The Killing (AMC Remake)

[dunksby]

Anyone checked it out? It had a solid start IMO and Im looking forward to the next episode. They managed to create a great atmosphere and a bleak mood which fits the plot really well. Its a remake of an acclaimed Danish series.

[leopoldstotch]

i'm watching this show. i'm giving it at most 5 episodes to give a general answer about this show. i'm digging the first 2 so far.

[Thorpesaurous]

I was aggrivated I missed the first two episodes. I remember it being advertised during The Walking Dead. I was definitely interested, but AMC just doesn't do enough mainstream advertising. I actually got reminded of it because of a poster on train when I went to the Yankee game on Thursday. I was pissed because they don't re-air stuff very often either. But I noticed they were doing the first two episodes before tonights new one, and I just watched all three.

It's fan goddamned tastic. Again, this is straight in my wheelhouse, because I'm a big true crime reader. But so far, this is a great bit of storytelling. A genuine mystery being allowed to simmer slowly. It's like it's gonna be a ten hour episode of CSI.

It looks great. Grimy in all the right spots. And Seattle, if that's where they actually shot it, it's so green and wet. The acting was great for the first three episodes. The devastated mom who was MaryAnne in season two of True Blood was great. Every character they're just letting you feel the backstories leak out on. Linden's single mom status. The other cops family history. Jasper's running wild without much attention from the loaded dad. The politician's dead wife. His underhanded girlfriend. Hell, even the teacher feels like he's got something coming.

I'll say getting through the first half of that first episode was a little rough. But as often with the case in a good mystery, it's hard to set everything up without giving away anything.

But I strongly recommend this to anyone who cares about good tv.

[Black Joker]

i've liked it so far, i just wonder how long they are planning to run with it, is it going to be just like one or two seasons?

[El Kabong]

So it's kinda like a more normal version of Twin Peaks?

[leopoldstotch]

So it's kinda like a more normal version of Twin Peaks?

im not going that far until we start touching the topics at a deeper level. we haven't touched the surface of the killing and some back stories.

good episode tonight. one thing i really like so far is the intro song to the show. very mellow, yet chilling in a way.

[El Kabong]

im not going that far until we start touching the topics at a deeper level. we haven't touched the surface of the killing and some back stories.

good episode tonight. one thing i really like so far is the intro song to the show. very mellow, yet chilling in a way.
I'm only saying that based on the description I read which made it sound the same type of setup as Twin Peaks. I'll have to download the first couple of eps and check it out.

[leopoldstotch]

I'm only saying that based on the description I read which made it sound the same type of setup as Twin Peaks. I'll have to download the first couple of eps and check it out.

ok that's cool. just don't want you to have the twin peaks setting in your mind while you're watching the show. i think if you do, you are going to let yourself down, because you're going to be trying to look too much for something that isn't going to be there.

[El Kabong]

ok that's cool. just don't want you to have the twin peaks setting in your mind while you're watching the show. i think if you do, you are going to let yourself down, because you're going to be trying to look too much for something that isn't going to be there.
Yea, that's what I meant by a more "normal" version of it. Just the idea of the searching for a murderer of a young girl, the grieving family and each hour being a day sounds like TP to me.

[leopoldstotch]

Yea, that's what I meant by a more "normal" version of it. Just the idea of the searching for a murderer of a young girl, the grieving family and each hour being a day sounds like TP to me.


hmm true. ok you get a good idea of the basic storyline. like the above poster said, it's a good show. i'm not going to say i'm fully committing to the show until i get to episode 5. :lol

[dunksby]

Yea, that's what I meant by a more "normal" version of it. Just the idea of the searching for a murderer of a young girl, the grieving family and each hour being a day sounds like TP to me.
In a way its like Rubicon meets Twin Peaks.

[Thorpesaurous]

In terms of Theme, and story telling mechanics, it's like a bigger version of Mystic River. The large ensemble, the open ended suspects, young love gone wrong, hidden secrets from the past.

[bagelred]

I like it. A Murder Show that looks interesting to me.

Interesting....do people really like Murder/Detective/Crime shows? Seems kinda repetitive and brainless.....I bet they wouldn't do well. We know the average viewer is much smarter than that.


Hmmmmmmm...........I guess there are a few of those on television........like CSI or CSI Miami or CSI New York or Law Order or Law & Order: L.A. or Law&Order: SVU or Law&Order CI or NCIS or NCIS L.A. or Chicago Code or Hawii Five O or Castle or The Closer or Body of Proof or Criminal Minds or Criminal Minds: Suspect Behavior or The Mentalist or Bones or Burn Notice or Numbers or Fringe or Blue Bloods or CHAOS or Southland or The Shield or Cold Case or Leverage or Memphis Beat or Franklin and Bash or Fringe or The First 48 or Human Target or In Plain Sight or Justified or Lie To Me or Psych or Rizzoli & Isles or Saving Grace or The Glades or White Collar or Cops or America's Most Wanted.





I'll pass on those.



But I do like The Killing. :cheers:

[Thorpesaurous]

I like it. A Murder Show that looks interesting to me.

Interesting....do people really like Murder/Detective/Crime shows? Seems kinda repetitive and brainless.....I bet they wouldn't do well. We know the average viewer is much smarter than that.


Hmmmmmmm...........I guess there are a few of those on television........like CSI or CSI Miami or CSI New York or Law Order or Law & Order: L.A. or Law&Order: SVU or Law&Order CI or NCIS or NCIS L.A. or Chicago Code or Hawii Five O or Castle or The Closer or Body of Proof or Criminal Minds or Criminal Minds: Suspect Behavior or The Mentalist or Bones or Burn Notice or Numbers or Fringe or Blue Bloods or CHAOS or Southland or The Shield or Cold Case or Leverage or Memphis Beat or Franklin and Bash or Fringe or The First 48 or Human Target or In Plain Sight or Justified or Lie To Me or Psych or Rizzoli & Isles or Saving Grace or The Glades or White Collar or Cops or America's Most Wanted.





I'll pass on those.



But I do like The Killing. :cheers:


It's the more serial element. I used to watch CSI, but you really feel the pacing of those one hours after a while.

[SayTownRy]

pretty good show so far.

thinking the main politician is being set up (suspected him at first), but i'm sure that's just scratching the surface. something to do with his rival getting that expensive measure passed. no clue how the kids tie in besides helping to snatch up an easy target.

[dunksby]

My take on this episode in white due to spoiler
Im not feeling Richmond's assistance/girlfriend at all, she is clearly plotting and set up the loyal one to **** Richmond over even more.

[Black Joker]

what did everyone think about the last episode. i'm really digging this show now.

[Thorpesaurous]

I love this show. It's a great conversation piece. It's a shame more people aren't watching it. Would it kill AMC to run a quick marathon in here. A show like this needs word of mouth, and when it gets it, it's too late to catch up because they don't re-run nearly enough.

My one slight gripe in structure is that they end every show with a heavy angle on a suspect (which is a great trick, not unlike how True Blood ends all the time), but so far I'm sort of figuring that whoever they present will have to be cleared in the first act next week, or the show's gonna be awfull short. So now all week I'm talking to my friends who watch about how so and so can NOT be the guy.
I figured out that the video was of Sterling after a couple days.

[Black Joker]

I love this show. It's a great conversation piece. It's a shame more people aren't watching it. Would it kill AMC to run a quick marathon in here. A show like this needs word of mouth, and when it gets it, it's too late to catch up because they don't re-run nearly enough.

My one slight gripe in structure is that they end every show with a heavy angle on a suspect (which is a great trick, not unlike how True Blood ends all the time), but so far I'm sort of figuring that whoever they present will have to be cleared in the first act next week, or the show's gonna be awfull short. So now all week I'm talking to my friends who watch about how so and so can NOT be the guy.
I figured out that the video was of Sterling after a couple days.

i thought the dad subplot was interesting too, seems like they've given some history on just about everyone on the show except for the mom.

[Thorpesaurous]

i thought the dad subplot was interesting too, seems like they've given some history on just about everyone on the show except for the mom.


So they spent an episode on the janitor. An episode on the boyfriend and the tweaker. Now an episode coming on the teacher. And while they do this, they hint at other's backgrounds. The question will be weather they can keep from ruling out some more of these suspects as they weave around their main story arc.

For example, like the father could've made a reasonable suspect, but does the effect her death had on his buying that house cause a problem with his being a suspect down the line? (I would've bought the story that he's got some racist background, caught her with the black teacher, and snapped on her (thus negating any forthought toward the house), but the binding of her arms, and the fact that she was drowned alive, to me rule out a straight killing of passion in the moment by an angry father).

[Stinky Dog]

I've got to check out this show. It's right up my alley as well and sounds awesome from what I've read in here along with heaps of critical acclaim. I will probably just wait for the season to end and do a lengthy marathon.

[bada bing]

i just like the entire atmosphere of the show. the rainy, dark, slow atmosphere is just interesting and adds to the show.

[pete's montreux]

never thought marlo would watch a show on amc, didnt you rant to me once that you would never watch a show on anything other than a movie channel? i remember telling you how awesome house was

anyways, i watched the first ep but im going to hold off and wait until after the playoffs to watch the rest

[Stinky Dog]

never thought marlo would watch a show on amc, didnt you rant to me once that you would never watch a show on anything other than a movie channel? i remember telling you how awesome house was

anyways, i watched the first ep but im going to hold off and wait until after the playoffs to watch the rest
never? some of my favorite shows ever ran on network television (twin peaks, xfiles, twilight zone, homicide, etc).

i may have said that 95% of network television is garbage and I don't currently subscribe to any at the time...although i do watch some now.

[Black Joker]

that teacher is one suspicious guy...

[Thorpesaurous]

Yeah, they didn't really clear the teacher, so this one is gonna carry over at least another episode. I hope they leave a bunch of characters hanging at once as the show comes to an end, and it's really an open question right down to the wire. The teacher is in a perfect spot now where there's neither enough evidence to convict him or clear him, and he could hang like that for a while.

[dunksby]

Guys, what do you think of Larson's assistant? He has unlimited access to the house, understood from the bed sheet scene, he has a criminal record which is probably organized crime related. Plus we now know that the killer is a pro or at least knows what he is doing.

[Thorpesaurous]

Guys, what do you think of Larson's assistant? He has unlimited access to the house, understood from the bed sheet scene, he has a criminal record which is probably organized crime related. Plus we now know that the killer is a pro or at least knows what he is doing.


He's also pretty eager to get retribution, which may be a way of trying to pin it on someone else, at least in the eyes of the father.

I'm sure he'll have his moment of absolutely being THE suspect, like the other guys they've done so far, but I don't think they've given us enough information to tell us who it is even if he/she has been introduced.

I look forward to seeing where they go with the guy cop. They've sniffed around his being pretty fishy too, but him being the guy would be way too gimmicky in my opinion, unless they do something with the arc that I just can't see at all. But I keep remembering that shot early in episode 1 where they're driving by some girl on the street and they're at a stop light and for some reason he flips her the bird. His connection to youth culture is at least as creepy as the teachers.

They did sort of stall this week on the investigation. They introduced the teacher at the end of the previous week, but they really didn't push his narrative much this week in either direction. A little bit with the chemicals, and they introduced his wife, which I guess further incriminates him a bit, but never enough to fully resolve him like they did Jasper and the Janitor.

[Jackass18]

I love this show. It's a great conversation piece. It's a shame more people aren't watching it. Would it kill AMC to run a quick marathon in here. A show like this needs word of mouth, and when it gets it, it's too late to catch up because they don't re-run nearly enough.

My one slight gripe in structure is that they end every show with a heavy angle on a suspect (which is a great trick, not unlike how True Blood ends all the time), but so far I'm sort of figuring that whoever they present will have to be cleared in the first act next week, or the show's gonna be awfull short. So now all week I'm talking to my friends who watch about how so and so can NOT be the guy.
I figured out that the video was of Sterling after a couple days.

Someone might be 'cleared' in one episode, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they're not the person or didn't have anything to do with it.

I got caught up on On Demand, but they only have the first 4 episodes, so I guess I shouldn't read any further in this thread.

[Thorpesaurous]

Someone might be 'cleared' in one episode, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they're not the person or didn't have anything to do with it.

I got caught up on On Demand, but they only have the first 4 episodes, so I guess I shouldn't read any further in this thread.


To me they've all out cleared the Janitor, and really the Jasper and the tweaker too. I'd like them to start leaving some of the suspects a little more open ended, which it seems like they're getting at with Bennett.

AMC doesn't have any On Demand with my ATnT. I wish it did. I'd try to get into some of their other stuff, like Mad Men and Breaking Bad.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

I doubt its Bennett

[bagelred]

Great show. Like I said before, I hate every single one of the 800 crime shows on TV, but I do like this alot. The serial nature of it, and the character development is very good.

AMC wins again. I really liked Walking Dead too.

[leopoldstotch]

so i gave this show 5 episodes. my take on it? the storylines do tend to extend a bit too long, and i don't like some of the characters (like rosie's parents for example. a bit too dull for my taste, especially with the death of their daughter). however, i do like the direction of where this show is going, and it's interweaving storylines. i'm sticking with this show until the end.

one of my hunches is rosie's older brother denny knows something that could be revealed in an episode or two. he looks like he's holding back a secret. bennett "looks" too guilty to be the killer. i like the ending how he's holding his hands up with darren richmond. that was a good close to the episode.

[Jackass18]

To me they've all out cleared the Janitor, and really the Jasper and the tweaker too. I'd like them to start leaving some of the suspects a little more open ended, which it seems like they're getting at with Bennett.

Didn't they say the Janitor was in the drunk tank during the weekend, but couldn't that still leave Friday or am I forgetting something? The kids still seem suspicious, though I haven't seen the 5th episode yet so maybe they're cleared there or I'm forgetting something. They seem suspicious. I believe one of them was rather relieved and said something like "That's all you have on us?"


AMC doesn't have any On Demand with my ATnT. I wish it did. I'd try to get into some of their other stuff, like Mad Men and Breaking Bad.

I have Fios, but episodes don't stay up long on there. They only have 4 episodes of Mad Men on there.

[Thorpesaurous]

Didn't they say the Janitor was in the drunk tank during the weekend, but couldn't that still leave Friday or am I forgetting something? The kids still seem suspicious, though I haven't seen the 5th episode yet so maybe they're cleared there or I'm forgetting something. They seem suspicious. I believe one of them was rather relieved and said something like "That's all you have on us?"



I have Fios, but episodes don't stay up long on there. They only have 4 episodes of Mad Men on there.


I'm like 20 miles away from the Fios line so I'm SOL.

The Janitor's time in the drunk tank overlaps the time of death, so he's out. The kids they could still come back to I suppose. But the story was that Rosie left them at the dance before they went down to the cage, so they sort of lost contact. Technically they may not be cleared, but I'd say they're out of the mix at this point as far as the story arch goes.

I sort of agree with Leopold that some of the characters are a bit dry at this point, but I think that's a side effect of trying to keep so much secret at the moment. Rosie's parents will have their chance to flourish once they get into the father's history more. It seems like they have to keep the characters just at the surface enough to let the plot run, until it's their turn to be a focol point of the investigation.

[johndeeregreen]

It's like it's gonna be a ten hour episode of CSI.

Uh, what?

CSI is...beyond horrific. This series is phenomenal thus far.

[Thorpesaurous]

Uh, what?

CSI is...beyond horrific. This series is phenomenal thus far.


None of those shows would be so bad if they weren't cramming the exact same ABC three act story arcs into the same hour every week.

