Kobe Bryant, Chasing History!

[Rose]

We all know Kobe Bryant's a great player; one of the best in the world. We make a big deal about his five rings, and him possibly getting a sixth one which would be a great feat! Kobe has some nice records, such as youngest player to get 20,000 points, and also 25,000 points! But there are other all-time records Kobe can legitimately gain before the end of his career too. Not just youngest player to reach 30,000 points which I fully expect him to earn too. Go Kobe!


Another record Kobe Bryant has: He's also the youngest player to reach 10,000 bricks. Postseason not included. Which brings me to the point of the thread.

At the pace Kobe's been at, he will soon reach the most bricks by a player in NBA history. If the legendary Kobe Bryant continues to put up 20 FGAs a game over the remainder of his contract (barring injury!) he will easily surpass the most bricks in NBA history marker which is currently held by John Havlicek at 13,417 shots missed. Kobe recently surpassed Wilt Chamberlain for 9th on the all time list, and should surpass Allen Iverson, and possibly Elgin Baylor later this year is all goes well (or not well! :roll)


Next year, we can watch in amazement as Kobe Bryant climbs the charts, making a strong push for 5th on the all time list. Which puts him within dangerous striking distance of the top three. After three seasons, we should expect to see Kobe join Elvin Hayes and John Havlicek in the elite 13,000 bricks club.

Mutumbo could build a few hospitals with all those bricks! So don't be stingy Kobe.

http://www.salvo.co.uk/images/userimgs/12963/Reclaimed-Luton-Grey-Bricks_42800_1.jpg


20 games into the season, Kobe's currently at 10,997 career bricks. Just 2,420 shy of the title.

Over the last three seasons, Kobe averaged 893 bricks per year. At this rate, he will eclipse.John Havlicek's total bricks either by the tail end of the 2013 season, or the very beginning of the 2014 season (asuming he misses some games). Even if Kobe decreases his FGAs by 4 per game starting now, he will still eclipse Havlicek during his final season.


So come on Kobe! We're all cheering you on as you chase NBA history, for that dubious honor of most FGAs missed of all time. I wonder if Kobe will retire just short of reaching that goal? Or develop some mysterious injury that the team physicians just can't seem to put a finger on as he closes in for that title during his final season! We shall see!

Let's all enjoy Kobe while we still can. :D


Oh, and for reference, here's a chart of Kobe's shot tendencies in wins and losses.

(Stats not compiled by me. The person who did, PM me if you want me to edit in your name for credit. I left it out so you don't get labeled as a 'Kobe hater' for the mere act of looking up stats)
Kobe's FGA in wins and losses since he became a starter.

1999
wins- 15 FGA, 49.4 FG%
losses- 16.6 FGA, 42.2 FG%

2000
wins- 17.6 FGA, 48.1 FG%
losses- 19.6 FGA, 41.2 FG%

2001
wins- 21.9 FGA, 48.6 FG%
losses- 22.9 FGA, 42.4 FG%

2002
wins- 19 FGA, 49.5 FG%
losses- 22.2 FGA, 41.7 FG%

2003
wins- 23.3 FGA, 48 FG%
losses- 23.8 FGA, 40.7 FG%

2004
wins- 17.7 FGA, 46.2 FG%
losses- 19.4 FGA, 37.6 FG%

2005
wins- 19.6 FGA, 47 FG%
losses- 20.4 FGA, 40.6 FG%

2006
wins- 26.8 FGA, 47.6 FG%
losses- 27.6 FGA, 41.8 FG%

2007
wins- 22.3 FGA, 50.3 FG%
losses- 23.3 FGA, 42.3 FG%

2008
wins- 19.3 FGA, 48 FG%
losses- 23.6 FGA, 41.8 FG%

2009
wins- 19.5 FGA, 47.9 FG%
losses-26.1 FGA, 43.3 FG%

2010
wins- 20.6 FGA, 47.5 FG%
losses- 23.6 FGA, 41.9 FG%

2011 (19 games into the season, which is when the stats were compiled)
wins- 18.8 FGA, 43.3 FG%
losses- 25.8 FGA, 41.9 FG%


What an amazing player. I can't say enough how great it is to watch a great basketball player show amazing self-control when his team's down and look to get his teammates involved rather than try to be the hero all by himself. Too bad I don't get to see that when I watch Kobe Bryant. Well-deserving of the all time bricks leader award, which he is destined to earn.

Kobe Brickant at work:

http://blogs.thescore.com.s3.amazonaws.com/tbj/files/2010/10/kobe-breaking-bricks.jpg

And to put this FURTHER into perspective also keep in mind he didn't play much his first couple years...and here's the brick leaders



Here's the brick leaders

Career missed shots:

John Havlicek 13,417 shots
Elvin Hayes 13,296 shots
Karl Malone 12,682 shots
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
12,470 shots
Michael Jordan 12,345 shots
Dominique Wilkins 11,626 shots
Elgin Baylor 11,478 shots
Allen Iverson 11,418 shots
Wilt Chamberlain 10,816 shots
Kobe Bryant 10,501 shots
Alex English 10,377 shots
Hal Greer 10,307 shots
Bob Cousy 10,300 shots
Hakeem Olajuwon 10,242 shots
Oscar Robertson 10,112 shots
Jerry West 10,016 shots

[SinJackal]

Whoa :\ I wonder what that's going to do for Kobe's legacy as a scorer.

Crazy stats there. Never knew that.

[tpols]

negged.

[Ruh-Roh]

Okay. I'll ask what everyone here is dying to know....where does MJ fall on that list?

Great Post though man :cheers:


negged.

Like your rep means shit to anyone let alone that guy. :lolneg me *****!

[Rose]

Okay. I'll ask what everyone here is dying to know....where does MJ fall on that list?

Great Post though man :cheers:
For most bricks? or makes?

and thanks:cheers:

[necya]

that's amazing the difference of FGA in the losses...the guy want his 30pts, no matter how many shots it takes !

i believe if i remember well in 07 he was the 2nd less efficient scorer for 40pts games, i guess behind iverson.

[Batz]

I lol'd.

[Rose]

I lol'd.
u :mad: ?

I even like Kobe I just found this interesting.

[DuMa]

great thought out post A++ will read again

[Batz]

The last pic... :roll:

[Ruh-Roh]

For most bricks? or makes?

and thanks:cheers:

Both, although bricks was what I was interested with names like Hondo, Baylor, Iverson, Hayes & Wilt having numbers next to them to compare.

[VanillaThunder]

For most bricks? or makes?

and thanks:cheers:


Jordan for his career:

Regular season: 12345 misses (12,192-24,537)
Playoffs: 2309 misses (2,188-4,497)
All Star: 123 misses (110-233)

14777 total misses



This stat isn't exactly one that scrubs get. If you are taking that many shots, you can bet you are the star of the team. I'd bet everyone in the top 20 has really high usage stats too.

For Kobe to have the career he has had (and is still having) he was bound to end up on this list. Especially considering how young he was when he came into the league.

[tpols]

MJ missed 12345 FG in 15 years.

Kobe only missed less than 10997 in 14 years.

MJ will have missed more field goals in the 15 year sample than kobe (because kobe won't reach MJ's total by the end of this year).

So technically MJ is the king of missed FGs since he has the most in the shortest time frame.

So all this really shows is how irrelevant and misleading that is since everyone still considers jordan the goat.:confusedshrug:

[Rose]

MJ missed 12345 FG in 15 years.

Kobe only missed less than 10997 in 14 years.

MJ will have missed more field goals in the 15 year sample than kobe (because kobe won't reach MJ's total by the end of this year).

So technically MJ is the king of missed FGs since he has the most in the shortest time frame.

So all this really shows is how irrelevant and misleading that is since everyone still considers jordan the goat.:confusedshrug:
Jordan also shot 49% for his career, AND didn't play with prime Shaq, who was as dominant as Jordan.

[Batz]

Jordan also shot 49% for his career, AND didn't play with prime Shaq, who was as dominant as Jordan.
15 pages atleast.

[Rose]

Here's the brick leaders

Career missed shots:

John Havlicek 13,417 shots
Elvin Hayes 13,296 shots
Karl Malone 12,682 shots
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
12,470 shots
Michael Jordan 12,345 shots
Dominique Wilkins 11,626 shots
Elgin Baylor 11,478 shots
Allen Iverson 11,418 shots
Wilt Chamberlain 10,816 shots
Kobe Bryant 10,501 shots
Alex English 10,377 shots
Hal Greer 10,307 shots
Bob Cousy 10,300 shots
Hakeem Olajuwon 10,242 shots
Oscar Robertson 10,112 shots
Jerry West 10,016 shots

[G.O.A.T]

Very nice work.

I've always felt like Kobe's penchant to force the issue comes not from selfishness, but from the overwhelming desire he has to win. I wonder how often he shot 11-30 on a night where 3 of the other four guys on the court were mailing it in and he was trying to do it all himself in the name of winning.

I'll be the first to criticize Bryant's role in breaking up the Shaq/Kobe combo and costing them at least two titles with his desire to get top billing over a more physically gifted but less hard working and skilled player in Shaq. He should have understood the value of Shaq and that it was necessary for him to stay second fiddle longer. To me they should still be playing together, they should have gone out both as Lakers, Kareem and Magic style, but I knew that would never happen.

Most important point I am making, good work Rose!

[Rose]

15 pages atleast.
Probably. I forgot arguably my bad?:confusedshrug:

[necya]

15 pages atleast.
:D

[thejumpa]

Oh man....you done did it now. At least you are telling the truth and not trolling. Good work.

[Rose]

Very nice work.

I've always felt like Kobe's penchant to force the issue comes not from selfishness, but from the overwhelming desire he has to win. I wonder how often he shot 11-30 on a night where 3 of the other four guys on the court were mailing it in and he was trying to do it all himself in the name of winning.

I'll be the first to criticize Bryant's role in breaking up the Shaq/Kobe combo and costing them at least two titles with his desire to get top billing over a more physically gifted but less hard working and skilled player in Shaq. He should have understood the value of Shaq and that it was necessary for him to stay second fiddle longer. To me they should still be playing together, they should have gone out both as Lakers, Kareem and Magic style, but I knew that would never happen.

Most important point I am making, good work Rose!
That means ALOT GOAT coming from you. I'm sure the guy who helped me out with the stats differential in games will be happy as well.

I mean Kobe can be and is an amazing prolific scorer, at times. But that's the problem it's at times. I agree they should have stayed together longer, alas egos collided.

And thanks alot!

