Bill Russell vs Bill Walton (comparison as individual players)

[Penny_Hardaway]

This is a comparison considering talent, peak play and in resume: as basketball players, forget Walton`s injuries or the "winning championships" factor since we all know the circumstances surrounding both Russell and Walton.

I make this comparison because I think they are very close as individual players and the advantages or disadvantages one has on the other are very small or counter-balanced.

Lets read your opinions.

[jlauber]

This is a comparison considering talent, peak play and in resume: as basketball players, forget Walton`s injuries or the "winning championships" factor since we all know the circumstances surrounding both Russell and Walton.

I make this comparison because I think they are very close as individual players and the advantages or disadvantages one has on the other are very small or counter-balanced.

Lets read your opinions.

Interesting thread. I had the privilege of watching both of them play. IMHO, a healthy and prime Walton was a more efficient Russell, albeit, not as dominating defensively or as skilled a rebounder.

I have posted Walton's 44 point '73 NCAA Finals before, but for that did not view it, and who might be interested...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eECszAofPvE

It is a nine minute video showcasing his incredible 21-22 shooting, but his passing was equally as impressive.

Having said all of that, Russell's defense and rebounding may have been the best ever. TahRegul8r has posted some numbers on Russell's defensive impact before, and they were truly comparable to MJ's offensive impact. It was also interesting that Boston could replace HOFer Cousy with KC Jones, and not miss a beat.

IMHO, Russell was one of the all-time greatest (an argument could be made that with 11 rings, he WAS the greatest), and a healthy Walton might have rivaled him.

[colts19]

I also saw both play, however I saw much more of Walton than Russell due to them not showing the nba on tv during Russell's era. I believe they were very close rebounding and defense with a edge to Russell in both. Walton had a edge in scoring slight and in passing by a lot.

So even though I am the biggest Walton fan ever. I would give the edge to Russell. You just can't not give him the edge when he has all those Championships.

[Niquesports]

I also saw both play, however I saw much more of Walton than Russell due to them not showing the nba on tv during Russell's era. I believe they were very close rebounding and defense with a edge to Russell in both. Walton had a edge in scoring slight and in passing by a lot.

So even though I am the biggest Walton fan ever. I would give the edge to Russell. You just can't not give him the edge when he has all those Championships.
Well I didnt see Russ but from all I have read heard and talked with old heads. I would agree with you on all but the passing.The Boston offense ran through Russ much like Portlands did with walton.That being said I think the passing is close and the scoring is Walton by a larger margin.The big difference I see from everythig I have read is that Walton wasn't a take charge come on guys get behind me type of leader, Russ was.We will never now how great Walton could have been but we know how great Russ was so the easy edge goes to Russell.

[jlauber]

Well I didnt see Russ but from all I have read heard and talked with old heads. I would agree with you on all but the passing.The Boston offense ran through Russ much like Portlands did with walton.That being said I think the passing is close and the scoring is Walton by a larger margin.The big difference I see from everythig I have read is that Walton wasn't a take charge come on guys get behind me type of leader, Russ was.We will never now how great Walton could have been but we know how great Russ was so the easy edge goes to Russell.

No doubt about that. Unfortunately, we only caught a few glimpses of what Walton was capable of. Had he not been injured after 60 games in the 77-78 season (when his team was 50-10 BTW), the Blazers probably would have repeated their title, and perhaps at least one more, before Bird and Magic came into the league. The NBA COULD have really been something with a Walton-led Blazer team battling the Lakers in the West, along with the Sixer-Celtic rivalry in the East.

[G.O.A.T]

Walton modeled his game after Russell and quite successfully.

He become a more skilled and adept offensive player and though he never put up the type of assist numbers Russell did, he was close to if not as good a passer.

Mentally they are both as close to perfect as you can get. They understand the concept of teamwork, they are unselfish, but most of all they are the type of people who need to win and will do anything to ensure victory.

The biggest difference was in the physical gifts. Russell is one of the most gifted athletes to ever play the sport and Walton has the worst feet in NBA history. So even though Walton was 7'3" or so and Russell a shade under 6'10", Russell could cover so much more space on the floor that his impact was heightened.

[alexandreben]

a quick word, as individual, IMO, Bill Walton is a richman version of Alex Groza, capitain of the original "fab five", however, Bill Russell is hell of a different animal...much quicker, much faster, much better defenser and shot blocker, not to mention his freek jumping ability... not to take anything away from Russell, I think Walton has the edge in set offense

[mananmater]

Well its a little teenagery to post your opinion about some whiteboy being better at the cethe center position than russel you need to be ban.

