The difference between kobe and other superstars

[Mr. Jabbar]

His prime = His career

[EnoughSaid]

I don't know about that. Ever heard of getting old? He can still have big games, but he's not the same as he was in 05-07.

[StillKill24]

carried to chapionships.

[MrJohnWall]

His prime = His career
This..... KObe has been putting up 25 5 5 plus

for like 10 years straight lol

[Mr. Jabbar]

I don't know about that. Ever heard of getting old? He can still have big games, but he's not the same as he was in 05-07.

hes been able to switch between phisical prime, mental prime, and the combination of both as hes career unfolded, thus giving similar impact on his team every year hes been playing

[ihatetimthomas]

I don't know about that. Ever heard of getting old? He can still have big games, but he's not the same as he was in 05-07.
Athletically, he is not as explosive and he is not the same player. But what makes him so great is his ability to adapt and change. He evolves his game constantly and gets the best out of himself

[asdf1990]

Jordan put up 30 for his career and played real defense not the make believe defense the media likes to talk about.

[Hihater]

carried to chapionships.
at less spell it right.

[NBASTATMAN]

His prime = His career


The difference is clearly the talent he has been able to play with..What other superstar guard got to play with two bigs that could avg 20 and 10 plus have Odom and artest being the fourth and fifth best players on the team.. I guess you could say the only other player that may have played with that much talent is the other great from LA... Magic...

[StillKill24]

at less spell it right.
lol

[NBASTATMAN]

Athletically, he is not as explosive and he is not the same player. But what makes him so great is his ability to adapt and change. He evolves his game constantly and gets the best out of himself

except in the finals, just kidding... The dude has been great.. No matter what anyone says he is one of the greatest ever... No doubt...

[macpierce]

his numbers in the finals arent that impressive but as long as he wins im sure he could care less
nbastatman, nice edit ROFL

[StillKill24]

Jordan put up 30 for his career and pippen played real defense for him.
fixed

[asdf1990]

fixed

Pippen = 0 dpoy , Kobe= 0 dpoy Jordan = 1 dpoy.

[knightfall88]

I love how people say that Jordan could score easier in this era since you can't play defense yet criticise Kobe for not having said defense like Jordan in his era.

[KenneBell]

This season might be his best since '08 if he keeps it up.

[StillKill24]

Pippen = 0 dpoy , Kobe= 0 dpoy Jordan = 1 dpoy.
Camby = 1 dpoy, duncan = 0 dpoy :oldlol:

[ihatetimthomas]

[/B]except in the finals, just kidding... The dude has been great.. No matter what anyone says he is one of the greatest ever... No doubt...

Yea I can about he hasn't exactly been as good as he should be in the finals. I think he gets ahead of himself and gets caught up in the mement and tries to do too much at times, but he still manages to make impacts in other areas. His shot was awful in game 7 but he was huge on the glas

[asdf1990]

I love how people say that Jordan could score easier in this era since you can't play defense yet criticise Kobe for not having said defense like Jordan in his era.

Everyone knows joRdan would average 50ppg on 80/60/90 in today's era.

[TheMiz]

Everyone knows joRdan would average 50ppg on 80/60/90 in today's era.

Hell no. :lol

20ppg at best

[Micku]

Well, not in his first years in the NBA. Young Kobe was young.

In his 00-01, he started to go off. 99-00 was pretty good too.

He had his ups and downs though in his career. But starting from 05-06, he kept playing at a very elite level and never really looked back.

But Kobe survive through with longevity. He beat out T-Mac, A.I, and Vince Carter. They were his initial competition in the guard position.

It's not like he is the first longevity player ever who played at a elite level when they get in their 30s. Other superstars won MVP or played extremely well when they were old too, but Kobe is doing something similar as well. Props to him.

[Lebron23]

Everyone knows joRdan would average 50ppg on 80/60/90 in today's era.


32-36 ppg

But Jordan would be a more efficient scorer than Kobe, Wade, LeBron, and Durant.

[KenneBell]

It's not like he is the first longevity player ever who played at a elite level when they get in their 30s. Other superstars won MVP or played extremely well when they were old too, but Kobe is doing something similar as well. Props to him.
For perimeter players, he's in uncharted waters. I don't know of any other perimeter player that has played as many minutes as him for 15 straight years and hasn't really experienced much of a dropoff.

The guys playing well into their 30's are big men. MJ was great at 35 but he didn't have as many miles on his legs as Kobe does now.

[laronprofit9]

http://207.58.151.151/forum/showthread.php?t=200322


Kobe Bryant 2005 to 2010

http://socialmediaseo.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/kobe-bryant-mvp.jpg


How Long?
5 Seasons
394 Regular Season Games
79 Playoff Games
11,756 Points
15,404 Minutes
Age 27 to 31

What did he Accomplish?
5x All-NBA 1st Team
5x All-Defensive 1st Team
5x All-Star
3x NBA Finals Appearance
2x NBA Champion
1x NBA League MVP
2x NBA Finals MVP
2x Scoring Champion
2x All-Star Game MVP
1x Olympic Gold Medal

What were his stats? (2005 to 2010)

Regular Season

394 Games

29.8 ppg 5.6 rpg 5.0 apg 1.6 spg 0.4 bpg 3.1 tpg

46%FG/35%3P/85%FT
56%TS=11756/(2*(8901+.44*3434))

Playoffs

79 Games

29.8 ppg 5.7 rpg 5.4 apg 1.5 spg 0.6 bpg 3.3 tpg

47%FG/35%3P/84%FT
57%TS=2358/(2x(1779+.44*659))

Prime Kobe Bryant

Kobe Bryant's Prime has lasted for 5 years, and still looking strong this season(2010-2011) to extend it to 6 years.

The greatest prime by a perimeter player since Michael Jordan's retirement. You can just look at the accolades they speak for themselves. The Stats are MVP-Caliber. High Winning PCT. Deep Playoff Runs.

Congrats to Kobe completing one of the greatest primes ever in NBA History.

[laronprofit9]

For perimeter players, he's in uncharted waters. I don't know of any other perimeter player that has played as many minutes as him for 15 straight years and hasn't really experienced much of a dropoff.

The guys playing well into their 30's are big men. MJ was great at 35 but he didn't have as many miles on his legs as Kobe does now.

Kobe is like 90% of the player Jordan is. Which is still a really damn good player. During Kobe's prime, he was probably as good or closer than anyone will ever be to second-three peat Jordan('95-'98).

[Blue.Legend]

carried to chapionships.

You're a f***ing Idiot... No wonder you have 2 red bars with only 300 post.

Averaging 29.2 points, 5.5 assist and 6 rb on 45.8% shooting is called being carried to a championship?

[B-Low]

I was GONNA come into this thread and say "approximately one rape allegation"...but I decided to take the high road and not say it. Nope won't say it.

