What is the argument for Dirk being better than Blake?

[CMsam]

I'm sure a lot of people here would feel compelled to automatically give Dirk the nod in a comparison between he and Blake Griffin, simply out of seniority. Sort of like how the writers gave Kobe that MVP award because they knew it was his last chance to get one, even tho Lebron was already the clear MVP.

But I'd like to hear the argument that Dirk is a better player right now than Blake Griffin.

Here's the stats:

Dirk: 24.1 pts (54%), 7.4 rbs, 2.4 ast,
Blake 21.5 pts (52%), 12.4 rbs, 3.2 ast

If you equate rebounds to being worth one point (50% chance you score on the new possession) and assists to being 2 points, Griffin contributes about 4 more points per game.

Of course, stats aren't everything. So if someone can "use their words" to describe what makes Dirk a better player right now, I'm very curious to hear the argument. Defensively, they are about equal. Please do not use team record in your argument, or your argument will be shitty. Dirk plays with the likes of Jason Kidd, Shawn Marion, Jason Terry, Tyson Chandler, Caron Butler, and has a coach with far more experience. The Clippers frequently field an entire starting lineup of players under 23, coached by a guy in his 3rd year on the bench.

So explain to me how Dirk can be an MVP frontrunner, and Blake Griffin won't even make the all-star game? Is there ANY reason other than seniority and 'politics?' Lettuce discuss.

[branslowski]

And it begins...

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

The OIAD of Blake Griffin :bowdown: :bowdown:

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

30 Pages at least

[chris2010]

Had a brain fart for a second and thought someone was talking about steve blake when i looked at the thread title lol i was about to flip on someone.

I guess what makes dirk better is the fact that he has range.

[Stuckey]

dirk plays against better defense i suppose

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

dirk plays against better defense i suppose
lolwut?

[Walduś]

life is unfair

[CMsam]

I guess what makes dirk better is the fact that he has range.

Ok, but Griffin rebounds much better, has better post moves, and passes and handles better. What makes Dirk's range more valuable than Griffin's qualities? Explain.

[CMsam]

life is unfair


i know. sorry you drew the short straw.

[elementally morale]

2 more years

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

I wanna see what some people are gonna say

[Penny37]

Dirk puts those stats up on a contending team as the primary scorer.
Teams plan their defensive strategy around Dirk.
You can go to Dirk for a basket during crunch time, can't say the same about Griffin.


Putting up 20 and 10 on a championship level team is VERY different from putting up the same stats on a lottery bound team.

[novocaine]

Just imagine to replace Dirk with Griffin.....

at least 10 wins less in regular season.

[chris2010]

Ok, but Griffin rebounds much better, has better post moves, and passes and handles better. What makes Dirk's range more valuable than Griffin's qualities? Explain.

man idk im a fan of 1 LA team lol the other just needs to disappear or relocate. But as far as the rebounding goes, Dirk averages less b/c he has a lot of other good rebounders on the team. Jason Kidd is one of the best ever rebounding guards, Tyson Chandler is great at it, Shawn marion may still be good at it idk. so yeah

Maybe what it is is that Dirk has proven he can lead a team out of the basement of the nba, and Griffin is still working on it. But I hear people compare griffin to Karl Malone all the time

[gts]

dirks been doing his thing for 12 years, griffin has been doing his for 12 weeks

[CMsam]

Dirk puts those stats up on a contending team as the primary scorer.
Teams plan their defensive strategy around Dirk.
You can go to Dirk for a basket during crunch time, can't say the same about Griffin.


Putting up 20 and 10 on a championship level team is VERY different from putting up the same stats on a lottery bound team.


ok, so actually comparing the two as individuals is too difficult and complex for you, so you're just going to say "umm, dirk plays with better players so he's the betterer play3r!"

[CMsam]

dirks been doing his thing for 12 years, griffin has been doing his for 12 weeks


i specifically instructed you NOT to make shitty arguments, and you have defied me. shame be unto you.

[Showtime]

I love how I'm called a dirk hater and I never even start these kinds of threads.

[LilBTheBasedGod]

Blake is my favorite player, but right now Dirk is just better and more important to his team. Simple as that. Dirk is more efficient too. But Blake has more potential.

[Penny37]

ok, so actually comparing the two as individuals is too difficult and complex for you, so you're just going to say "umm, dirk plays with better players so he's the betterer play3r!"
Nowhere in my post did I say that Dirk is better cuz he has better teammates.
Go back to grade school.

[CMsam]

So far, nobody has actually compared the two as players or provided actual analysis of their games.

It's just been "Dirk is on a better team, Dirk has played longer."

Thus the point is made.

The one good thing about a website full of idiots is that they usually just go ahead and prove your point for you.

[gts]

i specifically instructed you NOT to make shitty arguments, and you have defied me. shame be unto you.
lol.. when griffin puts even 2 complete seasons together then there is something to talk about but right now he's just a rookie putting up good numbers being the best player on a crappy team...

no bashing on griffin but we've seen how many players have big seasons in their first year only to fall off the map as their careers go forward, the league is littered with them..
you can't compare a player like dirk who has been one of the best in the league year after year to a guy who has had a good 12 week run in his first season...

if you're going to solicit folks opinions and define such a narrow talking band then don't make a thread, it's like asking what's the best ice cream but you can't talk about anything but chocolate

[CMsam]

lol.. when griffin puts even 2 complete seasons together then there is something to talk about but right now he's just a rookie putting up good numbers being the best player on a crappy team...

no bashing on griffin but we've seen how many players have big seasons in their first year only to fall off the map as their careers go forward, the league is littered with them..
you can't compare a player like dirk who has been one of the best in the league year after year to a guy who has had a good 12 week run in his first season...


Dude, the question is who is a better player right now? The question isn't who's been playing at a high level for 12 years?

Can you actually say something about HOW THEY PLAY that makes an argument for Dirk? If not.........then what are you doing here? Your lazy cliche's aren't welcome in my thread. Do some thinking and articulating or G.T.F.O.

[BEAST Griffin]

I love how I'm called a dirk hater and I never even start these kinds of threads.

That's probably because you're always in them. I always see you in Dirk threads.

But hey, I know how enjoyable it is when fans of a particular player despise you for repeatedly pointing out that player's deficiencies.

[Penny37]

So far, nobody has actually compared the two as players or provided actual analysis of their games.

It's just been "Dirk is on a better team, Dirk has played longer."

Thus the point is made.

The one good thing about a website full of idiots is that they usually just go ahead and prove your point for you.
I'm not exactly sure what it is you wanna hear.
Dirk has better handles. Dirk is more clutch. Dirk has more weapons. He can go outside-inside. Dirk reads double teams as well as anyone in the League.

[QuebecBaller]

I'll make you happy : Blake Griffin is the best PF we ever seen. Forget Dirk, Duncan, Sir Charles, Karl Malone, Garnett... In 3 months, Blake already shown us that he is the best. I think he's already in the top 5 of the best players of all-time

Not in order
Jordan
Magic
Bird
Kareem
Griffin

Are you gonna sleep well now?

