Bible and Archeology

[Lebron23]

The Discovery of the Seal of Gedaliah in 1935. Confirms the Existence of One of Jeremiah's Persecutors

http://www.biblehistory.net/newsletter/gedaliah.htm

http://www.iol.co.za/scitech/technology/archaeologists-find-gedaliah-s-seal-1.410791


Gabriel's Vision Stone Tablet: Prophecy of the Coming Messiah Jesus?

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/gabriels_vision_stone.html


Lots of Archeological Discoveries from this website.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/archeology.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_archaeology

List of Artifacts Significant to the Bible

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artifacts_significant_to_the_Bible


King Hezekiah Seal and Siloam Tunnel (Carbon Dating)

http://formerthings.com/hezekiah.htm

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/hezekiah.html

Jesus Christ - Yeshua Ben Josef ( Aramaic Name of Jesus)

http://formerthings.com/jesuschrist.htm


King David's Temple

http://formerthings.com/kingdavid.htm

King Herod the Great ( Bronze Coin, and Caesaria Maritima)

http://formerthings.com/king_herod.htm

Caiphas Ossuary (High Priest during the time of Jesus)

http://formerthings.com/caiaphas.htm

Crucifixion (During the First Century AD)

http://formerthings.com/crucifixion.htm

Throne of Satan (Pergamon Altar)

http://formerthings.com/throneofsatan.htm

http://www.google.com/search?q=Throne+of+Satan&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.*******:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Census of Augustus

http://formerthings.com/augustus.htm

Shiloh and the Ark of the Covenant

http://formerthings.com/shiloh_ark_of_covenant.htm

Jesus and Bethlehem - Why the Messiah would be born on Bethlehem?

http://formerthings.com/jesus_bethlehem.htm

http://www.konig.org/messianic.htm

Antonius Felix Bronze Prutah.

http://formerthings.com/antonius_felix.htm

King Esarhaddon of Assur

http://formerthings.com/esarhaddon.htm

King Artaxerxes.

http://formerthings.com/artaxerxes.htm

King Sargon of Assyria

http://formerthings.com/sargon.htm

Jezebel, King Ahab

http://formerthings.com/jezebel.htm

Solomon's Tadmor

http://formerthings.com/tadmor.htm

Tiglath Pileser

http://formerthings.com/tilgathpileser.htm

Capernaum


http://formerthings.com/capernaum.htm

King Uziah's tablet

http://formerthings.com/uzziah.htm

Temple of Dagon - Pagan God of the Philistines

http://formerthings.com/temple_of_dagon.htm

Seal of Baalis - King of the Ammonites


http://formerthings.com/baalis.htm

City of Nineveh

http://formerthings.com/nineveh.htm

Whoever wrote the scriptures in the Old and New Testament knew alot about history in their respective time periods. Some of these artifacts are just recent discoveries.

City of Shechem

http://formerthings.com/shechem.htm

Cyrus the Great Tomb, Cylinder, and Inscription

http://formerthings.com/cyrus.htm

http://www.bible-history.com/empires/cyrus_tomb.html


Darius the Great

http://formerthings.com/darius.htm

Pontius Pilate Inscription and Bronze Coin

http://formerthings.com/pontius.htm

Edict of Caesar

http://formerthings.com/nazareth_inscription.htm

Lysanias Tetrarch of Abilene

http://formerthings.com/lysanias.htm

King of Hamath

http://formerthings.com/king_hamath.htm

Judas of Galilee and Theudas

http://formerthings.com/judas_galilee.htm


King Mesha and King Omri of Israel


http://formerthings.com/mesha.htm

King David

http://formerthings.com/kingdavid.htm

Sanballat on the Elephantine


http://formerthings.com/sanballat.htm

The Merneptah Stele

http://formerthings.com/israelstele.htm

King Nebuchadnezzar

http://formerthings.com/nebuchadnezzar.htm

Pharaoh Rameses

http://formerthings.com/rameses.htm

Shushan The Palace

http://formerthings.com/shushanpalace.htm


Favorite Bible quote of the day: "Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God'. " Gamaliel - Rabbi of St. Paul of Tarsus. (Acts 5:34-39)

[Lebron23]

http://www.bib-arch.org/bar/article.asp?PubID=BSBA&Volume=37&Issue=1&ArticleID=7

Herod's Tomb

http://www.bible-history.com/archaeology/peoples/2-ancient-philistine-bb.html

Ancient Philistine

http://godssecret.wordpress.com/2009/12/09/biblical-archaeology-discoveries


Cuneiform tablet with part of the Babylonian Chronicle (605-594 BC), Cuneiform tablet with part of the Nabonidus Chronicle (556-530s BC) and Balaam's Inscription.

http://www.bible-history.com/empires/megiddo_seal.html

Megiddo Seal

Bible History Online

http://www.bible-history.com/biblehistoryonline_fallenempires.php

House of Peter at Capernacum

http://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/house-of-peter-at-capernaum-faq.htm

Galilean Fishing Boat

http://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/galilee-boat-faq.htm

Synagogue at Capernaum

http://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/synagogue-at-capernaum-faq.htm

The Tower of Babel (Gen 11) and Ancient Near Eastern Ziggurats

http://kata-aletheia.blogspot.com/2007/12/tower-of-babel-gen-11-and-ancient-near.html

http://www.historyofscience.com/G2I/timeline/index.php?id=1659

Ark of the Covenant Church finds ‘Jesus’ Inscription

http://www.bibleprophecyupdate.com/?p=913

Temple warning description

http://www.bibleprophecyupdate.com/?p=857

http://www.bibleprophecyupdate.com/?p=861

Armageddon Temple

[LilBTheBasedGod]

Thats pretty boss dude. Would rep you if I could :cheers:

[Lebron23]

Thats pretty boss dude. Would rep you if I could :cheers:


Thank you

:cheers:

[BuGzBuNNy]

I appreciate this, Lebron23.

(Deuteronomy 1:32)
In spite of this, you did not trust in the LORD your God.