Serial television is often the best work, but it's got some serious flaws from a production perspective. These shows can almost only go down in viewership. It's extremely difficult to get new viewers on board once the ship has sailed. I can't imagine they sell well in syndication.

I'm dying to see what happens to lost in syndication.

[bagelred]

Psyched for another Killing tonight. I just love Killings. Can't go a Sunday night without a Killing. You have a Killing, I say "sign me up!"







Another joke milked for all it's worth. :pimp:

[Jackass18]

It sucks that they're so slow to put episodes up.

[Black Joker]

wow, well this Ep definitely put a lot of things into motion

[Thorpesaurous]

Yeah, to me it seems like they're gonna be hard pressed to not make Bennett and his wife the killer at this point from everything they've shown. But I still have a sneaking suspicion they won't be. I'm afraid they're gonna have to do something rediculous to get them cleared though.

Either that or the show has just taken a massive turn from this ongoing investigation, to now a hunt against time for Bennett and the father, which I'm still not thrilled with. I'd rather the investigation kept moving from character to character, I don't want this to be it for trying to figure out who did it after 5 episodes. There's only 13 in the season.

[dunksby]

Great episode!
Thoughts: The teacher is not the killer but there is no way in hell he aint an accessory now. I believe Stan is gonna take Bennet to where they found Rosie and kill him there which is gonna hinder the detective work and make it much harder to find the real killer and ultimately that is what we will have for the rest of the season.

My grand theory: Rosie gets involved with Bennet too much that it endangers his marriage and reputation, he is an important part of Darren's All-star program. Gwen's dad is informed so he orders that the matter should be taken care of by any means-Charles Widmore anyone?- necessary, enter Polish mob to take care of business. Royce-Stan's colleague- is offered the job which he accepts since he is broke like Stan(remember Stan's exchange with the mob boss). Rosie shows up at Bennet's place, shit goes wrong and Royce is asked to step in and make it right, not knowing his to be victim, he hesitates which gives Rosie time to run away and we all know what happened next.

[Loneshot]

Nothing original about it for me. Very boring.

[dunksby]

Nothing original about it for me. Very boring.
I always knew our parallel universe was the smarter one with better taste.

[Jackass18]

I get the feeling that one of her family members is involved somehow, but not sure if directly or indirectly.

[RedBagel]

Did anyone notice during one scene, before they showed Darren his new commercial spot, that Jamie and Gwen shared a look at each other, where she smiled? Anyone know what I'm talking about? It was played off as sort of "this is all ridiculous" moment of acknowledgement.....but maybe the two of them are working together and are "playing" Darren for some reason. As if they are working together somehow? We already were established that Gwen sleeps around, as with that scene with the commercial director.

Just a thought. Darren keeps saying he trusts Jamie so much. Maybe he's really being played by the both of them.

[dunksby]

Did anyone notice during one scene, before they showed Darren his new commercial spot, that Jamie and Gwen shared a look at each other, where she smiled? Anyone know what I'm talking about? It was played off as sort of "this is all ridiculous" moment of acknowledgement.....but maybe the two of them are working together and are "playing" Darren for some reason. As if they are working together somehow? We already were established that Gwen sleeps around, as with that scene with the commercial director.

Just a thought. Darren keeps saying he trusts Jamie so much. Maybe he's really being played by the both of them.
Could be true, but I got the feeling that Jamie was giving her an I still remember what you did look. She was the one who acted like a ***** and dropped that one liner which sent Jamie out of the door cursing.

[Thorpesaurous]

Once again, a great cliffhanger.

I'm glad it's not Bennett, and the investigation can keep moving along. I wish it they did more digging into the characters we've already been introduced to. Instead they come up with some new Muslim guy that we've never seen or heard of. I like the idea of it being everything having been right under our noses the whole time. It's sort of "cheating" to me in the writing if they're just gonna create an entirely new character to bail them out of the hole they're in, but I suppose it's gotta happen at least once.

It seems like the Mitch/Royce/ going after Bennett is now going to take over as a completely different subplot. Not unlike whatever's going on with the politicians, and particularly the dead wife. They're not completely related to the case, but they're interesting non the less.

I really want to know more about Holder and what is obviously a closet full of skeletons.

[Jackass18]

I always thought Bennett would have been too obvious. I have suspicions towards Royce, but he'll probably be cleared soon, and I should probably wait until the next episode, which looks rather interesting.

[pete's montreux]

Ok I'm catching up on it now. I have not read the thread, I'm on ep 5 and I'm wondering if anyone else thought it was really weird how the funeral director was talking to her parents? He keeps enunciating "DAUGHter" in an odd way.

We've all been to funerals, and I've never met or have seen a FD talk to a family in that way. I might just be over-analyzing but it just stuck me as odd.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

this shows just gets better and better

[Black Joker]

holy crap that was an intense episode

[Jackass18]

Great episode. I hope they don't make Bennett the killer in the end.

[Black Joker]

Great episode. I hope they don't make Bennett the killer in the end.
so right now i have absolutely no clue who did it.

an aside, i thought the dads coworker was acting kinda strange

[Jackass18]

I'm suspicious of Royce, but he'll probably get cleared next episode. I'm thinking going back and watching the early episodes would help, but I'm not going to do that as of yet.

[Black Joker]

I'm suspicious of Royce, but he'll probably get cleared next episode. I'm thinking going back and watching the early episodes would help, but I'm not going to do that as of yet.
if they clear royce, we're really running out of suspects unless it is someone we'd never even hazard a guess

[Jackass18]

Well, Royce has been my top suspect for a while, but I'm doubting it'll be him. Outside of him, I can only throw out some crazy guesses at this time, though.

[Thorpesaurous]

Yeah, right now, Royce has to be the prime suspect in the audiences eyes. Two kickers last night were him going absolutely off at the end while Larson beat the hell out of Bennett. He was punching a giant rock in the background, and just showing a sense of relief that was not normal. Second was the way he looked at the little girl on the bike. That could be played off as him seeing Larson fathering a young girl and silently remembering him with Rosie, or it could be more sinister.

Other than that, I'm not sure there's anyone we've been introduced to for whom we've been given enough evidence to venture a real guess at.

I feel like a real real longshot would be Richmond, only because we've now seen him break down a couple times. My only guess on him would be that somehow he hit Rosie while driving drunk in a campaign car, reminiscing about his lost wife, and in a panic trunked her and decided to dump the car in the lake. I have this odd memory from that first episode of Jamie and girl wondering where Richmond was that first morning, then the girl giving him his watch as he caught up with them, but getting the sense that while they were sleeping together, she too didn't really know where he was last night.

Absolute longshot, but at least I can envision a plot for it. I can't see any genuine way to tie in either of the parents at this point.

The class getting up and walking out Bennett with the Killer written on his whiteboard was great stuff.

[bagelred]

Well, Royce has been my top suspect for a while, but I'm doubting it'll be him. Outside of him, I can only throw out some crazy guesses at this time, though.

Royce seems too obvious at the moment. He's obviously mentally unstable, but we all knew that.

Is Bennett Ahmed dead? Was it purposely left vague?

It's like we are back to square 1 with the investigation. Clearly, the murder investigation has to link up stronger with the mayoral campaign, otherwise, why are they even showing that election storyline?

[Thorpesaurous]

Royce seems too obvious at the moment. He's obviously mentally unstable, but we all knew that.

Is Bennett Ahmed dead? Was it purposely left vague?

It's like we are back to square 1 with the investigation. [B]Clearly, the murder investigation has to link up stronger with the mayoral campaign, otherwise, why are they even showing that storyline?


I've had that same feeling for a while. It feels like too heavy a straight b-plot, other than it's affected Richmond's campaign. And now we're all of ten days out, and it doesn't seem to be an issue in the campaign anymore. It's illegitimate kids, and Somali hate crimes, and building campaigns that have taken over the race.

[bagelred]

Using TV/Movie logic, the killer will probably end up being someone who's just "there" in the story, not serving a real purpose right now.

One such character is the aunt. She's just kind of there. As if she'll have a stronger purpose later in the series. Killer?


One basic idea that keeps coming back to me is that Darren had an affair with Rosie. Darren is being built up as such a good guy, I think they are setting us up for a fall. Jamie finds out about it somehow, and without Darren knowing, "takes care" of Rosie, knowing that if the underage affair came out, it would ruin Darren's mayoral chances. We know Jamie will do anything to win that campaign. Seems too easy but that's what keeps popping up in my head.

[Thorpesaurous]

Using TV/Movie logic, the killer will probably end up being someone who's just "there" in the story, not serving a real purpose right now.

One such character is the aunt. She's just kind of there. As if she'll have a stronger purpose later in the series. Killer?


One basic idea that keeps coming back to me is that Darren had an affair with Rosie. Darren is being built up as such a good guy, I think they are setting us up for a fall. Jamie finds out about it somehow, and without Darren knowing, "takes care" of Rosie, knowing that if the underage affair came out, it would ruin Darren's mayoral chances. We know Jamie will do anything to win that campaign. Seems too easy but that's what keeps popping up in my head.

That's crossed my mind too. That moment I was talking about with the watch in that first episode, I remember her saying something about "going to see the girl". I wish I still had that episode recorded. There's something in that initial exchange that makes me think that both Darren and the chick at the very least know something. And last nights pressure about the car usage records from Linden seems to be a tip. It's been all muslims then all of sudden she shows back up interjecting the case into their campaign again.

(Isn't the little blond guy campaign manager Jamie, or is it her? I can't keep the names straight there for some reason.)

[bagelred]

(Isn't the little blond guy campaign manager Jamie, or is it her? I can't keep the names straight there for some reason.)

I had to look it up too, as I keep forgetting. Jamie Is the young blonde haired guy. Gwen is his campaign advisor he's sleeping with. Rosie is the dead girl.

[Thorpesaurous]

I had to look it up too, as I keep forgetting. Jamie Is the young blonde haired guy. Gwen is his campaign advisor he's sleeping with. Rosie is the dead girl.


The Rosie I got. The Jamie/Gwen thing I keep screwing up. Jamie is too gender nuetral a name for a TV show.

As I'm reading Game of Thrones, I've noticed that a couple characters in the book are named Robert, after the king, but in the show they've changed one to Robb (Ned Stark's son), and the other to Robyn, seemingly just for the sake of clarity.

Rarely are there multiple people in a TV show with the same name, however in real life, there's a million Mikes.

[Jackass18]

I feel like a real real longshot would be Richmond, only because we've now seen him break down a couple times.

Yeah, he's one of my longshots, too. He walks a high moral ground, but maybe it's out of guilt. The death of his wife has obviously affected him. Maybe he snapped on the girl. I don't know, it just doesn't quite seem to fit him, though.


My only guess on him would be that somehow he hit Rosie while driving drunk in a campaign car, reminiscing about his lost wife, and in a panic trunked her and decided to dump the car in the lake.

There's a scene where Rosie is desperately fleeing in the woods from the killer.

[Jackass18]

It's like we are back to square 1 with the investigation. Clearly, the murder investigation has to link up stronger with the mayoral campaign, otherwise, why are they even showing that election storyline?

The mayor is another of my longshots. He seems shady. Maybe he had a relationship with Rosie like he did with one of his interns. Perhaps, he killed the girl or had someone do it while leaving a link to Richmond's campaign that would hurt it. I took a look at his bio page and it makes him sound even more suspicious: http://www.amctv.com/shows/the-killing/cast/lesley-adams

[Thorpesaurous]

Yeah, he's one of my longshots, too. He walks a high moral ground, but maybe it's out of guilt. The death of his wife has obviously affected him. Maybe he snapped on the girl. I don't know, it just doesn't quite seem to fit him, though.



There's a scene where Rosie is desperately fleeing in the woods from the killer.


I forgot about that opening scene with Rosie running. Maybe it's her getting away from Richmond briefly. Seems unlikely though, you're right.

I don't get the impression that Rosie would be involved with the mayor. Richmond makes some sense because Rosie comes off as an idealistic dreamer, as in whatever her relationship with Bennett was, he's sort of the idealist change the world teacher, not unlike Richmond the idealist politician, whereas the mayor is a ruthless pragmatist.

I'm not inclined to think he'd kill her to ruin Richmond's campaign either. It's a lot to do to make such a circumstantial dent in a case. If you're going to go to the trouble of killing someone to win an election, you'd probably just kill the guy you're running against, not some non-descript HS volunteer who can be vaguely associated to his campaign. Plus it would make the character pure evil, and one of the best characteristics of the show is that all the characters are pretty fully developed, which is part of what makes it hard to figure out who the bad guy is, because everyone has bits of good guy and bad guy.

[Jackass18]

I'm not saying it wouldn't be contrived. I'm not saying he had it planned out all along. Perhaps he had a relationship with Rosie or maybe he made advances on her and she was going to come out about it. He had her killed to silence her and decided on linking it to Richmond's campaign by using one of his campaign cars.

Ahh, it's just one of my wild guesses kind of like the father (he has a shady past and is capable of killing, but he doesn't seem to fit at all) and the aunt (perhaps she did it to get back at her sister for something, but that's wild speculation. There's nothing that really connects her currently). I'm looking for a motive and if Bennett is clear, then is there really someone with a motive that doesn't involve quite a bit of speculation at this point?

[dunksby]

Last Episode's moral message: ******* just **** shit up!

[Jackass18]

Interesting episode

What is the key for at the casino?
Who did she meet on the Adela?
Who has a link to the casino?
Maybe it's that rich guy's casino?

Belko - Wants to be a part of the family. He's a liar, but he seems too obvious now like how it was with Bennet. Still though, he said he was upstairs and didn't hear her until she came in the house, but the video shows the front porch light going off when Rosie was dropped off by the cab.
Terry (the aunt) - Why did they skip over her like she couldn't have done anything? Them skipping over her and not giving her much attention makes her seem suspicious. Maybe there's something between her and Belko.
Jamie and Gwen - Didn't seem to care that Bennet was beaten, and they want to hide the link between Rosie and Richmond.
Richmond - Another connection between him and Rosie. I still don't think it's him, though.

Another thought: what if it ended up being Bennet in the end? Not a bad way to go.

[Charlie Sheen]

no one thinks the fiance can be involved after he was reintroduced back into the story this ep?

[Jackass18]

He could be involved, but I don't see a motive. What is the angle?

[Charlie Sheen]

He could be involved, but I don't see a motive. What is the angle?

dont have nothing good for motive... just the way the show went back to being about linden this week. her character hasnt been fleshed out yet. regi is just there without any backstory to her and rick appears this week. i need to go watch the early eps with rick to see if i missed anything. im just blowing smoke but it could tie into the me saying the killer was a pro definitely done this before and thats why there wasnt much backstory to their relationship when they met or why theyre moving to california

holder is an awesome character but did anyone else feel like the writers ripped that whole chunk of linden follwing him going to aa meetings off from dexter and doakes?

[Thorpesaurous]

That was a great episode. Especially after I felt they lingered a bit on Ahmed. I really felt like they painted themself into a corner with him, and they got out in an extremely odd way, there was no way to see the terrorist/FBI/Female circumcision story line coming around, and while it worked, it still doesn't feel entirely natural to me.

I thought the pursuit of Belko was handled perfectly. It used what we knew about him. Expanded on his bizarre nature, and with the name adele coming up again, it gave me a simple, plausible reason to believe his story about not being the guy. I found his entire pursuit, and eventually being cleared, and the reasons behind both, to feel very real.