[gts]

I'm not exactly sure what it is you wanna hear.
Dirk has better handles. Dirk is more clutch. Dirk has more weapons. He can go outside-inside. Dirk reads double teams as well as anyone in the League.
it's starface the clippers fan, he wants you to say griffin is the better player RIGHT NOW! he wants to skip what the players actually bring to the table in experience and how the other teams play them and judge on griffins 12 weeks in the NBA alone, playing on a team nobody even scouts. vs dirk who plays on a contender as the lead option and the main focus teams try and defend...

so either bow down to blake or GTFO!

[Arti]

Dirk makes the game easier for his teammates. His range allows him to spread the floor and give everyone else more space to work. He is also better at creating his own shot. You can give the ball to him on the last possession of the game and trust him to be able to create a good look for himself. We can't say the same about Blake quite yet.

Lots of players can put up great numbers on bad teams (David Lee, Chris Bosh, etc.). Blake puts up impressive stats, but it hasn't proven to contribute to winning games yet. I believe Blake will someday be an elite, top 10 player in the league, perhaps much sooner than we think. Heck, he's already better than anyone would have probably predicted him to be. But he isn't there yet.

Some statistics:
Per 48 minutes, the Mavs score 115.3 points when Dirk is on the floor compared to 95.7 when he is off. The Clippers score 107.3 with Blake on, 101.2 with Blake off.

The Mavs give up 101.1 points with Dirk is on, 109.6 with Dirk off. Clippers give up 111.5 with Blake on, 105.5 with Blake off.

[Al Thornton]

man idk im a fan of 1 LA team lol the other just needs to disappear or relocate.

thats kind of harsh. lakers have a lot of fans, and won the last two championships.

[chris2010]

thats kind of harsh. lakers have a lot of fans, and won the last two championships.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[CMsam]

I'm not exactly sure what it is you wanna hear.
Dirk has better handles. Dirk is more clutch. Dirk has more weapons. He can go outside-inside. Dirk reads double teams as well as anyone in the League.

Dirk has better handles and passes better? So why is Griffin averaging an entire extra assist per game? Also, I don't know that I've ever seen Dirk grab a rebound and take it coast to coast to the rim. Griffin does it at least once per game. He's a lot stronger and more aggressive in the paint, which is the most important area.

Seriously, FIVE more rebounds per game, and an extra assist? You consider that less valuable than the 2.5 points per game advantage Dirk has?

As far as clutch, Griffin has already proven VERY clutch. He's not even a three point shooter and he's made 4 of the 6 he's been forced to take in desperate situations. You kiddin me? He's also hit some clutch long-two's and been reliable in the post down the stretch. Besides just SCORING which is apparently all some people can see, he grabs big time rebounds in big time situations. Dude is a straight up warrior.

There is really no way to actually compare their GAMES (and again, not use lazy cliche's, strawmen, and arguments of 'seniority') to explain Dirk as being better than Blake. Besides, look at the stats. What is there to argue??

[dallaslonghorn]

Field goal percentage.

[chris2010]

Dirk has better handles and passes better? So why is Griffin averaging an entire extra assist per game? Also, I don't know that I've ever seen Dirk grab a rebound and take it coast to coast to the rim. Griffin does it at least once per game. He's a lot stronger and more aggressive in the paint, which is the most important area.

Seriously, FIVE more rebounds per game, and an extra assist? You consider that less valuable than the 2.5 points per game advantage Dirk has?

As far as clutch, Griffin has already proven VERY clutch. He's not even a three point shooter and he's made 4 of the 6 he's been forced to take in desperate situations. You kiddin me? He's also hit some clutch long-two's and been reliable in the post down the stretch. Besides just SCORING which is apparently all some people can see, he grabs big time rebounds in big time situations. Dude is a straight up warrior.

There is really no way to actually compare their GAMES (and again, not use lazy cliche's, strawmen, and arguments of 'seniority') to explain Dirk as being better than Blake. Besides, look at the stats. What is there to argue??

Dirk has better teammates who do more of the work for him lol enjoy:violin:

[gts]

dirk's david hasselhoff collection>>>blakes

[jstern]

ok, so actually comparing the two as individuals is too difficult and complex for you, so you're just going to say "umm, dirk plays with better players so he's the betterer play3r!"
I think you

[CMsam]

it's starface the clippers fan, he wants you to say griffin is the better player RIGHT NOW! he wants to skip what the players actually bring to the table in experience and how the other teams play them and judge on griffins 12 weeks in the NBA alone, playing on a team nobody even scouts. vs dirk who plays on a contender as the lead option and the main focus teams try and defend...

so either bow down to blake or GTFO!


first of all, nobody scouts anybody in the regular season. if they did, dont you think people would have caught on to blake after the first week and started to "scout" him the same way they "scout" dirk??? so how come griffin's play hasn't dropped off one bit? it's a bogus argument you're trying to create so that you can stay on the side you WANT to stay on, rather than just being objective.

also, dirk is the lead option what? rebounder? defender? oh, scorer. thats right, you think scoring is the only part of the game because you're one of thsoe fans that needs simplicity. each team has one "star" that carries the team, and nobody else matters, and who the star is will be determined by the highest scorer, and whichever team wins, that means their star was better. fans like you with low intellect are what cause the quality of the product to be inferior, becuase you'll buy whatever the league, espn, nike, gatorade etc. is sellin you. you dont have a brain.

Dirk scores 2.5 more points per game (playing with jason kidd) but grabs FIVE less rebounds and one less assist, but that's ok because he's the lead option scorer!

[LastChanceToWin]

Dirk plays on a winning team you freaking moron.

[Walduś]

but but dirk has a mvp trophy :pimp:

[CMsam]

I think you’re in denial mode, because you badly want Griffin to be better.

No I don't. That's what you're all misunderstanding.

I don't care if everyone thinks Dirk is better.......IF Dirk IS better!

I want the truth (you cant handle the truth), and I want good discussion and I will let the chips fall where they may.

Seriously, I've been on a couple Clipper boards and got shredded for saying there is no way Eric Gordon is an all star. Because he's not. He still lacks awareness, can be a ball-stopper, is turnover prone and makes boneheaded moves down the stretch in addition to good moves.

I also think Chris Kaman is one of the worst centers in the league.

I don't want everyone to like Griffin because he's a Clipper. Trust me, I don't care. But comparing Blake vs Dirk illustrates an example of people just going off lazy perception, without being able to explain WHY they believe what they do. Hence the thread. And so far nobody can do it.

[Clutch]

I'll make you happy : Blake Griffin is the best PF we ever seen. Forget Dirk, Duncan, Sir Charles, Karl Malone, Garnett... In 3 months, Blake already shown us that he is the best. I think he's already in the top 5 of the best players of all-time

Not in order
Jordan
Magic
Bird
Kareem
Griffin

Are you gonna sleep well now?
+1

[gts]

[QUOTE=jstern]I think you

[Papaya Petee]

"Is this some sort of a sick joke ?" - Yung D-Will

[CMsam]

Typical masses of dumb pawns.

They both play POWER forward, and tho Griffin averages FIVE more rebounds per game (!!!!) as well as an extra assist per game, "dirk is better because he played for teh 12 years and scores 2.5 more points and um his teammates are better!"

look at the dumb comments in this thread:

"Blake can't create his own shot" - someone who has not watched the clippers

"Blake hasn't shown he's clutch yet" - someone who hasn't watched the clippers

"Dirks team is winning" - someone dumber than a goldfish


Griffin is playing ridiculously good. 21.5 points, 12.4 rebounds, 3.2 assists. If he WERENT a rookie, everyone would be saying he should be an all-star! But because he's a rookie, people are afraid to proclaim him better than a vet.

