This is why Pierce is the most underrated SuperStar of this Era

[MayCeltics]

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/11/piercevskobe.jpg

[BlackWhiteGreen]

Excuses in 3..2..1..

[lefthook00]

Underrated star. Not superstar.

[ThaSwagg3r]

Paul Pierce was never a superstar. So your point is moot.

[BoxOutBOXOUT]

Pierce isn't a superstar. He's a star. A superstar is someone like Kobe or LeBron. Paul Pierce is nowhere near on the same level. The only superstar on the Celtics is KG, and even he's past his superstar days.

[KB2clutch]

only the win column is relevant

[XxSMSxX]

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[Hittin_Shots]

only the win column is relevant

Which is more than can be said about 90% of the garbage you speak...

[techno]

lol 1 ring lol

[L.Kizzle]

Paul Pierce was never a superstar Paul Pierce is like the Alex Englishes, Hal Greers of years past. All-Star Hall of Famers, but not Jerry West, Larry Birds, who where in the same eras of Alex and Hal.

[ballup]

Paul Pierce is the poor man's Tim Duncan. Both players represent how much we have become an ESPN highlight reel culture. And if you don't play that kind game, nobody knows who you are.
Except that Duncan get his due props in his waning years and Pierce doesn't.

[Walduś]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=jordami01&p2=bryanko01

[t-rex]

Except that Duncan get his due props in his waning years and Pierce doesn't.


Good post. But Pierce isn't in his waning years yet. When he is, I hope he gets his due.

[KB2clutch]

pierce isnt even that good, if he didnt get lucky with kg and allen, he basically be vince carter but much worse in terms of rankings and career

[t-rex]

lol 1 ring lol


You could have a fair point. But if he gets a second ring this year (a legit possibility)

[Duranthebest]

Paul Pierce was never a superstar Paul Pierce is like the Alex Englishes, Hal Greers of years past. All-Star Hall of Famers, but not Jerry West, Larry Birds, who where in the same eras of Alex and Hal.

He's more of a superstar than Ray Allen .

[PHaYze]

What about Ben Wallace?

[L.Kizzle]

He's more of a superstar than Ray Allen .
He can't be more of a superstar cause that would make him a superstar. They are the same level of star status.

[BoxOutBOXOUT]

[QUOTE=t-rex]You could have a fair point. But if he gets a second ring this year (a legit possibility)

[PHaYze]

I've heard some people say Pierce>Melo:lol

Overrated if you ask me

[O BaByShaQ]

pierce is like an old, less-athletic, more mexican/baby looking version of kobe with less skills. And I dont think much of kobe so that is saying somthing.

[Hittin_Shots]

So Kobe has his 5 rings discredited because they were earned with Shaq and Gasol, but a guy wins a couple of rings with a cast of all-stars on his team and he gets full credit? LOL. The Kobe hate is ridiculous.

The Kobe hate is warranted by the amount of Kobe fans that make him look bad. I like Kobe but there are some true knobjockey kobe fans on here. Kobe is better but he's not a god as they tell themselves. Kobe has had a better cast at times over his career can u argue that? and atm they both have good casts and they both are doing well individually and their teams. But you have ppl like ne1 and kobeclutch or whatever that have no idea what they're on about half the time.

[ballerz]

pierce is defiantly underrated. people acting like ray and kg only reason he got a ring when infact he is the celtics second leading scorer and before the big three joined together he had no good supporting cast before them.

[The Dream]

pierce isnt even that good, if he didnt get lucky with kg and allen, he basically be vince carter but much worse in terms of rankings and career

not true. Pierce is good, very good. Despite never being the most athletic player (carter) or gifted with size or speed, he has always managed to be one of the more skilled players in the league. While he certaintly isn't a superstar (due to his somewhat average athleticism and lack of media hype ) he plays at a higher level than most allstars. And as far as being lucky with getting allen & kg, pierce was able to capitalize with his talented teamates as opposed to carter or tmac.

[PP34Deuce]

pierce is like an old, less-athletic, more mexican/baby looking version of kobe with less skills. And I dont think much of kobe so that is saying somthing.

U know for you to say Kobe is better than Pierce, ID agree with you. but to say less skills..wow...

From a skill/fundamental standpoint.. Pierce is one of the most skilled in the league...

Midrange game,rebounding,passing,positioning..etc..

[mcrd101]

i may be interpreting the original post wrong, but it seems that kobe is the better player, which would be almost impossible to refute, but pierce has stats that are near kobe's numbers. thus, if kobe is an all star, then why isn't pierce considered one of the top in the game like kobe?

i dont understand how people are saying "he's a star but not an all star." his over 20,000 points should be enough to prove he's a superstar.

and to say "well it's easy for him to get a ring when he has a superstar team." then why aren't the miami heat doing as good as the celtics were in their first season with their big 3? Especially with the heat's big 3 being more impressive on paper than the celtics big 3.

[DixieNourmous]

Pierce overrates himself...
2008 after the NBA finals "Im the best player in the world"

He is a superstar in Boston.
I do not even think he is a lock for HOF


Dont get me wrong,, he is a great player.

[Scholar]

I do not even think he is a lock for HOF



GTFO


I'm a Lakers fan for life but I respect Pierce's game. The guy is definitely going to be a Hall-of-Famer.