[JM720]

Year after year people wait for Kobe's numbers to drastically drop. Better luck next year.

[Indian guy]

There's never been a superstar who stopped being a superstar in his early 30's barring major injury. Every all-time great was still beasting at Kobe's current age.

[KenneBell]

There's never been a superstar who stopped being a superstar in his early 30's barring major injury. Every all-time great was still beasting at Kobe's current age.
True. But most of those guys started playing at 21-22 years old and were done for various reasons around their 13-14th season.

It's a mileage vs age arguement.

[Indian guy]

True. But most of those guys started playing at 21-22 years old and were done for various reasons around their 13-14th season.

It's a mileage vs age arguement.

The whole mileage argument is bogus. Unless Kobe actually starts moving like someone much OLDER than his age, it's irrelevant. Kobe doesn't look anything like an old player on the court. He still possesses a great first step, good quickness, terrific lift on his jumpers, good stamina. . .it's all still there. He still looks every bit the early 30's guy that he is. Not young, but hardly old either. There's nothing out of the ordinary about what he's doing when compared to other superstars.

There's no proof of excessive mileage limiting a star's level of play earlier than it should have. Not unless that star had a major injury.

[KenneBell]

The whole mileage argument is bogus. Unless Kobe actually starts moving like someone much OLDER than his age, it's irrelevant. Kobe doesn't look anything like an old player on the court. He still possesses a great first step, good quickness, terrific lift on his jumpers, good stamina. . .it's all still there. He still looks every bit the early 30's guy that he is. Not young, but hardly old either. There's nothing out of the ordinary about what he's doing when compared to other superstars.
I don't think it's bogus but it does tell part of the story.

Mileage is always going to be a factor IMO. I don't think Wade has experienced the athletic dropoff Kobe did from say, 24 to 29 for that reason.

[Indian guy]

I don't think it's bogus but it does tell part of the story.

Can you name a single star player with a lot of miles on his legs whose play fell significantly in his early 30's w/o injury playing a role?


Mileage is always going to be a factor IMO. I don't think Wade has experienced the athletic dropoff Kobe did from say, 24 to 29 for that reason.

Wade's always been a more freakish athlete than Kobe though. Kobe never excelled at one singular aspect of athleticism as much as Wade does with his speed. He was always going to maintain that for a long time.

[laronprofit9]

Can you name a single star player with a lot of miles on his legs whose play fell significantly in his early 30's w/o injury playing a role?



Wade's always been a more freakish athlete than Kobe though. Kobe never excelled at one singular aspect of athleticism as much as Wade does with his speed. He was always going to maintain that for a long time.

Kobe excelled at body control imo. He's been among the best ever in that aspect of athleticism.

[Mor'Fiyah]

The whole mileage argument is bogus. Unless Kobe actually starts moving like someone much OLDER than his age, it's irrelevant. Kobe doesn't look anything like an old player on the court. He still possesses a great first step, good quickness, terrific lift on his jumpers, good stamina. . .it's all still there. He still looks every bit the early 30's guy that he is. Not young, but hardly old either. There's nothing out of the ordinary about what he's doing when compared to other superstars.

There's no proof of excessive mileage limiting a star's level of play earlier than it should have. Not unless that star had a major injury.

And yet every player analyst in the world comments about Kobe being an old 32 because of the amount of years in the league and minutes played. As for evidence do you really want me to go find the evidence that the more you physically push your body the more things like cartilage wear down, and arthritis sets in, and scar tissue begins to slow the body down?! Or maybe you are not an athlete and have no frame of reference for this... but its fairly simple: The more you play the more bumps, bruises, sprains, breaks, pulls, etc you accumulate on joints that weren't made to sustain that kind of pace year in year out.

Do you honestly believe that, all else equal, a 30 year old player with 12 years in the league will have the same body as the same 30 year old player with 8 years? Seriously?

[Mor'Fiyah]

Can you name a single star player with a lot of miles on his legs whose play fell significantly in his early 30's w/o injury playing a role?



Wade's always been a more freakish athlete than Kobe though. Kobe never excelled at one singular aspect of athleticism as much as Wade does with his speed. He was always going to maintain that for a long time.

Allen Iverson? Jerry Stackhouse? Rip Hamilton?

Its also not the most obvious drop off. Players often hide it by playing more controlled. Suddenly they lay the ball up a lot more... get blocked more... they can't change direction as quickly as they used to (attributable to joint wear and tear).

[Harion]

I was GONNA come into this thread and say "approximately one rape allegation"...but I decided to take the high road and not say it. Nope won't say it.
:lol i see what you did there

[Indian guy]

And yet every player analyst in the world comments about Kobe being an old 32 because of the amount of years in the league and minutes played.

Analysts say this? When? And why does it even matter? Nothing on the court indicates that Kobe is somehow older than he is. If his total minutes point towards the mileage of a 35+ year old has, then I'd like to know why Kobe doesn't move like one. His current feats would've been extraordinary if he was actually slow and couldn't jump. Yet that isn't the case at all.

[KenneBell]

Analysts say this? When?
Come on. Basketball guys have been saying this for the past 2 years now. Even the Lakers announcers call him old man when he goes up for a dunk.

[amfirst]

The difference is clearly the talent he has been able to play with..What other superstar guard got to play with two bigs that could avg 20 and 10 plus have Odom and artest being the fourth and fifth best players on the team.. I guess you could say the only other player that may have played with that much talent is the other great from LA... Magic...

Pierce and LeBron plays with far better talent. Doesn't make a difference, except Kobe knows how to maximize his teammates talents.

[ihatetimthomas]

Can you name a single star player with a lot of miles on his legs whose play fell significantly in his early 30's w/o injury playing a role?



Wade's always been a more freakish athlete than Kobe though. Kobe never excelled at one singular aspect of athleticism as much as Wade does with his speed. He was always going to maintain that for a long time.

There are not many super star players who came in the league at his young age. Most came in in their early 20's.

Wear and tear exists, regardless of what you would like to believe. I do not think it is as big of a factor as some, but it is still a factor. The more you play, the harder it is on your body. And this guy has been playing deep into the playoffs at an early age.

[laronprofit9]

Superstars with a good work ethic keep it for a long time.

Kobe outlasted his peers Carter, McGrady, and Iverson, because of his superior work ethic. Yes work ethic can effect injuries too, because of conditioning.

Conditioning helps you prevent injuries. McGrady is an unfortunate situation with his injuries, because he's a great player, just freak stuff happened.

Kobe's had several injuries throughout his career too.

Broken Hand in 2000 season. Major Ankle injury in 2001 season. Required Knee Surgery in 2003. Major Ankle Injury in 2005. Require Knee Surgery in 2006. Broken Fingers in 2008-2010. Required Knee Surgery in 2010.

