Is Derrick Rose really the MVP of the NBA?

[DRoseOwnsACamry]

I would like him to take considerably less three point shots, long range 2's, and take more mid-range shots and drives to the basket. It's painful to watch him have such poor shooting nights and the haters get a field day.

[NBASTATMAN]

I would like him to take considerably less three point shots, long range 2's, and take more mid-range shots and drives to the basket. It's painful to watch him have such poor shooting nights and the haters get a field day.


He made the big plays down the stretch.. And I he has accounted for the biggest share of his teams offense this year.. To do that on a team that is in 1st place is great.. He deserves the MVP over everyone... But Wade is going to make a run for it... But right now Dhoward is behind him.. And he is playing off the charts as well

[FKAri]

His shot selection ain't too bad. He doesn't go into hero mode. Which is great to see from a young player with alot of hype.

[whoartthou]

His shot selection ain't too bad. He doesn't go into hero mode. Which is great to see from a young player with alot of hype.

basically, hes no kobe. Kobe takes ill-advised shots. Drose, not so much.

[Meticode]

Jalen Rose is retired...

[DeronMillsap]

He's not going to improve on his shooting range if he doesnt try.

[Rose]

I'd just rather him not take 3s unless he's wide open. OR is feeling it. Because before he was hitting like 2/5 or so. And now it's either 80%+ from 3 or 0%

[Mr. Jabbar]

MVP this year = :facepalm

[CHi1PriDe]

basically, hes no kobe. Kobe takes ill-advised shots. Drose, not so much.

wtf does this have to do with kobe:facepalm get your lame sht outta here :no:

[Meticode]

He's not going to improve on his shooting range if he doesnt try.
He already has improved it. His consistency of his mid-range game is what's suffered compared to last year. Last year 15-20 feet out he was shooting at 50%, this year he's below 40%, but obviously he's improved his three.

[asu77golf]

So I'm looking at his offensive stats.... and they're good, but MVP worthy? Not even CLOSE.

Now, I haven't watched him play much at all. Not a Bulls fan so I don't catch their games. For him to be in the MVP consideration, he must be a All-Defensive Team caliber defender. His offensive stats just don't cut it.

Why all the Rose for MVP talk?

[NBASTATMAN]

So I'm looking at his offensive stats.... and they're good, but MVP worthy? Not even CLOSE.

Now, I haven't watched him play much at all. Not a Bulls fan so I don't catch their games. For him to be in the MVP consideration, he must be a All-Defensive Team caliber defender. His offensive stats just don't cut it.

Why all the Rose for MVP talk?


stats don't matter.:D

[themurph]

So I'm looking at his offensive stats.... and they're good, but MVP worthy? Not even CLOSE.

Now, I haven't watched him play much at all. Not a Bulls fan so I don't catch their games. For him to be in the MVP consideration, he must be a All-Defensive Team caliber defender. His offensive stats just don't cut it.

Why all the Rose for MVP talk?


Can we cut it out guys...Too many posts by folks that don't watch the games....This has gotten weird...

[asu77golf]

Can we cut it out guys...Too many posts by folks that don't watch the games....This has gotten weird...

I'm honestly not trying to troll. Does he fart fairy dust? Why is he being considered for MVP when his offensive stats don't cut it?

[OriginalNameGuy]

There's no point in discussing it. The race is over, the trophy probably already has his name on it. Media votes on it and they made up their minds a long time ago

[Undisputed]

ISH has a new slogan, "Check My Stats". :oldlol:

[d.bball.guy]

There's no point in discussing it. The race is over, the trophy probably already has his name on it. Media votes on it and they made up their minds a long time ago
This. Their big wins against Miami ended the race.

[ballinhun8]

All of a sudden 25-4-8 are terrible numbers.


Really?? Just those stats, wow, this guy should be in the NBDL.

[Lebron23]

stats don't matter.:D

The Bulls are a better team this year because of their great defensive system, and with the addition of Carlos Boozer.

[Undisputed]

The Bulls are a better team this year because of their great defensive system, and with the addition of Carlos Boozer.
Yeah, Derrick Rose's improvement and ability to carry the offensive load without Boozer has nothing to do with it.

Don't be stupid. You can choose to be otherwise.

[asu77golf]

All of a sudden 25-4-8 are terrible numbers.


Really?? Just those stats, wow, this guy should be in the NBDL.

I never said they were terrible numbers, in fact I said they were good numbers. But MVP worthy all by themselves? No.

I'm honestly asking, what is the factor I'm not including? I haven't got an answer yet.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

ISH has a new slogan, "Check My Stats". :oldlol:
This

Lol:roll:

[NBASTATMAN]

All of a sudden 25-4-8 are terrible numbers.


Really?? Just those stats, wow, this guy should be in the NBDL.

25 and 8ass and a 2-1 tover ratio with 85 percent free throw shooting as well as being clutch as hell... Tonight he finishes big..

No other player means as much to his team.. Well maybe Dhoward..

[emsteez forreal]

because no one expected the bulls to be close to a 60 win season, and here we are.

[themurph]

I'm honestly not trying to troll. Does he fart fairy dust? Why is he being considered for MVP when his offensive stats don't cut it?


You said you don't watch the Bulls' games right? So how can you comment on Rose's numbers...I mean, if you didn't watch the kid tonight win the game for his team and make the big and 1 play, that's on u...You didn't see Rose drop 7 assists, drop 7 rebounds and nearly shoot 11-11 at the free throw line and still score 24 points when his shot wasn't dropping....

No one ever said you were trolling...That seems to be on your conscious...Rose is not above criticism...But when one criticizes something, one should at least know what they are talking about...

No diss...

[ballinhun8]

25 and 8ass and a 2-1 tover ratio with 85 percent free throw shooting as well as being clutch as hell... Tonight he finishes big..

No other player means as much to his team.. Well maybe Dhoward..




Seriously. Like damn, people need to nitpick every single thing to satisfy their sick happiness.

25-4-8??? Name another PG to do that. How are those not good stats? I mean he has played without two important players for a chunk of the year and helped carry his team afloat.

[asu77golf]

because no one expected the bulls to be close to a 60 win season, and here we are.

And Rose is the reason? What about Boozer?

Remember, I'm not trolling here. I don't care if he wins it or not.

[ballinhun8]

And Rose is the reason? What about Boozer?

Remember, I'm not trolling here. I don't care if he wins it or not.



Rose is half the reason. The other half is Thibs and what he brought to the team.


Boozer has missed a ton of time this season along with Joakim and just having the Bulls with the 1st seed with those two huge injuries just show how much of an impact Rose' improvement and Thibs Head Coaching has made a difference on this team.

[asu77golf]

Derrick Rose PG stat rankings according to ESPN:

Pts/game (1st)
FG% (17th)
3P% (26th)
Rebounds/game (3rd)
FT% (13th)
Assist/game (10th)
Steal/game (20th)
Block/game (1st) (0.64)
AST/TO (32nd)

[asu77golf]

Rose is half the reason. The other half is Thibs and what he brought to the team.


Boozer has missed a ton of time this season along with Joakim and just having the Bulls with the 1st seed with those two huge injuries just show how much of an impact Rose' improvement and Thibs Head Coaching has made a difference on this team.

Makes sense, and I guess I'll just have to make peace with him winning the MVP. Having not watched him play much I don't have an informed opinion, I just have the stats to look at.

[FKAri]

So I'm looking at his offensive stats.... and they're good, but MVP worthy? Not even CLOSE.

Now, I haven't watched him play much at all. Not a Bulls fan so I don't catch their games. For him to be in the MVP consideration, he must be a All-Defensive Team caliber defender. His offensive stats just don't cut it.

Why all the Rose for MVP talk?

http://i44.tinypic.com/4j6r5u.jpg


Tho I do think he's being given too much credit for Chicago's rise. Its a mix of his maturation and improvement, an improved bench but most importantly Thib's system and the players buying into that system.

[asu77golf]

http://i44.tinypic.com/4j6r5u.jpg
:oldlol:

[ballinhun8]

Derrick Rose PG stat rankings according to ESPN:

Pts/game (1st)
FG% (17th)
3P% (26th)
Rebounds/game (3rd)
FT% (13th)
Assist/game (10th)
Steal/game (20th)
Block/game (1st) (0.64)
AST/TO (32nd)



His turnovers are bad. They really are. There are some games you watch him and you think he's playing streetball. But hopefully he improves on that and his overall "Point Guard skills" during the off-season. If history shows us anything, it's that you know Rose will do and try anything to improve his game.

[Rose]

And Rose is the reason? What about Boozer?

Remember, I'm not trolling here. I don't care if he wins it or not.
Boozer's missed over 20 games. Noah's missed 30. yet still they're going to win at least 55.

[asu77golf]

His turnovers are bad. They really are. There are some games you watch him and you think he's playing streetball. But hopefully he improves on that and his overall "Point Guard skills" during the off-season. If history shows us anything, it's that you know Rose will do and try anything to improve his game.

I'm sure I'll get to see him play quite a bit in the playoffs. Thanks for answering my questions.

[ballinhun8]

OMG, it feels weird when a thread is actually a legit conversation made between adults......


:wtf:

[asu77golf]

OMG, it feels weird when a thread is actually a legit conversation made between adults......


:wtf:

YOU SUCK!!!

Is that better? :lol

[Rose]

OMG, it feels weird when a thread is actually a legit conversation made between adults......


:wtf:
:lol

[FathosRgoodatBJ]

So I'm looking at his offensive stats.... and they're good, but MVP worthy? Not even CLOSE.

Now, I haven't watched him play much at all. Not a Bulls fan so I don't catch their games. For him to be in the MVP consideration, he must be a All-Defensive Team caliber defender. His offensive stats just don't cut it.

Why all the Rose for MVP talk?

If Lebron where able to make his clutch shots at the end of games this season we would not be having this discussion right now. Lebron is the Golden child of the League, and 2 time MVP coming into this season, and is the best player in the league, his stats show. Why is he not the clear choice as MVP?

[asu77golf]

If Lebron where able to make his clutch shots at the end of games this season we would not be having this discussion right now. Lebron is the Golden child of the League, and 2 time MVP coming into this season, and is the best player in the league, his stats show. Why is he not the clear choice as MVP?

http://www.randomblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/lebron-is-a-dick.gif

[Rose]

http://www.randomblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/lebron-is-a-dick.gif
fixed.

[FathosRgoodatBJ]

http://www.randomblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/lebron-is-a-dick.gif

Exactly, he's a dick and the media grew tired of the Golden boy. Why not give the award to a humble kid that plays the game right and very talented also.

[asu77golf]

Exactly, he's a dick and the media grew tired of the Golden boy. Why not give the award to a humble kid that plays the game right and very talented also.

I think it has a lot to do with the Heat under performing compared to the ridiculous expectations they had to deal with (self-imposed really). Also when you have two great players on one team it's hard for people to really claim one is the MVP over the other.

[Lebron23]

I think it has a lot to do with the Heat under performing compared to the ridiculous expectations they had to deal with (self-imposed really). Also when you have two great players on one team it's hard for people to really claim one is the MVP over the other.


I don't want to see LeBron win the MVP Award because the last NBA player to win the MVP Award and Finals MVP in the same NBA Season was 2003 Tim Duncan. LeBron would probably finish 2nd or 3rd in the MVP Voting, and kick some arrogant muddafacking 2nd round virgin @$$ in the playoffs. ( If they are lucky enough to survive in the preliminary round.)

[Professor Griff]

Derrick Rose definitely deserves the MVP and I will have zero complaints if he wins it but Lebron would be dead even with him right now if he had these same numbers but stayed with the Cavs instead. He is going to have going to have to have a state line like 30/8/8 and at least 60-65 wins just to overcome the animosity he gets from being on the Heat.

[FathosRgoodatBJ]

I think it has a lot to do with the Heat under performing compared to the ridiculous expectations they had to deal with (self-imposed really). Also when you have two great players on one team it's hard for people to really claim one is the MVP over the other.

You have answered your own question, op. That is exactly why Derrick Rose is the front runner for MVP, the Bulls have overachieved, no one in the league expected this bulls team to be a top seed in the east. Without Drose, this team would be a 7th-8th seed at best.

[ReturnofJPR]

Bron has it so easy...

Bron doesn't try half as hard as D-Rose does...

Imagine if Rose got to play with Wade and Bosh :lol


Talk about easy...

[nightprowler10]

I would like for him to take a few more mid-range jumpers, and a couple of less 3s. But let's admit it, him playing the way he is is winning us games.

[FathosRgoodatBJ]

I would like him to take considerably less three point shots, long range 2's, and take more mid-range shots and drives to the basket. It's painful to watch him have such poor shooting nights and the haters get a field day.

His midrange game has struggled since adding the 3. Next year his efficiency will be better, last year his mid range game was almost automatic, next year will really be his break out year.

[FathosRgoodatBJ]

I'd just rather him not take 3s unless he's wide open. OR is feeling it. Because before he was hitting like 2/5 or so. And now it's either 80%+ from 3 or 0%

He has to take the 3, his midrange game is garbage now, and I think that it's because of the high archer that he has on his shots now, this can be corrected over the off season.

