How do you feel about Jalen Rose's "Uncle Tom" comments towards Duke?

[StateProperty]

Thought this would be good for the OTC since it deals with more of a social problem than basketball. If you missed the documentary, check here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq-Sk8KNFXQ)


He also was on First Take this morning along with Jimmy King to defend his comments while also standing by them. He was asked if he thought Duke would recruit him in this day and age to which he replied "they would recruit my children, not me." He also said that the "Uncle Tom" label was how he felt as a 17 year old kid.

Do you feel the "Uncle Tom" label of black Duke players was over the line? Do you think there is something wrong with the way Duke recruits? (kids from private schools, primarily 2-parent homes, clean record legally and academically, etc.)

Jalen Rose defending his comments on 1st and 10 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDlfp4ADJRE)

[rufuspaul]

Any disparaging remark about Durham Clown College is fine by me.
GO HEELS!

[StateProperty]

Any disparaging remark about Durham Clown College is fine by me.
GO HEELS!
Grant Hill's dad wanted him to go to UNC. umad? :lol

I thought what he said on First Take was funny. Said a bunch of people took to his twitter to write 3 or 4 names that went to Duke and go against the uncle tom label, to which he replied if you can only name 3 or 4 guys you're just proving my point.

[DeronMillsap]

Any disparaging remark about Durham Clown College is fine by me.
GO HEELS!
:rockon: F**k Duke!!!

[JohnnySic]

He is right. Duke is nothing but preppy white guys and black poindexters. Which is why relatively fewer of their players cut the mustard in the NBA compared to the other big programs.

[Sarcastic]

I think there are a lot of truths to his comments. Duke only recruits certain types of kids, but they do that because they can.


On a side note, I was watching the UNLV program on HBO the other day, and they made a comment about the 1991 Final Four game along the lines of "Grant Hill was the best player on the court that day" and it got me thinking about Hill's and Larry Johnson's career. Both players were affected by injury and their careers were changed because of it. But I think Larry Johnson was the better player, and had he not gotten the back injury, I think he would have been better than Grant Hill.

[JtotheIzzo]

He is right. Duke is nothing but preppy white guys and black poindexters. Which is why relatively fewer of their players cut the mustard in the NBA compared to the other big programs.

this theory has been outdated for about fifteen years.

[Patrick Chewing]

He is right. Duke is nothing but preppy white guys and black poindexters. Which is why relatively fewer of their players cut the mustard in the NBA compared to the other big programs.

But these teams win championships.

[StateProperty]

this theory has been outdated for about fifteen years.
+1

They recruit guys they know will stay longer than 1 year. Luol Deng, Corey Maggette, and their recruitment of John Wall are really the only outliers I can think of.

I think the Melo/McNamara championship in '03 was the last time a team won a title without a great group of upperclassmen. The first title won by Florida could be included I guess.

[Thorpesaurous]

I think there are a lot of truths to his comments. Duke only recruits certain types of kids, but they do that because they can.


On a side note, I was watching the UNLV program on HBO the other day, and they made a comment about the 1991 Final Four game along the lines of "Grant Hill was the best player on the court that day" and it got me thinking about Hill's and Larry Johnson's career. Both players were affected by injury and their careers were changed because of it. But I think Larry Johnson was the better player, and had he not gotten the back injury, I think he would have been better than Grant Hill.


I saw that HBO piece and immediately thought of that when they made the Uncle Tom references on The Fab 5.

It's interesting that the two most compelling, not the best, but compelling, college teams of my lifetime had docs done on them within a few weeks of each other.

I don't really disagree with the perception of those Duke players, but at the same time I don't see why their recruiting habits are an issue. What's wrong with recruiting the way they do? Even simply from a basketball standpoint, the kids from a more solid background are less likely to bolt early for the league, which lends to more stability for your team long term. Boeheim has talked about trying to find the top end of the four and three star recruits, and then occasionally swinging for the fences with a five star guy, because that yields you consistency. And the time that Duke deviated from it's model, the Brand/Maggette group, with the PG who's name escapes me at the moment, they won, but they also wound up having that team gutted after a year, and faced NCAA investigations. It probably wasn't worth it when they can be as successfull as they are doing things the way they're doing them now.

I disagree with your Grant Hill not being as good as LJ. I loved LJ, but he was undersized and not a great shooter. He became a better shooter only after the back went on him. He relied too much on what he was physically, and guys like that tend to not age well. He did have great instincts, which is part of what made him so good, but even they weren't as good as Grant Hill's. But I did love LJ, as much for his shortcomings as his gifts. It made him seem tougher.
Those Knick teams are the easiest ones to look at to see how the league has changed. Those teams played almost no small forward. In todays league, Ewing, Oakley, and Charles Smith would all be centers, and all three of them were playing at the same time. LJ, Anthony Mason, and Anthony Bonner would all be PFs, and they all played some SF. The only guys who really played SF were Monty Williams and Doug Christie.

[kaiiu]

Its the truth:violin:

[JtotheIzzo]

anyone have a DL or a stream link where I can watch that UNLV video.

here is a Fab Five one:

http://cosbysweaters.com/2011/03/14/30-for-30-the-fab-five-full-video/

thx!

