So are people taking the Mavs seriously as top title contender yet?

[All Net]

Lets face it they are playing great, 24-5 record, beaten Miami twice, Spurs, great record against 500 above teams

Chandler inside has made a real difference inside for them.

You believe they have a great shot to be champs come end of the season? or still not sure?

[Hawker]

No. Because we always blow it in the playoffs.

[Rose]

No. Because we always blow it in the playoffs.
That's why I'm not sure if they are for real yet.

[Bigsmoke]

Lets face it they are playing great, 24-5 record, beaten Miami twice, Spurs, great record against 500 above teams

Chandler inside has made a real difference inside for them.

You believe they have a great shot to be champs come end of the season? or still not sure?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDwBEnOOJ7Y

[Vince McMahon]

nope, other than dirk the whole team will choke in the playoffs.

[ihatetimthomas]

Chandler really adds a new dimension to this team that they have not seen before. Chandler plays very well with playmaking point guards, and he is a very active defender. He compliments Dirk well, and their guys are gelling. Remember, Butler was only their for less than 30 games last year, and now he is getting accustomed to Dirk and the other teammates.

They are pretty deep. They can play fast or slow. And they have solid balance. Dirk is playing extremely well. All signs say they are contenders and not pretenders but we will see in the playoffs.

[stephanieg]

If they're up 20 in the 4th quarter of game 7 in the finals I still won't be taking them seriously until I see the champagne shower. It would be funny if they made it to the finals and beat Miami though.

[Indian guy]

It's hard to trust their offense outside of Dirk. Terry? Marion? Butler? None of those guys are reliable against a Top level D. LA would suffocate them in a playoff series.

[ashbelly]

Chandler guarding the opposing teams best front Court scorer is the biggest difference. I was surprised that he was guarding bosh. I had hoped for Dirk to be guarding him since he's not a good defender.

[sipitri]

They for sure have a shot at the championship but it's better to wait for playoff time because we know that the playoffs are a different story.

[eppelp]

I don't know what to believe.
On one side they had great RS and blew it in the playoffs many times. Also they blow 10-20 point leads all the time. Usually they still make it, but that could be a problem come playoff time. Also Rick Carlisle has yet to prove his coaching can make the difference (in favor of the Mavs) in the playoff.
On the other side they just won b2b in Miami and Orlando with Dirk having bad games. They have improved their defence (to the point it wins games) and Chandler seems to be a great fit. Also Roddy can add scoring if one of the scorers (Terry, Butler etc) doesn't show up.

So it's hard to say but currently I lean more toward No. Especially Carlisle is giving me headaches.

[west]

They are the Orlando Magic of the West, barring injuries of the other contenders, they are not gonna make it to the Finals.

[ReturnofJPR]

I am. I think a Post-Gold Medal World Champion version of Tyson Chandler could be the difference. Dallas has the bigs to go against both the Lakers and the Celtics. Dirk is as good as I've seen him and they just look really good. Of course, the season is not even half over. There could be injuries (Like how the Bulls are really banged up but they keep winning) so we will see how things shake out during the 2nd half of the season.

[InfiniteBaskets]

If they're up 20 in the 4th quarter of game 7 in the finals I still won't be taking them seriously until I see the champagne shower. It would be funny if they made it to the finals and beat Miami though.

Wouldn't it be funnier if they were up 2-0 on Miami in the finals and then lost?

[thomaspynchon]

Chandler guarding the opposing teams best front Court scorer is the biggest difference. I was surprised that he was guarding bosh. I had hoped for Dirk to be guarding him since he's not a good defender.

Except Dirk is a good defender and guarded Bosh most in the 4th

[thomaspynchon]

I can see why a lot of folks would be skeptical given the Mavs' lack of playoffs success recently. But if you really follow the team, you'd see how huge of a difference an active, above-teh-rim center in Chandler can be versus a stiff like Dampier. It allows everyone else to gamble and be more aggressive on defense. And the only guy on the team who gets to the rim at will is still yet to play. Not only that, the Mavs point differential is much stronger than it's ever been and guys are playing fewer minutes. Last season they limped into the playoffs and it showed against a fully rested and healthy Spurs team. I'd be shocked if this team does anything less than the WCF this season.

[TrueRob]

Lets face it they are playing great, 24-5 record, beaten Miami twice, Spurs, great record against 500 above teams

Chandler inside has made a real difference inside for them.

You believe they have a great shot to be champs come end of the season? or still not sure?

WC Champ barring injury.

[Faberg]

No, we've seen this intro of this movie before. Time will tell if the ending is the same result. (Choking in the playoffs)

[thejumpa]

Except Dirk is a good defender and guarded Bosh most in the 4th

I wouldn't necessarily say "good", but he's not as bad as a lot of people make him out to be. Still soft as tissue though...

Anyway, to answer the OPs question, no. I don't consider them contenders YET. They are playing like contenders, but IMO after the AS break is when I like to make predictions on who will do what. Until then, they are a great basketball team that has improved since last year. They are definitely the #1 team in the league right now and have a lot of impressive wins on their resume. I want to see them crush teams though. Dominate the good teams. Even against Miami, they didn't dominate. It was a close game that they should have lost. If it hadn't had been for my boy JTerry, this thread probably wouldn't have been made. Like they said on 1st and Take, if Terry is your closer, then you are not a title contender. Period.

[thomaspynchon]

No, we've seen this intro of this movie before. Time will tell if the ending is the same result. (Choking in the playoffs)

It's very different this season. Their record is commanding against all the top teams, most of whom they have already beat on the road. if you looked at their stats last season, they were

2-2 vs LAL
2-2 vs OKC
3-1 vs SAS
2-1 vs DEN
2-1 vs PHX
1-3 vs PORT
1-2 vs UTA

Which is decent but what it really means is they sort of took care of business AND they had a record for most wins by 1 point during a season which means they weren't really winning convincingly. This season it's quite different.

[thomaspynchon]

I wouldn't necessarily say "good", but he's not as bad as a lot of people make him out to be. Still soft as tissue though...

Anyway, to answer the OPs question, no. I don't consider them contenders YET. They are playing like contenders, but IMO after the AS break is when I like to make predictions on who will do what. Until then, they are a great basketball team that has improved since last year. They are definitely the #1 team in the league right now and have a lot of impressive wins on their resume. I want to see them crush teams though. Dominate the good teams. Even against Miami, they didn't dominate. It was a close game that they should have lost. If it hadn't had been for my boy JTerry, this thread probably wouldn't have been made. Like they said on 1st and Take, if Terry is your closer, then you are not a title contender. Period.

Dirk is the closer, always has been, always will be...it was another distorted and misanalyzed comment taken by the (racist against white) media to take Dirk down. Also, their schedule after the ASG is VERY soft.

[BarberSchool]

I want to see them against the Lakers and Spurs again.
I'm leaning strongly towards yes.
...the addition of Chandler, and much better defensive effort and positioning from their scorers (Terry, Butler, Nowitzki) has made them a top 5 defensive team in the NBA. It's hard to accept for most people, but they are an elite defensive team right now, meaning they don't need to rely on consistent jumpshooting to win games late.

For instance, this recent back to back away game wins vs Miami and Orlando Dirk had 2 of his worst 3 games this year, and they still own with defense. And if anyone remembers, the first time they beat Miami this year, Dirk stole the ball from Dwyane Wade TWICE in the last 2 minutes, in addition to a tipped ball that started a successful break. He defensively won that first game in Miami for his team. Their defense won them games against the Spurs, OKC, Utah, and ORL & Miami. THE MAVS ARE A DEFENSIVE POWERHOUSE. Sounds strange right?

This is the best and most complete Mavericks team we've ever seen, and it puts them very close to the Lakers, Spurs, and Boston, if not neck and neck with all of them....and at worst they are a noticable step above Orlando, Utah, & Miami, and two steps above OKC, CHI, ATL, DEN, NOLA, etc.

Can't wait for the OKC & Spurs games next week. Both should be great games.

[ReturnofJPR]

Two steps over Chicago...I don't know Chicago took care of them in Dallas. One step, sure but not two. Not with a healthy Noah.

[thejumpa]

Dirk is the closer, always has been, always will be...it was another distorted and misanalyzed comment taken by the (racist against white) media to take Dirk down. Also, their schedule after the ASG is VERY soft.

Racist against what? Get out of here with that. Dirk clearly said "He's our finisher. He's our closer." What got misanalyzed?

The point is, it's great to have multiple offensive weapons down the stretch, but the best player should be the closer 99% of the time.

[eppelp]

Racist against what? Get out of here with that. Dirk clearly said "He's our finisher. He's our closer." What got misanalyzed?


Didn't he say "he was our closer today"? Or was that crappy german translation?

[thomaspynchon]

Racist against what? Get out of here with that. Dirk clearly said "He's our finisher. He's our closer." What got misanalyzed?

The point is, it's great to have multiple offensive weapons down the stretch, but the best player should be the closer 99% of the time.

If you watch the Mavs you'd know that Dirk is their closer, 99 times out of 100. If terry gets the last shot it's because Dirk is being doubled off the pick and roll and trusts terry to hit the shit in a game in which he's hot. Terry's not going to have the ball in his hands and creating his own shot to win.

Racist in that it's obvious that Dirk was trying to instill trust with the comment and the media spun it, predictably, to mean that he doesn't want the ball in his hands and that Terry is their closer, which anyone who follows the Mavs can tell you is false. Media is racist against whites because it does anything it can to put down great white players while constantly elevating blacks. You'd think Kobe is the clutchest ever and Dirk is the worst ever in the clutch, when it's really the opposite.

[thejumpa]

Didn't he say "he was our closer today"? Or was that crappy german translation?


"He's our finisher," Nowitzki said. "He's our closer. He got hot."

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nba/2013726645_nba21.html?syndication=rss

That's the same quote I'm seeing on multiple sites.

[GOBB]

:oldlol: Media racist against whites. Funniest yet dumbest comment I've read. Wow.

[thomaspynchon]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nba/2013726645_nba21.html?syndication=rss

That's the same quote I'm seeing on multiple sites.

I suppose you don't see what Dirk is trying to say here...maybe he should have said, "he had a good game tonight so I passed him the ball, but when the playoffs roll around he's nowhere to be found"

[thomaspynchon]

:oldlol: Media racist against whites. Funniest yet dumbest comment I've read. Wow.

Hey whatever man, entitled to my opinion as well. A lot of people see through it but many don't.

[TrueRob]

During the Miami game, I did see Dirk defer to Terry late in the 4th quarter. I remember it because I thought it was funny how Terry tried to give the ball up to Dirk and then he immediately passed it back to Terry. I guess Dirk wasn't comfortable trying to score in iso because he was having an off night.

[thejumpa]

If you watch the Mavs you'd know that Dirk is their closer, 99 times out of 100. If terry gets the last shot it's because Dirk is being doubled off the pick and roll and trusts terry to hit the shit in a game in which he's hot. Terry's not going to have the ball in his hands and creating his own shot to win.

Racist in that it's obvious that Dirk was trying to instill trust with the comment and the media spun it, predictably, to mean that he doesn't want the ball in his hands and that Terry is their closer, which anyone who follows the Mavs can tell you is false. Media is racist against whites because it does anything it can to put down great white players while constantly elevating blacks. You'd think Kobe is the clutchest ever and Dirk is the worst ever in the clutch, when it's really the opposite.

:oldlol:

I understand what you are saying about the comment Dirk made but let's get one thing clear...Dirk is a legend. Everyone knows this. He's a great player. There isn't one thing that the media can do or say to bring him down. Kobe has hit bigger shots and has more memorable moments than Dirk has. That's why people think he's "more clutch" than Dirk is. What you are talking about is stats. No disrespect, but if you are using stats as a way to say someone is more clutch or whatever, then you are buggin. I'm not trying to start a black vs white argument in this thread but I'm just sayin....

[ReturnofJPR]

:oldlol: Media racist against whites. Funniest yet dumbest comment I've read. Wow.

The media isn't controlled by white people Gobb. If anything, Blacks have it good in today's media. Certainly better than whites. Poor Dirk. :cry:

[thomaspynchon]

:oldlol:

I understand what you are saying about the comment Dirk made but let's get one thing clear...Dirk is a legend. Everyone knows this. He's a great player. There isn't one thing that the media can do or say to bring him down. Kobe has hit bigger shots and has more memorable moments than Dirk has. That's why people think he's "more clutch" than Dirk is. What you are talking about is stats. No disrespect, but if you are using stats as a way to say someone is more clutch or whatever, then you are buggin. I'm not trying to start a black vs white argument in this thread but I'm just sayin....

I watch nearly every Mavs game...look back on the 4th quarter on youtube or something...all of Terry's buckets came off the pick and roll, including the final big one, because the big man always stays with Dirk, leaving Terry wide open...that's why Dirk is encouraging Terry as the "closer." But if you watch them regularly you'd know that Dirk is the guy taking and hitting the big shots in isolation almost all the time.

Kobe is great too but people who follow the NBA know that he fails more often than he succeeds when it counts and his success is due in very large part to his extremely strong supporting cast. before Gasol and post Shaq he did absolutely zero in the playoffs.

[thomaspynchon]

The media isn't controlled by white people Gobb. If anything, Blacks have it good in today's media. Certainly better than whites. Poor Dirk. :cry:

It's controlled by liberals.

[TrueRob]

Last season, the Mavs had some games where they got absolutely demolished. That hasn't happened so far this season. I want to see if they can get through this season without letting some team drop 130 points on them.

[All Net]

It's hard to trust their offense outside of Dirk. Terry? Marion? Butler? None of those guys are reliable against a Top level D. LA would suffocate them in a playoff series.

Actually I think they have a well balenced offense...more than enough. Whatthey lacked was defense and a guy who could clog the paint..they may have that now.

[thejumpa]

I watch nearly every Mavs game...look back on the 4th quarter on youtube or something...all of Terry's buckets came off the pick and roll, including the final big one, because the big man always stays with Dirk, leaving Terry wide open...that's why Dirk is encouraging Terry as the "closer." But if you watch them regularly you'd know that Dirk is the guy taking and hitting the big shots in isolation almost all the time.

Kobe is great too but people who follow the NBA know that he fails more often than he succeeds when it counts and his success is due in very large part to his extremely strong supporting cast. before Gasol and post Shaq he did absolutely zero in the playoffs.

Sounds like you are the one trying to spin it. I'm not trying to use the game as evidence for anything. I'm just going off what Dirk said. He didn't say "closer today" or "he got hot so we kept feeding him the ball". No...he said "He's our finisher. He's our closer". That can only imply one thing.

Kobes success as a clutch shooter has nothing to do with his teammates. He's made big shots. Tough shots. Memorable shots. More than Dirk has. Regular season or playoffs. So what if he had better teammates or had Shaq or Pau...that's part of the game of basketball. Maybe if Mark Cuban would stop cheerleading and actually try to snag a legitimate big man or two, Dirk would have similar success.

[TrueRob]

It's hard to trust their offense outside of Dirk. Terry? Marion? Butler? None of those guys are reliable against a Top level D. LA would suffocate them in a playoff series.

Mavs' offense did pretty well against the best D in the league (Boston). The Lakers haven't been too good on defense this season.

[BarberSchool]

It's controlled by liberals.Is "liberal", the latest code word used by Conservatives, especially on talk radio and Fox News, to mean "Jewish" ?

[thomaspynchon]

Is "liberal", the latest code word used by Conservatives, especially on talk radio and Fox News, to mean "Jewish" ?

It means self loathing white people who want to put down any successful white man and prop up any black guy they can find

[GOBB]

It means self loathing white people who want to put down any successful white man and prop up any black guy they can find

:facepalm

[ReturnofJPR]

It means self loathing white people who want to put down any successful white man and prop up any black guy they can find

Those are called spineless liberals and they are running rampant these days. Luckily, there are 10's of millions not like that. Thank God!

[Ken_Masters]

I think they have a real shot. I've been watching Dallas closely for a few years now, but this is the only year where i think they have a real chance. It's because of their defense. Plus the fact that they have two 7 footers in Chandler & Haywood to throw at other teams. They have size, they can score, and they can defend. They pretty much have everything you would need for a ship.

[MMM]

I don't buy into this notion that the Mavs always flop in the playoffs or choke. Other than 07 I don't recall the Mavs choking in the playoffs and you can make an argument that losing to GSW wasn't a choke if you looked at all the factors that played into that series. Truth be told they just haven't been that talented a roster over the last few years to have had the success that some people expected from them.

[SoCalMike]

Lets face it they are playing great, 24-5 record, beaten Miami twice, Spurs, great record against 500 above teams

Chandler inside has made a real difference inside for them.

You believe they have a great shot to be champs come end of the season? or still not sure?

no, they are a regular season team... they don't have the right mix and coaching to take them to the finals and win.


:pimp:

[bettalaylow]

IMO

Whoever gets that number 1 seed is going on to the Finals and if the Mavs can manage that they'll be in great shape. Unlike years past in this year's WC I think Spurs, Mavs, and Lakers (possibly Utah) or head and shoulders above the rest of the competition. So I don't see upsets like in year's past happening in the first round for the top teams.

Now the number one seed assuming it's either Spurs, Mavs, or Lakers will only have to beat the winner of the 2-3 series in order to move on to the conference finals. Which is a far easier road than having to beat a combination of Mavs/Spurs, Mavs/Lakers or Spurs/Lakers.

With all that being said I think this is best Mavs team in the Dirk era.

[Funnyfuka]

nope, other than dirk the whole team will choke in the playoffs.

/end of thread.

Lakers vs celtics all over again.

[Kurosawa0]

I'd love to see the Spurs and Mavs be real challengers to the Lakers, but I still don't buy it. I could see either match up going seven games, but I can't see them actually winning.

[Nash]

We took them seriously in 2007 and look where that got us. Lets just wait and see.

[Mr Know It All]

They need to get the #1 seed in order to have the Spurs and Lakers beat up on each other. If not it will take alot of luck and Dirk playing out of his mind for them to make it to the Finals. They finally have the balance and talent to win it, and Beaubois, who is a wild card when he returns, could make them even better.

In other words, whoever gets the #1 seed will go to the Finals in the West IMO. And Dallas has a good a chance as anyone, making them a clear contender.

[R4E]

The Mavs might be more intriguing as a ring threat with a lock down defensive specialist that could cover the opposition's main scoring threat - like a Bowen, Artest, Pippen etc.

