30 f0r 30 on now FAB FIVE ESPN

[PP34Deuce]

This is turning out to be great...Juwan Howard was the major piece they got to get Ray Jackson and Jimmy King.

[PP34Deuce]

Wow I did not know Jimmy Walker was Jalen Rose dad.

[pete's montreux]

Wow I did not know Jimmy Walker was Jalen Rose dad.

I had this ESPN.com article written about this in my favorites, but I can't find it right now. I'll get back to you if I do.

[Rake2204]

Well the opening sequence gave me goosebumps, so that's a start. This is like Christmas to me.

[pete's montreux]

found it

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=Rose-Walker&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos1

very good read

[PP34Deuce]

LOL its funny how Webber went to private school and assistant coach of MI said he was conflicted to try to act like a tough guy even tho he came up from upper class.

[PP34Deuce]

Jalen Rose is being DEEEP in this... talking about uncle toms, and DUke....

[DuMa]

Webber decided not to give his modern day interpreation/interviews?

its amazing that Grant Hill and Juwan Howard are still playing today in the NBA. especially Grant. it feels so long ago

[kaiiu]

lol they took the white dude out:roll: :roll:
" I thought he was a overrated pu$$y"
" He was a b!Tch"

[PP34Deuce]

Webber decided not to give his modern day interpreation/interviews?

its amazing that Grant Hill and Juwan Howard are still playing today in the NBA. especially Grant. it feels so long ago

I think because he was the one who accepted the most money out of them all. Jalen and Juwan were found to not have accepted large amounts in gifts.

[Rake2204]

LOL its funny how Webber went to private school and assistant coach of MI said he was conflicted to try to act like a tough guy even tho he came up from upper class.
He wanted to go to Southwestern with Jalen. Jalen played on the same squad as Howard Eisley and Voshon Lenard.

Another note, the guard who missed that last three against Duke in Michigan's first meeting with them in 1991 was Rob Pelinka, Kobe Bryant's future lawyer.



lol they took the white dude out:roll: :roll:
" I thought he was a overrated pu$$y"
" He was a b!Tch"
That's exactly how it was though. I forgot about "College All-American" Christian Laettner through his years in the NBA, but watching him dunk against Michigan made my blood boil all over again.

[DuMa]

this doesnt feel right without CWebb's comments :\

[kaiiu]

this doesnt feel right without CWebb's comments :\
why he aint on here??

[Tarik One]

Wow I did not know Jimmy Walker was Jalen Rose dad.

I actually thought you were referring to JJ from Good Times until I opened the link.

[TonyD]

why he aint on here??

Jalen was on The BS Report podcast earlier this week and he spoke in depth about this documentary. Said some moments might have been too painful/embarrassing for Webb to revisit.

[Rake2204]

I hope a lot of you guys are checking this out. It is excellent.

[PP34Deuce]

Forgot how freakishly athletic Chris Webber was in college and first 3 years in the league.

[STATUTORY]

I'm gonna watch dis first chance I get. I wonder if Jalen and Cwebb still talk? they both played in da NBA during same time span

[kaiiu]

The Ohio State Fvckeyes :lol

[dak121]

Juwan Howard doing the cabbage patch.

Oh my.

[DuMa]

those pregame warmup uniforms were awful. they looked like a gospel choir. so incredibly baggy

[StacksOnDeck]

those pregame warmup uniforms were awful. they looked like a gospel choir. so incredibly baggy

Like an asian knows fashion. :rolleyes:

[Rake2204]

those pregame warmup uniforms were awful. they looked like a gospel choir. so incredibly baggy
Our high school warm-ups had the same exact design. Even when we switched over to a new set, I still rocked the Fab Five jacket.


I'm gonna watch dis first chance I get. I wonder if Jalen and Cwebb still talk? they both played in da NBA during same time span

Pretty sure they're still tight. I remember watching the Best Damned Sports Show Period (on accident) and Jalen surprised Chris on there and they were talking just like old times. They were talking about 1990's things that I knew about. It was great.

Edit: Here's that clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onmfcvEnqeA

[GOBB]

Chris Webber didnt want to cry again on camera if he would have appeared on this. :oldlol:

[DuMa]

lol bill walton was a hater

[Rake2204]

I still have a lot of love for Steve Fisher.

[EoJ]

Heres a link http://www.soccertvlive.net/watch/49043/1/watch-espn.html

[PP34Deuce]

Wow ULTIMATE meltdown..didnt know he travelled too

[kaiiu]

damn I feel bad for Webber

[DuMa]

heartbreaking loss. straight panic from a college kid.

[50inchvertical]

:lol at # 14. Where the **** is he at? Let's find that dude.

I have always had a lot of respect for Juwan Howard, and moreso Jalen Rose and Chris Webber. They both come off as really standup dudes now and are always candid in interviews, the true epitome of "keeping it real."

:oldlol: at Walton hating, calling them overrated when they just made the national championship game.

[blacknapalm]

always bring up the fact a couple players on bench were signaling or calling for TO. webber still doesn't want to talk about it to this day. sucks that part is more overshadowed than four freshman making it to the nat'l championship. shows you how powerful little moments are. absolute glory or forever in defeat.

[DuMa]

i remember those gatorade coke style cans. they were tasty.

[GOBB]

Webber still stung over that play.

[pete's montreux]

Webber still stung over that play.

wouldnt you be? :confusedshrug:

[Jailblazers7]

Webber still stung over that play.

That shit would eat me up for eternity.

[DuMa]

jeez no wonder webber didnt want to be a part of the film. its directly asking him to say sorry. the film is actually saying webber is the main reason why the UM program fell apart. thats pretty grueseome.

[KOBEtherealKing]

Ray jackson look like he could be lebron james father

[Rake2204]

My completely and entirely biased opinion is that that was one of my best documentaries of all time.

[RainierBeachPoet]

although i enjoyed his talent over the years, i always thought webber was a punk

especially what he did to the warriors and nellie his rookie year showed me his lack of character

with webber never taking responsibility for his mistakes that hurt his team and the fact that he did not want to participate in this documentary, shows me that his lack of character was not a figment of media coverage

rose and howard matured; webber has polished his pubic persona, but is still a punk-- just a bit older now.

[Fawker]

it wasn't like they were being supplied with drugs. so stupid. monetary support does not bring competitive edge in college.

[Jailblazers7]

I definitely did come away impressed by Jalen Rose. He seems like a great guy.

[AMISTILLILL]

lol bill walton was a hater

Seriously. Such typical comments from Bill Walton. Taking the exact opposite stance on whatever other people are saying just to start shit and sound profound.

Great documentary.

[dynasty1978]

My completely and entirely biased opinion is that that was one of my best documentaries of all time.

Agreed 100%. Any other Fab 5 fans watching those last seconds of the UM/Carolina game, begging Chris not to call timeout? I've never felt so terrible for one of my favorite players.

[AMISTILLILL]

Agreed 100%. Any other Fab 5 fans watching those last seconds of the UM/Carolina game, begging Chris not to call timeout? I've never felt so terrible for one of my favorite players.

With the bad luck that's struck that dude during his days of playing you would have thought he got drafted by the Clippers or Blazers or something. Talk about cursed.

[GOBB]

Gotta love Michigan demanding Webber apologize. How about you take your fingers and thrust them up your ass. You made multi millions off the Fab 5. Shut the hell up.

Webber lost pts for throwing dude under the bus like he did. That was foul.


wouldnt you be? :confusedshrug:

I wouldve eventually got over it.

[50inchvertical]

Mitch Alborn bought up a great point, and what CWebb did (or allegedly) isn't even illegal anymore. Guys secure loans all the time now in between their time as an amateur and prior to becoming a pro, based on the premise that they will be able to pay it back in the near future, similar to how Gloria James bought LeBron the Hummer despite living in public housing.


I mean, he's accused of 280k in his 2 yrs at Michigan. Where the ****, and what did he do with it? He can't possibly have been taking it over the entirety of his tenure there or even during the same time he was playing basketball.

That's probably why he doesn't like to revisit it GOBB. He likely feels like they made all that money off him and his boys and then quickly turned and threw them under the bus and scapegoated them, not having their back.

[pete's montreux]

Seriously. Such typical comments from Bill Walton. Taking the exact opposite stance on whatever other people are saying just to start shit and sound profound.

Great documentary.

Except he was completely and utterly correct in all his comments.

[Rake2204]

Gotta love Michigan demanding Webber apologize. How about you take your fingers and thrust them up your ass. You made multi millions off the Fab 5. Shut the hell up.

Webber lost pts for throwing dude under the bus like he did. That was foul.

