Dennis Rodman 1 of 12 HOF Finalists for 2011, Pip Weighs In...

[Ruh-Roh]

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/hoffinalists_110218.html

http://www.nba.com/bulls/sites/bulls/files/rodman_110218.jpg


Feb. 18, 2011 (LOS ANGELES, Calif. and SPRINGFIELD, Mass.) – The Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame today announced an elite list of players, coaches, contributors, officials and teams as the 12 finalists to be considered for election in 2011. The recognition of being honored as a Hall of Fame finalist is a career highlight in the sport of basketball. This year’s list includes five-time NBA all-star and two-time Olympic gold medalist Chris Mullin; five-time NBA champion Dennis Rodman; two-time NCAA champion coach Tara VanDerveer and the all-time NCAA wins leader, Division II coach Herb Magee. Mullin joins previous finalists Jamaal Wilkes and Tex Winter to be considered for enshrinement. The announcement was made today in Los Angeles, as part of the 2011 NBA All-Star Weekend.

From the Scottie Article (plenty more was said)
http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/pippen_rodman_101214.html

It was no secret Dennis had his issues away from the game and the media loved to write about his antics. But I don’t believe any of those things should be taken into consideration when discussing whether or not he belongs in the Hall of Fame. It wasn’t about what he did off the court—it should be about the way he played basketball and won. Why should something he did outside of basketball deter in any way his Hall of Fame chances? There are a lot of imperfect athletes in professional sports and what Dennis did away from the game was his own personal life. Shouldn’t he be judged more for what he did as a basketball player?

At the end of the day, I think people will respect what Dennis has accomplished enough to make him a Hall of Famer in 2011. I don’t believe being a Hall of Famer is based on individual accolades. I think winning has a lot to do with it. But perhaps more than that, you simply have to show that you are the best or among the best at what you do. If you can prove that you’re in that elite class on a consistent basis, it speaks volumes about a player’s longevity. It also says that as a player, you were steady, stable and great, and that you deserve to be recognized. Dennis was all of those things. That’s why, based on his career and what he did on the court, Dennis Rodman belongs in the Hall of Fame.




Oh my god. This might actually happen.:D :cheers: :banana: :applause:

[L.Kizzle]

Uh, Reggie Miller didn't even make it as a finalist, wtf!!

[Meticode]

Uh, Reggie Miller didn't even make it as a finalist, wtf!!
Correct. They were talking about it today on ESPN. He'll make it to the HoF though.

[New York Knicks]

Uh, Reggie Miller didn't even make it as a finalist, wtf!!
-No rings
-Never an MVP candidate
-One-dimensional
-Looks like an alien

[ashbelly]

i called this earlier on today.. no way you can deny rodman. Dude played his ass off, every night. People are amazed at kevin love's 15 RPG, Rodman with the bulls once averaged 18RPG :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Ruh-Roh]

Uh, Reggie Miller didn't even make it as a finalist, wtf!!

Reggie is a lock, don't worry. This is something I've been following, talking with friends and posting about a long time though. Especially how hard he got dicked last year. I think media backlash for the chips on some voters shoulders swung it his way this year. Keep the momentum!!!

[kaiiu]

i called this earlier on today.. no way you can deny rodman. Dude played his ass off, every night. People are amazed at kevin love's 15 RPG, Rodman with the bulls once averaged 18RPG :bowdown: :bowdown:
:bowdown: :bowdown: while shutting down your best big

[Ruh-Roh]

-No rings
-Never an MVP candidate
-One-dimensional
-Looks like an alien

I'll bet you cash that Reggie makes it all the way in the next 2 years.

[az00m]

I'll bet you cash that Reggie makes it all the way in the next 2 years.

I'll bite. His commentary can only get him so far.

[L.Kizzle]

Reggie is a lock, don't worry. This is something I've been following, talking with friends and posting about a long time though. Especially how hard he got dicked last year. I think media backlash for the chips on some voters shoulders swung it his way this year. Keep the momentum!!!
He's not a lock, he didn't even get on the ballot his first try (forget being a finalist at that.)

[DeronMillsap]

:cheers: I hope Rodman gets in.

[DuMa]

Rodman's speech. ohh yeah its gonna be a good one. hopefully with alcohol involved.

[The Iron Fist]

Jordan stans are gonna be pissed when Rodman finally gets in.

[ashbelly]

Jordan stans are gonna be pissed when Rodman finally gets in.


why ??

[The Iron Fist]

why ??


Because now Jordan will have played with 2 HOFers and it kills the argument that he had no great inside presence.

[Ruh-Roh]

He's not a lock, he didn't even get on the ballot his first try (forget being a finalist at that.)

When you introduce someone as future HOF'er on air at lease twice a week it soaks in to peoples thoughts, whether they know it or not. Reggie was snubbed this year same way Rodman was last year. He will get in. Mark my words:oldlol: .