[JMT]

The real problem is that a kid, given every opportunity in the world in 1990 simply because he could play basketball, would berate those that got opportunities because they could play ball AND worked hard in the classroom.

So what does Rose consider himself now that he makes his living shilling for the man at the company store?

[GOBB]

I just watched Jalen Rose on first and 10. :oldlol: Agree or disagree he speaks his mind. I dont have any issue with his views because I felt the same way as did others. And still do today. Certain schools want players who fit a certain profile. So the kids that dont feel some type of way. Emphasis on kids. You come from a poor enviroment, drugs, poverty and wonder what makes someone who lives in the burbs, attends private school and has 2 successful parents. How are they better than me? Why cant I go to Duke?

The Uncle Tom term I dont agree with but the meaning to Jalen may differ than other people. Its not a bad thing to grow up with both parents, middle class, private school and your lunch packed before you hit the door. Some kids envy and wish that was the life they had instead of the one they were in.

[STATUTORY]

U had to grow up da way me and jalen did to understand the comment. he was speaking out of the bitterness that characterizes the existence of many young black males in da hood.

[niko]

**** Duke. THey are letting that kid (Irving?) that got hurt and is a 1 and done workout to try to get back for the tourney. Let's **** up his future possibly to try to get Coach K another plaque on the wall. When i read that i lost a lot of respect for them.

[JMT]

U had to grow up da way me and jalen did to understand the comment. he was speaking out of the bitterness that characterizes the existence of many young black males in da hood.

If u grow up dat way but can still spell "characterize" and speak intelligently on the topic, ghetto speech and spelling are as much a phony affectation as being an Uncle Tom.

[JMT]

**** Duke. THey are letting that kid (Irving?) that got hurt and is a 1 and done workout to try to get back for the tourney. Let's **** up his future possibly to try to get Coach K another plaque on the wall. When i read that i lost a lot of respect for them.

http://www.sportsoverdose.com/ncaa-basketball-players/kyrie-irving

Irving is the only one that has said anything about playing. K and other Duke coaches have been pretty emphatic that they don't expect him to play, just as they have been for over a month.

[STATUTORY]

If u grow up dat way but can still spell "characterize" and speak intelligently on the topic, ghetto speech and spelling are as much a phony affectation as being an Uncle Tom.

:facepalm so cuz I black I can't say characterize?

[oh the horror]

I dont feel anything about Rose's comments there.


I feel like he was an 18 year old kid, growing up in the inner city at the time, and that is how he felt toward the Duke organization.



He didnt exactly say it was right or anything, but hey....thats how he felt/feels.

[niko]

http://www.sportsoverdose.com/ncaa-basketball-players/kyrie-irving

Irving is the only one that has said anything about playing. K and other Duke coaches have been pretty emphatic that they don't expect him to play, just as they have been for over a month.
Coach K said the other day he doesn't expect him to play. He is allowing him to work out to try to come back. How hard is it to say "he will not play" Coach K is the boss, right?

There is 100% no reason to allow the kid to try to come back. That's not about the kid at all.

[GOBB]

The real problem is that a kid, given every opportunity in the world in 1990 simply because he could play basketball, would berate those that got opportunities because they could play ball AND worked hard in the classroom.

So what does Rose consider himself now that he makes his living shilling for the man at the company store?

I think Rose point was he could play ball and worked hard in the classroom (honor roll student). Yet that wasnt good enough in comparison to Grant Hill who could play ball and worked hard in the classroom. So Rose question is what makes Grant Hill better? What makes you recruit him and not me (Rose)? Rose mom couldnt afford to send him to private school. Rose couldnt get his dad to be around/apart of his life. Rose couldnt relocate to a better neighborhood. So he feels why are these reasons not to recruit me? Duke has standards and Rose felt they were unfair to certain athletes who didnt fit the profile Duke seeked.

Juwon Howard was a top player in the country. Honor roll student. Why didnt Duke recruit him? Thats Rose's complaint.

[LJJ]

"Uncle Tom" is not a very smart term to use, but I don't see anything wrong with what he said.

Don't forget he's talking about his feelings, and he's just being honest. Honest about himself.

[JMT]

:facepalm so cuz I black I can't say characterize?

Sure you can. But speaking half in understandable English, and half in ghetto-ese, is putting on a front. Just like being a Tom.

[JMT]

I think Rose point was he could play ball and worked hard in the classroom (honor roll student). Yet that wasnt good enough in comparison to Grant Hill who could play ball and worked hard in the classroom. So Rose question is what makes Grant Hill better? What makes you recruit him and not me (Rose)? Rose mom couldnt afford to send him to private school. Rose couldnt get his dad to be around/apart of his life. Rose couldnt relocate to a better neighborhood. So he feels why are these reasons not to recruit me? Duke has standards and Rose felt they were unfair to certain athletes who didnt fit the profile Duke seeked.

Juwon Howard was a top player in the country. Honor roll student. Why didnt Duke recruit him? Thats Rose's complaint.

So why not cast arrows at Duke, not the players that went there? They were at the mercy of the system as well. You can only go where they'll take you.

