Kobe Bryant, MJ, Lebron Game Winning Shot Percentage!

[Hulk Hogan]

TOP 5 GAME WINNING SHOOTERS AND THEIR TOTAL AND %!

Kobe Bryant: 29-71, 40.8% (Leads NBA as of now 2011)
Michael Jordan: 27-74, 36.5%
Robert Horry: 25-68, 36.7%
Lebron James: 21-67, 31.3%
Channing Frye: 2-2, 100% (as of Feb. 27 and Feb. 28)

[kaiiu]

I dont care about % but I know one of those guys dont belong on a clutch list and it aint Channing Frye

[winwin]

Hulk Hogan .. why are you overrating lebron?

[AlphaWolf24]

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/user_images/1952000/AlphaWolf-1952227_253_404.jpg

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:


_______________________________________

(Looks at Fry's)....Dude just retire now and go down as the GOAT Clutch shooter.

[ginobli2311]

TOP 5 GAME WINNING SHOOTERS AND THEIR TOTAL AND %!

Kobe Bryant: 29-71, 40.8% (Leads NBA as of now 2011)
Michael Jordan: 27-74, 36.5%
Robert Horry: 25-68, 36.7%
Lebron James: 21-67, 31.3%
Channing Frye: 2-2, 100% (as of Feb. 27 and Feb. 28)

where are you getting your information?

considering espn has kobe taking 115 attempts.

please post link.

[fubu05]

Yeah this guy's numbers are BULLSHIT. Melo has the best percentage at 48%, making 21/44, and it's probably gone up a little considering the Bulls game this year.

Here's the most accurate chart, albeit a little outdated, I think about 4 months. Halfway through the article.

http://espn.go.com/blog/TrueHoop/post/_/id/24200/the-truth-about-kobe-bryant-in-crunch-time

[az00m]

http://kobe-bryant-michael-jordan.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=78&Itemid=96

[Hulk Hogan]

where are you getting your information?

considering espn has kobe taking 115 attempts.

please post link.

This is for game winning opportunity only. ESPN contains game tying opportunity shots. Someone compiled the stats and posted them on the ESPN article comment and then updated it on the NBA article.

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2011/03/01/statscube-makers-of-the-big-shot/?ls=iref:nbahpt1

[kkling]

It's the hulk, Lebron hater/Kobe dickrider, what do you expect?

[az00m]

Kobe isn't clutch when it matters. His finals shooting percentage is 40%.

And his game 7 shooting percent is even worse:lol

[Walduś]

Kobe isn't clutch when it matters. His finals shooting percentage is 40%.

And his game 7 shooting percent is even worse:lol
:no:

its 41.2 %

[ginobli2311]

This is for game winning opportunity only. ESPN contains game tying opportunity shots. Someone compiled the stats and posted them on the ESPN article comment and then updated it on the NBA article.

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2011/03/01/statscube-makers-of-the-big-shot/?ls=iref:nbahpt1

ROFL.....that is just some poster saying that. We have absolutely no idea if that is correct.

I'll trust ESPN over some random poster. :roll:

[NBASTATMAN]

TOP 5 GAME WINNING SHOOTERS AND THEIR TOTAL AND %!

Kobe Bryant: 29-71, 40.8% (Leads NBA as of now 2011)
Michael Jordan: 27-74, 36.5%
Robert Horry: 25-68, 36.7%
Lebron James: 21-67, 31.3%
Channing Frye: 2-2, 100% (as of Feb. 27 and Feb. 28)


That is a huge joke.. Kobe has missed at least 60-70 game winners in his career.. LOL

[NBASTATMAN]

ROFL.....that is just some poster saying that. We have absolutely no idea if that is correct.

I'll trust ESPN over some random poster. :roll:


HULK HOGAN is onedumbfcuk.. :roll:

The other day he couldn't add and now he is taking this and running with it.. KOBESTANS actually hurt Kobe.. :roll:

[ginobli2311]

That is a huge joke.. Kobe has missed at least 60-70 game winners in his career.. LOL

its a made up stat by a random poster on that board.

means no more than me saying:

"kobe is 6 of 22 on game winners in the playoffs"

even though i'm right and have the evidence to back it up.

Hulk with the epic fail once again.

[Hulk Hogan]

http://kobe-bryant-michael-jordan.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=78&Itemid=96

That person is obviously wrong. Again this is game winning shot attempts ONLY.

Plus they didn't research it, they are going by what Jordan said not what they researched (for how many attempts he has.)

[Indian guy]

Someone compiled the stats and posted them on the ESPN article comment and then updated it on the NBA article.


Uhh, I'm going to need something better than "someone compiled the stats". How did this "someone" get access to MJ's last-shots?

Like your previous thread, this is another FAIL.

[ginobli2311]

That person is obviously wrong. Again this is game winning shot attempts ONLY.

Plus they didn't research it, they are going by what Jordan said not what they researched (for how many attempts he has.)

we don't know jordan's numbers yet. i bet we will in the next few months.

but we do know kobe's for his entire career. espn looked at every game kobe's played. 36 of 115 for 31.3%.....

care to wager on who shoots a better percentage between jordan and kobe when the numbers come out?

i'll give you ten to one odds.

let me know.

[The Dream]

I dont care about % but I know one of those guys dont belong on a clutch list and it aint Channing Frye


:lol

[Batz]

Lebron and Horry don't have that many gamewinners..

[Hulk Hogan]

That is a huge joke.. Kobe has missed at least 60-70 game winners in his career.. LOL

STFU... You don't even know what a game-winning shot is.
For example the shot kobe hit just weeks ago against portland to send it to OT counts in ESPN list. But it doesn't count as an official game winner attempt.

[NBASTATMAN]

That person is obviously wrong. Again this is game winning shot attempts ONLY.

Plus they didn't research it, they are going by what Jordan said not what they researched (for how many attempts he has.)


:violin:


HULK HOGAN HAS TO BE JACKS3.. Cuz if not than HULK is even dumber than that CAT.. :roll:

[Hulk Hogan]

we don't know jordan's numbers yet. i bet we will in the next few months.

but we do know kobe's for his entire career. espn looked at every game kobe's played. 36 of 115 for 31.3%.....

care to wager on who shoots a better percentage between jordan and kobe when the numbers come out?

i'll give you ten to one odds.

let me know.

ARE YOU A FCUKING DUMASS!

Their statistics are not for game winners only, but for game tying shots aswell. The shot kobe hit on portland counts on their system as an attempt and make, but doesn't count as an game-winner attempt.

That's what the game-winner stat is about. Just shots taken to win the game not to tie. Like Lebron's failed drive to win the game last game.

[ginobli2311]

STFU... You don't even know what a game-winning shot is.
For example the shot kobe hit just weeks ago against portland to send it to OT counts in ESPN list. But it doesn't count as an official game winner attempt.

lol...another case of kobe stans wanting less information. same shit different day.

kobe stans want to narrow the criteria and make any stat so limited that its worthless.

why not just jumpers? why not just swishes? why not just shots made in California?

Damn Hulk....you sad.

[NBASTATMAN]

STFU... You don't even know what a game-winning shot is.
For example the shot kobe hit just weeks ago against portland to send it to OT counts in ESPN list. But it doesn't count as an official game winner attempt.


I can tell that you don't know anything... Poor KOBE, his stans have to be the dumbest posters on this site.. At least a guy like FATAL used facts.. Though he was always selective.. HULK is using some other stans numbers like they are facts..

[ginobli2311]

ARE YOU A FCUKING DUMASS!

Their statistics are not for game winners only, but for game tying shots aswell. The shot kobe hit on portland counts on their system as an attempt and make, but doesn't count as an game-winner attempt.

That's what the game-winner stat is about. Just shots taken to win the game not to tie. Like Lebron's failed drive to win the game last game.


http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5379/78979223e534d0aab5960c0.jpg

[NBASTATMAN]

ARE YOU A FCUKING DUMASS!

Their statistics are not for game winners only, but for game tying shots aswell. The shot kobe hit on portland counts on their system as an attempt and make, but doesn't count as an game-winner attempt.

That's what the game-winner stat is about. Just shots taken to win the game not to tie. Like Lebron's failed drive to win the game last game.


DUMA doesn't add tWo SS'S to his name.. :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Indian guy]

Again, how the **** do we know these numbers are legit? Just some random poster on ESPN posted it under the 'comments' section. What possible reason do we have to take this guy seriously?

[STATUTORY]

lol...another case of kobe stans wanting less information. same shit different day.

kobe stans want to narrow the criteria and make any stat so limited that its worthless.

why not just jumpers? why not just swishes? why not just shots made in California?

Damn Hulk....you sad.


wait so you are mad that Mr. Hogan is only counting what's colloquially referred to as game winners? meaning shots that actually win the game?

who's sad now?

[ginobli2311]

ARE YOU A FCUKING DUMASS!

Their statistics are not for game winners only, but for game tying shots aswell. The shot kobe hit on portland counts on their system as an attempt and make, but doesn't count as an game-winner attempt.

That's what the game-winner stat is about. Just shots taken to win the game not to tie. Like Lebron's failed drive to win the game last game.

you mean like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqWyWM3esNQ&feature=related

AIRBALL ON A SERIES WINNER. ROFL.

[ginobli2311]

wait so you are mad that Mr. Hogan is only counting what's colloquially referred to as game winners? meaning shots that actually win the game?

who's sad now?

he's not.

his stat is made up.

if it was accurate i'd give it the time of day. and of course the stans want the narrowest criteria on any stat. only chance kobe has.

[Hulk Hogan]

Lebron and Horry don't have that many gamewinners..

Actually he does. Considering that ESPN statistics that consists of game winners and game tying attempt has him for 23 for 69.

[NBASTATMAN]

Lebron and Horry don't have that many gamewinners..


hulk got hit in the head too much.. I think lifting andre the giant really hurt his brain.. :roll:

[NBASTATMAN]

wait so you are mad that Mr. Hogan is only counting what's colloquially referred to as game winners? meaning shots that actually win the game?

who's sad now?


statutory you must be Hulk.. Cuz the only people that would believe those numbers are kids that haven't watched kobe play for 15 seasons.. Ask any diehard Laker fan and he will tell you those numbers are way off..

[Hulk Hogan]

Again, how the **** do we know these numbers are legit? Just some random poster on ESPN posted it under the 'comments' section. What possible reason do we have to take this guy seriously?

I'm getting to it.
If these idiots can stop being mad, I can post everything they researched.

[G-Funk]

the prostitutes are freaking out hard! lol

[Indian guy]

I'm getting to it.
If these idiots can stop being mad, I can post everything they researched.