I agree on both regards. I'm upset Mr. Brandon made that statement, only because I think it's going to drive UM and Webber further apart still. I just envision this glorious day in 2013 when they all return and I really want it to happen.

Regarding Webber's comments on Martin, yeah, cringe-worthy. I'd never seen that news conference before. I think Webber was afraid, and I think he was reading exactly what his lawyer wanted him to read.



I definitely did come away impressed by Jalen Rose. He seems like a great guy.
It felt like being visited by an old friend. That's the Jalen Rose I've always known since '91. The Jalen Rose we see on TV and ESPN, that's just an actor. That's not real Jalen. This documentary was real Jalen, and it was great to see.

[pete's montreux]

Gotta love Michigan demanding Webber apologize. How about you take your fingers and thrust them up your ass. You made multi millions off the Fab 5. Shut the hell up.

Webber lost pts for throwing dude under the bus like he did. That was foul.



I wouldve eventually got over it.

Nope.

[AMISTILLILL]

Except he was completely and utterly correct in all his comments.

Debatable.

[Notorious D.M.C]

I definitely did come away impressed by Jalen Rose. He seems like a great guy.

yup.

[Rake2204]

Also, I'm ordering this flim right now.

[AMISTILLILL]

It felt like being visited by an old friend. That's the Jalen Rose I've always known since '91. The Jalen Rose we see on TV and ESPN, that's just an actor. That's not real Jalen. This documentary was real Jalen, and it was great to see.

Yeah, the dude as a commentator has always aggravated me to no end. Super stiff. It's like ABC and ESPN are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole using him for analysis. His personality doesn't shine through.

I was stoked to see the real Jalen Rose.

[STATUTORY]

anyone knowing when they reshowing this or if it's online anywhere. I got see what Jalen Rose has to say about them uncle toms y'all

[DuMa]

Webber seems like a secure guy now on tv. always having fun on TV and probably is very secure financially. Some day i hope he would reveal what happened in his point of view truthfully. Everyone has to face their past sooner or later. Im just wondering what Webber could possibly have to hide?

[StateProperty]

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2011/03/10/alg_michigan-fab-5.jpg

Juwan's barber >>

[pete's montreux]

Debatable.

How? He said they were overrated and underachieved. That's EXACTLY what they were.

Walton has certainly said some dumb shit over the years, but he was right on with this one.

[DetroitPiston]

jeez no wonder webber didnt want to be a part of the film. its directly asking him to say sorry. the film is actually saying webber is the main reason why the UM program fell apart. thats pretty grueseome.

As a UM student and fan, I blame UM for letting the basketball program fall apart. Things like bad coach hires and UM ignoring basketball are why we fell apart.

Still, being able to say Fab Five and promote one of the coolest college towns is a nice draw to have, I just don't think UM ever emphasized it.

[AMISTILLILL]

How? He said they were overrated and underachieved. That's EXACTLY what they were.

Walton has certainly said some dumb shit over the years, but he was right on with this one.

Overrated is opinion. There is no 'right' or 'wrong' about it. Clearly if documentaries are developed and given national television airplay they made some lasting impact worthy of reflecting upon. Same can be said for underachieving. Because they didn't win titles they underachieved..?

Let's not feign ignorance to the fact that Walton wasn't speaking with heartfelt analysis at the core of his comments. He was just being Bill Walton.

[Rake2204]

anyone knowing when they reshowing this or if it's online anywhere. I got see what Jalen Rose has to say about them uncle toms y'all
I know it can be bought at iTunes or Amazon.com.



As a UM student and fan, I blame UM for letting the basketball program fall apart. Things like bad coach hires and UM ignoring basketball are why we fell apart.

Stupid Brian Ellerbe.

[50inchvertical]

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2011/03/10/alg_michigan-fab-5.jpg

Juwan's barber >>
Juwan I think has a live in barber or does his own. Dude has never not had a fresh lineup since his UM days, never see him looking all scruffy like Sheed or Duncan. He always looks like he just stepped right out the chair onto the court, Finley too.

[pete's montreux]

Overrated is opinion. There is no 'right' or 'wrong' about it. Clearly if documentaries are developed and given national television airplay they made some lasting impact worthy of reflecting upon. Same can be said for underachieving. Because they didn't win titles they underachieved..?

Let's not feign ignorance to the fact that Walton wasn't speaking with heartfelt analysis at the core of his comments. He was just being Bill Walton.
It was clearly stated in the documentary that most of their popularity was due to hype and cultural impact. And then they lost two championships. Overrated and underachieved. It's evident that you hate Bill Walton. Arguing with you is already wasting time.

[AMISTILLILL]

It was clearly stated in the documentary that most of their popularity was due to hype and cultural impact. And then they lost two championships. Overrated and underachieved. It's evident that you hate Bill Walton. Arguing with you is already wasting time.

Why is everybody on this board so needlessly testy? Jesus Christ. You can't even discuss opinions back and forth without it downgrading into 'you're wasting my time' or troll accusations.

Lighten up, buddy. You said yourself Walton has said some straight up BONEHEAD shit, but I reiterate the fact and I hate the guy. Got it. Sensible logic at work.

[50inchvertical]

They made the national championship game starting all freshmen, twice (obviously they would no longer be freshmen the 2nd time), and both times lost in the final seconds. However good they thought they were, they had good reason to believe that.
Why is everybody on this board so needlessly testy? Jesus Christ. You can't even discuss opinions back and forth without it downgrading into 'you're wasting my time' or troll accusations.

because it's the internet

[Jailblazers7]

It was clearly stated in the documentary that most of their popularity was due to hype and cultural impact. And then they lost two championships. Overrated and underachieved. It's evident that you hate Bill Walton. Arguing with you is already wasting time.

Considering 2 national championship appearances underachieving is holding them to pretty damn high standard. They are one of the few college basketball teams in history that I would consider it absolutely absurd but I still wouldn't say they underchieved.

[RainierBeachPoet]

My completely and entirely biased opinion is that that was one of my best documentaries of all time.

not even close (hoops dreams is the best basketball documentaries of all time)-- the fab five doc is incomplete without webber's commentary-- which would have made it much more interesting


Mitch Alborn bought up a great point, and what CWebb did (or allegedly) isn't even illegal anymore. Guys secure loans all the time now in between their time as an amateur and prior to becoming a pro, based on the premise that they will be able to pay it back in the near future, similar to how Gloria James bought LeBron the Hummer despite living in public housing.


I mean, he's accused of 280k in his 2 yrs at Michigan. Where the ****, and what did he do with it? He can't possibly have been taking it over the entirety of his tenure there or even during the same time he was playing basketball.

That's probably why he doesn't like to revisit it GOBB. He likely feels like they made all that money off him and his boys and then quickly turned and threw them under the bus and scapegoated them, not having their back.

the amount of money that the ncaa makes off of athletes is a whole different subject...

you missed the main point: he lied to a grand jury about it. and then in trying to explain it when he was on the kings, he threw the guy under the bus accusing him of exploitation. the guy's son and jalen rose's perspective paints a different picture and relationship

[DuMa]

They made the national championship game starting all freshmen, twice (obviously they would no longer be freshmen the 2nd time), and both times lost in the final seconds. However good they thought they were, they had good reason to believe that.
because it's the internet

they lost the first national championship loss by 20 to duke.

[Rake2204]

I also liked Juwan's last line regarding his status with the Miami Heat. I have to admit, through all the years, Jalen, Chris and Juwan became less and less associated with the Fab Five to me. I mean, I could look at a picture of the Fab Five and say, "Yep, there they are: Chris, Jalen, Juwan, Ray and Jimmy" but the NBA vet versions of J, Chris, and Howard almost seemed like different people entirely. Tonight reminded me they're all who I remembered them to be. To me, it felt like Juwan was acknowledging, "Hey, I know what a lot of people think of me now - 17 year vet, merely contributing, winding down. But guess what, I'm Juwan Howard from the Fab Five." It was like that moment in Hook when everyone realizes Robin Williams was Peter Pan.

[DetroitPiston]

Making the national championship as freshmen, then as sophomores is quite remarkable. Don't see how it can be called as overrated by Bill Walton, who can come up with some disagreeable things.

[L.Kizzle]

anyone knowing when they reshowing this or if it's online anywhere. I got see what Jalen Rose has to say about them uncle toms y'all
It's on ESPN2 right now. It'll probably be on ESPN Classic sometime later this week.

[pete's montreux]

Considering 2 national championship appearances underachieving is holding them to pretty damn high standard. They are one of the few college basketball teams in history that I would consider it absolutely absurd but I still wouldn't say they underchieved.

