Now in Feb, is LeBron James maybe the 2010-11 NBA MVP?

[IN-PAX-WE-TRUST]

I added the quotes but let's be honest here. Lebron appears to be the clear cut MVP.

I'm the biggest D Rose fan around, but Lebron is better than Rose in PPG, FG%, rebounds, steals, blocks, team wins. I think it's clear-cut.

[midnight_show]

So youve started a thread quoting Lebron James on something James has never said.

Go back to clown college.

[Hulk Hogan]

ISH needs a troll limit! :facepalm

[Jacks3]

How can you be MVP if you have another top 3 player IN THE LEAGUE on your team AND a All-Star PF in Bosh? Seriously? That's a 55+ win/contending team even without LeBron imo.

[ginobli2311]

How can you be MVP if you have another top 3 player IN THE LEAGUE on your team AND a All-Star PF in Bosh? Seriously? That's a 55+ win/contending team even without LeBron imo.

so kobe/lebron/wade are disqualified from mvp?

because you could say the same thing about kobe.

How can you be MVP if you have a team as loaded as the lakers (2nd best team in league on paper) and the greatest coach ever with the best front line in the Western Conference? Seriously? Thats a 50 win team even without Kobe.

[G-Funk]

Real Quote

“When we decided to come together our Most Valuable Player chances kind of went out the window,”

[icemanfan]

ISH needs a troll limit! :facepalm
REP UP! AGREE 100%

[G-Funk]

so kobe/lebron/wade are disqualified from mvp?

because you could say the same thing about kobe.

How can you be MVP if you have a team as loaded as the lakers (2nd best team in league on paper) and the greatest coach ever with the best front line in the Western Conference? Seriously? Thats a 50 win team even without Kobe.


face it that team would not even be over 500 without Wade

[Premeditated]

*1 stars thread*

ban request.

[IN-PAX-WE-TRUST]

face it that team would not even be over 500 without Wade

lol... Lebron carried a pack of scrubs in Cleveland to 63 wins. Keep dreaming.

[kaiiu]

lol... Lebron carried a pack of scrubs in Cleveland to 63 wins. Keep dreaming.
he carries them to 63 games in the season, but couldnt lead them to 16 in the playoffs:confusedshrug:

[Jacks3]

so kobe/lebron/wade are disqualified from mvp?

because you could say the same thing about kobe.

How can you be MVP if you have a team as loaded as the lakers (2nd best team in league on paper) and the greatest coach ever with the best front line in the Western Conference? Seriously? Thats a 50 win team even without Kobe.
i'm not sure why you're bringing kobe, but that logic is always used against him.

to me, the difference is that the heat have wade and nobody on the lakers outside of bryant is even remotely close to him. honestly, i think the lakers without kobe would go from being a legitimate contender to a very good team that would have no real chance to win it all--sorta like the hawks of the west or the utah jazz. while with the heat i think they'd still have a decent shot at the chip because of the greatness of d.wade. he's more than capable of going and putting up great playoff series and bosh would probably go back to being a 22-23/10 guy if he just had to play with wade. thats the major difference--lebron has wade.just imo. maybe im overvaluing wade but i dont think so.

[ginobli2311]

i'm not sure why you're bringing kobe, but that logic is always used against him.

to me, the difference is that the heat have wade and nobody on the lakers outside of bryant is even remotely close to him. honestly, i think the lakers without kobe would go from being a legitimate contender to a very good team that would have no real chance to win it all--sorta like the hawks of the west or the utah jazz. while with the heat i think they'd still have a decent shot at the chip because of the greatness of d.wade. he's more than capable of going and putting up great playoff series and bosh would probably go back to being a 22-23/10 guy if he just had to play with wade. thats the major difference--lebron has wade.just imo. maybe im overvaluing wade but i dont think so.

no. i totally agree with you....except the part about miami contending without lebron. please...thats just BS and you know it. they are paper thin even with lebron mate.

but i don't think that disqualifies these guys from the mvp. they are just now held to a certain level of team success to win mvp. and that is how it should be. lebron or wade or kobe have no business winning mvp unless their teams are noticeably better than the other candidates.

for example:

lets say lebron keeps this up and finishes with his current numbers and the heat win 60. ..ok....but then lets say that the bulls win 57 and rose keeps up his current play.

no way in hell can lebron win mvp over him. the team success doesn't warrant it. but if the heat won 64 and the bulls 54....then it would matter.

i just think its all about personal circumstances. of course the guys on the most talented teams should be held to a different standard. its only fair.

its why i don't think kobe has a legit argument over a guy like dirk so far. dirk's level of play and numbers are as good or better and the mavs have a better record even with playing a tougher schedule, dirk missing a lot of time, and the mavs being less talented to begin with.

just my thoughts. i have no problem holding guys like lebron/wade/kobe now to a higher standard because they play on loaded teams. it makes sense.

[Indian guy]

to me, the difference is that the heat have wade and nobody on the lakers outside of bryant is even remotely close to him.

That's an exaggeration. LA still have a Top 15 player on the roster in Gasol.


while with the heat i think they'd still have a decent shot at the chip because of the greatness of d.wade.

The drop in talent is simply too steep after Wade/Bosh for Miami to be able to contend without LeBron. This is not the same roster that won 47 games last season. They had JO, Beasley, Richardson and Haslem(currently injured). This year's roster is Big 3 + spot up shooters and bad big men. Miami's a 50-win team MAX w/o LeBron, no more.

[Clocian-IGN]

:facepalm: he dqed himself of mvp when he joined wade and bosh. one crazy night doesn't = mvp, sooner or later wade will do the same thing, will he be mvp?

rose is carrying a team whos been missing it's 2 starting bigs for a lot of the season to a top 3 seed. do you really watch the bulls?

[kaiiu]

:facepalm: he dqed himself of mvp when he joined wade and bosh. one crazy night doesn't = mvp, sooner or later wade will do the same thing, will he be mvp?

rose is carrying a team whos been missing it's 2 starting bigs for a lot of the season to a top 3 seed. do you really watch the bulls?
:applause: exactly if scoring 50 in a season or being the best player were the only factors MJ would have had about 6 or 7 in a row

[Jacks3]

[QUOTE=Indian guy]That's an exaggeration. LA still have a Top 15 player on the roster in Gasol.

And Pau is not remotely close to Wade if you ask me...



The drop in talent is simply too steep after Wade/Bosh for Miami to be able to contend without LeBron. This is not the same roster that won 47 games last season. They had JO, Beasley, Richardson and Haslem(currently injured). This year's roster is Big 3 + spot up shooters and bad big men. Miami's a 50-win team MAX w/o LeBron, no more.
I don't think having depth is as important as you do. It's more important in the reg season, but I could see Wade/Bosh+ solid (imo) role-players Mike Miller/Big Z/House/James Jones and Haslem (assuming he's back) beating any team in the East in a playoff series, especially if Wade is out there having historically good series, which he's more than capable of doing.

[BuGzBuNNy]

The dumbest theory ever is that he shouldn't win it because Wade is on his team.

Wade does not equal (in Kobe's case)Gasol+Odom+Bynum, or in Derrick Rose's case; Boozer+Noah+Deng. Now obviously the Bulls have been missing their key players pretty much all year, which is why Derrick Rose IMO is the MVP thus far.

[IN-PAX-WE-TRUST]

he carries them to 63 games in the season, but couldnt lead them to 16 in the playoffs:confusedshrug:

Last time I looked MVP was based on regular season.

[Jacks3]

The dumbest theory ever is that he shouldn't win it because Wade is on his team.

Wade does not equal (in Kobe's case)Gasol+Odom+Bynum, or in Derrick Rose's case; Boozer+Noah+Deng. Now obviously the Bulls have been missing their key players pretty much all year, which is why Derrick Rose IMO is the MVP thus far.
its Wade+Bosh though.