Good. I'm waiting.

[SavageMode]

hulk got hit in the head too much.. I think lifting andre the giant really hurt his brain.. :roll:
LOLLOLLOLLOLL:roll: :roll: :applause:

[KB2clutch]

honestly who cares about stats, anyone who's not a complete retard knows kobe is the most clutch player of all time

[asdf1990]

honestly who cares about stats, anyone who's not a complete retard knows kobe is the most clutch player of all time

6-24 in a game 7 vs a clutch steal and a clutch bucket to win a championship on the road.

[sh0wtime]

TOP 5 GAME WINNING SHOOTERS AND THEIR TOTAL AND %!

Kobe Bryant: 29-71, 40.8% (Leads NBA as of now 2011)
Michael Jordan: 27-74, 36.5%
Robert Horry: 25-68, 36.7%
Lebron James: 21-67, 31.3%
Channing Frye: 2-2, 100% (as of Feb. 27 and Feb. 28)

Impressive, what stands out to me is James, thats a ridicilous amount of gamewinners made considering he played half as much as Kobe/Jordan/Horry, close to as many as they made already. But im curious to know of Reggie Millers and Larry Birds numbers? Anyone?

Hulk do you mind sharing the source from where you got this information?

[KB2clutch]

6-24 in a game 7 vs a clutch steal and a clutch bucket to win a championship on the road.

notsureifsrs... kobe hit a clutch jumper in late in the game to give them a good lead and gave artest the assist for what was basically the dagger, not to mention 15 rebounds

[asdf1990]

notsureifsrs... kobe hit a clutch jumper in late in the game to give them a good lead and gave artest the assist for what was basically the dagger, not to mention 15 rebounds

not to mention gasol had more offensive rebounds than the whole celtic team combined. kobe didin't win game 7 no matter what way u put it. kobe has the lebron syndrome in the finals.

[donald_trump]

your information is blatantly wrong.

first off horry definitely doesnt have that many gamewinners. another thing. with all the info that has gone into all this gamewinner research it has clearly been concluded by several sources that lebron has around 13 or 14 winners, not 21. fail again.

and jordan has more than kobe, thats guaranteed seeing as most of the lists we've seen of jordan were compiled without even being able to watch all the games. jordan has at least 35.

and kobe... lol. everyone in the world knows he doesnt shoot that well in the clutch, and everyone knows hes missed a hell of a lot more than that.

[Walduś]

not to mention gasol had more offensive rebounds than the whole celtic team combined. kobe didin't win game 7 no matter what way u put it. kobe has the lebron syndrome in the finals.
:rolleyes: kobe doesn't shoot 30% from the field

[az00m]

honestly who cares about stats, anyone who's not a complete retard knows kobe is the most clutch player of all time

Kobe shoots 41% in the finals.

he is one of the worst 4th quarter finals shooters in the history of the game.

35% is so clutch!!

[sh0wtime]

I did some more interesting research on this and according to 82 games: http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

The active gamewinning leaders as of 2003 to 2009 were/are:

Lebron James - 17 of 50 (34% FG) and 14 freethrows
Vince Carter - 16 of 51 (31% FG) and 10 freethrows
Ray Allen - 15 of 39 (38% FG) and 4 freethrows
Kobe Bryant - 14 of 56 (25% FG) and 12 freethrows

Kindof mindbogling, if Kobe is 29 out of 71 right now for his entire career that means he made 12 out of 15 gamewinners during 1996-2002 and 2009-2010 which is kindof hard to believe according to me, not that that he made 12 out 15, but that he took only 15 gamewinning shots during 7 years?

And if Lebron is 21 out of 67 right now, that means he in only 1-2 years made 4 out of 17 gamewinning shots, 2 more gamewinning shot attempts than Kobe took during 7 years, rather fishy!

[ginobli2311]

I did some more interesting research on this and according to 82 games: http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

The active gamewinning leaders as of 2003 to 2009 were/are:

Lebron James - 17 of 50 (34% FG) and 14 freethrows
Vince Carter - 16 of 51 (31% FG) and 10 freethrows
Ray Allen - 15 of 39 (38% FG) and 4 freethrows
Kobe Bryant - 14 of 56 (25% FG) and 12 freethrows

Kindof mindbogling, if Kobe is 29 out of 71 right now for his entire career that means he made 12 out of 15 gamewinners during 1996-2002 and 2009-2010 which is kindof hard to believe according to me, not that that he made 12 out 15, but that he took only 15 gamewinning shots during 7 years?

the stats are made up.

hogan left and didn't come back because its not true.

[ginobli2311]

:rolleyes: kobe doesn't shoot 30% from the field

he does on game winners.
:rockon:

[sh0wtime]

the stats are made up.

hogan left and didn't come back because its not true.

I have trusted Hulk so far. :D But i need some explanations and sources.
What makes it even more fishy is that if Lebron is 21 out of 67 right now, that means he in only 1-2 years made 4 out of 17 gamewinning shots, 2 more gamewinning shot attempts than Kobe took during 7 years (according to 82games), rather fishy! Kobe sure took more than 15 gamewinning shots during the 1996-2002 and 2009-2010 i would think.

[monkeypox]

your information is blatantly wrong.

first off horry definitely doesnt have that many gamewinners. another thing. with all the info that has gone into all this gamewinner research it has clearly been concluded by several sources that lebron has around 13 or 14 winners, not 21. fail again.

and jordan has more than kobe, thats guaranteed seeing as most of the lists we've seen of jordan were compiled without even being able to watch all the games. jordan has at least 35.

and kobe... lol. everyone in the world knows he doesnt shoot that well in the clutch, and everyone knows hes missed a hell of a lot more than that.

This all sounds like anecdotal evidence, making it about as valuable as the stats in the OP. All you stat junkies just refuse to see how pointless most stats are, and how inherently empty they can be. You can shuffle around your definition of game winner or clutch till it says what you want it to say. Yet someone posts some jiggered stat to show something you agree with and you guys just close your brains and say "I've got stats to back it up, I will listen to nothing else!" Everyone falls in to the trap of thinking stats can't be biased because they're just numbers, forgetting that usually someone has inserted some kind of meaning in to the numbers, making the end result as biased as any other method of measure.

Shawn Marion more clutch than Kobe? You ever consider that Marion might not get the coverage that Kobe gets in the clutch? You ever consider that Kobe is probably the most watched player in the clutch in the league? Whether you believe he's actually clutch or not, the league belives it and guards him accordingly. Melo doesn't even have the most clutch reputation on his own team, that would belong to Chauncy Billups.

Here's a question for you stat heads. If you were coaching against a team in the clutch with Marion and Kobe on it, where do you focus your defense? On Marion right? Because the stats say that he's more clutch? Riiiight.

[ginobli2311]

This all sounds like anecdotal evidence, making it about as valuable as the stats in the OP. All you stat junkies just refuse to see how pointless most stats are, and how inherently empty they can be. You can shuffle around your definition of game winner or clutch till it says what you want it to say. Yet someone posts some jiggered stat to show something you agree with and you guys just close your brains and say "I've got stats to back it up, I will listen to nothing else!" Everyone falls in to the trap of thinking stats can't be biased because they're just numbers, forgetting that usually someone has inserted some kind of meaning in to the numbers, making the end result as biased as any other method of measure.

Shawn Marion more clutch than Kobe? You ever consider that Marion might not get the coverage that Kobe gets in the clutch? You ever consider that Kobe is probably the most watched player in the clutch in the league? Whether you believe he's actually clutch or not, the league belives it and guards him accordingly. Melo doesn't even have the most clutch reputation on his own team, that would belong to Chauncy Billups.

Here's a question for you stat heads. If you were coaching against a team in the clutch with Marion and Kobe on it, where do you focus your defense? On Marion right? Because the stats say that he's more clutch? Riiiight.

what you are referring to is context and logic. those should be used in conjunction with stats. so of course we know that marion is not better at game winners than kobe when we use context.

and also, one stat can never be the end all be all. you have to combine a number of different measures and crtieria with context and logic and then you can come to conclusions.

the idea of just "watching the games" though is one of the dumbest notions i've ever heard. as hard core fans, we barely see more than 10% of all games played so our "watching" is extremely limited. not to mention we all have personal preferences and personal biases. something stats don't have.

i'd ask if you people think ft% is a flawed stat. all it is, is a count of makes and misses at the ft line. and that is all these game winning shots stats are as well. just makes and misses counted.

thats it.

[Deltron3030]

Yeah this guy's numbers are BULLSHIT. Melo has the best percentage at 48%, making 21/44, and it's probably gone up a little considering the Bulls game this year.

Here's the most accurate chart, albeit a little outdated, I think about 4 months. Halfway through the article.

http://espn.go.com/blog/TrueHoop/post/_/id/24200/the-truth-about-kobe-bryant-in-crunch-time

nice find

[donald_trump]

This all sounds like anecdotal evidence, making it about as valuable as the stats in the OP. All you stat junkies just refuse to see how pointless most stats are, and how inherently empty they can be. You can shuffle around your definition of game winner or clutch till it says what you want it to say. Yet someone posts some jiggered stat to show something you agree with and you guys just close your brains and say "I've got stats to back it up, I will listen to nothing else!" Everyone falls in to the trap of thinking stats can't be biased because they're just numbers, forgetting that usually someone has inserted some kind of meaning in to the numbers, making the end result as biased as any other method of measure.

Shawn Marion more clutch than Kobe? You ever consider that Marion might not get the coverage that Kobe gets in the clutch? You ever consider that Kobe is probably the most watched player in the clutch in the league? Whether you believe he's actually clutch or not, the league belives it and guards him accordingly. Melo doesn't even have the most clutch reputation on his own team, that would belong to Chauncy Billups.

Here's a question for you stat heads. If you were coaching against a team in the clutch with Marion and Kobe on it, where do you focus your defense? On Marion right? Because the stats say that he's more clutch? Riiiight.

its not though. im basing this on previous statistics that were posted on here. also there was a list of gamewinners, not game tying and gamewinning shots like that created by 82 games, created by the very posters of this site for the best players like lebron, melo, kobe, wade and older players like jordan.

[Heat007]

Hulk is stupid.

Jordan > Wade > Kobe

[Hittin_Shots]

This all sounds like anecdotal evidence, making it about as valuable as the stats in the OP. All you stat junkies just refuse to see how pointless most stats are, and how inherently empty they can be. You can shuffle around your definition of game winner or clutch till it says what you want it to say. Yet someone posts some jiggered stat to show something you agree with and you guys just close your brains and say "I've got stats to back it up, I will listen to nothing else!" Everyone falls in to the trap of thinking stats can't be biased because they're just numbers, forgetting that usually someone has inserted some kind of meaning in to the numbers, making the end result as biased as any other method of measure.