They said many times that they were the better team. So why didn't they win? Because they underachieved. THAT team should've won back to back championships and they didn't.

[UwishUhadWall]

Watching both the Fab Five and UNLV documentaries, it seems to me that the Fab Five were just UNLV wannabes. I mean UNLV came first and they actually won something.

[50inchvertical]

they lost the first national championship loss by 20 to duke.
:oldlol: do'oh. misremembered, I'm thinking of Jamal Mashburn's WyldKats with the Duke loss mixing in with this memory

[pete's montreux]

Why is everybody on this board so needlessly testy? Jesus Christ. You can't even discuss opinions back and forth without it downgrading into 'you're wasting my time' or troll accusations.

Lighten up, buddy. You said yourself Walton has said some straight up BONEHEAD shit, but I reiterate the fact and I hate the guy. Got it. Sensible logic at work.

Why is everyone on this board so presumptuous? I'm completely calm, thanks PAL.

You've said many times unprovoked how much you dislike Bill Walton, and I made the mistake of trying to defend his statements to someone who clearly has his mind made up on the man. You're not of sound mind to argue with on such a subject. I'd rather spend quality time arguing with someone who I know is level-headed. Don't take it personal, buddy.

[Rake2204]

not even close (hoops dreams is the best basketball documentaries of all time)-- the fab five doc is incomplete without webber's commentary-- which would have made it much more interesting.
Oh I agree. I wanted to make a definitive statement about this film because I really, really enjoyed it. At first I wrote it was just one of my favorite docs of all time but it didn't sound definitive enough to measure my excitement, so I edited it.

I love Hoop Dreams too. Though, to be honest, as a kid I read the book multiple times and I remember being disappointed with how boring the movie was. I didn't mess with it for years. Clearly, as I grew, I saw the error of my ways. The film moves me to tears. Strangely (but awesomely) my little brothers can't get enough of Hoop Dreams. The 9th grader watched it 3 times in two weeks, which is pretty legit considering its length. They're going to love the Fab Five too.

Also, I was definitely worried beforehand about the absence of Webber. However, I'm pleased to say that I felt the film held up very, very well without him. Surely, to hear explanations on a lot of things would have been great. But I felt a lot of the actions and Webber interviews used stands for itself. It didn't feel like he was missing.

[AMISTILLILL]

They said many times that they were the better team. So why didn't they win? Because they underachieved. THAT team should've won back to back championships and they didn't.

You were around five years old when this team assembled and six when they played their last game together.

How exactly do you rationalize commenting on this teams worth and discussing how this team was received during that period of time when you likely weren't even AWARE of them at the time? You posture as if you were around to see it all unfold. You're watching YouTube clips and reading Wikipedia articles about it.

Sorry dude, but saying this team 'underachieved' because they didn't go all the way basically discredits any and all teams in the past who simply lost to better teams.

[pete's montreux]

Hoop Dreams isn't just a great sports documentary, It's one of the greatest documentaries overall.

[pete's montreux]

You were around five years old when this team assembled and six when they played their last game together.

How exactly do you rationalize commenting on this teams worth and discussing how this team was received during that period of time when you likely weren't even AWARE of them at the time? You posture as if you were around to see it all unfold. You're watching YouTube clips and reading Wikipedia articles about it.

Sorry dude, but saying this team 'underachieved' because they didn't go all the way basically discredits any and all teams in the past who simply lost to better teams.


Why is everyone on this board so presumptuous?

Holy shit did I call this one.

[Rake2204]

Hoop Dreams isn't just a great sports documentary, It's one of the greatest documentaries overall.
In my case, that's exactly it. As a young hoops fiend, I was looking for spectacular basketball action. I was NBA-obsessed when I first watched it in elementary school. It bored me.

It wasn't until about six years ago when a girlfriend of mine told me her professor recommended Hoop Dreams as one of the best documentaries of all-time that I gave it another look. And you're right, it extends past the simple "sports doc" mold and I actually appreciate it more for what I can take out of it from a life perspective, to watch those two lives. I never understood the breadth of what was occurring when I watched it as a youngster.

I should really buy a DVD version of Hoop Dreams to replace my VHS copy.

[AMISTILLILL]

Holy shit did I call this one.

...okay? I don't see how any of that is presumptive. Perhaps exaggerating that all you did to learn about the team was watch YouTube videos and read Wikipedia articles. Am I to assume you came about your apparent wealth of knowledge about the subject through clairvoyance?

Thinking Bill Walton is a windbag doesn't exactly warrant a 'hate' tag line but, hey, I'm pretty liberal. Do what you must.

[EllEffEll]

Context: Walton walked the walk when he actually won two national titles, led UCLA to 77 straight victories and was the Naismith POTY three times. I could see a person of his accomplishments feeling that the Fab Five were overrated and that after all of the hype they garnered, they ultimately did underachieve.
=======
They show highlights of one game like they are knocking their opponents back to the stone age and then UM is behind 31-30 at halftime :oldlol:

Interesting and very compelling at times, and I appreciate some of the candid recollections, but there were a million things I wish they hadn't exaggerated quite so much :wtf: and that lowered the credibility a bit for me.

Overall, very much worth taking the time to watch it.

[FrenchDude]

This needs to be on youtube asap

[1987_Lakers]

This documentary made Chris Webber look like a total asshole.

[L.Kizzle]

This documentary made Chris Webber look like a total asshole.
He was a young guy.

[1987_Lakers]

He was a young guy.
How about his 2002 press conference talking about Ed Martin? Even Jalen Rose was upset about that.

[DeronMillsap]

This documentary made Chris Webber look like a total asshole.
Well, he was...

[pete's montreux]

...okay? I don't see how any of that is presumptive. Perhaps exaggerating that all you did to learn about the team was watch YouTube videos and read Wikipedia articles. Am I to assume you came about your apparent wealth of knowledge about the subject through clairvoyance?

Thinking Bill Walton is a windbag doesn't exactly warrant a 'hate' tag line but, hey, I'm pretty liberal. Do what you must.

I'll play. I was...8 when they went to their second championship game, watched almost their entire season with my older brother. He was obsessed with them back then and I was along for the ride. We've been talking about this documentary non-stop for two weeks.

I don't love them or hate them, I'm completely indifferent. It's an interesting story, I just remembered the good times I had back then with my brother and we got to watch it together tonight and reminisce over some beers.

I do remember some from back then, but not a lot. I've been a sports fan my whole life, so to say I had no knowledge of this team and situation before tonight was presumptuous on your part.

[RainierBeachPoet]

This documentary confirmed that Chris Webber is a total asshole.

fixed

[L.Kizzle]

How about his 2002 press conference talking about Ed Martin? Even Jalen Rose was upset about that.
I haven't seen that part yet.

[pete's montreux]

In my case, that's exactly it. As a young hoops fiend, I was looking for spectacular basketball action. I was NBA-obsessed when I first watched it in elementary school. It bored me.

It wasn't until about six years ago when a girlfriend of mine told me her professor recommended Hoop Dreams as one of the best documentaries of all-time that I gave it another look. And you're right, it extends past the simple "sports doc" mold and I actually appreciate it more for what I can take out of it from a life perspective, to watch those two lives. I never understood the breadth of what was occurring when I watched it as a youngster.

I should really buy a DVD version of Hoop Dreams to replace my VHS copy.

I had almost the same experience. Saw it when I was younger and appreciated only the sports aspect of it, then saw it much later in life and realized there was much more than sports being displayed. It's a truly wonderful documentary. It's a portal into humanity.

[Heilige]

This documentary made Chris Webber look like a total asshole.


What about Jalen Rose saying all the black players on Duke are Uncle Toms? That comes across as a very disrespectful thing to say. He is disrespecting the model members of his race by belittling them with a stupid ass nickname.

Seems that the blacks that go on and on about Uncle Toms are the most backwards low lifes.

[L.Kizzle]

What about Jalen Rose saying all the black players on Duke are Uncle Toms? That comes across as a very disrespectful thing to say. He is disrespecting the model members of his race by belittling them with a stupid ass nickname.

Seems that the blacks that go on and on about Uncle Toms are the most backwards low lifes.
He explained himself why he thought like that.

[UwishUhadWall]

What about Jalen Rose saying all the black players on Duke are Uncle Toms? That comes across as a very disrespectful thing to say. He is disrespecting the model members of his race by belittling them with a stupid ass nickname.

Seems that the blacks that go on and on about Uncle Toms are the most backwards low lifes.

He was talking about how he felt at the time as an 18 year old straight out of the inner city. Webber was still acting like a douche in his 30's.

[DuMa]

What about Jalen Rose saying all the black players on Duke are Uncle Toms? That comes across as a very disrespectful thing to say. He is disrespecting the model members of his race by belittling them with a stupid ass nickname.

