LeBron mocks Cavs on Twitter, mentions karma, then issues denials

[Rekindled]

"Crazy. Karma is a b****.. Gets you every time. Its not good to wish bad on anybody. God sees everything!"

http://twitter.com/#!/KingJames/status/25061817583673344

[6thManOfTheYear]

:oldlol:

[kabalcage]

The HEEL!

I'm enjoying bad guy LeBron more than I've ever enjoyed good guy LeBron.

[pauk]

not really a laugh but yea anyways lol :oldlol:

[dr8ked]

:oldlol:

[branslowski]

Oh lord, here he goes again...:oldlol:

[Lebron23]

Rubbing salt in the wound.

"The Bad Buy" LeBron James.

[iDunk]

:lol God sees everything, not with that shiny forehead.

[L.Kizzle]

Did he just use B**** and God in the same breath ... yes, LeBron God does see everything, just like that statement.

[boozehound]

"Crazy. Karma is a b****.. Gets you every time. Its not good to wish bad on anybody. God sees everything!"

http://twitter.com/#!/KingJames/status/25061817583673344
does he realize that karma is incompatible with a belief in jesus as your lord and savior? Terrible Christian.

[Batz]

I hope you stub your toe, Lebron. :D

[DuMa]

lol thats pretty damn cold. but the cavs owner had it coming.

[asdf1990]

rubbing salt on the wounds.

[Scientist]

Doubt it will last long cause of his PR, so ill paste it:

http://img1.uploadscreenshot.com/images/orig/1/1100352840-orig.jpg

[playtetris]

if lebron is evil, does that mean kobe is good?

[pauk]

"Location: Wherever Haters Are"

hahahahah, love it, embracing his villain role

[FashionIssues]

just keep it movin bron. you have the last laugh already. leave things alone without throwing unnecessary jabs at the past.

[Skip Bayless]

Yes Karma is a b**** LeBrick, you quit on your team in game 2, your Mom's and Delonte's sex monkey party becomes news in game 4. Then you quit in game 5.

[pauk]

just keep it movin bron. you have the last laugh already. leave things alone without throwing unnecessary jabs at the past.

i like this new lebron! reminds me of kobe and reggie how they embraced the hatred roles and shut everybody up, the hatred fueled them only

[shadow]

this guy keeps reaching new levels of self absorbed-ness. Karma is a ***** bron, it'll come back to haunt ya.

[pauk]

Yes Karma is a b**** LeBrick, you quit on your team in game 2, your Mom's and Delonte's sex monkey party becomes news in game 4. Then you quit in game 5.

:eek: is this behaviour allowed on ISH?

[ctown4eva]

just keep it movin bron. you have the last laugh already. leave things alone without throwing unnecessary jabs at the past.

He won't have the last laugh unless he wins a title. If not, the haters will be back out of the woodwork in May when he fails.

[Reverend Hoops]

Losing like this Dan Gilbert does look like a complete tool now, if he didn't before.

[Skip Bayless]

i like this new lebron! reminds me of kobe and reggie how they embraced the hatred roles and shut everybody up, the hatred fueled them only

Just to let you know, there's a difference between taking a Villin role, and being a complete brainless sapp with no education what so ever.

[BallsOut]

Ironic that Lebron, of all people, would be talking about karma.

[pauk]

dudes he aint aiming this towards the cavs players themselves, but towards dan gilbert, its his franchise

[Walduś]

Yes Karma is a b**** LeBrick, you quit on your team in game 2, your Mom's and Delonte's sex monkey party becomes news in game 4. Then you quit in game 5.
:oldlol:

yep karma is a bytch and i will be lol'ing when bronzy is going to have career ending injury. :oldlol:

[JM720]

Poor Victim.

[Lakers13]

LeBron must not know how karma works :oldlol:

[bokes15]

As if "karma" is the reason they got smashed tonight. Look at their roster.

[boozehound]

heres the thing. While the cavs fans (and even the organization) may have acted like little *******, those dudes out there getting embarrassed were his teammates and, supposed, friends for years. Tells you a little about his character that, rather than just keep it to himself and his circle, he feels the need to share this kind of petty jab (mostly at the players really) with the world. Dude is clearly still hurt by the national reaction to his ego party last year.

[pauk]

Just to let you know, there's a difference between taking a Villin role, and being a complete brainless sapp with no education what so ever.

wut? kobe didnt go to college either :oldlol:
and oh kobe was even more like you say brainless in your words, even more hated and he didnt do these minor stuff lebron did, kobe did some nasty shit, he trashtalked/fought his teammates, other players, on and of the court and did some much more nasty shit i dont even wanna mention, lebron is saint compared to how kobe was, but i still love kobe!!! i like those villains that can back it up on the court! thats why reggie miller was my favorite player ever heheh

Reggie was best at it, he would hit a shot and then trashtalk to everybody or show this sign :D

http://www.basketball.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/reggie-miller-choke.jpg

[Skip Bayless]

:oldlol:

yep karma is a bytch and i will be lol'ing when bronzy is going to have career ending injury. :oldlol:

I would never wish an injury on a player, but this guy and his many idiotic post makes me change my view on this matter slightly.

[RedBlackAttack]

Karma = Hindu (Jain, Buddhist and/or Sikh)

LeBron's God = Christian

LeBron James = Low IQ and/or blasphemer

[boozehound]

dudes he aint aiming this towards the cavs players themselves, but towards dan gilbert, its his franchise
how? Is gilbert out there shooting 1-9? While he may mean the organization, the people out there getting embarrassed were his dance buddies and sidekicks/cronies. pretty poor taste if you ask me.

You can take the kid out of the hood.....
but without any attempt at an education, hes just a rich hoodrat with that mentality. thank you

[Allstar24]

Not the smartest thing to say...but I can't blame him for wanting to stick it to that Cavs owner who ripped him apart mercilessly.

[boozehound]

wut? kobe didnt go to college either :oldlol:
and oh kobe was even more like you say brainless in your words, even more hated and he didnt do these minor stuff lebron did, kobe did some nasty shit, he trashtalked/fought his teammates, other players, on and of the court and did some much more nasty shit i dont even wanna mention, lebron is saint compared to how kobe was, but i still love kobe!!! i like those villains that can back it up on the court! thats why reggie miller was my favorite player ever heheh

Reggie was best at it, he would hit a shot and then trashtalk to everybody or show this sign :D

http://www.basketball.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/reggie-miller-choke.jpg
education is not just about "going" to college. Its clear that kobe (who I also dont like as a player) has spent much more of his adult life learning to talk and act like an adult

[Doranku]

:roll: Oh, the irony.

[pauk]

education is not just about "going" to college. Its clear that kobe (who I also dont like as a player) has spent much more of his adult life learning to talk and act like an adult

where have u been in the 90s and early 00s ???? :oldlol: :oldlol:

dude lebron is very intelligent, but arrogant, thats about it

[Skip Bayless]

wut? kobe didnt go to college either :oldlol:
and oh kobe was even more like you say brainless in your words, even more hated and he didnt do these minor stuff lebron did, kobe did some nasty shit, he trashtalked/fought his teammates, other players, on and of the court and did some much more nasty shit i dont even wanna mention, lebron is saint compared to how kobe was, but i still love kobe!!! i like those villains that can back it up on the court! thats why reggie miller was my favorite player ever heheh



LeBron hasn't done anything in this alleged role that shows he's great in it. But I guess your true character can come out once you hide behind Wade. I knew about his guy's true self long before the decision, I was alone in it, everyone blasted me for telling a truth that has now reached the lights.

[pauk]

LeBron hasn't done anything in this alleged role that shows he's great in it. But I guess your true character can come out once you hide behind Wade. I knew about his guy's true self long before the decision, I was alone in it, everyone blasted me for telling a truth that has now reached the lights.

:roll:

dude u are just a hater, admit it! nothing lebron does is good for you, when have you ever complemented lebron on anything?

[ShannonElements]

Karma = Hindu (Jain, Buddhist and/or Sikh)

LeBron's God = Christian

LeBron James = Low IQ and/or blasphemer

He doesn't strike me as someone who's genuinely religious anyway. Just one of many people who identifies with a religion without actually following/adhering to it.

Seems directed to Gilbert to me, but you know it's going to get the shit spun out of it until we're all dizzy.

[Indian guy]

how? Is gilbert out there shooting 1-9?

You are taking this too literally. This was clearly a shot at Dan Gilbert, and him only.

[boozehound]

where have u been in the 90s and early 00s ???? :oldlol: :oldlol:

dude lebron is very intelligent, but arrogant, thats about it
I dont have an issue with him, but he is clearly not that smart. The whole
I dont know what contraction means" situation is a recent example of it. Either hes too dumb to think about what hes going to say before he opens his mouth, or he has the vocabulary of a 4th grader. his choice.

[boozehound]

He doesn't strike me as someone who's genuinely religious anyway. Just one of many people who identifies with a religion without actually following/adhering to it.

Seems directed to Gilbert to me, but you know it's going to get the shit spun out of it until we're all dizzy.
none of these dudes are (other than a.c. green and probably kaman). Its all just a cultural expectation they accept without critically examining. as do most people.

[BallsOut]

You are taking this too literally. This was clearly a shot at Dan Gilbert, and him only.

Even if it was directed at Gilbert, I'm sure he is laughing somewhere right now. A lost is a lost. It just increased the Cavs chance at the #1 pick in the lottery. Karma doesn't work that way Lebron.

[RoseCity07]

He doesn't strike me as someone who's genuinely religious anyway. Just one of many people who identifies with a religion without actually following/adhering to it.

Seems directed to Gilbert to me, but you know it's going to get the shit spun out of it until we're all dizzy.

Yeah, you mean like Dwight Howard. Mr holy bible thumper, but then in private he pulls down his pants when having a conversation with a playboy model.

[macpierce]

Yeah, you mean like Dwight Howard. Mr holy bible thumper, but then in private he pulls down his pants when having a conversation with a playboy model.
I dont believe there was ever proof of this was there
:milton

[NuggetsFan]

Good stuff. If I was LeBron I'd be shitting on Cleveland every single day and than some.

[ShannonElements]

Yeah, you mean like Dwight Howard. Mr holy bible thumper, but then in private he pulls down his pants when having a conversation with a playboy model.

He probably asked himself "WWJD?"

[Lebron23]

Good stuff. If I was LeBron I'd be shitting on Cleveland every single day and than some.


Straight out of the Bird and Jordan thrash-talking book.

[Skip Bayless]

:roll:

dude u are just a hater, admit it! nothing lebron does is good for you, when have you ever complemented lebron on anything?

I complement him on tons of things.

He's the most athletic player I ever witnessed. He's also the greatest driver of the basketball I have ever seen. He's also great at drawing fouls. One of the most talented players to ever play the game. Top 50 All time player.

[RedBlackAttack]

He doesn't strike me as someone who's genuinely religious anyway. Just one of many people who identifies with a religion without actually following/adhering to it.

Seems directed to Gilbert to me, but you know it's going to get the shit spun out of it until we're all dizzy.
In fairness, is James actually genuine about anything outside of his own narcissism?


Straight out of the Bird and Jordan thrash-talking book.
It is difficult for me to think of anything less like Jordan/Bird than this move. Then again, it is James being James... I'm glad he found himself.

[Skip Bayless]

In fairness, is James actually genuine about anything outside of his own narcissism?


It is difficult for me to think of anything less like Jordan/Bird than this move. Then again, it is James being James... I'm glad he found himself.

Agreed on both views. Jordan and Bird didn't act in a way that showed they had no education.

[DropStep]

DWade right now is saying "God Damn Lebron" "Not Again":roll: :roll:

Im sure if Bird and Jordan played in this "internet" era things would be different too.

[YAWN]

The media haters are gonna pile on him tomorrow. Frankly Im impressed that he was in his hotel watching the game instead of out in LA. Villain Lebron ftw.

[PowerGlove]

Karma = Hindu (Jain, Buddhist and/or Sikh)

LeBron's God = Christian

LeBron James = Low IQ and/or blasphemer

Come on now, we all know what he meant, he just used a common term that is derived from another religion. I lold though.

[50inchvertical]

Yeah, you mean like Dwight Howard. Mr holy bible thumper, but then in private he pulls down his pants when having a conversation with a playboy model.
Is anybody perfect tho? I don't think that is the point of religion to pretend you are.

And I took LeBron's tweet to be directed at Gilbert more than the players too, but then again, I am not from Cleveland nor am I am hater.

Mo Williams- 2pts
Antawn Jamison- 6pts
JJ Hickson- 5pts

[Kurosawa0]

This is too good! :oldlol: :roll:

[RedBlackAttack]

Come on now, we all know what he meant, he just used a common term that is derived from another religion.
I honestly don't believe that he knows the origins of the word.... Call me crazy... Just a hunch.

