Coach Nick of Bball Breakdown KILLS Jerry West:

[jrong]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMp7c2bcfkk

I lifted this video from RGM. It's his retro-breakdown of the famous Game 7 of the 1970 NBA Finals between the Lakers/ Knicks. And what he exposes is that West frequently dribbled with his right hand while going left.

I have to be honest-- this video does make me rethink where I rank West all-time. I understand that to a certain extent, cross-generational player comparisons have to be made within the context of how players played relative to the competition in their respective eras. But, this video, wow... just watch it.

[Sakkreth]

He also showed that he can drible with his left in this video, he just doesn't use his left if he's sure that the ball won't get stolen anyways, so it's no difference.

[jlip]

There was a thread done here on ISH about this very video about a month ago, and one of the posters showed multiple pictures of West dribbling with his left hand going right. The most popular image of West is actually the NBA logo itself which happens to be his silouhette. In that very image he is dribbling with his left hand.

[8BeastlyXIOAD]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Imagine Michael Beasley playing in the 70's

[Rekindled]

this game was one of the reason why wilt shouldnt be ranked in top5 of all time. dude got so scared by Willis Reed playing on 1 leg, he did nothing the rest of the game lol

[jrong]

He also showed that he can drible with his left in this video, he just doesn't use his left if he's sure that the ball won't get stolen anyways, so it's no difference.

The video shows Clyde Frazier pick the ball from him and score because he was going left and dribbling with his right hand.

[IGOTGAME]

Horrible breakdown....Players today still do that. He took a wide angle and was hopping while bringing the ball up. That has nothing to do with handle, I have seen guys like John Stockton, and Chris Paul do the same thing. If you reach in they are just going to blow by you and they know that. Horrible video...I'd like to see all the guys today that would continually rip Jerry West.

[chips93]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Imagine Michael Beasley playing in the 70's


new account again??? wtf?

[chains5000]

Does this mean this era's coaches >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 70's coaches?
I mean, it was easy as hell to stop West, even non NBA coaches know how to nowadays.



:rolleyes:

[Hammertime]

The video shows Clyde Frazier pick the ball from him and score because he was going left and dribbling with his right hand.

If it was that easy and if it was that glaring of a hole in this game, wouldn't he have been exploited more and consequently, have been a much worse player?

People love to point to deficiencies in a player's game and then claim that it would somehow prevent a player from succeeding at the highest level. A sort of popular belief has been created that you cannot possibly be a great basketball player unless you're about 6'5-6'9, black, quick, have a high vert and a wicked crossover.

Yes, Jerry West did not dribble with his left, and consequently, would probably have to avoid going left at all in today's league. He'd be far from the only star with glaring holes in their game.

Shaq shoots FTs worse than grade-schoolers, so conventional logic used to claim he'd be a liability in close games. How many close playoff games has Shaq cost his different teams on account of missed FTs? Shawn Marion has an ugly, ugly shot. He's hit half his shots for the career and a third of his threes. Does he get blocked a lot because he starts his shot from the chest, as conventional logic would say?

What about Kidd early in his career, when he was shooting in the .300s from the field? According to the logic of Rubio haters, if you can't hit a jumpshot, defense doesn't worry about you and you can't set your teammates up as well. Sure didn't stop Kidd from being a great distributor even back then. I could go on and on with examples.

The point I'm trying to make is that really talented players compensate for their weaknesses. Even Jordan had them. He couldn't really shoot threes consistently, but was he habitually left open beyond the arc? Hell no. Many current quality players, if you saw their college or overseas highlights and did not know they were in the NBA, would seem like they couldn't cut it in the league. The idea that West would be an automatic turnover every time he came down the court in today's league is very naive.

[G.O.A.T]

This guy is a goof, anyone over the age of 25 that goes by coach (insert first name here) is a douche.

If you know anything about the triangle offense, watch his video "breakdowns" of it where he gets basic terminology wrong and doesn't even understand the options off each pass.

I can't stand guys like this, I meet them everywhere I go, people who think they are coaches because they put the money up for an AAU team, he'd fit in great here at ISH with the other uninformed no-it-alls.