It seems like they're closing in on the candidate here. The way they lingered on that shot of him shaking hands with her, the way Gwen looked at it, makes it seem like he's the next one they're going to paint, weather he winds up being the guy or not, but they're running low on episodes. My problem with Richmond as the guy is that we've seen so much of him, and yet he's maintained a completely calm face on the subject, and been very focused on his campaign. With the way he deals with his wifes past, and the childrens program, he comes across as too thoughtfull to not have been torn up by this. We didn't see behind Bennett's doors until after he was a suspect, at which point he became defensive, which felt natural. The same is not true of Richmond. I know it would be giving away the secret, but if it does turn out to be him, I will have sort of wished they had kept him more private up to that point.

I do agree that the Aunt seems like she could warrant more looking into. And I could see the Richmond investigation splintering off to either Gwen or Jamie and them winding up being killer. Jamie's high energy motor and anything to get what he wants attitude toward his job gives me a weird vibe at this point anyway.

The whole thing has really been a great TV experience.

[JtotheIzzo]

Not sure who it is yet, but now that it looks like something happened at the Casino I think there are a few people we need to consider.

Drexler (the guy who donates the large sums of money), though this doesn't explain the car (unless he paid someone to use it).

The Mayor, or someone on his staff (maybe that dude that was taunting Jamie in an earlier episode). He is after all sexually charged and into cover-ups.

[bagelred]

One part of Sunday's episode had me rolling my eyes.

It took them that many days to check on cab companies to see if Rosie took a cab when she left Ahmed? Really? They could have cleared Ahmed right away and he wouldn't have been beaten to almost-death. They would have figured out Rosie went back home.

That part of the story was a little weak.....

Also, wouldn't you think the father of two little boys wouldn't commit attempted murder so he could....you know....provide for his family? :confusedshrug: He's doing some significant time in jail no matter what happens to Ahmed.....

[Thorpesaurous]

One part of Sunday's episode had me rolling my eyes.

It took them that many days to check on cab companies to see if Rosie took a cab when she left Ahmed? Really? They could have cleared Ahmed right away and he wouldn't have been beaten to almost-death. They would have figured out Rosie went back home.

That part of the story was a little weak.....

Also, wouldn't you think the father of two little boys wouldn't commit attempted murder so he could....you know....provide for his family? :confusedshrug: He's doing some significant time in jail no matter what happens to Ahmed.....


I had a bit of an issue with the cab too. But not so much what you're talking about. When they were looking into Ahmed, they never really thought about how she got outta there, because they figured it was in the trunk of the car. They never figured she went home. It seemed to never cross her mind. My issue was that they didn't go further into the gruff cab driver. Why wasn't he questioned?

Also, because of the stress of the situation, I can live with the notion of the father snapping.

[Rekindled]

One part of Sunday's episode had me rolling my eyes.

It took them that many days to check on cab companies to see if Rosie took a cab when she left Ahmed? Really? They could have cleared Ahmed right away and he wouldn't have been beaten to almost-death. They would have figured out Rosie went back home.

That part of the story was a little weak.....

Also, wouldn't you think the father of two little boys wouldn't commit attempted murder so he could....you know....provide for his family? :confusedshrug: He's doing some significant time in jail no matter what happens to Ahmed.....

well they thought ahmed killed rosie , so why would they bother checking if she took a cab after she left ahmed's.

[B]

Not sure who it is yet, but now that it looks like something happened at the Casino I think there are a few people we need to consider.

Drexler (the guy who donates the large sums of money), though this doesn't explain the car (unless he paid someone to use it).

The Mayor, or someone on his staff (maybe that dude that was taunting Jamie in an earlier episode). He is after all sexually charged and into cover-ups.
The Casino is in play. In her class project video there's a part where the Casino sign is reflected in a puddle of water so she's been there before

[Thorpesaurous]

[QUOTE=B

[B]

Also, the logo for the casino is the keychain to that set of keys they found on her body. That Casino is very probably the scene of the abduction.There's a theme to this show around flight also. She has butterflies all over her room, The casino logo is the bird, there's also a plane flying over in her student video and the candidate has a plane on his desk.

[Thorpesaurous]

[QUOTE=B

[B]

Linden keeps missing her plane.


I think the preview for next weeks looks awesome. Linden starting to break down is fascinating to me, and they briefly show her snap at somebody in the preview for next weeks.
That grunge/punk kid that used to be Rosies neighbor, what was the financial problems that forced his family to move?

[Thorpesaurous]

[QUOTE=B

[pete's montreux]

The last episode if the first time the show has tried to force something down our throats. The scene where they figure out someone was in the house by the light going on and off, then they run down the list of who has a key. The VERY next scene involves the aunt. It just screams "we want you to think It's aunt, here SHE'S RIGHT HERE LOOK"

Yuck. Now I'm utterly convinced it wasn't her.

[Thorpesaurous]

The last episode if the first time the show has tried to force something down our throats. The scene where they figure out someone was in the house by the light going on and off, then they run down the list of who has a key. The VERY next scene involves the aunt. It just screams "we want you to think It's aunt, here SHE'S RIGHT HERE LOOK"

Yuck. Now I'm utterly convinced it wasn't her.


I didn't really read it that way. I felt like they'd sort of fed us Balko for a few episodes, in a more subtle way than they did Bennett, but enough, that I felt like they were using the aunt to finish painting him. Her little speech about talking to him being like talking to table, and him just being him a little off, and they needed someone to say that he had access to the house. They couldn't go to Stan where he was, and they couldn't use Mich without her character breaking down or exploding in some capacity or another.

[pete's montreux]

Well they haven't focused on her at all so far, not even once I don't think. And then there's that really obvious sequence and you know everyone who was watching went: Oh, the aunt!

[Thorpesaurous]

I was a little bothered that they never called Balko out on his creepy Rosie cieling mastabatory collage.

They never showed his mother either, but after about ten seconds of being introduced to her and her talking about her lil man, you could've simply arrested her with no evidence and I'dve been fine with it.

[pete's montreux]

I was a little bothered that they never called Balko out on his creepy Rosie cieling mastabatory collage.

They never showed his mother either, but after about ten seconds of being introduced to her and her talking about her lil man, you could've simply arrested her with no evidence and I'dve been fine with it.

:oldlol:

Yeah, and the way he stuttered over the word "sexy" while being interrogated.

I tried frantically pressing triangle on my imaginary PS3 controller. DOUBT DOUBT

[Thorpesaurous]

:oldlol:

Yeah, and the way he stuttered over the word "sexy" while being interrogated.

I tried frantically pressing triangle on my imaginary PS3 controller. DOUBT DOUBT


:roll:

If you had a picture you could've just called it out a lie.

"She's always warin at Sexy stuff ... I tell her she shud put some close on!"

Ugh ... that was one of the most uncomfortable scenes I can remember recently.

I liked how Linden was sort of flirting with him while she was interrogating him. The way she sat up on the table next to him. Talked to him in that whisper. I find her way more hosable than her purely physical stature would constitute, in which she's actually bordering between plain and homely.

[pete's montreux]

She looked f*ckable in the first ep when she came out of the shower. I'd hit it.

[Jackass18]

The last episode if the first time the show has tried to force something down our throats. The scene where they figure out someone was in the house by the light going on and off, then they run down the list of who has a key. The VERY next scene involves the aunt. It just screams "we want you to think It's aunt, here SHE'S RIGHT HERE LOOK"

Yuck. Now I'm utterly convinced it wasn't her.

Belko's story doesn't quite match up to me. In the video, the front porch light turns off as Rosie's being dropped off indicating that the person saw her being dropped off, but Belko said that he didn't know she was home until he heard her coming up the stairs.

[pete's montreux]

Belko's story doesn't quite match up to me. In the video, the front porch light turns off as Rosie's being dropped off indicating that the person saw her being dropped off, but Belko said that he didn't know she was home until he heard her coming up the stairs.

Nice catch.

Belko seems like he gets off being a sub.

[Jackass18]

My top 5 suspects:

Belko - Creepy guy with a creepy mother who wanted to be a part of the Larsen family. I know the signs are starting to point away from him, but I've still got some suspicions towards him. Perhaps he had a thing with Terry and they were in on it together.

Terry - They skipped over her in the past episode and that made her look more suspicious. Have they mentioned her whereablouts that night? I'm not saying she really did it, but was perhaps involved.

Richmond - I decided that I should consider him more, though I don't really want to put him up here. I can't ignore the connections. Some people wonder why the show has dedicated so much time to him and use that as a reason to think he's the killer, but that makes me think he's not the killer. Maybe the death of his wife made him a bit unstable, and perhaps he snapped and killed the girl or she was going to reveal something that was going to crush Richmond, so she had to be stopped.

Bennet - Well, they pushed all the signs towards him and then they seemed to vindicate him. Perhaps that was the red herring.

Drexler - He could afford to buy Rosie those expensive shoes, and maybe he has a connection to the casino. I kind of hope it's not him because he's barely gotten any screen time.

The mayor's screen time has faded away, and so has my suspicions towards him. I know he could very well get some screen time coming up in future episodes, but I don't see a reason to suspect him currently.

It seems to point to that Rosie was secretly seeing some guy. I'm hoping it's not someone who's barely gotten any screen time like Gwen's dad or Jasper's dad (Terry might have hooked up with him, which would make him a more relevant character).

[Thorpesaurous]

Belko's story doesn't quite match up to me. In the video, the front porch light turns off as Rosie's being dropped off indicating that the person saw her being dropped off, but Belko said that he didn't know she was home until he heard her coming up the stairs.


That is a good catch. Plus, she arrived home in a cab, pulling up beyond the house. How would he even know she was in the cab. It seems like whoever turned the light off would've almost have to have been expecting her.

[Thorpesaurous]

My top 5 suspects:

Belko - Creepy guy with a creepy mother who wanted to be a part of the Larsen family. I know the signs are starting to point away from him, but I've still got some suspicions towards him. Perhaps he had a thing with Terry and they were in on it together.

Terry - They skipped over her in the past episode and that made her look more suspicious. Have they mentioned her whereablouts that night? I'm not saying she really did it, but was perhaps involved.

Richmond - I decided that I should consider him more, though I don't really want to put him up here. I can't ignore the connections. Some people wonder why the show has dedicated so much time to him and use that as a reason to think he's the killer, but that makes me think he's not the killer. Maybe the death of his wife made him a bit unstable, and perhaps he snapped and killed the girl or she was going to reveal something that was going to crush Richmond, so she had to be stopped.

Bennet - Well, they pushed all the signs towards him and then they seemed to vindicate him. Perhaps that was the red herring.

Drexler - He could afford to buy Rosie those expensive shoes, and maybe he has a connection to the casino. I kind of hope it's not him because he's barely gotten any screen time.

The mayor's screen time has faded away, and so has my suspicions towards him. I know he could very well get some screen time coming up in future episodes, but I don't see a reason to suspect him currently.

It seems to point to that Rosie was secretly seeing some guy. I'm hoping it's not someone who's barely gotten any screen time like Gwen's dad or Jasper's dad (Terry might have hooked up with him, which would make him a more relevant character).


Excellent list. I haven't really considered Drexler, but with a hotel casino involved, he becomes more likely. I sort of like Jamie for it too. He hasn't been given enough screen time for me to think he wouldn't fit, like Richmond, who would make for a good finish to the story, but his character just seems like it would break down under the stress of keeping that secret, I don't get the feeling he could keep that under wraps while still making a big deal about some goddamned shooting stars program. Jamie on the other hand is all intense focus and I could feel his character snapping as a manner of venting with some young girl who he met who works on this campaign. We've seen that he can be decietfull, and that he has a temper, and that he's not above playing dirty.

[Charlie Sheen]

Richmond - I decided that I should consider him more, though I don't really want to put him up here. I can't ignore the connections. Some people wonder why the show has dedicated so much time to him and use that as a reason to think he's the killer, but that makes me think he's not the killer. Maybe the death of his wife made him a bit unstable, and perhaps he snapped and killed the girl or she was going to reveal something that was going to crush Richmond, so she had to be stopped.



richmond feels like he's never been there as a suspect. stuff like the car and ahmed feel like his character represents the murders impact on other peoples lives. the story of his campaign shows the investigation isnt some neatly contained process ... display of the collateral damage on personal professional life a greater scale than ahmed's story ended with.

just my .02

[Jackass18]

I sort of like Jamie for it too. We've seen that he can be decietfull, and that he has a temper, and that he's not above playing dirty.

I actually had him on my list, but decided to take him off in favor of Drexler.

[Jackass18]

richmond feels like he's never been there as a suspect. stuff like the car and ahmed feel like his character represents the murders impact on other peoples lives. the story of his campaign shows the investigation isnt some neatly contained process ... display of the collateral damage on personal professional life a greater scale than ahmed's story ended with.

just my .02

Yeah, that's kind of how I saw it, but also on the other hand, maybe we're seeing the subsequent days through the eyes of the killer in Richmond.

Story-wise, I think that Richmond or Bennet would make for the best choice at this point.

[Thorpesaurous]

I actually had him on my list, but decided to take him off in favor of Drexler.


Jamie also gives you the connection to the Richmond campaign without it actually being Richmond, which I really just can't buy based on the persona they've created for him. Unless we find out more about his wife, and it becomes more likely he somehow snapped, but he's so bleeding heart and comes off as so virtuistic and idealistic, I just don't know if I can buy him as committing this crime then not showing some sign of meltdown from guilt while he's under all this campaign stress.

I could Jamie maybe getting with Rosie in some capacity, being spotted by somebody, then thinking it'll come back to destroy Richmond's campaign, and he's so career oriented, that he winds up killing her to cover it up.

Right now, I think that's my best guess.

I feel like Rosie's hot too. It's gotta suck for an actress to catch this breakout role, and she's dead the entire time.

[dunksby]

The killer is one of the butt hurt Sonics fans on ISH who preys on Thunder fans in Seattle.

[Thorpesaurous]

The killer is one of the butt hurt Sonics fans on ISH who preys on Thunder fans in Seattle.

RanierBeachPoet? Is he one of those religious fanatic killers who's piety is a way of dealing with his heinous crimes.

I have to admit, they mention Ranier Beach on there occasionally, and I can't hear it without thinking of RBP for some reason. Same when they mention it during basketball games. I think it was Louisville/The Nets Terrence Williams who was an RB native, and they'd occasionally mention it during games. Jason Terry may be as well.

[Thorpesaurous]

That was a great episode. Even without the case going anywhere really. I mean there was the first sequence at the casino where Linden got the boot and went after the ATMs. Then the closing sequence where Holder spotted her on the ATM footage. But other than those two bookends, which were really just the close to last weeks and the start to next weeks respectively, the show really started to look into it's investigators the way they've looked into everyone else. And now they've given us a slight intro to Jack's father that may be someone interesting (not case wise, just in general).

Linden opening up was brutal to watch. Obviously she has reasons for her reserved, tough chick routine, which made it hard to watch that facade fall apart while Jack was missing. And they only hinted at Holder's stuff. I believe that's his sister who raised him he keeps calling, and I think that's his son who he probably left for her to raise when he bottomed out. His telling Liz that he needed to help a friend was touching, and among the most humanized moments in the show.

It feels like they're so close.

And I feel like Linden is even more hosable after watching her run around in the Yoga pants all episode. Plus I got a thing for the damsel in distress routine, like Holder I guess.

It's a shame I can't see how this show could possibly do a second season that actually works.