[Ruh-Roh]

15 pages atleast.
YESSS. Can of worms successfully opened.:D

[gts]

Kobe is not as high on the list as the op makes it out to be
he says kobe is at 10,997

regular season misses career

kareem 12,470
malone 12,682
jordan 12,345
wilkins 11,625
baylor 11,478
iverson 11,439

stopped there, there's more though

[Rose]

Kobe is not as high on the list as the op makes it out to be
he says kobe is at 10,997

regular season misses career

kareem 12,470
malone 12,682
jordan 12,345
wilkins 11,625
baylor 11,478
iverson 11,439

stopped there, there's more though
When you factor in age there's more though. ALOT more to come which is the point.

[SinJackal]

MJ missed 12345 FG in 15 years.

Kobe only missed less than 10997 in 14 years.

MJ will have missed more field goals in the 15 year sample than kobe (because kobe won't reach MJ's total by the end of this year).

So technically MJ is the king of missed FGs since he has the most in the shortest time frame.

So all this really shows is how irrelevant and misleading that is since everyone still considers jordan the goat.:confusedshrug:



Jordan for his career:

Regular season: 12345 misses (12,192-24,537)
Playoffs: 2309 misses (2,188-4,497)
All Star: 123 misses (110-233)

14777 total misses



This stat isn't exactly one that scrubs get. If you are taking that many shots, you can bet you are the star of the team. I'd bet everyone in the top 20 has really high usage stats too.

For Kobe to have the career he has had (and is still having) he was bound to end up on this list. Especially considering how young he was when he came into the league.

Postseason isn't included in regular season FGAs missed.

Kobe has an additional 2,213 misses in the playoffs. After this next season, he will surpass Jordan in playoff misses.

While Jordan has 12,345 misses (which Kobe will clearly surpass within 2 seasons), he also happens to have 12,192 career makes (postseason not included). Kobe doesn't even have 10,000 career makes. By time he eclipses Jordan's 12,345, he might not even have 10,000 makes yet, as he's only at 9,152 now.

Will Kobe get 848 FGMs in his next 1,348 attemps? That's a FG% of 62.9%. So the odds (for Kobe) doing that, are as close to 0% as they can possibly get. He'll have more misses than Jordan, with over 2,000 less makes.

He's also the youngest player to get 10,000 misses. We trump up Kobe for youngest to score points, but he's doing so at an exponential rate of missing as well.

So while Jordan has plenty of misses, he has nearly as many makes at the same time. Kobe's makes are nowhere near his amount of misses. As he misses 55% of his shots. Some like to make the agrument, "oh, a few FG% difference is like 1-2 shots a game!) True, but over a career, it's over 2,000. Quite clearly.

[Batz]

When you factor in age there's more though. ALOT more to come which is the point.
You factor in seasons it's pretty irrelevant too.

[Jr Llaban]

Good thread, hate that it had to become MJ vs Kobe.

[DuMa]

Kobe hasnt been a starter in his first few years so that factors a lot into the stat

[Rose]

You factor in seasons it's pretty irrelevant too.
How so? I already posted the career bricks. It's not like I'm skipping over anything. or magically factoring in pre-season

[Batz]

How so? I already posted the career bricks. It's not like I'm skipping over anything. or magically factoring in pre-season
I will do the math as soon as my thumb stops swelling.

Good thread, hate that it had to become MJ vs Kobe.
story of ish life

[Rose]

I will do the math as soon as my thumb stops swelling.

okey dokey.

[tamaraw08]

Great research Rose esp for those Kobe worshippers.
I am a Laker fan and. I don't like it when Kobe takes a ton of shots but I take the good with the bad. At times Kobe would have to take those shots to save his team.
The data puts some more perspective that we should not not just focus on LIMITED facts but the totality.
I want to know though, If you can put also the negative stats when ESPN was putting Lebron James on their pedestal in his rookie year.
ESPN, almost every week would state James as youngest guy to score, rebounded, assisted etc etc. Heck they never put, youngest player to brick this many shots, or to commit this many turnovers.
My point is, James also played extensively in his rookie year UNLIKE Bryant and yet they NEVER focussed on his NEGATIVE stats.

[Papaya Petee]

Hahah I can't rep you because I have to spread the love around first, but I know you are going to get negged a million times for this, great thread tho.

[gts]

You factor in seasons it's pretty irrelevant too.exactly... he's in his 15th season age has nothing to do with it per se... not many folks will have racked up 18 seasons? assuming he stays that long when it's all said and done he'll lead or be at the top of some categories because he was good some for other reasons and some strictly because he played so long

[Rose]

Great research Rose esp for those Kobe worshippers.
I am a Laker fan and. I don't like it when Kobe takes a ton of shots but I take the good with the bad. At times Kobe would have to take those shots to save his team.
The data puts some more perspective that we should not not just focus on LIMITED facts but the totality.
I want to know though, If you can put also the negative stats when ESPN was putting Lebron James on their pedestal in his rookie year.
ESPN, almost every week would state James as youngest guy to score, rebounded, assisted etc etc. Heck they never put, youngest player to brick this many shots, or to commit this many turnovers.
My point is, James also played extensively in his rookie year UNLIKE Bryant and yet they NEVER focussed on his NEGATIVE stats.
Why thank you my friend.:cheers:

I also thought of the Prince as well, but I was like...save that for another day.

[Rose]

exactly... he's in his 15th season age has nothing to do with it per se... not many folks that will have racked up 18 seasons? assuming he stay that long when it's all said and done he'll lead or be at the top of some categories because he was good some for other reasons and some strictly because he played so long
SO WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT

We're gonna focus on the fact he was the youngest to score so many points? but not bricks? you can't have it both ways.

[Ruh-Roh]

Why thank you my friend.:cheers:

I also thought of the Prince as well, but I was like...save that for another day.

Let it get to like page 8 first.

[Batz]

SO WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT

We're gonna focus on the fact he was the youngest to score so many points? but not bricks? you can't have it both ways.
We're not ESPN. Well, not most of us. We don't vary by age in this modern day. We go by seasons and minutes played and then there's several other stats that you factor in aswell.

[Rose]

We're not ESPN. Well, not most of us. We don't vary by age in this modern day. We go by seasons and minutes played and then there's several other stats that you factor in aswell.
Regardless, if you take the shot you take the shot. We can all agree Wilt, MJ, West, Malone, Kareem they all played around 20 seasons. Which is what Kobe will play. The point is, he doesn't shoot as well as those guys did.

I look at it this way Favre has the most TDs and picks mostly because he played so long.

[N0Skillz]

We're not ESPN. Well, not most of us. We don't vary by age in this modern day. We go by seasons and minutes played and then there's several other stats that you factor in aswell.


I would rep you but, I was attacked by racists in the off thread forum =p.

Kobe's been in the NBA for a long time of course he is going to have alot of missed shots because he has been the primary offense for his team for so many years.

[oh the horror]

Here's the brick leaders

Career missed shots:

John Havlicek 13,417 shots
Elvin Hayes 13,296 shots
Karl Malone 12,682 shots
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
12,470 shots
Michael Jordan 12,345 shots
Dominique Wilkins 11,626 shots
Elgin Baylor 11,478 shots
Allen Iverson 11,418 shots
Wilt Chamberlain 10,816 shots
Kobe Bryant 10,501 shots
Alex English 10,377 shots
Hal Greer 10,307 shots
Bob Cousy 10,300 shots
Hakeem Olajuwon 10,242 shots
Oscar Robertson 10,112 shots
Jerry West 10,016 shots



This is an interesting list.....How does that one saying go? You miss all of the shots you dont take?

[Rose]

Kobe's been in the NBA for a long time of course he is going to have alot of missed shots because he has been the primary offense for his team for so many years.
Like what 7 years?

[N0Skillz]

Like what 7 years?


how about when he started averaging 15 FGA a game

[Ruh-Roh]

Like what 7 years?
Oh man you seriously do not even care one bit, do you....lol
http://www.angelfire.com/home/lake/images/bait8.gif

[Quizno]

looks like kobe's in pretty good company there with wilt chamberlain, elgin baylor, michael jordan, dominique wilkins and kareem. way to go, kobe. anytime your name is mentioned with those guys you know you're doing something right.

[tpols]

Regardless, if you take the shot you take the shot. We can all agree Wilt, MJ, West, Malone, Kareem they all played around 20 seasons. Which is what Kobe will play. The point is, he doesn't shoot as well as those guys did.

I look at it this way Favre has the most TDs and picks mostly because he played so long.
LOL you're comparing kobe to the greatest guard of all time and a bunch of centers that scored all of their points five feet from the basket. No shit they were more efficient!:oldlol:

[Rose]

how about when he started averaging 15 FGA a game
Well there's a difference between main option Kobe(post-Shaq) and chucking 15 or more shots, because he wanted to be the main option. so 15 FGA is a bad idea.

[Rose]

LOL you're comparing kobe to the greatest guard of all time and a bunch of centers that scored all of their points five feet from the basket. No shit they were more efficient!:oldlol:
Fine add in Havlicek and ALL THE OTHERS Baylor, West etc etc

Fact remains he's gonna have the most bricks. y u :mad: ?

[Rose]

Oh man you seriously do not even care one bit, do you....lol
http://www.angelfire.com/home/lake/images/bait8.gif
Hell no! I do this shit right.:rockon:

[the_wise_one]

Very good thread. Kobe "Bricklayer" Bryant sounds better than that retarded Mamba gag.

[N0Skillz]

Well there's a difference between main option Kobe(post-Shaq) and chucking 15 or more shots, because he wanted to be the main option. so 15 FGA is a bad idea.



I never said main option... :violin: :violin: :violin:


I said apart of the primary offense. :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm


You need to stop hatin

[Rose]

I never said main option...

I said apart of the primary offense.
You need to stop hatin
Ohhh fine show me a site that has when he started taking over 15 a game.

[N0Skillz]

Kobe's FGA in wins and losses since he became a starter.

1999
wins- 15 FGA, 49.4 FG%
losses- 16.6 FGA, 42.2 FG%

2000
wins- 17.6 FGA, 48.1 FG%
losses- 19.6 FGA, 41.2 FG%

2001
wins- 21.9 FGA, 48.6 FG%
losses- 22.9 FGA, 42.4 FG%

2002
wins- 19 FGA, 49.5 FG%
losses- 22.2 FGA, 41.7 FG%

2003
wins- 23.3 FGA, 48 FG%
losses- 23.8 FGA, 40.7 FG%

2004
wins- 17.7 FGA, 46.2 FG%
losses- 19.4 FGA, 37.6 FG%

2005
wins- 19.6 FGA, 47 FG%
losses- 20.4 FGA, 40.6 FG%

2006
wins- 26.8 FGA, 47.6 FG%
losses- 27.6 FGA, 41.8 FG%

2007
wins- 22.3 FGA, 50.3 FG%
losses- 23.3 FGA, 42.3 FG%

2008
wins- 19.3 FGA, 48 FG%
losses- 23.6 FGA, 41.8 FG%

2009
wins- 19.5 FGA, 47.9 FG%
losses-26.1 FGA, 43.3 FG%

2010
wins- 20.6 FGA, 47.5 FG%
losses- 23.6 FGA, 41.9 FG%

2011 (19 games into the season, which is when the stats were compiled)
wins- 18.8 FGA, 43.3 FG%
losses- 25.8 FGA, 41.9 FG%


You wrote it yourself

[Rose]

You wrote it yourself
Meaning that...for 11 seasons he's been doing this.