[wpdougie2180]

this game was one of the reason why wilt shouldnt be ranked in top5 of all time. dude got so scared by Willis Reed playing on 1 leg, he did nothing the rest of the game lol

What???? Didn't Wilt have a 20+ point, 20+ rebound game while holding the aforementioned Reed to 4. Meanwhile West (no knock on him) was getting slaughter to the tune of 36/19/7 with countless steals by Frazier to put that on Wilt is ridiculous. Back on topic a couple of highlights doesn't show what a player could do on the court the sooner people realize that the better.

[G.O.A.T]

this game was one of the reason why wilt shouldnt be ranked in top5 of all time. dude got so scared by Willis Reed playing on 1 leg, he did nothing the rest of the game lol

Reed was not a notable factor in the game other than running down that tunnel. There was nothing Wilt could have done about that.

I think he should have been more assertive considering he scored almost 50 the previous game, but he was like 1-10 from the line that game, so he was reluctant to go to the rim. He did have 24 of his teams 49 rebounds, which was as many as the top two Knicks players combined.

[jrong]

This guy is a goof, anyone over the age of 25 that goes by coach (insert first name here) is a douche.

If you know anything about the triangle offense, watch his video "breakdowns" of it where he gets basic terminology wrong and doesn't even understand the options off each pass.

I can't stand guys like this, I meet them everywhere I go, people who think they are coaches because they put the money up for an AAU team, he'd fit in great here at ISH with the other uninformed no-it-alls.

He also does video-breakdowns of current NBA games, and he rips all of today's players too. I think he's kind of obnoxious, actually.

And I'm not suggesting that West would be J.R. Smith's ***** or anything like that. I'm sure he'd still be a perennial all-star today.

But, put it this way, before seeing this, I would have never thought of comparing a player like say, Clyde Drexler, to West. Although Drexler had dribbling-related issues of his own....


....The other thing that for me is something I have to take account of, is the overall speed at which the players are moving collectively. While you can certainly see some of the skills that players widely seemed to possess that are lost arts today, the players are also moving in slow-motion by modern standards.

(The personal analogy that came to mind is my alma mater's D3 soccer team when we play the better D1 schools. My school is kind of like the D3 soccer equivalent of UConn women's basketball (google it if you want to know who we are). We've won 8 out of the last 11 national titles. And we do play D1 schools and beat a lot of them. We can probably beat the bottom half of all D1 teams.

But, when we play D1 teams in say the 50 - 75 percentile, there's no difference in skill; in fact, often we're superior in that department. But, D3 schools don't get the super-stud athletes. And athletically, we just can't keep up....)

[VoltFaceCons]

Awesome video and awesome channel. Thanks for posting.


And did I hear him say that his hand was hurt in that video? I'm pretty sure he did.

[Kblaze8855]

Gary Payton did the same thing. Shit Gary would do right handed layups on the left side

[XxSMSxX]

If it was that easy and if it was that glaring of a hole in this game, wouldn't he have been exploited more and consequently, have been a much worse player?

People love to point to deficiencies in a player's game and then claim that it would somehow prevent a player from succeeding at the highest level. A sort of popular belief has been created that you cannot possibly be a great basketball player unless you're about 6'5-6'9, black, quick, have a high vert and a wicked crossover.

Yes, Jerry West did not dribble with his left, and consequently, would probably have to avoid going left at all in today's league. He'd be far from the only star with glaring holes in their game.

Shaq shoots FTs worse than grade-schoolers, so conventional logic used to claim he'd be a liability in close games. How many close playoff games has Shaq cost his different teams on account of missed FTs? Shawn Marion has an ugly, ugly shot. He's hit half his shots for the career and a third of his threes. Does he get blocked a lot because he starts his shot from the chest, as conventional logic would say?

What about Kidd early in his career, when he was shooting in the .300s from the field? According to the logic of Rubio haters, if you can't hit a jumpshot, defense doesn't worry about you and you can't set your teammates up as well. Sure didn't stop Kidd from being a great distributor even back then. I could go on and on with examples.

The point I'm trying to make is that really talented players compensate for their weaknesses. Even Jordan had them. He couldn't really shoot threes consistently, but was he habitually left open beyond the arc? Hell no. Many current quality players, if you saw their college or overseas highlights and did not know they were in the NBA, would seem like they couldn't cut it in the league. The idea that West would be an automatic turnover every time he came down the court in today's league is very naive.


The funniest thing about this is that most of the fancy crossovers you see today are all mostly blatant carries, that would have been called in the 60's and 70's

[jlip]

Gary Payton did the same thing. Shit Gary would do right handed layups on the left side

Reggie Miller was probably even worse. I can't remember him routinely scoring because he created a shot by crossing someone over or going behind his back either.

[Pushxx]

Gary Payton did the same thing. Shit Gary would do right handed layups on the left side

Haha so true. If I knew how the hell this rep system worked on this forum I'd bump you up or w/e.

Unnecessary knocks on Jerry West.

[32MJ32]

1 game is a very small sample to draw inference from

[PHILA]

This guy is a goof, anyone over the age of 25 that goes by coach (insert first name here) is a douche.

If you know anything about the triangle offense, watch his video "breakdowns" of it where he gets basic terminology wrong and doesn't even understand the options off each pass.

I can't stand guys like this, I meet them everywhere I go, people who think they are coaches because they put the money up for an AAU team, he'd fit in great here at ISH with the other uninformed no-it-alls. :applause:

[PHILA]

Awesome video and awesome channel. Thanks for posting.


And did I hear him say that his hand was hurt in that video? I'm pretty sure he did.Yes he later said that he could barely catch the ball.

[Batz]

Jerry only does that because he's a boss. Look at Wilt, palming and pointing, like a boss.

[JMT]

This guy is a goof, anyone over the age of 25 that goes by coach (insert first name here) is a douche.

If you know anything about the triangle offense, watch his video "breakdowns" of it where he gets basic terminology wrong and doesn't even understand the options off each pass.

I can't stand guys like this, I meet them everywhere I go, people who think they are coaches because they put the money up for an AAU team, he'd fit in great here at ISH with the other uninformed no-it-alls.

Thanks. Saved me a lot of typing.

Some idiot cares what "Coach Nick" has to say about Jerry West. :facepalm

[coachNick]

This guy is a goof, anyone over the age of 25 that goes by coach (insert first name here) is a douche.

If you know anything about the triangle offense, watch his video "breakdowns" of it where he gets basic terminology wrong and doesn't even understand the options off each pass.

I can't stand guys like this, I meet them everywhere I go, people who think they are coaches because they put the money up for an AAU team, he'd fit in great here at ISH with the other uninformed no-it-alls.

Would love to hear what terminology you think I get wrong with respects to the triangle offense.
And I'm called Coach Nick because I am a real coach.
By the way, pointing out that someone else is a douche make you a douche. Just sayin'.
Coach Nick

[winwin]

i don't think Coach Nick is a Lakers hater but i know that Lakers is not one of his fav. teams

[KG5MVP]

Would love to hear what terminology you think I get wrong with respects to the triangle offense.
And I'm called Coach Nick because I am a real coach.
By the way, pointing out that someone else is a douche make you a douche. Just sayin'.
Coach Nick

i support u coach nick, ignore these brainless poster, they don't think much

[coachNick]

Thanks for the support! I love the conversation either way, and if people want to make statements - let's get it on! LOL
Stay tuned for lots more as we gear up for the playoffs!
Coach Nick

[KDthunderup]

Thanks for the support! I love the conversation either way, and if people want to make statements - let's get it on! LOL
Stay tuned for lots more as we gear up for the playoffs!
Coach NickCould you do some stuff on the Thunder?

[stevieming]

dribbling with your right hand going left....I've seen Marbury and AI do that....and they don't get ripped, infact it's an invitation so they do a quick right to left cross going forward, or AI does an in and out and goes right...

It's one of my staple moves as well...although you do have to be careful not to get ripped....

I wish I can find a video of this move I'm trying to describe.

[eliteballer]

OP being a drama queen considering in the EXACT same video he shows West going to his right dribbling with his left WHEN PRESSURED:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMp7c2bcfkk&t=3m50s

[MayCeltics]

Coach Nick, Thank You for the Bballbreakdown Videos. You changed the way i view basketball games. I have a new perspective on the NBA because of your videos. Thanks Again

[bd001217]

It's nuts to think that a guy like Jerry West wouldn't have adjusted his game for whatever era he played in.

How "athletic" would 95% of today's guards actually look if they had to actually dribble the ball according to the actual rules of the game, rather than being allowed to palm/carry the ball and travel all over the place?

West dribbles according to the rules. He doesn't palm or carry the ball, and he doesn't get away with traveling every time down the court either.

Can't blame that loss on Wilt, no one on the Lakers did anything in that Game 7. Baylor's air ball off the opening tip set the tone for the entire team.

As for Wilt, his real "problem" on the court was that he was basically a nice guy, and he lacked a real killer instinct that a guy like Russell had. Russell said about 1970's game 7 final, "I would have run Willis Reed into the ground that night". And he would have, too.

Wilt seemed to subconsciously pull back in this game, at least in the beginning.

As far as how Wilt would do today, all one needs to know about the quality of big men in the NBA today is to know that Kwame Brown is in his TENTH NBA season. In other words, there are not enough decent big men in the entire WORLD that are capable of taking Kwame Brown's job.

[PHILA]

^ Not too many teams today have allowed Wilt back on court at all that year. Caron Butler who suffered the same injury is still out (apparently returning in May) after 4 months.


The Telegraph-Herald - Nov 26, 1970 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=up9FAAAAIBAJ&sjid=BL0MAAAAIBAJ&pg=5437,1455734&dq)


http://i56.tinypic.com/2cxvyox.png



While Wilt did play below par in G7, that was a result of Reed's defense as opposed to a "choke". He just didn't have it physically.


http://i53.tinypic.com/34dsrpj.png




G5 was thrown by the Lakers, as noted by Air Judden below:


http://airjudden2.tripod.com/books/thepivotalseason.html

What Rosen also neglected to mention was that when Reed went down in game 5, the Lakers collapsed on Chamberlain and Rosen's idol Jerry West took only 2 shots the 2nd half, missing both, while the Lakers committed 30 turnovers, trying to force the ball into Wilt, rather than taking the open shot.

[coachNick]

I learned the triangle from Tex Winter himself. The fact you think I don't know it is a testament to your ignorance. I've run the system with my own team for several years. Good luck with that attitude. I sincerely hope it works for you somehow.

[Wavves]

I learned the triangle from Tex Winter himself. The fact you think I don't know it is a testament to your ignorance. I've run the system with my own team for several years. Good luck with that attitude. I sincerely hope it works for you somehow.

:biggums:

[chips93]

#realtalk

[bagelred]

Jerry couldn't go East...could only go West.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

this game was one of the reason why wilt shouldnt be ranked in top5 of all time. dude got so scared by Willis Reed playing on 1 leg, he did nothing the rest of the game lol

lol. And his stans like lazeruss just go on to blame his teammates for all his failures.

[LAZERUSS]

lol. And his stans like lazeruss just go on to blame his teammates for all his failures.

????

You mean a Wilt, only four months removed from major surgery, and scoring 21 points, with 24 rebounds while Reed had 4 points and 3 rebounds)? The same Chamberlain who averaged 23.2 ppg, 24.1 rpg, and shot .625 from the field in that series?

With ANY other player, coming back from major surgery, and putting up a 21-24 game seven, they would still be singing his praises for "heroic" play. But, since it was Wilt...well, "hey, look at what Reed did, he completely shut Wilt down,..and he courageously carried the Knicks to the title."

:facepalm

[b1imtf]

????

You mean a Wilt, only four months removed from major surgery, and scoring 21 points, with 24 rebounds while Reed had 4 points and 3 rebounds)? The same Chamberlain who averaged 23.2 ppg, 24.1 rpg, and shot .625 from the field in that series?

With ANY other player, coming back from major surgery, and putting up a 21-24 game seven, they would still be singing his praises for "heroic" play. But, since it was Wilt...well, "hey, look at what Reed did, he completely shut Wilt down,..and he courageously carried the Knicks to the title."

:facepalm
lol

[Bandito]

Jerry couldn't go East...could only go West.
:facepalm

[Floppy]

Ah well time to delete my account, the stupidity is unbearable.

[G-train]

I learned the triangle from Tex Winter himself. The fact you think I don't know it is a testament to your ignorance. I've run the system with my own team for several years. Good luck with that attitude. I sincerely hope it works for you somehow.

I read this in Coach Nick's voice.

[coachNick]

Hilarious. Love it. Thx.

[FreezingTsmoove]

I learned the triangle from Tex Winter himself. The fact you think I don't know it is a testament to your ignorance. I've run the system with my own team for several years. Good luck with that attitude. I sincerely hope it works for you somehow.

:oldlol:

[Jameerthefear]

Hilarious. Love it. Thx.
Are you the real Coach Nick?

[CavaliersFTW]

Some context is missing from that game and his other earlier games Coach Nick broke down. Jerry West had injured both thumbs in the 1970 Knicks series, his handle was quite a bit shakier than he otherwise displays throughout his other games from the late 60's and early 70's. Now, earlier in his career say, '60-'64 he more visibly favored his right hand and Coach Nick broke down the 62 ASG and a 63 Finals game I believe, so Coach Nick has only really broken down games when West was not able to display his handle at the proficiency he refined it too. If you watch say, this '72 ASG you can see Jerry - though still favoring that right hand - had become quite smooth and fluid with his handle regardless of the hand he used:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tODtjVASVc

That is how smooth he would/should have looked during the 1970 series, had he been healthy.

[SamuraiSWISH]

The funniest thing about this is that most of the fancy crossovers you see today are all mostly blatant carries, that would have been called in the 60's and 70's
Over-exaggeration. Hand on the side of the ball, and it's legal. This is an evolution of ball handling. I hate when people say stupid shit like this, I think the only flaw in current ball handling is that a lot of players do to much dancing with it and not always using a move and go to attempt to score.

[pudman13]

Thanks for the support! I love the conversation either way, and if people want to make statements - let's get it on!
Coach Nick

Coach Nick...a video that would be really useful and illuminating is one showing the rule differences between then and now, and how today's players would have to adjust to playing by the rules as they used to be enforced (not the other way around.)

[LAZERUSS]

Coach Nick...a video that would be really useful and illuminating is one showing the rule differences between then and now, and how today's players would have to adjust to playing by the rules as they used to be enforced (not the other way around.)

If today's players didn't adjust to the traveling, carrying, and palming rules that are SUPPOSED to be enforced, we wouldn't see the ball make it past half court...

As for West...he played with this guy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qv0YS1wHoQ

and yet, no one at the time would have considered him better than West (or Oscar)

[LEFT4DEAD]

And this guy is supposed to be better than Dwyane freaking Wade? I understand nostalgy in some of the posters here, but get real, Wade would shit on him on both ends of the floor.

[SyRyanYang]

Is that poster really coach dick?

[Marchesk]

And this guy is supposed to be better than Dwyane freaking Wade? I understand nostalgy in some of the posters here, but get real, Wade would shit on him on both ends of the floor.

Are we sending Wade back in a time machine, or does he grow up back then? Are we bringing West forward in a time machine, or does he grow up now?

You play in the era you play in, not against guys decades in the future. Be sure that someone in 2053 is going to be saying similar things about Wade. West didn't have the advantages of growing up now, and Wade wouldn't if he had grown up back then.

[stanlove1111]

????

You mean a Wilt, only four months removed from major surgery, and scoring 21 points, with 24 rebounds while Reed had 4 points and 3 rebounds)? The same Chamberlain who averaged 23.2 ppg, 24.1 rpg, and shot .625 from the field in that series?

With ANY other player, coming back from major surgery, and putting up a 21-24 game seven, they would still be singing his praises for "heroic" play. But, since it was Wilt...well, "hey, look at what Reed did, he completely shut Wilt down,..and he courageously carried the Knicks to the title."

:facepalm
That game should be a lesson to a stats lover like you. But you don't get it. Wilt despite his stats did not have an effect on the game. They were empty stats. I know guys like you could never understand something like that, because you don't understand basketball. You are a 12 year old who found a stat book. Russell has always said and being the winner that he was I believe it that if Reed dared take the court against him in that condition and in that situation he would have taken it as a personal insult and would have taken it to him all game and destroyed him all over the court.. That's the difference between the two. Wilt didn't have the killer instinct. Wilt also was not effective at all on the defensive end.