Shawn Marion more clutch than Kobe? You ever consider that Marion might not get the coverage that Kobe gets in the clutch? You ever consider that Kobe is probably the most watched player in the clutch in the league? Whether you believe he's actually clutch or not, the league belives it and guards him accordingly. Melo doesn't even have the most clutch reputation on his own team, that would belong to Chauncy Billups.

Here's a question for you stat heads. If you were coaching against a team in the clutch with Marion and Kobe on it, where do you focus your defense? On Marion right? Because the stats say that he's more clutch? Riiiight.

I'd say Allen is the most watched during the clutch..

Also why not count game tying shots? or why not count the game tying shots where the team won in the OT if they won in OT that was a game winning shot...

[Ne 1]

Hulk is stupid.

Jordan > Wade > Kobe

http://oi52.tinypic.com/2yxkl89.jpg

[tpols]

These threads are like a fly to a street lamp for gino:roll:

[ginobli2311]

These threads are like a fly to a street lamp for gino:roll:

great contribution to the thread and forum. we are so lucky to have you.

[jstern]

Those stats are made up. So now people like the op can make stuff up and that wont get deleted?

[OldSchoolBBall]

TOP 5 GAME WINNING SHOOTERS AND THEIR TOTAL AND %!

Kobe Bryant: 29-71, 40.8% (Leads NBA as of now 2011)
Michael Jordan: 27-74, 36.5%
Robert Horry: 25-68, 36.7%
Lebron James: 21-67, 31.3%
Channing Frye: 2-2, 100% (as of Feb. 27 and Feb. 28)

Err, this info is completely false, at least for Jordan. They didn't compile such stats back then.

[Ne 1]

These threads are like a fly to a street lamp for gino:roll:

It's impossible for that fegget to keep Kobe's name out his mouth.

Hope he chokes on a dick when Kobe and the Lake show get that 6th ring in June.

[monkeypox]

I'd say Allen is the most watched during the clutch..

Also why not count game tying shots? or why not count the game tying shots where the team won in the OT if they won in OT that was a game winning shot...

So with the game on the line against a team with Allen and Kobe, you'd focus on Allen, who generally requires a screen or two, rather than Kobe, who's going to be able to create on his own and is a threat from more areas? I guess it depends on whether you're down 1 point or more. What would you say if the stats said otherwise? Would you trust your observation or would you trust the numbers?

I'm not even quibbling about the definition of game winning shot, it's just how things are moved around for people to prove points. Why should a game tying shot be collected under a stat for game winning shots? Maybe because the guy was trying to prove some point. Stats don't exist in some unimpeachable vacuum, they're just a tool for people to get a more accurate understanding of what's happening out there. It's not going to generally tell you why or how, but that's still what most of these idiots use it for. You can tell yourself that everyone in the NBA is wrong and that Kobe isn't actually that clutch if you want, I'm just saying just using selective slices of statistical data isn't going to prove that much.

[NBASTATMAN]

HULK HOGAN you have to be JACKS3... ONEDUMBFCUK... :lol


FAKE STATS AGAIN... Than you start posting as KOBE2CLutch or some other BS name on this thread..


OWNED again.. AND again and AGAIN.. Poor Kobe.. He should have smarter fans.. :roll:

[Heat007]

Wow. Kobe sucks even more than I thought.

[Psileas]

TOP 5 GAME WINNING SHOOTERS AND THEIR TOTAL AND %!

Kobe Bryant: 29-71, 40.8% (Leads NBA as of now 2011)
Michael Jordan: 27-74, 36.5%
Robert Horry: 25-68, 36.7%
Lebron James: 21-67, 31.3%
Channing Frye: 2-2, 100% (as of Feb. 27 and Feb. 28)

This list is so fake it doesn't even pretend it's not.
Apart from what the others mentioned about the fake numbers, where is the list of Horry's and James' game winners? I'm pretty sure neither James nor Horry have that many. Are we to believe that the all-time leaders are only active players (and Jordan)? If not, why isn't this list indicating the period of "research"? Why is this supposed top-5 trying to make a joke by mentioning Frye? Is mentioning 5 real players that difficult, so they decided to add 4 real and a joke? Isn't there any other player ever who had 1-1 or 2-2 tries? Hell, is it even legit that Frye never in the past even attempted a game-winner?

[XxSMSxX]

TOP 5 GAME WINNING SHOOTERS AND THEIR TOTAL AND %!

Kobe Bryant: 29-71, 40.8% (Leads NBA as of now 2011)
Michael Jordan: 27-74, 36.5%
Robert Horry: 25-68, 36.7%
Lebron James: 21-67, 31.3%
Channing Frye: 2-2, 100% (as of Feb. 27 and Feb. 28)

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

http://ramascreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/pinocchio.jpg

[DuMa]

So much fail

[Simple Jack]

Let's say these are true; where are the people, Hulk included, who said game winners made > %? LeBron is on pace to really shatter some of these guys numbers in terms of game winners made. Not that I agree with which matters more, but you can't be changing your argument now.

[ginobli2311]

Let's say these are true; where are the people, Hulk included, who said game winners made > %? LeBron is on pace to really shatter some of these guys numbers in terms of game winners made. Not that I agree with which matters more, but you can't be changing your argument now.

yea. its priceless.

they are the same people hating on rose for his efficiency this year. but i thought fg% doesn't matter?

Hulk is just losing it. He's doing a bad job of making up stats now. If its all about makes, Lebron is on pace (according to the made up numbers above) to blow everyone out all time on game winners.

Therefore using the Kobe stan logic, that would make him the most clutch player ever.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Hulk Hogan]

Let's say these are true; where are the people, Hulk included, who said game winners made > %? LeBron is on pace to really shatter some of these guys numbers in terms of game winners made. Not that I agree with which matters more, but you can't be changing your argument now.

But Lebron has made less and has less percentage? :confusedshrug:
Lebron has also missed 3 game-winning attempts this season.
He has also missed 2 game-tying attempts this season.

[ginobli2311]

But Lebron has made less and has less percentage? :confusedshrug:
Lebron has also missed 3 game-winning attempts this season.
He has also missed 2 game-tying attempts this season.

and nobody would claim lebron to be playing well in these situations. he's been awful actually.

if we are just talking about this season, Lebron has been really bad. if we are talking about his entire career. he's been good...not great. just like kobe.

they both take too many shots and they both miss horribly often. and they both shoot a little over 30%. neither are great in these situations.

but you can't admit that because you are a biased stan.:applause:

[Hulk Hogan]

and nobody would claim lebron to be playing well in these situations. he's been awful actually.

if we are just talking about this season, Lebron has been really bad. if we are talking about his entire career. he's been good...not great. just like kobe.

they both take too many shots and they both miss horribly often. and they both shoot a little over 30%. neither are great in these situations.

but you can't admit that because you are a biased stan.:applause:

No I'm not biased. I'm saying Kobe is easily better than Lebron in those situations. He has taken more and made more.

Anyway, a biased stan is someone who think Jordan has only missed 25 game-winning shot because of a commercial on tv. :facepalm

Something that is logically IMPOSSIBLE...
Think about it, a goto player like Jordan taking only 53 of those shots in his entire career. And his stans and kobe haters alike actually believe it. :roll: :roll:

Then when the truth comes out of his actually attempts. His stans get mad. They are the true biased fan. :confusedshrug:

[Scholar]

This list is so fake it doesn't even pretend it's not.
Apart from what the others mentioned about the fake numbers, where is the list of Horry's and James' game winners? I'm pretty sure neither James nor Horry have that many. Are we to believe that the all-time leaders are only active players (and Jordan)? If not, why isn't this list indicating the period of "research"? Why is this supposed top-5 trying to make a joke by mentioning Frye? Is mentioning 5 real players that difficult, so they decided to add 4 real and a joke? Isn't there any other player ever who had 1-1 or 2-2 tries? Hell, is it even legit that Frye never in the past even attempted a game-winner?

:roll:

[ginobli2311]

No I'm not biased. I'm saying Kobe is easily better than Lebron in those situations. He has taken more and made more.

Anyway, a biased stan is someone who think Jordan has only missed 25 game-winning shot because of a commercial on tv. :facepalm

Something that is logically IMPOSSIBLE...
Think about it, a goto player like Jordan taking only 53 of those shots in his entire career. And his stans and kobe haters alike actually believe it. :roll: :roll:

Then when the truth comes out of his actually attempts. His stans get mad. They are the true biased fan. :confusedshrug:

but you have no evidence to make that claim. you are just offering an opinion.

lebron is on pace to take and make more. so again....all you have is an opinion based on nothing.

as for jordan, i never said we know. but until something concrete comes out, i'm not going to pretend like we know his numbers. you don't. you just made up numbers.

but we do have the facts for current players and every single game played for all the top guys since 1996. we also have the playoff numbers.

and the fact remains that kobe is slightly above average in the regular season and slightly below average in the playoffs.

your assertion that he's clearly the best just gets destroyed. :no:

[Hulk Hogan]

This list is so fake it doesn't even pretend it's not.
Apart from what the others mentioned about the fake numbers, where is the list of Horry's and James' game winners? I'm pretty sure neither James nor Horry have that many. Are we to believe that the all-time leaders are only active players (and Jordan)? If not, why isn't this list indicating the period of "research"? Why is this supposed top-5 trying to make a joke by mentioning Frye? Is mentioning 5 real players that difficult, so they decided to add 4 real and a joke? Isn't there any other player ever who had 1-1 or 2-2 tries? Hell, is it even legit that Frye never in the past even attempted a game-winner?

THis list is actually real. It was posted on the article about Channing Frye game winners. That is why it has Frye on there.

If you check the correlation with ESPN's game-tying and winning shot attempts and make. You will see it is accurate.

[ginobli2311]

THis list is actually real. It was posted on the article about Channing Frye game winners. That is why it has Frye on there.

If you check the correlation with ESPN's game-tying and winning shot attempts and make. You will see it is accurate.
:facepalm

so false. wow......you are awful hulk.

[Hulk Hogan]

but you have no evidence to make that claim. you are just offering an opinion.

lebron is on pace to take and make more. so again....all you have is an opinion based on nothing.

as for jordan, i never said we know. but until something concrete comes out, i'm not going to pretend like we know his numbers. you don't. you just made up numbers.

but we do have the facts for current players and every single game played for all the top guys since 1996. we also have the playoff numbers.

and the fact remains that kobe is slightly above average in the regular season and slightly below average in the playoffs.

your assertion that he's clearly the best just gets destroyed. :no:

On Game-Winning Attempts and Make only!

