The GOAT without a ring.

[az00m]

Who is the greatest player of all time that does not have a ring?
Karl Malone for me.

[KG5MVP]

lebron james

[Bigsmoke]

Lebron James

[KingBeasley08]

lebron james
for once i agree with gods gift

[redsoxballer]

What has Lebron done to surpass Malone? The Mailman had like 18 allstar worthy seasons. Hes second in career points, and led his team to 2 Finals, and would have 2 or 3 rings if a few things go right (doesnt get hurt on Lakers, MJ, actually has a decent 2nd scorer, etc.) Lebron has put some nice numbers, and has like 5 allstar worthy seasons. 18 > 5. 2 good Finals performances > Worst finals performance by a star player in NBA history

[cleveland]

hes still playing dumbies :lol

[Cowboy Thunder]

Wilt Chamberlain

[shallehalle]

What has Lebron done to surpass Malone? The Mailman had like 18 allstar worthy seasons. Hes second in career points, and led his team to 2 Finals, and would have 2 or 3 rings if a few things go right (doesnt get hurt on Lakers, MJ, actually has a decent 2nd scorer, etc.) Lebron has put some nice numbers, and has like 5 allstar worthy seasons. 18 > 5. 2 good Finals performances > Worst finals performance by a star player in NBA history
Lebron has two MVP's
Led a team with no talent to the Finals
Worst performance of a team, not Lebron, because Spurs just defended LEbron and the rest of his team sucked just like all his first 7 years

[LAClipsFan33]

Con-census on this by NBA historians is always Elgin Baylor

[Actinium59]

Wilt Chamberlain
Wilt doesn't have a ring. He has two. :no:

[Cowboy Thunder]

Oh snap, thow me a sprite cuz! I thuht we uz talkin bout wedding rings. Smh. Fo sho doe like

[Bigsmoke]

What has Lebron done to surpass Malone? The Mailman had like 18 allstar worthy seasons. Hes second in career points, and led his team to 2 Finals, and would have 2 or 3 rings if a few things go right (doesnt get hurt on Lakers, MJ, actually has a decent 2nd scorer, etc.) Lebron has put some nice numbers, and has like 5 allstar worthy seasons. 18 > 5. 2 good Finals performances > Worst finals performance by a star player in NBA history

I seen both of those guys play and Lebron is a better player.

Malone played with another HOFer in his prime next to him.

Lebron had.... Mo Williams.

[Glide2keva]

Wilt Chamberlain
'72

[SkyR#1fanCapCou]

Oh snap, thow me a sprite cuz! I thuht we uz talkin bout wedding rings. Smh. Fo sho doe like

If we're talking wedding rings than Wilt probably has 20,000 of them

[miller-time]

active i'd say nash and lebron - both 2 time MVPers

all time i'd say malone and stockton

[number23]

Barkley > Malone

[jlauber]

Wilt Chamberlain

Yep...the same Wilt that couldn't score 10 points a game against Russell, and who routinely not only was outplayed in game seven's, but who struggled to put up 4 points and 3 rebounds in them.

He could never win a ring, he was a perpetual loser, and he always choked in big games.

[pauk]

lebron james

im a lebron homer and all that but im not 100% sure if he has surpassed karl malone
i mean karl malone is like easily top 10-15 player somewhere of all time

[Sarcastic]

Baylor, Barkley, Malone, Ewing.

[Sarcastic]

im a lebron homer and all that but im not 100% sure if he has surpassed karl malone
i mean karl malone is like easily top 10-15 player somewhere of all time

I hate Lebron, and I KNOW he is already better than Karl Malone.

[OldSchoolBBall]

GOAT as in "their career resume would look the best with a ring added" is Karl Malone.

GOAT as in "the best player who adding a ring to would validate their status as an all-time legend" is Barkley imo.