[Tlova]

His midrange game has struggled since adding the 3. Next year his efficiency will be better, last year his mid range game was almost automatic, next year will really be his break out year.At least he can actually shoot and win games there supposed to win. Dude is going to rape rondo next month.:violin:

[FathosRgoodatBJ]

At least he can actually shoot and win games there supposed to win. Dude is going to rape rondo next month.:violin:

I think that the bulls are in great shape, and win a championship this year. Lets just hope that we don't lay an egg in the playoffs. This team reminds me of that Pistons team that took out the Lakers a few years ago in the finals.

[Heat007]

I think that the bulls are in great shape, and win a championship this year. Lets just hope that we don't lay an egg in the playoffs. This team reminds me of that Pistons team that took out the Lakers a few years ago in the finals.

LOL this Bulls team is not close to that Pistons team who had the Wallace's and all 5 starters could play great D

On the bulls their starters aren't nearly as good. Rose is average defensively (the defensive synergy stats have him at the middle of the pack for all guards), Boozer is below average defensively, and Bogans totally sucks everywhere.

Noah is a little overrated for what he brings. Thibs is doing it with smoke and mirrors and a couple of players off the bench. But in the playoffs benches shorten and he'll likely need offensive players off the bench to catch up when the starters aren't supplying the defense (as teams will prepare for them a lot better in the playoffs).

Talent comes out in the playoffs and all 5 of those pistons were immensely talented defensively (as individuals) in their prime during those years (even though Wade made the pistons defense look ridiculous in 2 playoff series in the 05 and 2006 playoffs ;-)

And the starting talent for the Bulls on defense is just not that good as their ranking suggests. Things even out in the playoffs ;-)

[Professor Griff]

Why would you rather see Rose take long twos? His percentages are probably roughyl the same from a step inside the three and a long two is the dumbest shot in basketball. Might as well shoot a foot farther away for three.

He is best when attacking the basket without question tho.

[phelix2000]

I know there have been numerous threads on Derrick Rose and the MVP, but I feel like making another and would like to have some questions answered as to why he is the MVP.

Bulls Record- 52-19, 1st in the East. Last 10 games 9-1
Miami Heat- 50-22, 3rd in East. Last 10 games 7-3
Orlando Magic- 47-26, 4th in East. Last 10 games 7-3
L.A. Lakers- 51-20, 2nd in West. Last 10 games 9-1

Derrick Rose Statistics
PPG- 24.9 shooting 44%
APG- 7.8
RBG- 4.2

Lebron James
PPG- 26.3 shooting 50.1%
APG- 7.4
RBG- 6.4

Dwyane Wade
PPG- 25.4 shooting 49.7%
APG- 4.4
RBG- 6.5

Kobe Bryant
PPG- 24.9 PPG shooting 45.4%
APG- 4.8
RBG- 5.2

Dwight Howard
PPG- 23.1
APG- 1.4
RBG- 14.2
BPG- 2.4

I understand that Roses' team has the best record out of all these teams thus far, but even with that being said I really have a hard time placing him ahead of Wade or James. Additionally, if Kobe continues to play like he has since the All Star Break and the Lakers finish with a better record I will be inclined to place Kobe ahead of Rose (unless Rose starts dominating games).

Statistically speaking I believe Lebron, Wade, and Howard have Rose beat. The one major flaw with Rose and especially of late is his efficiency (last few games have been horribly inefficient).

Teams

People talk about Lebron having Wade/Bosh and vice versa and Kobe having Pau, but Derrick Rose also has great teammates and they have one hell of a bench. Carlos Boozer is an all-star, healthy Noah is an absolute beast on the boards and Deng is averaging 17.8 PPG on 45% shooting. I think Rose and just as good of team as the Lakers or the Heat (besides the big 3 they really do suck). Dwight Howard clearly has the worst team out of the bunch. Yes, Nelson WAS an all-star, but he is clearly not close to an all star players these days. Gilbert Arenas hasn't been good since 06 and Hedo Turkoglu is a model of inconsistency. With all this being said Howard still has the Magic at the 4th seed I really do believe he has done so much more with such a lack of talent surrounding him.

With all this said I'm not sure how people can make the case for Rose as the MVP and I want to hear why those of you who do believe Rose is the MVP state the reasoning your decision.

[imdaman99]

Bron has it so easy...

Bron doesn't try half as hard as D-Rose does...

Imagine if Rose got to play with Wade and Bosh :lol


Talk about easy...
if he got to play with them 2 he wouldnt be the mvp or even the best player on the team, thats for sure. i dont see how ppl are saying NO ONE EXPECTED THE BULLS TO BE THIS GOOD. yeah they obviously have no other talent on the team right? :rolleyes: they are a top 5 talented team, if not one of the most, with a great defensive mind at coach, that has coached championship defenses before as an assistant.

[OKCThunderUP]

Dwight Howard is the real MVP.

[Colby Brian]

kobe, lakers have a better record than the bulls, heat, magic

[Grim]

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD YOU COULD HAVE PUT THAT IN THOSE FUKKiNG THREADS.

HOLY SHIT.

DELETE THIS NOW.

[Lebron23]

Dwight is my MVP. Bron and Wade are top 5 MVP candidates this season. LeBron is playing with Wade and Bosh, but he still 2nd in the NBA in scoring.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Dwight Howard is the real MVP.

this

But Rose will get it.

[Colby Brian]

Bron is 2nd in the NBA in points per game, I just checked the NBA Standings.

lol points - nba standings?

anyways lebron and wade cancel each other out, how can you say that wade isnt as worthy as lebron for mvp

[Tlova]

Dude is the MVP no doubt in my mind, dude kept his team alive without two of their best players. The bulls might have 60 wins if Noah never got hurt.

[Colby Brian]

lakers 52-20 (2nd best in NBA)
kobe 25/5/5
:confusedshrug:

[phelix2000]

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD YOU COULD HAVE PUT THAT IN THOSE FUKKiNG THREADS.

HOLY SHIT.

DELETE THIS NOW.

Read the top of this post, don't comment if you are going to whine.

[Lebron23]

lol points - nba standings?

anyways lebron and wade cancel each other out, how can you say that wade isnt as worthy as lebron for mvp

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

I just edited my post. By the way jeff needs to merge this Rose for MVP threads.

[Heat007]

And of course they're all a lot better than Rose is defensively.

Rose is in the middle of the pack for all guards in defensive synergy statistics. He's been hovering between below average to average to below average all season. Mediocre defensive player.

Of the non bigmen listed there it goes defensively like this (when looking at overall defensive synergy)

1) Wade



2) LeBron
















3) Kobe










































4) Rose

Rose will be the worst MVP ever in NBA history.

[UtahJazzFan88]

If Dwight's team had 5-6 more wins than what they have now, than Dwight easily, but the Bulls winning is what is giving Rose the MVP.

[Hulk Hogan]

I know there have been numerous threads on Derrick Rose and the MVP, but I feel like making another and would like to have some questions answered as to why he is the MVP.

Bulls Record- 52-19, 1st in the East. Last 10 games 9-1
Miami Heat- 50-22, 3rd in East. Last 10 games 7-3
Orlando Magic- 47-26, 4th in East. Last 10 games 7-3
L.A. Lakers- 51-20, 2nd in West. Last 10 games 9-1

Derrick Rose Statistics
PPG- 24.9 shooting 44%
APG- 7.8
RBG- 4.2

Lebron James
PPG- 26.3 shooting 50.1%
APG- 7.4
RBG- 6.4

Dwyane Wade
PPG- 25.4 shooting 49.7%
APG- 4.4
RBG- 6.5

Kobe Bryant
PPG- 24.9 PPG shooting 45.4%
APG- 4.8
RBG- 5.2

Dwight Howard
PPG- 23.1
APG- 1.4
RBG- 14.2
BPG- 2.4

I understand that Roses' team has the best record out of all these teams thus far, but even with that being said I really have a hard time placing him ahead of Wade or James. Additionally, if Kobe continues to play like he has since the All Star Break and the Lakers finish with a better record I will be inclined to place Kobe ahead of Rose (unless Rose starts dominating games).

Statistically speaking I believe Lebron, Wade, and Howard have Rose beat. The one major flaw with Rose and especially of late is his efficiency (last few games have been horribly inefficient).

Teams

People talk about Lebron having Wade/Bosh and vice versa and Kobe having Pau, but Derrick Rose also has great teammates and they have one hell of a bench. Carlos Boozer is an all-star, healthy Noah is an absolute beast on the boards and Deng is averaging 17.8 PPG on 45% shooting. I think Rose and just as good of team as the Lakers or the Heat (besides the big 3 they really do suck). Dwight Howard clearly has the worst team out of the bunch. Yes, Nelson WAS an all-star, but he is clearly not close to an all star players these days. Gilbert Arenas hasn't been good since 06 and Hedo Turkoglu is a model of inconsistency. With all this being said Howard still has the Magic at the 4th seed I really do believe he has done so much more with such a lack of talent surrounding him.

With all this said I'm not sure how people can make the case for Rose as the MVP and I want to hear why those of you who do believe Rose is the MVP state the reasoning your decision.

First of all, Boozer and Noah has missed 54 games combined!
Regardless, my personal opinion is that the MVP is for grabs.
The person with the highest possiblity to win it is Rose followed by Kobe.

Rose can win it easily if he has okay decent games for the rest of the season.

James and Wade are just out of the question!

Kobe can also win it if he continues his current performance and LA take the 2nd seed from Chicago!

If Kobe continues his current trend and LA takes the second seed and the Magics win less than 80% of the rest of their games. Kobe wins it.

If Kobe doesn't play good and LA fail to take the second seed then Kobe is out of the question.

If Rose keeps playing bad and The Magics keeps winning.
Howard will win it.

[ReturnofJPR]

First of all, LeBron and Wade cancel themselves out. Neither can ever be the MVP while they play with each other and Bosh.

Kobe is too old and Bynum is the reason that team has been winning post All Star Break.

Dwight is a C thus shoots for a high % but is on a team that isn't elite.

Thus, Rose is the MVP because of all of the reasons that have already been mentioned. And more...

And everyone here knows that Heat007 actually is a puerto rican tranny prostitute on south beach so pay him/her no attention.

[Hulk Hogan]

First of all, LeBron and Wade cancel themselves out. Neither can ever be the MVP while they play with each other and Bosh.

Kobe is too old and Bynum is the reason that team has been winning post All Star Break.

Dwight is a C thus shoots for a high % but is on a team that isn't elite.

Thus, Rose is the MVP because of all of the reasons that have already been mentioned. And more...

And everyone here knows that Heat007 actually is a puerto rican tranny prostitute on south beach so pay him/her no attention.

The reason they won the last 2 games before tonight right?
Get your facts right, the only people who believes that are the anti-kobe stans.

[che guevara]

And of course they're all a lot better than Rose is defensively.

Rose is in the middle of the pack for all guards in defensive synergy statistics. He's been hovering between below average to average to below average all season. Mediocre defensive player.

Of the non bigmen listed there it goes defensively like this (when looking at overall defensive synergy)

Defensive synergy? wtf? And no, Wade has no case whatsoever as the best defensive guard in the league considering his awful effort for the first 4 months of the season. He's been great from the Lakers game and on, but you can't make up 4 months in 2 weeks. Non-homer Heat fans will be the first to tell you.

[Colby Brian]

First of all, LeBron and Wade cancel themselves out. Neither can ever be the MVP while they play with each other and Bosh.

Kobe is too old and Bynum is the reason that team has been winning post All Star Break.

Dwight is a C thus shoots for a high % but is on a team that isn't elite.

Thus, Rose is the MVP because of all of the reasons that have already been mentioned. And more...

And everyone here knows that Heat007 actually is a puerto rican tranny prostitute on south beach so pay him/her no attention.

kobe too old, hes way better than your boy drose, anyways kobe will get finals mvp atleast

[ReturnofJPR]

if he got to play with them 2 he wouldnt be the mvp or even the best player on the team, thats for sure. i dont see how ppl are saying NO ONE EXPECTED THE BULLS TO BE THIS GOOD. yeah they obviously have no other talent on the team right? :rolleyes: they are a top 5 talented team, if not one of the most, with a great defensive mind at coach, that has coached championship defenses before as an assistant.

Clearly you are an idiot as everyone in the world knows Rose is better than both Wade and Bosh and here is an article to prove how worthless your thoughts really are:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/news/story?id=6178194

"DERRICK ROSE
By the slimmest of margins Rose has proven himself the better player. He may lack Wade's charisma and panache, but Rose edges him in a number of significant areas that matter more to superstardom. Wade is a marquee slasher, but Rose gets into the lane even more easily and is already a better shooter from the elbow and behind the arc."

[ReturnofJPR]

The reason they won the last 2 games before tonight right?
Get your facts right, the only people who believes that are the anti-kobe stans.

Oh yeah cuz 2 games equals the amount of games since the All Star Game you jackass!

[D.J.]

Rose will be the worst MVP ever in NBA history.


Steve Nash ring a bell?