[ALBballer]

I don't agree with the "Uncle tom" comment, and if Duke wants to limit their choices its on them. Duke hypothetically is limiting their talent pool with their standards, and they hypothetically are not maximizing their talent. Their success shows otherwise. Standards and traditions over talent.

But lettuce be cereal, Rose sounds bitter. Hell a lot of the players on that Michigan team sound like arrogant pricks. They just mad. I don't think a lot of them are "Coach K" type of players anyways.

[GOBB]

So why not cast arrows at Duke, not the players that went there? They were at the mercy of the system as well. You can only go where they'll take you.

I dont think he has issues with the players. He said he has no problem with Grant Hill. Just hated that Grant Hill grew up with all the things he didnt have. As a teen he was hurt that people knew his dad was a pro baller and he didnt. Yet Grant Hill dad was by his side. Kids from the inner city kinda envy those fortunate to grow up in a better situation than them. And Rose heard the you wont amount to nothing, you arent better than them stuff as a kid. So you see a Duke recruit Grant Hill and not you? You ask yourself what the hell does Grant Hill have, do I dont? What makes him better than me? So it leaves a bitter taste in your mouth. Like saying you kids just arent good enough, sorry. Duke didnt reject them directly but they felt it was indirectly and it stung. So they hate how Duke profiles, not the actual players per say atleast when they explained it (Jimmy King, Jalen Rose).

It may have came off as an attack to Grant Hill but Jalen explained it further in the documentary and even today that wasnt the case nor his intentions. Just how he felt about Duke as an inner city kid struggling in poverty making the best out of his situation. They said Chris Webber fit Duke profile as well which is why he was recruited but somehow Juwon Howard didnt. They couldnt understand it. Felt it was unfair they didnt grow up fortunate like your Grant Hills. He said (today on espn) now that he is older and more mature he understands things better. Duke is a private institution and has every right to recruit who they feel will represent their school as they see fit. Still doesnt agree with it but atleast now he understands. Whereas when he was 17yrs old? Young and immature just speaking how he truly felt at that time.



“I was jealous of Grant Hill,” Rose said. “He came from a great black family. Congratulations, your mom went to college and was roommates with Hillary Clinton. And your dad played in the NFL — a very well-spoken and successful man. I was upset and bitter my mom had to bust her hump for 20-plus years. I was bitter that I had a professional athlete that was my father that I didn’t know. I resented that more than I resented him. I looked at it as they are who the world accepts and we are who the world hates.”

On the show (first and 10 today) they said former Duke players responded to Jalen Rose comments but they never said what was said. I'm gonna go search. Kinda interested in what they said and who said what honestly.

[ihatetimthomas]

I think he made the comment bc he was very bitter at the time (and I still think he is bitter) that he was not recruited along with his teammates to play in Duke. They were among the top players int he recruiting class and got no love from Duke. He was pissed at the situation he was in. Broken home, no money, not easy life growing up, and he just wanted someone to take out his anger on. That happened to be the players who played for the school he felt disrespected by. He was a young kid, at that age you are looking to blame anyone you can for problems you cant control.

Duke has a certain level of class they expect from their students, and quite frankly I think they were not sure what they were going to get from these guys. They were wild cards. We all saw they had talent, but we also saw how outspoken they were and how badly they rubbed people the wrong way. They have a lot of people pouring money into the school, and they gotta keep them happy too. I dont agree with it, but it is what it is.

I just got the vibe that the fab 5 were just angry and felt self entitled. They were looking to blame anyone for their own personal demons and they also said they were pissed that Michigan was making coin off of them. It's college thats how it is. But these kids were young and outspoken, I think we all said things we regret when we were younger

[JtotheIzzo]

anyone have a DL or a stream link where I can watch that UNLV video.

here is a Fab Five one:

http://cosbysweaters.com/2011/03/14/30-for-30-the-fab-five-full-video/

thx!


any links?:confusedshrug:

[rufuspaul]

I'm just posting again to remind people that Dook Sucks.

[StateProperty]

Jalen Rose defending his comments on 1st and 10 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDlfp4ADJRE)

[knickballer]

Duke is one of the hardest schools to get into so they only go after smarter players.. Hence why Reddick, Nolan Smith, Battier, etc.. They don't go after the Brandon Jennings..


It's extremely hard to get into Duke and I doubt Jalen Rose had the grades/scores to get in. He's just a arrogant prick.

[JtotheIzzo]

Duke is one of the hardest schools to get into so they only go after smarter players.. Hence why Reddick, Nolan Smith, Battier, etc.. They don't go after the Brandon Jennings..


It's extremely hard to get into Duke and I doubt Jalen Rose had the grades/scores to get in. He's just a arrogant prick.


Quite the contrary actually, it takes a lot of humility for a grown man with a job in the media to be so forthcoming about his misguided views when he was an 18 year old.

[GOBB]

Duke is one of the hardest schools to get into so they only go after smarter players.. Hence why Reddick, Nolan Smith, Battier, etc.. They don't go after the Brandon Jennings..

It's extremely hard to get into Duke and I doubt Jalen Rose had the grades/scores to get in. He's just a arrogant prick.

Its not easy to get into the Univ of Michigan either.

[DeuceWallaces]

I loved it. Duke is filled with a bunch of ****. And UM is one of the top schools in the country.

[rufuspaul]

Duke is one of the hardest schools to get into so they only go after smarter players.. Hence why Reddick, Nolan Smith, Battier, etc.. They don't go after the Brandon Jennings..


If you are an elite prep bball player and Coach Poslki wants you he'll get you in. As far as overall academics Duke has an excellent reputation but as far as admissions, anyone with enough money can usually get in. Rich kids from New Jersey who couldn't get into Princeton or Columbia are in abundant supply.

[ALBballer]

I loved it. Duke is filled with a bunch of ****. And UM is one of the top schools in the country.

Lettuce be reality, you think Duke=pvssy because they're white.

Lettuce be cereal now, John Calipari is a slimy dirtbag and represents everything wrong in college basketball.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Is this why they tried to recruit Lebron James?

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/player-LeBron-James-4019

Those guys are just Duke haters

[JtotheIzzo]

Lettuce be reality, you think Duke=pvssy because they're white.


I think they are ***** because of all the high yellow piss colored brothers they recruit.

Trajan
Booze
Grant
Shane
etc...

seriously though, Coach K recruits 'good kids' from 'good families' it is part of his strategy, and hate it or love it, it works.

[StateProperty]

Is this why they tried to recruit Lebron James?

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/player-LeBron-James-4019

Those guys are just Duke haters
Like Jalen and Jimmy said...you could name a couple guys. I'll throw John Wall out there (even though their recruitment of him was weak). Coach K's been at Duke for 31 years so 5 guys on a list is nothing.

Plus...he was LeBron f'n James.

[kentatm]

I don't see whats wrong with him saying how he felt as a 17 year old kid.

However, as a white person looking in from the outside, I don't get why Uncle Tom seems to have somehow turned into a catch all insult for black people who don't get into trouble, come from better backgrounds or generally behave the way one would expect a decent person to act. One of my friends once got called an UT at bar by a group of dudes for simply holding the door open for us. I mean, damn, he was just being nice. Its not like he was being some not some buttlick kowtowing to us.

Never mind that Tom in the book is actually killed because he refused to give up the whereabouts of some slaves that escape, refused to beat other slaves when ordered, was a big strong ox of a man and was a sympathetic hero. It seems like just going off the book that the term actually does not make much sense.

I would think that any educated black man would reject the use of that term since the negative portrayal of Tom only came later from bastardized pro slavery stage versions. Why not say F the bullshit version of Tom and take it back as the positive figure he was intended to be? :confusedshrug:


As for the players Duke recruits, they seem to have the exact same standards for their white players so I think its pretty unfair to rip them for having those standards for their black players. I don't pay that much attention to their team so perhaps I am simply ignorant of how things work there but I just don't see them getting ANY players that would be perceived to be risky in and out of the classroom.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

Wow. :violin:

Duke is racist.

[Go Getter]

I think they are ***** because of all the high yellow piss colored brothers they recruit.

Trajan
Booze
Grant
Shane
etc...

seriously though, Coach K recruits 'good kids' from 'good families' it is part of his strategy, and hate it or love it, it works.
Elton Brand, Luol Deng, Avery, etc...

[pete's montreux]

I don't have an opinion on the thread at hand however I would like to comment on Jalen Rose not backing down from his comments. How refreshing in this day and age of apologists. Hard not to like this guy after spilling his guts, staying true to himself and having a backbone.

[PowerGlove]

The Uncle Tom term I dont agree with but the meaning to Jalen may differ than other people. Its not a bad thing to grow up with both parents, middle class, private school and your lunch packed before you hit the door. Some kids envy and wish that was the life they had instead of the one they were in.

Pretty sure you called me a UT before.:oldlol:

[SEEBASS1234]

Didn't he say "I used to think that Duke was about the Uncle Tom's"
Keyword: used to

[L.Kizzle]

Why is there a thread on this? How many times does dude have to explain himself?

[L.Kizzle]

I doubt he's going to come on ISH and defend himself... Therefore this will not make him explain himself further. It's asking how OTHER people feel.
He has an ISH account.

[ThaSwagg3r]

The only thing I would like to know is if Rose's academics were good enough to get him into Duke. He said he was an honor roll, but that isn't a big deal in my opinion. A lot of students make the honor roll and Duke can't accept everyone that makes it.

Rose just sounds bitter about his situation. He isn't reacting any differently than most of us would, if a university had denied us. I'm not a liar, and I'll tell you guys that I reacted very similarly when I got rejected from one of my colleges.

I am sure Rose is telling some truth about Duke, but I am sure he is also fabricating some of it.

If you ask me, I don't think his academics were good enough.

[L.Kizzle]

The only thing I would like to know is if Rose's academics were good enough to get him into Duke. He said he was an honor roll, but that isn't a big deal in my opinion. A lot of students make the honor roll and Duke can't accept everyone that makes it.

Rose just sounds bitter about his situation. He isn't reacting any differently than most of us would, if a university had denied us. I'm not a liar, and I'll tell you guys that I reacted very similarly when I got rejected from one of my colleges.

I am sure Rose is telling some truth about Duke, but I am sure he is also fabricating some of it.

If you ask me, I don't think his academics were good enough.
Why not? How do we know his grades aren't any different than Grant Hills?

[STATUTORY]

The only thing I would like to know is if Rose's academics were good enough to get him into Duke. He said he was an honor roll, but that isn't a big deal in my opinion. A lot of students make the honor roll and Duke can't accept everyone that makes it.

Rose just sounds bitter about his situation. He isn't reacting any differently than most of us would, if a university had denied us. I'm not a liar, and I'll tell you guys that I reacted very similarly when I got rejected from one of my colleges.

I am sure Rose is telling some truth about Duke, but I am sure he is also fabricating some of it.

If you ask me, I don't think his academics were good enough.
:facepalm

the only test that jalen rose didn't pass is the brown paper bag test. u best be real bout dat.

[niko]

http://www.sportsoverdose.com/ncaa-basketball-players/kyrie-irving

Irving is the only one that has said anything about playing. K and other Duke coaches have been pretty emphatic that they don't expect him to play, just as they have been for over a month.
Coach K today (not a spokesperson, HIM) said Irving might play and he's practicing.

Apology accepted.

[ThaSwagg3r]

Why not? How do we know his grades aren't any different than Grant Hills?
I don't know, but that is my educated guess on the situation. I have read biographies on Grant Hill and I know a lot about Grant Hill. I know he is a really bright guy. I don't know about anything about Jalen Rose. I just really doubt that he is smarter than either Grant Hill or Shane Battier.

[kentatm]

:facepalm

the only test that jalen rose didn't pass is the brown paper bag test. u best be real bout dat.


:facepalm


that "test" is black on black discrimination from frats in the early 1900s.

so no.

[Loneshot]

Coach K today (not a spokesperson, HIM) said Irving might play and he's practicing.

Apology accepted.

Thats good IF he can. I was disappointed when i read he would miss the whole season.

[Jailblazers7]

I don't know, but that is my educated guess on the situation. I have read biographies on Grant Hill and I know a lot about Grant Hill. I know he is a really bright guy. I don't know about anything about Jalen Rose. I just really doubt that he is smarter than either Grant Hill or Shane Battier.

Do you think Corey Maggette is smarter? Sheldon Williams? Gerald Henderson?

[L.Kizzle]

I don't know, but that is my educated guess on the situation. I have read biographies on Grant Hill and I know a lot about Grant Hill. I know he is a really bright guy. I don't know about anything about Jalen Rose. I just really doubt that he is smarter than either Grant Hill or Shane Battier.
You sound just like the Duke people Rose is talking. You're assuming something before you even know what's goin on.

[STATUTORY]

:facepalm


that "test" is black on black discrimination from frats in the early 1900s.

so no.
:facepalm what fraternities were black folks in in the early 1900s pray tell?

any brothas kno when and where they been subjected to the brown paper bag test. whether it's at rite aids or in a judges office. don't play dumb. shit is very real

[the_wise_one]

Racist. He should be jailed.

[ThaSwagg3r]

Do you think Corey Maggette is smarter? Sheldon Williams? Gerald Henderson?
In High school? They may have performed better academically. I know Shelden Williams was an NHS member. You have to be one of the smartest people in your school or graduating class in order to be a member. I think it may have just been bad timing for Jalen. Maybe their regulations changed from the early 90s to the early 2000s.

I don't think academics is the only role in getting accepted into Duke. Money is probably a huge factor as well. All those players you listed, including Chris Webber, Shane Battier, and Grant Hill lived in families that were doing great financially.

I feel like Rose is underestimating his grades and overestimating the ability to be wealthy though. i.e. I don't think he realizes his grades probably weren't Duke material and he blames it on his family's financial situation instead.

[Jailblazers7]

In High school? They may have performed better academically. I know Shelden Williams was an NHS member. You have to be one of the smartest people in your school or graduating class in order to be a member. I think it may have just been bad timing for Jalen. Maybe their regulations changed from the early 90s to the early 2000s.

I don't think academics is the only role in getting accepted into Duke. Money is probably a huge factor as well. All those players you listed, including Chris Webber, Shane Battier, and Grant Hill lived in families that were doing great financially.

I feel like Rose is underestimating his grades and overestimating the ability to be wealthy though. i.e. I don't think he realizes his grades probably weren't Duke material and he blames it on his family's financial situation instead.

Wasn't the fact that they only recruit kids from wealthy backgrounds a large part of his criticism? lol

[ThaSwagg3r]

Wasn't the fact that they only recruit kids from wealthy backgrounds a large part of his criticism? lol
Yea it was, and I agree with Rose to some extent. I don't think being wealthy completely dictates whether or not you get accepted to Duke or not though. That is just my opinion on this. Even if Duke does that, many other schools do the complete opposite.

For example, lets say a kid is from a poor background, the kid has a 3.9 gpa and attends a public school. The other kid is from a rich background and attends a private school also had a 3.9 gpa. Schools would usually favor the poor kid that attends a public school. i.e. being rich isn't always a benefit and Rose may have had more options than those other ballers.

[knickballer]

Bottom line is Rose is acting like a selfish sore loser.. If Duke doesn't want to recruit him, Duke doesn't want to recruit him. Bottom line is he got into Michigan and was part of a very famous college bball team. Him talking trash about Duke sorta disrespects Michigan. And what's that garbage about him calling Duke players uncle tom's? Just because they are educated and wealthy they are "uncle toms"?

Rose is completely wrong and he just singled out an entire race of people.

[PowerGlove]

Bottom line is Rose is acting like a selfish sore loser.. If Duke doesn't want to recruit him, Duke doesn't want to recruit him. Bottom line is he got into Michigan and was part of a very famous college bball team. Him talking trash about Duke sorta disrespects Michigan. And what's that garbage about him calling Duke players uncle tom's? Just because they are educated and wealthy they are "uncle toms"?

Rose is completely wrong and he just singled out an entire race of people.
What?

[IcanzIIravor]

Bottom line is Rose is acting like a selfish sore loser.. If Duke doesn't want to recruit him, Duke doesn't want to recruit him. Bottom line is he got into Michigan and was part of a very famous college bball team. Him talking trash about Duke sorta disrespects Michigan. And what's that garbage about him calling Duke players uncle tom's? Just because they are educated and wealthy they are "uncle toms"?

Rose is completely wrong and he just singled out an entire race of people.

I think you have to understand the mentality of a 17 year old kid with his background at that time. Considering it all I can understand the anger, envy and bitterness of it. A lot of people felt like that when looking at Duke during that time period. Hell even today though I think the perception has changed to a degree.

[Reverend Hoops]

Jalen was wrong simple as that. Blacks going to college and being positive being called "Uncle Toms" is what is wrong with the "hood mentality" a lot of African-Americans have.

[kentatm]

:facepalm what fraternities were black folks in in the early 1900s pray tell?

any brothas kno when and where they been subjected to the brown paper bag test. whether it's at rite aids or in a judges office. don't play dumb. shit is very real

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

wow. just wow.

learn your history dude.

there were several black colleges by then and many Northern colleges had already begun to accept black students such as Cornell and Harvard.

as for black frats and sororities a few examples include, Alpha Phi Alpha started in 1907, Kappa Alpha Psi in 1911 Omega Psi Phi in 1911, and Delta Sigma Theta in 1913

[Patrick Chewing]

LOL at this Duke hatred.

But I bet you all love Coach K though and what he's been able to do with the USA basketball team. The fact that Duke can win with more scholarly players and not the best athletes in the country speaks volumes on how well that school is coached and managed. To me, the "Uncle Tom" comment is simply one of resentment and not anything to be taken serious by outside observers.

[Heilige]

Jalen was wrong simple as that. Blacks going to college and being positive being called "Uncle Toms" is what is wrong with the "hood mentality" a lot of African-Americans have.


I have heard blacks that are Republican or conservative be referred to as Uncle Toms.

[IcanzIIravor]

LOL at this Duke hatred.

But I bet you all love Coach K though and what he's been able to do with the USA basketball team. The fact that Duke can win with more scholarly players and not the best athletes in the country speaks volumes on how well that school is coached and managed. To me, the "Uncle Tom" comment is simply one of resentment and not anything to be taken serious by outside observers.

I think he owned up to it being some bitterness and resentment on his part about knowing due to the type of players Duke recruited and the backgrounds that they would not even look his way.

[airtommy]

This story reminded me of when Jalen said "I pity Duke" and then Duke's worst player Thomas Hill worked Jalen over like he was a walk-on. :roll:

Once a clown, always a clown.

[Da KO King]

Didn't have a problem with it because I understood what he was trying to get across.

[JMT]

Coach K today (not a spokesperson, HIM) said Irving might play and he's practicing.

Apology accepted.

Injuries heal and players status change on a daily basis.

I'm still trying to figure out why you've got a problem with a kid who was injured, rehabbing and playing in what might be his final college games?

Would it be more responsible of the coaching staff to not play a player that was healthy enough to go, hurting the player and the rest of the team? Did you curse the Purdue staff because Hummell tried to come back, apparently earlier than he should, so he could finish his college career?

[Go Getter]

I'm trying to figure out how people that didn't grow up like Jalen can pretend to understand where he was coming from when explaining his teenage mindset.

[niko]

Injuries heal and players status change on a daily basis.

I'm still trying to figure out why you've got a problem with a kid who was injured, rehabbing and playing in what might be his final college games?

Would it be more responsible of the coaching staff to not play a player that was healthy enough to go, hurting the player and the rest of the team? Did you curse the Purdue staff because Hummell tried to come back, apparently earlier than he should, so he could finish his college career?
Coach K talks all the time about how college should not be about basketball. It should be about preparing you for your future. That kid's future is in the draft later in June. If he just healed, he shouldn't be out there where one tweak of a just healed leg could kill that.

If this kid was in his 2nd year, going to stay, i get pretending like he's part of Duke. But he's not. He's a 1 and done, the same kind of player that Coach K killed everyone for signing. And he's going to risk his future to help Duke win a title.

If the kid came back weeks ago i'd say nothing, but you can't tell me he practiced a little (they said he didn't practice much) and is going to be thrown out in a game as a game time decision and that's good for the kid. It's good for Duke, great for the fans, sucks for the kid.

[GOBB]

Yea it was, and I agree with Rose to some extent..

How can you agree with Rose but say Battier/Grant Hill are brighter than Rose. Even AFTER you admit you know jack sh1t about Rose? You basically proved Rose point with your replies but end it with "I agree with Rose". :oldlol:

You dont have a clue what you want to say honestly.

[Thorpesaurous]

Coach K talks all the time about how college should not be about basketball. It should be about preparing you for your future. That kid's future is in the draft later in June. If he just healed, he shouldn't be out there where one tweak of a just healed leg could kill that.

If this kid was in his 2nd year, going to stay, i get pretending like he's part of Duke. But he's not. He's a 1 and done, the same kind of player that Coach K killed everyone for signing. And he's going to risk his future to help Duke win a title.

If the kid came back weeks ago i'd say nothing, but you can't tell me he practiced a little (they said he didn't practice much) and is going to be thrown out in a game as a game time decision and that's good for the kid. It's good for Duke, great for the fans, sucks for the kid.


I find it incredibly hard to believe that that coaching staff is pushing the kid to return. As was said above, the kid probably wants in more than anything else to experience the tourney since it seems like he's planning on leaving. I don't see that coaching staff thinking it's a great idea to try to shoe horn a guy into it's rotation on a team that's been good enough all season to get a top seed, and who's got a national POY candidate who's gonna have to split the ball with the kid anyway.
A better case could be made if they were holding him out in hopes to wreck his draft stock in the hopes of convincing him to come back next year and recoup his rep, but frankly I wouldn't believe that either.

[niko]

I find it incredibly hard to believe that that coaching staff is pushing the kid to return. As was said above, the kid probably wants in more than anything else to experience the tourney since it seems like he's planning on leaving. I don't see that coaching staff thinking it's a great idea to try to shoe horn a guy into it's rotation on a team that's been good enough all season to get a top seed, and who's got a national POY candidate who's gonna have to split the ball with the kid anyway.
A better case could be made if they were holding him out in hopes to wreck his draft stock in the hopes of convincing him to come back next year and recoup his rep, but frankly I wouldn't believe that either.
if i'm the coach i tell him not to play. if he's leaving playing for 10 minutes a game is a stupid decision. part of being the coach is protecting the player, and coach k has given us the holier than thou speech, specificaly on one and dones. so he goes and signs a one and done, and is going to let him rush back and risk injury. i don't like it.

[Thorpesaurous]

if i'm the coach i tell him not to play. if he's leaving playing for 10 minutes a game is a stupid decision. part of being the coach is protecting the player, and coach k has given us the holier than thou speech, specificaly on one and dones. so he goes and signs a one and done, and is going to let him rush back and risk injury. i don't like it.


Alright, but then how is that Coach K pushing the kid back to help Duke win the title. If the kid only plays a few minutes to have that experience, I'm all for letting him go. And if he can play more than that, then he's probably healthy enough to play.

[Thorpesaurous]

Here's Grant Hill's response to this whole thing. It's long, but may we all be so articulate:

__________________________________________________ _______________
I am a fan, friend and longtime competitor of the Fab Five. I have competed against Jalen Rose and Chris Webber since the age of 13. At Michigan, the Fab Five represented a cultural phenomenon that impacted the country in a permanent and positive way. The very idea of the Fab Five elicited pride and promise in much the same way the Georgetown teams did in the mid-1980s when I was in high school and idolized them. Their journey from youthful icons to successful men today is a road map for so many young, black men (and women) who saw their journey through the powerful documentary,

[niko]

Alright, but then how is that Coach K pushing the kid back to help Duke win the title. If the kid only plays a few minutes to have that experience, I'm all for letting him go. And if he can play more than that, then he's probably healthy enough to play.
Coach K is in charge. He should not let the kid play for the kid's own protection. That decision helps the kid the most if the kid is leaving school. If you just come back from an injury into uber competitive games, there is a bigger risk of injury than if you just brought him in a few weeks ago. He is being brought back to help Duke try to win a title. It has nothing to do with fulfilling the kid's dream. He's a one and done - when do those guys get treated like college is their sacred dream?

[catch24]

[QUOTE=Thorpesaurous]Here's Grant Hill's response to this whole thing. It's long, but may we all be so articulate:

__________________________________________________ _______________
I am a fan, friend and longtime competitor of the Fab Five. I have competed against Jalen Rose and Chris Webber since the age of 13. At Michigan, the Fab Five represented a cultural phenomenon that impacted the country in a permanent and positive way. The very idea of the Fab Five elicited pride and promise in much the same way the Georgetown teams did in the mid-1980s when I was in high school and idolized them. Their journey from youthful icons to successful men today is a road map for so many young, black men (and women) who saw their journey through the powerful documentary,

[Jailblazers7]

And, I am proud I never lost a game against the Fab Five.

He just had to throw that in at the end. :oldlol:

But that was a well-written statement on the whole situation and I expected nothing less from him.

[GOBB]

Well written, classy. You name it. I like Grant Hill. Really not much outside of attending Duke you can say bad about him. Some who hate Duke will say "I can name only one player I give a pass and thats Grant Hill".

Having said all of that? That letter didnt speak to Jalen Rose the man we see today. It spoke to the a teenager Rose once was. I think people will overlook that. He grew up and is more mature now. He understands this better today than he did in the past. So the letter was kinda :confusedshrug:

Maybe Grant can write a letter to Jalen Rose the man now and not the teen.

[Jailblazers7]

The only thing I would like to know is if Rose's academics were good enough to get him into Duke. He said he was an honor roll, but that isn't a big deal in my opinion. A lot of students make the honor roll and Duke can't accept everyone that makes it.

Rose just sounds bitter about his situation. He isn't reacting any differently than most of us would, if a university had denied us. I'm not a liar, and I'll tell you guys that I reacted very similarly when I got rejected from one of my colleges.

I am sure Rose is telling some truth about Duke, but I am sure he is also fabricating some of it.

If you ask me, I don't think his academics were good enough.

I just got done watching the First and Ten with Jalen and Jimmy King and Jalen said he was a Dean's list student at Michigan. Just food for thought.

[GOBB]

I just got done watching the First and Ten with Jalen and Jimmy King and Jalen said he was a Dean's list student at Michigan. Just food for thought.

Honor roll in high school as well.

[Jailblazers7]

Honor roll in high school as well.

Yeah, but the dude I quote was talking earlier how honor roll isn't that special in HS and blah blah blah. You can't say shit about Dean's list at Michigan tho lol.

[JMT]

Coach K talks all the time about how college should not be about basketball. It should be about preparing you for your future. That kid's future is in the draft later in June. If he just healed, he shouldn't be out there where one tweak of a just healed leg could kill that.

If this kid was in his 2nd year, going to stay, i get pretending like he's part of Duke. But he's not. He's a 1 and done, the same kind of player that Coach K killed everyone for signing. And he's going to risk his future to help Duke win a title.

If the kid came back weeks ago i'd say nothing, but you can't tell me he practiced a little (they said he didn't practice much) and is going to be thrown out in a game as a game time decision and that's good for the kid. It's good for Duke, great for the fans, sucks for the kid.

Duke's responsibility, along with the responsibility of any player that has accepted a scholarship from Duke, is to perform for Duke. Not to look into a crystal ball and determine what's going to happen in the future.

Do you honestly think they'd put a kid who wasn't physically ready onto the floor? If he's not ready to play and compete at a high level, they'll know before anyone else.

On the other hand, if he is ready to play, then what's the problem?

Why does it suck for the kid? Because he might get hurt?

He shouldn't play because he's potentially a one-and-done?

Hell, at this point it's pure speculation anyway. If he doesn't play will you come on the forum and laud Duke and K for protecting him? If he doesn' tplay and they lose, will you address how noble it was to play without a star player because of concerns about his future?

Your argument makes no sense.

[kentatm]

who did Duke sign that year over Jalen?

How many scholarships did they even have open?

Who did they already have at his position?


There are probably other factors besides where he came from

[Jailblazers7]

who did Duke sign that year over Jalen?

How many scholarships did they even have open?

Who did they already have at his position?


There are probably other factors besides where he came from

I think it was the fact that he wasn't even recruited. I could be wrong tho.

[rufuspaul]

Breaking News: Dook still sucks!

[Black Joker]

Breaking News: Dook still sucks!
still going to go farther than UNC

[iamgine]

Jalen kinda look like Denzel.

[GOBB]

I think it was the fact that he wasn't even recruited. I could be wrong tho.

You're right.

[GOBB]

who did Duke sign that year over Jalen?

How many scholarships did they even have open?

Who did they already have at his position?


There are probably other factors besides where he came from

They recruited Webber but not Juwon Howard.

[kentatm]

They recruited Webber but not Juwon Howard.

So CWebb was a potential Uncle to Jalen?

[GOBB]

So CWebb was a potential Uncle to Jalen?

He chose Michigan. Uncle Tom D'nied. :lol

[StateProperty]

Elton Brand's comments on Rose (http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/Jalen-Rose-Elton-Brand-and-the-Uncle-Tom-comment.html)



Elton on his reaction to Rose's comment: "You know, I just know that it sounded kind of ignorant, but at that time he's 17 years old, that's how a lot of young adults are. I know people from where I was from felt the same way, you know? But I knew it wasn't true and guys using those words are kind of harsh: sellout or Uncle Tom. Just because their parents stay together or worked hard? That doesn't make sense."

Elton on whether Rose has actually expressed this belief to his "FACE": "It was a difference in cultures. Duke was a prestigious school and Michigan, well it's pretty academically sound itself, so, you know what I mean? But I think that was just the rivalry, he might have said that on the court to those guys and he definitely felt that way and if that's his opinion, then that's how he felt."

Have you felt that has been a battle for you your whole career: having a "good rap" and how that might be viewed?

"I love it. I love it. I really wish I did grow up in an affluent background, I really wish I did. You know what I mean? It would have been easier on my mom, easier on my family. For any race or culture, that's nothing to look down upon."

Do you see how certain factors (following rules, being on time, etc.), if you twist it around, can be viewed as selling out?

"Right, being affluent, being on time, trying to get education. But it's nothing to be looked down upon. At all."

[Lebron23]

He is always been an idiot. One of the worst basketball analysts in the nba