How good are Magic now after trading for Turkoglu, Gilbert Arenas, J.Richardson, etc?

[sosolid4u09]

With rumours of a possible multi team trade in the works, i wonder if this will improve the Magic or not?

Orlando Out

Pietrus
Vince Carter
Gortat
Lewis

Orlando In

Turkoglu
J Richardson
Earl Clark
Gilbert Arenas

I think they want to start Bass with Howard up front.

Does this make them a better team? How will they start? Whos coming off the bench?

They are essentially losing 2 guys who were important pieces in their finals run two years ago (Lewis, Pietrus). But neither of them has played well this year. They also lose a very good back up centre in Gortat. Plus VC! Thats destroying half the team in one move.

On the other hand they acquire Richardson who has been very hot this year, and is a fantastic 3 point shooter to spread the floor for Howard. I think thats a very good pick up. They get Hedo back which will improve them no end! They have definitely missed him since he left. They also get Arenas, who is getting mixed reviews over his play this year. Is he past it? Can he still be a major contributor?

A lot of questions over this Orlando team if these trades go through.
We are looking at basically an entire new team. It will take a while to gel and see what they are really about.

[BallsOut]

Potential lineups:

Option a:
PG: Nelson/Duhon/JWill
SG: Arenas/Reddick
SF: Turkoglu/JRich/QRich
PF: Bass/Anderson/Clark
C: Howard/Orton

Pros: 2 great rebounders, 3 playmakers, instant scoring 6th man
Cons: small backcourt

Option b:
PG: Nelson/Duhon/JWill
SG: Arenas/Reddick
SF: JRich/QRich
PF: Turkoglu/Bass/Clark/Anderson
C: Howard/Orton

Pros: stretch floor with four 3pt shooters, more rebounding help for 2nd unit, 4 playmakers
Cons: small backcourt, weak bench

Option c:
PG: Arenas/Nelson/Duhon/JWill
SG: JRich/Reddick
SF: Turkoglu/QRich
PF: Bass/Clark/Anderson
C: Howard/Orton

Pros: traditional lineup, 3 playmakers and 2 good rebounders, solid pg on bench
Cons: nelson may not like taking a backseat, too many pgs

Option d: ?

Personally, I think this puts them above the Heat, but they're still not as good as the Celtics with these trades because of the lack of depth at the 5. What do you guys think?

[VishaltotheG]

They have Arenas, Nelson, Richardson, and Redick. Who starts the guard positions?

[DuMa]

its gonan take some time for everyone to start playing together and create chemistry. theyre still 3rd seed in the east at best.

[davidenk0]

I think they are in the same position they were before the trades, basically Carter and J-Rich are the same type of player, Arenas is good but he's a chucker and he can cause problems to his team and I don't think Turkeyglue will play again at the level he played before he went to the Raptors.

By the way I think option B is the better one but I'd start Bass over Turk

[AMISTILLILL]

It depends on a number of variables. I don't see this team coming out of the gate playing strong, but when they get it together they could be great. It depends on if they're firing on all cylinders immediately and how other teams are doing. Noah going down for Chicago may put the Bulls' chances of being a #3 seed in jeopardy, plus who knows if Noah can fall back into the productive minutes he had prior to surgery. Meanwhile, Boston are still hobbling through the season with injuries to their main core and reserve units. How those two teams fair in spite of injuries may work to or against Orlando's advantage as the season progresses.

To be honest, I think they're a 4th seed. I don't think Miami will be playing this hot to close out the season (obviously) and I don't think Orlando will top Boston in the seeding. It's really a toss-up now from #3 down to #8. For all we know the Knicks could make a push and continue to impress in the east. I don't rule out a top 5 seeding for NY with how far Atlanta has fallen off.

[GoldNugg21]

They have Arenas, Nelson, Richardson, and Redick. Who starts the guard positions?

Nelson, Arenas, and Richardson all start, with Redick off the bench imo.

[knightfall88]

Im glad they got rid of carter and lewis, they dont deserve to play on a championship team.

[GOBB]

Who knows, Orlando needed a change. The players they are getting rid of werent helping out. Shake things up and see what unfolds. Hedo hasnt done crap since leaving Orlando. Will he return to old or be the same crappy Hedo? J-rich and Vince to me are one in the same. Gilbert is a wildcard. How he affects Jameer if Jameer isnt traded should be interesting.

Where is Shaqattack?

[DuMa]

qrich and duhon get left out. idiots signed with orlando

[Magic Vinsanity]

I prefer option 3 to be honest, and who gives a shit if Nelson doesnt like it, the dude can be traded for all I care, he's been annoying me all year.

[Thorpesaurous]

I certainly won't sit here and say they got worse. I was a proponent of their resigning Hedo when he left. But part of that was the value of Hedo and Shard playing together. I like JRich with them better than VC for sure. And I'd say Gil gives them depth. I wouldn't start him over Nelson, but he can spell at either guard spot, and gives the bench some much needed scoring punch.

But boy are they thin up front now. I'm sure they would've loved to figure out some way to do this without giving up Gortat, but I know they just wanted to shake things up. Losing Gortat up front may not seem like much, but they have absolutely no depth up front now. They may be better equipped to play Miami now, but they're worse off against a big team like Boston or LA. If Dwight gets in foul trouble, they simply don't have the personal to do what's required on the floor for long stretches of time.

Maybe they can build another package around shooters like Redick in an effort to get some frontcourt depth. It doesn't have to be anyone of real consequence. Something like how the Heat stumbled on Dampier would be crucial for this team.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

3rd seed at best. Still no one to stop Pierce/LeBron/Wade or KG/Bosh.

[dee-rose]

This makes them extremely hard to guard.

Arenas, J-rich and Nelson are good play makers and you can't back off of them for a second. If you start Arenas, J-rich and Hedo you can't double any of them if they get hot because they're all knock down shooters. Oh and you still have Howard in the middle.

To sum it all up, this team is unguardable but at the same time they can't guard anyone that has good perimeter shooting.

[Penny4MVP2k]

I'm pretty sure Malik Allen is gonna backup Dwight at Center (if he wasn't waived recently that is). Orton's just not ready

[kentatm]

I like option C the most but the Magic really need to get another center.

[stephanieg]

Arenas is a question mark. Hedo is bad. J-Rich is a huge upgrade over Carter.

[MeLO MvP 15]

Rotation should look like:
PG: Nelson (32)- Arenas (16)- Duhon/Williams
SG: Arenas (16)- Richardson (4)- Redick (28)
SF: Turkoglu (20)- Richardson (28)- Q Rich
PF: Bass (22)- Turkoglu (16)- Andersen (10)- Allen
C: Howard (38)- Bass (10)- Allen

I would think starting Richardson and bring Gil off the bench would be an interesting experiment too. Van Gundy is going to have to play small (which he doesn't mind) with Richardson playing a lot of SF, Arenas a lot at SG, Turk a lot at PF and Bass at C. Won't be too bad when Dwight's in the game because he's such a great help defender and rebounder. Seems like they have a lot of good not great wings now. I guess it's good to have 5 guys who can get 20 pts on any night (JRich, Arenas, Nelson, Turk and Howard) and are all good shooters (except Howard). It's almost as if Otis Smith just went and got the most talent he could with his trade pieces without really caring too much about fit (and he got a lot of guys who play multiple positions).

I don't think Orlando is done yet. They'll probably look to add a big man before the deadline. Some trade partners could be Sacramento (Thompson? Landry?), Portland (Camby? Pryzbilla?) or New Jersey (Murphy?)

[Quickz]

I honestly think that this helps orlando, yes arenas can chuck the ball sometimes but he is a better three pointer shooter and ball handler then Carter. And he sometimes has a killer instinct that Carter LACKS all the time. Arenas fits well with them. I would take J-rich over carter anyday of the week, carter is such a slack and J-rich although needs a good passer to hep him out will do better good on orlando.

I like option b, dont want arenas to be the main ball handler, rather him play off the ball and be a solid sg. Think I would pefer bass instead of turk but who knows, turk might step up again.

[1rkrage]

they stand in orlando. idk where they're at right now exactly though. Later they'll be standing on the basketball floor.

[Quickz]

I certainly won't sit here and say they got worse. I was a proponent of their resigning Hedo when he left. But part of that was the value of Hedo and Shard playing together. I like JRich with them better than VC for sure. And I'd say Gil gives them depth. I wouldn't start him over Nelson, but he can spell at either guard spot, and gives the bench some much needed scoring punch.

But boy are they thin up front now. I'm sure they would've loved to figure out some way to do this without giving up Gortat, but I know they just wanted to shake things up. Losing Gortat up front may not seem like much, but they have absolutely no depth up front now. They may be better equipped to play Miami now, but they're worse off against a big team like Boston or LA. If Dwight gets in foul trouble, they simply don't have the personal to do what's required on the floor for long stretches of time.

Maybe they can build another package around shooters like Redick in an effort to get some frontcourt depth. It doesn't have to be anyone of real consequence. Something like how the Heat stumbled on Dampier would be crucial for this team.

This worries me, in games where howard is in foul trouble, the magic had gortat to back him up....now they don't so someones gotta step up

[Kurosawa0]

I have them behind Boston & Miami, but ahead of Chicago.

I think Paul Pierce won't have it as easy against Hedo/Richardson as he did last year against Barnes, and Hedo & Arenas will give Orlando better options in crunch time.

The problem I see is that they got thinner up front. It makes it much easier for Boston and Miami's bigs if Dwight gets in foul trouble... I guess Brandon Bass slides over? That would leave Orlando without a shot blocker. Not good against Wade & LeBron.

Still, they had to make a move.

[MeLO MvP 15]

I'm pretty sure Malik Allen is gonna backup Dwight at Center (if he wasn't waived recently that is). Orton's just not ready
I think Bass is gonna see a lot of minutes at center when Dwight's out. I saw Malik play last year for Denver, he's horrible.

[Nets fan 93]

Arenas|Jameer
Richardson|Reddick
Turkoglu|QRich|Clark
Bass|Anderson
Howard|Orton?

That is nice. depends how Arenas pans out.

[BallsOut]

3rd seed at best. Still no one to stop Pierce/LeBron/Wade or KG/Bosh.

Bass can hold the softy Bosh. Boston doesn't necessarily have a Wade/Lebron stopper either. They rely on team defense.

The Magic now have playmakers in Arenas/JRich/Turkoglu vs. Lebron/Wade. The problem with them was their consistency on offense. That shouldn't be a problem anymore with potentially 4 playmakers in their starting lineup.

[BallsOut]

I have them behind Boston & Miami, but ahead of Chicago.

I think Paul Pierce won't have it as easy against Hedo/Richardson as he did last year against Barnes, and Hedo & Arenas will give Orlando better options in crunch time.