In the 7th game of a finals he played against a guy who couldn't love well at all and he didn't have an effect on the outcome of the game.

[stanlove1111]

Some context is missing from that game and his other earlier games Coach Nick broke down. Jerry West had injured both thumbs in the 1970 Knicks series, his handle was quite a bit shakier than he otherwise displays throughout his other games from the late 60's and early 70's. Now, earlier in his career say, '60-'64 he more visibly favored his right hand and Coach Nick broke down the 62 ASG and a 63 Finals game I believe, so Coach Nick has only really broken down games when West was not able to display his handle at the proficiency he refined it too. If you watch say, this '72 ASG you can see Jerry - though still favoring that right hand - had become quite smooth and fluid with his handle regardless of the hand he used:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tODtjVASVc

That is how smooth he would/should have looked during the 1970 series, had he been healthy.


top trying to deny the obvious. West could not do much at all with his left hand. That's a fact. I watched him play for years and everyone in the NBA knew it. Players in general couldn't dribble like todays bigger faster stronger more skills players.

I have tried to explain this to you before but for some strange reason you can't grasp it. If you put West from 1969 into todays league he would get destroyed. Basketball has evolved. How could it not?

The real question is with a guy like West is if he was born in 1987 and grew up playing evolved basketball like todays players how good would he be? That's the real question.

[jlip]

So if West showed that he could dribble like these guys (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soLH6bau9uo) then he would have been better?

[imdaman99]

Could you do some stuff on the Thunder?
i know this is an old post, but he is a known westbrook hater. he will overlook the 100 positive things westbrook does in a game to kill him for pushing the tempo and missing a pull up jumper. he is brendathelegend's hero though, gotta give him that :bowdown:

[coachNick]

Yes, indeed, I am :)
#YOUIN

[coachNick]

We will be diving into some more of the history of the game. Hopefully, we'll get to this! THanks

[coachNick]

i know this is an old post, but he is a known westbrook hater. he will overlook the 100 positive things westbrook does in a game to kill him for pushing the tempo and missing a pull up jumper. he is brendathelegend's hero though, gotta give him that :bowdown:
I actually defended Westbrook in a 2 parter when Magic called his the worst performance by a PG in the Finals.
But, I will admit, the guy drives me mad with his terrible decision making. If they would just play him at shooting guard, he'd be the 2nd best 2guard in the league.

[coachNick]

Is that poster really coach dick?
You misspelled my name, boss.

[Pushxx]

So if West showed that he could dribble like these guys (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soLH6bau9uo) then he would have been better?

LOL would rep.

[Euroleague]

This Coach Nick guy is certifiably insane.

[CavaliersFTW]

This Coach Nick guy is certifiably insane.
You say that because he broke down a Euroleague game and with his informed opinion he compared what he saw to a middle of the road American D1 NCAA team. He seems to know a thing or two about basketball, unlike you.

[Euroleague]

You say that because he broke down a Euroleague game and with his informed opinion he compared what he saw to a middle of the road American D1 NCAA team. He seems to know a thing or two about basketball, unlike you.

Your mom should have aborted you.

[CavaliersFTW]

Your mom should have aborted you.
I think it is quite clear who the 'certifiably insane' poster is.

[riseagainst]

the real Coach Nick?

I'm a big fan of your breakdowns. :rockon:

[The_Yearning]

I learned the triangle from Tex Winter himself. The fact you think I don't know it is a testament to your ignorance. I've run the system with my own team for several years. Good luck with that attitude. I sincerely hope it works for you somehow.

:lebronamazed:

[dunksby]

I actually defended Westbrook in a 2 parter when Magic called his the worst performance by a PG in the Finals.
But, I will admit, the guy drives me mad with his terrible decision making. If they would just play him at shooting guard, he'd be the 2nd best 2guard in the league.
Sounds like one of our own resident trolls. :lol

[mugiwara]

So if West showed that he could dribble like these guys (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soLH6bau9uo) then he would have been better?


Dover Basketeers :rockon:

[G-train]

Yes, indeed, I am :)
#YOUIN

Shout out ISH on twitter and we will believe.

https://twitter.com/bballSource