Yep. It's just like when Kobe got that lifetime achievement MVP when Lebron was clearly the best player in the league. A bunch of cowards and appeasers. The whole lot of ya's!

[gts]

Typical masses of dumb pawns.

They both play POWER forward, and tho Griffin averages FIVE more rebounds per game (!!!!) as well as an extra assist per game, "dirk is better because he played for teh 12 years and scores 2.5 more points and um his teammates are better!"

look at the dumb comments in this thread:

"Blake can't create his own shot" - someone who has not watched the clippers

"Blake hasn't shown he's clutch yet" - someone who hasn't watched the clippers

"Dirks team is winning" - someone dumber than a goldfish


Griffin is playing ridiculously good. 21.5 points, 12.4 rebounds, 3.2 assists. If he WERENT a rookie, everyone would be saying he should be an all-star! But because he's a rookie, people are afraid to proclaim him better than a vet.

Yep. It's just like when Kobe got that lifetime achievement MVP when Lebron was clearly the best player in the league. A bunch of cowards and appeasers. The whole lot of ya's!you still have yet to address blake's pathetic david hasselhoff collection

[creepingdeath]

I love how I'm called a dirk hater and I never even start these kinds of threads.
The OP puts you to shame, gotta step up your hating game. :lol

[tpols]

Kevin Love 20/16/2 on 45%
Tim Duncan 20/11 on 50% *the year he led the spurs to their third ring

I guess Kevin Love is better than prime duncan going by your rebounds to points equation and thus is better right?
:facepalm

There are MANY flaws in your argument.

First off, you're using a 30 something game sample for a comparison when the person you're comparing blake to has demonstrated one of the most important parts of the game: CONSISTENCY.

Secondly, blake plays on a GARBAGE team and most of his stats come in garbage time when his team is getting blown out.

Thirdly, blake is not even the main man on the clippers team. They don't run their offense through him and teams don't gameplan against him specifically like they do other superstars.

And fourthly, Blake scores as a result of his athleticism and hustle plays. Blake has never led his team down the stretch when they needed buckets to win. Dirk has and is always called upon in the clutch to go iso and get his team the Ws.

*Dirk is a better passer, infinintely better go-to scorer and main option, is much clutcher, and plays MUCH better help and man defense. This is just a case of a retard blindly using stats without putting them into any context whatsoever.

Right now.. blake griffin's stats are equivalent to what david lee was putting up with the knicks last year...

[chazzy]

Statistically Dirk is actually a far more efficient scorer than Griffin. Dirk takes and makes more 3s and Griffin is an awful FT shooter. It's a pretty decent gap in that regard. Blake is easily a better rebounder so far. I prefer Dirk's defense, Blake's instincts aren't that great and Dirk is a bigger and longer player. Also, Dirk has better overall IQ on both sides of the court, in terms of decision making with the ball and help defense. The fallacy is that you're using basic averages through 30 games without accounting for context. Statistically you could say Griffin's better than Pau. Zbo was comparable last year too.

[Al Thornton]

First off, you're using a 30 something game sample for a comparison when the person you're comparing blake to has demonstrated one of the most important parts of the game: CONSISTENCY.

Secondly, blake plays on a GARBAGE team and most of his stats come in garbage time when his team is getting blown out.

Thirdly, blake is not even the main man on the clippers team. They don't run their offense through him and teams don't gameplan against him specifically like they do other superstars.

And fourthly, Blake scores as a result of his athleticism and hustle plays. Blake has never led his team down the stretch when they needed buckets to win. Dirk has and is always called upon in the clutch to go iso and get his team the Ws.

*Dirk is a better passer, infinintely better go-to scorer and main option, is much clutcher, and plays MUCH better help and man defense. This is just a case of a retard blindly using stats without putting them into any context whatsoever.

Right now.. blake griffin's stats are equivalent to what david lee was putting up with the knicks last year...

worst post of the year, you want me to get you the certificate signed by jeff? congratulations.

[Rose]

worst post of the year, you want me to get you the certificate signed by jeff? congratulations.
HEY he has 364 days to top that!

[M.V.P]

Kevin Love 20/16/2 on 45%
Tim Duncan 20/11 on 50% *the year he led the spurs to their third ring

I guess Kevin Love is better than prime duncan going by your rebounds to points equation and thus is better right?
:facepalm

There are MANY flaws in your argument.

First off, you're using a 30 something game sample for a comparison when the person you're comparing blake to has demonstrated one of the most important parts of the game: CONSISTENCY.

Secondly, blake plays on a GARBAGE team and most of his stats come in garbage time when his team is getting blown out.

Thirdly, blake is not even the main man on the clippers team. They don't run their offense through him and teams don't gameplan against him specifically like they do other superstars.

And fourthly, Blake scores as a result of his athleticism and hustle plays. Blake has never led his team down the stretch when they needed buckets to win. Dirk has and is always called upon in the clutch to go iso and get his team the Ws.

*Dirk is a better passer, infinintely better go-to scorer and main option, is much clutcher, and plays MUCH better help and man defense. This is just a case of a retard blindly using stats without putting them into any context whatsoever.

Right now.. blake griffin's stats are equivalent to what david lee was putting up with the knicks last year...
Almost everything in this post is wrong. I'm sorry to sound like a jerk, but none of the stuff you typed actually happens in games. Griffins stats don't come during blowouts, because Clippers lose down the stretch more often, as opposed to being blown out. Secondly, the Clippers do run their offense through Griffin for most of the game. That's why he often gets 10+ points in the first quarter, because they go to him often to start the game. Thirdly, Blake has excellent touch around the rim, and he's very agile and his footwork is good as well. He's a smooth player and has decent touch, and his shooting form is excellent, showing it has a lot of room for improvement. The Clippers lose games more as a result of bad decision making down the stretch, but they're always in most of their games.

With all that said, the OP's points are all bad too. Dirk is an MVP caliber player, while Griffin is just a fantastic rookie. Amazing yes, but compared to rookies.

[tripledouble32]

first 30 games of their careers: griffin > dirk

but griffin's next 12 years vs dirk? we will see. some of dirk's achievements: all-nba teams, mvp, 3rd best scorer of the decade (2000 - 2009), 50%-40%-90% season, 100+ blocks & 100+ threes in one season etc.

atm dirk is

the go-to-guy for the mavs
one of the most efficient scorers
one of the best clutch players (95%+ FT in the 4th quarter, further sick stats according to 82games.com)
leading the nba in plus-minus for whatever it is worth
playing on a winning team that loses without him

and he has missed less games in his entire career than griffin in his first year (cheap shot maybe, but also a fact)


some notable players with even larger samples of games who faded away (sometimes due to injury):

shawn kemp
mcdyess
penny
marbury
francis
roy

30 games is way too early to judge

[Al Thornton]

HEY he has 364 days to top that!

avy bet for 2012 that that post will not be topped.