The problem I see is that they got thinner up front. It makes it much easier for Boston and Miami's bigs if Dwight gets in foul trouble... I guess Brandon Bass slides over? That would leave Orlando without a shot blocker. Not good against Wade & LeBron.

Still, they had to make a move.

Too bad Miami doesn't have any scoring bigs. :oldlol:

[Jon_Koncak]

Pietrus is a big loss for them.I don't see any good wing defender there.Does J Rich play any defense?Haven't watched him a lot tbh.

[StillKill24]

Too bad Miami doesn't have any scoring bigs. :oldlol:
no worries a lebron james team is never desperate. :oldlol:

[dee-rose]

Pietrus is a big loss for them.I don't see any good wing defender there.Does J Rich play any defense?Haven't watched him a lot tbh.

Q-rich is a good defendeer and J-rich isn't a good defender but he is definitely an upgrade over Vince. Vince looked bad even with Howard in the middle, J-rich looked bad in a system that didn't give a shit about defense

[BallsOut]

Pietrus is a big loss for them.I don't see any good wing defender there.Does J Rich play any defense?Haven't watched him a lot tbh.

Pietrus let Lebron drop 35+ on him a few seasons ago in the playoffs. I can't imagine the bigger J Rich will be that bad.

[shake N bake]

best lineup in my opinion..

PG: Nelson/Arenas
SG:Arenas/Jrich
SF:JRich/Hedo
PF: Bass/Hedo
C:Howard/Orton

Bench; Hedo needs to be the 6th man.. they should trade reddick and a first round pick for another PF/C...

like Jason Thompson..

[BlackWhiteGreen]

Bass can hold the softy Bosh. Boston doesn't necessarily have a Wade/Lebron stopper either. They rely on team defense.

The Magic now have playmakers in Arenas/JRich/Turkoglu vs. Lebron/Wade. The problem with them was their consistency on offense. That shouldn't be a problem anymore with potentially 4 playmakers in their starting lineup.

What Boston does have are players that will make Wade/Bron really work on defense, whilst still being able to defend them well. In my opinion the trade really hasn't made them any better, and if Howard gets into foul trouble against Boston now it would be as good as over. Hedo's an alright defender, yeah, but not lockdown by any means. Arenas won't be able to stop Rondo or Ray, and both of those (plus Delonte West) will be able to shut him down.

[Kingwillball]

Too bad Miami doesn't have any scoring bigs. :oldlol:


Dude I don't think Heat are sweating the Magic right now..:no:

[Kingwillball]

Pietrus let Lebron drop 35+ on him a few seasons ago in the playoffs. I can't imagine the bigger J Rich will be that bad.


J rich is not the defender Pietris is and Pietris is 6'6 the same size as JRich. Arenas has no buisness on Wade and Bosh has a full 2 or 3 inches on Bass and can just elevate his shot right over him. Only hope for Magic is Turkeyglue finds his old form or they will be a team lucky to get out of the first round.

[comerb]

Too bad Miami doesn't have any scoring bigs. :oldlol:


Nah, they have driving wings w/ nothing but Howard and 6 fouls between them and domination.

This trade makes Orlando a better matchup against the Celtics... not the Heat.

[BallsOut]

No more chucking 3s on offense. They can now run actual plays like pick n roll with Dwight and Arenas or pick n roll with Dwight and Turkoglu. JRich can create his own shot in the post or by penetrating in.

Magic fans must be creaming their pants. :oldlol:

[IN-PAX-WE-TRUST]

best lineup in my opinion..

PG: Nelson/Arenas
SG:Arenas/Jrich
SF:JRich/Hedo
PF: Bass/Hedo
C:Howard/Orton

Bench; Hedo needs to be the 6th man.. they should trade reddick and a first round pick for another PF/C...

like Jason Thompson..

I think it's possible they use Richardson as a 6th man too.

[kentatm]

Bass can hold the softy Bosh.

the only player I have seen Bass ever effectively defend is Yao and that is only b/c Yao was too slow too slow to punish Bass when being fronted.

[sosolid4u09]

I personally feel their best line up is

PG: Nelson 30/ Duhon/18
SG: Arenas 26/ Reddick 22
SF: Hedo 26/ J Rich 22
PF: Bass 24/ Hedo 10/ Anderson 14
C: Howard 38/ Orton 10

Everyone give or take 4 minutes or so.
They would have Reddick and Richardson being their scoring off the bench with Duhon assisting. I think they are a bit thin up front.

[Darius]

I hope they tried for Carmelo or Paul first... bc that was the way to go.

[Derka]

What Boston does have are players that will make Wade/Bron really work on defense, whilst still being able to defend them well. In my opinion the trade really hasn't made them any better, and if Howard gets into foul trouble against Boston now it would be as good as over. Hedo's an alright defender, yeah, but not lockdown by any means. Arenas won't be able to stop Rondo or Ray, and both of those (plus Delonte West) will be able to shut him down.

That's kinda how I'm feeling about these moves, but I can only surmise that SVG has a whole different kind of offensive/defensive playbook in mind that gives these moves a more logical base to stand on.

[broy]

They should trade Jameer and Anderson to Charlotte for Tyrus Thomas, i think. Thomas can play at both 4 and 5.

Arenas (36) / Duhon (12)
J-Rich (24) / Redick (24)
Hedo (36) / J-Rich (12)
Thomas (24) / Bass (24)
Howard (36) / Thomas (12)

+ Q-Rich, Orton, J-Will, Clark.

[Magic Vinsanity]

LOL@Celtics fans trying to convince everybody and themselves that Orlando arent better after getting rid of Rashard and Vince who have played shitty all year, and Gortat who has been pathetic.

[sosolid4u09]

They should trade Jameer and Anderson to Charlotte for Tyrus Thomas, i think. Thomas can play at both 4 and 5.

Arenas (36) / Duhon (12)
J-Rich (24) / Redick (24)
Hedo (36) / J-Rich (12)
Thomas (24) / Bass (24)
Howard (36) / Thomas (12)

+ Q-Rich, Orton, J-Will.

i'd rather give up Duhon now that they arenas to play pg and sg, and reddick and richardson who both can play SG aswel.

I dont think they should give up nelson at all

[IGOTGAME]

I will say this about Orlando...They have a lot of big shot makers. Nelson,JRich, Arenas, Hedo all take and make huge shots. If Dwight continues to become better as a passer he could win with this squad if they add another big.

This is one of the best shooting teams that I have seen put together in some time.

[macpierce]

good deal for the magic, IMO they need one more big body though

[Duncan21formvp]

Potential lineups:

Option a:
PG: Nelson/Duhon/JWill
SG: Arenas/Reddick
SF: Turkoglu/JRich/QRich
PF: Bass/Anderson/Clark
C: Howard/Orton

Pros: 2 great rebounders, 3 playmakers, instant scoring 6th man
Cons: small backcourt

Option b:
PG: Nelson/Duhon/JWill
SG: Arenas/Reddick
SF: JRich/QRich
PF: Turkoglu/Bass/Clark/Anderson
C: Howard/Orton

Pros: stretch floor with four 3pt shooters, more rebounding help for 2nd unit, 4 playmakers
Cons: small backcourt, weak bench

Option c:
PG: Arenas/Nelson/Duhon/JWill
SG: JRich/Reddick
SF: Turkoglu/QRich
PF: Bass/Clark/Anderson
C: Howard/Orton

Pros: traditional lineup, 3 playmakers and 2 good rebounders, solid pg on bench
Cons: nelson may not like taking a backseat, too many pgs

Option d: ?

Personally, I think this puts them above the Heat, but they're still not as good as the Celtics with these trades because of the lack of depth at the 5. What do you guys think?


Option C is the best lineup for them if they want to win it all.

[BallsOut]

LOL@Celtics fans trying to convince everybody and themselves that Orlando arent better after getting rid of Rashard and Vince who have played shitty all year, and Gortat who has been pathetic.

Also Heat fans trying to brush it off :oldlol:

[broy]

i'd rather give up Duhon now that they arenas to play pg and sg, and reddick and richardson who both can play SG aswel.

I dont think they should give up nelson at all

Who can you get in return for Duhon?

[sosolid4u09]

Who can you get in return for Duhon?

thats a problem. But if you throw Anderson in the deal they should be able to get a decent pf/c role player. Maybe not someone as good as Thomas. Just think losing Nelson would be a step too far. There are chemistry issues to consider aswel when making these multi player trades.

Someone like gooden? Hickson even. Nothing special at all just solid guys who could play 10-15 minutes a game off the bench

[Derka]

LOL@Celtics fans trying to convince everybody and themselves that Orlando arent better after getting rid of Rashard and Vince who have played shitty all year, and Gortat who has been pathetic.

That's not true at all. Getting rid of Vince and Rashard were great moves, and getting Hedo and J-Rich in return keeps some shot-makers out on the floor for Orlando. Just curious to see how they do without a big body to sub in when Howard gets in foul trouble, which you know he will. Bass has played excellent but he gives up a bunch of height to some teams you're gonna see in the playoffs. That's what makes me think SVG has some kind of different offensive and defensive schemes he's cooking up to suit these four new players a little better.

[BallsOut]

That's not true at all. Getting rid of Vince and Rashard were great moves, and getting Hedo and J-Rich in return keeps some shot-makers out on the floor for Orlando. Just curious to see how they do without a big body to sub in when Howard gets in foul trouble, which you know he will. Bass has played excellent but he gives up a bunch of height to some teams you're gonna see in the playoffs. That's what makes me think SVG has some kind of different offensive and defensive schemes he's cooking up to suit these four new players a little better.

Yep, this is why I still think the Celtics are better. However, the Magic now have consistent offense which is what I think puts them ahead of the Heat as a team.

[redbull]

I don't think they're worse but I don't think they've made themselves a whole lot better either. Not sure how they're gonna find minutes for everyone in the backcourt... would've made more sense if they didn't match Redick's big offer sheet this offseason.

Would've liked their day alot more without the Lewis-Arenas trade. Arenas has been playing better but there's obviously the character issues and the backcourt surplus. Love the move for Jrich and Turk though I was really hoping the Bulls could've traded for one of those guys. And they got rid of Vince who will just disappear in the playoffs anyway.

[Derka]

Yep, this is why I still think the Celtics are better. However, the Magic now have consistent offense which is what I think puts them ahead of the Heat as a team.

Well, you really have to hope Turkoglu can perform at a much higher level than he has been since he left. He was damn near useless in Toronto and Phoenix. Being back with Dwight and Jameer may get him moving in the right direction again? Who knows.

I personally think you'll do well with Arenas who is a guy with something to prove after what he went through last year.

[bih]

Hedo back :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


and Arenas ballhog and chucker :roll:

[ReturnofJPR]

They should trade Jameer and Anderson to Charlotte for Tyrus Thomas, i think. Thomas can play at both 4 and 5.

