9/11 experiments

[Hazard]

Scientific proof that thermate may have been used to take down the towers. Hard to argue with science, but I'm sure people will still try...
Watch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d5iIoCiI8g&feature=related)

[Rose]

Interesting theory. I've heard about the molten metal before, and I didn't think temps could guess that high with just airline fuel.

and now I know why

[Stuckey]

ya heard that many times, one of the strongest evidence for 9/11 conspiracy

jet fuel burns at 1600, but steel melts at 2400 or something

[RedBlackAttack]

Interesting theory. I've heard about the molten metal before, and I didn't think temps could guess that high with just airline fuel.

and now I know why
It wasn't just as if someone sprinkled jet fuel around the WTC and they collapsed. They were hit head on by f#cking commercial airliners. Those buildings were structurally unsound the moment that those two 757s crashed into them.

The fires were just the icing on the proverbial cake. I can't believe people actually buy into this sh!t.

[Rose]

It wasn't just as if someone sprinkled jet fuel around the WTC and they collapsed. They were hit head on by f#cking commercial airliners. Those buildings were structurally unsound the moment that those two 757s crashed into them.

The fires were just the icing on the proverbial cake. I can't believe people actually buy into this sh!t.
It's not just that they're unstable. It's more than that. But this would spawn off into an entirely different debate that it sounds like you've had before, and don't really care too again.

[IcanzIIravor]

It wasn't just as if someone sprinkled jet fuel around the WTC and they collapsed. They were hit head on by f#cking commercial airliners. Those buildings were structurally unsound the moment that those two 757s crashed into them.

The fires were just the icing on the proverbial cake. I can't believe people actually buy into this sh!t.

Not to mention how long they burned...

[shlver]

Molten aluminum from planes can react with the rust on the steel beams and cause thermite reactions.

[Meticode]

See, I respect this guy in the video. He went out and did his own experiments and he has a lot of good points. But I don't think there is any conspiracy. I just personally feel we cannot predict what's going to happen to a 110 story building that get hits by one of the biggest airliners you can fly on head-on unless you're going to make life-sized replica's of the World Trade Center and fly planes into all these replicas to see what will happen over and over.

[Hawker]

Take a civil engineering class please.

[Meticode]

Take a civil engineering class please.
Who?

[Norcaliblunt]

My concern is not that they went down, it's the way they went down. With only the impact and structure fires it seems they would have toppled or broke into pieces, not imploding and completely pulverizing the core columns. But really who the @#$% knows?

The experiment was interesting.

[miller-time]

It wasn't just as if someone sprinkled jet fuel around the WTC and they collapsed. They were hit head on by f#cking commercial airliners. Those buildings were structurally unsound the moment that those two 757s crashed into them.

The fires were just the icing on the proverbial cake. I can't believe people actually buy into this sh!t.

these videos are just ad-hoc hypotheses. at first they said jet fuel didn't burn hot enough to melt steel and therefore couldn't have brought the buildings down. until it was pointed out to them that it does burn hot enough to weaken the steel by 50%, which would be enough to compromise the structural integrity of the building and cause a collapse. then it was explosives similar to those used by demolition experts that caused the collapse. until it was pointed out that rigging a building of that size over night and unnoticed would be completely freaking impossible. so now i guess we are up to thermite being installed all over the place without anyone noticing. whats next then? teams of men with baseball bats slowling going to work on the steel frame for months on end without anyone noticing?

[Meticode]

these videos are just ad-hoc hypotheses. at first they said jet fuel didn't burn hot enough to melt steel and therefore couldn't have brought the buildings down. until it was pointed out to them that it does burn hot enough to weaken the steel by 50%, which would be enough to compromise the structural integrity of the building and cause a collapse. then it was explosives similar to those used by demolition experts that caused the collapse. until it was pointed out that rigging a building of that size over night and unnoticed would be completely freaking impossible. so now i guess we are up to thermite being installed all over the place without anyone noticing. whats next then? teams of men with baseball bats slowling going to work on the steel frame for months on end without anyone noticing?
:oldlol:

[Patrick Chewing]

http://www.jesseshunting.com/images/god_please_make_it_stop.jpg

[Norcaliblunt]

these videos are just ad-hoc hypotheses. at first they said jet fuel didn't burn hot enough to melt steel and therefore couldn't have brought the buildings down. until it was pointed out to them that it does burn hot enough to weaken the steel by 50%, which would be enough to compromise the structural integrity of the building and cause a collapse. then it was explosives similar to those used by demolition experts that caused the collapse. until it was pointed out that rigging a building of that size over night and unnoticed would be completely freaking impossible. so now i guess we are up to thermite being installed all over the place without anyone noticing. whats next then? teams of men with baseball bats slowling going to work on the steel frame for months on end without anyone noticing?


I see what you are saying, but Islamic fanatic amateur pilots, in caves, with laptops, and box cutters, out witting every homeland security and intelligence agency in the USA, and in other allied countries, to attack the most secure building in the world (the pentagon) seems plausible to you?

The whole thing stinks, from the conspiracy theories to the official story.

[IcanzIIravor]

:oldlol:

You know Dooms will find a post on some paranoid site that lays out that possibility.

[IcanzIIravor]

I see what you are saying, but Islamic fanatic amateur pilots, in caves, with laptops, and box cutters, out witting every homeland security and intelligence agency in the USA, and in other allied countries, to attack the most secure building in the world (the pentagon) seems plausible to you?

The whole thing stinks, from the conspiracy theories to the official story.

Keep in mind though that various agencies had information that if put together could have broken the case, but at the time they where highly competitive and refused to share with each other. I think a closer look will show how it was done and how it clearly was no government conspiracy. Government incompetence yes and I would go so far as to say the 9/11 report looks so suspicious because you had the various agencies scrambling to not look as bad as they looked in the initial days of the attack when they realized how much information each agency actually had.

[RedBlackAttack]

I see what you are saying, but Islamic fanatic amateur pilots, in caves, with laptops, and box cutters, out witting every homeland security and intelligence agency in the USA, and in other allied countries, to attack the most secure building in the world (the pentagon) seems plausible to you?

The whole thing stinks, from the conspiracy theories to the official story.
They got lucky, plain and simple. Even OBL said that the result far exceeded his best expectations. He thought -- best case scenario -- that the planes would knock off the top of the buildings.

Also, keep in mind that there was a 5th hijacker that WAS apprehended at the airport.

It was just a perfect storm of intelligence failures and a bunch of lunatics getting a lot of good fortune.

And, yeah... I do think that it is a lot more plausible than these ludicrous conspiracy theories, mostly because I watched in horror as the planes f#cking crashed into the buildings... And all of the great American tragedies have a segment who thinks it was planned by the government.

As a matter of fact, I used to think that Oswald was a patsy and that there were others involved in the JFK shooting, but these conspiracy theorists are so far out there on this 9-11 thing, it has made me have to re-think ALL of the great conspiracy theories.

[-playmaker-]

they will never stop....ever

even though we have proved the first moon landing was real, there are still people that refuse to believe it...

even though we have proved all bullets that hit JFK came from the exact same location, there are always going to be people that believe there was a 2nd shooter...



the only thing I REALLY hate about the 911 crowd is that with this particular event, it would take 1,000+ people and is BEYOND complex in comparison to the others...

the amount of holes they jump through is never ending...and can always be answered with "that was planted by the powers that be"...

I think that is what drives me insane...at least the moon hoax theory was feasible, and somewhat believable...the 9/11 theory is IMPOSSIBLE...they can't comprehend it...

I am willing to admitt that there are rich men on this planet that pull strings here and there to get what they want...no doubt...but they are still just MEN....humans are only capable of so much....and a mass conspiracy of this magnitude is not one of those things...again, it is IMPOSSIBLE...

1,000+ people can't even get in the same room together...yet we are to believe that 1,000+ HIGHLY SKILLED PROFFESIONALS all got together and preformed this event seamlessly...without saying a peep about it for a decade...it's ridiculous...our government couldn't even cover up the death of ONE MAN...Pat Tillman...

and for what?...there isn't even a decent motive...to occupy Iraq?....well, did you know that we went to war with Iraq in the 90s without buildings falling???....if we are so great at conspiracies, how come we didn't plant WMDs in Iraq to make the world happy???...OH, cause we SUCK AT LIEING...that's right...

[Norcaliblunt]

Keep in mind though that various agencies had information that if put together could have broken the case, but at the time they where highly competitive and refused to share with each other. I think a closer look will show how it was done and how it clearly was no government conspiracy. Government incompetence yes and I would go so far as to say the 9/11 report looks so suspicious because you had the various agencies scrambling to not look as bad as they looked in the initial days of the attack when they realized how much information each agency actually had.

If it is incompetence then that does make the Government and intelligence agencies in a way responsible, and that idea scares me even more, knowing all the money we put into that stuff.

I would not be surprised if inside info was known somewhere down the line. To the extent who knows?

[miller-time]

I see what you are saying, but Islamic fanatic amateur pilots, in caves, with laptops, and box cutters, out witting every homeland security and intelligence agency in the USA, and in other allied countries, to attack the most secure building in the world (the pentagon) seems plausible to you?

The whole thing stinks, from the conspiracy theories to the official story.

i would say that it is possible that people within the intelligence agencies had prior knowledge and even profited from the attacks. i'd even say the government took advantage of the attacks so they could start their oil wars (a sort of faux white flag situation). but i don't think either group orchastrated the attacks, at least to the extent the conspiracy theorists are saying. they may have acted as a mafia wife, but i don't believe they were the direct cause.

[IcanzIIravor]

they will never stop....ever

even though we have proved the first moon landing was real, there are still people that refuse to believe it...

even though we have proved all bullets that hit JFK came from the exact same location, there are always going to be people that believe there was a 2nd shooter...



the only thing I REALLY hate about the 911 crowd is that with this particular event, it would take 1,000+ people and is BEYOND complex in comparison to the others...

the amount of holes they jump through is never ending...and can always be answered with "that was planted by the powers that be"...

I think that is what drives me insane...at least the moon hoax theory was feasible, and somewhat believable...the 9/11 theory is IMPOSSIBLE...they can't comprehend it...

I am willing to admitt that there are rich men on this planet that pull strings here and there to get what they want...no doubt...but they are still just MEN....humans are only capable of so much....and a mass conspiracy of this magnitude is not one of those things...again, it is IMPOSSIBLE...

1,000+ people can't even get in the same room together...yet we are to believe that 1,000+ HIGHLY SKILLED PROFFESIONALS all got together and preformed this event seamlessly...without saying a peep about it for a decade...it's ridiculous...our government couldn't even cover up the death of ONE MAN...Pat Tillman...

and for what?...there isn't even a decent motive...to occupy Iraq?....well, did you know that we went to war with Iraq in the 90s without buildings falling???....if we are so great at conspiracies, how come we didn't plant WMDs in Iraq to make the world happy???...OH, cause we SUCK AT LIEING...that's right...

I think one thing people don't understand as well is how much the intelligence community disliked the Bush administration because President Bush sent in people to the agencies that shook a lot of things up. Many of those sent in didn't have an intelligence background too. By the time I got to the NSA in 2003 there was a palpable dislike there for the administration, so I can imagine how it was at the FBI or CIA. No way any conspiracy would have not been leaked to tarnish the administration. You referenced the Tillman think, but look at the Plame case as well, the yellow cake leaks and all the other leaks leading up to the Iraq invasion. I think some people would rather it be this vast conspiracy than be confronted with government failure and AQ coming up with a brilliant once in a lifetime plan and executing it at the perfect once in a lifetime moment.

[IcanzIIravor]

If it is incompetence then that does make the Government and intelligence agencies in a way responsible, and that idea scares me even more, knowing all the money we put into that stuff.