[midatlantic09]

The REAL MVP is either Lebron or Dwight. Of course, the media will deny this.

[chazzy]

Steve Nash ring a bell?
Peak Nash is better than Rose currently

[D.J.]

Peak Nash is better than Rose currently


Peak Nash was an even worse defender than Rose is now. Rose has the Bulls at the #1 seed with Noah and Boozer both missing over 20 games.

[GatorKid117]

Peak Nash was an even worse defender than Rose is now. Rose has the Bulls at the #1 seed with Noah and Boozer both missing over 20 games.

Peak Nash is better than Rose currently.

[D.J.]

Peak Nash is better than Rose currently.


I don't give a sh*t. It's the Most Valuable Player, not the best player. Boozer has missed over 20 games and Noah has missed half the season. Rose or Howard winning MVP, I have no problem with. But the hate on Derrick Rose is laughable.

[Kaspah]

Derrick Rose doesn't care if he wins the MVP. Shut.Up.

Media does what it does. Rose is the most selfless one out of all the candidates in my opinion. Stats don't dictate MVP clearly, it's influenced on the media and circumstantial.

With that being said, I'd bet Rose wouldn't mind losing the MVP just to glorify winning the finals even more. :pimp:

[GatorKid117]

I don't give a sh*t. It's the Most Valuable Player, not the best player. Boozer has missed over 20 games and Noah has missed half the season. Rose or Howard winning MVP, I have no problem with. But the hate on Derrick Rose is laughable.

How is saying peak Nash is better than Rose hating when its true?

[asdf1990]

Derrick Rose doesn't care if he wins the MVP. Shut.Up.

Media does what it does. Rose is the most selfless one out of all the candidates in my opinion. Stats don't dictate MVP clearly, it's influenced on the media and circumstantial.

With that being said, I'd bet Rose wouldn't mind losing the MVP just to glorify winning the finals even more. :pimp:

quote from Rose: Why can't I be MVP, so he cares.

I just wanna lol at the speech he is gonna give.

[D.J.]

How is saying peak Nash is better than Rose hating when its true?


This discussion isn't about Nash. Rose is getting hate with this MVP discussion when discussion had a case for being runner up in '05 and didn't deserve his '06 MVP at all.

[nightprowler10]

The REAL MVP is either Lebron or Dwight. Of course, the media will deny this.

Media love Dwight and LeBron more than anybody else in the league. Rose doesn't come close.

[magnax1]

I'm just not happy with the general state of the MVP award. I don't like it not being given out to a real superstar like Dwight, Kobe, Lebron or Wade, and before Dirk and sort of Nash, they really didn't give it out to a player who wasn't in that tier excluding maybe Unseld. I was really unhappy about Dirk getting MVP because he was probably the first guy in forever that just wasn't that superstar caliber to win it (Nash probably wasn't either, though I think he was pretty borderline, and his value to his team was probably a lot higher then Dirk) but now I just don't really care that they're doing it again because MVP has really lost its value.

[Kaspah]

quote from Rose: Why can't I be MVP, so he cares.

I just wanna lol at the speech he is gonna give.

I don't believe he ever said that. I remember him saying "Why can't we win the whole thing?". Or something similar to the effect of why can't we win the championship.

Have a link as to where he claimed the MVP thing?

[Clocian-IGN]

oh look, ANOTHER rose hater thread. where were are you guys the past few games? just cant get enough of rose can ya, can't blame ya :D

PG - 25/8/4 bulls - 1 in the east

only important stats. the rest of the argument is in the game

[Pointguard]

I know there have been numerous threads on Derrick Rose and the MVP, but I feel like making another and would like to have some questions answered as to why he is the MVP.

I understand that Roses' team has the best record out of all these teams thus far, but even with that being said I really have a hard time placing him ahead of Wade or James. Additionally, if Kobe continues to play like he has since the All Star Break and the Lakers finish with a better record I will be inclined to place Kobe ahead of Rose (unless Rose starts dominating games).

Statistically speaking I believe Lebron, Wade, and Howard have Rose beat. The one major flaw with Rose and especially of late is his efficiency (last few games have been horribly inefficient).

Teams

People talk about Lebron having Wade/Bosh and vice versa and Kobe having Pau, but Derrick Rose also has great teammates and they have one hell of a bench. Carlos Boozer is an all-star, healthy Noah is an absolute beast on the boards and Deng is averaging 17.8 PPG on 45% shooting. I think Rose and just as good of team as the Lakers or the Heat (besides the big 3 they really do suck). Dwight Howard clearly has the worst team out of the bunch. Yes, Nelson WAS an all-star, but he is clearly not close to an all star players these days. Gilbert Arenas hasn't been good since 06 and Hedo Turkoglu is a model of inconsistency. With all this being said Howard still has the Magic at the 4th seed I really do believe he has done so much more with such a lack of talent surrounding him.

With all this said I'm not sure how people can make the case for Rose as the MVP and I want to hear why those of you who do believe Rose is the MVP state the reasoning your decision.
Who is great on Chicago like Wade or Bosh or Bynum or Gasol? All of which are near the top of their positions? You can't produce an argument about stats and then say Kobe is deserving when they are similiar to Rose's.

DH and his team were a game and a half away from Chicago on March 1st and then lost to Chicago and it wasn't the same since. In their defining moment he couldn't help them and his worse games in the last two months came at this wrong time.

Lebron....Wade....Bosh......Miller....House...Bibb y........Z .......Haslem
Rose.......Boozer...Deng......Noah....Korver...Gib son....Asik......Thomas
Kobe.......Gasol.....Bynum....Odom...Brown....Arte st....Barnes....Blake

Factor in experience, years playing together, injuries, knowing their roles, pure talent, height, MVP's, final appearances, versatility, offensive fire power, creativity from different positions, final MVP's, all defensive teams, and coaching and I'm sure you came away convinced that Chicago was a superior team that just oughta have the same record as Lakeshow and the Heat.

Wade, Lebron and Kobe lead teams that should have ran away with their conferences. Instead it seems like neither of them will have earned that position. Chicago lost two important players for a total of 55+ games. New coach, new system, new leader, new players. As poster Deron Millsap said you have five key categories. Pts, Rds, Asst, Wins and leadership. Efficiency is inferior to these in a season where leadership hasn't been consistent in any of the other candidates. Rose has always been more consistent then he is now but the limitations, changes and challenges his team faced have him in a different situation. It is more important that he pressure and keep the defense off balance than seek efficiency.

[Kaspah]

I'm just not happy with the general state of the MVP award. I don't like it not being given out to a real superstar like Dwight, Kobe, Lebron or Wade, and before Dirk and sort of Nash, they really didn't give it out to a player who wasn't in that tier excluding maybe Unseld. I was really unhappy about Dirk getting MVP because he was probably the first guy in forever that just wasn't that superstar caliber to win it (Nash probably wasn't either, though I think he was pretty borderline, and his value to his team was probably a lot higher then Dirk) but now I just don't really care that they're doing it again because MVP has really lost its value.


This.

It's an award gone bad, by the media. It's not worth even arguing over it because the criteria has been totally shot. It's someone's words over anothers in terms of teamwork, stats, struggles, records, etc.. We'll never agree because the award is more of a flavor of the season.

[magnax1]

This.

It's an award gone bad, by the media. It's not worth even arguing over it because the criteria has been totally shot. It's someone's words over anothers in terms of teamwork, stats, struggles, records, etc.. We'll never agree because the award is more of a flavor of the season.
Exactly. I just don't think that guys like Rose Nash and Dirk could have as much of an impact as the superstars the won over, no matter the wins or whatever. Just watching a game I don't know how you could come to the conclusion that DRose had more of an impact then Dwight.
And yeah, it's really become a popularity contest. It's not like I don't like Rose, he's played great, and he's on the track to becoming a Kobe Lebron level player, but he's just popular right now.

[GatorKid117]

This discussion isn't about Nash. Rose is getting hate with this MVP discussion when discussion had a case for being runner up in '05 and didn't deserve his '06 MVP at all.

:lol then why did you bring him up? You brought up the comparison. Don't bring Nash into the discussion and then back out.

Whether he won the award or not, Nash was a better player so its moot anyway. It is not hating to say Nash is better than Rose.

[Pointguard]

LOL,

Best standout player on one of the best teams - Or Winner, Leader, Primary Stats. Repeat offenders must improve their numbers. Next is storyline. It worked like this 90% of the time. Magnax and Kaspah stop acting like it isn't formulistic.

[MayCeltics]

Dwight is most deserving this year.

Unreal Numbers 23ppg 14.2rpg 2.4bpg 1.3spg All while shooting Over 60% :bowdown:

[Pointguard]

Exactly. I just don't think that guys like Rose Nash and Dirk could have as much of an impact as the superstars the won over, no matter the wins or whatever. Just watching a game I don't know how you could come to the conclusion that DRose had more of an impact then Dwight.
And yeah, it's really become a popularity contest. It's not like I don't like Rose, he's played great, and he's on the track to becoming a Kobe Lebron level player, but he's just popular right now.

Remember, DH, MayCeltics and Kaspah the Magic were a super power in the beginning of the year. Chicago replaced them in that equation. If you can give me one example when a team underachieves and another team overachieves they give it the guy whose team was the bottom half of that deal over the guy whose team overachieved. I doubt any sport works that way.

[magnax1]

Remember, DH, MayCeltics and Kaspah the Magic were a super power in the beginning of the year. Chicago replaced them in that equation. If you can give me one example when a team underachieves and another team overachieves they give it the guy whose team was the bottom half of that deal over the guy whose team overachieved. I doubt any sport works that way.
Magic aren't underachieving as much as they've just decayed. They've got pieces who've for the most part have gotten worse since 2009 and yet they're pretty close to the level of play they were at in 2009.

[gmoney9]

I hate when people, in general, bring up team record/standings and make it the all end factor to the mvp consideration when the separation in records are almost 5 games or less btw them the teams. If there's a larger separation in wins than I see the argument w/ it though

[Pointguard]

I hate when people, in general, bring up team record/standings and make it the all end factor to the mvp consideration when the separation in records are almost 5 games or less btw them the teams. If there's a larger separation in wins than I see the argument w/ it though

The lead is 6 games isn't it??? Wasn't it less than two in March? If you get separation when it counts, that shouldn't mean anything? 1st seed vs 4th? Look at history and see how generous the award is to players with the 8th best record in the league or worse. Its less than 8 percent since the media started voting. And it never happens when the team is expected to finisher higher.

[Pointguard]

Magic aren't underachieving as much as they've just decayed. They've got pieces who've for the most part have gotten worse since 2009 and yet they're pretty close to the level of play they were at in 2009.

Doesn't matter... expectations factor in. Roses team overachievment is a more meaningful story than DH's team deterioating.

[magnax1]

The lead is 6 games isn't it??? Wasn't it less than two in March? If you get separation when it counts, that shouldn't mean anything? 1st seed vs 4th? Look at history and see how generous the award is to players with the 8th best record in the league. Its less than 8 percent since the media started voting. And it never happens when the team is expected to finisher higher.
First off, the award is about impact on the team, and it's really plainly obvious that Dwight has more of an impact on the win loss total of his team, and he's to end up with 50-55 wins.
Secondly, when I've been saying that the media has been regularly changing the meaning of the award and taking away it's value by giving it to players who don't impact the game on an all time level, and then you go and show me the criteria the media has been using to do this, it just doesn't make much sense.

[chazzy]

Magic aren't underachieving as much as they've just decayed. They've got pieces who've for the most part have gotten worse since 2009 and yet they're pretty close to the level of play they were at in 2009.
Exactly, they traded 2 starters and a couple key bench players (including their only other center :oldlol: ) midway through the season. They're not underachieving because of Dwight, as he's improved greatly on the offensive end from last year, so the difference in their record from last season is moot.

[Pointguard]

First off, the award is about impact on the team, and it's really plainly obvious that Dwight has more of an impact on the win loss total of his team, and he's to end up with 50-55 wins.
Secondly, when I've been saying that the media has been regularly changing the meaning of the award and taking away it's value by giving it to players who don't impact the game on an all time level, and then you go and show me the criteria the media has been using to do this, it just doesn't make much sense.

No one can say what would happen without this or that player. D Rose is their closer and leader. From the beginning of the year to this date he's brought pressure and leadership every game. No disappearing acts. Or him not showing up and playing hard. If Dwight had played harder in the beginning of the season I really believes he wins the award. But he didn't. You live and you learn.

Its just been that type of year where the superstars Lebron, Wade, Kobe and DH were missing from a lot of games they played. How do you reward guys like that? Chicago went thru more changes and exceeded expectations at a high level. Rose was there pushing the issue all the time. All of those guys could have won it if they brought the goods every game. They didn't and that not Rose's fault.

[Pointguard]

Exactly, they traded 2 starters and a couple key bench players (including their only other center :oldlol: ) midway through the season. They're not underachieving because of Dwight, as he's improved greatly on the offensive end from last year, so the difference in their record from last season is moot.

No its not. In the critical games in March, DH, who plays the weakest position in the sport and rarely gets comp there, didn't have a big game against important teams when his team was relegated down to a number 4 spot. His worse games in the last two months came at this time. Bynum got an unheard of 9 offensive rebounds - something centers just don't do anymore. A rookie rocked him for 26 points. He got suspended. He didn't play his heart out against Chicago. In Miami the other two stars looked better. He didn't step it up for the big games. That's on him.

[magnax1]

No one can say what would happen without this or that player. D Rose is their closer and leader. From the beginning of the year to this date he's brought pressure and leadership every game. No disappearing acts. Or him not showing up and playing hard. If Dwight had played harder in the beginning of the season I really believes he wins the award. But he didn't. You live and you learn.
That's just looking way to hard into the stats if you think he didn't play as hard in the beginning of the season. The 2 reasons his tats were worse in the beginning were that his team mates couldn't (and still mostly can't) throw a decent entry pass, and he played less minutes. Dwight has just regularly played better then Rose, and yes you can say that without a doubt if you watch him. Rose has 3 players better then Dwight's second best player and yet is only 7 games ahead of him.


Its just been that type of year where the superstars Lebron, Wade, Kobe and DH were missing from a lot of games they played. How do you reward guys like that? Chicago went thru more changes and exceeded expectations at a high level. Rose was there pushing the issue all the time. All of those guys could have won it if they brought the goods every game. They didn't and that not Rose's fault.

It's not about expectations, or winning with injuries. It's about who has the most value to his team. And the answer to that question is plain and simple Dwight Howard. What does Dwight even do worse then Rose? 1 less point a game on 15% higher FG%, second best defender in the league, Best rebounder (or second) in the league. Saying Rose is the best point guard is extremely questionable at this point, and yet he's winning MVP?
He's great, but I just can't logically say a guy who is somewhere between 7-10th best in the league is more valuable, or more impactful then a guy who brings 23 points 14 boards and some of the best defense and carries a team of shooters to mid 50 wins. It just doesn't make any sense to me what so ever.

[NBASTATMAN]

No one can say what would happen without this or that player. D Rose is their closer and leader. From the beginning of the year to this date he's brought pressure and leadership every game. No disappearing acts. Or him not showing up and playing hard. If Dwight had played harder in the beginning of the season I really believes he wins the award. But he didn't. You live and you learn.

Its just been that type of year where the superstars Lebron, Wade, Kobe and DH were missing from a lot of games they played. How do you reward guys like that? Chicago went thru more changes and exceeded expectations at a high level. Rose was there pushing the issue all the time. All of those guys could have won it if they brought the goods every game. They didn't and that not Rose's fault.



:applause:

The Kobe stans are arguing that his stats are bad yet his stats are better than kobe's.. The lebron stans are arguing the same yet forget that Lebron choked about 4 or 5 games ... Rose has been money all season and clutch once again tonight...

25,8 ass ,4 rebounds

When you consider their slow offense his numbers are actually great.. He is contributing over 42% of his teams offense... Probably the best in the league..


THE ONLY OTHER GUY WITH A CASE IS DHOWARD

[PHX_Phan]

Steve Nash ring a bell?
:facepalm

[phelix2000]

delete this post

[whoartthou]

LOL this Bulls team is not close to that Pistons team who had the Wallace's and all 5 starters could play great D

On the bulls their starters aren't nearly as good. Rose is average defensively (the defensive synergy stats have him at the middle of the pack for all guards), Boozer is below average defensively, and Bogans totally sucks everywhere.

Noah is a little overrated for what he brings. Thibs is doing it with smoke and mirrors and a couple of players off the bench. But in the playoffs benches shorten and he'll likely need offensive players off the bench to catch up when the starters aren't supplying the defense (as teams will prepare for them a lot better in the playoffs).

Talent comes out in the playoffs and all 5 of those pistons were immensely talented defensively (as individuals) in their prime during those years (even though Wade made the pistons defense look ridiculous in 2 playoff series in the 05 and 2006 playoffs ;-)

And the starting talent for the Bulls on defense is just not that good as their ranking suggests. Things even out in the playoffs ;-)

i don't think he meant that the bulls remind him of the pistons DEFENSIVELY, but in the sense that the pistons were a well-rounded team, and so are the bulls. Obviously pistons D >>> bulls, but ye..:confusedshrug:

[phelix2000]

:applause:

The Kobe stans are arguing that his stats are bad yet his stats are better than kobe's.. The lebron stans are arguing the same yet forget that Lebron choked about 4 or 5 games ... Rose has been money all season and clutch once again tonight...

25,8 ass ,4 rebounds

When you consider their slow offense his numbers are actually great.. He is contributing over 42% of his teams offense... Probably the best in the league..


THE ONLY OTHER GUY WITH A CASE IS DHOWARD

Ok, I've seen you and another poster now talk about D.Rose game on 3/25 as if it was some spectacular game. I want to point out while 25, 7, 4 are good stats for a game unless of course you shoot 6/22 (27%) and since March 2nd he has been incredibly inefficient, from looking at stats I would say he has shot somewhere around 38% for the month of March. Yes, I know his team has also won a lot of these games, but I think more of these wins have to do with his teammates really stepping up. I don't dislike D.Rose at all and he has made great strides since joining the NBA, but he just isn't worthy of the MVP. People also point out a new team which I think is a poor argument, hell look at the Nuggets since the ASB. I don't think the new team argument for the Heat works, because besides the big 3 that team is really garbage (even though Chalmers has stepped up as of late)

[chazzy]

No its not. In the critical games in March, DH, who plays the weakest position in the sport and rarely gets comp there, didn't have a big game against important teams when his team was relegated down to a number 4 spot. His worse games in the last two months came at this time. Bynum got an unheard of 9 offensive rebounds - something centers just don't do anymore. A rookie rocked him for 26 points. He got suspended. He didn't play his heart out against Chicago. In Miami the other two stars looked better. He didn't step it up for the big games. That's on him.
The award is for the entire body of work, not a couple of cherry picked games in March. Not having enough comp at his position only INCREASES his value as a player, I never get why people say that lol. That's only applicable if you wanna compare Dwight to centers of other eras. And if you think the award is weighted more towards stretches near the end of the season, then Dwight individually blows Rose out of the water post all star break.

[StacksOnDeck]

Lol how are Rose's stats better than Kobe's?

[GatorKid117]

No its not. In the critical games in March, DH, who plays the weakest position in the sport and rarely gets comp there, didn't have a big game against important teams when his team was relegated down to a number 4 spot. His worse games in the last two months came at this time. Bynum got an unheard of 9 offensive rebounds - something centers just don't do anymore. A rookie rocked him for 26 points. He got suspended. He didn't play his heart out against Chicago. In Miami the other two stars looked better. He didn't step it up for the big games. That's on him.

Couple things: tell me more about how Cousins rocked Howard. What did you witness when you watched the game. And if you can, remind me what position Cousins plays on the Kings and what position Howard plays for the Magic.

Also, explain how you came to the conclusion that Howard didn't play his heart out and provide some evidence. How do you know for a fact he didn't?

And one final thing, explain how Howard looked worse when LeBron and Wade choked the whole 2nd half and allowed the Magic to go on a 40-9 run and win the game. It's all about the win right?

Gracias.

[Christofire]

I would like him to take considerably less three point shots, long range 2's, and take more mid-range shots and drives to the basket. It's painful to watch him have such poor shooting nights and the haters get a field day.
Been saying this for a while now. I honestly feel as though if Tibbs doesn't curtail all the deep Balls that this will hurt the bulls in the playoffs. We get it D Rose you're a good 3pt shooter now, but 3s are still the lowest percentage shots, take those when you're in rhythm and open. Get back to those mud range Jumpers you were shooting last season. In most games where he shoots horribly are games where he shoots atleats 5 3s. limit his 3s to 2 a game and if he's open or feeling it from down there he can take a few more, but please quit chucking the off balance and pull up 3s. You're not deron Williams, he's prefected that shot you haven't yet

[NBASTATMAN]

Lol how are Rose's stats better than Kobe's?


25 and 8 assist 4 rebound and over a 2-1 assist to turnover ratio


25 and 5 and 5 rebounds with a 1.6 to 1 turnover ratio

Both players have a true shooting percentage in 54% kobes ' is a bit higher..




That means that Rose is involved in over 42 percent of THE BULLS scoring.. Kobe is closer to 34 percent... :applause:


Rose has had to play without the best two big men on his team for over 50 games...

Kobe has a much better players around him...

[StephenJohnNash]

Everyone knows the real "most valuable player" never actually wins it. #1 seed in either conference + leader the team =MVP of media. Stop making the same damn thread everyday. Plus this award is so subjective.

I'm gonna make a prediction..Rose will win MVP, and 384597348345 of you will keep making these threads saying he didn't deserve it.

[NBASTATMAN]

Ok, I've seen you and another poster now talk about D.Rose game on 3/25 as if it was some spectacular game. I want to point out while 25, 7, 4 are good stats for a game unless of course you shoot 6/22 (27%) and since March 2nd he has been incredibly inefficient, from looking at stats I would say he has shot somewhere around 38% for the month of March. Yes, I know his team has also won a lot of these games, but I think more of these wins have to do with his teammates really stepping up. I don't dislike D.Rose at all and he has made great strides since joining the NBA, but he just isn't worthy of the MVP. People also point out a new team which I think is a poor argument, hell look at the Nuggets since the ASB. I don't think the new team argument for the Heat works, because besides the big 3 that team is really garbage (even though Chalmers has stepped up as of late)


He accounts for more pts on his team than any other player does for there team.. I think Dhoward is actually making a better case but his teams record may not let him win it...

Yes Rose has been shooting bad for the last couple of weeks but his shooting is still pretty close to KOBE'S.. And his assist to turnover ratio is better than bron,wade's and Kobe...

He has been more clutch than any of those guys as well.. He has hit big shots vs wade,kobe, and bron.. He has won when both boozer and noah were out..

Besides Dhoward there is no case for any other player.. If Dhowards team keeps winning than yes I believe he gets closer cuz he is playing much better than any other single player in the league...

[LEFT4DEAD]

Dont worry. Lebron will get it. He has the best numbers and he will have around 60 wins team record.
Stop with that "he have wade thing". MVP award has lost its meaning long time ago.

[Loneshot]

Yeah Dwight is definitely the MVP. Because when I think MVP I think of a player who can barely get touches down the stretch on a team where he's supposed to be the leader.

As long as Wade/Bron play together, neither will nor deserves an MVP, so lets kill that already.

[Chicago Brawls]

Dwight's team has the 8th best record in the NBA. They are right where everybody predicted they would be.

I guess he is not that valuable.

Rose have to shot. He's not going to last long if he keeps driving like a madman. Somebody will kill him in the paint.

[d.bball.guy]

Well, this is my Top 6 MVP candidates (not in order):

LeBron
Dwight
Kobe
Dirk
Rose
Wade

It's my opinion. Many players up there deserves it more than Rose.

Edit: Forgot Wade

[Pointguard]

That's just looking way to hard into the stats if you think he didn't play as hard in the beginning of the season. The 2 reasons his tats were worse in the beginning were that his team mates couldn't (and still mostly can't) throw a decent entry pass, and he played less minutes. Dwight has just regularly played better then Rose, and yes you can say that without a doubt if you watch him. Rose has 3 players better then Dwight's second best player and yet is only 7 games ahead of him.

No stats were in my statement. He stepped his game up with the new guys. No way has Dwight regularly played better than Rose - Nov and Dec. DH's team wasn't playing as good as he did in Feb/Mar. And when the games counted he played worse and sometimes he flat out disappeared.



It's not about expectations, or winning with injuries. It's about who has the most value to his team. And the answer to that question is plain and simple Dwight Howard. What does Dwight even do worse then Rose? 1 less point a game on 15% higher FG%, second best defender in the league, Best rebounder (or second) in the league. Saying Rose is the best point guard is extremely questionable at this point, and yet he's winning MVP?
He's great, but I just can't logically say a guy who is somewhere between 7-10th best in the league is more valuable, or more impactful then a guy who brings 23 points 14 boards and some of the best defense and carries a team of shooters to mid 50 wins. It just doesn't make any sense to me what so ever.
Leadership. Playing hard and putting pressure on teams all the time. Chicago won more because Rose played every quarter of every game. Howard didn't. Howard has no comp at his position but let it be a critical game and then he isn't as valueable. In March he feasted on the weak and wasn't as impactful when the games counted most.

[ShaqAttack3234]

No stats were in my statement. He stepped his game up with the new guys. No way has Dwight regularly played better than Rose - Nov and Dec. DH wasn't playing as good as he did in Feb/Mar. And when the games counted he played worse and sometimes he flat out disappeared.

:facepalm

Rose has far more bad games than Dwight, but Chicago often wins anyway because Rose doesn't have to play as well as Howard to win.

[pauk]

no he is not.... he is in contention..... but he is not a clear mvp... a runaway mvp.... there is no runaway mvp this year at all.... thats why its hard....

the list is:

lebron
kobe
dwight
dirk
wade
rose

6 guys.... and i mean this is a freakin tie.... a pure toss up for MVP this year....

but i think rose might get away with it.... he has been overrated to the fury of an angry god....

ppl see me bash rose... but not like this... i bash only for obvious reasons.... his overratedness and shotjacking (if u dont think he is overrated or is not shotjacking something is ****ing wrong with u)

[Pointguard]

:facepalm

Rose has far more bad games than Dwight, but Chicago often wins anyway because Rose doesn't have to play as well as Howard to win.

What you see as a bad game for Rose statistically, isn't always a bad game. The team still draws energy from him and still has his confidence. Yesterday was a bad game statistically but he still won that game. Derrick Rose is intrinsically involved the offense even when missing. He can miss a lot but he's created so much chaos that it creates baskets for the front line. You see this a lot. His attack involves other players and creates for teammates that need him to do this so that they can get off. If he has the defense scrambling all game, it affects their morale at the end of games. A bad game for Rose is when he isn't dismantling defenses.

Rose's mission for the game is strategic (inovolving the break down of the other team) and not necessarily efficient. When he doesn't attack that's a bad game. He can attack and if the front line doesn't capitalize from it, that too, is a bad game. Its a little more complicated for Rose because he wears more responsible hats than most (closer, distributer, main option, dismantler, leader). DH isn't under that pressure, and the mentality of taking over games isn't the same as Rose's either. Whereas, DH can disappear and has, Rose doesn't have that option.

[NBASTATMAN]

:facepalm

Rose has far more bad games than Dwight, but Chicago often wins anyway because Rose doesn't have to play as well as Howard to win.


Rose is still accounting for 42 percent of his teams points.. And his team is somehow in FIRST PLACE OVER THE HEAT and Celtics who have way more star power...


He is the MVP and Dhoward is second.. STOP HATING... All the KOBE AND BRON STANS ARE HATING ON THIS KID....

[ShaqAttack3234]

What you see as a bad game for Rose statistically, isn't always a bad game. The team still draws energy from him and still has his confidence. Yesterday was a bad game statistically but he still won that game. Derrick Rose is intrinsically involved the offense even when missing. He can miss a lot but he's created so much chaos that it creates baskets for the front line. You see this a lot. His attack involves other players and creates for teammates that need him to do this so that they can get off. If he has the defense scrambling all game, it affects their morale at the end of games. A bad game for Rose is when he isn't dismantling defenses.

Rose's mission for the game is strategic (inovolving the break down of the other team) and not necessarily efficient. When he doesn't attack that's a bad game. He can attack and if the front line doesn't capitalize from it, that too, is a bad game. Its a little more complicated for Rose because he wears more responsible hats than most (closer, distributer, main option, dismantler, leader). DH isn't under that pressure, and the mentality of taking over games isn't the same as Rose's either. Whereas, DH can disappear and has, Rose doesn't have that option.

Dwight can't disappear and win. Even if he's playing poor offensively(which he doesn't do much of anymore), he still has to anchor their defense and dominate the boards because nobody else is going to.

And it's not like he has a consistent go to scorer either. His only teammate who has averaged over 15 ppg this year is Vince Carter who played 22 games with Orlando and wasn't really consistent or a championship-caliber second option at this point.

J-Rich is a good, one-dimensional scorer/shooter, but he's streaky, and not very good off the dribble.

Turk is a role player giving role player production. Some nights he'll look great facilitating, but he hasn't scored well, he's taken a lot of bad shots and he's been inconsistent.

Jameer can sometimes have big games, but his season high is what? 26 ppg? He's also undersized, isn't a true point guard and a poor decision maker.

You really can't expect much more than the 52-54 wins Howard is probably going to lead this team to. I think that how much a star wins is important and often reflects the player, but you have to consider the circumstance. Howard won 59 games each of the last 2 seasons, but most agree that he's improved significantly this year. That should tell you something, his team was simply better and played better those seasons and the East has gotten stronger this season.

Dwight does a lot of things that don't show up in the stat sheet too. He gets teams into a ton of foul trouble with his 12 FTA per game, he anchors the defense and that goes beyond blocked shots statistics. In fact, despite dropping from 2.9 and 2.8 bpg the last 2 seasons, respectively to 2.4 this year, I think he may be having his best defensive season. As far as his rotations and help defense, I've never seen him better. He's also drawing more double teams than he ever has before.

And for the record, I do think Rose has that intangible that makes players a winner, I think that's he why he won in college and why he played so well vs Boston in 2009, but I don't see him as the player Howard is. Nothing against Rose, but Howard is that good right now. Only Lebron is better at the moment, IMO.

[Bigsmoke]

yea he needs to take that shit to the rack more but hell we still winning these games.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I had him as MVP but after all the recent HORRID shooting games, I'm not so sure anymore. Dwight and Nowitzki are just as deserving.

[Pointguard]

Couple things: tell me more about how Cousins rocked Howard. What did you witness when you watched the game. And if you can, remind me what position Cousins plays on the Kings and what position Howard plays for the Magic.

Also, explain how you came to the conclusion that Howard didn't play his heart out and provide some evidence. How do you know for a fact he didn't?

And one final thing, explain how Howard looked worse when LeBron and Wade choked the whole 2nd half and allowed the Magic to go on a 40-9 run and win the game. It's all about the win right?

Gracias.
Ha, I saw Cousin's foul out DH, and DH had just disqualified himself from the previous game so he wasn't there to finish a close, should be easy game, that would have put Chicago up 8 games in the lost column. I saw a coach that didn't have enough confidence in DH to contain another seven footer to put him consistently on him. I had seen enough.

DH in the Chicago game was ok, 20 and 10, against the great back up center Asik. DH did muster up 8 FGA but I guess Asik will do that to you.

Jason Richardson and Jameer Nelson won that game against the Heat. Lebron and Wade looked better to me than DH did despite Miami not having a real center. It would have been nice to see DH take the humiliation Lebron laid on them in the previous game in front of DH's three bosses in Orlando to heart. But they did get the win.

[chazzy]

Jason Richardson and Jameer Nelson won that game against the Heat. Lebron and Wade looked better to me than DH did despite Miami not having a real center. It would have been nice to see DH take the humiliation Lebron laid on them in the previous game in front of DH's three bosses in Orlando to heart. But they did get the win.
Lol, they disappeared in the 2nd half. Lebron had 0 points and Wade had 2 in the 4th quarter. Dwight didn't score much but he was dominant defensively and drew the defenses in to free up open shooters all game. Ended up with 18 boards, 5 assists, and 5 blocks.

[Pointguard]

You really can't expect much more than the 52-54 wins Howard is probably going to lead this team to. I think that how much a star wins is important and often reflects the player, but you have to consider the circumstance. Howard won 59 games each of the last 2 seasons, but most agree that he's improved significantly this year. That should tell you something, his team was simply better and played better those seasons and the East has gotten stronger this season.

Dwight does a lot of things that don't show up in the stat sheet too. He gets teams into a ton of foul trouble with his 12 FTA per game, he anchors the defense and that goes beyond blocked shots statistics. In fact, despite dropping from 2.9 and 2.8 bpg the last 2 seasons, respectively to 2.4 this year, I think he may be having his best defensive season. As far as his rotations and help defense, I've never seen him better. He's also drawing more double teams than he ever has before.

And for the record, I do think Rose has that intangible that makes players a winner, I think that's he why he won in college and why he played so well vs Boston in 2009, but I don't see him as the player Howard is. Nothing against Rose, but Howard is that good right now. Only Lebron is better at the moment, IMO.
Well said. I agree with most of what you said cept. I think you are big men oriented and my screen name goes the other way. DH is dominant and one of only four superstars in my book. Sometimes I have Wade as better than anybody but most times its Lebron as the best player to me. If DH had played with more zest in the beginning of the year I too, would have him as MVP. The only criticism I have of him as a player is his will power, while keeping his head straight, in critical games.

While Rose exploits to the rim look like reckless abandon, he still plays with his head up. He is exceptional at his age. I do think he was into every game and his will power or insistence to get to the basket was in far more games than DH tho. That gave D Rose the space he needed to get in there. DH will get his day but I don't feel like D Rose is stealing anything from DH. Certainly, DH will get his MVP but for now he should have taken care of shop earlier and pressed in the few big games they had this month.

[magnax1]

No stats were in my statement. He stepped his game up with the new guys. No way has Dwight regularly played better than Rose - Nov and Dec. DH's team wasn't playing as good as he did in Feb/Mar. And when the games counted he played worse and sometimes he flat out disappeared.


Leadership. Playing hard and putting pressure on teams all the time. Chicago won more because Rose played every quarter of every game. Howard didn't. Howard has no comp at his position but let it be a critical game and then he isn't as valueable. In March he feasted on the weak and wasn't as impactful when the games counted most.
Basically everything you said in this post about Dwight just isn't true. He didn'tstep his game up after the first few months, his team did. His team sucked the first month, and got better after the trade. He has been pretty consistently beastly all season, and has regularly played better then Rose. You're basically spewing out brain dead bullshit.

[GatorKid117]

Ha, I saw Cousin's foul out DH, and DH had just disqualified himself from the previous game so he wasn't there to finish a close, should be easy game, that would have put Chicago up 8 games in the lost column. I saw a coach that didn't have enough confidence in DH to contain another seven footer to put him consistently on him. I had seen enough.

Wonderful. So in fact Cousins did not "rock" DH for 26 points which is what you said originally. Nice to see your analysis filled with fabrications is doing well. Keep at it, if you say it enough people might actually believe you.



DH in the Chicago game was ok, 20 and 10, against the great back up center Asik. DH did muster up 8 FGA but I guess Asik will do that to you.

Again, if you could show somehow that Howard did not give 100% I would be much appreciated. What does his 20/10 have anything to do with what you originally stated? Don't tell me you bullshitted again. How could you tell he did not give it his all. He imo played with a lot of passion that game even after playing 45 minutes the night before in the Magic's most emotional win of the year. [/quote]



Jason Richardson and Jameer Nelson won that game against the Heat. Lebron and Wade looked better to me than DH did despite Miami not having a real center. It would have been nice to see DH take the humiliation Lebron laid on them in the previous game in front of DH's three bosses in Orlando to heart. But they did get the win.

Chazzy's post summed this up quite nicely.

[Ikill]

Dwight and Dirk are more deserving but Dwight's team is not good enough and Dirk are not good enough that is why Rose is the obvious choice.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Well said. I agree with most of what you said cept. I think you are big men oriented and my screen name goes the other way. DH is dominant and one of only four superstars in my book. Sometimes I have Wade as better than anybody but most times its Lebron as the best player to me. If DH had played with more zest in the beginning of the year I too, would have him as MVP. The only criticism I have of him as a player is his will power, while keeping his head straight, in critical games.

While Rose exploits to the rim look like reckless abandon, he still plays with his head up. He is exceptional at his age. I do think he was into every game and his will power or insistence to get to the basket was in far more games than DH tho. That gave D Rose the space he needed to get in there. DH will get his day but I don't feel like D Rose is stealing anything from DH. Certainly, DH will get his MVP but for now he should have taken care of shop earlier and pressed in the few big games they had this month.

Well, part of it is definitely that we value different things in players. I dofind it valuable to have a player who can penetrate, create his shot, get to the rim and find his teammates, but I think there are a lot more players who can do that in the league and there have been for years than there have been players who can score an efficient 20+ ppg in the post, anchor your defense and dominate the boards. Particularly a physical presence.

I have to rank Lebron as the best player in the league because he does it all. He's among the best scorers(arguably the best), obviously draws a ton of defensive attention, the best passer out of any high scorer, one of the best rebounding perimeter players and he's stepped up his defense the last few years and become worthy of all-defensive selections(definitely deserves one this year).

As far as the mental aspects of the game, well, when Dwight picked up that 16th technical, I thought it was inexcusable, and I understand the reaction, but since he got that 15th, officials were more hesitant to give him that 16th one and he made it too easy for them, they had to give him that 16th technical, and his team relies on him too much, so, he deserves criticism for that.

But I've never had a problem with Dwight smiling or his demeanor, it's always been a non-issue to me personally, but as even his critics have pointed out, you've seen a lot less of that since he called out the team.

I've also been really impressed at Dwight cutting down on his fouls and being able to play more minutes. His team needs it more than ever since they don't have a backup center as well as Dwight having less consistent teammates than he did in '08, '09 or '10. That's why I thought that not having a backup center would be a blessing in disguise for Dwight's game and I believe that it's turned out that way, and it's one of the 2 areas where I thought he had to improve the most. The other area is handling double teams and I'd still like to see him get a lot better at that. In a perfect world, I'd like him to get around 70% from the line, but he's so efficient as a scorer anyway and we've seen big men win as worse free throw shooters(Shaq, Wilt) and even Duncan has been in the 60-63% range several seasons while Dwight has been a 59-60% FT shooter throughout his career so I think you just kind of live with that.

[LakerFan1086]

1. Rose
2. Kobe
3. Dwight
4a. Lebron
4b. Wade
5. Dirk

I think it's changing with each game too. Rose in my opinion just watching him play this season is deserving of the MVP mostly because I think everyone expected them to be 3-4 in the east and they have a firm grasp on the number 1 spot in the east.

Kobe and the lakers have turned it up post all-star break and he's having a typical kobe season. If they get 58-60 wins it's going to be hard to give a good enough reasons to why he shouldn't get it.

Dwight is third just because it's him and three point shooters. He's the only decent defensive player on his own team and the fact that his team is somewhat relevant in the east is a testament to the guy.

The main reason I can't give it to LeBron this year is mainly because he's having the same season that he was having last year except his numbers a little lower, his team has a much worse record then last year when his team was "awful", hasn't come through for his team in the clutch and him and dwayne wade are splitting votes as to who the MVP is on that team. Same reasons for wade even though his activity level since the break has been off the charts.

Dirk has never been an MVP player for me. I've always thought he'd be a GREAT second option. I would never really want him leading my team just because I always feel like the bigger the stage, the more likely he is to fold (Miami finals, knocked out in round 1, etc.) The mavs have had a great season but I think everyone above him is more deserving.

Like I said earlier, It's changing every game and it's as up in the air as the MVP race has ever been. Great for the league.

[creepingdeath]

1. Rose
2. Kobe
3. Dwight
4a. Lebron
4b. Wade
5. Dirk

I think it's changing with each game too. Rose in my opinion just watching him play this season is deserving of the MVP mostly because I think everyone expected them to be 3-4 in the east and they have a firm grasp on the number 1 spot in the east.

Kobe and the lakers have turned it up post all-star break and he's having a typical kobe season. If they get 58-60 wins it's going to be hard to give a good enough reasons to why he shouldn't get it.

Dwight is third just because it's him and three point shooters. He's the only decent defensive player on his own team and the fact that his team is somewhat relevant in the east is a testament to the guy.

The main reason I can't give it to LeBron this year is mainly because he's having the same season that he was having last year except his numbers a little lower, his team has a much worse record then last year when his team was "awful", hasn't come through for his team in the clutch and him and dwayne wade are splitting votes as to who the MVP is on that team. Same reasons for wade even though his activity level since the break has been off the charts.

Dirk has never been an MVP player for me. I've always thought he'd be a GREAT second option. I would never really want him leading my team just because I always feel like the bigger the stage, the more likely he is to fold (Miami finals, knocked out in round 1, etc.) The mavs have had a great season but I think everyone above him is more deserving.

Like I said earlier, It's changing every game and it's as up in the air as the MVP race has ever been. Great for the league.
How can you justify Kobe being ahead of Dirk? His numbers aren't better and they are only 1 game in front of the Mavs despite the various injuries Dallas suffered.

[Rose]

How can you justify Kobe being ahead of Dirk? His numbers aren't better and they are only 1 game in front of the Mavs despite the various injuries Dallas suffered.
u:mad: >?

U b lyk

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_liok5dVxC41qco42po1_250.gif

[creepingdeath]

u:mad: >?

U b lyk

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_liok5dVxC41qco42po1_250.gif
http://i.imgur.com/YcphY.gif

[Rose]

http://i.imgur.com/YcphY.gif
http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lifglaOG0Y1qi7n4xo1_250.jpg

Snivy cannot be beaten.:lol

[SebasMiamiFan]

The sad thing is that we could have had him but in the lottery we got the 2nd pick and drafted Beasely instead. :facepalm

[creepingdeath]

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lifglaOG0Y1qi7n4xo1_250.jpg

Snivy cannot be beaten.:lol
Yes, he can. :lol

http://i.imgur.com/6ZM4e.jpg

[LakerFan1086]

How can you justify Kobe being ahead of Dirk? His numbers aren't better and they are only 1 game in front of the Mavs despite the various injuries Dallas suffered.

Bulls have dealt with injuries. So have the Lakers. So have the Celtics. So have the Spurs. It's a part of the game that everyone has to deal with.

The stats are very close. Kobe scores more, has more assists and has more steals while Dirk shoots a better percentage (as a 7-footer should) and has about 1 more rebound a game than Kobe.

The mavs were also about 3-4 games up on the Lakers at the all star break and now they're 1.5 games behind on them. When we're talking about MVP it matters where your team finishes.

It's nothing against Dirk I think he's a great player but he's had great teams for about 8 straight seasons now and has done nothing with it. That track record doesn't shout MVP for me.

[Pointguard]

Basically everything you said in this post about Dwight just isn't true. He didn'tstep his game up after the first few months, his team did. His team sucked the first month, and got better after the trade. He has been pretty consistently beastly all season, and has regularly played better then Rose. You're basically spewing out brain dead bullshit.

Hey, I'll help you out because you are lazy, weak and brain dead.
...........................FG FT Off Reb Reb Blocks..... PPG
In October............63 .46..... 0.5 8.50..... 2.0..... 21
In November.........59 .55..... 3.1 12.5..... 2.5..... 21.9
In December.........52 .61..... 4.3 14.2..... 2.5..... 20.3
In January............61 .62..... 4.6 14.7..... 1.8..... 24.9
In February...........67 .61..... 4.5 14.8..... 2.0..... 26.6
In March ..............63 .58 ..... 4.4 16.0..... 3.7..... 22.5

Not what was the nonsense you were saying? If DH played the first two months like he did the later months he wins the MVP and his team would probably be in the thick of the race. Why do you think the many threads about Rose were there all season. Dirk was ahead of Howard until recently.

[magnax1]

Hey, I'll help you out because you are lazy, weak and brain dead.
...........................FG FT Off Reb Reb Blocks..... PPG
In October............63 .46..... 0.5 8.50..... 2.0..... 21
In November.........59 .55..... 3.1 12.5..... 2.5..... 21.9
In December.........52 .61..... 4.3 14.2..... 2.5..... 20.3
In January............61 .62..... 4.6 14.7..... 1.8..... 24.9
In February...........67 .61..... 4.5 14.8..... 2.0..... 26.6
In March ..............63 .58 ..... 4.4 16.0..... 3.7..... 22.5

Not what was the nonsense you were saying? If DH played the first two months like he did the later months he wins the MVP and his team would probably be in the thick of the race. Why do you think the many threads about Rose were there all season. Dirk was ahead of Howard until recently.
I already explained that Dwight's stats were lower in the beginning of the season because his team couldn't throw a decent entry pass, and he played less minutes. Beyond that the 22-12.5 with DPOTY level D in November isn't worse then Rose's play, that's for sure.

[Rose]

I already explained that Dwight's stats were lower in the beginning of the season because his team couldn't throw a decent entry pass, and he played less minutes. Beyond that the 22-12.5 with DPOTY level D in November isn't worse then Rose's play, that's for sure.
:lol

Dwight matured hella fast in the middle of the season, like no one I've seen, at least not years. I've seen Melo go from looking like a career year about 3 times, and then fading back.

[magnax1]

:lol

Dwight matured hella fast in the middle of the season, like no one I've seen, at least not years. I've seen Melo go from looking like a career year about 3 times, and then fading back.
It's really true that his team just didn't pass him the ball. His team was actually more centered around him in the beggining of the season because everybody was basically playing like shit, but his stats went up once he could pick and roll again with Hedo, and they gained a bit of chemistry. His rebounding was worse in the beginning of the year for certain for whatever reason though.
His stats didn't reflect the growth until the team around him allowed for it.

[Rose]

It's really true that his team just didn't pass him the ball. His team was actually more centered around him in the beggining of the season because everybody was basically playing like shit, but his stats went up once he could pick and roll again with Hedo, and they gained a bit of chemistry. His rebounding was worse in the beginning of the year for certain for whatever reason though.
I think it was a few less minutes and SVG was trying the Dwight-Polish Hammer lineup.

[magnax1]

I think it was a few less minutes and SVG was trying the Dwight-Polish Hammer lineup.
That's part of it, but the team was just the most horrific display of NBA passing I'd ever seen before the trade. Despite how useless Turkeyglue is overall, he made a big difference the ability to move the ball around for the magic.

[Rose]

That's part of it, but the team was just the most horrific display of NBA passing I'd ever seen before the trade. Despite how useless Turkeyglue is overall, he made a big difference the ability to move the ball around for the magic.
He's a good point forward, and shooter. But he can't really rebound anymore, or play defense. or really anything but occasionally create his own shot, shoot sometimes, and pass, agreed?

[magnax1]

He's a good point forward, and shooter. But he can't really rebound anymore, or play defense. or really anything but occasionally create his own shot, shoot sometimes, and pass, agreed?
Agreed. He's even more useless in other systems, but he does fit in Orlando, despite how bad he's played. He's not as bad as in Toronto last year.

[Clocian-IGN]

from a heat writer :oldlol:

http://twitter.com/WallaceHeatNBA/status/51851763199909888

[ReturnofJPR]

Duh...Winning!

[Rose]

Agreed. He's even more useless in other systems, but he does fit in Orlando, despite how bad he's played. He's not as bad as in Toronto last year.
The Orlando system and MAYBE like the Knicks he would fit in. But that's it really.

[magnax1]

The Orlando system and MAYBE like the Knicks he would fit in. But that's it really.
Agreed, though I don't know about the Knicks. The only reason he fits in Orlando is that nobody can create in Orlando, where NY has 3 guys who can create, 2 of them just refuse to pass or play defense no matter what. Plus I think Amare is butthurt about being the 2nd best player.

[Rose]

Agreed, though I don't know about the Knicks. The only reason he fits in Orlando is that nobody can create in Orlando, where NY has 3 guys who can create, 2 of them just refuse to pass or play defense no matter what. Plus I think Amare is butthurt about being the 2nd best player.
And the reason they refuse to pass is why I think he'd potentially fit in.

But seriously there's no other team I can think of that has a system he could fit in. I was thinking Portland, but then realized that they're already a good team with good wings that pass pretty well, and their new strategy is feed LA which could help but he still doesn't fit.

Clippers? I don't watch enough games? the Triangle? ...maybe I could see him as a Laker maybe. Aside from that really he's pretty much only effective as a Magic player. I honestly do think that there's at least a 76% chance he doesn't fit in with another team. which is really sad.:lol

And I do think Amare is butthurt as well. Which is pretty funny.:lol

[magnax1]

And the reason they refuse to pass is why I think he'd potentially fit in.

But seriously there's no other team I can think of that has a system he could fit in. I was thinking Portland, but then realized that they're already a good team with good wings that pass pretty well, and their new strategy is feed LA which could help but he still doesn't fit.

Clippers? I don't watch enough games? the Triangle? ...maybe I could see him as a Laker maybe. Aside from that really he's pretty much only effective as a Magic player. I honestly do think that there's at least a 76% chance he doesn't fit in with another team. which is really sad.:lol

And I do think Amare is butthurt as well. Which is pretty funny.:lol
I don't think Triangle works because he's just Peja Stojakevic if all he does is spot up and throw entry passes. Orlando is really the only team I can think of.

[Pointguard]

Wonderful. So in fact Cousins did not "rock" DH for 26 points which is what you said originally. Nice to see your analysis filled with fabrications is doing well. Keep at it, if you say it enough people might actually believe you.
LOL, please show me a fabrication? What I said was far more incriminating for your boy. You don't get it? I didn't let him off the hook. DH, came off a suspended game, got into foul trouble guarding Cousins. Was switched off of him because of his inability to handle him. You think Dalembert was the harder cover? Then caught on an Iso, Cousins licked his lips and the DQ ensued. In three important games he's not in the game being a difference maker. Orlando goes from a game and a half within Chicago's reach to 7 games in the lost column.



Again, if you could show somehow that Howard did not give 100% I would be much appreciated. What does his 20/10 have anything to do with what you originally stated? Don't tell me you bullshitted again. How could you tell he did not give it his all. He imo played with a lot of passion that game even after playing 45 minutes the night before in the Magic's most emotional win of the year.

LOL, 20 and 10 primarily against a second string center and a hobbled one is good for you? Taking only 8 FGA is good enough? That's putting his heart and guts into it for you? The night before he played against a guy that had like 2 games under his belt for the whole year and had 14 points and an impressive 18 boards but he only took 10 shots. If he's the leader of his team he can't play timid in big games. He's the example. Why play conservative in big games? Rose was at the rim more than he was. And D Rose's team won both games. So if you are saying DH played all out, he simply isn't on a level with D Rose who can keep his head, lead by example, get to the rim, be more aggressive, and put more pressure on the defense. Which one is it? You can't have it both ways.

Check.

[Rose]

I don't think Triangle works because he's just Peja Stojakevic if all he does is spot up and throw entry passes. Orlando is really the only team I can think of.
Yeah true. I was thinking as more of a 6th man type role anyways. It's amazing the effect Dwight/one system can have on a guy. But it's just weird how aside from J-rich, no one's really playing well on the Magic granted some of them have their reasons

Jameer's shot is re-broken post shoulder surgery
Arenas still isn't healthy, but occasionally shows signs of a good-ish player
Anderson doesn't get the minutes, but when he does, he impresses me.

The rest I think are completely underachieving in particular Hedo, and Bass.

[Pointguard]

I already explained that Dwight's stats were lower in the beginning of the season because his team couldn't throw a decent entry pass, and he played less minutes. Beyond that the 22-12.5 with DPOTY level D in November isn't worse then Rose's play, that's for sure.
Like I said nobody was mentioning Howard in the beginning. There are tons of threads here in January and early Feb about Rose being in the lead with Dirk and Lebron as the only other mentions. And...


Basically everything you said in this post about Dwight just isn't true. He didn'tstep his game up after the first few months, his team did. His team sucked the first month, and got better after the trade. He has been pretty consistently beastly all season, and has regularly played better then Rose. You're basically spewing out brain dead bullshit.

[indiefan23]

I'm not sure how long this thread has been going for but check my article on this from about a month ago on this.

http://www.fullcourtpest.com/2011/02/rosey-picture-derick-rose-for-mvp-is.html

I'm sure a few haters from this thread are here from the other one getting owned in the exact same way. ;0

[GatorKid117]

LOL, please show me a fabrication? What I said was far more incriminating for your boy. You don't get it? I didn't let him off the hook. DH, came off a suspended game, got into foul trouble guarding Cousins. Was switched off of him because of his inability to handle him. You think Dalembert was the harder cover? Then caught on an Iso, Cousins licked his lips and the DQ ensued. In three important games he's not in the game being a difference maker. Orlando goes from a game and a half within Chicago's reach to 7 games in the lost column.

You stated Cousins rocked DH for 26 points when in fact Cousins did not score on him at all. How do you not see the fabrication? What you said was a complete lie. Your correct, he drew 2 fouls on him and fouled out, so what, it happens. Centers do foul out, even DPOY caliber ones. Duncan, Wallace, Robinson etc have all fouled out of games. It's one regular season game in which they won and yet you harp on it as a huge criticism against his MVP chances. Why is this so incriminating again?

DH was never switched off of him, he was never on him to begin with until 5 minutes left in the game. That was SVG's game plan, and you criticize DH for it? You don't think your being way too critical? SVG would much rather have Dwight protecting the paint instead of manning "the harder cover". That is his philosophy and has nothing to do with a lack of confidence in Dwight.



LOL, 20 and 10 primarily against a second string center and a hobbled one is good for you? Taking only 8 FGA is good enough? That's putting his heart and guts into it for you? The night before he played against a guy that had like 2 games under his belt for the whole year and had 14 points and an impressive 18 boards but he only took 10 shots. If he's the leader of his team he can't play timid in big games. He's the example. Why play conservative in big games? Rose was at the rim more than he was. And D Rose's team won both games. So if you are saying DH played all out, he simply isn't on a level with D Rose who can keep his head, lead by example, get to the rim, be more aggressive, and put more pressure on the defense. Which one is it? You can't have it both ways.

Check.[/QUOTE]

Why are you bringing Rose and the Bulls into this conversation? I am not arguing his candidacy. He is the MVP. Try to keep it on subject if your able to do that.

What were arguing is your baseless criticisms of Dwight Howard, nothing more nothing less. So what I gathered from your insight is that your "proof" of Dwight not giving it his all came in the form of stats. Man, how ironic from a Rose fan don't you think? For someone who constantly praises the intangibles, leadership and little things that Rose does you have a complete lack of regard of what Dwight brings. He didn't have the stats in that game so he must not have gave 100%. Excuse me for my ignorance, but where exactly did you gather the correlation to come up with such a silly premise? FGA=playing your heart out is what your essentially saying? Because that is what you just inferred.

If what you meant by your statement is that Dwight did not dominate the Bulls than yes, I agree with you. If you want to criticize him for not doing that than alright, although I would find that laughable. He played a good but not great game but his effort was never in question. Would it have been nice if he got more FGA? Ya but that is a regular occurrence for him and one of my biggest gripes about how the Magic play. It has nothing to do with effort though. But again, I fail to see any logic behind your criticism of Dwight in that game. The Bulls played much better than the Magic, they deserved the win.
.
Oh, and I have to laugh at the fact that you said Rose got to the rim more than Dwight. You can't be serious with that can you? Please say your joking for any remaining credibility you may have. That is on the lines of your Dirk will score 20ppg next year, the Bulls have no bench and you taking Odom over Dirk :roll:

[Pointguard]

You stated Cousins rocked DH for 26 points when in fact Cousins did not score on him at all. How do you not see the fabrication?
Cousins didn't foul Howard out? And he got another foul on DH earlier. You lie so much you confuse yourself?


What you said was a complete lie. Your correct, he drew 2 fouls on him and fouled out, so what, it happens. Centers do foul out, even DPOY caliber ones. Duncan, Wallace, Robinson etc have all fouled out of games. It's one regular season game in which they won and yet you harp on it as a huge criticism against his MVP chances. Why is this so incriminating again?
LOL, that DH only plays near equal competition sometimes once or twice a month. The coach can't put DH on a rookie who is obviously too big for every other player and nearly singlehandly leading a comeback? And yes he did score with Howard on him twice, sobeit thru the foul line. And DH still fouls out guarding Dalembert and doing help defense? That's foul.



DH was never switched off of him, he was never on him to begin with until 5 minutes left in the game. That was SVG's game plan, and you criticize DH for it? You don't think your being way too critical? SVG would much rather have Dwight protecting the paint instead of manning "the harder cover". That is his philosophy and has nothing to do with a lack of confidence in Dwight.
Check.
The guy is a rookie and taking over the game. Play within yourself. That's not asking much. He isn't asked to guard a quality player but once or twice a month, and then he ends up fouling out anyway?


Why are you bringing Rose and the Bulls into this conversation? I am not arguing his candidacy. He is the MVP. Try to keep it on subject if your able to do that.

What were arguing is your baseless criticisms of Dwight Howard, nothing more nothing less. So what I gathered from your insight is that your "proof" of Dwight not giving it his all came in the form of stats. Man, how ironic from a Rose fan don't you think? For someone who constantly praises the intangibles, leadership and little things that Rose does you have a complete lack of regard of what Dwight brings. He didn't have the stats in that game so he must not have gave 100%. Excuse me for my ignorance, but where exactly did you gather the correlation to come up with such a silly premise? FGA=playing your heart out is what your essentially saying? Because that is what you just inferred.

If you saw him play you saw that he was conservative and not going all out. He had a second stringer on him and plain as day didn't push the issue. And that would be reflected in him not going at Asik. He didn't have Hakeem on him. He's the leader of his team. Go at him. The game means something. Rose understood that.


If what you meant by your statement is that Dwight did not dominate the Bulls than yes, I agree with you. If you want to criticize him for not doing that than alright, although I would find that laughable. He played a good but not great game but his effort was never in question. Would it have been nice if he got more FGA? Ya but that is a regular occurrence for him and one of my biggest gripes about how the Magic play. It has nothing to do with effort though. But again, I fail to see any logic behind your criticism of Dwight in that game. The Bulls played much better than the Magic, they deserved the win.
He played with effort but he didn't assert his will power. If Rose sees a big man out on him he taking it to the whole - no questions asked. Because he's more assertive, more aggressive, sets the tone for his team, and that's the way leaders play big games. In all of the big games in March, DH didn't play like he played every other game.


Oh, and I have to laugh at the fact that you said Rose got to the rim more than Dwight. You can't be serious with that can you? Please say your joking for any remaining credibility you may have. That is on the lines of your Dirk will score 20ppg next year, the Bulls have no bench and you taking Odom over Dirk :roll:
Haha, Rose made 5 baskets at the rim http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3m34Armqw4 and this clip only shows the makes. Rose is always pushing the issue, so you know he missed at least three and Howard blocked one. Rose attacks. And, to me, Howard was passive but you say he was playing all out on a second stringer. Its much more work for Dirk to penetrate from 20 ft to continuosly get at the rim than it is for DH to push around second stringers.

LOL @ your mischaracterizing my positions but hey that's ish. Bulls bench was exhausted thru injuries so it wasn't a bench and I said it wasn't a versatile bench that provided scoring - when all are healthy it was a good bench. Provide context and keep it right. Ha, didn't Dirk's game come down two points from last year??? They can't rebuild around him anymore. So he shouldn't be featured anymore. Kobe's still a better player and they didn't want to feature him this year. Duncan who plays closer to the basket, fell off more than my prediction for Dirk the year after he fell of like two points. Dirk can't play solid defense or get rebounds - how many powerforwards are like that?

[Pointguard]

You stated Cousins rocked DH for 26 points when in fact Cousins did not score on him at all. How do you not see the fabrication?
Cousins didn't foul Howard out? And he got another foul on DH earlier. You lie so much you confuse yourself?


What you said was a complete lie. Your correct, he drew 2 fouls on him and fouled out, so what, it happens. Centers do foul out, even DPOY caliber ones. Duncan, Wallace, Robinson etc have all fouled out of games. It's one regular season game in which they won and yet you harp on it as a huge criticism against his MVP chances. Why is this so incriminating again?
LOL, that DH only plays near equal competition sometimes once or twice a month. The coach can't put DH on a rookie who is obviously too big for every other player and nearly singlehandly leading a comeback? And yes he did score with Howard on him twice, sobeit thru the foul line. And DH still fouls out guarding Dalembert and doing help defense? That's foul.



DH was never switched off of him, he was never on him to begin with until 5 minutes left in the game. That was SVG's game plan, and you criticize DH for it? You don't think your being way too critical? SVG would much rather have Dwight protecting the paint instead of manning "the harder cover". That is his philosophy and has nothing to do with a lack of confidence in Dwight.
Check.
The guy is a rookie and taking over the game. Play within yourself. That's not asking much. He isn't asked to guard a quality player but once or twice a month, and then he ends up fouling out anyway?


Why are you bringing Rose and the Bulls into this conversation? I am not arguing his candidacy. He is the MVP. Try to keep it on subject if your able to do that.

What were arguing is your baseless criticisms of Dwight Howard, nothing more nothing less. So what I gathered from your insight is that your "proof" of Dwight not giving it his all came in the form of stats. Man, how ironic from a Rose fan don't you think? For someone who constantly praises the intangibles, leadership and little things that Rose does you have a complete lack of regard of what Dwight brings. He didn't have the stats in that game so he must not have gave 100%. Excuse me for my ignorance, but where exactly did you gather the correlation to come up with such a silly premise? FGA=playing your heart out is what your essentially saying? Because that is what you just inferred.

If you saw him play you saw that he was conservative and not going all out. He had a second stringer on him and plain as day didn't push the issue. And that would be reflected in him not going at Asik. He didn't have Hakeem on him. He's the leader of his team. Go at him. The game means something. Rose understood that.


If what you meant by your statement is that Dwight did not dominate the Bulls than yes, I agree with you. If you want to criticize him for not doing that than alright, although I would find that laughable. He played a good but not great game but his effort was never in question. Would it have been nice if he got more FGA? Ya but that is a regular occurrence for him and one of my biggest gripes about how the Magic play. It has nothing to do with effort though. But again, I fail to see any logic behind your criticism of Dwight in that game. The Bulls played much better than the Magic, they deserved the win.
He played with effort but he didn't assert his will power. If Rose sees a big man out on him he taking it to the whole - no questions asked. Because he's more assertive, more aggressive, sets the tone for his team, and that's the way leaders play big games. In all of the big games in March, DH didn't play like he played every other game.


Oh, and I have to laugh at the fact that you said Rose got to the rim more than Dwight. You can't be serious with that can you? Please say your joking for any remaining credibility you may have. That is on the lines of your Dirk will score 20ppg next year, the Bulls have no bench and you taking Odom over Dirk :roll:
Haha, Rose made 5 baskets at the rim http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3m34Armqw4 and this clip only shows the makes. Rose is always pushing the issue, so you know he missed at least three and Howard blocked one. Rose attacks. And, to me, Howard was passive but you say he was playing all out on a second stringer. Its much more work for Dirk to penetrate from 20 ft to continuosly get at the rim than it is for DH to push around second stringers.

LOL @ your mischaracterizing my positions but hey that's ish. Bulls bench was exhausted thru injuries so it wasn't a bench and I said it wasn't a versatile bench that provided scoring - when all are healthy it was a good bench. Provide context and keep it right. Ha, didn't Dirk's game come down two points from last year??? They can't rebuild around him anymore. So he shouldn't be featured anymore. Kobe's still a better player and they didn't want to feature him this year. Duncan who plays closer to the basket, fell off more than my prediction for Dirk the year after he fell of like two points. Dirk can't play solid defense or get rebounds - how many powerforwards are like that?

[Pointguard]

You stated Cousins rocked DH for 26 points when in fact Cousins did not score on him at all. How do you not see the fabrication?
Cousins didn't foul Howard out? And he got another foul on DH earlier. You lie so much you confuse yourself?


What you said was a complete lie. Your correct, he drew 2 fouls on him and fouled out, so what, it happens. Centers do foul out, even DPOY caliber ones. Duncan, Wallace, Robinson etc have all fouled out of games. It's one regular season game in which they won and yet you harp on it as a huge criticism against his MVP chances. Why is this so incriminating again?
LOL, that DH only plays near equal competition sometimes once or twice a month. The coach can't put DH on a rookie who is obviously too big for every other player and nearly singlehandly leading a comeback? And yes he did score with Howard on him twice, sobeit thru the foul line. And DH still fouls out guarding Dalembert and doing help defense? That's foul.



DH was never switched off of him, he was never on him to begin with until 5 minutes left in the game. That was SVG's game plan, and you criticize DH for it? You don't think your being way too critical? SVG would much rather have Dwight protecting the paint instead of manning "the harder cover". That is his philosophy and has nothing to do with a lack of confidence in Dwight.
Check.
The guy is a rookie and taking over the game. Play within yourself. That's not asking much. He isn't asked to guard a quality player but once or twice a month, and then he ends up fouling out anyway?


Why are you bringing Rose and the Bulls into this conversation? I am not arguing his candidacy. He is the MVP. Try to keep it on subject if your able to do that.

What were arguing is your baseless criticisms of Dwight Howard, nothing more nothing less. So what I gathered from your insight is that your "proof" of Dwight not giving it his all came in the form of stats. Man, how ironic from a Rose fan don't you think? For someone who constantly praises the intangibles, leadership and little things that Rose does you have a complete lack of regard of what Dwight brings. He didn't have the stats in that game so he must not have gave 100%. Excuse me for my ignorance, but where exactly did you gather the correlation to come up with such a silly premise? FGA=playing your heart out is what your essentially saying? Because that is what you just inferred.

If you saw him play you saw that he was conservative and not going all out. He had a second stringer on him and plain as day didn't push the issue. And that would be reflected in him not going at Asik. He didn't have Hakeem on him. He's the leader of his team. Go at him. The game means something. Rose understood that.


If what you meant by your statement is that Dwight did not dominate the Bulls than yes, I agree with you. If you want to criticize him for not doing that than alright, although I would find that laughable. He played a good but not great game but his effort was never in question. Would it have been nice if he got more FGA? Ya but that is a regular occurrence for him and one of my biggest gripes about how the Magic play. It has nothing to do with effort though. But again, I fail to see any logic behind your criticism of Dwight in that game. The Bulls played much better than the Magic, they deserved the win.
He played with effort but he didn't assert his will power. If Rose sees a big man out on him he taking it to the whole - no questions asked. Because he's more assertive, more aggressive, sets the tone for his team, and that's the way leaders play big games. In all of the big games in March, DH didn't play like he played every other game.


Oh, and I have to laugh at the fact that you said Rose got to the rim more than Dwight. You can't be serious with that can you? Please say your joking for any remaining credibility you may have. That is on the lines of your Dirk will score 20ppg next year, the Bulls have no bench and you taking Odom over Dirk :roll:
Haha, Rose made 5 baskets at the rim http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3m34Armqw4 and this clip only shows the makes. Rose is always pushing the issue, so you know he missed at least three and Howard blocked one. Rose attacks. And, to me, Howard was passive but you say he was playing all out on a second stringer. Its much more work for Dirk to penetrate from 20 ft to continuosly get at the rim than it is for DH to push around second stringers.

LOL @ your mischaracterizing my positions but hey that's ish. Bulls bench was exhausted thru injuries so it wasn't a bench and I said it wasn't a versatile bench that provided scoring - when all are healthy it was a good bench. Provide context and keep it right. Ha, didn't Dirk's game come down two points from last year??? They can't rebuild around him anymore. So he shouldn't be featured anymore. Kobe's still a better player and they didn't want to feature him this year. Duncan who plays closer to the basket, fell off more than my prediction for Dirk the year after he fell of like two points. Dirk can't play solid defense or get rebounds - how many powerforwards are like that?

[KDthunderup]

It has been a pretty poor year for MVP candidates. Last year Lebron was averaging 29.7 ppg 50.3% 8.6 app 7.3 rpp 1.6 spp and 1 block whilst the MVP this year (assuming its Rose) is averaging 24.9 ppg 43.9% 7.9 app 4.2 rpp and 1 steal.

[creepingdeath]

LOL @ your mischaracterizing my positions but hey that's ish. Bulls bench was exhausted thru injuries so it wasn't a bench and I said it wasn't a versatile bench that provided scoring - when all are healthy it was a good bench. Provide context and keep it right. Ha, didn't Dirk's game come down two points from last year??? They can't rebuild around him anymore. So he shouldn't be featured anymore. Kobe's still a better player and they didn't want to feature him this year. Duncan who plays closer to the basket, fell off more than my prediction for Dirk the year after he fell of like two points. Dirk can't play solid defense or get rebounds - how many powerforwards are like that?
If you'd actually watch the games, you'd see that Dirk CAN play solid defense (+/- numbers reflect that). Can't get rebounds? He averages 11 rebounds in the postseason and more importantly, before his knee issues, Dirk averaged almost 9 this season - something he has done the last 10 games, too. His knees have gotten better again and he's getting into playoff shape. :bowdown:
But thanks for disqualifying yourself in this discussion - Dirk being down two points in comparison to last year? Actually, it's 1.7points, but with FAR superior percentages and in less minutes. His ppg per 36 is BETTER than last year, his best since 05/06, to be exact. :pimp:

[Pointguard]

If you'd actually watch the games, you'd see that Dirk CAN play solid defense (+/- numbers reflect that). Can't get rebounds? He averages 11 rebounds in the postseason and more importantly, before his knee issues, Dirk averaged almost 9 this season - something he has done the last 10 games, too. His knees have gotten better again and he's getting into playoff shape. :bowdown:
We are talking now. Last year Dirk averaged 7.7 this year its possible he can move up to seven boards this year. He's not matching his height just yet. But his point guard has averaged over 7 boards in six or seven years. In fact Kidd's career average is only .2 rebounds away from Dirk's current average. Kidd's first 15 years he averaged more rebounds than than Dirk is rebounding now. That's mind boggling! A distinction that I'm sure only he has, as a PF with his his PG.



But thanks for disqualifying yourself in this discussion - Dirk being down two points in comparison to last year? Actually, it's 1.7points, but with FAR superior percentages and in less minutes. His ppg per 36 is BETTER than last year, his best since 05/06, to be exact. :pimp:
He's had a great year, super efficient, but the signs are there. It won't get better and the team will likely go in a different direction next year. The teams are getting better. Dirk doesn't have the speed or strength or athletism of most power forwards and its not getting better.. He's had a great career, tho. He has great know how in scoring til this day. But things change. No shame on him at all.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

His Shot Selection isn't the biggest issue, he's just adapting to a new play style. That;s all

[O BaByShaQ]

stats don't matter.:D

most def... he is hands down the most valuable player in the NBA this season.

[O BaByShaQ]

If you'd actually watch the games, you'd see that Dirk CAN play solid defense (+/- numbers reflect that). Can't get rebounds? He averages 11 rebounds in the postseason and more importantly, before his knee issues, Dirk averaged almost 9 this season - something he has done the last 10 games, too. His knees have gotten better again and he's getting into playoff shape. :bowdown:
But thanks for disqualifying yourself in this discussion - Dirk being down two points in comparison to last year? Actually, it's 1.7points, but with FAR superior percentages and in less minutes. His ppg per 36 is BETTER than last year, his best since 05/06, to be exact. :pimp:

every post u make is a dick riding dirk post :wtf:

[pauk]

watching the history of ALL MVP winners the trophy always went to the best player on one of the best teams....

SPURS have best record but nobody really stands out as mvp...
so we scratch that one...

CELTICS have one of the best records but nobody really stands out as mvp... so we scratch that one...

BULLS have best record in east and Rose is their MVP...

LAKERS have one of the best best records and Kobe is their MVP, but compared to Rose Kobe has more help around him... and u might argue rose played a bit better

MAVS have one of the best records and Dirk is their MVP... i think Dirk will be the runner-up....

HEAT have one of the best records and Lebron is their MVP... but Wade is in the MVP contention to and Lebron has Bosh aswell.... so he is not as super strong runaway MVP for his team as Rose is for his team.... it wouldnt even matter if he averaged a 30 point triple double... "he still has wade & bosh"...

that and a combination of massive recognition and hype around rose this season

ITS THAT SIMPLE............ ROSE WILL GET THE MVP TROPHY.........

[DRose1899]

watching the history of ALL MVP winners the trophy always went to the best player on one of the best teams....

SPURS have best record but nobody really stands out as mvp...
so we scratch that one...

CELTICS have one of the best records but nobody really stands out as mvp... so we scratch that one...

BULLS have best record in east and Rose is their MVP...

LAKERS have one of the best best records and Kobe is their MVP, but compared to Rose Kobe has more help around him... and u might argue rose played a bit better

MAVS have one of the best records and Dirk is their MVP... i think Dirk will be the runner-up....

HEAT have one of the best records and Lebron is their MVP... but Wade is in the MVP contention to and Lebron has Bosh aswell.... so he is not as super strong runaway MVP for his team as Rose is for his team.... it wouldnt even matter if he averaged a 30 point triple double... "he still has wade & bosh"...

that and a combination of massive recognition and hype around rose this season

ITS THAT SIMPLE............ ROSE WILL GET THE MVP TROPHY.........
Is that hard to understand this? :facepalm

NO ONE saying Rose will get the MVP because he's the best player, but he have the strongest case for this season MVP. Just like that.

[GatorKid117]

Cousins didn't foul Howard out? And he got another foul on DH earlier. You lie so much you confuse yourself?

I said in my original post he fouled Howard out. Can you read?
your correct, he drew 2 fouls on him and fouled out, I have not made one dishonest post this whole conversation. You on the other hand have completely changed your original stance of Cousins scoring 26 points on Howard to now saying he scored on him twice through the foul line. Backtrack much?




LOL, that DH only plays near equal competition sometimes once or twice a month. The coach can't put DH on a rookie who is obviously too big for every other player and nearly singlehandly leading a comeback? And yes he did score with Howard on him twice, sobeit thru the foul line. And DH still fouls out guarding Dalembert and doing help defense? That's foul.

We obviously have different interpretations of being scored upon is. Your arguing semantics.



The guy is a rookie and taking over the game. Play within yourself. That's not asking much. He isn't asked to guard a quality player but once or twice a month, and then he ends up fouling out anyway?


Again, so what? Why is fouling out of a regular season game such a huge deal in a game in which they won? Dwight does not need to prove himself to anyone. He is a fantastic post defender and this little hiccup of fouling out for the first time in months is completely trivial.



If you saw him play you saw that he was conservative and not going all out. He had a second stringer on him and plain as day didn't push the issue. And that would be reflected in him not going at Asik. He didn't have Hakeem on him. He's the leader of his team. Go at him. The game means something. Rose understood that.

Your reasoning remains FGA essentially. Completely laughable explanation.



He played with effort but he didn't assert his will power. If Rose sees a big man out on him he taking it to the whole - no questions asked. Because he's more assertive, more aggressive, sets the tone for his team, and that's the way leaders play big games. In all of the big games in March, DH didn't play like he played every other game.

So now you agree he played with effort? That was your original criticism of him in your post (he did not give it his all) which is synonymous with effort. Again with the backtracking. Your on a roll! Keep changing that stance!



Haha, Rose made 5 baskets at the rim http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3m34Armqw4 and this clip only shows the makes. Rose is always pushing the issue, so you know he missed at least three and Howard blocked one. Rose attacks. And, to me, Howard was passive but you say he was playing all out on a second stringer. Its much more work for Dirk to penetrate from 20 ft to continuosly get at the rim than it is for DH to push around second stringers.

Rose attempted 14 jump shots, 6 in the paint. Howard attempted 1 jump shot and 7 in the paint. This is not taking into account the FT disparity nor the amount of non-shooting fouls drawn by Howard attacking the paint which would clearly favor Howard as well. So in fact, you were wrong again.



LOL @ your mischaracterizing my positions but hey that's ish. Bulls bench was exhausted thru injuries so it wasn't a bench and I said it wasn't a versatile bench that provided scoring - when all are healthy it was a good bench. Provide context and keep it right. Ha, didn't Dirk's game come down two points from last year??? They can't rebuild around him anymore. So he shouldn't be featured anymore. Kobe's still a better player and they didn't want to feature him this year. Duncan who plays closer to the basket, fell off more than my prediction for Dirk the year after he fell of like two points. Dirk can't play solid defense or get rebounds - how many powerforwards are like that?

The greatest thing about that bench part is you did not even own up to saying it.
Who said they don't have a bench :lol

Your backtracking again. I urge you to re-read what you wrote and show me what context your referring to. The only thing remotely close is you saying the Bulls bench does not even come close to Dallas' bench in a variety of things which included versatility (that in itself is a completely laughable thing to say as well). But even that was just a comparison and not a general statement making it a moot point. Your original statement was that the Bulls have no bench without any context at all. You were just listing things which the Bulls lack. That quote was nothing more than part of a list, no context involved. You failed to mention anything about injuries or lack of offense. This is just another feeble attempt by you to backtrack.

Dirk>Odom

Respond if you want to, I won't respond back. No sense to waste time in a continued argument with someone who lacks basic reading comprehension.

And one more for laughs
Dirk is big time in Dallas but doesn''t he have the best defensive center in the game

:roll: :roll: :roll: