Will this Kobe Bryant prediction come true?

[bruceblitz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-KXeCkV8PY

I believe it's gonna happen. He's gonna turn it up a few notches.

[SinJackal]

I was beginning to think Bruce Blitz didn't exist anymore.

Welcome back?

[Batz]

11:26. Didn't anyone tell you that less is more? :rant

[StacksOnDeck]

Stopped watching when you said Kobe is currently 17th all time. I would love to read your lmao list.

[AJ2k8]

Bet Jeff is happy right now:D

[BlueandGold]

I don't think that Kobe will win MVP this year or but there is a chance he might win Finals MVP.

Nice video... looks like you put a lot of time into it.. looks well made.

[bruceblitz]

Stopped watching when you said Kobe is currently 17th all time. I would love to read your lmao list.
http://hoopsapedia.webs.com/top50nbaplayers.htm

[TheAnchorman]

Hasn't happened so far this year. When he plays at the level he did early in the 2009-2010 season (before that injury) then it will definitely happen.

[Ruh-Roh]

http://hoopsapedia.webs.com/top50nbaplayers.htm

8-10 you can make very good cases to put above Kobe or vice versa, Wilt and Russell should be switched though at the least. Karl Malone & down though I don't think I agree with a lot of those contemporary players being that high...

[andgar923]

Career wise, Kobe can end up with a better resume and based on that he can jump.

But he's still short of being better player than some of the players in your list (sorry Kobe fans)..... he just doesn't get 'it' and he never will.

As I've mentioned over and over, year after year, Kobe is just too damn stupid and inconsistent.

And I highly doubt that he'd be where he is today if he'd gone to the Hornets.

[SinJackal]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-KXeCkV8PY

I believe it's gonna happen. He's gonna turn it up a few notches.

Kobe's already in my top 10, whether he wins this year or not. I have him at #9. 5 titles, even if 3 weren't as the best player on the team, is still very solid. He shouldn't have to win again to be in your top 10 man.

I'm not sure Kobe wins the MVP, as the Lakers look more sluggish this year than the last two. The Lakers might not even be a top 2 seed in the west this year, which would severely hurt their chances at winning a title. I don't think they're capable of winning a title if they don't have home court in rounds 2, 3 and Finals. So if they "coast" through the regular season, they definitely don't win the title without a 1-2 seed.

If the Lakers get the #1 seed, which is looking unlikely so far (albeit the season's early), then Kobe can possibly get the MVP since he'd qualify for it. Though his level of play the last two years has been clearly better than his level of play this year.


The Lakers have the Mavs and Spurs to contend with out west too. Jazz too. If the Lakers don't get the 1 seed. . .or even the 2 seed, they're not winning. I don't see them beating the Mavs, Spurs, and Celtics all in a row without home court. They better get it together and win the conference.

[jstern]

Hasn't happened so far this year. When he plays at the level he did early in the 2009-2010 season (before that injury) then it will definitely happen.
One thing that people forget about 2009-2010 season is that the Lakers had an extremely easy schedule, so I would have liked to see how Kobe would have finished the whole season without the injuries, but I doubt he would have sustained it.

[branslowski]

http://hoopsapedia.webs.com/top50nbaplayers.htm

:oldlol: :facepalm

[StacksOnDeck]

Barkley over Kobe...HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

[andgar923]

Barkley over Kobe...HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

don't see what's so funny :confusedshrug:

[G-Funk]

Top 17?:roll: :roll:

[All Net]

Kobe's already in my top 10, whether he wins this year or not. I have him at #9. 5 titles, even if 3 weren't as the best player on the team, is still very solid. He shouldn't have to win again to be in your top 10 man.

I'm not sure Kobe wins the MVP, as the Lakers look more sluggish this year than the last two. The Lakers might not even be a top 2 seed in the west this year, which would severely hurt their chances at winning a title. I don't think they're capable of winning a title if they don't have home court in rounds 2, 3 and Finals. So if they "coast" through the regular season, they definitely don't win the title without a 1-2 seed.

If the Lakers get the #1 seed, which is looking unlikely so far (albeit the season's early), then Kobe can possibly get the MVP since he'd qualify for it. Though his level of play the last two years has been clearly better than his level of play this year.


The Lakers have the Mavs and Spurs to contend with out west too. Jazz too. If the Lakers don't get the 1 seed. . .or even the 2 seed, they're not winning. I don't see them beating the Mavs, Spurs, and Celtics all in a row without home court. They better get it together and win the conference.

Disagree completely the only team L.A needs HCA over is Boston. Lakers would beat Spurs and Mavs with or without homecourt. Neither of those teams have what it takes to beat L.A.

Hell if L.A are healthly I still say they beat Boston even without HCA. Although the chances aren't as strong as it would be without game 7 in L.A.

[AirJordan&Magic]

don't see what's so funny :confusedshrug:

You seriously can't see how ridiculous it is to have Barkley ranked over Kobe??? Or even having Kobe ranked lower than 11 on the All time greats list?

[andgar923]

You seriously can't see how ridiculous it is to have Barkley ranked over Kobe??? Or even having Kobe ranked lower than 11 on the All time greats list?

I hope this is sarcasm.

[SinJackal]

Disagree completely the only team L.A needs HCA over is Boston. Lakers would beat Spurs and Mavs with or without homecourt. Neither of those teams have what it takes to beat L.A.

Hell if L.A are healthly I still say they beat Boston even without HCA. Although the chances aren't as strong as it would be without game 7 in L.A.

I respect your opinion, but I just don't see them beating the other 3 of the top 4 teams in the league all in a row w/o home court. Any of those three can beat them if they have home court, imo. If the Lakers actually did beat all 3 in a row without home court, that would be arguably the most impressive title gained ever. Well, one of the hardest roads to a title anyway.

[Holy Random]

Bruce is back.... Omg... Can't you not fake retire from something in your life?

[AirJordan&Magic]

I hope this is sarcasm.

I am hoping the same, if you are seriously agreeing with the foolish notion that Charles Barkley should be ranked higher than Kobe.
That is laughable if anyone seriously agrees with such foolishness.

[bruceblitz]

I hope this is sarcasm.
Do you think they even take the time to read each player's legacy? No
http://hoopsapedia.webs.com/top50nbaplayers.htm

This obsessive nature of these guys to have Kobe ranked above this player or that player on an all time list comes from a lack of knowledge about the history of the game. Really it doesn't bother me any more because I know tons of historians when it pertains to the game of professional basketball who are able to look at someone's individual career and put it in perspective when ranking other individual careers. When someone goes "5 rings" "81 points" or whatever, I just laugh at the post, comment, or video and move on because clearly the true historians of the game are few and far between and the ones who take exception with Kobe's ranking but do not even discuss other all time greats, well, they really aren't gonna influence my opinion anyways. I doubt they would influence yours as well. A bunch of kids who didn't even start understanding the game of basketball until a few years ago really don't matter anyways when it comes to validity of an all time list. The day someone like hoopsencyclopedia laughs at my list, and says I'm crazy, well at that point I'll know I'm off. At this point guys like hoops, and many others, agree with the basis to my rankings and these rankings are subject to change due to the potential of each current player adding to their legacy. In the video I clearly stated that if he's able to pull off a league MVP and Finals MVP this year that I feel he would have done enough to put him in the top 10. The fact that we have to respond to such nonsense only tells you that we are responding to fanboys who feel "slighted" because their favorite player who they live vicariously through isn't being worshiped to the standard that they have become accustomed to by the hype spitting media. End rant.

[G-Funk]

The Video was good but dang dawg top 20? really? dude has been averaging 28-5-5 since he was 21, same age as Jordan when he came into the league. He has gotten a whole a shit load of defensive teams. has averaged 1 shot less per game then the greatest peremeter player of All-time(MJ). U don't even point out the rings he won with Shaq,... do you count Magic's with Kareem? do you count West championships with Wilt?

[Ruh-Roh]

8-10 you can make very good cases to put above Kobe or vice versa, Wilt and Russell should be switched though at the least. Karl Malone & down though I don't think I agree with a lot of those contemporary players being that high...



This obsessive nature of these guys to have Kobe ranked above this player or that player on an all time list comes from a lack of knowledge about the history of the game.

....In the video I clearly stated that if he's able to pull off a league MVP and Finals MVP this year that I feel he would have done enough to put him in the top 10. The fact that we have to respond to such nonsense only tells you that we are responding to fanboys who feel "slighted" because their favorite player who they live vicariously through isn't being worshiped to the standard that they have become accustomed to by the hype spitting media. End rant.

I guess you missed the Bulls avy & Chicago location. I'm a Jordan guy through & through and I like LeBron more than Kobe, though not by as much recently. Even still...how do you justify moving Kobe over Barkley if he get's another FMVP when Barkley doesn't have one at all, Malone too for that matter.

[BlueandGold]

Do you think they even take the time to read each player's legacy? No
http://hoopsapedia.webs.com/top50nbaplayers.htm

This obsessive nature of these guys to have Kobe ranked above this player or that player on an all time list comes from a lack of knowledge about the history of the game. Really it doesn't bother me any more because I know tons of historians when it pertains to the game of professional basketball who are able to look at someone's individual career and put it in perspective when ranking other individual careers. When someone goes "5 rings" "81 points" or whatever, I just laugh at the post, comment, or video and move on because clearly the true historians of the game are few and far between and the ones who take exception with Kobe's ranking but do not even discuss other all time greats, well, they really aren't gonna influence my opinion anyways. I doubt they would influence yours as well. A bunch of kids who didn't even start understanding the game of basketball until a few years ago really don't matter anyways when it comes to validity of an all time list. The day someone like hoopsencyclopedia laughs at my list, and says I'm crazy, well at that point I'll know I'm off. At this point guys like hoops, and many others, agree with the basis to my rankings and these rankings are subject to change due to the potential of each current player adding to their legacy. In the video I clearly stated that if he's able to pull off a league MVP and Finals MVP this year that I feel he would have done enough to put him in the top 10. The fact that we have to respond to such nonsense only tells you that we are responding to fanboys who feel "slighted" because their favorite player who they live vicariously through isn't being worshiped to the standard that they have become accustomed to by the hype spitting media. End rant.

Have you heard of paragraphs? Your sentence structure = wtf. Stick to making videos.

[bruceblitz]

I guess you missed the Bulls avy & Chicago location. I'm a Jordan guy through & through and I like LeBron more than Kobe, though not by as much recently. Even still...how do you justify moving Kobe over Barkley if he get's another FMVP when Barkley doesn't have one at all, Malone too for that matter.
Look...

#1, the question is do you think Kobe will win the league MVP and Finals MVP this year, yes or no. Simple.

#2, I'll even pull the quote from the post I provided:
"The only thing really holding Kobe back is his inconsistency, and once again in the NBA Finals he simply did not dominate like a top 10-15 player of all time who's been there so many times should."

Barkley was the definition of consistency, and Barkley didn't have the luxury of playing for one of the most dedicated franchises in NBA history to build teams around him that could really compete with the likes of Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen. Once again you are forgetting the team aspect to an individual comparison. When you come into the league and have Shaq there to hide your faults, while being a part of 3 championship teams, it's easy to lose perspective. When you have a franchise that every year puts more and more winners around you, it's easier to achieve a Finals MVP status. Charles Barkley didn't have that luxury. Barkley was a better and more consistent all around individual player and the fact that I have to even post this tells me a lot about your knowledge when it pertains to Sir Charles Barkley's career.

[andgar923]

I am hoping the same, if you are seriously agreeing with the foolish notion that Charles Barkley should be ranked higher than Kobe.
That is laughable if anyone seriously agrees with such foolishness.

How is it foolish?

Charles is one of the greatest players of all time and a top 4 PF (if not higher), how is it laughable or foolish?

[bruceblitz]

The Video was good but dang dawg top 20? really? dude has been averaging 28-5-5 since he was 21, same age as Jordan when he came into the league. He has gotten a whole a shit load of defensive teams. has averaged 1 shot less per game then the greatest peremeter player of All-time(MJ). U don't even point out the rings he won with Shaq,... do you count Magic's with Kareem? do you count West championships with Wilt?

You leave out fg%. When looking at how good a player is you MUST look at their missed shots and consistency.

For instance when Kobe Bryant "passed" Jerry West, how many people really took a long look at it like this?
http://hoopsapedia.webs.com/the10000nbaclub.htm

Once again, I know that most people don't "get it", so on that note I'd like to give andgar923 a big shout out because he does.

I'm gonna leave this thread alone at this point because it's not even on topic any more. The questions are simple, will Kobe win the league MVP and Finals MVP this year, yes or no?

Other than that, there's no need to continue this from my standpoint because I'm wasting valuable time. I don't need to respond to people who's vocabulary includes the word "hater" when you have someone in the top 17 basketball players of all time, predict he's gonna win the league and Finals MVP this year, and have him as a top 6 perimeter player of all time. If that's a hater, well, wake up. This is why I hate ISH because you fanboys and people who have little education when it pertains to the history of the NBA, and when it pertains to the greatness of other players, I hate wasting my time. These are not "stats", we are talking about shots that Kobe Bryant missed, and games where he played like crap. I'm out.

[theoneneo]

Why DO You guys respond to this Moron, You can sit there and Analyze from your couch all you wan't , Use Geek Stats like Per and Eff to criticize Kobe, but at the end of the day besides Michael Jordan I wan't the Ball in this Guy's Hands, Per and Eff really don't matter as long as Kobe is Putting the Ball in the basket and Winning Rings.

Which is what you don't seem to understand, The guys who actually play the game will tell you how great Kobe is (Voted number 1 again by his peers) Last year after Kobe won his fifth Ring America Voted him #3 all time, so Unfortunately Bruce you are in a small group of people who think he's not Top 10.

U seem like a smart guy, but don't let the Kobe hate Blind you man, appreciate Greatness when you see it

[Ruh-Roh]

Look...

#1, the question is do you think Kobe will win the league MVP and Finals MVP this year, yes or no. Simple.

#2, I'll even pull the quote from the post I provided:
"The only thing really holding Kobe back is his inconsistency, and once again in the NBA Finals he simply did not dominate like a top 10-15 player of all time who's been there so many times should."

Barkley was the definition of consistency, and Barkley didn't have the luxury of playing for one of the most dedicated franchises in NBA history to build teams around him that could really compete with the likes of Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen. Once again you are forgetting the team aspect to an individual comparison. When you come into the league and have Shaq there to hide your faults, while being a part of 3 championship teams, it's easy to lose perspective. When you have a franchise that every year puts more and more winners around you, it's easier to achieve a Finals MVP status. Charles Barkley didn't have that luxury. Barkley was a better and more consistent all around individual player and the fact that I have to even post this tells me a lot about your knowledge when it pertains to Sir Charles Barkley's career.

Barkley played with Hakeem and Clyde at the same time. I was young, but I did see him play and I watched the ESPN or whatever channel documentary about him. Of that era, he's one of my favorite players/personalities & we all read Round Mounds bolded posts.

In terms of consistency, his athleticism lacked it in terms of his conditioning & injuries added to that even more. Fortunately, his freakish genetics covered a lot of that up. On the same note, his attitude was inconsistent. You can knock Kobe & LeBron for the same thing but it's true.

If Jordan wasn't there (and when he actually wasn't) Barkley was heir apparent. That also doesn't address Karl Malone, who was spoon fed half his points from one of the GOAT pure point guards, and who also has no FMVP and shouldn't have gotten the regular season one over Jordan i.m.o.

Your All-Time list is way to 90's heavy to be considered a true historians list. Ask G.O.A.T. to finish his.

I don't mind you having an opinion, but don't dismiss me for having mine when you can't possibly know what my background is the same way I can't know yours. When you do that you eliminate the possibility of learning something from someone who isn't mainstream acknowledged, which you also dismiss already for being Kobe-jockers.

That right there tells me something about you, that it's impossible to know as much as you are saying when you aren't willing to listen. Who's good enough for you, really?

How can you talk about consistency and have the most consistent winner, Russell, under Wilt by like 5 places...

[AirJordan&Magic]

Do you think they even take the time to read each player's legacy? No
http://hoopsapedia.webs.com/top50nbaplayers.htm

This obsessive nature of these guys to have Kobe ranked above this player or that player on an all time list comes from a lack of knowledge about the history of the game. Really it doesn't bother me any more because I know tons of historians when it pertains to the game of professional basketball who are able to look at someone's individual career and put it in perspective when ranking other individual careers. When someone goes "5 rings" "81 points" or whatever, I just laugh at the post, comment, or video and move on because clearly the true historians of the game are few and far between and the ones who take exception with Kobe's ranking but do not even discuss other all time greats, well, they really aren't gonna influence my opinion anyways. I doubt they would influence yours as well. A bunch of kids who didn't even start understanding the game of basketball until a few years ago really don't matter anyways when it comes to validity of an all time list. The day someone like hoopsencyclopedia laughs at my list, and says I'm crazy, well at that point I'll know I'm off. At this point guys like hoops, and many others, agree with the basis to my rankings and these rankings are subject to change due to the potential of each current player adding to their legacy. In the video I clearly stated that if he's able to pull off a league MVP and Finals MVP this year that I feel he would have done enough to put him in the top 10. The fact that we have to respond to such nonsense only tells you that we are responding to fanboys who feel "slighted" because their favorite player who they live vicariously through isn't being worshiped to the standard that they have become accustomed to by the hype spitting media. End rant.

:oldlol: at this idiot. What makes you a historian of the game?
Because you spend majority of your days making biased youtube videos and think your opinions are facts??.......

I don't need to read your nonsense rankings to know about the history of the game and the legacies of the past greats.
I am well aware of both Kobe and Charle's career to say with CERTAINTY that is not only ridiculous to rank Charles over Kobe, but to have him ranked as low as 17.

And I find it hilarious how you label anyone that disagrees with some of the garbage you say, "fanboys".
Instead of tossing the word "fanboy" around, why don't you actually explain your reasoning for ranking Kobe that low.

[theoneneo]

:oldlol: at this idiot. What makes you a historian of the game?
Because you spend majority of your days making biased youtube videos and think your opinions are facts??.......

I don't need to read your nonsense rankings to know about the history of the game and the legacies of the past greats.
I am well aware of both Kobe and Charle's career to say with CERTAINTY that is not only ridiculous to rank Charles over Kobe, but to have him ranked as low as 17.

And I find it hilarious how you label anyone that disagrees with some of the garbage you say, "fanboys".
Instead of tossing the word "fanboy" around, why don't you actually explain your reasoning for ranking Kobe that low.
Wait, Didn't Charles Barkley Say Kobe is top 5 last week:roll:

Not even Barkley Agrees with Bruce

[chazzy]

@Charles Barkley over Kobe - It really just comes down to your personal preference regarding what you value when ranking/comparing players. It's not typical to see people rank a player above another who have significantly more team success, so that's why it could be seen as "outrageous." Some people value level of play and take into account circumstances a lot more than others. 17 is pretty damn low by any standard though.

@Blitz - I really doubt he wins the league MVP this year. It could only happen if the other teams/players don't play up to my expectations, and the Lakers have a good cushion over the teams with MVP candidates. I do think his efficiency will get better as the season progresses, but he shouldn't have to be as productive when Bynum gets back and Gasol stays healthy.

[BlueandGold]

Finally saw the whole video. lol @ some of the stuff he says in there.

"I need to do some more research and dig into his career. (On Jerry West)" (has West over Kobe in his all-time list)

" I dont even need to explain Robertson" (After having Robertson over Kobe in his all-time list and "pound for pound" list)

[1987_Lakers]

Kobe is already in the top 10.

[ginobli2311]

@Charles Barkley over Kobe - It really just comes down to your personal preference regarding what you value when ranking/comparing players. It's not typical to see people rank a player above another who have significantly more team success, so that's why it could be seen as "outrageous." Some people value level of play and take into account circumstances a lot more than others.