I would not be surprised if inside info was known somewhere down the line. To the extent who knows?

The amount of intel we get on a daily basis would boggle your mind. The terror attacks that are busted up and stopped that you never hear of dwarf the few you do get to see on tv. Like any government there will be those break downs, especially given the size and the sheer volume of information collected daily let alone yearly.

[RedBlackAttack]

If it is incompetence then that does make the Government and intelligence agencies in a way responsible, and that idea scares me even more, knowing all the money we put into that stuff.

I would not be surprised if inside info was known somewhere down the line. To the extent who knows?
I think this is what scares all conspiracy theorists. They want to believe that our society is perfectly orchestrated and that there is order to everything. Nothing happens without the 'say-so' of the powerful and elite.

The truth is, things are chaotic and we are not to point in human history (and may never be) that random tragedies can be controlled and manipulated as we see fit. When you have people that are willing to die for a cause, virtually anything is possible.

[Norcaliblunt]

i would say that it is possible that people within the intelligence agencies had prior knowledge and even profited from the attacks. i'd even say the government took advantage of the attacks so they could start their oil wars (a sort of faux white flag situation). but i don't think either group orchastrated the attacks, at least to the extent the conspiracy theorists are saying. they may have acted as a mafia wife, but i don't believe they were the direct cause.


I can agree with that, and I do honestly believe conspiracy theorists can lose focus with the staged demolition theory, because it is the hardest to prove with all the evidence gone. They need to just stay concerned with the documented stuff like Operation Northwoods, the War Game exercises, and Bin Ladin's CIA connection.

[Norcaliblunt]

I think this is what scares all conspiracy theorists. They want to believe that our society is perfectly orchestrated and that there is order to everything. Nothing happens without the 'say-so' of the powerful and elite.

The truth is, things are chaotic and we are not to point in human history (and may never be) that random tragedies can be controlled and manipulated as we see fit. When you have people that are willing to die for a cause, virtually anything is possible.


The perfect execution of 911 was not chaotic though, it was perfectly planned whomever was involved. I don't see how Bin Ladin and his crew, or a rogue network within the untied States is any different.

[-playmaker-]

The perfect execution of 911 was not chaotic though, it was perfectly planned whomever was involved. I don't see how Bin Ladin and his crew, or a rogue network within the untied States is any different.
Bin Laden doing it is possible...(and not perfect one plane didn't make it)...infact apparently it is too easy for some people to even believe...

1,000+ goverment workers is impossible...it can't happen cause humans can't do that



^^^ that is really what it comes down to for me...what is possible and what isn't...

[RedBlackAttack]

The perfect execution of 911 was not chaotic though, it was perfectly planned whomever was involved. I don't see how Bin Ladin and his crew, or a rogue network within the untied States is any different.
It was chaotic, though, because it relied on intelligence and security failures virtually across the board (from the flight school to the airports to the FBI/CIA/NIS).

Those guys were leaving hints all over the place. They were no great evil geniuses. Hell, the one hijacker got drunk and began talking about the plan the just before the attacks.

It's just that things don't work as neatly and nicely in real-life as they do in the movies. Our intelligence agencies are completely capable of epic failures and oversights, as are all government agencies.

[-playmaker-]

It was chaotic, though, because it relied on intelligence and security failures virtually across the board (from the flight school to the airports to the FBI/CIA/NIS).

Those guys were leaving hints all over the place. They were no great evil geniuses. Hell, the one hijacker got drunk and began talking about the plan the just before the attacks.

It's just that things don't work as neatly and nicely in real-life as they do in the movies. Our intelligence agencies are completely capable of epic failures and oversights, as are all government agencies.
and they prove it OVER AND OVER AND OVER...

from Katrina to 911 to the Iraq war...when are these conspiracy theorists going to see that our government is composed of ordinary humans that make mistakes constantly...NOT JAMES BOND VILLIANS

[Norcaliblunt]

Bin Laden doing it is possible...(and not perfect one plane didn't make it)...infact apparently it is too easy for some people to even believe...

1,000+ goverment workers is impossible...it can't happen cause humans can't do that



^^^ that is really what it comes down to for me...what is possible and what isn't...


How do explain things like the Manhattan project? That had thousands of people working on it. Truman didn't even know about it until he became President.

I take the opposite view.

The most powerful intelligence agencies with an unlimited amount of resources = possible.

Oppressed religious nuts from the third world = a bit more of a stretch IMO.

[Norcaliblunt]

It was chaotic, though, because it relied on intelligence and security failures virtually across the board (from the flight school to the airports to the FBI/CIA/NIS).

Those guys were leaving hints all over the place. They were no great evil geniuses. Hell, the one hijacker got drunk and began talking about the plan the just before the attacks.

It's just that things don't work as neatly and nicely in real-life as they do in the movies. Our intelligence agencies are completely capable of epic failures and oversights, as are all government agencies.

I honestly read that and you kinda reassured me with conspiracy? LOL!

[-playmaker-]

How do explain things like the Manhattan project? That had thousands of people working on it. Truman didn't even know about it until he became President.

I take the opposite view.

The most powerful intelligence agencies with an unlimited amount of resources = possible.

Oppressed religious nuts from the third world = a bit more of a stretch IMO.
the Manhattan Project can be explained correct?...people TALK about it right?...isn't there a movie or two about it even?...it was NOT kept under wraps...it isn't a secret

neither was Northwoods...WHICH WAS GOING TO KILL FAKE HUMANS HAT DIDN'T EXIST CAUSE OUR GOV DIDN'T WANT TO KILL ANYONE!!!


you are bringing up events that were not kept a secret at all!!!!

[Norcaliblunt]

and they prove it OVER AND OVER AND OVER...

from Katrina to 911 to the Iraq war...when are these conspiracy theorists going to see that our government is composed of ordinary humans that make mistakes constantly...NOT JAMES BOND VILLIANS


Again I take the opposite opinion. When are people gonna realize the Goverment is messing with them. From Vietnam, to 911, to Iraq, etc. etc.

[RedBlackAttack]

How do explain things like the Manhattan project? That had thousands of people working on it. Truman didn't even know about it until he became President.

I take the opposite view.

The most powerful intelligence agencies with an unlimited amount of resources = possible.

Oppressed religious nuts from the third world = a bit more of a stretch IMO.
It might be easier to possibly believe (not really, but for argument's sake) if there weren't eye-witness accounts by the doomed passengers on the planes confirming that they were taken over by Middle Easterners with box cutters. There is pretty much no doubt that Al-Qaeda hijacked those planes and flew them into the buildings.

What does the argument become, then? That the government knew the attacks were coming and wired the building to collapse after they had been hit?

It is just beyond absurd.

[-playmaker-]

IMO Northwoods is an excellent example of why 911 was NOT an inside job...

[Norcaliblunt]

the Manhattan Project can be explained correct?...people TALK about it right?...isn't there a movie or two about it even?...it was NOT kept under wraps...it isn't a secret

neither was Northwoods...WHICH WAS GOING TO KILL FAKE HUMANS HAT DIDN'T EXIST CAUSE OUR GOV DIDN'T WANT TO KILL ANYONE!!!


you are bringing up events that were not kept a secret at all!!!!


Only after it all became declassified.

[-playmaker-]

It might be easier to possibly believe (not really, but for argument's sake) if there weren't eye-witness accounts by the doomed passengers on the planes confirming that they were taken over by Middle Easterners with box cutters. There is pretty much no doubt that Al-Qaeda hijacked those planes and flew them into the buildings.

What does the argument become, then? That the government knew the attacks were coming and wired the building to collapse after they had been hit?

It is just beyond absurd.
they were hired actors of course...or the phone calls were impossible...

like I said, the amount of holes they jump through is limitless...IT NEVER ENDS



and I suppose the families of the loved ones are all hired actors too...they are IN ON IT...cause they want a "New World Order"

[RedBlackAttack]

Only after it all became declassified.
First of all, the Manhattan Project was long before the information age. It would be much easier to keep something like that under wraps in the 1940s as opposed to today.

Secondly, that consisted of scientists sitting in a laboratory going over theorems and conducting experiments in the desert.

This thing happened in the 2000s in the middle of the most highly concentrated population in the country and involving the most highly recognizable buildings in the world.

The two examples are literally completely different. I don't doubt that our government is conducting top secret experiments out in the middle of nowhere as we speak. It probably happens every day. That is a far cry from what you are talking about.

[Norcaliblunt]

and for what?...there isn't even a decent motive...to occupy Iraq?.

And I ask the same question of the supposed terrorist's? For what? Please give me something besides they hate us for our freedom. Lol.

[-playmaker-]

Only after it all became declassified.
that wasn't a huge live staged event...it isn't the same...AT ALL

you are talking about like something similiar to a Hollywood Movie being made and no one talking about...

but making a Hollywood movie isn't 911...SOMEONE would have spoken up by now...

someone would have grown and conscients...


you know why no one has come forward?...cause there is no one to come forward...except Al Queda and the people that celebrated it...(actors)

[-playmaker-]

And I ask the same question of the supposed terrorist's? For what? Please give me something besides they hate us for our freedom. Lol.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiKyWJRRjnU&feature=related

^^^ I'll let him tell you why

[Norcaliblunt]

First of all, the Manhattan Project was long before the information age. It would be much easier to keep something like that under wraps in the 1940s as opposed to today.

Secondly, that consisted of scientists sitting in a laboratory going over theorems and conducting experiments in the desert.

This thing happened in the 2000s in the middle of the most highly concentrated population in the country and involving the most highly recognizable buildings in the world.

The two examples are literally completely different. I don't doubt that our government is conducting top secret experiments out in the middle of nowhere as we speak. It probably happens every day. That is a far cry from what you are talking about.


But what's with the double standard. Al Queda can be secretive, but a rogue network within the US intelligence community can't be?

[RedBlackAttack]

And I ask the same question of the supposed terrorist's? For what? Please give me something besides they hate us for our freedom. Lol.
Oh, come on... There are a lot of factors, but the main one is resentment of our foreign policy, an idea that we occupy holy cities in the Middle East and general publicity. Those are the reasons that the leaders of Al-Qeada set the thing up.

They are able to get recruits to die for them do to brain-washing techniques and a feeling of hopelessness among the youth in the Middle East who see the only way out of extreme poverty as being death... That life will be better surrounded by 99 virgins (I would prefer 99 pornstars, personally... Virgins are no fun in bed and I know from experience).

[-playmaker-]

But what's with the double standard. Al Queda can be secretive, but a rogue network within the US intelligence community can't be?

but Al Queda doesn't keep it a secret...:confusedshrug:

and that "rogue network" you speak of would have to be 1,000+ highly skilled professionals and actors...

you act like some small black ops operation just worked their magic real quick...planted plane debris everywhere...domolished buildings...shot the pentagon and the ground with a missle and flew the real planes to a deserted island and killed the passengers (for unknown reasons they didn't want to just use the actual planes, lol)

[Norcaliblunt]

an idea that we occupy holy cities in the Middle East and general publicity.



So how did that turn out for them? Oh taking down those buildings really got the US out of the middle east. Lol. They are smart enough to do the attacks, but not to raelize their actions would case even more occupation.

[RedBlackAttack]

But what's with the double standard. Al Queda can be secretive, but a rogue network within the US intelligence community can't be?
They weren't that secretive... That's the point. Everyone knew that Al-Qaeda existed long before these attacks. These guys went to flight school in America and inquired about taking off, but weren't concerned about landing. They got drunk and spouted off. They were alone and bought one-way tickets. Some were even on the terrorist watch list. They were getting money wired to them.

All of the signs were there. Our government agencies just had a massive breakdown on every level. It happens.

Believing that our government had a massive brain fart is MUCH easier to believe than this convoluted mess with these conspiracy theorists.