Arenas (36) / Duhon (12)
J-Rich (24) / Redick (24)
Hedo (36) / J-Rich (12)
Thomas (24) / Bass (24)
Howard (36) / Thomas (12)

+ Q-Rich, Orton, J-Will, Clark.

From a Bulls fan, Tyrus can NOT play C. :roll:

[FindingTim]

I think they are significantly better

and option C is the best lineup:
PG: Arenas/Nelson/Duhon/JWill
SG: JRich/Reddick
SF: Turkoglu/QRich
PF: Bass/Clark/Anderson
C: Howard/Orton

I have a feeling Turkoglu is going to find his groove again in Orlando
Arenas can still ball
Nelson as a backup pg is stellar

Isn't there a Dampier/Mbenga type player somewhere out there, or maybe a P.J. Brown?? With this improved offensive team, Orlando is one tough big man away from being a real threat.

[kNIOKAS]

OMG WHAT WERE THEY THINKING!!! SUNS AND WIZARDS = FOOLS AND MORONS!!!!
i like what magic got from the trades, but when you put things into perspective... it's just as dumb. really? overpay lewis and then trade him after couple of years???? what's that. what's with not overpaying turko and then trading for him? wow.
i think these three teams got what they deserved. they got ****ed.

[L.Kizzle]

I don't think the Orlando Magic are done. They got rid of their best perimeter player in Pietrus.

Who's gonna guard the Pierce/Allen and Wade/James duo's of the East?

[DeronMillsap]

So Brandon Bass fantasy stock just skyrocketed?

I think he's still available in my league. :applause:

[MMM]

Hedo hasn't been good for a few years now even going back to his last year in Orlando. I like that they added J-rich but i'm not sold on Arenas being the distributor they need but he could be the closer they've been looking for since Hedo left.

[1987_Lakers]

Risky trade by the Magic, but it had to be done. The Magic were not the same once they swapped Hedo for Vince & now Hedo is back, Rashard Lewis has really degressed as a player so it was a good move to get rid of him. Jason Richardson is gonna fit fine with the Magic, but I'm not sure about Arenas. The player the Magic are gonna miss most is Pietrus. I see the Magic improving offensively, but degressing a bit defensively, but the Magic at this point desperately need some offense.

[RoTM]

From a Bulls fan, Tyrus can NOT play C. :roll:

Most of his minutes for Charlotte are at center this year. 82 games says hes putting up a 26 per so far this year at the position.

[RaceBannana]

How good are Magic now after trading for Turkoglu, Gilbert Arenas, J.Richardson, etc?

still not enough to win a title......

[Jasper]

Risky trade by the Magic, but it had to be done. The Magic were not the same once they swapped Hedo for Vince & now Hedo is back, Rashard Lewis has really degressed as a player so it was a good move to get rid of him. Jason Richardson is gonna fit fine with the Magic, but I'm not sure about Arenas. The player the Magic are gonna miss most is Pietrus. I see the Magic improving offensively, but degressing a bit defensively, but the Magic at this point desperately need some offense.
right on 87 Lak

Ironically Turk yesterday I mentioned was possibly going to a elite contender , and I guessed to a west coast team , and :oldlol: that Orlando wanted him back after their mistake giving him up...
Turk .. must be smiling from ear to ear , getting to play again with Howard and Nelson... ironically Rash Lewis best play days were when he got force feed from Turk's passes...
Orlando gave up Pietrus who played pretty good d against east coast playoff teams as well as Kobe in the championship game .. Majic will miss him.
----------
freaky weird ,,, Carter lands on a team that will help him as Kidd did to him in Netland .... Nash and him will be like two peas in a pod.

[Arroyo8]

they will struggle early one until they gell, this upcoming schedule will not help

atl
dallas
boston
san antonio

[Jasper]

they will struggle early one until they gell, this upcoming schedule will not help

atl
dallas
boston
san antonio

Gil will slide to SG with real comfort .. prolem is where is the defense ??
Turk .. might have to find his rythem .. but if he just owns the ball from the get .. he'll fit quicker than most think ...

I get the sneaky feeling Stan is going to ask Turk to run the second team ... which would make Orlando super dangerous ... question is will Turk find and feel his game as a 2nd team leader :confusedshrug:

[BallsOut]

I get the sneaky feeling Stan is going to ask Turk to run the second team ... which would make Orlando super dangerous ... question is will Turk find and feel his game as a 2nd team leader :confusedshrug:

Why would Stan ask Turk to do that? Turk has proven to be a great complement with Dwight Howard. They're going to run the 3/5 pick n roll or the 4/5 pick n roll a lot together. Turk isn't a great scorer by himself. If anyone is delegated to the 6th man role, it should be either Nelson, Arenas, or IMO JRich (he's done well at this role before).

[KareemCambell]

vince will enjoy playinhg with nash methinks

[DeronMillsap]

I personally feel their best line up is

PG: Nelson 30/ Duhon/18
SG: Arenas 26/ Reddick 22
SF: Hedo 26/ J Rich 22
PF: Bass 24/ Hedo 10/ Anderson 14
C: Howard 38/ Orton 10

Everyone give or take 4 minutes or so.
They would have Reddick and Richardson being their scoring off the bench with Duhon assisting. I think they are a bit thin up front.

I like this line up as well but give Arenas a few more minutes(30-33). :applause:

Cut Duhon's minutes. He sucks.

[wagexslave]

Having Earl Clark on your team automatically makes you worse. The guy is horrible lol

[Kujo]

Having Earl Clark on your team automatically makes you worse. The guy is horrible lol

I liked his game from what I saw at Louisville, but he's been a bust in the NBA. He's not going to get any minutes in ORL either.

The Magic should be better (they are on paper), but a lot of that is going to depend on how Turk plays. I think J-Rich will play well right off the bat, and Gilbert will have to adjust to being the sixth man.

[wagexslave]

I liked his game from what I saw at Louisville, but he's been a bust in the NBA. He's not going to get any minutes in ORL either. I clench up every time he gets the ball. He looks so nervous out there, complete deer in the headlights... then he just chucks up shots and misses like 75% of them even in garbage minutes lol. He just doesn't have the confidence it takes to be in the NBA :confusedshrug:

[GatorKid117]

Arenas will most certainly not be a 6th man. He will start. SVG has already come out and said that Nelson will start as well. So with that said:

Nelson
Arenas
J-Rich
Bass
Howard

I see this as the most likely starting lineup. Obviously it's very small but it packs a punch and with Howard, you don't really need any great perimeter defenders to have a great defense anyway. The only other feasible lineup is swapping out J-Rich with Turkoglu but I don't think that will be the case. Should be interesting to see what the rotations look like.

[BallsOut]

Arenas will most certainly not be a 6th man. He will start. SVG has already come out and said that Nelson will start as well. So with that said:

Nelson
Arenas
J-Rich
Bass
Howard

I see this as the most likely starting lineup. Obviously it's very small but it packs a punch and with Howard, you don't really need any great perimeter defenders to have a great defense anyway. The only other feasible lineup is swapping out J-Rich with Turkoglu but I don't think that will be the case. Should be interesting to see what the rotations look like.

I don't like it. You're putting guys in spots they don't excel at. Hedo is better off starting as he did in 2009 when the Magic went to the finals. JRich has exceled as a 6th man before so I say put him and even possibly Nelson onto the bench to combat the undersized backcourt problem.

[Vman23]

Hedo hasn't been good for a few years now even going back to his last year in Orlando. I like that they added J-rich but i'm not sold on Arenas being the distributor they need but he could be the closer they've been looking for since Hedo left.


Gilbert is a far better playmaker than people think. He had a game this year against Detroit where he had 16 assists, and they were mostly all coming from him finding guys in the right spot.

[ballup]

Risky trade by the Magic, but it had to be done. The Magic were not the same once they swapped Hedo for Vince & now Hedo is back, Rashard Lewis has really degressed as a player so it was a good move to get rid of him. Jason Richardson is gonna fit fine with the Magic, but I'm not sure about Arenas. The player the Magic are gonna miss most is Pietrus. I see the Magic improving offensively, but degressing a bit defensively, but the Magic at this point desperately need some offense.
Agreed. I'm actually concerned about the rotation from 1-3. Someone is gonna get shafted and it might cause some egos to flare.

On the other hand, Dwight and Arenas joking around might be entertaining. Just hope Arenas doesn't take it too far like he's done in the past.

[GatorKid117]

I don't like it. You're putting guys in spots they don't excel at. Hedo is better off starting as he did in 2009 when the Magic went to the finals. JRich has exceled as a 6th man before so I say put him and even possibly Nelson onto the bench to combat the undersized backcourt problem.

This is not the Hedo of old though. I honestly hope Hedo comes back and plays as well as he did before, but I don't think that's going to be the case. Being traded to the Magic is not going to magically (pun intended) transform him from a pretty much worthless player to starter quality player on a contending team. Hedo works best with the ball in his hands and with the 2nd unit he can do that. He's not going to be the primary ball-handler with both Arenas and Nelson starting. J-Rich is a much better spot-up shooter then Turk and probably a better defender too so he'd work better at starting SF.

Anyway, this is just my rationalization of the scenario. I would be alright with Turk starting but I feel the lineup with J-Rich would work better.

[Reverend Hoops]

On the other hand, Dwight and Arenas joking around might be entertaining. Just hope Arenas doesn't take it too far like he's done in the past.

I would love to see that Gilbert. Since the "incident" he has been pretty cold.

[nevetslc88]

http://i54.tinypic.com/eb5tmp.jpg

Dwight needs to bounce and come join the Lakers :D

[JustinJDW]

Like Aldrige said on NBA TV, I think the Magic are easier to guard now.

I really don't think the Magic got any better with this trade. They pretty much went sideways, if not, maybe even a little backwards. They lost size, a veteran scorer who can still put up 25+ on a big night, and one of the most well rounded roleplayers in the league in Pietrus, who is a total knock down lights out shooter and nice defender. For Turk, who has a big contract, looks like can be on the decline and needs the ball to be effective, and J-Rich. But J-Rich is good.

Besides Howard, they are garbage defensively. Garbage. Gortat and Pietrus were great on defense, and they traded them for the two wing players who were part of the worst defensive team in the league. And who knows what the **** Arenas is going to do.

I'm sorry, I just think a lot of things have to work out for the Magic for them to have a plus on this deal. This team ain't gonna beat the Celtics.

[OldSchoolBBall]

They still need more size up front to contend with Boston and LA.

[JustinJDW]

They still need more size up front to contend with Boston and LA.This.

KG, Perkins, Shaq, Jermaine, Big Baby and that Turkey kid > Dwight and Brandon Bass? :oldlol:

[GatorKid117]

Like Aldrige said on NBA TV, I think the Magic are easier to guard now.