[L.Kizzle]

When you introduce someone as future HOF'er on air at lease twice a week it soaks in to peoples thoughts, whether they know it or not. Reggie was snubbed this year same way Rodman was last year. He will get in. Mark my words:oldlol: .
Rodman was at least on the ballot as the final 12, they didn't even put him on the ballot.

[New York Knicks]

I'll bet you cash that Reggie makes it all the way in the next 2 years.
Depends on who else is eligible.

[kaiiu]

Rodman go go in that b!tch lookin like Holiday heart:roll:

[Showtime]

One of the best defenders and rebounders ever. No problem with him getting into the HOF.

[L.Kizzle]

Depends on who else is eligible.
Who retired after Miller that's really worthy of the hall? Gary Payton in 06 is the only one I can think of.

[WesWelkerACL]

I'll bite. His commentary can only get him so far.

His commentary is what's hurting him! It's awful.

[Ruh-Roh]

Because now Jordan will have played with 2 HOFers and it kills the argument that he had no great inside presence.

Playing with HOF'ers doesn't take away from individual greatness. Real Jordan fans are Bulls fans, and we want #91 in there, now damnit.

The only people making those claims didn't see the games & base everything in stats. I know Bill Russell is accused of playing with a million Hall of Famers & to some that is a detriment to his reputation. I didn't see him play with my own two eyes for more than a few full games, but same principal.

[AirTupac]

Rodman! :rockon:

[Showtime]

Because now Jordan will have played with 2 HOFers and it kills the argument that he had no great inside presence.
When people talk about "inside presence", they are obviously referring to an offensively significant player who can draw a certain aspect of the defense and give a level of opportunity to a team not otherwise available. Rodman, while being an elite defensive player and rebounder, was nowhere near even capable offensively. Jordan is still one of the few players to win like he did without a dominating big.

[New York Knicks]

Who retired after Miller that's really worthy of the hall? Gary Payton in 06 is the only one I can think of.
I don't know. I haven't done any research on it, but considering who was chosen ahead of Reggie....Ralph Sampson? LOL. Jamaal Wilkes? LOL.

[New York Knicks]

Because now Jordan will have played with 2 HOFers and it kills the argument that he had no great inside presence.
At least he won. Kobe played with Shaq, Payton, and Malone and LOST.

[Ne 1]

Who retired after Miller that's really worthy of the hall? Gary Payton in 06 is the only one I can think of.

The HOF is a joke if Miller gets in and Artis Gilmore dosen't.

[The Iron Fist]

Playing with HOF'ers doesn't take away from individual greatness. Real Jordan fans are Bulls fans, and we want #91 in there, now damnit.

The only people making those claims didn't see the games & base everything in stats. I know Bill Russell is accused of playing with a million Hall of Famers & to some that is a detriment to his reputation. I didn't see him play with my own two eyes for more than a few full games, but same principal.


I agree, but I've seen it argued through the years that Jordan didn't play with a great cast and has no inside presence.

[The Iron Fist]

At least he won. Kobe played with Shaq, Payton, and Malone and LOST.

:facepalm


and what does Kobe have to do with this?

[ProfessorMurder]

I hope he gets in. I bet he would've had Chuck Daly induct him, if Chuck was still alive...

Can't wait to hear his speech.

[DeronMillsap]

I agree, but I've seen it argued through the years that Jordan didn't play with a great cast and has no inside presence.
No real center is all I've heard....people usually respected Rodman and Grant and gave them credit.

Also, Kukoc is known to be one of the best 6th man in the game.

[DeronMillsap]

:facepalm


and what does Kobe have to do with this?
You kinda brought it in with the whole "Jordan stans will be piss" comment. :lol

[97 bulls]

Congrats to rodman and company. I think he gets in. I really don't see who deserves it more out of the finalists. How many get in a year? Isn't it like 6 or 7?

[L.Kizzle]

Congrats to rodman and company. I think he gets in. I really don't see who deserves it more out of the finalists. How many get in a year? Isn't it like 6 or 7?
They go on votes. 18 out of 24 votes. Hell, if no one gets 18 votes, than I guess no one will get in. I remember one year, I believe on;y 4 got in. Than other like 9 get it.

[The Iron Fist]

When people talk about "inside presence", they are obviously referring to an offensively significant player who can draw a certain aspect of the defense and give a level of opportunity to a team not otherwise available. Rodman, while being an elite defensive player and rebounder, was nowhere near even capable offensively. Jordan is still one of the few players to win like he did without a dominating big.


Who says inside presence should only mean a great offensive player?

I missed that page in the rulebook.

Bill Russell wasn't a great offensive player, but I don't see anyone claiming hes not an inside presence.

and to say Rodman was nowhere near capable offensively is laughable. The kid could score if need be. He didn't have to though as he was the ultimate team player who understood and played his role as best as anyone could. He wasn't one to cry about shots or plays run for him. He understood the team concept as well as anyone in the history of the game and played accordingly.

[The Iron Fist]

You kinda brought it in with the whole "Jordan stans will be piss" comment. :lol

Says who?

Only an insecure moron would think that somehow mentioning Jordan is about Kobe.

[L.Kizzle]

Who says inside presence should only mean a great offensive player?

I missed that page in the rulebook.

Bill Russell wasn't a great offensive player, but I don't see anyone claiming hes not an inside presence.

and to say Rodman was nowhere near capable offensively is laughable. The kid could score if need be. He didn't have to though as he was the ultimate team player who understood and played his role as best as anyone could. He wasn't one to cry about shots or plays run for him. He understood the team concept as well as anyone in the history of the game and played accordingly.
Say what, he wasn't Chamberlain but he was a great player on the block.

[The Iron Fist]

No real center is all I've heard....people usually respected Rodman and Grant and gave them credit.

Also, Kukoc is known to be one of the best 6th man in the game.


Maybe thats what you've heard, but I've seen and read "no dominating big man" numerous times on numerous boards. A big man doesn't have to be a center.

[New York Knicks]

:facepalm


and what does Kobe have to do with this?
Your purpose in life?

[The Iron Fist]

Say what, he wasn't Chamberlain but he was a great player on the block.


But whats he known for?

Its not his offense, which is the same as Rodman. Both are known as defensive masters.

[Ne 1]

I agree, but I've seen it argued through the years that Jordan didn't play with a great cast and has no inside presence.

True.

There has always been a popular myth amongst some fans that Jordan won 6 titles as a one-man. This is far from the truth.

He played with:

-2 hall of famers (Pippen and Rodman)
-4 All-Stars (Pippen, Rodman, Grant, Armstrong)
-2 of the games best defenders (Pippen; the GOAT perimeter defender and Rodman)
-2 of the games best 3 point shooters (Kerr and Kukoc)

Even without Michael Jordan, the Bulls managed to get a staggering 55 wins.

[97 bulls]

They go on votes. 18 out of 24 votes. Hell, if no one gets 18 votes, than I guess no one will get in. I remember one year, I believe on;y 4 got in. Than other like 9 get it.
So technically, all of them can get in?

[DeronMillsap]

But whats he known for?

Its not his offense, which is the same as Rodman. Both are known as defensive masters.
Oh come on, you're gonna like this wasn't a bait to troll comment?

Jordan stans are gonna be pissed when Rodman finally gets in.

It went from Rodman in the ballot and Reggie not in the ballot thread to a Jordan thread...soon it'll be a Jordan vs Kobe thread.

[Ruh-Roh]

You can be as good as Mj was and play on a good team too. Yeah they didn't have a great offensive POST player, but that team is still in the top 5 All-Time undeniably. I say top 2.

Let's keep this on Rodman and not derail it into a Kobe/Lebronfest.

[New York Knicks]

Oh come on, you're gonna like this wasn't a bait to troll comment?


It went from Rodman in the ballot and Reggie not in the ballot thread to a Jordan thread...soon it'll be a Jordan vs Kobe thread.
And as usual, started by a Kobe fan. That's ISH for you.

[The Iron Fist]

Oh come on, you're gonna like this wasn't a bait to troll comment?


It went from Rodman in the ballot and Reggie not in the ballot thread to a Jordan thread...soon it'll be a Jordan vs Kobe thread.


No, it wasn't bait. Its a fact.

You and others think that somehow mentioned Jordan is about Kobe when nobody was even thinking about him.

[The Iron Fist]

And as usual, started by a Kobe fan. That's ISH for you.


Last I checked, Jordan and Rodman won titles together,

so again,

what does Kobe have to do with anything?

[New York Knicks]

Last I checked, Jordan and Rodman won titles together,

so again,

what does Kobe have to do with anything?
I just fast-forwarded it to the point you were trying to make to save everyone the trouble. Run along now.

[The Iron Fist]

I just fast-forwarded it to the point you were trying to make to save everyone the trouble. Run along now.


So because you have Kobe on the mind 24/7,

we all do?
:confusedshrug:


Sorry pal, I don't get down like that. Only the most insecure would think "Kobe" when they read "Jordan" in a thread about Dennis Rodman, his former teammate.

[Holy Random]

Wtf is wrong with these Kobe douche bags coming in this thread. I along with many others believe MJ is GOAT and I along with many others would love to see Dennis get in the hall of fame.

[New York Knicks]

So because you have Kobe on the mind 24/7,

we all do?
:confusedshrug:


Sorry pal, I don't get down like that. Only the most insecure would think "Kobe" when they read "Jordan" in a thread about Dennis Rodman, his former teammate.
Job well done. You turned a Rodman thread into a Kobe thread. Bravo!

[The Iron Fist]

Job well done. You turned a Rodman thread into a Kobe thread. Bravo!


Yes, you did.

Terrible job as always.

[Ne 1]

No real center is all I've heard

What people don't understand is that the way the Bulls were built and the way they played, they didn't need an All-Star caliber center or even a center that was a scoring threat. Which is why they were able to win titles with just serviceable big men at center.

Also during the 2nd three-peat they had Luc Longley at center who's role on the Bulls was actually similar to Andrew Bynum or Kendrick Perkins roles on the Lakers/Celtics.

People don't remember but during the '91 season, Bill Cartwright held every center below their season scoring average. Cartwright's physical defensive game, which includes elbows that have knocked out more than a couple of opponents (Hakeem Olajuwon and Fred Roberts come to mind), was good enough to neutralize other teams bigs that the Bulls went against.

Longley gave them size at 7'2" 265 pound and he also had a decent jumper which pulled bigs out and spread the floor for Jordan and Pippen.

[The Iron Fist]

Ne 1, I know you understand, but many either choose not to, or don't want to,

but when a team has the best sg, the best sf and the best defensive pf in the same lineup,

a great all star center is not necessary.

You summed it up well.

[Walduś]

finally jordan exposed for playing with the most stacked team of all time.

[Ne 1]

Ne 1, I know you understand, but many either choose not to, or don't want to,

but when a team has the best sg, the best sf and the best defensive pf in the same lineup,

a great all star center is not necessary.

You summed it up well.

Yeah, for exampled I've seen "New York Knicks" bring up Cartwright's playoff PPG with the Bulls and then said he was useless.

Cartwright wasn't valuable because of his scoring, he as valuable to Chicago because he was a tall 7'1" big that countered the size of opposing teams centers and complemented Jordan's scoring and Pippen's defense.

[Showtime]

Who says inside presence should only mean a great offensive player?

I'm informing you that in the topic you brought up about Jordan winning without an elite big, that's primarily what people are talking about. No perimeter star in the modern era has won like Jordan won without an elite big (on at least the offensive side of the basketball). Name me one player who won with as shallow of frontlines as Jordan.


and to say Rodman was nowhere near capable offensively is laughable. The kid could score if need be. He didn't have to though as he was the ultimate team player who understood and played his role as best as anyone could. He wasn't one to cry about shots or plays run for him. He understood the team concept as well as anyone in the history of the game and played accordingly.
Dude, if you think you could give the ball on the post to Rodman when you needed a bucket and expect results, then you didn't watch Rodman.

[Ne 1]

finally jordan exposed for playing with the most stacked team of all time.

I wouldn't necessarily say they were the most stacked team of all-time, but they were a great team and were deep. Easily the most talented and stacked team of the 90s, but wouldn't say they were the most stacked ever.

They sure as hell weren't a one-man show or a team that won without a adequate center like some people suggest.

[Showtime]

finally jordan exposed for playing with the most stacked team of all time.
Stacked? No. Cohesive? Probably. They didn't have the most talent. They have the right talent that fit together.

[The Iron Fist]

I'm informing you that in the topic you brought up about Jordan winning without an elite big, that's primarily what people are talking about. No perimeter star in the modern era has won like Jordan won without an elite big (on at least the offensive side of the basketball). Name me one player who won with as shallow of frontlines as Jordan.


Dude, if you think you could give the ball on the post to Rodman when you needed a bucket and expect results, then you didn't watch Rodman.


Doesn't matter what you think when people talk about dominant big man, the fact remains, people claim the Bulls had no inside presence. With their system and the players they had, they didn't need one. Thats the point. Not whether they're talking about an offensive versus a defensive presence because the fact remains, those Bulls teams had inside presence. No, they didn't have a go to big man, but they did have the leagues best at the wings, and a highly dominant rebounder and defender at the pf slot.

Now, since you asked about a player who won without an elite big?

Here he is,

http://www.answersfrommen.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/isiah-thomas-2.jpg


In regards to Rodman, I never said he was a great offensive player nor did I imply he was someone to build an offense around, I just said that he wasn't some slouch with butterfingers when the ball was passed to him as people make him out to be. But, he made up for whatever he didn't do on the offensive end, with rebounding, hustle and all world defense against the NBAs best big men. Interesting tidbit, since this place loves fg% so much,

Rodman has a higher % than Malone, Duncan, Hakeem, Robinson, and Ewing!:applause:

[Showtime]

Doesn't matter what you think when people talk about dominant big man, the fact remains, people claim the Bulls had no inside presence.

And I'm explaining exactly what they mean by that.


With their system and the players they had, they didn't need one. Thats the point.

And everybody else's point is that nobody except Jordan has ever done it, because it's incredibly more difficult to win that way than with an elite big man who can impact both sides of the ball, preferably at the C position.


Now, since you asked about a player who won without an elite big?

Here he is,

http://www.answersfrommen.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/isiah-thomas-2.jpg


Go back and read what I said. I said nobody has won as much as Jordan with frontlines as shallow as his. The pistons won two rings, which is impressive considering they were back-to-back, but what makes what Jordan did especially unique was how much he won.

Also, the Pistons had the most physically imposing team those seasons with a frontline that consisted of Lambeer, Rodman, Mahorn, Edwards, and Salley. Lambeer, in case you were wondering, was a 4 time all star and did impact both sides of the ball. But that was one of those teams where their overall talent and depth made up for the fact that none of them were considered all-nba bigs. So while it is true they didn't have one single elite player, the fact that they had a group of talented and effective bigs certainly made up for it, and in that sense are an anomaly in themselves.

The Bulls, however, never had anything close to that kind of talent and depth, nor did they have a star center. People seem to forget that while Rodman could occasionally guard centers, he wasn't a paint defender. He was very athletic, and active, and played mostly the 4 spot, and rarely blocked shots. Add to that his limited offensive capabilities, and you may start to understand why what Jordan's bulls did was unique.


In regards to Rodman, I never said he was a great offensive player nor did I imply he was someone to build an offense around, I just said that he wasn't some slouch with butterfingers when the ball was passed to him as people make him out to be.

This is what you said in response to my comment:

"to say Rodman was nowhere near capable offensively is laughable"

Rodman was not a capable offensive forward in the traditional sense of what a forward is asked to do. That's like saying Tyson Chandler is a capable offensive player. Rodman could run the break and finish, cleanup around the rim, and occasionally hit a jumpshot with the grace of god. Other than that, his contribution on offense was to move the ball if he happened to have possession, and set screens.

[Ne 1]

And everybody else's point is that nobody except Jordan has ever done it, because it's incredibly more difficult to win that way than with an elite big man who can impact both sides of the ball, preferably at the C position.

That's irrelevant though because an elite scoring big most likely wouldn't have complimented Jordan's game the way the Bulls team did. The stars aligned perfectly for Jordan in that era and he had the perfect cast around him that totally suited his strengths and playing style. Also as talented and deep as the Bulls team was is basically no different from having an elite big.

Even so Chicago had Cartwright and Longley who weren't elite, but solid bigs. Their job was to play defense, box out, hit jump shots, do fundamental things etc. not out score the opposing teams center.


They were huge deterrences inside, with great interior defense of Grant and Rodman. Also Longley's value to the 90s Bulls was actually pretty similar to Bynum on the current Lakers. Their respective roles were very similar.

[MJ23forever]

Longley's value to the 90s Bulls was actually pretty similar to Bynum on the current Lakers. Their respective roles were very similar.

:wtf:

[Ne 1]

Bynum is more talented, but they both had similar roles during their teams championship runs. Both were big bodies who defended and pushed around opposing teams big men (Dwight, Perkins, young Shaq, Alonzo, Rik Smits, Ewing, etc.) They gave their teams a physical presence and allowed superior players (Pau, Rodman) to do different things while they took on the power post players for stretches- they fought for position, boxed them out, etc. That was their main role.

Longley was good for the Bulls because he had a decent jumper which pulled bigs out and spread the floor for Jordan and Pippen. Bynum is good for the Lakers because he gives them good defense and interior toughness and reliable hands for catching and finishing (valuable with Kobe and Odom play making).

Their value was similar. Bynum was the better overall player though.

[Showtime]

That's irrelevant though because an elite scoring big most likely wouldn't have complimented Jordan's game the way the Bulls team did. The stars aligned perfectly for Jordan in that era and he had the perfect cast around him that totally suited his strengths and playing style. Also as talented and deep as the Bulls team was is basically no different from having an elite big.

That doesn't make it any less difficult considering the game of basketball. Because of the dynamics that a good post player brings to the floor, it opens up a lot more possibilities and makes the game easier. It's not irrelevant because it's much more rare for a perimeter player to win like Jordan did with those frontlines. Nobody has done it since, and in history, it's happened very rarely, and never to this extent.


Even so Chicago had Cartwright and Longley who weren't elite, but solid bigs. Their job was to play defense, box out, hit jump shots, do fundamental things etc. not out score the opposing teams center.

Again, this style isn't conducive to winning multiple titles. Have teams been effective with those types of frontlines? Sure. Have they had a championship? Rarely. How about a 3-peat, let alone two? Hell no. It just doesn't happen.



They were huge deterrences inside, with great interior defense of Grant and Rodman. Also Longley's value to the 90s Bulls was actually pretty similar to Bynum on the current Lakers. Their respective roles were very similar.
lol?

[Ne 1]

Doesn't really matter if they had a dominating center or not. Jordan probably wouldn't have even been able to co-exist with one. (He said himself before during the their feud he doesn't know how Kobe plays with Shaq, he wouldn't have been able to do it if he were in his shoes). Again it's irrelevant because the talent and overall cast the Bulls had was the equivalent of having a dominating center.

Also the Bulls actually had a great front court. The best of that era, similar to the 80s Celtics front court. Not as good as the Celtics of course, but relative to their era.

[momo]

Fingers crossed that the worm gets in.

[OldSchoolBBall]

The stars aligned perfectly for Jordan in that era and he had the perfect cast around him that totally suited his strengths and playing style.

Such a freaking JOKE that Kobe stans believe this nonsense. :oldlol:

[Showtime]

Again it's irrelevant because the talent and overall cast the Bulls had was the equivalent of having a dominating center.

Also the Bulls actually had a great front court. The best of that era, similar to the 80s Celtics front court. Not as good as the Celtics of course, but relative to their era.
You are shitting me.

[Ne 1]

Such a freaking JOKE that Kobe stans believe this nonsense. :oldlol:

What? It's the truth.


You are shitting me.

No, I'm actually quite serious.

[Teanett]

Also the Bulls actually had a great front court. The best of that era, similar to the 80s Celtics front court. Not as good as the Celtics of course, but relative to their era.

:no:

[Teanett]

people say jordan did not have a great offensive post player on his team?
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Nevaeh]

people say jordan did not have a great offensive post player on his team?
:roll: :roll: :roll:

Really though. Jordan was hands down the Bulls best post player, particularly the second set of 3-peats. (I'm guessing you meant Jordan).

[Teanett]

Really though. Jordan was hands down the Bulls best post player, particularly the second set of 3-peats. (I'm guessing you meant Jordan).

of course i do.
if young folks cared to watch old bulls games, they'd know they ran a lot of plays through jordan in the post. he was one of the best post players ever.

[KKittles30]

Rodman was a lock hall of famer after his work he put in with the Pistons and his dominance when he was traded to Chicago for peanuts further solidified his greatness! Oh and Dennis Rodman avg. like 25ppg in college so he could score when he needed to like he said in his book but, he learned early on playing with the Bad Boys to find a role and stick to it. So he rebounded and defended better than the majority in the league. I mean 5 of the top 8 rebounding performances were Rodman.

1991–92 Dennis Rodman Detroit Pistons 18.7
1992–93 Dennis Rodman Detroit Pistons 18.3
1973–74 Elvin Hayes* Capital Bullets 18.1
1978–79 Moses Malone* Houston Rockets 17.6
1993–94 Dennis Rodman San Antonio Spurs 17.3
1975–76 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* Los Angeles Lakers 16.9
1994–95 Dennis Rodman San Antonio Spurs 16.8
1996–97 Dennis Rodman Chicago Bulls 16.1

[Kevin_Gamble]

What people don't understand is that the way the Bulls were built and the way they played, they didn't need an All-Star caliber center or even a center that was a scoring threat. Which is why they were able to win titles with just serviceable big men at center.

Also during the 2nd three-peat they had Luc Longley at center who's role on the Bulls was actually similar to Andrew Bynum or Kendrick Perkins roles on the Lakers/Celtics.

People don't remember but during the '91 season, Bill Cartwright held every center below their season scoring average. Cartwright's physical defensive game, which includes elbows that have knocked out more than a couple of opponents (Hakeem Olajuwon and Fred Roberts come to mind), was good enough to neutralize other teams bigs that the Bulls went against.

Longley gave them size at 7'2" 265 pound and he also had a decent jumper which pulled bigs out and spread the floor for Jordan and Pippen.

Yeah I was reading this thread and was like who the fk says Bulls never had inside presence? Bulls always had two solid bigmen during Jordan's run, plus a bunch sitting on the bench ready to come in. Especially Longley-Rodman-Wennington rotation was a killer. And let's not forget just how well these bigs passed the ball.

[Shepseskaf]

[QUOTE]This year

[Niquesports]

As an old-school Knicks fan, I continue to wonder what the hell is going on with Bernard King's candidacy? Is there anyone on the current list better than Bernard? Not Rodman, in my view.

I understand that one of the major reasons for King's non-entry so far is the relatively small number of games that he played, but Good Gawd!! He was one of the most dominant, explosive offensive players ever, and wasn't bad on defense either. He finished a strong second for the '84 MVP award to Bird, and many felt he should have won it.

His candidacy seems to be slipping into a dark hole, and I have no idea why. A Hall of Fame without Bernard King is a joke.
ITs players like King why I think ols players should do the voting. Media is too bias But there are a few things that hold King back. Most of his bestdays were on really weak teams.Also King was know for just scoring not much else.

[Teanett]

ITs players like King why I think ols players should do the voting. Media is too bias But there are a few things that hold King back. Most of his bestdays were on really weak teams.Also King was know for just scoring not much else.

maravich
gervin
english

why not king?

[rodman91]

At least he won. Kobe played with Shaq, Payton, and Malone and LOST.

:roll: :applause: :bowdown: :rockon: :cheers: :oldlol: :D :lol :pimp: AND REPPED!

[rodman91]

True.

There has always been a popular myth amongst some fans that Jordan won 6 titles as a one-man. This is far from the truth.

He played with:

-2 hall of famers (Pippen and Rodman)
-4 All-Stars (Pippen, Rodman, Grant, Armstrong)
-2 of the games best defenders (Pippen; the GOAT perimeter defender and Rodman)
-2 of the games best 3 point shooters (Kerr and Kukoc)

Even without Michael Jordan, the Bulls managed to get a staggering 55 wins.

AND WITH JORDAN,WE DID 2 TIME 3 PEAT. If he didn't retire first time it would be 8 straight years.

He had great cast and did these.There are many other great players who did less with greater cast.

[Teanett]

True.

There has always been a popular myth amongst some fans that Jordan won 6 titles as a one-man. This is far from the truth.

He played with:

-2 hall of famers (Pippen and Rodman)
-4 All-Stars (Pippen, Rodman, Grant, Armstrong)
-2 of the games best defenders (Pippen; the GOAT perimeter defender and Rodman)
-2 of the games best 3 point shooters (Kerr and Kukoc)

Even without Michael Jordan, the Bulls managed to get a staggering 55 wins.

he never played with grant and armstrong when they were all-stars. even rodman wasn't an all-star with the bulls.

and even consider them, it's still little compared to what e.g. kevin garnett had/has:

wally szerbiak
sam cassell
latrell spreewell
jesus
pierce
rondo
sheed
shaq

or kobe:
shaq
horace
glen rice
payton
malone
pau

[az00m]

of course i do.
if young folks cared to watch old bulls games, they'd know they ran a lot of plays through jordan in the post. he was one of the best post players ever.

He was arguably the best post player in his era next too hakeem.

The only other post presences the bulls had was Luc Longly(terrible), and brian williams(97)

[az00m]

Rodman wasn't even in his prime with the bulls. He just had an amazing bball iq.

I guess jordan played with 3 hall of famers because he played with robert parish too.

[redsoxballer]

if Rodman does go in, idk how the hall can justify not letting Bobby Jones or Moncrief in. all 3 deserve imo, as all 3 are arguably the best defensive players ever at their positions

[Teanett]

if Rodman does go in, idk how the hall can justify not letting Bobby Jones or Moncrief in. all 3 deserve imo, as all 3 are arguably the best defensive players ever at their positions

7 straight rebounding titles.

[Ne 1]

AND WITH JORDAN,WE DID 2 TIME 3 PEAT. If he didn't retire first time it would be 8 straight years.

He had great cast and did these.There are many other great players who did less with greater cast.

What makes you so sure of that? Even with Jordan back in '95 the Bulls lost to Orlando in the 2nd round due to the absence of Grant.

[97 bulls]

people say jordan did not have a great offensive post player on his team?
:roll: :roll: :roll:
Actually, the bulls didn't have a great post up center. But along with jordan, pippen had a strong post game, as well as kukoc. So they still could expose a post up mismatch. Even longley could post up occasionally.

[97 bulls]

7 straight rebounding titles.
Along with 2 dpoys and 5 championships. As well as the multiple all-dense teams

[sh0wtime]

-No rings
-Never an MVP candidate
-One-dimensional
-Looks like an alien

This is exactly why he has to be a HOF, to this day you Knicks fans cant forget what Reggie did to you. :oldlol:

[rodman91]

What makes you so sure of that? Even with Jordan back in '95 the Bulls lost to Orlando in the 2nd round due to the absence of Grant.
Rodman made bulls win 72 game and sweep Magic? i mean Rodman is my favorite player (as you can see from my nick) and made Bulls much better but i think it was about Jordan's lack of game.(only 17 games before playoffs after 1.5 years of retirement) He played great in series but he wasn't ready.

[Harion]

Rodman was my favorite player on the Bulls next to Pippen. Jordan was 3rd.

[Ne 1]

This is exactly why he has to be a HOF, to this day you Knicks fans cant forget what Reggie did to you. :oldlol:


What would that be? Seldom beat them?

Sorry, but if you look at his career objectively he's hardly a HOF lock. Borderline HOFer at best.

[Ne 1]

Honestly why exactly is he balled as the '"Knicks killer" when the Knicks beat him in the playoffs more than he beat them.

He's so fondly remembered for the famous game 5 at MSG, but most people don't even know that the Pacers lost that series.

[GiveItToBurrito]

Uh, Reggie Miller didn't even make it as a finalist, wtf!!

Is Cheryl in? They both deserve it. I know Reggie didn't put up 30 a game or something, but I still remember him being the second best shooting guard in the game in the 90s, maybe third after Clyde (I'm talking pre-prime Kobe here). I know he didn't win rings, but his teams were ALWAYS very good, usually 50+ win ones, and efficiency really should count for something here.

[Ne 1]

but I still remember him being the second best shooting guard in the game in the 90s

Clyde Drexler and Mitch Richmond were easily better.

You could even make a case for players like Drazen Petrovic, Joe Dumars, Hersey Hawkins and Jeff Hornacek being better during the 90s.

[Teanett]

Clyde Drexler and Mitch Richmond were obviously better.

You could even make a case for players like Drazen Petrovic, Joe Dumars, Hersey Hawkins and Jeff Hornacek being better during the 90s.

and spreewell!

[D.J.]

I'm actually surprised Mullin got in. His numbers in his prime were definitely HOF calibur, but his prime was very short due to injuries. His prime spanned six seasons, but he played in 60 or fewer games in two of those seasons.

As for Reggie, he was never a top 2-3 SG in the league. His biggest strengths were his clutchness and his longevity. He was never dominant.

[SkyR#1fanCapCou]

Because now Jordan will have played with 2 HOFers and it kills the argument that he had no great inside presence.

And Kobe stans will be pissed since now Jordan fans can say that Jordan beat the 1990-91 Pistons with 3 actual HOF'ers

[comerb]

Because now Jordan will have played with 2 HOFers and it kills the argument that he had no great inside presence.

Actually we really don't care. Most of us loved Rodman. And Jordan beat Rodman when he was arguably at his best(Pistons).

It's not like it magically will make Kobe the better player(because we all know its not even close), which is what I'm guessing your getting at.

[comerb]

What makes you so sure of that? Even with Jordan back in '95 the Bulls lost to Orlando in the 2nd round due to the absence of Grant.

Because Jordan had just come off retirement?

[SkyR#1fanCapCou]

True.

There has always been a popular myth amongst some fans that Jordan won 6 titles as a one-man. This is far from the truth.

He played with:

-2 hall of famers (Pippen and Rodman)
-4 All-Stars (Pippen, Rodman, Grant, Armstrong)
-2 of the games best defenders (Pippen; the GOAT perimeter defender and Rodman)
-2 of the games best 3 point shooters (Kerr and Kukoc)

Even without Michael Jordan, the Bulls managed to get a staggering 55 wins.

Quoting off of PAH is pointless. Rodman, while he should be in the HOF, isn't yet.

[LA_Showtime]

Rodman definitely deserves a bid, but to put him over Reggie Miller... come on now.

[D.J.]

Rodman definitely deserves a bid, but to put him over Reggie Miller... come on now.


I would put Rodman in over Reggie. He was extremely dominant on the defensive end, two DPOYs, seven All-Defensive 1st teams, an All-Defensive 2nd team, two All-NBA 3rd teams, and led the league in rebounding for seven consecutive seasons.

[L.Kizzle]

Clyde Drexler and Mitch Richmond were easily better.

You could even make a case for players like Drazen Petrovic, Joe Dumars, Hersey Hawkins and Jeff Hornacek being better during the 90s.
No case can be made, except for Joe Dumars. Petro, we don't know what could have bee. Horny and Hersey, nope.

[DeronMillsap]

I know the induction is in August/September but when do they announce the players/coaches who are going in.

Is around the time of Finals or Draft?

[L.Kizzle]

I know the induction is in August/September but when do they announce the players/coaches who are going in.

Is around the time of Finals or Draft?
Final Four weekend.

[DeronMillsap]

Final Four weekend.
:cheers: Thanks. Earlier than I thought.

[Bandito]

Because now Jordan will have played with 2 HOFers and it kills the argument that he had no great inside presence.
Dude he didn't have any inside presence at all in his team, at least offensively...in the first three peat he had Grant, a poor's man Rodman...

[the_wise_one]

Rodman doesn't deserve it.
This is a travesty.

[Duncan21formvp]

-No rings
-Never an MVP candidate
-One-dimensional
-Looks like an alien

But a guy with 2 allstar games and was one dimensional is going to make despite only being the 3rd or 4th best player on his teams.

[Duncan21formvp]

Jordan stans are gonna be pissed when Rodman finally gets in.

Why is this? Rodman didn't even make an allstar team with the Bulls.