Another knock on Dirk N is that he is just not tough enough to secure a nba world championship ring. Garnett, for example, would throw DN halfway across the court just to intimidate him with a ring on the line.

And then you'd have Cuban post-game up in the player's family area of the arena calling the opposition's peeps a "bunch of thugs"! We remember the playoff intensity of the Nuggets/Mavericks series, dont we? Cuban did not handle it too well...

[bettalaylow]

I'd love to see the Spurs and Mavs be real challengers to the Lakers, but I still don't buy it. I could see either match up going seven games, but I can't see them actually winning.

If the Lakers have to go through the Mavs and Spurs they aren't coming out of the West.

[bettalaylow]

They need to get the #1 seed in order to have the Spurs and Lakers beat up on each other. If not it will take alot of luck and Dirk playing out of his mind for them to make it to the Finals. They finally have the balance and talent to win it, and Beaubois, who is a wild card when he returns, could make them even better.

In other words, whoever gets the #1 seed will go to the Finals in the West IMO. And Dallas has a good a chance as anyone, making them a clear contender.

Yea I made a similar point I think that 1 seed is the key to the Finals.

[RandyOrton]

I thought they could have won it last year. Unfortunately they ran into a tough 1st round team in the Spurs.

[Kurosawa0]

If the Lakers have to go through the Mavs and Spurs they aren't coming out of the West.

I just don't see it with Duncan being old and the Mavs not having a big wing player.

[Johnni Gade]

Chokers...

[kentatm]

Didn't he say "he was our closer today"? Or was that crappy german translation?


Dirk rarely takes credit for anything. He is constantly giving his teammates props.

Its very typical of him to give that kind of credit to a guy like Terry who, much like Manu, could have been a starter all these years but went to the bench to help the team.

In the 4th the Mavs offense is usually Terry and Dirk running a two man game but Dirk is ALWAYS option #1 and most definitely the Mavs true closer. He simply does not care who gets the love. All he wants is a win.

[kentatm]

Another knock on Dirk N is that he is just not tough enough to secure a nba world championship ring. Garnett, for example, would throw DN halfway across the court just to intimidate him with a ring on the line.


there is not a single player in the NBA that Dirk is intimidated by. This is especially true of KG who Dirk has consistently beasted on for the last 10 years. I have seen KG get so pissed from Dirk laughing off KG's barking (as in literally laughing in KGs face) that he got booted from a game.

You piss off Dirk, he is likely to go nuts on you.

[Mr Know It All]

there is not a single player in the NBA that Dirk is intimidated by. This is especially true of KG who Dirk has consistently beasted on for the last 10 years. I have seen KG get so pissed from Dirk laughing off KG's barking (as in literally laughing in KGs face) that he got booted from a game.

You piss off Dirk, he is likely to go nuts on you.

Ya I don't understand how people can knock on Dirk as not being a viable #1 option and point to KG as a guy who got it done. Fact is he never did without two HOFers on his team, and KG never had the pressure of having to make the big shots Dirk did in that Boston championship run.

Dirk has consistently outperformed KG in their battles. Hell even in 2002 when Dirk supposedly had "no defense" and was "softer than ever" he beasted on KG and averaged somewhere around 30/15 in the series.

Dirk is a true #1 option. Hell, he's one of 5 players EVER to average 25 and 10 in the playoffs. Anyone questioning his status as a superstar is either misinformed, a moron, or simply dislikes Dirk as a player for their own reasons.

[dutchguy]

Hell, he's one of 5 players EVER to average 25 and 10 in the playoffs.
??
I don't believe that. Who are the other 4?

[R4E]

there is not a single player in the NBA that Dirk is intimidated by. This is especially true of KG who Dirk has consistently beasted on for the last 10 years. I have seen KG get so pissed from Dirk laughing off KG's barking (as in literally laughing in KGs face) that he got booted from a game.

You piss off Dirk, he is likely to go nuts on you.

I will admit it. Dirk is soft to me. I've seen him fold too many times. He doesnt play with enough anger and determination in the playoffs. Now...I admire Dirk's regular season skill...without question. The NBA playoffs are a different animal. NBA playoffs are more about wills than skills. It is all adversity and adjustments. A 7 game series, as we know, is very different than a 1 game showdown.

If Dirk in able to get to the Finals again...there is going to be a Wade capable of taking over 4 games to win the NBA title on the other side. I am going to be shocked if Dirk can get it done. Dirk is going to have to have a whole personality transplant imo. I just cant see it. In that sense I am a Dirk N detractor. Time will tell...

[kentatm]

I will admit it. Dirk is soft to me. I've seen him fold too many times. He doesnt play with enough anger and determination in the playoffs. Now...I admire Dirk's regular season skill...without question. The NBA playoffs are a different animal. NBA playoffs are more about wills than skills. It is all adversity and adjustments. A 7 game series, as we know, is very different than a 1 game showdown.

If Dirk in able to get to the Finals again...there is going to be a Wade capable of taking over 4 games to win the NBA title on the other side. I am going to be shocked if Dirk can get it done. Dirk is going to have to have a whole personality transplant imo. I just cant see it. In that sense I am a Dirk N detractor. Time will tell...

:facepalm

right. one of the few players all time to average 25/10 in the playoffs does not play with enough determination.

[bettalaylow]

I just don't see it with Duncan being old and the Mavs not having a big wing player.

What an insightful comment considering Duncan isn't even the goto guy anymore on the Spurs and what the hell do you mean by big wing player really that's what the Mavs need to win the West smh. Go back to basketball school.

[weavaliciousnes]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGDNbQY_li8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OmE3B-s8ow&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OOAjORA15w

i could go on

[kentatm]

??
I don't believe that. Who are the other 4?


Elgin Baylor, Hakeem Olajuwon, Bob Pettit and Shaquille O'Neal.





Dirk in the playoffs

09-10: 27/8/3 PER: 28
08-09: 27/10/3 PER: 28
07-09: 27/12/4 PER: 26
06-07: 20/11/2 PER: 21
05-06: 27/12/3 PER: 27
04-05: 24/10/3 PER: 20
03-04: 27/12/1 PER: 28
02-03: 25/12/2 PER: 23
01-02: 28/13/2 PER: 25
00-01: 23/8/2 PER: 22

[R4E]

:facepalm

right. one of the few players all time to average 25/10 in the playoffs does not play with enough determination.

There is a big difference between a league statistical wonder and a NBA world championship sacred moments baller.

Even the other night when the Mavs closed out the Heat in Miami - it was Terry and Marion closing the Heat out...Dirk was a witness, if that - and the best closers get much respect - it is a very difficult thing to do.

[bettalaylow]

It's funny how short people's memories are. Kobe wasn't getting it done until he was teamed up with Shaq and now Gasol, Gasol wasn't getting it done in Memphis, KG and Ray Allen weren't getting it done in Minny/Seattle.

Sure Dirk played with Steve Nash but on a team that put absolutely no emphasis on defense or really rebounding for the matter. Who was Dirk's most recent side-kick oh that's right the great Josh Howard.

[creepingdeath]

There is a big difference between a league statistical wonder and a NBA world championship sacred moments baller.
You should watch some of the posted videos.

[bettalaylow]

There is a big difference between a league statistical wonder and a NBA world championship sacred moments baller.

Even the other night when the Mavs closed out the Heat in Miami - it was Terry and Marion closing the Heat out...Dirk was a witness, if that - and the best closers get much respect - it is a very difficult thing to do.

So what are you trying to argue here? That it's Terry and Marion taking over games for the Mavs you don't have to become a complete fool in an attempt to discredit Dirk and the Mavs. Dirk has been the leader of this franchise when the game is on the line Dirk isn't the one with the problem it's his supporting cast that stinks up the joint. Last year's playoffs Terry and Butler never got settled offensively so many nights it was Dirk putting up the big numbers and minimal contribution from the rest of the squad.

This year with more time to mesh, the addition of Chandler, and hopefully the recovery and development of Roddy Dallas will have a more balanced offensive attack.

[moaz]

Why do we have to ask this question again?
Morons would mention GSW
Bigger morons : Miami
The biggest morons: Mavs chock always in the playoffs.

U can write 10000 posts about Chandler/their defense this year, the morons would only see Mavs/Dirk and automatically write the same answer.

Lets w8t and see. And maybe they'll make a good trade in the winter.


BTW i don't believe they would win it all. Imo they need another piece.

[50inchvertical]

Have to see it to believe it. If there is an opportunity to choke/flame out in embarrassing fashion, I expect the Mavs to take it more often than not.

[bettalaylow]

Why do we have to ask this question again?
Morons would mention GSW
Bigger morons : Miami
The biggest morons: Mavs chock always in the playoffs.

U can write 10000 posts about Chandler/their defense this year, the morons would only see Mavs/Dirk and automatically write the same answer.

Lets w8t and see. And maybe they'll make a good trade in the winter.


BTW i don't believe they would win it all. Imo they need another piece.

I do think another scoring piece is needed for the Mavs though I think they have pretty solid chemistry. But still a look at Rip Hamilton might be a good move. Even though he's old he's in great shape and I think he could contribute a lot.