I really don't think the Magic got any better with this trade. They pretty much went sideways, if not, maybe even a little backwards. They lost size, a veteran scorer who can still put up 25+ on a big night, and one of the most well rounded roleplayers in the league in Pietrus, who is a total knock down lights out shooter and nice defender. For Turk, who has a big contract, looks like can be on the decline and needs the ball to be effective, and J-Rich. But J-Rich is good.

Besides Howard, they are garbage defensively. Garbage. Gortat and Pietrus were great on defense, and they traded them for the two wing players who were part of the worst defensive team in the league. And who knows what the **** Arenas is going to do.

I'm sorry, I just think a lot of things have to work out for the Magic for them to have a plus on this deal. This team ain't gonna beat the Celtics.

Vince has put up 25 once this season. And Pietrus well-rounded? 75% of his FGA are 3pt. He can't dribble or create his own shots and his IQ was the worst on the team. And that's saying something because the Magic are not a particularly smart team. Sure his defense is alright but certainly nothing special. He gets lit up all the time. LeBron, Pierce, Wade etc have their way with him constantly. Gortat will be a loss but what good does his defense do if he's just sitting on the bench?

The biggest qualm about the Magic was how if you just guard Howard 1v1 none of the other players could create their own shot. A healthy (we'll see) Arenas give them that potential player. Hedo I think will be terrible so that's whatever but J-Rich like you said is good.

Celtics are still easily the favorites imo but these trades at least give the Magic a fighting chance now. The lack of size like you said though is a huge problem. They have to sign someone or pull off a small trade for some more depth.

[Harrison_Barnes]

How good they are all depends on how they work out the rotation..

[Nobler]

Lateral movement IMO

[iamgine]

I think this is a great great deal for Orlando Magic.

Magic got much deeper and stronger in the small department. Dwight will be playing more minutes now his backup center is gone but I doubt that's a problem since with the firepower addition (Arenas, Hedo, J Rich), Dwight doesn't need to expand too much energy in stretches now. Dwight can concentrate more on the defensive end and have more energy despite playing more minutes. Orlando will have the same defense + much better offense is my prediction.

[IGOTGAME]

They still need more size up front to contend with Boston and LA.

you forgot Miami. You need size to counteract Lebron's bulldozing to the basket. This team would give LA trouble but not Miami and Boston imo.

Orlando really needs another big. If they really want to go for it this year then they need to call up Portland and make a move. Camby would be a good choice.

[Take Your Lumps]

Like Aldrige said on NBA TV, I think the Magic are easier to guard now.

I really don't think the Magic got any better with this trade. They pretty much went sideways, if not, maybe even a little backwards. They lost size, a veteran scorer who can still put up 25+ on a big night, and one of the most well rounded roleplayers in the league in Pietrus, who is a total knock down lights out shooter and nice defender. For Turk, who has a big contract, looks like can be on the decline and needs the ball to be effective, and J-Rich. But J-Rich is good.

Besides Howard, they are garbage defensively. Garbage. Gortat and Pietrus were great on defense, and they traded them for the two wing players who were part of the worst defensive team in the league. And who knows what the **** Arenas is going to do.

I'm sorry, I just think a lot of things have to work out for the Magic for them to have a plus on this deal. This team ain't gonna beat the Celtics.

HOLY SHIT! Now I've heard everything... :roll:

[sixer6ad]

Every breathing NBA player hates the Heat, and so will the Magic. I personally think this will get them to eye each other up and demand. What that will do is yet to be seen, but this all about beating the Heat. I hope it works.

[Hondo]

Watch Nelson get traded within a month.

[Stuckey]

Watch Nelson get traded within a month.

they should try and get andre miller

[Lebron23]

they should try and get andre miller


or Chauncey Billups.

[ClearYourMind]

This trade really puts Nelson on the hot seat. But then again, Gilbert really isn't too different from Nelson. So really, the Magic just added another Nelson.

[LakersMiamiHate]

:oldlol: :oldlol: @ this goofy team.. if Howard is in foul trouble, they are losing each one of those game

[kabalcage]

They key point of this trade is to address three point shooting.

The guys they had were a bunch of guys that liked chucking 3s, but were unnatural three point shooters except Rashard. But Rashard has been beyond awful. Carter had an okay fit and that Magic team was equally good to the Hedo finals team. It's just that they were never truly elite and were never going to be. For that, a move was necessary.

Now...

There are a bunch of elite marksmen on the perimeter and they can go back to their old philosophy to a tee. 1 in 4 out; this time with the best perimeter shooters they've ever had. So offensively they should be better. Those guys are all terrible defenders, but Dwight has single handily kept the Magic elite defensively even with awful defenders.

Even then, they still need a Matt Barnes like guy. Just one guy to come in and check elite players off the bench. With all this shooting, JJ Redick might be squeezed out and another asset for a deal. Magic should look into a JJ / Corey Brewer swap. Something, they need some sort of defensive guy. I still don't see them getting anywhere deeper; they're too gimmicky.

[d.bball.guy]

My Lineup

PG: Nelson/Duhon/J-Will
SG: Arenas/J-Rich/Redick
SF: J-Rich/Hedo/Q-Rich
PF: Bass/Hedo/Anderson/Clark
C: Dwight/Orton/*insert a reliable PF here*

[bluechox2]

if orlando thinks they can take over front page of espn after these, their wrong.
there wont be any love period of waiting to see the magic gel like the heat has recieved.

[dallaslonghorn]

People want to act like basketball is really complicated ... it's not.

If you have a 7 foot monster at the front of the rim, it's really easy to play defense. You play aggressive man-to-man D and if they get by you they are not going to get an easy basket ... there's a really tall guy with really long arms who jumps really high in their way.

So you don't really need to have great defenders in front of Dwight Howard. The Magic are pretty much always going to have a great defense regardless.

Now they have a lot of guys who can't play D (which doesn't matter in Orlando) but can get buckets -- there are four of them (Nelson, J.Rich, Arenas, Turkoglu) plus the best finisher at the rim in the game and a couple more 3-point shooters.

That's a top 5 defense and a top 5 offense ... Orlando looks like the best team in the East to me.

Which should tell you how much Wade and LeBron's "character" and "intangibles" matter ... not at all. It's simply a matter of logic: if I am bigger than you, faster than you and taller than you, there really isn't much you can to prevent me from putting a ball through a raised cylinder. I am going to dribble it to the front of the rim, put it above my head and shoot a 2-foot lay-up. That's it. That's all it is.

[dallaslonghorn]

Unless you have MJ on your team, the team with the biggest, tallest and most athletic dudes tends to win.

Look at the titles since MJ retired: Duncan/Shaq x3/Duncan/Wallace "brothers"/Duncan/Shaq/Duncan/KG/Gasol+Odom x2

Kobe put up 35/5/5 and was a first-team All-Defense player ... and his team won 45 games.

If you told me Kobe would average 15 points a game in the playoffs ... I would STILL bet on a healthy Lakers team to at least make it to the Finals.

It's not that he's not a great player, he is, but the stuff he does really isn't all that important.

[IN-PAX-WE-TRUST]

Unless you have MJ on your team, the team with the biggest, tallest and most athletic dudes tends to win.

Look at the titles since MJ retired: Duncan/Shaq x3/Duncan/Wallace "brothers"/Duncan/Shaq/Duncan/KG/Gasol+Odom x2

Kobe put up 35/5/5 and was a first-team All-Defense player ... and his team won 45 games.

If you told me Kobe would average 15 points a game in the playoffs ... I would STILL bet on a healthy Lakers team to at least make it to the Finals.

It's not that he's not a great player, he is, but the stuff he does really isn't all that important.

I think that's kind of an outrageous comment. Lakers can win a game or two in the playoffs with a mediocre/decent Kobe, but they won't win a championship if he isn't elite for the majority of the games.

[dallaslonghorn]

I think that's kind of an outrageous comment. Lakers can win a game or two in the playoffs with a mediocre/decent Kobe, but they won't win a championship if he isn't elite for the majority of the games.

I disagree. You give me a 100% healthy Andrew Bynum, Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom ... and there's a pretty good chance I'm going to win a championship.

1) I throw the ball into one of my big men at the high post.

2) He raises the ball over his head.

--> He throws the ball to my other big man at the front of the rim above the outstretched arms of the defenders. The other big man keeps the ball above his head and gingerly places it through the cylinder.

--> Or he attacks the basket, and uses his superior length and quickness to get to the front of the rim.

Give me three guards who can dribble the ball, hit an open jumper and are willing to try on defense ... I like my chances.

You can have Kobe and LeBron and Wade and whoever you want on the perimeter ... my guys will crowd them and force them to take either contested jumpers or send them dribbling into guys with really long arms who can jump as high as they can.

All these little guys who can dribble and pound their chest and hoot and holler ... it's all good fun ... I enjoy watching it myself ... but it does not really matter ... it's just sound and fury, signifying nothing.

[davidenk0]

Watch Nelson get traded within a month.
What about this

Magic gets: Steve Nash, Hakim Warrick
Phoenix gets: Jameer Nelson, Quentin Richardson and JJ Redick.

[vitamink420]

I think the Magic got slightly better, but it still won't work unless they get some kind of servicable big. Like everyone else has said, if Dwight gets in foul trouble it's not gonna be pretty. They should definitely trade for one of the big guys on SAC.
And even though I think he's a great player, I think Jameer Nelson has to go. His style is just terrible with the Magic. And I can't take one more game where they're down single digits with 2:00 or less left in the game, and he nonchalantly dribbles the ball around for 23 seconds and fires up a terrible shot. Arenas has his problems, but I think he fits the team style a little better than nelson does.
Glad to see Turk back but he'll most likely continue to be a big pile of suck.
Really excited about J-Rich coming over. Perfect style to play with the Magic and he's a lot more consistent than Carter. No one who's been regularly watching Magic games will miss Pietrus. He was a decent player but he is notorious for making terrible ball decisions.

[SAKOTXA]

Jameer Nelson/Anderson + first rounders for Josh Smith. :lol

[LA KB24]

Im glad they got rid of carter and lewis, they dont deserve to play on a championship team.
>implying Orlando is a championship team.

[wagexslave]

What about this

Magic gets: Steve Nash, Hakim Warrick
Phoenix gets: Jameer Nelson, Quentin Richardson and JJ Redick.
How about this: No.

[jamal99]

How good is Earl Clark?

[dallaslonghorn]

How good is Earl Clark?

If you saw him at Louisville ... the answer is very, very good!

Put the ball in his hands and he can do work. He also has the physical profile of a good defender at the 4.