He's been through 3 knee surgeries, and is still putting up 27/5/5 in 33 mpg this season.

Kobe rehabs really quickly after surgery, and he probably wants to get back on the floor more than some of the players I mentioned above which might have to do with it.

Kobe busted his a** off, and it has paid off.

[Indian guy]

Allen Iverson?

AI at 32 was dropping 26/7/46% in Denver.


Jerry Stackhouse?

He was an inefficient chucker his whole career. Nothing changed after he turned 30. His role just became diminished because he was on better teams.


Rip Hamilton?

He's been saddled with injuries for a while now. Missed 36 games last season. 15 the year prior and only started 51 out of 67 games. Injuries have been his downfall.

[Mor'Fiyah]

Analysts say this? When? And why does it even matter? Nothing on the court indicates that Kobe is somehow older than he is. If his total minutes point towards the mileage of a 35+ year old has, then I'd like to know why Kobe doesn't move like one. His current feats would've been extraordinary if he was actually slow and couldn't jump. Yet that isn't the case at all.

Hmmm... how many players have come into the league at 18? Now look at how many of them have played at their same level for 14+ years. Also look at how many players have played at a high level for 14+ years regardless of when they came into the league. The fact that Kobe has played at such a high level for so long is precisely whats exceptional about him...

As for which analysts and when... do you watch tv? At all? Do you think the cumulative net just came up with this achievement out of thin air? Or do you not think this has been mentioned time and time again on tv? How about you google Kobe and mileage?

[StillKill24]

Averaging 29.2 points, 5.5 assist and 6 rb on 45.8% shooting is called being carried to a championship?

kobe had shaq and pau and if you combine their 5 championship runs stats into one its an average of 25/13/3/2 fg% 55. yep carried.

[Jacks3]

So Duncan came into the league two years later than Bryant and yet hasn't been a super-star caliber player for two seasons now while Kobe is still top 3 in the league.

Crazy.

[Mor'Fiyah]

AI at 32 was dropping 26/7/46% in Denver.



He was an inefficient chucker his whole career. Nothing changed after he turned 30. His role just became diminished because he was on better teams.



He's been saddled with injuries for a while now. Missed 36 games last season. 15 the year prior and only started 51 out of 67 games. Injuries have been his downfall.

LOL... so I suppose you are also of the opinion that injuries and the recovery from them are not in any way related to age?

[laronprofit9]

kobe had shaq and pau and if you combine their 5 championship runs stats into one its an average of 25/13/3/2 fg% 55. yep carried.

Larry Bird must've been carried by Kevin McHale then.. right? 26 ppg 10 rpg on 60%fg.

[Mor'Fiyah]

So Duncan came into the league two years later than Bryant and yet hasn't been a super-star caliber player for two seasons now while Kobe is still top 3 in the league.

Crazy.

Its gotten to the point now where its truly funny! I mean I never thought I would have to MAKE the argument that mileage has a direct effect on level of play for athletes all over the world much less basketball...

[laronprofit9]

Superstars with a good work ethic keep it for a long time.

Kobe outlasted his peers Carter, McGrady, and Iverson, because of his superior work ethic. Yes work ethic can effect injuries too, because of conditioning.

Conditioning helps you prevent injuries. McGrady is an unfortunate situation with his injuries, because he's a great player, just freak stuff happened.

Kobe's had several injuries throughout his career too.

Broken Hand in 2000 season. Major Ankle injury in 2001 season. Required Knee Surgery in 2003. Major Ankle Injury in 2005. Require Knee Surgery in 2006. Broken Fingers in 2008-2010. Required Knee Surgery in 2010.

He's been through 3 knee surgeries, and is still putting up 27/5/5 in 33 mpg this season.

Kobe rehabs really quickly after surgery, and he probably wants to get back on the floor more than some of the players I mentioned above which might have to do with it.

Kobe busted his a** off, and it has paid off.

Not many players can keep roughly the same numbers 10 years apart.

2000-2001

28.5ppg 5.9rpg 5.0 apg 40.9 mpg

2010-2011

26.6ppg 5.3rpg 4.6 apg 33.0 mpg

[Indian guy]

Hmmm... how many players have come into the league at 18? Now look at how many of them have played at their same level for 14+ years.

Only 1 HSer-turned-superstar besides Kobe managed to avoid major injury for much of his career, and he(KG) did just fine in his early 30's. Turned in an MVP-type season at the age of 31/32 back in 07-08. KG's play only fell after the knee injury of 08-09.


Also look at how many players have played at a high level for 14+ years regardless of when they came into the league. The fact that Kobe has played at such a high level for so long is precisely whats exceptional about him...

Yes, but these players were actually OLD by the time they were in their 14th season. Kobe's only 32 and looking every bit his age. If he actually didn't, then we could've put some stock in the whole mileage theory.


As for which analysts and when... do you watch tv?

Do you? On national tv, at least, I never hear anyone calling Kobe an 'old' 32 and being amazed by the fact that he's still doing this.

[NBASTATMAN]

[QUOTE=amfirst]Pierce and LeBron plays with far better talent. Doesn't make a difference, except Kobe knows how to maximize his teammates talents.[/QUOTE





Do you see what the cavs look like without Lebron? If anything it makes his case for being one of the greatest of all time... Pierce is clearly not on Kobe's level but he did match him in terms of play last year and outplayed him in their first title matchup...

[Indian guy]

Not many players can keep roughly the same numbers 10 years apart.

Except every superstar in NBA history has. And that's what we're talking about here - SUPERSTARS. Kobe isn't doing anything other superstars haven't. Also, of the 1 player who's been in Kobe's situation(out-of-HS superstar), he had no trouble managing to be a SUPERSTAR in his early 30's either.

[KenneBell]

Do you? On national tv, at least, I never hear anyone calling Kobe an 'old' 32 and being amazed by the fact that he's still doing this.
Since the beginning of last season I've heard Jackson, Rose, Legler, Kenny Smith, Barry, all mention that he was an old 3x. It's not like it's uncommon knowledge. :confusedshrug:

[Patrick Chewing]

His prime = His career

He should retire now then

[Indian guy]

Since the beginning of last season I've heard Jackson, Rose, Legler, Kenny Smith, Barry, all mention that he was an old 3x. It's not like it's uncommon knowledge. :confusedshrug:

But do any of 'em voice amazement at the fact that he's still doing this?

[Indian guy]

Originally Posted by Jacks3
So Duncan came into the league two years later than Bryant and yet hasn't been a super-star caliber player for two seasons now while Kobe is still top 3 in the league.

TD at 32 was putting up 19/10/50% and was still a Top 10 player in the league. That's all what matters. Age, not mileage, is ultimately what determines level of play.

[IGOTGAME]

you keep not including players falling off b/c of injury....Don't most players fall off after a surgery or injury?

Isiah? Grant Hill? T-Mac? Larry Bird? Barkley?