[Thorpesaurous]

Oh ... and while I still think the Jamie as killer makes the most sense, the fact that the casino is this protective of the case, and they obviously know about it, since that security broad slipped up and let out the day, I think it more likely that it's someone with some money. I don't see them being so protective of a middling casino client in a murder case. Yeah, it's bad publicity, but not worth the bad pub they'd get when it comes to light they weren't cooperative in a highly publicized murder case involving a high school girl. The only way that makes any sense is if the person they're covering for is a high roller. Drexler? The Mayor? Gwen's Father? Richmond? All those seem to make more sense now to me. Although I still don't like how it would fit Richmond's character to this point, and the others I have a hard time making a connection to the girl without something really new to add.

[B]

My thoughts on the Casino being tight lipped are they knew she was there but never carded her and they don't want that getting out in the media. When she showed up on the news dead they realized that a minor had been running around the place, maybe more than once and went to defcom 5

[Thorpesaurous]

[QUOTE=B

[B]

With those deposits Holder says she's been making (which may have been in the preview to next week), it seems plausible that she was working as a hooker there which is something they may have looked the other way on. Again that would be something the Casino would want to keep under as tight a wrap as possible, particularly with her now being a minor, and dead.Yeah something like that. On your thoughts, the only person I could see the Casino actually covering for would be a political person. Somebody that could do something for the Casino. Casinos make loads of money so it would have to be more than just a high roller who spends money there, it would have to be somebody that could actually do something for the Casinos long term future. Have either of the politicos mentioned any Bills in Assembly or Laws being supported that would effect a Casino? What about the rich dotcom guy that likes meddling in the politicians business, I forget his name

[Thorpesaurous]

[QUOTE=B

[Jackass18]

Hmmm... now I'm thinking that I should just consider the political side of the story. I think I can drop all the people that aren't a part the political story, but I'm still kind of hoping it's not someone who barely has had any screen time (well, with a few exceptions). I still have doubts about it being Richmond, but I can't throw him off yet. Jamie, Gwen, Richmond (meh), the Mayor and Drexler all seem like good candidates.

I hope they don't go the Rosie was a hooker for the casino route. That's the way they went on Twin Peaks. There are other possible reasons that Rosie was at the casino late and what got her killed. Perhaps they allowed some under aged kids to play there and that's why they weren't so cooperative with the police, but that still doesn't explain Rosie's death (nor does that link to the political story arc). Maybe Rosie was a part of Richmond's campaign and it has a link to the casino.

[Thorpesaurous]

Hmmm... now I'm thinking that I should just consider the political side of the story. I think I can drop all the people that aren't a part the political story, but I'm still kind of hoping it's not someone who barely has had any screen time (well, with a few exceptions). I still have doubts about it being Richmond, but I can't throw him off yet. Jamie, Gwen, Richmond (meh), the Mayor and Drexler all seem like good candidates.

I hope they don't go the Rosie was a hooker for the casino route. That's the way they went on Twin Peaks. There are other possible reasons that Rosie was at the casino late and what got her killed. Perhaps they allowed some under aged kids to play there and that's why they weren't so cooperative with the police, but that still doesn't explain Rosie's death (nor does that link to the political story arc). Maybe Rosie was a part of Richmond's campaign and it has a link to the casino.


It's more than just her being at the casino, it's the fact that she's making good size deposits while she's there. Maybe they do let her play, and she's good. And perhaps you're right the casino found out she was underage and decided to hush up about it. But again, that doesn't explain any connection to the campaign.

[Jackass18]

I heard some people say that she was making deposits, but where was that? The sneak peek I saw just had Linden talking on the phone and then Holder showing her the pic of Rosie. I was thinking of various reasons as to how she was getting money, but it's all speculation.

Maybe she's seeing a high roller and he gives her money at the casino, maybe Rosie was a part of Richmond's campaign and the casino was giving her 'donations' for something (but that doesn't seem to make much sense), maybe she was playing there and won money, maybe she was selling drugs or rather picking up drugs from the casino and delivering them to high schoolers, maybe she's doing some form of entertainment for the casino, etc... Her being some kind of escort for them seems to be the most likely at his point, but I hope they don't go that route.

[Thorpesaurous]

I heard some people say that she was making deposits, but where was that? The sneak peek I saw just had Linden talking on the phone and then Holder showing her the pic of Rosie. I was thinking of various reasons as to how she was getting money, but it's all speculation.

Maybe she's seeing a high roller and he gives her money at the casino, maybe Rosie was a part of Richmond's campaign and the casino was giving her 'donations' for something (but that doesn't seem to make much sense), maybe she was playing there and won money, maybe she was selling drugs or rather picking up drugs from the casino and delivering them to high schoolers, maybe she's doing some form of entertainment for the casino, etc... Her being some kind of escort for them seems to be the most likely at his point, but I hope they don't go that route.


Yeah, Holder said it to Linden as he was showing her the pictures during the preview for next week. She's making fairly large deposits. I'll try to find the exact clip.

The thing I can't stop considering is that she was definitely being badgered by someone to be there at a certain time. The phone call, the notes, about being on that particular ferry. That makes it less likely to me that she's simply playing there, or even casually hooking. There has to be some other specific person she's meeting for that particular time to be so important. The drug angle isn't a bad idea. Maybe she was picking up for her dipshit boyfriend, and that takes it all the way back to the very first suspect the show presented. That would be cool. And maybe the car connection to the campaign is just that she "borrowed" that car to from her place of work to get back and forth to the ferry.

I agree the hooking angle wouldn't be great, but I can at least make sense of it in my head. I just don't want it to be something so rediculous that it ruins the whole viewing experience for me, because I really have loved the show.

[pete's montreux]

Jackass, did you see the preview? They showed screencaps [from the security camera] that showed she had been there multiple times [it looked like 8 or 16, can't remember] making deposits.

Anyways, they always advertise that there's an extended preview online, which I watch every week. The preview after the episode is usually 20-30 seconds and the one available online is always about 40-50% longer.

Here's the online preview for ep 12 (http://www.amctv.com/the-killing/videos/the-killing-sneak-peek-episode-12-beau-soleil)

[Jackass18]

That's the one I saw, but it doesn't say anything about the deposits. It could be that she was working there in a more innocent capacity (like a waitress) and met some guy there that would give her sizable tips. I don't know. They didn't give out much info about the case in the past episode.

If someone called her at the house that night, then couldn't the police just find out who was calling? Did they ever check the phone records?

[Thorpesaurous]

It's weird, cause I can't find a clip, but in looking, I've seen other people on other message boards talking about the same thing, Holder telling Linden that Rosie had been making deposits in these ATMs on the casino, but no one seems to be able to find the clip. I wonder if they pulled it down cause it gave away too much. I feel better knowing I'm not just making it up in my head.

[pete's montreux]

No, I most definitely remember Holder saying deposits during the preview after the last episode.

[Thorpesaurous]

You know what else is weird, this show is a remake of I believe a Swedish series. And yet there's not been a single hint of some asshole giving it away because we're a bunch of posers, and the swedish one was better. I figured the internet would be teeming with those guys, but I haven't seen a single one ... fingers crossed.

[pete's montreux]

Probably because the Swedes either don't care or are just nice people who don't want to ruin it for everyone. They might have slightly changed it as well, you never know.

But I definitely plan on watching the original at some point. Obviously after this one is over.

[Black Joker]

You know what else is weird, this show is a remake of I believe a Swedish series. And yet there's not been a single hint of some asshole giving it away because we're a bunch of posers, and the swedish one was better. I figured the internet would be teeming with those guys, but I haven't seen a single one ... fingers crossed.
+1
it was something i was seriously concerned about. hopefully you didn't just jinx us:oldlol:

[pete's montreux]

So I just went back and checked the OnDemand version, which is how I watched it. By the way, the HD from Comcast OnDemand f*cking blows, but l already knew that. It's not true HD, they scam you. People have done tests on the stream and you're barely getting 720.

Holder has a bunch of pictures laid out on a table of Rosie from the cam and says to Sarah, "Rosie's been making cash deposits every few weeks...makes you wonder what she's doing with that kind of money."

Was that preview not broadcast live? Do they use different versions? They must.

[Charlie Sheen]

Here's the online preview for ep 12 (http://www.amctv.com/the-killing/videos/the-killing-sneak-peek-episode-12-beau-soleil)

the one from after the show had mitch yelling at stan that he never changed ...more holder gettin linden up to speed on the atms ... cant remember the phone call to jacks dad

[Jackass18]

You know what else is weird, this show is a remake of I believe a Swedish series. And yet there's not been a single hint of some asshole giving it away because we're a bunch of posers, and the swedish one was better. I figured the internet would be teeming with those guys, but I haven't seen a single one ... fingers crossed.

Danish series. I heard who the killer was from that, but I also heard that this remake will have a different killer.

[Thorpesaurous]

So I just went back and checked the OnDemand version, which is how I watched it. By the way, the HD from Comcast OnDemand f*cking blows, but l already knew that. It's not true HD, they scam you. People have done tests on the stream and you're barely getting 720.

Holder has a bunch of pictures laid out on a table of Rosie from the cam and says to Sarah, "Rosie's been making cash deposits every few weeks...makes you wonder what she's doing with that kind of money."

Was that preview not broadcast live? Do they use different versions? They must.


I have it DVRed, mostly because while the On Demand service with my ATnT is pretty good, AMC's availability On Demand sucks. So I always DVR it, even when I watch it live, which is more often than not. And I had the same trailer as that.

[Jackass18]

So, is he the killer or is that the last red herring? Drexler said something like, 'I can do whatever I want and people like Richmond clean up after me.' Maybe they were in it together.

[Thorpesaurous]

So, is he the killer or is that the last red herring? Drexler said something like, 'I can do whatever I want and people like Richmond clean up after me.' Maybe they were in it together.

Yeah, and Drexler also was using Beau Soleil girls at his party, and they were underwater swimming. Also, they seemed to go a little out of their way a bit to show Jamie's name just above those emails. Maybe he's got an access account where he gets the incoming email from everyone in his company, and those aren't necessarily coming to him? (My boss has that at my work, so that crossed my mind). Also, the way the ad was cut for next week, about how the last five minutes will be talked about all summer, and the way they played Linden's voice in the add, saying "you're under arrest for the death of Rosie Larsen", yet kept the screen black, does make it seem possible that they still may be planning one last switch.

But I don't think it's another Red Herring. I think it's him. The photos Gwen had make it a little tougher to look around him. And his reaction to Linden, and Holder's finding the pictures where the girl led him. I was not in favor of Richmond as the killer. But his reaction makes it seem more buyable to me, as a guy who snapped upon the death of his wife a couple years ago, and then has been slowly building up to this point in his psychosis since then. It's more well played than I would've thought, so I'm alright with it if this is how it goes, although it still wouldn't be my first choice. Jamie jumping in with Drexler's Beau Soleil girls would have been a better push for me, leaving all three of them as real suspects still, and I still think his personality plays best, but again, I think the way Richmond was cut this last episode makes him a lot more viable to me. That's twice Linden has walked in on him waiting for a date I assumed to be Gwen, but now seems could have been a Beau Soleil girl.
I think we need to know more about how his wife died. If she was hit by a drunk driver and knocked off a road into a body of water and drowned, this makes more sense.

Just a great, great show.

And I also noticed that they said next week is the dramatic finale of the "first season" of the new series The Killing, making it seem like they intend on doing a second. I don't know how it would work, other than just starting from scratch with a fresh city, fresh detectives, and a fresh body. It's a great format. I just don't know if I could watch Linden go through this again. And the interest of learning about her, and Holder, and watching their relationship evolve, would be lost. To me you'd just have to take the format and start anew.

[Charlie Sheen]

So, is he the killer or is that the last red herring? Drexler said something like, 'I can do whatever I want and people like Richmond clean up after me.' Maybe they were in it together.
:bowdown: i still dont want to think its gonna be richmond tho. Ggetting around the hooker's fear and that lead she gave holder is gonna be tough in just an hour.

stan is such a likeable character. he played his part so well the always the stoic father only breaking down in the bathroom by himself and this last show mitch holding his past over him and he broke again hitting back with his evaluation of mitch's role in this. dude to be a good man and keep on the straight and narrow. i know its scripted tv but im rooting for stan. he got hit with grief from losing a child the stress of money trouble and mitch railing him about his past until she could use him for her own personal satisfaction.

[pete's montreux]

Yeah, and Drexler also was using Beau Soleil girls at his party, and they were underwater swimming. Also, they seemed to go a little out of their way a bit to show Jamie's name just above those emails. Maybe he's got an access account where he gets the incoming email from everyone in his company, and those aren't necessarily coming to him? (My boss has that at my work, so that crossed my mind). Also, the way the ad was cut for next week, about how the last five minutes will be talked about all summer, and the way they played Linden's voice in the add, saying "you're under arrest for the death of Rosie Larsen", yet kept the screen black, does make it seem possible that they still may be planning one last switch.

But I don't think it's another Red Herring. I think it's him. The photos Gwen had make it a little tougher to look around him. And his reaction to Linden, and Holder's finding the pictures where the girl led him. I was not in favor of Richmond as the killer. But his reaction makes it seem more buyable to me, as a guy who snapped upon the death of his wife a couple years ago, and then has been slowly building up to this point in his psychosis since then. It's more well played than I would've thought, so I'm alright with it if this is how it goes, although it still wouldn't be my first choice. Jamie jumping in with Drexler's Beau Soleil girls would have been a better push for me, leaving all three of them as real suspects still, and I still think his personality plays best, but again, I think the way Richmond was cut this last episode makes him a lot more viable to me. That's twice Linden has walked in on him waiting for a date I assumed to be Gwen, but now seems could have been a Beau Soleil girl.
I think we need to know more about how his wife died. If she was hit by a drunk driver and knocked off a road into a body of water and drowned, this makes more sense.

Just a great, great show.

And I also noticed that they said next week is the dramatic finale of the "first season" of the new series The Killing, making it seem like they intend on doing a second. I don't know how it would work, other than just starting from scratch with a fresh city, fresh detectives, and a fresh body. It's a great format. I just don't know if I could watch Linden go through this again. And the interest of learning about her, and Holder, and watching their relationship evolve, would be lost. To me you'd just have to take the format and start anew.

AMC just announced on their Twitter that the show was renewed for a second season.

Also, I'm not totally convinced it was Richmond from the e-mails. Drexler is a smart man obviously, he could've easily hired someone to re-route incoming e-mails to Richmond's account.

[Thorpesaurous]

AMC just announced on their Twitter that the show was renewed for a second season.

Also, I'm not totally convinced it was Richmond from the e-mails. Drexler is a smart man obviously, he could've easily hired someone to re-route incoming e-mails to Richmond's account.


But Drexler donated 5M to Richmond's campaign. Why of all the people he could screw by usurping their email would he choose the guy he's funded to win an election.

I do agree that the email doesn't 100% close the door though. It could still be Jamie's laptop or some other such thing. But those photo's are awfully incriminating. Where'd the mayor get those pics from? Why would he wait so long to dump them. Why not after the business of his affair? They are all with different girls it would seem looking quickly?

[Black Joker]

can't wait for next weeks ep

[pete's montreux]

It's probably a service that everyone in that politics circle uses. The Mayor's rep was already crushed, he had nothing to lose by sharing those pictures even if he knows every public figure has pictures of every other public figure with escorts. Everyone has the ammo as a last resort.