His main problem is that he's not much of a shooter ... which makes it hard for him to play off of the ball.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

Yeah, the problem here is that Orlando think they are good enough to be Eastern Champions, because they were in 09. What they forget is that Boston has KG back, Rondo is better, Big Baby is better, and Boston has a much better bench than in 09. They realised they weren't that good but blamed personality (in Carter's case vs Hedo) and a slump (In 'Shard's case vs 09 Shard) and are trying anything to be that team in 09 again (which, by the way, they aren't as good as). They've taken a risk on a player who wasn't playing very well for a bad team (Arenas) and taken on a volume scorer who can't play D (Richardson) with what they are hoping is 09 Hedo (will he be as good? I doubt it) whilst sacrificing any chemistry they gained and their big man depth.

In my opinion, they got worse in the short term. Maybe in a year or 2 with some shrewd pick ups they can compete with Miami, once the Celtics decline. But are they going to get past Boston or Miami this year? Hell no.

[dallaslonghorn]

Yeah, the problem here is that Orlando think they are good enough to be Eastern Champions, because they were in 09. What they forget is that Boston has KG back, Rondo is better, Big Baby is better, and Boston has a much better bench than in 09. They realised they weren't that good but blamed personality (in Carter's case vs Hedo) and a slump (In 'Shard's case vs 09 Shard) and are trying anything to be that team in 09 again (which, by the way, they aren't as good as). They've taken a risk on a player who wasn't playing very well for a bad team (Arenas) and taken on a volume scorer who can't play D (Richardson) with what they are hoping is 09 Hedo (will he be as good? I doubt it) whilst sacrificing any chemistry they gained and their big man depth.

In my opinion, they got worse in the short term. Maybe in a year or 2 with some shrewd pick ups they can compete with Miami, once the Celtics decline. But are they going to get past Boston or Miami this year? Hell no.

Miami is done. Who is stopping D12 from dunking on them? Erick Dampier :oldlol:

None of the players Orlando brings in needs to be good at defense ... Check out Hedo's defensive rating the last few seasons; a DPOY behind you just makes your life a whole lot easier.

This sets up an epic Boston-Orlando re-match ... and DO NOT THINK THEY CAN'T BEAT YOU ... they can.

J-Rich has never played with a top 5 center before ... and Tony Allen is gone. He's too fast for Ray Ray. Hedo is 6'10; he's to tall for Pierce -- we've already seen this.

It looks like Dallas/LA and Boston/Orlando in the conference finals ... with Chicago, Miami and San Antonio right there too ... the playoffs are going to be amazing this season.

[zORi]

Like Aldrige said on NBA TV, I think the Magic are easier to guard now.

I really don't think the Magic got any better with this trade. They pretty much went sideways, if not, maybe even a little backwards. They lost size, a veteran scorer who can still put up 25+ on a big night, and one of the most well rounded roleplayers in the league in Pietrus, who is a total knock down lights out shooter and nice defender. For Turk, who has a big contract, looks like can be on the decline and needs the ball to be effective, and J-Rich. But J-Rich is good.

Besides Howard, they are garbage defensively. Garbage. Gortat and Pietrus were great on defense, and they traded them for the two wing players who were part of the worst defensive team in the league. And who knows what the **** Arenas is going to do.

I'm sorry, I just think a lot of things have to work out for the Magic for them to have a plus on this deal. This team ain't gonna beat the Celtics.

Lol, I will miss the guys that were shipped out, but I think you're overstating their value a bit.

Vince Carter is not dropping 25 on anybody on a big night. Unless he's taking 25~ shots.

Pietrus is far from well-rounded. For all his athleticism, the guy has taken 6 FT's total this year. 6! That's like 1 every 4 games. I'll miss his D, but it marginally overstated by the league how good he is defensively. He bites on every single pump fake ever, by anyone, ask Pierce. Still, I'll miss the guy.

Turk will most likely be starting, where he'll have the ball in his hands. If not, then he'll come off the bench where he'll definitely have the ball more; don't expect he and Arenas to play many minutes with each other. He doesn't need to be '09 Turk, but he does need to be at least near him.

Also, did you see how Gortat did against Bogut, not a great 1-on-1 defender, but his team D was good. Will miss that, but it can be replicated.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

Miami is done. Who is stopping D12 from dunking on them? Erick Dampier :oldlol:

None of the players Orlando brings in needs to be good at defense ... Check out Hedo's defensive rating the last few seasons; a DPOY behind you just makes your life a whole lot easier.

This sets up an epic Boston-Orlando re-match ... and DO NOT THINK THEY CAN'T BEAT YOU ... they can.

J-Rich has never played with a top 5 center before ... and Tony Allen is gone. He's too fast for Ray Ray. Hedo is 6'10; he's to tall for Pierce -- we've already seen this.

It looks like Dallas/LA and Boston/Orlando in the conference finals ... with Chicago, Miami and San Antonio right there too ... the playoffs are going to be amazing this season.

The fouls he takes when Bron and Wade waltz around their "defenders"? You know Wade/Bron will get any foul they want, and if Howard is having to meet them at the rim every other posession, he's going to be in early foul trouble. Before, they could bring a decent replacement in (Gortat), but now he's gone. I would have no problem doubling off current Arenas anyway.

Like Artest, Hedo is not great at dealing with screens, and if we run Pierce off them then he can get any shot he wants. Also, Arenas guarding Rondo/Ray? :oldlol: This Orlando team is no better than 09 (Nelson is a plus, on-fire Rashard Lewis not there though), and as I've already mentioned, KG didn't play that 09 series. You really think Brandon Bass will stop him on offense? Never mind we can negate Howard by throwing 3 players at him, all who play him well (Perk, Shaq, JO).

[BIG FURB]

Vince Carter is not dropping 25 on anybody on a big night. Unless he's taking 25~ shots.

I'm willing to put down money that vince is gonna be close to a 20ppg scorer and have 25+ scoring nights regularly for the suns. Mainly because he's replacing J-Rich as their main offensive weapon and he has Steve nash getting him easy points and not jameer Nelson who can only seem to get points for himself most times. Nash and that Suns training staff are gonna make Vince look good again, not good enough to make the suns relevant mind you (losing amare was too big a blow for that team), but he'll be back to playing good ball.

[Meticode]

Like Aldrige said on NBA TV, I think the Magic are easier to guard now.

I really don't think the Magic got any better with this trade. They pretty much went sideways, if not, maybe even a little backwards. They lost size, a veteran scorer who can still put up 25+ on a big night, and one of the most well rounded roleplayers in the league in Pietrus, who is a total knock down lights out shooter and nice defender. For Turk, who has a big contract, looks like can be on the decline and needs the ball to be effective, and J-Rich. But J-Rich is good.

Besides Howard, they are garbage defensively. Garbage. Gortat and Pietrus were great on defense, and they traded them for the two wing players who were part of the worst defensive team in the league. And who knows what the **** Arenas is going to do.

I'm sorry, I just think a lot of things have to work out for the Magic for them to have a plus on this deal. This team ain't gonna beat the Celtics.
Give me some of what you're smoking you delusional bastard!

[BIG FURB]

Bottom line, if Gilbert can return to his old Hibachi ways the Magic are as dangerous as any team, but that's a big if. They should be better offensively regardless

[Arroyo8]

the magic are better how is anyone argueing this?

jrich>vince
hedo>rashard
arensas>pietrus
gortat>clark

one of the new 3 is coming off the bench so they will replace some of pietrus' scoring

[zORi]

I'm willing to put down money that vince is gonna be close to a 20ppg scorer and have 25+ scoring nights regularly for the suns. Mainly because he's replacing J-Rich as their main offensive weapon and he has Steve nash getting him easy points and not jameer Nelson who can only seem to get points for himself most times. Nash and that Suns training staff are gonna make Vince look good again, not good enough to make the suns relevant mind you (losing amare was too big a blow for that team), but he'll be back to playing good ball.

And I'm willing to put down money that all of that will fadeaway come playoff time.

Health wasn't Vince's issue, heart was. Just you wait, we used to say the same things about him when he was traded to us. He shouldn't need someone to get him open shots, he has the talent to take his man 1-on-1.

"Vince will be rejuvenated playing with a contender!!" "Vince's homecoming!!" "Playing with Dwight will really open things up for him!!"

Phoenix will be letting him go. Count on it.

[zORi]

The fouls he takes when Bron and Wade waltz around their "defenders"? You know Wade/Bron will get any foul they want, and if Howard is having to meet them at the rim every other posession, he's going to be in early foul trouble. Before, they could bring a decent replacement in (Gortat), but now he's gone. I would have no problem doubling off current Arenas anyway.

Like Artest, Hedo is not great at dealing with screens, and if we run Pierce off them then he can get any shot he wants. Also, Arenas guarding Rondo/Ray? :oldlol: This Orlando team is no better than 09 (Nelson is a plus, on-fire Rashard Lewis not there though), and as I've already mentioned, KG didn't play that 09 series. You really think Brandon Bass will stop him on offense? Never mind we can negate Howard by throwing 3 players at him, all who play him well (Perk, Shaq, JO).

Believe it or not, Rashard Lewis held KG to terrible numbers last year, this was all overshadowed by the fact that KG raped him inside and out even worse. Brandon is a better defender than Rashard, and can focus all of his attention on that.

Howard has really worked on his blocks and foul selection. When we last played Miami, he didn't pick up a single foul, and trust me, they were definitely trying to get some on him.

Nelson actually did a great job on Rondo, last year. They're production was almost equal. I'm more intrigued by the Hedo/Pierce matchup.

Dwight dropped 30 on Perk 3 times in that series, and that was before the offseason makeover. I expect it to be hard, but he should be ok.

[DavisEverLOL]

Believe it or not, Rashard Lewis held KG to terrible numbers last year, this was all overshadowed by the fact that KG raped him inside and out even worse. Brandon is a better defender than Rashard, and can focus all of his attention on that.

Definitely not...Bass is one of the worst defenders in the league, and any Maverick fan will tell you so. Bass can't keep up with anyone, without his mid-range game, this guy would be out of the league in a heartbeat.

Lewis was at least good at fronting, Bass offers nothing.

[ATL_Bball_King]

gotta love all you kids whove never played ball in their life, shitting on arenas. Arenas is a big competitor, and im 100% hes going to show up and play great great basketball. Arenas has never been on a good team. J rich shows up in big games and series. Look at the playoffs last year.


Turkoglu, i dont know what to say, but i have a feeling he falls into the arenas mold. Where he plays well with good teams. not bad raptors, or bad suns. Then again he could be a slouch. Imo hes the wildcard.


Couldnt agree with you more...People are really sleeping on Gilbert Arenas...He has been on the WIZARDS!!!!!! How good have they ever been...And ask anyone in the league how happy they would be if someone just gave them Dwight Howard after having Javale Mcghee...I think this will resurrect his career...

JRich will do what carter jus did just more consistently...And yea i think Turk is the wild card because no one knows whats his problem...

