Playoff Analysis: Who is the King of the Playoffs? Kobe | Lebron | Wade?

[Hulk Hogan]

King of the Post-Season

With something close to 20 games left in the regular season and the playoffs looming ahead. Many assumptions have been made about potential match-ups that some of the elite teams will encounter. Within elite teams are elite players, so today I thought I should look over their playoff performance.

Which player has the most success against elite teams and which players have the most against elite defensive teams? Which player lives off of hype and which player actually dominates? Well let's find out. Kobe, Lebron and Wade being the subject of this discussion. Let's begin by looking at their statistics against teams with 50 plus wins in the regular season.

This statistics is the playoffs data from 05-10 of their performance versus 50-win teams (its worth noting that Lebron has only beaten one 50 win team his entire career.)

From 05'-10' against 50-win teams:
Kobe - 30.0 ppg, 46.7% FG, 57.0% TS, 5.7 rpg, 5.4 apg
Wade - 30.0 ppg, 51.3% FG, 59.9% TS, 5.8 rpg, 5.0 apg
Bron - 28.0 ppg, 42.6% FG, 52.4% TS, 8.2 rpg, 7.3 apg

We see from factual concrete evidence that Kobe & Wade excel while LBJ doesn't perform so well. (Looks like the saying that Lebron regresses in the playoffs isn't that far-fetched). With the post-season creeping up, it is crucial for the heat if they want to win the championship for Wade to step up and lead the team. We can look at this using several perspertive, for example using the defensive rating.

Against Teams with <104 Drtg:

Kobe (30): 28.5/5.8/4.6 with 2.0/0.7 s/b 3.1 tov 53.8% TS, 102.2 avg Opponent Drtg
Wade (32): 27.3/5.3/6.4 1.9/1.2 s/b 4.1 tov on 57.1% TS, 102.9 avg opponent Drtg
Lebron (30): 28.4/8.0/7.2 with 1.6/1.0 s/b 4.8 tov 49.9% ts, 101.6 avg opponnent drtg

One of things everyone should take note is the turnovers. Kobe turns the ball over less than the other subjects(wade & lebron). Wade's percentage doesn't take much of a hit while Lebron's does. Mainly because he is a prolific slasher(and his alliance with those wearing black and white uniforms.)

By SRS - Elite Playoff Numbers

Against teams with + 5 SRS:
Kobe: (38) 30.2/5.5/5.6 with 1.4/0.4 s/b 3.8 tov 57.8% TS
Wade: (12) 29/6.5/4.7 with 2.3/1.3 s/b 4.2 tov 58.3% TS
Lebron: (24) 30.0/7.6/7.1 with 1.6/1 s/b 4.4 tov 50.6% TS

Against teams with + 6 SRS:
Kobe (20) : 34/6.3/6.8 with 1.7/.6 slb 4.3 tov 55.5% TS
Lebron: (24) 30.0/7.6/7.1 with 1.6/1 s/b 4.4 tov 50.6% TS
Wade (6): 26.7/5.2/5.5 with 1.8/1.5 s/b 4.7 tov, 68.7% TS

So, yes it is safe to say that Kobe is the best playoff performer from 05 going through 10. Wade also performs extremely well. These stats kinda preps us up for this upcoming post-season because I guarantee you that we will see the same results. But like I previously stated, these are factual concrete evidence showing Kobe is the king of the post season.

Discuss. :pimp:

[KBryant24]

pretty easy for me....
kobe=5 rings
duncan= 4rings
Shaq= 4 rings
....
....
...
...
..
wade=2 rings
vujacic=2 rings
...
...
...
...

....
....

....

...

..
....
lebron= 0 rings

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Hulk Hogan]

wade=2 rings

By the way, wade only has one ring.
But playing by the rules, I had to dig up statistics so there is no room for doubt no matter who came up on top.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Wow Great Thread Hulk Hogan:applause:

[Hulk Hogan]

Wow Great Thread Hulk Hogan:applause:

Thanks. Glad that you liked it. :cheers:

[KBryant24]

By the way, wade only has one ring.
But playing by the rules, I had to dig up statistics so there is no room for doubt no matter who came up on top.
oh wow my bad...that is actually kinda embarrassing....i guess i just got caught up in the punchline of "lebron=0" lol

good read though :applause:

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Thanks. Glad that you liked it. :cheers:

But really Lebron stats would be much different if he played in the Western Conference. The Teams Lebron lost to which were 50+ win team were all defensive minded.

I believe the Team Bron lost too were Detroit, Boston and Orlando? Am I correct.

Kobe himself didn't put up amazing stats against Both the Celtics and Pistons during those years in the regular season.

[bl2k8]

player comparison board on realgm Ftw :lol:

[G-Funk]

hulk for the win!

[Dwade305]

pretty easy for me....

wade=2 rings

:lol

Giving Wade that 04-05 Championship in his sophmore season that the heat would have won if Rasheed didnt injure him right?:applause:

[asdf1990]

50 win suns and jazz team that only have 25 letters in their alphabet.

[redsoxballer]

1. Kobe
2. Wade
3. Lebron

Come playoff time LBJs crab dribble and flail arms routine doesnt work against legit teams. Its been proven year after year.

[Bandito]

:lol

Giving Wade that 04-05 Championship in his sophmore season that the heat would have won if Rasheed didnt injure him right?:applause:
Because they could beat the Spurs right?

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

player comparison board on realgm Ftw :lol:
:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

jUST SEEN IT:oldlol:

[redsoxballer]

player comparison board on realgm Ftw :lol:

yo does anyone know a mod at realgm? I used to be itsmillertime. they perma-banned my IP address and i cant view the forums anymore. all i did was post a story about beastality. please get me unbanned from at least reading the damn forums

[catch24]

:oldlol: at "SRS"

Simple Rating System; my colleague Doug Drinen of Pro-Football-Reference.com has written a great explanation of this method.

Wow dude, your analysis is clearly one hundred percent spot on!

[az00m]

yo does anyone know a mod at realgm? I used to be itsmillertime. they perma-banned my IP address and i cant view the forums anymore. all i did was post a story about beastality. please get me unbanned from at least reading the damn forums

Uhh just reset your ip or call your isp to do it.

[Bodhi]

I wonder if ESPN will ever write an article about the LeBron playoff performance myth.

[ashbelly]

yo does anyone know a mod at realgm? I used to be itsmillertime. they perma-banned my IP address and i cant view the forums anymore. all i did was post a story about beastality. please get me unbanned from at least reading the damn forums

and you think thats cool or something ?? :roll:

[Hulk Hogan]

But really Lebron stats would be much different if he played in the Western Conference. The Teams Lebron lost to which were 50+ win team were all defensive minded.

I believe the Team Bron lost too were Detroit, Boston and Orlando? Am I correct.

Kobe himself didn't put up amazing stats against Both the Celtics and Pistons during those years in the regular season.

This is why many different statistics were used to come to the conclusion.
Did you look at the defensive rating stats and the SRS, they all show us that Lebron still regress in the post season while Wade and Kobe excel.

[olddangerfield]

But really Lebron stats would be much different if he played in the Western Conference. The Teams Lebron lost to which were 50+ win team were all defensive minded.

I believe the Team Bron lost too were Detroit, Boston and Orlando? Am I correct.

Kobe himself didn't put up amazing stats against Both the Celtics and Pistons during those years in the regular season.

Yea except he iced Boston and Orlando in the finals :lol.

[redsoxballer]

Uhh just reset your ip or call your isp to do it.
i dont want to do all that ****ing work. all i did was post a humorous story and i get perma IP banned from reading the forum. why couldnt they just ban me from making accounts? ****ing racists

[Hulk Hogan]

:oldlol: at "SRS"

Simple Rating System; my colleague Doug Drinen of Pro-Football-Reference.com has written a great explanation of this method.

Wow dude, your analysis is clearly one hundred percent spot on!

Actually I'm not the one who suggested using that statistic.
It was suggested by the guy who wrote the famous blog post outlining Kobe's playoff misses.

He wasn't expecting Kobe would come up on top though.

Anyway here is an explanation of it: http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=39

It is pretty dead on accurate.

[Hulk Hogan]

I wonder if ESPN will ever write an article about the LeBron playoff performance myth.

Because it doesn't align with the agenda they are trying to accomplish.
I bet some of them at one point tried but when they saw the results, they feared greatly and destroyed it.

[catch24]

Actually I'm not the one who suggested using that statistic.
It was suggested by the guy who wrote the famous blog post outlining Kobe's playoff misses.

He wasn't expecting Kobe would come up on top though.

Anyway here is an explanation of it: http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=39

It is pretty dead on accurate.