[ginobli2311]

its Wade+Bosh though.

so you don't think that kobe/wade/lebron should have any chance to win mvp?

[Jacks3]

i think kobe would be deserving but the lakers don't have the w/l record. already explained my logic on kobe and why it differs from lebron/wade. agree to disagree.

[ginobli2311]

i think kobe would be deserving but the lakers don't have the w/l record. already explained my logic on kobe and why it differs from lebron/wade. agree to disagree.

thats cool.

i just don't see how you can use lebron's team against him and not against kobe when kobe has the better team around him and significantly better coach.

[kaiiu]

Last time I looked MVP was based on regular season.

so why didnt Jordan win it 3 times in a row. Why does Shaq only have 1 when this version of wade is better than 00-02 Kobe?

[Jacks3]

i just don't see how you can use lebron's team against him and not against kobe when kobe has the better team around him and significantly better coach.
again, i already explained this...how can you not "see" when i already explained it... i think the heat having a legitimate superstar/top 2-3 player/top 15-20 all-time (in terms of prime play) on that team gives a much better chance to compete for a chip in the playoffs compared to the lakers..

[CelticBaller]

im pretty sure the guy is satisfied with 2 and could care less about them

[ginobli2311]

again, i already explained this...how can you not "see" when i already explained it... i think the heat having a legitimate superstar/top 2-3 player/top 15-20 all-time (in terms of prime play) on that team gives a much better chance to compete for a chip in the playoffs compared to the lakers..

well you are just wrong. that is laughable. anyone would take gasol/odom/bynum and the lakers depth and phil jackson over what the heat have.

you can't just have outlandish opinions and expect us to "see it"

give me a break dude.

go back and look at what wins "chips" throughout nba history. its almost always great front line play.

LOL

[Jacks3]

well you are just wrong.
hey man, whatever. clearly we don't agree. :confusedshrug:

[ginobli2311]

hey man, whatever. clearly we don't agree. :confusedshrug:

ok. sorry to go off a bit.

but i just think its taking a very absurd stance to claim that lebron's team is so clearly better than kobe's that it disqualifies lebron from winning an mvp.

sorry. that just sounds ridiculous to me.

[Jacks3]

okay...

[97 bulls]

Wade had a triple double tonight. And james had 19/8/9. As long as they both continue to put up strong numbers, they're gonna canibalize each others vote.

[NbaFan432]

Wade had a triple double tonight. And james had 19/8/9. As long as they both continue to put up strong numbers, they're gonna canibalize each others vote.
In all fairness, Lebron didn't play the whole second quarter because of foul trouble.

[r15mohd]

MVP trophy or championship...which do you think is their focus right now?

i doubt wade, rose or lebron is thinking..."hmm, i wonder if I'll get that MVP this year?"

[shortlunatic]

okay...

I'm with you guy, and I totally understand your argument.

Ginobli, are you really telling me that a Laker's team without Kobe would be better than a Heat team without Lebron? I think you are right in the sense that the Lakers are a better built team, but wrong in the sense that they will be the better team. If Kobe comes off the Lakers, who becomes the new leader/#1 option? Gasol? When has Gasol ever proven to be succesful as the star? He has dissapeared in times when his team really needs him numerous times, and has shown up to games almost non existant in a handful. If Kobe leaves, then its up to this guy to be the motivator and leader for his team, with Odom and Bynum as the minions. If anything, I think Kobe's importance is more apparent now, as Kobe has not been having as a good of seasons before, and the team is struggling to find wins.

If LBJ comes off the Heat, who becomes their #1 option? Wade, the team's leader since he was drafted. Wade is a proven superstar who still has what it takes to lead his team to a chip (look back at moments of Heat vs. Bulls). Jack touched on it earlier, it's important to remember that Bosh was a number one option for his team, and now he's a number three. A tough transition no doubt. If LBJ comes off this team, he goes up to number two. This also leaves more touches for the team, that would probably be distributed to Wade and Bosh. If this is the case, Bosh's numbers would likely go back up to what they used to be. Right now I think it's a little harder to realize it since LBJ is a shining star, but I have no doubts that Wade and Bosh could be one of the best little man big man combos in the league. And for the rest of the team, you're right, there's not much to be desired other than perimeter shooting. But think about it son, you're talking about a duo of Wade and Bosh. These two could dominate inside and will reap mass benefits from three point shooters spreading the floor and being able to convert shots on the kickout pass. This team is still properly built for these two players, and will continue to be succesful.

Bottom line, Heat without LBJ > Lakers w/o Kobe.

[Brad Lesnar]

:lol Lebron is the man hes gonna win the finals mvp and the regular mvp





suck it haters

[Jacks3]

I'm with you guy, and I totally understand your argument.

Ginobli, are you really telling me that a Laker's team without Kobe would be better than a Heat team without Lebron? I think you are right in the sense that the Lakers are a better built team, but wrong in the sense that they will be the better team. If Kobe comes off the Lakers, who becomes the new leader/#1 option? Gasol? When has Gasol ever proven to be succesful as the star? He has dissapeared in times when his team really needs him numerous times, and has shown up to games almost non existant in a handful. If Kobe leaves, then its up to this guy to be the motivator and leader for his team, with Odom and Bynum as the minions. If anything, I think Kobe's importance is more apparent now, as Kobe has not been having as a good of seasons before, and the team is struggling to find wins.

If LBJ comes off the Heat, who becomes their #1 option? Wade, the team's leader since he was drafted. Wade is a proven superstar who still has what it takes to lead his team to a chip (look back at moments of Heat vs. Bulls). Jack touched on it earlier, it's important to remember that Bosh was a number one option for his team, and now he's a number three. A tough transition no doubt. If LBJ comes off this team, he goes up to number two. This also leaves more touches for the team, that would probably be distributed to Wade and Bosh. If this is the case, Bosh's numbers would likely go back up to what they used to be. Right now I think it's a little harder to realize it since LBJ is a shining star, but I have no doubts that Wade and Bosh could be one of the best little man big man combos in the league. And for the rest of the team, you're right, there's not much to be desired other than perimeter shooting. But think about it son, you're talking about a duo of Wade and Bosh. These two could dominate inside and will reap mass benefits from three point shooters spreading the floor and being able to convert shots on the kickout pass. This team is still properly built for these two players, and will continue to be succesful.

Bottom line, Heat without LBJ > Lakers w/o Kobe.
Great post.

[Killer_Instinct]

One star. Neg rep.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

We got Waldus banned, lets get this guy banned

[MeloMike]

So you make a thread title with the quotes just to get attention for yourself? :confusedshrug:

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


:rockon: :rockon: :rockon:
:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

[jrong]

The drop in talent is simply too steep after Wade/Bosh for Miami to be able to contend without LeBron. This is not the same roster that won 47 games last season. They had JO, Beasley, Richardson and Haslem(currently injured). This year's roster is Big 3 + spot up shooters and bad big men. Miami's a 50-win team MAX w/o LeBron, no more.

LeBron is the MVP, but, dude, this is beyond ridiculous. Wade had rags last year when they won 47. Bosh is triple the player of anyone on last year's roster. Miller is better than anyone on last year's roster. Wade didn't have a center who was within 4" of Big Z, he never had a shooter off the bench like Eddie House, and James Jones was a non-factor last year.

You're making it sound as if Beasley or JO was anything last year-- JO was for about a month after the ASG only, but then he got hurt again. Look at Q now, now that he doesn't have Wade next to him. What Wade did with that team wasn't much less impressive than LeBron's regular season feats with the Cavs. LeBron probably cracks 50 with last year's Heat, and Wade probably doesn't quite get to 60 with the Cavs (though with his play against Boston in the playoffs, if he played that way on the Cavs, he leads them to the next round)....