[DixieNourmous]

GTFO


I'm a Lakers fan for life but I respect Pierce's game. The guy is definitely going to be a Hall-of-Famer.

100% disagree, he is a Celtic great mostly because of his longevity staying with the team.

But good luck to him.

['Toine=MVP]

pierce is defiantly underrated.

not sure what this means.

[Maniak]

.274 3pt%

Amazing.

[BoxOutBOXOUT]

The Kobe hate is warranted by the amount of Kobe fans that make him look bad. I like Kobe but there are some true knobjockey kobe fans on here. Kobe is better but he's not a god as they tell themselves. Kobe has had a better cast at times over his career can u argue that? and atm they both have good casts and they both are doing well individually and their teams. But you have ppl like ne1 and kobeclutch or whatever that have no idea what they're on about half the time.
A) Hating on Kobe is warranted because of his fans? What does Kobe and his body of work have to do with his fans? By the same token, couldn't you say Pierce-hate is warranted because of the insane Celtic fans riding his nuts and trying to make him out to be an all-time great?

B) Kobe has had a better supporting cast? Who?

KG + Allen + Rondo + rest of Celtics >>> Shaq + rest of Lakers

Even if you overrate Shaq as the most dominant player ever to lace up sneaks, that's still only 1 great player. Who else did Kobe have? D-Fish? Horry? Rick f*ckin' Fox? Come on. Pierce had a guaranteed HOFer in KG, a probable HOFer in Ray Allen, and a very possible future HOFer in Rondo, as well as a great bench.

Those great Laker teams were really top-heavy. You had Kobe & Shaq with a bunch of decent role players. Pierce has 3 seasoned all-stars and likely HOFers in addition to a solid cast of role players. Saying Kobe had the better support is laughable.

[eliteballer]

:facepalm There's not literally one thing Pierce does as good as Kobe, let alone better

[BoxOutBOXOUT]

:facepalm There's not literally one thing Pierce does as good as Kobe, let alone better
Bullsh*t. He could smoke Kobe in a wheelchair race.

[Killbot]

:facepalm There's not literally one thing Pierce does as good as Kobe, let alone better

Uh...there are two things bub.
shoot 3's and rebound better.

[macpierce]

pierce plays at his own pace, he is rather intelligent, even though he acts too much, he is a hall of famer though

[BoxOutBOXOUT]

Uh...there are two things bub.
shoot 3's and rebound better.
He sure didn't rebound better in Game 7 of the Finals last year.

[PP34Deuce]

:facepalm There's not literally one thing Pierce does as good as Kobe, let alone better

Rebounding.
Paul Pierce is a better shooter, can come off screens and shoot more efficient than bryant has.
His footwork is just as good as Kobes..People talk about Kobe post game, but Pierce still has a great post game...hasnt had a need to use it with KG there.
Defensively Paul may not have the lateral ability of Kobe,but his longer wingspan and IQ has led him to make clutch defensive plays...

Even Celtic fans are saying Kobe is better,but we are tired of people acting as if Paul Pierce is not one of the most skillful swingmen in the league... If you look at his highlights from 2005 to now... He still ocasionally dunks on people,still got that step back, flashes the spin move once in a while...has floaters,layups both hands,bank shots,scoop shots,reverses.... fundamental guy

[PP34Deuce]

A) Hating on Kobe is warranted because of his fans? What does Kobe and his body of work have to do with his fans? By the same token, couldn't you say Pierce-hate is warranted because of the insane Celtic fans riding his nuts and trying to make him out to be an all-time great?

B) Kobe has had a better supporting cast? Who?

KG + Allen + Rondo + rest of Celtics >>> Shaq + rest of Lakers

Even if you overrate Shaq as the most dominant player ever to lace up sneaks, that's still only 1 great player. Who else did Kobe have? D-Fish? Horry? Rick f*ckin' Fox? Come on. Pierce had a guaranteed HOFer in KG, a probable HOFer in Ray Allen, and a very possible future HOFer in Rondo, as well as a great bench.

Those great Laker teams were really top-heavy. You had Kobe & Shaq with a bunch of decent role players. Pierce has 3 seasoned all-stars and likely HOFers in addition to a solid cast of role players. Saying Kobe had the better support is laughable.

you know its really sad when fans are willing to underrate the impact of their teams players to "win" an arguement that doesnt really exist.

I didnt see an Overrating Shaq from 2000-2004..I saw a guy who could walk through 25-11 with 2 blocks and drawing enough fouls for a quick kobe to do work.

I saw a prime D fish who was very good defensively,with 3point shot and IQ
I saw an underrated Rick Fox who could post up,shoot the 3,defend 3's great and defend 2's above average.
I saw a Horry who saved you guys 2-3 occasions on big 3's.

Our Celtics have 3 HOF guys true,but a PRime Shaq is worth 2 allens based on his impact in the game to begin with.

Our bench was better,but lets not act like prime Fox,Fisher,and Horry were pushovers.

[NBASTATMAN]

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/11/piercevskobe.jpg



Paul Pierce has always outplayed kobe.. Especially in 2008 finals when he smacked him silly.. Last season they pretty much both played even.. Though Kobe took way more shots.. Paul Pierce is the truth... :applause:


That win and loss column should be alot better on kobe's part since he had shaq for half of his career..

[NBASTATMAN]

:facepalm There's not literally one thing Pierce does as good as Kobe, let alone better


He outplayed kobe with one leg in 2008 finals... By a good margin... He is a better outside shooter..