[Mor'Fiyah]

Except every superstar in NBA history has. And that's what we're talking about here - SUPERSTARS. Kobe isn't doing anything other superstars haven't. Also, of the 1 player who's been in Kobe's situation(out-of-HS superstar), he had no trouble managing to be a SUPERSTAR in his early 30's either.

First of all Garnett has not managed to stay at the same level even in 07/08 like you imply. His stats took a dip as they steadily had been has he got into his 30s. You know what else took a dip? His minutes... Kobe's minutes too have dropped... but yet Kobe's stats look earily similar.

Second of all... WHY did Garnett get hurt? Do you not think age has something to do with injuries to players later in their career that they never seem to be able to recover from fully or speedily? Just stop and think about it for a bit before you post...

[Mor'Fiyah]

TD at 32 was putting up 19/10/50% and was still a Top 10 player in the league. That's all what matters. Age, not mileage, is ultimately what determines level of play.

So TD at 32 was a top ten as opposed to the arguable best player in the league? Case closed then... Kobe at 32 is arguably the best player in the league.

[Mor'Fiyah]

But do any of 'em voice amazement at the fact that he's still doing this?

Nobody said this was some thats incredible moment... only that what he is doing is not some common run of the mill thing. And you are the only one saying that mileage has nothing to do with level of play...

[Indian guy]

First of all Garnett has not managed to stay at the same level even in 07/08 like you imply.

Neither has Kobe for that matter. He stats the last 3 seasons don't measure up to his 05-07 self. But like KG, he still managed to be a superstar. That's the point. KG at 31/32 in 07-08 still managed to post a Top 5 PER and set a career high in FG%. Of course, his raw averages weren't what they used to be at his peak, but that's mostly due to having better teammates in Boston. Just like Kobe's PPG went wayyy down after acquiring Gasol.


Second of all... WHY did Garnett get hurt?

Who's denying that older guys aren't more susceptible to injury? My point is that of ALL superstars who didn't maintain their level of play into their 30's, they all had career altering injuries. This does not mean they got injured after turning 30. This injury could be at any point in their career.

[Indian guy]

So TD at 32 was a top ten as opposed to the arguable best player in the league? Case closed then... Kobe at 32 is arguably the best player in the league.

:rolleyes:

The point isn't whether you're the best. The point is whether you've still managed to be a SUPERSTAR in your early 30's. And TD clearly did.

Mind you, most other all-time greats were all the Top 3-5 players in their early 30's.

[Thumdar]

I think the difference between Kobe and other superstars is his will. Sure, there have been others (Jordan) who have willed their way to success, but not that many. Kobe's work ethic is legendary and it's clearly helped him recover from surgeries, but I feel it's his will that has helped him get back on the court so quickly after being under the knife.

Sure, Lebron and Wade are also phenoms but I don't see the same level of will power that Kobe has. His mamba nick is there for a reason. Okay, go ahead and rip me for what I'm about to say but I do believe Kobe's will is going to drive him past Kareem's ultimate title.

BTW ~ I know I'm a noob here. This seemed like the best NBA forums I could find. :rockon:

[IGOTGAME]

:rolleyes:

The point isn't whether you're the best. The point is whether you've still managed to be a SUPERSTAR in your early 30's. And TD clearly did.

Mind you, most other all-time greats were all the Top 3-5 players in their early 30's.

please name me all time greats and whether they were top 3-5 players at 32...just go down the list.

[NBASTATMAN]

I think the difference between Kobe and other superstars is his will. Sure, there have been others (Jordan) who have willed their way to success, but not that many. Kobe's work ethic is legendary and it's clearly helped him recover from surgeries, but I feel it's his will that has helped him get back on the court so quickly after being under the knife.

Sure, Lebron and Wade are also phenoms but I don't see the same level of will power that Kobe has. His mamba nick is there for a reason. Okay, go ahead and rip me for what I'm about to say but I do believe Kobe's will is going to drive him past Kareem's ultimate title.

BTW ~ I know I'm a noob here. This seemed like the best NBA forums I could find. :rockon:


Didn't kobe give himself that nickname... :oldlol:


Kobe will have a chance to surpass kareems' scoring title but in my opinion he will be viewed like emmith smith.. One of the all time greats that was lucky enuff to play long enuff and with great enuff teams to accomplish great things...

[Mr. Jabbar]

I think the difference between Kobe and other superstars is his will. Sure, there have been others (Jordan) who have willed their way to success, but not that many. Kobe's work ethic is legendary and it's clearly helped him recover from surgeries, but I feel it's his will that has helped him get back on the court so quickly after being under the knife.

Sure, Lebron and Wade are also phenoms but I don't see the same level of will power that Kobe has. His mamba nick is there for a reason. Okay, go ahead and rip me for what I'm about to say but I do believe Kobe's will is going to drive him past Kareem's ultimate title.

BTW ~ I know I'm a noob here. This seemed like the best NBA forums I could find. :rockon:

Welcome to ISH.

Be adviced of a certain poster who goes around by the name of ashbelly, trolls in ways no one thought possible, he taught us the limit for negative reptaion was 7 red bars. Other than that, have fun.

[Thumdar]

Didn't kobe give himself that nickname... :oldlol:


Kobe will have a chance to surpass kareems' scoring title but in my opinion he will be viewed like emmith smith.. One of the all time greats that was lucky enuff to play long enuff and with great enuff teams to accomplish great things...

:lol That figures! I googled it and the only reference I found said that he and his family members came up with it (Yahoo answers). If that's true, that's lame. People who give themselves nicknames need to be slapped.

And yeah, maybe the Emitt Smith comparison would be true but damn ~ does it matter? If he breaks the record.., that's sick.

[Thumdar]

Welcome to ISH.

Be adviced of a certain poster who goes around by the name of ashbelly, trolls in ways no one thought possible, he taught us the limit for negative reptaion was 7 red bars. Other than that, have fun.

Thanks for the welcome and warning Jabber. :cheers:

[Mr. Jabbar]

Didn't kobe give himself that nickname... :oldlol:


Kobe will have a chance to surpass kareems' scoring title but in my opinion he will be viewed like emmith smith.. One of the all time greats that was lucky enuff to play long enuff and with great enuff teams to accomplish great things...

Luck has nothing to do with the mamba, he's perhaps the most hard-working athlete this league has ever seen, with an unmatched will to win, only comparable with MJ. Was he lucky to play with Shaq? I think both benefited from it. Was he lucky to play with Gasol? I think Gasol was more lucky (0-24 playoff record before joining the Lakers speak for itself.). No great does ever win alone, this is a team sport, and no good team is guaranteed championship, it takes alot more in the NBA.

So please, if you're gonna downgrade kobe for something, leave luck aside.

[Micku]

please name me all time greats and whether they were top 3-5 players at 32...just go down the list.

I'll try to give it a shot:

Kareem
Wilt
Russell
Hakeem
Jordan
Jerry West
Julius Erving
Elgin Baylor
Oscar Robertson
Shaq
Barkley
Karl Malone


There are also some that are very good, but may not been top 5 or whatever (due to competition).

David Robinson (could be a top 5)
Larry Bird
Pippen (could be argue for top 5)
Gary Payton
John Stockton
Steve Nash
Kevin Mchale
Alex English (you argue for top 5)
Dominique Wilkins (dude flirted with 30 ppg until 35)
George Gervin
Bernard King (injuries did him end, he was going strong until 35)
Allen Iverson
Adrian Dantley
Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett (injury did him end)
Moses Malone
Clyde Drexler
John Havlicek

The ppl up above that are not top 5 actually played some good basketball. It just that teams were never a true championship caliber, so they may not get a lot of hype. Or just injury. Some are just extremely good, but not top 5. Top 10 or something. There are probably some that I'm forgetting though.

I would toss Magic in there, but he retired. He might've kept his play and be a top 5 guy. He was second to only Jordan from becoming MVP and that would've been his third straight before he retired and all.

[bl2k8]

:rolleyes:

The point isn't whether you're the best. The point is whether you've still managed to be a SUPERSTAR in your early 30's. And TD clearly did.

Mind you, most other all-time greats were all the Top 3-5 players in their early 30's.
I'm sure it's been mentioned plenty of times, but it's about seasons with Kobe. 15 seasons plus 7 Finals trips is an insane amount of bball.

[Nevaeh]

Didn't kobe give himself that nickname... :oldlol:


Kobe will have a chance to surpass kareems' scoring title but in my opinion he will be viewed like emmith smith.. One of the all time greats that was lucky enuff to play long enuff and with great enuff teams to accomplish great things...

This, and he'll still never be considered GOAT or in the discussion.

[laronprofit9]

A players longevity comes from conditioning. Career Minutes/Career Mileage really doesn't matter as much as conditioning.

Father Time will always win eventually, but Conditioning will delay it as long as possible.

Steve Nash is an example of a very well conditioned player.

If your a player who doesn't dedicated himself/herself to conditioning and maintaining peak athletic condition to maintain high performance, games will have more wear and tear on your body.

Shawn Kemp is a good example.

Kobe Bryant is a very well conditioned athlete, arguably the most well-conditioned athlete in the game for his age.

Kobe's work ethic is what will give him a long healthy career, because he's always in great shape every single year. He never comes into a season out of shape. Along with the improvements in his skill set to make up for his lost athleticism due to age.

Many claims support that Kobe has the best work ethic in the league or one of the best, and its no coincidence why he's lasted longer than TMac, VC, and Iverson. Why he's still keeping up with younger guys like Lebron, Wade, and Durant.

Kobe will eventually grow old and get washed up, but he just trains so hard and stays in shape that it'll take a long time for that to happen. He could still be a superstar into his late 30s if he continues high level of conditioning.

[momo]

http://www.uclahottest.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/kobe-white-hot.jpg

[YAWN]

Kobe will have a chance to surpass kareems' scoring title but in my opinion he will be viewed like emmith smith.. One of the all time greats that was lucky enuff to play long enuff and with great enuff teams to accomplish great things...

Sounds like wishful thinking... Personally I don't think Kobe sticks around 'til he is not an all star caliber player.

[jtj5002]

Kobe playing with good players = reason that he scores more

Lebron playing with good players = excuse to score less

:wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: ?

[EMERE]

Everyone hates successful people or am i wrong? I guess only in America....

[Lakerlove420]

who here even watches Kobe play on a everyday basis?
or do you just look at his stats?

see the game last night? anyone?
dude is a bona fide superstar. straight up.
slowed down...yeah whatever. . the guy is a deadly threat.
Who is going to deny this???
^^^whoever does... obviously hasn't been watching..
nobody has de-throned Kobe. Nobody has (yet.)

you guys can speculate all you want...
right now ..this guy is the reigning champ!
Yes..of the WHOLE BLEEPING LEAGUE

STEP OFF ALL YOU HATERS THAT DON'T EVEN WATCH...
LET THE MEDIA HATERS AND WHOEVER INFLUENCE YOUR OPINION..
WATCH AND DECIDE FOR YOURSELF!

his conditioning is from another planet..dude is unstoppable. .
get ****ing real guys......

[tpols]

The whole mileage argument is bogus. Unless Kobe actually starts moving like someone much OLDER than his age, it's irrelevant. Kobe doesn't look anything like an old player on the court. He still possesses a great first step, good quickness, terrific lift on his jumpers, good stamina. . .it's all still there. He still looks every bit the early 30's guy that he is. Not young, but hardly old either. There's nothing out of the ordinary about what he's doing when compared to other superstars.

There's no proof of excessive mileage limiting a star's level of play earlier than it should have. Not unless that star had a major injury.
Lol mileage is what causes the physical breakdown that leads to injury...:facepalm

[Jacks3]

In terms of athleticism Kobe has certainly fallen off much more than you'd expect from a 32-yr old. His quickness, elevation, and stamina/endurance have all gone down compared to just two years ago.

[Lakerlove420]

In terms of athleticism Kobe has certainly fallen off much more than you'd expect from a 32-yr old. His quickness, elevation, and stamina/endurance have all gone down compared to just two years ago.

ok.. true of course that naturally things change and slow as time moves on.
so what..he is still in the league and one of the hugest threats.

It's like everybody wants it to happen..
they are making themselves believe that he fell off or something....
he has not by the way...



:basketball

[crisoner]

Pippen = 0 dpoy , Kobe= 0 dpoy Jordan = 1 dpoy.

Hand checking.

[Lakerlove420]

ok..
so what..he is still in the league and one of the hugest threats.


they are making themselves believe that he fell off or something....
he has not by the way...

hey hater nation.....
last nights stats. read it..then weep

31 points. 11 for 18 from the field for 61.1%
4 three pointers
5 for 5 freethrows 100%

6 assists
3 rebounds

0 turnovers

no blocks or steals but you guys can suck my c*ck
check the stats again b*tch

[bond10]

The difference between Kobe and his rivals (VC, TMaC, AI, etc.) is that he is fortunate enough to start his career in the Lakers and Phil Jackson. I love how guys like Wade and Lebron get hated for teaming up while Kobe doesn't because him and Shaq were miraculously brought together instead of doing it themselves. I bet VC, TMaC, and AI would've been motivated to play under Phil Jackson and the Lakers and probably have gotten similar results as Kobe Bryant.