Kobe Bryant: 29-71, 40.8%
Lebron James: 21-67, 31.3%

I rather give the ball to Kobe to take a last shot if my life depended on it. Rather than Lebron!

Lebron the last three years is 6 for 27 on game winning and tying shots.
Wade is 6 for 28. (from ESPN)

Yes I rather take Kobe.
Also The fact that Jordan has only made 27 or 28 GW tells you the type of percentage he would have even if we didn't know. But we do and its is accurate.
It has Kobe's accurately and Lebron's accurately aswell.

[ginobli2311]

On Game-Winning Attempts and Make only!

Kobe Bryant: 29-71, 40.8%
Lebron James: 21-67, 31.3%

I rather give the ball to Kobe to take a last shot if my life depended on it. Rather than Lebron!

Lebron the last three years is 6 for 27 on game winning and tying shots.
Wade is 6 for 28. (from ESPN)

Yes I rather take Kobe.
Also The fact that Jordan has only made 27 or 28 GW tells you the type of percentage he would have even if we didn't know. But we do and its is accurate.
It has Kobe's accurately and Lebron's accurately aswell.

please link to evidence. you haven't done that yet. where is the evidence?

you are just pasting over what a random poster said on a different website.

:rockon:

[Psileas]

:roll:

Meaning?


THis list is actually real. It was posted on the article about Channing Frye game winners. That is why it has Frye on there.

If you check the correlation with ESPN's game-tying and winning shot attempts and make. You will see it is accurate.

I'll be waiting for the links. If something like this is true, the whole web will be flooded with these numbers within a few days. I don't see this happening, but just for fun I'll wait.

[Psileas]

Here's what I get now for Kobe, btw:

http://www.google.gr/#hl=el&source=hp&biw=1422&bih=648&q=Kobe+Bryant:+29-71%2C+40.8%25+frye&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&fp=b57e5c5055184c7f

I call this nothing.

[Simple Jack]

But Lebron has made less and has less percentage? :confusedshrug:
Lebron has also missed 3 game-winning attempts this season.
He has also missed 2 game-tying attempts this season.

:facepalm

You guys remember the thread Hulk made claiming LeBron being a good passer is a myth?

[ukplayer4]

lol...another case of kobe stans wanting less information. same shit different day.

kobe stans want to narrow the criteria and make any stat so limited that its worthless.





this.

[Poochymama]

Why is this guy not banned? Are we going to say it's ok to just make up numbers and post them as facts?

I guess it doesn't really matter though. Ban's are so easy to get around(even IP bans) that it's a joke really.

[Hulk Hogan]

please link to evidence. you haven't done that yet. where is the evidence?

you are just pasting over what a random poster said on a different website.

:rockon:

Well I checked his 09-10 season and I found this.
Which tells me that statistics is pretty accurate.

24 seconds left with the ball, tied or trailing by 2 or less with the game on the line.

Lebron in 09-10 was 4 for 12(33%).
Lebron in 10-11 is 0 for 3.

Which adds up to 4 for 15 (26%).
I haven't done his 08-09 or 07-08 yet.
But its pretty accurate. I will do it anyway later on.
Same for Kobe, Melo and Wade.


LeBron James misses layup (Chi .vs Bulls November 5, 2009)
LeBron James misses 25-foot three pointer (Cleveland vs. Memphis Grizzlies December 8, 2009)
LeBron James makes two point shot (Cleveland vs. Memphis Grizzlies December 8, 2009)
LeBron James makes layup (Cleveland vs. Memphis Grizzlies December 8, 2009)
LeBron James misses 30-foot three point jumper (Cleveland vs. Memphis Grizzlies December 8, 2009)
LeBron James misses 22-foot jumper (Cavs vs. Kings, December 23, 2009)
LeBron James misses three point jumper (Cavs vs. Denver, February 18, 2010 )
LeBron James misses 28-foot three point jumper (Cavs vs. Denver, February 18, 2010 )
Dwyane Wade blocks LeBron James's 8-foot jumper (Cavs vs. Miami, January 25, 2010)
LeBron James makes driving layup (Cavs vs. Toronto, )
LeBron James makes layup (Mo Williams assists)( cavs vs bucks , March 31, 2010)
LeBron James misses 26-foot three point jumper (Cavs vs Boston, April 4, 2010)


Its worth noting that most of Lebron's makes comes from layups.

[Hulk Hogan]

I'll be waiting for the links. If something like this is true, the whole web will be flooded with these numbers within a few days. I don't see this happening, but just for fun I'll wait.

Because People don't want it out there.
Because it would disprove their notion going on right now that Kobe isn't clutch...
Plus the notion that Jordan has only taken 53 clutch shots in his entire career and is 50% when shooting them.. :roll:

It defies statistical logic and only a moron would believe it.
But don't worry, I will prove all these stats to be right by myself and will provide source to it!

[ginobli2311]

Well I checked his 09-10 season and I found this.
Which tells me that statistics is pretty accurate.

24 seconds left with the ball, tied or trailing by 2 or less with the game on the line.

Lebron in 09-10 was 4 for 12(33%).
Lebron in 10-11 is 0 for 3.

Which adds up to 4 for 15 (26%).
I haven't done his 08-09 or 07-08 yet.
But its pretty accurate. I will do it anyway later on.
Same for Kobe, Melo and Wade.



Its worth noting that most of Lebron's makes comes from layups.


Hulk.

ESPN already did this for all of these guys entire careers. you are using the exact same criteria they did.

honestly....are you saying your findings will be different than ESPN?

[tpols]

Because People don't want it out there.
Because it would disprove their notion going on that Kobe isn't clutch...

But don't worry, I will prove all these stats to be right by myself and will provide source to it!
Gino(the only obsessive and consistent kobe hater in these threads or any thread relating to kobe for that matter), is not saying kobe isn't clutch. He has admitted to him being a great player in the clutch.. it's just that he has to throw in a few jabs while he says it.

Well kobe is a great clutch player, but guys like dirk, melo and paul were all better... You see he makes a positive statement to reassure you and keep you in the debate, and then he immediately goes back to talking stupid..

I heard a few days ago that kobe shot 60+% and scored in the double digits in the 4th quarters of the lakers famous perfect playoff run in 01(while shaq was shooting in the 30%tile).. Kobe was the clutch go-to guy for that dynasty and he closed out so many games for them.. Kobe has been hitting clutch shots his whole career and has been the elite player and guy who handles the ball in crunchtime through HUNDREDS of playoff games and 5 championships. We're talking about the closer for two separate dynasties as compared to a guy[dirk] who has never won anything and has had his team signifigantly underperform in the playoffs in multiple years(the same can't be said for kobe, his good teams always make the finals and his terrible teams always make the playoffs), a guy who has won FIVE playoff games in his whole career[paul], and a guy who has escaped the first round only ONE time, despite having very, very good teams behind him and a very good coach.

In the playoffs where it matters, none of those guys are as good as kobe at closing out games..

[Basketball Dirk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l10L-Ac38z8

[ginobli2311]

Gino(the only obsessive and consistent kobe hater in these threads or any thread relating to kobe for that matter), is not saying kobe isn't clutch. He has admitted to him being a great player in the clutch.. it's just that he has to throw in a few jabs while he says it.

Well kobe is a great clutch player, but guys like dirk, melo and paul were all better... You see he makes a positive statement to reassure you and keep you in the debate, and then he immediately goes back to talking stupid..

I heard a few days ago that kobe shot 60+% and scored in the double digits in the 4th quarters of the lakers famous perfect playoff run in 01(while shaq was shooting in the 30%tile).. Kobe was the clutch go-to guy for that dynasty and he closed out so many games for them.. Kobe has been hitting clutch shots his whole career and has been the elite player and guy who handles the ball in crunchtime through HUNDREDS of playoff games and 5 championships. We're talking about the closer for two separate dynasties as compared to a guy[dirk] who has never won anything and has had his team signifigantly underperform in the playoffs in multiple years(the same can't be said for kobe, his good teams always make the finals and his terrible teams always make the playoffs), a guy who has won FIVE playoff games in his whole career[paul], and a guy who has escaped the first round only ONE time, despite having very, very good teams behind him and a very good coach.

In the playoffs where it matters, none of those guys are as good as kobe at closing out games..


we are talking about two wildly different things.

i am taking about game winning situations.

you are talking about kobe's 4th qtr play in the playoffs. kobe's 4th qtr play in the playoffs throughout his career (i'm guessing here as i don't have all the information) has to rank as top ten all time or better.

its not a jab. its reality. i consider kobe clutch. i consider kobe very good in game winning situations. but he's not any better than a handful of other guys currently playing. the facts are there. you just choose to ignore them.

if you want to have a discussion about kobe's overall play late in close playoff games i'm all for it.

we just need his stats and his team's production stats. if we have that, i'm happy to enter into a conversation.

i do know, that the clutch playoff stats compiled since 05 favor lebron over kobe. but kobe comes in 2nd best in the entire league.

so again. if we are discussing game winners, then i seen no reason to say kobe is the best.

if we are discussing overall play in the playoffs in the 4th qtrs, I consider kobe one of the best ever.

[Basketball Dirk]

In the playoffs where it matters, none of those guys are as good as kobe at closing out games..

I find this ironic because Kobe missed both attempts last year in the playoffs. One is on the link in my post above.

[ginobli2311]

so if you want an overall kobe discussion:

he's 6-22 for his career in the playoffs on game winners:

http://chasing23.com/2011/02/the-myth-of-playoff-kobe/

here our his elimination game performances:

http://elgee35.wordpress.com/2010/12/20/clutch-or-choker-kobe-bryant-vs-karl-malone-in-elimination-games/

career game 7s:

Kobe career game 7

[tpols]

I find this ironic because Kobe missed both attempts last year in the playoffs. One is in the video above.
I'm not just talking about gamewinning attempts, I'm talking about 'clutch' which is defined as playing under any type of pressure at the end of games to win..

Did you watch that suns series? Kobe absolutely closed that series out in the fourth quarters.. I don't remember what the lead was in G6 but the suns were in striking distance and then kobe hit a 20ft fadeaway and slapped gentry on the ass afterwards and sent him back to his hotel.

[tpols]

[QUOTE=ginobli2311]so if you want an overall kobe discussion:

he's 6-22 for his career in the playoffs on game winners:

http://chasing23.com/2011/02/the-myth-of-playoff-kobe/

here our his elimination game performances:

http://elgee35.wordpress.com/2010/12/20/clutch-or-choker-kobe-bryant-vs-karl-malone-in-elimination-games/

career game 7s:

Kobe career game 7

[ginobli2311]

I'm not just talking about gamewinning attempts, I'm talking about 'clutch' which is defined as playing under any type of pressure at the end of games to win..

Did you watch that suns series? Kobe absolutely closed that series out in the fourth quarters.. I don't remember what the lead was in G6 but the suns were in striking distance and then kobe hit a 20ft fadeaway and slapped gentry on the ass afterwards and sent him back to his hotel.

but nobody would deny anything you say above. the difference, is that other players have done similar things late in playoff games.

you have a preference for kobe. so you are biased. when kobe makes a great 20 foot fadeaway shot, you find that more impressive than dirk doing that. so you are biased, just like we all are. so we need some type of metric.

because ultimately when you are shown the data, you will respond with rings. and that is fine, but then you are talking about the lakers as a team and not kobe the individual.

so its a pretty difficult process. i posted a ton of information above on exactly what you are talking about. i hope you take the time to read it.

[ginobli2311]

First off, from a scoring standpoint, 3 out of 5 of those were good scoring games.. IDK his other stats but those don't look that bad..

Someone post kobe's game 6 stats again. They're amazing.

Keep cherrypicking gino:oldlol:

i'm just posting a ton of information. by all means...post his game 6 stats. i want more information. the more the better.

i'm not even saying kobe played bad in all of those game 7's at all. i'm just giving you the data. thats all.

[branslowski]

Gino proving more and more that he really has never watched any past Laker games...Just searching stats....Dumbass..:oldlol:

[ginobli2311]

Gino proving more and more that he really has never watched any past Laker games...Just searching stats....Dumbass..:oldlol:

branslowski proving more and more that he didn't watch the lakers play because he thinks stats are biased against kobe.

ROFL...stats remember all the airballs and horrid decisions and terrible plays mate.

It would be the same thing as me posting videos of each terrible play. they all happened.

dumbass.

[tpols]

i'm just posting a ton of information. by all means...post his game 6 stats. i want more information. the more the better.

i'm not even saying kobe played bad in all of those game 7's at all. i'm just giving you the data. thats all.
Stop acting like you're pulling out general data..:oldlol:

If a person were to read this post, they would think kobe was terrible in clutch situations. But you yourself just admitted he's a top ten closer in the HISTORY of the game.. clearly some things must be being left out right?:roll:

You have only quoted two articles.. one that says kobe is no more clutch than karl malone, and one called chasing23.com which notoriously finds ways to cherrypick stats and parameters to diminish kobe because the jordan stans that run the site hate him because he is always being compared to jordan(because they had similar styles).

Of course you didn't post data from game 5s or game 6s, despite them being just as pivotal in any tight series because that would be inconvenient to your agenda..

[ginobli2311]

Stop acting like you're pulling out general data..:oldlol:

If a person were to read this post, they would think kobe was terrible in clutch situations. But you yourself just admitted he's a top ten closer in the HISTORY of the game.. clearly some things must be being left out right?:roll:

You have only quoted two articles.. one that says kobe is no more clutch than karl malone, and one called chasing23.com which notoriously finds ways to cherrypick stats and parameters to diminish kobe because the jordan stans that run the site hate him because he is always being compared to jordan(because they had similar styles).

Of course you didn't post data from game 5s or game 6s, despite them being just as pivotal in any tight series because that would be inconvenient to your agenda..


the clutch playoff numbers have kobe as the 2nd best clutch playoff performer since 2004. how is that showing he's bad?

he's made 6 playoff game winners. more than anyone in the league currently.

his team's perform very well in close games in the playoffs. again...how is that showing he's bad.

he's just not clearly the best. he's over-rated a bit by people like you that remember the shot against the suns but forget the airball in game 5. or the ariball against the suns in 2006 to win the series.

so again. you are biased. your favorite player is kobe. so when he makes a big shot, it resonates more with you than lebron or melo or dirk.

a perfect example of this is that fact that somehow lebron is getting the label of being unable to make game winning shots by kobe stans. but the facts destroy this notion. lebron is on pace to take and make more than kobe and already has 5 playoff game winners for his career. kobe has only 6.

you see? you are biased. until you admit that then there can never be a reasonable discussion.

i am biased about dirk. i believe he is the most clutch guy in the league easily. but i can't prove that, and the numbers don't support me, so i don't make bold claims and then pretend like the stats somehow are biased against dirk...its just a silly notion.

[tpols]

the clutch playoff numbers have kobe as the 2nd best clutch playoff performer since 2004. how is that showing he's bad?

he's made 6 playoff game winners. more than anyone in the league currently.

his team's perform very well in close games in the playoffs. again...how is that showing he's bad.

he's just not clearly the best. he's over-rated a bit by people like you that remember the shot against the suns but forget the airball in game 5. or the ariball against the suns in 2006 to win the series.

so again. you are biased. your favorite player is kobe. so when he makes a big shot, it resonates more with you than lebron or melo or dirk.

a perfect example of this is that fact that somehow lebron is getting the label of being unable to make game winning shots by kobe stans. but the facts destroy this notion. lebron is on pace to take and make more than kobe and already has 5 playoff game winners for his career. kobe has only 6.

you see? you are biased. until you admit that then there can never be a reasonable discussion.

i am biased about dirk. i believe he is the most clutch guy in the league easily. but i can't prove that, and the numbers don't support me, so i don't make bold claims and then pretend like the stats somehow are biased against dirk...its just a silly notion.
You aren't just biased about dirk..

Do you not realize your own hatred for kobe bryant and his 'stans'. It's borderline paranioa. EVERY single kobe thread will have you interject with things to diminish him. EVERY single one.

It's to the point where if I see a thread with ANY reference to the words 'clutch', 'kobe', or 'lebron' and it is longer than 5 pages I can be 95% confident it is you dragging the thread out talking about kobe(oh what do you know, take a look at this thread:oldlol: ). IfI'm biased towards kobe than I don't know what the fvck you would be classified as. We'd have to invent a new word for it.

And I've never said lebron wasn't clutch(and if I did in a GT I was clearly trolling you and all the heat bandwagoners)..lebron is a pretty clutch dude.

[ginobli2311]

Stop acting like you're pulling out general data..:oldlol:

If a person were to read this post, they would think kobe was terrible in clutch situations. But you yourself just admitted he's a top ten closer in the HISTORY of the game.. clearly some things must be being left out right?:roll:

You have only quoted two articles.. one that says kobe is no more clutch than karl malone, and one called chasing23.com which notoriously finds ways to cherrypick stats and parameters to diminish kobe because the jordan stans that run the site hate him because he is always being compared to jordan(because they had similar styles).

Of course you didn't post data from game 5s or game 6s, despite them being just as pivotal in any tight series because that would be inconvenient to your agenda..

you see. this is your problem. you are now making the definition of "clutch" extremely broad. at this point, it might as well just be who the better player overall is.

we can't start sitting here saying a shot made with 10 minutes to go in the 4th qtr is extremely clutch. sure, it can, but that definition just gets way out of proportion to the discussion.

if we do that, then we need to include guys like duncan and kg and shaq and hakeem and kareem in these conversations. because those guys were making clutch plays in many key moments in 4th qtrs on both ends in ways that kobe or lebron or dirk don't do.

so it has to at least be some reasonable definition. otherwise, clutch does not exist outside the parameters of a normal game.

and if that is your assertion, that is fine, i'm cool with that....but then you can't turn around and say kobe is more clutch than player x.....because you have basically asserted that clutch does not exist.

[ginobli2311]

You aren't just biased about dirk..

Do you not realize your own hatred for kobe bryant and his 'stans'. It's borderline paranioa. EVERY single kobe thread will have you interject with things to diminish him. EVERY single one.

It's to the point where if I see a thread with ANY reference to the words 'clutch', 'kobe', or 'lebron' and it is longer than 5 pages I can be 95% confident it is you dragging the thread out talking about kobe(oh what do you know, take a look at this thread:oldlol: ). IfI'm biased towards kobe than I don't know what the fvck you would be classified as. We'd have to invent a new word for it.

And I've never said lebron wasn't clutch(and if I did in a GT I was clearly trolling you and all the heat bandwagoners)..lebron is a pretty clutch dude.

you are in this thread. do you want to have a discussion or not? why are you attacking me?

how is that doing anything positive. i'm a reasonable person and debater on here. you are not. you just attack me over and over again.

to what end? its not going to do anything.

if you want to have a legit discussion. i'll be right here. i'm responding to the thread started by the liar Hulk that is now claiming that ESPN's data team is biased against kobe.

Really funny stuff. If you don't like these threads, don't participate. If you do, come with some well thought out posts and please refrain from attackig posters.
:cheers:

[Hulk Hogan]

Hulk.

ESPN already did this for all of these guys entire careers. you are using the exact same criteria they did.

honestly....are you saying your findings will be different than ESPN?

Abbort's premise was that Kobe is acclaimed the king of clutch, best closer in the game, etc. Then he proceeds to discuss how Kobe airballed in the clutch, in his rookie year.

But wait a minute, when did anyone call rookie kobe or call young kobe king of clutch or the best closer in the game.

The whole article was wrong from the start is completely fraudulent and biased.

In-fact it was just 1-2 years ago that the phrase "best closer in the game" was coined for Kobe. Now stat geeks all over the world want to take shots at him by digging up his career statistics and acting like the phrase was meant to be based on his entire career.

I didn't see anyone calling Kobe the best or king of clutch in his rookie years. 98,99, 00, 01, 02, etc...

I have nothing against the facts and the stats, I have everything against how they were presented.

The facts remain that when you use the standard for 24 seconds left ( the past few seasons, Kobe is the king of clutch.)

Again, I have nothing against career numbers.

Read this article: http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2011/1/28/1961684/how-to-be-statistically-biased-henry-abbott

Secondly, disprove to stupid statments I hear from Jordan fans...
Kobe is 36 of 115 and Jordan is 27 of 53..:facepalm

First of all, if they weren't a moron they would notice something is wrong with those stats, how could jordan only have 53 attempts.

Second of all, if they weren't biased, they would take it into context because the articles about Jordans 53 attempt are only based on game winning attempts not game winning and game typing attempts. Though they are wrong because they just took a statement from a commercial and made it his attempts.

when you look at shot usage, the amount of close games and compare them between today's superstars. You will find out there is no way in hell he would have 53 attempts. When you also consider that with the amount of game winnners he has, you could predict his percentage accurate as in the high 20s and low 30s.

[tpols]

you are in this thread. do you want to have a discussion or not? why are you attacking me?

how is that doing anything positive. i'm a reasonable person and debater on here. you are not. you just attack me over and over again.

to what end? its not going to do anything.

if you want to have a legit discussion. i'll be right here. i'm responding to the thread started by the liar Hulk that is now claiming that ESPN's data team is biased against kobe.

Really funny stuff. If you don't like these threads, don't participate. If you do, come with some well thought out posts and please refrain from attackig posters.
:cheers:
To quote the infamous gino, Sorry mate, I am merely presenting the facts..

You point out my bias for kobe, and you deny your own for him..

I'm sorry if you feel I have assaulted you by revealing the sad truth of this situation..:confusedshrug:

[SinJackal]

TOP 5 GAME WINNING SHOOTERS AND THEIR TOTAL AND %!

Kobe Bryant: 29-71, 40.8% (Leads NBA as of now 2011)
Michael Jordan: 27-74, 36.5%
Robert Horry: 25-68, 36.7%
Lebron James: 21-67, 31.3%
Channing Frye: 2-2, 100% (as of Feb. 27 and Feb. 28)

Those stats are obviously fake. Your "source" is some annonymous poster on some weak ass blog. Pathetic.



I did some more interesting research on this and according to 82 games: http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

The active gamewinning leaders as of 2003 to 2009 were/are:

Lebron James - 17 of 50 (34% FG) and 14 freethrows
Vince Carter - 16 of 51 (31% FG) and 10 freethrows
Ray Allen - 15 of 39 (38% FG) and 4 freethrows
Kobe Bryant - 14 of 56 (25% FG) and 12 freethrows

Kindof mindbogling, if Kobe is 29 out of 71 right now for his entire career that means he made 12 out of 15 gamewinners during 1996-2002 and 2009-2010 which is kindof hard to believe according to me, not that that he made 12 out 15, but that he took only 15 gamewinning shots during 7 years?

And if Lebron is 21 out of 67 right now, that means he in only 1-2 years made 4 out of 17 gamewinning shots, 2 more gamewinning shot attempts than Kobe took during 7 years, rather fishy!

Hulk Hogan's stats were obviously fake. His "source" is some annonymous poster on a hangtime blog with no source of his own.

12 of 15 is obviously bs. Kobe airballed 3 game winning attempts as a rookie. Does that mean he was 12-12 between then and 2003? Obviously not. It wouldn't take much time to find a ton of Kobe misses from 1996-2003. The stats are clearly fake.

Kobe is actually something like 31 for 119 or something close to that on game winner attempts. The guy makes more than anyone else in the league now, but he takes and misses way more than anyone else too. That is Kobe Bryant in a nutshell. Makes the most, but also takes the most and misses the most.

As usual, Kobe fans should stick to solely talking about his total makes, and do their best to pretend that his shooting% doesn't matter. Nobody is going to believe Kobe has the best game winning shooting % because he obviously doesn't. Huge fail of a myth.

[ginobli2311]

Abbort's premise was that Kobe is acclaimed the king of clutch, best closer in the game, etc. Then he proceeds to discuss how Kobe airballed in the clutch, in his rookie year.

But wait a minute, when did anyone call rookie kobe or call young kobe king of clutch or the best closer in the game.

The whole article was wrong from the start is completely fraudulent and biased.

In-fact it was just 1-2 years ago that the phrase "best closer in the game" was coined for Kobe. Now stat geeks all over the world want to take shots at him by digging up his career statistics and acting like the phrase was meant to be based on his entire career.

I didn't see anyone calling Kobe the best or king of clutch in his rookie years. 98,99, 00, 01, 02, etc...

I have nothing against the facts and the stats, I have everything against how they were presented.

The facts remain that when you use the standard for 24 seconds left ( the past few seasons, Kobe is the king of clutch.)

Again, I have nothing against career numbers.

Read this article: http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2011/1/28/1961684/how-to-be-statistically-biased-henry-abbott

Secondly, disprove to stupid statments I hear from Jordan fans...
Kobe is 36 of 115 and Jordan is 27 of 53..:facepalm

First of all, if they weren't a moron they would notice something is wrong with those stats, how could jordan only have 53 attempts.

Second of all, if they weren't biased, they would take it into context because the articles about Jordans 53 attempt are only based on game winning attempts not game winning and game typing attempts. Though they are wrong because they just took a statement from a commercial and made it his attempts.

when you look at shot usage, the amount of close games and compare them between today's superstars. You will find out there is no way in hell he would have 53 attempts. When you also consider that with the amount of game winnners he has, you could predict his percentage accurate as in the high 20s and low 30s.

and i'm down with all of that.

we simply don't know jordan's numbers. maybe we will some day. if we ever do, my offer still stands to you that jordan will have better numbers and i'll give you ten to one odds on a maximum of a 100 dollar bet for you.

so you would risk 100 to win 1k.

over the last few years? in the regular season i think its easily melo that wins the crown of game winners. he's just been amazing. kobe has to be a close 2nd.

in the playoffs? its easily lebron that has made the most game winners at the highest rate.

[Hulk Hogan]

and i'm down with all of that.

we simply don't know jordan's numbers. maybe we will some day. if we ever do, my offer still stands to you that jordan will have better numbers and i'll give you ten to one odds on a maximum of a 100 dollar bet for you.

so you would risk 100 to win 1k.

over the last few years? in the regular season i think its easily melo that wins the crown of game winners. he's just been amazing. kobe has to be a close 2nd.

in the playoffs? its easily lebron that has made the most game winners at the highest rate.

How is Melo better when in the last 3 years kobe is 12 for 25? That is 48%.
What is Melo's? Idk but I will find out.
I will have to cross check kobe's.

but In the article I told you to read.

http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2011/1/28/1961684/how-to-be-statistically-biased-henry-abbott


Instead, the data set used for his argument is just a wee bit out of date. Let me fill in the blanks. Since the beginning of 2009, Kobe Bryant is 11 for 22 in those same "big" shot situations. He's also got three assists in that time period, which is a higher ratio of assist to FGA ratio than LeBron James had in the initial study.

[ginobli2311]

To quote the infamous gino, Sorry mate, I am merely presenting the facts..

You point out my bias for kobe, and you deny your own for him..

I'm sorry if you feel I have assaulted you by revealing the sad truth of this situation..:confusedshrug:

i don't get it.

i am totally biased. i see kobe in a different way than you do. i see his forced shots and airballs and bad decisions along with all the great plays.

i want more information. please, post all of kobe's closeout game stats. i know he's one of the best ever at that.

you, on the other hand, come in here to try and downplay all the studies and information. why? why do you not want to know how kobe performs against elite defenses vs how he performs against bad defenses? one of the links i gave you above goes into this.

why don't you want to know how kobe does in elimination games? why?

shouldn't you want more information? i don't get it. honestly, i'm not trying to be mean, but it seems like you and your stans just want to hold onto these great memories of kobe making a bunch of big shots and ignore all the times he's cost his team games by missing and making dumb plays.

on the other hand, you want to ignore all the big shots and plays made by other players, and only focus in on their failures.

its really weird dude.

[ginobli2311]

How is Melo better when in the last 3 years kobe is 12 for 25? That is 48%.
What is Melo's? Idk but I will find out.
I will have to cross check kobe's.

but In the article I told you to read.

http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2011/1/28/1961684/how-to-be-statistically-biased-henry-abbott

oh. if we are using the last three years then it has to be kobe because of how great he was in 2009. so yea, for the regular season over the last 3 years it kobe, followed by dirk/melo/lebron probably. not sure the order. i bet melo is 2nd.

for the playoffs over the last three years, i'm not sure who it is. probably lebron or dirk or ray allen.

i prefer i bit more of a sample size than just three years, but i'm not arguing with you at all about your findings using your parameters.

[Hulk Hogan]

Those stats are obviously fake. Your "source" is some annonymous poster on some weak ass blog. Pathetic.




Hulk Hogan's stats were obviously fake. His "source" is some annonymous poster on a hangtime blog with no source of his own.

12 of 15 is obviously bs. Kobe airballed 3 game winning attempts as a rookie. Does that mean he was 12-12 between then and 2003? Obviously not. It wouldn't take much time to find a ton of Kobe misses from 1996-2003. The stats are clearly fake.

Kobe is actually something like 31 for 119 or something close to that on game winner attempts. The guy makes more than anyone else in the league now, but he takes and misses way more than anyone else too. That is Kobe Bryant in a nutshell. Makes the most, but also takes the most and misses the most.

As usual, Kobe fans should stick to solely talking about his total makes, and do their best to pretend that his shooting% doesn't matter. Nobody is going to believe Kobe has the best game winning shooting % because he obviously doesn't. Huge fail of a myth.

LOL @ dude. You are exactly the morons I have been talking about.
Did you look at 82games parameters at all?


Game Winning Shot Opportunity = 24 seconds or less left in the game, team with the ball is either tied or down by 1 to 2 points.

Obviously though this definition means a shot may not actually be a game winner -- it may only tie a game (if down two points) or it may allow enough time for the opponents to get a game winning shot of their own. Still it seems a reasonable compromise.

That metric is called game winning/tying shots attempt.
The metric of the statistics in the opening post is about GAME WINNING SHOTS ONLY!


Kobe is actually something like 31 for 119 or something close to that on game winner attempts.

You are a bigger fool than I thought.
How can Kobe be 31 for 119 when ESPN has him for 36 for 115.
:facepalm
Plus their metric is for game-winnning PLUS tying shots made and attempted.

Plus the airballs vs utah or whatever doesn't fit the parameters.
Again you prove to be a moron!

[Hulk Hogan]

and i'm down with all of that.

we simply don't know jordan's numbers. maybe we will some day. if we ever do, my offer still stands to you that jordan will have better numbers and i'll give you ten to one odds on a maximum of a 100 dollar bet for you.

so you would risk 100 to win 1k.

over the last few years? in the regular season i think its easily melo that wins the crown of game winners. he's just been amazing. kobe has to be a close 2nd.

in the playoffs? its easily lebron that has made the most game winners at the highest rate.

But my exact point is that. When you take everything into consideration.
Jordan's percentage would be right at Kobe's and Lebron's percentage.

Why? Because we already know how many game winners he has made. So when you take everything into consideration, his percentage would be around the 30s.

This can be easily proved.

[Poochymama]

LOL @ dude. You are exactly the morons I have been talking about.
Did you look at 82games parameters at all?



That metric is called game winning/tying shots attempt.
The metric of the statistics in the opening post is about GAME WINNING SHOTS ONLY!



You are a bigger fool than I thought.
How can Kobe be 31 for 119 when ESPN has him for 36 for 115.
:facepalm
Plus their metric is for game-winnning PLUS tying shots made and attempted.

Plus the airballs vs utah or whatever doesn't fit the parameters.
Again you prove to be a moron!


I think most of us understand that,but also realize that none of us actually believe these made up numbers(except maybe other biased kobe fans like tpols).

Why are you calling people out for being slightly off on their facts(he even said "something like" indicatinng he was somewhat guessing.), when you clearly just made up a bunch of stats and tried to pass them off as facts, citing some "anonymous" blog comment.:rolleyes:

[ginobli2311]

LOL @ dude. You are exactly the morons I have been talking about.
Did you look at 82games parameters at all?



That metric is called game winning/tying shots attempt.
The metric of the statistics in the opening post is about GAME WINNING SHOTS ONLY!



You are a bigger fool than I thought.
How can Kobe be 31 for 119 when ESPN has him for 36 for 115.
:facepalm
Plus their metric is for game-winnning PLUS tying shots made and attempted.

Plus the airballs vs utah or whatever doesn't fit the parameters.
Again you prove to be a moron!


Hulk, all anyone wants is accurate information that can be verified from a solid source like ESPN.

a random poster on a forum just doesn't have the cred to post numbers and for us to take them seriously.

they may be accurate, but i don't know how he could know jordan's numbers when people for years have been trying to find them.

lastly, when doing any statistical analysis, you want the parameters and sample size and time frame to be as large as possible without going overboard.

this is why i much prefer the ESPN metric for game winners than just straight game winners. the sample size is largely reduced and becomes a far too situational thing.

same for time frames. i have no doubt that kobe has been the best on game winners in the regular season the last 3 years, i just think that is an extremely limited sample size to look at when he's taken around 120 for his career and you are focusing on 25 or so.

but as long as you clarify your criteria and back up your assertions, you won't get any backlash from most posters.

you will, however, get backlash when you try to repost a random person's comments as fact on here.

[AlphaWolf24]

i don't get it.

i am totally biased. i see Michael Jordan in a different way than you do. i see his forced shots and airballs and bad decisions along with all the great plays.

i want more information. please, post all of Jordan's closeout game stats. i know he's one of the best ever at that.

you, on the other hand, come in here to try and downplay all the studies and information. why? why do you not want to know how Jordan performs against elite defenses vs how he performs against bad defenses? one of the links i gave you above goes into this.

why don't you want to know how Jordan does in elimination games against Elite teams of the 80's? why?

shouldn't you want more information? i don't get it. honestly, i'm not trying to be mean, but it seems like you and your stans just want to hold onto these great memories of MJ making a bunch of big shots and ignore all the times he's cost his team games by missing and making dumb plays.

on the other hand, you want to ignore all the big shots and plays made by other players, and only focus in on their failures.

its really weird dude.


fixed......

[ginobli2311]

But my exact point is that. When you take everything into consideration.
Jordan's percentage would be right at Kobe's and Lebron's percentage.

Why? Because we already know how many game winners he has made. So when you take everything into consideration, his percentage would be around the 30s.

This can be easily proved.

how? you don't have the play by plays or video from games in the mid 80s.

we also don't know how many game winners he had using the new definition of 24 seconds.

do you have the video or play by plays of all of jordan's games?

[SinJackal]

LOL @ dude. You are exactly the morons I have been talking about.
Did you look at 82games parameters at all?



That metric is called game winning/tying shots attempt.
The metric of the statistics in the opening post is about GAME WINNING SHOTS ONLY!



You are a bigger fool than I thought.
How can Kobe be 31 for 119 when ESPN has him for 36 for 115.
:facepalm
Plus their metric is for game-winnning PLUS tying shots made and attempted.

Plus the airballs vs utah or whatever doesn't fit the parameters.
Again you prove to be a moron!

Posting a bunch of crap calling everyone fools doesn't remove the fact that your stats are from some random post from an annonymous poster on someone's shitty blog with no source to it.

You're the biggest fool in this thread for thinking those were accurate stats. The guy clearly made them up. You are so desperate to "prove" that Kobe is the most clutch player, that you frantically copied those stats and made a thread about it to say, "I told you so", before thinking about how much of a dumbass you'd look like when everyone saw what your "source" was.

I read the post where you got those stats, it doesn't say it's just game winners and not game tyers too.

This is the exact post that you got the stats from.



A.C. says:
March 1, 2011 at 5:40 pm
To all the Heat, LA, and Suns fans
TOP 5 GAME WINNING SHOOTERS AND THEIR TOTAL AND %
Kobe Bryant=29-71, 40.8% (Leads NBA as of now 2011)
Michael Jordan=27-74, 36.5%
Robert Horry=25-68, 36.7%
Lebron James=21-67, 31.3%
Channing Frye=2-2, 100% (as of Feb. 27 and Feb. 28)

Interestingly enough, that post was made less than 8 minutes before you made this thread on ISH. You probably posted that on that blog yourself, then posted here a few minutes later using that as your "source". And that "source", doesn't even specifiy that it excludes game tying shots.


You've been exposed. Now gtfo.

[AlphaWolf24]

how? you don't have the play by plays or video from games in the mid 80s.

we also don't know how many game winners he had using the new definition of 24 seconds.

do you have the video or play by plays of all of jordan's games?


Jordan took Ballhogging to whole new level in the mid 80's..and failed to deliver in the clutch many times over....the numbers are probably really really close

[ginobli2311]

fixed......

i'm not stating my opinion as fact.

if ESPN came out with a study on MJ's game winners and they were not great. I'd simply say:

"wow, i wouldn't have thought that, clearly MJ wasn't as good in game winning situations as me and others has though or perceived"

"just shows you how biased we all are and how perception can be far different from reality"

that is what i would say.

here is what kobe stans say when the above did happen:

"Henry Abcawk. What a ****ing retard, What a ****ing kobe hater" "Kobe is clearly the best.....5 rings and counting" "Kobe doesn't care about fg%...he just takes shots and doesn't care about stats" "kobe do what kobe do"
:facepalm

[STATUTORY]

how? you don't have the play by plays or video from games in the mid 80s.

we also don't know how many game winners he had using the new definition of 24 seconds.

do you have the video or play by plays of all of jordan's games?

:facepalm

you are not getting Mr. Hogan's point at all. We know how many made gamewinners MJ has, and we know he probably has had the same number of opportunities as Kobe and Lebron so we can extrapolate what his percentages actually is.

which is not that great

[ginobli2311]

:facepalm

you are not getting Mr. Hogan's point at all. We know how many made gamewinners MJ has, and we know he probably has had the same number of opportunities as Kobe and Lebron so we can extrapolate what his percentages actually is.

which is not that great

we don't know how many game winners he has using this metric dude. you aren't getting it.

we also don't know how many normal game winners he has unless a reliable source has said so.

please link to the evidence.

[Hulk Hogan]

Posting a bunch of crap calling everyone fools doesn't remove the fact that your stats are from some random post from an annonymous poster on someone's shitty blog with no source to it.

You're the biggest fool in this thread for thinking those were accurate stats. The guy clearly made them up. You are so desperate to "prove" that Kobe is the most clutch player, that you frantically copied those stats and made a thread about it to say, "I told you so", before thinking about how much of a dumbass you'd look like when everyone saw what your "source" was.

I read the post where you got those stats, it doesn't say it's just game winners and not game tyers too.

This is the exact post that you got the stats from.




Interestingly enough, that post was made less than 8 minutes before you made this thread on ISH. You probably posted that on that blog yourself, then posted here a few minutes later using that as your "source". And that "source", doesn't even specifiy that it excludes game tying shots.


You've been exposed. Now gtfo.
:facepalm

Actually like I said, I will prove all the stats... I will keep updating this thread until I have them all.

I just have to get Melo's, lebron's and kobe's stats for the past 3 years from now(this season making it 4) and then I will look at their game winning shot attempts ONLY.

Like I said, You don't have to believe it. I was just explaining it to you. You came here to disprove it with wrong notions. I told you 82games are using different parameters. Now you came back mad and now making false claims.

Anyway, you don't have to believe it yet. I will prove it.

[Hulk Hogan]

we don't know how many game winners he has using this metric dude. you aren't getting it.

we also don't know how many normal game winners he has unless a reliable source has said so.

please link to the evidence.

Using the standard metric. We can determine his success rate based on the amount of game winners he has made. This is why I want to confirm Kobe's, lebron's and Wade's game winning attempts. (the regular standard not the new.)

[ginobli2311]

:facepalm

Actually like I said, I will prove all the stats... I will keep updating this thread until I have them all.

I just have to get Melo's, lebron's and kobe's stats for the past 3 years from now(this season making it 4) and then I will look at their game winning shot attempts ONLY.

Like I said, You don't have to believe. I was just explain it to you. You came here to disprove it with wrong notions. I told you the 82games are using different parameters. Now you come back mad and want to make false claims.

Anyway, you don't have to believe it yet. I will prove it.


but you can't verify the jordan stats. that is your problem.

and if you are using a different parameter, by all means. do it.

but of course, understand that you are trying to limit the scope of the stats to fit your agenda.

why not do it for the entire careers of each player. that seems to be the most fair way of doing it.

but you don't want it to be fair. you want it to be limited. and that is your problem.

[ginobli2311]

Using the standard metric. We can determine his success rate based on the amount of game winners he has made. This is why I want to confirm Kobe's, lebron's and Wade's game winning attempts. (the regular standard not the new.)

no you can't.

you don't know exactly how many game winners jordan had according to the ESPN criteria.

Hell, you don't even know how many regular game winners he had.

Do you have video or play by plays of every jordan game ever?

if not, then you absolutely can't determine anything.

[SinJackal]

:facepalm

Actually like I said, I will prove all the stats... I will keep updating this thread until I have them all.

I just have to get Melo's, lebron's and kobe's stats for the past 3 years from now(this season making it 4) and then I will look at their game winning shot attempts ONLY.

Like I said, You don't have to believe it. I was just explaining it to you. You came here to disprove it with wrong notions. I told you 82games are using different parameters. Now you came back mad and now making false claims.

Anyway, you don't have to believe it yet. I will prove it.

So your "source" thus far, is yourself. And now you're seeking to "prove" the fake stats you just pulled out of your ass.

http://*******.se/pics/482.jpg

Nothing you post from this point forward will be taken seriously. You're a liar who makes up stats.