As for people talking about Foul trouble on D Howard and that will cause them to epic failure... I mean this is now new stuff...Its people's game plans to get him in foul trouble every game and that is how people always thought in beating the magic... So this is not something new they dealt with...

I still dont think they can beat Boston in the East....But no team can in the east...Who else has possible 6 hall of famers...

But magic does have better offense and slightly worst defense...

[BIG FURB]

And I'm willing to put down money that all of that will fadeaway come playoff time.

Health wasn't Vince's issue, heart was. Just you wait, we used to say the same things about him when he was traded to us. He shouldn't need someone to get him open shots, he has the talent to take his man 1-on-1.

"Vince will be rejuvenated playing with a contender!!" "Vince's homecoming!!" "Playing with Dwight will really open things up for him!!"

Phoenix will be letting him go. Count on it.
Playoffs?!? Who said anything about playoffs? The suns are gonna have to sacrifice virgins to the basketball gods to make the playoffs without amare. I'm just saying you were completely off base in your assessment of Carter. And phoenix will likely let him go, but that's because they're clearly heading in a rebuilding direction, not because Vince sucks like you seem to be implying

[DavisEverLOL]

Playoffs?!? Who said anything about playoffs? The suns are gonna have to sacrifice virgins to the basketball gods to make the playoffs without amare. I'm just saying you were completely off base in your assessment of Carter. And phoenix will likely let him go, but that's because they're clearly heading in a rebuilding direction, not because Vince sucks like you seem to be implying
You're an idiot if you think the Suns made that move so they can rebuild.

[zORi]

Playoffs?!? Who said anything about playoffs? The suns are gonna have to sacrifice virgins to the basketball gods to make the playoffs without amare. I'm just saying you were completely off base in your assessment of Carter. And phoenix will likely let him go, but that's because they're clearly heading in a rebuilding direction, not because Vince sucks like you seem to be implying

I was off base by saying Vince disappears in big games?
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[BIG FURB]

You're an idiot if you think the Suns made that move so they can rebuild.

They got an expirer, 2 quality young role players and a draft pick. Sounds like rebuilding moves to me. It's definitely not a move for a title push. And I don't mean rebuilding this season, or even next, but with most of their best players being up their in age their GM should be fired if he doesn't have a rebuolding plan in the works

[BIG FURB]

I was off base by saying Vince disappears in big games?
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


Vince Carter is not dropping 25 on anybody on a big night. Unless he's taking 25~ shots.


This is what you said, this is what I directly responded to. Keep up son

[zORi]

This is what you said, this is what I directly responded to. Keep up son


Vince Carter is not dropping 25 on anybody on a big night. Unless he's taking 25~ shots.

The bolded part is the key to this statement. I saw Vince drop 49 on the Hornets in a meaningless game last season, I know he's capable of that.

But when it matters, he will let them down. I consider the Playoffs big games.

I'm at the finish line, catch up son.

[DavisEverLOL]

I was off base by saying Vince disappears in big games?
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
I love how you ignored me....prob. cause I was right and you were wrong.

[zORi]

I love how you ignored me....prob. cause I was right and you were wrong.

Or prob. cause I didn't care enough to respond.

Go ahead and believe Rashard is better at defending PF's than Bass is. Have fun. Not even worth arguing.

[BIG FURB]

The bolded part is the key to this statement. I saw Vince drop 49 on the Hornets in a meaningless game last season, I know he's capable of that.

But when it matters, he will let them down. I consider the Playoffs big games.

I'm at the finish line, catch up son.

i'm pretty sure the guy you was responding to was talking about vince having a big night, not playing in a big game, so this may just be a case of one of us misunderstanding what Justin meant. Still, didn't vince have like 6 or so 20+ point games in the playoffs for the Magic last year, including game 1 against the Celtics. So he showed up occasionally for them in 'big games". Of course the Celtics made him disappear the rest of the series, but they made everyone on that team disappear in that series. All that shows is that the Celtics were simply better than the Magic last year

[DavisEverLOL]

Or prob. cause I didn't care enough to respond.

Go ahead and believe Rashard is better at defending PF's than Bass is. Have fun. Not even worth arguing.
I will, mainly because it is correct. Show me a time Bass played good defense..

Take your time, cause you'll need to.

[GiveItToBurrito]

This trade makes Orlando better against 90% of the league, but who are their lockdown perimeter defenders? Reddick and QRich are more solid than good, Kobe, Wade, and Lebron will eat Orlando alive.

[zORi]

I will, mainly because it is correct. Show me a time Bass played good defense..

Take your time, cause you'll need to.

He did a great job (admittedly, along with Lewis) on Aldridge a week ago.

There's a time.

Our team never relied on individual D, anyway (Nelson, Carter, and Lewis were all starters and we won 59 games and were tied with Charlotte for the highest defensive efficiency rating). As long as he stays set on his rotations, he'll be fine.

[zORi]

This trade makes Orlando better against 90% of the league, but who are their lockdown perimeter defenders? Reddick and QRich are more solid than good, Kobe, Wade, and Lebron will eat Orlando alive.

As opposed to other teams? Who don't they eat alive?

[2LeTTeRS]

the magic are better how is anyone argueing this?

jrich>vince
hedo>rashard
arensas>pietrus
gortat>clark

one of the new 3 is coming off the bench so they will replace some of pietrus' scoring

Agreed with this but size is important in this league, especially when your big man can be lured into foul trouble. As of now they have nothing behind Dwight. They need to call around and try to find a dependable backup for Dwight in exchange for some of those backcourt players.

[dallaslonghorn]

The fouls he takes when Bron and Wade waltz around their "defenders"? You know Wade/Bron will get any foul they want, and if Howard is having to meet them at the rim every other posession, he's going to be in early foul trouble.

I'm going to operate under the assumption that the NBA will call the games fairly. If they decide to rig it, obviously none of this matters.


Like Artest, Hedo is not great at dealing with screens, and if we run Pierce off them then he can get any shot he wants. Also, Arenas guarding Rondo/Ray? :oldlol: This Orlando team is no better than 09 (Nelson is a plus, on-fire Rashard Lewis not there though), and as I've already mentioned, KG didn't play that 09 series. You really think Brandon Bass will stop him on offense? Never mind we can negate Howard by throwing 3 players at him, all who play him well (Perk, Shaq, JO).

How is this team not better then the '09 team? Hedo = Hedo. Nelson > Skip Alston. JRich, Arenas > Lee, Pietrus. Anderson isn't all that much worse then Lewis offensively.

The Magic never had a problem guarding Boston, it was scoring. They only had over 100 points once against Boston. The Celtics have good counters for D12, that's why they needed to upgrade their perimeter scoring, Rondo ate up Nelson last year and Vince is pretty much done.

I'm not saying Orlando beats Boston 100%, but I'd put money on it -- for one thing most of the Celtics players are paying for their rehab with Medicare checks.

And to say this team isn't better then the '09 Finals squad? C'mon man now you are just hating.

[dallaslonghorn]

I'm willing to put down money that vince is gonna be close to a 20ppg scorer and have 25+ scoring nights regularly for the suns. Mainly because he's replacing J-Rich as their main offensive weapon and he has Steve nash getting him easy points and not jameer Nelson who can only seem to get points for himself most times. Nash and that Suns training staff are gonna make Vince look good again, not good enough to make the suns relevant mind you (losing amare was too big a blow for that team), but he'll be back to playing good ball.

It's funny that fans of the Celtics and the Heat are all of a sudden big Vince Carter fans :oldlol:

Wow he could put up big numbers for a fast-breaking Suns team that doesn't play D and isn't going anywhere :eek: That's like saying an aging vet could put up 30HR in Coors Field ...

That guy is done as a main piece for a Finals team, last year's ECF pretty much proved that.

[dallaslonghorn]

This trade makes Orlando better against 90% of the league, but who are their lockdown perimeter defenders? Reddick and QRich are more solid than good, Kobe, Wade, and Lebron will eat Orlando alive.

Who cares? They will play tight D and then funnel them into Dwight Howard. None of those guys can score over the top of him.

[BIG FURB]

It's funny that fans of the Celtics and the Heat are all of a sudden big Vince Carter fans :oldlol:

Wow he could put up big numbers for a fast-breaking Suns team that doesn't play D and isn't going anywhere :eek: That's like saying an aging vet could put up 30HR in Coors Field ...

That guy is done as a main piece for a Finals team, last year's ECF pretty much proved that.

Soooo you're agreeing with me then? Hard to tell around here

edit: and if that comment was directed to me, I am in no way, shape or form a fan of the Heat or the Celtics. Can't stand either team (got respect for KG though)

[Arroyo8]

sorry man isn't going to happen:cheers:

[dallaslonghorn]

Soooo you're agreeing with me then? Hard to tell around here

edit: and if that comment was directed to me, I am in no way, shape or form a fan of the Heat or the Celtics. Can't stand either team (got respect for KG though)

Kind of. My point being that if Vince puts up 20+ pts. on a Suns team that will get rolled in the first round ... it really doesn't tell us much about how we would compare in an ECF against Boston or Miami.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

I'm going to operate under the assumption that the NBA will call the games fairly. If they decide to rig it, obviously none of this matters.

How is this team not better then the '09 team? Hedo = Hedo. Nelson > Skip Alston. JRich, Arenas > Lee, Pietrus. Anderson isn't all that much worse then Lewis offensively.

The Magic never had a problem guarding Boston, it was scoring. They only had over 100 points once against Boston. The Celtics have good counters for D12, that's why they needed to upgrade their perimeter scoring, Rondo ate up Nelson last year and Vince is pretty much done.

I'm not saying Orlando beats Boston 100%, but I'd put money on it -- for one thing most of the Celtics players are paying for their rehab with Medicare checks.

And to say this team isn't better then the '09 Finals squad? C'mon man now you are just hating.

Seriously? Arenas has been pretty awful all year (he's on my fantasty team), Pietrus is a far, FAR better defender than anyone you mentioned and 09 Lewis was one of the best players in the playoffs that year, don't even mention Ryan Anderson in the same breath. Hedo is a worse player now, are you saying 07 Pierce = 09 Pierce (same age as Hedo 09-11)? JRich and Nelson I'll give you, but with the other differences (and Gortat's loss, who you forgot) it makes them about as good a team as 2009. And Boston compared to 2009?

KG > Brian Scalabrine
Shaq > Mikki Moore
11 Davis > 09 Davis
11 Rondo > 09 Rondo
Daniels, Robinson and West > Marbury, Bill Walker

But yeah, Magic will win. :rolleyes:

[Micku]

They'll probably Pietrus for perimeter D, but we'll see how they play with each other.

I'm shocked they made so many chances. They probably should've kept a few players.