[bl2k8]

The difference between Kobe and his rivals (VC, TMaC, AI, etc.) is that he is fortunate enough to start his career in the Lakers and Phil Jackson. I love how guys like Wade and Lebron get hated for teaming up while Kobe doesn't because him and Shaq were miraculously brought together instead of doing it themselves. I bet VC, TMaC, and AI would've been motivated to play under Phil Jackson and the Lakers and probably have gotten similar results as Kobe Bryant.
:cry: :cry:

[chris2010]

The difference between Kobe and his rivals (VC, TMaC, AI, etc.) is that he is fortunate enough to start his career in the Lakers and Phil Jackson. I love how guys like Wade and Lebron get hated for teaming up while Kobe doesn't because him and Shaq were miraculously brought together instead of doing it themselves. I bet VC, TMaC, and AI would've been motivated to play under Phil Jackson and the Lakers and probably have gotten similar results as Kobe Bryant.

the difference between Kobe and his rivals is work ethic. No one else in the nba has his work ethic hands down. he started in 96, jackson did not come along until a couple years later. I dont know of anyone who isnt delusional that hates them for teaming up, but instead hate their hype when they teamed up.

[KenneBell]

:cry: :cry:
:oldlol:

[bond10]

the difference between Kobe and his rivals is work ethic. No one else in the nba has his work ethic hands down. he started in 96, jackson did not come along until a couple years later. I dont know of anyone who isnt delusional that hates them for teaming up, but instead hate their hype when they teamed up.

1. Work ethic? Ray Allen? Lebron? Some guys are blessed with athleticism, Kobe's not which is why he has the strong work ethic. Look at his peers numbers if you want a comparison of production, they're nearly identical..Kobe has to work hard to get those while others don't, and that has no basis for comparing Kobe to his rivals.
2. Don't get into micro details about what exact year Phil Jackson came in, if you'd like how about I just say "Kobe quickly was under Phil Jackson". Fact is that Kobe was fortunate to have Phil Jackson, Shaq, and Laker organization early in his career.
3. All that "Kobe's a winner, Kobe's got killer instinct, Kobe's work ethic is out of this world" is overhyped. You think nobody else works hard and wants to win either? He quits when his team was bad a few years ago and demanded a trade. He's not clear-cut better than VC, T-Mac, AI, Lebron, Wade...he's just LUCKY to be a Laker.

[Mr. Jabbar]

1. Work ethic? Ray Allen? Lebron? Some guys are blessed with athleticism, Kobe's not which is why he has the strong work ethic. Look at his peers numbers if you want a comparison of production, they're nearly identical..Kobe has to work hard to get those while others don't, and that has no basis for comparing Kobe to his rivals.
2. Don't get into micro details about what exact year Phil Jackson came in, if you'd like how about I just say "Kobe quickly was under Phil Jackson". Fact is that Kobe was fortunate to have Phil Jackson, Shaq, and Laker organization early in his career.
3. All that "Kobe's a winner, Kobe's got killer instinct, Kobe's work ethic is out of this world" is true, but overmarketed crap. He quits when his team was bad a few years ago and demanded a trade. He's not clear-cut better than VC, T-Mac, AI, Lebron, Wade...he's just LUCKY to be a Laker.


No wonder you created this account just to post this nonesense. I predict record time in reaching 7 neg rep bars.

[StillKill24]

1. Work ethic? Ray Allen? Lebron? Some guys are blessed with athleticism, Kobe's not which is why he has the strong work ethic. Look at his peers numbers if you want a comparison of production, they're nearly identical..Kobe has to work hard to get those while others don't, and that has no basis for comparing Kobe to his rivals.
2. Don't get into micro details about what exact year Phil Jackson came in, if you'd like how about I just say "Kobe quickly was under Phil Jackson". Fact is that Kobe was fortunate to have Phil Jackson, Shaq, and Laker organization early in his career.
3. All that "Kobe's a winner, Kobe's got killer instinct, Kobe's work ethic is out of this world" is overhyped. You think nobody else works hard and wants to win either? He quits when his team was bad a few years ago and demanded a trade. He's not clear-cut better than VC, T-Mac, AI, Lebron, Wade...he's just LUCKY to be a Laker.
repped :applause:

[cteach111]

Kobe's greatness shines so hard that even Gandhi would kneel before his greatness & Martin Luther King would say "You are everything I ever dreamed of!"

:pimp:

[krazymofo]

dam there's alot of kobe nut hugging going in this thread, i'm headin back to the paul pierce appreciation thread now.

[Lakerlove420]

He's not clear-cut better than VC, T-Mac, AI, Lebron, Wade...he's just LUCKY to be a Laker.

not sure if serious. Actually..I know you're not serious.

[LEFT4DEAD]

Only true difference is Kobe' choking in the playoffs. Thats all.

[Zach Morris]

:oldlol:

Kobe stans vs Kobe haters Part 870973528929836.

Stans overrate him. Haters underrate him.

[LakersMiamiHate]

O-V-E-R-R-A-T-E-D!!!!! :rockon:

[f0und]

his teams. ive never seen a superstar get credited for so much success when contributing so little.

[StillKill24]

him going 6-24 and lakers still winning the title. what a joke, i guess the lakers do have their own refs.

[1Time4YourMind]

His career is similar to Kareems.... in his beginning and end he was put in a position to win championships and contend, while during his prime he was stuck with a horrendous team while putting up absurd numbers. The only difference is he didn't win MVP during the middle stretch, unless you'd call 2008 that middle stretch.

[Nevaeh]

His career is similar to Kareems.... in his beginning and end he was put in a position to win championships and contend, while during his prime he was stuck with a horrendous team while putting up absurd numbers. The only difference is he didn't win MVP during the middle stretch, unless you'd call 2008 that middle stretch.

Not to mention Kobe's MVP was more of a 'Life Time Achievement" type deal than him actually deserving it.

[KenneBell]

Not to mention Kobe's MVP was more of a 'Life Time Achievement" type deal than him actually deserving it.
:roll:

If the Hornets didn't choke, it wouldn't have been a problem. But they did, the Lakers took 1st, and the rest is history.

[justin43]

:oldlol:

Kobe stans vs Kobe haters Part 870973528929836.

Stans overrate him. Haters underrate him.

This. 1000 time over. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Lakerlove420]

haters gonna hate...
"he didn't deserve mvp....he choked they have refs"
blah blah blah

biggest horse shit statements ever .... you guys jerkin each other off..
with lies that you actually believe..so blinded .. refusing to recognize greatness.

well then.. carry on .. carry on..float your boats

[Hihater]

1. Work ethic? Ray Allen? Lebron? Some guys are blessed with athleticism, Kobe's not which is why he has the strong work ethic. Look at his peers numbers if you want a comparison of production, they're nearly identical..Kobe has to work hard to get those while others don't, and that has no basis for comparing Kobe to his rivals.
2. Don't get into micro details about what exact year Phil Jackson came in, if you'd like how about I just say "Kobe quickly was under Phil Jackson". Fact is that Kobe was fortunate to have Phil Jackson, Shaq, and Laker organization early in his career.
3. All that "Kobe's a winner, Kobe's got killer instinct, Kobe's work ethic is out of this world" is overhyped. You think nobody else works hard and wants to win either? He quits when his team was bad a few years ago and demanded a trade. He's not clear-cut better than VC, T-Mac, AI, Lebron, Wade...he's just LUCKY to be a Laker.
wait...but why can't phil make kwame brown a all star? c'mon even all kobe teammate and his coach said he got a good work ethic thats why he on another level. also you don't think phil jackson benefit from coaching 2 of the best SG of all time and 1 of the best center? u might overrated phil jackson.