[Kurosawa0]

If anything, this should lockup the MVP for LeBron this year. Really, take any other player from a team and whatever is left, it's not this bad. :oldlol:

[DeronMillsap]

Good stuff. If I was LeBron I'd be shitting on Cleveland every single day and than some.
I thought Cleveland wasn't on his list?

[50inchvertical]

I honestly don't believe that he knows the origins of the word.... Call me crazy... Just a hunch.
You are just being irrational and hating because you are from Cleveland.

Everybody who uses the word karma doesn't have to be Hindu or BUddhist.

It is used in Western culture all the time to describe a situation where someone does something negative and then something negative befalls them, or the same situation with something positive and you know that.

So yes, he used it correctly.

Dan Gilbert wished all that negative against LeBron talking about curses and all that bullshit trying to rally the city against LeBron by blaming everything on him, and now his team sucks major balls. Fits the definition perfectly.

Get over it.

[RedBlackAttack]

If anything, this should lockup the MVP for LeBron this year. Really, take any other player from a team and whatever is left, it's not this bad. :oldlol:
Yes... Because these guys (most minutes played for the Cavs tonight):

Manny Harris
Samardo Samuels
Antawn Jamison
Alonzo Gee
Ramon Sessions

...were all a part of the back-to-back 60-win teams.

[BallsOut]

You are just being irrational and hating because you are from Cleveland.

Everybody who uses the word karma doesn't have to be Hindu or BUddhist.

It is used in Western culture all the time to describe a situation where someone does something negative and then something negative befalls them, or the same situation with something positive and you know that.

So yes, he used it correctly.

Dan Gilbert wished all that negative against LeBron talking about curses and all that bullshit trying to rally the city against LeBron by blaming everything on him, and now his team sucks major balls. Fits the definition perfectly.

Get over it.

Did anyone think the Cavs were going to win a championship any time soon? Gilbert is shooting for the #1 lottery pick. The lost tonight wasn't karma. It just increased their chances of getting that pick. And all that crap Dan said about Lebron is true. He did quit. Did you not watch the Celtics/Cavs series?

[ShannonElements]

I honestly don't believe that he knows the origins of the word.... Call me crazy... Just a hunch.

Your average person probably doesn't either. Are we really gonna rag on the guy for this? People of all religions use the term "karma" and I'm guessing a lot of them don't know the origin. It's a pretty common term in the West regardless of religion.

[RedBlackAttack]

Get over it.
I'm over it.

And, it isn't a big deal that he used the word... Just funny that he used it in the same tweet that he brought up his Christian god in. He opened the door... I just walked through it.

No one is ever going to confuse James for a university scholar.

[imdaman99]

wtf is this guy talking about God sees everything? n*gga u done sold your soul to the devil aka pat riley, talkin bout God sees everything. fcuk outa here.

[Kurosawa0]

Yes... Because these guys (most minutes played for the Cavs' tonight):

Manny Harris
Samardo Samuels
Antawn Jamison
Alonzo Gee
Ramon Sessions

...were all a part of the back-to-back 60-win teams.

Wasn't Jamison supposed to be the missing piece to the puzzle? The part that was going to put Cleveland over the top? :oldlol:

I'm sorry, but you can't make the argument anymore that Cleveland had a good supporting cast for LeBron. They're 8-30 and have -10.6 point differential. Do you know who has the second worst point differential? New Jersey at -6.6

That argument is now in Oden vs. Durant territory.

[Indian guy]

Yes... Because these guys (most minutes played for the Cavs' tonight):

Manny Harris
Samardo Samuels
Antawn Jamison
Alonzo Gee
Ramon Sessions

...were all a part of the back-to-back 60-win teams.

Let's not try to hide behind semantics. Cleveland's core from last season have all played 30+ games this year, and Cleveland still managed to post the worst win % in the league with all of 'em healthy. LeBron's firmly established himself as the MVPE(Most Valuable Player Ever) this season.

[Yung D-Will]

Wasn't Jamison supposed to be the missing piece to the puzzle? The part that was going to put Cleveland over the top? :oldlol:

I'm sorry, but you can't make the argument anymore that Cleveland had a good supporting cast for LeBron. They're 8-30 and have -10.6 point differential. Do you know who has the second worst point differential? New Jersey at -6.6

That argument is now in Oden vs. Durant territory.
Actually Shaqattack made that argument yesterday and I didn't see anyone prove him wrong.

[RedBlackAttack]

Wasn't Jamison supposed to be the missing piece to the puzzle? The part that was going to put Cleveland over the top? :oldlol:

I'm sorry, but you can't make the argument anymore that Cleveland had a good supporting cast for LeBron. They're 8-30 and have -10.6 point differential. Do you know who has the second worst point differential? New Jersey at -6.6

That argument is now in Oden vs. Durant territory.
Jamison barely played alongside James and the team regressed with his acquisition, whether his fault, the coach's fault or James and the other players' fault. So, no... He had nothing to do with the 60-win seasons.

How are you going to argue that this is the same team minus James? All three guys that played center last year are gone... Shaq, Z, Varejao. Our lone true center is Ryan Hollins.

I know you like James, but be reasonable.

[imdaman99]

Let's not try to hide behind semantics. Cleveland's core from last season have all played 30+ games this year, and Cleveland still managed to post the worst win % in the league with all of 'em healthy. LeBron's firmly established himself as the MVPE(Most Valuable Player Ever) this season.
The team is trash because it was built around Lebron and his strengths. Obviously without alpha dog, the team is gonna struggle.

[branslowski]

Let's not try to hide behind semantics. Cleveland's core from last season have all played 30+ games this year, and Cleveland still managed to post the worst win % in the league with all of 'em healthy. LeBron's firmly established himself as the MVPE(Most Valuable Player Ever) this season.

notsureifserious....

[A.R.T]

Let's not try to hide behind semantics. Cleveland's core from last season have all played 30+ games this year, and Cleveland still managed to post the worst win % in the league with all of 'em healthy. LeBron's firmly established himself as the MVPE(Most Valuable Player Ever) this season.
:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:


























































:facepalm

[Fawker]

he got pimped by weak ass wade. let them faggits get theirs. those weak ass bastards raised by dope fiend mothers.

[RJChPD]

The team is trash because it was built around Lebron and his strengths. Obviously without alpha dog, the team is gonna struggle.
And what are Lebron's strengths ? So you're saying in other words trash suits lebron best.

[Indian guy]

notsureifserious....

Name me one player in NBA history who was more valuable to his team than LeBron to Cleveland the last 2 seasons. We are talking about a guy worth 40 wins to his team. Nobody sniffs that type of value.

[DMizzle]

http://twitter.com/mogotti2

lol look at mo williams last tweet

[BallsOut]

Name me one player in NBA history who was more valuable to his team than LeBron to Cleveland the last 2 seasons. We are talking about a guy worth 40 wins to his team. Nobody sniffs that type of value.

-Lebron
-Shaq
-Delonte West
-Big Z
-Mike Brown
-and some other dudes

[Kurosawa0]

I know you like James, but be reasonable.

Be reasonable? I just stated that this team has lost 30 out of 38 games and has negative point differential in the double digits.

I'm sorry, but your argument is completely indefensible right now.

It's pretty clear that LeBron was EVERYTHING for this team. There's no other MVP candidate that if you took them for their team, that team would be this bad. Even the Mavs sans Dirk have played better than the Cavs.

[RedBlackAttack]

Let's not try to hide behind semantics. Cleveland's core from last season have all played 30+ games this year, and Cleveland still managed to post the worst win % in the league with all of 'em healthy. LeBron's firmly established himself as the MVPE(Most Valuable Player Ever) this season.
James, Shaq, Z and Delonte were not core players for the Cavs last year? Jamario Moon has been our starting SF for the majority of this season... He barely smelled the court last year (and he isn't a legitimate starter on any decent team, including the Cavs last year).

Semantics is the study of words... I fail to see how any of my post was 'semantics.' I just stated an irrefutable fact.

If you dismantle any team in a single offseason the way that the Cavs were dismantled, they are going to be in bad shape. We lost Shaq, James and Z and we added Ramon Sessions and Ryan Hollins. You do the math.

Now, Varejao is out for the year.

[50inchvertical]

Did anyone think the Cavs were going to win a championship any time soon? Gilbert is shooting for the #1 lottery pick. The lost tonight wasn't karma. It just increased their chances of getting that pick. And all that crap Dan said about Lebron is true. He did quit. Did you not watch the Celtics/Cavs series?
This draft sucks anyways. Who are they gonna get, Jared Sullinger? Kyrie Irving if he goes in the draft? Perry Jones? Enes Kantner from Turkey? I like Terrence Jones but it's not like he is single handedly going to turn that team around.
That team is going nowhere fast and in no way, shape, o form going to win a title before Miami. Even if neither wins, one team will obviously be infinitely closer considering they are going to be in the playoffs with HCA and Cleveland is going to set a record for wins dropoff from 1 season to the next.

Your average person probably doesn't either. Are we really gonna rag on the guy for this? People of all religions use the term "karma" and I'm guessing a lot of them don't know the origin. It's a pretty common term in the West regardless of religion.
He knows. Dude is just from Cleveland so his ****** is still salty

[Cermet]

if lebron is evil, does that mean kobe is good?

Nope still a rapist @sshole

[Kurosawa0]

We lost Shaq, James and Z.

Seriously, add Shaq, Delonte and Z to the Cavs... How many wins? 9?

[Yung D-Will]

Name me one player in NBA history who was more valuable to his team than LeBron to Cleveland the last 2 seasons. We are talking about a guy worth 40 wins to his team. Nobody sniffs that type of value.
Wade clearly.
Replace Jamieson with Haslem
Replace Shaq with Joel Anthony
Replace Mo WIlliams with an unfocused Michael Beasley
Replace delonte west with Mario Chalmbers
Remains JJ hickson with Carlos Arroyo
Replace Daniel Gibson with Daquan Cook

Replace one team that's trying to build a team around Lebron with one team thats trying to clear up cap space for the 2010 offeseason instead of putting talent around Wade.

It's amazing to me that Wade could take that team to 48+ wins

[50inchvertical]

***** about who you lost last yr, but all of the production has been replaced.

Shaq would have been "injured" and checked out on the season by now if he was there. He's only giving Boston 10 and 5, pretty much what Hickson is getting right now. Last yr he was 12 and 6.7 in the reg season, down to 11 and 5.5 in the playoffs.

Delonte has only played 5 games and is averaging 6.8ppg. Even last yr, he averaged 8.8 and missed over 25% of the season.

Big Z is giving you 6 and 5 this season, 7 and 5 last season. In the playoffs he gave you 11 and 8.

Now let's look at their replacements.

Ramon Sessions is giving Cleveland 10 and 3 and hasn't missed a game.

JJ Hickson is giving you 10 and 5 and can at least move.

Leon Powe gives you 5 and 3 in 14 minutes, Ryan Hollins adds 5 and 2 in 13 minutes, AV (now out for season) gives you 9 and 10 in 32 minutes slightly up from 8 and 9 last season, Samardo Samuels give you 3 pts in 5 minutes.

Basically, you have more than replaced the meager production of those other 3 guys with no dropoff.

The common missing denominator is LeBron.

And furthermore, the field goal % of every player on the team has dropped by 5% along with their ppgs. That "supporting cast" is trash.

[branslowski]

Name me one player in NBA history who was more valuable to his team than LeBron to Cleveland the last 2 seasons. We are talking about a guy worth 40 wins to his team. Nobody sniffs that type of value.

What about the years he won 45 and then jumped to 60+ with additions of Mo and others? What about the solid defensive scheme of Mike Brown? I'am in no shape or form denying this guy's MVP like talents, but he's not 40+ Wins by himself because of him, thats completely retarded to say IMO....So we saying if Celtics won 52 games, add LeBron and they go 82-0? I mean seriously....WTF.

Again, Bron is great no doubt, but he isn't 40+ wins by himself. Stop with this nonsense brah.

[RedBlackAttack]

I'm sorry, but your argument is completely indefensible right now.

The argument that this team is completely different, not just in its players, but in its coach and it shouldn't be a reflection of what happened in previous years is 'indefensible'?

How many games did Ryan Hollins start at center last year? Manny Harris at SG?

[Kurosawa0]

Wade clearly.
Replace Jamieson with Haslem
Replace Shaq with Joel Anthony
Replace Mo WIlliams with an unfocused Michael Beasley
Replace delonte west with Mario Chalmbers
Remains JJ hickson with Carlos Arroyo
Replace Daniel Gibson with Daquan Cook

Replace one team that's trying to build a team around Lebron with one team thats trying to clear up cap space for the 2010 offeseason instead of putting talent around Wade.

That Heat team minus Wade is still probably better than this Cavs team. They'd at least try...

[Yung D-Will]

Wade clearly.
Replace Jamieson with Haslem
Replace Shaq with Joel Anthony
Replace Mo WIlliams with an unfocused Michael Beasley
Replace delonte west with Mario Chalmbers
Remains JJ hickson with Carlos Arroyo
Replace Daniel Gibson with Daquan Cook

Replace one team that's trying to build a team around Lebron with one team thats trying to clear up cap space for the 2010 offeseason instead of putting talent around Wade.

It's amazing to me that Wade could take that team to 48+ wins
Replace Big Z with Maglorie

[BallsOut]

***** about who you lost last yr, but all of the production has been replaced.

Shaq would have been "injured" and checked out on the season by now if he was there. He's only giving Boston 10 and 5, pretty much what Hickson is getting right now. Last yr he was 12 and 6.7 in the reg season, down to 11 and 5.5 in the playoffs.

Delonte has only played 5 games and is averaging 6.8ppg. Even last yr, he averaged 8.8 and missed over 25% of the season.

Big Z is giving you 6 and 5 this season, 7 and 5 last season. In the playoffs he gave you 11 and 8.

Now let's look at their replacements.

Ramon Sessions is giving Cleveland 10 and 3 and hasn't missed a game.

JJ Hickson is giving you 10 and 5 and can at least move.

Leon Powe gives you 5 and 3 in 14 minutes, Ryan Hollins adds 5 and 2 in 13 minutes, AV gives you 9 and 10 in 32 minutes slightly up from 8 and 9 last season, Samardo Samuels give you 3 pts in 5 minutes.

Basically, you have more than replaced the meager production of those other 3 guys with no dropoff. The common missing denominator is LeBron.

Offensive numbers don't tell the whole story. Shaq was their paint enforcer. Delonte West was their 1st/2nd best perimeter defender. Big Z was a viable backup C, now they don't even have a backup C. Mike Brown >>>> defensive coach than Byron Scott. A Brown led team would never lose by 50 points like a Byron Scott team (see Hornets and Chris Paul).

[Yung D-Will]

That Heat team minus Wade is still probably better than this Cavs team. They'd at least try...
Last season if you took out Lebron and Wade the cavs were clearly a better team.

[tpols]

What about the years he won 45 and then jumped to 60+ with additions of Mo and others? What about the solid defensive scheme of Mike Brown? I'am in no shape or form denying this guy's MVP like talents, but he's not 40+ Wins by himself because of him, thats completely retarded to say IMO....So we saying if Celtics won 52 games, add LeBron and they go 82-0? I mean seriously....WTF.

Again, Bron is great no doubt, but he isn't 40+ wins by himself. Stop with this nonsense brah.
Yup I already pulled up lebron's stats in the other threads and he averaged the EXACT SAME stats from before 09 to after it and his team went up by 15+ wins in both scenarios... the TEAMS were well coached and playing up to expectations in those regular seasons and idiots like indian guy want to ignore that the entire roster being switched up and decimated and the coach and all of his schemes being gone has no effect on cleveland's spiral this year...

[Walduś]

lol the cavs started the season 7-9 and since then they only won 1 game, yep they are definitely not tanking the season. :rolleyes:

[RedBlackAttack]

Seriously, add Shaq, Delonte and Z to the Cavs... How many wins? 9?
You would have to add Shaq, Delonte, Z, a true starting SF and have the same coach to have a true comparison. Taking away James and putting in his place a career bench-warmer does not make for a legitimate debate.

Jamario Moon played very limited minutes for the Cavaliers last year and now he has been thrust into a critical role.

And, yeah... Put Delonte, Shaq and Z on this roster right now and they would be three of the five best players immediately. Do you see who we are playing out there?

[Zack Ryder]

ouch bro

lol at mo will bro

[50inchvertical]

http://i54.tinypic.com/35lvnh5.jpg

[SevereUpInHere]

Yes... Because these guys (most minutes played for the Cavs tonight):

Manny Harris
Samardo Samuels
Antawn Jamison
Alonzo Gee
Ramon Sessions

...were all a part of the back-to-back 60-win teams.


Wow I had to check the Cav's roster, I thought you were making up names, I've only heard of Jamison and Sessions.

[Lakers13]

Mo is so emo, he's probably trying to cut his wrists as we speak, the wrong way

[RJChPD]

James, Shaq, Z and Delonte were not core players for the Cavs last year? Jamario Moon has been our starting SF for the majority of this season... He barely smelled the court last year (and he isn't a legitimate starter on any decent team, including the Cavs last year).

Semantics is the study of words... I fail to see how any of my post was 'semantics.' I just stated an irrefutable fact.

If you dismantle any team in a single offseason the way that the Cavs were dismantled, they are going to be in bad shape. We lost Shaq, James and Z and we added Ramon Sessions and Ryan Hollins. You do the math.

Now, Varejao is out for the year.

The cavs always had issues winning without Lebron, even when he was in Cleveland. Shaq wasn't on the 66 win team. The core for me would be Mo, Lebron and Varejao. All the other players were interchangeable. They were headed for disaster with, Mo, Jamison and Andy in the line up. So obviously Lebron is the biggest reason for the slide, whether you like it or not.

[Allstar24]

Mo is so emo, he's probably trying to cut his wrists as we speak, the wrong way
:oldlol:

[Kurosawa0]

The argument that this team is completely different, not just in its players, but in its coach and it shouldn't be a reflection of what happened in previous years is 'indefensible'?

The argument that it was anything other than LeBron, and pretty much LeBron alone that made this team a 60+ win team over the last two years is indefensible.

I'm sorry, but they have a -10.6 point differential. They had a +6.5 last year. That's a 17.1 point swing.

There is no argument now. It's like trying to argue that Oden is better than Durant...

It's just ridiculous at this point. The Cavs won more games than anyone last season and now they're the worst team in the league.

[branslowski]

Yup I already pulled up lebron's stats in the other threads and he averaged the EXACT SAME stats from before 09 to after it and his team went up by 15+ wins in both scenarios... the TEAMS were well coached and playing up to expectations in those regular seasons and idiots like indian guy want to ignore that the entire roster being switched up and decimated and the coach and all of his schemes being gone has no effect on cleveland's spiral this year...

Exactly. And again, Iam not denying the greatness of one LeBron James, But some of his fans need to get real and use perspective.

[Kurosawa0]

Last season if you took out Lebron and Wade the cavs were clearly a better team.

Remains to be seen.

[tpols]

The cavs always had issues winning without Lebron, even when he was in Cleveland. Shaq wasn't on the 66 win team. The core for me would be Mo, Lebron and Varejao. All the other players were interchangeable. They were headed for disaster with, Mo, Jamison and Andy in the line up. So obviously Lebron is the biggest reason for the slide, whether you like it or not.
Yup.. lebron is the biggest reason. But he's not the only one. Lebron would probably add around 25 wins to any shitty team you put him on, but not 40. That's all were saying. The extra games there losing are for reasons other than lebron leaving. Half the team and the coach are gone too.

[pauk]

http://twitter.com/mogotti2/status/25074366345650176

Mo Williams twitter is even better!!! hahahahahahahah

[Yung D-Will]

The argument that it was anything other than LeBron, and pretty much LeBron alone that made this team a 60+ win team over the last two years is indefensible.

I'm sorry, but they have a -10.6 point differential. They had a +6.5 last year. That's a 17.1 point swing.

There is no argument now. It's like trying to argue that Oden is better than Durant...

It's just ridiculous at this point. The Cavs won more games than anyone last season and now they're the worst team in the league.
That argument seems really worthless if you actually look how many things have changed about the Cavs during the offeseason.

And Yes there is an argument just because you fail to recognize something so obvious doesn't make it void it just makes you ignorant

[Indian guy]

James, Shaq, Z and Delonte were not core players for the Cavs last year?

Have stated this a 100 times already. You lost 1 starter(Shaq) and 2 bench players(Z & West). You gained Jamison, Sessions and Hollins. At the VERY least, they make-up for whatever Z and a fu*ked up West brought off the bench last season. In fact, statistically, it's not even close. So the only player you're truly "missing" is Shaq. Don't tell me Cleveland would look any different right now w/ a 38 year Shaq on the roster. He would've faked an injury by the season's 5th game and sat out the year.

Cleveland is the exact same team this year that they were last season. You replaced all the guys you lost. You replaced a coach with pretty much a replica. Don't tell me Mike Brown would've fared any differently. Cleveland was 1-13 or something w/o LeBron under Mike Brown the last 3 years.


Semantics is the study of words

Kurosawa was clearly referring to the season as a WHOLE in his post. You tried to pretend like he was only talking about tonight's game so you could hide behind the injury excuse. As if Cleveland wasn't dog poop when everybody was healthy :rolleyes:

[Kurosawa0]

Yup.. lebron is the biggest reason. But he's not the only one. Lebron would probably add around 25 wins to any shitty team you put him on, but not 40. That's all were saying. The extra games there losing are for reasons other than lebron leaving. Half the team and the coach are gone too.

So, if the Cavs end up with a record of say 22-60 (generous), LeBron being worth 25 wins, that means that Mike Brown, Delonte West, Z and Andy V would equal the 19 other wins the 2009 team had?

I'm sorry, but this argument is dead. Ironically, the Lakers killed it.

[RedBlackAttack]

The cavs always had issues winning without Lebron, even when he was in Cleveland. Shaq wasn't on the 66 win team. The core for me would be Mo, Lebron and Varejao. All the other players were interchangeable. They were headed for disaster with, Mo, Jamison and Andy in the line up. So obviously Lebron is the biggest reason for the slide, whether you like it or not.
Considering the team was built completely around James, it was a predictable outcome. I expected it, which is why I was calling for a complete overhaul immediately after 'The Decision.'

It isn't that James is so great that he is personally responsible for 40+ wins. It is that this team was built for a very unique player and, without that presence, become a lost puppy.

Throw in the loss of your two 7-footers and the other guy who could conceivably playmake and, well... You see it.

[50inchvertical]

The cavs always had issues winning without Lebron, even when he was in Cleveland. Shaq wasn't on the 66 win team. The core for me would be Mo, Lebron and Varejao. All the other players were interchangeable. They were headed for disaster with, Mo, Jamison and Andy in the line up. So obviously Lebron is the biggest reason for the slide, whether you like it or not.
LeBron James

548 Games Played

339 Games Won

LeBron James' Win Percentage = .618

Cavs win percentage without LeBron James = .384 (26 Games)

Difference = .234

[Yung D-Will]

Remains to be seen.

What remains to be seen? If you watched Wade the past 2 seasons even when Miami and the cavs played you know Wade would have been begging to have a supporting cast even as good as Lebrons.

[Kurosawa0]

That argument seems really worthless if you actually look how many things have changed about the Cavs during the offeseason.

And Yes there is an argument just because you fail to recognize something so obvious doesn't make it void it just makes you ignorant

I can recognize that the Cavs have lost some pieces. I'm just saying that it's now undeniable that one piece was more important than any of the other pieces combined.

[Lebron23]

LeBron James

548 Games Played

339 Games Won

LeBron James' Win Percentage = .618

Cavs win percentage without LeBron James = .384 (26 Games)

Difference = .234


Lakers record without Kobe Bryant

Kobe Bryant

1021 Games Played

676 Games Won

Kobe Bryant's Regular Season Win Percentage = .662

Lakers Win Percentage Without Kobe Bryant = .604 (95 games)

Difference = .058

[RedBlackAttack]

All of these 'replacements' and it is somehow the same team.... Doesn't matter how much you want it to be the same team, it isn't. It doesn't matter how you compare the numbers and talk yourself into believing that all lost players were accounted for with the stellar acquisitions of Sessions and Hollins, it isn't the same team.

Different players + different coach = different team.

[Kurosawa0]

What remains to be seen? If you watched Wade the past 2 seasons even when Miami and the cavs played you know Wade would have been begging to have a supporting cast even as good as Lebrons.

This team, right now, isn't better than what Wade had the last few years. I'm sorry, but they still have LeBron's #2 and #3 options on that team.

[LilBTheBasedGod]

Lol LeBron stylin' on Cleveland, umad haterz? :dancin

[tpols]

So, if the Cavs end up with a record of say 22-60 (generous), LeBron being worth 25 wins, that means that Mike Brown, Delonte West, Z and Andy V would equal the 19 other wins the 2009 team had?

I'm sorry, but this argument is dead. Ironically, the Lakers killed it.
With the chemistry and defense being broken up by having their two best big men and perimeter defender and their coach and all of his schemes.. yes. The cavs went from winning 50 games to winning 66 games with lebron putting the EXACT same numbers. Thats because the team started playing better.

You really think you can add lebron to any 20 win team and have them win 60 games the next year?

[Yung D-Will]

I can recognize that the Cavs have lost some pieces. I'm just saying that it's now undeniable that one piece was more important than any of the other pieces combined.
That's generally how it is with superstars carrying their team.

[Kurosawa0]

All of these 'replacements' and it is somehow the same team.... Doesn't matter how much you want it to be the same team, it isn't. It doesn't matter how you compare the numbers and talk yourself into believing that all lost players were accounted for with the stellar acquisitions of Sessions and Hollins, it isn't the same team.

Different players + different coach = different team.

But, it's not a different team completely. They still have Mo, Jamison, Parker, Varejao (he played through the losing), Hickson and I think just about anyone would take Byron Scott over Mike Brown.

[Yung D-Will]

This team, right now, isn't better than what Wade had the last few years. I'm sorry, but they still have LeBron's #2 and #3 options on that team.
Please get out of here. What was Wades number 2 options a retardedly inconsistant second year beasley and his 3rd option was Haslem?


Give me Mo and Jamieson easily.

Thx.

[RJChPD]

Considering the team was built completely around James, it was a predictable outcome. I expected it, which is why I was calling for a complete overhaul immediately after 'The Decision.'

It isn't that James is so great that he is personally responsible for 40+ wins. It is that this team was built for a very unique player and, without that presence, become a lost puppy.

Throw in the loss of your two 7-footers and the other guy who could conceivably playmake and, well... You see it.

This is the problem I have though. What does it mean that the team was built around Lebron ? If it was in fact built around Lebron then management did a poor job. I have watched all of Lebron's 7 years in Cleveland and could see right off the bat that those teams were flawed even though they won a lot of games. They had no reliable 'second option'. This is even more evident now. I really don't care about them losing the players you've mentioned. There is no way a 60 win team should be this bad without a it's star player and a few role replaceable role players.

[RedBlackAttack]

Kurosawa was clearly referring to the season as a WHOLE in his post.


This team, right now, isn't better than what Wade had the last few years. I'm sorry, but they still have LeBron's #2 and #3 options on that team.

Yeah.

[Kurosawa0]

You really think you can add lebron to any 20 win team and have them win 60 games the next year?

No, but I don't think you take any of the MVP candidates from their team and you see the team play this bad.

[tpols]

Lakers record without Kobe Bryant

Kobe Bryant

1021 Games Played

676 Games Won

Kobe Bryant's Regular Season Win Percentage = .662

Lakers Win Percentage Without Kobe Bryant = .604 (95 games)

Difference = .058
The difference between the 93 bulls with jordan and the 94 bulls without jordan was 2 regular season games.

Magic Johnson came onto a team that was going to the finals in his first year.

All of the all time greats have had great teams.

Whats your point? Isn't it obvious lebron's teams have been inferior to these guys'.:confusedshrug:

[BallsOut]

All of these 'replacements' and it is somehow the same team.... Doesn't matter how much you want it to be the same team, it isn't. It doesn't matter how you compare the numbers and talk yourself into believing that all lost players were accounted for with the stellar acquisitions of Sessions and Hollins, it isn't the same team.

Different players + different coach = different team.

Yep, and this is why scientists do controlled experiments. Intelligent people understand that you can't measure a variable by changing other variables at the same time.

They lost Lebron, Shaq (paint enforcer/post presence), Delonte West (1st/2nd best perimeter defender), Big Z (backup C), Mike Brown (superior defensive coach). The Cavs aren't the same team, and one man doesn't give you back to back 60 win seasons no matter how infatuated his homer fans may be.

[branslowski]

So, if the Cavs end up with a record of say 22-60 (generous), LeBron being worth 25 wins, that means that Mike Brown, Delonte West, Z and Andy V would equal the 19 other wins the 2009 team had?

I'm sorry, but this argument is dead. Ironically, the Lakers killed it.

He's probably talking about that time Cavs won 45 games with Bron avg 30ppg 7reb 7ast, and then a year later avg 28ppg 7reb 7ast but adding Mo, and Varejoe playing 81 games, and other guy's gaining confidence with resulted in 66wins....To now them losing D West, Mike Brown, and others and Mo without his All-Star teamate that he feeds and feeds off of.....Just a thought.

[tpols]

No, but I don't think you take any of the MVP candidates from their team and you see the team play this bad.
Then why are you arguing?

Are you refusing to acknowledge that only ONE guy in the cavs top 5 performers tonight played with lebron last year?

[Kurosawa0]

Please get out of here. What was Wades number 2 options a retardedly inconsistant second year beasley and his 3rd option was Haslem?


Give me Mo and Jamieson easily.

Thx.

That Heat team actually played hard though. I guarantee you Wade is probably right with LeBron at laughing with how horrible the Cavs are.

[ctown4eva]

How the hell did the city of Cleveland and the Cavaliers emerge as the bad guys in all this? The amount of James nut huggers on these message boards is hilarious, rooting him on and wanting to see him continue to bash in the face of what is essentially a comatose individual (the Cavaliers franchise and their fans).

What the hell did Cleveland fans do to deserve this? They bent over backwards for this guy for 7 years and he repaid them by taking a dump on them on national TV.

And Cleveland= the bad guys?

:facepalm

[50inchvertical]

But, it's not a different team completely. They still have Mo, Jamison, Parker, Varejao (he played through the losing), Hickson and I think just about anyone would take Byron Scott over Mike Brown.
Exactly. Those are the guys who were supposed to be the key acquisitions to make LeBron want to stay, to take the team the next step, 2 of them were all stars. Mo had 2 tonight, Jamison had 6. Hickson was supposed to be the next Amare, he had 5. Eventually Clevelanders will smarten up and quit aggrandizing Gilbert as some sort of hero and pray LeBron returns and rescues them, on and off the court; excellent job of manipulation on Gilbert's part though.

[RedBlackAttack]

This is the problem I have though. What does it mean that the team was built around Lebron ? If it was in fact built around Lebron then management did a poor job. I have watched all of Lebron's 7 years in Cleveland and could see right off the bat that those teams were flawed even though they won a lot of games. They had no reliable 'second option'. This is even more evident now. I really don't care about them losing the players you've mentioned. There is no way a 60 win team should be this bad without a it's star player and a few role replaceable role players.
It was built for James in that it surrounded him with shooters who don't need the ball in their hands to be impactful (Mo, Gibson, Parker, West), stretch 4/5s (Jamison, Z) and hustle guys (Varejao, Moon). The only guys who were remotely capable of getting their own offense were Delonte and Shaq and both of those guys are gone, too.

And, obviously something was working right, because they won 60 games in back-to-back seasons and swept their way to a conference final. You really want me to believe that one guy was responsible for all of that? He was certainly the key, but those Cavs team were well-built, deep, and played great team defense.

Revisionist history at its finest, here.

[Indian guy]

Doesn't matter how much you want it to be the same team, it isn't.

You lost 3 fringe players nobody wanted(Shaq, Z and West) and replaced them with younger, statistically more productive players in Jamison and Sessions. I cannot even fathom how drunk you'd have to be on delusion to think Cleveland would look any different right now had they retained the EXACT same roster from last season w/o LeBron. Who the hell would score? At least in Jamison you have something resembling an option. Without him, you're looking at 2 guys who have no business being in the league anymore(Shaq & Z) and a complete nutcase in West. 'Mo is all you got. Cleveland's already ranked 29th on offense. Without Jamison, you're looking at a historically BAD offensive team. They'd struggle to break 80 on a lot of nights.

Shaq
Hickson
Moon
Parker
Mo

Bench: Z, Varejao, West, Gibson, Jamision(25 games only)

Does anyone see ^this team winning more than 25 games?

[Kurosawa0]

Then why are you arguing?

Are you refusing to acknowledge that only ONE guy in the cavs top 5 performers tonight played with lebron last year?

The idea that LeBron wasn't everything for that team...

That he didn't take a mediocre supporting cast and work miracles with them...

To deny those things, now, is honestly ridiculous. Every single thing the Cavs have shown since he left has pointed to him doing it all.

I'm sorry, but falling back on "Well, but when he upgraded from Eric Snow to Mo Williams... the team got better!" is beyond laughable.

Seriously?

[Yung D-Will]

That Heat team actually played hard though. I guarantee you Wade is probably right with LeBron at laughing with how horrible the Cavs are.

What's your point? If Wade left the heat and went to the Cavs they would be right there laughing at how horribly the heat are.

The Cavs team played hard to especially on the defensive end.

Because that's what Mike Brown was all about


Now that both have moved on from the Cavaliers, James took time after practice Tuesday with the Heat to credit his former coach for preparing him to make a smooth transition from one defensive team to another.
After leading his unit to a dominant performance in the Heat's first practice of training camp, James said there are similarities in the approach and commitment to defense.
The Cavaliers and Heat ranked among the league leaders last season in several defensive categories, including fewest points allowed and defensive field-goal percentage.
``I've come from Cleveland under Mike Brown, who was an unbelievable defensive coach,'' James said. ``I'm going to try to implement some of the things I learned from him, and bring it here.''


Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/09/29/1847604/lebron-james-credits-mike-brown.html#ixzz1Ankp6iZo

My point is that at the end of the day. Lebron's supporting cast was clearly better from top to bottom compared to Wade's

[LilBTheBasedGod]

LeBron is probably the 2nd MVP in NBA History behind Wilt? :confusedshrug:

[50inchvertical]

It was built for James in that it surrounded him with shooters who don't need the ball in their hands to be impactful (Mo, Gibson, Parker, West), stretch 4/5s (Jamison, Z) and hustle guys (Varejao, Moon). The only guys who were remotely capable of getting their own offense were Delonte and Shaq and both of those guys are gone, too.

And, obviously something was working right, because they won 60 games in back-to-back seasons and swept their way to a conference final. You really want me to believe that one guy was responsible for all of that? He was certainly the key, but those Cavs team were well-built, deep, and played great team defense.

Revisionist history at its finest, here.
Revisionist? Delonte averaged 8ppg and missed 22 games. He was not going to make a difference. Hell, he's injured now in Boston. Sessions is giving you better production than him and has not missed a game

[Kurosawa0]

There's a point where you have to move beyond dislike for the guy and give him his due.

He's an ass, but come on. You could argue that Cleveland with LeBron had the brightest future for the next five years of any team in the league (or at least in the top 5). Without him, they're far and away in the worst situation in the league. Even Charlotte is looking at that and feeling good about themselves.

[BallsOut]

You lost 3 fringe players nobody wanted(Shaq, Z and West) and replaced them with younger, statistically more productive players in Jamison and Sessions...

Stopped reading there. Atlanta, Denver, Dallas, amongst other teams inquired heavily about the availability of Big Z and Shaq. Lakers even contemplated signing Delonte West but Boston signed him.

Quit playing revisionist history, and quit making shit up. They don't help your argument at all.

[Kurosawa0]

My point is that at the end of the day. Lebron's supporting cast was clearly better from top to bottom compared to Wade's

I don't disagree with you on paper, but I just can't say with 100% certainty that Miami would've been this pathetic sans Wade.

[Mr. Jabbar]

It was built for James in that it surrounded him with shooters who don't need the ball in their hands to be impactful (Mo, Gibson, Parker, West), stretch 4/5s (Jamison, Z) and hustle guys (Varejao, Moon). The only guys who were remotely capable of getting their own offense were Delonte and Shaq and both of those guys are gone, too.

And, obviously something was working right, because they won 60 games in back-to-back seasons and swept their way to a conference final. You really want me to believe that one guy was responsible for all of that? He was certainly the key, but those Cavs team were well-built, deep, and played great team defense.

Revisionist history at its finest, here.


:applause:

[crisoner]

I think Cavs fans will hate LeBron mote after this....LOL.
I think the comment was a shot at the Cavs owner...not the smartest thing to say but oh well.

[RedBlackAttack]

You lost 3 fringe players nobody wanted(Shaq, Z and West) and replaced them with younger, statistically more productive players in Jamison and Sessions. I cannot even fathom how drunk you'd have to be on delusion to think Cleveland would look any different right now had they retained the EXACT same roster from last season w/o LeBron. Who the hell would score? At least in Jamison you have something resembling an option. Without him, you're looking at 2 guys who have no business being in the league anymore(Shaq & Z) and a complete nutcase in West. 'Mo is all you got. Cleveland's already ranked 29th on offense. Without Jamison, you're looking at a historically BAD offensive team. They'd struggle to break 80 on a lot of nights.

Shaq
Hickson
Moon
Parker
Mo

Bench: Z, Varejao, West, Gibson, Jamision(25 games only)

Does anyone see ^this team winning more than 25 games?
It doesn't matter what you project from that team. I simply said that it isn't the same team outside of the loss of James and it isn't. Clearly, we agree on that, so there is no point in continuing.

And, don't forget that Moon was deep on the bench last year, as well, so in order to have a true comparison, you would have to replace James with a sturdy starting NBA SF and return Moon to his real spot on the team from a season ago. Replacing James with a bench-warmer does not = the same team.

But, whatever helps you rationalize James being the greatest player of all-time, I guess... Or whatever you were saying earlier.

[Yung D-Will]

There's a point where you have to move behind dislike for the guy and give him his due.

He's an ass, but come on. You could argue that Cleveland with LeBron had the brightest future for the next five years of any team in the league (or at least in the top 5). Without him, they're far and away in the worst situation in the league. Even Charlotte is looking at that and feeling good about themselves.
See we're all giving him his due. You're the one who's taking it to far. Talking about worst supporting cast ever bla bla that alone should win him mvp. Just because we don't make crazy sucking statements doesn't mean we're hating. He was the man for that team he did everything just like Wade did for Miami.
But he's not the only reason they're worse this year.

But he's the biggest reason they're worse this year. Obviously because they don't have their superstar anymore.

[tpols]

The idea that LeBron wasn't everything for that team...

That he didn't take a mediocre supporting cast and work miracles with them...

To deny those things, now, is honestly ridiculous. Every single thing the Cavs have shown since he left has pointed to him doing it all.

I'm sorry, but falling back on "Well, but when he upgraded from Eric Snow to Mo Williams... the team got better!" is beyond laughable.

Seriously?
See you're using the stigma of the names that lebron played with to diminish how they all played as a TEAM. Lebron was an incredible playmaker and was able to create shots for all of those guys(who were all great shooters).

And on defense, under mike brown's system, they played great team defense. Overall, despite their names, they were playing great together and living up to expectations in the regular season. It's as simple as that.

With their confidence shattered from last year's playoffs against boston and their coach being fired(amongst other key players missing) I could see them winning 47-50 games this year if lebron had stayed with cleveland. Those factors I just mentioned and a sense of deflated confidence would make this team play much worse this year even if lebron had stayed.

[RedBlackAttack]

Revisionist? Delonte averaged 8ppg and missed 22 games. He was not going to make a difference. Hell, he's injured now in Boston. Sessions is giving you better production than him and has not missed a game
What Delonte is contributing to arguably the best team in the league and what he would do for this Cleveland roster are two completely different animals. Put West on this team and he immediately becomes our best or second best player.

[branslowski]

It doesn't matter what you project from that team. I simply said that it isn't the same team outside of the loss of James and it isn't. Clearly, we agree on that, so there is no point in continuing.

And, don't forget that Moon was deep on the bench last year, as well, so in order to have a true comparison, you would have to replace James with a sturdy starting NBA SF to have a real comparison. Replacing James with a bench-warmer does not = the same team.

But, whatever helps you rationalize James being the greatest player of all-time, I guess... Or whatever you were saying earlier.

He called him the MVPE-(Most valuable player ever)...:oldlol:

Cavs 45wins to 66 wins Bron avgs same numbers but they add Mo....Mo=Most valuable son...:oldlol:

[Kurosawa0]

It was built for James in that it surrounded him with shooters who don't need the ball in their hands to be impactful (Mo, Gibson, Parker, West), stretch 4/5s (Jamison, Z) and hustle guys (Varejao, Moon). The only guys who were remotely capable of getting their own offense were Delonte and Shaq and both of those guys are gone, too.

And, obviously something was working right, because they won 60 games in back-to-back seasons and swept their way to a conference final. You really want me to believe that one guy was responsible for all of that? He was certainly the key, but those Cavs team were well-built, deep, and played great team defense.

Revisionist history at its finest, here.

But it didn't work... Anytime the Cavs faced an elite team in the playoffs they were picked apart.

This was not a well-built team. It relied on one guy being great every single game because they never had the assets to get top level talent to next to that one guy. Several bad decisions led to the Cavs being a one man show.

It's why they lost time and time again.

[boozehound]

Is anybody perfect tho? I don't think that is the point of religion to pretend you are.

No, but when you present two religious beliefs that are completely incompatible (karma - the choices/sins you make in life determine your destiny/reincarnation/fate/soul vs. the only way to heaven is through jesus, regardless of actions, as we are all sinners), it shows that you have a very shallow understanding of your own religious beliefs.

[Indian guy]

Cleveland's roster from last season:

Shaq
Hickson
LeBron
Parker
'Mo

Bench: Z, Varejao, West, Gibson

I see 2 designated shooters at best(Parker & Gibson) and one of 'em barely plays.

I see 1 hustler(Varejao).

The rest of the roster is entirely filled with basketball players. Not specialists. They aren't very good, obviously, but they aren't on the team to provide a specific skill. Especially the front-court, which theoretically couldn't be more anti-LeBron.

So when will the built-specifically-for-LeBron crap end? And even if it was, so what? What team isn't built around their best player? Yet none of them overachieve to the extent Cleveland did. Even if we built a team around each superstars' specific strengths with the level of talent Cleveland had, those teams wouldn't win more than 50-55 games. LeBron on the other hand averaged 63 wins in 2 years with what he had. That's what makes him a miracle worker.

[tpols]

No, but when you present two religious beliefs that are completely incompatible (karma - the choices/sins you make in life determine your destiny/reincarnation/fate/soul vs. the only way to heaven is through jesus, regardless of actions, as we are all sinners), it shows that you have a very shallow understanding of your own religious beliefs.
eh.. karma has become like a mainstream phrase in the U.S. Everyone says it despite their religion.

[tpols]

Cleveland's roster from last season:

Shaq
Hickson
LeBron
Parker
'Mo

Bench: Z, Varejao, West, Gibson

I see 2 designated shooters at best(Parker & Gibson) and one of 'em barely plays.

I see 1 hustler(Varejao).

The rest of the roster is entirely filled with basketball players. Not specialists. They aren't very good, obviously, but they aren't on the team to provide a specific skill. Especially the front-court, which theoretically couldn't be more anti-LeBron.

So when will the built-specifically-for-LeBron crap end? And even if it was, so what? What team isn't built around their best player? Yet none of them overachieve to the extent Cleveland did. Even if we built a team around each superstars' specific strengths with the level of talent Cleveland had, those teams wouldn't win more than 50-55 games. LeBron on the other hand averaged 63 wins in 2 years with what he had. That's what makes him a miracle worker.
This guy's a broken record. We've already explained a thousand times the dynamics and context surrounding the cleveland cavaliers this year yet you want to keep pushing your agenda. Whatever lets you sleep dawg:cheers:

[RedBlackAttack]

But it didn't work... Anytime the Cavs faced an elite team in the playoffs they were picked apart.

This was not a well-built team. It relied on one guy being great every single game because they never had the assets to get top level talent to next to that one guy. Several bad decisions led to the Cavs being a one man show.

It's why they lost time and time again.
Not working is what you see from the Heat in the last several years... Having a Top 3 player in the league and lingering around .500.

Say what you will about the 2007, 2008, 2009 or 2010 Cavaliers, they were on an elite level that was capable of beating the big boys when things were clicking. Hell... The fact that they took the Celtics to six games last year with James barely awake shows you that they were not some pushover.

This was a team that swept its way to the conference finals the year before. If James needed the second best player in the league to win a title, he clearly wasn't ever going to reach the mountain-top in Cleveland... I thought he was better than that, though.

Guess I was wrong.

[boozehound]

eh.. karma has become like a mainstream phrase in the U.S. Everyone says it despite their religion.
he implies that it derives from his god. Perhaps Im a nitpicker (hey, who likes nits?), but it shows a lack of understanding of his own faith, which is disappointing even if common.

[tpols]

he implies that it derives from his god. Perhaps Im a nitpicker (hey, who likes nits?), but it shows a lack of understanding of his own faith, which is disappointing even if common.
Haha well what'd you expect from lebron anyways?

[Kurosawa0]

See we're all giving him his due. You're the one who's taking it to far. Talking about worst supporting cast ever bla bla that alone should win him mvp. Just because we don't make crazy sucking statements doesn't mean we're hating. He was the man for that team he did everything just like Wade did for Miami.
But he's not the only reason they're worse this year.

But he's the biggest reason they're worse this year. Obviously because they don't have their superstar anymore.

I was clearly joking that he should win the MVP because of how bad the Cavs are playing.

What I'm serious about is that this ends the argument that has been pushed that he had enough to get it done and just failed himself. He played like shit in game five of the Boston series. Still, championship teams can compensate and keep it close in those situations. They have to because all great players will have those kinds of games. The Cavs crumbled because they depended on LeBron for everything. He had to be not good, but great for them be able to beat an elite team in a series. That's not how championship teams work.

The Cavs gave LeBron the best supporting cast he'd ever had in 2010, but it still wasn't good enough. Cleveland fans want to pretend that the 2010 Cavs were the lost championship team and that it was LeBron who let them down. In reality, they need to look at the organization that gave LeBron Antwan Jamison as the best player he'd ever played with there.

[Indian guy]

It doesn't matter what you project from that team. I simply said that it isn't the same team outside of the loss of James and it isn't. Clearly, we agree on that, so there is no point in continuing.

That's all? I'm interpreting this as YOU conceding the argument. So we both agree that while a couple of faces may look different, it's apparent by the talent-level of the roster that this team has remained UNCHANGED from last season.


And, don't forget that Moon was deep on the bench last year, as well, so in order to have a true comparison, you would have to replace James with a sturdy starting NBA SF and return Moon to his real spot on the team from a season ago. Replacing James with a bench-warmer does not = the same team.

Uhh, that would totally defeat the purpose of TRULY seeing what a team's like without a certain player. If you replace LeBron with a solid starter, then it wouldn't be the same team. The goal is to FIND OUT what the same team(or a similarly talented one) is capable of without one player.


whatever helps you rationalize James being the greatest player of all-time, I guess...

I'm not spinning anything. I'm strictly sticking to the facts. I see a 60+ win team that will be lucky to win 20 games this season while pretty much retaining their whole roster from last season. I've no reason to believe LeBron isn't the MVPE by looking at the results.

[Turkododo]

http://www.myleaguepass.netne.net/viewgame/lal/cle/2011/01/11/21000560/

watch the unneccessary, indiscriminate CAVS MASSACRE

full game!

[RJChPD]

What Delonte is contributing to arguably the best team in the league and what he would do for this Cleveland roster are two completely different animals. Put West on this team and he immediately becomes our best or second best player.

Therein lies the problem. If delonte is the second best player on your team then you have problems. You need talent to beat talented teams. The Cavs organization failed in this respect. Lebron certainly didn't set the world on fire with his play against the Celtics. However, it was easy to see that the cavs struggled immensely whenever he had sub par games. This team in my opinion depended too much on one guy and it is showing here in his absence. The 09 and 10 teams also lacked the stellar defense that were staples of the 08 and 07 playoff teams.

[6thManOfTheYear]

imagine if the cavs got amare last year :lol

[Kurosawa0]

Ultimately, whether some of you like it or not, this is going to be how it will be judged. If Miami ends up with the best record in the league (or even just the East) and Cleveland is among the worst teams in the league, LeBron will forever win this argument. He still will be judged by winning or losing in Miami, but this is closing the book on what was what in Cleveland.

We can debate rosters and semantics, but at the end of the day, with LeBron Cleveland was 60+ win team. Without him, they failed to score 60 points in a game. I'm sorry, but that's how this will be played out.

[50inchvertical]

Therein lies the problem. If delonte is the second best player on your team then you have problems. You need talent to beat talented teams. The Cavs organization failed in this respect. Lebron certainly did set the world on fire with his play against the Celtics. However, it was easy to see that the cavs struggled immensely whenever he had sub par games. This team in my opinion depended too much on one guy and it is showing here in his absence. The 09 and 10 teams also lacked the stellar defense that were staples of the 08 and 07 playoff teams.
Delonte is injured again. He wouldn't be contributing shit.

[RedBlackAttack]

That's all? I'm interpreting this as YOU conceding the argument.
I'm not really even arguing. I'm saying that you can't even have this kind of argument if the team is different.

Different players + different coach = different team.

End of story. I don't really see the point in saying... "Well.... You replaced this guy with that one and he is almost as good so it is really the same team!"

And

"Scott is a better coach than Brown anyway, so it makes no difference!"

That isn't how debates like this work. It is either the same team outside of a single change or it isn't.

It isn't.... So, there is no debate.




Uhh, that would totally defeat the purpose of TRULY seeing what a team's like without a certain player. If you replace LeBron with a solid starter, then it wouldn't be the same team. The goal is to FIND OUT what the same team(or a similarly talented one) is capable of without one player.

How does it totally defeat the purpose? :oldlol:

Moon was a guy that provided depth off of the bench last year for the Cavs. With James leaving and no replacement provided, you don't just put a guy that is entirely incapable of starting effectively in this league into the starting lineup, you take away another bench player that added depth that the team had the previous year.

[boozehound]

That's all? I'm interpreting this as YOU conceding the argument. So we both agree that while a couple of faces may look different, it's apparent by the talent-level of the roster that this team has remained UNCHANGED from last season.

You are being a complete idiot in this thread. :facepalm

Losing west alone is a huge downgrade at the guard positions. Just look at the distribution of minutes (esp. with Vaj out) and you can see that the minutes at 2 of the 5 spots on the floor are completely different (3 and 5 for those of you keeping track at home) and the rotations at the other 3 (williams and crap instead of west at the 1 and 2, the 2 already their weakest position with an increased role of moon and manny harris (41 mins tonight?) due to west being shipped for nothing (terrible move IMO) and the 4 seeing very little vaj and a ton more hickson, who hasnt lived up to the overhype).

This is far from the same team talent wise outside of lebron.

[Kurosawa0]

I'm not really even arguing. I'm saying that you can't even have this kind of argument if the team is different.

Different players + different coach = different team.

It's funny, but I don't remember Cavs fans making this argument when Miami was struggling and Cleveland was hovering around .500.

If Cleveland was the fourth seed and Miami was still struggling, do you still say "Well, but this doesn't count because it's a different team"?

[Indian guy]

Ultimately, whether some of you like it or not, this is going to be how it will be judged. If Miami ends up with the best record in the league (or even just the East) and Cleveland is among the worst teams in the league, LeBron will forever win this argument. He still will be judged by winning or losing in Miami, but this is closing the book on what was what in Cleveland.

We can debate rosters and semantics, but at the end of the day, with LeBron Cleveland was 60+ win team. Without him, they failed to score 60 points in a game. I'm sorry, but that's how this will be played out.

Period.

What Cleveland's play has done is absolve LeBron of never winning a championship there. He'll still be judged by what he does in Miami, but nobody will ever look down on LeBron's Cavalier days again. That's history. The entire basketball world, deluded Cleveland fans and Kobe clowns excluded, now sits in complete amazement over what he accomplished their the last 2 seasons. And that sentiment will never change.

[RedBlackAttack]

It's funny, but I don't remember Cavs fans making this argument when Miami was struggling and Cleveland was hovering around .500.

If Cleveland was the fourth seed and Miami was still struggling, do you still say "Well, but this doesn't count because it's a different team"?
Probably not, because we wouldn't have homers running around saying that James is the greatest player ever. I wouldn't even be discussing James if it wasn't constantly thrown in my face every time the Cavs put up a horrid performance (which is often).

He is no longer a Cavalier. I don't care what he is doing down in Miami. It is the James fans that constantly feel the need to revisit this sh!t.

How many Heat game threads have I shown up in this year (either after a win or after a loss)? I don't care... I really don't. I hope they lose, but not enough to really give a sh!t.

[Kurosawa0]

I think the most interesting aspect of this isn't actually the basketball side.

I mean, has there ever been a player that has had this kind of impact on a team in terms of identity and self image? The Cavaliers have completely crumbled as not only a basketball team, but the entire organization seems to be a mess and they look mentally beaten down. I can't think of something else like this happening to a team because they lost a superstar.

This would make a good book or a documentary some day.

[Kurosawa0]

Probably not, because we wouldn't have homers running around saying that James is the greatest player ever. I wouldn't even be discussing James if it wasn't constantly thrown in my face every time the Cavs put up a horrid performance (which is often).

He is no longer a Cavalier. I don't care what he is doing down in Miami. It is the James fans that constantly feel the need to revisit this sh!t.

How many Heat game threads have I shown up in this year (either after a win or after a loss)? I don't care... I really don't. I hope they lose, but not enough to really give a sh!t.

So, then the argument only works one way? If Cleveland sucks it's more complicated than "Minus LeBron", but if Cleveland is good "LeBron Sucks"?

You can't have it both ways.

[Indian guy]

Different players + different coach = different team.

A couple of news faces does not constitute a different team. The core has remain unchanged. But I can see why you're desperately clinging to this. Much better than facing reality. Although LORD knows you would've been parading all over this board with anti-LeBron BS had Cleveland managed to be respectable this season.


How does it totally defeat the purpose? :oldlol:

Moon was a guy that provided depth off of the bench last year for the Cavs. With James leaving and no replacement provided, you don't just put a guy that is entirely incapable of starting effectively in this league into the starting lineup, you take away another bench player that added depth that the team had the previous year.

I'm a bit lost here. So you're saying Cleveland miss Moon? But he did participate in 27 games this season. If you're not saying that, then again, how would replacing him with a decent player change anything?

[boozehound]

I think the most interesting aspect of this isn't actually the basketball side.

I mean, has there ever been a player that has had this kind of impact on a team in terms of identity and self image? The Cavaliers have completely crumbled as not only a basketball team, but the entire organization seems to be a mess and they look mentally beaten down. I can't think of something else like this happening to a team because they lost a superstar.

This would make a good book or a documentary some day.
the only other superstar of this magnitude doing this in the last 2 decades (that I can think of anyways) is Shaq. and he left behind two all stars in penny and incoming grant hill. so, I dont really think there has been a comparable situation. The heat are the closest I can think of, looking at their rosters the last couple of years. starting earl barron and quinn. But they had Wade. But the rest of that roster was utter shit. So, turnarounds can happen quickly. I hope it doesnt for the cavs (as a fan of a division rival)

[Indian guy]

How many Heat game threads have I shown up in this year

Plenty when they were losing from what I recall.

[amfirst]

LeBron your next.

This new Lakers defensive scheme is pretty hard to score on. Now, they are finally applying the type of defense teams have been doing to them. I swear it took them long enough to finally figured it out. I could have taught them this years ago. The one on one defense they been using before is the dumbest defensive scheme in the NBA, u basically have absolutely no help defense. No wonder everyone was breaking the first guy down only to find a clear path to the hole.

[boozehound]

So, then the argument only works one way? If Cleveland sucks it's more complicated than "Minus LeBron", but if Cleveland is good "LeBron Sucks"?

You can't have it both ways.
where in the world are you hearing people (outside of KB stans) saying lebron sucks at basketball? Very classless tweet (kicking them while down really) if you ask me, but hes clearly a phenomenal player. You have never heard RBA say he sucks, of that I am sure.

[KOBEMAMBA24]

:roll: There are so many things wrong with that statement. Anyway, I hope Bron Bron realizes that if karma did exist, it would get around to him soon enough. You abandon a city, leave the franchise in shambles, and have the audacity to whine and laugh at someone else's sorrow.

[Quizno]

honestly, lebron is a complete child

[RedBlackAttack]

So, then the argument only works one way? If Cleveland sucks it's more complicated than "Minus LeBron", but if Cleveland is good "LeBron Sucks"?

You can't have it both ways.
Who in the world ever said that LeBron sucks? It certainly wasn't me. I'm on record as saying that he is the best player in the league. I thought he was the best player by a considerable margin heading into last year's playoffs, but I'm not as sure the gap is as large as I had imagined after his no-show against the Celtics.

I still think he is the best player, however.

This whole thing really has nothing to do with how good James is, at least from my perspective. I'm just pointing out that this isn't the same team and any effort to make a direct comparison between this year's Cavaliers and last year's Cavaliers without adding qualifiers (outside of James) is either choosing not to look at the situation objectively in favor of an agenda or they just don't know the situation.

James is a great player... Don't get it twisted.

[Clutch]

"Crazy. Karma is a b****.. Gets you every time. Its not good to wish bad on anybody. God sees everything!"

http://twitter.com/#!/KingJames/status/25061817583673344

Nice one from LeBron :lol

I agree with his act.They were all angry at him and they hate him.
Now he is on a winning streak and Cavs are lost without him,why don't make fun of them when they make fun of you ?

Maybe he didn't choose a best way to say "Goodbye" but Cavs fans must be grateful for many good years that they have,without him they would be just a losing (average at best) franchise

[KG5MVP]

:roll: There are so many things wrong with that statement. Anyway, I hope Bron Bron realizes that if karma did exist, it would get around to him soon enough. You abandon a city, leave the franchise in shambles, and have the audacity to whine and laugh at someone else's sorrow.

i think it's the cavs that owe lebron for the 7 years of fame and fortune that he brough to cleveland

[tpols]

i think it's the cavs that owe lebron for the 7 years of fame and fortune that he brough to cleveland
[I]"I got a goal, and it

[DJ Leon Smith]

Even though it seems it was primarily directed at Dan Gilbert, to say that after your former team and teammates get blown out (including just after Sideshow Bob is ruled out for the season with a serious injury), and invoking karma, it's classless to the extreme.

If LeBron did this after one of Gilbert's companies went bankrupt or whatever, then yeah knock yourself out and trash him, but putting former teammates in the firing line is wrong.

Seems as though his peers aren't too impressed with his current behavior either.

http://twitter.com/DuranLA/status/25072705229299712


Showed 2 Lakers players LeBron tweet. Eyes lit up for both. Shook heads and didn't comment

[Simple Jack]

Yes... Because these guys (most minutes played for the Cavs tonight):

Manny Harris
Samardo Samuels
Antawn Jamison
Alonzo Gee
Ramon Sessions

...were all a part of the back-to-back 60-win teams.

Replies like this would make sense if the Cavaliers weren't abysmal the last 3 years when LeBron sat out. The team that made the finals couldn't even beat the Detroit bench. Big bad Mo Williams/Delonte/Shaq/Z all missed a combined 70+ games last year with the Cavs not missing a single step.

JJ, Mo, Parker, Varejao all started at some point for the same team that was inching on the best home record of all time, tied with the Celtics and a 61 win team.

What's more logical; the fact that it's been proven the past 3 years that the team can't function without LeBron (you know, like you would expect a back-to-back 60+ win team to do) or act as if the Cavaliers downgraded enough to not attribute this unbelievable turnaround to the departure of LeBron?

[LEFT4DEAD]

[QUOTE=tpols][I]"I got a goal, and it

[thomaspynchon]

It will be fun to watch lebron choke again in the playoffs. I am looking forward to his newest round of excuses. My best bet is that he will blame it on wade being a ball hog.

[Lebron23]

It will be fun to watch lebron choke again in the playoffs. I am looking forward to his newest round of excuses. My best bet is that he will blame it on wade being a ball hog.

Shut up.

[thomaspynchon]

Shut up.

Why?

[Walduś]

It will be fun to watch lebron choke again in the playoffs. I am looking forward to his newest round of excuses. My best bet is that he will blame it on wade being a ball hog.
I can't wait too :cheers:

[Simple Jack]

I can't wait too :cheers:

Why do you bother posting? I've seen probably 50 of your posts and not a single one contributed to the discussion in any conceivable way.

[oh the horror]

***** about who you lost last yr, but all of the production has been replaced.

Shaq would have been "injured" and checked out on the season by now if he was there. He's only giving Boston 10 and 5, pretty much what Hickson is getting right now. Last yr he was 12 and 6.7 in the reg season, down to 11 and 5.5 in the playoffs.


This is speculation on your part. You cant base anything on what "would" he have been giving. Shaq still contributes to a team, and his size does matter. End of story.




Delonte has only played 5 games and is averaging 6.8ppg. Even last yr, he averaged 8.8 and missed over 25% of the season.

Big Z is giving you 6 and 5 this season, 7 and 5 last season. In the playoffs he gave you 11 and 8.

Now let's look at their replacements.

Ramon Sessions is giving Cleveland 10 and 3 and hasn't missed a game.

JJ Hickson is giving you 10 and 5 and can at least move.

Leon Powe gives you 5 and 3 in 14 minutes, Ryan Hollins adds 5 and 2 in 13 minutes, AV (now out for season) gives you 9 and 10 in 32 minutes slightly up from 8 and 9 last season, Samardo Samuels give you 3 pts in 5 minutes.

Basically, you have more than replaced the meager production of those other 3 guys with no dropoff.

The common missing denominator is LeBron.

And furthermore, the field goal % of every player on the team has dropped by 5% along with their ppgs. That "supporting cast" is trash.



Right, except ball doesnt work that way dude....it isnt as simple as:


Well player A is gone, but we replaced him with player B who has similar stats, so it should be a similar team right?


No.


One team is assembled one way, chemistry, and how players fit into an active roster play a role. Basketball is a free flowing game. Little things matter. They lost a huge chunk, only to get back players that cannot seemingly fill the void, just with stats alone.

[Simple Jack]

This is speculation on your part. You cant base anything on what "would" he have been giving. Shaq still contributes to a team, and his size does matter. End of story.





Right, except ball doesnt work that way dude....it isnt as simple as:


Well player A is gone, but we replaced him with player B who has similar stats, so it should be a similar team right?


No.


One team is assembled one way, chemistry, and how players fit into an active roster play a role. Basketball is a free flowing game. Little things matter. They lost a huge chunk, only to get back players that cannot seemingly fill the void, just with stats alone.

Is this the only team in NBA history built like this? Don't you expect a 60+ win team to at least have enough talent to win more than 10 games at this point, or at least not go 1-20? Teams shouldn't be as good without their star, clearly; but you would think they could at least win games. 1-12 without LeBron his last 13 missed. To the people claiming his supporting cast was talented, did you all predict they would lose almost every one of those games? Or that each player would suffer such a huge dropoff this year resulting in one of the worst records in the league?

The only people that predicted it right seem to be the people who were able to admit, during his tenure and ever after, how untalented that team was relative to other contending (and some even BAD) teams.

[coin24]

Im hoping the heat win so all the Lebron haters can go and kill themselves..

So sick of the Lebron hate of everything he does, twitter, comments, even his hairline etc etc...



I cant believe people are making excuses as to why the cavs are losing now, it was basically the same team as last year before all the injuries. Shaq was a non factor last yr same as big z.. Only one you can argue is Delonte and even he was playing shit, he was out for medical or suspension aswell...

Is it that hard for some people to admit Lebron was the cavs???


Id be laughing if i was lebron aswell.. After all he did for them he gets shat all over:facepalm

So what if he quit in 1 game, or promised a ring, he pretty much averaged a triple double in how many playoff series for them, when the rest of the team was a pile of shit:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[The Iron Fist]

Let's not try to hide behind semantics. Cleveland's core from last season have all played 30+ games this year, and Cleveland still managed to post the worst win % in the league with all of 'em healthy. LeBron's firmly established himself as the MVPE(Most Valuable Player Ever) this season.


Clevelands core from last year have played all 30+ games this year?

I don't recall Shaq, Z or Delonte playing any games for the Cavs this year.

Those 3 guys, plus Lebron, were a huge part of the game plan.

Lebron isn't the only piece missing from that squad.

[ginobli2311]

This is speculation on your part. You cant base anything on what "would" he have been giving. Shaq still contributes to a team, and his size does matter. End of story.





Right, except ball doesnt work that way dude....it isnt as simple as:


Well player A is gone, but we replaced him with player B who has similar stats, so it should be a similar team right?


No.


One team is assembled one way, chemistry, and how players fit into an active roster play a role. Basketball is a free flowing game. Little things matter. They lost a huge chunk, only to get back players that cannot seemingly fill the void, just with stats alone.

yes. that is true, but what everyone seems to ignore is that is the very definition of a flawed team. i guarantee you that any other team in history that won over 66 games would not fall apart like this after losing its best player.

and again. they replaced some guys with better players. sessions is simply better than last year's delonte (and delonte missed a ton of time)...jamison is playing well and he only played 25 games last year. hickson is getting more minutes.

here's the thing. if lebron was still on the cavs....they would be at worst a 55 win team. so say what you want....this year is simple proof that he had a laughable supporting cast in terms of winning the title.

nobody is saying "they are the worst cast ever"...they won 60 back to back. they were decent. but they weren't good enough to win titles....and this year blows up any notion that the cavs should have ever been title favorites or really even contenders. i know it sucks for haters...but just give up. the haters have lost. pick another battle now. this one is over.

[The Iron Fist]

Name me one player in NBA history who was more valuable to his team than LeBron to Cleveland the last 2 seasons. We are talking about a guy worth 40 wins to his team. Nobody sniffs that type of value.


Kareem.


Bucks year before Kareem, 27-55.
Rookie year, 56-26.


And no, Lebron isn't worth 40 wins. Half of the core is missing as well. No Shaq, no Delonte, no Z.

[oh the horror]

Is this the only team in NBA history built like this? Don't you expect a 60+ win team to at least have enough talent to win more than 10 games at this point, or at least not go 1-20? Teams shouldn't be as good without their star, clearly; but you would think they could at least win games. 1-12 without LeBron his last 13 missed. To the people claiming his supporting cast was talented, did you all predict they would lose almost every one of those games? Or that each player would suffer such a huge dropoff this year resulting in one of the worst records in the league?

The only people that predicted it right seem to be the people who were able to admit, during his tenure and ever after, how untalented that team was relative to other contending (and some even BAD) teams.



Bro, im scratching my head at the Cavs this season like everyone else is. I EXPECTED way more out of this team, than what they're currently producing. I mean christ....not even double digit wins thus far? It ALMOST ALMOST has me thinking that they have to be tanking on purpose, right??

[Scoooter]

Last year's Cav's team was completely built around LeBron. Each player complimented what he wanted to do on the court. He was like the mainspring in a nice watch. That's what happens when an organization caters to their stars every whim. Now, I understand he probably wanted Amar'e, but they did the best they could there.

I don't why LeBron has any problem with the Cavs. Dan Gilbert, maybe, but this tweet seems really douchey. He's really taking to the bad guy role.

[coin24]

Clevelands core from last year have played all 30+ games this year?

I don't recall Shaq, Z or Delonte playing any games for the Cavs this year.

Those 3 guys, plus Lebron, were a huge part of the game plan.

Lebron isn't the only piece missing from that squad.

Wrong.

Delonte missed a lot of time, remember the gun charges and mental health issues??

Shaq was only just getting into shape when big baby broke his thumb then he was done. Only came back in time for playoffs and was barely used..

Z was almost a non factor except for hitting open jumpers every now and then..



Main guys were mo, varejao, jj etc. They are nothing without Lebron why is it so hard for people to accept??!?!



Except now they are in obvious tank mode because they are worse than shit!:lol

[The Iron Fist]

Wrong.

Delonte missed a lot of time, remember the gun charges and mental health issues??

Shaq was only just getting into shape when big baby broke his thumb then he was done. Only came back in time for playoffs and was barely used..

Z was almost a non factor except for hitting open jumpers every now and then..



Main guys were mo, varejao, jj etc. They are nothing without Lebron why is it so hard for people to accept??!?!



Except now they are in obvious tank mode because they are worse than shit!:lol



Alot of time is half the season or more, he played in 60.


No matter how you guys try to paint it, its not the same team.

Its like buying a souped up car. You then take of the rims and tires and replace them with stocks. You take off the loud muffler. You replace the blaring sound system it once had, with a tape deck and tweeters.

Its still the same year and make, but its not the same car as the major components that made it what is was,

are now gone.

[zizozain]

Even though it seems it was primarily directed at Dan Gilbert, to say that after your former team and teammates get blown out (including just after Sideshow Bob is ruled out for the season with a serious injury), and invoking karma, it's classless to the extreme.

If LeBron did this after one of Gilbert's companies went bankrupt or whatever, then yeah knock yourself out and trash him, but putting former teammates in the firing line is wrong.

Seems as though his peers aren't too impressed with his current behavior either.

http://twitter.com/DuranLA/status/25072705229299712

best post in this thread ...
now we know who moved on and got over it and who did not

[Simple Jack]

Alot of time is half the season or more, he played in 60.


No matter how you guys try to paint it, its not the same team.

Its like buying a souped up car. You then take of the rims and tires and replace them with stocks. You take off the loud muffler. You replace the blaring sound system it once had, with a tape deck and tweeters.

Its still the same year and make, but its not the same car as the major components that made it what is was,

are now gone.

Stop using a car analogy. A car isn't capable of it's individual parts "stepping up" to make it run. MJ was the motor, if you will, of that Bulls team, but it still ran, albeit not as well, when he left that year. Is it because the carborator decided it needed to "take over"? Seriously; it's a stupid, overused analogy that doesn't clearly identify the situation nor it's context.

I'd be inclined to acknowledge your argument if the Cavaliers actually slowed down when these "important" parts got injured. The fact is, they didn't.

[coin24]

Its like last year when lebron sat out for a few games at the end of the year..

The cavs looked completely lost out there, fumbled the ball, turned it over, and lost every game he sat out:facepalm

I made a point of it then and got told, nah u mad etc they will dominate in the playoffs, best team etc:facepalm

Dont give me this shit about "built around lebron" they are supposed to be professional bball players.. Its funny how mo/jj "step up" when lebron is around huh... Maybe its him creating for them??????


Its different now though i guess, even the scrubs he played with are out injured and they have even scrubbier scrubs if thats even possible:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

When your missing moon, varejao, boobie as your best players you know you are in deep shit!:lol :lol

[The Iron Fist]

Stop using a car analogy. A car isn't capable of it's individual parts "stepping up" to make it run. MJ was the motor, if you will, of that Bulls team, but it still ran, albeit not as well, when he left that year. Is it because the carborator decided it needed to "take over"? Seriously; it's a stupid, overused analogy that doesn't clearly identify the situation nor it's context.

I'd be inclined to acknowledge your argument if the Cavaliers actually slowed down when these "important" parts got injured. The fact is, they didn't.


Actually, the analogy works great seeing as how car parts can be upgraded at any time,

just like a team can upgrade its roster.

[Simple Jack]

Actually, the analogy works great seeing as how car parts can be upgraded at any time,

just like a team can upgrade its roster.

The problem is, a cars individual parts cant make up for a part that's missing. No engine = car doesn't run. No "best player" - team should still be able to play (at a non-embarassingly low level)

[SIRI1]

Going back to the whole Karma thing. Dan Gilbert mentioned Karma in his hate letter...

But the good news is that this heartless and callous action can only serve as the antidote to the so-called "curse" on Cleveland, Ohio.

The self-declared former "King" will be taking the "curse" with him down south. And until he does "right" by Cleveland and Ohio, James (and the town where he plays) will unfortunately own this dreaded spell and bad karma

I'm guessing that's why Lebron specifically mentioned karma.

[Harrison_Barnes]

The HEEL!

I'm enjoying bad guy LeBron more than I've ever enjoyed good guy LeBron.

Me too.. but I didn't really like Good guy LeBron at all. :lol

[AirTupac]

I wonder what is going through Gilberts head. :lol

[niko]

Haha. See, LEbron is capable of coherent sentences that make total sense. WOW, he shat on them...

[Reikon]

Did he just use B**** and God in the same breath ... yes, LeBron God does see everything, just like that statement.

Not only that, but he used "karma", which has nothing excludes the concept of God - The Holy Trinity, and I assume he's some form of christian.

Next time he should think a bit before writing.

[EricForman]

i said all along that lebron has never had a cast better than "mediocre" until the second half of the 2010 season. people made big deals about his teams losing in the playoffs after winning 66 games. but Bron actually overachieved by leading those teams to 66 (and 61?) wins, they then lost to teams with superior talent in the playoffs. Aside from the Boston series of 2010, Bron shouldn't have gotten any flack for losing in playoffs becuase they always lost to teams with far more talent.

i don't like bron, he's arrogant and a prick, but he's been the most dominant player in the NBA for the past 4 years HANDS DOWN, it's insane people are just starting to realize this. i still remember having to defend Bron in arguments vs Melo (MELO? LOL) and the like as recently, as like, early 2010. I mean come on.

the 2009 Cavs has to have the worst 2-12 in the history of all "elite teams" (teams that win over 64 games).

[madmax]

Lebron must trully be a miracle worker to push that team to NBA finals and multiple 60+ seasons...I can't imagine other player in NBA history having such an impact on the floor. Yet some morons still think it was his "fault" he lost to much superior teams in the playoffs...:facepalm

[KingBeasley08]

The HEEL!

I'm enjoying bad guy LeBron more than I've ever enjoyed good guy LeBron.
this :lol

[wally_world]

Will come back to haunt him this postseason :lol

[asdf1990]

Is it really a surprise that the cabs suck? Anyone who watched the cabs games the past 6 years knows that whenever lebron went out of the game they struggled to find baskets.

And to all the ppl acting like lebron is a douche, f off. Every dog has his day, u think lebron isn't a human? The cavs fans were pushing the whole Delonte west thing in that cavs game, the owner was a ungrateful *****. Lebron like any human being is enjoying the misery of ppl who talked shit about him and his mom. If someone talked so much shit about me and my mom I would be happy to if they suffered.

People wanted him to embrace the Villain role and now he has yet people are still not satisfied. NBA would be a lot better if the player. Weren't always saying PC all the time.

[mashbelly]

Is it really a surprise that the cabs suck? Anyone who watched the cabs games the past 6 years knows that whenever lebron went out of the game they struggled to find baskets.

And to all the ppl acting like lebron is a douche, f off. Every dog has his day, u think lebron isn't a human? The cavs fans were pushing the whole Delonte west thing in that cavs game, the owner was a ungrateful *****. Lebron like any human being is enjoying the misery of ppl who talked shit about him and his mom. If someone talked so much shit about me and my mom I would be happy to if they suffered.

People wanted him to embrace the Villanueva role and now he has yet people are still not satisfied. NBA would be a lot better if the player. Weren't always saying PC all the time.

"Villanueva role"?

[Kurosawa0]

Who in the world ever said that LeBron sucks? It certainly wasn't me. I'm on record as saying that he is the best player in the league. I thought he was the best player by a considerable margin heading into last year's playoffs, but I'm not as sure the gap is as large as I had imagined after his no-show against the Celtics.

I still think he is the best player, however.

This whole thing really has nothing to do with how good James is, at least from my perspective. I'm just pointing out that this isn't the same team and any effort to make a direct comparison between this year's Cavaliers and last year's Cavaliers without adding qualifiers (outside of James) is either choosing not to look at the situation objectively in favor of an agenda or they just don't know the situation.

James is a great player... Don't get it twisted.

I would say that deny that LeBron was everything for that Cavs team would be an indirect way of putting him down at this point.

[Hulk Hogan]

I'm bookmarking this thread for May... Gonna be lots of lulz!! :oldlol:

[Yung D-Will]

I would say that deny that LeBron was everything for that Cavs team would be an indirect way of putting him down at this point.
And I would say that you're talking from a Lebron homers point of view. We acknowledged Lebron was mostly everything for the Cavs. You're the one who fails to aknowlage there were other signifigent factors that make comparing the team this year to the one last year close to illogical.

[Naruto-sama]

the Cav's have no heart. they could be one of the worst teams in NBA history. between this game and the one against the Heat they need to ship everyone out especially Mo. Mo is such an awful leader and deserves to be completely humiliated. i can't stand Mo Williams.

Hickson is such a dumb player too. he reminds me of tyrus when he was with the Bulls. both liked to take those midrange even tho they rarely made them.

i don't blame jamison as much, other than he should be demanding a trade by this point and bailing on that heartless squad.

Lakers D completely pwnd them last night. anytime they tried to penetrate 2 would step in and close the lane, where they were just taking dumb shots or perimeter bricks. Cav's were just pitiful. altho they were extremely undersized vs the Lakers.

that said i hope Lebron breaks his leg and the Cav's owner makes a twitter statement talking about karma :lol:

[yeaaaman]

And I would say that you're talking from a Lebron homers point of view. We acknowledged Lebron was mostly everything for the Cavs. You're the one who fails to aknowlage there were other signifigent factors that make comparing the team this year to the one last year close to illogical.

I skipped through a bunch of pages but in any case I'm not a Lebron homer by any stretch but I feel confident in saying I don't care much about the other factors and if they were present on this years team they wouldn't be much better. I predicted the Cavs to be terrible this year just like I predicted the Raptors to be terrible this year. The other players on the team, even with the players that they had lost, the coaches, the "system", whatever, would not have been significantly greater than they are now. I feel extremely confident that Lebron alone was the overwhelming factor in the teams success, which I'm sure no one denies, but I just don't think those other guys are significant factors.

I don't even see whats illogical about that seeing as how the New Jersey Nets went from from a 34 win team who were competitive and had a chance for the 8th playoff spot in the East up until near the end to a 12 win team competing with the worst record in league history, all by losing basically Vince Carter alone. I'm not comparing the role players of last years Cavs to the role players of the Nets 2 years ago or Lebron to Vince, just simply pointing out that its not outside the realm of possibility for someone to be such a large factor in a teams turnaround. I think its clear that Lebron was the most important factor with so little room for even considering other factors. Thats how important he was for them. Just my two cents.

[asdf1990]

"Villanueva role"?

idk iphone changed villain to villanueva lol idk why

[NauruDude]

:oldlol:

yep karma is a bytch and i will be lol'ing when bronzy is going to have career ending injury. :oldlol:

haha
Haha I think LeBron or Wade will have career ending injurys. Just thinking about, how a season long injury for one of Wade, Bosh and James would derail Miami much. It would make them about the same strength as NYC,MIL,ATL

[Skywalker]

lmao at mo will's tweets

latest one "cant show face in cleve"

[kkling]

..

If you ever defend Lebron on this forum you are automatically a Lebron homer, as dubbed by the Lebron haters.

[DCL]

dan gilbert gotta be the most butt-hurt owner in the entire history of professional sports.

[R.I.P.]

The "bad boy" persona comes naturally to LeBron. He can be his dumb self. He just says the things that come to his simple mind. He doesn

[strifed169]

serves cavs owner right thinking he could cast a hex on someone being a white guy

[kkling]

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]The "bad boy" persona comes naturally to LeBron. He can be his dumb self. He just says the things that come to his simple mind. He doesn

[da dream]

how? Is gilbert out there shooting 1-9? While he may mean the organization, the people out there getting embarrassed were his dance buddies and sidekicks/cronies. pretty poor taste if you ask me.

You can take the kid out of the hood.....
but without any attempt at an education, hes just a rich hoodrat with that mentality. thank you


remember the letter gilbert wrote after lebron's decision? this is clearly a shot at dan gilbert. not the cavs players.

[ctown4eva]

Im hoping the heat win so all the Lebron haters can go and kill themselves..

So sick of the Lebron hate of everything he does, twitter, comments, even his hairline etc etc...



I cant believe people are making excuses as to why the cavs are losing now, it was basically the same team as last year before all the injuries. Shaq was a non factor last yr same as big z.. Only one you can argue is Delonte and even he was playing shit, he was out for medical or suspension aswell...

Is it that hard for some people to admit Lebron was the cavs???


Id be laughing if i was lebron aswell.. After all he did for them he gets shat all over:facepalm

So what if he quit in 1 game, or promised a ring, he pretty much averaged a triple double in how many playoff series for them, when the rest of the team was a pile of shit:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:


After all he did for them?

Like dictating every direction the team makes for 7 years and then quitting and bailing on them in the most humiliating fashion imaginable AND then going out of his way to humiliate them further months later?

Yep, what a swell dude! :lol

[gts]

remember the letter gilbert wrote after lebron's decision? this is clearly a shot at dan gilbert. not the cavs players.dan gilbert wasn't on the floor getting his ass handed to him...

[DJ Leon Smith]

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]The "bad boy" persona comes naturally to LeBron. He can be his dumb self. He just says the things that come to his simple mind. He doesn

[da dream]

Dear Cleveland, All Of Northeast Ohio and Cleveland Cavaliers Supporters Wherever You May Be Tonight;

As you now know, our former hero, who grew up in the very region that he deserted this evening, is no longer a Cleveland Cavalier.

This was announced with a several day, narcissistic, self-promotional build-up culminating with a national TV special of his "decision" unlike anything ever "witnessed" in the history of sports and probably the history of entertainment.

Clearly, this is bitterly disappointing to all of us.

The good news is that the ownership team and the rest of the hard-working, loyal, and driven staff over here at your hometown Cavaliers have not betrayed you nor NEVER will betray you.

There is so much more to tell you about the events of the recent past and our more than exciting future. Over the next several days and weeks, we will be communicating much of that to you.

You simply don't deserve this kind of cowardly betrayal.

You have given so much and deserve so much more.

In the meantime, I want to make one statement to you tonight:

"I PERSONALLY GUARANTEE THAT THE CLEVELAND CAVALIERS WILL WIN AN NBA CHAMPIONSHIP BEFORE THE SELF-TITLED FORMER 'KING' WINS ONE"

You can take it to the bank.

If you thought we were motivated before tonight to bring the hardware to Cleveland, I can tell you that this shameful display of selfishness and betrayal by one of our very own has shifted our "motivation" to previously unknown and previously never experienced levels.

Some people think they should go to heaven but NOT have to die to get there.

Sorry, but that's simply not how it works.

This shocking act of disloyalty from our home grown "chosen one" sends the exact opposite lesson of what we would want our children to learn. And "who" we would want them to grow-up to become.

But the good news is that this heartless and callous action can only serve as the antidote to the so-called "curse" on Cleveland, Ohio.

The self-declared former "King" will be taking the "curse" with him down south. And until he does "right" by Cleveland and Ohio, James (and the town where he plays) will unfortunately own this dreaded spell and bad karma.
Just watch.

Sleep well, Cleveland.

Tomorrow is a new and much brighter day....

I PROMISE you that our energy, focus, capital, knowledge and experience will be directed at one thing and one thing only:

DELIVERING YOU the championship you have long deserved and is long overdue....


Dan Gilbert
Majority Owner
Cleveland Cavaliers



GTS does this letter convince you? Lebron is using Gilbert's words, you don't think there is any connection?? The fact Gilbert wished nothing good for Lebron, and now cleveland is the one who is awful and got embarressed.

[DKLaker]

Lebron is just building his legacy.......of the biggest idiot/a-hole in NBA History. We ARE all witnesses :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Rockets(T-mac)]

This clown really doesn't know when to shut up does he?

[ronniec]

Hope Gilbert and the Cavs make him pays for saying that... then he will know what karma means.
Yeah, I believe God sees everything, including what he did to the Cleveland fans, and his jack@$$ "Decision" TV show.

[BallsOut]

dan gilbert gotta be the most butt-hurt owner in the entire history of professional sports.

First the Nike repair-image commercial, and now this. Last thing we've heard from Gilbert is the letter, which was pretty long ago. Seems like Lebron is the one that's butthurt.

[PowerGlove]

GTS does this letter convince you? Lebron is using Gilbert's words, you don't think there is any connection?? The fact Gilbert wished nothing good for Lebron, and now cleveland is the one who is awful and got embarressed.
Shh... let the hate continue. I find it funny people are constantly insulting everything related to Lebron James.

[alenleomessi]

King James :rockon:
Shhhh Haters :blah

[HB40TheNextStar]

Should expect nothing less from an asshole.

[SebasMiamiFan]

Am I the only one who realizes this was a knock on Dan Gilbert and not Cleveland? :confusedshrug:

[DropStep]

Am I the only one who realizes this was a knock on Dan Gilbert and not Cleveland? :confusedshrug:
Only some Lakers, Cleveland fans dont realize that.

[Meticode]

I'm over it.

And, it isn't a big deal that he used the word... Just funny that he used it in the same tweet that he brought up his Christian god in. He opened the door... I just walked through it.

No one is ever going to confuse James for a university scholar.
If you were over it you wouldn't be posting in this thread replying and commenting on what LeBron posted on Twitter attacking him for his use of a word in my personal experience that is used loosely all the time. Just a simply observation. You say you're over it, but I don't see it.

[Penny_Hardaway]

:oldlol:

yep karma is a bytch and i will be lol'ing when bronzy is going to have career ending injury. :oldlol:


You are seriously RE-TARDED if you wish about that happening.

[gts]

Am I the only one who realizes this was a knock on Dan Gilbert and not Cleveland? :confusedshrug:no everybody realizes that but he made his point at the expense of his ex teammates, they were the ones getting embarrassed on the floor, not gilbert... there were much better ways for lebron to get his point across without throwing the cavs players under the bus...

like so many of lebron's decisions it's not what he does, it's how he executes it

[Irish]

I think I will stop disliking LeBron for his apparent douchiness and embrace his new role in the league as the villain. Sometimes I think he is deliberately trolling the league. Keep it up, makes for entertaining viewing.

[RedBlackAttack]

If you were over it you wouldn't be posting in this thread replying and commenting on what LeBron posted on Twitter attacking him for his use of a word in my personal experience that is used loosely all the time. Just a simply observation. You say you're over it, but I don't see it.
:oldlol:

I was f#cking around, for goodness sake. When did this forum become so uptight?

Yeah.... I'm really offended that James used karma and God in the same tweet... Although I am an admitted agnostic with no religious ties.

Also, I will forever make fun of the stupid things that he says because, frankly, they are funny to me... Not because he left Cleveland.

Lighten up, guys.

[R.I.P.]

Not true. If he really wanted to hide behind the "dumb" persona he wouldn't have to explain himself when called out (see the "contraction" garbage).

No. I

[ace_gold_26]

It was directed to dan gilbert and he deserved it after what he said about lebron james. I dont understand why people call him a sellout he gave you 7 good years he was a free agent he should go were ever he wants to go. I dont agree with the way he did it but he was a free agent. He didnt quit against boston they are just a great defensive team and one player cant beat a great team they destroyed orlando and shut down kobe in the finals.

[lpublic_enemyl]

bron destroyed Cleavland and stole their soul after beating them, the cavs have not been the same since