[dallaslonghorn]

Seriously? Arenas has been pretty awful all year (he's on my fantasty team), Pietrus is a far, FAR better defender than anyone you mentioned and 09 Lewis was one of the best players in the playoffs that year, don't even mention Ryan Anderson in the same breath. Hedo is a worse player now, are you saying 07 Pierce = 09 Pierce (same age as Hedo 09-11)? JRich and Nelson I'll give you, but with the other differences (and Gortat's loss, who you forgot) it makes them about as good a team as 2009. And Boston compared to 2009?

KG > Brian Scalabrine
Shaq > Mikki Moore
11 Davis > 09 Davis
11 Rondo > 09 Rondo
Daniels, Robinson and West > Marbury, Bill Walker

But yeah, Magic will win. :rolleyes:

I don't think Hedo is really a worse player ... not like he ever really depended on his foot-speed :oldlol: ... he was just in a bad situation the last few years (pretty much any situation where he's not backed up a seven-foot shot-blocker :oldlol:)

http://getbuckets.fantake.com/2010/12/18/orlando-magic-the-new-favorites-out-east/

And I don't think it's all THAT important then Pietrus is a better defender ... this is EXACTLY why it's so important to have a shot-blocking defensive center ... b/c he covers up for everyone's defensive flaws, especially a DPOY like Howard, Ben Wallace and TD.

I agree that Boston '11 is a lot better then Boston '09 just like Orlando '11 is a lot better then Orlando '09. That's why I think it's not that relevant to talk about that series.

[Borat]

Definitely not...Bass is one of the worst defenders in the league, and any Maverick fan will tell you so. Bass can't keep up with anyone, without his mid-range game, this guy would be out of the league in a heartbeat.

Lewis was at least good at fronting, Bass offers nothing.

If you had watched the Magic this season you would know that Bass has improved tremendously on the defensive end, thus the increased playing time.
Stan has said this publically.

So you are wrong.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

I don't think Hedo is really a worse player ... not like he ever really depended on his foot-speed :oldlol: ... he was just in a bad situation the last few years (pretty much any situation where he's not backed up a seven-foot shot-blocker :oldlol:)

http://getbuckets.fantake.com/2010/12/18/orlando-magic-the-new-favorites-out-east/

And I don't think it's all THAT important then Pietrus is a better defender ... this is EXACTLY why it's so important to have a shot-blocking defensive center ... b/c he covers up for everyone's defensive flaws, especially a DPOY like Howard, Ben Wallace and TD.

I agree that Boston '11 is a lot better then Boston '09 just like Orlando '11 is a lot better then Orlando '09. That's why I think it's not that relevant to talk about that series.

That article is awful. It says that Ryan Anderson can guard Perkins, Noah and Anthony. Well, yeah, maybe he can. But that means you put Howard on Bosh, Boozer or KG - all 3 are money from 18 feet. I think Boston will end up starting Shaq in the playoffs anyway, and theres no way Anderson can take Shaq.

It also states they have 4 perimeter players who can get 20 every night. Arenas is currently averaging 17ppg on 16 shots, J Rich is averaging 19ppg on 16 shots, Turkoglu is averaging 10 ppg on 8 shots, and Jameer is averaging 15 on 12.

Jameer and Howard already take 25 shots per game between them. Orlando has on average 93 possessions per game. They turn the ball over 15 times a game, leaving 63 shots to be taken. Considering the Magic play with (let's say) a 9 man roster, that leaves 7 shots per game for the rest of the team. Obviously some will take more, some less, but no one else will average more than 10 a game. And no one scores 20 on 10 or fewer shots every night. I also left out the fact that the Magic attempt 25.5 free throws a game, so theres at least 10 more possessions down the drain.

Even if the 09 comparisons are redundant (which imo they aren't), Boston are still better. They're on a 13 game win streak missing their starting PG and C, and a backup C, and another backup C for part of it. They've already beaten Miami twice, who've shown they can deal with Dwight (he had a mediocre 19 and 7 in their first meeting). But whatever - I'm going on facts, and you're going on assumptions. In my opinion, the Magic will go out in the 2nd round.

[dallaslonghorn]

If you had watched the Magic this season you would know that Bass has improved tremendously on the defensive end, thus the increased playing time.
Stan has said this publically.

So you are wrong.

I would worry about him against the Lakers though ... Bass is probably 6'6/6'7 in my opinion ... about DeJuan Blair's height.

How exactly is he supposed to guard dudes w/wingspans of 7'4 (Odom) and 7'5 (Gasol)?

[BlackWhiteGreen]

I would worry about him against the Lakers though ... Bass is probably 6'6/6'7 in my opinion ... about DeJuan Blair's height.

How exactly is he supposed to guard dudes w/wingspans of 7'4 (Odom) and 7'5 (Gasol)?

KG?

[dallaslonghorn]

That article is awful. It says that Ryan Anderson can guard Perkins, Noah and Anthony. Well, yeah, maybe he can. But that means you put Howard on Bosh, Boozer or KG - all 3 are money from 18 feet. I think Boston will end up starting Shaq in the playoffs anyway, and theres no way Anderson can take Shaq.

It also states they have 4 perimeter players who can get 20 every night. Arenas is currently averaging 17ppg on 16 shots, J Rich is averaging 19ppg on 16 shots, Turkoglu is averaging 10 ppg on 8 shots, and Jameer is averaging 15 on 12.

Jameer and Howard already take 25 shots per game between them. Orlando has on average 93 possessions per game. They turn the ball over 15 times a game, leaving 63 shots to be taken. Considering the Magic play with (let's say) a 9 man roster, that leaves 7 shots per game for the rest of the team. Obviously some will take more, some less, but no one else will average more than 10 a game. And no one scores 20 on 10 or fewer shots every night. I also left out the fact that the Magic attempt 25.5 free throws a game, so theres at least 10 more possessions down the drain.

Even if the 09 comparisons are redundant (which imo they aren't), Boston are still better. They're on a 13 game win streak missing their starting PG and C, and a backup C, and another backup C for part of it. They've already beaten Miami twice, who've shown they can deal with Dwight (he had a mediocre 19 and 7 in their first meeting). But whatever - I'm going on facts, and you're going on assumptions. In my opinion, the Magic will go out in the 2nd round.

Obviously they can't ALL get 20 every night ... common sense. But each of one of them is certainly CAPABLE of it any given night depending on how the other team is trying to defend them and whether one of them gets hot from the outside ... thought that was a fairly obvious point but I suppose I should make that more explicit.

Also what the Celtics are doing in the regular season HAS NO RELEVANCE REALLY about how they would match-up with the Orlando. I'm sure Shaq could dunk on the Raptors centers 15x a night ... who cares?

(If you don't know what I mean, ask Cavs fans how much it mattered against Orlando in '09 and Boston in '10 that Cleveland had the highest point differential in the league b/c they would smash lotto-type teams)

Also ... you definitely CANNOT use the transitive property in basketball.

In reality, with the way match-ups work, it's the exact opposite. Example: from '04-'07 the three best teams in the West were the Suns, Mavs and Spurs. Ask fans of any of those teams -- DAL wanted SA not PHX, Suns wanted DAL not SA, Spurs wanted PHX not DAL.

I agree that losing Lewis leaves Orlando with a hole defensively at the power forward .... that's why I thought they should have just stuck with the Phoenix trade ... but I remain unconvinced that KG can really take over a series anymore ... probably main reason why I thought Orlando should be favored but am not ready to write off the Celtics ... it should be an awesome ECF.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

Obviously they can't ALL get 20 every night ... common sense. But each of one of them is certainly CAPABLE of it any given night depending on how the other team is trying to defend them and whether one of them gets hot from the outside ... thought that was a fairly obvious point but I suppose I should make that more explicit.

Also what the Celtics are doing in the regular season HAS NO RELEVANCE REALLY about how they would match-up with the Orlando. I'm sure Shaq could dunk on the Raptors centers 15x a night ... who cares?

(If you don't know what I mean, ask Cavs fans how much it mattered against Orlando in '09 and Boston in '10 that Cleveland had the highest point differential in the league b/c they would smash lotto-type teams)

Also ... you definitely CANNOT use the transitive property in basketball.

In reality, with the way match-ups work, it's the exact opposite. Example: from '04-'07 the three best teams in the West were the Suns, Mavs and Spurs. Ask fans of any of those teams -- DAL wanted SA not PHX, Suns wanted DAL not SA, Spurs wanted PHX not DAL.

I agree that losing Lewis leaves Orlando with a hole defensively at the power forward .... that's why I thought they should have just stuck with the Phoenix trade ... but I remain unconvinced that KG can really take over a series anymore ... probably main reason why I thought Orlando should be favored but am not ready to write off the Celtics ... it should be an awesome ECF.

But they aren't all capable of getting 20 a night, apart from Richardson they have a handful of 20 point nights between them.

OK, please don't compare 09-10 Cavs to the Celtics, that's just a huge insult. Cavs were playing 1 on 5. The Celtics are the best rounded team in the NBA, the absolute opposite.

Now you are using a different situation as an example. The Celtics are the best matched up against the Magic in the league along with the Lakers. They are the only team who can play Howard with single coverage, have an all NBA defender on Nelson, can exploit the Magic's weakness at PF, and can match and exceed their bench play. The Magic are better matched up against the Heat, yeah, but their complete lack of wing defenders will show them up against Wade and James. Bosh will abuse Bass.

[T-bomb 25]

I like this team they have some serious firepower and anyone that thinks garbage ass little man Nelson is gonna start over Arenas is on crack and meth mixed together,so stop saying that stupid ass sh!t.:facepalm

[dallaslonghorn]

OK, please don't compare 09-10 Cavs to the Celtics, that's just a huge insult. Cavs were playing 1 on 5. The Celtics are the best rounded team in the NBA, the absolute opposite.


The general point I am making is that it really doesn't matter how well you do against bad teams once you get deep into the play-offs. At the level of the game where Boston and Orlando are it's all about how you match-up with the 5 or 6 other elite teams in the NBA.




Now you are using a different situation as an example. The Celtics are the best matched up against the Magic in the league along with the Lakers. They are the only team who can play Howard with single coverage, have an all NBA defender on Nelson, can exploit the Magic's weakness at PF, and can match and exceed their bench play. The Magic are better matched up against the Heat, yeah, but their complete lack of wing defenders will show them up against Wade and James. Bosh will abuse Bass.

I agree that Boston has a great match-up with Orlando, one of few teams with size to keep D12 from dominating offensively. That's precisely why the Magic made this trade -- against elite elite teams (like Boston, LA) Dwight can be handled so they need guys on the perimeter to score points. And Turkoglu/Lewis ('09) and Nelson/Carter ('10) wasn't getting it done.

