshrug:

28-7-6: Tracy McGrady's career playoff averages.
I'm just sayin :confusedshrug:

and to answer the thread title, prime T-Mac was one of the most complete guards to ever play. At his peak he was like a longer, better passing, more athletic Kobe with better decision making... at his peak he was the best guard in the league.

[disel]

I'm going to be stright up and say I wasn't a T-mac fan. There is a lot of praise for him in this thread but I don't really understand how he couldn't take the Magic past the first round when the rest of the sklled 2/3s were able to lead their medicore teams to the 2nd round or futher. Maybe I'm being to unfair but if his peak was as good as you guys say he should of able been to get it done :confusedshrug:
McGrady is a loser

[disel]

Dwight>>>>>>>Oden>>>>>>>Yao.
Besides the Media hype, how is Dwight better then Yao? Yao is one of the greatests skilled big men ever to play the game and Dwight is a scrub on offense.Yao>Dwight

[lilojmayo]

Tracy wasn't bailing teams out with his shooting. Kobe or Iverson did, but not T-Mac. Tracy shot in the mid-high 30s from downtown while in Orlando. Just some info:


T-Mac
2000-01: 26.8 PPG/45.7% shooting/22.4 shots per game
2001-02: 25.6 PPG/45.1% shooting/20.9 shots per game
2002-03: 32.1 PPG/45.7% shooting/24.2 shots per game
2003-04: 28.0 PPG/41.7% shooting/23.4 shots per game

Kobe
2000-01: 28.5 PPG/46.4% shooting/22.2 shots per game
2001-02: 25.2 PPG/46.9% shooting/20.0 shots per game
2002-03: 30.0 PPG/45.1% shooting/23.5 shots per game
2003-04: 24.0 PPG/43.8% shooting/18.1 shots per game

Iverson
2000-01: 31.1 PPG/42.0% shooting/25.5 shots per game
2001-02: 31.4 PPG/39.8% shooting/27.8 shots per game
2002-03: 27.6 PPG/41.4% shooting/23.7 shots per game
2003-04: 26.4 PPG/38.7% shooting/23.4 shots per game

Pierce
2000-01: 25.3 PPG/45.4% shooting/18.5 shots per game
2001-02: 26.1 PPG/44.2% shooting/19.5 shots per game
2002-03: 25.9 PPG/41.6% shooting/20.2 shots per game
2003-04: 23.0 PPG/40.2% shooting/18.7 shots per game

Carter
2000-01: 27.6 PPG/46.0% shooting/22.1 shots per game
2001-02: 24.7 PPG/42.8% shooting/21.8 shots per game
2002-03: 20.6 PPG/46.7% shooting/17.7 shots per game
2003-04: 22.5 PPG/41.7% shooting/20.0 shots per game


You can't call McGrady inefficient without looking at other players that played similar games. The only one that didn't chuck to some extent was Pierce. McGrady shot between 45 and 46% in three of the four seasons he was in Orlando. That's not inefficient.


he was up and down and it just averaged to be 45% FG. He had games where he would go 16/20 FG just as easily as he would go 6/20 FG. You guys aren't being very one sided in this thread about Prime Tmac. Again, he was my favorite player during that time and the op didn't watch him then. I remember games where he would just shot jack the ball like no other. I'm talking like 1-10 3pt line. This is during his prime, I mean just look at his game logs

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3179/gamelog;_ylt=Auzo7X6FDqt3gCYuooQABFwtPKB4?year=200 3

I mean look at Feb 22 he went 1-7 3pt next game 2-14 3pt next game 3-12 3pt next game 3-12 3pt.



That being said, one thing that I made Tracy really unique, was he always raised his level of play in the playoffs. Put up Jordan like numbers during the playoffs. He was truely a one man team during the playoffs.

[lilojmayo]

28-7-6: Tracy McGrady's career playoff averages.
I'm just sayin :confusedshrug:

and to answer the thread title, prime T-Mac was one of the most complete guards to ever play. At his peak he was like a longer, better passing, more athletic Kobe with better decision making... at his peak he was the best guard in the league.

I agree T-Mac was one of the most complete guards to ever play. However, better than Kobe? Please explain, he had a better post game, was a better passer, more athletic and more physically gifted than Kobe, but Kobe was better at every other aspect of the game.

[Vince15]

in his prime he was the best scorer in the NBA at the time or 2nd if you really want to nitpick

[Bigsmoke]

In terms of peak

1. Lebron
2. McGrady
3. Kobe4. Wade

:wtf:

[Apocalyptic0n3]

As a Pistons fan, I hated him. He always seemed to be in our way in the playoffs. Him and the unerrated Darrell Armstrong. Either way, he was possibly the best player in the league and had one of the best seasons of all time (and easily the best post-Jordan)

[ShaqAttack3234]

Here's T-Mac's first 50 point game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xi6MZxj9N7A

[artificial]

Here's T-Mac's first 50 point game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xi6MZxj9N7A
Regarding the other game you put earlier in this thread, surprised me a lot because the Grant Hill in Magic uniform sighting :oldlol: Pretty sure he didn't played more than a handful of games with Orlando.


And this thread made me feel old as hell. So many people that didn't saw prime McGrady, and I even remember him in a Raps uni. This -and how easy is it to tell that many people are just pretending to know sh

[MMM]

28-7-6: Tracy McGrady's career playoff averages.
I'm just sayin :confusedshrug:

and to answer the thread title, prime T-Mac was one of the most complete guards to ever play. At his peak he was like a longer, better passing, more athletic Kobe with better decision making... at his peak he was the best guard in the league.

Those are really good stats but without going through the better competition of the later rounds when teams tend to be better defensively how much do they actually mean????

Baron Davis, Paul Pierce, and AI were all able to lead mediocre teams to at least the 2nd round during the same period of time. Yet what some call the 2nd best scorer of this period wasn't able to do the same.

[AI3Anthony]

I don't care what anyone says, back then he was one of, if not THE best player in the entire league. And if he could have avoided injuries we'd be discussing some of the greatest ever. Watch videos of him before injuries.. simply amazing.

[ShaqAttack3234]

[QUOTE=artificial]Regarding the other game you put earlier in this thread, surprised me a lot because the Grant Hill in Magic uniform sighting :oldlol: Pretty sure he didn't played more than a handful of games with Orlando.


And this thread made me feel old as hell. So many people that didn't saw prime McGrady, and I even remember him in a Raps uni. This -and how easy is it to tell that many people are just pretending to know sh

[blondie]

28-7-6: Tracy McGrady's career playoff averages.
I'm just sayin :confusedshrug:

and to answer the thread title, prime T-Mac was one of the most complete guards to ever play. At his peak he was like a longer, better passing, more athletic Kobe with better decision making... at his peak he was the best guard in the league.
there's such a thing as empty stats. Just sayin:confusedshrug:

[thejumpa]

I agree T-Mac was one of the most complete guards to ever play. However, better than Kobe? Please explain, he had a better post game, was a better passer, more athletic and more physically gifted than Kobe, but Kobe was better at every other aspect of the game.

One could argue that TMac(at his peak) was the better player because he was more of a complete player. He could handle the ball, pass extremely well, and essentially run an offense as the PG...a very smart one at that. That's a pretty big aspect of the game, don't you think?

Kobe was a better shooter and a better defender. In case I'm missing something(and I very well could be), that's about it. Obviously TMac had his length and height advantages but he also had skills that Kobe had either not shown with the same consistency or just not shown at all.

I don't want to turn this into a Kobe vs TMac thread but that's just my 2 cents. Shaqattack...keep putting up those videos!

[ShaqAttack3234]

One could argue that TMac(at his peak) was the better player because he was more of a complete player. He could handle the ball, pass extremely well, and essentially run an offense as the PG...a very smart one at that. That's a pretty big aspect of the game, don't you think?

Kobe was a better shooter and a better defender. In case I'm missing something(and I very well could be), that's about it. Obviously TMac had his length and height advantages but he also had skills that Kobe had either not shown with the same consistency or just not shown at all.

I don't want to turn this into a Kobe vs TMac thread but that's just my 2 cents. Shaqattack...keep putting up those videos!

No problem, I think I put up a big game he had in the '05 playoffs vs Dallas a while back, like I said, there will be more T-Mac videos to come.

McGrady was a better 3 point shooter at his peak than Kobe, though I think Kobe had an even better mid-range game.

As far as T-Mac vs Kobe? Personally, I take Kobe in 2001, Kobe in 2002(though it's close that year), T-Mac in 2003(close again), Kobe in 2004 and T-Mac in 2005(though still close given their situations). After that, Kobe separated himself from T-Mac, partially due to Kobe getting even better and partially due to Kobe's health.

It's a shame that T-Mac peaked so early at 23, it makes you wonder how good he could've been had his back held up.

[blondie]

One could argue that TMac(at his peak) was the better player because he was more of a complete player. He could handle the ball, pass extremely well, and essentially run an offense as the PG...a very smart one at that. That's a pretty big aspect of the game, don't you think?

Kobe was a better shooter and a better defender. In case I'm missing something(and I very well could be), that's about it. Obviously TMac had his length and height advantages but he also had skills that Kobe had either not shown with the same consistency or just not shown at all.

I don't want to turn this into a Kobe vs TMac thread but that's just my 2 cents. Shaqattack...keep putting up those videos!
Guess what you are forgetting about- the other side of the court. T-Mac refused to play defense which is why he always lost in the playoffs and got lit up by opposing bigs. Kobe as overrated as his defense may be, has won all NBA first team defense awards while putting up his offense.

[Dwade305]

Guess what you are forgetting about- the other side of the court. T-Mac refused to play defense which is why he always lost in the playoffs and got lit up by opposing bigs. Kobe as overrated as his defense may be, has won all NBA first team defense awards while putting up his offense.

:roll:

[thejumpa]

No problem, I think I put up a big game he had in the '05 playoffs vs Dallas a while back, like I said, there will be more T-Mac videos to come.

McGrady was a better 3 point shooter at his peak than Kobe, though I think Kobe had an even better mid-range game.

As far as T-Mac vs Kobe? Personally, I take Kobe in 2001, Kobe in 2002(though it's close that year), T-Mac in 2003(close again), Kobe in 2004 and T-Mac in 2005(though still close given their situations). After that, Kobe separated himself from T-Mac, partially due to Kobe getting even better and partially due to Kobe's health.

It's a shame that T-Mac peaked so early at 23, it makes you wonder how good he could've been had his back held up.

Yeah I can't remember if he had back issues in Toronto or not, but I remeber hearing about it in Orlando and thinking "how bad can his back at that age" I really had no idea. His knee issues were the killer though.

Your spot on when it comes to the years, though. It was back and forth until around 06 when Kobe when nuts and TMac kind of faded away. It makes you think about something though. The things that Kobe got better on from 05 on, which was probably being a smarter passer and incorporating a post game, were something TMac already had. It was well known that they both practiced in the off season together throughout those years so maybe Kobe saw something that he could improve on and just went with it. Either way, TMac got derailed and Kobe took off. I just can't stand when people say things like "TMac was never better, he was never on Kobes level!" It just goes to show how ignorant and young kids are today.

And yeah, Kobes mid range game was better than TMacs. However, TMac probably had the best pull up jumper I've ever seen and had more range than Kobe. It's amazing to see how little lift he gets on his shots nowadays. Hes lost a lot of explosiveness.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Yeah I can't remember if he had back issues in Toronto or not, but I remeber hearing about it in Orlando and thinking "how bad can his back at that age" I really had no idea. His knee issues were the killer though.

Your spot on when it comes to the years, though. It was back and forth until around 06 when Kobe when nuts and TMac kind of faded away. It makes you think about something though. The things that Kobe got better on from 05 on, which was probably being a smarter passer and incorporating a post game, were something TMac already had. It was well known that they both practiced in the off season together throughout those years so maybe Kobe saw something that he could improve on and just went with it. Either way, TMac got derailed and Kobe took off. I just can't stand when people say things like "TMac was never better, he was never on Kobes level!" It just goes to show how ignorant and young kids are today.

And yeah, Kobes mid range game was better than TMacs. However, TMac probably had the best pull up jumper I've ever seen and had more range than Kobe. It's amazing to see how little lift he gets on his shots nowadays. Hes lost a lot of explosiveness.

Yeah, his back problems were talked about as far back as his first or second year in Orlando, but I didn't think much of it early because he kept getting better.

The injuries really affected the touch on his jumper, he did get less elevation(and T-Mac's elevation on his jumper was always a strength) and his shots got flatter making him more inconsistent.

Yeah, T-Mac's range on his pull up jumper was pretty amazing. I also loved how smooth he was with his ball handling skills and those reverse lay ups and finger rolls.

Kobe already had that fadeaway and a good post up game as far back as 2000 or so, iirc, but he did improve in that area and became more of a 3 point shooter over time while improving his footwork, strength and his mid-range game even more.

But I don't think it's fair to criticize T-Mac for not always committing to defense(very few big time perimeter scorers do), I mean, in Orlando, he was in roughly the same situation Kobe was post-Shaq and pre-Gasol, and he did step up on that end at times, just like Kobe in those other years, but neither did it consistently when they had to carry teams.

Actually, Kobe's best defensive season was 2000 which is still his second lowest scoring season as a starter, when you don't have to score as much, typically you give more energy at that end. T-Mac was the primary focus of opposing defenses every night in Orlando and if he wasn't getting his 25-30 ppg and setting everyone up, chances are they weren't winning.

[32jazz]

Yeah, he could score in every way imaginable, could rebound, could pass, and was a really under rated defender. (until he got to Houston and stopped playing D)

Very true.