And if we're thinking Drexler and Richmond were maybe in on it together, then you gotta think like "me or you" kind of thing. The deal Drexler has with Richmond goes down the drain if someone is going to take the rap for Rosie's murder. Richmond has his rep, Drexler is a billionaire. If someone is going to go down, Drexler is way more prepared both financially and power wise to throw Richmond under the bus if it ever came down to it.

Drexler without a new basketball arena is still Drexler the billionaire. He's going to do everything in his power to stay where he is.

But again, that's if you think they're in it together.

[lpublic_enemyl]

i thought somehow it was the mayor or drexler but richmond just came outta no where

[Jackass18]

Also, the way the ad was cut for next week, about how the last five minutes will be talked about all summer, and the way they played Linden's voice in the add, saying "you're under arrest for the death of Rosie Larsen", yet kept the screen black, does make it seem possible that they still may be planning one last switch.

I saw that, too, but it doesn't necessarily mean there will be a different killer. I can't really think of anyone that would really qualify as shocking and have people talk about it all summer. Jamie wouldn't really be shocking. The only ones who really would be shocking would be a family member or someone like Holder, but none of them really fit. Gwen? Would she be shocking? The problem with her is that we don't really know that much about her. Maybe someone else gets killed. Or perhaps, they go to arrest Richmond, but he kills himself. I think that would qualify.

I think Drexler has some role in it. He had those Beau Soleil girls, which Jamie remarked that they looked like they were Freshman in high school, and then Drexler said what I quoted earlier and also said something like, 'I didn't give him 5 million just because he could shoot hoops.' That is really quite suspicious, though maybe he meant it in a way that if he did something in the future, then Richmond would clean up after him since he gave him all that money. Also, they kept building up the suspicion towards Drexler and then at the end revealed it was Richmond, which kind of makes you forget about Drexler.


But I don't think it's another Red Herring. I think it's him. The photos Gwen had make it a little tougher to look around him. And his reaction to Linden, and Holder's finding the pictures where the girl led him.

That meant that he was Orpheus and not necessarily the killer, though. Maybe when he was talking about drowning he was referring to his wife drowning (if that's how she died).


I was not in favor of Richmond as the killer.

In a way I was against him, but in another I was for him. For him because he would be the best choice story-wise. Against him because he seemed too obvious all along as how much the show focused on him. Though, that does kind of make it all the better if it is him.

[Jackass18]

I do agree that the email doesn't 100% close the door though. It could still be Jamie's laptop or some other such thing.

http://i54.tinypic.com/dlqand.jpg

I don't think Jamie would be e-mailing himself nor do I think Richmond just happened to have Jamie's laptop.


But those photo's are awfully incriminating. Where'd the mayor get those pics from?

I assume he had someone following Richmond around.


Why would he wait so long to dump them. Why not after the business of his affair?

I was wondering that, as well, but I assume he just didn't feel the need as he was comfortably ahead of Richmond. Plus, maybe he had some dates with those girls also.


I have questions, too. Why did Mitch say that Stan gambled the money away? Why was the hooker so scared of Richmond and remarked to Holder, "you don't know what you're getting yourself into" and that she wanted protection if she was going to testify? Richmond is currently just a city councilman, it's not like he has all kinds of power, authority and influence. Is he connected to Janek or something?

[JtotheIzzo]

What if Orpheus isn't the killer?

I don't think Richmond did it, but I do like the creepy cliffhanger in the computer den with Richmond and Linden.

There needs to be another twist to make this thing complete and it is too easy to just have it be Richmond.

I am gonna say that maybe Richmond used the service, maybe he was Orpheus (likely) but I am guessing he has an airtight alibi that clears him the night Rosie went missing.

Jamie?

-two things lead to him.

1-when they got the invite to Drexler's place, Jamie and Richmond both kind of smirked as if they knew what was going to be going on there and neither wanted to go.

2-when Jamie got there he was real antsy to leave, almost as if he felt like he may expose himself.

Auntie?

-I think she knew what Rosie was up to and turned a blind eye, she is feeling a lot of guilt about this and her defensive nature proves this.

Drexler and the Mayor?

-Two obvious candidates given how Beau Soleil seems to be a service for power brokers and both seem to be less than gentlemanly with the ladies.

Longshots:

Gwen's father?

-He would have access to the car but not enough is known about him.

Conspiracy?

-the mayor had those pictures, they mentioned earlier that campaign jobbers jump from team to team all the time, what if they used a plant in an attempt to smear the Richmond campaign by using the car in the murder (this actually had a hugely negative effect on the campaign at the time).
and what if it was that gangster (the one Rosie's dad worked for) was used to do the job (not him per say but one of his foot soldiers) he could get revenge on the debt and do a job at the same time.

Obviously my conspiracy is a bit far fetched, but there are too many factors at play here to make me think it was a crime of passion or just the work of a sick pervert.

I like this to end in a conspiracy, not a simple murder.

[Thorpesaurous]

What about Gwen in a fit of jealousy? That would allow for Richmond to be Orpheous, yet still get one more realistic misdirect out of it.

Or Gwen's father? If it seems like a power brokers network, then he's at worst the second most powerfull person we've been introduced to other than arguably Drexler.

[JtotheIzzo]

What about Gwen in a fit of jealousy? That would allow for Richmond to be Orpheous, yet still get one more realistic misdirect out of it.

Or Gwen's father? If it seems like a power brokers network, then he's at worst the second most powerfull person we've been introduced to other than arguably Drexler.

Definitely possible. I do think it is some kind of conspiracy, Richmond has been 'Mr Goodie two shoes' politically so I am sure there are a few out there who want to take him down.

[bagelred]

One basic idea that keeps coming back to me is that Darren had an affair with Rosie. Darren is being built up as such a good guy, I think they are setting us up for a fall. Jamie finds out about it somehow, and without Darren knowing, "takes care" of Rosie, knowing that if the underage affair came out, it would ruin Darren's mayoral chances. We know Jamie will do anything to win that campaign. Seems too easy but that's what keeps popping up in my head.

Wow, that would be too easy if I got it right. I've been saying all along they've been building up Darren as the "good guy"...almost too much. Now he's ready for the fall.

[Jackass18]

I am gonna say that maybe Richmond used the service, maybe he was Orpheus (likely) but I am guessing he has an airtight alibi that clears him the night Rosie went missing.

His alibi was that he was at an Inn that night, and Gwen said she was with him. She could have been covering for him.


1-when they got the invite to Drexler's place, Jamie and Richmond both kind of smirked as if they knew what was going to be going on there and neither wanted to go.

They know what kind of person Drexler is (a cokehead that likes hookers and thinks he's above the law) and what kind of parties he has, and since they have an upcoming election, then that's probably not the best situation for them.


2-when Jamie got there he was real antsy to leave, almost as if he felt like he may expose himself.

Jamie has been apprehensive before like the time when he went to infiltrate the mayor's campaign and was asked to drink. When he went to Drexler's party he saw some girls that he thought looked rather young and commented about how he couldn't be there because he had an election in 14 days. That's not to say that Jamie isn't involved, but I just don't think his involvement constitutes as being a shocking revelation.


Auntie?

-I think she knew what Rosie was up to and turned a blind eye, she is feeling a lot of guilt about this and her defensive nature proves this.

If she's feeling guilty it's probably because she thinks her lifestyle and Rosie becoming a part of it is what got Rosie killed.

Maybe Rosie was going to expose the whole Beau Soleil thing, so someone killed her to silence her. Maybe someone like Drexler or Janek runs it through the casino. Just a theory.

Now, if someone is framing Richmond, then from what we know, I think the only one who would have a motive would be the mayor or someone in his campaign. But then, you have to think why they would kill Rosie. It doesn't seem to fit.

I'm hoping it's not Gwen. I don't know if I'll like it if it happened out of jealousy. I don't think they've done enough with her character that making her the killer would make for a good story. I have reasons to cast doubt on others like Jamie and Drexler, but not much to cast doubts on her, though. Richmond as the killer works best, but what is so shocking that people will talk about it all summer? He's killed before? He kills himself? In someway he was responsible for his wife's death? He was born a woman?

[Thorpesaurous]

His alibi was that he was at an Inn that night, and Gwen said she was with him. She could have been covering for him.


They know what kind of person Drexler is (a cokehead that likes hookers and thinks he's above the law) and what kind of parties he has, and since they have an upcoming election, then that's probably not the best situation for them.



Jamie has been apprehensive before like the time when he went to infiltrate the mayor's campaign and was asked to drink. When he went to Drexler's party he saw some girls that he thought looked rather young and commented about how he couldn't be there because he had an election in 14 days. That's not to say that Jamie isn't involved, but I just don't think his involvement constitutes as being a shocking revelation.



If she's feeling guilty it's probably because she thinks her lifestyle and Rosie becoming a part of it is what got Rosie killed.

Maybe Rosie was going to expose the whole Beau Soleil thing, so someone killed her to silence her. Maybe someone like Drexler or Janek runs it through the casino. Just a theory.

Now, if someone is framing Richmond, then from what we know, I think the only one who would have a motive would be the mayor or someone in his campaign. But then, you have to think why they would kill Rosie. It doesn't seem to fit.

I'm hoping it's not Gwen. I don't know if I'll like it if it happened out of jealousy. I don't think they've done enough with her character that making her the killer would make for a good story. I have reasons to cast doubt on others like Jamie and Drexler, but not much to cast doubts on her, though. Richmond as the killer works best, but what is so shocking that people will talk about it all summer? He's killed before? He kills himself? In someway he was responsible for his wife's death? He was born a woman?

I still have this vague memory from the first episode, after the car is found and linked to his campaign, Jamie and Gwen are walking fast into their office, and he asks her where Richmond is, to which she says she doesn't know, and there's a quick implication that she's sleeping with him and hiding it, but there's also a sense that she genuinely doesn't know. I swear she says something to him in that exchange about taking care of something last night, while she gives him his watch, which at the time read like it related to his wife's killer's parole, but it's not entirely clear (and I may not be remembering it correctly at all, but this isn't the first time I've gotten stuck on that particular scene).

If he actually killed his wife and this isn't his first time around, that would be a nice twist if it was written right.

[Black Joker]

t-minus 5 minutes!

[Jackass18]

Wow, I didn't think they'd go that route. I'm not sure how it all makes sense, but I think I like it. Now, who was the driver? Drexler? Gwen? The mayor or someone from his campaign?

[Black Joker]

Wow, I didn't think they'd go that route. I'm not sure how it all makes sense, but I think I like it. Now, who was the driver? Drexler? Gwen? The mayor or someone from his campaign?

yeah, i was not expecting that direction. that was a ridiculous episode

[bagelred]

Need....to....process.....what....just....happened .






:eek:




So Gwen was lying......me so confused.

[leopoldstotch]

there are a good number of things that happened tonight. a lot to process and think about until next year. :cry:

[Jackass18]

I think Gwen was the driver and was working with Holder. How and why it all came together like that I don't know. Gwen seems to fit, though. She could give Holder access to the campaign car, and she would know Richmond's schedule so that would make framing him so much easier. They knew when to pull it off so that Richmond wouldn't have a great alibi. The motive? I don't know. Jealousy over all the girls Richmond was with? Maybe, but we don't know much Holder's past and why he would want to kill Rosie and frame Richmond, though. Money? Power? I don't know, but I'm going to have to watch the entire season over again.

[ukfan22]

This show was so bad, but I kept watching to find out who the killer was.


fcuk AMC

[Thorpesaurous]

Yeah, I was a little disappointed that I went the whole episode "knowing" it was Richmond. He was Orpheus. There was no denial of that. And it had the little story of Orpheus saving his wife.

They promised the last five minutes would have everyone talking all summer. I was doubtfull they could do a season two, because a new case just wouldn't sit very well, but I guess this one isn't really over.

I can't understand Holder's motive at all. Is he covering for someone he knows, because he not once seemed overly opposed to Richmond. And to come this far, his helping to figure things out one step at a time, and then right at the end to get that sloppy. Where's the photo from? We know it's not from the toll camera. So where did he get it. Is it doctored? Is this him working with the Mayor to bring Richmond down? Is it Gwen looking for help from him? Could it even be Gwen's father that she's trying to cover for?

[Jackass18]

The photo was a fake/doctored.

Holder might not be the killer. Maybe he was paid off to frame Richmond. Maybe he was blackmailed into it and/or threatened to do so. But, that doesn't explain Rosie's death. Why was the dumb ho killed? I guess we'll have to wait 'til season 2 to find out.

[Thorpesaurous]

The photo was a fake/doctored.

Holder might not be the killer. Maybe he was paid off to frame Richmond. Maybe he was blackmailed into it and/or threatened to do so. But, that doesn't explain Rosie's death. Why was the dumb ho killed? I guess we'll have to wait 'til season 2 to find out.


Perhaps Holder has a past relationship with Drexler from his old vice days. We know Drexler is well into the narcotic game. Maybe he paid off Holder at some point in the past, and now Holder covering for Drexler is some kind of a manner of making a few bucks. We've seen Holder get secret stacks of cash as well. I to don't think there's a way they could make Holder the killer that I could buy, but an accomplice I suppose. There's also some question as to how Holder got promoted so quickly through the system. It seems he must know someone somewhere, or has something he can hold over someone of importance's head.

[JtotheIzzo]

I want my 13 hours back. What a load of shit, nothing f*ckin happens.

[Lebowsky]

It should've ended in this past episode. I have a feeling they'll try to drag the plot too long and will eventually **** up. I hope I'm wrong.

[Black Joker]

It should've ended in this past episode. I have a feeling they'll try to drag the plot too long and will eventually **** up. I hope I'm wrong.
i've got faith in AMC, although i was hoping the season finale would've wrapped up this case though

[Lebowsky]

i've got faith in AMC, although i was hoping the season finale would've wrapped up this case though
I tend to be pessimistic when it comes to TV shows. Let's hope they prove me wrong.

[pete's montreux]

I wanted to know nothing of the original series, but I had to find out what we're expecting as far as future seasons.

The first season of the original was 20 episodes, and the second season was 10. Maybe AMC will try to stretch this out to three seasons of 13 episodes?

[Jackass18]

Perhaps Holder has a past relationship with Drexler from his old vice days. We know Drexler is well into the narcotic game. Maybe he paid off Holder at some point in the past, and now Holder covering for Drexler is some kind of a manner of making a few bucks. We've seen Holder get secret stacks of cash as well. I to don't think there's a way they could make Holder the killer that I could buy, but an accomplice I suppose. There's also some question as to how Holder got promoted so quickly through the system. It seems he must know someone somewhere, or has something he can hold over someone of importance's head.

That's possible, but why would Drexler want to frame Richmond? Why would he give Richmond all that money and then frame him? Did he strike a deal with the mayor that if he were to help bring his opponent down, then the mayor would help him get his stadium?

I actually liked how they ended with a cliffhanger, and we don't really know what's going on instead of wrapping it up in a pretty little package at the end. From what I read, this case will get wrapped up next season and then there will be a new case. Not sure how accurate the info is, though.

[Black Joker]

Bill Simmons was not a fan
(http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6680958/hackery-first-degree)

edit: watch for spoilers for the Danish version... sigh i didn't get that warning

[bagelred]

Bill Simmons was not a fan
(http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6680958/hackery-first-degree)

edit: watch for spoilers for the Danish version... sigh i didn't get that warning

I'm skimming his article now.....but disagree with Simmons on this one....

1. I never heard definitely that this murder would be wrapped up in one season. I actually wasn't sure. But I wasn't in this because I HAD to know the killer this season. I sort of hoped they would wrap it up and leave a way to continue the show next season. It was more ambiguous then I hoped but still.......