[chris2010]

1. Work ethic? Ray Allen? Lebron? Some guys are blessed with athleticism, Kobe's not which is why he has the strong work ethic. Look at his peers numbers if you want a comparison of production, they're nearly identical..Kobe has to work hard to get those while others don't, and that has no basis for comparing Kobe to his rivals.
2. Don't get into micro details about what exact year Phil Jackson came in, if you'd like how about I just say "Kobe quickly was under Phil Jackson". Fact is that Kobe was fortunate to have Phil Jackson, Shaq, and Laker organization early in his career.
3. All that "Kobe's a winner, Kobe's got killer instinct, Kobe's work ethic is out of this world" is overhyped. You think nobody else works hard and wants to win either? He quits when his team was bad a few years ago and demanded a trade. He's not clear-cut better than VC, T-Mac, AI, Lebron, Wade...he's just LUCKY to be a Laker.
1) yes, better work ethic than those guys. Kobe is not athletic? GFTO w/ that.
2)Kobe was already getting comparisons to other nba greats in just his first season. yes, he was fortunate to have had Phil Jackson, Shaq. But lets be honest, its not like Kobe was just a side role player. Hes had huge games, come on now dont just ignore that. You really think P-Jax would have came back to that horrible laker team in 06 if Kobe wasnt there? Get real. Think Shaq is solely responsible for all those titles? Get real
3)Playing last year on a broken finger, swollen knees, sore ankles and backs kill your argument there. He could have easily hung up the season last year to rehabilitate, but he kept playing. No other superstar in the nba would have done that. I didnt say no on else worked hard. But some work harder than others. Can you blame him for wanting to leave? That team was terrible they looked at the time like they werent heading anywhere. 81 pt game, being much higher on the scoring list, all defensive 1st team selections, plus if you actually watch Kobe play and be objective you can see that he is clearly better those other guys. But coming from the guy who said kobe hasnt been blessed w/ athleticism I cant expect much. So being a laker means that you will be a better player? Role players possibly, but the star players will be good regardless. Gasol, Odom, Kobe, etc. would still be just as dominant on other teams.

[chris2010]

him going 6-24 and lakers still winning the title. what a joke, i guess the lakers do have their own refs.

how about you rewatch the 4th quarter of the game and you will see that the fouls were actually legit. Watch the replays, you will see actual physical contact when they were attacking the rim. dont sit there behind your computer screen acting like you remember every little drive during a 12 minute stretch 6 months ago. watch it, and you will see clearly the lakers were getting to the rim and getting calls. Idiots like you need to just drop the whole conspiracy theory thing in the nba, come up w/ one about something worthwhile that could actually be true

[RaceBannana]

"The difference between kobe and other superstars"

Kobe goes for the toughest shot possible?

[97 bulls]

There's never been a superstar who stopped being a superstar in his early 30's barring major injury. Every all-time great was still beasting at Kobe's current age.
This exactly. Its amazing how people feel that once a guy turns 30 hes old. When I get a chance. Im gonna post some numbers of the all-time greats from 30 to 33. You'll be amazed at the fact tht some players were better in their 30s thn in their 20s.

[ATL_Bball_King]

1. Work ethic? Ray Allen? Lebron? Some guys are blessed with athleticism, Kobe's not which is why he has the strong work ethic. Look at his peers numbers if you want a comparison of production, they're nearly identical..Kobe has to work hard to get those while others don't, and that has no basis for comparing Kobe to his rivals.
2. Don't get into micro details about what exact year Phil Jackson came in, if you'd like how about I just say "Kobe quickly was under Phil Jackson". Fact is that Kobe was fortunate to have Phil Jackson, Shaq, and Laker organization early in his career.
3. All that "Kobe's a winner, Kobe's got killer instinct, Kobe's work ethic is out of this world" is overhyped. You think nobody else works hard and wants to win either? He quits when his team was bad a few years ago and demanded a trade. He's not clear-cut better than VC, T-Mac, AI, Lebron, Wade...he's just LUCKY to be a Laker.


Sometimes i wonder if this site just has retard ass holes that do nothing but come on here and post crap...I dont even know if these people even know the game of basketball or they are just dumb fans trying to be heard on a little site like this...I mean i really dont get some of the posts that people write...They are so illogical and so idiotic... Like this post for example...

I mean I really dont feel like goin in on this person...But really talking about the only reason Kobe is Kobe is cause of phil...Yes phil has taught him alot but that doesnt mean he made who kobe is...I guess he made Jordan too...So i guess take away all Jordans accomplishments away by saying he is Lucky to have Phil...SO i guess put anyone in Kobe's place and they would be the all time greatest laker with the highest points in LA...So i guess any player is Lucky to have a good coach...So a coach is not lucky to have a good player...??Do you not watch kobe play...Can you not tell his leadership and determination...Being a basketball player you can tell...

I dont even know what this thread is for...Like are you serious...You are trying to convince the whole world is mad for believing Kobe is the best or second best on this planet...Not only Kobe Fans think kobe is the best...Its jus you kobe haters say some ridiculous shit sometimes that makes utterly no sense...Its like you try and go in the past and try to change shit to justify a case of why kobe shouldnt be great...Thats crazy...SO back when kobe won those championships and even now...Were and are there not other great teams in the NBA...You think Kobe sits here and gets free rides to Championships...Its just Kobe rises his team to that level and he wins the Championship with team effort...Was Pau Gasol the best PF in the game before going to LA...Even the first year when they lost...Ummmm No...Kobe pushes Pau Gasol to never settle and get better every year...


PLEASE SOMEONE TELL ME WHAT IS WRONG WITH SOME OF THESE DUMB MINDED POST...ITS HURTING MY HEAD!!!!! :banghead: :banghead:

[chris2010]

Sometimes i wonder if this site just has retard ass holes that do nothing but come on here and post crap...I dont even know if these people even know the game of basketball or they are just dumb fans trying to be heard on a little site like this...I mean i really dont get some of the posts that people write...They are so illogical and so idiotic... Like this post for example...