[pauk]

I hate Lebron, and I KNOW he is already better than Karl Malone.

ofcourse he is! he is easily one of the best top 5 ever to play this game when u talk about skill talent and so on,
wilt oscar bird jordan and lebron i think were the most skilled talented ever
but im talking about career! is lebrons career already better than karl malones?
if so then lebrons career is very near top 10 of all time already! thats scary

[che guevara]

ofcourse he is! he is easily one of the best top 5 ever to play this game when u talk about skill talent and so on
but im talking about career!
is lebrons career already better than karl malones?
if so then lebron is very near top 10 of all time
Lebron since 2008 has been better than Malone ever was (arguably before then) but his career has not come close to matching Malone's.

[L.Kizzle]

Elgin Baylor has 8 Finals appearances. I believe he lost three game 7's by 1 point, 1 freakin' point.

[pauk]

Elgin Baylor has 8 Finals appearances. I believe he lost three game 7's by 1 point, 1 freakin' point.

wow are u serious! :eek: :eek: :eek:
so basically elgin was very close to have 3 rings and maybe more and that would no doubt made him one of top 5 best ever

[SinJackal]

Malone and Stockton.

[magnax1]

Elgin Baylor is the best I can think of off the top of my head.

[L.Kizzle]

wow are u serious! :eek: :eek: :eek:
so basically elgin was very close to have 3 rings and maybe more and that would no doubt made him one of top 5 best ever
Took the Lakers to the Finals his rookie season. Most underrated player ever.

[Round Mound]

Ofcourse Barkley one of 2 of the Top 10 Players in EFF, PER and +/-

Pure raw proof of Barkley being the GOAT Player Not to Win A Ring

[shaq's--lakers]

Ofcourse Barkley one of 2 of the Top 10 Players in EFF, PER and +/-

Pure raw proof of Barkley being the GOAT Player Not to Win A Ring

Barkley should not be in the conversation. he was the 90's version of Kevin Love

He never played D and he was voted as the worst defender in the NBA by the players .

Bad work ethic and was never a true leader( KJ was the true leader of the suns in 93)

[che guevara]

Barkley should not be in the conversation. he was the 90's version of Kevin Love

He never played D and he was voted as the worst defender in the NBA by the players .

Bad work ethic and was never a true leader( KJ was the true leader of the suns in 93)
Must be why he won the MVP in '93 while on a 62 win team that got to the Finals (and with a break here or there could have won), won 56 then 59 games the next two years, carried a crappy Philly team to the playoffs 3 years in a row... he's a much better player than Love. His conditioning is way overblown too, he was out of shape for his first few years in the league but from '89-'97 he kept himself in shape. KJ was most definitely NOT the leader either, Barkley was known to be vocal and charismatic, while KJ missed half the games that year, didn't play well when he was playing and choked memorably in the first 2 games of the Finals.

[t-rex]

My 5

[ShaqAttack3234]

Barkley should not be in the conversation. he was the 90's version of Kevin Love

He never played D and he was voted as the worst defender in the NBA by the players .

Bad work ethic and was never a true leader( KJ was the true leader of the suns in 93)

Barkley wasn't the 90's version of Love. You could see Chuck dominate games on a regular basis, his stats were not empty and he made an impact in the win column. You had to double Chuck.

KJ was the leader of the '93 Suns? The Suns were 61-15 with Barkley and 1-5 without him. The Suns were 25-6 with Barkley and without KJ.

As far as peak? I think Lebron's peak so far has been better than Malone or Barkley's, but for careers? Probably Malone.

[The Iron Fist]

Lebron has two MVP's
Led a team with no talent to the Finals
Worst performance of a team, not Lebron, because Spurs just defended LEbron and the rest of his team sucked just like all his first 7 years

Karl Malone has two MVPs as well.

Karl Malone led his teams to the finals as well, except he didn't have the luxury of playing two .500 teams on the way to the conference finals like Lebron did. Nets and Wizards were both .500 teams.

game 1 vs SA LeBron James 44mp 4fgm 16fga .250
game 2 vs SA LeBron James 38mp 9fgm 21fga .429
game 3 vs SA LeBron James 41mp 9fgm 23fga .391
game 4 vs SA LeBron James 46mp 10fgm 30fga .333


Lebron had a terrible showing in his finals appearance and never led his team to one single victory.

You can't say that about Malone.

[The Iron Fist]

I seen both of those guys play and Lebron is a better player.

Malone played with another HOFer in his prime next to him.

Lebron had.... Mo Williams.


And Shaq, a former MVP, and Ben Wallace, a multiple winner of the DPOY award.

[az00m]

Lebron will never win a championship. He is too ball dominate with no post game. He needs to let wade or someone else handle the ball and learn some off the ball game.

He needs to A: Post up more
b: use screens more to get open shots

That team would work so much better if they had a SG like Monta, manu, or roy instead of wade.

[Jordan23GOAT]

Let's face it. Lebron is going to eventually get one with the Heat. As much as I like to hate them. So i'm not countin Lebron. I pick Captain Canada.

[RJChPD]

Lebron will never win a championship. He is too ball dominate with no post game. He needs to let wade or someone else handle the ball and learn some off the ball game.

He needs to A: Post up more
b: use screens more to get open shots

That team would work so much better if they had a SG like Monta, manu, or roy instead of wade.


It's impossible for him to be ball dominate.

[az00m]

It's impossible for him to be ball dominate.
Dominant. Auto correct ftw

[ShaqAttack3234]

Karl Malone has two MVPs as well.

Karl Malone led his teams to the finals as well, except he didn't have the luxury of playing two .500 teams on the way to the conference finals like Lebron did. Nets and Wizards were both .500 teams.

game 1 vs SA LeBron James 44mp 4fgm 16fga .250
game 2 vs SA LeBron James 38mp 9fgm 21fga .429
game 3 vs SA LeBron James 41mp 9fgm 23fga .391
game 4 vs SA LeBron James 46mp 10fgm 30fga .333


Lebron had a terrible showing in his finals appearance and never led his team to one single victory.

You can't say that about Malone.

And Lebron has gotten much better since 2007. Malone never played as well in the playoffs as Lebron did in 2009. 2009 Lebron>1997 Malone.


And Shaq, a former MVP, and Ben Wallace, a multiple
winner of the DPOY award.

Both were way past their prime.

[jlauber]

Elgin Baylor has 8 Finals appearances. I believe he lost three game 7's by 1 point, 1 freakin' point.

Close. Baylor lost four game seven's in the Finals, and three of them were by 3 pts (in OT), 2 pts, and 2 pts.

He also averaged 40.6 ppg in the '62 Finals. And in his '61 season, he averaged 34.8 ppg and 19.8 rpg. He had four post-seasons of 30+ ppg and in each he averaged between 13.6 to 17.7 rpg.


Nate Thurmond deserves to be mentioned in this OP, as well.

[MavsPoke]

Wilt Chamberlain

Another Poke fan!!!

I gotta go with Stockton and Malone.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Elgin Baylor

[kaiiu]

Lebron has two MVP's
Led a team with no talent to the Finals
Worst performance of a team, not Lebron, because Spurs just defended LEbron and the rest of his team sucked just like all his first 7 years
:oldlol: :roll: :roll: are you kiddin me. Bruce Bowen aint even defend Lebron outside of 10 feet:roll: Lebron was airballin free throws but lets blame it on the team:rolleyes:

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

:oldlol: :roll: :roll: are you kiddin me. Bruce Bowen aint even defend Lebron outside of 10 feet:roll: Lebron was airballin free throws but lets blame it on the team:rolleyes:

that's always the go to excuse for him

[Lebron23]

Shaq and Jordan were both 28 yrs.old when they won their first NBA Finals MVP.

I am sure LeBron is going to follow in their footsteps. Celtics and Lakers are getting older. The Heat just needs to sign or trade for a center in the off season.

[kaiiu]

that's always the go to excuse for him
it still is wit wade and bosh:oldlol:

[The Iron Fist]

And Lebron has gotten much better since 2007. Malone never played as well in the playoffs as Lebron did in 2009. 2009 Lebron>1997 Malone.



Both were way past their prime.


A 1997 Malone is already past his prime. I would expect a 7 year veteran in his prime to be at least as good as someone who is in their 12th season.

Not really sure what your point is since they each play a different role for their team. Malone was battling other power forwards and big men, even though hes 6 9. Lebron is guarding the wings at 6 8.

So again, what really makes Lebron better than Karl Malone who also has 2 MVPs?

Nothing really.

Now, you can cry all you want about Shaq and Ben being past their prime,

but those were cats that Lebron wanted.

[knightfall88]

I won't put Lebron up there because he has never beaten a good team in the playoffs/ - and that says a lot. And some might even argue that Detroit was a good team, but still that is just one team which is really pathetic.

[ShaqAttack3234]

A 1997 Malone is already past his prime. I would expect a 7 year veteran in his prime to be at least as good as someone who is in their 12th season.

Malone played his best basketball in 1997, he definitely wasn't past his prime, he was at his peak.


Not really sure what your point is since they each play a different role for their team. Malone was battling other power forwards and big men, even though hes 6 9. Lebron is guarding the wings at 6 8.

My point is that Lebron impacts a game more than Malone ever did, so he is better than Malone ever was at any point in his career.


So again, what really makes Lebron better than Karl Malone who also has 2 MVPs?

Nothing really.

Malone's career is obviously better, but I'm talking about peak vs peak, Lebron is better.


Now, you can cry all you want about Shaq and Ben being past their prime,

but those were cats that Lebron wanted.

:facepalm Does that somehow make 2008/2009 Big Ben and 2010 Shaq players so good you should be expected to win with?

[bdreason]

Barkley or Malone. Ewing was a beast as well.

[The Iron Fist]

Malone played his best basketball in 1997, he definitely wasn't past his prime, he was at his peak.



My point is that Lebron impacts a game more than Malone ever did, so he is better than Malone ever was at any point in his career.



Malone's career is obviously better, but I'm talking about peak vs peak, Lebron is better.



:facepalm Does that somehow make 2008/2009 Big Ben and 2010 Shaq players so good you should be expected to win with?


Lebron should impact the game more, he holds the ball the majority of the time. He has no concept of how to run a team. Yea, he can assist, but that doesn't mean he knows how to run a team. He is absolute shit without the ball in his hands and has no clue as to what to do. He doesn't set screens, nor does he use them. Do we have to get into the fact about the lack of a post up game?

He should impact the game more since he holds the ball so much.

But that doesn't make him better than Malone.

Ben and Shaq were good enough for Lebron to want, then when the experiment failed, its easy to blame it on their age.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Lebron should impact the game more, he holds the ball the majority of the time. He has no concept of how to run a team. Yea, he can assist, but that doesn't mean he knows how to run a team. He is absolute shit without the ball in his hands and has no clue as to what to do. He doesn't set screens, nor does he use them. Do we have to get into the fact about the lack of a post up game?

He should impact the game more since he holds the ball so much.

He's not a great off the ball player and yeah, his post game sucks, but he's still an extremely efficient 28-30 ppg, IMO the second best passing forward ever and since 2009, a very good perimeter defender. He has weaknesses, but he ends up excelling as a scorer, passer and defender.


But that doesn't make him better than Malone.

I meant he can impact the game more in a positive way, which does make him better than Malone.

And for the record, I really liked Malone's game. Simple, but very effective offensive game, solid defender and an excellent passer, but he wasn't the dominant force that Lebron has been since '08 or '09.


Ben and Shaq were good enough for Lebron to want, then when the experiment failed, its easy to blame it on their age.

I really don't understand the point you're trying to make. Neither were all-star caliber players, regardless of Lebron wanting them on his team. That's like saying Kobe wanted Fisher on his team so he should be expected to win with him. You don't hold it against a player for not winning with a role player or 2. If he doesn't win a title with Wade and Bosh, then that'll be different.

[The Iron Fist]

He's not a great off the ball player and yeah, his post game sucks, but he's still an extremely efficient 28-30 ppg, IMO the second best passing forward ever and since 2009, a very good perimeter defender. He has weaknesses, but he ends up excelling as a scorer, passer and defender.



I meant he can impact the game more in a positive way, which does make him better than Malone.

And for the record, I really liked Malone's game. Simple, but very effective offensive game, solid defender and an excellent passer, but he wasn't the dominant force that Lebron has been since '08 or '09.



I really don't understand the point you're trying to make. Neither were all-star caliber players, regardless of Lebron wanting them on his team. That's like saying Kobe wanted Fisher on his team so he should be expected to win with him. You don't hold it against a player for not winning with a role player or 2. If he doesn't win a title with Wade and Bosh, then that'll be different.


Yes, you do hold it against them as its the team they built.

And Malone impacted the game in such a positive way,

that his teams actually won finals games, against some of the best teams ever, the Jordan led Bulls. Don't give me that shit about Malone not having a positive impact. His teams actually did something on the grand stage. For Lebron having such a great impact, how did they fail to win a single game?

And again, Lebron being this "dominant force", is attributed to him being a prima dona who wants to be looked at as "The Chosen One". Malone didn't have that attitude. He bought into the concept of whats best for the team.

[Javat_90]

Karl Malone, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Charles Barkley or Dirk Nowitzki are some of them I can think about right now.

[G.O.A.T]

All-time: Baylor, Barkley, Malone, Stockton, Ewing, Gervin, Iverson

Active: Kidd, Nash, LeBron, Dirk

[ShaqAttack3234]

Yes, you do hold it against them as its the team they built.

And Malone impacted the game in such a positive way,

that his teams actually won finals games, against some of the best teams ever, the Jordan led Bulls. Don't give me that shit about Malone not having a positive impact. His teams actually did something on the grand stage. For Lebron having such a great impact, how did they fail to win a single game?

And again, Lebron being this "dominant force", is attributed to him being a prima dona who wants to be looked at as "The Chosen One". Malone didn't have that attitude. He bought into the concept of whats best for the team.

When did I say Malone didn't have a positive impact? I said Lebron had a bigger impact and when you seemed to interpret that differently I clarified by saying he had more of a positive impact.

As far as Lebron not winning, what else could he have done in 2009? 39/8/8, 49 FG% in the conference finals and a game-winner in game 2. However, Dwight killed their frontline with averages of 26/13/3 on 65% shooting, Rashard was a match up nightmare ofr Cleveland's power forwards like Varejao and he hit a game-winner in game 1 and the shot to send the game to OT in game 4 because of this. Not to mention that his second option shot 37%.

I guess it's Lebron's fault that Orlando's center and power forward dominated the series and that Mo couldn't make a shot.

[Bird]

All-time: Baylor, Barkley, Malone, Stockton, Ewing, Gervin, Iverson

Active: Kidd, Nash, LeBron, Dirk

I agree with both. I was going to break my post into retired/HOF and current players.

I would also add Dominique to the HOF side. I wish I could have been born 5 years earlier, so I could have truly seen him at his apex.

[alenleomessi]

Blak... Lebron James, Karl Malone and Sir Charles

[alenleomessi]

Shaq and Jordan were both 28 yrs.old when they won their first NBA Finals MVP.

I am sure LeBron is going to follow in their footsteps. Celtics and Lakers are getting older. The Heat just needs to sign or trade for a center in the off season.
He will win 2 by the time he is 28, and then he can come to the Clippers if he wants more :cheers:

[Nilocon165]

Elgin Baylor