Seems that the blacks that go on and on about Uncle Toms are the most backwards low lifes.

he said he didnt hate the members of duke, just hated his situation compared to other situations of duke players. i dont condone what he said but he was very real about it and thats the least you could ask anyone to do with their lives.

[GOBB]

Nope.

That sucks you would still hold it in. I'd let it go tho.

[L.Kizzle]

What's gona happen in 2013 when the ban against Webber is lifted? Are they gonna retire number 5.

[get these NETS]

haven't watched it yet, but

I think either Webber was threatened/extorted and threw the game when they lost to NC .


I have no proof, but grabbing the rebound....clearing out....TRAVELING....looking at the ref to see if he called it.......then dribbling and calling a timeout you didn't have?


NO WAY...


they had gone to the finals the year before...and had media circus/march madness atmosphere around them the entire sophomore year.... you mean to tell me that C Webb all of a sudden can't take the pressure and chockes?

NO...

[GOBB]

What about Jalen Rose saying all the black players on Duke are Uncle Toms? That comes across as a very disrespectful thing to say. He is disrespecting the model members of his race by belittling them with a stupid ass nickname.

Seems that the blacks that go on and on about Uncle Toms are the most backwards low lifes.

You sound stupid. Do me a favor and watch the reply. Jalen Rose explains what he meant.

[amare68]

anyone got link i missed it! would be great

[L.Kizzle]

haven't watched it yet, but

I think either Webber was threatened/extorted and threw the game when they lost to NC .


I have no proof, but grabbing the rebound....clearing out....TRAVELING....looking at the ref to see if he called it.......then dribbling and calling a timeout you didn't have?


NO WAY...


they had gone to the finals the year before...and had media circus/march madness atmosphere around them the entire sophomore year.... you mean to tell me that C Webb all of a sudden can't take the pressure and chockes?

NO...
Why would you throw a game if you are gonna be the number 1 draft pick in a few months?

[InspiredLebowski]

What's gona happen in 2013 when the ban against Webber is lifted? Are they gonna retire number 5.Nothing. I'll be surprised if Webber ever sets foot on campus again. Really none of them have expressed any kinship towards the actual university.

[DuMa]

What's gona happen in 2013 when the ban against Webber is lifted? Are they gonna retire number 5.

#4 :facepalm:

#5 was Rose. and no Webber will probably never associate himself with the Michigan program ever again

[GOBB]

haven't watched it yet, but

I think either Webber was threatened/extorted and threw the game when they lost to NC .


I have no proof, but grabbing the rebound....clearing out....TRAVELING....looking at the ref to see if he called it.......then dribbling and calling a timeout you didn't have?


NO WAY...


they had gone to the finals the year before...and had media circus/march madness atmosphere around them the entire sophomore year.... you mean to tell me that C Webb all of a sudden can't take the pressure and chockes?

NO...

What are you talkin about? Watch the documentary. Webber grabs RB and travels. He looks up the court and dribbles towards the bench. A teammate after he travelled signaled TIMEOUT. He ran to the corner as UNC trapped him and he had no choice to pick up the dribble. He heard someone say timeout. A teammate Eric Riley confirmed it was said. And half the people knew they had timeouts, the other half didnt. Then Webber screams why yall tell me to call a timeout, f*ck!

If anything was fixed it was UNLV vs Duke. Not this incident.

[InspiredLebowski]

Anyone but Webber or Steve Fisher taking the blame for the TO is extremely dumb. As a head coach you make it more than clear to your team you have no timeouts in a situation like that and as the leader and best player on your team it's on you to know the situation. Dude was practically a junior, there's no "inexperienced" argument to be made. Webber and Fisher ****ed up, that's the end of the story.

[GOBB]

Anyone but Webber or Steve Fisher taking the blame for the TO is extremely dumb. As a head coach you make it more than clear to your team you have no timeouts in a situation like that and as the leader and best player on your team it's on you to know the situation. Dude was practically a junior, there's no "inexperienced" argument to be made. Webber and Fisher ****ed up, that's the end of the story.

How did Fisher screw up when he told everyone more than once? Webber fault. No one elses.

[InspiredLebowski]

How did Fisher screw up when he told everyone more than once? Webber fault. No one elses.If Fisher told everyone like you said then I agree, it's on no one but Webber. Even if he didn't the blame should go past no one but one of the two.

[L.Kizzle]

How did Fisher screw up when he told everyone more than once? Webber fault. No one elses.
It's Webber's fault, although homie did say you could really here in the huddle. Webb is not usually taking the ball up court so he probably panic and did what most big men would do when getting trapped, call a time out.

Somebody on the bench did scream call a time out as you can see right after, he scream s at somebody saying "why you tell me to call a timeout."

[AlphaWolf24]

It's Webber's fault, although homie did say you could really here in the huddle. Webb is not usually taking the ball up court so he probably panic and did what most big men would do when getting trapped, call a time out.

Somebody on the bench did scream call a time out as you can see right after, he scream s at somebody saying "why you tell me to call a timeout."


Michael Talley motioned with his hands to call a timeout as Webber was dribbling up the court.

But anyways....

A) Webber traveled after he rebounded the ball

B) Webber should have known or asked if they had a timeout...and not relied on his bench in the heat of the moment.

C) They were never getting anywhere without Webber ...so who knows.




Great Doc though...brought back alot of memories.

[get these NETS]

What are you talkin about? Watch the documentary. Webber grabs RB and travels. He looks up the court and dribbles towards the bench. A teammate after he travelled signaled TIMEOUT. He ran to the corner as UNC trapped him and he had no choice to pick up the dribble. He heard someone say timeout. A teammate Eric Riley confirmed it was said. And half the people knew they had timeouts, the other half didnt. Then Webber screams why yall tell me to call a timeout, f*ck!

If anything was fixed it was UNLV vs Duke. Not this incident.

they didn't include the footage of nc trapping/contesting an inbounds pass a few minutes earlier?

mich called timeout...howard in fact...their last one

coach clearly was heard saying we have no timeouts....to the players and the bench


doc. seems to have missed that footage

[GOBB]

B) Webber should have known or asked if they had a timeout...and not relied on his bench in the heat of the moment

In the documentary everyone said the coach said over and over we have no more timeouts. There are no timeouts. Webber didnt need to ask anyone. He knew but in the moment panicked when he got trapped in the corner and picked up his dribble. That decision was no different than a QB throwing an INT he knew soon as it left his hand was a mistake. As a routine ground ball going under your glove. Mental error on Webber part. Happens in sports.

Cant blame it on anyone but himself.

[get these NETS]

Why would you throw a game if you are gonna be the number 1 draft pick in a few months?


being number one pick has nothing to do with threat on your life or your family

[GOBB]

they didn't include the footage of nc trapping/contesting an inbounds pass a few minutes earlier?

mich called timeout...howard in fact...

coach clearly was heard saying we have no timeouts....to the players and the bench


doc. seems to have missed that footage

That was in the documentary I watched. And the players on the doc all said they knew/were told.

[get these NETS]

That was in the documentary I watched. And the players on the doc all said they knew/were told.
you said earlier that half knew half didn't know

[DuMa]

anyway it was probably better that michigan lost. if michigan somehow tied or won that game, NC fans would have never stopped rambling about that travel. it was so blatant, i couldnt believe with the ref standing right next to webber didnt even call it.

[GOBB]

you said earlier that half knew half didn't know

Eric Riley the Center said the bench (teammates) it seemed some didnt know while others did know they had no more timeouts. Howard, Rose, King, Jackson knew but you gonna say Webber didnt? I dont think so. Mental errors in sports happen.

[L.Kizzle]

being number one pick has nothing to do with threat on your life or your family
Webber's family's life was threatened?

[get these NETS]

I still think he threw it..

he cleared out......dribbled up the court and into a corner?


are you kidding...


he had a great handle and court awareness....he dribbles into a corner and gets trapped?


really?

[GOBB]

anyway it was probably better that michigan lost. if michigan somehow tied or won that game, NC fans would have never stopped rambling about that travel. it was so blatant, i couldnt believe with the ref standing right next to webber didnt even call it.

So you rather an entire fanbase talk about the timeout Michigan never had than some UNC fans crying over a travel not called? Makes sense. :facepalm

[GOBB]

I still think he threw it..

he cleared out......dribbled up the court and into a corner?


are you kidding...


he had a great handle and court awareness....he dribbles into a corner and gets trapped?


really?

I once saw Ray Allen miss 3 Fts in a row before. Whoa man, he was pt shaving!

:rolleyes:

[get these NETS]

Webber's family's life was threatened?


I'm speculating but that just to answer your question about why a soon to be NBA star(rich) would throw a game?


not for money, but under threat in my opinion


one of the best games I've EVER seen in my life was same year...same tourney.....Michigan versus UCLA.....OT if I recall...

all the fab five made crucial clutch plays and decisions....I can't believe that tram that under the glare ALL year with teams gunning for them....and playing march madness deep for 2 years.....and your STAR player all of a sudden brainlocks


NO

[L.Kizzle]

I still think he threw it..

he cleared out......dribbled up the court and into a corner?


are you kidding...


he had a great handle and court awareness....he dribbles into a corner and gets trapped?


really?
The last few seconds of a game is different from him running up the court in the middle of the first half.

[DuMa]

So you rather an entire fanbase talk about the timeout Michigan never had than some UNC fans crying over a travel not called? Makes sense. :facepalm

um duh.... a missed traveling violation in that manner in the national championship game being a part of the reason that UNC lost wouldve made basketball so much scrutinized in general. i've much rather have a smaller fanbase whine about the the timeout than a entire world talking about a missed call over and over

[get these NETS]

I once saw Ray Allen miss 3 Fts in a row before. Whoa man, he was pt shaving!

:rolleyes:


terrible comparison...for obvious reasons...


you don't have to agree with me, but don't make flimsy arguments/logic

[GOBB]

terrible comparison...for obvious reasons...


you don't have to agree with me, but don't make flimsy arguments/logic

How is it a terrible comparison? Ray Allen in the playoffs in a critical period of the game missed 3 Fts which was uncharacteristic of him at the FT line.

Chris Webber game on the line dribbles to the bench and gets trapped by UNC and has no choice but to pick up his dribble. He panicks and calls timeout when they had none. Yeah he made that play because someone threatened his families life to throw the game. For what reason? Who knows. Maybe you can speculate some more on that. And yet Webber TIL THIS DAY has witheld this info. I guess when his mother rode the team bus where Webber cried the entire trip home it was because he was happy she didnt get killed. Not the fact for a 2nd year in a row he feels like sh!t again.

Nahhhhh, makes entirely too much sense.

You're not too bright to see in sports history there have been moments where a player who makes a routine play makes an error in judgement and costs his team the game. Its impossible for that to happen unless there was a motive. He ddint throw the game for financial reasons because you cant use that crap excuse. Why? He was going to the NBA. So you run to family threats. Yet nothing was reported by his family. Go figure. Webber threw a man under the bus on TV but not the people who threatened him to call timeout and throw the game for fear his family life was in jeopardy.

Makes total sense. Seriously

:rolleyes:

[AlphaWolf24]

In the documentary everyone said the coach said over and over we have no more timeouts. There are no timeouts. Webber didnt need to ask anyone. He knew but in the moment panicked when he got trapped in the corner and picked up his dribble. That decision was no different than a QB throwing an INT he knew soon as it left his hand was a mistake. As a routine ground ball going under your glove. Mental error on Webber part. Happens in sports.

Cant blame it on anyone but himself.


yup...that's what I was saying..he should have focused and remembered instead of relying on someone else on the bench.

it ultimately comes down to him lapse in focus. Jalen should have cut to the ball.....

hindsight is always 20/20:(

[GOBB]

http://zembla.cementhorizon.com/archives/slugworth.jpg-"Charlie *coughs* Excuse me Chris Webber you better throw the game or else your family will die."

[get these NETS]

How is it a terrible comparison? Ray Allen in the playoffs in a critical period of the game missed 3 Fts which was uncharacteristic of him at the FT line.

Chris Webber game on the line dribbles to the bench and gets trapped by UNC and has no choice but to pick up his dribble. He panicks and calls timeout when they had none. Yeah he made that play because someone threatened his families life to throw the game. For what reason? Who knows. Maybe you can speculate some more on that. And yet Webber TIL THIS DAY has witheld this info. I guess when his mother rode the team bus where Webber cried the entire trip home it was because he was happy she didnt get killed. Not the fact for a 2nd year in a row he feels like sh!t again.

Nahhhhh, makes entirely too much sense.

You're not too bright to see in sports history there have been moments where a player who makes a routine play makes an error in judgement and costs his team the game. Its impossible for that to happen unless there was a motive. He ddint throw the game for financial reasons because you cant use that crap excuse. Why? He was going to the NBA. So you run to family threats. Yet nothing was reported by his family. Go figure. Webber threw a man under the bus on TV but not the people who threatened him to call timeout and throw the game for fear his family life was in jeopardy.

Makes total sense. Seriously

:rolleyes:


I said for obvious reasons..but I guess not that obvious



AGAIN



Webber was a skilled ball handler.....him grabbing a board and pushing it up the court wasn't rare in their offense.....

what is rare.....besides the blatant travel (and trying to get the ref to bail him out)...was a skilled ball handler dribbling into a corner and not staying in the center of the court...



WHY CLEAR out......dribble up the court and not set up the offense, or pass it to your point guard?



free throws are 50% probability regardless of who is shooting them....starting from the other end of the court dribbling in the middle and then going into a corner isn't the same thing as ray allen missing a free throw or 3.

[L.Kizzle]

I think folks make too much about Webb calling a time out.


When you think about it, the Fab Five were down by two points when he called a timeout. They would have had to score just to tie (or a three to take the lead.) I think if they were up one point and he get's trapped and they call a timeout and UNC comes down and hits a free throw than score for the win, than I could see all this nonsense about the aftermath.


Not calling a timeout would have only given them chance to win. It didn't cost them the game cause they were already down, if that makes any sense.

[GOBB]

Webber was a skilled ball handler.....him grabbing a board and pushing it up the court wasn't rare in their offense.....

When has Webber pushed the ball up the court when his team was down 2 with 20 seconds left??????

Yeah thats what I thought.


what is rare.....besides the blatant travel (and trying to get the ref to bail him out)...was a skilled ball handler dribbling into a corner and not staying in the center of the court...

In the documentary as Webber travels he looks up court TOWARDS THE BENCH and Michael Talley is putting up the TIMEOUT SIGN. So Webber sprints towards the bench. He had a mental laspe and FOLDED UNDER PRESSURE. It happens to athletes. Its happened to Webber in the NBA even. Why is this so uncommon, abnormal for you to accept?


WHY CLEAR out......dribble up the court and not set up the offense, or pass it to your point guard?

Because Webber has never handled the ball with 20 seconds left, down 2 in the national title game. Thats why.


free throws are 50% probability regardless of who is shooting them....starting from the other end of the court dribbling in the middle and then going into a corner isn't the same thing as ray allen missing a free throw or 3.

Ray Allen is a 90% FT shooter. Missing 3 in a row is uncommon. He's never to anyones recollection done it before. Yet it happened.

If the game was fixed Webber would have did things during the game. UNC doesnt miss that FT then what? Webber asks to inbound the pass so he can intentonally turn it over? Ok.

Dude paniced, choked. It happens but not in your world. Shame.

Go watch the documentary


P.S Why hasnt anyone exposed/revealed the threat on Webber family? Not Webber. Not his family. Not anyone.

[InspiredLebowski]

I think folks make too much about Webb calling a time out.


When you think about it, the Fab Five were down by two points when he called a timeout. They would have had to score just to tie (or a three to take the lead.) I think if they were up one point and he get's trapped and they call a timeout and UNC comes down and hits a free throw than score for the win, than I could see all this nonsense about the aftermath.


Not calling a timeout would have only given them chance to win. It didn't cost them the game cause they were already down, if that makes any sense.I do absolutely agree with this, seems like some people think he did it when it was tied or UM was up 1 or something. It certainly killed even a chance for them to tie/take the lead though, obviously.

[xcesswee]

I
free throws are 50% probability regardless of who is shooting them....

Just stop arguing before you dig yourself a deeper hole.

[macpierce]

nice documentary, made chris webber seem like a punk though, jalen seemed real though, coming from where he came from and how he played with that edge.

[Stillatitdamnit]

Anyone have a link to the full doc?

[icewill36]

Anyone have a link to the full doc?

http://videobam.com/videos/download/FUhED

[Kingwillball]

Wow watching both the FAB Five and the UNLV Special has brought back memories being in HS at that time both those teams are still to this day my favorite of all time and both transcended the sport to another level in my mind for college the way way MJ, Magic and Bird did for the NBA. The Crazy part and Link to the both those teams is Duke beat both UNLV and Michigan for there back to back titles in 92 and 93. Even though I hated them that Duke team was also one for the Ages...Its Funny being We just had Selection Sunday for this yrs Tourney any one of those 3 Teams would lay the smacketh down on anyone in this yrs Tourney..U don't see special teams like those 2 often anymore in College and all 3 Duke, Mich and UNLV all made back to back championship games with Duke going to 3 in a row. I don't think we will ever see that again where a college team gets to 3 Championship games in a row with the Same core players for all 3 games...almost a golden era looking back on it now.

[Stillatitdamnit]

http://videobam.com/videos/download/FUhED
thanks bro, will rep when it comes back

[Kingwillball]

Forgot how freakishly athletic Chris Webber was in college and first 3 years in the league.


THe same thing could be said about Larry Johnson watching the UNLV documentary yesterday..He was a freak before the back problems.

[UwishUhadWall]

terrible comparison...for obvious reasons...


you don't have to agree with me, but don't make flimsy arguments/logic

Lol. Dude your entire argument is based on the idea that someone, somewhere may have been threatening Chris Webber's life. With absolutely zero evidence to back it up.

[UwishUhadWall]

The Fab Five doc kinda made me feel bad for hating Juwan Howard all these years--because of the whole keeping him instead of Webber and $100 million contract thing. Seems like a pretty cool and personable guy.

[Rake2204]

The Fab Five doc kinda made me feel bad for hating Juwan Howard all these years--because of the whole keeping him instead of Webber and $100 million contract thing. Seems like a pretty cool and personable guy.
That's exactly it, man. Somewhere along the lines, things faded a little. Fab Five Juwan gave way to Franchise-Crippling-Contract Juwan. They seemed like two different people. It was really cool to see all these guys are still who I thought they were.


It's Webber's fault, although homie did say you could really here in the huddle. Webb is not usually taking the ball up court so he probably panic and did what most big men would do when getting trapped, call a time out.

Somebody on the bench did scream call a time out as you can see right after, he scream s at somebody saying "why you tell me to call a timeout."
There's no doubt in my mind he panicked. First of all, there's no way a team could ever simulate the last 20 seconds of a championship game in front of millions of people. So I think that throws a lot of conventional wisdom out the window (the "he never dribbled into the corner and called a time-out he didn't have before this" theory).

Now, my personal feeling has always been that Chris Webber traveled and he knew he traveled. He may have been feeling a lot of pressure before that, but after he traveled I think he went into absolute freak mode. I think he took off as quickly as a he could because his mind may have reasoned out in that split second that he had to go before the official realized he'd walked. I know it sounds irrational in retrospect, but when a player travels like that and hears an entire stadium see it, probably seeing Tar Heels on the bench out of the corner of his eye jumping up and down in protest, I think things get irrational.

Some on UM's bench may have motioned for a time-out, but ultimately it was Webber's responsibility. When he swears and asks his bench, "Why did you tell me to call time-out?" I always felt that was a huge defense mechanism kicking in. As unsavory a maneuver as it may seem, it's natural and normal. There's been numerous moments over my life span where I do something so ridiculously wrong that my first reflex is to find someone else to blame it on superficially. The biggest mistakes are the hardest to come to terms with.

In a weird way I'm thankful we didn't win that game in '93. We lost it fair and square. Had UM won a championship in '92 or '93 then inevitably lost it during the Ed Martin scandel, I think that would have hurt even worse.

[get these NETS]

Lol. Dude your entire argument is based on the idea that someone, somewhere may have been threatening Chris Webber's life. With absolutely zero evidence to back it up.

no, reading is fundamental



my argument is based on webber appearing to choke TWICE in the closing minute of the championship game, when he had played in the championship the YEAR before and had been playing in virtually a final four atmosphere the ENTIRE sophomore season without choking, brainlocking, or panicking.


THAT's what my argument is based on.....


member posed the question to me that Webb was about to be a millionaire in months so why would he throw a game.

I speculated that he was being threatened/extorted

[Rake2204]

no, reading is fundamental



my argument is based on webber appearing to choke TWICE in the closing minute of the championship game, when he had played in the championship the YEAR before and had been playing in virtually a final four atmosphere the ENTIRE sophomore season without choking, brainlocking, or panicking.


THAT's what my argument is based on.....


member posed the question to me that Webb was about to be a millionaire in months so why would he throw a game.

I speculated that he was being threatened/extorted
While it remains true that Webber had been to the Final Four before, I do not believe he'd experienced a moment like he did near the end of the Carolina game (the Duke game turned into a blow out the year before). Further, as I mentioned above, I do not view the travel and the time-out as seperate incidents. My personal feeling (perhaps just as opinionated as your own) is that the travel led to the time-out.

I do not think Webber just happened to make two huge mistakes seperately from one another. I believe he traveled, he knew it, he knew the crowd knew it, he knew North Carolina knew and he was afraid the officials knew it. I think he took off out of control as way of masking his travel. In fact, even while traveling to begin with, his balance was still absent enough that he had to take off with the dribble. Like others said, I feel he then sprinted into the frontcout, got his panicked self into more trouble and did what panicked players do when faced with the prospect of getting tied up and losing possession when down by 2 in the NCAA championship. He called time-out.

[GOBB]

no, reading is fundamental



my argument is based on webber appearing to choke TWICE in the closing minute of the championship game, when he had played in the championship the YEAR before and had been playing in virtually a final four atmosphere the ENTIRE sophomore season without choking, brainlocking, or panicking.


THAT's what my argument is based on.....


member posed the question to me that Webb was about to be a millionaire in months so why would he throw a game.

I speculated that he was being threatened/extorted

Why hasnt anyone exposed/revealed the threat on Webber family? Not Webber. Not his family. Not anyone

:sleeping

[get these NETS]

Why hasnt anyone exposed/revealed the threat on Webber family? Not Webber. Not his family. Not anyone

:sleeping

Listen, maybe you're not getting this.

i, I, I.... i think that this is what happened.

not concerned whether you think that this is what happened, just stating that the pieces don't add up.....anymore than several of the pieces that didn't add up when unlv lost to duke in the final four after having blown them out in finals the previous year

now, if you were serious about debating your point....and had skill at sports debates.....you could bring up the several times that webber choked in clutch situations in the pros to bolster your point about him not just being a clutch player....


instead, you use insults and paper thin arguments refuting my point.


Now, having sen the doc. ( I haven't).....did they mention webber's legal issues regarding his time at UM...and how the wins had to be vacated? and had they won the ring that year....how it would have been invalidated?

you don't think there were people AT the time who knew what kinds of violations webber was committing and could potentially hold that OVER his head.....???

to the tune of having him by the balls and being able to manipulate him?

[GOBB]

Listen, maybe you're not getting this.

i, I, I.... i think that this is what happened.

I think before dinosaurs aliens lived here. They partied. :banana:

I cant prove it. I cant support it. I simply created this story and will now when questioned hide behind "Its my opinion. Its what I think happened." The more people tell me I'm being ridiculous the more I believe my story. Am I stubborn? I wont answer that either, look this is what I believe. Nothing anyone can say will convince me otherwise.


now, if you were serious about debating your point....and had skill at sports debates.....you could bring up the several times that webber choked in clutch situations in the pros to bolster your point about him not just being a clutch player....

I already mentioned it. You skipped over it. Just like you skipped over my questions why no one has exposed/revealed these so called death threats/extorions.

And you still dont attempt to answer it. :oldlol:

Everything was exposed in the documentary. During the whole investigation/scandal. And not one person has hinted or exposed what you claim. Not one. In a world where you can capitalize off exploiting another person. No one leaked a damn thing.

Your belief is nothing more than that of a conspiracy nutjob creating up something. Ask them valid questions they choke under pressure like Webber did. I guess someone is paying you to keep your mouth shut to these answers you avoid providing me to my questions. Perhaps threatening to kill your family "You answer GOBB your family dies." :eek:

Bottomline is you are in denial that the Fab 5 didnt win that game. You cant accept it.

[GOBB]

Interesting stuff here

http://www.jkingsolar.com/

[Kingwillball]

One of lines from the show that stuck with me was at the end where Rose said do U remember what team won championship 5 yrs ago off the top of your head or the names of the UNC starting Lineup that beat Mich ? No, but every college fan still remembers the fab 5..

[Rake2204]

Something I forgot to mention: loved the scene with the Wolverines chanting "Cosby!" and Juwan's interview explaining how he was about to go on the Bill Cosby Show (not knowing Steve Fisher made that part of the Cosby letter up).

[jlip]

Don't know if someone has answered this already in the thread, (I haven't read all the posts.) but can anyone tell me if this is going to reair anytime soon, or where I can watch it? I missed it yesterday.