Now calculate how many misses everyone else had through 11, once they started taking 15 fga

And then we can have a good conversation.

[Rose]

Anyone else got something good to add to this conversation?

[N0Skillz]

Regardless, if you take the shot you take the shot. We can all agree Wilt, MJ, West, Malone, Kareem they all played around 20 seasons. Which is what Kobe will play. The point is, he doesn't shoot as well as those guys did.

I look at it this way Favre has the most TDs and picks mostly because he played so long.

Kobe Bryant has played 14 seasons

Not Around 20
MJ played 15 seasons
West Played 14 seasons?
Wilt Chamberlain 14 seasons


Around 20
Malone 19 seasons
Kareem 20 seasons.

[Rose]

Kobe Bryant has played 14 seasons

Not Around 20
MJ played 15 seasons
West Played 14 seasons?
Wilt Chamberlain 14 seasons


Around 20
Malone 19 seasons
Kareem 20 seasons.
Was Kobe taking 15 fga his first three years? NO he seldom made it off the bench his first year, his second year, he was a good role player and then he became more involved.

[eliteballer]

Here's the brick leaders

Career missed shots:

John Havlicek 13,417 shots
Elvin Hayes 13,296 shots
Karl Malone 12,682 shots
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
12,470 shots
Michael Jordan 12,345 shots
Dominique Wilkins 11,626 shots
Elgin Baylor 11,478 shots
Allen Iverson 11,418 shots
Wilt Chamberlain 10,816 shots
Kobe Bryant 10,501 shots
Alex English 10,377 shots
Hal Greer 10,307 shots
Bob Cousy 10,300 shots
Hakeem Olajuwon 10,242 shots
Oscar Robertson 10,112 shots
Jerry West 10,016 shots

Yes...Kobe should be ashamed to be a part of that list....ISHiot:roll:

[N0Skillz]

Was Kobe taking 15 fga his first three years? NO he seldom made it off the bench his first year, his second year, he was a good role player and then he became more involved.



Actually he started averaging around 15 his second year

[zay_24]

MJ missed 12345 FG in 15 years.

Kobe only missed less than 10997 in 14 years.

MJ will have missed more field goals in the 15 year sample than kobe (because kobe won't reach MJ's total by the end of this year).

So technically MJ is the king of missed FGs since he has the most in the shortest time frame.

So all this really shows is how irrelevant and misleading that is since everyone still considers jordan the goat.:confusedshrug:
:applause:

[IcanzIIravor]

Was Kobe taking 15 fga his first three years? NO he seldom made it off the bench his first year, his second year, he was a good role player and then he became more involved.

Good thread. As a Laker fan I've learned to take the bad and good with Kobe. Give me 1-3 more rings with Kobe as the lead dog and he can take as many shots as he wants. Looking at the list it looks like they are all H.O.F.'s at a glance.

[MrJohnWall]

MJ missed 12345 FG in 15 years.

Kobe only missed less than 10997 in 14 years.

MJ will have missed more field goals in the 15 year sample than kobe (because kobe won't reach MJ's total by the end of this year).

So technically MJ is the king of missed FGs since he has the most in the shortest time frame.

So all this really shows is how irrelevant and misleading that is since everyone still considers jordan the goat.:confusedshrug:
quoted for emphasism

[StillKill24]

Damn that kobrick :rant

[Rose]

Good thread. As a Laker fan I've learned to take the bad and good with Kobe. Give me 1-3 more rings with Kobe as the lead dog and he can take as many shots as he wants. Looking at the list it looks like they are all H.O.F.'s at a glance.
Exactly, I like Kobe myself. I'm just saying for all the good he does, there's ALOT of bad he does too.

[Mr. Grieves]

Hmmm low FG% for Kobe so far this year. He is either due for some really good games or his bricks will consume all.

[catch24]

I know who you got this from, Rose... Lets just say he came back from hiatus recently. :pimp:

Great research, though. His stat work and/or facts are always on point. This type of stuff won't win you over with the fanbois dude, lol.

[Rose]

I know who you got this from, Rose... Lets just say he came back from his hiatus recently. :pimp:

Great research, though. His stat work and/or facts are always on point. This type of stuff won't win you over with the fanbois dude, lol.
Good, I'm glad someone does. He didn't want credit when I asked so...yeah. Trust me I wouldn't have gotten that far on my own unless I was REALLYYYY bored. lol

[tpols]

I find this thread incredibly ironic considering this guy swings from derrick roses' nuts daily.

[catch24]

I find this thread incredibly ironic considering this guy swings from derrick roses' nuts daily.

Why are you so upset? Thread shows Kobe isn't some godlike figure; that's a good thing.

[G-Funk]

Great list of players if u ask me. Kobe will win 2 more rings before he gets to the top of that list.

[Hulk Hogan]

MJ missed 12345 FG in 15 years.

Kobe only missed less than 10997 in 14 years.

MJ will have missed more field goals in the 15 year sample than kobe (because kobe won't reach MJ's total by the end of this year).

So technically MJ is the king of missed FGs since he has the most in the shortest time frame.

So all this really shows is how irrelevant and misleading that is since everyone still considers jordan the goat.:confusedshrug:


OP's agenda thread has been neutralized. :oldlol:

[tpols]

Why are you so upset? Thread shows Kobe isn't some godlike figure; that's a good thing.
I'm not mad brah. Just clearing some misconceptions.:cheers:

[G-Funk]

MJ missed 12345 FG in 15 years.

Kobe only missed less than 10997 in 14 years.

MJ will have missed more field goals in the 15 year sample than kobe (because kobe won't reach MJ's total by the end of this year).

So technically MJ is the king of missed FGs since he has the most in the shortest time frame.

So all this really shows is how irrelevant and misleading that is since everyone still considers jordan the goat.:confusedshrug:

U shot his thread down with this 1

[Rose]

For those who struggle with reading...

Postseason isn't included in regular season FGAs missed.

Kobe has an additional 2,213 misses in the playoffs. After this next season, he will surpass Jordan in playoff misses.

While Jordan has 12,345 misses (which Kobe will clearly surpass within 2 seasons), he also happens to have 12,192 career makes (postseason not included). Kobe doesn't even have 10,000 career makes. By time he eclipses Jordan's 12,345, he might not even have 10,000 makes yet, as he's only at 9,152 now.

Will Kobe get 848 FGMs in his next 1,348 attemps? That's a FG% of 62.9%. So the odds (for Kobe) doing that, are as close to 0% as they can possibly get. He'll have more misses than Jordan, with over 2,000 less makes.

He's also the youngest player to get 10,000 misses. We trump up Kobe for youngest to score points, but he's doing so at an exponential rate of missing as well.

So while Jordan has plenty of misses, he has nearly as many makes at the same time. Kobe's makes are nowhere near his amount of misses. As he misses 55% of his shots. Some like to make the agrument, "oh, a few FG% difference is like 1-2 shots a game!) True, but over a career, it's over 2,000. Quite clearly.

Someone else was kind of enough to dive into it while I was tackling other posters.

[MrJohnWall]

MJ missed 12345 FG in 15 years.

Kobe only missed less than 10997 in 14 years.

MJ will have missed more field goals in the 15 year sample than kobe (because kobe won't reach MJ's total by the end of this year).

So technically MJ is the king of missed FGs since he has the most in the shortest time frame.

So all this really shows is how irrelevant and misleading that is since everyone still considers jordan the goat.:confusedshrug:


Had to quote it a again... This is what you call a thread killer :applause: :applause: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[jtj5002]

someone post Durrant's FG% this year please

[Hulk Hogan]

someone post Durrant's FG% this year please

42%

[Rose]

someone post Durrant's FG% this year please
I think it's 42%

[New York Knicks]

It's common knowledge by now that Kobe's been a career bricklayer.

[chazzy]

Longevity+high FGA+average FG% = bricks for days

Bruceblitz using you as his mouthpiece, so people will actually read his stat work?! :lol

[Rose]

Longevity+high FGA+average FG% = bricks for days

Bruceblitz using you as his mouthpiece, so people will actually read his stat work?! :lol
...Nuh uh. I hate Bruceblitz I always have.

[Ruh-Roh]

Longevity+high FGA+average FG% = bricks for days

Bruceblitz using you as his mouthpiece, so people will actually read his stat work?! :lol

OP was bashing bruce last night for his ranking of Kobe being too low & LeBron being too high actually.

[chazzy]

I just assumed it was him, I think he made a video specifically about this before

[Rose]

I just assumed it was him, I think he made a video specifically about this before
Haha seriously? I didn't know that.

[ginobli2311]

The overall numbers are not bad at all. Kobe shoots a respectable (not great) percentage from the field on his volume. Almost any perimeter player in history would kill for his scoring efficiency on his volume of shots and his level of difficulty on those shots.

What these stats show is that Kobe can't carry a team to wins (generally speaking) when he's a high volume shooter. He's simply not efficient enough. Again. Its not the career fg%, it is the fg% in all of those losses. That is why I and other get so furious at him. He doesn't need to take so many bad shots when his team is struggling. There is no reason for it.

These stats are a great indication of what we have all seen throughout his career. He's simply way too inefficient a lot of times and there is no reason for it. The NBA Finals last year were great evidence of this. So were the 04 and 08 Finals. Simply no need to shoot that much.

But people claiming the overall numbers are terrible for a perimeter player that shoots 20 times a game are not accurate. There is nothing wrong with the OVERALL %. Its not legendary, but its not terrible either.

I just wish Kobe would take 3 less shots per game on average and take many less shots in games where he's ice cold. But no player is perfect and Kobe's been one of the best ever.

[PowerGlove]

Kobe fans playing that GOAT defense again.I see you chazzy.

[Dave3]

Had to quote it a again... This is what you call a thread killer :applause: :applause: :bowdown: :bowdown:
How's it a thread killer? The same people that would say this are the ones that will say that Kobe's first years shouldn't count towards his ppg average because he never got any minutes. If it's a bad stat, then those years count so Kobe has less of the bad stat (TOs, missed FGAs) in the same amount of years. If it's a good stat, then those years shouldn't count, so MJ doesn't destroy Kobe in that stat when seasons played are equal....make up your minds...

[DeronMillsap]

Very educational thread. :applause:

[chazzy]

Kobe fans playing that GOAT defense again.I see you chazzy.
I said his FG% is average!