I still lean toward the opinion that the Heat would have a better record with either Wade OR James and Bosh. They just wouldn't have as good a chance to win it all (although if you take that 14M salary and spend it on a center and a PG, they would be in the mix)....

But, anyway, yes, LeBron is currently the MVP and the best player alive. But, you don't have to denigrate Wade with absurd comments like these in order to bolster his case.

[magnax1]

LeBron is the MVP, but, dude, this is beyond ridiculous. Wade had rags last year when they won 47. Bosh is triple the player of anyone on last year's roster. Miller is better than anyone on last year's roster. Wade didn't have a center who was within 4" of Big Z, he never had a shooter off the bench like Eddie House, and James Jones was a non-factor last year.

You're making it sound as if Beasley or JO was anything last year-- JO was for about a month after the ASG only, but then he got hurt again. Look at Q now, now that he doesn't have Wade next to him. What Wade did with that team wasn't much less impressive than LeBron's regular season feats with the Cavs. LeBron probably cracks 50 with last year's Heat, and Wade probably doesn't quite get to 60 with the Cavs (though with his play against Boston in the playoffs, if he played that way on the Cavs, he leads them to the next round)....

I still lean toward the opinion that the Heat would have a better record with either Wade OR James and Bosh. They just wouldn't have as good a chance to win it all (although if you take that 14 M salary and spend it on a center on and PG, they would be in the mix)....

But, anyway, yes, LeBron is currently the MVP and the best player alive. But, you don't have to denigrate Wade with absurd comments like these in order to bolster his case.




Anyway, like I said, LeBron is the MVP and the best player in the world right now
See, I don't get this logic. If you think that Miami is still 50+ wins without Lebron, but they're only 60 or so wins with him (or whatever pace they're on) Then how is he more valuable a guy like Dwight, whos team would likely drop 20-30 wins without him?

[Dolphin]

Lebron is the best player in the world and has played like it this season. But everyone has their own idea of what the MVP award means so there's no point arguing over it. I simply look at who has played the best. Not records or who's most important to his team. Just who has played the best this season. Lebron has. He dominates like no other.

But who cares. I'm more concerned about Miller, House, ect. starting to show up. That's not good for the rest of the league even if they have only one decent big man right now.

[Harion]

at this point, i don't think Lebron cares about getting the MVP award anymore. you see how irked he always is when ppl taunt him about not winning rings? he just wants to win rings, period.

[Lebron23]

LeBron don't give a $hit about winning his 3rd MVP trophy. His main goal this season is to win an NBA title.

Regular Season MVP trophy = Curse

[catch24]

LeBron don't give a $hit about winning his 3rd MVP trophy. His main goal this season is to win an NBA title.

Regular Season MVP trophy = Curse

That's what its all about. He's definitely got a case though. Top 2 as of now IMO.

[ashbelly]

That's what its all about. He's definitely got a case though. Top 2 as of now IMO.


This.. I actually thought him joining Heat would dominish his chances, but when he starts getting considerations, i think he'll win it. In march i think they'll go on a tear and it will be hard to deny him of it. I was expecting someone would be a clear cut choice by the 1st month, but that has failed to happen. Watch him win another.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

LeBron don't give a $hit about winning his 3rd MVP trophy. His main goal this season is to win an NBA title.

Regular Season MVP trophy = Curse

But still if he adds another MVP that would make his legacy even greater.

How many players have ever won 3 straight MVP?

Wilt
Larry Bird
Bill Russell


:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

This.. I actually thought him joining Heat would dominish his chances, but when he starts getting considerations, i think he'll win it. In march i think they'll go on a tear and it will be hard to deny him of it. I was expecting someone would be a clear cut choice by the 1st month, but that has failed to happen. Watch him win another.

PleezeBelieve is that you :oldlol: :oldlol:

Joking Nostradamus. :oldlol:

[Nick Young]

no rings, gtfo loser

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

no rings, gtfo loser
:facepalm

Best player Lebron has ever played with prior to joing Miami

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/seasonpreview/2010/CLE/three.cavaliers.jpg:facepalm

BTW You decide

[kaiiu]

:facepalm

Best player Lebron has ever played with prior to joing Miami

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/seasonpreview/2010/CLE/three.cavaliers.jpg:facepalm

BTW You decide

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4106/5091969338_16a4d47ddd_z.jpg

[DUP]

not happening

[Lebron23]

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4106/5091969338_16a4d47ddd_z.jpg


It sucks that Boozer is a greedy bastard. He picked the Jazz over the Cavaliers.

LeBron, Boozer, and another free agent signing in 2006 = legit championship contender.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4106/5091969338_16a4d47ddd_z.jpg

yeah but Lebron was just a 19 year old @ the time when Boozer was around.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liPFY8x6hRo BTW Footage of Lebron's first ever game :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

It sucks that Boozer is a greedy bastard. He picked the Jazz over the Cavaliers.

LeBron, Boozer, and another free agent signing in 2006 = legit championship contender.

Hopefully they dont pick up Larry Hughes :facepalm

[DUP]

It sucks that Boozer is a greedy bastard. He picked the Jazz over the Cavaliers.

LeBron, Boozer, and another free agent signing in 2006 = legit championship contender.
i disagree, boozer is overrated

[Lebron23]

Hopefully they dont pick up Larry Hughes :facepalm


Cavs also drafted Luke Jackson over Josh Smith, Al Jefferson, and JR Smith.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

i disagree, boozer is overrated

One of the best low-post scorers and one of the best rebounders :bowdown: :bowdown:

Yeah overrated:rolleyes:

[kaiiu]

It sucks that Boozer is a greedy bastard. He picked the Jazz over the Cavaliers.

LeBron, Boozer, and another free agent signing in 2006 = legit championship contender.

agree honestly I heard Boozer left because he didnt want to be in Lebrons shadow

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Cavs also drafted Luke Jackson over Josh Smith, Al Jefferson, and JR Smith.

ROFL:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[jrong]

See, I don't get this logic. If you think that Miami is still 50+ wins without Lebron, but they're only 60 or so wins with him (or whatever pace they're on) Then how is he more valuable a guy like Dwight, whos team would likely drop 20-30 wins without him?

I was talking about last year's Cavs with Wade instead of James. I think this year's Heat with either James or Wade only and everyone else is a 60 or more win team. They're doing a remarkable job together, but they still get in each other's way and more fundamentally, disrupt each other's rhythm. There are rhythms to individual dominance. The only reason they are doing as well as they are even now is because they are both very adept at dominace within the flow of the game.

But, James is my MVP right now just because I consider him that much better than anyone except his teammate. Yes, there are other guys who are producing numbers in the same vicinity, but split those two up, and they both are putting up approximately 30/7.

And the other reason why I would give him the MVP is because I am now firmly of the opinion that it should go if not to the best player in the world at least someone very close to the top. The MVP has way too much historical significance to be assigning it to whim-candidates or feel-good-candidates.

Unless one of these virgin-MVP-level players are the clearcut choice, I don't think it's appropriate that they get it yet. Not when there are perennial MVP-calibre players like Wade especially, also Howard, and more recently CP. So unless a Rose or a Stoudemire is the unequivocal deservant, they shouldn't get the nod over a player with long-tenure at that level.

However, if the voters determine that a Wade-type isn't worthy (and right now he's not, only because right now his teammate is better), then it belongs in the hands of someone whose greatness is established. Someone like James.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

agree honestly I heard Boozer left because he didnt want to be in Lebrons shadow

No he left because Utah offer more money

WIKI
[QUOTE] Free agency controversy

After the 2003

[Lebron23]

No he left because Utah offer more money

WIKI

What an idiot!

[DUP]

One of the best low-post scorers and one of the best rebounders :bowdown: :bowdown:

Yeah overrated:rolleyes:

also has no shot blocking ability and has horrible single man coverage and help D

[kaiiu]

What an idiot!


:confusedshrug:

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

also has no shot blocking ability and has horrible single man coverage and help D

And he is one of the best offensive power forwards in the game, great passer and knows how to take charges

your turn:oldlol: :cheers:

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

so what will the excuse be if he dosen't win in Miami? :oldlol:

pathetic LeBron apologists....


Is the season over?

Did the playoffs start yet?

Let see what happens.

[Lebron23]

ROFL:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

Cavs should have drafted Jefferson or Smith as a Backup plan in case Boozer sign with another team.

[Lebron23]

Is the season over?

Did the playoffs start yet?

Let see what happens.

Report his post. Jeff is gonna ban his IP Address.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Cavs should have drafted Jefferson or Smith as a Backup plan in case Boozer sign with another team.


Yeah like why are they gonna pick up Luke when he plays the 3 like Lebron :hammerhead:


Report his post. Jeff is gonna ban his IP Address.

Roger That:cheers:

[Lebron23]

Bye Bye Ne 1.

Say hello to your sister for me.

[Lebron23]

Yeah like why are they gonna pick up Luke when he plays the 3 like Lebron :hammerhead:



Roger That:cheers:


:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Cavaliers Draft Scout

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Cavaliers Draft Scout

Cavs GM:facepalm

Dajuan Wagner over Amare in 2002 draft:facepalm

Diop over Joe Johnson in 2001 draft :facepalm

(Repp me if you were shaking your head while reading this post:lol)

[Rose]

In all fairness, Big Al and J-smoove came at a time when people were start to get skiddish about drafting guys out of high school after Kwame, Curry, and Tyson Chandler, were failing to live up to expectations.

Sorta like how Euros are getting drafted lower now.

[Skip Bayless]

We got Waldus banned, lets get this guy banned

:facepalm Little punks.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

:facepalm Little punks.
gimmick account:violin:

[Skip Bayless]

gimmick account:violin:

:confusedshrug: You're a punk mate. Don't accuse me of something when I call you out. Are you going to tell on me? Go ahead, try to get me banned too. I have too many fans on this forum to get banned.

[knightfall88]

:facepalm: he dqed himself of mvp when he joined wade and bosh. one crazy night doesn't = mvp, sooner or later wade will do the same thing, will he be mvp?

rose is carrying a team whos been missing it's 2 starting bigs for a lot of the season to a top 3 seed. do you really watch the bulls?

this.

[IN-PAX-WE-TRUST]

Lebron has the best numbers in the league on one of the best teams in the league. When you compare his numbers to Rose it's not even close. Rose has been a beast but Lebron is just in another class.

[Dionysus]

Lebron has the best numbers in the league on one of the best teams in the league. When you compare his numbers to Rose it's not even close. Rose has been a beast but Lebron is just in another class.

Too bad Blake The Quake is MVP.

[jrong]

this.

But, again, do you guys not understand that the MVP carries historical weight way beyond just one season? So unless Rose is the clear choice, I believe you have to take tenure of playing at this level into account. And this is Rose's first year at this level, when guys like Wade and Howard have played at that level since their sophomore seasons.

My stomach churns at the thought that Rose could have an MVP at this point and Wade, Howard, and even CP don't. Yes, a big part of the Wade aspect is because I'm a fan, but I feel the same way about Dwight and Chris.

I'm not saying this because he's not a great player. He is. But, what this would do, at least in some sense, would elevate his career past theirs already.

Now if Rose was just running away and having the best season, then fine, reward him. But if there's a sea of candidates, and especially if several of them are having better seasons, then I don't think it ought to be his time yet.

And this is why I land on LBJ as MVP at the moment. Of all the players whose greatness is established and tenured, he has been the best.

[knightfall88]

But, again, do you guys not understand that the MVP carries historical weight way beyond just one season? So unless Rose is the clear choice, I believe you have to take tenure of playing at this level into account. And this is Rose's first year at this level, when guys like Wade and Howard have played at that level since their sophomore seasons.

My stomach churns at the thought that Rose could have an MVP at this point and Wade, Howard, and even CP don't. Yes, a big part of the Wade aspect is because I'm a fan, but I feel the same way about Dwight and Chris.

I'm not saying this because he's not a great player. He is. But, what this would do, at least in some sense, would elevate his career past theirs already.

Now if Rose was just running away and having the best season, then fine, reward him. But if there's a sea of candidates, and especially if several of them are having better seasons, then I don't think it ought to be his time yet.

And this is why I land on LBJ as MVP at the moment. Of all the players whose greatness is established and tenured, he has been the best.

Well thats too bad that you have a problem with Rose. I'm sure people had a problem with Nash, he wasn't even the best PG at the time yet 2 time MVP.

[Noyze]

How can you be MVP if you have another top 3 player IN THE LEAGUE on your team AND a All-Star PF in Bosh? Seriously? That's a 55+ win/contending team even without LeBron imo.

Jordan did it with Pippen who was top 5-2 most years. And Dennis Rodman>Bosh.

[strifed169]

lebron deserves mvp for putting up mvp type stats with players like wade and bosh on the same team, before it was understandable when he was with the cavs he was the undisputed #1 option.

put any player with enough potential as the #1 option and you will get quality stats regardless of how well theyre playing (john wall) because of the amount of touches their stats will pile up naturally. but lbj on some nights is not the #1 option and he is still putting up these stats while on the other hand you have rose, putting up nice stats as he should, but not efficient enough to warrant him mvp imo.

[jstern]

I think Lebron is the best in the league, so I think he should get it with the current numbers he's putting up. He might be playing with Wade, but the heat still have some flaws that other elite teams don't have. Other teams are stacked, but playing with Wade is definetely going to hurt his chances not because of his play, but because of how some might perceive it.

[IN-PAX-WE-TRUST]

Too bad Blake The Quake is MVP.

Let me know when the Clippers reach .500.

[Dionysus]

Let me know when the Clippers reach .500.

Did you see how they started the year? Soon as Blake raised his game, Clippers took off. He is playing better than anyone with the garbage he has around him.

[IGOTGAME]

But, again, do you guys not understand that the MVP carries historical weight way beyond just one season? So unless Rose is the clear choice, I believe you have to take tenure of playing at this level into account. And this is Rose's first year at this level, when guys like Wade and Howard have played at that level since their sophomore seasons.

My stomach churns at the thought that Rose could have an MVP at this point and Wade, Howard, and even CP don't. Yes, a big part of the Wade aspect is because I'm a fan, but I feel the same way about Dwight and Chris.

I'm not saying this because he's not a great player. He is. But, what this would do, at least in some sense, would elevate his career past theirs already.

Now if Rose was just running away and having the best season, then fine, reward him. But if there's a sea of candidates, and especially if several of them are having better seasons, then I don't think it ought to be his time yet.

And this is why I land on LBJ as MVP at the moment. Of all the players whose greatness is established and tenured, he has been the best.

...Steve Nash won two MVPs before Kobe got one. It has already happened before, precedent has been set.

Wes Unseld won the MVP and Rookie of the year award in the same year! Wilt also won the MVP as a rookie. This tenure argument is unfounded.

[Soundwave]

LeBron is definitely make a strong case for himself.

[Dionysus]

LeBron is definitely make a strong case for himself.

This is horrible writing.

LeBron's definitely making a strong case for himself.
LeBron is definitely making a strong case for himself

Would have sounded better.

[Bandito]

so kobe/lebron/wade are disqualified from mvp?

because you could say the same thing about kobe.

How can you be MVP if you have a team as loaded as the lakers (2nd best team in league on paper) and the greatest coach ever with the best front line in the Western Conference? Seriously? Thats a 50 win team even without Kobe.
He was disqualified when Gasol got traded to the Lakers. That's about the only reason he hasn't won more MVP's. Also how is a coach make you get disqualified for MVP's? That doesn't even make sense, you can have a great coach in team of only average players and the I'll bet the farthest Jackson takes the team in the playoffs. Heck before Gasol, Kobe had Odom and a healthy (bust still developing) Bynum and Jackson didn't take the team to the second round. That doesn't mean he was a bad coach, it just that not even a genius can make a crappy team win it all.
The same case can be made for Lebron now. He is playing with a top 3 player and a great power forward that can play in the post. And the coach is smarter than he looks, being able to handle the ego's of the big three, specially Lebron.

[IN-PAX-WE-TRUST]

Did you see how they started the year? Soon as Blake raised his game, Clippers took off. He is playing better than anyone with the garbage he has around him.

I don't care where they started. They are 6 games back of the 8th seed. Griffin will not be in the discussion for MVP.

[Dionysus]

I don't care where they started. They are 6 games back of the 8th seed. Griffin will not be in the discussion for MVP.

You're stupid. He's a top 5 player in the league, that automatically puts him in the top 10 MVP.

[IGOTGAME]

He was disqualified when Gasol got traded to the Lakers. That's about the only reason he hasn't won more MVP's. Also how is a coach make you get disqualified for MVP's? That doesn't even make sense, you can have a great coach in team of only average players and the I'll bet the farthest Jackson takes the team in the playoffs. Heck before Gasol, Kobe had Odom and a healthy (bust still developing) Bynum and Jackson didn't take the team to the second round.

The only year that Kobe has a healthy Odom and emerging Bynum was the year Gasol got traded to LA in February. They were the #1 seed in a tough West before Bynum got hurt in late January. Contrary to popular belief, that team was actually doing pretty well.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

I don't care where they started. They are 6 games back of the 8th seed. Griffin will not be in the discussion for MVP.

same as Kevin Love

:oldlol: :oldlol: @ him being tied for 10 on NBA.COM:roll: :roll:

[cleveland]

so to be the mvp you have to be the only allstar caliber player on your team?na i think lebron is legit this year...

[ZGalifianakis]

Tracy Mcgrady and Vince Carter Co-Mvps because they are cousins and are very exciting to watch

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

so to be the mvp you have to be the only allstar caliber player on your team?na i think lebron is legit this year...
ROFL

Yeah that would be stupid. LBJ deserve it IMO

[ginobli2311]

I'm with you guy, and I totally understand your argument.

Ginobli, are you really telling me that a Laker's team without Kobe would be better than a Heat team without Lebron? I think you are right in the sense that the Lakers are a better built team, but wrong in the sense that they will be the better team. If Kobe comes off the Lakers, who becomes the new leader/#1 option? Gasol? When has Gasol ever proven to be succesful as the star? He has dissapeared in times when his team really needs him numerous times, and has shown up to games almost non existant in a handful. If Kobe leaves, then its up to this guy to be the motivator and leader for his team, with Odom and Bynum as the minions. If anything, I think Kobe's importance is more apparent now, as Kobe has not been having as a good of seasons before, and the team is struggling to find wins.

If LBJ comes off the Heat, who becomes their #1 option? Wade, the team's leader since he was drafted. Wade is a proven superstar who still has what it takes to lead his team to a chip (look back at moments of Heat vs. Bulls). Jack touched on it earlier, it's important to remember that Bosh was a number one option for his team, and now he's a number three. A tough transition no doubt. If LBJ comes off this team, he goes up to number two. This also leaves more touches for the team, that would probably be distributed to Wade and Bosh. If this is the case, Bosh's numbers would likely go back up to what they used to be. Right now I think it's a little harder to realize it since LBJ is a shining star, but I have no doubts that Wade and Bosh could be one of the best little man big man combos in the league. And for the rest of the team, you're right, there's not much to be desired other than perimeter shooting. But think about it son, you're talking about a duo of Wade and Bosh. These two could dominate inside and will reap mass benefits from three point shooters spreading the floor and being able to convert shots on the kickout pass. This team is still properly built for these two players, and will continue to be succesful.

Bottom line, Heat without LBJ > Lakers w/o Kobe.


you and jacks3 are missing the point.

the heat would win at most 55 games without lebron. at most. what would the lakers win without kobe? i'd say around 47 to 52 games.

don't forget that the lakers have a huge coaching advantage. gasol is better than bosh. then you throw in bynum and odom and fisher and brown....etc.

but again...so what?

so lets say the lakers would win 47 games without kobe and the heat would win 53 without lebron. that 6 game difference somehow disqualifies lebron...but not kobe?????

that doesn't make sense at all.

LOL at the idea that lebron's supporting cast is now much better than kobe's. i find this ****ing laughable.

LOL

[kaiiu]

so to be the mvp you have to be the only allstar caliber player on your team?na i think lebron is legit this year...

you gotta red bar why dey hatin on us cleveland n4ggas doe

repped:pimp:

[IN-PAX-WE-TRUST]

Jordan had Pippen. Shaq had Kobe. I don't understand the " Lebron can't win because of Wade" talk.

[IGOTGAME]

you and jacks3 are missing the point.

the heat would win at most 55 games without lebron. at most. what would the lakers win without kobe? i'd say around 47 to 52 games.

don't forget that the lakers have a huge coaching advantage. gasol is better than bosh. then you throw in bynum and odom and fisher and brown....etc.

but again...so what?

so lets say the lakers would win 47 games without kobe and the heat would win 53 without lebron. that 6 game difference somehow disqualifies lebron...but not kobe?????

that doesn't make sense at all.

LOL at the idea that lebron's supporting cast is now much better than kobe's. i find this ****ing laughable.

LOL

You may find it laughable but its true. The supporting cast on the Heat is a good deal better than the Lakers.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

you and jacks3 are missing the point.

the heat would win at most 55 games without lebron. at most. what would the lakers win without kobe? i'd say around 47 to 52 games.

don't forget that the lakers have a huge coaching advantage. gasol is better than bosh. then you throw in bynum and odom and fisher and brown....etc.

but again...so what?

so lets say the lakers would win 47 games without kobe and the heat would win 53 without lebron. that 6 game difference somehow disqualifies lebron...but not kobe?????

that doesn't make sense at all.

LOL at the idea that lebron's supporting cast is now much better than kobe's. i find this ****ing laughable.

LOL

I doubt the Heat would win more than 51 games w/o Lebron IMO.

Lebron has major impact to games that anybody else possesses in this league.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Jordan had Pippen. Shaq had Kobe. I don't understand the " Lebron can't win because of Wade" talk.

Yeah but that was when Kobe was just 21 and wasnt a superstar like in 2000-2001 and beyond.

But still Shaq should have more than 1 MVP :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Dionysus]

I doubt the Heat would win more than 51 games w/o Lebron IMO.

Lebron has major impact to games that anybody else possesses in this league.

You his "Head Boy" now?

[ginobli2311]

He was disqualified when Gasol got traded to the Lakers. That's about the only reason he hasn't won more MVP's. Also how is a coach make you get disqualified for MVP's? That doesn't even make sense, you can have a great coach in team of only average players and the I'll bet the farthest Jackson takes the team in the playoffs. Heck before Gasol, Kobe had Odom and a healthy (bust still developing) Bynum and Jackson didn't take the team to the second round. That doesn't mean he was a bad coach, it just that not even a genius can make a crappy team win it all.
The same case can be made for Lebron now. He is playing with a top 3 player and a great power forward that can play in the post. And the coach is smarter than he looks, being able to handle the ego's of the big three, specially Lebron.

i was responding to a guy that said lebron should not have a chance to win mvp because of his team strength.

and coaching is a part of team strength. if you don't think that phil jackson gives you at least 3 to 5 more wins a year than a guy like spo or an average coach you are sorely mistaken.

that was point. i didn't agree with him at all. i think kobe/wade/lebron should be able to win mvp even though they play with a lot of talent now. they just have to perform better now because of higher expectations. and that is the way it should be.

obviously rose leading the bulls to 57 wins is more impressive than kobe leading the lakers to 57 wins or lebron/wade leading the heat to 57 wins.

so i don't mind that at all. i think they should have to have more team success because they play on better teams. but to come out and say that lebron doesn't even deserve a chance is just retarded. simple as that.