[PP34Deuce]

To end the thread,, Kobe will end up in his career in the top 7 for greatest player of all time....

Paul Pierce if we win a 2nd championship and he has more contributions than ray...will be in that top 60....

[NBASTATMAN]

To end the thread,, Kobe will end up in his career in the top 7 for greatest player of all time....

Paul Pierce if we win a 2nd championship and he has more contributions than ray...will be in that top 60....


If Kobe played for Boston he would have wound up12- 20th and PP would have wound up 25-30 if he played for LA and Shaq and Phil...

[Bigsmoke]

I do not even think he is a lock for HOF


Dont get me wrong,, he is a great player.

Finals MVP + 9x All Star appearances + career 22ppg = HOFer

[Hittin_Shots]

A) Hating on Kobe is warranted because of his fans? What does Kobe and his body of work have to do with his fans? By the same token, couldn't you say Pierce-hate is warranted because of the insane Celtic fans riding his nuts and trying to make him out to be an all-time great?

B) Kobe has had a better supporting cast? Who?

KG + Allen + Rondo + rest of Celtics >>> Shaq + rest of Lakers

Even if you overrate Shaq as the most dominant player ever to lace up sneaks, that's still only 1 great player. Who else did Kobe have? D-Fish? Horry? Rick f*ckin' Fox? Come on. Pierce had a guaranteed HOFer in KG, a probable HOFer in Ray Allen, and a very possible future HOFer in Rondo, as well as a great bench.

Those great Laker teams were really top-heavy. You had Kobe & Shaq with a bunch of decent role players. Pierce has 3 seasoned all-stars and likely HOFers in addition to a solid cast of role players. Saying Kobe had the better support is laughable.

I clearly meant before their current teams.... Just make up things for your argument guy. And yes hate of a player on a forum is warranted on said forum if it is caused by kobe stans talking shit in the first place.. Does Kobe come on this forum and cry about the people hating him? Only one poster rides Pierces nuts, I don't even kno how the kobe ones have enuff room to fit on kobe'snuts altogether. This thread was in no way saying pierce was better than ur boyfriend kobe, it was comparing him to say that he's underrated...

[JohnnySic]

Paul Pierce will end up top 20-25 in career points and morons will still say he wasn't a superstar, and doesn't belong in the HOF...

Welcome to ISH - where a career role player like Dennis Rodman is somehow a HOF player but soemone like PP isn't. You'll find its a quirky alternate reality. Now pass the hemlock.

http://www.iseesmileys.com/smileys/Anti_Kao/Poison_Drink.gif

[All Net]

Pierce one of the top STARS but never a superstar. A guy who has hardly cracked the top 10 each year can't be considered a superstar.

[LiLharvard]

In response to the title of this thread : No Doubt About It

['Toine=MVP]

Pierce one of the top STARS but never a superstar. A guy who has hardly cracked the top 10 each year can't be considered a superstar.

Yeah over the course of his career, his average ranking is probably around 9th best in the league, but he's never been in the top 5 or 6. Shaq, Duncan, KG, and Kobe were the true superstars. Then Dirk and Nash have to be considered ahead of Pierce.

While others like Iverson, Carter, McGrady, etc have had years where they were ranked ahead of Pierce, their careers are all clearly worse than his, and really Pierce's 3-5 year peak is probably better than all of them as well, if you look past the pure stats.

Among his contemporaries, I'd say Pierce and Kidd are 7/8 in some order. Kidd might have the career advantage right now, and probably the slight peak advantage, so I'd put him 7th for now, but Pierce could pass him with a few more very nice seasons, especially with another championship.

[kNIOKAS]

Pierce one of the top STARS but never a superstar. A guy who has hardly cracked the top 10 each year can't be considered a superstar.
top 10 most marketed... you know better than that

[BIGJEV123]

Paul Pierce is a great player and a future hall of famer. If you score over 20,000 points for the most successful organisation then that alone you should be in the HOF class.

[Christofire]

Paul Pierce has always been underrated and has always been a better player than Vince carter. Pierce before aquiring Ray and KG was one of the league premier scorers, best 4th qtr players and among league leaders in FT attempts per game. He has always been one of teh best rebounders at the 3 and one of the best defenders. He's been one of the better streak 3pt shooters in the league throughout his career and has lead the celtics to the playoffs 4 consecutive seasons with 1 Eastern conference finals appearance(prior to allen and KG). You're right he is not a superstar, just a star because superstardom is more a about media coverage and sports politics than about how good a player really is. I'm a die hard celtic fan and i'd admit that pierce was never the player that bryant is/was but he is/was a darn good player and deserves respect.He will no doubt make ti to the Hall of Fame and will always be the guy that outplayed Kobe bryant on both ends of the floor to win a championship and a Finals MVP.

[Crown&Coke]

Dude, you nailed it. Really, what more needs to be said?

short version, there are a bunch of haters (I myself being one of them)

Although it sickens me to say it, PP is a freaking amazing player. I love his moxy, even though it comes off as arrogant and I hate to see it, but all the good ones have it, heck, even some sorry players have it.

Pierce will go down as one of the greatest Celtics ever, that is all that needs to be said when considering some of the guys who donned that uniform.