2. Why the f-ck would you watch a show if you just want to know who killed Rosie? Meaning, its not just the destination, its the journey. You know, the development of characters, seeing how lives are affected, etc. Any show where you are just waiting for the last episode....why bother? These are the same people who watched LOST and were frustrated because they didn't reveal what the island was soon enough. Honestly....I wonder if these people ever read a long novel. They probably read the first 50 pages and think "WELL! What happens already?!"

3. I agree with him that there were storylines not necessary, like the scenes with Linden's fiancee, but they are trying to establish characters......

[niko]

I'm skimming his article now.....but disagree with Simmons on this one....

1. I never heard definitely that this murder would be wrapped up in one season. I actually wasn't sure. But I wasn't in this because I HAD to know the killer this season. I sort of hoped they would wrap it up and leave a way to continue the show next season. It was more ambiguous then I hoped but still.......

2. Why the f-ck would you watch a show if you just want to know who killed Rosie? Meaning, its not just the destination, its the journey. You know, the development of characters, seeing how lives are affected, etc. Any show where you are just waiting for the last episode....why bother? These are the same people who watched LOST and were frustrated because they didn't reveal what the island was soon enough. Honestly....I wonder if these people ever read a long novel. They probably read the first 50 pages and think "WELL! What happens already?!"

3. I agree with him that there were storylines not necessary, like the scenes with Linden's fiancee, but they are trying to establish characters......
im a big fan of the self contained type shows, sopranos, the wire, breaknig bad, etc. Do you think i would like this? Im on the fence of watching it...

[bagelred]

im a big fan of the self contained type shows, sopranos, the wire, breaknig bad, etc. Do you think i would like this? Im on the fence of watching it...

I'm not sure what you mean by self contained exactly. Do you mean serials that continue from show to show?

I actually don't watch any of those three shows you mention on a regular basis, but I think this is similar to those. And I'd probably like those shows if I got into them.

Essentially it's a "Who done it?" show. I mean, I hate the CSI's type show, and essentially this is a murder mystery but the mystery continues the whole season, unlike CSI which is wrapped up every episode. It's very slow paced, and a little dry....alot of it is character development as well. But I enjoy that. Plus, if you've been reading this thread, many people don't love the "payoff" we got in the final episode.

For me personally, I'm glad I watched this season, even if I was a little iffy on the final episode, and I will be looking forward to Season 2. So I'd recommend it.

[niko]

I'm not sure what you mean by self contained exactly. Do you mean serials that continue from show to show?

I actually don't watch any of those three shows you mention on a regular basis, but I think this is similar to those. And I'd probably like those shows if I got into them.

Essentially it's a "Who done it?" show. I mean, I hate the CSI's type show, and essentially this is a murder mystery but the mystery continues the whole season, unlike CSI which is wrapped up every episode. It's very slow paced, and a little dry....alot of it is character development as well. But I enjoy that. Plus, if you've been reading this thread, many people don't love the "payoff" we got in the final episode.

For me personally, I'm glad I watched this season, even if I was a little iffy on the final episode, and I will be looking forward to Season 2. So I'd recommend it.
i mean basically i like shows with arcs that go 12 or so episodes and then rap up for the year, as opposed to shows like CSI which have one story each episode and are going to run forever if they could.

basically were you "satisfied?" and will the main story wrap up at some point and not be left unfinished. if so ,and you say its good quality, i think ill watch it...

[Lebowsky]

i mean basically i like shows with arcs that go 12 or so episodes and then rap up for the year, as opposed to shows like CSI which have one story each episode and are going to run forever if they could.

basically were you "satisfied?" and will the main story wrap up at some point and not be left unfinished. if so ,and you say its good quality, i think ill watch it...

Yes, it is like that. The investigation slowly unfolds for the whole season, but it will eventually come to an end (hopefully sooner than later). It's like a cross between Twin Peaks with Mystic River, high quality television like I hadn't seen in a long time (although it still can't touch Twin Peaks).

[Jackass18]

2. Why the f-ck would you watch a show if you just want to know who killed Rosie? Meaning, its not just the destination, its the journey. You know, the development of characters, seeing how lives are affected, etc. Any show where you are just waiting for the last episode....why bother? These are the same people who watched LOST and were frustrated because they didn't reveal what the island was soon enough. Honestly....I wonder if these people ever read a long novel. They probably read the first 50 pages and think "WELL! What happens already?!"

There were a lot of people crying on IMDB because they didn't wrap it up and spell out everything for them. Apparently, many of them thought the killer was going to be revealed and all that stuff and were disappointed that it wasn't. Jesus, the season was just a mere 13 episodes, which is nothing. I wanted the show to continue because I like some of the characters namely Holder, and am interested to see where they go with his character, and I'm curious to see what the big conspiracy is. It kind of sucks not knowing why the poor girl was killed, but I have patience and didn't need it to be wrapped up in 13 episodes.

[Black Joker]

There were a lot of people crying on IMDB because they didn't wrap it up and spell out everything for them. Apparently, many of them thought the killer was going to be revealed and all that stuff and were disappointed that it wasn't. Jesus, the season was just a mere 13 episodes, which is nothing. I wanted the show to continue because I like some of the characters namely Holder, and am interested to see where they go with his character, and I'm curious to see what the big conspiracy is. It kind of sucks not knowing why the poor girl was killed, but I have patience and didn't need it to be wrapped up in 13 episodes.
+1

besides, as Pete brought up, the Danish show went on for a couple seasons too. although as with just about every show i watch, waiting like a year for the next season kills me :oldlol:

[dunksby]

Nice finale, I loved this season and surely looking forward to the second season.
Holder is into some conspiracy with his sponsor. If you remember in the beginning we had this scene where Holder and his sponsor were talking about the Rosie case and later stuff was leaked to the press.

[bagelred]

i mean basically i like shows with arcs that go 12 or so episodes and then rap up for the year, as opposed to shows like CSI which have one story each episode and are going to run forever if they could.

basically were you "satisfied?" and will the main story wrap up at some point and not be left unfinished. if so ,and you say its good quality, i think ill watch it...

Yes I was satisfied. But I'm sure many people, including Bill Simmons, were definitely not. It was a story arc that seemed like it should end this season, but they left it to continue into Season 2. For you, it's probably better that you know that upfront, so you aren't disappointed in the final episode.

I would watch it if I were you. Its not a perfect show, in that there are some minor plot holes, but overall, its a well done show.

[JtotheIzzo]

I want my 13 hours back. What a load of shit, nothing f*ckin happens.

after letting some time pass, I am even more plssed off at this show. what a piece of shit, and what a sucker I am for staying with it till the end.

[pete's montreux]

after letting some time pass, I am even more plssed off at this show. what a piece of shit, and what a sucker I am for staying with it till the end.

Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out chump.

[JtotheIzzo]

Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out chump.

No shit, what a sucker I was for seeing this crap through till the end.

[pete's montreux]

No shit, what a sucker I was for seeing this crap through till the end.

What exactly were you expecting? Have you any knowledge on the type of television AMC produces?

[tian820]

**** this show. At least the Danish version had the decency and brains to reveal what happened after their first season. I'm just glad I didn't go through all this shit over 3 months like some of you guys did. I picked it up last week and watched the first 12 episodes in like 3 days. Again, **** this show

[pete's montreux]

Oh, I get what you guys are saying now, original revealed it in the first season. I can understand that. Doesn't bother me as much as it does you.

[JtotheIzzo]

What exactly were you expecting? Have you any knowledge on the type of television AMC produces?


No Pete, I don't have ANY knowledge of AMC whatsoever. (sounds best when you read it using an annoying fat guy condescendingly exhaling voice).

What is the AMC you speak of? is it this?

http://photocarsonline.com/blog/wp-content/gallery/amc-pacer/1-amc-pacer.jpg

Face facts, the show was boring as f*ck, the characters, aside from Holder, were boring as f*ck, and the only thing that kept us interested (and I was interested) was the fact that after suffering through 13 hours of rainy mopey bullshit was that we would get to know who the killer was.

Remember, this was how they advertised the show:

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgpzxcYeP71qz8vumo1_400.jpg

Well, I don't f*cking know who killed Rosie Larsen because you c*nts decided to squeeze some more time out of us and money out of the sponsors.

Typical episode:

cues Supertramp ITS RAINING AGAIN
Linden is having trouble with her son, and that fiance will need to wait one more day, OMG!
Lets mope around with the Larsens for five lame minutes.
Lets check out campaign headquarters, that Richmond he's so principled, but to win this race he'll need to...
Lets bring in an ancillary character and end with a cliff hanger that they might have done it, only to clear them early next episode.
Fades to panoramic view of a rainy Seattle.
rinse.
repeat, 12 more lame ass times.

The cliffhanger that will have you talking all summer. Yeah talking about how p*ssed we are you insulted us by not giving us closure to your hack Nordic piece of shit cop drama.

I don't wanna hear no 'I got a bluray collection I know movies and you just don't get it' artsy fartsy bullshit chatter about how this was good, because it wasn't, it was a con job, and so far from Mad Men and Breaking Bad that it is laughable.

[pete's montreux]

But you don't get it.

[JtotheIzzo]

But you don't get it.

:roll:

quit trying to make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

[pete's montreux]

I don't know who uses that line more, you or Brock.

[JtotheIzzo]

I don't know who uses that line more, you or Brock.

prolly Barack.:confusedshrug:

[Charlie Sheen]

Face facts, the show was boring as f*ck, the characters, aside from Holder, were boring as f*ck, and the only thing that kept us interested (and I was interested) was the fact that after suffering through 13 hours of rainy mopey bullshit was that we would get to know who the killer was.

u didn't like stan? that character overshadowed the murder mystery for most of the first season. and thats probly why i dont feel a massive disappointment from the way the show ended cause he was a compelling story. somewhere around third episode maybe i was more interested how stan was coping with grief and hope for justice than i was about who actually killed rosie.

holder is a great character...the more i learned about him the more he took on an image of dexter...it kept feeling like i'd been there before with him.


Remember, this was how they advertised the show:

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgpzxcYeP71qz8vumo1_400.jpg

Well, I don't f*cking know who killed Rosie Larsen because you c*nts decided to squeeze some more time out of us and money out of the sponsors.

Typical episode:

cues Supertramp ITS RAINING AGAIN
Linden is having trouble with her son, and that fiance will need to wait one more day, OMG!
Lets mope around with the Larsens for five lame minutes.
Lets check out campaign headquarters, that Richmond he's so principled, but to win this race he'll need to...
Lets bring in an ancillary character and end with a cliff hanger that they might have done it, only to clear them early next episode.
Fades to panoramic view of a rainy Seattle.
rinse.
repeat, 12 more lame ass times.

The cliffhanger that will have you talking all summer. Yeah talking about how p*ssed we are you insulted us by not giving us closure to your hack Nordic piece of shit cop drama.

I don't wanna hear no 'I got a bluray collection I know movies and you just don't get it' artsy fartsy bullshit chatter about how this was good, because it wasn't, it was a con job, and so far from Mad Men and Breaking Bad that it is laughable.
I hafta agree with a lot of this stuff tho. the whodunit part of the show left me with an empty feeling. show moved to richmond so fast in the last two episodes they didnt expand on jamie and gwen. the rest of the season they were there to do their jobs then gwen tells linden she cant alibi richmond anymore it seemed rushed maybe it was supposed to cause linden wanted to nail richmond so bad at that point. when linden broke it put her character more in focus revealing who regi was and lindens background. gwen is still an unknown to me but they brought her into the story several times in the past 2 weeks.

[Black Joker]

**** this show. At least the Danish version had the decency and brains to reveal what happened after their first season. I'm just glad I didn't go through all this shit over 3 months like some of you guys did. I picked it up last week and watched the first 12 episodes in like 3 days. Again, **** this show
you do know that the Danish version, while also being an hour long show went for 20 episodes, 7 more than the AMC short 13 ep season. so they had a little more time to reveal what happened

[tian820]

you do know that the Danish version, while also being an hour long show went for 20 episodes, 7 more than the AMC short 13 ep season. so they had a little more time to reveal what happened

In which case I would be completely fine if AMC had completely copied that format and expanded season one to 20 episodes. Of course that's not the case, they're making you wait an entire year (or 9 months or whatever) for a show that had one compelling element. The one element that they hung all their viewers out to dry on

Moreover, none of you felt like this season was way too damn long? They blew an entire episode on the lead trying to find her son who wasn't lost, but spending time with his father who wasn't introduced until that episode and played absolutely no role during this season other than that single incident

[Black Joker]

In which case I would be completely fine if AMC had completely copied that format and expanded season one to 20 episodes. Of course that's not the case, they're making you wait an entire year (or 9 months or whatever) for a show that had one compelling element. The one element that they hung all their viewers out to dry on

Moreover, none of you felt like this season was way too damn long? They blew an entire episode on the lead trying to find her son who wasn't lost, but spending time with his father who wasn't introduced until that episode and played absolutely no role during this season other than that single incident
i actually liked that episode :oldlol: gave some more information about the lives of both leads

[tian820]

i actually liked that episode :oldlol: gave some more information about the lives of both leads

lol, I think it's safe to say we don't see eye-to-eye on this season/show. I only brought that point up to support the fact that I thought they could have done this show in less than the 13 episodes they made us sit through, while still not giving us a proper ending to the season. Realistically it could have been like 7 or 8 episodes and they could have made it work, and more importantly, they could have given us the closure we wanted

[Lebowsky]

In which case I would be completely fine if AMC had completely copied that format and expanded season one to 20 episodes. Of course that's not the case, they're making you wait an entire year (or 9 months or whatever) for a show that had one compelling element. The one element that they hung all their viewers out to dry on

Moreover, none of you felt like this season was way too damn long? They blew an entire episode on the lead trying to find her son who wasn't lost, but spending time with his father who wasn't introduced until that episode and played absolutely no role during this season other than that single incident
That's the only episode I really disliked. It felt completely unnecessary and a complete waste of time. Bored me to no end.

[Jackass18]

Face facts, the show was boring as f*ck

Some of it was, some of it wasn't. I wasn't as enthralled as something like The Wire, but I wasn't bored or else I would have stopped watching. Why didn't you stop watching if you found it "boring as f*ck"?


the characters, aside from Holder, were boring as f*ck

Holder, Linden was alright, Stan, Drexler (though in very limited time), and Richmond weren't boring.


and the only thing that kept us interested (and I was interested) was the fact that after suffering through 13 hours of rainy mopey bullshit was that we would get to know who the killer was.

Speak for yourself. I was along for the ride and wasn't watching merely to know who the killer was. Knowing that wasn't vital to me because there's going to be another season where it'll be revealed.


Well, I don't f*cking know who killed Rosie Larsen because you c*nts decided to squeeze some more time out of us and money out of the sponsors.

That's how they were going to do it all along. I didn't want just one season of 13 episodes. 13 episodes is nothing. I liked Holder and found some of the other characters interesting so I wanted more.


The cliffhanger that will have you talking all summer. Yeah talking about how p*ssed we are you insulted us by not giving us closure to your hack Nordic piece of shit cop drama.

Aww, poor baby. They didn't end it after 13 episodes, so let's throw a hissyfit about it.


I don't wanna hear no 'I got a bluray collection I know movies and you just don't get it' artsy fartsy bullshit chatter about how this was good, because it wasn't, it was a con job

If you hated it so much, then why did you keep watching?

[Jackass18]

Of course that's not the case, they're making you wait an entire year (or 9 months or whatever) for a show that had one compelling element.

Oh noes! 9 months/a year! Time goes by fast as hell, so have a little patience. Other shows like Lost, 24, and The Wire made you wait just as long or even longer.


Moreover, none of you felt like this season was way too damn long?

No way, 13 episodes is short as hell.


They blew an entire episode on the lead trying to find her son who wasn't lost, but spending time with his father who wasn't introduced until that episode and played absolutely no role during this season other than that single incident

Character development.

[tian820]

Oh noes! 9 months/a year! Time goes by fast as hell, so have a little patience. Other shows like Lost, 24, and The Wire made you wait just as long or even longer.



No way, 13 episodes is short as hell.



Character development.

I'm not going to respond to those first two because they're more or less personal opinion, of which we obviously disagree upon.

Whose character were they developing for an entire episode? Linden? Were they trying to show her caring side as a mother? We already knew she cares about her son, but doesn't know how to show it. And it still introduced the ex-husband who wasn't brought into the fold at all for the rest of the season. You can argue that maybe he'll play a bigger role in season two, and chances are he will, but IMO they lost a boatload of viewers with that finale and it's not going to a significant impact anyways. Maybe it helped out Holder's character a bit, but he was pretty much already established. So what else did that episode do for the season?

I feel like this season is going to rely on next season to validate it, not really firmly decided on whether or not I'm going to let AMC drag me through it yet

[Thorpesaurous]

I'm not going to respond to those first two because they're more or less personal opinion, of which we obviously disagree upon.

Whose character were they developing for an entire episode? Linden? Were they trying to show her caring side as a mother? We already knew she cares about her son, but doesn't know how to show it. And it still introduced the ex-husband who wasn't brought into the fold at all for the rest of the season. You can argue that maybe he'll play a bigger role in season two, and chances are he will, but IMO they lost a boatload of viewers with that finale and it's not going to a significant impact anyways. Maybe it helped out Holder's character a bit, but he was pretty much already established. So what else did that episode do for the season?

I feel like this season is going to rely on next season to validate it, not really firmly decided on whether or not I'm going to let AMC drag me through it yet

I felt like the whole point of that episode was to show just how obsessive Linden gets about these cases. They've hinted at her last case. She's completely lost track of her son, who as you say, she obviously cares about. That's also the point with the fiance. She's hyper-obsessive but in a subtle kind of way.

My least favorite episodes were mostly with how long they spent on Ahmad.

And I'm a little disappointed I didn't get closure, but I really had no idea how they could pull of a season two. This works for me.

[pete's montreux]

AMC president speaks on the Killing finale backlash

http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/06/24/the-killing-finale-response/

[quote]AMC president and general manager Charlie Collier broke his silence on last week

[johndeeregreen]

It's gotta be Richmond. As one blogger said, there is no way the show would be so corny/redundant as to have both Larsen and Belko try to kill who they think the killer is. No way. Richmond's guilty as hell, and for whatever reason Holder needed to fudge some evidence to get him.

BTW, that part of it is also completely lame. As if during the proceedings they aren't going to find out that those cameras weren't working and the evidence was fabricated. What a f*cking joke of a plot twist that was.

One blog I read put it best, saying along the lines of "If you would have told me that by the end of the first season we still wouldn't know who killed Rosie Larsen, I wouldn't have bothered watching." Sums up my feelings exactly. It seemed to have plot twists just for the sake of it, not for any tangible reason, and looking back what the first season gave us was an intruiging mystery intertwined with snippets of character development. The only interesting character on the damn show is Holder and he's only briefly explored; they wasted an ENTIRE episode trying to get us acquainted with Linden and it really did jack shit. Holder's life with his nephew never made it anywhere, nor did Jack's dad, the plotline with Linden's fiance was dropped completely...like, without SOME sort of resolution, that entire season was sat through for absolutely nothing. You can only finish with so many cliffhangers until the audience stops giving a f*ck. What is this shit, Nip Tuck?

[johndeeregreen]

That's how they were going to do it all along. I didn't want just one season of 13 episodes. 13 episodes is nothing. I liked Holder and found some of the other characters interesting so I wanted more.
Here's the problem though - absolutely NOTHING about the first season outside of the essential mystery was interesting enough to warrant another season. Things that could have led somewhere were only shallowly explored and then pushed aside to get back to the murder. And that's the real ripoff - that the only way to get anyone to watch season two is to find out who the killer is (maybe they'll hold off on that until season three) because the character development was so shoddy and half-assed that nobody would give a good goddamn about the show if the mystery was solved. The B plots were basically threadbare, boring, nonexistent. How about some time spent on Holder and his trying-but-failing relationship with his sister and nephew? What kind of weak ass attempt was that in the episode about Jack being lost, and then never mentioned again? Which reminds me, who actually gives a f*ck about Linden's relationship with her son? NOBDOY, because the storyline hasn't made any strides since she showed him how to shoot a paintball gun.

If you are going to hitch your wagon to a SINGLE storyline to keep people hooked and then just cheaply rip it away to get you to tune in next season, that's BS, and I won't be watching next year. Simply because absolutely nothing outside of who the killer is has any depth, direction, or interest.

[Jackass18]

the plotline with Linden's fiance was dropped completely...like, without SOME sort of resolution

She was flying out there at the end of the season, so how was it dropped completely?


Here's the problem though - absolutely NOTHING about the first season outside of the essential mystery was interesting enough to warrant another season.

Maybe to you, but I'm not the type that looks to nitpick every little thing, and instead try to look for the positive. With that said, it certainly wasn't my favorite show, but I just don't think it was nearly as bad as some try to make out (like it was a complete waste of time). If I find a show to be a complete waste of time, then I stop watching. I liked The Walking Dead much better. If you didn't care about most of the characters, then I can see why you wouldn't have much interest in the show.


Things that could have led somewhere were only shallowly explored and then pushed aside to get back to the murder.

Yeah, they went a bit overboard with all the red herrings. Though, if you've ever seen a murder investigation, then there can be a lot of dead ends and false leads that lead nowhere.


How about some time spent on Holder and his trying-but-failing relationship with his sister and nephew?

Because he was better off left as more of a mysterious character. You didn't care about that cliffhanger at all? You're not left wondering about his past, why he did what he did and how he's involved?


What kind of weak ass attempt was that in the episode about Jack being lost, and then never mentioned again?

To show the frame of mind that the case put her in. It helped to show how deep and how obsessed she became.


Which reminds me, who actually gives a f*ck about Linden's relationship with her son? NOBDOY, because the storyline hasn't made any strides since she showed him how to shoot a paintball gun.

It wasn't about just the relationship, but also what the case was doing to her.


If you are going to hitch your wagon to a SINGLE storyline to keep people hooked and then just cheaply rip it away to get you to tune in next season, that's BS, and I won't be watching next year.

There wasn't a single storyline, there were 3: Rosie's death and the investigation into it, the political storyline and the family storyline.

[johndeeregreen]

She was flying out there at the end of the season, so how was it dropped completely?
She was flying out, but the way it all played out in previous episodes was that the relationship was just dead in the water.


Maybe to you, but I'm not the type that looks to nitpick every little thing, and instead try to look for the positive. With that said, it certainly wasn't my favorite show, but I just don't think it was nearly as bad as some try to make out (like it was a complete waste of time). If I find a show to be a complete waste of time, then I stop watching. I liked The Walking Dead much better. If you didn't care about most of the characters, then I can see why you wouldn't have much interest in the show.
The show isn't garbage by any means. In fact, with a decent finale, it would have been a very strong season. But you can't just take that one thread that runs through the entire season and not tie it up. If you wanted the Rosie Larsen murder arc to continue, viewers need interest/closure on other fronts - much like a Mad Men or a Breaking Bad or the Wire.


Because he was better off left as more of a mysterious character. You didn't care about that cliffhanger at all? You're not left wondering about his past, why he did what he did and how he's involved?
Not really. If they're making him a villain with this flimsy ass photograph faked evidence that would be thrown out in 0.00005 seconds then that is retardedly lame.


To show the frame of mind that the case put her in. It helped to show how deep and how obsessed she became.
But we already knew all that. To me that episode could have been much stronger had more emphasis been put on Holder.


There wasn't a single storyline, there were 3: Rosie's death and the investigation into it, the political storyline and the family storyline.
And the family storyline, while extremely powerful at times (episode 1 had tears in my eyes), faded away as the season wore on and the political one is a boring B plot, really. Like I said, there are other storylines, they just are very, very weak. The only strong arc was the murder, and now I understand just why it was left unsolved - because nothing else about the season, plotwise, would get anyone to tune in next year.

[Jackass18]

She was flying out, but the way it all played out in previous episodes was that the relationship was just dead in the water.

She became more and more engrossed in the case and her relationship took a backseat as a result. Finding Rosie's killer became more important to her than her wedding. I don't remember all the details of their relationship, but I don't think the actual relationship was all that important anyway.


But you can't just take that one thread that runs through the entire season and not tie it up. If you wanted the Rosie Larsen murder arc to continue, viewers need interest/closure on other fronts - much like a Mad Men or a Breaking Bad or the Wire.

Well, I guess I'm one of the few that doesn't require closure after just 13 episodes. I don't mind waiting. Why do you people require closure so soon? Is it because they're programmed to and anything different causes them to be uncomfortable, uneasy and/or angry?


Not really. If they're making him a villain with this flimsy ass photograph faked evidence that would be thrown out in 0.00005 seconds then that is retardedly lame.

We don't know how it'll play out.


But we already knew all that. To me that episode could have been much stronger had more emphasis been put on Holder.

She didn't freak out in other episodes like she did in that one. She seemed to hold it together before then.


And the family storyline, while extremely powerful at times (episode 1 had tears in my eyes), faded away as the season wore on and the political one is a boring B plot, really. Like I said, there are other storylines, they just are very, very weak. The only strong arc was the murder, and now I understand just why it was left unsolved - because nothing else about the season, plotwise, would get anyone to tune in next year.

But if it was resolved and gave people closure, then I don't think there'd be nearly as much outcry, and a number of people would want to tune in for a new case (especially if Holder was still seen as a good guy). Holder getting taken down probably would have turned a number of people off. I liked the family storyline throughout. I liked Stan, Mitch became more and more grating, but she left which would make a continuation of the family storyline more appealing, I found Terry interesting, and Belko ended up mixing into all 3 storylines there at the end. The political storyline wasn't all that great, but it had it's moments.

The reason why things weren't fleshed out all that much was because they wanted things (like the characters) to be mysterious and leave you wondering if they did it. You got snippets here and there that made the characters appear suspicious, but nothing really concrete about their pasts, and I can see how that would cause a problem for some.

[johndeeregreen]

Well, I guess I'm one of the few that doesn't require closure after just 13 episodes. I don't mind waiting. Why do you people require closure so soon? Is it because they're programmed to and anything different causes them to be uncomfortable, uneasy and/or angry?
Because that's why people watch television. To see what happens. I feel like you simply don't understand my point here.

Shows like Breaking Bad and Mad Men have some form of closure regarding some important plot line at the end of a season. The difference is that they have different and interesting arcs going so they don't need to tie up a main one if they don't want to. For instance, we still don't know what is going to happen between Walt and Gus, but we do know that Jesse managed to get to the chemist's apartment and kill him. Same goes for Mad Men - we aren't really sure what's going to happen with Don and some of the other characters at this point, but at least the finale had some sort of interesting developments that put some things to rest as well as made us look forward to next season.

So to sit there and act as if I'm some impatient kid who needs everything wrapped up in a pretty little bow is asinine. Had The Killing given us anything worth watching by way of plotline outside of the murder mystery, then I'd be okay with this. As it stands, the final twist was cheap, unfeasible (the charges will never stick to Richmond), and basically rehashed the episode where Stan tried to kill Bennett. In addition, it deprived all viewers of what they were tuning in for in a cash grab for season two. Given that there are no interesting plot lines or arcs whatsoever outside of the murder, not giving us an answer to the only goddamn thing we cared about in the show feels like a ripoff and a blatant and unapologetic screwjob to get us to tune into next year. Maybe some sideplots will become intriguing next year - I don't know, but I won't be watching.

[johndeeregreen]

But if it was resolved and gave people closure, then I don't think there'd be nearly as much outcry, and a number of people would want to tune in for a new case (especially if Holder was still seen as a good guy). Holder getting taken down probably would have turned a number of people off. I liked the family storyline throughout. I liked Stan, Mitch became more and more grating, but she left which would make a continuation of the family storyline more appealing, I found Terry interesting, and Belko ended up mixing into all 3 storylines there at the end. The political storyline wasn't all that great, but it had it's moments.
This is totally valid. I don't think the show will be that strong next season but I would have watched had they given us closure this year. But I won't, because I don't want to waste another 13 hours focusing on another season where they only seriously develop a single plot line and then just say "f*ck it" at the end of the year.


The reason why things weren't fleshed out all that much was because they wanted things (like the characters) to be mysterious and leave you wondering if they did it.
Come on now, there's a simple two word rebuttal to being able to explore characters and still remain mysterious: Don Draper. Completely ignoring their personalities isn't the only way to make sure we don't know who they really are.

[B]

I didn't have a problem with them carrying the season over to next year. Lots of shows do that. I doubted they'd resolve it seeing the Dutch version took 20 episodes to play out i would have been disappointed had they tried to ram 20 hours into 13. I had wondered early on what they were going to leave out to get it wrapped up in one season and now we know.

[Jackass18]

Because that's why people watch television. To see what happens. I feel like you simply don't understand my point here.

So to sit there and act as if I'm some impatient kid who needs everything wrapped up in a pretty little bow is asinine.

OK, so you seem a bit angry about it. They like taking chances instead of doing what everyone else does. If you didn't like it, then that's fine, but I'm just wondering why the outrage over the lack of closure. Is it really that much of an affront? IMO, no. I think people are overreacting. I'm not saying you're grossly overreacting, but others are. "ZOMG, they lied to me because I thought da murderererer was going to be revealed in the finale! Oh noes, the sky is falling! I was betrayed!" IMO, people are coming off as some whiny, whiny asses. Oh well, that's all I ever see on the Internet anyway, and I'm sure some emo is thinking, "Dude, you're whining, toooo!!1!!!"

It just seems odd that I get the sense that they could have slapped some halfassed resolution there at the end that, say, Richmond was the killer and I think there wouldn't be nearly as much outrage. This is odd to me. As for Breaking Bad and Mad Men, aren't they quite different shows? Weren't they supposed to be running shows all along? I believe the writers only had 2 seasons in mind for The Killing and that was it.


In addition, it deprived all viewers of what they were tuning in for in a cash grab for season two.

Cash grab? They decided on doing it this way all along, and 13 episodes is as I stated nothing. God forbid they wanted to do more than 13 friggin' episodes... Are they really being deprived when it'll be revealed in Season 2?


Given that there are no interesting plot lines or arcs whatsoever outside of the murder, not giving us an answer to the only goddamn thing we cared about in the show feels like a ripoff and a blatant and unapologetic screwjob to get us to tune into next year.

See, that's an overreaction. I'm interested to see what happens with the Belko/Richmond thing, I'm interested to see how Jamie and Gwen deal with it (granted, that's probably the least interesting thing on the list), I liked the Bennet storyline and I'm interested to see how that plays out with Stan, I'm interested with the Holder thing and I want to see how that plays out, I'm interested in how Linden deals with that, I'm interested in the family story arc, I'm happy with Mitch leaving, I want to see if Drexler finally gets his basketball arena and if he names the team the Sonics, and of course I'm interested in the murder investigation. None of that or anything else interested you at all outside of the murder investigation? People don't give a shit about Bennet? Is it because he's a Muslim?

[pete's montreux]

http://www.joblo.com/images_arrownews/mireilleenos44.jpg

http://www.ambernightdvd.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Mireille-Enos-an2.jpg

http://www2.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/2009+Lucille+Lortel+Awards+h_nj9qo-jA0l.jpg

I'd smash

[dunksby]

Great premiere, I hope this time they don't take their foot off the throttle in the middle of the season. Spoilers in white:
So the Mayor's campaign manager has been trying to frame Richmond using the dirty cop syndicate which prolly he himself has groomed all along. I think he is going rogue behind the Mayor's back if I'm interpreting the two scenes with the Mayor and his CM.
Linden is doing great and a step ahead of the dirty cops but still behind the killer whom I believe the one who was taking photos of Linden. Holder is finally back in this bitch, the curtains have risen and he chose his side-the last bit is gonna work itself out since they are still partners.

[bagelred]

Great premiere, I hope this time they don't take their foot off the throttle in the middle of the season. Spoilers in white:

I didn't read them, but why do you feel the need to post spoilers. Clearly, fans of the show don't want to know......

And why do YOU want to read them? Don't you want to surprised? I never understand that........

[Thorpesaurous]

I don't think there's many people left who actually watch this, but I definitely do. I for one really liked last season. Sure I was a little disappointed with the way it ended, but I was already expecting something stupid to happen once it was picked up for a second season.

I really liked the two hour premier. I felt like it got right back on track. I personally didn't like the implication that Holder was in on it all along that they sort of ended on last year. We knew too much about him, and frankly, if he was trying to cover up the case, he could've done so in infinitely more easy ways and long before it got that far. They're obviously setting up for a bit of work before Linden lets Holder back in. And it's nice that they've already introduced some new characters into the mix, as a lot of the people from last year had been suspicion-ed into the ground and weren't gonna cut it for me if they circled around and became hot again. It's nice that they cleared the guy running for mayor so quickly and just ended that story so they could start fresh with this dirty cop angle.


Linden is smoking hot in those pictures up there, something I should have mentioned last year when they were posted.

[Thorpesaurous]

Also, didn't the Swedish version end after the one season, and aren't we at this point into entirely fresh material?

[dunksby]

I didn't read them, but why do you feel the need to post spoilers. Clearly, fans of the show don't want to know......

And why do YOU want to read them? Don't you want to surprised? I never understand that........
Are you stupid or retarded or both? I'm trying to discuss the premiere but I have the decency to post my theories and input on the first two episodes in white. This is a discussion thread for the show if you don't want to discuss it GTFO.

[dunksby]

Also, didn't the Swedish version end after the one season, and aren't we at this point into entirely fresh material?
The Danish version is only one season yes, but I donno about the differences especially in this season.

[bagelred]

Are you stupid or retarded or both? I'm trying to discuss the premiere but I have the decency to post my theories and input on the first two episodes in white. This is a discussion thread for the show if you don't want to discuss it GTFO.

If you are just discussing theories or ideas you have, then that's not spoilers. You don't have to put them in white.

"Spoilers" means or implies advance knowledge of what's going to happen.

[Big League]

Also, didn't the Swedish version end after the one season, and aren't we at this point into entirely fresh material?
The original was 20 episodes. The American version only had 13 episodes in season one. Viewers were never actually promised closure in season 1.

[B]

I liked the first episode. Cleaned up a couple things and opened some new doors.

[dunksby]

Well last night's episode almost put everything together, this season has started off nicely.

[dunksby]

So the tattooed guy aint the killer either, that older guy who is probably a corrupt politician or a rich ass dude is the murderer. But what's his motive? is he some sadistic asshole or did Rosie see something she should not have? The way she was killed hints at the former though.
What is clear that Mayor's campaign manager tried his best to set up Richmond using Rosie which makes speculating about what really happened hard.

[Thorpesaurous]

So the tattooed guy aint the killer either, that older guy who is probably a corrupt politician or a rich ass dude is the murderer. But what's his motive? is he some sadistic asshole or did Rosie see something she should not have? The way she was killed hints at the former though.
What is clear that Mayor's campaign manager tried his best to set up Richmond using Rosie which makes speculating about what really happened hard.


Yes, was a good episode.
Strange seeing them circle back around like this. Now they're back talking to the best friend. And the old guy that Terry called and his wife answered the phone I believe was Rosie's dirtbag boyfriend's father, that kid Jasper. The wife calls for Jasper to come get breakfast just as the scene is closing. And they made a point of showing a scowling Jasper in the scene at the school with the best friend, almost like a reminder of who he was. He was their very first suspect. It just plays a little weird, because this is supposed to be like day 20 of this investigation, but the audience has been watching these days unfold over a year plus. And even if you watch them all condensed it would feel longer than that because of all the time consuming things that have happened, seems like Mitch has been gone for months when it's been maybe a week, Linden seemed to quit and move only to come back, stuff like that.

[dunksby]

Yes, was a good episode.
Strange seeing them circle back around like this. Now they're back talking to the best friend. And the old guy that Terry called and his wife answered the phone I believe was Rosie's dirtbag boyfriend's father, that kid Jasper. The wife calls for Jasper to come get breakfast just as the scene is closing. And they made a point of showing a scowling Jasper in the scene at the school with the best friend, almost like a reminder of who he was. He was their very first suspect. It just plays a little weird, because this is supposed to be like day 20 of this investigation, but the audience has been watching these days unfold over a year plus. And even if you watch them all condensed it would feel longer than that because of all the time consuming things that have happened, seems like Mitch has been gone for months when it's been maybe a week, Linden seemed to quit and move only to come back, stuff like that.
I missed the Jasper connection thanks for that, what's your theory on the motive and generally what led to Rosie's murder?

[Thorpesaurous]

I'm not sure you can really know what's coming in this show. Looking back at it, it's not so much that they intentionally lead you down the wrong path, it's that they don't give you the information to think anything else with any sort of reasonability.

But it does feel like it's going to boil down to some sort of eleborate web of guilty parties.

Right now my working theory is that Jasper's dad hired Rosie, and she of course recognized him, him being her boyfriend's father and all. Now he has to get her taken care of, so he goes back to Beau Soleil, which is run by the Russian Mob, and they have her taken care of. It isn't until then that they realize who she is, and now they feel like they have to frame something up, knowing that Stan will recognize their usual work, so they go with the Richmond car as a means to cover their tracks, and at the same time probably help out with a dirty politician whom they're probably in bed with.

That covers plenty of guilty parties, which is where I'm at now. It's gotta be more than just one loose cannon bad guy at this point.

[dunksby]

I'm not sure you can really know what's coming in this show. Looking back at it, it's not so much that they intentionally lead you down the wrong path, it's that they don't give you the information to think anything else with any sort of reasonability.

But it does feel like it's going to boil down to some sort of eleborate web of guilty parties.

Right now my working theory is that Jasper's dad hired Rosie, and she of course recognized him, him being her boyfriend's father and all. Now he has to get her taken care of, so he goes back to Beau Soleil, which is run by the Russian Mob, and they have her taken care of. It isn't until then that they realize who she is, and now they feel like they have to frame something up, knowing that Stan will recognize their usual work, so they go with the Richmond car as a means to cover their tracks, and at the same time probably help out with a dirty politician whom they're probably in bed with.

That covers plenty of guilty parties, which is where I'm at now. It's gotta be more than just one loose cannon bad guy at this point.
That's what I think as well but killing her in a manner similar to Stan's emo but making her suffer like that? I don't think that Yanich is directly responsible for her death, he owned Beau Soleil yes but murdering Stan's daughter like that would not do. I suspect Rosie saw/discovered something while dating Jasper's dad which got her killed, the whole thing is too premeditated to assume it's just about a son finding out his dad is screwing his girl.

[Thorpesaurous]

That's what I think as well but killing her in a manner similar to Stan's emo but making her suffer like that? I don't think that Yanich is directly responsible for her death, he owned Beau Soleil yes but murdering Stan's daughter like that would not do. I suspect Rosie saw/discovered something while dating Jasper's dad which got her killed, the whole thing is too premeditated to assume it's just about a son finding out his dad is screwing his girl.


I sort of felt like the MO was put in place to tie the death to Richmond. But it does seem like maybe Yanich order the killing, but left it up to Stan's last kill's kid, and he went through with it as he did for his own personal reasons.

But again, that's very much a case of my theorizing exactly what the show wants me to. And I don't think it's because I'm not that clever, I just think that's all the show has given us for data, so if you do think something else, and you happen to be right, then it's kinda just dumb luck.

Sorta like picking VCU to go to the final four last year. Just because you picked them and they made it doesn't necessarily make you a seer. It may just mean you caught lightning in a bottle, because there wasn't much in the way of empirical evidence that would've made them a wise choice. And yet even then they'd make more sense than some of the people who get votes as the killer on AMC's website for the show. I mean people vote for Stan, and maybe it somehow circles back around in some rediculous way and he turns out to be the guy, but if you're guessing it's him right now, even if it turns out you were right, it's still not a very good theory based on everything we know at the moment.

[dunksby]

I sort of felt like the MO was put in place to tie the death to Richmond. But it does seem like maybe Yanich order the killing, but left it up to Stan's last kill's kid, and he went through with it as he did for his own personal reasons.

But again, that's very much a case of my theorizing exactly what the show wants me to. And I don't think it's because I'm not that clever, I just think that's all the show has given us for data, so if you do think something else, and you happen to be right, then it's kinda just dumb luck.

Sorta like picking VCU to go to the final four last year. Just because you picked them and they made it doesn't necessarily make you a seer. It may just mean you caught lightning in a bottle, because there wasn't much in the way of empirical evidence that would've made them a wise choice. And yet even then they'd make more sense than some of the people who get votes as the killer on AMC's website for the show. I mean people vote for Stan, and maybe it somehow circles back around in some rediculous way and he turns out to be the guy, but if you're guessing it's him right now, even if it turns out you were right, it's still not a very good theory based on everything we know at the moment.
I'm not claiming anything, I was just trading theories with you, I did not think you would get offended by it. Anyway I strongly believe Alex is not the killer, they were friends in secret cause of his bad rep and direct ties to Yanich and Beau Soleil. Jasper's dad could very well be a major sponsor of the Mayor's campaign which would explain the effort to divert the attention of the police and media to Richmond on this.

[Thorpesaurous]

I'm not claiming anything, I was just trading theories with you, I did not think you would get offended by it. Anyway I strongly believe Alex is not the killer, they were friends in secret cause of his bad rep and direct ties to Yanich and Beau Soleil. Jasper's dad could very well be a major sponsor of the Mayor's campaign which would explain the effort to divert the attention of the police and media to Richmond on this.


Oh I apologize. That wasn't me being offended.

I really like the show, I just wish they left things more open ended. I like to the theorize on it, but I've found now after a year plus that there's not much you can theorize on. They make you feel like it could be anyone, but at any one time if you think about it, they're really only force feeding you one possible answer.
There's was a stretch there four episodes in last season where it simply could not have been anyone other than the teacher. If you thought it was anyone else, you'd be straight guessing. It's gotten to the point now where the thing that most makes me think someone is not the killer is when the show is insistant that they are. That makes it seem pretty likely that you're right, Alexi can't be the killer, mostly because everything points to it being him. It's weird. I still very much enjoy it though.

I think we might be the last two left watching it.

[dunksby]

Oh I apologize. That wasn't me being offended.

I really like the show, I just wish they left things more open ended. I like to the theorize on it, but I've found now after a year plus that there's not much you can theorize on. They make you feel like it could be anyone, but at any one time if you think about it, they're really only force feeding you one possible answer.
There's was a stretch there four episodes in last season where it simply could not have been anyone other than the teacher. If you thought it was anyone else, you'd be straight guessing. It's gotten to the point now where the thing that most makes me think someone is not the killer is when the show is insistant that they are. That makes it seem pretty likely that you're right, Alexi can't be the killer, mostly because everything points to it being him. It's weird. I still very much enjoy it though.

I think we might be the last two left watching it.
It's funny how now that the show has become better than it ever was in the first season, aside from the pilot, not many show interest :lol

[Black Joker]

the Jasper thing was something i totally forgot about. now things like that are what make me happy i read this thread

[dunksby]

I just caught up with the new season. It's been a vast improvement to the first two seasons IMO. I started to suspect the pastor a few episodes in but I guess the 3rd seasons is not about the mystery around the identity of the killer. It's about wading through a serial killer's psyche and his motivations while characterizing the victims as well. Although we don't meet the 17 previous victims, through the runaway girls scenes we get to know about the potential targets who are mostly similar to the dead ones. Last two seasons we never got to understand nor much about Rosie, neither her aunt, while everything about the long awaited reveal was anti-climactic. Season 3 though has been fast paced and rich. 9/10 so far.

[Graviton]

I just caught up with the new season. It's been a vast improvement to the first two seasons IMO. I started to suspect the pastor a few episodes in but I guess the 3rd seasons is not about the mystery around the identity of the killer. It's about wading through a serial killer's psyche and his motivations while characterizing the victims as well. Although we don't meet the 17 previous victims, through the runaway girls scenes we get to know about the potential targets who are mostly similar to the dead ones. Last two seasons we never got to understand nor much about Rosie, neither her aunt, while everything about the long awaited reveal was anti-climactic. Season 3 though has been fast paced and rich. 9/10 so far.


Is this series similar to Hannibal? I may have to watch season 3 if catching up on the other 2 seasons isn't necessary.

[Jackass18]

I don't think watching the first 2 seasons is necessary. The 3rd season is a completely different case. You might not know as much about Linden and Holder, but I don't think it really matters.

[Thorpesaurous]

I just caught up with the new season. It's been a vast improvement to the first two seasons IMO. I started to suspect the pastor a few episodes in but I guess the 3rd seasons is not about the mystery around the identity of the killer. It's about wading through a serial killer's psyche and his motivations while characterizing the victims as well. Although we don't meet the 17 previous victims, through the runaway girls scenes we get to know about the potential targets who are mostly similar to the dead ones. Last two seasons we never got to understand nor much about Rosie, neither her aunt, while everything about the long awaited reveal was anti-climactic. Season 3 though has been fast paced and rich. 9/10 so far.


Season three has been really enjoyable so far. Much better than season two in my mind, and better than season one as well, although part of my issue with season one was that the end left such a bad taste in my mouth. That really needed closure right there.

There's a thread on the current season though, and it's only two pages long so far, but you should check it out. There's some decent stuff in there.

[Thorpesaurous]

I don't think watching the first 2 seasons is necessary. The 3rd season is a completely different case. You might not know as much about Linden and Holder, but I don't think it really matters.



Yeah, watching the first two seasons isn't necessary at all. Other than the limited info you get on the fact that Linden became obsessed over this previous case, you're not gonna miss out on anything regarding this case from those first two seasons.

[dunksby]

Season three has been really enjoyable so far. Much better than season two in my mind, and better than season one as well, although part of my issue with season one was that the end left such a bad taste in my mouth. That really needed closure right there.

There's a thread on the current season though, and it's only two pages long so far, but you should check it out. There's some decent stuff in there.
Agreed, two whole seasons for just one murder was too much. I'm gonna check out the new thread as well, didn't notice it at first.