[Bigsmoke]

Russell has more rings and is higher on everybody's All Time List so that's my choice :confusedshrug:

[Pointguard]

Interesting thread. I had the privilege of watching both of them play. IMHO, a healthy and prime Walton was a more efficient Russell, albeit, not as dominating defensively or as skilled a rebounder.

I have posted Walton's 44 point '73 NCAA Finals before, but for that did not view it, and who might be interested...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eECszAofPvE

It is a nine minute video showcasing his incredible 21-22 shooting, but his passing was equally as impressive.

Having said all of that, Russell's defense and rebounding may have been the best ever. TahRegul8r has posted some numbers on Russell's defensive impact before, and they were truly comparable to MJ's offensive impact. It was also interesting that Boston could replace HOFer Cousy with KC Jones, and not miss a beat.

IMHO, Russell was one of the all-time greatest (an argument could be made that with 11 rings, he WAS the greatest), and a healthy Walton might have rivaled him.

Wow, Walton pulled that off against an NBA front line. Was Robinsine a 30 year old college player? Did all three of Memphis players make it to the NBA. I know Kenon was like a 20ppg scorer and frequently appears on what happened to this guy questions. He was real athletic with double pumps and reverse layups - a bit ahead of his time for a big man.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Tough to say given how short Walton's peak was and how rare game footage of Russell is.

I'd say that Walton was a better post scorer and mid-range shooter as well as a better passer while Russell was the better defensive player and he had more stamina than Walton did even during his short peak so regardless of who was the better rebounder(and Russell probably was better), Russell could grab more due to his durability. Russell also seemed to be more athletic.

But I don't think peak play is why most consider Russell great to begin with, it's the fact that he consistently won and ended up with 11 championships that sets him apart.

[jlip]

Wow, Walton pulled that off against an NBA front line. Was Robinsine a 30 year old college player? Did all three of Memphis players make it to the NBA. I know Kenon was like a 20ppg scorer and frequently appears on what happened to this guy questions. He was real athletic with double pumps and reverse layups - a bit ahead of his time for a big man.

Even though that game was a few years before my time I'm from Memphis and a graduate of U of M. The '73 Memphis team is somewhat legendary here in the city and was the closest we ever got to a title before '08. Larry Finch, the guard #21, and Kenon were regarded as the team's best players. Finch and Robinson went pro, and they had short careers in the ABA. Finch is a legend here in Memphis though.

[G.O.A.T]

I'd say that Walton was a better passer while Russell was the better defensive player and he had more stamina than Walton did even during his short peak so regardless of who was the better rebounder(and Russell probably was better), Russell could grab more due to his durability. Russell also seemed to be more athletic.


What bothers me is that all stats and everything you could have read will tell you Russell was a better passer, yet you go with Walton. Why?

[ShaqAttack3234]

What bothers me is that all stats and everything you could have read will tell you Russell was a better passer, yet you go with Walton. Why?

Assist numbers are a very small part of how I judge players, particularly big men as passers. In the game footage and highlights available, I don't remember Russell's passing standing out, except his outlet passing, something that Walton also excelled at. In pretty much any Walton game I watch I see him making several great passes.

[G.O.A.T]

Assist numbers are a very small part of how I judge players, particularly big men as passers. In the game footage and highlights available, I don't remember Russell's passing standing out, except his outlet passing, something that Walton also excelled at. In pretty much any Walton game I watch I see him making several great passes.

Well what about the literally hundred's of quotes pertaining to Russell as a mastermind of passing?

What about Walton describing his game as being an imitation of Russell?

Most basically, what about Russell averaging so many assists in the lowest assist per FGM era NBA history?

I've seen more footage of Russell than you, but still not enough to say for sure, but I can say for sure that those who watched him play the game, and especially those who played with him will tell you he had the court vision to rival any elite PG of his day. Also bear in mind he is the only center to win back-to-back titles with the offense running through him as a passer first and scorer second.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Well what about the literally hundred's of quotes pertaining to Russell as a mastermind of passing?

I have heard players praise Russell's passing, but how many have praised Walton's passing? Walton is consistently brought up when both fans and writers/analysts talk about the best passing big men?


What about Walton describing his game as being an imitation of Russell?

This doesn't mean Walton wasn't a better passer, it could mean a variety of things, such as playing defense, rebounding, starting fast breaks, being unselfish ect. Walton's jump hooks, mid-range jumpers, ball fakes ect. were things that I've never heard of Russell doing or seen him doing with the exception of one short baseline jumper.


Most basically, what about Russell averaging so many assists in the lowest assist per FGM era NBA history?

If anything, I think center's assists were higher in the 60's than more recent eras.


I've seen more footage of Russell than you, but still not enough to say for sure, but I can say for sure that those who watched him play the game, and especially those who played with him will tell you he had the court vision to rival any elite PG of his day. Also bear in mind he is the only center to win back-to-back titles with the offense running through him as a passer first and scorer second.

I'm not sure about that, I've seen every game that I know is currently available, most are NBA Finals games except for game 4 of the '67 EDF and the '66 playoff game vs the Royals, some all-star footage, the college footage, tons of documentaries ect.

Unless you have access to footage that isn't common among traders, we've probably seen about the same.

I'm not saying he wasn't a good passer, but before I'll call him among the greatest passing big men ever, I'd have to see at least something visually to suggest that. In the footage we do have, we see Russell's defense, rebounding, rare ability to handle the ball for his size and speed running the court, so I'd think there'd be some visual evidence of his passing.

[G.O.A.T]

I have heard players praise Russell's passing, but how many have praised Walton's passing? Walton is consistently brought up when both fans and writers/analysts talk about the best passing big men?



This doesn't mean Walton wasn't a better passer, it could mean a variety of things, such as playing defense, rebounding, starting fast breaks, being unselfish ect. Walton's jump hooks, mid-range jumpers, ball fakes ect. were things that I've never heard of Russell doing or seen him doing with the exception of one short baseline jumper.



If anything, I think center's assists were higher in the 60's than more recent eras.



I'm not sure about that, I've seen every game that I know is currently available, most are NBA Finals games except for game 4 of the '67 EDF and the '66 playoff game vs the Royals, some all-star footage, the college footage, tons of documentaries ect.

Unless you have access to footage that isn't common among traders, we've probably seen about the same.

I'm not saying he wasn't a good passer, but before I'll call him among the greatest passing big men ever, I'd have to see at least something visually to suggest that. In the footage we do have, we see Russell's defense, rebounding, rare ability to handle the ball for his size and speed running the court, so I'd think there'd be some visual evidence of his passing.

I have had the privileged of a lot of extra Russell footage through personal connections, and regardless, the stuff available on youtube alone, when coupled with his averages (which indicate consistency) should supply you with the evidence to support my opinion.

Overall assists were considerably lower in the 60's. Something like 10% fewer field goals were assisted on from '55 to '76. Only Russell, Wilt and Maurice Stokes posted prolific assist numbers from the primary pivot pre-1970.

I know you've come around on Russell, but I still think you give your own judgment too much credit. You've seen at most 1-2% of Russell's career, I am willing to put my own opinion aside and trust those who witnessed it first hand more than my own opinion.

[Niquesports]

I have had the privileged of a lot of extra Russell footage through personal connections, and regardless, the stuff available on youtube alone, when coupled with his averages (which indicate consistency) should supply you with the evidence to support my opinion.

Overall assists were considerably lower in the 60's. Something like 10% fewer field goals were assisted on from '55 to '76. Only Russell, Wilt and Maurice Stokes posted prolific assist numbers from the primary pivot pre-1970.

I know you've come around on Russell, but I still think you give your own judgment too much credit. You've seen at most 1-2% of Russell's career, I am willing to put my own opinion aside and trust those who witnessed it first hand more than my own opinion.
IMO there isn't much difference between them as a passer to say one was better than the other. Its not like either was a magic when it came to passing. I think both just had good court awareness and was able to get the ball to the open man. Neither was passing off a dribble drive splitting the seams with no look behind the back passes.As a I said before Russ imo just had a better I am the leader personality where Walton was more of a come guys let "Us" go get em.Not to say one way is better than the other but you read more about how much of a leader Bill was and how great a player Walton was.

[momo]

Truthfully I have a tough time comparing walton to anyone, career wise as a basketball player or otherwise.

If one tries to project out an nba career with him having a body that holds up over time, one is faced with less than desirable sample size. And collegiate success is not always a great indicator. Witness Cristian Latiner.

But we know how great he was to watch and how unique is talents were. And he won. Then adapted to his new body limitations, and team, and won.



With Russel, without even seeing him people can say, check the hardware. End of story.

[feyki]

Bill Walton is one of the greatest centers in nba history at peak . 77 Bill better than any version of Admiral and Moses in my book . So , I guess ; I think he's close to Russell on their peaks .