[Norcaliblunt]

but Al Queda doesn't keep it a secret...:confusedshrug:



:rolleyes: They kept it secret enough to do the attacks and keep Bin Ladin hidden.

[-playmaker-]

So how did that turn out for them? Oh taking down those buildings really got the US out of the middle east. Lol. They are smart enough to do the attacks, but not to raelize their actions would case even more occupation.
again, the attacks were not all that brilliant at all...

and I am sure they understood it would cause more friction...that didn't stop him the first time he bombed the WTC...

[RidonKs]

is anybody able to go into detail on the lack of collaboration between the intelligence and military agencies? i'm sure i could find the information elsewhere, but if anybody knows offhand, i'd be interested.


Keep in mind though that various agencies had information that if put together could have broken the case, but at the time they where highly competitive and refused to share with each other.
anyone?

[-playmaker-]

:rolleyes: They kept it secret enough to do the attacks and keep Bin Ladin hidden.
they being how many people?...100 or so arabs?...for what 2-3 years maybe?


that is a FAR CRY from 1,000 gv workers keeping hush for a freakin decade...AFTER thousands upon thousands of deaths...

[RedBlackAttack]

So how did that turn out for them? Oh taking down those buildings really got the US out of the middle east. Lol. They are smart enough to do the attacks, but not to raelize their actions would case even more occupation.
OBL is on record as saying that his goal was to get us to commit to full-scale, all-out war all over the Middle East and to slowly drain America's will and its economy by over-reaching... The same way that Afghanistan was mainly responsible for the fall of the USSR.

The reaction that he wanted was exactly what we did. I do think that he underestimated the power of our military, though. We had those guys scrambling and on the ropes almost immediately. The Taliban was unseated in a matter of weeks.

It is one thing to sit in a room and contrive these great scenarios, it is another to have to stare down the greatest military that the world has ever seen. At the same time, his plan has been partially successful. There is no doubting what has happened to our economy since 9-11 is at least partly due to over-reaching in the Middle East.

[Norcaliblunt]

they being how many people?...100 or so arabs?...for what 2-3 years maybe?


that is a FAR CRY from 1,000 gv workers keeping hush for a freakin decade...AFTER thousands upon thousands of deaths...


The US still doesn't have Osama sir. 100 Arabs keeping him safe or what?

[-playmaker-]

The US still doesn't have Osama sir. 100 Arabs keeping him safe or what?
I didn't say otherwise...

maybe he is being kept safe...maybe he is dead...IDK

they have kept him safe after his countless other attacks...including the first WTC bombing...


he was alive for the died beard video though...That was him...not sure what year that was...like 2006 or something

[Norcaliblunt]

Hey I've enjoyed the conversation guys but I got to go. :cheers:

And sorry for hijacking the thread. This really should be all about the experiment this guy conducted.

Anyway I think there is the possibility that none of us really have a clue. There are probably truth's on both sides, and things that we couldn't even imagine that went down.

[ballup]

Interesting video, but unless you have a deep chemistry and statics background, you really can't tell if he's giving you solid evidence.

[RedBlackAttack]

is anybody able to go into detail on the lack of collaboration between the intelligence and military agencies? i'm sure i could find the information elsewhere, but if anybody knows offhand, i'd be interested.


anyone?
Here you go. (http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/11/fbiciansa_infor.html)

[RidonKs]

thanks dollface <3


In the end, the monograph implicitly suggests that if the law was not the problem, then changing the law may not be the solution.
i like this quote.

[IcanzIIravor]

The US still doesn't have Osama sir. 100 Arabs keeping him safe or what?

You don't sound very familiar with Afghanistan or Pakistan nor the tribal customs of honor and guest rights. OBL and al Zawahiri are most likely in the tribal regions of Pakistan and if we go into that region in full force to uproot everything we would further destabilize Pakistan. You know what Pakistan has right?

[Norcaliblunt]

. You know what Pakistan has right?


The same things that didn't stop somebody from attacking our biggest city and capital.

[beermonsteroo]

No just no

[Riddler]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiKyWJRRjnU&feature=related

^^^ I'll let him tell you why






So first off... let's go ahead and dismiss this $hitty video -playmaker- posted.
We all know this is not a confession... this is a reaction.

OBL is celebrating this event... not claiming responsibility.

This video would do a good job at shooting down the outrageous conspiracy theory claims that he is working for the USA.

http://articles.cnn.com/2001-09-16/us/inv.binladen.denial_1_bin-laden-taliban-supreme-leader-mullah-mohammed-omar?_s=PM:US


"I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks, which seems to have been planned by people for personal reasons," bin Laden's statement said.

"I have been living in the Islamic emirate of Afghanistan and following its leaders' rules. The current leader does not allow me to exercise such operations," bin Laden said.



The War in Afghanistan began on October 7, 2001,[28] as the US Armed Forces launched Operation Enduring Freedom along with the British Armed Forces and Afghan United Front (Northern Alliance) in response to the September 11 attacks with the stated goal of dismantling Al-Qaeda and ending its use of Afghanistan as a base for terrorist operations. The Unites States also promised to remove the Taliban regime from power and create a viable democratic state.

We go into Afghanistan and find a videotape.


Osama Bin Laden Dies 12-13-2001 as I explain in this thread:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=157108


We release the video tape:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41UAnkQARFs








I really think people need to stop believing that OBL is the mastermind of 9/11.

I don't care what you believe about that day... just please don't believe this guy orchestrated it.

Not only that... wake up and realize that these "alleged hijackers" are all from Saudi Arabia.

http://themoderatevoice.com/wordpress-engine/files/2008-may/bush4.jpg

http://macsmind.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/bush-hand-holding.jpg

the country that the Bush Administration has been kissing @ss... even before Bush Jr. & Bush Sr. were president.


Let's go into deeper detail ... our relationship with Saudia Arabia (http://www.spike.com/video-clips/jgu427/the-kingdom-opening-credits)







Let's take another look at this Bush Family:

http://www.bilderberg.org/gwsbones.jpg

http://www.cuttingedge.org/Bush_Masonic_TexasPublicSchool.jpg


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_KCXLGR6gNyE/TLf4WEmY9HI/AAAAAAAAATU/rPwrwdmHntE/s1600/Abortion_motivational_poster.jpg



http://courtneyphillips.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/hitler-bush-picture.jpg


http://thefinalworldwar.wikispaces.com/file/view/forth33.jpg/155033423/forth33.jpg


http://declarepeace.org.uk/captain/murder_inc/site/pics/bush_cia.gif


http://www.9-11-2001.com/hidden-symbols/Bush-Illuminati.jpg




I am willing to admitt that there are rich men on this planet that pull strings here and there to get what they want...no doubt...but they are still just MEN....humans are only capable of so much....and a mass conspiracy of this magnitude is not one of those things...again, it is IMPOSSIBLE...

1,000+ people can't even get in the same room together...yet we are to believe that 1,000+ HIGHLY SKILLED PROFFESIONALS all got together and preformed this event seamlessly...without saying a peep about it for a decade...it's ridiculous...our government couldn't even cover up the death of ONE MAN...Pat Tillman...

and for what?...there isn't even a decent motive...to occupy Iraq?....well, did you know that we went to war with Iraq in the 90s without buildings falling???....if we are so great at conspiracies, how come we didn't plant WMDs in Iraq to make the world happy???...OH, cause we SUCK AT LIEING...that's right...


Don't ever underestimate the Power of the Dark side... that's your problem right there.



http://www.crystalinks.com/crowleypyrhat.jpg

Look at this guy^... DO you know what the f*ck he is capable of?

[Hazard]

Interesting video, but unless you have a deep chemistry and statics background, you really can't tell if he's giving you solid evidence.
Fair enough, but where does the molten steel in the towers come from? I'm sure everyone knows by now that jet fuel cant melt steel.

[shlver]

Fair enough, but where does the molten steel in the towers come from? I'm sure everyone knows by now that jet fuel cant melt steel.
How do you know the molten material is steel?

[Hazard]

How do you know the molten material is steel?
They found iron spheres scattered all over, and some of the beams found on the site were melted.

[shlver]

They found iron spheres scattered all over, and some of the beams found on the site were melted.
So? Like I said molten aluminum and rust could have caused thermite reactions resulting in iron spheres.

[-playmaker-]

would a towering inferno that started from jet fuel melt steel?

not sure if you are aware of this but those buildings where f*ckin huge, lol...I am sure the core of that inferno was hotter than the outside...damn buildings were like half a mile wide, probably got hot as the sun in that thing...


I wouldn't mind see pics of molten steel btw...never seen that...that could easily be a 911 myth...all the pics I have seen are intact bars covered in ash...

[Hazard]

would a towering inferno that started from jet fuel melt steel?

not sure if you are aware of this but those buildings where f*ckin huge, lol...I am sure the core of that inferno was hotter than the outside...damn buildings were like half a mile wide, probably got hot as the sun in that thing...


I wouldn't mind see pics of molten steel btw...never seen that...that could easily be a 911 myth...all the pics I have seen are intact bars covered in ash...
Check the video, at the beginning there is footage of a molten material pouring out of the towers.


So? Like I said molten aluminum and rust could have caused thermite reactions resulting in iron spheres.
That's possible.

[shlver]

Also, the video is incorrect in dismissing the molten material as aluminum and with the theoretical thermite reactions, it is highly probable that the glowing metal could have been aluminum.
http://www.drjudywood.com/articles/aluminum/alumpics/alum_casting_equipment.jpg
http://www.drjudywood.com/articles/aluminum/alumpics/molten.jpg
Aluminum at 900-1100 degrees celsius.

[-playmaker-]

Check the video, at the beginning there is footage of a molten material pouring out of the towers.


That's possible.
that footage that everyone points to looks like ash pouring out to me...not liquid steel...

[Hazard]

Also, the video is incorrect in dismissing the molten material as aluminum and with the theoretical thermite reactions, it is highly probable that the glowing metal could have been aluminum.
The experiment was conducted to figure out how the steel beams were melted, and where the molten material came from. I would say it succeeded. He never claimed that the reaction was set up to happen. Personally I support these types of experiments. Unfortunately all we have is video footage that may or may not be altered, so the truth may never be uncovered and this argument will never die.

[Hazard]

that footage that everyone points to looks like ash pouring out to me...not liquid steel...
Its clearly liquid steel...

[ballup]

Its clearly liquid steel...
Do you have the personal experience to be confident in that accusation? Even if you have seen a variety of melted metals many times, it's kind of unbelievable for you to clearly identify it from just an average quality video.

[-playmaker-]

Its clearly liquid steel...
those towers where full of f*ckin all types of metals...how could you be sure it is steel seen there?

[shlver]

The experiment was conducted to figure out how the steel beams were melted, and where the molten material came from. I would say it succeeded. He never claimed that the reaction was set up to happen. Personally I support these types of experiments. Unfortunately all we have is video footage that may or may not be altered, so the truth may never be uncovered and this argument will never die.
Look at how he set up the experiment. Localized thermite reactions at every critical point in the structure? or is it more likely that the steel beams were weakened by the temperature then melted from the immense input of heat from thermite reactions caused after the aluminum melted and reacted with rust? Occam's razor favors the latter.

[Hazard]

those towers where full of f*ckin all types of metals...how could you be sure it is steel seen there?
Ok, its clearly a molten MATERIAL, definitely not ash.

[Hazard]

Look at how he set up the experiment. Localized thermite reactions at every critical point in the structure? or is it more likely that the steel beams were weakened by the temperature then melted from the immense input of heat from thermite reactions caused after the aluminum melted and reacted with rust? Occam's razor favors the latter.
Like I said, it is possible. There is too much bullshit floating around from both sides. I would really like to speak to someone educated in that field and gain their perspective, because personally I do not know.