[BarberSchool]

I think they have a real shot. I've been watching Dallas closely for a few years now, but this is the only year where i think they have a real chance. It's because of their defense. Plus the fact that they have two 7 footers in Chandler & Haywood to throw at other teams. They have size, they can score, and they can defend. They pretty much have everything you would need for a ship.Exactly. But I'm still unsure if they're better than the Spurs, Celtics, and Lakers....I know they're better than any other team in the NBA besides those 3. I guess they don't have to be BETTER to beat those 3 teams, they just have to AS GOOD, and have one or two good shooting games in the series from players other than Dirk to win a series against any of those 3 teams.

[moaz]

I do think another scoring piece is needed for the Mavs though I think they have pretty solid chemistry. But still a look at Rip Hamilton might be a good move. Even though he's old he's in great shape and I think he could contribute a lot.

Wasn't thinking about a scoring piece. A good defending wingman would be great. An upgraded version of s. Marion :D :D :D .

[imdaman99]

It's very different this season. Their record is commanding against all the top teams, most of whom they have already beat on the road. if you looked at their stats last season, they were

2-2 vs LAL
2-2 vs OKC
3-1 vs SAS
2-1 vs DEN
2-1 vs PHX
1-3 vs PORT
1-2 vs UTA

Which is decent but what it really means is they sort of took care of business AND they had a record for most wins by 1 point during a season which means they weren't really winning convincingly. This season it's quite different.
Their record against the Spurs last year in the regular season tells it all. They got their ass handed to them in the playoffs didnt they?

[kentatm]

There is a big difference between a league statistical wonder and a NBA world championship sacred moments baller.

Even the other night when the Mavs closed out the Heat in Miami - it was Terry and Marion closing the Heat out...Dirk was a witness, if that - and the best closers get much respect - it is a very difficult thing to do.


:facepalm

that is just flat out pathetic analysis

you took ONE game (that he still put up 26/9 in) to disregard his entire career. Never mind Dirk has been one of the biggest 4th quarter scorers in the NBA for 10 years now. You just flat out don't know what the hell you are talking about.

[BarberSchool]

Another knock on Dirk N is that he is just not tough enough to secure a nba world championship ring. Garnett, for example, would throw DN halfway across the court just to intimidate him with a ring on the line.You know nothing, and seemingly just make up statements out of thin air based on your own imagination.
Dirk has SLAUGHTERED Garnett throughout the two men's careers.
KG can't do a thing with him without a double team.
For example, since you seem to want to put a post-season twist on the @ss end of your statement:

Nowitzki averaged 36 and 16, with KG guarding him the entire series, when his Mavericks SWEPT Garnett's Wolves out of the first round of the playoffs, KG disappeared that series...and KG lost in the first round almost every single year in Minny....is he a choker in the playoffs losing that many times in the first round? All these f#@king idiots like you that seem motivated by racism really deserve to watch the 2006 finals on sodium pentethol. Dirk and the mavericks were 2006 NBA finals champions that were robbed. Mark Cuban spent millions of dollars investigating that only to get countersued by Stern, and Stern now will void Cuban's contract of ownership iuf he publishes the findings of that very investigation.

Learn a thing or two, and take your f#@king blinders off, THEN TALK.
Good day.:cheers:

[Tide]

TIME WILL TELL
But I sure as hell hope so

[R4E]

You know nothing, and seemingly just make up statements out of thin air based on your own imagination.
Dirk has SLAUGHTERED Garnett throughout the two men's careers.
KG can't do a thing with him without a double team.
For example, since you seem to want to put a post-season twist on the @ss end of your statement:

Nowitzki averaged 36 and 16, with KG guarding him the entire series, when his Mavericks SWEPT Garnett's Wolves out of the first round of the playoffs, KG disappeared that series...and KG lost in the first round almost every single year in Minny....is he a choker in the playoffs losing that many times in the first round? All these f#@king idiots like you that seem motivated by racism really deserve to watch the 2006 finals on sodium pentethol. Dirk and the mavericks were 2006 NBA finals champions that were robbed. Mark Cuban spent millions of dollars investigating that only to get countersued by Stern, and Stern now will void Cuban's contract of ownership iuf he publishes the findings of that very investigation.

Learn a thing or two, and take your f#@king blinders off, THEN TALK.
Good day.:cheers:

I see you all are holdin it down for Dirk up in this forum! Too funny.

Truth be told Dirk N is a regular season marvel and a playoff fraud...just put in the DVD. Dirk is 90% finesse. Yoa Ming was all finesse too. Regretably Ming's body could not hold up to the rigors of an NBA season. I suppose, as a foreign born player of the greatest heights, I should be grateful to witness Dirk N amass upper echelon statistics. After all, that is the goal, isnt it? I mean at least Dirk is athletic and his body can hold up...lol. Once the Rockets realized Ming's reluctance to mix it up in the playoffs with some of the West's more aggressive 5s and front court players? Their strategy was to surround Ming with some hyperaggressive supporting players. Similarly once Cuban and co. realized that Dirk was not the one to grit his teeth and growl in the post season? The Mavericks had to bring in Chandler and Butler who were not necessarily going to cower to teams like the Nuggets(who according to Cuban himself were "a bunch of thugs"). Anthony, Billups, Martin, Birdman and Ne Ne were not going to just fall in line with Cuban's notions of gentlemanly sportsmanship in pursuit of the western conference, apparently. The book is written - get very physical with Dirk N in a post season series...and let the chips fall.

The Mavs are playing very well right now. Let us see how the Mavs are playing in May...

[BarberSchool]

Truth be told Dirk N is a regular season marvel and a playoff fraud.Son got robbed from his rightful championship in the 2006 finals, and everyone with a brain knows what went on with making D-Wade (D-Whistle) the new pretty boy savior of the league that year. David Stern knows what he did. tim Donaghy knows too. the truth will come out man, just like the truth about Sacremento vs. the Lakers came out in Donaghy's investigation.

Dirk quit basketball entirely that summer and went full-on hippie mode, backpacking across europe contemplating his life, career, and family...and what he should do....not because he lost, but after finding out that he'd been playing for a league that would do something so crooked like this, and he debated quitting the NBA that summer, and returning home to Germany to play ion the Bundesleague and win every year averaging 40.

He chose to persevere, and had his best season yet, going 67-15 with a #1 seed, winning MVP....only to have his former coach (Don Nelson), who knew all his ins-and-outs, devise a scheme to take him out of the series offensively in 07, and watch what the rest of the team did, it worked, Dirk averaged only 19 that series, and the mavs lost in the first round...and that's when all the choker talk started. he went on an even longer backpack that offseason, again going months without playing ball....but came back again to try and beat the game that was fixed against him.

He's not physically strong, but he's one of the best shooters of all-time, Like Reggie Miller, Ray Allen, Rip Hamilton, Herry West, Pistol Pete, Larry Bird.....none of those dudes had swoll arms, not even a little bit....neither will the next great shooting scorer of the NBA...Kevin Durant....Jabbar was almost all finesse, Olajuwon for most of his career was predominantly grace and finesse.....these dudes actually prefferred to be godly and graceful in every movement, never relying on violent actions in competition unless there was an advantage to doing so. they are also players NO ONE can front on...and I say that as someone brown who has kicked it in hundreds of Black barbershops on the westside, and hundreds of white barbershops on the northside.....finesse and gentlemanly greatness should be respected as much by young black men as it is by old black men....but scared is as scared does, and hatred and violence stem from fear. A fear of something different. And the way Dirk plays the game...it sure is different than how the young brothers play it.

And yet he slaughters them every year. And yes in the playoffs. A player doesn't have to be physically dominant to dominate...this is a misnomer brought up by those, who in their own experience with playing the game, ONLY had athleticism to offer on the court, they don't appreciate or admire those able to dominate a game without needing to utilize the fan's only attribute. It's the same reason them big fat white dudes watching football don't really feel the receivers too much, but they love a hard nosed Linebacker or Lineman, or a hard nosed fullback....Your motivations are no better than theirs son.

I hope you can come full circle and appreciate that Dirk Nowitzki is one of the 25 best to play the game, even if he doesn't do it "your way".

Fortuneately, this year, the Mavericks are a TOP 5 DEFENSIVE TEAM, without needing to be physical....we'll see what happens, but I think alot of racist haters are going to be upset.

[50inchvertical]

^ Wouldn't you be the racist one since you went on that irrelevant, race baiting rant even though the post you are replying to made no mention of race? :facepalm

[BarberSchool]

^ Wouldn't you be the racist one since you went on that irrelevant, race baiting rant even though the post you are replying to made no mention of race? :facepalmCut the sh!t son. Read between the lines in dude's post, he tries to pretend he's diplomatic, to hide his insult....he got just the right shock, for his own particular level of understanding of the game.

[thomaspynchon]

Son got robbed from his rightful championship in the 2006 finals, and everyone with a brain knows what went on with making D-Wade (D-Whistle) the new pretty boy savior of the league that year. David Stern knows what he did. tim Donaghy knows too. the truth will come out man, just like the truth about Sacremento vs. the Lakers came out in Donaghy's investigation.

