When LeBron's athleticism declines....

[EleganceD]

where would he rank in the NBA? How good would he be? Is he still an elite player?

[asdf1990]

u have to ask nosteradaumas.

[2LeTTeRS]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=209914

[YouCallILose]

Top 15ish

20/6/7 on 45% or so

[ImmortalD24]

Who knows if he or anyone else lives that long..

[Ikill]

isn't his athleticism already declining?

[CelticBaller]

Unless he improves his shooting skills, he will be top 10

[2swift4u]

isn't his athleticism already declining?


well he looked pretty damn fast & explosive to me in the ASG! :confusedshrug:

[Mr Clutch Melo]

isn't his athleticism already declining?

Maybe but he is still a freak of nature.:bowdown:

[Ikill]

well he looked pretty damn fast & explosive to me in the ASG! :confusedshrug:
He was okay, clearly not as athletic as he used to be but still a great athlete

[Kingwillball]

where would he rank in the NBA? How good would he be? Is he still an elite player?


I still think he can be a low 22,7,7 even into his early 30's..

[tommy3]

He was okay, clearly not as athletic as he used to be but still a great athlete
:roll:

[Ikill]

Maybe but he is still a freak of nature.:bowdown:
yeah but how much longer can he keep it if he's already declining athletically

[ashbelly]

rebound and assists ?? his point might go down though.

[Noob Saibot]

Bron's physique is the best in basketball, he could outrun and outjump all other players for the next 7 years and still be a beast athletically.

[N0Skillz]

Lebron after his athleticism declines


23/12/6


He's always been a good passer so =)

[kidachi]

isn't his athleticism already declining?


are you serious or high?

[rodman91]

He will be still strongest guy for his position and faster than average SF.Height,court vision,dribling skills will be same.Maybe he will be score less and assist more but will be efficient.

[Nastradamus]

u have to ask nosteradaumas.

I'll assume you were talking about me, haha.

I think Lebron is still pretty special minus athleticism due to his strength and passing skills. His jumper will only get better too.

[IN-PAX-WE-TRUST]

Lebron will need to develop some kind of a mid range jumper by the time he hits 30. If he doesn't then he will no longer be a top 10 player. He will always be an amazing passer but his ability to score 25+ will be gone.

[Bandito]

The thing about his assists , if you see his games, most of them come from inside out. If he isn't as quick to go to the paint the it makes sense his assists will go down. If he does develops a post game his point average will stay about the same though, but his FG will go all the way down.

[KenneBell]

are you serious or high?
I think he's starting but only a little bit. Things that used to be giant tomahawks are turning into finger rolls, stuff like that. He can still get up higher than everyone else though so it really doesn't matter at this point.

[Ikill]

are you serious or high?
:lol

[Ikill]

I think he's starting but only a little bit. Things that used to be giant tomahawks are turning into finger rolls, stuff like that. He can still get up higher than everyone else though so it really doesn't matter at this point.
His quickness and vertical are the main things that have taken a hit, but he probably still has the same speed, and he's stronger. But his vertical seems very average his head doesn't even seem to be getting at back board.

[Indian guy]

Given he's been about 75% the athlete this season compared to his old self, I'd say he's transitioning just fine.

[Bandito]

Maybe he isn't declining, maybe he is just exhausted or even worse injured.

[Ikill]

Maybe he isn't declining, maybe he is just exhausted or even worse injured.
It's probably a combination of being so heavy and playing so many minutes early in his career.

[tpols]

Given he's been about 75% the athlete this season compared to his old self, I'd say he's transitioning just fine.
lol at you exxagerating his athletic decline to overrate his skills/ability to cope without athleticism..

Lebron is still just as fast with the ball in the open court, and he is still just as fast out of the triple threat position. Even if you want to exxagerrate the decline his jumping ability, Lebron's speed, strength, and quickness is still there and it is that speed/strength in the open court and while he is dribbling that gives him 99% of his athletic advantage over the competition(while his jumping ability accounts for almost nothing in the overall production scheme).