[-playmaker-]

Ok, its clearly a molten MATERIAL, definitely not ash.
I wouldn't say definitely, but I agree it does resemble molten metal...

and even if it is steel, I am wondering if the inferno created by the planes is hot enough to do it...just cause jet fuel can't melt steel, doesn't mean an enormous fire ball can't...

[Riddler]

those buildings were rigged to holy hell.

[ballup]

those buildings were rigged to holy hell.
So did you rig them?

[NashIzGod]

So first off... let's go ahead and dismiss this $hitty video -playmaker- posted.
We all know this is not a confession... this is a reaction.

OBL is celebrating this event... not claiming responsibility.

This video would do a good job at shooting down the outrageous conspiracy theory claims that he is working for the USA.

http://articles.cnn.com/2001-09-16/us/inv.binladen.denial_1_bin-laden-taliban-supreme-leader-mullah-mohammed-omar?_s=PM:US







We go into Afghanistan and find a videotape.


Osama Bin Laden Dies 12-13-2001 as I explain in this thread:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=157108


We release the video tape:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41UAnkQARFs








I really think people need to stop believing that OBL is the mastermind of 9/11.

I don't care what you believe about that day... just please don't believe this guy orchestrated it.

Not only that... wake up and realize that these "alleged hijackers" are all from Saudi Arabia.

http://themoderatevoice.com/wordpress-engine/files/2008-may/bush4.jpg

http://macsmind.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/bush-hand-holding.jpg

the country that the Bush Administration has been kissing @ss... even before Bush Jr. & Bush Sr. were president.


Let's go into deeper detail ... our relationship with Saudia Arabia (http://www.spike.com/video-clips/jgu427/the-kingdom-opening-credits)







Let's take another look at this Bush Family:

http://www.bilderberg.org/gwsbones.jpg

http://www.cuttingedge.org/Bush_Masonic_TexasPublicSchool.jpg


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_KCXLGR6gNyE/TLf4WEmY9HI/AAAAAAAAATU/rPwrwdmHntE/s1600/Abortion_motivational_poster.jpg



http://courtneyphillips.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/hitler-bush-picture.jpg


http://thefinalworldwar.wikispaces.com/file/view/forth33.jpg/155033423/forth33.jpg


http://declarepeace.org.uk/captain/murder_inc/site/pics/bush_cia.gif


http://www.9-11-2001.com/hidden-symbols/Bush-Illuminati.jpg






Don't ever underestimate the Power of the Dark side... that's your problem right there.



http://www.crystalinks.com/crowleypyrhat.jpg

Look at this guy^... DO you know what the f*ck he is capable of?

Oh, oh. Someone on the board is AWAKE!

[shlver]

Man, Dooms is a retard.

[NashIzGod]

9/11 is obviously an inside job. It is scientifically IMPOSSIBLE for the Twin Towers to go down the way it did.

Plus most Americans don't know that THREE towers went down on 9/11, NOT TWO!

Here is World Trade Center 7. It went STRAIGHT DOWN and was NOT hit by a plane:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwSc7NPn8Ok

Here is the BEST documentary on the TRUTH of 9/11:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71aXlW4gFcg

Bottom line is our gov is corrupt as hell. Bush regime was involved, and Obummer is covering it up. BTW, OKC bombing and JFK shooting were all done by criminal elements in our government.

[ballup]

9/11 is obviously an inside job. It is scientifically IMPOSSIBLE for the Twin Towers to go down the way it did.

Plus most Americans don't know that THREE towers went down on 9/11, NOT TWO!

Here is World Trade Center 7. It went STRAIGHT DOWN and was NOT hit by a plane:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwSc7NPn8Ok

Here is the BEST documentary on the TRUTH of 9/11:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71aXlW4gFcg

Bottom line is our gov is corrupt as hell. Bush regime was involved, and Obummer is covering it up. BTW, OKC bombing and JFK shooting were all done by criminal elements in our government.
Are you a civil engineer? Because I'm pretty sure most of them would say it's very possible for the towers to fall the way they did.

[NashIzGod]

Are you a civil engineer? Because I'm pretty sure most of them would say it's very possible for the towers to fall the way they did.

Nope. Not a civil engineer, but I know a couple and they agree that it is impossible for a building to go down the way they did.

If you say that the planes brought down the Twin Towers, then how did WTC 7 collaplse straight down? It wasn't hit by a plane.

[shlver]

Nope. Not a civil engineer, but I know a couple and they agree that it is impossible for a building to go down the way they did.

If you say that the planes brought down the Twin Towers, then how did WTC 7 collaplse straight down? It wasn't hit by a plane.
Physics and logic says it is possible as well as many other civil engineers.

[Meticode]

If you say that the planes brought down the Twin Towers, then how did WTC7 collapse straight down? It wasn't hit by a plane.
Because a building fell on top of it that was twice the size of the 47 story WTC7 and fires burned uncontrollably in it for hours weakening it's main truss that held the load of the building..

[NashIzGod]

Physics and logic says it is possible as well as many other civil engineers.

Physics and logic say no. Let me see. The planes hit about the 90th floor. Supposedly it weakened the metal causing floors 91-111 to come straight down and destroying all of floors 1-90 into dust. That includes steel beams that weigh 1000s of pounds. And that happened within 12 seconds or so. Not likely.

Here are many engineers and former military guys that do not accept the governments version of 9/11:

http://patriotsquestion911.com/engineers.html

[Meticode]

Physics and logic say no. Let me see. The planes hit about the 90th floor. Supposedly it weakened the metal causing floors 91-111 to come straight down and destroying all of floors 1-90 into dust. That includes steel beams that weigh 1000s of pounds. And that happened within 12 seconds or so. Not likely.

Here are many engineers and former military guys that do not accept the governments version of 9/11:

http://patriotsquestion911.com/engineers.html
It's a moot point really. For everything that you will point out is wrong, people will point out other civil engineers saying it's completely plausible it fell the way it did. When people argue with you you'll just post videos, links of what people said from the internet. Then the people arguing with you will do so likewise.

Just save the energy, believe 9/11 was a conspiracy and we'll believe it wasn't and go along our marry way.

[NashIzGod]

Because a building fell on top of it that was twice the size of the 47 story WTC7 and fires burned uncontrollably in it for hours weakening it's main truss that held the load of the building..

You are wrong. The buildings did not fall on top of WTC 7. The building was on fire, but so are many other buildings. And no other building went STRAIGHT DOWN INTO ASH within seconds, like WTC 7.

Here is the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEPjOi2dQSM

It also shows other buildings engulfed in flames and the frames of these other buildings did NOT fall. The first building CLEARLY was burning much, much more than WTC 7.

BTW, the BBC reported that WTC 7 was already down BEFORE it was down. Someone obviously leaked the "info" too soon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mxFRigYD3s

[NashIzGod]

It's a moot point really. For everything that you will point out is wrong, people will point out other civil engineers saying it's completely plausible it fell the way it did. When people argue with you you'll just post videos, links of what people said from the internet. Then the people arguing with you will do so likewise.

Just save the energy, believe 9/11 was a conspiracy and we'll believe it wasn't and go along our marry way.

Leave the thread if you feel. This is extremely important. Our country is going BROKE looking for Bin Laden, who is dead. 3,000,000 people are DEAD in the Middle East, and we know there are no WMDs in Iraq. And we are trillions in debt. And gas is rising.

Everything is NOT okay.

[Meticode]

You are wrong. The buildings did not fall on top of WTC 7. The building was on fire, but so are many other buildings. And no other building went STRAIGHT DOWN INTO ASH within seconds, like WTC 7.
I disagree. As the North Tower collapsed on September 11, 2001, heavy debris hit 7 World Trade Center, causing damage to the south face of the building. The bottom portion of the building's south face was damaged by debris, including damage to the southwest corner from the 8th to 18th floors, a large vertical gash on the center-bottom extending at least ten floors, and other damage as high as the 18th floor. The building was equipped with a sprinkler system, but had many single-point vulnerabilities for failure: the sprinkler system required manual initiation of the electrical fire pumps, rather than being a fully automatic system; the floor-level controls had a single connection to the sprinkler water riser; and the sprinkler system required some power for the fire pump to deliver water. Also, water pressure was low, with little or no water to feed sprinklers.


It also shows other buildings engulfed in flames and the frames of these other buildings did NOT fall. The first building CLEARLY was burning much, much more than WTC 7.
Those buildings didn't have diesel fuel fueling the fire. And those buildings weren't constructed the same way was WTC7.

After the North Tower collapsed, some firefighters entered 7 World Trade Center to search the building. They attempted to extinguish small pockets of fire, but low water pressure hindered their efforts. Fires burned into the afternoon on the 11th and 12th floors of 7 World Trade Center, the flames visible on the east side of the building. During the afternoon, fire was also seen on floors 6–10, 13–14, 19–22, and 29–30. In particular, the fires on floors 7 through 9 and 11 through 13 continued to burn out of control during the afternoon. At approximately 2:00 pm, firefighters noticed a bulge in the southwest corner of 7 World Trade Center between the 10th and 13th floors, a sign that the building was unstable and might collapse. During the afternoon, firefighters also heard creaking sounds coming from the building. Around 3:30 pm FDNY Chief Daniel Nigro decided to halt rescue operations, surface removal, and searches along the surface of the debris near 7 World Trade Center and evacuate the area due to concerns for the safety of personnel. At 5:20:33 pm EDT on September 11, 2001, 7 World Trade Center started to collapse, with the crumble of the east mechanical penthouse, while at 5:21:10 pm EDT the entire building collapsed completely. There were no casualties associated with the collapse.


BTW, the BBC reported that WTC 7 was already down BEFORE it was down. Someone obviously leaked the "info" too soon.
The 9/11 conspiracy theories are pretty well known by now. The BBC addressed them earlier this month with a documentary, The Conspiracy Files, shown within the UK.

BBC World logoUntil now, I don't think we've been accused of being part of the conspiracy. But now some websites are using news footage from BBC World on September 11th 2001 to suggest we were actively participating in some sort of attempt to manipulate the audience. As a result, we're now getting lots of emails asking us to clarify our position. So here goes:

1. We're not part of a conspiracy. Nobody told us what to say or do on September 11th. We didn't get told in advance that buildings were going to fall down. We didn't receive press releases or scripts in advance of events happening.

2. In the chaos and confusion of the day, I'm quite sure we said things which turned out to be untrue or inaccurate - but at the time were based on the best information we had. We did what we always did - sourced our reports, used qualifying words like "apparently" or "it's reported" or "we're hearing" and constantly tried to check and double check the information we were receiving.

An image of the website hosting the alleged BBC World footage3. Our reporter Jane Standley was in New York on the day of the attacks, and like everyone who was there, has the events seared on her mind. I've spoken to her today and unsurprisingly, she doesn't remember minute-by-minute what she said or did - like everybody else that day she was trying to make sense of what she was seeing; what she was being told; and what was being told to her by colleagues in London who were monitoring feeds and wires services.

4. We no longer have the original tapes of our 9/11 coverage (for reasons of ****-up, not conspiracy). So if someone has got a recording of our output, I'd love to get hold of it. We do have the tapes for our sister channel News 24, but they don't help clear up the issue one way or another.

5. If we reported the building had collapsed before it had done so, it would have been an error - no more than that. As one of the comments on You Tube says today "so the guy in the studio didn't quite know what was going on? Woah, that totally proves conspiracy... "

[Meticode]

Leave the thread if you feel. This is extremely important. Our country is going BROKE looking for Bin Laden, who is dead. 3,000,000 people are DEAD in the Middle East, and we know there are no WMDs in Iraq. And we are trillions in debt. And gas is rising.

Everything is NOT okay.
Our country is not going broke because we're looking for Bin Laden.