[KB2clutch]

WTF we're dealing with a noob, dirk>>>>>>>griffin, i dont care what you say, prove me wrong OP... come at me bro

[CMsam]

WTF we're dealing with a noob, dirk>>>>>>>griffin, i dont care what you say, prove me wrong OP... come at me bro

how bout i come on you and then we'll watch Leno.

[Animism]

how bout i come on you and then we'll watch Leno.


Haha the only post worth anything in this thread

[Darius]

Dirk is still better than Griffin.

Offensively, Dirk spaces the floor better for his teammates and creates more offensive opportunities for them as well due to his scoring prowess, both real and imagined (by the opposing coach/team). He gets consistently double teamed and consistently makes the other team pay. Dirk has also shown an ability to close out games by creating his own shot in the 4th.

Defensively I'd argue Dirk is better than Griffin. He plays better positional defense at this point... both aren't much man vs. man in the post (except Griffin is pretty damn good at hedging screens and playing perimeter D).

Griffin's rebounding is his edge but it doesn't overcome Dirk's ability to consistently get his team better shots.

I think in a year or two Griffin will surpass him... but Dirk is declining too.

[qrich]

Whether Griffin is better or not (some might say he is, others say not), Dirk has done more in the league while Blake is just a rookie.

[yeaaaman]

What I wanna know is do people other than the thread creator actually think Griffin is better than Dirk?

[PurpleChuck]

So far Blake can't touch Dirk. Has nothing on him other than dunks.

[Arti]

Besides, look at the stats. What is there to argue??
Reposting this because it seems to have gone unnoticed.

Per 48 minutes, the Mavs score 115.3 points when Dirk is on the floor compared to 95.7 when he is off. The Clippers score 107.3 with Blake on, 101.2 with Blake off.

The Mavs give up 101.1 points with Dirk is on, 109.6 with Dirk off. Clippers give up 111.5 with Blake on, 105.5 with Blake off.

Therefore, Dirk is responsible for a net 28.1 points per 48 minutes. Blake Griffin is responsible for a net 0.2 points, and his team is actually worse defensively when he is on the floor.

This is 2011, bring something better to the table besides ppg and rpg if you want to talk statistics.

[thomaspynchon]

Ok, but Griffin rebounds much better, has better post moves, and passes and handles better. What makes Dirk's range more valuable than Griffin's qualities? Explain.

Nothing you said is true expect that grifffin is a bit better rebounder due to age.

[Lebron23]

Blake Griffin is currently the NBA Flavor of the month on Insidehoops. But you guys needs to start respecting one of the greatest Power Forwards in NBA History.

Dirk Nowitzki > Blake Griffin. Dirk Nowitzki was a top 3 MVP Candidate before he got injured.

[alenleomessi]

Blake Griffin is the best player after LeBron James

I dont give a f*uck what others say

And he is going to be the best PF ever

Suck it haters, the truth hurts

[alenleomessi]

Kevin Love 20/16/2 on 45%
Tim Duncan 20/11 on 50% *the year he led the spurs to their third ring

I guess Kevin Love is better than prime duncan going by your rebounds to points equation and thus is better right?
:facepalm

There are MANY flaws in your argument.

First off, you're using a 30 something game sample for a comparison when the person you're comparing blake to has demonstrated one of the most important parts of the game: CONSISTENCY.

Secondly, blake plays on a GARBAGE team and most of his stats come in garbage time when his team is getting blown out.

Thirdly, blake is not even the main man on the clippers team. They don't run their offense through him and teams don't gameplan against him specifically like they do other superstars.

And fourthly, Blake scores as a result of his athleticism and hustle plays. Blake has never led his team down the stretch when they needed buckets to win. Dirk has and is always called upon in the clutch to go iso and get his team the Ws.

*Dirk is a better passer, infinintely better go-to scorer and main option, is much clutcher, and plays MUCH better help and man defense. This is just a case of a retard blindly using stats without putting them into any context whatsoever.

Right now.. blake griffin's stats are equivalent to what david lee was putting up with the knicks last year...
Kill yourself right now, u cant get more worse that this

[bdreason]

The only thing Griffin is better than Dirk at is dunking and rebounding.

[Z0mgZ0rs]

When you talk about an MVP, team record is surely one of the most important aspects. Even looking at stats you have to look at team record. Are you getting stats in garbage time? If you're on a losing team, you're going to be playing the other team's bench players a whole lot more. I guarantee you that Blake Griffin plays the other team's bench players more than Dirk, but Dirk plays the starters more than Blake.
To start, the Mavs are contenders and the Clippers are in the lottery.

Next, simply looking at FG% is not a good way to determine a player's efficiency. Dirk is shooting 40% from the 3 point line. He's also shooting 88% from the charity stripe. When you factor those two in, Dirk's TS% is 63% while Blake's is 55%. This difference is because Blake doesn't shoot 3s and he is poor from the FT line (59%).

You should also consider Blake Griffin plays 1.5 more minutes per game than Dirk. Also, the Clippers' pace is 1 more possession higher than the Mavs. While these might seem miniscule, when you adjust the numbers (so that pace is at 91.9 & minutes is at 36), Dirk is at 24.9 PPG while Blake remains at 20.9 PPG.

Blake Griffin also fouls more, has more turnovers and less blocks. Sure, a lot of this is very small, but over the course of a long season they add up.

To sum it up: Dirk shoots the ball a LOT better than Blake. Dirk's FG% is much higher despite him shooting mid range and 3 pointers at a much higher rate.
Dirk also shoots free throws almost 30% better. Free throws are obviously important because they add up, and you need them in the clutch. Blake Griffin only has a 34.2% chance of making 2 FT in a row. Dirk is at 77.3%.

[DeronMillsap]

Apples and oranges.

That said, I'd rather get beat by Dirk's jumpers than get my ass kicked by Griffin's dominance inside the paint. The kid destroyed Utah's front-court in all 3 games, a near 30-15 every time. He lost all games but it wasn't his fault. His team sucks.

If the Clippers start winning and become a playoff team, they're gonna be force to be reckoned with in the West. I can see Griffin being the PF version of Shaq's 1996-2004 run. Griffin is that unstoppable. He just needs to be a winner.

[Darius]

Reposting this because it seems to have gone unnoticed.

Per 48 minutes, the Mavs score 115.3 points when Dirk is on the floor compared to 95.7 when he is off. The Clippers score 107.3 with Blake on, 101.2 with Blake off.

The Mavs give up 101.1 points with Dirk is on, 109.6 with Dirk off. Clippers give up 111.5 with Blake on, 105.5 with Blake off.

Therefore, Dirk is responsible for a net 28.1 points per 48 minutes. Blake Griffin is responsible for a net 0.2 points, and his team is actually worse defensively when he is on the floor.

This is 2011, bring something better to the table besides ppg and rpg if you want to talk statistics.

This is not a good use of statistics.

Clippers are a losing team with a negative points differential and Griffin plays the most minutes on the team.

Of course his "impact" on points made/allowed is going to be negative.

[CMsam]

This is not a good use of statistics.

Clippers are a losing team with a negative points differential and Griffin plays the most minutes on the team.

Of course his "impact" on points made/allowed is going to be negative.

Plus teh Clippers are ALWAYS in close games, whereas the Mavs have blowouts where Nowitzi is sitting and the other team is "coming back" by putting up points in garbage time.