I just threw up in my mouth a little :facepalm

[IN-PAX-WE-TRUST]

Pierce has never been a top 10 player in the league. Sure. There are stretches where he can outperform a guy like Kobe, but there isn't a person alive who would start a team with him over Kobe.

[Rnbizzle]

Paul Pierce will end up top 20-25 in career points and morons will still say he wasn't a superstar, and doesn't belong in the HOF...

Welcome to ISH - where a career role player like Dennis Rodman is somehow a HOF player but soemone like PP isn't. You'll find its a quirky alternate reality. Now pass the hemlock.

http://www.iseesmileys.com/smileys/Anti_Kao/Poison_Drink.gif
:applause:

[Nick Young]

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/11/piercevskobe.jpg
Kobe is the most underrated. 5 rings and idiots are comparing him to AI, T-Mac and one ringed Paul Pierce still:facepalm

[L.Kizzle]

Paul Pierce will end up top 20-25 in career points and morons will still say he wasn't a superstar, and doesn't belong in the HOF...

Welcome to ISH - where a career role player like Dennis Rodman is somehow a HOF player but soemone like PP isn't. You'll find its a quirky alternate reality. Now pass the hemlock.

http://www.iseesmileys.com/smileys/Anti_Kao/Poison_Drink.gif
Was Alex English a superstar? No neither is Pierce doesn't mean he's a bad player. English is a hall of famer ...

['Toine=MVP]

Pierce has never been a top 10 player in the league. Sure. There are stretches where he can outperform a guy like Kobe, but there isn't a person alive who would start a team with him over Kobe.

I'd say he was top 10 maybe 8-10 years of his career. But never top 5. Kobe was top 5 for probably the entire 2nd half of his career.

[mcrd101]

I love his moxy, even though it comes off as arrogant and I hate to see it, but all the good ones have it, heck, even some sorry players have it.



summary: some basketball players have attractive "moxy."

[brandowas]

Pierce has never been a top 10 player in the league. Sure. There are stretches where he can outperform a guy like Kobe, but there isn't a person alive who would start a team with him over Kobe.
He absolutely has been a top 10 player for many of his seasons. I understand rings matter, but you must not remember how awful the teams he was on were during his prime. He single handedly made those teams overacheive, it's not his fault he was on bad teams most of his career.

[Droid101]

it's not his fault he was on bad teams most of his career.
Yet we blame Vince Carter for being on bad teams.

Vince Carter is better than Paul Pierce in every way.

[XxSMSxX]

Yet we blame Vince Carter for being on bad teams.

Vince Carter is better than Paul Pierce in every way.


Lol no

[Jacks3]

Kobe was top 5 for more than a decade
FIXED

[brandowas]

Yet we blame Vince Carter for being on bad teams.

Vince Carter is better than Paul Pierce in every way.

Pierce has more heart and clutchness than Carter could ever dream of. Also Carter relied only on athleticism so his game disapeared when that left, plus he is an awful defender.

In 2002 Pierce brought the Celtics to the ECF with Antoine Walker, Kenny Anderson, Eric Williams, and Tony Battie...

['Toine=MVP]

Kobe was top 5 for probably the entire 2nd half of his career.

Fixed again.

[Droid101]

In 2002 Pierce brought the Celtics to the ECF with Antoine Walker, Kenny Anderson, Eric Williams, and Tony Battie...
Don't start with that bunk. Antoine Walker was considered good that year, and I think he was even an All-Star. Don't get into the revisionist history bullshit.

Pierce is a whiny ***** who lucked into two actual superstars. Period.

[Jacks3]

Fixed again.
He was top 5 from 01-05 too though to go along with 06-10.

[PP34Deuce]

Don't start with that bunk. Antoine Walker was considered good that year, and I think he was even an All-Star. Don't get into the revisionist history bullshit.

Pierce is a whiny ***** who lucked into two actual superstars. Period.

I've been a celtic fan way before the BIG 3, and after the Rick Fox days lol....

Antoine Walker was like a great talent who couldnt maintain playing weight,etc...He had a very good post game and the plan was to have an insideout game with Paul. Walker detoriated after 2002...Chucked more than ever,ocassional defense... I liken his impact of the game to Lamar ODumb of the Heat player days...

Paul Pierce was the clear cut best player though..Int he New Jersey series, Scott doubled Paul, not Toine...

Kenny Anderson could run the offense,but was past his prime even at this time.
Eric Williams could D up and shoot the open 3.
Tony Battie just couldnt stay healthy and was robbed of his great athletiscm.
Mccarty was purely a mascot who could make the ocassional big dunk or 3
Delk was an undersized on the downside of his career 3 point shooter with great defensive pressure

certainly not a very talented team yet they made it work, and while Toine contributed with 18-9,Pierce was the one busting 40 point games,and bringing us back to relevance until we tanked....

[magnax1]

Up until 05 Pierce and Kobe were pretty close, though Kobe was obviously better, it's really only since 06 that Kobe has really skyrocketed to a level past what Pierce ever reached.

[brandowas]

Don't start with that bunk. Antoine Walker was considered good that year, and I think he was even an All-Star. Don't get into the revisionist history bullshit.

Pierce is a whiny ***** who lucked into two actual superstars. Period.
Antoine Walker was a ball hogging chucker. Me don't start with that bunk? No sane person would call that lineup a good supporting cast, and he brought them to the ECF.
But you're right Vince Carter is totally better, especially in the playoffs :rolleyes:

[Droid101]

Paul Pierce was the clear cut best player though..Int he New Jersey series, Scott doubled Paul, not Toine...

