Vince Carter quickly tumbling down the Iverson route...

[OmniStrife]

The Suns really needed that triple-OT game in L.A. They didn't need Vince Carter to shoot 2-for-13 from 3-point range. Between Tuesday and Wednesday's win over the Raptors, the Suns were a minus-31 with Carter on the floor and a plus-37 with him on the bench. By Sunday, he had lost his starting job.

Vince Carter has been so amazingly terrible this year with the Suns that I'm finding it hard to believe he'll actually rebound from this.

I've brought the LA game as an example since it was probably the game that most people here saw, but it's like this 95% of the time, a terrible black hole resided on the Suns' 2 spot.
And he's not even trying.

The more I thought about it, the more I felt I've seen it before...

http://i56.tinypic.com/2r6lc8w.png

[Clippersfan86]

This isn't even the most important part of this! He's also been complaining of playing time I guess and in a few of the recent Suns games he looks totally unengaged. Very distant from his teammates.

[Rnbizzle]

Not a bad comparison.. Shame it's probable gonna be that way, Vince Carter will still be the GOAT dunker though..

[Go Getter]

Lol, how's Nash been playing lately?

[OmniStrife]

Not a bad comparison.. Shame it's probable gonna be that way, Vince Carter will still be the GOAT dunker though..
As is AI the GOAT little man / crossover master... :(

[Vancouver-Grizz]

I think there is still going to be a market for him. I am sure there is still some teams willing to drop the MLE on him. The man can still shoot the ball.

New York, SA, New Jersey, Dallas, Bulls can all use a guy like VC. It is just trying to understand how to utilize him more efficiently now since he lost some of his athleticism.

[DuMa]

i never seen a true pic than that one. its sad. :(

[Mr. Jabbar]

I started watching him closely in Orlando. Worst choker in the league, costed them playoffs series. Plus the guy doesnt even try.

I feel sorry for any1 landing this cancer at this point. PHX I totally feel you, this guy is atrocious and the comparison with iverson in cancerous terms serves right.

[OmniStrife]

i never seen a true pic than that one. its sad. :(
I made it myself... :cheers:

:cry:

[Mr. Jabbar]

I made it myself... :cheers:

:cry:

thats epic man, props for that.

[rodman91]

Olajuwon,Ewing had similar endings. It happens even best players..bad endings :(

http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/multimedia/photo_gallery/0804/nba.hakeem.olajuwon/images/2001.jpg

[ReturnofJPR]

2 men who could never conquer their own minds...they have been their own worst enemy all along.

[boozehound]

Olajuwon,Ewing had similar endings. It happens even best players..bad endings :(

http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/multimedia/photo_gallery/0804/nba.hakeem.olajuwon/images/2001.jpg
to be fair, olajuwon won the raptors a playoff game by himself late in his career.


Love the pic omni. Havent really been following the suns this year, but Im not too surprised.

[0000000]

I remember when those two (you can add McGray too) used to be compared to Kobe lol.

[OmniStrife]

I remember when those two (you can add McGray too) used to be compared to Kobe lol.
T-Mac got injured that's why I did not include him.

[guy]

That Ewing-Hakeem pic is crazy. Reminds me of that pic with Jordan as a Wizard guarding Pippen as a Blazer. Anyway, its a fair comparison, but there is one huge difference IMO. AI did care, played with heart and was very competitive. His problem was he could only play one way, and at the end of his career, he struggled with that opnce he wasn't such a valued player. The only time I've ever seen Vince Carter give a sh*t is the series vs. the Sixers and anytime he faces the Raptors. Other times, he just looks like he's out there to collect a paycheck. I could never say that about AI.

[rodman91]

Too bad, even now people think Kobe was easily best guard in early 00's.

[Stillatitdamnit]

I remember when those two (you can add McGray too) used to be compared to Kobe lol.
VC yea......but Tmac is a bum. Always was and always will be. Couldnt even win shit with the best Center in the game carrying him around.

[XxSMSxX]

That Ewing-Hakeem pic is crazy. Reminds me of that pic with Jordan as a Wizard guarding Pippen as a Blazer. Anyway, its a fair comparison, but there is one huge difference IMO. AI did care, played with heart and was very competitive. His problem was he could only play one way, and at the end of his career, he struggled with that opnce he wasn't such a valued player. The only time I've ever seen Vince Carter give a sh*t is the series vs. the Sixers and anytime he faces the Raptors. Other times, he just looks like he's out there to collect a paycheck. I could never say that about AI.

This, the difference between AI and Carter is that Carter sucks because he doesn't care, AI was terrible because of his actual ability

[guy]

This, the difference between AI and Carter is that Carter sucks because he doesn't care, AI was terrible because of his actual ability

AI was as talented and athletic as they come. It wasn't his ability. It was his style of play that he just couldn't get away from.

[ihatetimthomas]

Vince's drastic decline in athletic ability has hurt him bad. He can no longer get by his defenders. He no longer has a quick first step. He cant finish like he used to. And while he never was an elite defender, he has become a huge liability defensively. A lot of it is his decline physically, but also you can see his heart is not in the game. He looks like he is just going through the motions. I think he should retire next year, wouldn't surprise me if he does. He has a decent career, made good money. Time to move on.

[XxSMSxX]

AI was as talented and athletic as they come. It wasn't his ability. It was his style of play that he just couldn't get away from.

I'm talking about his Detroit stint and everything after that. AI lost that explosiveness/ quickness that allowed him to get into the paint so effortlessly

[Clippersfan86]

Guys on NBA 2k11 I've tried to recreate Iverson and can't! Don't laugh at me... but the dude was truly one of the most unique players in league history. A 6'0 shooting guard.. volume scorer who could flat out carry scrubs to the finals in his prime. Carter, Iverson and Ben Wallace were my favorite players of the 00's.

[guy]

Vince's drastic decline in athletic ability has hurt him bad. He can no longer get by his defenders. He no longer has a quick first step. He cant finish like he used to. And while he never was an elite defender, he has become a huge liability defensively. A lot of it is his decline physically, but also you can see his heart is not in the game. He looks like he is just going through the motions. I think he should retire next year, wouldn't surprise me if he does. He has a decent career, made good money. Time to move on.

For his talents, he might end up having the most disappointing career ever IMO. I would say T-Mac too, but he's had alot of injuries and alot of bad luck with injuries to his own teammates (snakebitten to have Grant Hill and Yao Ming as the two best teammates of his career). There's no reason Vince Carter shouldn't have been up there with Kobe, Lebron, or Wade as a perimeter player other then mentality. He's not even close to Pierce, Allen, Ginobili, or AI.