You quoted a poster who claim Kobe's efg% never got above 45% at his peak which is false. Kobe NEVER in his career has an efg% below 45%:facepalm


In Fact he had 3 consecutive seasons above 50% in 07-09.


Kobe's efg% bested McGrady's then & for their careers .

[Dave3]

:roll:
He's here only to get these kinds of responses from people. If you ignore him he'll go away. Once you reply, he gets what he wants. He doesn't actually believe anything he's typing, he just wants attention.

[D.J.]

he was up and down and it just averaged to be 45% FG. He had games where he would go 16/20 FG just as easily as he would go 6/20 FG. You guys aren't being very one sided in this thread about Prime Tmac. Again, he was my favorite player during that time and the op didn't watch him then. I remember games where he would just shot jack the ball like no other. I'm talking like 1-10 3pt line. This is during his prime, I mean just look at his game logs


And how was Kobe any different?

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

When did you start watching ball, this season? When you were 15, Mac was still an All-NBA teamer.
:facepalm :facepalm i watched NBA since i was a little kid, but was focused on NBA when i was like in grade 5 or 6 :confusedshrug: and i believe T-mac was in Houston @ that time and the title says Orlando Tracy McGrady

[PrimeJohnnyDepp]

He was a taller version of Allen Iverson. Prime Shaq wouldn't get along with him, it would be stupid to watch. Toooo egotistical, doesn't get along with teammates. Impatient, shallow.

Iverson could play with Prime O'Neal in 2001. Prime Grant Hill couldn't.. Lebron could play with prime O'Neal. Vince Carter, not really. Tracy McGrady, no. Just not a very interesting person.

McGrady on 2004 Pistons? Poetry, probably.

[lilojmayo]

:facepalm :facepalm i watched NBA since i was a little kid, but was focused on NBA when i was like in grade 5 or 6 :confusedshrug: and i believe T-mac was in Houston @ that time and the title says Orlando Tracy McGrady

Tracy McGrady had a few seasons as a Rocket better than his Orlando years outside of that 03 season, way better than his 04' season. He just was less efficient during the Rocket years, due to loosing a little athletism.

[zay_24]

Never better than Kobe

[D.J.]

He was a taller version of Allen Iverson. Prime Shaq wouldn't get along with him, it would be stupid to watch. Toooo egotistical, doesn't get along with teammates. Impatient, shallow.

Iverson could play with Prime O'Neal in 2001. Prime Grant Hill couldn't.. Lebron could play with prime O'Neal. Vince Carter, not really. Tracy McGrady, no. Just not a very interesting person.

McGrady on 2004 Pistons? Poetry, probably.


Iverson was a volume scorer and shot sub 40%. McGrady at his worst was still around 41-42% and was regularly between 45 and 46% in Orlando.

[Steve212]

Man, I was in H.S. during his hey day, and the T-Mac/Kobe convos would damn near end up in full blown arguments.

[Bigsmoke]

Those are really good stats but without going through the better competition of the later rounds when teams tend to be better defensively how much do they actually mean????

Baron Davis, Paul Pierce, and AI were all able to lead mediocre teams to at least the 2nd round during the same period of time. Yet what some call the 2nd best scorer of this period wasn't able to do the same.

he speaks the truth.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Tracy McGrady had a few seasons as a Rocket better than his Orlando years outside of that 03 season, way better than his 04' season. He just was less efficient during the Rocket years, due to loosing a little athletism.

yeah i know that

[scm5]

Offensively, Tmac was better than Kobe in that 03 season.

However, Kobe was playing out of his mind defensively during that time period. This was basically when Kobe built his defensive reputation... combine that with his offensive numbers being near that of Tmac's... and Kobe was the more complete player.

I will say one thing though...

For a volume scorer and distributer, Tmac had a VERY low turnover ratio. While in Orlando, he never reached 3 turnovers a game.

[King Kong]

Man, I was in H.S. during his hey day, and the T-Mac/Kobe convos would damn near end up in full blown arguments.
thats funny

[D.J.]

Offensively, Tmac was better than Kobe in that 03 season.

However, Kobe was playing out of his mind defensively during that time period. This was basically when Kobe built his defensive reputation... combine that with his offensive numbers being near that of Tmac's... and Kobe was the more complete player.

I will say one thing though...

For a volume scorerand distributer, Tmac had a VERY low turnover ratio. While in Orlando, he never reached 3 turnovers a game.


He was not a volume scorer. Volume scorers shoot low percentages.

[TheMiz]

Think Kobe with a more consistent jump shot.

[L.Kizzle]

Man, I was in H.S. during his hey day, and the T-Mac/Kobe convos would damn near end up in full blown arguments.
It escalated into a fight one time when I was in school.