Both years Orlando only had two perimeter shot-creators, neither of whom was an All-NBA type player, so they could be game-planned against. Trades didn't give them that All-NBA player (which is why everyone is kind of down on them) but now they have a MULTITUDE of shot-creators (J.Rich/Nelson/Turk/Arenas) so it's a lot harder to stop them, which was fairly easy for the Celtics to do last year.

And can the Celtics really exploit the Magic's hole at the 4? Yes KG scored on Jamison last year -- but Antawn is an awful awful front-court defender, KG could just shoot over the top of his head, which Anderson, at 6'10 240, can prevent. Not really seeing Boston throwing it into KG in the low post 15-20x a game ...

About the Heat/Magic match-up ... I think I have a fundamental disagreement about that one with most of this board ... if you've got a sufficiently great defensive center like a TD, Ben Wallace or a D12, they make bad perimeter D-->decent, decent-->good and good-->excellent. Not only that but a mis-match at the 5 is pretty much a game-changer regardless of whats going on in the perimeter, b/c it totally DESTROYS your defensive scheme.

See -- the '03 WCF where Tim Duncan pretty much single-handedly beat Dirk, Nash, Van Exel and Finley :facepalm

[gutshot]

Earlier Magic had no chance of competing teams like Heat and Celtics.. Now with these trades, at least they are trying. They had to do something. Now it's SVG's job to make a team out of this players and extract the best possible individual performances. This second part is what he is very good at..

[Apocalyptic0n3]

It all falls on what Arenas does, I think. If Arenas gets his head on straight and returns to the superstar of old that can score 40 at will... the Magic will be damn scary. Making teams choose between guarding a driving Arenas (or J-Rich) or Howard and Bass on the low blocks is going to make things fun for the Magic.

But like I said, it all depends on Arenas and how Nelson adjusts next to him (Nelson has to become a Kidd or Nash type point guard now if he wants to make this work, something he can do imo)

[kurple]

I'm pretty sure Malik Allen is gonna backup Dwight at Center (if he wasn't waived recently that is). Orton's just not ready
Orlando fans better pray to god that Malik won't see any play time. AT ALL

[The_Yearning]

If Orlando wants to win anything, they should implement a Phoenix style of pace and ball. Obviously, they aren't going to win it with defense with just Dwight. What happens when D12 gets into foul trouble? (And he will get into foul trouble)

[zORi]

But they aren't all capable of getting 20 a night, apart from Richardson they have a handful of 20 point nights between them.

OK, please don't compare 09-10 Cavs to the Celtics, that's just a huge insult. Cavs were playing 1 on 5. The Celtics are the best rounded team in the NBA, the absolute opposite.

Now you are using a different situation as an example. The Celtics are the best matched up against the Magic in the league along with the Lakers. They are the only team who can play Howard with single coverage, have an all NBA defender on Nelson, can exploit the Magic's weakness at PF, and can match and exceed their bench play. The Magic are better matched up against the Heat, yeah, but their complete lack of wing defenders will show them up against Wade and James. Bosh will abuse Bass.

Arenas, Howard, J-Rich, Nelson are all capable of scoring 20 or more on any given night.

Just like the Lakers (Gasol, Bryant, Odom, Artest) or C's (Rondo, Allen, Garnett, Pierce) and Miami (James, Wade, Bosh, Miller........?)

[macpierce]

But they aren't all capable of getting 20 a night, apart from Richardson they have a handful of 20 point nights between them.

OK, please don't compare 09-10 Cavs to the Celtics, that's just a huge insult. Cavs were playing 1 on 5. The Celtics are the best rounded team in the NBA, the absolute opposite.

Now you are using a different situation as an example. The Celtics are the best matched up against the Magic in the league along with the Lakers. They are the only team who can play Howard with single coverage, have an all NBA defender on Nelson, can exploit the Magic's weakness at PF, and can match and exceed their bench play. The Magic are better matched up against the Heat, yeah, but their complete lack of wing defenders will show them up against Wade and James. Bosh will abuse Bass.
no man.........just no..............they can score pretty easily :hammerhead:

[dallaslonghorn]

Orlando fans better pray to god that Malik won't see any play time. AT ALL

Agreed ... I'd rather see Orton/Clark/Anderson/Bass buying minutes at the 5 then Malik Allen.

Are there any bigs who could get bought out in early 2011? Like a PJ Brown in '08 for Boston?

[zORi]

Agreed ... I'd rather see Orton/Clark/Anderson/Bass buying minutes at the 5 then Malik Allen.

Are there any bigs who could get bought out in early 2011? Like a PJ Brown in '08 for Boston?

Orton's not ready yet, he's still having some health issues.

Anderson can't play C (not strong enough), and from what Suns fans have told me, neither can Clark. I do have good news regarding this, though:

From the Head Magician himself (Otis):

"We'll still find ways to get better in some spots," Smith said. "Losing the backup center is big. So, you need a little size for about probably five teams. That's really what it comes down to, so we'll probably address that over the next month or so."

Taken from O-Sen.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

Arenas, Howard, J-Rich, Nelson are all capable of scoring 20 or more on any given night.

Just like the Lakers (Gasol, Bryant, Odom, Artest) or C's (Rondo, Allen, Garnett, Pierce) and Miami (James, Wade, Bosh, Miller........?)

Is this the same Arenas who can't score 20 a night on 15 shots? Come on, he'll get about 10 shots a night if the Magic know what's good for them.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

no man.........just no..............they can score pretty easily :hammerhead:

I've backed my argument up with stats, you're using an emoticon, but yeah, you're probably right.

[ronniec]

Good enough to beat the Heat, but not good for Celtics, Lakers and Spurs yet.

[Kingwillball]

Good enough to beat the Heat, but not good for Celtics, Lakers and Spurs yet.


the spurs are not better than the Heat wake up..

[BallsOut]

the spurs are not better than the Heat wake up..

If you say it enough it might become true. Last time Lebron faced the Spurs in the playoffs he got shut down and embarrassed. :oldlol:

[BallsOut]

Jeff Foster of the Pacers and Ryan Hollins of the Cavs may be available if they're looking for a legit backup C

[dallaslonghorn]

Jeff Foster of the Pacers and Ryan Hollins of the Cavs may be available if they're looking for a legit backup C

Both of those players would be great fits in Orlando ... though I thought Foster messed up his back or something.

[zORi]

Is this the same Arenas who can't score 20 a night on 15 shots? Come on, he'll get about 10 shots a night if the Magic know what's good for them.

Playing off the ball.

I could say the same thing about Ray Allen not being able to get 20 points if someone isn't setting him up for a bunch of 3's. Or KG only being able to score when he's set up (he's assisted on 88% of his buckets).

The point is, he is capable of doing so. As are they.

[Harion]

If you say it enough it might become true. Last time Lebron faced the Spurs in the playoffs he got shut down and embarrassed. :oldlol:
are you ****ing kidding me? is this guy serious? can someone post the rosters of Spurs and Cavs in that series so this moron can shut up?

[Da KO King]

I don't see how this will work. Defensively, all these guys give up the dribble drive way too easily.

Offensively, Turkoglu is only a matchup problem when paired with another 69'" forward who can handle and shoot the ball. Outside of that your looking at a not as impressive Keith Van Horn. Jason Richardson does nothing but stand around waiting to shoot threes. Gilbert Arenas has not complained about his new role but he struggled to be effective without the ball all year.

I think this will end up blowing up in their face.

[ronnymac]

Richardson was feeding off Nash and will be exposed in Orlando. Turk is so washed up it's sad and losing Gortat will expose the Magic if Dwight gets into early foul trouble.Arenas is one who could go off if he stays healthy, but thats a big if at the moment.

[All Net]

Tough start for Arenas.

[MMM]

I really don't like their depth especially in the front court but they have upgraded their talent level. SVG has a lot of work to do to get guys in the proper roles going forward. Arenas/Nelson/J rich will get the bulk of the guard mins so it will be interesting to see how Redick/Duhon and Q adjust to lesser roles. I got to think that Ottis has more up his sleeve though. I would probably look to trade Nelson for a SF/Back up Big to balance the roster while moving
Hedo to the bench

Arenas/Duhon
J-Rich/JJ/Q
NEW SF maybe someone along the lines of a Wallace/Hedo
Bass/Anderson/Clark
Howard/Nasty Naz or Kwame????

[tontoz]

i have watched a lot of Wizards games this year and Arenas has been pretty bad. He makes a lot of horrible passes , turning it over and leading to easy fast breaks for the other team. His shot has been off but he keeps chucking and of course plays no D.

the Wizards would have beaten the Heat in their first game without him if they didn't choke and just had their first blowout win of the season last night.

[gutshot]

Magic need a big man asap. If you ask me trade Nelson or Redick for Varejao.

[SCdac]

I think the worst that can happen is the team goes from a jump-shooting team with decent role players, to a jump-shooting team with high end role-players.

11 of the Magic' 17 three's attempted last night... came from Arenas, J-Rich, and Turk. Regardless of the makes (that will fluctuate, improve, even out, etc), the guys Orlando traded for are all shooters.

Arenas turns 30 in January and at this stage probably doesn't want to get too dirty in the paint, get to the FT line persistently, slash more than shoot, etc. (Not to mention his contract takes up like 30% of the salary which sucks in itself). Jason Richardson has the best chance to be the penetrating swing man the Magic could use, but for a great dunker alot of his game is based on his long range shooting (80% of his scoring is from jump shots). If you keep him off the three-point line, I think it helps beat his team, yet you know he's going to be gunning alot on that team. Turk just strikes me as a lazy player in general, the kind of guy who'll get his check and then stop giving it his all. Remember how quickly he put himself up for bid after his solid playoff run with ORL? It's all about the personal glory for him IMO. Losing Gortat hurts too. With Howard they rank like mid-20's in shot blocking, and outside of Howard they block a mere 2.1 shots per game. Is this team planning on playing small much of the time (like we've seen before)?

[dallaslonghorn]

I don't see how this will work. Defensively, all these guys give up the dribble drive way too easily.

Offensively, Turkoglu is only a matchup problem when paired with another 69'" forward who can handle and shoot the ball. Outside of that your looking at a not as impressive Keith Van Horn. Jason Richardson does nothing but stand around waiting to shoot threes. Gilbert Arenas has not complained about his new role but he struggled to be effective without the ball all year.

I think this will end up blowing up in their face.

You are that down on Jason Richardson? I thought he was the key to this deal. He's a good good player; I've certainly seen him take and create pretty efficient shots driving to the basket over the years. Can't say I watched too many Suns games this year, but I was at the Mavs/Suns the other day, and J. Rich looked like he hadn't lost that much athleticism ... and he still has a really good handle.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Having Jrich and Turkoglu in your team is gonna help, but Arenas? Man hes a cancer...

[ronnymac]

Richardson was made in steve nash. He is being exposed now. He was getting ton of open looks because nash was getting him the ball in all the right places.