[Rolando]

I agree; you can see that he is just going through the motions. He is finished. I find it hard to believe that management and players around the league don't see this too.

[ihatetimthomas]

For his talents, he might end up having the most disappointing career ever IMO. I would say T-Mac too, but he's had alot of injuries and alot of bad luck with injuries to his own teammates (snakebitten to have Grant Hill and Yao Ming as the two best teammates of his career). There's no reason Vince Carter shouldn't have been up there with Kobe, Lebron, or Wade as a perimeter player other then mentality. He's not even close to Pierce, Allen, Ginobili, or AI.

I can agree with that. For a guy with such gifted physical abilities, it truly sucks to not see it 100% realized. Which is why I have utmost respect for guys like kobe who has maximized his abilities through his work ethic and professional approach to the game. Basketball is a game of talent, but talent can only take you so far.

[Kingsfans818]

That Ewing-Hakeem pic is crazy. Reminds me of that pic with Jordan as a Wizard guarding Pippen as a Blazer. Anyway, its a fair comparison, but there is one huge difference IMO. AI did care, played with heart and was very competitive. His problem was he could only play one way, and at the end of his career, he struggled with that opnce he wasn't such a valued player. The only time I've ever seen Vince Carter give a sh*t is the series vs. the Sixers and anytime he faces the Raptors. Other times, he just looks like he's out there to collect a paycheck. I could never say that about AI.

where I can see jordan/pip pic mentioned

[guy]

where I can see jordan/pip pic mentioned

I saw it on here a while ago. Only thing I can tell you is to google it. Sorry man.

[guy]

I can agree with that. For a guy with such gifted physical abilities, it truly sucks to not see it 100% realized. Which is why I have utmost respect for guys like kobe who has maximized his abilities through his work ethic and professional approach to the game. Basketball is a game of talent, but talent can only take you so far.

I'm not even sure he reached 50%. This guy was up there in athleticism with Jordan and Lebron. The furthest he ever got was an ECF, and he was nowhere near the reason for that, and he's made 2 All-NBA teams his whole career, one 2nd and one 3rd.

[Kensta]

Too bad, even now people think Kobe was easily best guard in early 00's.

He was.

[iDunk]

Carter can still score, he just needs the coach to tell him that he wants him to be the go-to guy. Carter is not done.

[Loneshot]

Damn, I miss AI. Just don't see anyone like him in the league anymore (heart-wise with his ability)

[Quata]

where I can see jordan/pip pic mentioned
http://www.peninsulaclarion.com/images/121102/TRAIL_BLAZERS_WIZAR.jpg

for future reference, google is your friend. "Pippen guarding jordan blazers wizards" gives you it in the first results.

[OmniStrife]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/nhoj_schmeitz/jordanvs.jpg

[MayCeltics]

Too bad, even now people think Kobe was easily best guard in early 00's.

Iverson, McGrady, and Vince were all better than Kobe.

[Noob Saibot]

there may be some difference with this VC and AI comparison. What got AI out the league was him getting into troubles off the court and wanting to be a starter and not a bench player on a given team. Had AI not been so selfish, he would still be in the league. Now Carter's problem is he never improved his basketball skills after losing his superior hops and agility, plus like others have said he's too careless. He only plays hard whenever he feels like it. It's like a light swtich with this man.

[High Roller]

VC yea......but Tmac is a bum. Always was and always will be. Couldnt even win shit with the best Center in the game carrying him around.

Sneakily done RG, well played. :rockon:

[Kensta]

Iverson, McGrady, and Vince were all better than Kobe.

:facepalm

[macpierce]

Iverson, McGrady, and Vince were all better than Kobe.
credibility lost, you never had it in the first place tho :oldlol:

[Mr. Jabbar]

Iverson, McGrady, and Vince were all better than Kobe.

thanks for the laugh

[DStebb716]

Carter is going to hold out for a contender this offseason and probably will get it. If he doesn't, he could sign a cheap two year deal with the Bobcats to go home to NC for MJ and play mentor before he retires.

[rodman91]

Iverson, McGrady, and Vince were all better than Kobe.

Not Carter but for other two, in their prime, is arguable.

[rodman91]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/nhoj_schmeitz/jordanvs.jpg
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/163224/lg_rodmanpippen_ap_01_medium.jpg

These are one of worst memories for me and probably for other bulls fans.

[LilBTheBasedGod]

Wow I never knew Rodman played for the Lakers.

[ihatetimthomas]

Carter can still score, he just needs the coach to tell him that he wants him to be the go-to guy. Carter is not done.

Any team that has VC as your goto guy is going to be one of the worst teams in the league. And any coach making him the #1 option is not going to have his job long. Have you seen him play lately? VC's #1 option days are long gone.

[rodman91]

Wow I never knew Rodman played for the Lakers.

Its normal, he played only 23 games, 11 as starter. But still 11.2 RPG next to Shaq in 28.6 minutes. (98-99 season)

He also played for Mavs only 12 games next year. 14.3 RPG in 32.4 minutes. He was leading league at 39 years old :cheers:
http://www.dallasnews.com/incoming/20110218-rodman.jpg.ece/ALTERNATES/w620/RODMAN.JPG

[NOHCP3]

Ive always thought of VC to be a tremendous waste of talent. I wasnt the first to say it but if he had Allen Iverson's heart imagine where he could have gone. People wanna talk about Lebron "quiting"?? Which some Vince Carter games. I know he didnt have the best supporting cast in Toronto but come on.

AI's career met its untimely end because he refused to change his mindset. VC still has a shot to be a contributer. His body language during some games though.... My god. I knew when Orlando got him to be "the guy" next to D12 was a huge mistake. They saw the writing on the wall.

[Rake2204]

Did you guys think it was fun to watch him play? For the majority of his career (Raptors and Nets days) I had a blast watching this guy. He was electric in the sense that he always had me wondering what he was going to pull off next. Aside from the historic dunking prowess, he also had a knack for completing insanely acrobatic layups and had a number of big plays down the stretch for ballclubs (while averaging 24, 6 and 4).

I know it's easy to always pull the "oh man what could he have been if he'd actually cared" card, but I mean, we're not talking about Gerald Green here (and in truth, even Gerald Green had to work hella-hard just to get to where he did). As physically and naturally gifted as you guys think Vince Carter was, that talent still would not have walked him to 20,000 points.

I understand the thought a lot of folks have in believing Vince Carter had nearly no care for improving or performing well in the game of basketball. That sentiment does seem to be taking on a life of its own though. I always feel like I missed a really huge breaking story where Vince Carter was caught on hidden camera stating definitively that he had absolutely no care for the game and had never ever worked to be a good ballplayer.

I'll readily admit I could be blinded by bias. But one of the sole reasons I'm biased in the first place is because I liked watching him play basketball. I just always had this feeling people took a look at his default game face and drew conclusions. Then, once it came out that he slipped his way out of Toronto by providing a lack of effort during his final days, he never had a chance.

[rodman91]

Ive always thought of VC to be a tremendous waste of talent. I wasnt the first to say it but if he had Allen Iverson's heart imagine where he could have gone. People wanna talk about Lebron "quiting"?? Which some Vince Carter games. I know he didnt have the best supporting cast in Toronto but come on.

AI's career met its untimely end because he refused to change his mindset. VC still has a shot to be a contributer. His body language during some games though.... My god. I knew when Orlando got him to be "the guy" next to D12 was a huge mistake. They saw the writing on the wall.

After going out of Toronto things went down for him.Like Iverson after Sixers. Its not easy for players with such ego to be second star. (Iverson & Carter had really good numbers with those teams but it was more like silence before storm.)

Same thing can be said for T-mac too but he was always injured. Kobe's luck wasn't his work ethic.He played for Lakers. And Lakers have really good managment. After post Shaq era they were able to get good contender cast.

About iverson and his mindset.. he changed his mindset as scorer actually. Even in Denver, they were playing more on Anthony.In detroit he really tried to play out of his style.Maybe he shouldn't.At least you could have even better career numbers.

He was always against being bench player.He didn't mind shooting less in Detroit and second time in Sixers.

Its not easy for players like these to accept being role player in late years.Some of them can,some of them can't. I don't think Kobe can handle to be role player after couple of years especially in some other team.Even though they are pro, they are still humans after all.

[NOHCP3]

Same thing can be said for T-mac too but he was always injured. Kobe's luck wasn't his work ethic.He played for Lakers. And Lakers have really good managment. After post Shaq era they were able to get good contender cast.

About iverson and his mindset.. he changed his mindset as scorer actually. Even in Denver, they were playing more on Anthony.In detroit he really tried to play out of his style.Maybe he shouldn't.At least you could have even better career numbers.

He was always against being bench player.He didn't mind shooting less in Detroit and second time in Sixers.

Its not easy for players like these to accept being role player in late years.Some of them can,some of them can't. I don't think Kobe can handle to be role player after couple of years especially in some other team.Even though they are pro, they are still humans after all.

I do remember seeing a different AI in DET. Cant blame him for DEN because I think that was a bad duo. But it always puzzled me with AI because he wanted to win so badly. Why not accept that role? While he wasn't going to make a huge difference in Memphis at least he could have played and gotten a better contract with a better team.

VC had a good NJ team and a good Magic squad. Compared to AI he was dealt better hands

[rodman91]

I do remember seeing a different AI in DET. Cant blame him for DEN because I think that was a bad duo. But it always puzzled me with AI because he wanted to win so badly. Why not accept that role? While he wasn't going to make a huge difference in Memphis at least he could have played and gotten a better contract with a better team.

VC had a good NJ team and a good Magic squad. Compared to AI he was dealt better hands

I remember in his prime he was saying he doesn't want to be Jordan,Bird,Isiah,Magic all he wants to say he can able to say he did it with his way. Maybe he didn't want to be some kind of ring chaser. Maybe he prefered to be more than just carried.

I really like iverson, i wish he was still in NBA, however i wouldn't like to see him as a ring chaser.I will remember him like a underdog fighter from Philadephia. (like Rocky:D )

[Nash-tastic]

VC has just been flat out horrible for the Suns... I just don't want to see him on the court anymore

[iDunk]

Guy will have a fantastic season next year if used right.

I really hope the Nets sign him and bring him back.

[MightyWhitey]

Vince Carter = No Heart

[HighFlyer23]

This dude wasted away legit GOAT potential

SMH @ Vince

[Assassin]

That pic is epic and very sad. :(

[FKAri]

After going out of Toronto things went down for him.Like Iverson after Sixers. Its not easy for players with such ego to be second star. (Iverson & Carter had really good numbers with those teams but it was more like silence before storm.)

Same thing can be said for T-mac too but he was always injured. Kobe's luck wasn't his work ethic.He played for Lakers. And Lakers have really good managment. After post Shaq era they were able to get good contender cast.

About iverson and his mindset.. he changed his mindset as scorer actually. Even in Denver, they were playing more on Anthony.In detroit he really tried to play out of his style.Maybe he shouldn't.At least you could have even better career numbers.

He was always against being bench player.He didn't mind shooting less in Detroit and second time in Sixers.

Its not easy for players like these to accept being role player in late years.Some of them can,some of them can't. I don't think Kobe can handle to be role player after couple of years especially in some other team.Even though they are pro, they are still humans after all.

You really must not understand Vince if you think ego was his problem. VC has always been a very willing team player. In fact too much so at times. It's similar to the knock people had on Garnett early in his career that he can be too unselfish at times.

But VC's problems started with a complete lack of, and unwillingness to work on a midrange game. His other problem was shot selection. You'll notice this seometimes (not anymore but back in the Toronto or NJ days) that on a move VC had a tendency to make up his mind on a move without fully analyzing what the defense was offering him. An example would be a turnaround fadeaway on a guy who he's got several inches on, etc. In a sense it's a type of poor shot selection.

None of this seems too obvious in the young VC cuz he was so good and so young and was obviously expected to improve. And he did improve (like his jumpshot for example). But then after that 2nd big injury his mentality started to change. He started to take it easy a bit. This also changed his passion for the game. He viewed the game in a different light. He was happy that he could just play basketball again. He also lost some of his athleticism (after each successive injury he'd take a step down).

He was still an incredible player but now at his old age we're seeing how some of those thing like the shot selection, lack of a midrange game are more obvious to see as flaws. Because in all honesty after 2002 VC stopped working on his game. The injuries and age have diminished his athleticism, he has the same skill sets as he had then, and he's lost the passion. Bad combination.

[pretty much copy paste this in every VC thread]

[magic chiongson]

http://oi53.tinypic.com/a3i22p.jpg

congrats :cheers:

[Clippersfan86]

http://oi53.tinypic.com/a3i22p.jpg

congrats :cheers:

:oldlol: :roll:

[SirPresident]

I would like to point out that one huge difference is if Carter still cared as much as Iverson does right now, he would be doing just fine. Iverson was just to small to recover from his athletic decline and refuses to accept a smaller role. Vince just does not have the heart to be a professional athlete though he has every other tool.

[wagexslave]

I would like to point out that one huge difference is if Carter still cared as much as Iverson does right now, he would be doing just fine. Iverson was just to small to recover from his athletic decline and refuses to accept a smaller role. Vince just does not have the heart to be a professional athlete though he has every other tool.
EXACTLY. VC is still athletic as ****, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

He just doesn't care about winning or having good stats at all anymore. He just wants to chuck up shots every time he gets passed the ball and collect his paycheck.

I hate when people act like VC lost his athleticism. Complete bullshit. He's still more athletic than most of the league, you just can't tell because his laziness masks it. Don't make excuses for the man, people.

Grant Hill is 38 years old and BEASTING, 1st team All Defense contender. VC is 34 years old and blows hard c0ck. The only difference is the level of EFFORT they put when they're on the court.

[HighFlyer23]

EXACTLY. VC is still athletic as ****, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

He just doesn't care about winning or having good stats at all anymore. He just wants to chuck up shots every time he gets passed the ball and collect his paycheck.

I hate when people act like VC lost his athleticism. Complete bullshit. He's still more athletic than most of the league, you just can't tell because his laziness masks it. Don't make excuses for the man, people.

Grant Hill is 38 years old and BEASTING, 1st team All Defense contender. VC is 34 years old and blows hard c0ck. The only difference is the level of EFFORT they put when they're on the court.

Agreed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvI5l6ShxI4&feature=channel_video_title

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A39cAGNIoks&feature=channel_video_title

[wagexslave]

Agreed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvI5l6ShxI4&feature=channel_video_title

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A39cAGNIoks&feature=channel_video_title
This is just a couple weeks ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkkqgkBG_i0

The fact that it's against the Raptors is PROOF he can beast when he's motivated.(He was getting booed all night, like every time he plays against them so he was motivated to shut them up)

Dude's just lazy as f*ck.

[Clippersfan86]

This is just a couple weeks ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkkqgkBG_i0

The fact that it's against the Raptors is PROOF he can beast when he's motivated.(He was getting booed all night, like every time he plays against them so he was motivated to shut them up)

Dude's just lazy as f*ck.

WTF are you talking about? In all the dunks you guys linked including the street ball vids.. it's CLEAR as day he's lost a lot of athleticism. Of course a 6'6 player who's only 33-35 in these vids can still dunk.. but they are NOWHERE near vintage Air Canada level! He is a lazy player at times... but he's also lost more than a step. His decline is similar to Baron Davis. Borderline elite players at their peak where it's all mental for them. If they are motivated and happy they can ball but if they don't like their situation they tank it a bit.

[momo]

Wow I never knew Rodman played for the Lakers.

o_O

[Hondo]

http://img87.imageshack.us/i/lakers13pippen102199097ju4.jpg/

http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_nba_experts__65/ept_sports_nba_experts-813961344-1289908547.jpg?ymDVAGEDg99CIH3i

http://img87.imageshack.us/i/lakers13pippen102199097ju4.jpg/

[coin24]

VC is one of my all time favourite players. Best in game dunker by far.
I remember painfully watching craptors games just to see him play:bowdown:

Unfortunately he seems to just not care anymore, no drive or something. He definitely still has athleticism, obviously not like before but he can still throw down some crazy dunks!

I thought it would have gone better in Orlando, maybe he would have gotten motivated or something but it never clicked. I guess Gilbert Arenas is in the same position there now... Hopefully Vince signs somewhere that he'll be happy to play next season and gain some enthusiasm for the game back. Its a long shot but id love to see him play with a bit more effort again...


Also, he was beasting in NJ. Not sure why ppl are saying he sucked when he left toronto:facepalm

[rodman91]

http://oi53.tinypic.com/a3i22p.jpg

congrats :cheers:
Thanks :cheers:
http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2009/8/17/128950297707963370.jpg

[DJ Leon Smith]

This is a good example of what's happened to VC's career recently.

http://nbaplaybook.com/2011/01/06/suns-jason-richardson-set-doesnt-work-for-vince-carter/

[HylianNightmare]

sad but true, i was so glad to see him out of a magic jersey

[rodman91]

Let's not forget that he changed a lot of teams with different playing styles too.True that,he wasn't as good as Kobe,Iverson,T-Mac in prime (even though he was probably best finisher around rim between them) but he could have much better career if he stayed at Toronto.He was really good at New Jersey but he lost his hype after Toronto years.Similar to Iverson's Denver years.

I miss early 00's battles between these players.It was all about Iverson,Kobe,Carter,T-Mac back then even though Shaq & Duncan made difference.

[Rake2204]

In all the dunks you guys linked including the street ball vids.. it's CLEAR as day he's lost a lot of athleticism. Of course a 6'6 player who's only 33-35 in these vids can still dunk.. but they are NOWHERE near vintage Air Canada level! He is a lazy player at times... but he's also lost more than a step. His decline is similar to Baron Davis. Borderline elite players at their peak where it's all mental for them. If they are motivated and happy they can ball but if they don't like their situation they tank it a bit.
I tend to agree with a lot of this. It's incredible to see Vince Carter still performing the same dunks he always has in those streetball links, but it's surely not the same as its always has been. For some reason, it seems he can complete a 360 by jumping 12 inches off the floor.

Also, there was that rumor of a left knee issue with Carter just before being traded. While it apparently did not require surgery, I really wouldn't rule that out as being an ongoing issue right now. Even with a week's rest, knee issues won't always fully heal over the course of an 82-game season.

[HylianNightmare]

Uy still has ups you can see it.
When he played for the magic when he would drive and a could would be called he had some of the craziest follow throughs but it was just for fun to him cause he knew the play was dead, he jut has no motivation to be good anymore and he can live taking jumpshots for whatever team is desperate enough to sign him

[R.I.P]

Damn, I miss AI. Just don't see anyone like him in the league anymore (heart-wise with his ability)

Rep

[It's A VC3!!!]

Phoenix is a horrible fit for Vince. Yeah Vince is in his mid 30s, you surely can't expect him to average 25/5/5 anymore like he did in his early days, but I know that if a game is on the line and Vince has the ball, he can score on any defender.

There are only two destinations that I would be pleased to see Vince in next year
The Nets or the Bulls.

Vince is still a guy that can give you 20 on any given night IF in the right situation. Playing 10 minutes in important games off the bench is not the right situation, like he is in Phoenix.

[HylianNightmare]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON2zSuacy6c

look at the 360 in here, he can still do it, he just doesn't care

[Clippersfan86]

Phoenix is a horrible fit for Vince. Yeah Vince is in his mid 30s, you surely can't expect him to average 25/5/5 anymore like he did in his early days, but I know that if a game is on the line and Vince has the ball, he can score on any defender.

There are only two destinations that I would be pleased to see Vince in next year
The Nets or the Bulls.

Vince is still a guy that can give you 20 on any given night IF in the right situation. Playing 10 minutes in important games off the bench is not the right situation, like he is in Phoenix.

The Bulls could really use a guy like Vince who could be a threat from the 2. If the Bulls sign Vince this offseason for cheap they may be the favorites to win the title before the season even starts. I also think with the disciplined system Chicago runs.. he won't be a problem. If you notice.... elite teams in the league with good coaches... guys who normally were "cancers" or w/e don't affect the team. It's all about how you run your organization.

I don't see Vince going to a contending team and complaining about his role or minutes no matter what it's like. I think a lot of these ex stars do have a big ego but the FO needs to make it a point to have a sit down with them and tell them how they see their role etc. You can't expect a guy who's always started and been a star.. including being the most popular player in the league pre Yao (according to overwhelming all star voting) to accept a bench role out of the blue to a player that isn't as good as him.

If the Suns went to him and explained everything.. I think he'd be in a better place. You think if Detroit was honest with Rip Hamilton and flat out told him their plans and how they feel like they need to go young or w/e.. that he wouldn't of taken it at least a little better?

[guy]

The Bulls could really use a guy like Vince who could be a threat from the 2. If the Bulls sign Vince this offseason for cheap they may be the favorites to win the title before the season even starts. I also think with the disciplined system Chicago runs.. he won't be a problem. If you notice.... elite teams in the league with good coaches... guys who normally were "cancers" or w/e don't affect the team. It's all about how you run your organization.

I don't see Vince going to a contending team and complaining about his role or minutes no matter what it's like. I think a lot of these ex stars do have a big ego but the FO needs to make it a point to have a sit down with them and tell them how they see their role etc. You can't expect a guy who's always started and been a star.. including being the most popular player in the league pre Yao (according to overwhelming all star voting) to accept a bench role out of the blue to a player that isn't as good as him.

If the Suns went to him and explained everything.. I think he'd be in a better place. You think if Detroit was honest with Rip Hamilton and flat out told him their plans and how they feel like they need to go young or w/e.. that he wouldn't of taken it at least a little better?

I wouldn't really care if Chicago got him for cheap, but I wouldn't expect him to be a difference maker, and I'd probably still want a defender like Bogans to start. The Nets and Magic made Finals appearances before he came there, and bringing him in didn't really make much of a difference.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

Possibly. But as long as he doesn't care about taking a lesser role, that shouldn't happen.

[Clippersfan86]

I wouldn't really care if Chicago got him for cheap, but I wouldn't expect him to be a difference maker, and I'd probably still want a defender like Bogans to start. The Nets and Magic made Finals appearances before he came there, and bringing him in didn't really make much of a difference.

You'd change your tune if you got him. Vince is by no means a great defender but he's ok. The Bulls defense isn't strong because of Bogans.. it's a team defensive scheme. Boozer is a terrible defender.. worse than Vince but he's done well for coach T. I think Vince would have the same results. If you're implying Vince wouldn't be an upgrade to Bogans even at his age you need to share what you're smoking with us. Vince would absolutely making a difference when you guys have a gaping hole at SG. When you have Ronnie Brewer and Kyle Korver as back up guards.. and Bogans is the starter you know you're in trouble.

I know I'd happily welcome him to the Clippers. The Clippers are deep at every position besides SF. Our only roster hole is SF with Ryan Gomes starting. I'd happily trade Gomes for Vince Carter even at his age.

[guy]

You'd change your tune if you got him. Vince is by no means a great defender but he's ok. The Bulls defense isn't strong because of Bogans.. it's a team defensive scheme. Boozer is a terrible defender.. worse than Vince but he's done well for coach T. I think Vince would have the same results. If you're implying Vince wouldn't be an upgrade to Bogans even at his age you need to share what you're smoking with us. Vince would absolutely making a difference when you guys have a gaping hole at SG. When you have Ronnie Brewer and Kyle Korver as back up guards.. and Bogans is the starter you know you're in trouble.

I know I'd happily welcome him to the Clippers. The Clippers are deep at every position besides SF. Our only roster hole is SF with Ryan Gomes starting. I'd happily trade Gomes for Vince Carter even at his age.

You make good points. Its not really his ability that would concern me, its more his effort and careless mentality. From 1-12 on the Bulls, EVERYONE plays with a winning mentality. Everyone seems to care a whole lot. I wouldn't want Vince's care-free attitude to rub off on everyone else. If it was actually the other way around where the Bulls' winning mentality rubbed off on Vince, then that would be great. But I don't really feel like that has happened NJ, Orlando, or Phoenix, and although Chicago might be a better destination for that, the only indications we have say he still won't really give a f*ck.

[rodman91]

You make good points. Its not really his ability that would concern me, its more his effort and careless mentality. From 1-12 on the Bulls, EVERYONE plays with a winning mentality. Everyone seems to care a whole lot. I wouldn't want Vince's care-free attitude to rub off on everyone else. If it was actually the other way around where the Bulls' winning mentality rubbed off on Vince, then that would be great. But I don't really feel like that has happened NJ, Orlando, or Phoenix, and although Chicago might be a better destination for that, the only indications we have say he still won't really give a f*ck.
http://thehardwoodblues.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/thibodeau_fistpump.gif
If doesn't play hard,he better stay away from our coach

[Clippersfan86]

You make good points. Its not really his ability that would concern me, its more his effort and careless mentality. From 1-12 on the Bulls, EVERYONE plays with a winning mentality. Everyone seems to care a whole lot. I wouldn't want Vince's care-free attitude to rub off on everyone else. If it was actually the other way around where the Bulls' winning mentality rubbed off on Vince, then that would be great. But I don't really feel like that has happened NJ, Orlando, or Phoenix, and although Chicago might be a better destination for that, the only indications we have say he still won't really give a f*ck.

:cheers: . Remember you guys are a MUCH better organization right now than those teams though. He did well in NJ for the most part. Phoenix is a franchise without a good FO and a bad play style for Vince. People think oh he doesn't play D anyways he should immediately fit but that's not true. Basketball isn't always black and white like that. Vince is used to being at worst a 2nd or 3rd option and Phoenix is kind of cutting him out of the offense. Even when he is getting shots it's pretty much all 3's because Phoenix likes to live and die with the 3. Vince is best if used in the halfcourt.

Orlando is the only situation where he himself kind of screwed up. He vanished in the playoffs and didn't play up to his norm in that uniform. I just think he still has something to give much like McGrady does. He will never be a star again but 12-15 ppg and a couple assists per game is more than you guys get from Bogans right now.

[Clippersfan86]

http://thehardwoodblues.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/thibodeau_fistpump.gif
If doesn't play hard,he better stay away from our coach

You guys have a squad filled with very high accountability players. Noah, Boozer, Rose and Deng are all stand up guys who are the first to accept responsibility for failures and do their part to fix it. You can tell the Bulls players are EXTREMELY unselfish. I don't know if I've ever witnessed a team outside of 2004 Detroit that played like that. Where nobody cares who gets the shots etc... they just want to win and do their part. I could never see one of your guys complaining about their role or shots etc.

Which is why I said Vince would do fine. Coach T and his teammates would keep him feeling comfortable and disciplined.. so I doubt he would make an issue.

[It's A VC3!!!]

But I don't really feel like that has happened NJ, Orlando, or Phoenix, and although Chicago might be a better destination for that, the only indications we have say he still won't really give a f*ck.


Whoah...how can you say that. Vince tried very hard to make it work in New Jersey. He never quit, he always picked guys up, and his stats proved just that. Don't say he never tried in NJ. When he got there, instantly his present was felt. Unfortunately they did not win the championship, but that doesn't mean his hard work is a failure. I can throw a bunch of stats to show that he did try hard in NJ.

[Clippersfan86]

Whoah...how can you say that. Vince tried very hard to make it work in New Jersey. He never quit, he always picked guys up, and his stats proved just that. Don't say he never tried in NJ. When he got there, instantly his present was felt. Unfortunately they did not win the championship, but that doesn't mean his hard work is a failure. I can throw a bunch of stats to show that he did try hard in NJ.

Many will argue prime Vince was actually his first couple seasons in NJ. He became a better defender, a dangerous 3 point shooter and a more complete player. In NJ he actually set the NBA 3 point record before Kobe broke it with 12 if I recall. Vince Carter still has the most range of anyone in the game I think. It's not rare to see him bomb 3's from a few feet behind the line.

[guy]

:cheers: . Remember you guys are a MUCH better organization right now than those teams though. He did well in NJ for the most part. Phoenix is a franchise without a good FO and a bad play style for Vince. People think oh he doesn't play D anyways he should immediately fit but that's not true. Basketball isn't always black and white like that. Vince is used to being at worst a 2nd or 3rd option and Phoenix is kind of cutting him out of the offense. Even when he is getting shots it's pretty much all 3's because Phoenix likes to live and die with the 3. Vince is best if used in the halfcourt.

Orlando is the only situation where he himself kind of screwed up. He vanished in the playoffs and didn't play up to his norm in that uniform. I just think he still has something to give much like McGrady does. He will never be a star again but 12-15 ppg and a couple assists per game is more than you guys get from Bogans right now.

I don't know. Those organizations may not be as strong but they were still strong. New Jersey were just in the Finals 2 years before and had a leader in Jason Kidd who was all about winning. Orlando was in the Finals the year before and were obviously hungry with one of the best players and coaches in the league. Phoenix has a bunch of stand up guys like Nash and Hill who could care less about anything but winning.

I wouldn't put T-Mac and Vince in the same category like some do. T-Mac wasn't expressive, but I think he did try hard and cared alot, even if his team had no shot of doing anything. And he may have not been the most clutch player, but that doesn't mean he didn't care.

Orlando was Vince's best chance to shake off his care-free reputation, and he didn't. Its not necessarily that he didn't play well, its more that you could just tell that he didn't care. I remember at the end of the Boston series, he went up to Rondo smiling and laughing and from the looks of it was actually looking kind of encouraging as if to say he was rooting for them in the next round. This is right after the game ended. I could not imagine ANYONE on the Bulls looking like that after that kind of loss.

[Clippersfan86]

I don't know. Those organizations may not be as strong but they were still strong. New Jersey were just in the Finals 2 years before and had a leader in Jason Kidd who was all about winning. Orlando was in the Finals the year before and were obviously hungry with one of the best players and coaches in the league. Phoenix has a bunch of stand up guys like Nash and Hill who could care less about anything but winning.

I wouldn't put T-Mac and Vince in the same category like some do. T-Mac wasn't expressive, but I think he did try hard and cared alot, even if his team had no shot of doing anything. And he may have not been the most clutch player, but that doesn't mean he didn't care.

Orlando was Vince's best chance to shake off his care-free reputation, and he didn't. Its not necessarily that he didn't play well, its more that you could just tell that he didn't care. I remember at the end of the Boston series, he went up to Rondo smiling and laughing and from the looks of it was actually looking kind of encouraging as if to say he was rooting for them in the next round. This is right after the game ended. I could not imagine ANYONE on the Bulls looking like that after that kind of loss.

Small samples. In NJ and Toronto he was engaged and a great player. In Orlando for 1.5 seasons he was a bust (Like I said only situation he really blew when given the chance). In Phoenix you can tell he's unhappy and there is a rift. They aren't using him in an effective way and it's only been a couple months so it's too soon to say if he's tanking or w/e else people are saying.

[guy]

You guys have a squad filled with very high accountability players. Noah, Boozer, Rose and Deng are all stand up guys who are the first to accept responsibility for failures and do their part to fix it. You can tell the Bulls players are EXTREMELY unselfish. I don't know if I've ever witnessed a team outside of 2004 Detroit that played like that. Where nobody cares who gets the shots etc... they just want to win and do their part. I could never see one of your guys complaining about their role or shots etc.

Which is why I said Vince would do fine. Coach T and his teammates would keep him feeling comfortable and disciplined.. so I doubt he would make an issue.

If Vince was put in a situation where he was going to have to be accountable and accept responsibility, I think there's a good chance he'd exagerrate an injury or something. His care-free attitude does not align with assuming accountablility and responsibility.

[cbombdotcom]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON2zSuacy6c

look at the 360 in here, he can still do it, he just doesn't care

Ok, a little off topic and not to detract from Vince in this clip, but did anybody peep the J-Will dunk??? Goodness.

[HylianNightmare]

Ok, a little off topic and not to detract from Vince in this clip, but did anybody peep the J-Will dunk??? Goodness.


rahard boosted him up:lol

[Real Men Wear Green]

I think there is still going to be a market for him. I am sure there is still some teams willing to drop the MLE on him. The man can still shoot the ball.

New York, SA, New Jersey, Dallas, Bulls can all use a guy like VC. It is just trying to understand how to utilize him more efficiently now since he lost some of his athleticism.
Chi could use VC but if they're looking to get an SG to run with Rose they really should do better than a completely fallen-off old ex-superstar. They need to bring in someone in their 20s that can be around for a while. Dallas has little use for him assuming Butler is ok next season. Jersey has no reason to bring in a borderline retiree to their rebuilding team. Pop isn't known to put up with bullshit in SA and with RJ and Manu I don't see any use for him there either. And NY? They got Landry Fields and Melo, and they need to work on their d. What's the point in getting VC?

[Eat Like A Bosh]

That's sad...:cry:
Vince will always be remembered for his great dunks.
He doesn't have the heart, the work ethic, the killer instinct mentality that Kobe has.
There's a reason Kobe outlasted all of his generation of peers and is competing with the next generation of players.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

I actually miss the old Tracy Mcgrady as well.

[chris2010]

That's sad...:cry:
Vince will always be remembered for his great dunks.
He doesn't have the heart, the work ethic, the killer instinct mentality that Kobe has.
There's a reason Kobe outlasted all of his generation of peers and is competing with the next generation of players.

this. its amazed me over the years. I remember when i first started watching I was seeing players like Arenas, Iverson, Kidd, Nash, etc tearing things up. Now most of them their careers are practically finished. Especially Arenas. he was a hell of a scorer back in the day. Now he has turned into another waste of talent.

[Clippersfan86]

I actually miss the old Tracy Mcgrady as well.

Iverson and Steve Francis too ;p.

[AirJordan&Magic]

That Ewing-Hakeem pic is crazy. Reminds me of that pic with Jordan as a Wizard guarding Pippen as a Blazer. Anyway, its a fair comparison, but there is one huge difference IMO. AI did care, played with heart and was very competitive. His problem was he could only play one way, and at the end of his career, he struggled with that opnce he wasn't such a valued player. The only time I've ever seen Vince Carter give a sh*t is the series vs. the Sixers and anytime he faces the Raptors. Other times, he just looks like he's out there to collect a paycheck. I could never say that about AI.

:applause: I couldn't agree more.

[RaininThrees]

This isn't even the most important part of this! He's also been complaining of playing time I guess and in a few of the recent Suns games he looks totally unengaged. Very distant from his teammates.


Not Vince Carter! I'm SHOCKED.

[Clippersfan86]

Not Vince Carter! I'm SHOCKED.

LOL. He looked like this with Magic too ; \... I don't know what it is. People don't realize how hard it is for teams to manage all these egos and personalities. At the end of the day all you can hope for is the team you assembled will mesh and get along. Very few teams are like the Bulls, Thunder and Celtics where they are an extremely tight group with friendships off the court. Teams that bond like this usually find more success too.

[FKAri]

this. its amazed me over the years. I remember when i first started watching I was seeing players like Arenas, Iverson, Kidd, Nash, etc tearing things up. Now most of them their careers are practically finished. Especially Arenas. he was a hell of a scorer back in the day. Now he has turned into another waste of talent.

:wtf: You saying Nash isn't aging well?

[rodman91]

this. its amazed me over the years. I remember when i first started watching I was seeing players like Arenas, Iverson, Kidd, Nash, etc tearing things up. Now most of them their careers are practically finished. Especially Arenas. he was a hell of a scorer back in the day. Now he has turned into another waste of talent.


Being a player of Lakers and staying there the real reason, i think.Once they are out from their franchise, they lose their invulnerability. (especially when they get older)

Iverson was 3 years older than Kobe so i think he kept his career quite well for a long time and probably he could be still 25 ppg guard if he stayed in Sixers.He was still producing 26.4 ppg, 7.1 apg and 2 spg next to Anthony in denver at same age of Kobe today.

Kidd is 38 years old and he still plays good enough for an 38 years old.

Nash is still hell of a player.

Arenas..He had injuries.Also shipped from Wizards for several reasons so he lost his invulnerability too.

T-Mac had same reasons like Arenas.

Carter's reputation damaged after leaving Toronto.He played really well in NJ first years but his hype slowed down because of success of Kobe,Iverson,T-Mac and also new comers.

Kobe has been player of one team for a decade and he had success along with great team mates.He didn't have any major injuries.Played in same system for many years. Lakers = Hollywood probably most popular NBA team in history.I think those are major key for his career's longevity.

I think workethic of Kobe is quite overhyped thing.Because it sells good.Because fans love to hear that. Jordan stories,Bird stories,Kobe stories similar. However you can't hear much about Rodman's workethic. We didn't hear much stories about his study of game and work out habits. Because his badboy and partyman image sold better.

[Rake2204]

Ok, a little off topic and not to detract from Vince in this clip, but did anybody peep the J-Will dunk??? Goodness.
The Booster Seat Flush!


If Vince was put in a situation where he was going to have to be accountable and accept responsibility, I think there's a good chance he'd exagerrate an injury or something. His care-free attitude does not align with assuming accountablility and responsibility.
I believe Vince Carter's care-free attitude has been largely exaggerated through the years. I say this admitting I have no idea what's been going on with him these past few years in Orlando and Phoenix. But for the majority of his prime, I felt he provided a lot more effort than a lot of people like to ever give him credit for.

I ask sincerely, what consistent actions were taken (or not taken) by Vince Carter for the duration of his career that led one to believe he did not like to assume responsibility or to be held accountable? Looking at your comment now, perhaps you're referring to current Vince, who I feel differs from Toronto/New Jersey Vince.

I'm not posting this clip as a means of saying, "Here's one clip of a pumped up Vince Carter so he must always have been this way" but I thought it'd be worth sharing anyhow. From 2006:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otaBKxCjNJ0 (Stick around for the righteous tip-dunk at 5:37)

[Rake2204]

Vince must have been scanning these boards the other day. He had a little flashback last night. 28 points and a pretty solid two hand reverse dunk on the baseline.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LC83XjG5GA

[iDunk]

Vince must have been scanning these boards the other day. He had a little flashback last night. 28 points and a pretty solid two hand reverse dunk on the baseline.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LC83XjG5GA
Phoenix is stupid for putting Dudley in the starting lineup, dude is a nice 6th man.

Carter can still be a 2nd option on a good team, he was misused in Orlando and is being misused in Phoenix. Carter needs to get 15-20 shots a game, and he would show you how good he still is.

[PP34Deuce]

Carter is like the Randy Moss of the NBA Sg's. Aside from Moss's off field issues...They both have all this crazy natural talent and just tank when things dont go their way.

But they will always get signed until they are 38 because they were freaks and some coach will think, "I can get him 80% of what he was"

[ihatetimthomas]

Being a player of Lakers and staying there the real reason, i think.Once they are out from their franchise, they lose their invulnerability. (especially when they get older)

Iverson was 3 years older than Kobe so i think he kept his career quite well for a long time and probably he could be still 25 ppg guard if he stayed in Sixers.He was still producing 26.4 ppg, 7.1 apg and 2 spg next to Anthony in denver at same age of Kobe today.

Kidd is 38 years old and he still plays good enough for an 38 years old.

Nash is still hell of a player.

Arenas..He had injuries.Also shipped from Wizards for several reasons so he lost his invulnerability too.

T-Mac had same reasons like Arenas.

Carter's reputation damaged after leaving Toronto.He played really well in NJ first years but his hype slowed down because of success of Kobe,Iverson,T-Mac and also new comers.

Kobe has been player of one team for a decade and he had success along with great team mates.He didn't have any major injuries.Played in same system for many years. Lakers = Hollywood probably most popular NBA team in history.I think those are major key for his career's longevity.

I think workethic of Kobe is quite overhyped thing.Because it sells good.Because fans love to hear that. Jordan stories,Bird stories,Kobe stories similar. However you can't hear much about Rodman's workethic. We didn't hear much stories about his study of game and work out habits. Because his badboy and partyman image sold better.

I totally disagree with you on Kobe's longevity. Yes, he has had good teammates. And yes he has played on the same team. That is going to help anyones career, I get that. But its really dumb to discredit his longevity because of those factors. Was he lucky to play for such a glorious franchise? Of course. But he is who he is because of how hard he has worked, and how dedicated he is to improve. Living in LA didnt make him have that drive and that dedication to be in top shape and be the best. That is all in your mind. I do not think its overhyped because it is the truth. He is still an elite player after 15 years because of his work ethic. Playing at this high level for this long and improving your game over the years is not the result of lucky factors such as playing for one team and getting good players to play with.

[rodman91]

I totally disagree with you on Kobe's longevity. Yes, he has had good teammates. And yes he has played on the same team. That is going to help anyones career, I get that. But its really dumb to discredit his longevity because of those factors. Was he lucky to play for such a glorious franchise? Of course. But he is who he is because of how hard he has worked, and how dedicated he is to improve. Living in LA didnt make him have that drive and that dedication to be in top shape and be the best. That is all in your mind. I do not think its overhyped because it is the truth. He is still an elite player after 15 years because of his work ethic. Playing at this high level for this long and improving your game over the years is not the result of lucky factors such as playing for one team and getting good players to play with.

I'm not saying he doesn't have work ethic. He does. But media loves to bring those stories.Same along with some other stars. And if they have bad boy image like Rodman,Iverson media loves to bring their party habits.

He does have work ethic. We all heard stories about he woke up at 4 am and started work out.All those shooting practice.Also training with Hakeem. What i'm trying to say we didn't hear stories about for example, Rodman's study of rebounding. He watched taped of Jordan and pippen and learned how they miss shots. Both right.For example Rodman studied that shaq's misses and he didn't follow common rule of ball usually get other side of rim.He run towards to shaq after his misses and had advantage.He was riding 2 hours bike after games and stuff like that. But everybody knows his hair,kicking cameraman,fights,dresses,girls,wrestling and more.

About iverson, i don't buy 6'0 and 165 pound guy can still have 26.4 ppg and 7.1 apg at 32 years old without working out enough. I don't believe such tiny guy can be able to stay on top that long with such minutes per game. He played more than 41 minutes per game and averaged 26.7 ppg in 15 seasons. Nobody can do that without working enough.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

Carter is like the Randy Moss of the NBA Sg's. Aside from Moss's off field issues...They both have all this crazy natural talent and just tank when things dont go their way.

But they will always get signed until they are 38 because they were freaks and some coach will think, "I can get him 80% of what he was"
Good one.

[PP34Deuce]

I'm not saying he doesn't have work ethic. He does. But media loves to bring those stories.Same along with some other stars. And if they have bad boy image like Rodman,Iverson media loves to bring their party habits.

He does have work ethic. We all heard stories about he woke up at 4 am and started work out.All those shooting practice.Also training with Hakeem. What i'm trying to say we didn't hear stories about for example, Rodman's study of rebounding. He watched taped of Jordan and pippen and learned how they miss shots. Both right.For example Rodman studied that shaq's misses and he didn't follow common rule of ball usually get other side of rim.He run towards to shaq after his misses and had advantage.He was riding 2 hours bike after games and stuff like that. But everybody knows his hair,kicking cameraman,fights,dresses,girls,wrestling and more.

About iverson, i don't buy 6'0 and 165 pound guy can still have 26.4 ppg and 7.1 apg at 32 years old without working out enough. I don't believe such tiny guy can be able to stay on top that long with such minutes per game. He played more than 41 minutes per game and averaged 26.7 ppg in 15 seasons. Nobody can do that without working enough.


Rodman was a hardworker for teh reason that most people didnt even project him as an NBA player. I read his bio and he had to climb up the old fashion way.

Iverson is different. hes just a freak athlete who had a natural aptitude with sports. I dont believe he worked hard like Kobe,Paul Pierce,Grant Hill,or even Derek Rose...He kinda is the type of guy who you could show him 2-3 things in soccer and he picks up on it. Ive always thought AI,Vince Carter,Michael Vick(NFL) are guys that just freakishly can adapt naturally without trying.

Remember his infamous practice speech.

[Nets fan 93]

It's sad how he is ending his career... but no one should complain about his career with the Nets. Total class act.

[stevieming]

I totally disagree with you on Kobe's longevity. Yes, he has had good teammates. And yes he has played on the same team. That is going to help anyones career, I get that. But its really dumb to discredit his longevity because of those factors. Was he lucky to play for such a glorious franchise? Of course. But he is who he is because of how hard he has worked, and how dedicated he is to improve. Living in LA didnt make him have that drive and that dedication to be in top shape and be the best. That is all in your mind. I do not think its overhyped because it is the truth. He is still an elite player after 15 years because of his work ethic. Playing at this high level for this long and improving your game over the years is not the result of lucky factors such as playing for one team and getting good players to play with.

As much as I don't lik Kobe, you have to admit dude has moulded and worked on his game tirelessly. The fakes, jab steps, spacing, crazy mid range and long range, handles....dude worked on everything, where as VC's handles relied heavily on his first step and finish, one big dribble and some quick dribbles.....

Look at PP34's game, you know dude has so much arsenal it's untrue, where as VC doesn't have any true moves...

It's a shame, but I love air canada. Also to people say he would be a good fit in chicago, maybe - maybe not. For sure he is better then Bogans, but like many of the posters have stated, it's his attitude. You don't want it to rub off on team mates.

Too late now, but Westley Matthews would have been good for Chicago.