I mean I really dont feel like goin in on this person...But really talking about the only reason Kobe is Kobe is cause of phil...Yes phil has taught him alot but that doesnt mean he made who kobe is...I guess he made Jordan too...So i guess take away all Jordans accomplishments away by saying he is Lucky to have Phil...SO i guess put anyone in Kobe's place and they would be the all time greatest laker with the highest points in LA...So i guess any player is Lucky to have a good coach...So a coach is not lucky to have a good player...??Do you not watch kobe play...Can you not tell his leadership and determination...Being a basketball player you can tell...

I dont even know what this thread is for...Like are you serious...You are trying to convince the whole world is mad for believing Kobe is the best or second best on this planet...Not only Kobe Fans think kobe is the best...Its jus you kobe haters say some ridiculous shit sometimes that makes utterly no sense...Its like you try and go in the past and try to change shit to justify a case of why kobe shouldnt be great...Thats crazy...SO back when kobe won those championships and even now...Were and are there not other great teams in the NBA...You think Kobe sits here and gets free rides to Championships...Its just Kobe rises his team to that level and he wins the Championship with team effort...Was Pau Gasol the best PF in the game before going to LA...Even the first year when they lost...Ummmm No...Kobe pushes Pau Gasol to never settle and get better every year...


PLEASE SOMEONE TELL ME WHAT IS WRONG WITH SOME OF THESE DUMB MINDED POST...ITS HURTING MY HEAD!!!!! :banghead: :banghead:

lol you put it much meaner than i did but point all the same

[VoodooChild1970]

at less spell it right.
At least spell it right. :facepalm

[VoodooChild1970]

Sometimes i wonder if this site just has retard ass holes that do nothing but come on here and post crap...I dont even know if these people even know the game of basketball or they are just dumb fans trying to be heard on a little site like this...I mean i really dont get some of the posts that people write...They are so illogical and so idiotic... Like this post for example...

I mean I really dont feel like goin in on this person...But really talking about the only reason Kobe is Kobe is cause of phil...Yes phil has taught him alot but that doesnt mean he made who kobe is...I guess he made Jordan too...So i guess take away all Jordans accomplishments away by saying he is Lucky to have Phil...SO i guess put anyone in Kobe's place and they would be the all time greatest laker with the highest points in LA...So i guess any player is Lucky to have a good coach...So a coach is not lucky to have a good player...??Do you not watch kobe play...Can you not tell his leadership and determination...Being a basketball player you can tell...

I dont even know what this thread is for...Like are you serious...You are trying to convince the whole world is mad for believing Kobe is the best or second best on this planet...Not only Kobe Fans think kobe is the best...Its jus you kobe haters say some ridiculous shit sometimes that makes utterly no sense...Its like you try and go in the past and try to change shit to justify a case of why kobe shouldnt be great...Thats crazy...SO back when kobe won those championships and even now...Were and are there not other great teams in the NBA...You think Kobe sits here and gets free rides to Championships...Its just Kobe rises his team to that level and he wins the Championship with team effort...Was Pau Gasol the best PF in the game before going to LA...Even the first year when they lost...Ummmm No...Kobe pushes Pau Gasol to never settle and get better every year...


PLEASE SOMEONE TELL ME WHAT IS WRONG WITH SOME OF THESE DUMB MINDED POST...ITS HURTING MY HEAD!!!!! :banghead: :banghead:
:cheers:
At least someone makes sense. Just because you're pumped on your respective Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, [Insert Player Name Here] juice doesn't mean that anyone that isn't them sucks. I'm a Lakers fan and a Kobe fan but I recognize that LeBron has taken over as the best player in the game. If you make an argument for one player you're a fan and if you make an argument against them you're a hater. People need to learn to view things outside of their constricted, one player dominated worlds.

[Micku]

This exactly. Its amazing how people feel that once a guy turns 30 hes old. When I get a chance. Im gonna post some numbers of the all-time greats from 30 to 33. You'll be amazed at the fact tht some players were better in their 30s thn in their 20s.

I got time to kill and nothing is happening so...

I'll try to give it a shot:
(age 32 for all)

Kareem- 24.8 ppg, 10.8 rpg, 4.5 apg, 3.4 blks. .604% FG Won mvp.

Wilt- 20.5 ppg, 21.1 rpg, 4.5 apg. .583% FG

Russell- 13.3 ppg, 21.0 rpg, 5.8 apg, .610% FG third in mvp

Hakeem- 27.8 ppg, 10.8 rpg, 3.5 apg, 3.4 blk .517% FG 5th mvp (but this was the year he had the famous embarrassing David Robinson, the current mvp that year.)

Jordan- 30.4 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 4.3 apg, .495% FG Won mvp

Jerry West - 26.9 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 9.5 apg, .494% FG second in mvp

Julius Erving- 21.4 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 3.7 apg, .517% FG fifth in mvp

Elgin Baylor- 26.6 ppg, 12.8 rpg, 3.1 apg .429% FG

Oscar Robertson- 19.4 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 8.2 apg, .496% FG fifth in mvp

Shaq- 22.9 ppg, 10.4 rpg, 2.3 blks, .601% second in mvp

Barkley- 23.2 ppg, 11.6 rpg, 3.7 apg, .500% FG

Karl Malone- 25.7 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 4.2 apg, .519% FG (got better when he was 33-34, won mvp when he was older)

Dominique Wilkins- 28.1 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 3.8 apg, .464% FG (He only played 42 games. However, when he was 33, he had 29 ppg in 71 games)

Alex English- 29.8 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 4.0 apg, .504% FG



There are more players who played at a elite level at 32. Hardly any of them won MVP though. It's because competition was tough and/or their team sucked. But this isn't a knock on Kobe or anything. Kobe is doing something similar and everything. But this has been done before. Regardless, props to Kobe.

But yeah. The superstars in the past were no joke. They played at high level in their early 30s too. Hakeem hit his prime during his 30s. Shaq was still going strong. Jordan too. Kareem was getting mvps. There are also other players who were not top 5 in MVP, but still played extremely well. Similar stats to Kobe and everything.

[bond10]

:cheers:
At least someone makes sense. Just because you're pumped on your respective Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, [Insert Player Name Here] juice doesn't mean that anyone that isn't them sucks. I'm a Lakers fan and a Kobe fan but I recognize that LeBron has taken over as the best player in the game. If you make an argument for one player you're a fan and if you make an argument against them you're a hater. People need to learn to view things outside of their constricted, one player dominated worlds.

Wow, firstly I admit that Kobe has been top 5 in the league for a long time now (and still going). My point is that the difference between Kobe and other superstars is that he's LUCKY TO BE ON THE LAKERS (prime Shaq for first 3 rings, Phil Jackson throughout, Laker management). I'm not trying discount his legacy in anyway, I'm trying to explain to the Kobe homers that his peers were great too, but less fortunate. Get out of your shrines and throw away the Kobe statue.