Dirk quit basketball entirely that summer and went full-on hippie mode, backpacking across europe contemplating his life, career, and family...and what he should do....not because he lost, but after finding out that he'd been playing for a league that would do something so crooked like this, and he debated quitting the NBA that summer, and returning home to Germany to play ion the Bundesleague and win every year averaging 40.
He chose to persevere, and had his best season yet, going 67-15 with a #1 seed, winning MVP....only to have his former coach (Don Nelson), who knew all his ins-and-outs, devise a scheme to take him out of the series offensively in 07, and watch what the rest of the team did, it worked, Dirk averaged only 19 that series, and the mavs lost in the first round...and that's when all the choker talk started. he went on an even longer backpack that offseason, again going months without playing ball....but came back again to try and beat the game that was fixed against him.

He's not physically strong, but he's one of the best shooters of all-time, Like Reggie Miller, Ray Allen, Rip Hamilton, Herry West, Pistol Pete, Larry Bird.....none of those dudes had swoll arms, not even a little bit....neither will the next great shooting scorer of the NBA...Kevin Durant....Jabbar was almost all finesse, Olajuwon for most of his career was predominantly grace and finesse.....these dudes actually prefferred to be godly and graceful in every movement, never relying on violent actions in competition unless there was an advantage to doing so. they are also players NO ONE can front on...and I say that as someone brown who has kicked it in hundreds of Black barbershops on the westside, and hundreds of white barbershops on the northside.....finesse and gentlemanly greatness should be respected as much by young black men as it is by old black men....but scared is as scared does, and hatred and violence stem from fear. A fear of something different. And the way Dirk plays the game...it sure is different than how the young brothers play it.

And yet he slaughters them every year. And yes in the playoffs. A player doesn't have to be physically dominant to dominate...this is a misnomer brought up by those, who in their own experience with playing the game, ONLY had athleticism to offer on the court, they don't appreciate or admire those able to dominate a game without needing to utilize the fan's only attribute. It's the same reason them big fat white dudes watching football don't really feel the receivers too much, but they love a hard nosed Linebacker or Lineman, or a hard nosed fullback....Your motivations are no better than theirs son.

I hope you can come full circle and appreciate that Dirk Nowitzki is one of the 25 best to play the game, even if he doesn't do it "your way".

Fortuneately, this year, the Mavericks are a TOP 5 DEFENSIVE TEAM, without needing to be physical....we'll see what happens, but I think alot of racist haters are going to be upset.


is this true? I wouldn't be surprised if the Finals defeat led him to almost lose his mind.

[B-Easy]

they wont beat the Lakers with Barea trying to drive on the Laker bigs ..but if Baebouis breaks out and takes Bareas minutes..

then yes i take them serious ..

I was really impressed with their defense on the road against Miami .. they shut down the paint and shut down Lebron ..

[Kurosawa0]

What an insightful comment considering Duncan isn't even the goto guy anymore on the Spurs and what the hell do you mean by big wing player really that's what the Mavs need to win the West smh. Go back to basketball school.

I did and I found out that a basketball team consists of five players. I'm glad I could share that knowledge with you. You obviously need it.

[donald_trump]

you havent heard the mavs excuses?

they dont care about playoffs, they're proven in the regular season.

[nashisbest]

tell me who doesn't want to watch a Heat vs Lakers finals?

Mavs to the finals? bleh....

make it happen, Stern

[icemanfan]

Lets face it they are playing great, 24-5 record, beaten Miami twice, Spurs, great record against 500 above teams

Chandler inside has made a real difference inside for them.

You believe they have a great shot to be champs come end of the season? or still not sure?
They are legit for sure Net. There can be only one though so if they do not make it to the top this time it could be a tough summer.

[R.I.P.]

The main difference between these Mavs and the post Warriors Mavs is that they believe again for the first time in years. Chandler changed the whole attitude of the club.

He also gives the Mavs an opportunity to play 5 on 5 on offense, instead of 4 on 5. In the play-offs Haywood and Dampier are left more open than Magic Johnson at a hooker convention. Players rotate of them to double Dirk and mark the shooters tight. Now you have Chandler at the rim, who can finish and if he gets fouled on late rotations actually makes his free throws unlike Dampier and Haywood. If you don

[R.I.P.]

They are legit for sure Net. There can be only one though so if they do not make it to the top this time it could be a tough summer.

True there are so many good teams, that winning it all has a lot to with luck. When you play against the refs and your dumb coach it

[creepingdeath]

Similarly once Cuban and co. realized that Dirk was not the one to grit his teeth and growl in the post season? The Mavericks had to bring in Chandler and Butler who were not necessarily going to cower to teams like the Nuggets(who according to Cuban himself were "a bunch of thugs"). Anthony, Billups, Martin, Birdman and Ne Ne were not going to just fall in line with Cuban's notions of gentlemanly sportsmanship in pursuit of the western conference, apparently. The book is written - get very physical with Dirk N in a post season series...and let the chips fall.
How do these haters always come up with some new sh*t? Dirk averaged 34.4 points, 11.6 rebounds and 4 assists in the series against Denver and shat all over them. If the refs would have whistled the foul against Melo, they lose and the series goes to 6 agmes.

[R4E]

How do these haters always come up with some new sh*t? Dirk averaged 34.4 points, 11.6 rebounds and 4 assists in the series against Denver and shat all over them. If the refs would have whistled the foul against Melo, they lose and the series goes to 6 agmes.

Creepingdeath, just out of curiousity - are you in agreement with BarberSchool that *****Dirk Nowitzki is one of the 25 best to play the game, even if he doesn't do it "your way".*****

And BarberSchool is that top 25 of all players in NBA & ABA history???

[eppelp]

Can you really take these guys seriously?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwfMmNXwzL0&feature=player_embedded

[creepingdeath]

Creepingdeath, just out of curiousity - are you in agreement with BarberSchool that *****Dirk Nowitzki is one of the 25 best to play the game, even if he doesn't do it "your way".*****

It doesn't matter what I think about that. Why should I even bother answer someone's question who claimed that Dirk is a playoff fraud?

On a sidenote: Dirk's still in his prime years and this season might be his best yet. His resume will only get better.

[JohnWall2]

as my fav espn analysts jbull n tim legler always say, this is da team too look out for in da west... glad my WIZ aint in da west

[R4E]

It doesn't matter what I think about that. Why should I even bother answer someone's question who claimed that Dirk is a playoff fraud?

On a sidenote: Dirk's still in his prime years and this season might be his best yet. His resume will only get better.

Because I am brand new here. I am just checking out what the typical poster here sees when watching the NBA game - and how atypical my perspectives are concerning the NBA game.

Everybody that has played basketball at a high level can see that Dirk N has uncommon skill...at least offensively. When I posted that Dirk is not tough or determined enough to get it done in the post season? Dirk apologists immediately hit me with Dirk's oh-so-impressive post season series statistics.

Consider this: every NBA team in the post season is going to have dominate players who have amassed impressive statistics - usually over the course of a well established NBA career. So impressive statitstics alone are never going to determine which team will win the series, the conference or the championship. So Dirk may get his(apparently) highly coveted statistics in the post season, but his teams(where Dirk is the supposed leader and best player) are typically an easy out - sometimes even a joke of an easy out. If there was a choice Dirk would be better off sacrificing his statistical marvels to consistently propel his teams farther each post season in the tournament.

Dirk is a playoff fraud because his game is limited and predictable. In other words, Dirk's game is not adaptable to give his team exactly what it needs to win down the stretch against an elite opponent. Would Dirk make the key steal to preserve the victory down the stretch when defense is what is needed to secure the series?

What makes a truly elite player is the way they elevate their teams' play and make every player around them better. Dirk does his statistical thing, plays hard and the way he can in the playoffs...but an elite player? A top 25 of all time player? Whadda sad joke

[R4E]

:facepalm

that is just flat out pathetic analysis

you took ONE game (that he still put up 26/9 in) to disregard his entire career. Never mind Dirk has been one of the biggest 4th quarter scorers in the NBA for 10 years now. You just flat out don't know what the hell you are talking about.

It is that Dirk was a decoy when it was time to close the Heat out.

Mavs at the Heat was a marquee game, esp as an early regular season game. Elite players come to play for the entire game when healthy for big time games. Elite players expect to make grand contributions in big time games, and particularly down the stretch of big time games. It seems Dirk was content to be a decoy...and even commented on how elated he was that Terry was taking over games in the 4th quarter recently. A true eyebrow raiser of a comment, I would say

:cheers:

[game385]

No. They're usually really good in the regular season but they always blow it in the playoffs.

[moaz]

:applause: :applause: :applause:


Why do we have to ask this question again?
Morons would mention GSW
Bigger morons : Miami
The biggest morons: Mavs chock always in the playoffs.

U can write 10000 posts about Chandler/their defense this year, the morons would only see Mavs/Dirk and automatically write the same answer.

Lets w8t and see. And maybe they'll make a good trade in the winter.


BTW i don't believe they would win it all. Imo they need another piece.

No. They're usually really good in the regular season but they always blow it in the playoffs.

[Knine]

I think they are the 3rd best team in the west behind Lakers and Spurs. The 1234 would probably be Lakers, Mavs, Spurs and Utah. They might actually be better than San Antonio. The Mavs do have a better bench then them and thats not just Jason Terry. But Utah might come rolling thru with DWill and company. Utah has a bunch of underrated players on that team. Lakers-Mavs WCF.