@Blitz - I really doubt he wins the league MVP this year. It could only happen if the other teams/players don't play up to my expectations, and the Lakers have a good cushion over the teams with MVP contenders. I do think his efficiency will get better as the season progresses, but he shouldn't have to be as productive when Bynum gets back and Gasol stays healthy.

this. the thing is though that kobe's level of play has been better than barkley's. and the team/playoff success puts him over the top easily.

kobe will not win mvp this year. his team is too good around him so gasol will steal a few votes and everyone is spoiled so we all expect the lakers to be amazing. howard and dirk look like the two guys to beat. i could see kobe or durant making a late run....but that is about it.

[bruceblitz]

:oldlol: at this idiot. What makes you a historian of the game?
Because you spend majority of your days making biased youtube videos and think your opinions are facts??.......

I don't need to read your nonsense rankings to know about the history of the game and the legacies of the past greats.
I am well aware of both Kobe and Charle's career to say with CERTAINTY that is not only ridiculous to rank Charles over Kobe, but to have him ranked as low as 17.

And I find it hilarious how you label anyone that disagrees with some of the garbage you say, "fanboys".
Instead of tossing the word "fanboy" around, why don't you actually explain your reasoning for ranking Kobe that low.


You are obviously a little slow, because if you actually read the post I provided, I explained IN THE POST.

http://hoopsapedia.webs.com/top50nbaplayers.htm

Secondly, you still aren't responding to the actual TOPIC which is

1: Does Kobe win the league MVP
2: Does Kobe win the Finals MVP

Simple, but yet you don't get it, so at this point I'll just put you on ignore.

[bruceblitz]

Barkley played with Hakeem and Clyde at the same time. I was young, but I did see him play and I watched the ESPN or whatever channel documentary about him. Of that era, he's one of my favorite players/personalities & we all read Round Mounds bolded posts.

In terms of consistency, his athleticism lacked it in terms of his conditioning & injuries added to that even more. Fortunately, his freakish genetics covered a lot of that up. On the same note, his attitude was inconsistent. You can knock Kobe & LeBron for the same thing but it's true.

If Jordan wasn't there (and when he actually wasn't) Barkley was heir apparent. That also doesn't address Karl Malone, who was spoon fed half his points from one of the GOAT pure point guards, and who also has no FMVP and shouldn't have gotten the regular season one over Jordan i.m.o.

Your All-Time list is way to 90's heavy to be considered a true historians list. Ask G.O.A.T. to finish his.

I don't mind you having an opinion, but don't dismiss me for having mine when you can't possibly know what my background is the same way I can't know yours. When you do that you eliminate the possibility of learning something from someone who isn't mainstream acknowledged, which you also dismiss already for being Kobe-jockers.

That right there tells me something about you, that it's impossible to know as much as you are saying when you aren't willing to listen. Who's good enough for you, really?

How can you talk about consistency and have the most consistent winner, Russell, under Wilt by like 5 places...

I'll point out your contradiction, and put you on ignore as well.

#1: you point out teammates certain players had, yet you talk about Bill Russell's "winning" without mentioning guys like John Havlicek and Bob Cousy.

End.

[The Iron Fist]

Do you think they even take the time to read each player's legacy? No
http://hoopsapedia.webs.com/top50nbaplayers.htm

This obsessive nature of these guys to have Kobe ranked above this player or that player on an all time list comes from a lack of knowledge about the history of the game. Really it doesn't bother me any more because I know tons of historians when it pertains to the game of professional basketball who are able to look at someone's individual career and put it in perspective when ranking other individual careers. When someone goes "5 rings" "81 points" or whatever, I just laugh at the post, comment, or video and move on because clearly the true historians of the game are few and far between and the ones who take exception with Kobe's ranking but do not even discuss other all time greats, well, they really aren't gonna influence my opinion anyways. I doubt they would influence yours as well. A bunch of kids who didn't even start understanding the game of basketball until a few years ago really don't matter anyways when it comes to validity of an all time list. The day someone like hoopsencyclopedia laughs at my list, and says I'm crazy, well at that point I'll know I'm off. At this point guys like hoops, and many others, agree with the basis to my rankings and these rankings are subject to change due to the potential of each current player adding to their legacy. In the video I clearly stated that if he's able to pull off a league MVP and Finals MVP this year that I feel he would have done enough to put him in the top 10. The fact that we have to respond to such nonsense only tells you that we are responding to fanboys who feel "slighted" because their favorite player who they live vicariously through isn't being worshiped to the standard that they have become accustomed to by the hype spitting media. End rant.

Since it appears as if you're calling yourself a historian on the game, because you surround yourself with so many,

surely you have Kareem as the goat.

Seeing as how, nobody in history dominated every single level of play like he did nor did anyone have an achievement filled career as long.

From the age of around 16 to 42,

he was a complete winner.

Surely, no basketball historian could bring up a better champion, because, well,

its documented in history.

Right?

And don't even try to fall back on that "I said professional basketball" shit either.

The history of basketball,

goes back further than just the pros. If it didn't, the Final Four wouldn't be such a big deal nor would the McDonalds All American.

[EarlTheGoat]

:oldlol: at this narcissistic individual trying to pass his opinions as "irrefutable" and "absolute" fact.



:lol

[Ruh-Roh]

I'll point out your contradiction, and put you on ignore as well.

#1: you point out teammates certain players had, yet you talk about Bill Russell's "winning" without mentioning guys like John Havlicek and Bob Cousy.

End.

That's the first time I think I've been ignored...am I famous? Jerry West & Elgin Baylor say hello.

edit - Gail Goodrich as well.

From Wilts own words...


"That team (the Celtics) wasn't so great until he got there. Once he got there, he (Bill Russell) was the piece that they were looking for. A lot of people have said to me, "Wilt, what if you had that team? Boy, you would never have lost!" NOT TRUE. If I was on their team, I would be taking away from some of what the other guys were doing. Everybody had a role on that team. (Tom) Heinsohn wouldn't be getting the same number of shots, nor would (Bill) Sharman, nor would (Bob) Cousy because I'd be shooting the ball a whole lot more. Bill Russell gave them just what they needed. I would've given them a little bit more in certain things, which I think would have made the team NOT AS GOOD. I've always believed that he made that team exactly what it was supposed to be. And you couldn't get any better."

- Wilt Chamberlain - third paragaraph from, Q: Can you talk more about Bill?

[The Iron Fist]

this. the thing is though that kobe's level of play has been better than barkley's. and the team/playoff success puts him over the top easily.

kobe will not win mvp this year. his team is too good around him so gasol will steal a few votes and everyone is spoiled so we all expect the lakers to be amazing. howard and dirk look like the two guys to beat. i could see kobe or durant making a late run....but that is about it.

That never hurt Magic, Bird or Jordan.

[bruceblitz]

Since it appears as if you're calling yourself a historian on the game, because you surround yourself with so many,

surely you have Kareem as the goat.

Seeing as how, nobody in history dominated every single level of play like he did nor did anyone have an achievement filled career as long.

From the age of around 16 to 42,

he was a complete winner.

Surely, no basketball historian could bring up a better champion, because, well,

its documented in history.

Right?

And don't even try to fall back on that "I said professional basketball" shit either.

The history of basketball,

goes back further than just the pros. If it didn't, the Final Four wouldn't be such a big deal nor would the McDonalds All American.

It's a top 50 NBA players list.

Secondly, yes I have that covered too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0j3CCEnSGE

Unlike 99.9% of the people on ISH I back up my opinions and don't piggy back on someone else's opinion calling them "wrong" or "stupid" or a "hater". You are responding to my thread, I'm not in yours. Remember that.

Again, I remember why I left ISH, because you people can't even stay on topic.

For the 4th or 5th time, the topic is

#1 does Kobe win the regular season MVP
#2 does Kobe win the Finals MVP

[ginobli2311]

That never hurt Magic, Bird or Jordan.

i was saying that in terms of his team is so good that it actually makes it harder for him to win mvp.

but to clarify. kobe doesn't play the game at the same level or impact as magic,bird, or jordan. that is the difference. and that is why kobe only has 1 mvp.

[Ruh-Roh]

It's a top 50 NBA players list.

Secondly, yes I have that covered too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0j3CCEnSGE

Unlike 99.9% of the people on ISH I back up my opinions and don't piggy back on someone else's opinion calling them "wrong" or "stupid" or a "hater". You are responding to my thread, I'm not in yours. Remember that.

Again, I remember why I left ISH, because you people can't even stay on topic.

For the 4th or 5th time, the topic is

#1 does Kobe win the regular season MVP
#2 does Kobe win the Finals MVP

#1 No, not even close
#2 If the Lakers win, but I have the Celtics taking it and Rondo potentially winning FMVP

[All Net]

I respect your opinion, but I just don't see them beating the other 3 of the top 4 teams in the league all in a row w/o home court. Any of those three can beat them if they have home court, imo. If the Lakers actually did beat all 3 in a row without home court, that would be arguably the most impressive title gained ever. Well, one of the hardest roads to a title anyway.

If Boston could win on the road in Cleveland and Orlando to make the finals thats more impressive. Maybe it's just me but yes Spurs and Dallas could beat L.A on any given night but in a series? I don't think it would be too impressive as I don't really consider Spurs or Dallas legit contenders yet and as the two time defending champs Lakers should beat them with or without homecourt in no less than 6 games.

Maybe if Spurs keep this up my opinion could change but Spurs nor Dallas concern me.

[MrJohnWall]

uhh Even Barkely would laugh if his kids try to tell him he was better then Kobe lol

[G-Funk]

Ruh-Roh and AirJordan&Magic just went to work on OP. He's so mad he's gonna put them on a ignore list? they are not even trolling...

[AirJordan&Magic]

You are obviously a little slow, because if you actually read the post I provided, I explained IN THE POST.

http://hoopsapedia.webs.com/top50nbaplayers.htm

Secondly, you still aren't responding to the actual TOPIC which is

1: Does Kobe win the league MVP
2: Does Kobe win the Finals MVP

Simple, but yet you don't get it, so at this point I'll just put you on ignore.

1. No, at this point, I see Dwight winning the mvp award.
2. Yes, very possible.

And I read that garbage and you didn't explain crap. What you did was write amazing things about the other legends and then just wrote mostly Kobe's flaws.
And you have the nerve to call yourself a basketball historian?? Well you are not a b.ball historian. What you are, is a biased clown.

[1987_Lakers]

He says he put Kobe @ 17 for being a bad teammate in the past as one reason yet he has Oscar Robertson at #8 who his teammates disliked. Oscar Robertson was not only considered bad teammate, but he led his team to only one 50+ win season as the #1 guy. This guy lacked team success, disliked by teammates, he put up inflated stats, yet he is 9 spots ahead of Kobe. And what is Jerry West doing ahead of Kobe? Kobe has more league MVP's, more championships, & he is breaking every record Jerry West set.

bruceblitz = blind idiot.

[The Iron Fist]

It's a top 50 NBA players list.

Secondly, yes I have that covered too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0j3CCEnSGE

Unlike 99.9% of the people on ISH I back up my opinions and don't piggy back on someone else's opinion calling them "wrong" or "stupid" or a "hater". You are responding to my thread, I'm not in yours. Remember that.

Again, I remember why I left ISH, because you people can't even stay on topic.

For the 4th or 5th time, the topic is

#1 does Kobe win the regular season MVP
#2 does Kobe win the Finals MVP


I just want to see you say yes,

you do have Kareem as the GOAT right?
Simple question, simple answer that doesn't require a 10 minute youtube video.

Yes or no?



btw, nice half bite on the thread I made the other day.

[bruceblitz]

I just want to see you say yes,

you do have Kareem as the GOAT right?
Simple question, simple answer that doesn't require a 10 minute youtube video.

Yes or no?
There is no such thing as a simple answer to a complex question. Watch the video.

[MrJohnWall]

Kareem is a much better player then Jordan. And has a much better resume.
Only blind Jordan homers think Jordan is the undisputed GOAT

[Ruh-Roh]

Ruh-Roh and AirJordan&Magic just went to work on OP. He's so mad he's gonna put them on a ignore list? they are not even trolling...

I was really surprised at that reaction too...I thought I presented a really good case, even quoting Wilt about Russell's teammates and listing HOF'ers he & Barkley played with...

[bruceblitz]

He says he put Kobe @ 17 for being a bad teammate in the past as one reason yet he has Oscar Robertson at #8 who his teammates disliked. Oscar Robertson was not only considered bad teammate, but he led his team to only one 50+ win season as the #1 guy. This guy lacked team success, disliked by teammates, he put up inflated stats, yet he is 9 spots ahead of Kobe. And what is Jerry West doing ahead of Kobe? Kobe has more league MVP's, more championships, & he is breaking every record Jerry West set.

bruceblitz = blind idiot.

The bolded word is what you are really here for. You aren't in this thread to discuss basketball, only to show us how you enjoy vicarious living.

[bruceblitz]

Kareem is a much better player then Jordan. And has a much better resume.
Only blind Jordan homers think Jordan is the undisputed GOAT
Hmmm, you do such a great job posting such a complex comparison.

I think I did much better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0j3CCEnSGE

[bruceblitz]

I just want to see you say yes,

you do have Kareem as the GOAT right?
Simple question, simple answer that doesn't require a 10 minute youtube video.

Yes or no?



btw, nice half bite on the thread I made the other day.
I haven't looked at ISH in months by the way.

[MrJohnWall]

Hmmm, you do such a great job posting such a complex comparison.

I think I did much better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0j3CCEnSGE
Jordan in his 14th year = scrub and cant even make the playoffs in the east

Kareem in his 18th year= NBA champion

[The Iron Fist]

There is no such thing as a simple answer to a complex question. Watch the video.

3 time NYC HS champion 79-2 record.

3 time NCAA champion 88-2 in that span, 2x player of the year, 3 time all american, 3 time Most Outstanding Player of Tourny, first CPOY. Even led his frosh team to a victory over the #1 ranked varsity team as freshmen weren't allowed to play on the varsity squad.

6 time NBA champion, 6 time MVP 2 time FMVP.



Is he the GOAT, yes or no?

[The Iron Fist]

I haven't looked at ISH in months by the way.


and you're not emotionally biased either.

[chazzy]

^He said no already and has a video explaining why, I'm not sure what else you want :oldlol:

[bruceblitz]

3 time NYC HS champion 79-2 record.

3 time NCAA champion 88-2 in that span, 2x player of the year, 3 time all american, 3 time Most Outstanding Player of Tourny, first CPOY. Even led his frosh team to a victory over the #1 ranked varsity team as freshmen weren't allowed to play on the varsity squad.

6 time NBA champion, 6 time MVP 2 time FMVP.



Is he the GOAT, yes or no?
High school and college years included, yes Kareem was the better player. As a professional, Jordan gets the nod.

[MrJohnWall]

High school and college years included, yes Kareem was the better player. As a professional, Jordan gets the nod.
stop it the Kareem is GOAT

and Jordan is just GNBAPOAT :oldlol:

[ginobli2311]

Jordan in his 14th year = scrub and cant even make the playoffs in the east

Kareem in his 18th year= NBA champion

this speaks more to career ranking. not player ranking.

when i rank players i take the 12 best years of their careers because that is the best time frame to really see how great a player was in terms of level of play and impact.

i have no problem with someone saying kareem was the best ever. i disagree...but i understand it. but i don't think we should talk much about jordan at age 39 on the wizards.

what if jordan played with the same great talent that kareem got on the lakers?
what if jordan never retired?

i could go on and on.

[The Iron Fist]

High school and college years included, yes Kareem was the better player. As a professional, Jordan gets the nod.


But history dictates that basketball history goes beyond one level.


Why are you trying to break up history into fragments now?

[G-Funk]

You leave out fg%. When looking at how good a player is you MUST look at their missed shots and consistency.

For instance when Kobe Bryant "passed" Jerry West, how many people really took a long look at it like this?
http://hoopsapedia.webs.com/the10000nbaclub.htm

Once again, I know that most people don't "get it", so on that note I'd like to give andgar923 a big shout out because he does.

I'm gonna leave this thread alone at this point because it's not even on topic any more. The questions are simple, will Kobe win the league MVP and Finals MVP this year, yes or no?




I'm not sure If you a hater or not, hopefully ur not and take this with an open mind.

If both Kobe and Jordan both shot 19 or 23 shots per game and Jordan shot 50%ppg and Kobe shot 46%ppg. How many more shots did Jordan make over Kobe per game???

BTW I think it's too earyl to tell if he will win an MVP. I still think that he does have a shot at a ring...

Also how would you rank him if he wins 2 more FMVP.


7 Championships
4 Finals MVP

[Rose]

Kobe at 17. Bronzy in the top 20. What a joke. Come on. a guy that's won2MVPs, and is more famous for choking than winning is top 20 already?

[The Iron Fist]

this speaks more to career ranking. not player ranking.

when i rank players i take the 12 best years of their careers because that is the best time frame to really see how great a player was in terms of level of play and impact.

i have no problem with someone saying kareem was the best ever. i disagree...but i understand it. but i don't think we should talk much about jordan at age 39 on the wizards.

what if jordan played with the same great talent that kareem got on the lakers?
what if jordan never retired?

i could go on and on.


I could go on and on too.

What if, blocks were recorded since the inception of the NBA?
What if, Kareem with the Bucks played with the same great talent that Jordan had on the Bulls during the second run?
What if, Kareem had ESPN, Nike, Hanes, Fruit of the Loom, NBC, and basketball on tv that wasn't tape delayed?

[The Iron Fist]

^He said no already and has a video explaining why, I'm not sure what else you want :oldlol:


No need to watch a video. He can easily say what his answer on the video is.

[ginobli2311]

I'm not sure If you a hater or not, hopefully ur not and take this with an open mind.

If both Kobe and Jordan both shot 19 or 23 shots per game and Jordan shot 50%ppg and Kobe shot 46%ppg. How many more shots did Jordan make over Kobe per game???

BTW I think it's too earyl to tell if he will win an MVP. I still think that he does have a shot at a ring...

Also how would you rank him if he wins 2 more FMVP.


7 Championships
4 Finals MVP


the difference in one shot a game over a career is huge and could be huge for winning/losing in the playoffs.

so basically you are saying that iverson was a better scorer than kobe. if efficiency doesn't matter much than iverson was a deadlier scorer than kobe for sure. iverson was also a better passer as well.

efficiency is huge.

[Doranku]

i was saying that in terms of his team is so good that it actually makes it harder for him to win mvp.

but to clarify. kobe doesn't play the game at the same level or impact as magic,bird, or jordan. that is the difference. and that is why kobe only has 1 mvp.

I guess that means Steve Nash plays the game at a higher level than Kobe or Shaq ever did. :facepalm

[bruceblitz]

and you're not emotionally biased either.
No I'm not. I love the game of basketball. Someone who posts anything on the internet based on emotions doesn't put this type of detail into anything:

http://hoopsapedia.webs.com/top50nbaplayers.htm
http://hoopsapedia.webs.com/nbahandchecking.htm
http://hoopsapedia.webs.com/bestnbadefenseever.htm
http://hoopsapedia.webs.com/thenbazoneera.htm
http://www.youtube.com/user/thekobebryantblitz
http://www.youtube.com/user/LEBRONMVPJAMES6
http://www.youtube.com/user/theblitzchannel
http://www.youtube.com/user/mustseebbtv
http://www.youtube.com/user/theAIRJORDANblitz
http://www.youtube.com/user/thedwyanewadeblitz
http://www.youtube.com/user/theDerrickRoseBlitz

For the last 5+ years I've done nothing but give give give to the basketball community when it pertains to time doing research, time sharing gained knowledge, or time sharing footage. This stigma that follows me around, and usually it comes via fanboys wearing #24 jerseys, well it gets old. So you guys can say what you want, think you are better than me, that I'm just some nobody who "hates Kobe" or "hates current players" or "has his face on Jordan's dick", or whatever you want, it really doesn't phase me because current and ex-NBA players communicate with me, guys I consider real historians like NBA Jerry, Hoopsencyclopedia, and many many others support what I've done for the basketball community. So when guys on ISH go all "message board" on me, it's cool, because you have no idea how much fun it's been for me personally to be such an integral part of the online basketball community.