[Hazard]

Our country is not going broke because we're looking for Bin Laden.
Relevant (http://www.freedomnowtv.com/2011/03/war-and-lies.html)

[NashIzGod]

Relevant (http://www.freedomnowtv.com/2011/03/war-and-lies.html)

Amen, brother.

[Meticode]

Relevant (http://www.freedomnowtv.com/2011/03/war-and-lies.html)
Okay...

[NashIzGod]

Okay...

Lots of money and soldiers' lives would be saved by ending the wars.

Logic.

[Meticode]

Lots of money and soldiers' lives would be saved by ending the wars.

Logic.
Okay...

[NashIzGod]

Okay...

Yes...

[Hazard]

Okay...
If you watch the whole video and see the numbers you would be shoving your sarcastic response back up your ass.

[NashIzGod]

If you watch the whole video and see the numbers you would be shoving your sarcastic response back up your ass.

Double amen, brother.

Unfortunately, most Americans just go with whatever the government says or does.

I guess it is anti-American to question authority.

[-playmaker-]

Double amen, brother.

Unfortunately, most Americans just go with whatever the government says or does.

I guess it is anti-American to question authority.
actualy the rest of the country dogs the gov to no end, have you ever turned on a TV?...it feels like all we do is question them...because they constantly do dumb shit...

they aren't smart enough to pull off all the rigging and planting and endless other BS needed for that what you guys say happened....

YOU are the ones that are giving too much credit to our government...YOU are the ones that think they are geniuses...YOU are the ones that are sheep to silly myths...not us, the rest of us understand they are just human...we might not know exactly what they are capable of doing, but we do know what they AREN'T capable of doing...


another thing I hate about your crowd...you watch all the videos full of creepy music, witness accounts that are taken out of context, made up information or information that is just flat out wrong...you buy into ALL OF IT...you are 100% sure it is fact, you don't even give the other side a F*CKING LOOK....and then after all that you have the nerve to call the rest of us sheep...smh

[-playmaker-]

the hundreds of engineers that popular mechanics hired to look in to 911 and show how the building fell?...they are all wrong, they don't know what they are talking about...none of them...or perhaps they were hired by the powers that be to keep fooling everyone...

the one random guy claiming to be an engineer on the YouTube vid with the creepy music?...now THAT GUY knows his shit!!!...he is smart and the others are dumb...

:facepalm

[IcanzIIravor]

The same things that didn't stop somebody from attacking our biggest city and capital.

You can't be this naive. The Pakistani government is already on thin ice with a large segment of the populace. If we go into the tribal areas in force that could tip the balance and topple the government with hardliners taking control, which would put the nukes in their hands. How in the hell does that mirror the US?

[Norcaliblunt]

Hey playmaker if you have your mind so made up on this issue, than why do you even bother trying to defend it? You obviously represent the majority point of view, so why the constant cheerleading?

WE GET IT! THERE IS NOTHING SUSPICIOUS ABOUT 911! ANYBODY WHO THINKS SO IS A NUT!

[miller-time]

If you watch the whole video and see the numbers you would be shoving your sarcastic response back up your ass.

i love how you just assume that people who disagree with you haven't watched the whole video or seen the numbers. we've all seen them, we all understand them. no one is impressed.

[Riddler]

Physics and logic say no.



exactly... why do I need to be an engineer?

look at the Physics



Even if you still believe that jet fuel melted the steel... Think about how
easy it would be for a Demolition Team if all they had to do was take out
the top.

Nope... sorry... to take three buildings like that, you would have to have
some kind of help. Crashing a plane aint gonna make it fall at free fall speed and turn the building to dust


and I don't why we are choosing to ignore all the reports of secondary explosions.

please for the love of God... why do we ignore the secondary explosions?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n-nT-luFIw

there is a reason why this video has 20,000,000 views.

[Norcaliblunt]

You can't be this naive. The Pakistani government is already on thin ice with a large segment of the populace. If we go into the tribal areas in force that could tip the balance and topple the government with hardliners taking control, which would put the nukes in their hands. How in the hell does that mirror the US?


How is that any different then what we were sold in Iraq? Supposedly they were harboring terrorist's, and also had WMD's, but that didn't stop the US from toppling their regime allowing a chance for "the bad guys" in that country to get their hands on the weapons.

[IcanzIIravor]

Hey playmaker if you have your mind so made up on this issue, than why do you even bother trying to defend it? You obviously represent the majority point of view, so why the constant cheerleading?

WE GET IT! THERE IS NOTHING SUSPICIOUS ABOUT 911! ANYBODY WHO THINKS SO IS A NUT!

There is plenty worth discussing. The problem is conspiracy people buy into anything that helps fuel the sensational. I am just amazed you guys can't even entertain the notion of government incompetence. This is the same government that just let a 20 something year old kid easily transfer documents from a SIPR machine to a thumb drive and then easily upload and send them to wikileaks, yet this is a government that can put together a 20 plus year conspiracy [formation of Al Queda] culminating in bringing down the WTC buildings?

[Meticode]

There is plenty worth discussing. The problem is conspiracy people buy into anything that helps fuel the sensational. I am just amazed you guys can't even entertain the notion of government incompetence. This is the same government that just let a 20 something year old kid easily transfer documents from a SIPR machine to a thumb drive and then easily upload and send them to wikileaks, yet this is a government that can put together a 20 plus year conspiracy [formation of Al Queda] culminating in bringing down the WTC buildings?
This is correct. And all the horribly made conspiracy videos that people make on Windows Movie Maker are correct. :oldlol:

[Meticode]

It's an on-going cycle. Dozens if conspiracies about that day have been debunked, then they find something new to conspire about.

I can't believe losers like this live in this country.

[Norcaliblunt]

There is plenty worth discussing. The problem is conspiracy people buy into anything that helps fuel the sensational. I am just amazed you guys can't even entertain the notion of government incompetence. This is the same government that just let a 20 something year old kid easily transfer documents from a SIPR machine to a thumb drive and then easily upload and send them to wikileaks, yet this is a government that can put together a 20 plus year conspiracy [formation of Al Queda] culminating in bringing down the WTC buildings?


I would entertain incompetence if somebody was actually arrested, fired, or something, because in this case it would have been criminal negligence.

[IcanzIIravor]

How is that any different then what we were sold in Iraq? Supposedly they were harboring terrorist's, and also had WMD's, but that didn't stop the US from toppling their regime allowing a chance for "the bad guys" in that country to get their hands on the weapons.

There is plenty of information out there on Pakistan. Why are you trying to discuss this when you obviously haven't done your homework? The information is on the net from credible sources and not just government controlled sources. Would you like me to give you some links so you can see what is going on inside Pakistan? If we are going to have an actual debate then you guys need to educate yourselves just as the other side is with regards to your theories.

If you walk down memory lane you would also remember that a great many people did not buy into the administrations views on Iraq. A great deal in the intel community resigned in protest or did not get deserved promotions because of their outspoken words in regards to the buildup with Iraq. Have you forgotten the many leaks from the intel community? The Bush administration did a masterful job of playing to peoples fears in the days after 9/11, but I recall the vast protests as well.

Now how familiar are you with the dynamics currently going on in Pakistan?

[-playmaker-]

Hey playmaker if you have your mind so made up on this issue, than why do you even bother trying to defend it? You obviously represent the majority point of view, so why the constant cheerleading?

WE GET IT! THERE IS NOTHING SUSPICIOUS ABOUT 911! ANYBODY WHO THINKS SO IS A NUT!
could I not say the exact same thing about you?

swap nut with sheep?

let's try it....


Hey Norcaliblunt aka guy who smokes pot all day, if you have your mind so made up on this issue, than why do you even bother trying to defend it? You obviously represent the point of view from those that are awake, so why the constant cheerleading?

WE GET IT! 911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB! ANYBODY WHO DOESN'T KNOW IS A SHEEP!


yep, works

[Hazard]

i love how you just assume that people who disagree with you haven't watched the whole video or seen the numbers. we've all seen them, we all understand them. no one is impressed.
If you don't see the significance in those numbers then you're part of the problem. And FYI he disregarded the video after looking at the title he didn't disagree.

[IcanzIIravor]

I would entertain incompetence if somebody was actually arrested, fired, or something, because in this case it would have been criminal negligence.

Have you read the 9/11 report? It's plain as day that it white washed the government incompetence to the lowest form possible. What you just said is exactly what conspiracy people should be focused on. Why people high up in the various agencies didn't get punished for the walls they put up between the agencies that led to 9/11 happening instead of being stopped. Not this crap about the government being actively involved. You know what this is the equivalent of? You're birthers. Just like the birthers, your talk gets things further away from the important questions and issues. Instead of a debate on government incompetence and why certain people high up did not at the least lose their jobs over what happened we are left with talk that a missile hit the Pentagon and government operatives planted bombs to bring down the towers. Just like birthers you're willing to believe the fantastic over facts.

[NashIzGod]

the hundreds of engineers that popular mechanics hired to look in to 911 and show how the building fell?...they are all wrong, they don't know what they are talking about...none of them...or perhaps they were hired by the powers that be to keep fooling everyone...

the one random guy claiming to be an engineer on the YouTube vid with the creepy music?...now THAT GUY knows his shit!!!...he is smart and the others are dumb...

:facepalm

There is NOT one random guy claiming to be an engineer!

There are over 1,400 architects and engineers AND over 200 former military who do not accept the science behind the government's version of 9/11!

http://patriotsquestion911.com/

[-playmaker-]

There is NOT one random guy claiming to be an engineer!

There are over 1,400 architects and engineers AND over 200 former military who do not accept the science behind the government's version of 9/11!

http://patriotsquestion911.com/
NONE of those signatures are stating that it was an inside job...not a single one

[NashIzGod]

Have you read the 9/11 report? It's plain as day that it white washed the government incompetence to the lowest form possible. What you just said is exactly what conspiracy people should be focused on. Why people high up in the various agencies didn't get punished for the walls they put up between the agencies that led to 9/11 happening instead of being stopped. Not this crap about the government being actively involved. You know what this is the equivalent of? You're birthers. Just like the birthers, your talk gets things further away from the important questions and issues. Instead of a debate on government incompetence and why certain people high up did not at the least lose their jobs over what happened we are left with talk that a missile hit the Pentagon and government operatives planted bombs to bring down the towers. Just like birthers you're willing to believe the fantastic over facts.

Show me Obama's birth certificate!

Even the current newly elected Democratic Hawaiian governor says he CAN'T find it!

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=252833

[Norcaliblunt]

Have you read the 9/11 report? It's plain as day that it white washed the government incompetence to the lowest form possible. What you just said is exactly what conspiracy people should be focused on. Why people high up in the various agencies didn't get punished for the walls they put up between the agencies that led to 9/11 happening instead of being stopped. Not this crap about the government being actively involved. You know what this is the equivalent of? You're birthers. Just like the birthers, your talk gets things further away from the important questions and issues. Instead of a debate on government incompetence and why certain people high up did not at the least lose their jobs over what happened we are left with talk that a missile hit the Pentagon and government operatives planted bombs to bring down the towers. Just like birthers you're willing to believe the fantastic over facts.

Hey I totally agree with this. But those questions aren't getting answered either, so that leaves the room open for debate, that's my only point.

[Meticode]

There is NOT one random guy claiming to be an engineer!

There are over 1,400 architects and engineers AND over 200 former military who do not accept the science behind the government's version of 9/11!

http://patriotsquestion911.com/
Wow, those people are ****ed up in the head.

[shlver]

Physics and logic say no. Let me see. The planes hit about the 90th floor. Supposedly it weakened the metal causing floors 91-111 to come straight down and destroying all of floors 1-90 into dust. That includes steel beams that weigh 1000s of pounds. And that happened within 12 seconds or so. Not likely.