[Bandito]

It's probably a combination of being so heavy and playing so many minutes early in his career.
Probably. Maybe next year they'll start to use him for less minutes. I always thought that is what happened in that playoffs against the Celtics last year.

[Ikill]

lol at you exxagerating his athletic decline to overrate his skills/ability to cope without athleticism..

Lebron is still just as fast with the ball in the open court, and he is still just as fast out of the triple threat position. Even if you want to exxagerrate the decline his jumping ability, Lebron's speed, strength, and quickness is still there and it is that speed/strength in the open court and while he is dribbling that gives him 99% of his athletic advantage over the competition(while his jumping ability accounts for almost nothing in the overall production scheme).
I don't think his jumping is there his quickness is a bit down too sometimes he can blow past anyone other times he can look really slow. But yeah he still has his speed and strength.

[Pointguard]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5523849&postcount=56

The guy who toke care of his body and is of most similiar body type to Lebron is Karl Malone. Malone was still in prime peak at 34 years old<-- 1998 Karl was at 27ppg and 10 boards, 4 assist, shooting 530% and getting 10 FTA. And Karl made a living off contact and should have more wear and tear on his body.

Malone didn't come off of his regular peak until 37 years old. So don't hold your breath. Lebron's game can transition better than most players because he's always played a versatile game and different positions anyway and his skill sets will help on all parts of the floor. Plus now in south beach he's under way less wear and tear. Wow, at the people daydreaming about the day he isn't dominant, LOL.

[Bandito]

Yeah but Malone didn't enter the league until he was like 22 years old. He didn't average almost 40 minutes in his rookie year either. There is a difference in how many minutes they have played in the league, where at the same age you cannot compare Lebron knees to malone's. Lebron's career is similar to Kobe as they entered the league around the same age and still Lebron has played more minutes than Kobe when you compared their 7th season. That is why I say he is going to decline around the same time than Kobe. Look at Garnett, didn't he start to decline around the same time as Kobe, and MCgrady too (of course he was because of injuries).

[EleganceD]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5523849&postcount=56

The guy who toke care of his body and is of most similiar body type to Lebron is Karl Malone. Malone was still in prime peak at 34 years old<-- 1998 Karl was at 27ppg and 10 boards, 4 assist, shooting 530% and getting 10 FTA. And Karl made a living off contact and should have more wear and tear on his body.

Malone didn't come off of his regular peak until 37 years old. So don't hold your breath. Lebron's game can transition better than most players because he's always played a versatile game and different positions anyway and his skill sets will help on all parts of the floor. Plus now in south beach he's under way less wear and tear. Wow, at the people daydreaming about the day he isn't dominant, LOL.
You understand Malone was one of the greatest post players of all-time right? While LeBron has one of the worst post games ever, despite having a tremendous physique for it? :confusedshrug:

[Ikill]

Yeah but Malone didn't enter the league until he was like 22 years old. He didn't average almost 40 minutes in his rookie year either. There is a difference in how many minutes they have played in the league, where at the same age you cannot compare Lebron knees to malone's. Lebron's career is similar to Kobe as they entered the league around the same age and still Lebron has played more minutes than Kobe when you compared their 7th season. That is why I say he is going to decline around the same time than Kobe. Look at Garnett, didn't he start to decline around the same time as Kobe, and MCgrady too (of course he was because of injuries).
He'll probably start to decline a little bit earlier than Kobe, he played 40 minutes every year for his first 5 years and barely missed a game. Kobe didn't start playing a lot until his 3rd year and even then he was missing lots of games the first time he played 80 games was in his 6th year.

[rodman91]

You understand Malone was one of the greatest post players of all-time right? While LeBron has one of the worst post games ever, despite having a tremendous physique for it? :confusedshrug:

Also as PF strenght is most important factor about athletism.Then speed,quickness,vertical..However james play as small forward which declining in athleticism will cause trouble more than it does to Malone.

