Mexican vs. Racist Angry white minutemen

[PistonsFan#21]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LCL2IqgjSc&feature=relmfu

what would you do in that situation? I think i would punch that guy with the sunglasses in the face. :cheers:

[Scientist]

A lot of minutemen do what the country wont... patrol our borders. But there are some that are just racist and target innoscent mexicans as illegals. What would i have done? Nothing, because he asked for it when he got into their legal protest.

[Rysio]

lol at that asian chick jumping on the bandwagon. b*tch you're not white.

[Scientist]

lol at that asian chick jumping on the bandwagon. b*tch you're not white.

Why do you have to be white to have that point of view? I want illegals to get the **** out of here too.

[PowerGlove]

Why do you have to be white to have that point of view? I want illegals to get the **** out of here too.
:facepalm

Good luck buying fruits and vegetables that dont come in a can. That's just the first thing you'll notice.

[Scientist]

:facepalm

Good luck buying fruits and vegetables that dont come in a can. That's just the first thing you'll notice.

My father owns an avocado farm in Temecula. The pay for illegal immigrants is 15-10 dollars/hour. Don't bring that excuse to me. Illegal immigrants do more harm then good.

[kentatm]

A lot of minutemen do what the country wont... patrol our borders. But there are some that are just racist and target innoscent mexicans as illegals. What would i have done? Nothing, because he asked for it when he got into their legal protest.

asking questions and filming responses means the way they were talking to him is ok? :rolleyes:

[Scientist]

If you've been to an organized protest, they seperate opposing sides. What they said to him is perfectly fine, you have to respect peoples point of views. If you go into an opposing crowd, you have to expect this.

[kentatm]

If you've been to an organized protest, they seperate opposing sides. What they said to him is perfectly fine, you have to respect peoples point of views. If you go into an opposing crowd, you have to expect this.


:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

thats bull.

people shouldnt curse you out and start calling you names just b/c you disagree with them and are asking questions about their side.

that is NO excuse for their behavior.



and yes, I HAVE been to organized protest and HAVE gone to the opposite side to talk to people.

I wasn't treated that way but like Louis CK says, its great to be white. I bet if I had a bad ass perma tan I wouldnt have been treated with near the respect by zealots such as those.

[Scientist]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

thats bull.

people shouldnt curse you out and start calling you names just b/c you disagree with them and are asking questions about their side.

that is NO excuse for their behavior.

Stop down playing his role, he wasn't simply asking questions but calling them racists. Keep facepalming but he was in the wrong.

[Stuckey]

how come a gang of mexicans dont jump these ppl every time? i'd do it

[Brujesino]

My father owns an avocado farm in Temecula. The pay for illegal immigrants is 15-10 dollars/hour. Don't bring that excuse to me. Illegal immigrants do more harm then good.
Your father employs illegal immigrants?Looks like your father is apart of the problem either way i'll go work for your father for 15 bucks a hour.

[Scientist]

No, did you read? Where did i say he employs illegal immigrants? The avocado farm is given to a management company who employs US Citizens. But my father and i did our research with neighboring farmers. There is not a significant difference in pay.

[ballup]

go back to Mexico, who would?:oldlol: Best solution to stop immigration is to make Mexico a better place. Too bad that's next to impossible

[LilBTheBasedGod]

damn based god had too many threesomes

[Hazard]

Thats what happens when a bunch of racist rednecks organize a protest. They don't even know what they're protesting. Illegals unfortunately take all the shit, borderline slavery jobs that those pricks would never work. They should do their research before marching around with picket signs spewing hate. Also he did make a good point, Mexicans are indigenous to this country.

[Scientist]

Thats what happens when a bunch of racist rednecks organize a protest. They don't even know what they're protesting. Illegals unfortunately take all the shit, borderline slavery jobs that those pricks would never work. They should do their research before marching around with picket signs spewing hate. Also he did make a good point, Mexicans are indigenous to this country.

Looks like you eat everything the media throws at you. This protest was not against mexicans but against illegal immigrants. Minutemen is not a racist group... a lot of them a war vets. You might want to do your own research.

[Hazard]

Looks like you eat everything the media throws at you. This protest was not against mexicans but against illegal immigrants. Minutemen is not a racist group... a lot of them a war vets. You might want to do your own research.
So because a lot of them are war vets, they're not racist. Nice logic.

[Scientist]

Do your own research. I simply mentioned they're war veterans, not a bunch of rednecks idiot. They have a website which addresses their mission. The group is not racist, but some people within it are.

[Hazard]

Do your own research. I simply mentioned they're war veterans, not a bunch of rednecks idiot. They have a website which addresses their mission. The group is not racist, but some people within it are.
I was commenting on the video... clearly racist and uneducated.

[Scientist]

Thats what happens when a bunch of racist rednecks organize a protest. They don't even know what they're protesting. Illegals unfortunately take all the shit, borderline slavery jobs that those pricks would never work. They should do their research before marching around with picket signs spewing hate. Also he did make a good point, Mexicans are indigenous to this country.

Here you're referring to the group as racists...

[Hazard]

Here you're referring to the group as racists...
Yes, the racist rednecks that organized the protest in the video are racist rednecks. I stand by that. Also an organization with intentions to expel a race of people from this country by generalizing and demanding identification to prove they are not illegal is racist.

[Hawker]

Thats what happens when a bunch of racist rednecks organize a protest. They don't even know what they're protesting. Illegals unfortunately take all the shit, borderline slavery jobs that those pricks would never work. They should do their research before marching around with picket signs spewing hate. Also he did make a good point, Mexicans are indigenous to this country.

He said continent, not country.

[Hawker]

They come here to do the jobs nobody wants to do, they never commit crimes, their country is great and so are the people that's why they hop borders to share their great culture with us. I'm so well informed

Open borders dude!

[Hazard]

He said continent, not country.
Is this country not a part of the continent?

[Sarcastic]

Thanks Fox News.

[Hawker]

Is this country not a part of the continent?

So I'm indigenous to Mexico and Canada? lol ok

[Hazard]

So I'm indigenous to Mexico and Canada? lol ok
If you're white you're indigenous to Europe...

[Sarcastic]

So I'm indigenous to Mexico and Canada? lol ok

Well, if they are in California that used to be part of Mexico not too long ago.

[Hazard]

Fox News lies

My nipples are so hard for you
http://www.dollymix.tv/kylogo300_2.jpg
Go play, little troll.

[Scientist]

They come here to do the jobs nobody wants to do, they never commit crimes, their country is great and so are the people that's why they hop borders to share their great culture with us. I'm so well informed

This is bull dude (not sure if you were being sarcastic), there are plenty of people that will work for their wage. You think they get paid nothing but they don't, they get paid well. Keep our borders close and remove the illegals leeching.

[Hazard]

This is bull dude, there are plenty of people that will work for their wage. You think they get paid nothing but they don't, they get paid well. Keep our borders close and remove the illegals leeching.
:oldlol: Just ignore him, he's some little stupid kid with a troll account.

[Hawker]

If you're white you're indigenous to Europe...

Soooo...mexicans couldn't trace their ancestry back to Spain?

Cortes anybody?

[Bill O'Reilly]

Thats what happens when a bunch of racist rednecks organize a protest. They don't even know what they're protesting. Illegals unfortunately take all the shit, borderline slavery jobs that those pricks would never work. They should do their research before marching around with picket signs spewing hate. Also he did make a good point, Mexicans are indigenous to this country.

I can tell your father was a weakling that's why you hold these view points. I have no doubt you struggle with your sexuality and have no friends

[Hazard]

Soooo...mexicans couldn't trace their ancestry back to Spain?

Coronado anybody?
I'm sure a lot can, there's about 9.8% indigenous people in Mexico, which is 10.1 million people (Wiki). That's a shitload of people.

[Hawker]

I'm sure a lot can, there's about 9.8% indigenous people in Mexico, which is 10.1 million people (Wiki). That's a shitload of people.

If you want to really be a stickler, we can all trace our roots to the same tribe of people. We all came from somewhere.

[Scientist]

I'm sure a lot can, there's about 9.8% indigenous people in Mexico, which is 10.1 million people (Wiki). That's a shitload of people.

When the states purchased the west they agreed to make those living in it citizens. A lot of shit went down including them losing their land but this does not grant illegals from coming over the border.

[Hazard]

I can tell your father was a weakling that's why you hold these view points. I have no doubt you struggle with your sexuality and have no friends
Wow the great Bill O'Reilly himself is concerned with my social status. Should I feel honored or concerned?

[Hazard]

If you want to really be a stickler, we can all trace our roots to the same tribe of people. We all came from somewhere.
I came here when I was 9 :oldlol: so I know where I'm from. A lot of people born here don't.

[Hazard]

I love how you act like were not lovers in real life, remember last night when I dressed like the statue of liberty and u dressed like Obama and you ****ed me silly. I got so turned on
:rockon: Good times.

[Hawker]

I came here when I was 9 :oldlol: so I know where I'm from. A lot of people born here don't.

The point is that there are certain realities in the world.

Being indigenous to a continent =/= being indigenous to a country.

[Hazard]

The point is that there are certain realities in the world.

Being indigenous to a continent =/= being indigenous to a country.
I see what you're saying, but it makes no sense because indigenous means their origins are of this continent. This country exists on this continent, therefore this was their land before Europeans came took it from them and made it "our" country. Same situation as the Native Americans.

[Hazard]

I promise not reveal the fact u cried in my arms afterwards and proceeded to tell me you were molested by all your male family members
K thanks.

[Hawker]

I see what you're saying, but it makes no sense because indigenous means their origins are of this continent. This country exists on this continent, therefore this was their land before Europeans came took it from them and made it "our" country. Same situation as the Native Americans.

Pangea dude. Pangea. Enough said.

[Scientist]

Pangea dude. Pangea. Enough said.
:facepalm

[Hazard]

Pangea dude. Pangea. Enough said.
Hah, imagine living on that bloated ****ing mass of land. Crazy.

[Lakers Legend#32]

Yeah Mexicans!

[G-Funk]

can we all just get along??????

[Showtime]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LCL2IqgjSc&feature=relmfu

what would you do in that situation? I think i would punch that guy with the sunglasses in the face. :cheers:
I'd say the same thing the guy with the camera said. He's more "american" than they are, because he has ancestry that was indigenous to the area. I myself can understand the argument of border security and public aid reform, but these people were just ignorant racist assholes.

[Timmy D for MVP]

There's not much you can do. They're out there for a reason. Although their rhetoric doesn't match-up with the rhetoric of the nation they so proudly "protect" pointing anything out to them will be useless.

:oldlol: at the old lady talking about stopping them from taking the country from us. You're not gonna be around long enough to see anything.

[JtotheIzzo]

to be fair, older white people are getting spooked by all the spin they watch on the news. they mean well, but unfortunately they are trying to protect an ideal which doesn't really exist (your grandfather's America), and they are under the belief that most societal ills are a result of illegal immigrants.

the US is 1/6 Hispanic now, so look for more of this crap.

Hispanic = 'his panic' (his being the possessive of him, and him of course is 'the man')

I coined this phrase just now, I want full credit.

The US should have went the 'guest worker' route. Rich Asian countries like Singapore, Taiwan, HK, Saudi Arabia, UAE, hire a ton of Filipino, Thai and Indonesian workers who migrate there for two to three year contracts and work. While there are problems, they workers bring a lot of cash back to their home country (good for their economy) and they allow their host country to get things like construction and care taking for a fraction of the cost.

It is win win.

[bagelred]

Not to go all George Carlin, but the powers and the elite in this country do a great job of turning the poor and middle class on each other, and distract them from who's really stealing all their money and ruining the country. These white people are convinced illegal immigrants are the problem......:rolleyes:

[Dwade305]

Not to go all George Carlin, but the powers and the elite in this country do a great job of turning the poor and middle class on each other, and distract them from who's really stealing all their money and ruining the country. These white people are convinced illegal immigrants are the problem......:rolleyes:
My Knigget:applause:

[Hazard]

^Yes :applause:

[boozehound]

Stop down playing his role, he wasn't simply asking questions but calling them racists. Keep facepalming but he was in the wrong.
so, its ok for them to swear at him and berate him and call him out for race, but he cant call them racist back? He has every right to be there filming it if he wants, its a ****ing public sidewalk.

and, just for the record, the median wage for farm workers in cali is 9.25/hour. And one out of every 100 jobs in cali is a farm worker.


Also, since you say they cause more problems then they are worth, could you detail that?(despite the history of programs like the Bracero program, where the US govt actually shipped mexicans to the states for seasons)



And you are fooling yourself if you think most of the management companies that farmers like your father employ dont use illegals.

[boozehound]

Pangea dude. Pangea. Enough said.
are you really this retarded?

[Hawker]

are you really this retarded?

No, you're just really dense.

[boozehound]

No, you're just really dense.
OK there. Seriously, while you are entitled to your opinion, the way you debate on this site makes me sad for the education you received at TAMU. You have such a myopic focus on drilling rigs that your viewpoint on the rest of this glorious world is so constrained and childlike that it really does point out the value of a well rounded college education, rather than simply technical training courses.

[Is He Ill]

Lol, @ the little woman, "that doesn't make any sense, you go home." :roll: What a bunch of morons. Their ancestors robbed innocent people of their land and they have the nerve to attack people that do the jobs that they would not do for minimum pay...What the hell is standing on the side of the road with their pathetic little signs going to achieve? That's how you spend your day off of work? If the even have any jobs. There are bigger issues in this country that we have to deal with.

[CelticBaller]

racistas

[boozehound]

while I am of the opinion that illegal immigration needs to be curbed, the viewpoint of these organizations (and the scared old white people in them) is so far removed from placing it in a historical context of immigration in this country that there is no real substantive debate to be had.

[wheyhigh]

scientist, ish's redneck.

"minutemen are an organization with a mission....only some people within are racist"

about 90% of minutemen are racist bastards that are unwilling to tolerate non white people. basically, minutemen see this as an opportunity to protect their country, so they get a gun and proudly "protect" the border. in reality, they are just a bunch of racists unwilling to share their country. i live in az, and i've experience plenty of racist remarks from your glorified white people. so fck you scientist and fck your fathers avocado farm, fck redneck hillbilly incest motherfcker. fck (racist) white people. if only your superiors considered the fact that this country was built by immigrants, oh and it was taken from the indians. oh and a big part was also stolen from mexico. of course, textbooks will only consider a small portion of the story, "arizona, cali, etc were justifiably won". :facepalm

[Hawker]

OK there. Seriously, while you are entitled to your opinion, the way you debate on this site makes me sad for the education you received at TAMU. You have such a myopic focus on drilling rigs that your viewpoint on the rest of this glorious world is so constrained and childlike that it really does point out the value of a well rounded college education, rather than simply technical training courses.

First of all, my Pangea statement was a bit of joke. The beginning of man had to come from somewhere. So we're all "indigenous" to a single tribe or man. That's our "heritage" so to speak. I was pointing out the faulty logic of Hazard and the dude in the video. If you really want to play the, "Your ancestors are from Europe" game, that can easily be turned around on the person playing it.

Second of all, how many advanced math and science classes have you taken? Those are just as important as a racism awareness sociology course. You can explain anything with numbers and I can bet I have as good as or better understanding of why things happen scientifically in the world (pressures, temperatures, thermodynamics, stresses etc) than you do.

A well-rounded college education would really take 5+ years. If I were to take psych/sociology/english courses along with all of my technical classes in 4 years, I'd probably be taking 17+ hours a semester. Sorry, not an option. I already struggle as it is with my technical classes and those classes would just add to the stress. I would only take those psych/socio classes if I could just sit there and listen to the professor talk and not have to write essays. Just listen and take in the lecture and whatever books he has us read. Because really, I wouldn't put too much effort into those classes because they aren't as important as my engineering classes.

So I have a choice to spend more money on psych/socio classes (something I could probably learn from life experience/reading) and take 5+ years or do what I've done (come into college with 29 hours and take 15 hrs or less each semester) to graduate in 4 years with a well-paying job.

I would say a huge problem is taking expensive loans out for an education for a degree where you won't get paid shit. You leave college with tons of debt and really, no job prospects at all. It's important to understand your earning potential with whatever degree your choosing and compare that to how much you're paying for college. If you do that and choose to still take out that loan, don't complain about not having a job and trying to pay off loans. Call me myopic, narrow-minded or whatever...but that just doesn't make any sense in REALITY.

And I really wouldn't call it technical training courses, I would call it a well-rounded engineering education. I have a pretty good understanding of the scientific laws the world is bounded by.

[boozehound]

First of all, my Pangea statement was a bit of joke. The beginning of man had to come from somewhere. So we're all "indigenous" to a single tribe or man. That's our "heritage" so to speak. I was pointing out the faulty logic of Hazard and the dude in the video. If you really want to play the, "Your ancestors are from Europe" game, that can easily be turned around on the person playing it.

Second of all, how many advanced math and science classes have you taken? Those are just as important as a racism awareness sociology course. You can explain anything with numbers and I can bet I have as good as or better understanding of why things happen scientifically in the world (pressures, temperatures, thermodynamics, stresses etc) than you do.

A well-rounded college education would really take 5+ years. If I were to take psych/sociology/english courses along with all of my technical classes in 4 years, I'd probably be taking 17+ hours a semester. Sorry, not an option. I already struggle as it is with my technical classes and those classes would just add to the stress. I would only take those psych/socio classes if I could just sit there and listen to the professor talk and not have to write essays. Just listen and take in the lecture and whatever books he has us read. Because really, I wouldn't put too much effort into those classes because they aren't as important as my engineering classes.

So I have a choice to spend more money on psych/socio classes (something I could probably learn from life experience/reading) and take 5+ years or do what I've done (come into college with 29 hours and take 15 hrs or less each semester) to graduate in 4 years with a well-paying job.

I would say a huge problem is taking expensive loans out for an education for a degree where you won't get paid shit. You leave college with tons of debt and really, no job prospects at all. It's important to understand your earning potential with whatever degree your choosing and compare that to how much you're paying for college. If you do that and choose to still take out that loan, don't complain about not having a job and trying to pay off loans. Call me myopic, narrow-minded or whatever...but that just doesn't make any sense in REALITY.

And I really wouldn't call it technical training courses, I would call it a well-rounded engineering education. I have a pretty good understanding of the scientific laws the world is bounded by.
to be fair, I have never taken a single sociology course. and I have taken graduate coursework in chemical ecology, botany, light microscopy, electrical microscopy, and ramen microscopy. You clearly have no concept of what I do.

The fact that you think that other disciplines are such a breeze that life experience is the equivalent is both incredibly insulting and further displays your sheer ignorance in life. "Like I need a course telling me how to drill a hole?" thats your attitude reflected back at you and, hopefully, it makes you realize how truly stupid (which I know you are not) those statements make you sound.

And, while its clear that pangea was a joke, it was not a funny, witty or even good joke. We know where anatomically modern humans came from. That has nothing to do with the recent history of immigration to the US (which is a valid reference to make). Especially in light of the history of california (whats the name of that town again? and what language is that?). So, for you to attempt to invalidate a claim to indigenous heritage with a lame quip about pangea? Weaksauce, doo dooo baby butt squirts (did I do that right, joshie?)

[KeylessEntry]

Those militiamen are just beyond stupid. I am hesitant to call them militiamen because any militia composed of these idiot senior citizen toolbags in that video would likely get their asses kicked by any real opposition. The best part is the 80 year old woman who keeps yelling "You dont even make any sense!"

[boozehound]

and, hawker, one of my areas of expertise (palynology) was actually at the forefront of oil and gas exploration into the 70s and 80s. So, while you like to think of me as some po-mo sociology guy who hates white people, I am actually engaged in applications of science to understanding paleoenvironments and past human lifeways.

[Hazard]

How's my logic faulty? There were no people on Pangaea. MY LOGIC IS FLAWLESS GODDAMMIT ;P

[Hawker]

to be fair, I have never taken a single sociology course. and I have taken graduate coursework in chemical ecology, botany, light microscopy, electrical microscopy, and ramen microscopy. You clearly have no concept of what I do.

The fact that you think that other disciplines are such a breeze that life experience is the equivalent is both incredibly insulting and further displays your sheer ignorance in life. "Like I need a course telling me how to drill a hole?" thats your attitude reflected back at you and, hopefully, it makes you realize how truly stupid (which I know you are not) those statements make you sound.

And, while its clear that pangea was a joke, it was not a funny, witty or even good joke. We know where anatomically modern humans came from. That has nothing to do with the recent history of immigration to the US (which is a valid reference to make). Especially in light of the history of california (whats the name of that town again? and what language is that?). So, for you to attempt to invalidate a claim to indigenous heritage with a lame quip about pangea? Weaksauce, doo dooo baby butt squirts (did I do that right, joshie?)

I don't think those classes are a breeze. I just wouldn't put as much effort into them. Once again, thank you for twisting my words. You seem to be very good at that. And no, I don't know what you do and I never claimed to.

I just said that with my well-rounded engineering education, I have better than or as good as of an understanding of the world's boundaries than you. Obviously you know about some subjects better than me like the classes you mentioned but the basics (pressure, temperature, stress phenomenons etc.) are what I'm talking about.

Thank you for ignoring a large portion of my post.

[Hawker]

and, hawker, one of my areas of expertise (palynology) was actually at the forefront of oil and gas exploration into the 70s and 80s. So, while you like to think of me as some po-mo sociology guy who hates white people, I am actually engaged in applications of science to understanding paleoenvironments and past human lifeways.

Cool. I'll look into it.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

****ing racist b!tch.

[kentatm]

umm... Hawker... I am going to have to call you out just a tad.

A&M is not so expensive that you would have been killing yourself to have an extra semester to get a more well rounded education.

and seriously? life experience can make up the ground for a sociology class or something along those lines?

come on now. you are way smarter than that.

[Scientist]

so, its ok for them to swear at him and berate him and call him out for race, but he cant call them racist back? He has every right to be there filming it if he wants, its a ****ing public sidewalk.

and, just for the record, the median wage for farm workers in cali is 9.25/hour. And one out of every 100 jobs in cali is a farm worker.


Also, since you say they cause more problems then they are worth, could you detail that?(despite the history of programs like the Bracero program, where the US govt actually shipped mexicans to the states for seasons)



And you are fooling yourself if you think most of the management companies that farmers like your father employ dont use illegals.


Wherever you're getting your figures they're wrong unless it's a national average. In Temecula, labor is not cheap... even with illegals. Hiring illegals takes away from the farming subsidies the government gives for agriculture which is why they're not worth the trouble.

A lot of management firms know this and they use it for marketing. So i know for a fact that the cut that those firms get goes towards US citizens.

And the US may have brought in Mexicans for labor in the past (most likely during the height of our economy), but now that unemployment percentage have skyrocketed what do you think the result would be?

BTW why even bother with Hawker...

[Scientist]

scientist, ish's redneck.

"minutemen are an organization with a mission....only some people within are racist"

about 90% of minutemen are racist bastards that are unwilling to tolerate non white people. basically, minutemen see this as an opportunity to protect their country, so they get a gun and proudly "protect" the border. in reality, they are just a bunch of racists unwilling to share their country. i live in az, and i've experience plenty of racist remarks from your glorified white people. so fck you scientist and fck your fathers avocado farm, fck redneck hillbilly incest motherfcker. fck (racist) white people. if only your superiors considered the fact that this country was built by immigrants, oh and it was taken from the indians. oh and a big part was also stolen from mexico. of course, textbooks will only consider a small portion of the story, "arizona, cali, etc were justifiably won". :facepalm

Site your 90% figure. LOL @ calling me a redneck... you've lost your cool/debate before we even started. Some people on this forum really can't have a civil convo before resorting to the above can they.

[Hawker]

umm... Hawker... I am going to have to call you out just a tad.

A&M is not so expensive that you would have been killing yourself to have an extra semester to get a more well rounded education.

and seriously? life experience can make up the ground for a sociology class or something along those lines?

come on now. you are way smarter than that.

I would just be taking an extra semester to take an extra semester. Yeah, college is badass but I'm tired of college station...tired of northgate. It's time to move on in my life. Sure, I'm trying as hard as possible to have as much fun now as I can but I'm not trying to spend the prime of my life in college station.

[boozehound]

Wherever you're getting your figures they're wrong unless it's a national average. In Temecula, labor is not cheap... even with illegals. Hiring illegals takes away from the farming subsidies the government gives for agriculture which is why they're not worth the trouble.

A lot of management firms know this and they use it for marketing. So i know for a fact that the cut that those firms get goes towards US citizens.

And the US may have brought in Mexicans for labor in the past (most likely during the height of our economy), but now that unemployment percentage have skyrocketed what do you think the result would be?

BTW why even bother with Hawker...
my figures are from the bureau of labor statistics as of May 2009. and it is for california alone. The national median is about $8.91.


Many people actually argue these are falsely inflated, as they are only the reported figures and do not include the more unscrupulous people who would not self-report.

[Scientist]

my figures are from the bureau of labor statistics as of May 2009. and it is for california alone. The national median is about $8.91.


Many people actually argue these are falsely inflated, as they are only the reported figures and do not include the more unscrupulous people who would not self-report.

I don't know what other parts of the state pay, but if it's anywhere near what my fathers options were then it's way below. But you have to agree that even at 8.91/hr they're not getting paid pennies but rather a good 16-17k a year income tax free.

[boozehound]

I don't know what other parts of the state pay, but if it's anywhere near what my fathers options were then it's way below. But you have to agree that even at 8.91/hr they're not getting paid pennies but rather a good 16-17k a year income tax free.
why do you think its income tax free? Almost certainly the management companies are taking taxes out of their wages (which they cannot get back if they are illegal, even though most of them would be entitled to a full refund plus EIC). The studies I have seen show that illegals pay more into the system (income tax, SS, sales tax, etc) than they get back. Let me see if I can find them real quick.

as usual, its a mixed bag (in that state and local govts are likely to lose money rendering services to illegals, but its overall a small fraction of the cost of those same services for legal residents).

But as far as actual taxation

Taxes

The IRS estimates that about 6 million unauthorized immigrants file individual income tax returns each year.[3] Research reviewed by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office indicates that between 50 percent and 75 percent of unauthorized immigrants pay federal, state, and local taxes.[3] Illegal immigrants are estimated to pay in about $7 billion per year into Social Security.[15]
Ernesto Zedillo, former President of Mexico and current Director of the Yale Center for the Study of Globalization, asserts that illegal immigrants are only a drain on government services when they are incapable of paying taxes; and that this incapacity is the result of restrictive federal policies that require proof of citizenship. He further argues that the US economy has "crucial" need for migrant workers, and that the current debate must acknowledge this rather than just focus on enforcement.[16]
The Internal Revenue Service issues an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) regardless of immigration status because both resident and nonresident aliens may have Federal tax return and payment responsibilities under the Internal Revenue Code. Federal tax law prohibits the IRS from sharing data with other government agencies including the INS. In 2006 1.4 million people used ITIN when filing taxes, of which more than half were illegal immigrants.[17]
[edit]Social security
Illegal immigrants pay social security payroll taxes but are not eligible for benefits. During 2006, Standard & Poor's analysts wrote: "Each year, for example, the U.S. Social Security Administration maintains roughly $6 billion to $7 billion of Social Security contributions in an "earnings suspense file" -- an account for W-2 tax forms that cannot be matched to the correct Social Security number. The vast majority of these numbers are attributable to undocumented workers who will never claim their benefits."[13]
The Social Security Administration has stated that it believes unauthorized work by non-citizens is a major cause of wage items being posted as erroneous wage reports instead of on an individual's earnings record.[18] When Social Security numbers are already in use; names do not match the numbers or the numbers are fake, or the person of record is too old, young, dead etc., the earnings reported to the Social Security Agency are put in an Earnings Suspense file [ESF]. The Social Security spends about $100 million a year and corrects all but about 2% of these. From Tax Years (TY) 1937 through 2003 the ESF had accumulated about 255 million mismatched wage reports, representing $520 billion in wages and about $75 billion in employment taxes paid into the over $1.5 trillion in the Social Security Trust funds. As of October 2005, approximately 8.8 million wage reports, representing $57.8 billion in wages remained unresolved in the suspense file for TY 2003.[18]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_immigrants_in_the_Unite d_States

[boozehound]

BTW as an asian of unknown origin (to me), you might be interested to know that the US Border Patrol started out as the Chinese Exclusion Agency, which were responsible for keeping the unwanted and illegal immigrants from china and other asian countries out of the US (but who were critically important for the low wage, menial labor jobs across the US west). Sound familiar?


also, when did your ancestors come to the states? And can I see their legal immigration documentation?

[Scientist]

You really have no clue unless you experience in first hand. Those that illegals do not do it through management companies generally, they are referred to them from within the farm owners association. You pay them in cash at $15 minimum but generally it's more because it isn't an hourly rate but per pound or box harvested. I want to see the link to your hourly wage statistic in california as i have a hard time believing that's true.

[Scientist]

BTW as an asian of unknown origin (to me), you might be interested to know that the US Border Patrol started out as the Chinese Exclusion Agency, which were responsible for keeping the unwanted and illegal immigrants from china and other asian countries out of the US (but who were critically important for the low wage, menial labor jobs across the US west). Sound familiar?


also, when did your ancestors come to the states? And can I see their legal immigration documentation?

I am first generation to be born in this country, both my father and mother came here in 1976. So that throws wheyheys argument completely out the door. And because this isn't any of my information i will not reveal any of it. I know that it took them 7 years to be granted citizenship. It isn't cheap to file that type of paperwork either. For mexicans to think they can come over illegally is wrong. They should stand in line like the rest of the world to become a US citizen.

[boozehound]

You really have no clue unless you experience in first hand. Those that illegals do not do it through management companies generally, they are referred to them from within the farm owners association. You pay them in cash at $15 minimum but generally it's more because it isn't an hourly rate but per pound or box harvested. I want to see the link to your hourly wage statistic in california as i have a hard time believing that's true.
Believe me, I have lived all over the SW (and the greatlakes, where there is a huge demand for farmworkers for the apples and cherries). Ive seen it firsthand, from the day laborers to the farm workers. and, sure, much of the money crossing hands is unreported (much like most of the small scale construction industry), but if the GAO estimates that 50-75% of illegals pay local, state and federal income tax (and 7 billion in social security), there is a pretty good indication that a lot of the money earned by illegals is, in fact, taxed.

as for the stat, its from the bureau of labor statistics. Not very hard to find, as the govt has loads of data on this kind of stuff all over the net.

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes452092.htm

[Scientist]

Based simply off of the link, what percentage of illegal immigrants do you think work in the industry? Because a lot of people have greatly overrated that number. And the pay is not bad to be honest, no one is paying them pennies. And again, those numbers are low for one reason. All farmers pay their labor workers based on pounds yielded. This number is always round down for the government subsidies to kick in.

[JaggerCommaMick]

Thanks Fox News.


:facepalm

[G-Funk]

I think this has something more to this than just illegals hurting the ecomony. They have been here for decades and no one ever said anything, the politians just turn their cheek. And now after 911 and the economy downfall they want to use poor illegal immigrants as scapegoats and what makes this sad is that u have gullible ppl eating all this shit that the media is feeding them, not to mention the racists who are getting in on this. So my question is Whats going to happen when the economy issues are relieved and everyone takes back those great jobs? Who's gonna clean their toilets? Who's gonna crop their food, who's gonna wash their car!

I bet after the protesting, they are gonna drive themselves to Mc Donalds get served by a illegal then drive to a car wash to get their chrysler washed by a illegal & go home to see a illgeal mowing their lawn.