Seriously, is anyone watching the Clippers-Hawks game right now??? You'd really rather have Jumpshootin' Dirk Nowitzki over MegaMan Blake Griffin??? GTFO.

[Arti]

This is not a good use of statistics.

Clippers are a losing team with a negative points differential and Griffin plays the most minutes on the team.

Of course his "impact" on points made/allowed is going to be negative.
I don't think you understand. Let me make it clearer for you.

With Dirk: +14.3 points
Without Dirk: -15.8 points

With Griffin: -4.2 points
Without Griffin: -4.4 points

As you said, Griffin is going to have a negative differential no matter what because the Clippers are bad. I am not comparing his impact when in the game (-4.2) to Nowitzki's (+14.3). I am looking strictly at what happens to their own teams when they are taken out. Clearly, the Clippers do not lose nearly as much as when Dirk is taken out. Even if the difference between Dirk and Griffin is not as extreme as these numbers show, it's still quite substantial.

[Arti]

Plus teh Clippers are ALWAYS in close games, whereas the Mavs have blowouts where Nowitzi is sitting and the other team is "coming back" by putting up points in garbage time.

Seriously, is anyone watching the Clippers-Hawks game right now??? You'd really rather have Jumpshootin' Dirk Nowitzki over MegaMan Blake Griffin??? GTFO.
Have you discounted that Dirk is the one responsible for these blowouts you speak of? How awesome have the Mavericks looked this past week without him?

[LAClipsFan33]

The only thing Griffin is better than Dirk at is dunking and rebounding.

This.

And Blake is my favorite player

[DeronMillsap]

Apples and oranges.

That said, I'd rather get beat by Dirk's jumpers than get my ass kicked by Griffin's dominance inside the paint. The kid destroyed Utah's front-court in all 3 games, a near 30-15 every time. He lost all games but it wasn't his fault. His team sucks.

If the Clippers start winning and become a playoff team, they're gonna be force to be reckoned with in the West. I can see Griffin being the PF version of Shaq's 1996-2004 run. Griffin is that unstoppable. He just needs to be a winner.
Griffin might not be better than Dirk yet in the minds of most NBA fans but he is sure as hell the most feared PF in the league. Possibly, the most feared big man.

[rmt]

This thread is an insult to Dirk. Dirk has proven he can carry a team to the Finals, has been league MVP and is clutch. What has Blake done?

[thomaspynchon]

Griffin might not be better than Dirk yet in the minds of most NBA fans but he is sure as hell the most feared PF in the league. Possibly, the most feared big man.

When teams actually game plan for him he will be just a more athletic Amare.

[NBASTATMAN]

HAVE YOU SEEN DALLAS WITHOUT DIRK.... Dirk is the MVP...

[FF1]

There is this too:

http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/07/identifying-the-n-b-a-s-top-clutch-players/#more-8099

[FF1]

Dallas without Dirk looks like the Clippers with Griffin haha

[thomaspynchon]

Dallas without Dirk looks like the Clippers with Griffin haha

Sounds about right. Although I will say Griffin reminds me a lot of Dirkules in terms of the way he handles himself on the court. But give him a few years and some playoffs under his belt before making the comparisons. he can definitely eclipse Duncan, garnett, and Dirkules one day, in my opinion.

[FF1]

Sounds about right. Although I will say Griffin reminds me a lot of Dirkules in terms of the way he handles himself on the court. But give him a few years and some playoffs under his belt before making the comparisons. he can definitely eclipse Duncan, garnett, and Dirkules one day, in my opinion.

Career wise? I honestly doubt Duncan, just because Duncan already had his defensive instincts and Griffin can't compare to him there, but I completely believe that he can pass KG and Dirk if he stays healthy and keeps improving. I'm just saying we should tap the breaks on the comparisons this season (and probably next)

[DeronMillsap]

When teams actually game plan for him he will be just a more athletic Amare.
Good comparison. Neither guys can play defense.

[thomaspynchon]

Career wise? I honestly doubt Duncan, just because Duncan already had his defensive instincts and Griffin can't compare to him there, but I completely believe that he can pass KG and Dirk if he stays healthy and keeps improving. I'm just saying we should tap the breaks on the comparisons this season (and probably next)

Duncan is great but overrated in my opinion. he was rendered useless in a bunch of playoffs series...well not useless but he wasn't exactly great, he just happened to have the best supporting cast and coach.

[Lebron23]

Duncan is great but overrated in my opinion. he was rendered useless in a bunch of playoffs series...well not useless but he wasn't exactly great, he just happened to have the best supporting cast and coach.

I beg to disagree. Prime Tim Duncan was a great playoffs performer.

[ErhnamDjinn]

why the F@ck are you guys even entertaining this guys opinions he's obviously just trying to get reaction from you. Nothing to see here folks

[thomaspynchon]

I beg to disagree. Prime Tim Duncan was a great playoffs performer.

\Most of the time, yeah.

2002-2003 WCF vs the Mavs the Dirk-less Mavs ran him off the floor and he needed 80 year old Steve Kerr to win a game 6 they were getting crushed in.

[Semi]

I'm litterly crying right here. This topic has to be trolling. Even though I am a Dirk homer, Griffin right now isn't better than Duncan. You don't think Duncan could put up similar stats on a below 500. team like the Clippers. But the diffrence is Duncan could also bring this team to the playoffs with his experience and leadership, things which are very underated here. For Dirk counts the same, even though he is the best PF in the game right now and nobody can deny it because he is a MVP candidate who plays his best season even though he is a one time MVP. And what is your point, even when you are a stats homer you have to make a point for Dirk, and when you would watch the ****ing games, maybe, but only maybe because I think you are a little retarted, you wouldn't have started such a thread...
and the saddest thing right now is that I can't neg you (to OP)

[Laimbeer_Rodman]

So far, nobody has actually compared the two as players or provided actual analysis of their games.

It's just been "Dirk is on a better team, Dirk has played longer."

Thus the point is made.

The one good thing about a website full of idiots is that they usually just go ahead and prove your point for you.
you never actually watched those two players did you?

[EricForman]

I'm sure a lot of people here would feel compelled to automatically give Dirk the nod in a comparison between he and Blake Griffin, simply out of seniority. Sort of like how the writers gave Kobe that MVP award because they knew it was his last chance to get one, even tho Lebron was already the clear MVP.

But I'd like to hear the argument that Dirk is a better player right now than Blake Griffin.

Here's the stats:

Dirk: 24.1 pts (54%), 7.4 rbs, 2.4 ast,
Blake 21.5 pts (52%), 12.4 rbs, 3.2 ast

If you equate rebounds to being worth one point (50% chance you score on the new possession) and assists to being 2 points, Griffin contributes about 4 more points per game.

Of course, stats aren't everything. So if someone can "use their words" to describe what makes Dirk a better player right now, I'm very curious to hear the argument. Defensively, they are about equal. Please do not use team record in your argument, or your argument will be shitty. Dirk plays with the likes of Jason Kidd, Shawn Marion, Jason Terry, Tyson Chandler, Caron Butler, and has a coach with far more experience. The Clippers frequently field an entire starting lineup of players under 23, coached by a guy in his 3rd year on the bench.

So explain to me how Dirk can be an MVP frontrunner, and Blake Griffin won't even make the all-star game? Is there ANY reason other than seniority and 'politics?' Lettuce discuss.

Why can't we use team record when the Mavs were one of the best teams in the league (almost keeping up with the Spurs) with Dirk and have been what, 2-6 without him since?

I'm not even like a big Dirk fan, but dude has the best case for the MVP right now considering every other candidate has a big flaw in their case--except Dirk.

Read my first paragraph again. The Mavs were--SUPRRISINGLY--one of the top 3 teams in the entire league, and have fallen off drastically since Dirk's injury.

That says it all.

Blake is a great young player, but let's not get out of line, yeah?

[EricForman]

Dirk's been the #1 on what, like 10 straight 50+ win teams now? And this is in the ultra competitive WEST and he's gone through a significant supporting cast change. I mean, Dirk's been doing this against Webber Kings, Shaq/Kobe Lakers, Run n Gun Suns, Kobe/Pau Lakers...dude's been performing on a high level for A DECADE, and he still gets overlooked by many on ISH because flavors of the month.

I swear, Dirk's survive and beaten "Why is Dirk better than Arenas?", "Why is Dirk better than Yao?" "Why is Dirk better than Tmac" "Why is Dirk better than Brandon Roy" threads for 10 years now.

Let it go,people. Dirk is no Duncan or Kobe (in terms of ALL time greatness) but he's definitely in the pantheon of modern great players.

[asdf1990]

Dirk's been the #1 on what, like 10 straight 50+ win teams now? And this is in the ultra competitive WEST and he's gone through a significant supporting cast change. I mean, Dirk's been doing this against Webber Kings, Shaq/Kobe Lakers, Run n Gun Suns, Kobe/Pau Lakers...dude's been performing on a high level for A DECADE, and he still gets overlooked by many on ISH because flavors of the month.

I swear, Dirk's survive and beaten "Why is Dirk better than Arenas?", "Why is Dirk better than Yao?" "Why is Dirk better than Tmac" "Why is Dirk better than Brandon Roy" threads for 10 years now.

Let it go,people. Dirk is no Duncan or Kobe (in terms of ALL time greatness) but he's definitely in the pantheon of modern great players.

Rings, that's what it comes down to in the end. If dirk had one ring we wouldn't see all these topics.

[SsKSpurs21]

wow, i am no fan of the dallas mavericks, but the lack of respect for dirk is just ridiculous!

[EricForman]

Rings, that's what it comes down to in the end. If dirk had one ring we wouldn't see all these topics.

Rings should matter if we're comparing Dirk to guys with multiple or have been proven to be able to win. But Dirk gets no respect even against guys who not only haven't won rings, but haven't had as much success as Dirk period.

Dirk is routinely overlooked and underrated. I swear through the years I've seen Jermain Oneal is better than Dirk, Tmac is better than Dirk, Iverson is better than Dirk, Bosh is better than Dirk.

Rings are the ultimate qualifier, yes, but looking beyond that, sustained excellence should also count. I don't give a crap Nash has never been to the finals, he's led, like, four 60+ win teams and have been to the WCF four times with completely different casts--that's achievement still and should work in his favor should he ever be compared vs the Deron Williams or the Iversons or the Derrick Roses one day.

Same with Dirk, winning 50 two years straight is hard (just ask guys like Vince Carter or Melo or Penny or Iverson), let alone do it TEN STRAIGHT YEARS. And again--he's done it with totally different supporting casts now, including years like 2005 and 2008 which were supposed to be "lost, rebuilding years".

[FF1]

Dirk's been the #1 on what, like 10 straight 50+ win teams now? And this is in the ultra competitive WEST and he's gone through a significant supporting cast change. I mean, Dirk's been doing this against Webber Kings, Shaq/Kobe Lakers, Run n Gun Suns, Kobe/Pau Lakers...dude's been performing on a high level for A DECADE, and he still gets overlooked by many on ISH because flavors of the month.

I swear, Dirk's survive and beaten "Why is Dirk better than Arenas?", "Why is Dirk better than Yao?" "Why is Dirk better than Tmac" "Why is Dirk better than Brandon Roy" threads for 10 years now.

Let it go,people. Dirk is no Duncan or Kobe (in terms of ALL time greatness) but he's definitely in the pantheon of modern great players.

Great post! :cheers:

[Droid101]

When teams actually game plan for him he will be just a more athletic Amare.
You clearly don't watch Clipper games. Teams are sending double- and triple- teams the second he catches the ball anywhere on the floor.

Dirk actually has other people on his team who are deadly options, including the third leading three point shooter in the HISTORY OF THE LEAGUE.

[kentatm]

You clearly don't watch Clipper games. Teams are sending double- and triple- teams the second he catches the ball anywhere on the floor.

Dirk actually has other people on his team who are deadly options, including the third leading three point shooter in the HISTORY OF THE LEAGUE.

:facepalm

have you not ever seen what the Mavs look like without Dirk on the floor?

[thomaspynchon]

You clearly don't watch Clipper games. Teams are sending double- and triple- teams the second he catches the ball anywhere on the floor.

Dirk actually has other people on his team who are deadly options, including the third leading three point shooter in the HISTORY OF THE LEAGUE.

Kidd ****ing sucks. You ever watch him in the playoffs?

[HB40TheNextStar]

Well Blake is a back-up PG and Dirk is an all-star PF. Odd comparison if you ask me.

[creepingdeath]

You clearly don't watch Clipper games. Teams are sending double- and triple- teams the second he catches the ball anywhere on the floor.

Dirk actually has other people on his team who are deadly options, including the third leading three point shooter in the HISTORY OF THE LEAGUE.
Who is averaging a great sub-29FG% WITHOUT HIM (CAPSLOCK RULES AND MAKES YOUR ARGUMENT EVEN STRONGER... no.. actually, it doesn't). Deadly option, my ass.

[Thumdar]

Blake is my favorite player, but right now Dirk is just better and more important to his team. Simple as that. Dirk is more efficient too. But Blake has more potential.

I disagree. When Griffin goes out, the Clips begin to falter. Blake is equally as important as Dirk.

[Thumdar]

So far, nobody has actually compared the two as players or provided actual analysis of their games.

It's just been "Dirk is on a better team, Dirk has played longer."

Thus the point is made.

The one good thing about a website full of idiots is that they usually just go ahead and prove your point for you.

:applause: :roll:

[Zack Ryder]

Are you serious bro?

[Rose]

Are you serious bro?
I know bro!

[Zack Ryder]

I know bro!

hah! yeah bro! fist pump bro. u know it!

[Rose]

hah! yeah bro! fist pump bro. u know it!
bro fist pump bro! it's the ultimate bro.

[Droid101]

:facepalm

have you not ever seen what the Mavs look like without Dirk on the floor?
Have you seen what the Clips look like without Blake? See last season. :facepalm :facepalm


Who is averaging a great sub-29FG% WITHOUT HIM (CAPSLOCK RULES AND MAKES YOUR ARGUMENT EVEN STRONGER... no.. actually, it doesn't). Deadly option, my ass.
Whatever man, look at Kidd's three point percentage during his time with the Mavs. It's pretty good.

The point is, I don't really care who everyone thinks is better between the two. But the pro-Dirk people are missing a couple of key points is all.

[Monkey D Dragon]

Blake is not good enough where you can throw him the ball last position of the game to win.

[Thumdar]

bro fist pump bro! it's the ultimate bro.

Don't taze me bro!

[FF1]

Have you seen what the Clips look like without Blake? See last season. :facepalm :facepalm



umm....

Last year (without Griffin) the Clips were 29-53 aka .354 win percentage.

This year (with Griffin) the Clips are 13-24 aka .351 win percentage.


lol /end thread

[Fiasco]

umm....

Last year (without Griffin) the Clips were 29-53 aka .354 win percentage.

This year (with Griffin) the Clips are 13-24 aka .351 win percentage.


lol /end thread

Oh look, they put computers in care homes for retards.

[FF1]

Oh look, they put computers in care homes for retards.

I was told to look at how much worse the clips were without blake. I found out that the win % was very similar (in fact, a tiny bit better). It's not my fault the person's question pointed to the other side's opinion.

[Fiasco]

I was told to look at how much worse the clips were without blake. I found out that the win % was very similar (in fact, a tiny bit better). It's not my fault the person's question pointed to the other side's opinion.

You would of had a better argument if the season wasn't over.

[FF1]

You would of had a better argument if the season wasn't over.

Sure, the Clips could end up with a better record. just like they probably will next year.

I just thought it was odd timing to throw out the "just look how much worse they were without Blake last year" argument when they weren't. At least, yet.

[thomaspynchon]

Have you seen what the Clips look like without Blake? See last season. :facepalm :facepalm


Whatever man, look at Kidd's three point percentage during his time with the Mavs. It's pretty good.

The point is, I don't really care who everyone thinks is better between the two. But the pro-Dirk people are missing a couple of key points is all.

I am obsessed with Dirk and I stated already than Griffin can eclipse him. But to compare griffin to Dirk, who has been going twelve years now being pounded and double/tripled every single game, while still getting up 25 and 10 with ease, is just stupid.

[Droid101]

I am obsessed with Dirk and I stated already than Griffin can eclipse him. But to compare griffin to Dirk, who has been going twelve years now being pounded and double/tripled every single game, while still getting up 25 and 10 with ease, is just stupid.
As I said, if you think Dirk is better right now, that's fine. There is no criteria that will universally put one ahead of the other (pick one now for a chip? One now to build a team on? One now for his career accolades? One now for what they will do for the rest of their career, etc)


umm....

Last year (without Griffin) the Clips were 29-53 aka .354 win percentage.

This year (with Griffin) the Clips are 13-24 aka .351 win percentage.


lol /end thread
Whatever dude, after the dismal 1-13 start, they're looking pretty good (even you have to admit it).

[Bernie Nips]

They've gone 12-11 over their last 23 games. That's a significant improvement and hopefully they keep going. I like the Clippers, I like Blake.

[thomaspynchon]

They've gone 12-11 over their last 23 games. That's a significant improvement and hopefully they keep going. I like the Clippers, I like Blake.

It's not even like they have a bad team. Lots of young athletic guys, veterans like baron davis and rasual butler, a rising star in eric gordon--by his 3rd year Dirk led his squad to a historic upset over the jazz, and he was with a young nash and a decent Finley in a much stronger West.

[creepingdeath]

Whatever man, look at Kidd's three point percentage during his time with the Mavs. It's pretty good.
Which doesn't equate in Kidd being a "deadly weapon".

[EricForman]

ISH is just full of delusional overreacting kids who only remembers highlights and what happened last 2 games as opposed to watching basketball and understanding how the game works.

Dirk's team, was on pace for the 2nd or 3rd best record in the leauge with him, they were trailing only the Spurs and Celtics. Then Dirk goes out and suddenly they're faltering now.

It's a very simple logic, but some people on this board bring up the Clippers record? what?

Dirk's been the best player on good-to-great teams (won 50+) TEN STRAIGHT YEARS. TEN YEARS. With different supporitng casts and coaches and systems.

Think about that for a second. There aren't 10 other guys in the history of the league who's had as much regular season success as Dirk in a ten year span.

And no, saying he hasn't won it all won't work, not in an argument against Blake. In fact, considering only like, what, 30 or so guys have ever won titles as the #1 guy, there aren't many guys who can say "i did this, Dirk you can't do it you haven't done it".

Kids, please THINK before you post, yeah? Dirk is one of the all time greats here.

[yeaaaman]

ISH is just full of delusional overreacting kids who only remembers highlights and what happened last 2 games as opposed to watching basketball and understanding how the game works.

Dirk's team, was on pace for the 2nd or 3rd best record in the leauge with him, they were trailing only the Spurs and Celtics. Then Dirk goes out and suddenly they're faltering now.

It's a very simple logic, but some people on this board bring up the Clippers record? what?

Dirk's been the best player on good-to-great teams (won 50+) TEN STRAIGHT YEARS. TEN YEARS. With different supporitng casts and coaches and systems.

Think about that for a second. There aren't 10 other guys in the history of the league who's had as much regular season success as Dirk in a ten year span.

And no, saying he hasn't won it all won't work, not in an argument against Blake. In fact, considering only like, what, 30 or so guys have ever won titles as the #1 guy, there aren't many guys who can say "i did this, Dirk you can't do it you haven't done it".

Kids, please THINK before you post, yeah? Dirk is one of the all time greats here.

Honestly I was astonished when I saw this thread, had to ask if it was serious, and I come on to see its still around. I am at a loss for words with some of the things I see on ISH its really almost mind numbing.

[creepingdeath]

blablabla
Current Dirk is better than Griffin, too.

[JtotheIzzo]

lol at this thread and the f*cking toolshed who started it.

[creepingdeath]

Plus I'm from Germany and love sauerkraut so dirk is das besser!!!!!"

Exactly, my whole argumentation was based on that... sh*t, now you've got me. :(

[Arti]

I love how even still, EVEN STILL, the vast majority of people in this thread can't even make an actual comparison using words and examples that relate to their GAMES.

It's just "omg are you kidding me? dirk has did it for 12 years!!!!"

ok, ok you guys. i guess we all know that shaq is still better than dwight howard, cuz shaq has doing it for 15 years and dwight didnt win anything!


blake is absolutely shredding teams. so is dirk. the question is about who is a better player RIGHT NOW. Someone please tell me what makes Dirk the better player, without simply citing the fact that he won 60 games in the regular season in 2006. I mean seriously, are you that retarded? If you have a brain, use it. This thread doesn't say anything about Griffin being better than Dirk. Unbeknownst to the retards and fools that roam this site, two players CAN actually be about equal. But the question is, what is the argument that places Dirk definitively ahead of Griffin?


Problem is, this is what happens. People get these perceptions, and instead of using their brains to update themselves with knowledge, they just stick to the guns they're comfortable with and refuse to think critically about it. Obviously they don't even watch most players on most teams, so they just sit back and wait until the media gives them the go-ahead to think Griffin is up there with other superstars. Can't come out and believe something until you have safety in numbers, right?

"Oh, Dirk has been here long time, I can't say Blake is better! Blake is just a rookie, it wouldn't be right!"

Well, can you discuss their games and compare them and give reasons....

"Dirk's team won lots of games before! He's played for 12 years!"