However he will be still better athlet than many other SF when he will get old.Unless if he has major injury he will be as athletic as he can produce really well.He will be still big,strong with ball handling skills,court vision.Iverson, even with 6'0 frame was still productive even he wasn't as quick as used to be.Athletism doesnt fade out so quickly.Especially for a freak of nature.

[LA_Showtime]

He's already improved dramatically as a shooter, and his footwork is 10x was it was his rookie year. He'll be fine.

[che guevara]

Given he's been about 75% the athlete this season compared to his old self, I'd say he's transitioning just fine.
He looked like his old self in the AS game to me. But yeah, the last month or so he's looked slower and less explosive than usual but his stats didn't go down at all.

[LA_Showtime]

He looked like his old self in the AS game to me. But yeah, the last month or so he's looked slower and less explosive than usual but his stats didn't go down at all.

Nah. He definitely can't jump as high nor explode as quickly as he used to. That dunk in the all-star game was pure power. Had it been a year or two ago he would've got higher.

I don't see why LeBron can't transition into life without elite athleticism. He's still a freak athlete. He's still a 6'9 freak who can dribble, shoot, and overpower his man. He's still got the best court vision in the NBA sans a few select point guards. The guy will be fine.

[rodman91]

He looked like his old self in the AS game to me. But yeah, the last month or so he's looked slower and less explosive than usual but his stats didn't go down at all.

He seemed little slower,less agile and less explosive this year to me too.Maybe he doesn't force himself psychically until he needs it or maybe his weight is even too much for Lebron.He looks much bigger than first years in nba.

[rodman91]

Nah. He definitely can't jump as high nor explode as quickly as he used to. That dunk in the all-star game was pure power. Had it been a year or two ago he would've got higher.

I don't see why LeBron can't transition into life without elite athleticism. He's still a freak athlete. He's still a 6'9 freak who can dribble, shoot, and overpower his man. He's still got the best court vision in the NBA sans a few select point guards. The guy will be fine.

we wrote almost same things..common sense works :cheers:

[LA_Showtime]

He seemed little slower,less agile and less explosive this year to me too.Maybe he doesn't force himself psychically until he needs it or maybe his weight is even too much for Lebron.He looks much bigger than first years in nba.

I doubt it's his weight, and unlike earlier in the year I don't think he'd be able to just lose 5 or 10 pounds. He's basically all muscle. I doubt he's more than 8% body fat. He's just filled out and because of that he's not as explosive as he used to be, which makes sense as he's getting older and has a lot of mileage on those knees.

Then again, he showed a similar dip in athleticism a year ago and then we all know what happened. He suddenly regained that lost athleticism and threw down a ridiculous dunk.

[monkeypox]

Even if his athleticism declines, he'll still have his height/build and court vision/iq. If he can develop an outside shot, he should be able to stay elite as long as Kobe has. I think for him it might come down to passion and desire. He's never been that big a fan of basketball or winning. Not on the level of a Jordan at least.

[LA_Showtime]

Even if his athleticism declines, he'll still have his height/build and court vision/iq. If he can develop an outside shot, he should be able to stay elite as long as Kobe has. I think for him it might come down to passion and desire. He's never been that big a fan of basketball or winning. Not on the level of a Jordan at least.

LeBron has already dramatically improved his outside shot. He's more consistent and he doesn't fade back nearly as much as he used to. I doubt he'll ever have to be as good of a shooter as Kobe is, mainly because he's so big. Players will ALWAYS have to play off him because of his strength and ball handling skills.

And please, you have no reason to believe he lacks the passion of a Michael Jordan or Bill Russel. Did he not give up a couple million dollars AND his reputation to join forces with Wade and Bosh? He wants to win, period.

[2LeTTeRS]

You understand Malone was one of the greatest post players of all-time right? While LeBron has one of the worst post games ever, despite having a tremendous physique for it? :confusedshrug:

Malone didn't score most of his points with his back to the basket in the block. He mostly got his points using his solid mid-range J, by playing the pick and roll, or in transition.