Kenny Anderson could run the offense,but was past his prime even at this time.
Eric Williams could D up and shoot the open 3.
Tony Battie just couldnt stay healthy and was robbed of his great athletiscm.
Mccarty was purely a mascot who could make the ocassional big dunk or 3
Delk was an undersized on the downside of his career 3 point shooter with great defensive pressure

certainly not a very talented team yet they made it work, and while Toine contributed with 18-9,Pierce was the one busting 40 point games,and bringing us back to relevance until we tanked....
You're like the anti-Bill Simmons (this is a good thing).

Simmons says that Walter McCarty is one of the all-time best full-court-press defenders.

Seriously, google it.

[Droid101]

But you're right Vince Carter is totally better, especially in the playoffs :rolleyes:
Carter has better career playoff averages than Pierce, and that's even taking into account his 33 year old performance when he was the 4th option on Orlando last year. Take that year off, and he's clearly superior to Pierce.

[PP34Deuce]

You're like the anti-Bill Simmons (this is a good thing).

Simmons says that Walter McCarty is one of the all-time best full-court-press defenders.

Seriously, google it.

LOL Tommy Heinsohn used to go "I LOOOVE WALTAHHHHHHH"

Seriously Mccarty was a 6'10 great athlete with no position or skills, he got drafted first round because of how beastly those mid 90's UK basketball teams used to be(Antoine def was a GREAT college player)

He could shoot a 3, and make some nice leaping dunks..Dare i say he was an athletic Scalabrine..Dude is very smart bball wise, and I remmber he did our national Anthem couple times. I wonder where he is....

[brandowas]

Carter has better career playoff averages than Pierce, and that's even taking into account his 33 year old performance when he was the 4th option on Orlando last year. Take that year off, and he's clearly superior to Pierce.
Defense is half the game. Letting whoever you're covering blow by you is not a good performance. And Pierce is clutch as hell while Carter is the opposite

[PP34Deuce]

Carter has better career playoff averages than Pierce, and that's even taking into account his 33 year old performance when he was the 4th option on Orlando last year. Take that year off, and he's clearly superior to Pierce.

Carter was a beast in the playoffs... I always thought Vince Carter was extremely dynamic...could score 40 in the craziest way...

While Paul Pierce had many games where u saw the box score with 25-11-5 and ud wonder how he got those. Paul Pierce is a better offensive skill player than carter ever was and its the reason he can still consistently give you 19-20 ppg.

Paul Pierce is the guy at the basketball court that you may be more athletic then,yet constantly whoops your butt everytime...

[brandowas]

And Pierce is what 1 year younger? It's not Pierce's fault Carter isn't good enough anymore to be a top option

[Droid101]

Defense is half the game. Letting whoever you're covering blow by you is not a good performance. Carter's defense is so underrated. Vince has very long arms and is a crafty player. Paul Pierce falls down a lot.
And Pierce is clutch as hell while Carter is the opposite
Debatable but I don't have many concrete examples.

[PP34Deuce]

Carter's defense is so underrated. Vince has very long arms and is a crafty player. Paul Pierce falls down a lot.
Debatable but I don't have many concrete examples.

Vince from 1998-2005 could D up last second plays for the fact that he could make the athletic Lebron(chase down play) play.

Paul Pierce consistently has made defensive plays. better at steals,positioning, Vince has long arms but so does Paul... I think they both have a 6'11 or 7'0 span

[brandowas]

I don't remember Carter's defense from earlier years, but watching him on the Magic in the playoffs literally anyone who wanted to just went right by Carter with almost no attempt from him to stop them.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Don't start with that bunk. Antoine Walker was considered good that year, and I think he was even an All-Star. Don't get into the revisionist history bullshit.

Pierce is a whiny ***** who lucked into two actual superstars. Period.
Yeah, having your PF shoot 8 threes per game is just awesome. AW was a good player overall but his game had serious flaws. He was a four who couldn't jump and had short arms. He had three point range but wasn't a good shooter. He could rebound, defended his position alright, had good court vision and was capable of volume scoring but that volume scoring wasn't truly good offense. Got nothing on the free throw line. The Pierce/Toine ECF team was lucky to play in a weak EC, and basically overachieved because Pierce was capable of exploding offensively.

Vince Carter is better than Paul Pierce in every way.The Pierce/Carter debate needs to die. Early in their careers, Carter was a little better. at the midpoint of their careers, both had arguments to be made, although Carter showed that he was capable of quitting. And now, as they both approach their last few seasons, Carter is so far behind it's not worth discussing. VC was more athletic but less skilled. Now he's just less skilled. Pierce has had the better career and over these last few seasons the gap just gets wider and wider.

As for your individual statement? It's almost completely backwards. Young Carter (not addressing the current broke-down version) was a better athlete than young Pierce and used his ability to devastating effect. Blew by everybody, leaped up high, threw down hard. But he had no skill advantages over Pierce whatsoever. The only two things he's done in his entire career that Pierce hasn't equalled or exceeded are the ROY and the Dunk Championship. And the Dunk crown doesn't matter. Only people that can't see Pierce's superiority by now are:

1. Stupid Laker fans (possibly you)
2. Obsessed Carter fans

[PP34Deuce]

I don't remember Carter's defense from earlier years, but watching him on the Magic in the playoffs literally anyone who wanted to just went right by Carter with almost no attempt from him to stop them.