Right, but Blake is playing incredibly well right now, their teams and seniority don't really mean anything in terms of comparison....

"No but dude, Dirk was in the playoffs in his 3rd year! Blake is just a rookie, you can't compare them!"

Ok, ISH. YOu are pretty much a down syndrome class.
There have been many legit comparisons between the two players that have either gotten ignored or "refuted" with an inane argument. Let's take a look:

Dirk supporter:
Dirk puts those stats up on a contending team as the primary scorer.
Teams plan their defensive strategy around Dirk.
You can go to Dirk for a basket during crunch time, can't say the same about Griffin.
Putting up 20 and 10 on a championship level team is VERY different from putting up the same stats on a lottery bound team.

The response:
ok, so actually comparing the two as individuals is too difficult and complex for you, so you're just going to say "umm, dirk plays with better players so he's the betterer play3r!"

Here, the Griffin homer purposely misconstrues the person's point and ignores everything about Dirk's reliability as a go-to crunch time scorer and the fact that teams have to game plan around him.

Dirk supporter:
I'm not exactly sure what it is you wanna hear.
Dirk has better handles. Dirk is more clutch. Dirk has more weapons. He can go outside-inside. Dirk reads double teams as well as anyone in the League.

The response:
Dirk has better handles and passes better? So why is Griffin averaging an entire extra assist per game? Also, I don't know that I've ever seen Dirk grab a rebound and take it coast to coast to the rim. Griffin does it at least once per game. He's a lot stronger and more aggressive in the paint, which is the most important area.

Seriously, FIVE more rebounds per game, and an extra assist? You consider that less valuable than the 2.5 points per game advantage Dirk has?

As far as clutch, Griffin has already proven VERY clutch. He's not even a three point shooter and he's made 4 of the 6 he's been forced to take in desperate situations. You kiddin me? He's also hit some clutch long-two's and been reliable in the post down the stretch. Besides just SCORING which is apparently all some people can see, he grabs big time rebounds in big time situations. Dude is a straight up warrior.

There is really no way to actually compare their GAMES (and again, not use lazy cliche's, strawmen, and arguments of 'seniority') to explain Dirk as being better than Blake. Besides, look at the stats. What is there to argue??

1) A big man's passing ability is not measured purely by assists, especially when an offense like the Mavs' is not designed for Dirk to rack up dimes.
2) Someone's ability to go coast-to-coast doesn't necessarily make him a better ball handler. The game is won in halfcourt sets, and Dirk's ability to iso and get any shot he wants with his ballhandling when the game slows down is much more important for winning games than Griffin running down the court and dunking.
3) Clutch stats (http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT11.HTM)

Dirk supporter:
Dirk makes the game easier for his teammates. His range allows him to spread the floor and give everyone else more space to work. He is also better at creating his own shot. You can give the ball to him on the last possession of the game and trust him to be able to create a good look for himself. We can't say the same about Blake quite yet.

Lots of players can put up great numbers on bad teams (David Lee, Chris Bosh, etc.). Blake puts up impressive stats, but it hasn't proven to contribute to winning games yet. I believe Blake will someday be an elite, top 10 player in the league, perhaps much sooner than we think. Heck, he's already better than anyone would have probably predicted him to be. But he isn't there yet.

Some statistics:
Per 48 minutes, the Mavs score 115.3 points when Dirk is on the floor compared to 95.7 when he is off. The Clippers score 107.3 with Blake on, 101.2 with Blake off.

The Mavs give up 101.1 points with Dirk is on, 109.6 with Dirk off. Clippers give up 111.5 with Blake on, 105.5 with Blake off.

The response:
There was no response because the Griffin homers couldn't come up with one, so they ignored this post.

Dirk supporter:
Statistically Dirk is actually a far more efficient scorer than Griffin. Dirk takes and makes more 3s and Griffin is an awful FT shooter. It's a pretty decent gap in that regard. Blake is easily a better rebounder so far. I prefer Dirk's defense, Blake's instincts aren't that great and Dirk is a bigger and longer player. Also, Dirk has better overall IQ on both sides of the court, in terms of decision making with the ball and help defense.

The response:
There was no response because the Griffin homers couldn't come up with one, so they ignored this post.

Dirk supporter:
Dirk is still better than Griffin.

Offensively, Dirk spaces the floor better for his teammates and creates more offensive opportunities for them as well due to his scoring prowess, both real and imagined (by the opposing coach/team). He gets consistently double teamed and consistently makes the other team pay. Dirk has also shown an ability to close out games by creating his own shot in the 4th.

Defensively I'd argue Dirk is better than Griffin. He plays better positional defense at this point... both aren't much man vs. man in the post (except Griffin is pretty damn good at hedging screens and playing perimeter D).

Griffin's rebounding is his edge but it doesn't overcome Dirk's ability to consistently get his team better shots.

The response:
There was no response because the Griffin homers couldn't come up with one, so they ignored this post.

Dirk supporter:
When you talk about an MVP, team record is surely one of the most important aspects. Even looking at stats you have to look at team record. Are you getting stats in garbage time? If you're on a losing team, you're going to be playing the other team's bench players a whole lot more. I guarantee you that Blake Griffin plays the other team's bench players more than Dirk, but Dirk plays the starters more than Blake.
To start, the Mavs are contenders and the Clippers are in the lottery.

Next, simply looking at FG% is not a good way to determine a player's efficiency. Dirk is shooting 40% from the 3 point line. He's also shooting 88% from the charity stripe. When you factor those two in, Dirk's TS% is 63% while Blake's is 55%. This difference is because Blake doesn't shoot 3s and he is poor from the FT line (59%).

You should also consider Blake Griffin plays 1.5 more minutes per game than Dirk. Also, the Clippers' pace is 1 more possession higher than the Mavs. While these might seem miniscule, when you adjust the numbers (so that pace is at 91.9 & minutes is at 36), Dirk is at 24.9 PPG while Blake remains at 20.9 PPG.

Blake Griffin also fouls more, has more turnovers and less blocks. Sure, a lot of this is very small, but over the course of a long season they add up.

To sum it up: Dirk shoots the ball a LOT better than Blake. Dirk's FG% is much higher despite him shooting mid range and 3 pointers at a much higher rate.
Dirk also shoots free throws almost 30% better. Free throws are obviously important because they add up, and you need them in the clutch. Blake Griffin only has a 34.2% chance of making 2 FT in a row. Dirk is at 77.3%.

The response:
There was no response because the Griffin homers couldn't come up with one, so they ignored this post.

See a trend here?

[jstern]

Reposting this because it seems to have gone unnoticed.

Per 48 minutes, the Mavs score 115.3 points when Dirk is on the floor compared to 95.7 when he is off. The Clippers score 107.3 with Blake on, 101.2 with Blake off.

The Mavs give up 101.1 points with Dirk is on, 109.6 with Dirk off. Clippers give up 111.5 with Blake on, 105.5 with Blake off.

Therefore, Dirk is responsible for a net 28.1 points per 48 minutes. Blake Griffin is responsible for a net 0.2 points, and his team is actually worse defensively when he is on the floor.

This is 2011, bring something better to the table besides ppg and rpg if you want to talk statistics.

For months I've been wanting to re read this, but couldn't find this thread. Perfect time to bump it.