[lefthook00]

Can't be this fast forever... :eek: :eek: :eek:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3TqUE1_hIc

[monkeypox]

LeBron has already dramatically improved his outside shot. He's more consistent and he doesn't fade back nearly as much as he used to. I doubt he'll ever have to be as good of a shooter as Kobe is, mainly because he's so big. Players will ALWAYS have to play off him because of his strength and ball handling skills.

And please, you have no reason to believe he lacks the passion of a Michael Jordan or Bill Russel. Did he not give up a couple million dollars AND his reputation to join forces with Wade and Bosh? He wants to win, period.

I don't think either of those points to his competitiveness and will to win. He's said since the beginning his objective is to be rich an famous, and all his choices seem to be pointing in that direction. Going to Miami didn't seem to be about him winning, it was about him being there to win to up his value. Given his level of talent he should have won at least one finals game at this point. I think MJ given that same situation would have won at least one game against the spurs purely based on his will to win it. When Lebron started having a hard time, he gave up.

[redsoxballer]

His skillset is very limited. 15-18 ppg/5apg/6rpg on 42-44% shooting is being generous

[rodman91]

Even if his athleticism declines, he'll still have his height/build and court vision/iq. If he can develop an outside shot, he should be able to stay elite as long as Kobe has. I think for him it might come down to passion and desire. He's never been that big a fan of basketball or winning. Not on the level of a Jordan at least.

His shooting going fine..but he needs to develop post game.Its waste not to use such big frame when Jordan,Kobe were succesful post players.

About passion and desire,to me Lebron doesn't seem to have courage to compete sometimes because of possibility of failure.Jordan was like he could miss 20 shots and not in stress to fail at 21.Same as Kobe.Lebron probably don't have such mentality yet.Maybe its because he was a big name before touching the ball in NBA.When kobe airballs clutch shot nobody was caring about him.Jordan in first years wasn't as big name as Lebron is.Lebron had the pressure that Jordan or Kobe didnt have to deal in early years.

[KenneBell]

LeBron has already dramatically improved his outside shot. He's more consistent and he doesn't fade back nearly as much as he used to
That's overstating things a bit. His percentage from 16-23 hasn't changed in 3 years and his 3pt % isn't much different either.

I think he's been a good outside shooter when he can spot up and/or get his feet set.

[RedBlackAttack]

James is always going to be able to get a good look on his jumpshots, even when his athleticism begins to decline (I don't think that is as far off as some may think), because he is so tall, long and he gets such good height on his jumper. Even when defenses begin edging closer to him as his ability to blow by them diminishes, he will be able to get up and over almost any perimeter defender out there.

With the way his jumpshot has improved over the years, that alone will still make him a successful scorer in this league.

On the other hand, I'm not all that certain that he will ever establish a really good post-game. His footwork with his back to the basket has always been very suspect. I'm not sure that having good feet is an asset that you can acquire in your late-20s and after having played a completely different style of basketball all of your life.

He is always going to have instances where he is successful in the post, because he is so big and strong, he can simply overpower many guys. That won't go away as he ages (in fact, it may become more prevalent). But, that isn't the kind of offense you can rely upon consistently.

His court awareness will always be there, as well, but I do wonder what will happen to his ability to run an offense when he is no longer able to completely breakdown a defense whenever he wants off of the dribble.

There are a lot of question marks as James ages.

[SirPresident]

I think people are making too much out of his impending athletic decline. Sure his speed and vert will start to drop a bit, possibly fairly soon here... but he is still gonna be insanely strong, and lets not forget about his height and reach at his position. The dude isn't just speed and ups, he is a freak of nature of its gonna take a while before he loses all the things that help him be great.

so sure he may decline a bit here, but i think his strength alone if he uses it correctly as well as mass at his position can help him out a lot. Even if he is a bit slower who's really gonna wanna stand in his way when he gets a full head of steam going?

[rodman91]

I dont think lebron will develop good post game after this age too.He seems he is more in jump shoots or driving to lane.Players who plays good post offense usually have some post game in earlier years.

However,that size,strenght,ball handling,court vision would do fine with less athletism and more experience.