[BarberSchool]

Dirk is a playoff fraud because his game is limited and predictable.Bolded portion is true.
Dirk's game is limited and *somewhat* predictable.
Many dominant players have been limited and predictable. Jabbar, Ewing, Bernard King, Tim Dincan, even malone after he cut off his high-top was really quite predictable......
...and guess what....
...even with moderate predictability and stylistic limitations...
...there still ain't a d@mn thing Garnett, Melo, Nene, Birdman, Duncan, McDyess, Battier, Landry, Webber, or Amare could do to stop Nowitzki in the postseason for his whole career....the only one who held dirk to less than ~23ppg in a series was his former coach, Don Nelson. think about that.....then think about how many greats have been held under 20 and knocked out in the first round more than once.....you'll find alot of players you assumed otherwise.....how many times have the other greats of Today made the NBA finals? How many others have made it to numerous Western Conference Finals? How many have gotten knocked out of the first round more than once? You'll find alot of teams you just forgot about, that you assumed did better and never "choked".

And as for the all-time ranking....Dirk's top 40 at worst right now, and when he retires maybe 4 years from now, he'll be top 25. Ask Jordan, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Kobe, Walton, Russel, Hakeem, Barkley and and Jabbar where they rank Dirk when he retires.

And watch how mad so many haters will be if the Mavericks win a title this year WITHOUT the Lakers, Spurs or Celtics suffering a major injury. Watch Stern try to set the mavs up to fail in a WCF by having Danny Crawford ref every game in the series, and the Mavs still pull it out. The kneejerk reaction haters will be scrambling for excuses to discredit the Mavericks. Pointing at luck or an opponent's weakness, never at the Mavericks wise veteran roster, diverse offensive talent, and top 5 defense. It's posters like you and other doubters and haters that have made me emotionally commit to the mavericks again, and I can't wait for the postseason. See your team there.:pimp:

[wally_world]

Can you really take these guys seriously?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwfMmNXwzL0&feature=player_embedded

:oldlol:

Barea looks like a kid

[creepingdeath]

Because I am brand new here. I am just checking out what the typical poster here sees when watching the NBA game - and how atypical my perspectives are concerning the NBA game.
Dirk has been underrated here for several years, yet since a few months the respect for him seems to have grown a lot due to his MVP-calibre ball.


Everybody that has played basketball at a high level can see that Dirk N has uncommon skill...at least offensively. When I posted that Dirk is not tough or determined enough to get it done in the post season? Dirk apologists immediately hit me with Dirk's oh-so-impressive post season series statistics.
Your first post in this thread was claiming that KG would throw DN halfway over the court, which is quite ridiculous considering the fact that Nowitzki regularly sh*ts on KG, especially in the playoffs. You then went on to describe is supposed softness and denied him being a closer, attributing that feat to the likes of Terry. :facepalm


Consider this: every NBA team in the post season is going to have dominate players who have amassed impressive statistics - usually over the course of a well established NBA career. So impressive statitstics alone are never going to determine which team will win the series, the conference or the championship. So Dirk may get his(apparently) highly coveted statistics in the post season, but his teams(where Dirk is the supposed leader and best player) are typically an easy out - sometimes even a joke of an easy out. If there was a choice Dirk would be better off sacrificing his statistical marvels to consistently propel his teams farther each post season in the tournament.
The bolded part is true, indeed. If Dirk was facing the choice whether his team fares deeper into the playoffs with him only averaging only 15/5, he would do that. But if he averaged such statistics, the Mavs would drown against any opponent (at least in a series). I'm actually not quite sure what you are hinting at. Dirk's stats are not empty, if you want to imply that, thus the 50+ win seasons for a decade.


Dirk is a playoff fraud because his game is limited and predictable. In other words, Dirk's game is not adaptable to give his team exactly what it needs to win down the stretch against an elite opponent. Would Dirk make the key steal to preserve the victory down the stretch when defense is what is needed to secure the series?
Well, coincidentally, in the first game versus the Heat, Dirk has had two crucial steals down the stretch. Only a tiny example. DN is not only a great scorer, and definitely not predictable (truly elite scorer cannot be predictable, that's mutually exclusive). As for his defense, it's vastly underrated. While dirk's help defense is average, his 1on1 D is actually good. People who regularly watch Mavs games know that.

Defense: Pts per 100 Poss. w/ Dirk on the court: 99.8
Defense: Pts per 100 Poss. w/ Dirk off the court: 112.5

Effective FG% Allowed w/ Dirk in the court: 45.7%
Effective FG% Allowed w/ Dirk off the court: 52.7%

Defensive Rebounding w/ Dirk on the court: 72.9%
Defensive Rebounding w/ Dirk off the court: 70.6%


What makes a truly elite player is the way they elevate their teams' play and make every player around them better. Dirk does he statistical thing and plays hard and the way he can in the playoffs...
Exactly what Dirk does.



Mavs at the Heat was a marquee game, esp as an early regular season game. Elite players come to play for the entire game when healthy for big time games. Elite players expect to make grand contributions in big time games, and particularly down the stretch of big time games. It seems Dirk was content to be a decoy...and even commented on how elated he was that Terry was taking over games in the 4th quarter recently. A true eyebrow raiser of a comment, I would say

So what are you saying? That Dirk doesn't show up in the 4th? :roll: Nice way of exposing yourself as an ignorant poster.

Dirk was third in 4th quarter points last year (only to Lebron and Kobe), he has had amazing takeovers (29 points against Utah in the 4th quarter, several rbds, stls and ass) and several gamewinners (including some to beat the buzzer). To stay with this season, only a few games ago, against Portland, he scored 12 of the last 16 points of the Mavs in the final quarter. He hit the gamewinner against the Celtics and is tied for 3rd or 5th place (don't remember correctly) for most 4th quarter points per game.

[chris2010]

yes

[R4E]

that have made me emotionally commit to the mavericks again, and I can't wait for the postseason. See your team there.:pimp:

I am an enthusiastic Laker fan, Barber School. Now Kobe is authentically a top 25 NBA historical player...as his 5 glistening rings exclaim. And further, it is Pau Gasol who is the greatest foreign player to toil on the NBA's hallowed court...and no other.

As for your emotional rebirth and commitment in supporting the Mavs and statistical marvel Dirk?

You, sir, are accurately described as a masochist.

You all can apologize and excuse all you want...but Dirk, Mark Cuban and the Dallas Mavericks have a history that will continually repeat. Bank it like cash money

[SCdac]

Call me skeptical. It's not necessarily how the Mavericks play in the playoffs (which is far from flawless, under pressure), it's how opponents play the Mavs in the playoffs. They turn them into jump shooters, they make Dirk carry the team, they make the Mavs defend, they make Carlisle have to adjust, etc. Regular season is one thing, but I think when you really put the clamp down on players like Dirk, Terry, and even Jason Kidd, they're going to have a hard time getting more W's than L's. They don't exit in the first round a few times just by fluke, they lack(ed) too many things I think, starting from the best player on the team's qualities to the coach's. I take every team in the league seriously though, especially considering surprises happen every season, and the Mavs have been to the Finals once. But the only true "top title contenders" in my mind are the Lakers and Celtics. Spurs, Mavs, Heat, all contenders but not quite at the top looking down.

[TMacsOneGoodEye]

Dallas and any Dirk led team should never be taken seriously as a threat until they have won 4 games in the NBA finals. And I mean actually won, the buzzer ran out and the Finals MVP trophy has been presented. I don't care if there are two seconds on the clock and Dallas has a 50 point lead. They could win all 82 games in the regular season and they still shouldn't be the favorite going into the post-season. Dirk's Dallas teams have always been regular season monsters.

That's just how it is when you have won 50 games for like 10 years straight and have lost in the first round as both a 1 and 2 seed and never won it all.

I actually think they're better in the underdog role because their biggest playoff series wins have been when they weren't favored. When they're favored, more often than not, it's an embarrassing exit.

[creepingdeath]

And further, it is Pau Gasol who is the greatest foreign player to toil on the NBA's hallowed court...and no other.
:roll:

But nice way of totally ignoring my post. Very revealing of the credibility of you and your arguments...


As for your emotional rebirth and commitment in supporting the Mavs and statistical marvel Dirk?

You, sir, are accurately described as a masochist.

You all can apologize and excuse all you want...but Dirk, Mark Cuban and the Dallas Mavericks have a history that will continually repeat. Bank it like cash money
No Mavs fan has ever apologized in this thread. :confusedshrug: Dallas might not have a ring, but they've had some nice runs in the playoffs the last decade and have been great in the RS. If you just happen to be a Lakers fan, good for you, but it's not like you contributed anything to their rings, so who cares. Being fan of one of the most successful NBA franchises doesn't make you a better supporter, quite the contrary, popularity begets even more popularity, so there are a lot of bandwagoners who put the real fans in a bad light.

[R4E]

:roll:

But nice way of totally ignoring my post. Very revealing of the credibility of you and your arguments...

I chose not to engage you further, creepingdeath - not for lack of respecting the way you see the game or your use statistics to support your arguments - which is admirable by the way...

In 2 posts you have exacerbated a tactic about describing me as self-revealing my ignorance. And if I am truly ignorant? I did not think you wanted to see a response from me. I honestly thought you were grandstanding to soothe Dirk apologists. It is all good...

:cheers:

If you just happen to be a Lakers fan, good for you, but it's not like you contributed anything to their rings, so who cares.

While true, I am not sure you are the one to measure that in ignorance.

Barber School ended - see your team in the playoffs - is why I designated myself as a Laker Fan - and no other reason.

[Hawker]

Pau Gasol, who has never won a playoff game as the #1 option, is the best foreign player ever to touch an NBA court.

Hilarious.

[R4E]

Pau Gasol, who has never won a playoff game as the #1 option, is the best foreign player ever to touch an NBA court.

Hilarious.

Pau Gasol has the 2 most recent rings.

But you have a point if we get technical.

Ewing - Jamaica
Olajuwon - Nigeria
Wilkins - France
Nash - Canada
Ginobili - Argentina
Gasol - Spain
Nowitzki - Germany

That is quite a team, if their primes were to coincide

[creepingdeath]

I chose not to engage you further, creepingdeath - not for lack of respecting the way you see the game or your use statistics to support your arguments - which is admirable by the way...

In 2 posts you have exacerbated a tactic about describing me as self-revealing my ignorance. And if I am truly ignorant? I did not think you wanted to see a response from me. I honestly thought you were grandstanding to soothe Dirk apologists. It is all good...

:cheers:
No harm done, but consider this: The usual strategy of haters on ISH (may that be a Kobe hater, a Lebron hater or a Dirk hater) is to troll around in a thread, post one-liners & diss on a player.

But there's an even more aggravating kind of troll: the sophisticated one. Those self-righteous haters taunt us with longer posts, trying to appeal as a credible person with actual arguments for a change. So when you react to such posts, bring up your own criterion and really put your heart into a post writing long paragraphs, you'll get ignored again. Until another thread with the same agenda pops up... Picture-perfect example of this: Showtime.

And I'm sorry, but I just can't accept it if someone's claiming that Dirk has never had any playoff success, doesn't show up in the clutch, is a choker, inferior to a guy like Pau Gasol etc.

[Brickz187]

Happens every year

[ACCBaller1403]

The guys that have one as inarguable first options in the 2000's:

Shaq
Duncan
Kobe

That's it.

So to say Dirk doesn't have the will to win is questionable at best since you could point to the list above and claim the same thing about every other player in the league. Is Dirk as good as those three historically? Absolutely not. But neither is anyone else. These are 3 of the top 10 players of all time.

Think about that. OF ALL TIME. Think of the thousands of players that have come in and out of the NBA. Just because Dirk doesn't stack up to those three doesn't mean that should be held against him.

To use Dirk's series against Denver as a negative is pure stupidity. Use his Warriors series if anything. That's really the only series you could claim as a truly poor performance (even then he averaged 20...on awful percentages but still averaged 20...just saying). Maybe the finals against the Heat but even then Dirk hit a potential game winner over Shaq just to have Wade get bailed out on the other end.

You can use subjective ideas like "will" and "toughness" and whatever else you want to claim he doesn't have. The stats will negate all of that. How many players have sniffed a Finals series? He lost. Yeah, it sucks for him and his fans. But he made it further as the leader of a team then 99.9% of the NBA does. Think about that.

He's a tremendous player. I wouldn't say top 25 all time. He can get there, but he's absolutely top 40. First ballot Hall of Famer without a question. Instead of just talking about whether or not KG would toss him around a court (proven to be false) or whether someone like Bowen could shut him down (also false) why can't you just see that he is an all time great and respect him as such. You don't have to like the way he plays but the stuff you are pulling out is flat out preposterous.

By the way, this whole post was directed at R4E.

Before anyone asks, I'm a Wizards fan...I just appreciate good basketball since I so rarely get to see it.

[DirkNowitzki41]

The guys that have one as inarguable first options in the 2000's:

Shaq
Duncan
Kobe

That's it.

So to say Dirk doesn't have the will to win is questionable at best since you could point to the list above and claim the same thing about every other player in the league. Is Dirk as good as those three historically? Absolutely not. But neither is anyone else. These are 3 of the top 10 players of all time.

Think about that. OF ALL TIME. Think of the thousands of players that have come in and out of the NBA. Just because Dirk doesn't stack up to those three doesn't mean that should be held against him.

To use Dirk's series against Denver as a negative is pure stupidity. Use his Warriors series if anything. That's really the only series you could claim as a truly poor performance (even then he averaged 20...on awful percentages but still average 20...just saying). Maybe the finals against the Heat but even then Dirk hit a potential game winner over Shaq just to have Wade get bailed out on the other end.

You can use subjective ideas like "will" and "toughness" and whatever else you want to claim he doesn't have. The stats will negate all of that. How many players have sniffed a Finals series? He lost. Yeah, it sucks for him and his fans. But he made it further as the leader of a team then 99.9% of the NBA does. Think about that.

He's a tremendous player. I wouldn't say top 25 all time. He can get there, but he's absolutely top 40. First ballot Hall of Famer without a question. Instead of just talking about whether or not KG would toss him around a court (proven to be false) or whether someone like Bowen could shut him down (also false) why can't you just see that he is an all time great and respect him as such. You don't have to like the way he plays but the stuff you are pulling out is flat out preposterous.

By the way, this whole post was directed at RE4.

Before anyone asks, I'm a Wizards fan...I just appreciate good basketball since I so rarely get to see it.

Wow, great post. Tooks some words right out of my mouth :applause:

[R.I.P.]

Pau Gasol has the 2 most recent rings.

So Darko is better than Ewing, Malone, Barkley, Kemp, and Dirk.

[R4E]

So Darko is better than Ewing, Malone, Barkley, Kemp, and Dirk.

Absolutely not.

What I meant to say is that Pau Gasol, with his filthy nuanced NBA game and skillset, is the greatest european basketball player to ever toil in the NBA.

What about that?!

And that includes Parker, Ginobili, Petrovic, Vujacic, Divac, etc

[R4E]

He's a tremendous player. I wouldn't say top 25 all time. He can get there, but he's absolutely top 40. First ballot Hall of Famer without a question. Instead of just talking about whether or not KG would toss him around a court (proven to be false) or whether someone like Bowen could shut him down (also false) why can't you just see that he is an all time great and respect him as such. You don't have to like the way he plays but the stuff you are pulling out is flat out preposterous.

By the way, this whole post was directed at R4E.

Good post. Thanx. That does not mean that I agree.

In terms of the possibilities of winning an NBA championship? I dont think Dirk is a true franchise player. That is not to say that Dirk is not a highly skilled piece of a chamionship puzzle, however. I just dont believe that Dirk is the guy...that guy a franchise builds around. The Mavericks designated the wrong player if their intent was to win championships. - Now...if Cuban just wanted to show and to fill the house nightly? And had no real intention of winning a ring(s)? Or would bindly luck into a championship ring if the stars aligned just right? Dirk N is the perfect man for that job. An imposter franchise player....a thinly veiled fraud of a faux dominant statistics amassing regular season marvel. That is how I see Dirk. If an Eastern team is lucky enough to draw Dirk and the Mavs in the NBA Finals??? They are going to be secretly getting their ring sized before tipoff of game 1.

I will go further and say if Dirk does get a ring? Dirk is going to have to latch onto a real franchise player as a "teammate" to get that championship ring.

[creepingdeath]

I will go further and say if Dirk does get a ring? Dirk is going to have to latch onto a real franchise player as a "teammate" to get that championship ring.
What if he wins a ring as the #1 option within the next 4 years with the current squad (and maybe complementary trades)?

[Zaknaf3in]

Good post. Thanx. That does not mean that I agree.

In terms of the possibilities of winning an NBA championship? I dont think Dirk is a true franchise player. That is not to say that Dirk is not a highly skilled piece of a chamionship puzzle, however. I just dont believe that Dirk is the guy...that guy a franchise builds around. The Mavericks designated the wrong player if their intent was to win championships. - Now...if Cuban just wanted to show and to fill the house nightly? And had no real intention of winning a ring(s)? Or would bindly luck into a championship ring if the stars aligned just right? Dirk N is the perfect man for that job. An imposter franchise player....a thinly veiled fraud of a faux dominant statistics amassing regular season marvel. That is how I see Dirk. If an Eastern team is lucky enough to draw Dirk and the Mavs in the NBA Finals??? They are going to be secretly getting their ring sized before tipoff of game 1.

I will go further and say if Dirk does get a ring? Dirk is going to have to latch onto a real franchise player as a "teammate" to get that championship ring.

This is wrong on so many levels. Gonna employ your kind of strategy and won't bring up any arguments. If you ask for some, I am just gonna repeat my first sentence. Merry christmas!

[R4E]

What if he wins a ring as the #1 option within the next 4 years with the current squad (and maybe complementary trades)?

Then I will be wrong and the ignorant, hater, preposterous poster that you claim creeping.

*that is, unless Jason Terry hits a last second 3 point shot in game 7 at boston to win by 1 point and the NBA Finals Series 4-3, and that after garnett's knee got hurt and he was out for the playoffs in a previous series - or the like - feel me?*

But if Dirk and his Mavs beat the Heat in 6 while James and Wade are healthy?

I'll come here to ISH and apologize in several threads(though I cant post a thread, it seems) for being wrong about Dirk and the Mavs.

[Hawker]

Pau Gasol has the 2 most recent rings.

But you have a point if we get technical.

Ewing - Jamaica
Olajuwon - Nigeria
Wilkins - France
Nash - Canada
Ginobili - Argentina
Gasol - Spain
Nowitzki - Germany

That is quite a team, if their primes were to coincide

Yes, as a second fiddle to Kobe. If you're going to compare rings, you have to at least be a #1 option.

Dirk & Kobe would be even more deadly.

[R4E]

Yes, as a second fiddle to Kobe. If you're going to compare rings, you have to at least be a #1 option.

Dirk & Kobe would be even more deadly.

Please. Kobe and Dirk are too much the same player, though Kobe is champagne and Dirk is beer in terms of refinement and limitations. Kobe and Dirk would not compliment each other at all. In contrast, Kobe and Pau compliment each other perfectly.

Dirk is a 3 that ought to be a 4. Pau is equally effective as a 4 and a 5 - and is clearly one of the top 3 bigs in the NBA.

Good offering from you otherwise, Hawk. Merry XMas

:cheers:

[BarberSchool]

But if Dirk and his Mavs beat the Heat in 6 while James and Wade are healthy?

I'll come here to ISH and apologize in several threads(though I cant post a thread, it seems) for being wrong about Dirk and the Mavs.Spoken like a Gentleman, and a sportsbook prophet. See you in the postseason.

[Hawker]

Please. Kobe and Dirk are too much the same player, though Kobe is champagne and Dirk is beer in terms of refinement and limitations. Kobe and Dirk would not compliment each other at all. In contrast, Kobe and Pau compliment each other perfectly.

Dirk is a 3 that ought to be a 4. Pau is equally effective as a 4 and a 5 - and is clearly one of the top 3 bigs in the NBA.

Good offering from you otherwise, Hawk. Merry XMas

:cheers:

Dirk has never had a teammate that attacks the rim like Kobe. They'd fit together fine.

And you only answered half my post. Pau Gasol is a Robin. Dirk is a Batman. And you say Dirk is a bad player to build around, then who is?

Duncan? Ok. Kobe? Ok. Shaq? Ok.

Three players in the entire league. If you can't build around Dirk then who besides those three players?

[R4E]

If you can't build around Dirk then who besides those three players?

A few great young players really look exciting for placing a championship team around them.

Dwight Howard
Derrick Rose
Deron Williams
Kevin Love

Maybe Blake Griffin...need to see more elements o his game. Is Griffin more Nique or Doc? Dont know yet

[R4E]

Dirk has never had a teammate that attacks the rim like Kobe.

Pau Gasol is a Robin. Dirk is a Batman.

ha! cute, untrue...but catchy.

When Dirk had a player as a teammate that is now a 2 time NBA MVP? SN was then all rim attack...and younger too.

Dirk is not Batman. Batman would have gone toe-to-toe with Wade in the 2006 season when Wade was dropping $40.00 in the NBA Finals.

Dirk is predictable in where he wants the ball on offense: 15-20 feet from the cup in isolation on the wing so that he can pull up for a fade away jumper against a shorter player. A 7 footer should not be prone to that tendency in a playoff series. In the 4th, since you Dirk fans are in awe of Dirk's tactics, he should drive and slash to the rim relentlessly and put tremendous pressure on th refs to call defensive fouls - so that he produces points on nearly every 4th quarter possession. I say that Dirk is not strong or scrappy enough to take the punishment - and make no mistake - they would punish him with a ring at stake.

Pau used to be reluctant to engage in intense physical playoff contact, as most euro players are prone to do - but Pau learned what championship NBA ball was all about. Pau is anxious to mix it up now. Pau will do the dirty work without a second thought...and he can take the punishment. I am sure the Phil and Kobe told Pau what they needed from him to be a continual championship threat. PG went from being a pure finesse player to being a grinder who gets crucial rebounds to close out game 7s.

[Maestro33]

Nope. Because come playoff time when it rains...Dallas...

http://www.kharlovka.com/trout-art-2008/30-8.jpg

[tpols]

ha! cute, untrue...but catchy.

When Dirk had a player as a teammate that is now a 2 time NBA MVP? SN was then all rim attack...and younger too.

Dirk is not Batman. Batman would have gone toe-to-toe with Wade in the 2006 season when Wade was dropping $40.00 in the NBA Finals.

Dirk is predictable in where he wants the ball on offense: 15-20 feet from the cup in isolation on the wing so that he can pull up for a fade away jumper against a shorter player. A 7 footer should not be prone to that tendency in a playoff series. In the 4th, since you Dirk fans are in awe of Dirk's tactics, he should drive and slash to the rim relentlessly and put tremendous pressure on th refs to call defensive fouls - so that he produces points on nearly every 4th quarter possession. I say that Dirk is not strong or scrappy enough to take the punishment - and make no mistake - they would punish him with a ring at stake.

Pau used to be reluctant to engage in intense physical playoff contact, as most euro players are prone to do - but Pau learned what championship NBA ball was all about. Pau is anxious to mix it up now. Pau will do the dirty work without a second thought...and he can take the punishment. I am sure the Phil and Kobe told Pau what they needed from him to be a continual championship threat. PG went from being a pure finesse player to being a grinder who gets crucial rebounds to close out game 7s.
What a ****ing clown ass post...

Steve nash averaged 13/9 in the playoffs and 14/9 in the regular season when he played with dirk. He wasn't even close to an MVP caliber player back then.

And it's funny that he is the ONLY player you can name that played with dirk over the years. A 14/9 player the best you can come up with?:oldlol: And then you have the nerve to say it would be better to build around kevin love and derrick rose than dirk?:eek:

This shit is priceless...

[M.V.P]

How good has Tyson been for them? I think his play, along with either Terry or Butler will be very important to any success. In the playoffs you're expecting Nowitzki and Kidd to bring it, and you're almost certain they'll play well. The problem last year was no inside defense combined with no offense from any other type of player. If you're getting consistent points from another player, with Tyson cleaning up the garbage and disturbing shots in the paint, then I think they have an excellent shot at beating any team.

If Bynum is healthy though, it'll be difficult for both Tyson/Dirk to take on Bynum/Gasol. Likewise if the Celtics are healthy, Shaq/Garnett/Davis/Perkins would just be difficult in the front court for Dallas to handle.

[R4E]

What a ****ing clown ass post...

Steve nash averaged 13/9 in the playoffs and 14/9 in the regular season when he played with dirk. He wasn't even close to an MVP caliber player back then.

And it's funny that he is the ONLY player you can name that played with dirk over the years. A 14/9 player the best you can come up with?:oldlol: And then you have the nerve to say it would be better to build around kevin love and derrick rose than dirk?:eek:

This shit is priceless...

More excuses...and this time from a particularly vile Dirk apologist.

The point with Nash, genius, is not only did Nash clearly have the talent to later become a 2-time NBA MVP...but he was an ascending player at that time. If an NBA MVP assist dominant rim attacking point guard is not the perfect compliment to a 7 foot tall high percentage shooting "small forward" (3)? Then who is the perfect compliment? There is no perfect compliment. Dirk's limitations are the true problem.

But defend Dirk to the grave...it is good for a chuckle. Dirk is a great shooter, shoots a high percentage - Dirk is better than Ralph Sampson and Brad Sellers of the same ilk...lol. Dirk has got them on longevity alone

:oldlol:

[Jacks3]

Mavs are contenders. They pretty much have the perfect teams to beat the Lakers.

Size against their front-line; A long, lanky,athletic defender to throw at Bryant.

Current Kobe tends to struggle against those types. I remember the Mavs pretty much shutting him down in their meetings last season.

[creepingdeath]

The point with Nash, genius, is not only did Nash clearly have the talent to later become a 2-time NBA MVP...but he was an ascending player at that time. If an NBA MVP assist dominant rim attacking point guard is not the perfect compliment to a 7 foot tall high percentage shooting "small forward" (3)?

No shit, wise guy? Unfortunately Nelson told Cuban that Nash is most likely gonna break down in a few years and didn't offer Steve enough. Nash felt offended and all of us know the rest of the story. But Dallas Nash is far from being MVP Nash, and none of the experts did see such an improvement coming.

[d.bball.guy]

Having Magicarp being fed by Kidd can make a difference, but I'm not sure if they will choke in the playoffs.

[creepingdeath]

Having Magicarp being fed by Kidd can make a difference, but I'm not sure if they will choke in the playoffs.
That thread was epic. :applause:

[Knine]

Of course they are...even if Dirk is a choker, J Terry isnt, Kidd has so much experience at the point, Butler is tough juice, and Chandler always has that dont mess with me attitude. The bench also is very reliable.

[creepingdeath]

Of course they are...even if Dirk is a choker, J Terry isnt, Kidd has so much experience at the point, Butler is tough juice, and Chandler always has that dont mess with me attitude. The bench also is very reliable.
:roll:

[icewill36]

they are. but im still worried they cant generate enough offense if dirk is off. can you REALLY depend on j terry and caron butler ??? certainly arent as good of supporting scorers as some of the other great teams. the defense is certainly good enough with chandler back there, but i still think dirk will have to carry too much of the load in a 7 game series.

[StillKill24]

soft, a soft european, old pg and they choke every year. yeah they are contenders. :rolleyes:

[kentatm]

i think they have everything together defensive wise.

i do worry about the scoring if Dirk is having an off game.

[cortices]

soft, a soft european, old pg and they choke every year. yeah they are contenders. :rolleyes:

Thanks for making it so easy to spot "fans" with little real basketball knowledge.