[fiddy]

http://www.amazon.de/Banken-Brot-Bomben-Band-1/dp/3980710610
I advice you finding this book in English and reading it. The truth about Religion is in there. All religions=HOAX

[LilBTheBasedGod]

http://www.amazon.de/Banken-Brot-Bomben-Band-1/dp/3980710610
I advice you finding this book in English and reading it. The truth about Religion is in there. All religions=HOAX

You were on the wrong end of a Catholic preist joke growing up weren't you? :confusedshrug:

[Lebron23]

I appreciate this, Lebron23.

(Deuteronomy 1:32)
In spite of this, you did not trust in the LORD your God.


:cheers:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=193734

Dead Sea Scrolls From Jerusalem to Go Online in Photo Project With Google

[fiddy]

You were on the wrong end of a Catholic preist joke growing up weren't you? :confusedshrug:
In my country official religion is Orthodox Christianity but im an atheist.

[Lebron23]

You were on the wrong end of a Catholic preist joke growing up weren't you? :confusedshrug:

To see is to believe. Those are archaeological and historical evidence that support the bible. You can't deny that Jesus and other Bible Characters really existed.

[kentatm]

To see is to believe. Those are archaeological and historical evidence that support the bible. You can't deny that Jesus and other Bible Characters really existed.


people existing historically and the stuff that is claimed about them in books written thousands of years ago by people with an agenda do not prove the existence of a God.

[fiddy]

To see is to believe. Those are archaeological and historical evidence that support the bible. You can't deny that Jesus and other Bible Characters really existed.
Historical evidence my ass! The bible has be re-written, re-edit, translated, changed and so on. You cant rely on that fiction book. How about the differences between the old testment and the new one? Find the book i quoted above and read the truth, mate. Dont let that church narrow mind you.


people existing historically and the stuff that is claimed about them in books written thousands of years ago by people with an agenda do not prove the existence of a God.
Indeed.

[JtotheIzzo]

Its gonna take a few more links to sway me.

[Premeditated]

holla back @ me when there aren't hungry kids in Uganda and Indonesia on the verge of death. Then maybe you can preach some scriptures you got from that novel.

[Premeditated]

I'm curious about something maybe someone can help me with this question.

When was the Flood from Noahs Arc? Then from that point on, was it possible to repopulate the world in a timely fashion to allow the rise of nations (greek city states, Africa, Europe, The Americas?)? Could this have been possible?

EDIT

Also would there have been enough time to allow such differences as Black folk, Asians, Whites, Middle Eastern folk.
:oldlol:

damn! so according to Christians, Noah is responsible for the blacks, Asians, Latinos etc. That is a drastic change of appearance. So I'm assuming one of his descendants went to disclose location so hot that it darkened their skin and that person met someone else in that same location(most likely a relative:lol ) and they fukked to form the first official black person(BTW, this doesn't make no sense). Unless Noah himself was already black? So much flaws in the bible.

[Patrick Chewing]

Great info, OP

[Lebron23]

:oldlol:

damn! so according to Christians, Noah is responsible for the blacks, Asians, Latinos etc. That is a drastic change of appearance. So I'm assuming one of his descendants went to disclose location so hot that it darkened their skin and that person met someone else in that same location(most likely a relative:lol ) and they fukked to form the first official black person(BTW, this doesn't make no sense). Unless Noah himself was already black? So much flaws in the bible.

Noah was probably the same skin color as the Ancient Egyptians, and Ancient Mesopotamians. They were dark skinned. Some scientist estimated than it took 200,000 years for skin color to change.

[LilBTheBasedGod]

:oldlol:

damn! so according to Christians, Noah is responsible for the blacks, Asians, Latinos etc. That is a drastic change of appearance. So I'm assuming one of his descendants went to disclose location so hot that it darkened their skin and that person met someone else in that same location(most likely a relative:lol ) and they fukked to form the first official black person(BTW, this doesn't make no sense). Unless Noah himself was already black? So much flaws in the bible.

They were from the Middle East, so there was a good chance that they had African to Arabian skin

So much flaws in your grammar. :facepalm

[Lebron23]

They were from the Middle East, so there was a good chance that they had African to Arabian skin

So much flaws in your grammar. :facepalm

:cheers:

Ancient Egyptian

http://www.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.*******%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&biw=1360&bih=600&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=Ancient+egyptian&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

http://www.overseashealth.com/uploaded_images/egyptian1-705129.jpg


Ancient Sumerian

http://www.arthursclipart.org/fromthepast/past/ancient%20sumerian.gif

[LilBTheBasedGod]

Historical evidence my ass! The bible has be re-written, re-edit, translated, changed and so on. You cant rely on that fiction book. How about the differences between the old testment and the new one? Find the book i quoted above and read the truth, mate. Dont let that church narrow mind you.


You're one of those scientific pseudo-intellectuals huh?

People like that are even more ignorant than religious people :facepalm

[LilBTheBasedGod]

People that think all the Biblical characters are white are retarded :facepalm

[Lebron23]

Nimrod aka one of the most powerful Hunter in the Ancient World was Black.

The Queen of Shebah was from Ethiopia. Simon the Black Jew carried Jesus Cross.

Bathsheba the mother of King Solomon and Nathan was black ( The Ancient Hittites were black people). Jesus Christ is a a direct descendant of King Solomon (Joseph), and Nathan (Mary). ( Sons of David and Bathsheba)

Jesus is the Savior of all peoples ( White, Black, Yellow, Red, and Brown). He's the original people's champion.

[LilBTheBasedGod]

This is probably fairly accurate to what Jesus looked like

http://www.eglobe1.com/word/wp-content/images/photos/Jesus-Christ.jpg

This is the pagan Roman Catholic creation of what they wanted him to look like

http://st-takla.org/Pix/Jesus-Christ-our-Lord-n-Savior/28-Face-of-Jesus/www-St-Takla-org___Holy-Face-of-Jesus-22.jpg

[Lebron23]

Black Parents with white kids.

http://thestudyofracialism.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1567

http://bodyodd.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/07/20/4715095-white-baby-born-to-black-parents

[bluechox2]

nice

[vinsane01]

I see that some guys here believe that the story of noah's ark really did happen. I have so many questions regarding that story that needs clarification but quite frankly while i was still in grade school that story never really made any sense to me. Back then i looked at that story like a parable since almost all of the events that transpired in that story is incompatible with how the world works. I dont even want to state the details. For if people want to find out what the truth really is, you have to look for it yourselves.

[Patrick Chewing]

I see that some guys here believe that the story of noah's ark really did happen. I have so many questions regarding that story that needs clarification but quite frankly while i was still in grade school that story never really made any sense to me. Back then i looked at that story like a parable since almost all of the events that transpired in that story is incompatible with how the world works. I dont even want to state the details. For if people want to find out what the truth really is, you have to look for it yourselves.

"Noah's Ark" didn't necessarily have to be an ark. Noah's Ark could have been a metaphor for something else. Something more technologically advanced. A cryogenic bank for example.

[IcanzIIravor]

http://www.earthage.org/EarthOldorYoung/scientific_evidence_for_a_worldwide_flood.htm

Scientific Evidence for a Worldwide Flood

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/04/100428-noahs-ark-found-in-turkey-science-religion-culture/


Noah's Ark in Turkey


You're really passing off these last two as scientific evidence?

[Lebron23]

You're really passing off these last two as scientific evidence?

It's probably a hoax. I already deleted my post.

[Mista Kool]

In my country official religion is Orthodox Christianity but im an atheist.

Atheists aren't credible.

[fiddy]

You're one of those scientific pseudo-intellectuals huh?

People like that are even more ignorant than religious people :facepalm
I kind of feel bad for you...

[Lebron23]

Good Stuff.

http://greatcommission.com/

http://greatcommission.com/titusarch.jpg

http://picasaweb.google.com/101277318817728491623/MountAraratDurupinarTelcekerGeologicSite?gsessioni d=nfCEsSM53UMjjKHe7VfLBw

Mount Ararat

[Timmy D for MVP]

I'm an atheist but I am an historian and as such I know the importance of the Bible. The fact that so much of it is lost throughout the ages is just so painful, because we could know so much more if we had more writings.

In fact I really wish people (especially Rome, those guys were punks) would have burned everything BUT the libraries and temples holding works that would have changed the world. Can you imagine? In fact where is that damn article...

http://www.cracked.com/article/18368_7-books-we-lost-to-history-that-would-have-changed-world/

[Draz]

I don't understand how people take the bible so serious. Word for word, as if everything it said had happened, especially since it's re-written a couple trillion times, translated, etc.

[Lebron23]

I'm an atheist but I am an historian and as such I know the importance of the Bible. The fact that so much of it is lost throughout the ages is just so painful, because we could know so much more if we had more writings.

In fact I really wish people (especially Rome, those guys were punks) would have burned everything BUT the libraries and temples holding works that would have changed the world. Can you imagine? In fact where is that damn article...

http://www.cracked.com/article/18368_7-books-we-lost-to-history-that-would-have-changed-world/


I also want to see them excavate the old ruins in the Old Jerusalem. They might found some old Scriptures. I believe in God, and history is also my favorite subject.

The Tomb of Cyrus The Great - another historical bible figure.

http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Images2/Achaemenid/Pasargadae/cyrus_tomb2.jpg

http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Architecture/cyrus_the_great_tomb.htm

[Bladers]

I have always said the bible was a historical fact and dumbass atheists on here ridiculed me.

I swear atheists are the most senseless people on this planet.

[Timmy D for MVP]

I have always said the bible was a historical fact and dumbass atheists on here ridiculed me.

I swear atheists are the most senseless people on this planet.

No no the Bible is a historical document.

It is not a historical fact. It is a document written by a peoples who loved to write metaphorically, and is open to interpretation both from secular and religions schools of thought.

[Lebron23]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/5749555/Worlds-oldest-Bible-published-in-full-online.html

Oldest Bible.

[War Machine]

No no the Bible is a historical document.

It is not a historical fact. It is a document written by a peoples who loved to write metaphorically, and is open to interpretation both from secular and religions schools of thought.

I appreciate your views on God's Word, even though you're technically not a believer.

It's my own personal belief that the Bible is and should be open for interpretation. I believe much of it is as you stated, metaphoric and also highly symbolic.

As the Bible is read, studied, practiced and applied - it all doesn't have to be black and white. As we read between lines however, yes, some things are black and white such as:

In the beginning... God created - this IMO is not open for interpretation
Living the right way essentials (God's commandments): do not lie, do not steal, do not kill, honoring your father and mother, etc.
The birth of Jesus Christ (Yeshua), him being the one true messiah and savior. The life he lived, and how he lived it. His teachings of love, and how it's really all about love.

Love God more than anything. Love him first (after all, it was God who loved us first). Second, love your neighbor more than yourself (meaning everyone else). Lastly, love yourself.

If you follow these three steps (which is not easy), there will be no sin in your life. Imagine a world where everyone loved everyone more than themselves. Unfortunately, we do not live in that world. In today's world it's more like:

We love ourselves first. Maybe, we sometimes love others, but it's always back to loving ourselves again. Lastly, it seems fewer and fewer people love God, our Creator who still and forever will love us! In fact, the world wants to eradicate God. How can we love something we want to destroy?

Back to the black and white point - IMO, there are just some things in the Bible that are pure truth, while much of it is more metaphoric and symbolic. That's not to discredit the areas of the Bible that are not black and white as lies, but more along the lines of helpful guidance along the way, explained to us in laymen's terms.

Kind of like the little boy who cried wolf - we know the story isn't real - however we know it's a rule we should all live by.

[Timmy D for MVP]

^^^

I'm curious, have you ever read D.F. Strauss' Life of Jesus? You may find it interesting. Strauss was a bit more liberal with his theology than I read you to be (he basically reject's Jesus' divinity), but it's still an interesting work.

[linZoMourning]

people existing historically and the stuff that is claimed about them in books written thousands of years ago by people with an agenda do not prove the existence of a God.

this

[highwhey]

No no the Bible is a historical document.