[Pointguard]

You understand Malone was one of the greatest post players of all-time right? While LeBron has one of the worst post games ever, despite having a tremendous physique for it? :confusedshrug:

WTF does this got to do with anything??? Comon now. It's not that hard to read and quote another post! Wait, let me guess, you were hating on the English teacher.

[rodman91]

I think people are making too much out of his impending athletic decline. Sure his speed and vert will start to drop a bit, possibly fairly soon here... but he is still gonna be insanely strong, and lets not forget about his height and reach at his position. The dude isn't just speed and ups, he is a freak of nature of its gonna take a while before he loses all the things that help him be great.

so sure he may decline a bit here, but i think his strength alone if he uses it correctly as well as mass at his position can help him out a lot. Even if he is a bit slower who's really gonna wanna stand in his way when he gets a full head of steam going?

True, and as mentioned he is not some average athletic player.He is a freak of nature.Even his athletism today fade away he would be still more athletic than average player.And his strenght going nowhere.Basicly he will be always athletic enough even not today's level.Unless a major injury he will continue to use his body well.

[PP34Deuce]

LOL. He hasnt lost anything but maybe a lil vertical. but thats expected... Vince kinda lost regularly being head level at 26-27 years old.

He was never super agile....Laterally he was average at 22. Open field speed has always been his thing. He also conserves his energy. Hes shown us the drunks adn crazy vertical, he doesnt have to do that All the time.

[Pointguard]

I don't think either of those points to his competitiveness and will to win. He's said since the beginning his objective is to be rich an famous, and all his choices seem to be pointing in that direction. Going to Miami didn't seem to be about him winning, it was about him being there to win to up his value. Given his level of talent he should have won at least one finals game at this point. I think MJ given that same situation would have won at least one game against the spurs purely based on his will to win it. When Lebron started having a hard time, he gave up.

Michael at the same age had not won a finals game and he had superior people around him. When Jordan was 23, a year older than Lebron when he took his team to the finals against the Spurs, Jordan was swept in the first round by the Celtics, that was no where the defensive team the Spurs were. Lebron never quit against the Spurs despite being on an island all alone. His teammates were embarrassingly left open and kept missing. Lebron was by himself then and 4 years later. And he never bashed his teammates.

[Jacks3]

Considering he's easily the best in the game even with his athleticism declining, I'd say he'll do just fine.

[Pointguard]

Yeah but Malone didn't enter the league until he was like 22 years old. He didn't average almost 40 minutes in his rookie year either. There is a difference in how many minutes they have played in the league, where at the same age you cannot compare Lebron knees to malone's. Lebron's career is similar to Kobe as they entered the league around the same age and still Lebron has played more minutes than Kobe when you compared their 7th season. That is why I say he is going to decline around the same time than Kobe. Look at Garnett, didn't he start to decline around the same time as Kobe, and MCgrady too (of course he was because of injuries).

As a rookie, when you are a teen and before you are under 22 years old your body totally recovers from that. The knees might feel something tho. Lebron and Kobe have different body types so I doubt they will be equal in longevity. And I don't think Kobe is shot now either. The bigger guys seem to last longer than smaller guys in basketball. Lebron is built like Malone and Rodman.

[LA_Showtime]

That's overstating things a bit. His percentage from 16-23 hasn't changed in 3 years and his 3pt % isn't much different either.

I think he's been a good outside shooter when he can spot up and/or get his feet set.

Compared to his rookie year, LeBron HAS dramatically improved as a shooter, and it's only going to get better with age. Stats only tell half the story.

[DuMa]

1/2 of lebron's game doesnt rely on his athleticism. his passing ability alone will help him stay elite.

[tpols]

1/2 of lebron's game doesnt rely on his athleticism. his passing ability alone will help him stay elite.
Lebron's passing game is completely predicated on his ability to draw in the defense with his.. athleticism. He's a great passer obviously, but it his vision and awareness to find the open man(that he made open) that makes him a truly great passer..

He should still be elite for another 5 years or so and he'll really start declining around his 13th or 14th season..

[Hoopz2332]

still beasting:rockon: