kyrie irving is way too slow

[KG5MVP]

he's got good everything else, but he's too slow. it's like watching a 38 year old jason kidd running out there. sorry but he's not gonna be good in the nba

[Qwyjibo]

Coming off a toe injury doesn't help. He looked damn quick at the start of the year. He's the clear #1 pick to me. I just hope the Raptors can win the lottery to get him. Or at least get the #2 pick and have Washington get #1.

[ashbelly]

he's got good everything else, but he's too slow. it's like watching a 38 year old jason kidd running out there. sorry but he's not gonna be good in the nba


:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

I've seen Cavs fans praising him, talking about they would like to have him on their team :facepalm ..

[ThickassGlasses]

he's got good everything else, but he's too slow. it's like watching a 38 year old jason kidd running out there. sorry but he's not gonna be good in the nba

Yet even in his third game back he was breaking down defenses off the dribble
like nothing to start this game. :confusedshrug:

[AirJordan&Magic]

he's got good everything else, but he's too slow. it's like watching a 38 year old jason kidd running out there. sorry but he's not gonna be good in the nba

The guy has come off a toe injury and is still finding his way to the rim.

And :oldlol: at him being slow again. He is nowhere near slow.

[KG5MVP]

The guy has come off a toe injury and is still finding his way to the rim.

And :oldlol: at him being slow again. He is nowhere near slow.

slow as compared to nba PG speed

[Qwyjibo]

His intelligence, great shooting, athletic ability when fully healthy and the fact that he was a freshman PG who was starting for one of the best teams in the country is why he'll be the #1 pick (unless Washington win the lottery).

[HB40TheNextStar]

He's a lot slower than earlier in the season before the injury.


But it doesn't matter. If Derrick Williams doesn't go #1, the GM needs to be fired.

He's Blake Griffin with a jumpshot.

[RedBlackAttack]

Someone is basing their entire evaluation of a player based on one game... Not generally a good practice.

Irving is PLENTY quick enough off of the dribble when fully healthy and when he has his conditioning. Tonight was a case of injuries making him play more minutes than he was ready for and simply wearing down.

[scott0326]

His intelligence, great shooting, athletic ability when fully healthy and the fact that he was a freshman PG who was starting for one of the best teams in the country is why he'll be the #1 pick (unless Washington win the lottery).
I don't know, you could make a strong case for Derrick Williams going #1, he looks legit.

[PleezeBelieve]

The OP is correct to an extent and its fitting the excuse-makers flood this thread.

Irving does not have a great first step or athleticism.. lol. He's a polished scorer for his physical attributes, but please, the guy is so far from being as good as many of you (especially Cavs fans) hype him up to be.

[KB2clutch]

He's a lot slower than earlier in the season before the injury.


But it doesn't matter. If Derrick Williams doesn't go #1, the GM needs to be fired.

He's Blake Griffin with a jumpshot.
LOL notsureifsrs

[HB40TheNextStar]

LOL notsureifsrs

36 from 62 from 3 this year, 5-6 against dook tonight. Don't think that is included in the season total.

He shoots an absurd .60 from the field while getting double teamed on a consistent basis. Good passer out of the double team, and the athleticism is clearly there.

[KG5MVP]

36 from 62 from 3 this year, 5-6 against dook tonight. Don't think that is included in the season total.

He shoots an absurd .60 from the field while getting double teamed on a consistent basis. Good passer out of the double team, and the athleticism is clearly there.

no, he has average athleticism, the best he can be is a post injury chris paul

[PleezeBelieve]

I don't know, you could make a strong case for Derrick Williams going #1, he looks legit.
Bro, understand -- Irving fans have been hyping him up for four months WHILE INJURED, so you know they can't jump off the bandwagon that fast. They will maintain this guy is the undisputed best prospect regardless of what anyone eles does. I'm not even a big Williams fan but I can see the talent.

Irving??? I see a scoring first point who I believe will have issues physically matching the level of talent in the NBA. He's a nice prospect but I like Brandon Knight as much, if not more.

[HB40TheNextStar]

no, he has average athleticism, the best he can be is a post injury chris paul

I'm talking about Derrick Williams.


Irving is a good athlete. Watched him at the pro-am this summer and he was snatching down some filthy oops. Some of that shit is on YouTube.

He's not Rose, Wall, or Westbrook. Good enough to drop his defender.

[Qwyjibo]

He's not Rose, Wall, or Westbrook. Good enough to drop his defender.
No kidding. Definitely above-average overall. Some people in here make it seem like he's Mateen Cleaves.

There is no runaway top prospect in this draft but to me, if you put a gun to my head and asked me who will have the most All-Star appearances out of the current class, I'd go with Irving. But because there is no clear top prospect, positional need will come into play. I don't see a team like Toronto drafting Williams and obviously Washington isn't taking Irving.

[KG5MVP]

No kidding. Definitely above-average overall. Some people in here make it seem like he's Mateen Cleaves.

There is no runaway top prospect in this draft but to me, if you put a gun to my head and asked me who will have the most All-Star appearances out of the current class, I'd go with Irving. But because there is no clear top prospect, positional need will come into play. I don't see a team like Toronto drafting Williams and obviously Washington isn't taking Irving.

irving will have tough time battling out ASG spots with rose, wade, rondo, kobe, wall, paul, williams

[Qwyjibo]

irving will have tough time battling out ASG spots with rose, wade, rondo, kobe, wall, paul, williams
That can be said for any player. Any forwards (Jones, Williams, Sullinger) battling with Lebron, Amare, Dirk, Griffin etc.

[HB40TheNextStar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoNhWVCYEbk

1:30 is what I was talking about. Has some hops and smart quickness. Creative dribbling with lots of changes of directions.

I think he's a bit overrated since most judged him solely on the MSU game, a team that was incredibly overrated, but he should be one of the 2-3 players in the conversation for #1 overall.

[Replay32]

All I have to say is GO WILDCATS!!!! Hell yeah!!! :cheers:

PS...F-Duke. :roll:

[Meticode]

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

I've seen Cavs fans praising him, talking about they would like to have him on their team :facepalm ..
I'm presonally not sure about Irving myself. I'm leaning more towards Derrick Williams. Iriving feels like he's at least 2-3 years off from doing anything.

[RedBlackAttack]

The OP is correct to an extent and its fitting the excuse-makers flood this thread.

Irving does not have a great first step or athleticism.. lol. He's a polished scorer for his physical attributes, but please, the guy is so far from being as good as many of you (especially Cavs fans) hype him up to be.
Why don't you just quote my posts and speak to me directly instead of tip-toeing around it? I never said that he was a Chris Paul style athlete or that his athleticism was the strongest part of his game.

A lot more goes into being a great PG on the next level than athleticism... And, he does have a nice first step, can get past defenders, and can break down defenses. Just because he isn't Chris Paul doesn't mean that he can't do the things that it takes to run an offense.

He is the most complete player in the draft... To me, easily the safest bet. There are guys with more upside or potential (Perry Jones, your boy), but also much greater risks.

Aren't you low on Derrick Willaims, too? He looks to have a pretty damn nice skillset to me.

[PleezeBelieve]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoNhWVCYEbk

1:30 is what I was talking about. Has some hops and smart quickness. Creative dribbling with lots of changes of directions.

I think he's a bit overrated since most judged him solely on the MSU game, a team that was incredibly overrated, but he should be one of the 2-3 players in the conversation for #1 overall.
He doesn't play with exceptional speed. He uses his dribble well, but I think at the NBA level that can be neutralized on a consistent basis due to his lack of hops and great first step.

Why isn't this obvious to see?

In addition, the dude is a score first point guard as well.

[PleezeBelieve]

Why don't you just quote my posts and speak to me directly instead of tip-toeing around it? I never said that he was a Chris Paul style athlete or that his athleticism was the strongest part of his game.

A lot more goes into being a great PG on the next level than athleticism... And, he does have a nice first step, can get past defenders, and can break down defenses. Just because he isn't Chris Paul doesn't mean that he can't do the things that it takes to run an offense.

He is the most complete player in the draft... To me, easily the safest bet. There are guys with more upside or potential (Perry Jones, your boy), but also much greater risks.

Aren't you low on Derrick Willaims, too? He looks to have a pretty damn nice skillset to me.
Irving's first step isn't anywhere close to be where it needs to be if you expect #1 pick production from a 6'1 point guard.

And for you to say he's the most complete player in the draft when he's a score-first guy, just shows you didn't do your research on him before he came back from injury. Almost his entire game is based on attacking the paint or setting up his jumpshot. Not saying he's an unwilling passer as much and his first instinct is to score.

I don't want that from a 6'1 point guard who lacks great physical qualities.

[RedBlackAttack]

Irving's first step isn't anywhere close to be where it needs to be if you expect #1 pick production from a 6'1 point guard.

And for you to say he's the most complete player in the draft when he's a score-first guy, just shows you didn't do your research on him before he came back from injury. Almost his entire game is based on attacking the paint or setting up his jumpshot. Not saying he's an unwilling passer as much and his first instinct is to score.

I don't want that from a 6'1 point guard who lacks great physical qualities.
Irving is not a shoot-first PG. He generally has pretty modest FGAs and he committed himself to the Duke template of having a playmaking PG, unlike his replacement for much of the season, Nolan Smith... Who really is a shoot-first PG... Or a Kemba Walker.

Even tonight... With Irving CLEARLY worn down and when they were just giving him the ball late in the game to shoot 3s in a desperate attempt to get back in it, Kyrie finishes 9-of-14 from the field... Very economical.

Our current PG (Sessions) is much more of a shoot-first PG than Irving.

[50inchvertical]

My dude played 11 games and people are still talking about automatic top 2 pick. I don't see it. He still looks VERY average to me. Give me Nolan Smith over him off his own team, not to mention Jimmer, Kemba, and Norris Cole. I think he is going to get a gm or coach fired.

[PleezeBelieve]

Irving is not a shoot-first PG. He generally has pretty modest FGAs and he committed himself to the Duke template of having a playmaking PG, unlike his replacement for much of the season, Nolan Smith... Who really is a shoot-first PG... Or a Kemba Walker.

Even tonight... With Irving CLEARLY worn down and when they were just giving him the ball late in the game to shoot 3s in a desperate attempt to get back in it, Kyrie finishes 9-of-14 from the field... Very economical.

Our current PG (Sessions) is much more of a shoot-first PG than Irving.
If Kemba is a shoot first guy, then what is Irving???

Kemba put up 24/4.5 on a team with not near as much talent as Irving had he only averages 5 apg himself.

What game are you watching? Irving is CLEARLY an attacking point guard, not a facilitating one. The true difference between him and Kemba is that Kemba possesses physical attributes that will translate at the next level, Irving not so much.

[IGOTGAME]

Irving's first step isn't anywhere close to be where it needs to be if you expect #1 pick production from a 6'1 point guard.

And for you to say he's the most complete player in the draft when he's a score-first guy, just shows you didn't do your research on him before he came back from injury. Almost his entire game is based on attacking the paint or setting up his jumpshot. Not saying he's an unwilling passer as much and his first instinct is to score.

I don't want that from a 6'1 point guard who lacks great physical qualities.

I actually agree with this...he does lack the quickness imo to qualify as a #1 pick as a pg. I also havent seen the passing ability to make it worth while.

[RedBlackAttack]

If Kemba is a shoot first guy, then what is Irving???

Kemba put up 24/4.5 on a team with not near as much talent as Irving had he only averages 5 apg himself.

What game are you watching? Irving is CLEARLY an attacking point guard, not a facilitating one. The true difference between him and Kemba is that Kemba possesses physical attributes that will translate at the next level, Irving not so much.
Why are you differentiating between attacking and facilitating? A good PG attacks to set-up his facilitating. I never said that he isn't an 'attacking' PG... I said that he isn't a shoot-first PG.

Irving shoots 50+% from the field... Walker is just a little over 40%. That is a true shoot-first PG. Irving plays within the Duke system and doesn't look to isolate... He takes what defenses give him, which is the trait of a natural PG.

Kemba is much more prone to forcing his own shot, which is why he is so inefficient.

And, Connecticut has a nice team. I don't know why you keep reiterating that Kemba's squad is much less talented.

[Kingwillball]

OK, I dont feel like Responding to every negative post on Irving in this thread so this is for everyone who doesn't think he is worthy of a Top 5 pick..

First Off as a couple have mentioned the dude missed MOST of the season..He was the Best player on Duke the first 8-10 games before he was Hurt and the best player Tonight for them. He is also not in Great game shape and Doesn't have his 100% quickness back yet. People saying he is Slow need to get a Grip..Is he the athlete of Rose or Westbrook or even Wall not quite but he is not that far behind.. Also at the same Age is a Much better shooter than any of those mentioned. I have watched Kyrie play since HS in NJ and what makes him special is that he knows how to change gears and Speeds to break down a Defender or Defense and Penetrate but also has an uncanny Knack for finishing some difficult shots at the rim as well..Is he a Score first PG sometimes but can also drive and dish with Ease as well as run an offense. In closing the Little gap athletically that some of the Young PG studs have on him he will make up with Skill and Craftiness..By his 2nd or 3rd yr in the League He can Easily be a 17+ ppg 8+assist type of player.

[PleezeBelieve]

Why are you differentiating between attacking and facilitating? A good PG attacks to set-up his facilitating. I never said that he isn't an 'attacking' PG... I said that he isn't a shoot-first PG.

Irving shoots 50+% from the field... Walker is just a little over 40%. That is a true shoot-first PG. Irving plays within the Duke system and doesn't look to isolate... He takes what defenses give him, which is the trait of a natural PG.

Kemba is much more prone to forcing his own shot, which is why he is so inefficient.

And, Connecticut has a nice team. I don't know why you keep reiterating that Kemba's squad is much less talented.
Duke went like 24-3 without Irving... you must be bugging tonight. lol

And as far as the facilitating vs attacking point, what I'm saying is Irving does not see the floor like a point guard of his size and skillset needs to play like in order to maximize their talents. In fact, he is a poor "on-court general" IMO. It's no coincidence Nolan Smith played at far less level when Irving was on the court compared to when he was injured.

Cmon bro, look at the big picture.

[midatlantic09]

But it doesn't matter. If Derrick Williams doesn't go #1, the GM needs to be fired.

He's Blake Griffin with a jumpshot.


You realize that Williams is like 6'6 1/2, right? He's not a true 6'8 and everyone will learn this once combine results come out.

[Kingwillball]

My dude played 11 games and people are still talking about automatic top 2 pick. I don't see it. He still looks VERY average to me. Give me Nolan Smith over him off his own team, not to mention Jimmer, Kemba, and Norris Cole. I think he is going to get a gm or coach fired.


Nolan..LOL..U saw Tonight and before He got Hurt he was the better player of the two. There is a reason Smith is NEVER mentioned as a top 5 pick as an older player and a True Frosh is Unanimous top 5 prospect.

[Kingwillball]

You realize that Williams is like 6'6 1/2, right? He's not a true 6'8 and everyone will learn this once combine results come out.


Williams is more like AI of the Sixers or a poor mans Lebron than Griffen..

[Kingwillball]

Why don't you just quote my posts and speak to me directly instead of tip-toeing around it? I never said that he was a Chris Paul style athlete or that his athleticism was the strongest part of his game.

A lot more goes into being a great PG on the next level than athleticism... And, he does have a nice first step, can get past defenders, and can break down defenses. Just because he isn't Chris Paul doesn't mean that he can't do the things that it takes to run an offense.

He is the most complete player in the draft... To me, easily the safest bet. There are guys with more upside or potential (Perry Jones, your boy), but also much greater risks.

Aren't you low on Derrick Willaims, too? He looks to have a pretty damn nice skillset to me.

If I were the Cavs I would take Derrick Williams #1 but maybe Trade Up the #8 pick and Next yrs #1 for the #3 or 4 pick to try and get Irving as well.. To me the are EASILY 2 of the top 5 players in the Draft(if they both come out)

[RedBlackAttack]

Duke went like 24-3 without Irving... you must be bugging tonight. lol

And as far as the facilitating vs attacking point, what I'm saying is Irving does have see the floor like a point guard of his size and skillset needs to play like. In fact, he is a poor "on-court general" IMO. It's no coincidence Nolan Smith played at far less level when Irving was on the court than when he was injured.

Cmon bro, look at the big picture.
Duke went 24-3 because they had a capable backup and they have a tremendous system in place that does not put a ton of emphasis on individual players. Using Duke's record without him as an indictment on Irving is ridiculous. It wasn't so much the 'talent' that led to their good regular season after Irving went down, it is the tremendous system that they have in place.

All you have to do is watch them to know that they aren't overwhelmingly talented. They have/had a nice team, but not individually on the level of... say, Ohio State this year.

And, Nolan Smith struggled because, like any PG, he needs the ball in his hands to have a really big impact. Since Irving limited his touches, he struggled. He was getting open looks, but it just wasn't in the way that he is most comfortable.

To me, Smith struggling so badly tonight says much more about him than it does about Irving. When you have two assists and six turnovers? Yeah, not exactly a good ratio for a supposed PG.

[RedBlackAttack]

You realize that Williams is like 6'6 1/2, right? He's not a true 6'8 and everyone will learn this once combine results come out.
I'm more interested in his wingspan than his height. That is the number that you are going to want to keep your eye on coming out of the combine.

[RedBlackAttack]

If I were the Cavs I would take Derrick Williams #1 but maybe Trade Up the #8 pick and Next yrs #1 for the #3 or 4 pick to try and get Irving as well.. To me the are EASILY 2 of the top 5 players in the Draft(if they both come out)
I don't know about trading next year's No. 1 pick. :oldlol:

I like Irving, but next year's draft, I believe, is projected to be pretty good. We aren't in much of a position to be trading away draft picks... Especially picks that could potentially be the top selection in the entire draft.

But, I would like to get both guys, obviously. Maybe things will work out and we'll get a really high spot with that Clips' pick?

[Kingwillball]

I don't know about trading next year's No. 1 pick. :oldlol:

I like Irving, but next year's draft, I believe, is projected to be pretty good. We aren't in much of a position to be trading away draft picks... Especially picks that could potentially be the top selection in the entire draft.

But, I would like to get both guys, obviously. Maybe things will work out and we'll get a really high spot with that Clips' pick?


Maybe, but Next Yr No Guarantee they will get a Lottery Pick and If U get two top 5 players to build your team around it is a tradeoff U have to consider..

[UwishUhadWall]

Lol, dude just started playing again last week. Stuff with the feet ****s with a persons speed. Especially if they missed time. We went through that here in DC with Wall at the beginning of the year. You could really tell.

P.S. **** Duke

[Miserio]

http://www.basket4us.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/01.g.jpg

[Kingwillball]

Damn, As U can See looking above I knew What I was talking about.. I know Talent when I see it..

[returnofthemack]

http://www.basket4us.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/01.g.jpg

thank god the cavs got this kid. the verdict is still out on williams but im glad the cavs didnt get a chance to take him at 4.

[I<3NBA]

he's got good everything else, but he's too slow. it's like watching a 38 year old jason kidd running out there. sorry but he's not gonna be good in the nba


He's a lot slower than earlier in the season before the injury.


But it doesn't matter. If Derrick Williams doesn't go #1, the GM needs to be fired.

He's Blake Griffin with a jumpshot.


The OP is correct to an extent and its fitting the excuse-makers flood this thread.

Irving does not have a great first step or athleticism.. lol. He's a polished scorer for his physical attributes, but please, the guy is so far from being as good as many of you (especially Cavs fans) hype him up to be.
:lol

[Clippersfan86]

http://www.basket4us.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/01.g.jpg

:applause: :roll:

[LBJMVP]

what a failure of a thread.

[chips93]

funny thing is its not that he overcame a lack of speed, hes actually very fast, and knows how to change speeds

when he pushes the ball up the court, its clear he has elite level speed

[Miserio]

funny thing is its not that he overcame a lack of speed, hes actually very fast, and knows how to change speeds

when he pushes the ball up the court, its clear he has elite level speed
He's the perfect PG, that's the funny thing. He's fast, controls the pace, is a good (gonna be great) playmaker, can shoot the ball wherever he wants, clutch. He's like a mini Isiah.

[chips93]

He's the perfect PG, that's the funny thing. He's fast, controls the pace, is a good (gonna be great) playmaker, can shoot the ball wherever he wants, clutch. He's like a mini Isiah.

and he seems like hes got his shit together, not preoccupied with anything off the court.

raised in a military family, and he and coach scott have a great relationship

things on the up in cleveland

:banana:

[RedBlackAttack]

This thread = womp womp

[Quickening]

and he seems like hes got his shit together, not preoccupied with anything off the court.

raised in a military family, and he and coach scott have a great relationship

things on the up in cleveland

:banana:

How long before he leaves?

[chips93]

How long before he leaves?


how long before lebrons next choke-job?

*checks watch*

mmmmmmm bout 3 hours, give or take 30 mins

[CavaliersFTW]

how long before lebrons next choke-job?

*checks watch*

mmmmmmm bout 3 hours, give or take 30 mins
:roll: heat fan mad as hell

[RaininTwos]

funny thing is its not that he overcame a lack of speed, hes actually very fast, and knows how to change speeds

when he pushes the ball up the court, its clear he has elite level speed
he's an athletic beast with an old mans game. dude will lull defenders to sleep, then explode to the rim or whatever spot he desires. he's a monster.

[RaininTwos]

how long before lebrons next choke-job?

*checks watch*

mmmmmmm bout 3 hours, give or take 30 mins
good comeback:eek: :oldlol:

[RedBlackAttack]

:roll: James fan mad as hell
FYP

Notice the join date listed as August of 2011.

Sad thing is, he/she/it was probably a Cavs fan until July of 2010. Amazing the influx of new "Heat fans" we've gotten over the last two years.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Hes a fine scorer, just aint a good passer for PG.

[Quickening]

how long before lebrons next choke-job?

*checks watch*

mmmmmmm bout 3 hours, give or take 30 mins

Cute answer, but corrct one would be as soon as his contract is up.

Cleveland.:lol

How they have turned on the best player in their history, just because he got tired of carrying their sorry franchise.:no:

[DukeDelonte13]

Cute answer, but corrct one would be as soon as his contract is up.

Cleveland.:lol

How they have turned on the best player in their history, just because he got tired of carrying their sorry franchise.:no:

I forgot has Miami won a chip yet or are they down 2-1 against the pacers?

Miami :oldlol: Fan Up brah.

[returnofthemack]

Cute answer, but corrct one would be as soon as his contract is up.

Cleveland.:lol

How they have turned on the best player in their history, just because he got tired of carrying their sorry franchise.:no:

yeah he carried the cavs to playoff loss after playoff loss.

i would take kyrie over lebron any day of the week. hes younger, had an amazing rookie seasn, has already showed hes not afraid of the big moment. maybe kyrie cant win a ring. who knows. everyone already knows that lebron cant do it:lol

with lebron everyone is figuring out that its all flash and when it comes down to it lebron is a loser. im glad i dont have to watch lebron choke it up with the cavs in the playoffs anymore.

the funny thing is this dude actually thinks lebron is going to stay loyal to the miami heat. that have already been whispers from lebron himself that he will think about leaving when his contract is up.

your right the miami franchise is so proud and great. fans dont show up till half time. you can always hear the other teams fans cheering. that have to do public service annoucments to tell people how fans are supposed to act. you wont see that shit in cleveland thats for sure

[It's A VC3!!!]

News flash dumbass: He's a rookie. Sorry but why are you nitpicking flaws on an 18 year old rookie. I haven't seen him play much, but this guy is a future all-star within 3 years. He is a complete player, and his confidence to take over games in the last minutes of the fourth quarter are a natural instinct only few players have. Maybe next year or the year after you can nitpick flaws, but it's way to early.:facepalm