I just wanted to see if you guys thought Kobe Bryant would be the league MVP and Finals MVP this year, it's as simple as that. The fact that this thread has turned into one huge steamy pile of shit because of some over zealous narcissistic egomaniacs and fanboys, well that's cool. You can hate me now, but I wont stop now. Well I wont stop on Youtube or with my websites but I will stop posting on ISH again for a while because this is extremely annoying to read comments from people who don't back up their opinions, cherry pick facts, and basically rub one off for Kobe's black mamba.

Have a good day, I hope one day some of you get it. I'm out again..... for a long time..... this website is a huge waste of my time when people don't even ATTEMPT to learn the history of the game. Take your emotions and preconceived notions out of it and learn how to grade INDIVIDUAL players, not team success, not flashes of brilliance, but consistency...accuracy...and sustained domination.... peace.

[Rose]

That's the first time I think I've been ignored...am I famous? Jerry West & Elgin Baylor say hello.

edit - Gail Goodrich as well.

From Wilts own words...

Quote:
"That team (the Celtics) wasn't so great until he got there. Once he got there, he (Bill Russell) was the piece that they were looking for. A lot of people have said to me, "Wilt, what if you had that team? Boy, you would never have lost!" NOT TRUE. If I was on their team, I would be taking away from some of what the other guys were doing. Everybody had a role on that team. (Tom) Heinsohn wouldn't be getting the same number of shots, nor would (Bill) Sharman, nor would (Bob) Cousy because I'd be shooting the ball a whole lot more. Bill Russell gave them just what they needed. I would've given them a little bit more in certain things, which I think would have made the team NOT AS GOOD. I've always believed that he made that team exactly what it was supposed to be. And you couldn't get any better."

- Wilt Chamberlain - third paragaraph from, Q: Can you talk more about Bill?


Well said.

[ginobli2311]

I could go on and on too.

What if, blocks were recorded since the inception of the NBA?
What if, Kareem with the Bucks played with the same great talent that Jordan had on the Bulls during the second run?
What if, Kareem had ESPN, Nike, Hanes, Fruit of the Loom, NBC, and basketball on tv that wasn't tape delayed?

LOL

here is your problem. i am sitting here saying that its very close and i have no problem with someone ranking kareem first. hell....i have no problem with someone ranking magic or russell first.

its very very close in my opinion.

you are saying its not close and that its clearly kareem. that is simply false. that is why we can't take anything you say seriously.

[Disaprine]

classic bruce is classic. :roll:
and to answer your thread, kobe isn't winning the MVP. but iam seeing him winning his 3rd straight ring and his 3rd straight finals MVP, further cementing himself in the top 10.

[Ruh-Roh]

I want credit for running bruceblitz out, even though it was an accident. It just sounds cool.

You are way, way too sensitive and close-minded, my fellow Chicagoan. Who goes to a forum if you don't want to hear another opinion? You might as well talk to the mirror.

[bruceblitz]

I'm not sure If you a hater or not, hopefully ur not and take this with an open mind.

If both Kobe and Jordan both shot 19 or 23 shots per game and Jordan shot 50%ppg and Kobe shot 46%ppg. How many more shots did Jordan make over Kobe per game???

BTW I think it's too earyl to tell if he will win an MVP. I still think that he does have a shot at a ring...

Also how would you rank him if he wins 2 more FMVP.


7 Championships
4 Finals MVP

Unfortunately, or fortunately, a player's field goal percentage doesn't mean that said player will miss or make the exact same amount of shots every game, in fact it looks like this when you break down a 4-5% difference in field goal percentage:

(As of the end of the 2009-2010 season)
Regular season
Seasons under 50% shooting
Kobe Bryant: 14
Michael Jordan: 9

Seasons under 48% shooting:
Kobe Bryant: 14
Michael Jordan: 5

Seasons over 50% shooting:
Kobe Bryant: 0
Michael Jordan: 6

Seasons over 52% shooting:
Kobe Bryant: 0
Michael Jordan: 4

Regular season
Games with under 50% shooting
Michael Jordan: 489
Kobe Bryant: 623

Regular season
Games with under 48% shooting
Michael Jordan: 458
Kobe Bryant: 599

Regular season
Games with under 46% shooting
Michael Jordan: 388
Kobe Bryant: 530

Regular season
Games with under 44% shooting
Michael Jordan: 296
Kobe Bryant: 452

Regular season
Games with under 42% shooting
Michael Jordan: 234
Kobe Bryant: 393

Regular season
Games with under 40% shooting
Michael Jordan: 158
Kobe Bryant: 317

Regular season
Games with under 35% shooting
Michael Jordan: 88
Kobe Bryant: 192

Regular season
Games with under 30% shooting
Michael Jordan: 41
Kobe Bryant: 97

Regular season
Games with 60% or better shooting
Michael "Air" Jordan: 173
Kobe "Bean" Bryant: 123

Regular season
Games with 50% or better shooting
Michael "Air" Jordan: 556
Kobe "Bean" Bryant: 393

Regular season
Games with 20 shots made on 60% or better shooting
MJ: 16
Kobe: 3

Regular season
Games with 40 points and under 50% shooting
MJ: 29
Kobe: 43
Yes, that's right, almost half of Kobe's 40 point games involved missing more shots than made ones.

Regular season
50 point games with under 50% shooting
Michael Jordan: 1 of his 31 games (15-31, 48%)
Kobe Bryant: 6 of his 24 games

Regular season
50 point games with under 45% shooting
Michael Jordan: 0
Kobe Bryant: 3

NBA Playoff runs under 50% shooting:
Kobe: 13 (every year)
MJ: 8

NBA Playoff runs over 50% shooting:
Kobe Bryant: 0 (never)
Michael Jordan: 5

NBA Playoff runs under 48% shooting:
Kobe Bryant: 12
Michael Jordan: 6

NBA Playoff runs over 48% shooting:
Kobe Bryant: 1
Michael Jordan: 7

NBA Playoff runs under 46% shooting:
Kobe Bryant: 9
Michael Jordan: 3

NBA Playoff runs under 44% shooting:
Kobe Bryant: 6
Michael Jordan: 2


When I compare players I do it from a complex standpoint, with many different variables, and I don't have time for these childish amateurish responses from people on ISH, so like I said, I'm out, and consider that my last post..... (I posted this so you can see WHY I get so frustrated due to the lengths I go to when comparing players in contrast with the lack of actual objective proof and evidence people use on here....)


Guys, nothing personal, I just don't have time for this.... have a good day!

[ginobli2311]

I guess that means Steve Nash plays the game at a higher level than Kobe or Shaq ever did. :facepalm

did i say that? nope.

kobe only has 1 mvp because he hasn't dominated like most of the all time greats with multiple mvps have. kobe is better than nash. i said nothing about nash.

kobe has 1 mvp because he's never separated himself from the competition the way the ultra elite like magic/kareem/bird/russell/wilt/jordan/duncan all did.

has nothing to do with nash.

[ginobli2311]

Unfortunately, or fortunately, a player's field goal percentage doesn't mean that said player will miss or make the exact same amount of shots every game, in fact it looks like this when you break down a 4-5% difference in field goal percentage:

(As of the end of the 2009-2010 season)
Regular season
Seasons under 50% shooting
Kobe Bryant: 14
Michael Jordan: 9

Seasons under 48% shooting:
Kobe Bryant: 14
Michael Jordan: 5

Seasons over 50% shooting:
Kobe Bryant: 0
Michael Jordan: 6

Seasons over 52% shooting:
Kobe Bryant: 0
Michael Jordan: 4

Regular season
Games with under 50% shooting
Michael Jordan: 489
Kobe Bryant: 623

Regular season
Games with under 48% shooting
Michael Jordan: 458
Kobe Bryant: 599

Regular season
Games with under 46% shooting
Michael Jordan: 388
Kobe Bryant: 530

Regular season
Games with under 44% shooting
Michael Jordan: 296
Kobe Bryant: 452

Regular season
Games with under 42% shooting
Michael Jordan: 234
Kobe Bryant: 393

Regular season
Games with under 40% shooting
Michael Jordan: 158
Kobe Bryant: 317

Regular season
Games with under 35% shooting
Michael Jordan: 88
Kobe Bryant: 192

Regular season
Games with under 30% shooting
Michael Jordan: 41
Kobe Bryant: 97

Regular season
Games with 60% or better shooting
Michael "Air" Jordan: 173
Kobe "Bean" Bryant: 123

Regular season
Games with 50% or better shooting
Michael "Air" Jordan: 556
Kobe "Bean" Bryant: 393

Regular season
Games with 20 shots made on 60% or better shooting
MJ: 16
Kobe: 3

Regular season
Games with 40 points and under 50% shooting
MJ: 29
Kobe: 43
Yes, that's right, almost half of Kobe's 40 point games involved missing more shots than made ones.

Regular season
50 point games with under 50% shooting
Michael Jordan: 1 of his 31 games (15-31, 48%)
Kobe Bryant: 6 of his 24 games

Regular season
50 point games with under 45% shooting
Michael Jordan: 0
Kobe Bryant: 3

NBA Playoff runs under 50% shooting:
Kobe: 13 (every year)
MJ: 8

NBA Playoff runs over 50% shooting:
Kobe Bryant: 0 (never)
Michael Jordan: 5

NBA Playoff runs under 48% shooting:
Kobe Bryant: 12
Michael Jordan: 6

NBA Playoff runs over 48% shooting:
Kobe Bryant: 1
Michael Jordan: 7

NBA Playoff runs under 46% shooting:
Kobe Bryant: 9
Michael Jordan: 3

NBA Playoff runs under 44% shooting:
Kobe Bryant: 6
Michael Jordan: 2


When I compare players I do it from a complex standpoint, with many different variables, and I don't have time for these childish amateurish responses from people on ISH, so like I said, I'm out, and consider that my last post..... (I posted this so you can see WHY I get so frustrated due to the lengths I go to when comparing players in contrast with the lack of actual objective proof and evidence people use on here....)


Guys, nothing personal, I just don't have time for this.... have a good day!

great post. wish you would stay. i don't always agree with you...but you back things up (like i try to do)

good luck mate.

[The Iron Fist]

LOL

here is your problem. i am sitting here saying that its very close and i have no problem with someone ranking kareem first. hell....i have no problem with someone ranking magic or russell first.

its very very close in my opinion.

you are saying its not close and that its clearly kareem. that is simply false. that is why we can't take anything you say seriously.

Where did I say its not close?

and whats this "we" shit?

You speak for one person as do I.

[Ne 1]

THE GREATNESS OF KOBE "BEAN" BRYANT!!!

5x NBA CHAMPION
(2000, 2001, 2002, 2009, 2010)

2x NBA FINALS MVP
(2009, 2010)

NBA MOST VALUABLE PLAYER
(2008)

12x NBA ALL-STAR
(1998, 2000-2010)

8x ALL-NBA FIRST TEAM
(2002-2004, 2006-2010)

2x ALL-NBA SECOND TEAM
(2000, 2001)

2x ALL-NBA THIRD TEAM
(1999, 2005)

11 TOTAL ALL-NBA TEAMS

8x ALL-DEFENSIVE FIRST TEAM
(2000, 2003-2004, 2006-2010)

2x ALL-DEFENSIVE SECOND TEAM
(2001-2002)

10 TOTAL ALL-DEFENSIVE TEAM......TIED FOR MOST OF ALL-TIME BY A GUARD

NBA ALL-ROOKIE SECOND TEAM
(1997)

NBA SLAM DUNK CHAMPION
(1997)

NAISMITH PREP PLAYER OF THE YEAR
(1996)

Total Career Points- 26319

Career Averages as a starter- 27.2 ppg 5.7rpg 5.4apg

SCORING RAMPAGE
81pts in a game
62pts in three quarters
42pts in 1st half
55pts in 2nd half
30pts in one quarter
12 threes in one game
9 threes without a miss in a game
8 threes in one half
9 straight games with 40pts+
4 straight games with 50pts+
27 games with 40pts+ in a season
10 games with 50pts+ in a season
4th player ever with a 35pt+ season average
5th player ever with a 2800pt+ season
1st player ever to outscore a team through 3 quarters
1st player ever with a 2800pt 180 three season

THE 50+PT GAMES:

Kobe-51pts 8ast 7reb vd GSW 99-00
Kobe-56pts 5ast 4reb vs Mem 00-01
Kobe-51pts 2ast 2reb vs Den 02-03
Kobe-52pts 7ast 8reb vs Hou 02-03
Kobe-55pts 3ast 5reb vs Was 02-03
Kobe-62pts 0ast 8reb vs Dal 05-06
Kobe-50pts 8ast 8reb vs Lac 05-06
Kobe-51pts 4ast 9reb vs Sac 05-06
Kobe-81pts 2ast 5reb vs Tor 05-06
Kobe-51pts 3ast 5reb vs Pho 05-06
Kobe-50pts 1ast 6reb vs Por 05-06
Kobe-50pts 5ast 8reb vs Pho 05-06
Kobe-52pts 4ast 4reb vs UTA 06-07
Kobe-53pts 8ast 10reb vs Hou 06-07
Kobe-58pts 4ast 5reb vs Cha 06-07
Kobe-65pts 3ast 7reb vs Por 06-07
Kobe-50pts 6ast 5reb vs Min 06-07
Kobe-60pts 5ast 3reb vs Mem 06-07
Kobe-50pts 7ast 6reb vs NO 06-07
Kobe-53pts 2ast 2reb vs Hou 06-07
Kobe-50pts ast 9reb vs Lac 06-07
Kobe-50pts 3ast 8reb vs Sea 06-07
Kobe-52pts 4ast 11reb vs Dal 07-08
Kobe-53pts ast 7reb vs Mem 07-08
Kobe-61pts 3ast 0reb vs Nyk 08-09


KILLER INSTINCT....
List of Kobe's notable game-winners:

1) 05/09/99 - Lakers 101, Rockets 100 (playoffs, game-winning FTs with 5.3 seconds remaining)
2) 12/27/99 - Lakers 108, Mavericks 106 (game-winning FTs)
3) 05/10/00 - Lakers 97, Phoenix 96 (playoffs, jumper over Jason Kidd)
4) 11/16/00 - Lakers 112, Kings 110 (game-tying three for OT, OT jumper for win)
5) 02/07/01 - Lakers 85, Phoenix 83 (jumper with 2.7 seconds remaining)
6) 02/13/01 - Lakers 113, Nets 110 (OT game-winning layup with the And-1)
7) 01/02/02 - Lakers 87, Nuggets 86 (offensive reb and jumper)
8) 02/22/02 - Lakers 96, Hornets 94 (first career buzzer-beater, jumper)
9) 03/24/02 - Lakers 97, Kings 96 (fade-away jumper, 36 seconds remaining)
10) 05/12/02 - Lakers 87, Spurs 85 (playoffs, offensive rebound and put-back)
11) 12/06/02 - Lakers 105, Mavericks 103 (28-point game comeback, spin-around jumper)
12) 04/04/03 - Lakers 102, Grizzlies 101 (buzzer-beater, jumper)
13) 04/06/03 - Lakers 115, Suns 113 (GW jumper with 28.6 seconds remaining)
14) 12/19/03 - Lakers 101, Nuggets 99 (game after the trial, buzzer-beating fade-away)
15) 02/17/04 - Lakers 89, Blazers 86 (layup and the foul)
16) 03/21/04 - Lakers 104, Bucks 103 (OT jumper with 25 seconds remaining)
17) 04/14/04 - Lakers 105, Blazers 104 (game-tying three for OT, OT GW buzzer-beating three)
18) 03/13/05 - Lakers 117, Bobcats 116 (pump fake jumper for the win)
19) 11/02/05 - Lakers 99, Nuggets 97 (OT jumper after the Kwame brick)
20) 12/04/05 - Lakers 99, Bobcats 98 (game-winning FTs)
21) 01/12/06 - Lakers 99, Cavaliers 98 (jumper against Lebron with 8 seconds to go)
22) 04/30/06 - Lakers 99, Suns 98 (playoffs, game-tying tear drop for OT, and OT game-winning jumper)
23) 01/14/08 - Lakers 123, Sonics 121 (OT game-winning jumper)
24) 01/09/09 - Lakers 121, Pacers 119 (jumper against Jarrett Jack with 3 seconds to go)
25) 12/04/09 - Lakers 108, Heat 107 (game-winning buzzer-beating three over Wade)
26) 12/16/09 - Lakers 107, Bucks 106 (game-winning buzzer-beating jumper over Bell)
27) 01/01/10 - Lakers 109, Kings 108 (game-winning buzzer-beating three, 4.1 seconds left and 0.1 remaining)
28) 01/13/10 - Lakers 100, Mavericks 95 (game-winning jumper with 28.9 seconds remaining)
29) 01/31/10 - Lakers 90, Celtics 89 (game-winning jumper with 7 secs remaining)
30) 02/23/10 - Lakers 99, Grizzlies 98 (game-winning jumper with 4.3 seconds remaining)
31) 03/10/10 - Lakers 109, Raptors 107 (game-winning fade-away with 1.9 seconds remaining)

Can't forget:
-13 straight games with 35+ points

-4 straight games with 45+ points (separate streak)

-The 56 against Memphis was also through 3 quarters. The 61 against New York in 37 min. Only player in NBA history to drop 60+ twice in under 40 minutes played. :bowdown:

TOTAL CAREER PLAYOFF POINTS LIST TOP 10:

1.Michael Jordan* 5987
2.Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 5762
3.Shaquille O'Neal 5121
4.Kobe Bryant* 5052
5.Karl Malone 4761
6.Jerry West* 4457
7.Larry Bird* 3897
8.John Havlicek* 3776
9.Hakeem Olajuwon* 3755
10.Tim Duncan 3724

Keep arguing your agenda bull sh*t all you want. I'll just just put auto shutdown on that sh!t....No need for a Pic of Ether...*


Why keep trying to bring up agenda BS? Is it because:



http://i28.tinypic.com/6h0p78.jpg

[amfirst]

Percentage doesn't mean anything when a player doesn't care for it. Kobe doesn't care for shooting percentage.

That's the reason why he takes such difficult shots, but what people don't realize is that he take those shots in the regular season to prepare for the playoffs. Then he starts to take better shots, and if need be he had enough practice with tough shots in the regular season to use it in the playoffs when the game is on the line.

It's like a video game. U practice a more difficult strategy so u would be prepare for when the game really matters. If u go the easy route than u would get blindsided against someone better than u.

[ginobli2311]

Where did I say its not close?

and whats this "we" shit?

You speak for one person as do I.

you are implying its not close by saying that kareem is the only choice for GOAT and hammering blitz for not having kareem first all time.

how is that not saying is not close? it doesn't make sense.

[EarlTheGoat]

Typical insecure narcissistic self-centered behaviour.

Anybody dare to disagree with what I said (because what I say is gospel and cant be questioned) ? I put him on ignore.

[The Iron Fist]

No I'm not. I love the game of basketball. Someone who posts anything on the internet based on emotions doesn't put this type of detail into anything:

http://hoopsapedia.webs.com/top50nbaplayers.htm
http://hoopsapedia.webs.com/nbahandchecking.htm
http://hoopsapedia.webs.com/bestnbadefenseever.htm
http://hoopsapedia.webs.com/thenbazoneera.htm
http://www.youtube.com/user/thekobebryantblitz
http://www.youtube.com/user/LEBRONMVPJAMES6
http://www.youtube.com/user/theblitzchannel
http://www.youtube.com/user/mustseebbtv
http://www.youtube.com/user/theAIRJORDANblitz
http://www.youtube.com/user/thedwyanewadeblitz
http://www.youtube.com/user/theDerrickRoseBlitz

For the last 5+ years I've done nothing but give give give to the basketball community when it pertains to time doing research, time sharing gained knowledge, or time sharing footage. This stigma that follows me around, and usually it comes via fanboys wearing #24 jerseys, well it gets old. So you guys can say what you want, think you are better than me, that I'm just some nobody who "hates Kobe" or "hates current players" or "has his face on Jordan's dick", or whatever you want, it really doesn't phase me because current and ex-NBA players communicate with me, guys I consider real historians like NBA Jerry, Hoopsencyclopedia, and many many others support what I've done for the basketball community. So when guys on ISH go all "message board" on me, it's cool, because you have no idea how much fun it's been for me personally to be such an integral part of the online basketball community.

I just wanted to see if you guys thought Kobe Bryant would be the league MVP and Finals MVP this year, it's as simple as that. The fact that this thread has turned into one huge steamy pile of shit because of some over zealous narcissistic egomaniacs and fanboys, well that's cool. You can hate me now, but I wont stop now. Well I wont stop on Youtube or with my websites but I will stop posting on ISH again for a while because this is extremely annoying to read comments from people who don't back up their opinions, cherry pick facts, and basically rub one off for Kobe's black mamba.

Have a good day, I hope one day some of you get it. I'm out again..... for a long time..... this website is a huge waste of my time when people don't even ATTEMPT to learn the history of the game. Take your emotions and preconceived notions out of it and learn how to grade INDIVIDUAL players, not team success, not flashes of brilliance, but consistency...accuracy...and sustained domination.... peace.


You're failure to answer whether or not, Kareem is the GOAT,

is telling enough to conclude that you don't think he is.

So much for "history" eh?

I guess it only matters when you want it to matter.

[ginobli2311]

Percentage doesn't mean anything when a player doesn't care for it. Kobe doesn't care for shooting percentage.

That's the reason why he takes such difficult shots, but what people don't realize is that he take those shots in the regular season to prepare for the playoffs. Then he starts to take better shots, and if need be he had enough practice with tough shots in the regular season to use it in the playoffs when the game is on the line.

cough...nba finals....cough

he takes the worst shots ever on the biggest stage and rarely makes them.

christ. just admit that he plays very poor on the biggest stage for an all time great. its a fact. 7 trips to the finals and he shoots 41%. thats laughable. beyond bad for an all time great.

[MrJohnWall]

THE GREATNESS OF KOBE "BEAN" BRYANT!!!

5x NBA CHAMPION
(2000, 2001, 2002, 2009, 2010)

2x NBA FINALS MVP
(2009, 2010)

NBA MOST VALUABLE PLAYER
(2008)

12x NBA ALL-STAR
(1998, 2000-2010)

8x ALL-NBA FIRST TEAM
(2002-2004, 2006-2010)

2x ALL-NBA SECOND TEAM
(2000, 2001)

2x ALL-NBA THIRD TEAM
(1999, 2005)

11 TOTAL ALL-NBA TEAMS

8x ALL-DEFENSIVE FIRST TEAM
(2000, 2003-2004, 2006-2010)

2x ALL-DEFENSIVE SECOND TEAM
(2001-2002)

10 TOTAL ALL-DEFENSIVE TEAM......TIED FOR MOST OF ALL-TIME BY A GUARD

NBA ALL-ROOKIE SECOND TEAM
(1997)

NBA SLAM DUNK CHAMPION
(1997)

NAISMITH PREP PLAYER OF THE YEAR
(1996)

Total Career Points- 26319

Career Averages as a starter- 27.2 ppg 5.7rpg 5.4apg

SCORING RAMPAGE
81pts in a game
62pts in three quarters
42pts in 1st half
55pts in 2nd half
30pts in one quarter
12 threes in one game
9 threes without a miss in a game
8 threes in one half
9 straight games with 40pts+
4 straight games with 50pts+
27 games with 40pts+ in a season
10 games with 50pts+ in a season
4th player ever with a 35pt+ season average
5th player ever with a 2800pt+ season
1st player ever to outscore a team through 3 quarters
1st player ever with a 2800pt 180 three season

THE 50+PT GAMES:

Kobe-51pts 8ast 7reb vd GSW 99-00
Kobe-56pts 5ast 4reb vs Mem 00-01
Kobe-51pts 2ast 2reb vs Den 02-03
Kobe-52pts 7ast 8reb vs Hou 02-03
Kobe-55pts 3ast 5reb vs Was 02-03
Kobe-62pts 0ast 8reb vs Dal 05-06
Kobe-50pts 8ast 8reb vs Lac 05-06
Kobe-51pts 4ast 9reb vs Sac 05-06
Kobe-81pts 2ast 5reb vs Tor 05-06
Kobe-51pts 3ast 5reb vs Pho 05-06
Kobe-50pts 1ast 6reb vs Por 05-06
Kobe-50pts 5ast 8reb vs Pho 05-06
Kobe-52pts 4ast 4reb vs UTA 06-07
Kobe-53pts 8ast 10reb vs Hou 06-07
Kobe-58pts 4ast 5reb vs Cha 06-07
Kobe-65pts 3ast 7reb vs Por 06-07
Kobe-50pts 6ast 5reb vs Min 06-07
Kobe-60pts 5ast 3reb vs Mem 06-07
Kobe-50pts 7ast 6reb vs NO 06-07
Kobe-53pts 2ast 2reb vs Hou 06-07
Kobe-50pts ast 9reb vs Lac 06-07
Kobe-50pts 3ast 8reb vs Sea 06-07
Kobe-52pts 4ast 11reb vs Dal 07-08
Kobe-53pts ast 7reb vs Mem 07-08
Kobe-61pts 3ast 0reb vs Nyk 08-09


KILLER INSTINCT....
List of Kobe's notable game-winners:

1) 05/09/99 - Lakers 101, Rockets 100 (playoffs, game-winning FTs with 5.3 seconds remaining)
2) 12/27/99 - Lakers 108, Mavericks 106 (game-winning FTs)
3) 05/10/00 - Lakers 97, Phoenix 96 (playoffs, jumper over Jason Kidd)
4) 11/16/00 - Lakers 112, Kings 110 (game-tying three for OT, OT jumper for win)
5) 02/07/01 - Lakers 85, Phoenix 83 (jumper with 2.7 seconds remaining)
6) 02/13/01 - Lakers 113, Nets 110 (OT game-winning layup with the And-1)
7) 01/02/02 - Lakers 87, Nuggets 86 (offensive reb and jumper)
8) 02/22/02 - Lakers 96, Hornets 94 (first career buzzer-beater, jumper)
9) 03/24/02 - Lakers 97, Kings 96 (fade-away jumper, 36 seconds remaining)
10) 05/12/02 - Lakers 87, Spurs 85 (playoffs, offensive rebound and put-back)
11) 12/06/02 - Lakers 105, Mavericks 103 (28-point game comeback, spin-around jumper)
12) 04/04/03 - Lakers 102, Grizzlies 101 (buzzer-beater, jumper)
13) 04/06/03 - Lakers 115, Suns 113 (GW jumper with 28.6 seconds remaining)
14) 12/19/03 - Lakers 101, Nuggets 99 (game after the trial, buzzer-beating fade-away)
15) 02/17/04 - Lakers 89, Blazers 86 (layup and the foul)
16) 03/21/04 - Lakers 104, Bucks 103 (OT jumper with 25 seconds remaining)
17) 04/14/04 - Lakers 105, Blazers 104 (game-tying three for OT, OT GW buzzer-beating three)
18) 03/13/05 - Lakers 117, Bobcats 116 (pump fake jumper for the win)
19) 11/02/05 - Lakers 99, Nuggets 97 (OT jumper after the Kwame brick)
20) 12/04/05 - Lakers 99, Bobcats 98 (game-winning FTs)
21) 01/12/06 - Lakers 99, Cavaliers 98 (jumper against Lebron with 8 seconds to go)
22) 04/30/06 - Lakers 99, Suns 98 (playoffs, game-tying tear drop for OT, and OT game-winning jumper)
23) 01/14/08 - Lakers 123, Sonics 121 (OT game-winning jumper)
24) 01/09/09 - Lakers 121, Pacers 119 (jumper against Jarrett Jack with 3 seconds to go)
25) 12/04/09 - Lakers 108, Heat 107 (game-winning buzzer-beating three over Wade)
26) 12/16/09 - Lakers 107, Bucks 106 (game-winning buzzer-beating jumper over Bell)
27) 01/01/10 - Lakers 109, Kings 108 (game-winning buzzer-beating three, 4.1 seconds left and 0.1 remaining)
28) 01/13/10 - Lakers 100, Mavericks 95 (game-winning jumper with 28.9 seconds remaining)
29) 01/31/10 - Lakers 90, Celtics 89 (game-winning jumper with 7 secs remaining)
30) 02/23/10 - Lakers 99, Grizzlies 98 (game-winning jumper with 4.3 seconds remaining)
31) 03/10/10 - Lakers 109, Raptors 107 (game-winning fade-away with 1.9 seconds remaining)

Can't forget:
-13 straight games with 35+ points

-4 straight games with 45+ points (separate streak)

-The 56 against Memphis was also through 3 quarters. The 61 against New York in 37 min. Only player in NBA history to drop 60+ twice in under 40 minutes played. :bowdown:

TOTAL CAREER PLAYOFF POINTS LIST TOP 10:

1.Michael Jordan* 5987
2.Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 5762
3.Shaquille O'Neal 5121
4.Kobe Bryant* 5052
5.Karl Malone 4761
6.Jerry West* 4457
7.Larry Bird* 3897
8.John Havlicek* 3776
9.Hakeem Olajuwon* 3755
10.Tim Duncan 3724

Keep arguing your agenda bull sh*t all you want. I'll just just put auto shutdown on that sh!t....No need for a Pic of Ether...*


Why keep trying to bring up agenda BS? Is it because:



http://i28.tinypic.com/6h0p78.jpg


Whats Jordans career high? 69 ? with overtime?:oldlol:

Kobe almost did that in 3 quarters

[The Iron Fist]

you are implying its not close by saying that kareem is the only choice for GOAT and hammering blitz for not having kareem first all time.

how is that not saying is not close? it doesn't make sense.


So now I said hes the only choice?

No, I asked him whether he thinks Kareem is the GOAT or not.


Imo, he is. In my opinion.

I'm just curious as to what Mr. History Book thinks of that opinion since he has such keen knowledge of the sport based on his many historian buddies.


In my opinion, history dictates that Kareem, is the GOAT.

But thats just me and how I've viewed the history.

[ginobli2311]

Percentage doesn't mean anything when a player doesn't care for it. Kobe doesn't care for shooting percentage.

That's the reason why he takes such difficult shots, but what people don't realize is that he take those shots in the regular season to prepare for the playoffs. Then he starts to take better shots, and if need be he had enough practice with tough shots in the regular season to use it in the playoffs when the game is on the line.

It's like a video game. U practice a more difficult strategy so u would be prepare for when the game really matters. If u go the easy route than u would get blindsided against someone better than u.

and please tell me the last game winner kobe had in the playoffs. thanks.

and how many he's missed in a row now. looks like he needs to change his practice habits.

[ginobli2311]

So now I said hes the only choice?

No, I asked him whether he thinks Kareem is the GOAT or not.


Imo, he is. In my opinion.

I'm just curious as to what Mr. History Book thinks of that opinion since he has such keen knowledge of the sport based on his many historian buddies.


In my opinion, history dictates that Kareem, is the GOAT.

But thats just me and how I've viewed the history.

so what is your problem. he said no. he has jordan number 1 and gave you a 15 minute video explaining why.

just say you disagree and move on then.

and again. everyone his different criteria. i think kareem and russell had the two best careers ever. but i think both magic and michael were better players.

[The Iron Fist]

and please tell me the last game winner kobe had in the playoffs. thanks.

and how many he's missed in a row now. looks like he needs to change his practice habits.


I can tell you that answer as soon as you tell me when was the last championship Kobe won and how many hes had in a row now.

From where I'm looking,

the habits are just fine.

[MrJohnWall]

this speaks more to career ranking. not player ranking.

when i rank players i take the 12 best years of their careers because that is the best time frame to really see how great a player was in terms of level of play and impact.

i have no problem with someone saying kareem was the best ever. i disagree...but i understand it. but i don't think we should talk much about jordan at age 39 on the wizards.

what if jordan played with the same great talent that kareem got on the lakers?
what if jordan never retired?

i could go on and on.


what if Kareem played in the 90's?

what if Kareem shot 30 shots a game like Jordan?

or lead the league 10 straight years in shots taken?

Jordan doesnt really match up with Kareem as a player

35 17 5 on 58% shooting is a much much better peak then Jordan

[Ne 1]

he takes the worst shots ever on the biggest stage and rarely makes them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n5qLQ6ZUKE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q9KJA6ONws

http://www.whatdaphuk.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/onlykingshaverings.jpg

[The Iron Fist]

so what is your problem. he said no. he has jordan number 1 and gave you a 15 minute video explaining why.

just say you disagree and move on then.


He said "no"?

I must have missed it. All I seen from him was links to videos.

I just want to see him say, based on history, if Kareem is the GOAT or not.

His standard, not mine.


this player or that player on an all time list comes from a lack of knowledge about the history of the game. Really it doesn't bother me any more because I know tons of historians when it pertains to the game of professional basketball who are able to look at someone's individual career and put it in perspective when ranking other individual careers.

[ginobli2311]

what if Kareem played in the 90's?

what if Kareem shot 30 shots a game like Jordan?

or lead the league 10 straight years in shots taken?

Jordan doesnt really match up with Kareem as a player

35 17 5 on 58% shooting is a much much better peak then Jordan

jordan didn't average 30 shots a game.

i'm not going to get into a kareem vs. mj debate. either one is fine. its not clear either way. so its a debate that is impossible to win.

i will say that jordan could dominate and take over games late in a way that kareem rarely did and that goes a long way for me.

but again. anyone saying that is clearly kareem or clearly jordan is misinformed.

[Ne 1]

Whats Jordans career high? 69 ? with overtime?:oldlol:

Kobe almost did that in 3 quarters

Actually with double over time being and being guarded alternately by Craig Ehlo/Mark Price. :roll:

[ginobli2311]

He said "no"?

I must have missed it. All I seen from him was links to videos.

I just want to see him say, based on history, if Kareem is the GOAT or not.

His standard, not mine.

i don't get the definition of your "history".

ranking careers and ranking players are two different things.

its very clear that kareem had a better "career" than jordan. that is really not debatable. but it is debatable who the better player was.

i just don't see your problem. history does not show kareem is the the unquestioned GOAT at all. it shows he probably had the best career ever. thats it.

[Disaprine]

and thus the thread has turned to another kobe vs Jordan shitfest.

[ginobli2311]

Actually with double over time being and being guarded alternately by Craig Ehlo/Mark Price. :roll:

whats funny is that ehlo would have been by far the best defender on the court that night on the raptors team.

damn you people are ignorant.

[MrJohnWall]

Actually with double over time being and being guarded alternately by Craig Ehlo/Mark Price. :roll:
What?:oldlol: :oldlol:

People want to hate on Wilt for Dominating scrubs..

But Jordan gets a pass.

Cot Damn i Hate Nike. Jordan wouldnt be a household name or be as overrated as he is today if it wasnt for them

[Batz]

i just don't see your problem. history does not show kareem is the the unquestioned GOAT at all. it shows he probably had the best career ever. thats it.
holy mother of contradiction strikes.

[MrJohnWall]

whats funny is that ehlo would have been by far the best defender on the court that night on the raptors team.

damn you people are ignorant.
Lol hes nowhere near the defender as anthony parker

[Rose]

holy mother of contradiction strikes.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: BATZMAN!

[ginobli2311]

Lol hes nowhere near the defender as anthony parker

haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

anthony parker? haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[Ne 1]

What?:oldlol: :oldlol:

People want to hate on Wilt for Dominating scrubs..

But Jordan gets a pass.

Cot Damn i Hate Nike. Jordan wouldnt be a household name or be as overrated as he is today if it wasnt for them

Jordan played in in era against predominantly short, weak, un-athletic white guys.

[ginobli2311]

holy mother of contradiction strikes.

you really think ranking players and careers are the same thing?
:facepalm

[MrJohnWall]

Jordan played in in era against predominantly short, weak, un-athletic white guys.
Exactly. Do they know what Kobe would do to Craig Ehlo and Mark Price?
50 on a bad day...

Kobe lit up Battier for 50.. Jordan never faced a defender as good as Battier

[ginobli2311]

Jordan played in in era against predominantly short, weak, un-athletic white guys.

then please explain how at age 38 after being out of the game for a few years he could average 23 points 6 boards 5 assists before the rules made it even easier to score from the perimeter.

lol at this era being better defensively. a big LOL

23/6/5 and he was 38 and injured on a bad team. hahahahaahhaa.

[The Iron Fist]

i don't get the definition of your "history".

ranking careers and ranking players are two different things.

its very clear that kareem had a better "career" than jordan. that is really not debatable. but it is debatable who the better player was.

i just don't see your problem. history does not show kareem is the the unquestioned GOAT at all. it shows he probably had the best career ever. thats it.


lo ****ing l.

[Ne 1]

Exactly. Do they know what Kobe would do to Craig Ehlo and Mark Price?
50 on a bad day...

Kobe lit up Battier for 50.. Jordan never faced a defender as good as Battier

Not to mention defensive schemes today are far better and more complex than they were 2-3 decades ago.

[ginobli2311]

lo ****ing l.

wow. you are a moron. you have no ability to use context or logic. just wow. damn. this country is so ****ed because people like you have no ability to use advanced reasoning.

just wow.

[MrJohnWall]

then please explain how at age 38 after being out of the game for a few years he could average 23 points 6 boards 5 assists before the rules made it even easier to score from the perimeter.

lol at this era being better defensively. a big LOL

23/6/5 and he was 38 and injured on a bad team. hahahahaahhaa.
please he average 21 points on 21 shots on a losing team bench d-league players could do better then that.

And its not hard to score when your constantly getting blown out and going against bench players

[ginobli2311]

Not to mention defensive schemes today are far better and more complex than they were 2-3 decades ago.
23/6/5 and he was 38 and injured on a bad team. hahahahaahhaa.

playing before the rules changes of 06 came into full affect making it even easier to score.

i'll just keep poting it.

23/6/5.....38 years old and injured with no help. morons.

[Ne 1]

Jordan faced shorter defenders than what players like Kobe and LeBron see today. Best defenders on Jordan are generally considered to be:

Starks: 6'2
Dumars: 6'3
Payton 6'4

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii250/harty413/9495CharlotteMuggsyBoguesDefence.jpg

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/4107/111111111111111111.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_OR1l8Wilj1M/SIlphcbPbjI/AAAAAAAABpg/em1Ol-NTo7s/s400/jordan-drexler2.jpg

He was able to back his shorter defender in the post and take advantage of that.

Today almost every team has a 6''8 or 6''9 swing man.
Here are some real ballers, many who are elite defenders and 20+ ppg scorers - these are the guys Kobe and Lebron face:

Kevin Durant 6''9
Lebron 6''9 (260 lbs)
AK47 6''9
J. Wright 6''9
T.Prince 6''9
A.Jamison 6'9
D.Granger 6''9
L.Deng 6''9
S. Battier 6''8
W.Chandler 6''8
B.Outlaw6''8
S.Marion 6''8
P. Pierce: 6''8
J. Posey 6''8
J.Johnson: 6''8
A. Harrington: 6''8
K.Martin 6''8
S.Jackson 6''8
J. Hayes 6''8
A. Iguadala 6'8
Carmelo 6''8
J. Green 6''8
G. Wallace 6''8
B. Bowen 6''7
R. Artest: 6''7 (260 lbs)

Players are stronger and taller today- no doubt about it. Everything get's better with time.


You have defensive specialists today like Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest, Shane Battier, Thabo Sefolosha etc. who are supposed to be ''Kobe-stoppers''.

During Jordan's era the defensive specialists were guys like John Starks. The idea of Starks being a Jordan stopper is ridiculous . When you give up 4 inches and 30 pounds to someone who you'll guard in single coverage (for most the game) in the mid-range perimeter area, then those physical limitations will be almost impossible to overcome.



The 90s defense was 1 on 1 vs. shorter midget defenders in the post all day long on isolations.

Today no body can even post up anymore - Duncan, KG, Shaq, Kobe they are all doubled after 1 or 2 dribbles at the most.

http://alltalksports.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/jordans-game-winner-over-ehlo.jpg

:oldlol:


Jordan's career high is 69 in double over time againt a slow, weak, un-athletic white guy named Craig Ehlo and he thinks he could score 100 today.

[ginobli2311]

please he average 21 points on 21 shots on a losing team bench d-league players could do better then that.

And its not hard to score when your constantly getting blown out and going against bench players

nope. he averaged 23 a game at age 38 and his team went 30-30 in games he played. 37-45 overall.

that jordan's season was riddled with injuries and his team still was .500 in games he played.

better than kobe's 05 when his team was ten games under .500 and had a much better team with butler/odom.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. owned again. next?

[MrJohnWall]

Jordan faced shorter defenders than what players like Kobe and LeBron see today. Best defenders on Jordan are generally considered to be:

Starks: 6'2
Dumars: 6'3
Payton 6'4

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii250/harty413/9495CharlotteMuggsyBoguesDefence.jpg

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/4107/111111111111111111.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_OR1l8Wilj1M/SIlphcbPbjI/AAAAAAAABpg/em1Ol-NTo7s/s400/jordan-drexler2.jpg

He was able to back his shorter defender in the post and take advantage of that.

Today almost every team has a 6''8 or 6''9 swing man.
Here are some real ballers, many who are elite defenders and 20+ ppg scorers - these are the guys Kobe and Lebron face:

Kevin Durant 6''9
Lebron 6''9 (260 lbs)
AK47 6''9
J. Wright 6''9
T.Prince 6''9
A.Jamison 6'9
D.Granger 6''9
L.Deng 6''9
S. Battier 6''8
W.Chandler 6''8
B.Outlaw6''8
S.Marion 6''8
P. Pierce: 6''8
J. Posey 6''8
J.Johnson: 6''8
A. Harrington: 6''8
K.Martin 6''8
S.Jackson 6''8
J. Hayes 6''8
A. Iguadala 6'8
Carmelo 6''8
J. Green 6''8
G. Wallace 6''8
B. Bowen 6''7
R. Artest: 6''7 (260 lbs)

Players are stronger and taller today- no doubt about it. Everything get's better with time.


You have defensive specialists today like Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest, Shane Battier, Thabo Sefolosha etc. who are supposed to be ''Kobe-stoppers''.

During Jordan's era the defensive specialists were guys like John Starks. The idea of Starks being a Jordan stopper is ridiculous . When you give up 4 inches and 30 pounds to someone who you'll guard in single coverage (for most the game) in the mid-range perimeter area, then those physical limitations will be almost impossible to overcome.



The 90s defense was 1 on 1 vs. shorter midget defenders in the post all day long on isolations.

Today no body can even post up anymore - Duncan, KG, Shaq, Kobe they are all doubled after 1 or 2 dribbles at the most.

Jordan's career high is 69 in double over time againt a slow, weak, un-athletic white guy named Craig Ehlo and he thinks he could score 100 today.
:oldlol: :oldlol: 5 star posting
:applause: :applause:

[Ne 1]

Kobe lit up Battier for 50.. Jordan never faced a defender as good as Battier

:bowdown:

Amazing

Kobe had to go against defensive specialists like Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest, Shane Battier, Ruben Patterson etc. They didn't have these defensive specialists when Jordan was playing. Jordan was quoted saying the best defender he had to go against was Joe Dumars. Dumars is 6'3 195 pounds. The guy was thin as a rail and guarded MJ who is 6'6 216 pounds. Dumars was a skinny, slow, undersized PG and that's the best defender MJ had to go against.

Battier has a freaking manual on Kobe's tendencies! He was even quoted saying stayed up all night studying film and books of paper work compiled on Kobe's tendencies, yet when he's assigned to guard him Kobe scored 30 and 40+ on him. Even in that Houston series Kobe had Artest and Battier on him and he still scored on them with ease and couldn't stop him from winning. Not to mention he only went to the FT line 10 times once in the series. The rest of the games were all 7 or under.

It's funny people praise Jordan's 63 point losing performance in Boston being gurded by Danny Ainge! :roll:

[Lakers13]

I literally tried watching this youtube and then preceded to shut it off when Bruce says he currently has Kobe at 17 :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

Your only gonna put Kobe into your top 10 after he wins a 2nd MVP, 3rd straight FMVP, and his 6th title? Really? Try not to be too biased Bruce :facepalm


As for your question of this thread, No on MVP unless Lakers have best record, and yes on FMVP.

[ginobli2311]

LOL.

and this was before all the rules changes to make it even easier. LOL.

really? so the guy can score 23 a game at age 38 battling injuries without the new rules and you are questioning his ability score in the current game? are you people ****ing serious?

[Ne 1]

please he average 21 points on 21 shots on a losing team bench d-league players could do better then that.

And its not hard to score when your constantly getting blown out and going against bench players

:oldlol:

Couldn't even make the playoffs in the weak east despite playing with Rip Hamilton and Jerry Stackhouse.

[MrJohnWall]

:bowdown:

Amazing

Kobe had to go against defensive specialists like Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest, Shane Battier, Ruben Patterson etc. They didn't have these defensive specialists when Jordan was playing. Jordan was quoted saying the best defender he had to go against was Joe Dumars. Dumars is 6'3 195 pounds. The guy was thin as a rail and guarded MJ who is 6'6 216 pounds. Dumars was a skinny, slow, undersized PG and that's the best defender MJ had to go against.

Battier has a freaking manual on Kobe's tendencies! He was even quoted saying stayed up all night studying film and books of paper work compiled on Kobe's tendencies, yet when he's assigned to guard him Kobe scored 30 and 40+ on him. Even in that Houston series Kobe had Artest and Battier on him and he still scored on them with ease and couldn't stop him from winning. Not to mention he only went to the FT line 10 times once in the series. The rest of the games were all 7 or under.

It's funny people praise Jordan's 63 point losing performance in Boston being gurded by Danny Ainge! :roll:
:applause: Exactly

http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/84623212.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF8789215ABF3343C02EA5482BC2595EA939C7EE 85A2FFD0AC7BF6F6FD0F80F58290F5DD

Look how small Dumars is :oldlol:


Did teams even have the technology so players could study defenders then?

[ginobli2311]

:oldlol:

Couldn't even make the playoffs in the weak east despite playing with Rip Hamilton and Jerry Stackhouse.

he never played with both of them on the same team.

what happened to kobe in 05. kobe's team was ten games under .500 that season when he played.

jordan's team was .500 in the games he played.

23/6/5 at age 38 while injured. LOL....about kobe's career averages. at age 38 and injured. hahahahahahaha. before the rules changes. hahahahahah.

owned. mother ****ing owned. god damn this feels good. can you feel it? can you?

mother ****ing owned.

GTFO morons. owned. owned owned. 23 points at age 38 while injured. team was .500 when he played. kobe was ten games under .500 in his prime with a better team. hahahahahahhaha.

just so good. just so good.

you mad? hell yea you mad?

jordan owns kobe. everyone with a brain knows this. its awesome. you can't say anything. you can't change history. at age 38 and injured jordan was putting up 23/6/5....ahahahahahhahahaahahahahahahhahahahah

[Ne 1]

:applause: Exactly

http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/84623212.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF8789215ABF3343C02EA5482BC2595EA939C7EE 85A2FFD0AC7BF6F6FD0F80F58290F5DD

Look how small Dumars is :oldlol:


Did teams even have the technology so players could study defenders then?


:oldlol:

It's funny this dude is talking about MJ on the Wizards. Anyone can put up good numbers on a bad team.

How about we bring up when Jordan was on the Wizards and Kobe damn near scored 50 points on his old azz in one half and forced him into retirement?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSaKPHSEtRM

[Batz]

you really think ranking players and careers are the same thing?
:facepalm
Usually you rank players off of careers. What do you rank them by? Popularity? Skin colour? Hair-line? How pretty they dress?

[ginobli2311]

:oldlol:

It's funny this dude is talking about MJ on the Wizards. Anyone can put up good numbers on a bad team.

How about we bring up when Jordan was on the Wizards and Kobe damn near scored 50 points on him in one half and forced him into retirement?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSaKPHSEtRM

lol. but not everyone could get that team to .500.

if it was so easy why couldn't kobe get odom and butler to .500 in 05????

ten games under .500 with butler and odom. a big LOL

please respond. LOL

[Ne 1]

he never played with both of them on the same team.

what happened to kobe in 05. kobe's team was ten games under .500 that season when he played.

jordan's team was .500 in the games he played.

23/6/5 at age 38 while injured. LOL....about kobe's career averages. at age 38 and injured. hahahahahahaha. before the rules changes. hahahahahah.

owned. mother ****ing owned. god damn this feels good. can you feel it? can you?

mother ****ing owned.

GTFO morons. owned. owned owned. 23 points at age 38 while injured. team was .500 when he played. kobe was ten games under .500 in his prime with a better team. hahahahahahhaha.

just so good. just so good.

you mad? hell yea you mad?

jordan owns kobe. everyone with a brain knows this. its awesome. you can't say anything. you can't change history. at age 38 and injured jordan was putting up 23/6/5....ahahahahahhahahaahahahahahahhahahahah


haha! we making him mad bruh

What's your point Kobe had 1 sub .500 season. Jordan has 5! :oldlol:

btw "Kobe is the best all around player that I have ever coached" - Phil Jackson

tell em why you mad...

[SinJackal]

If Boston could win on the road in Cleveland and Orlando to make the finals thats more impressive. Maybe it's just me but yes Spurs and Dallas could beat L.A on any given night but in a series? I don't think it would be too impressive as I don't really consider Spurs or Dallas legit contenders yet and as the two time defending champs Lakers should beat them with or without homecourt in no less than 6 games.

Maybe if Spurs keep this up my opinion could change but Spurs nor Dallas concern me.

Just for reference, the Lakers have been the #1 seed in the west and had home court advantage for 11 of the 12 playoff series they've played in the last 3 years. The one time they didn't have home court, they lost. It isn't like they've been knocking off teams left and right without home court to prove their road mettle. They've taken care of business in the season to get the luxury of playoff home court. That's the key to championship success.

The Celtics did get to the Finals without home court, but it was through weaker teams than L.A. will have to face. Just think about it, if you're the one seed, you get a crap first round team, followed by a good but not elite second round team. The WCF is hard as hell, then the Finals is hard. But if you're a 2 or 3 seed, you get pitted against a decent team in the first round, then an elite team in the second, followed by an elite team in the WCF, then an elite team in the Finals. If you're the 3 seed, you have to face all 3 elites on the road. That's much harder than you seem to give it credit for man. Just saying. You really should be cheering for the Lakers to win all these regular season games. They DO matter. . .those #1 and #2 seed spots are vital to playoff success. Especially in the west where each round could be any team's last.

Besides, doesn't it make the season more interesting for you, knowing that?

[ginobli2311]

Usually you rank players off of careers. What do you rank them by? Popularity? Skin colour? Hair-line? How pretty they dress?

level of play and impact. for example:

gasol could easily end up having a better career than dirk but i would never rank gasol over dirk all time as players.

you follow?

seriously. use your brain every once and a while.

[ginobli2311]

haha! we making him mad bruh

What's your point Kobe had 1 sub .500 season. Jordan has 5! :oldlol:

btw "Kobe is the best all around player that I have ever coached" - Phil Jackson

tell em why you mad...

put a poll up on here and ask if jordan is better than kobe.

owned.

[Ne 1]

lol. but not everyone could get that team to .500.

if it was so easy why couldn't kobe get odom and butler to .500 in 05????

ten games under .500 with butler and odom. a big LOL

please respond. LOL

Kobe was leading them to .500 before Rudy T left and him Odom and Butler missed like 40 games that year due to injury

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPjUsu2-QMQ

[SinJackal]

he never played with both of them on the same team.

what happened to kobe in 05. kobe's team was ten games under .500 that season when he played.

jordan's team was .500 in the games he played.

23/6/5 at age 38 while injured. LOL....about kobe's career averages. at age 38 and injured. hahahahahahaha. before the rules changes. hahahahahah.

owned. mother ****ing owned. god damn this feels good. can you feel it? can you?

mother ****ing owned.

GTFO morons. owned. owned owned. 23 points at age 38 while injured. team was .500 when he played. kobe was ten games under .500 in his prime with a better team. hahahahahahhaha.

just so good. just so good.

you mad? hell yea you mad?

jordan owns kobe. everyone with a brain knows this. its awesome. you can't say anything. you can't change history. at age 38 and injured jordan was putting up 23/6/5....ahahahahahhahahaahahahahahahhahahahah

Whoa dude, calm down. Talk about the wigging out post of the month.

[Batz]

level of play and impact. for example:

gasol could easily end up having a better career than dirk but i would never rank gasol over dirk all time as players.

you follow?

seriously. use your brain every once and a while.
Impact and level of play isn't counted for when looking at someone's career now? :ohwell:

[1Time4YourMind]

Actually with double over time being and being guarded alternately by Craig Ehlo/Mark Price. :roll:
Wrong. It was merely one overtime, there was single coverage on him the entire game (NOTE the difference between double team and help defense, Jordan had lots of help defense regardless). In the book Jordan Rules, Jordan states that in the game "I wouldn't have taken so many shots if I wasn't open", though the defense was still a good deal better than the atrocious Raptors D on Kobe. Ehlo played good D, but hey we are talking about Jordan here.

[MrJohnWall]

put a poll up on here and ask if jordan is better than kobe.

owned.
so a poll is better then Phil Jackson who has watched Jordan & Kobe played for majority of there career?

Yeah... i'll take Phils word

Jordan= Wilt 2.0

empty stats in a weak era

[Ne 1]

:applause: Exactly

http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/84623212.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF8789215ABF3343C02EA5482BC2595EA939C7EE 85A2FFD0AC7BF6F6FD0F80F58290F5DD

Look how small Dumars is :oldlol:


Did teams even have the technology so players could study defenders then?



good work breh...we got him mad as hell right now :oldlol:

this dude is furious! we got his blood pressure up because of Kobe. :roll:

[Batz]

so a poll is better then Phil Jackson who has watched Jordan & Kobe played for majority of there career?

Yeah... i'll take Phils word

Jordan= Wilt 2.0

empty stats in a weak era
He won 6 championships. How is that empty stats?

[BlueandGold]

and lol @ anyone calling blitz a narcissitic, from my experience to have to be attractive to be a narcissitic He's more borderline sociopath/retard. Weird combination I know.

Btw just read pages 3-7 and it's 4 straight pages of Bruce getting owned.

[Ne 1]

put a poll up on here and ask if jordan is better than kobe.

owned.

Who should we believe a coach with 10 rings or some internet geeks on a message board?

try again fakkit

[TheAnchorman]

and lol @ anyone calling blitz a narcissitic, from my experience to have to be attractive to be a narcissitic.
To be called narcissistic when not attractive makes it even more significant.

[SinJackal]

Who should we believe a coach with 10 rings or some internet geeks on a message board?

try again fakkit

Phil only has ten rings?

Do three of his 13 rings not count or something now? :facepalm

[MrJohnWall]

:oldlol:

It's funny this dude is talking about MJ on the Wizards. Anyone can put up good numbers on a bad team.

How about we bring up when Jordan was on the Wizards and Kobe damn near scored 50 points on his old azz in one half and forced him into retirement?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSaKPHSEtRM
:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: @ the sonning Kobe gave Jordan @ 6:13

Jordan flopped cuz he was scared of guarding Kobe 1 on 1 :oldlol:

[Ne 1]

Phil only has ten rings?

Do three of his 13 rings not count or something now? :facepalm

10 rings as a coach, 12 if you wanna count his 2 rings as a player.

The '98 title has an asterisk next to it though.

[Batz]

Phil only has ten rings?

Do three of his 13 rings not count or something now? :facepalm
2 as a player and -1 because the kings deserve it.

I'm just guessing here though.

[SinJackal]

10 rings as a coach, 12 if you wanna count his 2 rings as a player.

The '98 title has an asterisk next to it though.

He has 11 rings as a coach, not 10. Which means he has 13.

'98 can't have an asterisk because it wasn't even a game 7, and therefore you'd only be speculating that they'd magically lose the game 7 if Jordan's light push off was called a foul at the end of game 6.

[Ne 1]

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: @ the sonning Kobe gave Jordan @ 6:13

Jordan flopped cuz he was scared of guarding Kobe 1 on 1 :oldlol:

:oldlol:

MJ looked hella mad that game Kobe was torching him so he gave up and told Stackhouse to get on Kobe.


It was the end of MJ.

[Rose]

2 as a player and -1 because the kings deserve it.

I'm just guessing here though.
def

[MrJohnWall]

He has 11 rings as a coach, not 10. Which means he has 13.

'98 can't have an asterisk because it wasn't even a game 7, and therefore you'd only be speculating that they'd magically lose the game 7 if Jordan's light push off was called a foul at the end of game 6.
slightly? byron fell from it..clear offensive foul
but he still had to hit jumper so its what ever

[Ne 1]

He has 11 rings as a coach, not 10. Which means he has 13.

'98 can't have an asterisk because it wasn't even a game 7, and therefore you'd only be speculating that they'd magically lose the game 7 if Jordan's light push off was called a foul at the end of game 6.

Light push off? He shoved Byron to the floor and then traveled.

Anyone else would have been called for an offensive foul, but Jordan was the most coddled player in NBA history.

The '98 title is tainted.

"Game 6 of the 1998 NBA Finals. A fairytale ending for Michael Jordan's career. The whole series was kind of a sham, actually. Karl Malone was the reigning MVP, but the officials were allowing Dennis Rodman to hold him, trip him, arm lock him, and in a couple cases, out-and-out wrestle him to the ground. Despite the egregious amount of hand-to-hand combat being leveled against the Mailman, he averaged only six free throw attempts per game (as opposed to 10.5 during the regular season). Just go back and watch those games, then try to tell me he only deserved three trips to the line per game. Jordan, on the other hand, who averaged 8 FTAs during the regular season, got 12 FTAs per game during the Finals!

The worst of the worst happened in Game 6. First, the officials allowed a Ron Harper three-pointer at the end of the second quarter despite the fact that replays showed it came after the buzzer. They then disallowed a Howard Eisley three at the end of the third that replays showed clearly came before the buzzer. That's a six-point swing in a game that was decided by a single point after Jordan pushed off on Bryon Russell to hit the game-winner."

[PistonsFan#21]

Lol hes nowhere near the defender as anthony parker

:facepalm Anthony Parker?n GTFO

He wasnt even playing for the Raptors back then. Just goes to show you probably havent even watched his 81pt game. :roll:

[MrJohnWall]

Light push off? He shoved Byron to the floor and then traveled.

Anyone else would have been called for an offensive foul, but Jordan was the most coddled player in NBA history.

The '98 title is tainted.

"Game 6 of the 1998 NBA Finals. A fairytale ending for Michael Jordan's career. The whole series was kind of a sham, actually. Karl Malone was the reigning MVP, but the officials were allowing Dennis Rodman to hold him, trip him, arm lock him, and in a couple cases, out-and-out wrestle him to the ground. Despite the egregious amount of hand-to-hand combat being leveled against the Mailman, he averaged only six free throw attempts per game (as opposed to 10.5 during the regular season). Just go back and watch those games, then try to tell me he only deserved three trips to the line per game. Jordan, on the other hand, who averaged 8 FTAs during the regular season, got 12 FTAs per game during the Finals!

The worst of the worst happened in Game 6. First, the officials allowed a Ron Harper three-pointer at the end of the second quarter despite the fact that replays showed it came after the buzzer. They then disallowed a Howard Eisley three at the end of the third that replays showed clearly came before the buzzer. That's a six-point swing in a game that was decided by a single point after Jordan pushed off on Bryon Russell to hit the game-winner."

Ridiculous......... Disgusting.... i Guess his 6th ring was a farewell present from Stern

[PistonsFan#21]

Light push off? He shoved Byron to the floor and then traveled.

Anyone else would have been called for an offensive foul, but Jordan was the most coddled player in NBA history.The '98 title is tainted.

"Game 6 of the 1998 NBA Finals. A fairytale ending for Michael Jordan's career. The whole series was kind of a sham, actually. Karl Malone was the reigning MVP, but the officials were allowing Dennis Rodman to hold him, trip him, arm lock him, and in a couple cases, out-and-out wrestle him to the ground. Despite the egregious amount of hand-to-hand combat being leveled against the Mailman, he averaged only six free throw attempts per game (as opposed to 10.5 during the regular season). Just go back and watch those games, then try to tell me he only deserved three trips to the line per game. Jordan, on the other hand, who averaged 8 FTAs during the regular season, got 12 FTAs per game during the Finals!

The worst of the worst happened in Game 6. First, the officials allowed a Ron Harper three-pointer at the end of the second quarter despite the fact that replays showed it came after the buzzer. They then disallowed a Howard Eisley three at the end of the third that replays showed clearly came before the buzzer. That's a six-point swing in a game that was decided by a single point after Jordan pushed off on Bryon Russell to hit the game-winner."

This is actually what happened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdPQ3QxDZ1s

Where do you see the shoving to the ground? Byron wasnt even down until he turned around and tried to come back to contest the shot. And where do you see a travelling? Have you ever played ball in your life?

Kobe did the exact same thing in his game winner agaisnt the Kings by the way: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ap3MA-hXjg

[MrJohnWall]

This is actually what happened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdPQ3QxDZ1s

Where do you see the shoving to the ground? Byron wasnt even down until he turned around and tried to come back to contest the shot. And where do you see a travelling? Have you ever played ball in your life?

Kobe did the exact same thing in his game winner agaisnt the Kings by the way: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ap3MA-hXjg
Did you see Kobe push off?

Kobe set a screen and the guy ran into him lol

theres no extension of Kobes arm

[SinJackal]

Light push off? He shoved Byron to the floor and then traveled.

Anyone else would have been called for an offensive foul, but Jordan was the most coddled player in NBA history.

The '98 title is tainted.

"Game 6 of the 1998 NBA Finals. A fairytale ending for Michael Jordan's career. The whole series was kind of a sham, actually. Karl Malone was the reigning MVP, but the officials were allowing Dennis Rodman to hold him, trip him, arm lock him, and in a couple cases, out-and-out wrestle him to the ground. Despite the egregious amount of hand-to-hand combat being leveled against the Mailman, he averaged only six free throw attempts per game (as opposed to 10.5 during the regular season). Just go back and watch those games, then try to tell me he only deserved three trips to the line per game. Jordan, on the other hand, who averaged 8 FTAs during the regular season, got 12 FTAs per game during the Finals!

The worst of the worst happened in Game 6. First, the officials allowed a Ron Harper three-pointer at the end of the second quarter despite the fact that replays showed it came after the buzzer. They then disallowed a Howard Eisley three at the end of the third that replays showed clearly came before the buzzer. That's a six-point swing in a game that was decided by a single point after Jordan pushed off on Bryon Russell to hit the game-winner."

You're grossly exaggerating the "push off". He very lightly pushed his hip. When's the last time you've even saw it? If one were to venture as guess as to how much of MJ's strength he actually used on that, while watching the video, I would say easily less than 20% of his strength. Maybe 10-15%. Which is, by definition, a light push off. He doesn't reel back and push him as hard as he can, he barely touches him.

You're also allowed to move a little when you gather the ball after a dribble, which mean he didn't travel. As for a three pointer not allowed, they didn't have replay at the time, and all judgements must be made on the fly. You can't fault refs and umpires for that sort of thing with no replay. Anything that happens in less than 1/5th of a second is excusable if mistaken.

FTAs is a wash, since Jordan takes more shots in the playoffs. Of course he'll get more FTAs. He's also more aggressive in important games, which leads to more FTAs.

All that said, even if the Bulls did lose game 6, you cannot really sit there and act like they would've for sure lost game 7, when they were 5 time champions and had the best player in the world on their team. Foolish speculation.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Jynx attempt detected for the Lakers.


in other news: lmao @ "you can't deny him the top 20"

[branslowski]

THE GREATNESS OF KOBE "BEAN" BRYANT!!!

5x NBA CHAMPION
(2000, 2001, 2002, 2009, 2010)

2x NBA FINALS MVP
(2009, 2010)

NBA MOST VALUABLE PLAYER
(2008)

12x NBA ALL-STAR
(1998, 2000-2010)

8x ALL-NBA FIRST TEAM
(2002-2004, 2006-2010)

2x ALL-NBA SECOND TEAM
(2000, 2001)

2x ALL-NBA THIRD TEAM
(1999, 2005)

11 TOTAL ALL-NBA TEAMS

8x ALL-DEFENSIVE FIRST TEAM
(2000, 2003-2004, 2006-2010)

2x ALL-DEFENSIVE SECOND TEAM
(2001-2002)

10 TOTAL ALL-DEFENSIVE TEAM......TIED FOR MOST OF ALL-TIME BY A GUARD

NBA ALL-ROOKIE SECOND TEAM
(1997)

NBA SLAM DUNK CHAMPION
(1997)

NAISMITH PREP PLAYER OF THE YEAR
(1996)

Total Career Points- 26319

Career Averages as a starter- 27.2 ppg 5.7rpg 5.4apg

SCORING RAMPAGE
81pts in a game
62pts in three quarters
42pts in 1st half
55pts in 2nd half
30pts in one quarter
12 threes in one game
9 threes without a miss in a game
8 threes in one half
9 straight games with 40pts+
4 straight games with 50pts+
27 games with 40pts+ in a season
10 games with 50pts+ in a season
4th player ever with a 35pt+ season average
5th player ever with a 2800pt+ season
1st player ever to outscore a team through 3 quarters
1st player ever with a 2800pt 180 three season

THE 50+PT GAMES:

Kobe-51pts 8ast 7reb vd GSW 99-00
Kobe-56pts 5ast 4reb vs Mem 00-01
Kobe-51pts 2ast 2reb vs Den 02-03
Kobe-52pts 7ast 8reb vs Hou 02-03
Kobe-55pts 3ast 5reb vs Was 02-03
Kobe-62pts 0ast 8reb vs Dal 05-06
Kobe-50pts 8ast 8reb vs Lac 05-06
Kobe-51pts 4ast 9reb vs Sac 05-06
Kobe-81pts 2ast 5reb vs Tor 05-06
Kobe-51pts 3ast 5reb vs Pho 05-06
Kobe-50pts 1ast 6reb vs Por 05-06
Kobe-50pts 5ast 8reb vs Pho 05-06
Kobe-52pts 4ast 4reb vs UTA 06-07
Kobe-53pts 8ast 10reb vs Hou 06-07
Kobe-58pts 4ast 5reb vs Cha 06-07
Kobe-65pts 3ast 7reb vs Por 06-07
Kobe-50pts 6ast 5reb vs Min 06-07
Kobe-60pts 5ast 3reb vs Mem 06-07
Kobe-50pts 7ast 6reb vs NO 06-07
Kobe-53pts 2ast 2reb vs Hou 06-07
Kobe-50pts ast 9reb vs Lac 06-07
Kobe-50pts 3ast 8reb vs Sea 06-07
Kobe-52pts 4ast 11reb vs Dal 07-08
Kobe-53pts ast 7reb vs Mem 07-08
Kobe-61pts 3ast 0reb vs Nyk 08-09


KILLER INSTINCT....
List of Kobe's notable game-winners:

1) 05/09/99 - Lakers 101, Rockets 100 (playoffs, game-winning FTs with 5.3 seconds remaining)
2) 12/27/99 - Lakers 108, Mavericks 106 (game-winning FTs)
3) 05/10/00 - Lakers 97, Phoenix 96 (playoffs, jumper over Jason Kidd)
4) 11/16/00 - Lakers 112, Kings 110 (game-tying three for OT, OT jumper for win)
5) 02/07/01 - Lakers 85, Phoenix 83 (jumper with 2.7 seconds remaining)
6) 02/13/01 - Lakers 113, Nets 110 (OT game-winning layup with the And-1)
7) 01/02/02 - Lakers 87, Nuggets 86 (offensive reb and jumper)
8) 02/22/02 - Lakers 96, Hornets 94 (first career buzzer-beater, jumper)
9) 03/24/02 - Lakers 97, Kings 96 (fade-away jumper, 36 seconds remaining)
10) 05/12/02 - Lakers 87, Spurs 85 (playoffs, offensive rebound and put-back)
11) 12/06/02 - Lakers 105, Mavericks 103 (28-point game comeback, spin-around jumper)
12) 04/04/03 - Lakers 102, Grizzlies 101 (buzzer-beater, jumper)
13) 04/06/03 - Lakers 115, Suns 113 (GW jumper with 28.6 seconds remaining)
14) 12/19/03 - Lakers 101, Nuggets 99 (game after the trial, buzzer-beating fade-away)
15) 02/17/04 - Lakers 89, Blazers 86 (layup and the foul)
16) 03/21/04 - Lakers 104, Bucks 103 (OT jumper with 25 seconds remaining)
17) 04/14/04 - Lakers 105, Blazers 104 (game-tying three for OT, OT GW buzzer-beating three)
18) 03/13/05 - Lakers 117, Bobcats 116 (pump fake jumper for the win)
19) 11/02/05 - Lakers 99, Nuggets 97 (OT jumper after the Kwame brick)
20) 12/04/05 - Lakers 99, Bobcats 98 (game-winning FTs)
21) 01/12/06 - Lakers 99, Cavaliers 98 (jumper against Lebron with 8 seconds to go)
22) 04/30/06 - Lakers 99, Suns 98 (playoffs, game-tying tear drop for OT, and OT game-winning jumper)
23) 01/14/08 - Lakers 123, Sonics 121 (OT game-winning jumper)
24) 01/09/09 - Lakers 121, Pacers 119 (jumper against Jarrett Jack with 3 seconds to go)
25) 12/04/09 - Lakers 108, Heat 107 (game-winning buzzer-beating three over Wade)
26) 12/16/09 - Lakers 107, Bucks 106 (game-winning buzzer-beating jumper over Bell)
27) 01/01/10 - Lakers 109, Kings 108 (game-winning buzzer-beating three, 4.1 seconds left and 0.1 remaining)
28) 01/13/10 - Lakers 100, Mavericks 95 (game-winning jumper with 28.9 seconds remaining)
29) 01/31/10 - Lakers 90, Celtics 89 (game-winning jumper with 7 secs remaining)
30) 02/23/10 - Lakers 99, Grizzlies 98 (game-winning jumper with 4.3 seconds remaining)
31) 03/10/10 - Lakers 109, Raptors 107 (game-winning fade-away with 1.9 seconds remaining)

Can't forget:
-13 straight games with 35+ points

-4 straight games with 45+ points (separate streak)

-The 56 against Memphis was also through 3 quarters. The 61 against New York in 37 min. Only player in NBA history to drop 60+ twice in under 40 minutes played. :bowdown:

TOTAL CAREER PLAYOFF POINTS LIST TOP 10:

1.Michael Jordan* 5987
2.Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 5762
3.Shaquille O'Neal 5121
4.Kobe Bryant* 5052
5.Karl Malone 4761
6.Jerry West* 4457
7.Larry Bird* 3897
8.John Havlicek* 3776
9.Hakeem Olajuwon* 3755
10.Tim Duncan 3724

Keep arguing your agenda bull sh*t all you want. I'll just just put auto shutdown on that sh!t....No need for a Pic of Ether...*


Why keep trying to bring up agenda BS? Is it because:



http://i28.tinypic.com/6h0p78.jpg

Hey...Thats my created wall of text of Kobe's greatness...:oldlol: ...Nice computer save job..:lol

[raptorfan_dr07]

Glad to see you back Bruce. As you noticed, the same Kobe n*tgaggers are still here arguing against logic and trying to revise history. Although I don't agree with your ranking of Kobe, I respect the time and effort you put in to your research.

Every post in this thread by john wall and ne1 has been reported by the way. There seriously needs to be safeguards to prevent trolls from coming back. Even if it means being more strict like realgm cause this shit is way too out of hand.

And to that idiot Iron Fist aka KAJ=GOAT, the fact you have to resort to meaningless bull shit like college and high school shows how insecure you are by other players. It is similar to that idiot a while back who tried to use PER titles as a reason why Lebron is better than Kobe. Kareems NBA record is good enough for GOAT. Of course the real reason you push the Kareem GOAT agenda so much is to pathetically put Kobe closer to Jordan.

[Ne 1]

Hey...Thats my created wall of text of Kobe's greatness...:oldlol: ...Nice computer save job..:lol

lol yup

thanks, toke me a little time to update everything though :cheers:

[branslowski]

Glad to see you back Bruce. As you noticed, the same Kobe n*tgaggers are still here arguing against logic and trying to revise history. Although I don't agree with your ranking of Kobe, I respect the time and effort you put in to your research.

Every post in this thread by john wall and ne1 has been reported by the way. There seriously needs to be safeguards to prevent trolls from coming back. Even if it means being more strict like realgm cause this shit is way too out of hand.

And to that idiot Iron Fist aka KAJ=GOAT, the fact you have to resort to meaningless bull shit like college and high school shows how insecure you are by other players. It is similar to that idiot a while back who tried to use PER titles as a reason why Lebron is better than Kobe. Kareems NBA record is good enough for GOAT. Of course the real reason you push the Kareem GOAT agenda so much is to pathetically put Kobe closer to Jordan.

I know you try to keep your whole "Go hard and reach and bash Kobe" phase going 24/7, but realistically with facts, where do you have Kobe ranked All-Time?

[MrJohnWall]

Glad to see you back Bruce. As you noticed, the same Kobe n*tgaggers are still here arguing against logic and trying to revise history. Although I don't agree with your ranking of Kobe, I respect the time and effort you put in to your research.

Every post in this thread by john wall and ne1 has been reported by the way. There seriously needs to be safeguards to prevent trolls from coming back. Even if it means being more strict like realgm cause this shit is way too out of hand.

And to that idiot Iron Fist aka KAJ=GOAT, the fact you have to resort to meaningless bull shit like college and high school shows how insecure you are by other players. It is similar to that idiot a while back who tried to use PER titles as a reason why Lebron is better than Kobe. Kareems NBA record is good enough for GOAT. Of course the real reason you push the Kareem GOAT agenda so much is to pathetically put Kobe closer to Jordan.
Yeah when bruce post its informative. But im trolling even though i have stated nothing but facts :facepalm :rolleyes:

[chazzy]

This thread got ugly quick, but ginobli's meltdown was hilarious. This part made me lol:

can you feel it? can you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYPqZlhpbQo

[branslowski]

lol yup

thanks, toke me a little time to update everything though :cheers:

Yeah....I used it a few times almost a year ago....I first whipped it oout fresh and done in this thread Duncan21 made back in 09' Ithink, the thread that had he claiming Vince Carter>>Kobe....I posted those Facts along with Michael Jackson Moonwalk GIF a the end...Gave out a straight ownage and basically shut the thread down....Back when I was in my owning ppl prime...:oldlol:

Good update though...I should save it to my computer...:cheers:

[Ne 1]

please tell me the last game winner kobe had in the playoffs

Me and MrJohnWall already brought this moron to tears but just to beat the dead horse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWXvi8waXyA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8nEqiEZQ30
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZOXZea1iGk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDpPrdF6ANs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4p0vfX6j1Pw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlusnThciI4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xqLrgyVIAE

[Ne 1]

Yeah....I used it a few times almost a year ago....I first whipped it oout fresh and done in this thread Duncan21 made back in 09' Ithink, the thread that had he claiming Vince Carter>>Kobe....I posted those Facts along with Michael Jackson Moonwalk GIF a the end...Gave out a straight ownage and basically shut the thread down....Back when I was in my owning ppl prime...:oldlol:

Good update though...I should save it to my computer...:cheers:

Yeah, I remember he made some thread basically saying that if Vince Carter played his career with the Lakers he would have the same status or be on the same level as Kobe. :oldlol:

[ginobli2311]

Me and MrJohnWall already brought this moron to tears but just to beat the dead horse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWXvi8waXyA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8nEqiEZQ30
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZOXZea1iGk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDpPrdF6ANs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4p0vfX6j1Pw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlusnThciI4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xqLrgyVIAE

you lost the debate.

kobe has been terrible in clutch situations in the playoffs since 06. pretty much an accepted fact.

and anyone that honestly thinks kobe is better than jordan is a moron. pretty much an accepted fact even by most kobe ******gers.

i just love that a 38 year old jordan can put up 23/6/5 injured before the rules changes and you morons are trying to say he couldn't reproduce his numbers and success in today's game.

honestly. its the dumbest thing i've ever hard. the dumbest.

again. 23/6/5 at age 38 and injured before the rules changes. that is essentially kobe's career numbers.....LOL....and he did it at age 38 while injured.

priceless

you mad?

[amfirst]

cough...nba finals....cough

he takes the worst shots ever on the biggest stage and rarely makes them.

christ. just admit that he plays very poor on the biggest stage for an all time great. its a fact. 7 trips to the finals and he shoots 41%. thats laughable. beyond bad for an all time great.

Yea and the greatest shooter in the NBA name Ray Allen shot pretty bad. Doesn't mean he can't shoot, just means the defense is great.

[Ne 1]

This thread got ugly quick, but ginobli's meltdown was hilarious. This part made me lol:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYPqZlhpbQo


Its hilarious how sensitive he gets over this stuff. Man this is entertaining. Trolling a troll and he has a emotional break down.

Dude is a joke. Just another basement dwelling neck beard that hates Kobe so he comes on ISH to spew his anti-Kobe rants and acts like anyone actually takes him seriously or something. :oldlol:

I can imagine what he looks like.

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/nerd.jpg

[ginobli2311]

Impact and level of play isn't counted for when looking at someone's career now? :ohwell:

they are. just not that heavily most of the time on here. people immediately rush to rings and accolades.

for example two players can have the same amount of rings and accolades and one can be much better than the other.

generally defensive impact is thrown completely out the window when discussing players. you just have to use context and logic. is kobe better than duncan because he came out of high school and duncan went to colleg for 4 years? what if duncan came out after his freshman year? he was clearly ready to be a great player then.

that is why i like to look at the 12 or so best years of a career. are you really going to jump shaq up the all time rankings if the celtics win a title this year? come on. his career ranking goes up because he adds a title...but as a player? we already saw what and who shaq was. this year means nothing to me. he's way past his best days. i don't care if he decides to play until he's 40. its makes no difference where i rank him all time based on his current play.

i just lean heavily towards level of play and impact over titles and accolades. most people on here are the exact opposite. they see x number of rings and immediately vault someone over someone else. each player had a different set of circumstances to work with and there is no set of rules to rank all players.

for example:

you obviously can't say that duncan is better than kg solely based on ring totals. that is idiotic. of course duncan has more rings....look at the situation he was in his entire prime compared to what kg had in minny. duncan is better because his level of play and impact is greater. if you switched the two players....i have no doubt kg would have more rings. does that make him better? nope. that is the problem with ranking the way you do. there is no debate your way. kareem/russell have clearly had the two best careers ever....therefore going off your standards they are clearly the two best players ever. i disagree with that. that is my point.

[ginobli2311]

Yea and the greatest shooter in the NBA name Ray Allen shot pretty bad. Doesn't mean he can't shoot, just means the defense is great.

all 7 years. that big of a sample size and its great defense? LOL. why didn't that defense impact wade in that way?

funny. excuses excuses. 6-24 in biggest game of career. LOL.

[ginobli2311]

Its hilarious how sensitive he gets over this stuff. Man this is entertaining. Trolling a troll and he has a emotional break down.

Dude is a joke. Just another basement dwelling neck beard that hates Kobe so he comes on ISH to spew his anti-Kobe rants and acts like anyone actually takes him seriously or something. :oldlol:

I can imagine what he looks like.

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/nerd.jpg

just a truth teller. you are so in love with kobe that you prop him up way higher than he actually is.

another poll.

i have kobe tenth all time. you say he's better than jordan. who do you think is more accurate?

moron.

[MrJohnWall]

Lol @ Ginboili logging off to calm his nerves after taking the biggest sonning in his life..

and came back after letting the steam cool off:mad:

[ginobli2311]

Lol @ Ginboili logging off to calm his nerves after taking the biggest sonning in his life..

and came back after letting the steam cool off:mad:

i had a dinner to go to moron.

please answer.

better player?

kobe or jordan.

please answer.

[Ne 1]

kobe has been terrible in clutch situations since 06

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQUShB29kcM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxLZGjSUbSw



:oldlol:

[ginobli2311]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQUShB29kcM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxLZGjSUbSw



:oldlol:

we were talking about the playoffs moron.

please follow the conversation before posting.

he's missed his last 15 plus game winners in the playoffs i think. anyway....really really bad.

[ginobli2311]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQUShB29kcM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxLZGjSUbSw



:oldlol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwmjhGCwDBg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5uP3bylWFs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeRrn1Kgj2o


LOL....

[Ne 1]

Lol @ Ginboili logging off to calm his nerves after taking the biggest sonning in his life..

and came back after letting the steam cool off:mad:

We made him so furious that he had to go take his blood pressure medication and go explain to his mother why he was screaming and pounding the key board.


:oldlol: @ this fakkit going on a rampage on the verge of a nervous breakdown because he's mad at Kobe Bryant.

[juju151111]

Kareem is a much better player then Jordan. And has a much better resume.
Only blind Jordan homers think Jordan is the undisputed GOAT
:facepalm

[ginobli2311]

We made him so furious that he had to go take his blood pressure medication and go explain to his mother why he was screaming and pounding the key board.


:oldlol: @ this fakkit going on a rampage on the verge of a nervous breakdown because he's mad at Kobe Bryant.

hardly. just think you're a moron.

again.

kobe or jordan. who is the better player?

you're afraid to answer because you know if you say kobe even the kobe nut huggers on here won't support you.

priceless. at least man up and have some conviction moron.

owned.

Gino

[1Time4YourMind]

You guys are both pretending to not care when someone disses you by using :roll: and :lol: emoticons to mask that shit, but in reality all of you probably have your feelings hurt because you guys take this argument way too ****ing personal.

Chill the **** out, all of you.

[MrJohnWall]

We made him so furious that he had to go take his blood pressure medication and go explain to his mother why he was screaming and pounding the key board.


:oldlol: @ this fakkit going on a rampage on the verge of a nervous breakdown because he's mad at Kobe Bryant.
:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Ne 1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwmjhGCwDBg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5uP3bylWFs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeRrn1Kgj2o


LOL....



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhqMuo12ex4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SPhD7nN17M


LOL....

[ginobli2311]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhqMuo12ex4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SPhD7nN17M


LOL....

really?

an all-star game block? really? do you want to look up the all-star game footage where kobe gets drilled by jordan?

and i have no idea how the paxon three is something against jordan. he made the right play and willingly gave up the ball. something kobe would never do. thats why kobe misses so many shots and makes so many dumb plays with the game on the line.

seriously.

kobe or jordan? who is better?

[MrJohnWall]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni7t4swtdYw

lol that never happened to the black mamba

[ginobli2311]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni7t4swtdYw

lol that never happened to the black mamba


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN3sto7KGQs

LOL....true greatness.

again. who is better?

i say jordan. why you so afraid to pick?

why u so mad?

[TheAnchorman]

really?

an all-star game block? really? do you want to look up the all-star game footage where kobe gets drilled by jordan?

and i have no idea how the paxon three is something against jordan. he made the right play and willingly gave up the ball. something kobe would never do. thats why kobe misses so many shots and makes so many dumb plays with the game on the line.

seriously.

kobe or jordan? who is better?
You should probably do yourself a favor and stop arguing topics that involve Kobe. For like a good 2-3 months. Seriously, stop the Kobe bashing. Yes, you make quite a few solid points and Jordan is obviously better than Kobe, but if you keep on going on this stupid argument that's turned ugly and personal then you're just as much of a troll as they are.

Don't worry pal, there are many more topics to argue about besides Kobe.

[MrJohnWall]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rjyyfO3D28&feature=related
:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: @ Jordan getting his ankles broken by a bench white guy

Man the things Kobe would have done to him

[ginobli2311]

You should probably do yourself a favor and stop arguing topics that involve Kobe. For like a good 2-3 months. Seriously, stop the Kobe bashing. Yes, you make quite a few solid points and Jordan is obviously better than Kobe, but if you keep on going on this stupid argument that's turned ugly and personal then you're just as much of a troll as they are.

Don't worry pal, there are many more topics to argue about besides Kobe.

i argue other things as well. the problem is that nobody but me stands up to the kobe morons.

it would just be one big kobe circle jerk on here. you say its obvious jordan is better. i agree.

but many many many posters on here don't agree and you get these morons claiming kobe is the GOAT.

i don't mind putting them in their place. somebody has to do it.

[Ne 1]

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

I think he's just mad that Kobe is everything he's not.

Dude is a 5x champion, widely regarded as the best player in the world, most popular athlete in America, his wife is a dime piece, he has 2 beautiful kids, and is regarded as the 'heir apparent' to MJ and regarded as the 'next MJ' in pop culture.

dude is like a lot of Kobe haters. they all grew up with Jordan as their child hood hero growing up and wanted to be like him. It's funny they hate on Kobe and say its because of him wanting to be like Mike but that is exactly who they wanted to be growing up. They wish that could have been them so they hate Kobe for living their dream and accomplishing what they wanted to be.

Now the dude is just a basement dweller that spews anti-Kobe crap on a message board out of anger.

[juju151111]

Jordan faced shorter defenders than what players like Kobe and LeBron see today. Best defenders on Jordan are generally considered to be:

Starks: 6'2
Dumars: 6'3
Payton 6'4

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii250/harty413/9495CharlotteMuggsyBoguesDefence.jpg

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/4107/111111111111111111.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_OR1l8Wilj1M/SIlphcbPbjI/AAAAAAAABpg/em1Ol-NTo7s/s400/jordan-drexler2.jpg

He was able to back his shorter defender in the post and take advantage of that.

Today almost every team has a 6''8 or 6''9 swing man.
Here are some real ballers, many who are elite defenders and 20+ ppg scorers - these are the guys Kobe and Lebron face:

Kevin Durant 6''9
Lebron 6''9 (260 lbs)
AK47 6''9
J. Wright 6''9
T.Prince 6''9
A.Jamison 6'9
D.Granger 6''9
L.Deng 6''9
S. Battier 6''8
W.Chandler 6''8
B.Outlaw6''8
S.Marion 6''8
P. Pierce: 6''8
J. Posey 6''8
J.Johnson: 6''8
A. Harrington: 6''8
K.Martin 6''8
S.Jackson 6''8
J. Hayes 6''8
A. Iguadala 6'8
Carmelo 6''8
J. Green 6''8
G. Wallace 6''8
B. Bowen 6''7
R. Artest: 6''7 (260 lbs)

Players are stronger and taller today- no doubt about it. Everything get's better with time.


You have defensive specialists today like Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest, Shane Battier, Thabo Sefolosha etc. who are supposed to be ''Kobe-stoppers''.

During Jordan's era the defensive specialists were guys like John Starks. The idea of Starks being a Jordan stopper is ridiculous . When you give up 4 inches and 30 pounds to someone who you'll guard in single coverage (for most the game) in the mid-range perimeter area, then those physical limitations will be almost impossible to overcome.



The 90s defense was 1 on 1 vs. shorter midget defenders in the post all day long on isolations.

Today no body can even post up anymore - Duncan, KG, Shaq, Kobe they are all doubled after 1 or 2 dribbles at the most.

http://alltalksports.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/jordans-game-winner-over-ehlo.jpg

:oldlol:


Jordan's career high is 69 in double over time againt a slow, weak, un-athletic white guy named Craig Ehlo and he thinks he could score 100 today.
I don't get you guys ganging up on ginobli so let me help. Here the list of MJ defenders u left by mistake i am sure:facepalm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvX5Zy5Ms9I Lets see Bruce bowen admit Jordan was the toughest person for him to guard. Ron artest said this about old no knees MJ. Mj was guarded by people smaller because you couldn't stay with him. MJ is not KB who chucks up shots and is does not have IQ or first step

[chazzy]

i argue other things as well. the problem is that nobody but me stands up to the kobe morons.

it would just be one big kobe circle jerk on here. you say its obvious jordan is better. i agree.

but many many many posters on here don't agree and you get these morons claiming kobe is the GOAT.

i don't mind putting them in their place. somebody has to do it.
Notice how you're the only one doing this right now? Everyone ignores them, it's been argued to death every other night in the past. And in your attempt to stand up to them, it's hard to resist trolling back. And you're wrong, there's only a couple people here that really think Kobe is better.. and even then, some of them are just trying to get you riled up.

[TheAnchorman]

i argue other things as well. the problem is that nobody but me stands up to the kobe morons.

it would just be one big kobe circle jerk on here. you say its obvious jordan is better. i agree.

but many many many posters on here don't agree and you get these morons claiming kobe is the GOAT.

i don't mind putting them in their place. somebody has to do it.
That's different. You're the only person who really does this... I've noticed you tend to piss off a lot of people, not just Kobe trolls, and its not just because of the neg reps (think about it... kobe trolls usually have neg rep so you wouldn't have neg rep, right? But wait...). In the other thread "what is MJ goat at?" I just saw you post "a much better all-around Kobe". I mean, REALLY DUDE? Kobe was barely mentioned in that thread yet you just dramatically increased the potential for another kobe-jordan argument with no provocation. It's one thing "putting them in your place", its another starting sh!t. Subtle, but indicative of trollness just the same.

Why don't you just give the "put kobe trolls in their place" mantle to someone else? Trust me, nothing will change much.


Also, trolls, posting videos and :oldlol: :oldlol: repeatedly isn't going to help your case. In case you f*cking forgot.

[Ne 1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni7t4swtdYw

lol that never happened to the black mamba

:applause:

great video

some more ether:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFs16GWXT_w&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ps73qikdApU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoGmMx8Ejrw

[ginobli2311]

I don't get you guys ganging up on ginobli so let me help. Here the list of MJ defenders u left by mistake i am sure:facepalm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvX5Zy5Ms9I Lets see Bruce bowen admit Jordan was the toughest person for him to guard. Ron artest said this about old no knees MJ. Mj was guarded by people smaller because you couldn't stay with him. MJ is not KB who chucks up shots and is does not have IQ or first step

ahhhh. an intelligent post.

the reason that smaller guards covered jordan was because jordan was one of the quickest players in the league. if you put a normal two guard on him....its over.

lol at bruce bowen trying to cover mj. he'd blow by him off the triple threat if he pressed up at all.....you would just see bruce giving him 4 feet of space and mj knocking down jumpers all night.

and even bigger LOL at shane battier trying to guard jordan. seriously. it would have been so bad. but it never would have happened because no coach would ever put battier on him. thats laughable.

[ginobli2311]

That's different. You're the only person who really does this... I've noticed you tend to piss off a lot of people, not just Kobe trolls, and its not just because of the neg reps (think about it... kobe trolls usually have neg rep so you wouldn't have neg rep, right? But wait...). In the other thread "what is MJ goat at?" I just saw you post "a much better all-around Kobe". I mean, REALLY DUDE? Kobe was barely mentioned in that thread yet you just dramatically increased the potential for another kobe-jordan argument with no provocation. It's one thing "putting them in your place", its another starting sh!t. Subtle, but indicative of trollness just the same.

Why don't you just give the "put kobe trolls in their place" mantle to someone else? Trust me, nothing will change much.


Also, trolls, posting videos and :oldlol: :oldlol: repeatedly isn't going to help your case. In case you f*cking forgot.

the don't respond. everyday i log on here and see a ridiculous kobe thread. every single day.

how about the one about kobe being the mvp of the league so far. really? its hilarious. if the threads stop...so will i.

i was out of the country for three months and nothing changed. the first day i came back i saw 6 kobe threads on the front page. two of which saying he was the GOAT.

LOL

[Ne 1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ChmRhlFzk0 Jordan attempts to guard Bird :oldlol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-XXmM0qLXk Drexler burns Jordan over and over again:

Bird (who has owned Jordan like no other) dominates the 4th quarter of an elimination game, Jordan doesn't even hit a single field goal! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RVMJSCTj5Y

[TheAnchorman]

the don't respond. everyday i log on here and see a ridiculous kobe thread. every single day.

how about the one about kobe being the mvp of the league so far. really? its hilarious. if the threads stop...so will i.

i was out of the country for three months and nothing changed. the first day i came back i saw 6 kobe threads on the front page. two of which saying he was the GOAT.

LOL
Doesn't matter if there's one or a million of them. What are you, some anti-Kobe crusader that feels compelled to purge these Kobe threads with the righteous hammer of God? Accept it, the only way for those threads to die is for you to stop responding.

Last post of the night, just trying to help yo.

[juju151111]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ChmRhlFzk0 Jordan attempts to guard Bird :oldlol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-XXmM0qLXk Drexler burns Jordan over and over again:

Bird (who has owned Jordan like no other) dominates the 4th quarter of an elimination game, Jordan doesn't even hit a single field goal! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RVMJSCTj5Y
Clyde barley scored on Mj.:wtf: Did u even watch the video?? He just dunking in transition. Yes Bird was Great and could post up a skinny MJ. Bird can't even think of guarding MJ through. Also u skip my post when i posted all MJ defenders, but hey ur full of shit alphawolf anyways.

[ginobli2311]

Doesn't matter if there's one or a million of them. What are you, some anti-Kobe crusader that feels compelled to purge these Kobe threads with the righteous hammer of God? Accept it, the only way for those threads to die is for you to stop responding.

Last post of the night, just trying to help yo.


Yes. Yes I am.

Thanks for the help though. If you promise to step in from time to time and set them straight. I will stop responding.

[chazzy]

Yes. Yes I am.

Thanks for the help though. If you promise to step in from time to time and set them straight. I will stop responding.
It's been done a million times man. People just get tired of it and don't even bother. "MJ faced midgets, handchecking overrated, never saw zones, Pippen and Rodman deserved FMVPs" etc etc. have all been debunked countless times. There's no point in stepping in

[1Time4YourMind]

I think this xkcd comic sums up this particular situation best:
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

[chazzy]

^:lol I think that's been used several times for ginobli

[ginobli2311]

^:lol I think that's been used several times for ginobli

So you don't want me to step in, but you join the hate parade. Classy.

[chazzy]

So you don't want me to step in, but you join the hate parade. Classy.
What? lol we're just advising you to stop getting baited by trolls, and that's exactly what that picture refers to.. someone who can't resist telling someone they're wrong. Just a funny pic, not part of the "hate parade" :oldlol:

[Fatal9]

23/6/5 at age 38 while injured. blah blah blah close to kobes averages blah blah blah
Brandon Jennings (for most people the least efficient perimeter player who matters in the league) is more efficient than Jordan was that season. 22.9 shots on 22.1 shots (41.6 FG%, 19 3pt%, 46.8 TS%) is not impressive at all. He had impressive games, but lets not act like he did something inhuman.

Steve Nash is 37 and averaging 18/4/10 on amazing efficiency. THAT is impressive. Kareem winning finals MVP at age 38 against a great Celtic team is way more impressive. Bird at 36 not being able to run, and having many many more injury problems than Jordan and still putting up 20/10/7 is much more impressive. Malone at 39 with way more mileage putting up 22/9/4? More impressive. Schrempf at 37 putting up 15/7/4 on much better efficiency? Just as impressive. Wizards Jordan wasn't doing anything more impressive than Sam Cassell in his mid 30s. He did about as well as you would expect a player of his talent level to do, but lets not act like he was playing like a world beater. Many other players have done just as much, if not more, with more mileage on their legs.

[necya]

Jesus...

this thread is a good summary of what ish is all about : kobe generation...the stupidest fanbase.
kobe has nothing to do in a top 10 all time.
i'm just sick when i see all those stupid statement about Barkley being over Kobe...people really don't see Barkley before his injury ?? sure...

kobe is one of the less efficient scorer ever. without all his stacked teams he played with, he has done nothing except scoring big numbers against the worst teams of the 00's.

for the one who wanna talk about the 42pts game of Drexler in 88 against the bulls, maybe he would be good to know that MJ just scored 21/23 for 52pts...

kind of irony that most of people on forums have no knowledges in their own "passion".

[momo]

Post count = post count + 1

[New York Knicks]

Brandon Jennings (for most people the least efficient perimeter player who matters in the league) is more efficient than Jordan was that season. 22.9 shots on 22.1 shots (41.6 FG%, 19 3pt%, 46.8 TS%) is not impressive at all. He had impressive games, but lets not act like he did something inhuman.

Steve Nash is 37 and averaging 18/4/10 on amazing efficiency. THAT is impressive. Kareem winning finals MVP at age 38 against a great Celtic team is way more impressive. Bird at 36 not being able to run, and having many many more injury problems than Jordan and still putting up 20/10/7 is much more impressive. Malone at 39 with way more mileage putting up 22/9/4? More impressive. Schrempf at 37 putting up 15/7/4 on much better efficiency? Just as impressive. Wizards Jordan wasn't doing anything more impressive than Sam Cassell in his mid 30s. He did about as well as you would expect a player of his talent level to do, but lets not act like he was playing like a world beater. Many other players have done just as much, if not more, with more mileage on their legs.
It wasn't just Jordan's age. It's that he didn't play for 3 years. It'd be impossible for almost anyone to just pick up a ball and play vs. amateurs, let alone NBA players.

[necya]

Brandon Jennings (for most people the least efficient perimeter player who matters in the league) is more efficient than Jordan was that season. 22.9 shots on 22.1 shots (41.6 FG%, 19 3pt%, 46.8 TS%) is not impressive at all. He had impressive games, but lets not act like he did something inhuman.

Steve Nash is 37 and averaging 18/4/10 on amazing efficiency. THAT is impressive. Kareem winning finals MVP at age 38 against a great Celtic team is way more impressive. Bird at 36 not being able to run, and having many many more injury problems than Jordan and still putting up 20/10/7 is much more impressive. Malone at 39 with way more mileage putting up 22/9/4? More impressive. Schrempf at 37 putting up 15/7/4 on much better efficiency? Just as impressive. Wizards Jordan wasn't doing anything more impressive than Sam Cassell in his mid 30s. He did about as well as you would expect a player of his talent level to do, but lets not act like he was playing like a world beater. Many other players have done just as much, if not more, with more mileage on their legs.

you are unfair on this one fatal, even if you posted great exemples i agree with.
the thing is Steve Nash is not 39 (i mean 37 and 39 is a huge difference for guards) and the fact that all those guys don't have retired for 3 years just before...plus, the way he played this pretended band of "new superstars".
remember he put 45pts against the nba finalist...

[andgar923]

I still can't see how people find it 'appalling' that Kobe is ranked where he is, and that somebody such as Charles is ranked higher.

I know Kobe fans hate 'stats' (unless they're in their favor), but if we look at the important stats such as 'Win Shares', 'Offensive Win Shares', 'Defensive Win Shares', etc.etc. in both regular season and playoffs, Barkley is better than Kobe in almost all of them.

Barkley comes in lower than Kobe in the MVP overall ranking, but Chuck played in an era with more competition for the MVP.

Seriously.... have some of you forgotten how great Charles was? how much of a force he was? the fat fu*ck used to dominate games just as much as Kobe does. Do we need Sir Charles to come up in here with his crayons to remind you fu#ckers?

I'm not saying that Chuck is better than Kobe, but it isn't something that's appalling or reaching.

[ginobli2311]

Brandon Jennings (for most people the least efficient perimeter player who matters in the league) is more efficient than Jordan was that season. 22.9 shots on 22.1 shots (41.6 FG%, 19 3pt%, 46.8 TS%) is not impressive at all. He had impressive games, but lets not act like he did something inhuman.

Steve Nash is 37 and averaging 18/4/10 on amazing efficiency. THAT is impressive. Kareem winning finals MVP at age 38 against a great Celtic team is way more impressive. Bird at 36 not being able to run, and having many many more injury problems than Jordan and still putting up 20/10/7 is much more impressive. Malone at 39 with way more mileage putting up 22/9/4? More impressive. Schrempf at 37 putting up 15/7/4 on much better efficiency? Just as impressive. Wizards Jordan wasn't doing anything more impressive than Sam Cassell in his mid 30s. He did about as well as you would expect a player of his talent level to do, but lets not act like he was playing like a world beater. Many other players have done just as much, if not more, with more mileage on their legs.

I disagree a little. He was carrying the scoring load for a bad team and he was hurt. The numbers alone of course are not mind blowing, but its the circumstances. Before his injury his fg% was close to 45% i believe and he was scoring slightly over 25 points per game if I remember correctly.

Put that in perspective in terms of the NBA back then, not now. Now its is far easier to score from the perimeter than it was back then. 23 points / 6 boards / 5 assists at age 38-39 after three years off from the game and struggling with injuries and getting your awful team on the verge of the playoffs and a record of 30-30 in games he played.

Jordan was the 8th best scorer in the league in 2002. That year, Iverson shot 40%, Pierce shot 44%, Kobe shot 47%, T-Mac shot 45%, Vince shot 43%, Walker shot 39%, and Stackhouse shot 40%. I hardly think those numbers blow MJ's efficiency out of the water all things considered. Also consider that a slightly healthier Jordan shot 45% the next year from the field.

But that is not really the point. The point was that people on here were saying MJ would not be able to produce in today's game the same way he did. I find that laughable. The rules change really didn't impact the perimeter game until around the 05 or 06 season and ever since its been so easy for these perimeter guys to score and score efficiently. So at least use the year I'm talking about as a direct reference. If you took the 5 best perimeter scorers that year....the average fg% would be around 43.5%....only slightly better than MJ's efficiency. Again...even with MJ dealing with injuries/age/bad team.

So the dude puts up 23/6/5 at age 38 and you are going to tell me he couldn't put up his normal numbers in his prime after the rules change? I just find that laughable.

You make it sound like he played poorly or something. That is why I don't understand the post. He basically put up Kobe's career numbers on slightly worse efficiency.

The notion that Wizards MJ was not good or somehow hurt his legacy is laughable and the notion that MJ could not dominate the current league is also laughable.

[RoseCity07]

I liked that video. Kobe really is one of the most skilled players to ever play. That sh*t he does on the court is quite amazing. Wonder what would have happened if he didn't crybaby his way to force Charlotte to trade him to LA. We'd be talking about him as another Allen Iverson.

I think Lebron is the MVP of this league though. No one has as much value as Lebron. It is just that simple.

[The Iron Fist]

Me and MrJohnWall already brought this moron to tears but just to beat the dead horse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWXvi8waXyA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8nEqiEZQ30
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZOXZea1iGk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDpPrdF6ANs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4p0vfX6j1Pw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlusnThciI4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xqLrgyVIAE


"But Kobe has no impact on the game":rant

[necya]

just wanna know who are those morons putting bad rep (i don't care for that) with insults without putting his name....
kobe homers aren't enough adult to assume their words, maybe scared of being owned on the internet place?

[Ne 1]

Wonder what would have happened if he didn't crybaby his way to force Charlotte to trade him to LA.

:oldlol: @ this revisionist history.

"The deal was actually done a day ahead of time, and it was Vlade for a player to be named," said Bill Branch, the Hornets' head scout at the time who still operates out of Charlotte as a scout for the Seattle-now-Oklahoma City Sonics. "If I remember right, they didn't even tell us who they wanted us to pick until about five minutes before the pick was made. So it was never a matter of us actually drafting Kobe."

The trade was more about the Lakers' pursuit of Shaquille O'Neal in free agency and the Hornets' need to acquire a center than it was about Bryant.

In order to get far enough under the salary cap to make a valid pitch to O'Neal, the Lakers needed to unload Divac's contract, preferably to a team under the salary cap and preferably for a draft pick. The Hornets had traded Alonzo Mourning the previous year, were without a bona-fide center, and were well under the cap after renouncing the rights to free agent Kenny Anderson. They would trade Larry Johnson to New York for Anthony Mason later that summer.

The Hornets reasoned that they could come out of the draft with no better than Vitaly Potapenko or Todd Fuller if they drafted a center, and jumped at the chance to trade the 13th pick for Divac.

"When you look back at it, when we made that trade, here was a 17-year-old kid who had played in high school," said Bob Bass, the Hornets' executive vice president of basketball operations at the time. "Twelve other teams passed on him. We made a decision to win now and not later. We had Dave Cowens as our first-year coach, and I wanted to give him a chance to win. I knew if we got Divac in here, we'd win. I didn't feel the same about Bryant. Without Divac, I thought we might have won 25 games."

The Hornets won 54 games, then a franchise record, the next season with Divac.

The Lakers might have been high on Bryant, but this was more about clearing up the cap room to make a run at O'Neal, whose contract was up in Orlando. Marc Fleisher, Divac's agent, remembers that the Lakers had a trade worked out to send Divac to Atlanta for the 25th pick if anything fell through with the Hornets. Had that scenario played out, there's little or no way that Bryant would have fallen all the way to the 25th pick, so Bryant and the Lakers couldn't have orchestrated anything.

"There were three teams involved at first -- Charlotte, Atlanta and Sacramento," Fleisher said. "Sacramento didn't work out for whatever reason, and then it was basically Charlotte or Atlanta. They asked us where Vlade would rather go, and he said Charlotte."

Divac later threatened to retire shortly after the deal was announced, and that would have nixed the trade. But Cowens talked him out of that threat, and the trade became official. After a few more minor deals and cap moves, the Lakers had enough cap room to sign O'Neal -- with Bryant, 17, as icing on the summer-acquisition cake.

Branch scouted Bryant twice for the Hornets while Bryant was at Lower Merion H.S., but he said that the Hornets "never even considered him" as a player they would draft and keep. Bass was an old-school GM who liked to deal but didn't usually gamble on young players.

Branch recalls how difficult it was to gauge Bryant's talents against inferior high-school competition. This was an era before it became fashionable to draft high-school players, before Kwame Brown, Dwight Howard and LeBron James were No. 1 picks straight out of high school.

Branch believes that the Lakers' Jerry West was probably gambling on Bryant to a degree, because that was West's style. And if Bryant didn't pan out, the Lakers would still get O'Neal in the process.

"Jerry West might be the only person who can really answer that, but I just think it (Bryant's stardom) would be very hard to predict, because you've got stories of guys who turned out good and stories of guys who turned out bad," Branch said. "The year before, L.A. wasn't even in the draft and they made a move to get into the second round at the last second, and they picked Frankie King out of Western Carolina. They specifically made a move to get one kid. So when you see moves like that and then they go for Kobe, you've got to think they're taking stabs.

"And I don't mean that negatively. I just mean for someone to say now that they knew Michael Jordan was going to be what he was, they're kidding themselves. We all thought Kobe was going to be good. But how do you really know?"

You don't. And that's why the Hornets were never anything but facilitators for the Lakers.

Fourteen years later, obviously, it has worked out well for the Lakers. But the Hornets didn't get coerced into anything.

[MrJohnWall]

Ne 1= GOAT POSTER
Hand out more sonnings Then adoption agencies
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[zizozain]

I think this xkcd comic sums up this particular situation best:
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png



Originally Posted by chazzy
^ :lol I think that's been used several times for ginobli

:lol


Originally Posted by MrJohnWall
Ne 1= GOAT POSTER
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

did he shit on ginobly321 and brucy ?

[MrJohnWall]

:lol



did he shit on ginobly321 and brucy ?
bruce ran

Ginboili had a melt down and almost broke his keyboard :oldlol:
he was so mad he couldnt even put a coherent sentence together

he never played with both of them on the same team.

what happened to kobe in 05. kobe's team was ten games under .500 that season when he played.

jordan's team was .500 in the games he played.

23/6/5 at age 38 while injured. LOL....about kobe's career averages. at age 38 and injured. hahahahahahaha. before the rules changes. hahahahahah.

owned. mother ****ing owned. god damn this feels good. can you feel it? can you?

mother ****ing owned.

GTFO morons. owned. owned owned. 23 points at age 38 while injured. team was .500 when he played. kobe was ten games under .500 in his prime with a better team. hahahahahahhaha.

just so good. just so good.

you mad? hell yea you mad?

jordan owns kobe. everyone with a brain knows this. its awesome. you can't say anything. you can't change history. at age 38 and injured jordan was putting up 23/6/5....ahahahahahhahahaahahahahahahhahahahah
just so good, just so good?:wtf:
Kid was hysterical

[AirJordan&Magic]

I still can't see how people find it 'appalling' that Kobe is ranked where he is, and that somebody such as Charles is ranked higher.

I know Kobe fans hate 'stats' (unless they're in their favor), but if we look at the important stats such as 'Win Shares', 'Offensive Win Shares', 'Defensive Win Shares', etc.etc. in both regular season and playoffs, Barkley is better than Kobe in almost all of them.

Barkley comes in lower than Kobe in the MVP overall ranking, but Chuck played in an era with more competition for the MVP.

Seriously.... have some of you forgotten how great Charles was? how much of a force he was? the fat fu*ck used to dominate games just as much as Kobe does. Do we need Sir Charles to come up in here with his crayons to remind you fu#ckers?

I'm not saying that Chuck is better than Kobe, but it isn't something that's appalling or reaching.

Your right, saying that Charles Barkley is better than Kobe as an individual player is not reaching and is agreeable. It can actually be argued either way for both players...

But saying that Charles Barkley is a greater player than Kobe in terms of all time rankings is completely ridiculous to me. There is no argument that Chuck has to be ranked over Kobe, imo.

I don't need a homer like Sir Charles tto write his colorful text about Chuck. I know how great Charles was. I saw him play..... I have even said many times on this forum that, he was the most gifted offensive pf of all time.

Noone is taking anything away from Chuck but 9 times out of 10, when there is not a Kobe homer hyping him up, it is taken for granted how good Kobe really is.

[Heilige]

I still can't see how people find it 'appalling' that Kobe is ranked where he is, and that somebody such as Charles is ranked higher.

I know Kobe fans hate 'stats' (unless they're in their favor), but if we look at the important stats such as 'Win Shares', 'Offensive Win Shares', 'Defensive Win Shares', etc.etc. in both regular season and playoffs, Barkley is better than Kobe in almost all of them.

Barkley comes in lower than Kobe in the MVP overall ranking, but Chuck played in an era with more competition for the MVP.

Seriously.... have some of you forgotten how great Charles was? how much of a force he was? the fat fu*ck used to dominate games just as much as Kobe does. Do we need Sir Charles to come up in here with his crayons to remind you fu#ckers?

I'm not saying that Chuck is better than Kobe, but it isn't something that's appalling or reaching.


Charles Barkley himself ranked Kobe Bryant over him.

[andgar923]

Your right, saying that Charles Barkley is better than Kobe as an individual player is not reaching and is agreeable. It can actually be argued either way for both players...

But saying that Charles Barkley is a greater player than Kobe in terms of all time rankings is completely ridiculous to me. There is no argument that Chuck has to be ranked over Kobe, imo.

I don't need a homer like Sir Charles tto write his colorful text about Chuck. I know how great Charles was. I saw him play..... I have even said many times on this forum that, he was the most gifted offensive pf of all time.

Noone is taking anything away from Chuck but 9 times out of 10, when there is not a Kobe homer hyping him up, it is taken for granted how good Kobe really is.

Disagree.

Kobe benefitted from being in a better situation than Charles.

There is nothing that other top hall of famers couldn't have achieved if they were in his place.

A reason I mentioned the 'shares' stats is because it supports that belief. I'm not really impressed at how Kobe got his rings.... sorry. I think that other great hall of famers could have produced the same and often better than he has.

I'm not overlooking or taking for granted Kobe's achievements.

Actually the opposite.

We can look at the videos and we can look at the stats, his performances (when looked at within their context) are overrated when we judge them against the all time greats, including Barkley's.

[AirJordan&Magic]

Disagree.

Kobe benefitted from being in a better situation than Charles.

There is nothing that other top hall of famers couldn't have achieved if they were in his place.

A reason I mentioned the 'shares' stats is because it supports that belief. I'm not really impressed at how Kobe got his rings.... sorry. I think that other great hall of famers could have produced the same and often better than he has.

I'm not overlooking or taking for granted Kobe's achievements.

Actually the opposite.

We can look at the videos and we can look at the stats, his performances (when looked at within their context) are overrated when we judge them against the all time greats, including Barkley's.

I honestly do not care about "advanced stats" like win shares, per, or any of that crap. Win shares is a stat that was created for baseball and no one can properly break down the forumula that is used to determine this statistic, so it means nothing to me.

"There is nothing that other top hall of famers couldn't have achieved if they were in his place"...... How do you know this?? There is no evidence to back this statement up, so it means nothing.

And how are his performances overrated? :facepalm
Hoenstly, if you're not impressed with how Kobe got his rings, that's on you. But I appreciate greatness when i see it.

[andgar923]

I honestly do not care about "advanced stats" like win shares, per, or any of that crap. Win shares is a stat that was created for baseball and no one can properly break down the forumula that is used to determine this statistic, so it means nothing to me.

"There is nothing that other top hall of famers couldn't have achieved if they were in his place"...... How do you know this?? There is no evidence to back this statement up, so it means nothing.

And how are his performances overrated? :facepalm
Hoenstly, if you're not impressed with how Kobe got his rings, that's on you. But I appreciate greatness when i see it.

I can dig somebody not caring about stats (or advanced stats for this matter), but when they're consistently in favor of the other it has to be taken under consideration, no? If it was just one or two and the difference was minimal I can understand ignoring them. But that aint the case here.... they have to be taken under consideration.

As far as his performances.....

Its a taken that he has to perform great, he's an all time great.

My thing is, other all time greats have performed just as great and often better.... because well.... they have too. While Kobe performed great, other greats have done so as well.

But, when we compare the performances (stats aside), Kobe always leaves something to be desired when compared to the all time greats, sorry. Once we get to the upper echelon of the greats, they've all had big plays, they've all had their big moments, they've all led their teams... again.... that's a given. Barkley like Kobe has done some great things, so have other of the greats. That isn't overlooking or taking him for granted, that's taking things under context.

[32jazz]

Charles Barkley himself ranked Kobe Bryant over him.

And Barkley is not known for his modesty.

This is why I eventually conceded that magic was not the GOAT when he said that MJ/Russell was better than himself.

Considering Magic doesn't consider himself greater I hardly try to make a serious case for Magic anymore. STill my favorite layer of all time.

[AirJordan&Magic]

I can dig somebody not caring about stats (or advanced stats for this matter), but when they're consistently in favor of the other it has to be taken under consideration, no? If it was just one or two and the difference was minimal I can understand ignoring them. But that aint the case here.... they have to be taken under consideration.

As far as his performances.....

Its a taken that he has to perform great, he's an all time great.

My thing is, other all time greats have performed just as great and often better.... because well.... they have too. While Kobe performed great, other greats have done so as well.

But, when we compare the performances (stats aside), Kobe always leaves something to be desired when compared to the all time greats, sorry. Once we get to the upper echelon of the greats, they've all had big plays, they've all had their big moments, they've all led their teams... again.... that's a given. Barkley like Kobe has done some great things, so have other of the greats. That isn't overlooking or taking him for granted, that's taking things under context.

Why should they be taken into consideration if no one here can really give a thorough breakdown on these statistics? I don't understand why made up stats like those are important to people.

And yes, the upper echelon of greats meaning Michael Jordan, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Bill Russell, Magic Johnson, Wilt, even Shaq. Guys who actually performed on a completely different level than Kobe did...... Barkley is not one of those guys. Nowhere near that level.

Barkley has not "often played better" than Kobe.

[PHILA]

He says he put Kobe @ 17 for being a bad teammate in the past as one reason yet he has Oscar Robertson at #8 who his teammates disliked. Oscar Robertson was not only considered bad teammate, but he led his team to only one 50+ win season as the #1 guy. This guy lacked team success, disliked by teammates, he put up inflated stats, yet he is 9 spots ahead of Kobe. .Players like Smush Parker and Kwame Brown also disliked Bryant. You gonna hold that against him?

[Disaprine]

thread has been derailed :lol considering whos the op its well deserving of course. :applause:

[32jazz]

Jordan faced shorter defenders than what players like Kobe and LeBron see today. Best defenders on Jordan are generally considered to be:

Starks: 6'2
Dumars: 6'3
Payton 6'4

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii250/harty413/9495CharlotteMuggsyBoguesDefence.jpg

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/4107/111111111111111111.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_OR1l8Wilj1M/SIlphcbPbjI/AAAAAAAABpg/em1Ol-NTo7s/s400/jordan-drexler2.jpg

He was able to back his shorter defender in the post and take advantage of that.

Today almost every team has a 6''8 or 6''9 swing man.
Here are some real ballers, many who are elite defenders and 20+ ppg scorers - these are the guys Kobe and Lebron face:

Kevin Durant 6''9
Lebron 6''9 (260 lbs)
AK47 6''9
J. Wright 6''9
T.Prince 6''9
A.Jamison 6'9
D.Granger 6''9
L.Deng 6''9
S. Battier 6''8
W.Chandler 6''8
B.Outlaw6''8
S.Marion 6''8
P. Pierce: 6''8
J. Posey 6''8
J.Johnson: 6''8
A. Harrington: 6''8
K.Martin 6''8
S.Jackson 6''8
J. Hayes 6''8
A. Iguadala 6'8
Carmelo 6''8
J. Green 6''8
G. Wallace 6''8
B. Bowen 6''7
R. Artest: 6''7 (260 lbs)

Players are stronger and taller today- no doubt about it. Everything get's better with time.


You have defensive specialists today like Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest, Shane Battier, Thabo Sefolosha etc. who are supposed to be ''Kobe-stoppers''.

During Jordan's era the defensive specialists were guys like John Starks. The idea of Starks being a Jordan stopper is ridiculous . When you give up 4 inches and 30 pounds to someone who you'll guard in single coverage (for most the game) in the mid-range perimeter area, then those physical limitations will be almost impossible to overcome.



The 90s defense was 1 on 1 vs. shorter midget defenders in the post all day long on isolations.

Today no body can even post up anymore - Duncan, KG, Shaq, Kobe they are all doubled after 1 or 2 dribbles at the most.

http://alltalksports.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/jordans-game-winner-over-ehlo.jpg

:oldlol:


Jordan's career high is 69 in double over time againt a slow, weak, un-athletic white guy named Craig Ehlo and he thinks he could score 100 today.

I've never got a reasonable response from the worshippers about the FACT that not only MJ & Drexler ,but my favorite(Magic) had larger height advantages at the guard position than Wilt ever had at Center. Most guards then were undersize jumpshooters(6'3 or 6'4 & below) & not the athletic/long slashers of today. PERIOD.


I pick a random season of backcourt players when Mj/Drexler were putting up those good numbers with 50% plus shooting that these worshippers cream their pants about:

aging DJ 6'4
Ainge(SG) -6'3

Cheeks-6'0
Toney(SG)- 6'3

M Adams-5'10
F Lever- 6'3

Leavell- 6'1
S Floyd- 6'3

Thomas- 6'1
Dumars- 6'3(allegedly his best defender of the period)

L Drew- 6-1
Q Dailey- 6'3

Bagley-6'0
Otis Birdsong:oldlol: -6'3

Price-6'0
Ehlo/HArper-6'6

Stockton-6'0
Bob Hansen:facepalm 6'6 & Hornacek-6'3(And they falsely 'claim' Wilt beat up on 6'6 White guys?)

Doc Rivers-6'4
R Wittman("White"man):facepalm 6'6

Garland-6'2
O Smith- 6'5


Moncrief-6'3
Pressey/Pierce- 6'5 Respect

McMillan- 6'5(respect)
D Ellis -6'7(flat foot jumpshooter)

K Smith- 6'3
R Theus-6'7

Fleming -6'4
Long-6'5/ Miller-6'7

G Henderson-6'2

As a Magic fan I have acceprted this size/athletic discrepancy ,but the MJ worshippers cannot. No more FEASTING on the jumshooting guards(who are basically now dinosaurs) of the 80's /early 90's.

[mashbelly]

WE DA BESS tho...