Carter should just retire...The guy looks heavier in a bad way in phoenix...Grant Hill is older by 4 years yet looks in better shape than Carter. Vince is a really smart guy in real life, might be time to leave the league.

[Droid101]

1. Stupid Laker fans (possibly you)
2. Obsessed Carter fans
3. Paul Pierce Haters (me)

I prefer my superstar not to fall down every time the opposing player tries to make an offensive move on him.

Oh, right, forgot; Paul Pierce isn't a superstar. He's just a good, star player, nothing more.

[brandowas]

Carter should just retire...The guy looks heavier in a bad way in phoenix...Grant Hill is older by 4 years yet looks in better shape than Carter. Vince is a really smart guy in real life, might be time to leave the league.
I agree, and I was a huge fan of him when I was younger. Not meant as an insult but he just doesn't seem to have a passion for the game, especially at this point. If he's a smart guy he'll be fine and probably be happier retired.

[Real Men Wear Green]

3. Paul Pierce Haters (me)
My bad, I forgot to list idiot trolls.

[Droid101]

But he had no skill advantages over Pierce whatsoever.
He's a better career three point shooter than Pierce (not to mention peak three point shooting percentage in one season), wtf are you snorting, and can I get some?

I would take Vince Carter EVERY YEAR of their respective careers up until the 08-09 season when it became debatable. Then 09-10 Pierce is/was better up to the present.

[Droid101]

My bad, I forgot to list idiot trolls.
If I'm an idiot troll, you're an idiot homer.

I'd rather discuss this with non-Carter fans and non-Celtic fans, because I can't get a straight, honest answer out of you homers.

[Real Men Wear Green]

He's a better career three point shooter than Pierce (not to mention peak three point shooting percentage in one season), wtf are you snorting, and can I get some?37.6% vs. 37%. You're seriously acting like that's important? I don't know what drug causes stupid arguments, but you ought to stop using it.


I would take Vince Carter EVERY YEAR of their respective careers up until the 08-09 season when it became debatable. Then 09-10 Pierce is/was better up to the present.
Yes, well as you've admitted to being a troll your opinion carries little weight.

[Droid101]

37.6% vs. 37%. You're seriously acting like that's important? I don't know what drug causes stupid arguments, but you ought to stop using it. Better is better. .6% is a lot over a loooong career. Not to mention Pierce has taken 400 more three pointers at that lower percentage.



Yes, well as you've admitted to being a troll your opinion carries little weight.
You haven't admitted it yet, but you're a blind homer, so your opinion carries NO weight.

['Toine=MVP]

He was top 5 from 01-05 too though to go along with 06-10.

I don't think he was top 5 in the early 00s. Borderline I guess.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Better is better. .6% is a lot over a loooong career. Not to mention Pierce has taken 400 more three pointers at that lower
So, after everything I wrote, your argument boils down to...0.6%. 400 more threes? You mean, 30 threes per season? Meaning some thing like one more three every three games? And it's actually less than that, as Pierce has played in 39 more contests. Heh.

I'd say that 0.6% is symbolic of your overall relevance.

[Droid101]

So, after everything I wrote, your argument boils down to...0.6%. 400 more threes? You mean, 30 threes per season? Meaning some thing like one more three every three games? And it's actually less than that, as Pierce has played in 39 more contests. Heh.

I'd say that 0.6% is symbolic of your overall relevance.
My argument, using the 0.6%, was in response to your statement: "But he had no skill advantages over Pierce whatsoever."

Clearly, he does (three point shooting). At the least, they are equal, which tears apart YOUR argument that Carter was all athletics, no skill.

You are just as relevant on an internet messageboard. Namely, not relevant at all. It's the internet.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Lol, you win.

[Droid101]

Lol, you win.
I refuse your surrender.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I refuse your surrender.
Well then you can continue this increasingly trivial argument by yourself. Celts are going to play soon, pregame show is already on.

[XxSMSxX]

So, after everything I wrote, your argument boils down to...0.6%. 400 more threes? You mean, 30 threes per season? Meaning some thing like one more three every three games? And it's actually less than that, as Pierce has played in 39 more contests. Heh.

I'd say that 0.6% is symbolic of your overall relevance.

:roll: Now THAT was straight ether

[Funnyfuka]

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/11/piercevskobe.jpg
he s underated cause he s ugly looking, and has a shitty attitude.

[G-Funk]

Pierce = Star

He's in no way a superstar

[olddangerfield]

It's only a 19 game sample, derka derka dur dur

[MayCeltics]

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/11/piercevskobe.jpg

:bowdown:

[Nick Young]

Because before he got his one title (yeah yeah gj good for you) he was considered just a one dimensional me-first selfish chucker.

[Nick Young]

Excuses in 3..2..1..
5 rings>1 ring

[MayCeltics]

5 rings>1 ring



http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4101/4920970629_7fb8758dbc_z.jpg

:roll::roll::roll::roll:

[Nick Young]

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4101/4920970629_7fb8758dbc_z.jpg

:roll::roll::roll::roll:
Shaq has 1 ring without Kobe

Kobe has 2 rings without Shaq and is about to get a third.


Hmmm, I wonder who needed the other more.