I like how you clowns disregard using advanced stats like PER, Per40, etc, because they're made by "fat and white bald men" yet have the gull to post this crap like its supposed to mean anything. I've already read the explanation and fully understand how the statistic works - it's dumb, flawed, and made by a guy who follows the NFL :oldlol:.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

and you think thats cool or something ?? :roll:
What the heck is that? Rofl lmao

[Hulk Hogan]

I like how you clowns disregard using advanced stats like PER, Per40, etc, because they're made by "fat and white bald men" yet have the gull to post this crap like its supposed to mean anything. I've already read the explanation and fully understand how the statistic works - it's dumb, flawed, and made by a guy who follows the NFL :oldlol:.

How is it flawed when it is accurate? Do you mind elaborating on its faults? You can't just make an assertion and expect people to take it on without factual concrete evidence proving it to be true.

Again, not only SRS was used but two other statistics pointing to the same conclusion. I don't even know why you mad, your boy Wade is doing good. :confusedshrug:

Lastly, it wasn't a Kobe fan that suggested using that statistics but a known kobe hater. Again he did not expect Kobe to come up on top and just like you he was very upset with the outcome.

[Indian guy]

Kobe and LeBron's playoff numbers against Top 5 defensive teams from 05-06 onwards.

KB8(30 games): 28.5/5.8/4.6/45%
LBJ(30 games): 28.4/7.9/7.0/42%

^ The only numbers that matter.

[Poochymama]

Well, I read the thread title/saw who was posting it and instantly knew what the conclusion was going to be(Kobe's the best). I wasn't wrong, but I must say for once you actually put up a somewhat fair and logical argument. Good Job:cheers:

[Indian guy]

Well, I read the thread title/saw who was posting it and instantly knew what the conclusion was going to be(Kobe's the best). I wasn't wrong, but I must say for once you actually put up a somewhat fair and logical argument. Good Job:cheers:

Nearly 60% of Kobe's playoff series' the last 5 years have come against Phx/Utah/Denver. Every freaking perimeter star dreams about facing those teams while in bed every night. As the numbers I posted above clearly indicate, against top-level defensive teams, LeBron and Kobe's production is close to a wash. And this is a 21-25 year old LeBron vs. 27-31 year old Kobe.

[catch24]

LOL at giving teams 3 extra points for having HC advantage? :wtf:


Nearly 60% of Kobe's playoff series' the last 5 years have come against Phx/Utah/Denver. Every freaking perimeter star dreams about facing those teams while in bed every night. As the numbers I posted above clearly indicate, against top-level defensive teams, LeBron and Kobe's production is close to a wash. And this is a 21-25 year old LeBron vs. 27-31 year old Kobe.

Apparently Hulk didn't think of this when posting these logically flawed statistics.

[Hulk Hogan]

Nearly 60% of Kobe's playoff series' the last 5 years have come against Phx/Utah/Denver. Every freaking perimeter star dreams about facing those teams while in bed every night. As the numbers I posted above clearly indicate, against top-level defensive teams, LeBron and Kobe's production is close to a wash. And this is a 21-25 year old LeBron vs. 27-31 year old Kobe.

Is that your excuse. You do know the west is WAY tougher and better than the east by far. Most of the teams that make the playoffs in the east won't even sniff the playoffs in the west. They are that bad.

Lebron has had the luxury of beating up bad teams in the playoffs. But everytime he plays a good team, they lose. Kobe beaten 50 plus teams with consistency, The facts stats states that Lebron has only beaten one 50 plus win team, the rest he has lost to. The evidence does not lie on his side of the court. It doesn't.

Again its not a wash, looking at all the evidence (50 wins, Defensive rating, SRS). Kobe comes up on top easily as the best playoffs performer.

[Walduś]

Nearly 60% of Kobe's playoff series' the last 5 years have come against Phx/Utah/Denver. Every freaking perimeter star dreams about facing those teams while in bed every night. As the numbers I posted above clearly indicate, against top-level defensive teams, LeBron and Kobe's production is close to a wash. And this is a 21-25 year old LeBron vs. 27-31 year old Kobe.
7 of 13 lebron's series have been against weak 40 win teams like wizards, hawks, nets, bulls. lol

[Javat_90]

I think the best playoff performer out of these 3 players is clearly Dwayne Wade.

As a matter of fact, I cant remember one sub-par series from Wade in which he didnt perform to the expected level. He is always efficient and dominating at the same time. The only series I can remember he wasnt that "spectacular" (although he still put up good numbers) was in the 08-09 playoffs against the Atlanta Hawks.

But just take a look at the rest of the series he has played since he started to play the post-season in 2005:

- He had a pretty good playoff-run in the 04/05 (although he was still arguably the second option or 1b option behind Shaq), and the only thing that stopped Miami from reaching the Finals were the defensive powerhouse Pistons who in fact had to play 7 games to defeat them.

- He had a superb playoff-run in the 05/06 season (of course the haters or Kobe/Lebron stans will always blame the refs) dominating first Detroit in the Conference Finals and then putting up one of the best finals performances in the history of the league against Dallas.

- He had a not as impressive series (compared to previous ones) against the Hawks in 2009 but remember those Heat teams were the definition of "awful" and he still managed to take the series to 7 games.

- He had one of the most impressive series ive seen this decade against Boston last year, still playing for the same awful Miami Heat team but you cant blame Wade on that, just look at the numbers for gods sake, dominating with extremely high efficiency.



Now, I can remember some sub-par series from Kobe and Lebron in the last 5/6 years when compared to Wade.

Kobe had an average series against Houston in 2009, is true the whole Lakers team were extremely inconsistent and all, but so was Bryant. He also had a bad Finals performance last year against Boston (same team Dwayne Wade dominated through-out 5 games), who LA won because of a crucial Ron Artest performance in game 7 (awful and disgusting game from Bryant).

And if you want to go a bit further, he had one of the worst Finals performances ive seen from a superstar in the 2004 Finals against Detroit, much worse than he did against the Celtics last year.


What about Lebron? Yeah there is plenty of smack for him too. He had a disgusting performance in the 2007 Finals against the Spurs (alright he took a Cavs team to over-achieve...etc, but still), he should have played much better than he did.

And of course he choked epicly against Boston last year (again, same team Wade dominated) in one of the most disgusting "quiting events" in the history of the NBA. Those 2 series in which Lebron was awful were crucial for the history of the Cleveland Cavaliers franchise, but yet, the higher the expectation is the worse he performes it seems.


To end, I dont want to be catalogued as a Dwayne Wade homer. Im a Los Angeles Lakers fan but im tired of seeing people biased towards some players and so on..., I love Kobe, he is one of my favourites of all-time, but at the same time, I cant forget some of the disgusting Finals performances he had in 2004 and 2010, something I havent seen from Wade yet.

[Hulk Hogan]

LOL at giving teams 3 extra points for having HC advantage? :wtf:


Is that your response. You are yet again proving what we all know. If a statistic favors Kobe, find a way to downgrade it. If it doesn't, maximize it, squeeze a million dollars out of it.


Apparently Hulk didn't think of this when posting these logically flawed statistics.

I quote "7 of 13 lebron's series have been against weak 40 win teams like wizards, hawks, nets, bulls. lol"

There is huge evidence against Lebron. He is in a weaker conference, he has only won one playoffs game over a 50+ team. He is constantly beating up on bad teams. I guess you didn't think of this when quoting Indian Guy. But since what he said seemed to favor your views, you went along with it.

But the evidence clearly tells us another story.

[jbryan1984]

Of active players, its def Kobe and 100% def not LeBron.

[catch24]

Is that your response. You are yet again proving what we all know. If a statistic favors Kobe, find a way to downgrade it. If it doesn't, maximize it, squeeze a million dollars out of it.

Huh? lol, I don't give a damn whether or not statistics favor Kobe (hell, I think Kobe's 2005-2006 season was just as good if not better than Wade's 2008-2009 season).

Do my a favor and tell me where the 3 extra points come from (the team that has home court).


I quote "7 of 13 lebron's series have been against weak 40 win teams like wizards, hawks, nets, bulls. lol"

Irrelevant. Some of those 40 win teams play better defense than the 50 win teams Kobe has gone up against, and more importantly, are taylor made for the postseason.


There is huge evidence against Lebron. He is in a weaker conference, he has only won one playoffs game over a 50+ team. He is constantly beating up on bad teams. I guess you didn't think of this when quoting Indian Guy. But since what he said seemed to favor your views, you went along with it.

And again, most of those teams were better playoff defenses. I'd take my chances playing a team like the Suns, Jazz vs. teams like the Bulls/Celtics who were OK offensively and GREAT defensively.

[Indian guy]

You do know the west is WAY tougher and better than the east by far.

Which is irrelevant, because we're ONLY looking at their production against 50+ win teams. So LeBron's monster series' against average playoff opponents don't even count here. The only games that do count are the ones against Detroit/Boston/SA/Orlando - every single one of them was a Top 5 defensive team when LeBron faced them in the playoffs. The guy's never had the luxury of going up against 50+ win teams who the play the cotton candy defense of Phx/Utah/Denver. His numbers would look very different then.

Bottom line: When LeBron & Kobe have faced similar defensive teams, their production has pretty much been a toss-up.

[Javat_90]

Which is irrelevant, because we're ONLY looking at their production against 50+ win teams. So LeBron's monster series' against average playoff opponents don't even count here. The only games that do count are the ones against Detroit/Boston/SA/Orlando - every single one of them was a Top 5 defensive team when LeBron faced them in the playoffs. The guy's never had the luxury of going up against the cotton candy defense of Phx/Utah/Denver 60% of the time. His numbers would look very different then.

Bottom line: When LeBron & Kobe have faced similar defensive teams, their production has pretty much been a toss-up.

What about Detroit and Atlanta in 2009? Or Chicago in 2010?

Come on.

[Indian guy]

What about Detroit and Atlanta in 2009? Or Chicago in 2010?

Come on.

Huh? What about them?

[knightfall88]

We all watch the playoffs. We know that Lebron has never beaten a half decent team.

The discussion should be between Wade and Kobe and that isn't exactly fair considering how many games Kobe has played.

[Javat_90]

Huh? What about them?

You said Lebron didnt have the luxury of facing candy defense like Phoenix or Denver.

[Hulk Hogan]

Huh? lol, I don't give a damn whether or not statistics favor Kobe (hell, I think Kobe's 2005-2006 season was just as good if not better than Wade's 2008-2009 season).


That has nothing to do with this topic. Plus only a dumbass would think wade's 08/09 was better than kobe's 05/06.



Irrelevant. Some of those 40 win teams play better defense than the 50 win teams Kobe has gone up against, and more importantly, are taylor made for the postseason.

And again, most of those teams were better playoff defenses. I'd take my chances playing a team like the Suns, Jazz vs. teams like the Bulls/Celtics who were OK offensively and GREAT defensively.


FACTUAL EVIDENCE - NOT OPINIONS:

1. Kobe and Lebron has played an equally amount of 30 games against teams with less than 104 Defensive rating. FACT!

(Therefore the notion that Kobe gets to face teams with no defense is false)

2. Lebron beats up bad teams in a weaker conference, while Kobe beats good teams in a stronger conference. FACT!

3. Defensive rating, Top 5 defensive team, Simple Rating S, 50 Plus Win Teams. Every way you cut it, Kobe comes out on top. FACT!

Notable mentions: LOL Kobe has played boston as much as Lebron has, and WON by the way. FACT!

[Indian guy]

You said Lebron didnt have the luxury of facing candy defense like Phoenix or Denver.

I meant he didn't have the luxury of facing 50+ win teams that were average defensively like Phx/Utah/Denver. LeBron's played plenty of mediocre opponents in the playoffs, yes, but if you've read the original post, you'll see that Hogan's only counting games against good teams(50+ wins & good SRS).

[Eat Like A Bosh]

And advanced stats keep degrading Kobe! :oldlol:

If you look at it in a different perspective, Kobe excels in so many different ways, and he comes through in the biggest moments more often than not. He wins games when it matters the most.

That's why he is a winner.

[Hulk Hogan]

I meant he didn't have the luxury of facing 50+ win teams that were average defensively like Phx/Utah/Denver. LeBron's played plenty of mediocre opponents in the playoffs, yes, but if you've read the original post, you'll see that Hogan's only counting games against good teams(50+ wins & good SRS).

No. Where did you come up with that Idea?
I'm counting ALL of the games.
I used three different categories.

50 win teams (all of the games vs teams with 50 plus wins.)
Defensive rating. (all of the games vs teams less than 104 defensive rating.)
Simple Rating system. (all of the games vs teams srs +5 and +6)

Edit: 50 wins is not a criteria for each category, only one!!!

[Indian guy]

I'm counting ALL of the games.

You're not. Otherwise LeBron's numbers would be 29/8/7/46%. All 3 metrics you have used have narrowed the list of opponents down to strong teams only. LeBron's series' against Washington/NJ/Atlanta/Chicago/Detroit('09) aren't being counted here, because they didn't win 50 games, didn't have a sub-104 Drtg and didn't have a good enough SRS.


Defensive rating. (all of the games vs teams less than 104 defensive rating.)

What's up with the arbitrary 104? How about we look at their production against Top 5 defensive teams only - where their numbers are close to a wash.


Simple Rating system. (all of the games vs teams srs +5 and +6)

In other words, we've again excluded teams with sub-50 wins. This is simply not a fair comparison because in LeBron's case, all 50+ win teams he's faced to date have been defensive juggernauts. That hasn't been the case at all with Kobe though.

[Hulk Hogan]

You're not. Otherwise LeBron's numbers would be 29/8/7/46%. All 3 metrics you have used have narrowed the list of opponents down to strong teams only. LeBron's series' against Washington/NJ/Atlanta/Chicago/Detroit('09) aren't being counted here, because they didn't win 50 games, didn't have a sub-104 Drtg and didn't have a good enough SRS.



What's up with the arbitrary 104? How about we look at their production against Top 5 defensive teams only - where their numbers are close to a wash.



In other words, we've again excluded teams with sub-50 wins. This is simply not a fair comparison because in LeBron's case, all 50+ win teams he's faced to date have been defensive juggernauts. That hasn't been the case at all with Kobe though.

You are not listening. I am counting everything and that includes 40 WIN TEAMS!!

Defensive rating under 104 (this includes 40+ winning teams, basically ANY AMOUNT)
SYS (Same thing)



What's up with the arbitrary 104? How about we look at their production against Top 5 defensive teams only - where their numbers are close to a wash.


Look at the stats you posted and compare it with my defensive rating statistic and you will see a correlation.


Kobe and LeBron's playoff numbers against Top 5 defensive teams from 05-06 onwards.

KB8(30 games): 28.5/5.8/4.6/45%
LBJ(30 games): 28.4/7.9/7.0/42%




Against Teams with <104 Drtg:

Kobe (30): 28.5/5.8/4.6 with 2.0/0.7 s/b 3.1 tov 53.8% TS, 102.2 avg Opponent Drtg
Wade (32): 27.3/5.3/6.4 1.9/1.2 s/b 4.1 tov on 57.1% TS, 102.9 avg opponent Drtg
Lebron (30): 28.4/8.0/7.2 with 1.6/1.0 s/b 4.8 tov 49.9% ts, 101.6 avg opponnent drtg

Don't you see that its the same statistics?

[Disaprine]

Kobe and LeBron's playoff numbers against Top 5 defensive teams from 05-06 onwards.

KB8(30 games): 28.5/5.8/4.6/45%
LBJ(30 games): 28.4/7.9/7.0/42%

^ The only numbers that matter
pretty much this. lol srs is the new per for me from now on. :lol

[amfirst]

But really Lebron stats would be much different if he played in the Western Conference. The Teams Lebron lost to which were 50+ win team were all defensive minded.

I believe the Team Bron lost too were Detroit, Boston and Orlando? Am I correct.

Kobe himself didn't put up amazing stats against Both the Celtics and Pistons during those years in the regular season.

Yea, it would be much different. LeBron playing in the western conference will never sniff the finals. The Spurs will sweep him in the first round every year.

[catch24]

That has nothing to do with this topic. Plus only a dumbass would think wade's 08/09 was better than kobe's 05/06.

What the hell are you talking about? :oldlol:

The 3 extra points is PART of SRS's definition. Since you're so keen on the stat, explain to us where the 3 extra points for teams with HC advantage come from? If we assume a 3-point home-court advantage, then the system would have favored the Spurs by 2.02 points

????

And no, only a true dyckrider would contend that Kobe's season is 'by far better'.





1. Kobe and Lebron has played an equally amount of 30 games against teams with less than 104 Defensive rating. FACT!

And? What's with the arbitrary number of 104? Against top 5 defnesive teams, as Indian Guy posted, LeBron and Kobe are just about equal. Try again.


(Therefore the notion that Kobe gets to face teams with no defense is false)

No one ever said he ONLY got to face teams with no defenses. What we are saying; however, is that LeBron, on average, has faced tougher defensive squads in the post season. That's a fact.


Notable mentions: LOL Kobe has played boston as much as Lebron has, and WON by the way. FACT!

Yeah, no sh*t, but has he faced Boston during the semi finals??? Lets face it, if he does, we don't know whether or not he'd be eliminated.

[BallsOut]

Yeah, no sh*t, but has he faced Boston during the semi finals??? Lets face it, if he does, we don't know whether or not he'd be eliminated.

Nah but he has faced the tough defensive Spurs in the playoffs and won. Roughly the same team Lebron got swept 0-4 to in 2006-2007.

[Hulk Hogan]

And? What's with the arbitrary number of 104? Against top 5 defnesive teams, as Indian Guy posted, LeBron and Kobe are just about equal. Try again.



Kobe and LeBron's playoff numbers against Top 5 defensive teams from 05-06 onwards.

KB8(30 games): 28.5/5.8/4.6/45%
LBJ(30 games): 28.4/7.9/7.0/42%




Against Teams with <104 Drtg:

Kobe (30): 28.5/5.8/4.6 with 2.0/0.7 s/b 3.1 tov 53.8% TS, 102.2 avg Opponent Drtg
Wade (32): 27.3/5.3/6.4 1.9/1.2 s/b 4.1 tov on 57.1% TS, 102.9 avg opponent Drtg
Lebron (30): 28.4/8.0/7.2 with 1.6/1.0 s/b 4.8 tov 49.9% ts, 101.6 avg opponnent drtg

They produce the same results.


No one ever said he ONLY got to face teams with no defenses. What we are saying; however, is that LeBron, on average, has faced tougher defensive squads in the post season. That's a fact.

Again. I repeat, Kobe and Lebron has played an equal amount of games with teams with defensive rating less than 104. Look up to check it. Its identical with the statistics against the top 5 defensive team. Which proves my point that Kobe has faced the exact same defensive unit as Lebron but better teams.



Yeah, no sh*t, but has he faced Boston during the semi finals??? Lets face it, if he does, we don't know whether or not he'd be eliminated.

Dude get over it. Kobe beat the Celtics square and fair.

[catch24]

Nah but he has faced the tough defensive Spurs in the semi finals and won. Roughly the same team Lebron got swept 0-4 to in 2006-2007.

Yeah, but lets use some perspective. The Cavs second best scorer was Boobie Gibson, while the Lakers had Pau Gasol and an overall MUCH better team.

[catch24]

Again. I repeat, Kobe and Lebron has played an equal amount of games with teams with defensive rating less than 104. Look up to check it. Its identical with the statistics against the top 5 defensive team. Which proves my point that Kobe has faced the exact same defensive unit as Lebron but better teams.

Wrong yet again, retard. 104 is an arbitrary number. On average, since the 04-05 playoffs, LeBron has faced better defensive teams. DRTG backs this up, kiddo. Try again.


Dude get over it. Kobe beat the Celtics square and fair.

There's nothing to get over. I was rooting for the Lakers, lol. While Kobe got to go on each round, LeBron got stopped by the Celtics 2 of the last 3 seasons, during the semi Finals. The Lakers could have faced the same result - we really don't know, so the whole comparison is dumb.

[Hulk Hogan]

Yeah, but lets use some perspective. The Cavs second best scorer was Boobie Gibson, while the Lakers had Pau Gasol and an overall MUCH better team.

The cavs had the best record for two years straight but yet Lebron failed in the post-season. What excuse will he have for failing to win this season aswell?

Your boy wade? He always performs well in the playoffs, so will you blame him although he will have the best statistics among them? Or will Bosh be the scapegoat? Maybe it will be Spoelstra.

This is the story of Lebron's career.
He has no supporting cast. I don't expect it to end.
But what I do expect to end is the fact that Kobe doesn't get his dues for what he does in the post-season. He is according to concrete evidence, the best post-season performer.

[Hulk Hogan]

Wrong yet again, retard. 104 is an arbitrary number. On average, since the 04-05 playoffs, LeBron has faced better defensive teams. DRTG backs this up, kiddo. Try again.


Is this all you got?

Since 05/06 Kobe (102.2 avg Opponent Drtg), Lebron (101.6)
Practically the same (a .6 differential), plus 7 of his 13 opponents were bad 40 win teams.

[catch24]

Is this all you got?

Since 05/06 Kobe (102.2 avg Opponent Drtg), Lebron (101.6)
Practically the same (a .8 differential), plus 7 of his 13 opponents were bad 40 win teams.

LeBron wins.

You lose.

While you're at it, please post the proof.

[Hulk Hogan]

LeBron wins.

You lose.

Kobe and LeBron's playoff numbers against Top 5 defensive teams from 05-06 onwards.

KB8(30 games): 28.5/5.8/4.6/45%
LBJ(30 games): 28.4/7.9/7.0/42%

KOBE > LEBRON

Against Teams with <104 Drtg:

Kobe (30): 28.5/5.8/4.6 with 2.0/0.7 s/b 3.1 tov 53.8% TS, 102.2 avg Opponent Drtg
Wade (32): 27.3/5.3/6.4 1.9/1.2 s/b 4.1 tov on 57.1% TS, 102.9 avg opponent Drtg
Lebron (30): 28.4/8.0/7.2 with 1.6/1.0 s/b 4.8 tov 49.9% ts, 101.6 avg opponnent drtg

KOBE > LEBRON

From 05'-10' against 50-win teams:
Kobe - 30.0 ppg, 46.7% FG, 57.0% TS, 5.7 rpg, 5.4 apg
Wade - 30.0 ppg, 51.3% FG, 59.9% TS, 5.8 rpg, 5.0 apg
Bron - 28.0 ppg, 42.6% FG, 52.4% TS, 8.2 rpg, 7.3 apg


KOBE > LEBRON


By SRS - Elite Playoff Numbers

Against teams with + 5 SRS:
Kobe: (38) 30.2/5.5/5.6 with 1.4/0.4 s/b 3.8 tov 57.8% TS
Wade: (12) 29/6.5/4.7 with 2.3/1.3 s/b 4.2 tov 58.3% TS
Lebron: (24) 30.0/7.6/7.1 with 1.6/1 s/b 4.4 tov 50.6% TS

KOBE > LEBRON

Against teams with + 6 SRS:
Kobe (20) : 34/6.3/6.8 with 1.7/.6 slb 4.3 tov 55.5% TS
Lebron: (24) 30.0/7.6/7.1 with 1.6/1 s/b 4.4 tov 50.6% TS
Wade (6): 26.7/5.2/5.5 with 1.8/1.5 s/b 4.7 tov, 68.7% TS

KOBE > LEBRON


LOL I know I made you mad, but its for your own good.. :oldlol:
Now of a sure heart I know you hate kobe and for-sure not a Lakers fan. A guy who thinks bruce blitz is intelligent. Even the most Lebron and Jordan homers have called him out in his obsession.

[Big#50]

When I think playoffs, I think of Bird, Magic, Jordan, Hakeem, Duncan and Shaq.


Kobe
Lebron
Wade
Not really.

[catch24]

Kobe and LeBron's playoff numbers against Top 5 defensive teams from 05-06 onwards.

KB8(30 games): 28.5/5.8/4.6/45%
LBJ(30 games): 28.4/7.9/7.0/42%

KOBE > LEBRON

Against Teams with <104 Drtg:

Kobe (30): 28.5/5.8/4.6 with 2.0/0.7 s/b 3.1 tov 53.8% TS, 102.2 avg Opponent Drtg
Wade (32): 27.3/5.3/6.4 1.9/1.2 s/b 4.1 tov on 57.1% TS, 102.9 avg opponent Drtg
Lebron (30): 28.4/8.0/7.2 with 1.6/1.0 s/b 4.8 tov 49.9% ts, 101.6 avg opponnent drtg

KOBE > LEBRON

From 05'-10' against 50-win teams:
Kobe - 30.0 ppg, 46.7% FG, 57.0% TS, 5.7 rpg, 5.4 apg
Wade - 30.0 ppg, 51.3% FG, 59.9% TS, 5.8 rpg, 5.0 apg
Bron - 28.0 ppg, 42.6% FG, 52.4% TS, 8.2 rpg, 7.3 apg


KOBE > LEBRON


By SRS - Elite Playoff Numbers

Against teams with + 5 SRS:
Kobe: (38) 30.2/5.5/5.6 with 1.4/0.4 s/b 3.8 tov 57.8% TS
Wade: (12) 29/6.5/4.7 with 2.3/1.3 s/b 4.2 tov 58.3% TS
Lebron: (24) 30.0/7.6/7.1 with 1.6/1 s/b 4.4 tov 50.6% TS

KOBE > LEBRON

Against teams with + 6 SRS:
Kobe (20) : 34/6.3/6.8 with 1.7/.6 slb 4.3 tov 55.5% TS
Lebron: (24) 30.0/7.6/7.1 with 1.6/1 s/b 4.4 tov 50.6% TS
Wade (6): 26.7/5.2/5.5 with 1.8/1.5 s/b 4.7 tov, 68.7% TS

KOBE > LEBRON



LOL at the arbitrary numbers and faulty stats you post. I like how you ignored the question I asked. Where does the 3 come from for HC teams with SRS?

The facts are they're both about even against Elite defenses.

[Jacks3]

Kobe and LeBron's playoff numbers against Top 5 defensive teams from 05-06 onwards.

KB8(30 games): 28.5/5.8/4.6/45%
LBJ(30 games): 28.4/7.9/7.0/42%

KOBE > LEBRON

Against Teams with <104 Drtg:

Kobe (30): 28.5/5.8/4.6 with 2.0/0.7 s/b 3.1 tov 53.8% TS, 102.2 avg Opponent Drtg
Wade (32): 27.3/5.3/6.4 1.9/1.2 s/b 4.1 tov on 57.1% TS, 102.9 avg opponent Drtg
Lebron (30): 28.4/8.0/7.2 with 1.6/1.0 s/b 4.8 tov 49.9% ts, 101.6 avg opponnent drtg

KOBE > LEBRON

From 05'-10' against 50-win teams:
Kobe - 30.0 ppg, 46.7% FG, 57.0% TS, 5.7 rpg, 5.4 apg
Wade - 30.0 ppg, 51.3% FG, 59.9% TS, 5.8 rpg, 5.0 apg
Bron - 28.0 ppg, 42.6% FG, 52.4% TS, 8.2 rpg, 7.3 apg


KOBE > LEBRON


By SRS - Elite Playoff Numbers

Against teams with + 5 SRS:
Kobe: (38) 30.2/5.5/5.6 with 1.4/0.4 s/b 3.8 tov 57.8% TS
Wade: (12) 29/6.5/4.7 with 2.3/1.3 s/b 4.2 tov 58.3% TS
Lebron: (24) 30.0/7.6/7.1 with 1.6/1 s/b 4.4 tov 50.6% TS

KOBE > LEBRON

Against teams with + 6 SRS:
Kobe (20) : 34/6.3/6.8 with 1.7/.6 slb 4.3 tov 55.5% TS
Lebron: (24) 30.0/7.6/7.1 with 1.6/1 s/b 4.4 tov 50.6% TS
Wade (6): 26.7/5.2/5.5 with 1.8/1.5 s/b 4.7 tov, 68.7% TS

KOBE > LEBRON


LOL I know I made you mad, but its for your own good.. :oldlol:
Now of a sure heart I know you hate kobe and for-sure not a Lakers fan. A guy who thinks bruce blitz is intelligent. Even the most Lebron and Jordan homers have called him out in his obsession.
:applause:

Kobe is truly the best playoff performer from 05-10 and one of the best ever.

:applause:

[Javat_90]

:applause:

Kobe is truly the best playoff performer from 05-10 and one of the best ever.

:applause:


Nope.

Dwayne Wade is better.

[amfirst]

King of the Post-Season

With something close to 20 games left in the regular season and the playoffs looming ahead. Many assumptions have been made about potential match-ups that some of the elite teams will encounter. Within elite teams are elite players, so today I thought I should look over their playoff performance.

Which player has the most success against elite teams and which players have the most against elite defensive teams? Which player lives off of hype and which player actually dominates? Well let's find out. Kobe, Lebron and Wade being the subject of this discussion. Let's begin by looking at their statistics against teams with 50 plus wins in the regular season.

This statistics is the playoffs data from 05-10 of their performance versus 50-win teams (its worth noting that Lebron has only beaten one 50 win team his entire career.)

From 05'-10' against 50-win teams:
Kobe - 30.0 ppg, 46.7% FG, 57.0% TS, 5.7 rpg, 5.4 apg
Wade - 30.0 ppg, 51.3% FG, 59.9% TS, 5.8 rpg, 5.0 apg
Bron - 28.0 ppg, 42.6% FG, 52.4% TS, 8.2 rpg, 7.3 apg

We see from factual concrete evidence that Kobe & Wade excel while LBJ doesn't perform so well. (Looks like the saying that Lebron regresses in the playoffs isn't that far-fetched). With the post-season creeping up, it is crucial for the heat if they want to win the championship for Wade to step up and lead the team. We can look at this using several perspertive, for example using the defensive rating.

Against Teams with <104 Drtg:

Kobe (30): 28.5/5.8/4.6 with 2.0/0.7 s/b 3.1 tov 53.8% TS, 102.2 avg Opponent Drtg
Wade (32): 27.3/5.3/6.4 1.9/1.2 s/b 4.1 tov on 57.1% TS, 102.9 avg opponent Drtg
Lebron (30): 28.4/8.0/7.2 with 1.6/1.0 s/b 4.8 tov 49.9% ts, 101.6 avg opponnent drtg

One of things everyone should take note is the turnovers. Kobe turns the ball over less than the other subjects(wade & lebron). Wade's percentage doesn't take much of a hit while Lebron's does. Mainly because he is a prolific slasher(and his alliance with those wearing black and white uniforms.)

By SRS - Elite Playoff Numbers

Against teams with + 5 SRS:
Kobe: (38) 30.2/5.5/5.6 with 1.4/0.4 s/b 3.8 tov 57.8% TS
Wade: (12) 29/6.5/4.7 with 2.3/1.3 s/b 4.2 tov 58.3% TS
Lebron: (24) 30.0/7.6/7.1 with 1.6/1 s/b 4.4 tov 50.6% TS

Against teams with + 6 SRS:
Kobe (20) : 34/6.3/6.8 with 1.7/.6 slb 4.3 tov 55.5% TS
Lebron: (24) 30.0/7.6/7.1 with 1.6/1 s/b 4.4 tov 50.6% TS
Wade (6): 26.7/5.2/5.5 with 1.8/1.5 s/b 4.7 tov, 68.7% TS

So, yes it is safe to say that Kobe is the best playoff performer from 05 going through 10. Wade also performs extremely well. These stats kinda preps us up for this upcoming post-season because I guarantee you that we will see the same results. But like I previously stated, these are factual concrete evidence showing Kobe is the king of the post season.

Discuss. :pimp:


The man speaks the truth. All haters can bring up is regular season games. Well, hate to tell u regular season is for people who can't win championships.

[donald_trump]

tells me what i already know. wade is the best against the best teams. only this year seems to be somewhat of an outlier compared to the rest of his career.

he truly does step his game up another notch in the playoffs. its been amazing to watch over his career.

[HEAT111]

Shaq = FMVPs 3, Championship 4

Kobe = FMVPs 2, Championship 5

Hulk Hogan = 12 Championships

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

[Jacks3]

Nope.

Dwayne Wade is better.

Considering the guy has done nothing since 06, and even then he obviously he cheated, it's easily Kobe.

:pimp:

[Heat007]

Considering the guy has done nothing since 06,.


What are you stupid ? Wade made the Celts look ridiculous last year, compare how kobe looked against the celts. it's not close.. How can you fault Wade for being on bad teams ?

you give wade a frontcourt of bynum, gasol, odom and wade wins titles too.

Wade averaged over 33 points on almost 57% shooting in that series against the Celtics last year... and no one averages that with such a high percentage against the best defensive team in the NBA. He averaged and led the team in all of Field goal percentage, in 3-pointers made, most blocks and steals per game, leading the team for avg assists and averaged 6 rebounds against the C's.

Kobe's efficiency was a measly 44% and scored far less point averages. And he wasn't close in the other areas combined.

Wade had that amazing efficiency when the celtics were targeting him and giving him all the attention. He didn't have the help of a great "team" like the lakers.

Wade dominates in the playoffs and pops out much more than Kobe does both on the offensive and defensive end with Wade steals and blocks. His performances in his career are legendary. Scoring final 16 points of games, final 10 pts of games, taking over entire games both on the offensive end and the defensive end... legendary 4th quarter performances with extremely high efficiency.

setting records for most steals in a series. Setting records for rebound performances in a half by a guard, and blocks by a guard.,

Wade has had series where he scored at 62% against great defensive teams who had the best record in the NBA. Time and time again he's carried the team on his back leading them from legendary come from behind wins that started in his rookie season..

He took a garbage team in his rookie season and carried them on his back to the 2nd round against the top team in the conference. HE WAS A ROOKIE !! There is NO WAY Kobe could bring that crappy Miami team so far at the same age with no NBA experience like Wade did.

Give this guy the same great teams Kobe had and Wade has 5-6 titles.. and put him on the Lakers last year instead of Kobe and they beat the celtics in 5 or 6 games, not needing 7.

[Jacks3]

LOL

The only legendary thing Wade has done in the playoffs is somehow get the refs to give him 100 FT's back in the 06 Finals.

I wonder how much he paid them?

[Heat007]

I can't think of any player in modern NBA history besides Wade who was so efficient averaging 37 points while simultaneously averaging 11 assists and 6 rebounds over a 13 game stretch late in a season, or in any season... and with over 55% shooting !! Not Bron, not Kobe. I'm not saying he's Jordan but Jordan didn't do it at anytime in his great career.

Jordan accomplished those feats in a 6 game stretch... not 13.

http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h467/Catrean/wade2.jpg

and those steals and blocks.

Look at those Bulls and Lakers teams Kobe and jordan had. People who just go by rings are stupid. Wade has a bunch of rings too if he played on such teams.

[Heat007]

Umm,

When you're so quick and explosive, have a great crossover and can get to the rim in such a variety of ways, have shown that you can make shots from all sorts of angles on the drive, with all that talent... you're going to get a lot of fouls.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMFHUIwUtkc

you must be new to basketball.

but if you're really a hockey fan, it's like hockey.. The good fast players who have great talent get more penalties drawn on them because other players can't keep up and need to hold, trip and interfere.

[okayabc123]

Yes, people who goes by rings are stupid. Right!!!!!

By the way for the great stats he pit up in the 13 games stretch, the team only went 8-5. Not exactly a great record.

[Rojogaqu11]

I'd just like for once to see a comparison where coaching system and usage are included... and not a biased one.

[Heat007]

Yes, people who goes by rings are stupid. Right!!!!!

By the way for the great stats he pit up in the 13 games stretch, the team only went 8-5. Not exactly a great record.

and not exactly a great team. with a rookie coach

god you're dense.

[Heat007]

Kobe always resembled an old Jordan while Wade resembled a younger Jordan.

Kobe relied more on his shooting where Wade resembled a younger Jordan with all his drives to the basket and his terrific play off the dribble. How he can get to the basket in such a variety of ways and make shots from all sorts of angles.

We all know jordan got mad popular because of his awesome drives to the basket, not because of his shooting when he got older.

If I want to see a good shooter, I don't need to see Kobe, there are plenty of others I'd rather watch like Ray Allen etc etc etc.. But Wade is one of a kind when he entered the league and since.

And kobe's FG% leaves quite a bit to be desired anyway. That guy pumps his point totals by shooting more than anyone in the league. He;s very lucky to be playing in LA with that media attention and all those great teams that the lakers had.. If he was on any other team besides NY or LA, like let's say the clippers or nuggets for example, there would be a unanimous vote on who the better player is.

And that would EASILY be Wade.

Wade is the more versatile and dynamic player who can really rebound, can post up which is amazing for a guy his height, make amazing plays with steals and blocks for a guy who's only 6 foot 4.. who is a lot more fun to watch.... and a player who can beat you in more ways.

Wade plays a lot bigger than he is.. Kobe doesn't.

Wade > Kobe

Wade is the superior and better talent.

The only reason kobe has more rings is because he's been on far superior supporting casts. Wade wins all those titles with those chicago bulls teams jordan had and those laker teams kobe had. Basketball is a team game after all.

Kobe had Shaq in his prime years. Wade had a slightly older Shaq who wasn't the same dominant force he was during his time in LA.. anyone could have seen that. And Wade won a title with a not so dominant Shaq. And Wade was only in his 3rd year looking like a true legend owning the court... breaking playoff records. And was just as dominant in his first 2 years in the league before that. If you followed all the games, the early years of Wade's career was what legends are made of... legendary.

The one area where Kobe was better is staying healthy. He has done a better job avoiding injuries. But on a pure talent basis it's Wade > Kobe.

[Silverbullit]

Considering the guy has done nothing since 06, and even then he obviously he cheated, it's easily Kobe.

:pimp:

How many playoff series did Kobe win from 05-07?

[KBryant24]

How many playoff series did Kobe win from 05-07?
seem to forget that Kobe had kwame,luke walton, and smush parker starting with him then...i would love to see wade even make the western conference playoffs with that lineup :rolleyes:

[Silverbullit]

seem to forget that Kobe had kwame,luke walton, and smush parker starting with him then...i would love to see wade even make the western conference playoffs with that lineup :rolleyes:

He also had Odom/Butler (both averaging 15+ ppg) in 2005 and still missed the playoffs.
Kwame Brown was 6 of 6 in elimination game 5 and 8 of 9 in eliminiation game 6 in 2006. Smush scored more points in game 3 than Kobe.
Odom had a 33/10 game in elimination game 5 in 2007.

[KBryant24]

He also had Odom/Butler (both averaging 15+ ppg) in 2005 and still missed the playoffs.
Kwame Brown was 6 of 6 in elimination game 5 and 8 of 9 in eliminiation game 6 in 2006. Smush scored more points in game 3 than Kobe.
Odom had a 33/10 game in elimination game 5 in 2007.
so what brown barely had over 15 points...that doesn't point out the fact that he can't catch and he can't play defense. smush was the most inconsistent player on that team....he went from dropping 20+ and taking pressure off of kobe, to dropping 2 and sitting out the entire fourth.

[Jacks3]

Kobe always resembled an old Jordan while Wade resembled a younger Jordan.

Kobe relied more on his shooting where Wade resembled a younger Jordan with all his drives to the basket and his terrific play off the dribble. How he can get to the basket in such a variety of ways and make shots from all sorts of angles.

We all know jordan got mad popular because of his awesome drives to the basket, not because of his shooting when he got older.

If I want to see a good shooter, I don't need to see Kobe, there are plenty of others I'd rather watch like Ray Allen etc etc etc.. But Wade is one of a kind when he entered the league and since.

And kobe's FG% leaves quite a bit to be desired anyway. That guy pumps his point totals by shooting more than anyone in the league. He;s very lucky to be playing in LA with that media attention and all those great teams that the lakers had.. If he was on any other team besides NY or LA, like let's say the clippers or nuggets for example, there would be a unanimous vote on who the better player is.

And that would EASILY be Wade.

Wade is the more versatile and dynamic player who can really rebound, can post up which is amazing for a guy his height, make amazing plays with steals and blocks for a guy who's only 6 foot 4.. who is a lot more fun to watch.... and a player who can beat you in more ways.

Wade plays a lot bigger than he is.. Kobe doesn't.

Wade > Kobe

Wade is the superior and better talent.

The only reason kobe has more rings is because he's been on far superior supporting casts. Wade wins all those titles with those chicago bulls teams jordan had and those laker teams kobe had. Basketball is a team game after all.

Kobe had Shaq in his prime years. Wade had a slightly older Shaq who wasn't the same dominant force he was during his time in LA.. anyone could have seen that. And Wade won a title with a not so dominant Shaq. And Wade was only in his 3rd year looking like a true legend owning the court... breaking playoff records. And was just as dominant in his first 2 years in the league before that. If you followed all the games, the early years of Wade's career was what legends are made of... legendary.

The one area where Kobe was better is staying healthy. He has done a better job avoiding injuries. But on a pure talent basis it's Wade > Kobe.

Only legendary thing Wade did was bribe the officials. LOL

[Jacks3]

I wonder what Wade would put up if he wasn't lucky enough to come into a league without hand-checking?

Probably like 15 PPG on 40% from the field.

[donald_trump]

I wonder what Wade would put up if he wasn't lucky enough to come into a league without hand-checking?

Probably like 15 PPG on 40% from the field.

it would be better than kobes 14ppg on 39% shooting.

[KBryant24]

it would be better than kobes 14ppg on 39% shooting.
uhh kobe can actually shoot...his whole game doesn't revolve around lowering shoulder, run to hoop, throw arms in air, go to free throw line, repeat

[donald_trump]

uhh kobe can actually shoot...his whole game doesn't revolve around lowering shoulder, run to hoop, throw arms in air, go to free throw line, repeat

throughout their whole careers who has handled tough defenses better? simple question.

and the answer is, seeing as there is no subjective answer here, wade. this is based on facts.

[Heat007]

his whole game doesn't revolve around lowering shoulder, run to hoop

It's "art". Kobe can't do all this because he isn't as quick, explosive, he can't go to the hoop in the variety of ways Wade can, and he can't make the numerous shots from all sorts of angles that Wade can on the move. It's called "talent".. and ART.

jealous ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxrweKfFFIs

crossover

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DjaRO9U8po

^ that's ALL from his "rookie" season.

Wade breaks ankles brah. Poor Kobe.

[KBryant24]

throughout their whole careers who has handled tough defenses better? simple question.

and the answer is, seeing as there is no subjective answer here, wade. this is based on facts.
yeah watch what happens when his athleticism declines and he can't get to the freethrow line anymore....he doesn't have the Jordan/Kobe determination and tenacity to develop his game as his body changes. talk to me when wade has a legit jump shot.

[KBryant24]

It's "art". Kobe can't do all this because he isn't as quick, explosive, he can't go to the hoop in the variety of ways Wade can, and he can't make the numerous shots from all sorts of angles that Wade can on the move. It's called "talent".. and ART.

jealous ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxrweKfFFIs

crossover

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DjaRO9U8po

^ that's ALL from his "rookie" season.

Wade breaks ankles brah. Poor Kobe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXiDL0ZqGRY
dont even get started...Wade doesn't even possess the best crossover in the league

[Heat007]

There's a very good reason why so many commentators and NBA people call Dwayne Wade "the most unguardable player in the NBA".

and not kobe.

you lose.

[Andrei89]

6-24 in Game 7
6-24


http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSu3TZl7uVHNltVhe8F1q3rSFZsJo8wz zmV21SceQ8a2uovxEMh6w&t=1

[Heat007]

6-24 in Game 7
6-24


http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSu3TZl7uVHNltVhe8F1q3rSFZsJo8wz zmV21SceQ8a2uovxEMh6w&t=1

Wade in the playoffs vs the same team the Celtics last year averaged over 33 pts on 57% shooting and led the team in rebounds, assists , FG%, steals and blocks.

And in 2005 Wade led his team in those categories for the playoffs as well (sans rebs)..

In 06 Against the Pistons in their heyday of being the best nba team with the best record and the top ranked defense, Wade was 62% shooting against them for the series. And had ridiculous numbers for rebounds, steals, blocks etc etc... before going on and setting records for steals in the finals and averaging 35 pts in the finals and over 35 pts in each of the final 4 games with ridiculous secondary numbers for rebs, assists etc.,

BEAST playoff performer. BEAST !

[Heat007]

6-24 in Game 7
6-24


http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSu3TZl7uVHNltVhe8F1q3rSFZsJo8wz zmV21SceQ8a2uovxEMh6w&t=1

and only 2 assists.. lol

Just one of many overlooked bad nights for Kobe in the Finals... in the Finals for his career he has barely hit 40 percent.

Abysmal.

[Jacks3]

uhh kobe can actually shoot...his whole game doesn't revolve around lowering shoulder, run to hoop, throw arms in air, go to free throw line, repeat
Very true. That's why a 15th year Kobe is still dominant.

Wade won't even be in the league in his 15th year. :oldlol:

Wade= Mr. No Skill. Luckily, he has the refs to bail him out.

[Heat007]

Wade= Mr. No Skill

lol

Kobe can't do all this because he isn't as quick, doesn't have the sudden change of direction movement, he's not as explosive, he can't go to the hoop in the variety of ways Wade can, and he can't make the numerous shots from all sorts of angles that Wade can on the move. It's called "talent".

jealous ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DjaRO9U8po

When you break so many ankles you draw fouls. That's why Wade is currently in the top 4 for most fouls drawn.

Wade breaks ankles brah. Poor Kobe.

[Heat007]

Put Wade on that Laker team and take out the overrated Kobe, and the Lakers would beat the Celtics in 5 games, not 7.

[Jacks3]

What's funny is that Prime Kobe was more athletic than Wade, and had a much, much better skill-set. That's why he's still great despite losing about 3 steps compared to his prime (01-08).

Wade= Mr. No skill.

Oh, and dude is already 29. He has about 2 good years left before the end of his athleticism. Thank God.

[Heat007]

Poor Kobe "Mr I need to take a million shots to pump up my totals" Bryant.




lol

[Jacks3]

Poor Wade. Can't even shoot past 15 feet. :facepalm

[dutchguy]

Kobe and LeBron's playoff numbers against Top 5 defensive teams from 05-06 onwards.
KB8(30 games): 28.5/5.8/4.6/45%
LBJ(30 games): 28.4/7.9/7.0/42%

KOBE > LEBRON

???
kobe<lebron



Against Teams with <104 Drtg:

Kobe (30): 28.5/5.8/4.6 with 2.0/0.7 s/b 3.1 tov 53.8% TS, 102.2 avg Opponent Drtg
Lebron (30): 28.4/8.0/7.2 with 1.6/1.0 s/b 4.8 tov 49.9% ts, 101.6 avg opponnent drtg

KOBE > LEBRON

???? kobe<lebron


From 05'-10' against 50-win teams:
Kobe - 30.0 ppg, 46.7% FG, 57.0% TS, 5.7 rpg, 5.4 apg
Bron - 28.0 ppg, 42.6% FG, 52.4% TS, 8.2 rpg, 7.3 apg


KOBE > LEBRON

????? kobe=lebron???



By SRS - Elite Playoff Numbers

Against teams with + 5 SRS:
Kobe: (38) 30.2/5.5/5.6 with 1.4/0.4 s/b 3.8 tov 57.8% TS
Lebron: (24) 30.0/7.6/7.1 with 1.6/1 s/b 4.4 tov 50.6% TS

KOBE > LEBRON

?????
kobe=lebron



Against teams with + 6 SRS:
[I]Kobe (20) : 34/6.3/6.8 with 1.7/.6 slb 4.3 tov 55.5% TS
Lebron: (24) 30.0/7.6/7.1 with 1.6/1 s/b 4.4 tov 50.6% TS


KOBE > LEBRON

yeah OK

Lot of stats, but really these small margins in such small samples obviously don't mean anything. I'm far from a lebron fan and I do think Kobe was better than bron from 05-10 (and maybe still is), but that's not in the stats.

this also doesn't take into account
*05-10 were bron's 2nd-6th years in the nba, compared to Kobe's best years
*Lakers were a (much) better team most of these years
*They were playing in a different conference, so none of these teams, although simirlarly rated, were the same teams

A lot of people think they know statistics, but they don't. For example this SRS rating. In the article you link to on bball-reference states there's a 54% correlation between highest SRS rating and champions per year. That means, that on a sample of about 50, they got 46% wrong. This makes the standard error huge and therefor the predictive value insignificant.

EDIT: funny thing, if you just take the best record for each season, the team with the best record won 31 out of 60 championships. 31/60=52% So just taking the winning record has as much predictive value as this SRS thing

I'm sorry, I agree that Kobe had much more (team AND personal) succes in the playoffs, but these stats don't prove that at all

[Heat007]

Poor Wade. Can't even shoot past 15 feet.

yeah just horrible

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePZAj9ffagA

^ make sure to watch the last half..shooting clinic.

What did kobe shoot against the C's in the playoffs last yr to Wade? comparing 43% to 57% ? and 40% for Kobe's career in the finals ?? THAT shooting ? lol

Wade is a FAR more efficient player than Kobe.

Poor Kobe.

[King Lebron LBJ]

:oldlol: @ saying Wade isn't skilled. dude is one of the most skilled players in NBA history.

[Dwade305]

Very true. That's why a 15th year Kobe is still dominant.

Wade won't even be in the league in his 15th year. :oldlol:

Wade= Mr. No Skill. Luckily, he has the refs to bail him out. Nastradumbass tell me will the world in 2012:confusedshrug: ?

[Heat007]

Kobe the game 7 playoff quitter after being up 3 games to 1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGoxIvuPtmo

what a puss.

:roll:

WADE NEVER EVER flat out quit like that in an elimination game..this is how
wade plays in an elimination game when his team is down 3-0 !! Never mind all the times he played hard through pain in the playoffs from an injury.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePZAj9ffagA

Case closed.

End.

Of.

Story.

[Hulk Hogan]

Heat007, hey gimmick account.

Why did you come into my thread and start trolling.

GTFO, I don't want you in my thread. I was having a good conversation before you came in with your trolling. :facepalm

[pauk]

lebron ofcourse?
not any news

[Andrei89]

Heat007, hey gimmick account.

Why did you come into my thread and start trolling.

GTFO, I don't want you in my thread. I was having a good conversation before you came in with your trolling. :facepalm
:roll: :roll:


6-24

[catch24]

Heat007, hey gimmick account.

Why did you come into my thread and start trolling.

GTFO, I don't want you in my thread. I was having a good conversation before you came in with your trolling. :facepalm

You gonna act like you didn't see Dutch's post? And when you have time, answer my questions I've asked 2-3 pages ago - SRS; where does the extra 3 points come from for teams with homecourt? Why the arbitrary number of 104? Also, why act like Kobe>LeBron when LeBron's all around production is better than Kobe's according to your posts.

On average, since LBJ first made the postseason, he has faced better defensive teams according to "defensive rating".

[Hulk Hogan]

You gonna act like you didn't see Dutch's post? And when you have time, answer my questions I've asked 2-3 pages ago - SRS; where does the extra 3 points come from for teams with homecourt? Why the arbitrary number of 104? Also, why act like Kobe>LeBron when LeBron's all around production is better than Kobe's according to your posts.

On average, since LBJ first made the postseason, he has faced better defensive teams according to "defensive rating".

I will answer your question when I get back (later on today)... Will be busy today with alot of college work. :pimp:

[Mr. Jabbar]

I will answer your question when I get back (later on today)... Will be busy today with alot of college work. :pimp:

stay tuned :lol

[The Iron Fist]

Nearly 60% of Kobe's playoff series' the last 5 years have come against Phx/Utah/Denver. Every freaking perimeter star dreams about facing those teams while in bed every night. As the numbers I posted above clearly indicate, against top-level defensive teams, LeBron and Kobe's production is close to a wash. And this is a 21-25 year old LeBron vs. 27-31 year old Kobe.






2010 Western Conference playoff teams all had 50 or more wins
2009 Western Conference playoff teams all had 48 or more wins
2008 Western Conference playoff teams all had 50 or more wins
2007 Western Conference playoff teams all had 42 or more wins
2006 Western Conference playoff teams all had 45 or more wins

2006 EC 3 teams at .500 or below
2007 EC 3 teams at .500 or below
2008 EC 3 teams at .500 or below
2009 EC 3 teams at .500 or below
2010 well shiver me ****ing timbers, a season in which only one eastern conference playoff team was at .500 or below.


Out of those 13 teams in those 5 seasons that came in at .500 or below, Lebron faced 4 of them.

2010 Chicago Bulls 41-41
2009 Detroit Pistons 39-43
2007 Washington Wizards 41-41
2007 New Jersey Nets 41-41

I don't know about you, but I'd rather play in the east.

[Indian guy]

I still don't understand why Hogan continues to persist he's including "everything" when the criteria he's created negates every playoff series LeBron's played against sub-50 win teams. I guess he realizes his entire post goes down the gutters if he did that, so he's just continuing to live in denial.

[dutchguy]

SRS; where does the extra 3 points come from for teams with homecourt? Why the arbitrary number of 104?

I guess it's the average differential between home game scores and total scores. This is a wild guess though, so I could be seriously wrong :oldlol:
To me, this part could still make sense though. HCA could very well get you about 3 extra points.
For me the funniest part is that after all this adding up and subtracting you got this great new stat: SRS !! ...
Which then predicts a championship exactly as well as the reg season record does :roll:
Just another good example of people who think they know what statistics are about but don't have a clue




Also, why act like Kobe>LeBron when LeBron's all around production is better than Kobe's according to your posts.
On average, since LBJ first made the postseason, he has faced better defensive teams according to "defensive rating".

What you can see from hulk's posts is that he's weighing ppg very heavily. Even if you do it still doesn't make sense btw, because averaging 0.5 ppg higher in a sample of about 50 games or whatever it was is not a significant difference. In other words you cannot rule out that that was just 'luck'.

[ginobli2311]

although the criteria seems to be extremely flawed, i think the results show that kobe is a better scorer than lebron in the above sample meaning he scores more points at a slightly better efficiency.

what hulk fails to notice is that lebron plays significantly better defense and is a better passer and rebounder by a wide margin.

so i have no problem if this is just about scoring, but if its about everything...then its:

1. lebron
2. wade
3. kobe

[aau]

On average, since LBJ first made the postseason, he has faced better defensive teams according to "defensive rating".

not really coming at you catch but i found this statement to be
truly amazing - wasn't aware of DRTG up until today
so i dug up some stats on their PS opponents
(conference only)

.

Regular Season

Cavs

2006 - WIZ 101.7 / 44% .... OPP 99.8 // 46%
......... DET 96.8 // 45% .... OPP 90.2 // 45%

2007 - WIZ 104.3 / 45% .... OPP 104.9 / 47%
......... N.J. 97.6 // 45% ..... OPP 98.3 // 45%
......... DET 96.0 // 45% ..... OPP 91.8 // 44%

2008 - WIZ 98.8 // 44% ..... OPP 99.2 // 46%

2009 - DET 94.2 // 45% ..... OPP 94.7 // 45%
......... ATL 98.1 // 45% ..... OPP 96.5 // 45%

2010 - CHI 97.5 // 45% ..... OPP 96.5 // 45%

.

Lakers

2006 - PHX 108.4 / 48% ..... OPP 102.8 / 45%

2007 - PHX 110.2 / 49% ..... OPP 102.9 / 45%

2008 - DEN 110.7 / 47% ..... OPP 107.0 / 45%
......... UTA 106.2 / 49% ..... OPP 99.3 // 46%
......... S.A. 95.4 // 45% ..... OPP 90.6 // 44%

2009 - UTA 103.6 / 47% ..... OPP 100.9 / 46%
......... HOU 98.4 // 45% ..... OPP 94.4 // 44%
......... DEN 104.3 / 47% ..... OPP 100.9 / 44%

2010 - OKC 101.5 / 46% ..... OPP 98.0 // 44%
......... UTA 104.2 / 49% ..... OPP 98.9 // 45%
......... PHX 110.2 / 49% ..... OPP 105.3 / 45%

.

offensively

EAST - zero teams shot better than 45%

WEST - zero teams shot less than 45%
(8 of 11 teams shot 47% or better - 4 shot 49%)

EAST - 2 teams avg over 100 ppg

WEST - 2 teams avg less 100 ppg

.

defensively

EAST - 8 of 9 teams allowed 45% or better

WEST - 9 of 11 teams allowed 45% or less

.

lebron's comp wasn't better defensively

nobody could shoot worth a crap

low scoring teams on low %

.

conclusion

offensively kobe's postseason competition was far
better than lebron's and just as good defensively

[STATUTORY]

not really coming at you catch but i found this statement to be
truly amazing - wasn't aware of DRTG up until today
so i dug up some stats on their PS opponents
(conference only)

.

Regular Season

Cavs

2006 - WIZ 101.7 / 44% .... OPP 99.8 // 46%
......... DET 96.8 // 45% .... OPP 90.2 // 45%

2007 - WIZ 104.3 / 45% .... OPP 104.9 / 47%
......... N.J. 97.6 // 45% ..... OPP 98.3 // 45%
......... DET 96.0 // 45% ..... OPP 91.8 // 44%

2008 - WIZ 98.8 // 44% ..... OPP 99.2 // 46%

2009 - DET 94.2 // 45% ..... OPP 94.7 // 45%
......... ATL 98.1 // 45% ..... OPP 96.5 // 45%

2010 - CHI 97.5 // 45% ..... OPP 96.5 // 45%

.

Lakers

2006 - PHX 108.4 / 48% ..... OPP 102.8 / 45%

2007 - PHX 110.2 / 49% ..... OPP 102.9 / 45%

2008 - DEN 110.7 / 47% ..... OPP 107.0 / 45%
......... UTA 106.2 / 49% ..... OPP 99.3 // 46%
......... S.A. 95.4 // 45% ..... OPP 90.6 // 44%

2009 - UTA 103.6 / 47% ..... OPP 100.9 / 46%
......... HOU 98.4 // 45% ..... OPP 94.4 // 44%
......... DEN 104.3 / 47% ..... OPP 100.9 / 44%

2010 - OKC 101.5 / 46% ..... OPP 98.0 // 44%
......... UTA 104.2 / 49% ..... OPP 98.9 // 45%
......... PHX 110.2 / 49% ..... OPP 105.3 / 45%

.

offensively

EAST - zero teams shot better than 45%

WEST - zero teams shot less than 45%
(8 of 11 teams shot 47% or better - 4 shot 49%)

EAST - 2 teams avg over 100 ppg

WEST - 2 teams avg less 100 ppg

.

defensively

EAST - 7 of 9 teams allowed 45% or better

WEST - 9 of 11 teams allowed 45% or less

.

lebron's comp wasn't better defensively

nobody could shoot worth a crap

low scoring teams on low %

.

conclusion

offensively kobe's postseason competition was far
better than lebron's and just as good defensively

:applause:

good post homie. i don't think that should surprise anyone who's not sporting lebron headband