[AlphaWolf24]

i'm not stating my opinion as fact.

if ESPN came out with a study on MJ's game winners and they were not great. I'd simply say:

"wow, i wouldn't have thought that, clearly MJ wasn't as good in game winning situations as me and others has though or perceived"

"just shows you how biased we all are and how perception can be far different from reality"

that is what i would say.

here is what kobe stans say when the above did happen:

"Henry Abcawk. What a ****ing retard, What a ****ing kobe hater" "Kobe is clearly the best.....5 rings and counting" "Kobe doesn't care about fg%...he just takes shots and doesn't care about stats" "kobe do what kobe do"
:facepalm


The problem is MJ played in a different era when talking about media coverage and internet access.

NBA players get micro analyzed on a whole different level then back in 1984'
If the internet existed back when MJ was Shot Jacksing on epic proportions while continuously Losing in the playoff's, it would have been just as it is today.

But because it wasn't as analyzed and most fans didn't have access to 24 hour basketball forums....perception was a lot more influential then reality (especially compared to today)


But in the end...Perception is there and should be looked at.....Jordan was perceived as a great player (who was a ballhogg) that couldn't make those around him "better" ....or he wasn't great enough to elevate his team to a championship.

was it the truth?...Maybe? at the time, but that is what fueled him....he wanted to prove his doubters wrong...and he did.....more then any player of his generation.....that in my opinion is what made him special...He reversed his percieved weakness and made it his strength.

Perception is reality in a sense...it's up to the individual to change it.

[Hulk Hogan]

but you can't verify the jordan stats. that is your problem.

and if you are using a different parameter, by all means. do it.

but of course, understand that you are trying to limit the scope of the stats to fit your agenda.

why not do it for the entire careers of each player. that seems to be the most fair way of doing it.

but you don't want it to be fair. you want it to be limited. and that is your problem.

You are right, I can't verify jordan's stats. But I can accurately predict and prove it.
The key being that we know the amount of game winners he has made.

Secondly, I'm not limiting any scope to fit any agenda and yes. I'm using the entire career of each player. I do want to be fair, and that is why I'm doing this. I want a fair and balanced conclusion.

[Melo Screwed Us]

do people really believe this computer geek's fake stats? go be useful and get me free league pass

[Hulk Hogan]

Nothing you post from this point forward will be taken seriously. You're a liar who makes up stats.

NO THAT STAT ISN'T MINE!
I HAVE TOLD YOU THIS TIME AND TIME AGAIN!

Why the fcuk would I post a fake statistics and then go ahead and try to prove it... :banghead:

[ginobli2311]

You are right, I can't verify jordan's stats. But I can accurately predict and prove it.
The key being that we know the amount of game winners he has made.

Secondly, I'n not limiting any scope to fit any agenda and yes. I'm using the entire career of each player. I do want to be fair, and that is why I'm doing this. I want a fair and balanced conclusion.

where is the verified list of all jordan shots made with the 24 seconds or less criteria?

where is the list of his game winners. if you know this, please post it. how many game winners does jordan have? and back them all up please.

[ginobli2311]

You are right, I can't verify jordan's stats. But I can accurately predict and prove it.
The key being that we know the amount of game winners he has made.

Secondly, I'm not limiting any scope to fit any agenda and yes. I'm using the entire career of each player. I do want to be fair, and that is why I'm doing this. I want a fair and balanced conclusion.

you said you were only doing three years.

espn already did their entire careers. so what is the point of you doing it.

are you claiming espn lied?

[Melo Screwed Us]

here's a compilation of stats i just made in end-of-game situations:

kwame brown: 65-130 (50%!)
michael olowakandi: 58-119 (48.7%)
charles smith: 41-100 (41%)
nick anderson: 40-100 (40%)

of course i have no proof though. so you just have to take my word for it.

and like the op, i have no plans on verifying it or providing any kind of evidence.

[Hulk Hogan]

you said you were only doing three years.

espn already did their entire careers. so what is the point of you doing it.

are you claiming espn lied?

ESPN's parameters contained game-winnning and game tying shots.
I'm only doing game winnning because it gives me the ability to predict Jordan's gw attempts.



where is the verified list of all jordan shots made with the 24 seconds or less criteria?



I don't have that and I'm not looking for it. I'm only looking at game winners and atempts under 24 seconds.



where is the list of his game winners. if you know this, please post it. how many game winners does jordan have? and back them all up please.


"Houston Mitchell of The Los Angeles Times researched the number of game-winning shots that Jordan had made in his NBA career. Mitchell discovered that Jordan had made 22 game-winners, and add three more from '97-98 -- culminating with his championship-winner in Game 6 of the Finals -- for a total of 25. Twenty-four were in the last 10 seconds of games (one was with 22 seconds left) and eight were at the buzzer. And those are only the NBA game-winning shots"

Nba.com has him at 25, but they are missing the ones from the wizards.
Here is a good list for Jordan's...though Kobe's list is outdated.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=165164

So from that list, Jordan has 22 game winning field goals..

[madmax]

here's a compilation of stats i just made in end-of-game situations:

kwame brown: 65-130 (50%!)
michael olowakandi: 58-119 (48.7%)
charles smith: 41-100 (41%)
nick anderson: 40-100 (40%)

of course i have no proof though. so you just have to take my word for it.

and like the op, i have no plans on verifying it or providing any kind of evidence.
:D :lol
this Hulk Hogan fella comes off as a very insecure and desperate individual. I doubt his idol Kobe even cares a bit about him defending his pride so much

[ginobli2311]

ESPN's parameters contained game-winnning and game tying shots.
I'm only doing game winnning because it gives me the ability to predict Jordan's gw attempts.




I don't have that and I'm not looking for it. I'm only looking at game winners and atempts under 24 seconds.





Nba.com has him at 25, but they are missing the ones from the wizards.
Here is a good list for Jordan's...though Kobe's list is outdated.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=165164

So from that list, Jordan has 22 game winning field goals..


so you are only using shots that won the game. not tied the game or anything.

so jordan has around 28 or so game winners according to various sources.

ok. i just think its silly to project his attempts based on other players. just look at melo. he's made a ton of game winners on a relatively small number of attempts compared to guys like kobe or lebron. same for dirk.

but i'll be interested to see what you come up with.

[SinJackal]

NO THAT STAT ISN'T MINE!
I HAVE TOLD YOU THIS TIME AND TIME AGAIN!

Why the fcuk would I post a fake statistics and then go ahead and try to prove it... :banghead:

Because you want your dream of Kobe being the best clutch scorer to be right? It's called pseudo science. It isn't new.

Even if you were to post stats, nobody will believe them since you just made up some fake ass stats just now. That would be like me saying T-Mac shoots 60% in the clutch and was 60-100 with game winners. Now I'm going to prove it!. . .derr, by posting some more numbers that aren't verified.

Trust me, you won't find anything on the net proving that Kobe's career game winning shots are exactly what you posted they were. We all know you made them up. Quit trying to "prove" your fake stats to be accurate. No one will believe any shit you post on this since you've already tried posting fake stats once.

[SinJackal]

so you are only using shots that won the game. not tied the game or anything.

so jordan has around 28 or so game winners according to various sources.

ok. i just think its silly to project his attempts based on other players. just look at melo. he's made a ton of game winners on a relatively small number of attempts compared to guys like kobe or lebron. same for dirk.

but i'll be interested to see what you come up with.

3 of the shots on the Kobe list were game tying shots. So he's including Kobe's game tying shots in Kobe's game winners, while using an incomplete list of Jordan's game winners, THEN excuding his game tying shots, but not Kobe's.

He's also using a random poster's post as his source rather than a reputable journalist. Again.

[necya]

haha this forum makes me laugh everytime.

[az00m]

http://rlv.zcache.com/img/imt-prd/pd-217952235693455182/isz-m/at-238560305421145726/realview.jpg?urbanword_txt=talking%20out%20of%20yo ur%20ass&urbanimage_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.urbandictionary.co m%2Fproducts.image.php%3Fdefid%3D770212%26revision %3Df983bae7e3a7392981efa2ad8f743a8ed780cd8e

http://tbohiphop.net/UserFiles/images/videos/vlcsnap_0564010.jpg

[Hulk Hogan]

Because you want your dream of Kobe being the best clutch scorer to be right? It's called pseudo science. It isn't new.

Even if you were to post stats, nobody will believe them since you just made up some fake ass stats just now. That would be like me saying T-Mac shoots 60% in the clutch and was 60-100 with game winners. Now I'm going to prove it!. . .derr, by posting some more numbers that aren't verified.

Trust me, you won't find anything on the net proving that Kobe's career game winning shots are exactly what you posted they were. We all know you made them up. Quit trying to "prove" your fake stats to be accurate. No one will believe any shit you post on this since you've already tried posting fake stats once.

Lebron in 09-10 was 4 for 12(33%).


LeBron James misses layup (Chi .vs Bulls November 5, 2009)
LeBron James misses 25-foot three pointer (Cleveland vs. Memphis Grizzlies December 8, 2009)
LeBron James makes two point shot (Cleveland vs. Memphis Grizzlies December 8, 2009)
LeBron James makes layup (Cleveland vs. Memphis Grizzlies December 8, 2009)
LeBron James misses 30-foot three point jumper (Cleveland vs. Memphis Grizzlies December 8, 2009)
LeBron James misses 22-foot jumper (Cavs vs. Kings, December 23, 2009)
LeBron James misses three point jumper (Cavs vs. Denver, February 18, 2010 )
LeBron James misses 28-foot three point jumper (Cavs vs. Denver, February 18, 2010 )
Dwyane Wade blocks LeBron James's 8-foot jumper (Cavs vs. Miami, January 25, 2010)
LeBron James makes driving layup (Cavs vs. Toronto, )
LeBron James makes layup (Mo Williams assists)( cavs vs bucks , March 31, 2010)
LeBron James misses 26-foot three point jumper (Cavs vs Boston, April 4, 2010)



I just posted stats and proved it with evidence. :confusedshrug:

[Hulk Hogan]

3 of the shots on the Kobe list were game tying shots. So he's including Kobe's game tying shots in Kobe's game winners, while using an incomplete list of Jordan's game winners, THEN excuding his game tying shots, but not Kobe's.

He's also using a random poster's post as his source rather than a reputable journalist. Again.

WTF are you talking about?:wtf:
Calm your shit damn.

I didn't even make that list.
And not I'm not counting any game tier.

[Melo Screwed Us]

WTF are you talking about?:wtf:
Calm your shit damn.

I didn't even make that list.
And not I'm not count any game winner.
what difference does it make when you're basing your whole argument on it? that's like reporters blaming sources for bad info. didn't have to use it. but keep backpedaling computer geek