[MayCeltics]

Shaq has 1 ring without Kobe

Kobe has 2 rings without Shaq and is about to get a third.


Hmmm, I wonder who needed the other more.


Kobe 6/24 :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Nick Young]

Kobe 6/24 :oldlol: :oldlol:
http://www.regalfly.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Lakers-Kobe-Bryant-2010-NBA-Champion.jpg

http://lakersrepeat.com/cover.jpg
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Mr. Jabbar]

not a superstar. next.

[Tlova]

http://www.regalfly.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Lakers-Kobe-Bryant-2010-NBA-Champion.jpg

http://lakersrepeat.com/cover.jpg
:roll: :roll: :roll:
http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac133/TheAssassinVii/NBA/e17rrc-1.jpg

[MayCeltics]

http://www.regalfly.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Lakers-Kobe-Bryant-2010-NBA-Champion.jpg

http://lakersrepeat.com/cover.jpg
:roll: :roll: :roll:

6/24 :oldlol:

http://rickdaniels17.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/shaq.jpg

[MayCeltics]

http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac133/TheAssassinVii/NBA/e17rrc-1.jpg

:roll: :roll:

[SinJackal]

I don't get how this is relevant. Pierce is a SF, Kobe is a SG. Their "head to head" stats barely matter since they don't guard eachother very often.

Also, Pierce is 8-11 against him. That's pretty crappy.

[JGXEN]

:roll: :roll:
http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac133/TheAssassinVii/NBA/e17rrc-1.jpg

[Nick Young]

^^
Ah yes, Shaq, the man Kobe carried to 3 rings.

Kobe is so swaggin he can shoot 6/24 in game 7 and still win Finals MVP:roll: :roll: :roll:
How many boards did he have that game btw?
http://images.sneakernews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/puppet_t1.jpg

[Tlova]

^^
Ah yes, Shaq, the man Kobe carried to 3 rings.

Kobe is so swaggin he can shoot 6/24 in game 7 and still win Finals MVP:roll: :roll: :roll:
How many boards did he have that game btw?
http://images.sneakernews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/puppet_t1.jpg
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o156/jeffinjoseph/basketball/shaq.jpg

[Nick Young]

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o156/jeffinjoseph/basketball/shaq.jpg

1. the mvp is the guy who has to carry the team late in games

- shaq was on the bench for allot of the endings in the playoffs because of hackashaq
- when have you ever seen shaq hit a game winner
- the leader in fga's ( aka #1 option ) was kobe for 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 )
- kobe had the better wcf's average in 2001 and 2002 and the better overall playoffs in 2001


2. shaq has never done anything as lead dog without an elite kobe

- no mvps
- no championships
- no finals mvps

he averaged 25+ppg/10+reb ( or close to ) from 1992,1993,1994,1995,1996,1997,1998,1999,2005 as lead dog

and still never got it done

3. kobe without shaq as lead dog in just 6 years has

- 1 mvp
- 3 nba finals
- 2 nba championships ( back to back )
- 2 finals mvps


4. kobe is the better defender. in a near 20 year career shaq has NEVER made 1st team all defense

kobe has made it 8 times. ( and atleast 6 of them are undisputable )


5. Kobe was never dumped by a team or made enimys with a team

shaq has been dumped or made enimys with

- orlando
- los angeles
- miami
- phoenix
- cleveland


6. kobe only made enimys with one guy in his career while playing with them.

- shaq

shaq has made enimys with a guy from every team hes played on

- penny
- kobe
- wade
- nash
- lebron


7. kobe never let himself gain 100 pounds of fat, kobe never told his team he wouldnt guard the house if he wasnt fed, kobe never held the owner at gun point for 30 million dollars.

and finally

8. kobe won a championship without a top 250 all time player in pau gasol.

shaq has never won as lead dog without a second option in the top 10 all time.
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

why are we even talking about paul pierce here we should just be talking about the only celtic on the team with more than one ring, the Laker betrayer Shaq

LO has more rings than Pierce ever will, hows that feel kid

[Rose]

I'm damn sure Pau makes the top 125 of all time.

[Tlova]

LO has more rings than Pierce ever will, hows that feel kid
Try Again, this is a pierce thread. Oh the same lakers fans jumping into celtic threads for whatever reason makes me laugh. They're the ones wanting to trade people when there slumping.

enimys with Spelling Please?

[whoartthou]

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/11/piercevskobe.jpg

i knew kobe is not as great as he is advertised.

Either pierce is underrated, or kobe is overrated.

IMHO, pierce could have had similar success as kobe if he was on the same teams as him.

Pierce is clutch as hell, good defender, and his jump shot is MONEY

[whoartthou]

pierce isnt even that good, if he didnt get lucky with kg and allen, he basically be vince carter but much worse in terms of rankings and career


same could have been said about kobe? :confusedshrug:

[whoartthou]

A) Hating on Kobe is warranted because of his fans? What does Kobe and his body of work have to do with his fans? By the same token, couldn't you say Pierce-hate is warranted because of the insane Celtic fans riding his nuts and trying to make him out to be an all-time great?

B) Kobe has had a better supporting cast? Who?

KG + Allen + Rondo + rest of Celtics >>> Shaq + rest of Lakers

Even if you overrate Shaq as the most dominant player ever to lace up sneaks, that's still only 1 great player. Who else did Kobe have? D-Fish? Horry? Rick f*ckin' Fox? Come on. Pierce had a guaranteed HOFer in KG, a probable HOFer in Ray Allen, and a very possible future HOFer in Rondo, as well as a great bench.