Here are many engineers and former military guys that do not accept the governments version of 9/11:

http://patriotsquestion911.com/engineers.html
What? So you don't take into account the structure of the building? The unique skeleton collapsed exactly as it should have.

[Hazard]

An incompetent government that can be bought. Just throwing that out there.

[NashIzGod]

NONE of those signatures are stating that it was an inside job...not a single one

LMAO! They are all saying it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to happen the way the government said!

They talk about how the buildings went down in a CONTROLLED DEMOLITION!

[-playmaker-]

LMAO! They are all saying it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to happen the way the government said!

They talk about how the buildings went down in a CONTROLLED DEMOLITION!
they signed a paper saying they question the official report...

I COULD SIGN THAT!!!

[Meticode]

An incompetent government that can be bought. Just throwing that out there.
I could buy you right now.

[NashIzGod]

Wow, those people are ****ed up in the head.


Someone is mad. Nice resorting to name-calling instead of facts.

[NashIzGod]

they signed a paper saying they question the official report...

I COULD SIGN THAT!!!

You obviously didn't read their quotes.

[Hazard]

I could buy you right now.
I can also rob your punk ass.

[IcanzIIravor]

Show me Obama's birth certificate!

Even the current newly elected Democratic Hawaiian governor says he CAN'T find it!

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=252833

You're not really a birther I hope, because that puts you into a entirely different category of special. :oldlol:

[Meticode]

LMAO! They are all saying it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to happen the way the government said!

They talk about how the buildings went down in a CONTROLLED DEMOLITION!
What are you going to do about this 9/11 Truth movement? What's your future plans on it besides debating on a message board?

[NashIzGod]

What? So you don't take into account the structure of the building? The unique skeleton collapsed exactly as it should have.

There was nothing so unique about those THREE buildings that could cause it collapse the way it did.

No way all those steel metal beams of the structure could become pure dust in seconds.

[Meticode]

I can also rob your punk ass.
I love you too brother.

[Hazard]

I love you too brother.
:oldlol: :cheers:

[-playmaker-]

You obviously didn't read their quotes.
I read the top few, which have to be the most radical of the quotes...those quotes still have nothing to do what they signed and I could show you a hundred engineers that say the exact opposite...obviously they aren't all on the same page when it comes to this...

[NashIzGod]

What are you going to do about this 9/11 Truth movement? What's your future plans on it besides debating on a message board?

What the hell does it matter to you what I do?

What are your other plans besides sucking your thumb, watching tv, believing everything the government says, and watching the country go broke?

[-playmaker-]

There was nothing so unique about those THREE buildings that could cause it collapse the way it did.

No way all those steel metal beams of the structure could become pure dust in seconds.
there was nothing unique about the WTC buildings?


:oldlol:

yeah, those are all over the place...

[NashIzGod]

I read the top few, which have to be the most radical of the quotes...those quotes still have nothing to do what they signed and I could show you a hundred engineers that say the exact opposite...obviously they aren't all on the same page when it comes to this...

Please show me a place where "hundreds (of) engineers that say the exact opposite?

You claim to know of it; present it.

[NashIzGod]

there was nothing unique about the WTC buildings?


:oldlol:

yeah, those are all over the place...

Please explain the "uniqueness" besides that they are tall?

"Those are all over the place"?

Please explain how "those" buildings are designed so special.

[Norcaliblunt]

could I not say the exact same thing about you?

swap nut with sheep?

let's try it....


Hey Norcaliblunt aka guy who smokes pot all day, if you have your mind so made up on this issue, than why do you even bother trying to defend it? You obviously represent the point of view from those that are awake, so why the constant cheerleading?

WE GET IT! 911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB! ANYBODY WHO DOESN'T KNOW IS A SHEEP!


yep, works

Dude you have 7 thousand plus posts since 2010 (mostly all in these kinds of topics) compared to my 500 over 4 years. Now who's sitting around all day? :roll:

[-playmaker-]

Please show me a place where "hundreds (of) engineers that say the exact opposite?

You claim to know of it; present it.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842

popular mechanics hired hundereds of engineers and architecs to debunk it all...

[-playmaker-]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i11Yo3qKZV8

^^^ there is an engineer showing how the buildings fell...RIGHT THERE

I'm telling you, there are engineers on both sides of this debate...

[Meticode]

What the hell does it matter to you what I do?

What are your other plans besides sucking your thumb, watching tv, believing everything the government says, and watching the country go broke?
Well my plans for at least the next 16 years is to raise my daughter as best I possibly can and provide for her. And it's not a matter of believing what the government tells me. I saw the planes hit the towers, I saw innocent people die that day on the planes and those buildings. To say our own government drove planes into the buildings on purpose and for it to coincide with it being in a demolition after getting hit by a airline is totally preposterous to me.

So again, answer my question please. What do you plan to do about this 9/11 Truth movement besides having a pissing contest about it on ta message board? Do you plan to march for it in protest? Donate funds to 9/11 Truth organizations? Or just Google more conspiracy websites and post links on message boards to people blah, blah, blah-ing about it. If you're so passionate about it what the **** are you going to do about it? Or are you just pissed off at the world about something and you just want to argue with people?

[-playmaker-]

^^^ start at 2:00...the fire chief says he sees steel beams like that fail ALL THE TIME from fire and how that kills more fire fighters than anything else...

[shlver]

There was nothing so unique about those THREE buildings that could cause it collapse the way it did.

No way all those steel metal beams of the structure could become pure dust in seconds.
The towers were made of three elements. A typical central tower, steel exterior, and floors to tie the two. When the fire heated and weakened the supports, the top floors collapsed. The impact shatters the bottom floor supports, gravity acts upon it and the collapse cascades down resulting in a straight down type of collapse. If the plane was hit lower, there would be much more catastrophic consequences and would result in the tower toppling instead of collapsing straight down.
One of the towers, the second I think, did start its collapse off center, but a building like that is not strong enough to redirect the energy of its collapse sideways.

[NashIzGod]

Well my plans for at least the next 16 years is to raise my daughter as best I possibly can and provide for her. And it's not a matter of believing what the government tells me. I saw the planes hit the towers, I saw innocent people die that day on the planes and those buildings. To say our own government drove planes into the buildings on purpose and for it to coincide with it being in a demolition after getting hit by a airline is totally preposterous to me.

So again, answer my question please. What do you plan to do about this 9/11 Truth movement besides besides having a pissing contest about it on ta message board? Do you plan to march for it in protest? Donate funds to 9/11 Truth organizations? Or just Google more conspiracy websites and post links on message boards to people blah, blah, blah-ing about it. If you're so passionate about it what the **** are you going to do about it? Or are you just pissed off at the world about something and you just want to argue with people?

Such anger. So happy that you have a daughter. Wow. You must be the only person in the world with a daughter. I have kids, too. Like it really matters.

Well, I do burn DVDs and hand them out to people regarding 9/11 and the Federal Reserve. And I continue to educate people about the truth regarding 9/11.

It might seem "preposterous" to you that I, and many others, believe that it is scientifically impossible for steel frames to become dust in seconds due to something falling on them, but it is not "preposterous" to me.

[NashIzGod]

^^^ start at 2:00...the fire chief says he sees steel beams like that fail ALL THE TIME from fire and how that kills more fire fighters than anything else...

Beams fall, but they do not become dust in seconds.

[shlver]

Such anger. So happy that you have a daughter. Wow. You must be the only person in the world with a daughter. I have kids, too. Like it really matters.

Well, I do burn DVDs and hand them out to people regarding 9/11 and the Federal Reserve. And I continue to educate people about the truth regarding 9/11.

It might seem "preposterous" to you that I, and many others, believe that it is scientifically impossible for steel frames to become dust in seconds due to something falling on them, but it is not "preposterous" to me.
Can I get a source?

[NashIzGod]

The towers were made of three elements. A typical central tower, steel exterior, and floors to tie the two. When the fire heated and weakened the supports, the top floors collapsed. The impact shatters the bottom floor supports, gravity acts upon it and the collapse cascades down resulting in a straight down type of collapse. If the plane was hit lower, there would be much more catastrophic consequences and would result in the tower toppling instead of collapsing straight down.
One of the towers, the second I think, did start its collapse off center, but a building like that is not strong enough to redirect the energy of its collapse sideways.

If gravity brought floors 91-111 down, then that part would have tipped over. It would not come straight down and make the steel beams become dust. The top part does not have enough power to force and destroy floors 1-90 like a sledge hammer.

[-playmaker-]

Beams fall, but they do not become dust in seconds.
those beams didn't become dust...all the crap in a million officies burned to dust...

steel can't turn into dust...

[shlver]

If gravity brought floors 91-111 down, then that part would have tipped over. It would not come straight down and make the steel beams become dust. The top part does not have enough power to force and destroy floors 1-90 like a sledge hammer.
Man, you can barely read, let alone have a working understanding of physics.
Like I said it was more of a domino effect.

[Meticode]

^^^ start at 2:00...the fire chief says he sees steel beams like that fail ALL THE TIME from fire and how that kills more fire fighters than anything else...
Doesn't matter, fire fighters were in on it too. :rolleyes:

Before WTC7 collapse fire fighters were quoted of saying they heard loud creaking and moaning coming from WTC7 after the fires were burning for hours. Obviously they were paid to say this.

And BCC obviously reported the WTC7 collapse early because they had information it was collapsed before it ever did. Obviously BBC couldn't of made an honest mistake like something of the nature of fire fighters saying to clear the area because WTC7 was in risk of collapsing and it got translated wrong amongst the chaos of that day and maybe someone reported it wrong saying WTC7 collapsed when it should've been WTC7 is in risk of collapsing. That's not logical at all.

Obviously a building falling gashing out parts of floors, some 10-storys vertically long and fire burning couldn't of collapsed it. Obviously WTC1 & 2 were brought down in such a way to fall on WTC7, so then because WTC7 sustained damage they could demolish it.

Damn imagine that. If WTC1 & 2 didn't fall on it, they probably wouldn't of pulled the plug to demolish it. If it had 0 damage and no fires and donated it it would've been crazy.

This is what conspiracy theorist sound like on the subject. They say use logic, but they grasp at straws to discount the matter of that day.

[NashIzGod]

Can I get a source?

I do not have a source. I am using logic. All I have are documentaries that explain it. But then again, can you give me a "source" that proves that proves that the steel can become dust.

[-playmaker-]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i11Yo3qKZV8

^^^ there is an engineer showing how the buildings fell...RIGHT THERE

I'm telling you, there are engineers on both sides of this debate...


AGAIN...^^^ IT IS PERFECTLY EXPLAINED THERE...

the fire chief says steel trusses like that kill fire fighters more than anything else from collapsing after fires...

I mean really, it goes into detail and breaks it down perfectly...no one should deny it, there is no reason to

[NashIzGod]

Man, you can barely read, let alone have a working understanding of physics.
Bolded is completely baseless assumption. Like I said it was more of a domino effect.

If it was a "domino effect", it could not go down as fast as it did.

[Meticode]

If gravity brought floors 91-111 down, then that part would have tipped over. It would not come straight down and make the steel beams become dust. The top part does not have enough power to force and destroy floors 1-90 like a sledge hammer.
Sure it does, because it happened that day.

[shlver]

I do not have a source. I am using logic. All I have are documentaries that explain it. But then again, can you give me a "source" that proves that proves that the steel can become dust.
:facepalm

[NashIzGod]

AGAIN...^^^ IT IS PERFECTLY EXPLAINED THERE...

the fire chief says steel trusses like that kill fire fighters more than anything else from collapsing after fires...

I mean really, it goes into detail and breaks it down perfectly...no one should deny it, there is no reason to

He is not explaining how the steel beams that are attatched by cranes became dust.

[NashIzGod]

:facepalm


Well, can you? Yes or no?

[shlver]

If it was a "domino effect", it could not go down as fast as it did.
Not your baseless assumptions. Let's hear science.

[Meticode]

If it was a "domino effect", it could not go down as fast as it did.
We know, it's impossible. :blah

[-playmaker-]

Doesn't matter, fire fighters were in on it too. :rolleyes:

Before WTC7 collapse fire fighters were quoted of saying they heard loud creaking and moaning coming from WTC7 after the fires were burning for hours. Obviously they were paid to say this.

And BCC obviously reported the WTC7 collapse early because they had information it was collapsed before it ever did. Obviously BBC couldn't of made an honest mistake like something of the nature of fire fighters saying to clear the area because WTC7 was in risk of collapsing and it got translated wrong amongst the chaos of that day and maybe someone reported it wrong saying WTC7 collapsed when it should've been WTC7 is in risk of collapsing. That's not logical at all.

Obviously a building falling gashing out parts of floors, some 10-storys vertically long and fire burning couldn't of collapsed it. Obviously WTC1 & 2 were brought down in such a way to fall on WTC7, so then because WTC7 sustained damage they could demolish it.

Damn imagine that. If WTC1 & 2 didn't fall on it, they probably wouldn't of pulled the plug to demolish it. If it had 0 damage and no fires and donated it it would've been crazy.

This is what conspiracy theorist sound like on the subject. They say use logic, but they grasp at straws to discount the matter of that day.
yes, everyone who proves them wrong is "in on it"...

every piece of debris was "planted"...

no matter what you show them, it was all planned no matter what...

[shlver]

Well, can you? Yes or no?
I want a source where steel beams were not found and only steel dust was found. Hint: You're not going to find any.

[NashIzGod]

Not your baseless assumptions. Let's hear science.

Okay let me "hear" the science.

[Meticode]

yes, everyone who proves them wrong is "in on it"...

every piece of debris was "planted"...

no matter what you show them, it was all planned no matter what...
Okay, back to arguing with 9/11 Truthers that are so passionate about it all they do is go on message boards and post about it, but in their daily activate lives they don't do shit about it.

[NashIzGod]

I want a source where steel beams were not found and only steel dust was found. Hint: You're not going to find any.

And you can't find a "source" to prove otherwise.

[shlver]

Okay let me "hear" the science.
Give me a source that tells me the steel beams became dust.

[NashIzGod]

yes, everyone who proves them wrong is "in on it"...

every piece of debris was "planted"...

no matter what you show them, it was all planned no matter what...

Didn't say "eveyone who proves them wrong is "in on it" ".

Some where "in on it".

[Meticode]

And you can't find a "source" to prove otherwise.
Oh shit, that was deep man.

[shlver]

And you can't find a "source" to prove otherwise.
What are you talking about?
http://www.osha.gov/nyc-disaster/photoarchive/image4.jpg
Obviously not dust.

[Meticode]

Didn't say "eveyone who proves them wrong is "in on it" ".

Some where "in on it".
Who were in on it?

[NashIzGod]

Okay, back to arguing with 9/11 Truthers that are so passionate about it all they do is go on message boards and post about it, but in their daily activate lives they don't do shit about it.

Wrong there have been many protests and people who try to provide information to others about the science of 9/11.

[NashIzGod]

What are you talking about?
http://www.osha.gov/nyc-disaster/photoarchive/image4.jpg
Obviously not dust.

That is just the last few floors. It is quite obvious from watching the buildings go down that the majority of the building became dust.

[Meticode]

What are you talking about?
http://www.osha.gov/nyc-disaster/photoarchive/image4.jpg
Obviously not dust.
I'm a 9/11 Truther, obviously that beam was planted there. See how the steel is bent. There is no way steel could bend like that and deform from a airline hitting a building hundreds of miles per hour, while fires burned for hours then it collapsed and fell 100 stories. Obviously planted.

[Meticode]

That is just the last few floors. It is quite obvious from watching the buildings go down that the majority of the building became dust.
Obviously it's not because most of the actual building was made from concrete. Obviously that's impossible.

[shlver]

That is just the last few floors. It is quite obvious from watching the buildings go down that the majority of the building became dust.
lol.

[-playmaker-]

He is not explaining how the steel beams that are attatched by cranes became dust.
THEY DIDN'T BECOME DUST!!!

wtf do you think they did?


nothing could do that not ven thermite...

there was TONS AND TONS OF SHIT IN THE BUILDING...:hammerhead:


do you think they those buildings were just empty?

you're talking about tons of desks and furnature and paper...ect...THAT is your ash/dust...not the steel, the steel was shipped away and melted down

[Meticode]

Wrong there have been many protests and people who try to provide information to others about the science of 9/11.
What are you going to do about the 9/11 Truth. What's your future plans with it?

[NashIzGod]

I'm a 9/11 Truther, obviously that beam was planted there. See how the steel is bent. There is no way steel could bend like that and deform from a airline hitting a building hundreds of miles per hour, while fires burned for hours then it collapsed and fell 100 stories. Obviously planted.

In all building demolitions, there are beams that don't get destroyed 100%. There is a ton of cleanup.

[shlver]

He's obviously trolling or incredibly stupid.

[Meticode]

THEY DIDN'T BECOME DUST!!!

wtf do you think they did?


nothing could do that not ven thermite...

there was TONS AND TONS OF SHIT IN THE BUILDING...:hammerhead:


do you think they those buildings were just empty?

you're talking about tons of desks and furnature and paper...ect...THAT is your ash/dust...not the steel, the steel was shipped away and melted down
Not to mention all the concrete. That was probably majority of the dust right there. But again, that is impossible. I couldn't have been concrete.

[NashIzGod]

What are you going to do about the 9/11 Truth. What's your future plans with it?

Inform as many people as possible and hope we can take this country back since it is going the wrong way.

[NashIzGod]

He's obviously trolling or incredibly stupid.

I guess I can say the same about you. Insults mean nothing.

[Meticode]

In all building demolitions, there are beams that don't get destroyed 100%. There is a ton of cleanup.
Obviously.

[-playmaker-]

Okay, back to arguing with 9/11 Truthers that are so passionate about it all they do is go on message boards and post about it, but in their daily activate lives they don't do shit about it.
Deuce throws that at Dooms all the time...

to the defense of these guys, there really isn't much they can "do about it" really...

talk to each other...try to inform others..that's about it

If I was sure that the gov did it, I am not sure what I would do....probably consider moving to Europe though, that is for sure...

[Meticode]

Inform as many people as possible and hope we can take this country back since it is going the wrong way.
What do you want to happen with the country? Oust everyone in the government and start over or what?

[NashIzGod]

THEY DIDN'T BECOME DUST!!!

wtf do you think they did?


nothing could do that not ven thermite...

there was TONS AND TONS OF SHIT IN THE BUILDING...:hammerhead:


do you think they those buildings were just empty?

you're talking about tons of desks and furnature and paper...ect...THAT is your ash/dust...not the steel, the steel was shipped away and melted down

You are getting wise now. Now how did the "tons of desks and furniture" become dust, also? It is illogical to believe the "tons of desks and furniture" can became dust because something fell on it. It also blew up in the controlled demolition.

[NashIzGod]

What do you want to happen with the country? Oust everyone in the government and start over or what?

That would be a nice start.

[Meticode]

Deuce throws that at Dooms all the time...

to the defense of these guys, there really isn't much they can "do about it" really...

talk to each other...try to inform others..that's about it

If I was sure that the gov did it, I am not sure what I would do....probably consider moving to Europe though, that is for sure...
Damn that must suck. All you can do is go on the internet and have pissing contests with people about a conspiracy. Sad life.

[NashIzGod]

Damn that must suck. All you can do is go on the internet and have pissing contests with people about a conspiracy. Sad life.

Well, I would say you are currently doing the same thing. Actually, I'm quite happy.

[Meticode]

You are getting wise now. Now how did the "tons of desks and furniture" become dust, also? It is illogical to believe the "tons of desks and furniture" can became dust because something fell on it. It also blew up in the controlled demolition.
Obviously the building exploded.

[-playmaker-]

You are getting wise now. Now how did the "tons of desks and furniture" become dust, also? It is illogical to believe the "tons of desks and furniture" can became dust because something fell on it. It also blew up in the controlled demolition.
It was burned you f*ckin retard...it tuned to ash...

have you ever made a camp fire?...or burned something as a kid?...what does it turn into?

[Meticode]

Well, I would say you are currently doing the same thing. Actually, I'm quite happy.
You're not happy. You're upset about the government conspiracy remember?

[Meticode]

have you ever made a camp fire?...or burned something as a kid?...what does it turn into?
It turns into a bomb when it burns. That's it! When the fire started the desks turned into bombs and the bombs blew the building down. Then because the desk turned to bombs, then the bombs blew up it turned to dust.

[shlver]

You are getting wise now. Now how did the "tons of desks and furniture" become dust, also? It is illogical to believe the "tons of desks and furniture" can became dust because something fell on it. It also blew up in the controlled demolition.
You do understand that controlled demolitions utilize the same mechanism of collapse of the world trade centers' right?

[Meticode]

You do understand that controlled demolitions utilize the same mechanism of collapse of the world trade centers' right?
It doesn't matter, The steel beams turned to dust.

[NashIzGod]

It was burned you f*ckin retard...it tuned to ash...

have you ever made a camp fire?...or burned something as a kid?...what does it turn into?

You are comparing a camp fire to the World Trade Centers fire?

I hope you are kidding.

So you are saying "tons of desks and furniture" burned to dust in the matter of seconds?

It would take a long time for one desk to burn.

[-playmaker-]

You do understand that controlled demolitions utilize the same mechanism of collapse of the world trade centers.
only thermite turns things into dust...:oldlol:

that big ball of fire in the center couldn't have done any damage...no way

[shlver]

You are comparing a camp fire to the World Trade Centers fire?

I hope you are kidding.

So you are saying "tons of desks and furniture" burned to dust in the matter of seconds?

It would take a long time for one desk to burn.
There is still furniture in the debris.

[NashIzGod]

You do understand that controlled demolitions utilize the same mechanism of collapse of the world trade centers' right?

Yes. Using explosives. I don't know how you could have a building collapse to dust without using explosives.

[shlver]

Yes. Using explosives. I don't know how you could have a building collapse to dust without using explosives.
They don't blow the whole building up. They use the building's weight to collapse lower layers.

[-playmaker-]

You are comparing a camp fire to the World Trade Centers fire?

I hope you are kidding.

So you are saying "tons of desks and furniture" burned to dust in the matter of seconds?

It would take a long time for one desk to burn.
well it DID burn for a long time idiot...but a desk in that inferno is like throwing a twig in a fire place...it isn't going to last long at all...

[NashIzGod]

There is still furniture in the debris.

He said the "tons of desks and furniture" led to the large amounts of dust.

[shlver]

He said the "tons of desks and furniture" led to the large amounts of dust.
So? Of course burning furniture will lead to ash.

[NashIzGod]

well it DID burn for a long time idiot...but a desk in that inferno is like throwing a twig in a fire place...it isn't going to last long at all...

Only a couple of floors had fires. You are assuming the whole building was in a blaze from top to bottom.

[-playmaker-]

Only a couple of floors had fires. You are assuming the whole building was in a blaze from top to bottom.
only a couple floors?

is that a joke?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i11Yo3qKZV8


^^^ WATCH THAT AGAIN...or for the first time probably

[NashIzGod]

They don't blow the whole building up. They use the building's weight to collapse lower layers.

Not enough force from floors 91-111 to collapse the entire buildings into dust.

[Meticode]

He said the "tons of desks and furniture" led to the large amounts of dust.
World Trade Center after collapse. Obviously this is dust.

http://dart2.arc.nasa.gov/Deployments/NYC-WTC2001/images/LER049.jpg

^See all the mangled steel and metal? That's dust. ^

[Meticode]

Not enough force from floors 91-111 to collapse the entire buildings into dust.
You disgrace America.

[NashIzGod]

only a couple floors?

is that a joke?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i11Yo3qKZV8


^^^ WATCH THAT AGAIN...or for the first time probably

How many of the 111 floors were on fire then? I say 10 at most. And those floors were not inflamed.

[NashIzGod]

You disgrace America.

No. You do. All your insults do nothing.

[shlver]

Not enough force from floors 91-111 to collapse the entire buildings into dust.
Tell me the weight of the floors from 91-111 and show me the calculations of downward force acting upon the steel trusses. Also give me how much force the steel trusses are able to withstand, taking into account the stress of the weakened heated steel projecting the weight of the top floors onto the steel trusses. If you can't, you're just talking out of your ass like most of your points.

[Meticode]

Tell me the weight of the floors from 91-111 and show me the calculations of downward force acting upon the steel trusses. Also give me how much force the steel trusses are able to withstand, taking into account the stress of the weakened heated steel projecting the weight of the top floors onto the steel trusses. If you can't, you're just talking out of your ass like most of your points.
It doesn't matter becuase this...

http://dart2.arc.nasa.gov/Deployments/NYC-WTC2001/images/LER049.jpg

...is dust. There's no way the building could be dust.

[NashIzGod]

Tell me the weight of the floors from 91-111 and show me the calculations of downward force acting upon the steel trusses. Also give me how much force the steel trusses are able to withstand, taking into account the stress of the weakened heated steel projecting the weight of the top floors onto the steel trusses. If you can't, you're just talking out of your ass like most of your points.


I do not have the "calculations". Do you have the "calculations" that prove the government's official story.

You are "talking out of your ass". You keep asking me for "calculations" and such to prove my point.

Yet you cannot provide the same for yours and the government's point.

[shlver]

I do not have the "calculations". Do you have the "calculations" that prove the government's official story.

You are "talking out of your ass". You keep asking me for "calculations" and such to prove my point.

Yet you cannot provide the same for yours and the government's point.
I'm not making claims like these am I?

Not enough force from floors 91-111 to collapse the entire buildings into dust

[Meticode]

I do not have the "calculations". Do you have the "calculations" that prove the government's official story.

You are "talking out of your ass". You keep asking me for "calculations" and such to prove my point.

Yet you cannot provide the same for yours and the government's point.
You have no proof for your arguments. You grasp at straws.

[Riddler]

http://www.911conspiracy.tv/images/911_Truth_Dog_Nathan_Janes_sm.jpg

[NashIzGod]

I'm not making claims like these am I?


Yes. You are claiming the buildings collapsed as the government said. I am claiming it could not happen that way.

However, you are expecting me to show "calculations" for my claim, while not providing "calculations" for yours and the government's claim.

[NashIzGod]

You have no proof for your arguments. You grasp at straws.

Well, if I have no "proof" for my arguments, you have no "proof" for your arguments.

It depends on what you consider "proof".

[NashIzGod]

http://www.911conspiracy.tv/images/911_Truth_Dog_Nathan_Janes_sm.jpg

LOL. Nice pick.

[Meticode]

Well, if I have no "proof" for my arguments, you have no "proof" for your arguments.

It depends on what you consider "proof".
Let me ask you a serious question here.

Do you honestly believe that our government purposely flew a airliner into each building, then to coincide with that they set off demolition charges later after the fires burned?

What is your personal opinion or belief of the planes and the buildings falling?

[-playmaker-]

How many of the 111 floors were on fire then? I say 10 at most. And those floors were not inflamed.
the entire inside was a massive fire ball dude...wtf are you talking a bout?

http://sites.google.com/site/911guide/wtc29-custom-size-680-895.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_uumsCoEzUXo/TF93Z7i5iRI/AAAAAAAAAGs/aB605I61qvI/s1600/WTC_on_fire3%5B1%5D.jpg


and it burned for an HOUR...

the entire inside of that thing is BURNING!!!!...not all the way down to the floor, although elevators snaps causing explosion type noise to hit the ground...

[shlver]

Yes. You are claiming the buildings collapsed as the government said. I am claiming it could not happen that way.

However, you are expecting me to show "calculations" for my claim, while not providing "calculations" for yours and the government's claim.
I never made any claims. I said controlled demolitions utilize the weight of the building to collapse lower floors in which you replied...

Not enough force from floors 91-111 to collapse the entire buildings into dust

[gts]

You are getting wise now. Now how did the "tons of desks and furniture" become dust, also? It is illogical to believe the "tons of desks and furniture" can became dust because something fell on it. It also blew up in the controlled demolition.dust? lol it didn't turn to dust it turned into rubble and chunks of junk. if it was dust they could have grabbed the garden hose and hosed the site down and been done in a wekk instead of the years it took

http://911digitalarchive.org/REPOSITORY/MISC_COLLECTIONS/national_guard_bureau/CRRDB/World%20Trade%20Center/Debris%20Removal.htm

what an ass clown, like they are going to find a ikea desk intact after a billion tons of building falls on it...lol



[QUOTE]Larger items, such as destroyed fire trucks and other vehicles, are torn apart by a machine called a shearer. Hundreds of vehicles have been hauled to Fresh Kills, most recovered from the collapsed parking lots under the World Trade Center.

"We're still finding human remains, even to this day," says Richard Marx, the FBI

[Riddler]

dust? lol it didn't turn to dust


http://visibility911.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/world_trade_center_dust.jpg

http://shadowpress.org/WTC%20Dust6.jpg

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/rebar.jpg

http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2010/07/17/450x356-alg_wtc_dust.jpg




dust.

[shlver]

dust.
He said steel beams turned into dust.

[RidonKs]

oh, wow. that's some dust. it all must have been dust then. because if there's some dust, it's all dust. right?

[gts]

http://visibility911.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/world_trade_center_dust.jpg

http://shadowpress.org/WTC%20Dust6.jpg

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/rebar.jpg

http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2010/07/17/450x356-alg_wtc_dust.jpg




dust.you are one stupid f*ck, no wonder your wife bailed

[shlver]

you are one stupid f*ck, no wonder your wife bailed
:lol :lol :lol

[IcanzIIravor]

He said steel beams turned into dust.

My mind is blown away that he is still referring to the beams turning to dust after seeing all the pictures posted by Meticode and others. Talk about deliberate denial.

[IcanzIIravor]

you are one stupid f*ck, no wonder your wife bailed

Damn that's harsh. Let's keep it above the belt. Now with that said I hope Dooms isn't jumping on the dust band wagon when there are photos alongside articles detailing the debris and such left over when the towers collapsed. I know Dooms can't be that far gone.

[ballup]

woah, this thread exploded since a couple of hours ago.

[Riddler]

you are one stupid f*ck, no wonder your wife bailed

:D


I hope your marriage is doing good.

[OhNoTimNoSho]

http://files.sharenator.com/Whats_Going_On_In_This_Thread_Huge_Collection_of_R andoms-s400x541-66557.jpg

[Riddler]

http://files.sharenator.com/Whats_Going_On_In_This_Thread_Huge_Collection_of_R andoms-s400x541-66557.jpg





http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv229/Moodester/dees8.jpg


that's what the f*cks going on.

[gts]

http://www.nysm.nysed.gov/exhibits/longterm/documents/recovery.pdf

[TheReturnofCed]

The one reason I will always question 9/11 is that 3 asbestos-laden buildings, which would cost millions to clean up, all fell in an unprecedented manner. When I look into the scientific explanations for how this could possibly happen, I see that everything had to be just right in order for the jet fuel to do enough damage, the right beams to weaken, etc. and I can buy that all of these factors produced a very odd collapse. For one building, this would be an unfortunate combination of factors. Two buildings, hm..pretty weird! Three buildings? Wait a minute...

With that said I'm not buying into any of the theories, including the official one. I don't think anyone will ever know the whole story.

[ballup]

http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv229/Moodester/dees8.jpg


that's what the f*cks going on.
Dammit, I was so sure that Obama was Muslim:rant

[Stuckey]

what about all those witnesses, including firemen and firefighters that heard multiple explosions before the building collapsed

even ppl in the building heard and felt an explosion on the ground level before a plane even hit

the pentagon one is just weird, no bodies, no blood, no big plane parts, ppl in the pentagon mysteriously forced to move rooms a week before the incident

[NashIzGod]

what about all those witnesses, including firemen and firefighters that heard multiple explosions before the building collapsed

even ppl in the building heard and felt an explosion on the ground level before a plane even hit

the pentagon one is just weird, no bodies, no blood, no big plane parts, ppl in the pentagon mysteriously forced to move rooms a week before the incident

Exactly. It looks like a missile hit the Pentagon. Of course, the FBI took the 85 videos of the cameras that were surveying the Pentagon and have not released them to this day.

[Norcaliblunt]

The one reason I will always question 9/11 is that 3 asbestos-laden buildings, which would cost millions to clean up, all fell in an unprecedented manner. When I look into the scientific explanations for how this could possibly happen, I see that everything had to be just right in order for the jet fuel to do enough damage, the right beams to weaken, etc. and I can buy that all of these factors produced a very odd collapse. For one building, this would be an unfortunate combination of factors. Two buildings, hm..pretty weird! Three buildings? Wait a minute...

With that said I'm not buying into any of the theories, including the official one. I don't think anyone will ever know the whole story.


:cheers:


This guy is thinking clearly.

[Meticode]

Exactly. It looks like a missile hit the Pentagon. Of course, the FBI took the 85 videos of the cameras that were surveying the Pentagon and have not released them to this day.
So are you saying the plane wreckage they found at the Pentagon was planted then?

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/ats/pentagon757/planeparts-1.jpg

Some people argued that the path of the plane would've knocked out light poles from the ground, so because there were no light poles knocked out by the plane's wings it couldn't of been a plane...

but in fact there were light poles knocked out by the plane...
http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/1.jpg

Small debris from the plane itself
http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/13.jpg

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/ats/pentagon757/camera1b.gif

[miller-time]

the pentagon one is just weird, no bodies, no blood, no big plane parts, ppl in the pentagon mysteriously forced to move rooms a week before the incident

have people just gone ****ing mental?

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/911victims/?&page=1

this is the problem, even if there is some conspiracy or even just inaccuracies with the official report, people are convoluting the issue by including falsified theories and misinformation.

[Meticode]

have people just gone ****ing mental?

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/911victims/?&page=1

this is the problem, even if there is some conspiracy or even just inaccuracies with the official report, people are convoluting the issue by including falsified theories and misinformation.
Agreed. There's actual released photos that they had during a trial for some of the terrorists involved that showed charred and burned bodies at the Pentagon.

[Hazard]

I want an official investigation, not some bullshit widely accepted propaganda. If 9/11 really wasn't an inside job then why do politicians act shady every time they're asked about it? I want all the facts on the table, until that day I will never stop questioning. Call me w/e you want, that's my thought process and always will be.

PS this ****in thread really got out of control.

[shlver]

The one reason I will always question 9/11 is that 3 asbestos-laden buildings, which would cost millions to clean up, all fell in an unprecedented manner. When I look into the scientific explanations for how this could possibly happen, I see that everything had to be just right in order for the jet fuel to do enough damage, the right beams to weaken, etc. and I can buy that all of these factors produced a very odd collapse. For one building, this would be an unfortunate combination of factors. Two buildings, hm..pretty weird! Three buildings? Wait a minute...

With that said I'm not buying into any of the theories, including the official one. I don't think anyone will ever know the whole story.
Please explain what you mean by "just right."

[puppychili]

Watch this show and then talk to me.

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/episode/9-11-science-and-conspiracy-4067#tab-Videos/07095_00