[DeronMillsap]

someone post Durrant's FG% this year please
216 bricks this season.
Kobe has more though, at 238.

Kobe has an average of 11.9 bricks per game this season through 20 games.
Durant has an average of exactly 12 bricks per game through 18 games.

Who cares about the scoring title or MVP race, the most bricklayer race is top notch. :applause:

[Rose]

216 bricks this season.
Kobe has more though, at 238.

Kobe has an average of 11.9 bricks per game this season through 20 games.
Durant has an average of exactly 12 bricks per game through 18 games.

Who cares about the scoring title or MVP race, the most bricklayer race is top notch. :applause:
You seem pretty into this

[DeronMillsap]

Here's the brick leaders

Career missed shots:

John Havlicek 13,417 shots
Elvin Hayes 13,296 shots
Karl Malone 12,682 shots
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
12,470 shots
Michael Jordan 12,345 shots
Dominique Wilkins 11,626 shots
Elgin Baylor 11,478 shots
Allen Iverson 11,418 shots
Wilt Chamberlain 10,816 shots
Kobe Bryant 10,501 shots
Alex English 10,377 shots
Hal Greer 10,307 shots
Bob Cousy 10,300 shots
Hakeem Olajuwon 10,242 shots
Oscar Robertson 10,112 shots
Jerry West 10,016 shots

Kobe is on pace for 11,245 bricks by the end of this season if he continues to brick 12 shots a game.

less than 3 years he should be in the 13,500 range for the all-time record. :applause:

[DeronMillsap]

You seem pretty into this
Just helping to make this the thread of the year!!! :cheers:

[DeronMillsap]

MJ missed 12345 FG in 15 years.

Kobe only missed less than 10997 in 14 years.

MJ will have missed more field goals in the 15 year sample than kobe (because kobe won't reach MJ's total by the end of this year).

So technically MJ is the king of missed FGs since he has the most in the shortest time frame.

So all this really shows is how irrelevant and misleading that is since everyone still considers jordan the goat.:confusedshrug:
As starters
Jordan(1984-2003) 12345(FG misses)/15(years) = 823 bricks per season
Kobe (*1998-2010*) 9991(FG misses)/12(years) = 832.58 bricks per season

*Starting the 1998-99 season to 2009-10. Also, factoring in the fact that Kobe was a #2 option/sidekick for 6 years(1998-2004) while Jordan was the Man for his entire career.

Kobe >>>> Jordan at shitting bricks. :bowdown:

[Rose]

Dmills...you are putting in ALOT of work. props!

[DeronMillsap]

Dmills...you are putting in ALOT of work. props!
NBA Reference and a calculator. :lol

[MJ23forever]

Kobe was a #2 option/sidekick for 6 years(1998-2004)

#2 option/side-kick from 1998-2000.

1b option from 2001-2004.

[DeronMillsap]

#2 option/side-kick from 1998-2000.

1b option from 2001-2004.
No. Shaq was the clear cut #1 guy.

[MJ23forever]

No. Shaq was the clear cut #1 guy.

From 1997-2000 of course he was the clear cut #1 guy on the Lakers, but beyond '00 him and Kobe were 1a/1b.

[Rose]

From 1997-2000 of course he was the clear cut #1 guy on the Lakers, but beyond '00 him and Kobe were 1a/1b.
I would say kobe became one b at around 02. MAYBE late 01.

[MrJohnWall]

As starters
Jordan(1984-2003) 12345(FG misses)/15(years) = 823 bricks per season
Kobe (*1998-2010*) 9991(FG misses)/12(years) = 832.58 bricks per season

*Starting the 1998-99 season to 2009-10. Also, factoring in the fact that Kobe was a #2 option/sidekick for 6 years(1998-2004) while Jordan was the Man for his entire career.

Kobe >>>> Jordan at shitting bricks. :bowdown:


lol @ as starters.. Keep changing the numbers to benefit ya agenda


Jordan is still the GOAT brick machine

[Jasper]

Shooting guards will always have the highest brick total , because they take far shots.

Ironically the three players we should sit up and maybe analysis the Piss out of is , Kareem , Malone and Wilt , because their shots were closer in ...

I think Kobe will hold the record , and I won't debate why that occurs to the other s on the list.

[Rose]

Shooting guards will always have the highest brick total , because they take far shots.

Ironically the three players we should sit up and maybe analysis the Piss out of is , Kareem , Malone and Wilt , because their shots were closer in ...

I think Kobe will hold the record , and I won't debate why that occurs to the other s on the list.
Agreed entirely.

[DeronMillsap]

lol @ as starters.. Keep changing the numbers to benefit ya agenda


Jordan is still the GOAT brick machine
Kobe is the GOAT of mediocre Finals performances. :applause:

[MrJohnWall]

Kobe is the GOAT of mediocre Finals performances. :applause:
Jordan is the goat of dominating undersized slow white unathleic players

[Ruh-Roh]

From 1997-2000 of course he was the clear cut #1 guy on the Lakers, but beyond '00 him and Kobe were 1a/1b.

No chance. Shaq's statline barely moved between 2000-2003, especially after 2001.

[madmax]

Jordan is the goat of dominating undersized slow white unathleic players
:D :cheers: :applause:

[MJ23forever]

No chance. Shaq's statline barely moved between 2000-2003, especially after 2001.

True but after 2000 Kobe's level of play was far beyond that of a side-kick.

[MJ23forever]

Jordan is the goat of dominating undersized slow white unathleic players

:oldlol: @ the ignorance.

Malone, Barkley, Ewing, Drexler, Shaq etc. are undersized slow unatheltic players?

[SinJackal]

MJ missed 12345 FG in 15 years.

Kobe only missed less than 10997 in 14 years.

MJ will have missed more field goals in the 15 year sample than kobe (because kobe won't reach MJ's total by the end of this year).

So technically MJ is the king of missed FGs since he has the most in the shortest time frame.

So all this really shows is how irrelevant and misleading that is since everyone still considers jordan the goat.:confusedshrug:

For the blind Kobe fanboys that think this red herring post was somehow a "thread killer". . .I already debunked it.



While Jordan has 12,345 misses (which Kobe will clearly surpass within 2 seasons), he also happens to have 12,192 career makes (postseason not included). Kobe doesn't even have 10,000 career makes. By time he eclipses Jordan's 12,345, he might not even have 10,000 makes yet, as he's only at 9,152 now.

Will Kobe get 848 FGMs in his next 1,348 attemps? That's a FG% of 62.9%. So the odds (for Kobe) doing that, are as close to 0% as they can possibly get. He'll have more misses than Jordan, with over 2,000 less makes.

He's also the youngest player to get 10,000 misses. We trump up Kobe for youngest to score points, but he's doing so at an exponential rate of missing as well.

So while Jordan has plenty of misses, he has nearly as many makes at the same time. Kobe's makes are nowhere near his amount of misses. As he misses 55% of his shots. Some like to make the agrument, "oh, a few FG% difference is like 1-2 shots a game!) True, but over a career, it's over 2,000. Quite clearly.

He neglects to mention Michael Jordan's FGMs and total FGAs as opposed to Kobe's. Convienient, for a well-known Kobe troll like tpols.

Here are the basic numbers again to give you the idea.

Jordan's career:

24,537 FGAs
12,192 FGs
12,345 FGMs (FGs missed)


Kobe:

20,149 FGAs
9,152 FGs
10,997 FGMs (FGs missed)


Kobe has 1,348 less misses, but also 4,388 less attempts, and 3,040 less makes.

This means Kobe will easily surpass Jordan's bricks, and be nowhere near his attempts. By time Kobe reaches Jordan's FGAs, he will be past the record already, meanwhile Kobe will still be about 2,000 short of Jordan's FGs made.

As for Jordan's misses in 15 years, that's true. Of course, that also neglects to mention the fact that he was far more accurate. Something reflected in his stats. Of course, if you also want to play the 15 year game, take Kobe's 1999-2014 seasons, and combine his misses.

From 1999-now, he's taken 18,035 FGAs, and bricked 9,812 shots. This is over an 11 year span. Again, pro-rate his average misses over the last three years into the next 3 3/4ths years, and he easily surpasses Jordan's 12,345 over his 15 year career, by about 800.

So even if you want to play the "15 year" game, Kobe still has more misses over that span, with nowhere near the amount of makes. Unless you want to pretend it has to be from day 1 of his career, and want the watered down total of misses due to less shots taken early in his career to have to be counted. You'll be granted that, except if you do so, you can no longer exclude those years in any arguments about Kobe's career scoring. Which reduces Kobe to a career 25 PPG guy. Nowhere near Jordan's 30 PPG.

Pick your poison basically. Whichever way you decide to go, you lose a little something for your typical Kobe argument. Kobe's a great scorer, no doubt, but you can't pretend he isn't missing shots at a record setting rate and have it both ways like you guys usually seem to want to have it when you argue about him.

[DeronMillsap]

Jordan is the goat of dominating undersized slow white unathleic players
Speaking of unathletic white boys, didn't Steve Nash whooped Kobe's ass in 2006 and 2007 playoffs? :roll: :roll: :roll:

When Jordan got his ass whooped by a white boy, it was Bird, who 3-time champion and the greatest white boy to ever played the game.

Jordan never got beat by a player like Nash. NEVER!!!!

Kobe is the GOAT of getting beat by unathletic white boys. :applause:

[StillKill24]

lol jazz fan defending jordan :oldlol:

[Rose]

lol jazz fan defending jordan :oldlol:
Beat me too it:roll:

[Ne 1]

lol jazz fan defending jordan :oldlol:

Probably dosen't remember or might not be old enough to have witnessed MJ owning them 12 years ago but has fresh memories of Kobe sending the Jazz home fishing 3 years straight. :oldlol:

[StillKill24]

Beat me too it:roll:

98 was a really long time ago i guess :oldlol:

[MrJohnWall]

Speaking of unathletic white boys, didn't Steve Nash whooped Kobe's ass in 2006 and 2007 playoffs? :roll: :roll: :roll:

When Jordan got his ass whooped by a white boy, it was Bird, who 3-time champion and the greatest white boy to ever played the game.

Jordan never got beat by a player like Nash. NEVER!!!!

Kobe is the GOAT of getting beat by unathletic white boys. :applause:
Your a Jazz fan stanning. Jordan

Please kill your self

[StillKill24]

Probably dosen't remember or might not be old enough to have witnessed MJ owning them 12 years ago but has fresh memories of Kobe sending the Jazz home fishing 3 years straight. :oldlol:
:oldlol:

[gts]

Kobe is the GOAT of mediocre Finals performances. :applause:better one player than an entire team

*jazz*cough*jazz

[Lakers13]

I thought I'd never see the day that a Jazz fan would defend Jordan :facepalm

[gts]

For the blind Kobe fanboys that think this red herring post was somehow a "thread killer". . .I already debunked it.




He neglects to mention Michael Jordan's FGMs and total FGAs as opposed to Kobe's. Convienient, for a well-known Kobe troll like tpols.

Here are the basic numbers again to give you the idea.

Jordan's career:

24,537 FGAs
12,192 FGs
12,345 FGMs (FGs missed)


Kobe:

20,149 FGAs
9,152 FGs
10,997 FGMs (FGs missed)


Kobe has 1,348 less misses, but also 4,388 less attempts, and 3,040 less makes.

This means Kobe will easily surpass Jordan's bricks, and be nowhere near his attempts. By time Kobe reaches Jordan's FGAs, he will be past the record already, meanwhile Kobe will still be about 2,000 short of Jordan's FGs made.

As for Jordan's misses in 15 years, that's true. Of course, that also neglects to mention the fact that he was far more accurate. Something reflected in his stats. Of course, if you also want to play the 15 year game, take Kobe's 1999-2014 seasons, and combine his misses.

From 1999-now, he's taken 18,035 FGAs, and bricked 9,812 shots. This is over an 11 year span. Again, pro-rate his average misses over the last three years into the next 3 3/4ths years, and he easily surpasses Jordan's 12,345 over his 15 year career, by about 800.

So even if you want to play the "15 year" game, Kobe still has more misses over that span, with nowhere near the amount of makes. Unless you want to pretend it has to be from day 1 of his career, and want the watered down total of misses due to less shots taken early in his career to have to be counted. You'll be granted that, except if you do so, you can no longer exclude those years in any arguments about Kobe's career scoring. Which reduces Kobe to a career 25 PPG guy. Nowhere near Jordan's 30 PPG.

Pick your poison basically. Whichever way you decide to go, you lose a little something for your typical Kobe argument. Kobe's a great scorer, no doubt, but you can't pretend he isn't missing shots at a record setting rate and have it both ways like you guys usually seem to want to have it when you argue about him.

interesting stuff.. I can't look it up right now but what are kobe's 3 pt attempts vs. jordan's for their careers?

i think if a debate on bricking is taking plase where those shots are coming from needs to be looked at

[DeronMillsap]

Jordan was legit. He was the GOAT, I'm not gonna hate something that's true.

Kobe is the second greatest sidekick ever and a pretty good #1 option. But he's nowhere in Jordan's league. Kobe's barely in the top 10.

Kobe being compared to Jordan, Magic, Bird is a slap in the face to true legends.

[SoCalMike]

interesting stuff.. I can't look it up right now but what are kobe's 3 pt attempts vs. jordan's for their careers?

my gut tells me kobe has more 3 point attempts... i wonder if im right...



:pimp:

[DeronMillsap]

Your a Jazz fan stanning. Jordan

Please kill your self
You got a Spurs avatar and a John Wall username. Go hang yourself.

[Rose]

my gut tells me kobe has more 3 point attempts... i wonder if im right...



:pimp:
Kobe definitely has ALOT more

based just on the fact Jordan didnt shoot 3s

[Batz]

You got a Spurs avatar and a John Wall username. Go hang yourself.
Yes because John Wall vs Spurs rivalry is epic compared to Jordan vs Jazz.

[MrJohnWall]

You got a Spurs avatar and a John Wall username. Go hang yourself.

if u look at the spurs avatar its jon barry and tony parker
just a funny pic and last time i checked wall doesnt have a rivarly with them

now proceed to killing yourself

[SoCalMike]

Kobe definitely has ALOT more

based just on the fact Jordan didnt shoot 3s

id like to see the stat out of curiosity.



:pimp:

[DeronMillsap]

Probably dosen't remember or might not be old enough to have witnessed MJ owning them 12 years ago but has fresh memories of Kobe sending the Jazz home fishing 3 years straight. :oldlol:
Can't deny it, I became a Jazz fan when Kirilenko arrived. :lol

Rose....you should already know that. I've told him many times, Jordan's Bulls doesn't effect me that much.

[DeronMillsap]

if u look at the spurs avatar its jon barry and tony parker
just a funny pic and last time i checked wall doesnt have a rivarly with them

now proceed to killing yourself
So what are you....a Wiz fan, Spurs fan, Lakers fan or just a Kobe stan? Make up your damn mind.

[Rose]

id like to see the stat out of curiosity.



:pimp:
Jordan has 1,778
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/michael_jordan/index.html
Kobe has 3,916

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kobe_bryant/career_stats.html

[Rose]

Rose....you should already know that. I've told him many times, Jordan's Bulls doesn't effect me that much.
I know I know my bad

[Ne 1]

Jordan was legit. He was the GOAT, I'm not gonna hate something that's true.

Kobe is the second greatest sidekick ever and a pretty good #1 option. But he's nowhere in Jordan's league. Kobe's barely in the top 10.

Kobe being compared to Jordan, Magic, Bird is a slap in the face to true legends.

Jordan was not legit. He was not the GOAT.

Jordan was a great supporting cast player (MJ was replaced by a D-League scrub named Pete Myers and the Bulls didn't miss a beat) but only the Space Jam generation would think he is better than past greats before him like Mikan, Cousy, Russell, Pettit, West, Wilt, Barry, Hondo, Oscar, Kareem, Walton, McAdoo, Bird, Magic and many other greats who were better than Jordan.

[MrJohnWall]

Jordan was not legit. He was not the GOAT.

Jordan was a great supporting cast player (MJ was replaced by a D-League scrub named Pete Myers and the Bulls didn't miss a beat) but only the Space Jam generation would think he is better than past greats before him like Mikan, Cousy, Russell, Pettit, West, Wilt, Barry, Hondo, Oscar, Kareem, Walton, McAdoo, Bird, Magic and many other greats who were better than Jordan.
he became a fan of basketball in 2002

all he know of Jordan is youtube highlights and urban myths

[Rose]

Jordan was not legit. He was not the GOAT.

Jordan was a great supporting cast player (MJ was replaced by a D-League scrub named Pete Myers and the Bulls didn't miss a beat) but only the Space Jam generation would think he is better than past greats before him like Mikan, Cousy, Russell, Pettit, West, Wilt, Barry, Hondo, Oscar, Kareem, Walton, McAdoo, Bird, Magic and many other greats who were better than Jordan.
:bowdown:

[DeronMillsap]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=198113
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=198122

^^^I wonder how long before Yung D-Will calls me out on this shiiiit.

[Leviathon1121]

Jordan was not legit. He was not the GOAT.

Jordan was a great supporting cast player (MJ was replaced by a D-League scrub named Pete Myers and the Bulls didn't miss a beat) but only the Space Jam generation would think he is better than past greats before him like Mikan, Cousy, Russell, Pettit, West, Wilt, Barry, Hondo, Oscar, Kareem, Walton, McAdoo, Bird, Magic and many other greats who were better than Jordan.

Kobe has possibly the all-time worst NBA Finals performance by an NBA Great.

Shaq leaves for Miami.

Shaq wins NBA title with Wade the very next season.

Bryant is no better then a scrub like Wade who doesn't even crack the top 20 GOAT list.

This is fun.

[gts]

Jordan has 1,778
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/michael_jordan/index.html
Kobe has 3,916

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kobe_bryant/career_stats.html
i'm in a meeting so i can't bust out a calculator
can you do some math, seperate kobe's and mj's 2 from threes?



and save yourself the time just do it it for careers to date

[SoCalMike]

i'm in a meeting so i can't bust out a calculator
can you do some math, seperate kobe's and mj's 2 from threes?

i think we'll see inside the arc mj launched more bricks and from outside the arc kobe launches more

and save yourself the time just do it it for careers to date

what are you doing in a meeting at this hour???? lol



:pimp:

[SinJackal]

interesting stuff.. I can't look it up right now but what are kobe's 3 pt attempts vs. jordan's for their careers?

i think if a debate on bricking is taking plase where those shots are coming from needs to be looked at

That's a legitimate point. Jordan has 581/1,778 3PAs, to Kobe's 1,330/3,916 3PAs. Again, not counting postseason.

Since you're talking basically about eFG%, Jordan's is .509, to Kobe's .487. A .022 difference. Which is closer than their .043 FG% difference.

[Rose]

i'm in a meeting so i can't bust out a calculator
can you do some math, seperate kobe's and mj's 2 from threes?

i think we'll see inside the arc mj launched more bricks and from outside the arc kobe launches more

and save yourself the time just do it it for careers to date
even if Kobe did launch fewer from inside it doesn't matter. He's still taking shots he shouldn't be taking. Which other guys haven't/didn't do. I like Kobe. But the fact remains he's gonna own the record because he's taking the WRONG shots, at times.

[DeronMillsap]

Kobe has possibly the all-time worst NBA Finals performance by an NBA Great.

Shaq leaves for Miami.

Shaq wins NBA title with Wade the very next season.

Bryant is no better then a scrub like Wade who doesn't even crack the top 20 GOAT list.

This is fun.
:applause: Kobe is nothing without a Top 5 C/PF.
3 rings on the shoulders of Shaq and 2 on Gasol.

[gts]

what are you doing in a meeting at this hour???? lol



:pimp:car stuff... heading to work in the a.m. for at least 2 days so we're just getting everybody on the same page so they don't waste money like they did last week...

[ashbelly]

Oh god damn.. Looks like i have to delay my article on kobe's career for a minute. This is new material :cheers:.. Repped.

[Ne 1]

:applause: Kobe is nothing without a Top 5 C/PF.
3 rings on the shoulders of Shaq and 2 on Gasol.

A CBA scrub toke Jordan's place when he retired and Pippen still lead the Bulls to 55 games and a deep playoff run. (That's more then Jordan ever did without Pippen. btw)

Imagine if Jordan didn't wait to retire at the last minute. They could have picked up a better free agent. Then all they would have needed was some bum off the street to play SG in Jordan's place and they probably go on to win a title!

Its hard to believe the 'GOAT' is only worth 2 more wins to his team. They went from 57 wins to 55 after he retired and had to replace him with a D-League scrub because he waited till the last minute to retire. So just think what could have happed if they picked a better free agent instead of a D-League scrub to take his place.



And to make it worse Pete Myers hadn't played in the NBA for 5 years before coming to the Bulls to take Jordan's place! :roll:

[SinJackal]

i'm in a meeting so i can't bust out a calculator
can you do some math, seperate kobe's and mj's 2 from threes?



and save yourself the time just do it it for careers to date

If you remove their 3PAs from their FG%, Kobe's is sitting at .482%, and Jordan's is at .510%

[Ne 1]

Scottie Pippen's record in seasons without MJ: 317-225 (.585)
20-23 in the playoffs

MJ's record in seasons without Pippen: 182-228 (.444)
1-9 in the playoffs





Jordan was replaced by a CBA journeyman named Pete Myers and Scottie without MJ won 55 games (only lost 2 more games then the year before with MJ)



Plus, they even make it to the 2nd round of the playoffs, with Scottie, and without Michael...which is better than they ever did with Michael/but without Scottie...In 1994, Scottie became the 2nd player in NBA history to lead his team in scoring, rebounding, assists, blocks and steals... yeah, Michael made him better. :rolleyes:
Jordan played five years of his career without Pippen. ALL FIVE WERE LOSING TEAMS.


As a great man once said, without Scottie Pippen, Jordan was nothing more than a bald-headed Dominique Wilkins.

The Bulls dropped TWO GAMES after losing the "greatest player of all time" :oldlol: Yeah, right!

Remembered that they won 55 without Michael but with Scottie, which is fine... how'd they do WITH Michael but WITHOUT Scottie? Let's check:

38, 30 and 40 wins... that's it... aw, that's too bad... 40 wins is SO CLOSE to a .500 season, I'd almost want to give Michael credit for a winning season that year... but I can't... a loser is a loser. I can't change the laws of mathematics... if you lose more games than you win, you're a LOSER! And that's what Michael was without Scottie as a teammate... sorry if the truth hurts, but you jordan jockers (hopefully) will get over it.

[MrJohnWall]

A CBA scrub toke Jordan's place when he retired and Pippen still lead the Bulls to 55 games and a deep playoff run. (That's more then Jordan ever did without Pippen. btw)

Imagine if Jordan didn't wait to retire at the last minute. They could have picked up a better free agent. Then all they would have needed was some bum off the street to play SG in Jordan's place and they probably go on to win a title!

Its hard to believe the 'GOAT' is only worth 2 more wins to his team. They went from 57 wins to 55 after he retired and had to replace him with a D-League scrub because he waited till the last minute to retire. So just think what could have happed if they picked a better free agent instead of a D-League scrub to take his place.


And to make it worse Pete Myers hadn't played in the NBA for 5 years before coming to the Bulls to take Jordan's place! :roll:


Or what if the replaced him with Kobe?

8 rings and counting cuz Kobe wouldnt get his dad killed so no need to retire due to guilt

[StillKill24]

Scottie Pippen's record in seasons without MJ: 317-225 (.585)
20-23 in the playoffs

MJ's record in seasons without Pippen: 182-228 (.444)
1-9 in the playoffs

:applause: :oldlol:

[DeronMillsap]

Oh god damn.. Looks like i have to delay my article on kobe's career for a minute. This is new material :cheers:.. Repped.

Finally, the ultimate Kobe-hater has arrived.

You got some great facts in this thread posted by Rose and myself. Use it for your article. :cheers:

[branslowski]

Oh god damn.. Looks like i have to delay my article on kobe's career for a minute. This is new material :cheers:.. Repped.

I know your article on Kobe won't have any bias or hate in it...:rolleyes:

[Ancient Legend]

Of course Pippen led the team that Jordan built for lots of years. You guys do remember MJ MADE Scottie the great player he was.

Where do you think Scottie got his skills? When he was drafted he was just a skinny long-armed project from an unknown college.

[Leviathon1121]

Edit: Stop feeding the trolls.

[StillKill24]

Of course Pippen led the team that Jordan built for lots of years. You guys do remember MJ MADE Scottie the great player he was.

Where do you think Scottie got his skills? When he was drafted he was just a skinny long-armed project from an unknown college.

Thank you ESPN

[SinJackal]

Jordan and Kobe's teammates have nothing to do with their individual scoring ability, their FG%, or FGs missed. Their best years were with bad teams, making all points about their teammates completely irrelevant.

I guess you guys are attempting a subject change, since the initial facts are no longer debatable. :confusedshrug:

[DeronMillsap]

Of course Pippen led the team that Jordan built for lots of years. You guys do remember MJ MADE Scottie the great player he was.

Where do you think Scottie got his skills? When he was drafted he was just a skinny long-armed project from an unknown college.
:applause:

Kobe made a #1 pick Kwame Brown and #3 pick Adam Morrison into scrubs.

Pathetic. :facepalm

[Batz]

Thank you ESPN
:roll:

[Rose]

Why did we change subjects?

[ashbelly]

Jordan and Kobe's teammates have nothing to do with their individual scoring ability, their FG%, or FGs missed. Their best years were with bad teams, making all points about their teammates completely irrelevant.

I guess you guys are attempting a subject change, since the initial facts are no longer debatable. :confusedshrug:

Facts are very hard to argue.. :oldlol:

[StillKill24]

:applause:

Kobe made a #1 pick Kwame Brown and #3 pick Adam Morrison into scrubs.

Pathetic. :facepalm

Kwame first played with jordan :roll: and he turned him into a bust

[Disaprine]

:lol

[Disaprine]

this whole thread = :roll: :applause:

[Batz]

Kwame first played with jordan :roll: and he turned him into a bust
Didn't he draft Ammo?

[Ne 1]

Of course Pippen led the team that Jordan built for lots of years. You guys do remember MJ MADE Scottie the great player he was.

Where do you think Scottie got his skills? When he was drafted he was just a skinny long-armed project from an unknown college.

Uh, Pippen was a great defender and all around player before he even met MJ. He was a top 5 draft pick, Bulls were aware of the skill set he possessed and traded for him. He played PG most of his life before a growth spurt and developed his court vision and ball handling skills then. He averaged 3 spg in college (more than MJ btw), had great team defense instincts as early as his rookie season (and back then, MJ wasn't even the vocal leader we know him as). Pippen did what all players do, get better as he gained more experience. Phil is the one who helped his game more than anyone by putting him in an offensive system that would tailor to his strengths. MJ probably made him a better individual defender, but other than that, I'm not seeing it. I know it's easy to look back through homer-vision and rewrite history but this MJ made Pippen shit really has to stop.

If Jordan simply ''made Pippen" why dosen't he make another Pippen in Charlotte right now? Why couldn't he do that in Washington? Why didn't he make any of his other teammates from 85-87 as good as Pippen was?

[Rose]

Didn't he draft Ammo?
Yep!

[Lakers13]

:applause:

Kobe made a #1 pick Kwame Brown and #3 pick Adam Morrison into scrubs.

Pathetic. :facepalm

Jordan drafted both of these players and were reduced to bench fodder before they came to LA:oldlol:

[StillKill24]

Didn't he draft Ammo?

I think so :oldlol:

[DeronMillsap]

The hell does MJ drafting Morrison have to do with it? He didn't play with him, Kobe did.

[Disaprine]

Thank you ESPN
:roll:

[Rose]

I don't get what Ammo playing with Kobe means, or Kwame. Kwame sucked. Ammo was okay before he tore his ACL, and then never got off the bench.

[SinJackal]

I don't get what Ammo playing with Kobe means, or Kwame. Kwame sucked. Ammo was okay before he tore his ACL, and then never got off the bench.

Good thread got reduced to a troll fest by Kobe fans wanting to take attention off of the first couple pages since they could no longer argue the main point.

[DeronMillsap]

Good thread got reduced to a troll fest by Kobe fans wanting to take attention off of the first couple pages since they could no longer argue the main point.
Yup. It was strictly between Kobe vs Jordan...then they brought in Pippen... :blah :blah :blah :blah

[Rose]

Good thread got reduced to a troll fest by Kobe fans wanting to take attention off of the first couple pages since they could no longer argue the main point.
Sad.

I wasn't even trolling either. I like Kobe. I choose Kobe over Bronzy and Wade 10 times out of 10.

[gts]

If you remove their 3PAs from their FG%, Kobe's is sitting at .482%, and Jordan's is at .510%i'll do it later, i want actual shot numbers not % like the rest of the thread is based on

[gts]

ok kobe from 2 pt land in his 15th season
16,233 two point attempts
8,411 bricks from inside the arc

jordan from 2 point land in his 15 seasons
22,759 two point attempts
11,148 bricks

EDIT ok i missed it sinjackal, m'bad, like i said i'm in a meeting, not that anyone would care i just don't want to derail the meeting with basketball talk.. i want to go home...lol

[SinJackal]

i'll do it later, i want actual shot numbers not % like the rest of the thread is based on


Already answered that I thought.


Jordan has 581/1,778 3PAs, to Kobe's 1,330/3,916 3PAs. Again, not counting postseason.

22,759 2 point FGAs for MJ, 16,233 for Kobe. As opposed to their 24,537 total FGAs for MJ, and 20,149 total FGAs for Kobe.

If you wanted 2PAs and 2pFGAs for each, with 3PAs subtracted (Kobe with more than double the 3PAs gets a lot of his shot attempts removed this way), it becomes:

MJ 2pFGAs: 11,611/22,759. .510%

Kobe 2pFGAs: 7,822/16,233. .482%


And their 3PAs seperate are of course:

MJ 3PAs: 581/1,778. .327%

Kobe 3PAs: 1,330/3,916. .340%


Totals:

MJ FGAs: 12,192/24,537. .497%

Kobe FGAs: 9,152/20,149. .454%

[raptorfan_dr07]

All the trolling posts in this thread by JohnWall and Ne1 were reported once again. I suggest everyone else do the same. I remember someone saying that reporting posts actually does work.

[ashbelly]

Already answered that I thought.



22,759 2 point FGAs for MJ, 16,233 for Kobe. As opposed to their 24,537 total FGAs for MJ, and 20,149 total FGAs for Kobe.

If you wanted 2PAs and 2pFGAs for each, with 3PAs subtracted (Kobe with more than double the 3PAs gets a lot of his shot attempts removed this way), it becomes:

MJ 2pFGAs: 11,611/22,759. .510%

Kobe 2pFGAs: 7,822/16,233. .482%


And their 3PAs seperate are of course:

MJ 3PAs: 581/1,778. .327%

Kobe 3PAs: 1,330/3,916. .340%


Totals:

MJ FGAs: 12,192/24,537. .497%

Kobe FGAs: 9,152/20,149. .454%


i once made 2 threads showing how Kobe shot is not accurate, the other one was showed how his scoring is overated, dude is a chucker..

[SinJackal]

ok kobe from 2 pt land in his 15th season
16,233 two point attempts
8,411 bricks from inside the arc

jordan from 2 point land in his 15 seasons
22,759 two point attempts
11,148 bricks

EDIT ok i missed it sinjackal, m'bad, like i said i'm in a meeting, not that anyone would care i just don't want to derail the meeting with basketball talk.. i want to go home...lol

It's okay man, just trying to give out all the info for both sides, so the argument isn't skewed in any direction.

Btw Kobe started his career as an 18 year old with reduced minutes and responsibility. Jordan started at 22 with maximum responsibility. Kobe was not a starter with full responsibility until his 4th season, which is dragging down his total numbers for the totality of his career (you likely know more about Kobe than me since you're a big Lakers fan, so I know I'm not informing you here :P~ ..). Hence my point earlier, if you use his career from 1999 and onward, his pace of missing is just as high, and on less shots. From 1999-2013 (pro-rated from last 3 seasons), he would certainly have more misses over that span of 14 years.

For reference, from 1999-2010 (not this season), that's 17,617 FGAs over that 11 year span, with 9,574 misses. Which means he has 4 additional years to rack up the misses. Or, you could technically (and fairly), start at 1998, when he began as a starter (during the 50 game season). And reduce it to the next 3 years to rack up the misses. Of course, you need to add the additional 417 misses in 1998, which pushes his total to 9,991 misses in the first 12 years. Which means he's approximately 2,354 short of Jordan's total misses through his 15 seasons as a starter. Using the previous three seasons as a measuring stick (If you don't feel this is fair, let me know, and we can change the criteria, perhaps accounting for potential decline and/or reduced responsibilities), he misses an average of 893 shots a season, even when including his games missed for the average of 79 games a season over the last 3. At that pace, Kobe would net 2,679 misses over the next 3 seasons. 325 ahead of Jordan's total as a starter.

So. . .as a starter, Kobe is ahead of Jordan's pace for misses anyway. When breaking it down that way. For the first 15 seasons though, yes, Kobe is short of Jordan's total misses for sure. That can't be denied. But as we both know, that's only due to the fact that Jordan began his career as a starter who needed to carry his team, while Kobe got to take his time for a couple years before being injected as the starter for his team.

Kobe's also well short of Jordan for FG makes, while being ahead of pace in misses. Jordan is far ahead in FG's taken though, so it'd be a legitimate argument to say Jordan hoarded team shots more than the guy who has more of a negative repuation for doing that very thing.



i once made 2 threads showing how Kobe shot is not accurate, the other one was showed how his scoring is overated, dude is a chucker..

I don't think he qualifies as a chucker. A chucker is more of a guy that shoots 40-41%. . .or even less, and takes a ton of shots. Like Stackhouse in 2000-2001.

[branslowski]

i once made 2 threads showing how Kobe shot is not accurate, the other one was showed how his scoring is overated, dude is a chucker..

45%fg for a perimeter player who takes alot of difficult shots is quite well.

[d.bball.guy]

:wtf: i just noticed the post in the first page that says Jordan has missed 12345 shots(1-2-3-4-5).:lol
great post...at least Jordan missed more shots and Kobe will still chase him.:oldlol:

[Lebron23]

Jordan was not legit. He was not the GOAT.

Jordan was a great supporting cast player (MJ was replaced by a D-League scrub named Pete Myers and the Bulls didn't miss a beat) but only the Space Jam generation would think he is better than past greats before him like Mikan, Cousy, Russell, Pettit, West, Wilt, Barry, Hondo, Oscar, Kareem, Walton, McAdoo, Bird, Magic and many other greats who were better than Jordan.


Worst Post Ever. I hope Jeff permaban this pathetic retarded troll.

[Ancient Legend]

Worst Post Ever. I hope Jeff permaban this pathetic retarded troll.

This.

I like your description.

PRT = pathetic retarded troll

[momo]

Good OP. Interesting and funny. And it spawned the P.R.T.
Repped.

[Ruh-Roh]

Worst Post Ever. I hope Jeff permaban this pathetic retarded troll.

He did, I can't neg him.

[d.bball.guy]

:wtf: i just noticed the post in the first page that says Jordan has missed 12345 shots(1-2-3-4-5).:lol
great post...at least Jordan missed more shots and Kobe will still chase him.:oldlol:
negged for this:lol :cheers:

[DCL]

13 pages since yesterday. OP is successful troll. you angry folks are suckers.

[Ruh-Roh]

13 pages since yesterday. OP is successful troll. you angry folks are suckers.

He really wasn't trolling much at all, the thread was doomed to have MJ brought up at some point so I just sped up the process and Rose seemed pretty content to provide all the stats/arguments/rope to let people hang themselves with.


15 pages atleast.

Almost there...someone, quick, mention LeBron!

[The Iron Fist]

I don't see what the problem is. Looks like hes in pretty good company. I'm more than sure those above him in the category told him,

"more bricks are needed to protect your hardware you earned"





http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRZ-D1fYgU0E3VNsxFWxW_uuV531HP3j_eEcUwGDjPXz7dTE0q5wqC llh0y

[tpols]

Thread Recap

In 41010 minutes of play, michael jordan missed 12345 shots. This means every minute, jordan bricked .3 shots (so every 3.3 minutes he would birck a shot)

In 38063 minutes of play, kobe bryant missed 11008 shots (up to date today). This means every minute, kobe bricked .289 or ~.29 shots (so every 3.46 minutes he would brick a shot).

A ratio of .3 shots missed per minute is worse than a ratio of .29 per minute for those of you who cannot comprehend statistics.


Jordan is therefore technically .01 more of a bricklayer than kobe bryant. These are the irrefutable facts.

[MJ23forever]

Thread Recap

In 41010 minutes of play, michael jordan missed 12345 shots. This means every minute, jordan bricked .3 shots (so every 3.3 minutes he would birck a shot)

In 38063 minutes of play, kobe bryant missed 11008 shots (up to date today). This means every minute, kobe bricked .289 or ~.29 shots (so every 3.46 minutes he would brick a shot).

A ratio of .3 shots missed per minute is worse than a ratio of .29 per minute for those of you who cannot comprehend statistics.


Jordan is therefore technically .01 more of a bricklayer than kobe bryant. These are the irrefutable facts.

Honestly, who cares?

Does it really matter how many shots Jordan and Kobe have missed?

Jordan is a 6x champion, Kobe is a 5x champion and that's all that matters.

[tpols]

Honestly, who cares?

Does it really matter how many shots Jordan and Kobe have missed?

Jordan is a 6x champion, Kobe is a 5x champion and that's all that matters.
I know but I'm just saying what most people don't want to hear about the GOAT in response to what has been said about kobe.

Michael jordan has taken a lot more shots than kobe and therefore he has laid more bricks relative to minutes played (which means for any given time sample, MJ will have laid more bricks). Of course he has made more shots but this thread isn't about that. It's about missed shots. As the OP said, you have to take the bad with the good.

[necya]

Thread Recap

In 41010 minutes of play, michael jordan missed 12345 shots. This means every minute, jordan bricked .3 shots (so every 3.3 minutes he would birck a shot)

In 38063 minutes of play, kobe bryant missed 11008 shots (up to date today). This means every minute, kobe bricked .289 or ~.29 shots (so every 3.46 minutes he would brick a shot).

A ratio of .3 shots missed per minute is worse than a ratio of .29 per minute for those of you who cannot comprehend statistics.


Jordan is therefore technically .01 more of a bricklayer than kobe bryant. These are the irrefutable facts.

why you count the first years of kobe? you knew they will drop the ratio of brick for your girlfriend...pathetic homer.

to be fair and make an intelligent comparison...no, i would waste my time, you won't understand in all case...:roll:

[catch24]

Kobe homers make me want to puke.

[tpols]

why you count the first years of kobe? you knew they will drop the ratio of brick for your girlfriend...pathetic homer.

to be fair and make an intelligent comparison...no, i would waste my time, you won't understand in all case...:roll:
lol I went by minutes played jackass not years. And then I used a ratio of minutes played to misses and jordan's ratio is worse. There's no refuting this. Obviously jordan was a better player than kobe but if you ant to talk about bricks he would put up more in a relative or given amount of time.

[DaCommish]

Did you know that...

...Babe Ruth is the strike-out king of baseball?

...Edison did not succeed with the light bulb until his 1,000th attempt?

...Albert Einstein got an F in math?

...Henry Ford went broke five times?

...Michael Jordan was cut from his high school basketball team?

The moral of the story, "You must fail to succeed"

Signed DaCommish...Official Kobe-Hater

[necya]

lol I went by minutes played jackass not years. And then I used a ratio of minutes played to misses and jordan's ratio is worse. There's no refuting this. Obviously jordan was a better player than kobe but if you ant to talk about bricks he would put up more in a relative or given amount of time.

what a troll...
do you think kobe could shoot the balll all the time in his first years? so your ratio minutes by shot misses is totally biased.

how do you do to be so stupid??:wtf:

[chazzy]

lol I went by minutes played jackass not years. And then I used a ratio of minutes played to misses and jordan's ratio is worse. There's no refuting this. Obviously jordan was a better player than kobe but if you ant to talk about bricks he would put up more in a relative or given amount of time.
I think necya meant that Kobe had a smaller role early, so his FGA per 36 is much lower than it usually is. Your point still technically stands I guess.. I saw someone else just use years which isn't as accurate because Jordan missed 60+ games one year. Though all of this is just meaningless banter anyway :oldlol:

Good statwork to whoever did the OP too, that takes a lot of time. I never really looked up those stats between wins an losses.. you can see a similar efficiency drop off in other players as well.

[tpols]

what a troll...
do you think kobe could shoot the balll all the time in his first years? so your ratio minutes by shot misses is totally biased.

how do you do to be so stupid??:wtf:
alright at the bolded thats just comedy gold:oldlol: :applause:

Now for your main point, he played way less minutes in his first years.

[Deltron3030]

Lebron will surely be THE KING of Bricks when it's all said and done.

[Batz]

Almost there...someone, quick, mention LeBron!
Lebron is way to reliant on that headband of his. He simply cannot play without it. There's no way he can be as dominant as his Cleveland days without a headband. And there's no way he can win alot of championships with a headband

You look at the greatest players of all time. Jordan, Kobe, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Shaq, Duncan etc.

Basically these are guys who won alot. But what was there secret? No headbands. Now this rule doesn't apply to everyone, but generally players who wear no headbands are considered the best of their time. It's not being biased against headwear gear, because it looks good on certain players, but it's because there's a supernatural power in this world that doesn't favour these players. Not god or anything, but something quite like it. Something I can't explain.

Can you name anyone who wore a headband and was succesful? Wilt? Right, put up dominating stats but came short in personal accolades. Iverson? That didn't go well either. Oh and look Carmelo, nothing working out for him either. Pierce got the finals mvp, but Ray deserved it over him. Jermaine O'neal, put him on the list. Dirk wore headband for a while, stupid mistake. Kobe wore a headband for a game or two, outcame rape charges. He learned his lesson. Ben Wallace and Rasheed Wallace, 'coulda woulda shoulda'. I think I've seen Scot Pip with a headband, explains alot.

Take Carter for example. Was doing just fine in Toronto, till he went over to the Nets and started wearing a headband and everything went downhill from there. Ouch.

I can keep going, but I think you've heard enough of people who have underperformed because of wearing a headband.



This will be the story of Lebron's career. The truth here is inevitable. He could try playing without a headband, but history has already embedded the thought of him with a headband that gets thicker and thicker each year because of a residing hairline. Honestly, that's some serious shit. He has an excuse, but people like Kobe or Jordan didn't wear a headband because of balding. They shaved everything off. Lebron's just turning 26, if he was in cleveland he could shave it. But since he is in Miami, the rules do not apply there just by going off laws of physics.


I'm sorry Lebron fans, at this point it's too late. Especially for Heat fans. I suggest trading him for somewhat who's similitude. Maybe a three team deal in which Miami lands Iguodola and a nice young center like Bynum. Lebron at this point is completely useless to them.

[Rose]

Wow Batz, you put alot into that. bravo.:cheers:

[MJ23forever]

Kobe homers make me want to puke.

The obsessive Kobe homers are annoying but the haters are just as bad.

[Batz]

Wow Batz, you put alot into that. bravo.:cheers:
Thanks. Didn't take too long to type up because everything was really the top of my head.

Just to add more players to the list

Lamar Odom. Wore a headband countless times. Had potential to be a 23/10/6 and more kinda guy. No explanation needed on what happened to him.

T-Mac played alot of games with a headband in Houston. :no:

Rondo being smart, ditching the headband early. Nice work young fella. He's probably praying D. Rose wears a headband... :oldlol:


Alot of other players. Feel free to add on to the list people.

[Rose]

Really the only player that I can think of that won with the headband was Big Ben.

[Batz]

Really the only player that I can think of that won with the headband was Big Ben.
He doesn't always wear a headband though. Besides, where does a guy like him rank in this decade, let alone all-time?

[Deltron3030]

Lebron is way to reliant on that headband of his. He simply cannot play without it. There's no way he can be as dominant as his Cleveland days without a headband. And there's no way he can win alot of championships with a headband

You look at the greatest players of all time. Jordan, Kobe, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Shaq, Duncan etc.

Basically these are guys who won alot. But what was there secret? No headbands. Now this rule doesn't apply to everyone, but generally players who wear no headbands are considered the best of their time. It's not being biased against headwear gear, because it looks good on certain players, but it's because there's a supernatural power in this world that doesn't favour these players. Not god or anything, but something quite like it. Something I can't explain.

Can you name anyone who wore a headband and was succesful? Wilt? Right, put up dominating stats but came short in personal accolades. Iverson? That didn't go well either. Oh and look Carmelo, nothing working out for him either. Pierce got the finals mvp, but Ray deserved it over him. Jermaine O'neal, put him on the list. Dirk wore headband for a while, stupid mistake. Kobe wore a headband for a game or two, outcame rape charges. He learned his lesson. Ben Wallace and Rasheed Wallace, 'coulda woulda shoulda'. I think I've seen Scot Pip with a headband, explains alot.

Take Carter for example. Was doing just fine in Toronto, till he went over to the Nets and started wearing a headband and everything went downhill from there. Ouch.

I can keep going, but I think you've heard enough of people who have underperformed because of wearing a headband.



This will be the story of Lebron's career. The truth here is inevitable. He could try playing without a headband, but history has already embedded the thought of him with a headband that gets thicker and thicker each year because of a residing hairline. Honestly, that's some serious shit. He has an excuse, but people like Kobe or Jordan didn't wear a headband because of balding. They shaved everything off. Lebron's just turning 26, if he was in cleveland he could shave it. But since he is in Miami, the rules do not apply there just by going off laws of physics.


I'm sorry Lebron fans, at this point it's too late. Especially for Heat fans. I suggest trading him for somewhat who's similitude. Maybe a three team deal in which Miami lands Iguodola and a nice young center like Bynum. Lebron at this point is completely useless to them.

Not true, Jackie Moon wore a headband and eventually won! Ask Will Ferrell :pimp:

[Deltron3030]

In all serious though, wearing a headband in hoops sorta blocks your periphial (sp) vision. It's like wearing a t-shirt under your tank top, it just restricts your arms from extending fully when you need it to on a shot.

[Rose]

He doesn't always wear a headband though. Besides, where does a guy like him rank in this decade, let alone all-time?
I was just saying in general. Didn't Kareem rock a headband from time to time?

[Batz]

I was just saying in general. Didn't Kareem rock a headband from time to time?
Don't think so.

[Dave3]

Did you know that...

...Babe Ruth is the strike-out king of baseball?

...Edison did not succeed with the light bulb until his 1,000th attempt?

...Albert Einstein got an F in math?

...Henry Ford went broke five times?

...Michael Jordan was cut from his high school basketball team?

The moral of the story, "You must fail to succeed"

Signed DaCommish...Official Kobe-Hater
No he didn't. This is a widespread myth for some reason, but it's not true. Einstein was actually always an excellent student. Sorry, just had to put that in there...

[SinJackal]

Did you know that...

...Babe Ruth is the strike-out king of baseball?

...Edison did not succeed with the light bulb until his 1,000th attempt?

...Albert Einstein got an F in math?

...Henry Ford went broke five times?

...Michael Jordan was cut from his high school basketball team?

The moral of the story, "You must fail to succeed"

Signed DaCommish...Official Kobe-Hater

No he isn't, and he's not even remotely close to it. There are players with nearly double the strikeouts he has. In fact, Babe Ruth's 162 game average for strikeouts is only 86, which is also much lower than the leading player in that category too. He also doesn't have the highest total strikeouts in a season, not even close to that either.

So in no conceivable way is that statement true.

Some of the other stuff might be, but that definitely isn't.

[The Iron Fist]

Thanks. Didn't take too long to type up because everything was really the top of my head.

Just to add more players to the list

Lamar Odom. Wore a headband countless times. Had potential to be a 23/10/6 and more kinda guy. No explanation needed on what happened to him.

T-Mac played alot of games with a headband in Houston. :no:

Rondo being smart, ditching the headband early. Nice work young fella. He's probably praying D. Rose wears a headband... :oldlol:


Alot of other players. Feel free to add on to the list people.


Pete Sampras didn't wear a head band. Considered to be the GOAT tennis player.

Bo Jackson didn't wear a headband.

Bruce Lee didn't wear a headband.

I think you're on to something.

[Ruh-Roh]

Don't think so.

Wilt did, Russell didn't. BAM

[BlueandGold]

Did you know that...

...Babe Ruth is the strike-out king of baseball?

...Edison did not succeed with the light bulb until his 1,000th attempt?

...Albert Einstein got an F in math?

...Henry Ford went broke five times?

...Michael Jordan was cut from his high school basketball team?

The moral of the story, "You must fail to succeed"

Signed DaCommish...Official Kobe-Hater

Don't forget Brett Farve, most all-time interceptions.

[MrJohnWall]

ok kobe from 2 pt land in his 15th season
16,233 two point attempts
8,411 bricks from inside the arc

jordan from 2 point land in his 15 seasons
22,759 two point attempts
11,148 bricks

EDIT ok i missed it sinjackal, m'bad, like i said i'm in a meeting, not that anyone would care i just don't want to derail the meeting with basketball talk.. i want to go home...lol


ahhh good ol stats backfiring

and showing Jordan is the true brick machine

[MrJohnWall]

Thread Recap

In 41010 minutes of play, michael jordan missed 12345 shots. This means every minute, jordan bricked .3 shots (so every 3.3 minutes he would birck a shot)

In 38063 minutes of play, kobe bryant missed 11008 shots (up to date today). This means every minute, kobe bricked .289 or ~.29 shots (so every 3.46 minutes he would brick a shot).

A ratio of .3 shots missed per minute is worse than a ratio of .29 per minute for those of you who cannot comprehend statistics.


Jordan is therefore technically .01 more of a bricklayer than kobe bryant. These are the irrefutable facts.


Jordan = GOAT chucker

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

15 pages atleast.

bump

BATZMAN is right again

[ashbelly]

bump.

[tpols]

bump.
Is this for kobe now being a top ten all time scorer in the istory of the game?:applause:

[Disaprine]

bump.
http://www.trippytraveller.com/images/jesus-facepalm.jpg

[LA_Showtime]

Kobe's just emulating Jordan. Lol

[Eat Like A Bosh]

Kobe Bryant is very talented for sure :cheers:
But he takes a lot of difficult shots.
Early on in his career he had questionable shot selection

I think with the more talented Laker team Kobe has now, Kobe should take less shots and play within the flow. The Lakers happen to win more often when Kobe takes fewer than 20 shots. While he takes fewer shots, Kobe is also much more efficient, and totally controlled the flow of the game. Also that way Kobe can play less minutes.

What I would like to see, is Kobe shooting less, but more efficient, and average 7+ assists. kinda like taking a stepback like Duncan this year. Even if he takes only 15 FGA, Kobe's still gonna get his 20+ Points a game, and get more out of his teammates. I wonder if Kobe can ever shoot like 49% for a season?

[The Choken One]

I just don't get how this is seriously an insult... look at the phuckin' people on that list.

Kobe haters just grasping for straws.

Kobe breaks a "positive" longevity record Kobe haters say it don't matter.
Kobe breaks a "negative" longevity record, Kobe haters bust a phuckin' nut.

Stfu already. This shouldn't even be a thread...

Oh yeah...p.s....LeBron will have that record when all is said and done.

[Mamba]

trying to maintain the lowest FG% in finals history?

[Eat Like A Bosh]

Why are people being so difficult and talking about the number of bricks thrown up?
Who cares about the total stats?
The averages are the ones that matter.
Jordan shot 49.7% for his Career, Kobe shot 45.5%.
Don't get me wrong, Kobe Bryant is amazing, and definitely a top 10 all time once all is said and done.
MJ and Kobe are very similar, they have similar skillsets, similar size, and similar stats.

But as of right now, he's more like an inferior Michael Jordan.
Case Closed.
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/7194/kbvsmj.jpg

[Walduś]

trying to maintain the lowest FG% in finals history?
nah, bronzy won't let that happen.

[Soundwave]

Why are people being so difficult and talking about the number of bricks thrown up?
Who cares about the total stats?
The averages are the ones that matter.
Jordan shot 49.7% for his Career, Kobe shot 45.5%.
Don't get me wrong, Kobe Bryant is amazing, and definitely a top 10 all time once all is said and done.
MJ and Kobe are very similar, they have similar skillsets, similar size, and similar stats.

But as of right now, he's more like an inferior Michael Jordan.
Case Closed.
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/7194/kbvsmj.jpg

Kobe endorses Taco Bell? That must be the quietest marketing campaign ever because I wasn't even aware of that, lol.

I don't think he's done anything for Sprite in almost a decade either.