Those great Laker teams were really top-heavy. You had Kobe & Shaq with a bunch of decent role players. Pierce has 3 seasoned all-stars and likely HOFers in addition to a solid cast of role players. Saying Kobe had the better support is laughable.
:no:

if it was not for horry/fisher, your beloved kobe would not have 5 rings.

[ballerz]

same could have been said about kobe? :confusedshrug:
:applause:

[Disaprine]

:no:

if it was not for horry/fisher, your beloved kobe would not have 5 rings.
what a ****ing idiot. :lol

[whoartthou]

^^
Ah yes, Shaq, the man Kobe carried to 3 rings.

Kobe is so swaggin he can shoot 6/24 in game 7 and still win Finals MVP:roll: :roll: :roll:
How many boards did he have that game btw?
http://images.sneakernews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/puppet_t1.jpg
:no:

the league would not allow kobe to NOT get finals mvp and have someone like gasol get it. Would make kobe look like a chump

[macpierce]

are we really comparing pierce to kobe??? I mean damn..........................
epic :facepalm

[Nick Young]

:no:

if it was not for horry/fisher, your beloved kobe would not have 5 rings.
If it wasnt for the refs turning Leone Powe into Powe-Whistle one game giving him more freethrows than the entire Lakers team combined Celtics would not have that one title they won 3 years ago, their first in 20 years they so desperately hold up to the world to show that they are kind of relevant again

and if Paul Pierce didn't have Gay-G, Gay Allen and Powe-Whistle he would still only be talked about as a Glenn Robinson underachiever

[whoartthou]

what a ****ing idiot. :lol
Why you so mad? Take fisher/horry out of the equation, and your mamba has like 3 rings?

[whoartthou]

If it wasnt for the refs turning Leone Powe into Powe-Whistle one game giving him more freethrows than the entire Lakers team combined Celtics would not have that one title they won 3 years ago, their first in 20 years they so desperately hold up to the world to show that they are kind of relevant again

and if Paul Pierce didn't have Gay-G, Gay Allen and Powe-Whistle he would still only be talked about as a Glenn Robinson underachiever

Kobe is so fortunate to have had great supporting casts.

He would not have done shit without them. He would be slightly better than vince carter or tracy mcgrady.

[Disaprine]

Why you so mad? Take fisher/horry out of the equation, and your mamba has like 3 rings?
again your a dumbass. :lol

[MayCeltics]

^^
Ah yes, Shaq, the man Kobe carried to 3 rings.

Kobe is so swaggin he can shoot 6/24 in game 7 and still win Finals MVP:roll: :roll: :roll:


way to shut yourself up. You just admit it Kobe wasn't worthy of Finals MVP. David Stern works his magic yet again.

[Tlova]

If it wasnt for the refs turning Leone Powe into Powe-Whistle one game giving him more freethrows than the entire Lakers team combined Celtics would not have that one title they won 3 years ago, their first in 20 years they so desperately hold up to the world to show that they are kind of relevant again

and if Paul Pierce didn't have Gay-G, Gay Allen and Powe-Whistle he would still only be talked about as a Glenn Robinson underachiever
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm269/diki159/epic-fail2.jpg
Kobe had Prime Shaq and played with more talented players (Van Exel, Eddie Jones, Payton, Fisher, Malone, Gasol, Bynum, Artest)
Paul has fu@king antoine walker.

[DixieNourmous]

Pierce is not a "superstar"

He is a star that played with the Celtics since day 1.
His claim to fame is a 1 time finals MVP award where he claimed "Im the greatest in the world"

Yawn
These are his only awards..
Honors
1995 McDonald's All American (http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/mcdonalds.html)
1997-98 NCAA AP All-America (http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/all_america.html) (1st)
1998-99 NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1999.html) All-Rookie (http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/all_rookie.html) (1st)
2001-02 NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2002.html) All-NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/all_league.html) (3rd)
2002-03 NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2003.html) All-NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/all_league.html) (3rd)
2007-08 NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2008.html) All-NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/all_league.html) (3rd)
2008-09 NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2009.html) All-NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/all_league.html) (2nd)

Bird was a superstar

Not trying to be a hater but comeon, he has a good game from time to time and ******gers make threads about "superstar".
Definitely not a HOF lock.


Real Talk

[Replay32]

Pierce is not a "superstar"

He is a star that played with the Celtics since day 1.
His claim to fame is a 1 time finals MVP award where he claimed "Im the greatest in the world"

Yawn
These are his only awards..
Honors
1995 McDonald's All American (http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/mcdonalds.html)
1997-98 NCAA AP All-America (http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/all_america.html) (1st)
1998-99 NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1999.html) All-Rookie (http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/all_rookie.html) (1st)
2001-02 NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2002.html) All-NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/all_league.html) (3rd)
2002-03 NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2003.html) All-NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/all_league.html) (3rd)
2007-08 NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2008.html) All-NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/all_league.html) (3rd)
2008-09 NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2009.html) All-NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/all_league.html) (2nd)

Bird was a superstar

Not trying to be a hater but comeon, he has a good game from time to time and ******gers make threads about "superstar".
Definitely not a HOF lock.


Real Talk
:facepalm