[ginobli2311]

You may find it laughable but its true. The supporting cast on the Heat is a good deal better than the Lakers.

sorry. this is just not true at all. but whatever.

[IGOTGAME]

I doubt the Heat would win more than 51 games w/o Lebron IMO.

Lebron has major impact to games that anybody else possesses in this league.

Wade playing without Bosh and Mike Miller got the Heat to the playoffs last year. Add in a 20/10 big man and they have no chance at winning 52 games? They won 47 last year! Adding Chris Bosh and Mike Miller imo puts them at 55 -57 games and one of the top teams in the league.

If you surround Bosh and Wade with shooters like the Heat have and they are gonna win games. Wade was doing it last year with worst shooters and no Bosh.

[AirJordan&Magic]

so kobe/lebron/wade are disqualified from mvp?

because you could say the same thing about kobe.

How can you be MVP if you have a team as loaded as the lakers (2nd best team in league on paper) and the greatest coach ever with the best front line in the Western Conference? Seriously? Thats a 50 win team even without Kobe.

Though you do have a point about Kobe, you don't seriously agree with this "LeBron is clear-cut mvp" garbage do you?

He has been making his case, but to say it is clear-cut is a bit much.

[ginobli2311]

Wade playing without Bosh and Mike Miller got the Heat to the playoffs last year. Add in a 20/10 big man and they have no chance at winning 52 games? They won 47 last year! Adding Chris Bosh and Mike Miller imo puts them at 55 -57 games and one of the top teams in the league.

If you surround Bosh and Wade with shooters like the Heat have and they are gonna win games. Wade was doing it last year with worst shooters and no Bosh.

heat only on pace to win 59 games this year with lebron. hard to imagine the heat winning 57 without him mate.

[ginobli2311]

Though you do have a point about Kobe, you don't seriously agree with this "LeBron is clear-cut mvp" garbage do you?

He has been making his case, but to say it is clear-cut is a bit much.

no. i have dirk/rose for sure over lebron right now. and most likely will have durant over him as well.

[IGOTGAME]

heat only on pace to win 59 games this year with lebron. hard to imagine the heat winning 57 without him mate.

why? sometimes the excess talent doesnt always manifest itself in way more regular season wins. I don't think Wade would have any issue taking up the slack is Bron wasnt there. I also don't think Bosh would have any problem scoring more points if it was needed. I find nothing "hard to imagine" about a team 47 win team adding a 20/10 franchise big man, a coveted shooting 3 man and other better shoooters winning 10 more games then the year before.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Wade playing without Bosh and Mike Miller got the Heat to the playoffs last year. Add in a 20/10 big man and they have no chance at winning 52 games? They won 47 last year! Adding Chris Bosh and Mike Miller imo puts them at 55 -57 games and one of the top teams in the league.

If you surround Bosh and Wade with shooters like the Heat have and they are gonna win games. Wade was doing it last year with worst shooters and no Bosh.


The East is much better compared to last year.

I doubt they will be good enough to beat the Hawks, Magic, and Bulls

but that is just my opinion

[ginobli2311]

why?

because the heat are paper thin. and both bosh/wade have missed a number of games already that would have been for sure losses without lebron.

like i said. i think they win between 50 and 55 games.

much like the lakers would without kobe. but you can keep pretending that the heat are much better or something.

why don't you go find me a team with a front line as bad as the current heat's front line that won a title that didn't have michael jordan on it in the last 30 years.

[AirJordan&Magic]

I doubt the Heat would win more than 51 games w/o Lebron IMO.

Lebron has major impact to games that anybody else possesses in this league.

The Miami Heat went 47-35 with Wade leading the team without Chris Bosh, Mike Miller, Eddie House, and Mario Chalmers being injured.

You don't think they can win FOUR more games without LeBron this season?

[Dionysus]

Heats Frontline

LeBron, Bosh, Insert starting Center. Not bad.

[ginobli2311]

Heats Frontline

LeBron, Bosh, Insert starting Center. Not bad.

defensively and rebounding....bosh/z/dampier/anthony is really really bad compared to the front lines that normally win.

and by frontline i'm talking about pf/c.

lebron is a great defender, but he can't guard dwight howard or prevent bosh from giving up a ton of offensive boards.

again....find me a pf/c combination as bad as what the heat currently have that has won a title in the last 30 years that didn't have jordan.

waiting......

[IGOTGAME]

because the heat are paper thin. and both bosh/wade have missed a number of games already that would have been for sure losses without lebron.

like i said. i think they win between 50 and 55 games.

much like the lakers would without kobe. but you can keep pretending that the heat are much better or something.

why don't you go find me a team with a front line as bad as the current heat's front line that won a title that didn't have michael jordan on it in the last 30 years.

Lebron/Bosh/Dampier

2 top players and Center who started on an NBA Finals team and took up the rebounding slack for Dirk.

This is actually one of the most talented front lines in recent memory. You have arguably the best player in basketball, a "franchise big man", and defensive and rebounding specialist.

I don't see that as bad.

Are you not satisfied unless they have

Felton/Wade/Lebron/Bosh/Noah

The team has to have all stars/borderline allstars at every position. It that what it takes?

[Ikill]

because the heat are paper thin. and both bosh/wade have missed a number of games already that would have been for sure losses without lebron.

like i said. i think they win between 50 and 55 games.

much like the lakers would without kobe. but you can keep pretending that the heat are much better or something.

why don't you go find me a team with a front line as bad as the current heat's front line that won a title that didn't have michael jordan on it in the last 30 years.
They would easily win 54 games this team without Lebron is still a lot better than last years 47 win team. Even though Lebron brings a lot to the Heat he also makes it harder for Wade and Bosh who had to adjust their games. So in a way there better and worse without Lebron i'm guessing they would win 55-58 wins without Lebron same thing if they didn't have Wade 55-58 wins.

[ginobli2311]

Lebron/Bosh/Dampier

2 top players and Center who started on an NBA Finals team and took up the rebounding slack for Dirk.

This is actually one of the most talented front lines in recent memory. You have arguably the best player in basketball, a "franchise big man", and defensive and rebounding specialist.

I don't see that as bad.

Are you not satisfied unless they have

Felton/Wade/Lebron/Bosh/Noah

The team has to have all stars/borderline allstars at every position. It that what it takes?


like most, you don't factor in defense/rebounding. and bosh/z/damp are all terrible on the defensive end of the court. anthony is ok.

they don't have a paint protector or rim protector defensively. its almost impossible to win without that. lebron is a great defender, but he can't anchor a defense like duncan or kg or chandler..etc.

you clearly don't understand what wins nba titles. not my fault mate. learn the game and its history before you spew bs on here. thanks.

[cleveland]

you gotta red bar why dey hatin on us cleveland n4ggas doe

u see dat shit brah? cause i said and lemme quote myself


so to be the mvp you have to be the only allstar caliber player on your team?na i think lebron is legit this year...

i get a red bar? man **** you who ever negged me jordan shaq and duncan say hello f@g. hatin on us from cleveland. and thank yall for the rep.
ya n i also cant stand lebron neither but he clear cut, and having wade don't make a difference. what :lol

[Dionysus]

defensively and rebounding....bosh/z/dampier/anthony is really really bad compared to the front lines that normally win.

and by frontline i'm talking about pf/c.

lebron is a great defender, but he can't guard dwight howard or prevent bosh from giving up a ton of offensive boards.

again....find me a pf/c combination as bad as what the heat currently have that has won a title in the last 30 years that didn't have jordan.

waiting......

Frontline is SF, C, PF idiot. Back court is PG, SG.

While teams may win with bigger "Front lines", how many teams in NBA history had the 2 best Players in the game in their primes on them? Along with a Top 5 or 6 All Star PF who is use to putting up 20-10 or 18-8 type numbers? Then Mike Miller and countless other players making 3's. Excuse my asking, but is LeBron or Wade you're favorite player? This could be a case of you belittling whats around them to find escape if they lose or win. I do the same with Blake, trying to help my self with that one mate.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

They would easily win 54 games this team without Lebron is still a lot better than last years 47 win team. Even though Lebron brings a lot to the Heat he also makes it harder for Wade and Bosh who had to adjust their games. So in a way there better and worse without Lebron i'm guessing they would win 55-58 wins without Lebron same thing if they didn't have Wade 55-58 wins.

True that

[IGOTGAME]

defensively and rebounding....bosh/z/dampier/anthony is really really bad compared to the front lines that normally win.

and by frontline i'm talking about pf/c.

lebron is a great defender, but he can't guard dwight howard or prevent bosh from giving up a ton of offensive boards.

again....find me a pf/c combination as bad as what the heat currently have that has won a title in the last 30 years that didn't have jordan.

waiting......

you are changing the subject...we were initially discussing how many games the heat would win without Lebron. now you have switched to championships?

Heats are in a odd position. How many teams in the last 20 years have had 3 current top 10 players(the two best players in the league) in the league on the team at one time all in their prime?

The Heat team is in a odd position that has rarely been seen in the hstory of this game. To compare them to historically to teams so unlike them is disingenuous. Any comparison along those lines would make no sense because no team in recent memory(20 years) has had the firepower of the Heat.

[ginobli2311]

you are changing the subject...we were initially discussing how many games the heat would win without Lebron. now you have switched to championships?

Heats are in a odd position. How many teams in the last 20 years have had 3 current top 10 players(the two best players in the league) in the league on the team at one time all in their prime?

The Heat team is in a odd position that has rarely been seen in the hstory of this game. To compare them to historically to teams so unlike them is disingenuous. Any comparison along those lines would make no sense because no team in recent memory(20 years) has had the firepower of the Heat.


first. bosh is not a top ten player.

so you are saying lebron is worth how many wins to this heat team? please answer.

[Dionysus]

you are changing the subject...we were initially discussing how many games the heat would win without Lebron. now you have switched to championships?

Heats are in a odd position. How many teams in the last 20 years have had 3 current top 10 players(the two best players in the league) in the league on the team at one time all in their prime?

The Heat team is in a odd position that has rarely been seen in the hstory of this game. To compare them to historically to teams so unlike them is disingenuous. Any comparison along those lines would make no sense because no team in recent memory(20 years) has had the firepower of the Heat.

Just quote me if you're going to steal my post/point.

[B-Easy]

The Miami Heat went 47-35 with Wade leading the team without Chris Bosh, Mike Miller, Eddie House, and Mario Chalmers being injured.

You don't think they can win FOUR more games without LeBron this season?

Judge Lebrons value by what hes doing on the court ..

Not by assuming Wade would put this team on his back and win 50 w/o him.
We already know Wade is a very valuable player for Miami ..Just like Cleveland being the worst team shows how valuable Lebron is.

The question is who is the MOST valuable player in the league...and right now there isnt anyone matching Lebron .. how can Rose be more valuable if he does NOTHING better than Lebron? ..Lebron is superior in every aspect of the game.

[cleveland]

k guys start flirting somewhere else :lol :lol

[IGOTGAME]

like most, you don't factor in defense/rebounding. and bosh/z/damp are all terrible on the defensive end of the court. anthony is ok.

they don't have a paint protector or rim protector defensively. its almost impossible to win without that. lebron is a great defender, but he can't anchor a defense like duncan or kg or chandler..etc.

you clearly don't understand what wins nba titles. not my fault mate. learn the game and its history before you spew bs on here. thanks.

Trust me I know the game. I also know that you can't compare things that are so different. Its apples to oranges.

No team has ever been built like the Heat, why compare then to teams unlike them?

[ginobli2311]

Frontline is SF, C, PF idiot. Back court is PG, SG.

While teams may win with bigger "Front lines", how many teams in NBA history had the 2 best Players in the game in their primes on them? Along with a Top 5 or 6 All Star PF who is use to putting up 20-10 or 18-8 type numbers? Then Mike Miller and countless other players making 3's. Excuse my asking, but is LeBron or Wade you're favorite player? This could be a case of you belittling whats around them to find escape if they lose or win. I do the same with Blake, trying to help my self with that one mate.

yes i know, but even with a great small forward on both ends....it does not change the fact that the pf/c of the heat is a terrible defensive combination that is going to make winning the title extremely difficult.

you don't know the history of the game if you can't see this. but whatever. i'm not going to debate a FACT. and the fact remains that very few teams in nba history have won without a solid frontline in terms of defense and rebounding....and especially rim protection (which the heat have virtually none of)

it doesn't mean the heat can't win. they can, but its going to be really hard to beat the celtics in the playoffs without anyone to combat the celtics bigs.

[ginobli2311]

Trust me I know the game. I also know that you can't compare things that are so different. Its apples to oranges.

No team has ever been built like the Heat, why compare then to teams unlike them?

and that is fine. but if you are saying they are unlike any team ever. then we have nothing to compare them to fairly...as you said.

so you can't say they are better than the lakers or anything because we don't know.

so it goes both ways.

[IGOTGAME]

first. bosh is not a top ten player.

so you are saying lebron is worth how many wins to this heat team? please answer.

I don't know. Jordan was worth 8 wins(55 to 47) when he retired. Jordan was the moving piece. Lebron I would say is worth around 4 extra wins(extra talent often doesnt mean vastly more regular season wins- the Cavs record should be enough to show that). I think the Heat will win slighly over 60 games, maybe 62-63. If you account for their really bad start they seem to be on that pace.

[Dionysus]

yes i know, but even with a great small forward on both ends....it does not change the fact that the pf/c of the heat is a terrible defensive combination that is going to make winning the title extremely difficult.

you don't know the history of the game if you can't see this. but whatever. i'm not going to debate a FACT. and the fact remains that very few teams in nba history have won without a solid frontline in terms of defense and rebounding....and especially rim protection (which the heat have virtually none of)

it doesn't mean the heat can't win. they can, but its going to be really hard to beat the celtics in the playoffs without anyone to combat the celtics bigs.

Fact also remains that very few teams (if any) had the top 2 players on their team, both in their primes, along with another top 15 All-Star player on their team. It evens it self out because this team is a powerhouse, best since the 80's Lakers. Again, Front line of LeBron (6-9 260lb Forward for christ sakes), Bosh, and Anthony (solid defender and rebounder) is not even close to the worst mate. I think you're reaching quite a bit on this one love.

[IGOTGAME]

and that is fine. but if you are saying they are unlike any team ever. then we have nothing to compare them to fairly...as you said.

so you can't say they are better than the lakers or anything because we don't know.

so it goes both ways.

I guess you can take it that far. Based on what I have seen of my Lakers this year, especially Ron Artest, I would say the Heat are a better more talented and deeper team.

I can't prove this historically, but again I never attempted to.

[ginobli2311]

I don't know. Jordan was worth 8 wins(55 to 47) when he retired. Jordan was the moving piece. Lebron I would say is worth around 4 extra wins(extra talent often doesnt mean vastly more regular season wins- the Cavs record should be enough to show that). I think the Heat will win slighly over 60 games, maybe 62-63. If you account for their really bad start they seem to be on that pace.

in a perfect world...yes.

but the heat have lost haslem/miller for significant amounts of time and both wade and bosh have missed time.

i'm talking about this year. not what would happen in fantasy land with every heat player playing every game.

wade has already missed 4 games and has been less than 100% in many others. bosh has missed 4 games as well.

i just don't see this heat team this year winning more than 55 games without lebron.

with every player 100% for each game? i totally agree with your assertions. but that isn't reality and rarely happens in an nba season.

[cleveland]

they still going at it:lol

[ginobli2311]

Fact also remains that very few teams (if any) had the top 2 players on their team, both in their primes, along with another top 15 All-Star player on their team. It evens it self out because this team is a powerhouse, best since the 80's Lakers. Again, Front line of LeBron (6-9 260lb Forward for christ sakes), Bosh, and Anthony (solid defender and rebounder) is not even close to the worst mate. I think you're reaching quite a bit on this one love.

we'll see what happens. i've never seen a team win a title without the ability to protect the paint and defensive rebound.

those are two huge weaknesses on the heat. and i'm not comparing the heat to an average team. i'm comparing them to the elite teams in the league. of course the heat's bigs don't look terrible to the average teams.

but when you compare them to the lakers/celtics/bulls/magic.....they are much worse imo.

and again. it doesn't mean the heat have no chance. i never said that. i just don't think they will win and it will be because of the play of their bigs.

like i said. we'll see what happen come playoff time. if i'm wrong....i'll be right here to admit it.

[Bandito]

you and jacks3 are missing the point.

the heat would win at most 55 games without lebron. at most. what would the lakers win without kobe? i'd say around 47 to 52 games.

don't forget that the lakers have a huge coaching advantage. gasol is better than bosh. then you throw in bynum and odom and fisher and brown....etc.

but again...so what?

so lets say the lakers would win 47 games without kobe and the heat would win 53 without lebron. that 6 game difference somehow disqualifies lebron...but not kobe?????

that doesn't make sense at all.

LOL at the idea that lebron's supporting cast is now much better than kobe's. i find this ****ing laughable.

LOL
First of all, you are just making up numbers. There is no way you can tell how many wins these Lakers will have without Kobe just because you though of an imaginary number you just made up. Also the way the Heat are playing now they are going for 60, and there is no way Lebron is good for 10 wins just because of how awesome it is not if Wade has something to say about it. Because if I use your imaginary numbers, then Wade has the same case as Lebron, without Wade this Heat team is good for about 47 wins.

[jrong]

why? sometimes the excess talent doesnt always manifest itself in way more regular season wins. I don't think Wade would have any issue taking up the slack is Bron wasnt there. I also don't think Bosh would have any problem scoring more points if it was needed. I find nothing "hard to imagine" about a team 47 win team adding a 20/10 franchise big man, a coveted shooting 3 man and other better shoooters winning 10 more games then the year before.

Not to mention the fact that Z is 4" taller than Heat rotation center last year. That's right, JO was the Heat's tallest big last year at 6'11", and he was hurt so often that Wade often was doing it with 6'9" Anthony or 6'8" Haslem in the pivot. Wade should have been the #2 MVP vote recipient last year.

And on this team, Wade or (James) wins 60 or more without the other. I can't believe people think he could barely crack 50 giving him Bosh who is at least as impactful as Shaq in 06 (not 05 though), Mike Miller who is also better than any player Wade has had the last two years, Eddie House who along with Miller is a better shooter than anyone Wade had since Kapono, a reborn James Jones (where were you last year, JJ??), and a much bigger frontline.

LeBron deserves MVP, but it is not because people's fanciful projections of what the Heat would become without him. And it's also not because of an examination of the current state of the Cavs. The Cavs lost 15'5" worth of their two top centers, and they lost Delonte West, and the current Cavs team is playing without several of their important players who ARE still on the roster.

Is critical thinking a lost art?

[bisk]

I don't think there would be anything wrong should they give him the MVP if he keeps playing like this.

[YAWN]

i don't think the media will give him the award with wade playing like the second or third best player in the league...

If that is to be disregarded, then they need to go back and give shaq some MVPs. he got penalized in the MVP voting for having the 3rd best player in the league on his team...

Wade could get injured or hit a very rough patch to allow Lebron to make a run for it, but the same doors can open up for Wade. Either way I think having each other cancels them both out.

[ginobli2311]

First of all, you are just making up numbers. There is no way you can tell how many wins these Lakers will have without Kobe just because you though of an imaginary number you just made up. Also the way the Heat are playing now they are going for 60, and there is no way Lebron is good for 10 wins just because of how awesome it is not if Wade has something to say about it. Because if I use your imaginary numbers, then Wade has the same case as Lebron, without Wade this Heat team is good for about 47 wins.

but i never said lebron was good for 10 wins on this heat team. i said he's good for about 4 to 7 wins most likely.

let me clear up what i'm saying:

i think that kobe/wade/lebron should all be able to win the mvp. others are saying that lebron and wade should have no chance no matter what because of the team they play on. i think that is absurd logic because these same people are saying that kobe is a leading candidate for mvp.

how does that make sense when kobe's supporting cast is no worse than lebron's really....and if it is worse...its marginally worse. i keep hearing things like "wade won x number of games with players x y z. it doesn't work this way.

i could say the same thing. Gasol won 50 games as the best player on the grizzlies with less help than he would have with this lakers team and a much better coach.

again. it does not work that way.

if wade/kobe/lebron want to win mvp, they need to have great numbers and great team success. and by great team success i mean a noticeably better record than the other leading candidates.

for example:

if the bulls win 57 games this year. i don't see how kobe/wade/lebron can beat out rose unless they win 63 or more games. why? because rose leading the bulls with his circumstances of noah and boozer missing a ton of time to only a few less wins is more impressive.

but to say that lebron shouldn't even have a chance no matter what is just retarded. sorry.

[shortlunatic]

you and jacks3 are missing the point.

the heat would win at most 55 games without lebron. at most. what would the lakers win without kobe? i'd say around 47 to 52 games.

don't forget that the lakers have a huge coaching advantage. gasol is better than bosh. then you throw in bynum and odom and fisher and brown....etc.

I call bull. I think they win less. I still don't think Gasol has what it takes to bring this team to the level it was at prior to Kobe. Like I said earlier, Kobe hasn't been playing a great season this year, and as a result, this team is struggling to find wins. Could you imagine how bad they would be if you pulled him off all together? To me this proves how important Kobe is to his team.


but again...so what?

so lets say the lakers would win 47 games without kobe and the heat would win 53 without lebron. that 6 game difference somehow disqualifies lebron...but not kobe?????

that doesn't make sense at all.

I would like to see where in my post I said this. My post was simply regarding your comment on The lakerser w/o kobe over the heat without lbj. Reading is essential. Practice.


LOL at the idea that lebron's supporting cast is now much better than kobe's. i find this ****ing laughable.

LOL

I never said that either, I said quite the opposite. The Lakers are a better team (meaning quality of players and ability to succed individually), but the Heat are better built (meaning with the current roster, their team is built around the players they have in a way that allows them to succed in ways that other teams won't.) My post was right in the sense of Wade and Bosh being one of the best duos in the league. Please tell me how one of the better little man big man combos in the league can't thrive off a roster with perimeter shooters?

There are numerous people on here who say the same thing. Wade is a proven winner. Add a 20/10 guy like Bosh in to the roster along with a couple three point shooters and you are a legit team.


Low basketball IQ Midget. I F*cked your mom last night

Lol nice. Don't know if this was you, but the immaturity is entertaining.