It is not a historical fact. It is a document written by a peoples who loved to write metaphorically, and is open to interpretation both from secular and religions schools of thought.
i don't think the world being a sphere was a metaphor
nor it being suspended over 'nothing'
or the concept of time and space, you know long before modern physics
expanding universe
empty space(universe)
invisible matter(to the human eye, you know that stuff that holds everything together)
blood clotting in babies
"life of the flesh is blood" hmmmm self explanatory or was the author employing a metaphor as well?

hydrology, physics, biology, geology, etc, where do you want to go sir?

people who bash the bible are a. mad because they were forced to study religion since childhood b. too lazy or unwilling to adhere to any high standard of moral so they childishly resolve to attempt their hand at humor and criticize believers

j$ made a good point in some other thread, if you don't like the traditional standard of something, i.e. reading a boring book, look for an alternative. no one seeks an alternative for the bible, i.e. a morally and socially benefical book that guides people in life. people appear to be too arrogant nowadays. "i have phd in astrophysics, because i took 20 graduate level physics courses and advance mathematics, i don't need some ancient childish book to tell me what do to do."

[Timmy D for MVP]

i don't think the world being a sphere was a metaphor
nor it being suspended over 'nothing'
or the concept of time and space, you know long before modern physics
expanding universe
empty space(universe)
invisible matter(to the human eye, you know that stuff that holds everything together)
blood clotting in babies
"life of the flesh is blood" hmmmm self explanatory or was the author employing a metaphor as well?

hydrology, physics, biology, geology, etc, where do you want to go sir?

people who bash the bible are a. mad because they were forced to study religion since childhood b. too lazy or unwilling to adhere to any high standard of moral so they childishly resolve to attempt their hand at humor and criticize believers

j$ made a good point in some other thread, if you don't like the traditional standard of something, i.e. reading a boring book, look for an alternative. no one seeks an alternative for the bible, i.e. a morally and socially benefical book that guides people in life. people appear to be too arrogant nowadays. "i have phd in astrophysics, because i took 20 graduate level physics courses and advance mathematics, i don't need some ancient childish book to tell me what do to do."

So you believe the Bible to be a literal work?

[highwhey]

So you believe the Bible to be a literal work?
not word for word. there are obvious metaphors. Jesus's great teaching abilities were attributed to his technique of employing illustrations. a lot of the agricultural references are only to simplify the explanation and allow the reader to see the comparison.


I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

to a certain extent, this is quite literal because to a believer, such as myself, god is responsible for biological activities and any life, including the growth of seeds, however, the main point to be extracted from this verse is that we should continue preaching because Yaweh will allow for newcomers to develop love for him and willingly accept. our individual responsibility is to speak and offer the truth, God is in charge of giving the "increase".

[War Machine]

^^^

I'm curious, have you ever read D.F. Strauss' Life of Jesus? You may find it interesting. Strauss was a bit more liberal with his theology than I read you to be (he basically reject's Jesus' divinity), but it's still an interesting work.

I have not read it. Never heard of it, or him. I will check up on it. Thanks.

[highwhey]

^^^

I'm curious, have you ever read D.F. Strauss' Life of Jesus? You may find it interesting. Strauss was a bit more liberal with his theology than I read you to be (he basically reject's Jesus' divinity), but it's still an interesting work.
you know apostle Paul predicted that individuals from the same christian congregation would give rise to false doctrines. surely enough, as he said, it happened. a lot of the false doctrines and subsequent set of of branching out and diverting from christian truth occured because of the application of HUMAN PHILOSOPHICAL lathering, that is, many of these individuals, especifically those inspired by Greek philosophers(i don't need to tell you, a historian, how philosophy played a role in Greek culture). they felt the need to "express" their faith through philosophical means to satisfy their intellectual thirsts or interlink their faith to PAGAN standards, i.e. giving birth to a lot of falsely celebrated holidays, specifically CHRISTMAS, i.e. 25 decemeber, GOD of SUN, no the birthday of Jesus.

it all occured because Paul and the othe rapostles served as a RESTRICTING force while they lived and visited congregations making sure everyone is being an according christian and adhering to biblical principles. PAUL himself and the other heads, when making the IMPORTANT decision of allowing UNCIRCUMCISED(THANK GOD HE LET THEM MAKE THE RIGHT DECISION CUZ I AM NOT CIRCUMCIZED AND UNLIKE TIMOTHY, I WOULD HATE TO BE CIRCUMCISED) anyhow, they let themselves be guided by the holy spirit to arrive at a conclision by ANALYZING THE SCRIPTURES PHYSICALLY, not usng SOCRATES manenr of reasoning and mentally arguing scriptures.

[Timmy D for MVP]

you know apostle Paul predicted that individuals from the same christian congregation would give rise to false doctrines. surely enough, as he said, it happened. a lot of the false doctrines and subsequent set of of branching out and diverting from christian truth occured because of the application of HUMAN PHILOSOPHICAL lathering, that is, many of these individuals, especifically those inspired by Greek philosophers(i don't need to tell you, a historian, how philosophy played a role in Greek culture). they felt the need to "express" their faith through philosophical means to satisfy their intellectual thirsts or interlink their faith to PAGAN standards, i.e. giving birth to a lot of falsely celebrated holidays, specifically CHRISTMAS, i.e. 25 decemeber, GOD of SUN, no the birthday of Jesus.

it all occured because Paul and the othe rapostles served as a RESTRICTING force while they lived and visited congregations making sure everyone is being an according christian and adhering to biblical principles. PAUL himself and the other heads, when making the IMPORTANT decision of allowing UNCIRCUMCISED(THANK GOD HE LET THEM MAKE THE RIGHT DECISION CUZ I AM NOT CIRCUMCIZED AND UNLIKE TIMOTHY, I WOULD HATE TO BE CIRCUMCISED) anyhow, they let themselves be guided by the holy spirit to arrive at a conclision by ANALYZING THE SCRIPTURES PHYSICALLY, not usng SOCRATES manenr of reasoning and mentally arguing scriptures.

After the Enlightenment the schools of thought began to change. What Strauss said was basically that when a culture evolves intellectually, so too must it's doctrines and beliefs. This includes religious ideals.

I'm not sure I understand your post, but reason does have to play a major role in that process.

Now if you want to talk about a combination of cultures and beliefs, well... that's a topic for another time, I don't want to get into that with you because I respect your Faith, and it's a tangent.

But your morality point that you made earlier is something I want to point out. Just because I can, I have to reference one more work: Religion Within the Limits of Reason Alone by one Immanuel Kant. Morality can be represented in, and shared with a religious ideal, but it is not generated from it. He also talks a great deal about rational religion vs. historical religion which also interesting.

[highwhey]

After the Enlightenment the schools of thought began to change. What Strauss said was basically that when a culture evolves intellectually, so too must it's doctrines and beliefs. This includes religious ideals.

I'm not sure I understand your post, but reason does have to play a major role in that process.

Now if you want to talk about a combination of cultures and beliefs, well... that's a topic for another time, I don't want to get into that with you because I respect your Faith, and it's a tangent.

But your morality point that you made earlier is something I want to point out. Just because I can, I have to reference one more work: Religion Within the Limits of Reason Alone by one Immanuel Kant. Morality can be represented in, and shared with a religious ideal, but it is not generated from it. He also talks a great deal about rational religion vs. historical religion which also interesting.
the difference between religion and any human manifested thought/beliefs(i guess if ur not a believer u will classify religion as human made) is that religion is a system that is not suppose to be altered unless divine intervention allows it to do so. yes, the book of Isiah does have a verse "i will bring you gold instead of bronze, silver instead of iron..(4 other metals are mentioned in similiar respect)" it is interpreted as a replacing progression of improvement, i.e., human understanding and corresponding belief of religion will improve over time, however, this is all with the guidance of god, not humans or their "evolved" culture, so it is categorized as divine permission of any alteration. most of these organizations of current and past times used human philosophies, monetary bribery(constatines ridiculous enrichement and favoring of these bishops allowed him to have an influence in doctrines and such) and other influential non-divine thoughts inseatd of the holy spirit. what is so difficult of imitating paul and the other heads when it comes to making decisions and changes?

[highwhey]

it's a testament to human arrogance, which ironically comess of as ignorance that many humans are unwilling to accept divine knowledge. even though the scriptures prove to be accurate in a accordance to a lot of scientific findings, the book is criticized and invaluable.

there is no room to apply your deductive or inductive reasoning to change anything. there is room however to apply your respectful common sense and basic reasoning to the scriptures so you can find the truth yourself with your own set of eyes. the bible even welcomes you to do so. i read it in spanish so it is quite difficult to translate it or qoute it accurately because it may lose meaning through tranlation.

[Timmy D for MVP]

the difference between religion and any human manifested thought/beliefs(i guess if ur not a believer u will classify religion as human made) is that religion is a system that is not suppose to be altered unless divine intervention allows it to do so. yes, the book of Isiah does have a verse "i will bring you gold instead of bronze, silver instead of iron..(4 other metals are mentioned in similiar respect)" it is interpreted as a replacing progression of improvement, i.e., human understanding and corresponding belief of religion will improve over time, however, this is all with the guidance of god, not humans or their "evolved" culture, so it is categorized as divine permission of any alteration. most of these organizations of current and past times used human philosophies, monetary bribery(constatines ridiculous enrichement and favoring of these bishops allowed him to have an influence in doctrines and such) and other influential non-divine thoughts inseatd of the holy spirit. what is so difficult of imitating paul and the other heads when it comes to making decisions and changes?

Ahh here is what Kant is talking about though. He was saying that Faith is divine. The knowledge is divine, but since we are the ones interpreting that which we supposedly cannot understand, our interpretations need to evolve as we do.

I guess from here we reach another tangent, and that is whether or not believers think the Bible is the interpretation of the Word of God or absolutely THE Word of God given to those who wrote them.

[highwhey]

Ahh here is what Kant is talking about though. He was saying that Faith is divine. The knowledge is divine, but since we are the ones interpreting that which we supposedly cannot understand, our interpretations need to evolve as we do.

I guess from here we reach another tangent, and that is whether or not believers think the Bible is the interpretation of the Word of God or absolutely THE Word of God given to those who wrote them.
the scriptures are only differentiable by the appropiate body or group, first century individuals, paul and apostles and elders of conrgegations were appropiate to interpret scriptures. in that specific case, circumcision was the debate, they made a decision after throroughly analyzing the scriptures as humans, however, they were guided by the holy spirit. their was no 30,000 euro silverware or high end automobiles present. i guess we reach another 'tangent'(i hate tangents in calculus, just another identity to remember) but the point is, the way it is set up is a HYBRID process, yes at the recieving end is a group of appointed humans but they do not emotionally or selfishly reason, they are humble servants with the intention of bettering a divine knowledge.

flow chart:
Yahweh
Jesus
Group of human individuals appointed by holy spirit

the problem is not understanding, the problem is that humans have diverted since to other non-divine methods such as using philosophies or other garbage to come to conclusions. their is no need to complicate things further, which I believe ur high-esteemed author is doing. the proccess is quite clear once you read the bible in depth without personal influence to form conclusions. a large portion of the scriptures does contain in depth knowledge, more so than you can gather by reading superficially but there is a huge difference between settling for the understanding and conforming the scriptures to what you want it to mean.

look at a calculus book, pick on speicifc formula, without guidance there is a trillion explanations for how a derivative of a function should be carried out, is "f prime" f to the 1st power? no! read the context and you will arrive at your conclusion, that is unless of course you want to add complexity by applying "higher philosophical" reasoning, but is the "f" a variable? it cannot just be a invaluable letter, it has to be a variable. :facepalm

jesus is not god. but he is divine.

the letter f is not a variable in itself, but it does assign value to another variable when the function is carried out

[Velocirap31]

The hell are you people talking about?

[highwhey]

The hell are you people talking about?
rundown:
why religion branched out

timmyD qoutes his author, something about humans correspondingly evolving religion and their udnerstanding of it as they evolved as a culture/civilization

highwheyawesome says
nonsenese, it's just people trying to imitate socrates's reasoning methods so they inecessantly add complexity to holy scriptures and make its udnerstanding skewed or conformed to their taste

i.e.
you read calculus early transcendatals stewart

do you believe it's definitions/explanations and trust it as you continue with your career
or
do you question every single thing on it? apply irrelevant reasoning, hmmm, is the page number part of the equation as well? hmm, this sigma notation is awfull close to the page number, do i calculate every series to 50 or is that just the page number?

[Velocirap31]

Thanks for the summary :cheers:

[Timmy D for MVP]

No you missed the notion entirely.

I suggest you read Kant yourself.

But to go back to my original point, it's a metaphorical work. Interpretation is part of the Bible, I believe you yourself said that (or was that WarMachine?).

[Velocirap31]

Kant's theory of duty based ethics? He ripped off the Bible with that one.

[highwhey]

No you missed the notion entirely.

I suggest you read Kant yourself.

But to go back to my original point, it's a metaphorical work. Interpretation is part of the Bible, I believe you yourself said that (or was that WarMachine?).
are you reading m titangraphs or skimming them? lol

it's difficult for me to have a theological discussion or anything related to the subject in english.

[Timmy D for MVP]

are you reading m titangraphs or skimming them? lol

it's difficult for me to have a theological discussion or anything related to the subject in english.

Yeah I'm having a hard time understanding you sometimes actually. :oldlol:

[highwhey]

Yeah I'm having a hard time understanding you sometimes actually. :oldlol:
:lol don't blame you. i've studied the bible my entire life in spanish.

[Lebron23]

http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/category/daily/news/

Biblical Archaeology Daily News

[Lebron23]

Archaeologists Find Earliest Known Metal Equestrian Bit in Israel

http://c1237914.r14.cf2.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/donkey-bones.jpg

http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/news/archaeologists-find-earliest-known-metal-equestrian-bit-in-israel/

[B]Italian Dig in Iraq Discovers Bronze Age

[Lebron23]

St. Paul's Tomb

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/bigphotos/images/061211-saint-paul_big.jpg

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/bigphotos/89093642.html

http://www.welcometohosanna.com/PAULS_MISSIONARY_JOURNEYS/RomeImages/paulTombMarke.gif

http://www.zenit.org/article-26323?l=english

[DonDadda59]

To see is to believe. Those are archaeological and historical evidence that support the bible. You can't deny that Jesus and other Bible Characters really existed.

So because the Bible mentions some real towns/cities and archaeological sites, that means we can't deny Jesus and other make believe characters actually existed?

Using your 'logic'...

http://www.spidermancrawlspace.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/amazing_spiderman_36.jpg

This Spiderman comic shows NYC and the events that took place on 9/11, and clearly Spiderman was there when it happened. Society 2,000 years from now can't deny that Spiderman exists right? :biggums:

[Lebron23]

So because the Bible mentions some real towns/cities and archaeological sites, that means we can't deny Jesus and other make believe characters actually existed?

Using your 'logic'...

http://www.spidermancrawlspace.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/amazing_spiderman_36.jpg

This Spiderman comic shows NYC and the events that took place on 9/11, and clearly Spiderman was there when it happened. Society 2,000 years from now can't deny that Spiderman exists right? :biggums:


You guys believe in Dinosaurs and Evolution. The dinosaurs went extinct 65 million years ago.

[DonDadda59]

You guys believe in Dinosaurs and Evolution. I believe in Science and Religion.

Wait, wait, wait.... hold up... You don't believe in Dinosaurs?

And there's a distinction between science and evolution?

:confusedshrug:

[Lebron23]

Wait, wait, wait.... hold up... You don't believe in Dinosaurs?

And there's a distinction between science and evolution?

:confusedshrug:

I believe in Dinosaurs as much as I believe in the Bible. Please don't turn this into a religion thread. I hate Atheist and Religious freaks. The world will be a better place without these annoying jerk offs. My Muslim friend let me borrow his Quran/Koran. I am gonna read this book and compare it to the Original Bible, and King James Version.

[DonDadda59]

I believe in Dinosaurs as much as I believe in the Bible. Please don't turn this into a religious thread. I hate Atheist and Religious freaks. My Muslim friend let me borrow his Koran. I am gonna read this book and compare it to the Original Bible, and King James Version.

Fine, I'll turn it into a basic common sense thread. Have you ever been to a museum? One that specifically displayed dinosaur fossils aka proof of existence?

[Lebron23]

Fine, I'll turn it into a basic common sense thread. Have you ever been to a museum? One that specifically displayed dinosaur fossils aka proof of existence?


Yeah. Yeshua also existed. He was executed by the Romans and the jews in the first Century AD.

[DonDadda59]

Yeah. Yeshua also existed. He was executed by the Romans and the jews in the first Century AD.

See, I can go to a museum to see proof of a T-Rex's past existence. But there's nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing that even remotely shows the existence of Jesus Christ from the Bible. No birth certificate, no death certificate, nothing in the censuses that the NT writers mention, no writings by him or anyone who knew him or anyone who witnessed all of his miracles. Nothing is written about him until decades (centuries) after he supposedly lived and died, then lived again and floated off into space. How about digging up something archaeological that shows the main character of the NT actually existed (and no, the shroud of Turin doesn't count :lol ).

But like you said, I won't turn this into a religious thread. Carry on :cheers:

[Lebron23]

See, I can go to a museum to see proof of a T-Rex's past existence. But there's nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing that even remotely shows the existence of Jesus Christ from the Bible. No birth certificate, no death certificate, nothing in the censuses that the NT writers mention, no writings by him or anyone who knew him or anyone who witnessed all of his miracles. Nothing is written about him until decades (centuries) after he supposedly lived and died, then lived again and floated off into space. How about digging up something archaeological that shows the main character of the NT actually existed (and no, the shroud of Turin doesn't count :lol ).

But like you said, I won't turn this into a religious thread. Carry on :cheers:


Josephus on Historical Jesus. Josephus was a Jew. He was not a Christian.

http://www.noothergospel.com/historical%20Jesus.htm

[quote] On the eve of the Passover Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald . . . cried, 'He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy.'

The Babylonian Talmud , transl. by I. Epstein (London: Soncino, 1935), vol. III, Sanhedrin 43a, 281, cited in Habermas, The Historical Jesus, 203.

Reporting on Emperor Nero's decision to blame the Christians for the fire that had destroyed Rome in A.D. 64, the Roman historian Tacitus wrote:

Nero fastened the guilt . . . on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of . . . Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome.

Tacitus, Annals 15.44, cited in Strobel, The Case for Christ , 82.

Josephus, a prominent Jewish general taken captive by the Romans who destroyed Jerusalem in 70, knew quite a bit about the time period first hand. He lived there, and was in the know. He wrote a history of the Jews, and copies in other languages of these transcripts have surfaced for comparison further strengthening their trustworthiness. Living there himself during the times in such a position makes Josephus including fictitious people and events highly implausible. Some recent critics of Josephus' writings suggesting Yeshua never existed at all like to point out that there is no evidence Josephus really ever met Yeshua personally, and that he only "reported" on him to imply Yeshua never existed. Usually, those assuming this posture are from among those who do not want to believe in Yeshua. Otherwise, passages like Isaiah 53 in the Jewish Bible COULD apply to Yeshua from an objective standpoint if reading it at face value for there is no way that passage in context can refer to the nation of Israel since the nation is not without guile, or sin. In fact, Jewish scholars did not start interpreting Isaiah 53 to refer to the nation of Israel until thirteenth century Rashi. Rashi's thirteenth century views have been interpolated back upon the ancient text mainly because Isaiah 53 if taken at face value in context is problematic for many reasons. Among other things, it was written seven centuries before historical Yesuah, or Jesus, and clearly speaks of a coming man pierced and cut off for the transgressions of the people. Claiming Yeshua never existed in the first place using speculations like "Josephus never met Yeshua" is another convenient way of ducking all of these below the surface issues and implications when considering the striking parallels in events surrounding historical Yeshua, or Jesus. Even so, it is clear from Josephus' writings he at the very least met those eye witnesses of the EVENTS pertaining to Yeshua. For example, Josephus makes reference to James as the brother of Jesus in the course of explaining how the high priest Ananus took advantage of the death of the Roman governor Festus in 62 CE to organize a mob to stone James "the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ." Here are two references to historical Yeshua, or Jesus in Josephus' writitings:

At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. His conduct was good and (he) was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. But those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion, and that he was alive; accordingly he was perhaps the Messiah, concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders.

(Quoted in James H. Charlesworth, Jesus Within Judaism , (Garden City: Doubleday, 1988), 95, cited in Habermas, The Historical Jesus , 194).

Josephus makes reference to James as the brother of Jesus in the cource of explaining "how the high priest Ananus took advantage of the death of the Roman governor Festus in 62 CE to organize a mob to stone James. McDowell mentions this passage because Josephus identifies James as 'the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ'":

But the younger Ananus who, as we said, received the high priesthood, was of a bold disposition and exceptionally daring; he followed the party of the Sadducees, who are severe in judgment above all the Jews, as we have already shown. As therefore Ananus was of such a disposition, he thought he had now a good opportunity, as Festus was now dead, and Albinus was still on the road; so he assembled a council of judges, and brought it before the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ, whose name was James, together with some others, and having accused them as law-breakers, he delivered them over to be stoned.

Antiquities 20.9.1

[DonDadda59]

Josephus on Historical Jesus. Josephus was a Jew. He was not a Christian.

http://www.noothergospel.com/historical%20Jesus.htm



http://www.noothergospel.com/historical%20Jesus.htm

Ummmm.... you do know that virtually all Historians and archaeologists (both secular and non) consider the passages of Josephus' writings regarding Jesus as 'interpolations' (read: forgeries). Josephus was a Jewish General who switched his allegiance to the Romans during the Jewish-Roman War of 66-73 AD. Therefore he wasn't too popular with his own people who banned his works. They were scooped up by early Christians and 'revised' to plant their messiah into the Historical timeline.

Ironically enough, the leader of a future Jewish Revolt, Simon Bar Kohkba (who himself was a messianic candidate) is all over the historical record of the time. There are coins minted with his likeness, his letters are in museums, we even have his laundry lists... but the Son of God is no where to be found :confusedshrug:

Not that it matters, since Josephus was born after Jesus supposedly died. Is there anything contemporaneous in the Historical record regarding Yeshua. No writings by him? No records (birth, tax, death, etc)? There were thousands of people who witnessed him bringing people back from the dead, giving sight to the blind, walking on water, coming back from the dead, etc... None of these people thought to write any of this down? :confusedshrug:

[Lebron23]

Ummmm.... you do know that virtually all Historians and archaeologists (both secular and non) consider the passages of Josephus' writings regarding Jesus as 'interpolations' (read: forgeries). Josephus was a Jewish General who switched his allegiance to the Romans during the Jewish-Roman War of 66-73 AD. Therefore he wasn't too popular with his own people who banned his works. They were scooped up by early Christians and 'revised' to plant their messiah into the Historical timeline.

Ironically enough, the leader of a future Jewish Revolt, Simon Bar Kohkba (who himself was a messianic candidate) is all over the historical record of the time. There are coins minted with his likeness, his letters are in museums, we even have his laundry lists... but the Son of God is no where to be found :confusedshrug:

Not that it matters, since Josephus was born after Jesus supposedly died. Is there anything contemporaneous in the Historical record regarding Yeshua. No writings by him? No records (birth, tax, death, etc)? There were thousands of people who witnessed him bringing people back from the dead, giving sight to the blind, walking on water, coming back from the dead, etc... None of these people thought to write any of this down? :confusedshrug:

http://c1237914.r14.cf2.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/philip-tomb.jpg

http://c1237914.r14.cf2.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/bread-stamp.jpg

They discovered St. Phillips tomb in Turkey. He was one of the original Apostles of Christ.

http://news.discovery.com/history/tomb-of-jesus-apostle-110801.html

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/07/27/tomb-st-philip-apostle-discovered-in-turkey/

http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-sites-places/biblical-archaeology-sites/tomb-of-apostle-philip-found/

[kileer7]

LOL

[DonDadda59]

http://c1237914.r14.cf2.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/philip-tomb.jpg

http://c1237914.r14.cf2.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/bread-stamp.jpg

They discovered St. Phillips tomb in Turkey. He was one of the original Apostles of Christ.

http://news.discovery.com/history/tomb-of-jesus-apostle-110801.html

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/07/27/tomb-st-philip-apostle-discovered-in-turkey/

http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-sites-places/biblical-archaeology-sites/tomb-of-apostle-philip-found/


Yup, just like how they found Noah's Ark, right?

From the first article you linked:


D’Andria concedes that many of the details recounted in the Acts of Philip are uncertain.

"Elements of the story are richly imaginative, legendary and symbolic. But a Christian following centered on the sainted Philip the Apostle soon grew up at the site. And on his supposed grave was built one of the most remarkable structures in all of ancient Christendom — the martyrium of St. Philip," D’Andria writes in the current issue of Biblical Archaeology Review.

^That's from the archaeologist who discovered the tomb... that had no remains in it. The Church surrounding the tomb wasn't built until the 5th Century AD. So basically they found a shrine with no body in it (how does that constitute a 'tomb' exactly? :confusedshrug: ) in a site that was built 4-500 years after the man supposedly lived?

EDIT- That bread stamp pic you posted is from the 6th Century. You do know what contemporaneous means, right?

C'mon Son :coleman:

[Lebron23]

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]Yup, just like how they found Noah's Ark, right?

From the first article you linked:

[INDENT]D

[DonDadda59]

Back in the day they also removed some of the Apostles bodies from their original tombs. They wanted to protect it from some grave robbers, and vandals.

They also did the same thing to St. Peter and St. Paul's Tombs.

Or... or... they never existed so there was no body to remove or even put in a tomb :D

[Quizno]

Back in the day they also removed some of the Apostles bodies from their original tombs. They wanted to protect it from some grave robbers, and vandals.

They also did the same thing to St. Peter and St. Paul's Tombs.
that's pretty convenient, wouldn't you say?

[Lebron23]

Stuff is still pretty amazing.

[Lebron23]

that's pretty convenient, wouldn't you say?

Josephus and Tacitus wrote about the historical Jesus. Both of them were non Christians. Jesus existed, and he was executed by the Romans. Even Pontius Pilate was a historical figure. The discovery of the Pilate Stones was a great archeological discovery in 1961.

[Lebron23]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82WRAhDmJaA&fbclid=IwAR3Ssh1rz1i9jXEO3vLkSENK59D4d9xejWD4DI23B 0f-kn_Gx26G50G7pHM

IRAQ: TOWER OF BABEL SECRETS REVEALED

[Chick Stern]

Josephus and Tacitus wrote about the historical Jesus. Both of them were non Christians. Jesus existed, and he was executed by the Romans. Even Pontius Pilate was a historical figure. The discovery of the Pilate Stones was a great archeological discovery in 1961.
Both of their writing show strong evidence of forgery. It is undeniable.
Josephus has clearly been forged, and Tacitus only writes of a Messiah.
They also lived long after the events in question.
The Roman Empire literally documented EVERYTHING, and did so extensively.
To claim that a resurrection of jesus and others occurred, and that NONE of it was independently documented is just completely unbelievable.
An event that would have been the most incredible thing to ever occur, and not a single document of it.
Hmmmmm.

[JBSptfn]

Both of their writing show strong evidence of forgery. It is undeniable.
Josephus has clearly been forged, and Tacitus only writes of a Messiah.
They also lived long after the events in question.
The Roman Empire literally documented EVERYTHING, and did so extensively.
To claim that a resurrection of jesus and others occurred, and that NONE of it was independently documented is just completely unbelievable.
An event that would have been the most incredible thing to ever occur, and not a single document of it.
Hmmmmm.

Uh, I don't think Josephus nor Tacitus were forged:

http://www.bede.org.uk/Josephus.htm

https://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/tacitus/index.htm

Atheists still try to put that out there, just like the BS about the Piso Family and the Zeitgeist.

[Chick Stern]

Uh, I don't think Josephus nor Tacitus were forged:

http://www.bede.org.uk/Josephus.htm

https://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/tacitus/index.htm

Atheists still try to put that out there, just like the BS about the Piso Family and the Zeitgeist.
My apologies - Tacitus was the obvious forgery, and even then does not name anybody, just a messiah. Josephus’ writing is not consistent, indicating multiple authors.

Clearly forged.
https://64.media.tumblr.com/3aee5797300988fd2cd7ae1c259e0a02/475f82c366f58297-2d/s500x750/e4e88f2f050369af9982287f61dd5423a865d1cb.jpg

I’m going to skip your links - two links directly tied to catholic church believers - not exactly unbiased examinations.
First I have heard of the Piso theory. Interesting, but unlikely. Zeitgeist contains some intriguing items.

and atheist is a term used by the religious.

[Lebron23]

Good discussions so far no name calling etc.

[n00bie]

Wouldn't finding archaeological sites and artifacts just prove that the bible was written by men and god was created by men?

Just means the bible was thousands of years old but the earth is millions of years old.

Does this mean god only existed a couple thousand years ago?

[JBSptfn]

My apologies - Tacitus was the obvious forgery, and even then does not name anybody, just a messiah. Josephus’ writing is not consistent, indicating multiple authors.

Clearly forged.
https://64.media.tumblr.com/3aee5797300988fd2cd7ae1c259e0a02/475f82c366f58297-2d/s500x750/e4e88f2f050369af9982287f61dd5423a865d1cb.jpg

I’m going to skip your links - two links directly tied to catholic church believers - not exactly unbiased examinations.
First I have heard of the Piso theory. Interesting, but unlikely. Zeitgeist contains some intriguing items.

and atheist is a term used by the religious.

Here is a link from someone that isn't catholic:

http://www.doxa.ws/Jesus_pages/HistJesus3.html

Also, here is his link on Tacitus:

http://www.doxa.ws/Jesus_pages/HistJesus4.html

[Doomsday Dallas]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l8QUQIEeH8