[steve]

One of lines from the show that stuck with me was at the end where Rose said do U remember what team won championship 5 yrs ago off the top of your head or the names of the UNC starting Lineup that beat Mich ? No, but every college fan still remembers the fab 5..
Oddly, enough, he also asked if anyone could name the starting 5 off that UNC team, and that's something I can do (although it took me a moment to think of their starting small forward).

Also, I know that Rose and the rest of the team felt like they were better than that UNC team, and probably on an individual talent level they were, but UNC had a lot of things going for it that make a really successful college team. They had size up front, they were a smart and experienced team with great coaching. They had a steady and solid point guard, who rarely made mistakes. They were tough defensively and crashed the boards. And they had someone like Donald Williams who could absolutely torch a team, especially if they overlooked spreading their defense. I still think they overlooked an excellent Carolina team a bit after beating Kentucky and it killed them ultimately.

[caliman]

What about Jalen Rose saying all the black players on Duke are Uncle Toms? That comes across as a very disrespectful thing to say. He is disrespecting the model members of his race by belittling them with a stupid ass nickname.

Seems that the blacks that go on and on about Uncle Toms are the most backwards low lifes.


You need to go back and watch it again because he explains exactly what he meant.

[Rake2204]

You need to go back and watch it again because he explains exactly what he meant.
What he felt back then was very real and also very common. I did not have a rough childhood like Jalen Rose but through my time teaching and coaching in the inner-city and reading about the inner-city, it's not that hard to put myself in the shoes of someone on the other side of the socio-economic divide. I believe it can be true to say that Jalen should not put down someone else's fortunate success. But back then, who was around to tell him or teach him that? His father?

[GOBB]

Jimmy King thinks Webber should be the bigger man and apologize to Michigan. Mateen Cleaves thinks Webber owes them nothing. Watched them on espn first and 10 with Skip Bayless.

[steve]

What he felt back then was very real and also very common. I did not have a rough childhood like Jalen Rose but through my time teaching and coaching in the inner-city and reading about the inner-city, it's not that hard to put myself in the shoes of someone on the other side of the socio-economic divide. I believe it can be true to say that Jalen should not put down someone else's fortunate success. But back then, who was around to tell him or teach him that? His father?
Also, it's pretty clear that his viewpoint on the matter has changed dramatically. He goes out of his way to explain that Hill's situation growing up is something that he respects today, but at the time it wasn't something he could relate to and that was frustrating. They were completely right about Laettner though, he just happened to be a very good basketball player too.

[steve]

Jimmy King thinks Webber should be the bigger man and apologize to Michigan. Mateen Cleaves thinks Webber owes them nothing. Watched them on espn first and 10 with Skip Bayless.
I think for guys like Jimmy King and Ray Jackson (even Jalen Rose) it would mean a lot to them to be honored by Michigan for their time there, and they probably see Michigan holding back because of Webber. It also makes sense that people are fed up with college students/players being used by the NCAA and universities to make money without receiving anything back in return (from those two entities that is). The two sides are looking at the same issue from different perspectives and with different motives.

[PP34Deuce]

I think if you happen to be a star in College(numbers,impact,popularity) with documented success regarding Jerseys,name recognition...They should set up a percentage fund for them.

I dont agree you pay these guys to play while in college. but if a player stays for at least 3 years at the college...they get 20 percent like a royalty rate after college.

Its very sketchy, and lawyers would be involved but with enough revision this could be effective. Possibly give players a reason to stay the full 4 years, or 3 if they go pro junior year. They also get money from the jersey sales which could help alleviate excessive booster loans.....

[Rake2204]

I think for guys like Jimmy King and Ray Jackson (even Jalen Rose) it would mean a lot to them to be honored by Michigan for their time there, and they probably see Michigan holding back because of Webber. It also makes sense that people are fed up with college students/players being used by the NCAA and universities to make money without receiving anything back in return (from those two entities that is). The two sides are looking at the same issue from different perspectives and with different motives.
True. I just wish things could be made more right than they are right now. Unfortunately I felt that David Brandon suggesting an outright apology may have only drive both sides further apart.

[wpdougie2180]

Anyone have a link to the UNLV doc?

[Tarik One]

Jimmy King thinks Webber should be the bigger man and apologize to Michigan. Mateen Cleaves thinks Webber owes them nothing. Watched them on espn first and 10 with Skip Bayless.

From watching the documentary as well as the 1st and 10 piece, i think Jimmy still holds resentment towards Webber

[STATUTORY]

What he felt back then was very real and also very common. I did not have a rough childhood like Jalen Rose but through my time teaching and coaching in the inner-city and reading about the inner-city, it's not that hard to put myself in the shoes of someone on the other side of the socio-economic divide. I believe it can be true to say that Jalen should not put down someone else's fortunate success. But back then, who was around to tell him or teach him that? His father?

I understood exactly what he was talkin about man. i didn't have good relationship wit my father when i was young and when I went to the parks and see kids wit they families at picnics and shit. the feeling that would swell up inside me. dang, that's bitter man bitterness.

And most ppl i rolled wit was like me so it just made our existence feel all that more normal. like u were suppose not to have a father. so when we see light skin bruthas like Grant Hill on tv. that hate just surfaced

[Rake2204]

Here is a post from Chris Webber's blog regarding Jalen Rose's "Uncle Tom" comments: http://chriswebber.com/profiles/blogs/my-fathers-brother-thomas

[steve]

Here is a post from Chris Webber's blog regarding Jalen Rose's "Uncle Tom" comments: http://chriswebber.com/profiles/blogs/my-fathers-brother-thomas
It's interesting that he never directly mentions Michigan.

[Tez62]

Zero Big Ten Titles.

Zero National Titles.

They had the games they actually did win stripped. Mitch Albom of course comes in with his normal apologist BS to try and pimp the fab five and, more importantly, his book sales. Jalen was a producer of the show, what is he worried people are forgetting that the fab 5 were popular?? The fact that ESPN is promoting these guys, which have contributed to many of the problems with NCAA basketball today is a joke. Of course they will do anything for ratings, though, and it is a business, so I understand.

[GOBB]

Zero Big Ten Titles.

Zero National Titles.

They had the games they actually did win stripped. Mitch Albom of course comes in with his normal apologist BS to try and pimp the fab five and, more importantly, his book sales. Jalen was a producer of the show, what is he worried people are forgetting that the fab 5 were popular?? The fact that ESPN is promoting these guys, which have contributed to many of the problems with NCAA basketball today is a joke. Of course they will do anything for ratings, though, and it is a business, so I understand.

:rolleyes:

[SkyR#1fanCapCou]

Zero Big Ten Titles.

Zero National Titles.

They had the games they actually did win stripped. Mitch Albom of course comes in with his normal apologist BS to try and pimp the fab five and, more importantly, his book sales. Jalen was a producer of the show, what is he worried people are forgetting that the fab 5 were popular?? The fact that ESPN is promoting these guys, which have contributed to many of the problems with NCAA basketball today is a joke. Of course they will do anything for ratings, though, and it is a business, so I understand.

:bowdown:

[DeronMillsap]

Jimmy King thinks Webber should be the bigger man and apologize to Michigan. Mateen Cleaves thinks Webber owes them nothing. Watched them on espn first and 10 with Skip Bayless.
I saw that, and I do agree with King and Bayless. Skip said Webber doesn't have to actually say "I'm sorry" or admit wrongdoing but at least address the issue to Michigan and the public.

[HB40TheNextStar]

One of lines from the show that stuck with me was at the end where Rose said do U remember what team won championship 5 yrs ago off the top of your head or the names of the UNC starting Lineup that beat Mich ? No, but every college fan still remembers the fab 5..

Of course I can. I only remember 4 of the Fab 5 if you ask me on a random day.


re: the National Championship.


Let's be clear on several things:

-- Webber traveled.
-- They were behind by 2 with the clock ticking under 10 seconds
-- Our two best defensive players had Webber trapped in the corner
-- He had nowhere to go, whatever play they hoped they might have ran was totally busted
-- And, most importantly gang, UNC had THREE, count 'em THREE fouls to give


Ergo, they would have NEVER GOTTEN OFF A SHOT. Before he called the TO, we were going to foul him -- we could totally gamble on everything, because we could foul them and they'd just have to take the ball out of bounds again.

Oh, one more thing -- the reason they didn't have that TO? Early in the second half, Phelps noticed that nobody stayed back to help Webber/Rose with bringing the ball in after a made UNC FT. So, at the FT huddle, he asked Lynch to help him jump the play if we hit the FT. Sure enough, we did, and Webber couldn't throw the ball inbounds to Rose and he called a TO. That was the one he didn't have at the end of the game. So, either way, great defense blew them up and forced a TO. That's not luck, that's great defense, gang.

[Rake2204]

Of course I can. I only remember 4 of the Fab 5 if you ask me on a random day.


re: the National Championship.
Who is speaking in that quote, good sir?

[trig]

its not about the fab 5, its about Eric Montross lol

[Rake2204]

Interesting little sidebar: A couple of main characters from the Fab Five documentary (Chris Webber, Juwan Howard, maybe Jalen Rose) can also be seen at the Nike Camp in the documentary Hoop Dreams.

Someone mentioned the Top Recruits lists we could see during the documentary housing names like Greg Ostertag and Donyell Marshall. It's just as interesting trying to pick out future leaguers at the Nike Camp in Hoop Dreams.

[ProfessorMurder]

Interesting little sidebar: A couple of main characters from the Fab Five documentary (Chris Webber, Juwan Howard, maybe Jalen Rose) can also be seen at the Nike Camp in the documentary Hoop Dreams.

Someone mentioned the Top Recruits lists we could see during the documentary housing names like Greg Ostertag and Donyell Marshall. It's just as interesting trying to pick out future leaguers at the Nike Camp in Hoop Dreams.

Yeah you can definitely see like 8 future NBA players at that Nike camp in Hoop Dreams. I really need to pick that up on dvd. They apparently have like 3 commentaries on it, from the film makers, from the kids in like 2000, and then the kids again from like a few years ago.

[GOBB]

Interesting little sidebar: A couple of main characters from the Fab Five documentary (Chris Webber, Juwan Howard, maybe Jalen Rose) can also be seen at the Nike Camp in the documentary Hoop Dreams.

Someone mentioned the Top Recruits lists we could see during the documentary housing names like Greg Ostertag and Donyell Marshall. It's just as interesting trying to pick out future leaguers at the Nike Camp in Hoop Dreams.

I didnt know Jimmy King was THAT high. Ranked 12. I think 2nd ranked player was James Forrest from Wake Forrest. Also in the Mcdonalds game I noticed Glen Big Dog Robinson. McBeast, sory had to mention Big dog since Ostertag was. I remember the poster Big Dog gave him followed by the finger wave. You dont want none Greg!

Anyone remember Street & Smiths magazine? I was a fan of the college bball editions. Used to collect them and see the future high school talent.

[wpdougie2180]

Interesting little sidebar: A couple of main characters from the Fab Five documentary (Chris Webber, Juwan Howard, maybe Jalen Rose) can also be seen at the Nike Camp in the documentary Hoop Dreams.

Someone mentioned the Top Recruits lists we could see during the documentary housing names like Greg Ostertag and Donyell Marshall. It's just as interesting trying to pick out future leaguers at the Nike Camp in Hoop Dreams.

Rose is definitely visible he's on William Gates team as he said on the BS report Bill Simmons. And mentions that where he blew out his knee at that camp.

[steve]

I didnt know Jimmy King was THAT high. Ranked 12. I think 2nd ranked player was James Forrest from Wake Forrest. Also in the Mcdonalds game I noticed Glen Big Dog Robinson. McBeast, sory had to mention Big dog since Ostertag was. I remember the poster Big Dog gave him followed by the finger wave. You dont want none Greg!
Yeah, I was always high Forrest before he blew out his knee.


Anyone remember Street & Smiths magazine? I was a fan of the college bball editions. Used to collect them and see the future high school talent.
It was either them or Lindy's (I'm pretty sure it was Street & Smith) were bought out by Yahoo.

[the_future02]

not even close (hoops dreams is the best basketball documentaries of all time)-- the fab five doc is incomplete without webber's commentary-- which would have made it much more interesting



the amount of money that the ncaa makes off of athletes is a whole different subject...

you missed the main point: he lied to a grand jury about it. and then in trying to explain it when he was on the kings, he threw the guy under the bus accusing him of exploitation. the guy's son and jalen rose's perspective paints a different picture and relationship


I lost a lot of respect for Webber. Dude was looking out for a bunch of broke kids from the hood and Webber shits on the man when he needed him most

[sundizz]

Does anyone have a trrent link for this, pm me plzzzzzz.....

[sundizz]

Grant Hill EXCELLENT EXCELLENT letter written for the New York Times about the Uncle Tom remarks from Jalen Rose. Haven't watched the documentary yet, can't wait to see it.

http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/grant-hills-response-to-jalen-rose/

[Showtime]

I lost a lot of respect for Webber. Dude was looking out for a bunch of broke kids from the hood and Webber shits on the man when he needed him most
Problem is, he went with the Barry Bonds defense of denial, and has to keep creating lies to back it up.

[acbay91]

anyone knwo when the documentary will re-air? can't seem to find anything about the schedule...which is disappointing because i really wanna see this one :(

[ProfessorMurder]

I lost a lot of respect for Webber. Dude was looking out for a bunch of broke kids from the hood and Webber shits on the man when he needed him most

Why did that guy need defending? Webb was the one on trial, just trying to save face (agents probably made him say it).

[Rake2204]

Webb was the one on trial, just trying to save face (agents probably made him say it).
Yes, I disagree with Webber's statements; it was almost kind of awkward to watch that particular press conference. But like you, I had the feeling that was not sincere Chris Webber evoking his feelings. Rather, I figured that was Chris Webber speaking as if he was scared and scarred by the legal proceedings and was perhaps echoing what his lawyers strongly suggested he say.

Chris Webber really made a mistake there, lying about his involvement with Ed Martin. I think he was in freakout mode and was scattering to throw anything out there that might help save his butt from getting in real deal trouble.


Problem is, he went with the Barry Bonds defense of denial, and has to keep creating lies to back it up.
I initially overlooked this post. I think there is certainly truth to that point as well.

[ProfessorMurder]

Yes, I disagree with Webber's statements; it was almost kind of awkward to watch that particular press conference. But like you, I had the feeling that was not sincere Chris Webber evoking his feelings. Rather, I figured that was Chris Webber speaking as if he was scared and scarred by the legal proceedings and was perhaps echoing what his lawyers strongly suggested he say.

Chris Webber really made a mistake there, lying about his involvement with Ed Martin. I think he was in freakout mode and was scattering to throw anything out there that might help save his butt from getting in real deal trouble.


I initially overlooked this post. I think there is certainly truth to that point as well.

If C-Webb would've just come clean like Rose did it probably would've been fine. I'm sure he was just freaked and his pr people/agents made a really bad call.

That giving money thing happens all the time i.e. see Hoop Dreams when they mention drug dealers buying shoes and the guy in He Got Game.

I do believe that he didn't get 300,000 though. I mean really, like what Albom said, what 19/20 year old wouldn't buy one ritzy item? I could see like 100 grand over the course of 4 years in high school, 2 in college, and then maybe a little once he got drafted and before his checks cleared.

[Meticode]

I just watched this for the first time tonight. While I have great respect for those guys, Rose threw me off with his comment of "Who remembers who won the championship 3 years ago, five years ago? Who remembers who the starting lineup was of the Carolina team that beat us?"

It's almost like he doesn't realize most people look at them in a negative light and that's what they're remembered for. Namely for two reasons. Webber calling that timeout. Unfortunately that's what C-Webb will always be remember for from his basketball career. And the fact they were possibly the best team ever to not win a NCAA title.

His championship comment almost made me go WTF? Because I'm a casual fan and I can name off who's won the last ten NCAA titles.

[SkyR#1fanCapCou]

I just watched this for the first time tonight. While I have great respect for those guys, Rose threw me off with his comment of "Who remembers who won the championship 3 years ago, five years ago? Who remembers who the starting lineup was of the Carolina team that beat us?"

It's almost like he doesn't realize most people look at them in a negative light and that's what they're remembered for. Namely for two reasons. Webber calling that timeout. Unfortunately that's what C-Webb will always be remember for from his basketball career. And the fact they were possibly the best team ever to not win a NCAA title.

His championship comment almost made me go WTF? Because I'm a casual fan and I can name off who's won the last ten NCAA titles.

And the third reason, most of their wins and their Final 4's were stripped from the record books.

[nba_55]

Just saw, it was really amazing.

[D-Rose]

Going to resurrect this thread from the dead...

just saw it on netflix...very good and interesting. Not as good as the 30 for 30 on Bo Jackson though.

[HomieWeMajor]

C-Webb was shaving
If you from the way then you know

[MavsSuperFan]

am i the only one that thinks rose is disloyal for doing this doc against webber's wishes?

[Shabba Ranks]

C-Webb was shaving
If you from the way then you know


why would you bump a 3 year old thread ? reported

[HomieWeMajor]

why would you bump a 3 year old thread ? reported
Snitches get stitches