You call this "carrying" another player?

[Colby Brian]

Shaq's playoff stats

2000- 30.7, 15.4, 3.1
2001- 30.4, 15.4, 3.2
2002- 28.5, 12.6, 2.8
2003- 27.0, 14.8, 3.7
2004- 21.5, 13.2, 2.5

Kobe's playoff stats

2000- 21.1, 4.5, 4.4
2001- 29.4, 7.3, 6.1
2002- 26.6, 5.8, 4.6
2003- 32.1, 5.1, 5.2
2004- 24.5, 4.7, 5.5

(year- pts, reb, ast)

2001 2nd Round Playoffs Kobe Bryant vs Sacramento Kings

35.0 ppg 9.0 rpg 4.3 apg 47%fg 20%3P 86%FT

2001 3rd Round Playoffs Kobe Bryant vs San Antonio Spurs

33.3 ppg 7.0 rpg 7.0 apg 51%fg 36%3P 77%FT

2003 1st Round Playoffs Kobe Bryant vs Minnesota Timberwolves

31.8 ppg 5.2 rpg 6.7 apg 43%fg 36%3P 87%FT

2000 WCF game 7

kobe - 25/11/7
shaq - 18/9/5

2001 playoffs
shaq 30.4 ppg
kobe 29.4 ppg
1.0 ppg difference

2002 playoffs
shaq 28.5 ppg
kobe 26.6 ppg
1.9 ppg difference

You call this carrying?

http://lakers.topbuzz.com/gallery/d/454-1/kobe-shaq-magic-174765_480_art_R0.jpg

[AlphaWolf24]

only the basketball illiterate.....

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

FG%, WS, and PER.

/sit

[SCdac]

you think highly of Kobe... I think everybody on this board understands that by now.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

The Shaq-Kobe threepeat is the most misunderstood era in basketball history. The media and casual fan was so busy trying to decide who was better among the two that they forget the real story which is they did it without a credible 3rd HOF or even a 3rd all star.

The most dominant playoff team of all time 3rd best player had a below league average PER and a defensive supporting cast that netted them the 21st best Defense in the league :applause:

[Colby Brian]

FG%, WS, and PER.

/sit

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career.html
lebron 2nd greatest, david robinson 4th, chris paul 8th :bowdown:
larry bird 19th, magic 13th
:lol

[oh the horror]

Dude, anyone without undeniable hatred toward Kobe should be able to acknowledge that Kobe was a force in those playoffs as well.


BUT...I will say, Shaq, was just a fu*king MACHINE though.


The problem with media, and most fans that sink their teeth into media, is that they're always trying to find the "best player" in every scenario. The best player in the league, the best player on a team, yada yada...



EVEN NOW we're seeing the same shit with Wade, and Lebron. Who's team is it?


WHO CARES? None of those players play second fiddle to the other, and if they win a ring in the end, then cant people accept that?



Kobe was putting up monster stats of his own there on average.

[AlphaWolf24]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career.html
lebron 2nd greatest, david robinson 4th, chris paul 8th :bowdown:
larry bird 19th, magic 13th
:lol


Pwned...NEXT


Kevin Love>Magic , Bird , DR.J:lol

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career.html
lebron 2nd greatest, david robinson 4th, chris paul 8th :bowdown:
larry bird 19th, magic 13th
:lol

Yup, but its called putting everything together. You posted the correct stats, just not all of them. :lol

Leaving FG% out is like shooting yourself in the foot.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Yup, but its called putting everything together. You posted the correct stats, just not all of them. :lol

Leaving FG% out is like shooting yourself in the foot.

Eddy Curry has a higher FG% than Wilt Chamberlain

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Eddy Curry has a higher FG% than Wilt Chamberlain

Eddy Curry doesn't have a comparable volume of points or FGA to Wilt.

[Colby Brian]

Yup, but its called putting everything together. You posted the correct stats, just not all of them. :lol

Leaving FG% out is like shooting yourself in the foot.

shaqs a center, kobes a guard
post players like pf and c, shoot inside the paint >5ft mostly
guards shoot more perimeter shots, and dont camp out in the paint like centers
how about i post free throw % :lol

whos gonna have a higher fg%, a perimeter player or post player?

[Celtics 1825]

http://incorrectbasketballknowledge.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/shaq-and-kobe1.jpg

See, he carried him!

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

shaqs a center, kobes a guard
post players like pf and c, shoot inside the paint >5ft mostly
guards shoot more perimeter shots, and dont camp out in the paint like centers
how about i post free throw % :lol

whos gonna have a higher fg%, a perimeter player or post player?

Who cares? Shaq was far more efficient than Kobe regardless, thus he had more impact. Kobe was and still is a volume scorer.

Please stop posting.

[Colby Brian]

http://incorrectbasketballknowledge.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/shaq-and-kobe1.jpg

See, he carried him!

lol:lol

[Colby Brian]

Who cares? Shaq was far more efficient than Kobe regardless, thus he had more impact. Kobe was and still is a volume scorer.

Please stop posting.

career TS%

shaq - 58.6%
kobe - 55.6%

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

career TS%

shaq - 58.6%
kobe - 55.6%

:confusedshrug: Shaq's % is still better despite not shooting 3's.

FG% is a better measure of efficiency; showing you how dominant both players were. It takes into account shot selection and how missed shots hurt the teams scoring, transition defense, etc.

[Colby Brian]

:confusedshrug: Shaq's % is still better despite not shooting 3's.

FG% is a better measure of efficiency; showing you how dominant both players were. It takes into account shot selection and how missed shots hurt the teams scoring, transition defense, etc.

bro im not saying shaq wasnt dominant, hes top 5-10 all time

[the_wise_one]

The Shaq-Kobe threepeat is the most misunderstood era in basketball history. The media and casual fan was so busy trying to decide who was better among the two that they forget the real story which is they did it without a credible 3rd HOF or even a 3rd all star.


The 3rd HOFer in that team is David Stern.

[olddangerfield]

The Shaq-Kobe threepeat is the most misunderstood era in basketball history. The media and casual fan was so busy trying to decide who was better among the two that they forget the real story which is they did it without a credible 3rd HOF or even a 3rd all star.

The most dominant playoff team of all time 3rd best player had a below league average PER and a defensive supporting cast that netted them the 21st best Defense in the league :applause:
This is pretty much the reality of what actually happened during those championships. Yes Shaq was definitively the "1st option" so to speak just because he was such a dominant force in the paint, a region of the court you have to win in order to have success in the playoffs.

It's like the line of scrimmage in football or the inside part of the plate in baseball. It's a place where most games, especially tight games, are decided. Centers are picked so high in the draft because they are able to dominant that portion of the court so well. With that said, if Shaq was their 1st option Kobe was the Lakers 2nd and 3rd options, because outside of those two they really didn't have anybody else, at least nobody that contributed consistently on a nightly basis like those two, and even more so in the playoffs.

The Lakers would start the game during that era by feeding Shaq in the post until about 3 minutes left into the 4th quarter and then Kobe would step in, either by creating for himself or others. That's not to say Shaq never scored in the 4th quarter or he never closed for the Lakers because he contributed on some nights as well but come 4th quarter time the Lakers would intentionally run stuff for Kobe, especially since Shaq was such a liability at the free throw line.

Say what you want about Kobe because he was still a huge reason why the Lakers did so well in 00-04 and he became such a big part of the team in 03 and 04 that somehow both Shaq and Kobe couldnt accept the fact that they only one of them could be the best player on that team. Jerry and Dr.Buss saw this coming and they obviously choose who they thought was at the time the best player of that team and who would continue to be for the next decade.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

This is pretty much the reality of what actually happened during those championships. Yes Shaq was definitively the "1st option" so to speak just because he was such a dominant force in the paint, a region of the court you have to win in order to have success in the playoffs.

It's like the line of scrimmage in football or the inside part of the plate in baseball. It's a place where most games, especially tight games, are decided. Centers are picked so high in the draft because they are able to dominant that portion of the court so well. With that said, if Shaq was their 1st option Kobe was the Lakers 2nd and 3rd options, because outside of those two they really didn't have anybody else, at least nobody that contributed consistently on a nightly basis like those two, and even more so in the playoffs.

The Lakers would start the game during that era by feeding Shaq in the post until about 3 minutes left into the 4th quarter and then Kobe would step in, either by creating for himself or others. That's not to say Shaq never scored in the 4th quarter or he never closed for the Lakers because he contributed on some nights as well but come 4th quarter time the Lakers would intentionally run stuff for Kobe, especially since Shaq was such a liability at the free throw line.

Say what you want about Kobe because he was still a huge reason why the Lakers did so well in 00-04 and he became such a big part of the team in 03 and 04 that somehow both Shaq and Kobe couldnt accept the fact that they only one of them could be the best player on that team. Jerry and Dr.Buss saw this coming and they obviously choose who they thought was at the time the best player of that team and who would continue to be for the next decade.

Very accurate post especially the part about how outside of Kobe and Shaq the Lakers were very mediocre. You got some contributions from guys like Horry and Fox and Fisher every once in a while but those 3 peat teams were really a 2 headed monster in Kobe and Shaq. A lot of times commentators would even mention that as well. That it was like a two man team because Kobe and Shaq would combine for over half of the team's points most of the time.

[Colby Brian]

The 3rd HOFer in that team is David Stern.

http://www.auburntron.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/umad.jpg

http://thelakersnation.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Screen-shot-2010-11-25-at-4.14.29-PM.png

[hkfosho]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc2yQSNJ8Kc&feature=channel_video_title


although i think this guy is a loud mouth fvcktard, he has a point


hence, sit

[Colby Brian]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc2yQSNJ8Kc&feature=channel_video_title


although i think this guy is a loud mouth fvcktard, he has a point


hence, sit

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/1%20Miami%20Heat/umadmiamiheat-kobebryant-1.jpg

http://www.lakersuniverse.com/kobe/kobe_bryant_achievements.htm

top 10 all time

[Yao Ming's Foot]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc2yQSNJ8Kc&feature=channel_video_title


although i think this guy is a loud mouth fvcktard, he has a point


hence, sit

Can't be that great of a point if he has to moderate the youtube comments :confusedshrug:

[donald_trump]

so people come in with a different opinion and all the op can do is post u mad pictures... lol

[Colby Brian]

so people come in with a different opinion and all the op can do is post u mad pictures... lol

only the stupid opinions like "kobes the most overrated", or "david stern gave lakers rings"

[hkfosho]

only the stupid opinions like "kobes the most overrated", or "david stern gave lakers rings"

what do you have to say about this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCcPFX5g_HI&feature=channel_video_title

yeah, sit.

[Colby Brian]

what do you have to say about this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCcPFX5g_HI&feature=channel_video_title

yeah, sit.

lol thats a kobe hater, its pretty obvoius, he hates kobe soo much

anyways read my post

by the way
2000 WCF game 7

kobe - 25/11/7
shaq - 18/9/5

a 21 yr old kobe more points, rebounds, and assists than a prime shaq in game 7

yeah, sit and read my first post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmhzDca63yg later changed it to 6th

[Colby Brian]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200006040LAL.html

[hkfosho]

lol thats a kobe hater, its pretty obvoius, he hates kobe soo much

anyways read my post

by the way
2000 WCF game 7

kobe - 25/11/7
shaq - 18/9/5

a 21 yr old kobe more points, rebounds, and assists than a prime shaq in game 7

yeah, sit and read my first post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmhzDca63yg later changed it to 6th

so the guy I linked to showed all the stats from 99-02 during playoffs and all you can come up with is one game from WCF? Pathetic :lol

and you go on to link charles barkley of all ppl to try and back your statements.

EPIC FAIL

[Colby Brian]

so the guy I linked to showed all the stats from 99-02 during playoffs and all you can come up with is one game from WCF? Pathetic :lol

and you go on to link charles barkley of all ppl to try and back your statements.

EPIC FAIL

lol you linked me with bruceblitz EPIC FAIL

playoff numbers from 2000-2004 are on my first post by the way

[Bone Machine]

FG%, WS, and PER.

/sit

Acronyms make no sense. Only stat that matters.... Winning.

[Colby Brian]

titles without each other

shaq - 1
kobe - 2

[hkfosho]

titles without each other

shaq - 1
kobe + gasol- 2

fixed

[Colby Brian]

fixed

true

but

titles without each other

shaq + wade (fmvp) = 1
kobe (2 fmvp) + gasol = 2

[24r2]

gasol 0-12 b4 kobe

[Colby Brian]

gasol 0-12 b4 kobe

its actually 0-8 in playoffs b4 kobe

[christian1923]

no one can carry a team lik this tho

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0GXdQdDLKM

[OldSchoolBBall]

The most dominant playoff team of all time 3rd best player had a below league average PER and a defensive supporting cast that netted them the 21st best Defense in the league :applause:

And yet somehow they managed to have the best defense in the postseason in 2001 BY FAR (playoff DRtg of 97.9 versus the second place team with 100.9, an astronomical difference; they held opponents to < 91 ppg and < 41% FG). Let's not act like the '01 Lakers were anything other than a stellar defensive team.

[whoartthou]

We are not worthy. :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

The mamba spewed his icy venom on all opponents in that 3 peat.. making him the obvious GOAT.

Shaq without kobe = BALD HEADED KEMP

[Colby Brian]

http://slamonline.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/kobetrophies.jpg

old skool kobe

[seoerizer]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career.html
lebron 2nd greatest, david robinson 4th, chris paul 8th :bowdown:
larry bird 19th, magic 13th
:lol
Yao Ming 21st, Jerry West 22nd........ :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Harion]

why the fk would you bother asking the question if you already have your mind made up and you're just going to dismiss everyone else's answers? fkn retard. just keep your opinion to yourself coz you're not gonna change anyone else's.

Shaq carried Kobe. and that's it. Gasol carried Kobe. Artest bailed out Kobe. fk Kobe. he's the most undeserving NBA champion i've ever seen.

now post your u mad pics. coz that's all you can do.

[Toizumi]

Kobe played a bigger role (as the nr 2 guy) during the threepeat, than Gasol has the past two years, but both were not their team's biggest star player when they won it all.

With prime Shaq, stats don't tell the story. His presence alone was huge. Shaq was without a doubt the team's biggest star. It's not like teams do not need their 2nd options to 'carry' them to wins.
If you watch that WCF 2000 game 7 (and believe me, as a Blazers fan I've watched that game too often for my own good :oldlol: ) you'll see that Kobe didn't carry the team in that specific game though. More like a team effort really. Shaq made some big buckets at the end there too. It's on youtube, great game if you havent seen it.

Kobe was already a great player during those playoffs.. more than you're regular second option. A true star..
But so was Pippen (my favorite player of all time) and he will always be regarded as the 2nd option to Jordan. Kobe was the 2nd option to Shaq like Pip was to MJ... And that's not insult at all.

[Christofire]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career.html
lebron 2nd greatest, david robinson 4th, chris paul 8th :bowdown:
larry bird 19th, magic 13th
:lol
LOL at Chris BOSH being better than Ewing and Webber....PER does it again

[d.bball.guy]

http://incorrectbasketballknowledge.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/shaq-and-kobe1.jpg

See, he carried him!
Beat me to it!:lol

[Dragonyeuw]

I'd say Shaq may have carried the 2000 squad somewhat, with Kobe still playing a strong supporting role. BUT, Kobe made a monumental step forward as a player between the first championship and the following seasons. The last two championships in 2001 and 2002,were closer to 1a and 1b, than 1 and 2. Because Kobe was too important as a playmaker, clutch scorer, and perimeter defender to say that he was a mere supporting player for 2 of those titles.

[Calabis]

true

but

titles without each other

shaq + wade (fmvp) = 1
kobe (2 fmvp) + gasol = 2

And titles with each other

Shaq (fmvp)= 3
Kobe =0
:roll:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Acronyms make no sense. Only stat that matters.... Winning.

Well start reading up on them. Winning matters, but so does context.

Otherwise, Robert Horry >>>> anyone this ERA

[BEAST Griffin]

Prime Shaq's impact goes far beyond the numbers.

Shaq's impact was on a whole other level than Kobe's impact.

Kobe was a sidekick. Deal with it.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Prime Shaq's impact goes far beyond the numbers.

Kobe was a sidekick. Deal with it.

"In Bryant's exit interview with him he stated that O'Neal's fate with the Lakers would affect his decision to return, saying "I'm tired of being a sidekick."

He was sidekick, even he acknowledges it. Not sure why stans are getting riled up?

[Christofire]

Kobe is overrated because his career FG% is 46?....

pretty lame grounds to be considered overrated on

[Calabis]

Kobe is overrated because his career FG% is 46?....

pretty lame grounds to be considered overrated on

No Kobe is overrated when people consider him GOAT....he is a all time great, leave it at that

[AlphaWolf24]

Well start reading up on them. Winning matters, but so does context.

Otherwise, Robert Horry >>>> anyone this ERA


01' Playoff's Kobe = 29PPG 7reb 6ast

06' Playoff's wade = 28PPG 6reb 6ast

Kobe was putting up better Post seasons as a "sidekick" then Wade's best year

in "context"

[AlphaWolf24]

Prime Shaq's impact goes far beyond the numbers.

Shaq's impact was on a whole other level than Kobe's impact.

Kobe was a sidekick. Deal with it.


yup...Shaq was so great he won 1 title as a "sidekick" despite playing on 7 50+ win teams without Kobe..

he was so dominate he won 1 title as a sidekick....


NEXT

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

01' Playoff's Kobe = 29PPG 7reb 6ast

06' Playoff's wade = 28PPG 6reb 6ast

Kobe was putting up better Post seasons as a "sidekick" then Wade's best year

in "context"

What? 28/6/5 on 50% shooting > 29/6/6 on 47%, pretty easily. Especially when you take into account both their Finals appearances. 'Sidekick-Wade' had a Finals appearance Kobe couldn't even dream about.

Wade was so great, he made Shaq (Kobe's master), a sidekick.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

01' Playoff's Kobe = 29PPG 7reb 6ast

06' Playoff's wade = 28PPG 6reb 6ast

Kobe was putting up better Post seasons as a "sidekick" then Wade's best year

in "context"

Especially when you consider the defenses they faced...

01 Spurs 98.0
01 76ers 98.9
01 Kings 99.6
01 Blazers 101.8

vs

06 Nets 102.4
06 Pistons 103.1
06 Bulls 103.4
06 Mavs 105.0

[Christofire]

What? 28/6/5 on 50% shooting > 29/6/6 on 47%, pretty easily. Especially when you take into account both their Finals appearances. 'Sidekick-Wade' had a Finals appearance Kobe couldn't even dream about.

Wade was so great, he made Shaq (Kobe's master), a sidekick.


OOOHHH!!!! 47% is like so much less than 50%.......the 1 missed sshot difference is so crucial to the outcome of games......fvck outta here with BS....

it's 3%

[Yao Ming's Foot]

What? 28/6/5 on 50% shooting > 29/6/6 on 47%, pretty easily. Especially when you take into account both their Finals appearances. 'Sidekick-Wade' had a Finals appearance Kobe couldn't even dream about.

Wade was so great, he made Shaq (Kobe's master), a sidekick.

True Kobe can only dream about facing a defense that weak in the Finals.

[Christofire]

Especially when you consider the defenses they faced...

01 Spurs 98.0
01 76ers 98.9
01 Kings 99.6
01 Blazers 101.8

vs

06 Nets 102.4
06 Pistons 103.1
06 Bulls 103.4
06 Mavs 105.0

Kobe did it in the Zone + Hand-checx Era..very impressive. that 3 year span was the toughest period of basketball to score in.

[Odinn]

"In Bryant's exit interview with him he stated that O'Neal's fate with the Lakers would affect his decision to return, saying "I'm tired of being a sidekick."

He was sidekick, even he acknowledges it. Not sure why stans are getting riled up?
They see what they wanna see. They need to prove their point to make themselves "I'm not the one who thinks like this". They won't be able to succeed but seeing their effort is so much fun. :roll:

[AlphaWolf24]

What? 28/6/5 on 50% shooting > 29/6/6 on 47%, pretty easily. Especially when you take into account both their Finals appearances. 'Sidekick-Wade' had a Finals appearance Kobe couldn't even dream about.

Wade was so great, he made Shaq (Kobe's master), a sidekick.


Oh...No...No...NO.....In context Kobe's WCFinals appearance against the San Antonio Spurs 33 7 and 7 was much better then Wade against the Mavericks..

In context Duncans Spurs>Nowinski's Mavs ....Duncan's Spurs are a Dynamic team .....in context Kobe's performance was better against a greater team....

01' the real Championship was the WCFinals...in context.


Kobe as a "sidekick" 01' = 29PPG 6reb 5ast ....Playoff's = 29PPG 7reb 6ast

Wade as the "man" 06' = 27PPG 6reb 7ast....Playoff's = 28PPG 6reb 6ast



NEXT..

[Showtime]

Who was the most important player?
Who was the guy defenses gameplanned against and were most worried about?
Who was the guy putting starting frontlines in foul trouble?
Who was the guy putting teams in the penalty early, giving his team the edge?
Who was the guy drawing double teams, leaving openings for his perimeter teammates?

Post all the numbers you want, anybody who watched the team knows who the most important and best player was.

[BallsOut]

Who was the most important player?
Who was the guy defenses gameplanned against and were most worried about?
Who was the guy putting starting frontlines in foul trouble?
Who was the guy putting teams in the penalty early, giving his team the edge?
Who was the guy drawing double teams, leaving openings for his perimeter teammates?

Post all the numbers you want, anybody who watched the team knows who the most important and best player was.

1. In the first 3 quarters Shaq because he sucked ass at FT shooting. You don't win games in 3 quarters though. Kobe was their closer in the 4th so its arguable. That's why Shaq didn't win any rings before then.

2. Shaq duh

3. No shit Shaq plays in the frontlines. Alternate question is who was the guy putting the opposing team's backcourt in trouble. Clear bias in your questions.

4. Shaq, but who was the guy stopping the other team's best wing players? Kobe

5. Shaq, but again clear bias in how you chose the questions. Who was the guy drawing double teams from the perimeter leaving openings for his inside teammates? Kobe

Two can play that game. Sidekicks don't throw up 29/6/5. Especially when the main guy puts up a few more points and rbs in a different position.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Oh...No...No...NO.....In context Kobe's WCFinals appearance against the San Antonio Spurs 33 7 and 7 was much better then Wade against the Mavericks..

Against who? Context? Avery Johnson and Terry Porter? SA's swingmen were injured. Again, 28/6/5 on 50% > 29/6/7 47% all day. Especially when you're the number one option and not a sidekick like Kobe was.

27/6/7 on 49% shooting, as a leader >>>> 28/6/5 on 46% shooting as a sidekick
28/6/6 on 50% shooting, as a leader >> 29/7/6 on 47% shooting as a sidekick

2EZZZ

[Showtime]

1. In the first 3 quarters Shaq because he sucked ass at FT shooting. You don't win games in 3 quarters though. Kobe was their closer in the 4th so its arguable. That's why Shaq didn't win any rings before then.

False.




3. No shit Shaq plays in the frontlines. Alternate question is who was the guy putting the opposing team's backcourt in trouble. Clear bias in your questions.

Kobe wasn't putting guys in foul trouble to the extent to CHANGE THE ENTIRE GAME.


4. Shaq, but who was the guy stopping the other team's best wing players? Kobe

Who did he ever stop? He was a better defender at that time, but he wasn't shutting down guys, and players he did face off against in the playoffs weren't the team's best guys. Shaq was playing against teams that revolved around post play with a few exceptions.


5. Shaq, but again clear bias in how you chose the questions. Who was the guy drawing double teams from the perimeter leaving openings for his inside teammates? Kobe

It's not a biased question when it's an important aspect to the game. Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean there's something wrong with the question. One of the major aspects to any low post threat is the ability to draw double teams. Not only is that a sign of an effective low post scorer, but also one who can create without scoring. Shaq was such a load that all he had to do was get position and the ball and he was able to create for others.

And Kobe wasn't double-teamed that much at all. If you actually watched them play, defenses couldn't afford to double Kobe unless it was a collapsing defense on a dribble drive. They had legit shooters at every position. Fisher, Rice, Horry, Fox, etc etc. Shaq drew the most attention, creating openings for his teammates that Kobe was able to exploit.


Two can play that game. Sidekicks don't throw up 29/6/5. Especially when the main guy puts up a few more points and rbs in a different position.

Call him whatever you want. Sidekick, Co-Star, 1B, etc. Whatever you want to call him, he wasn't the team's best player, nor was he the team's most important piece.

[Blue&Orange]

"In Bryant's exit interview with him he stated that O'Neal's fate with the Lakers would affect his decision to return, saying "I'm tired of being a sidekick."

He was sidekick, even he acknowledges it. Not sure why stans are getting riled up?
Bastard! You just made the OP cry.

[AlphaWolf24]

Against who? Context? Avery Johnson and Terry Porter? SA's swingmen were injured. Again, 28/6/5 on 50% > 29/6/7 47% all day. Especially when you're the number one option and not a sidekick like Kobe was.

27/6/7 on 49% shooting, as a leader >>>> 28/6/5 on 46% shooting as a sidekick
28/6/6 on 50% shooting, as a leader >> 29/7/6 on 47% shooting as a sidekick

2EZZZ


Wade: 1 season of 28+ ppg, 3 seasons of 5+ rpg, 6 seasons of 6+ apg but also 3 seasons of 4+ TO per game, and a 56.5 career TS%.

Kobe: 5 seasons of 28+ppg, 12 seasons of 5+ rpg, 8 seasons of 5+ apg with one 6+ (in the triangle) with only one season of 4+ TO, and a 55.7 career TS%.

Now for the playoffs:
Wade's top runs -
33/6/7 for 5 games
29/5/5 for 7 games
28/6/6 for 23 games
27/6/7 for 14 games

Kobe's top runs -
33/5/4 for 5 games
32/5/5 for 12 games
30/5/6 for 23 games
30/6/6 for 21 games
29/7/6 for 16 games
29/6/6 for 23 games
28/6/5 for 7 games
27/6/5 for 19 games

So, where in all of this is Wade's supposed better stats than Kobe as a "sidekick"?



NEXT...

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Wade: 1 season of 28+ ppg, 3 seasons of 5+ rpg, 6 seasons of 6+ apg but also 3 seasons of 4+ TO per game, and a 56.5 career TS%.
Kobe: 5 seasons of 28+ppg, 12 seasons of 5+ rpg, 8 seasons of 5+ apg with one 6+ (in the triangle) with only one season of 4+ TO, and a 55.7 career TS%.

Career averages:
Kobe - 25/5/5/ on .451% shooting - 25/5/5 on .448% shooting in the postseason

Wade - 25/5/6 on .485% shooting - 26/5/6 on .482% shooting in the postseason

Wade >>>> Kobe by a mile


33/5/4 for 5 games
32/5/5 for 12 games
30/5/6 for 23 games
30/6/6 for 21 games
29/7/6 for 16 games
29/6/6 for 23 games
28/6/5 for 7 games
27/6/5 for 19 games

His FG%??? :roll:


So, where in all of this is Wade's supposed better stats than Kobe as a "sidekick"?

Get at me when Kobe has a Jordanesque Finals performance like Wade had vs. Dallas: 34.7 ppg 7.8 rpg 3.8 apg 1.0 bpg 2.7 spg 46.8 fg%

2EZZZZZ, kid.

[AlphaWolf24]

Showtime - False.

TRUE...

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/user_images/2173000/AlphaWolf-2173769_596_800.jpg






Kobe wasn't putting guys in foul trouble to the extent to CHANGE THE ENTIRE GAME.


WTF?..Kobe was a first team all defense in 2000 and Carrying the Lakers in the 4th when Shaq himself was prone to foul trouble and didn't have the skillset to be a closer.


Who did he ever stop? He was a better defender at that time, but he wasn't shutting down guys, and players he did face off against in the playoffs weren't the team's best guys. Shaq was playing against teams that revolved around post play with a few exceptions.



again..Kobe was a top shelf defender at 21 years old playing a stretched out defensive game...Shaq had to worry about interior defense...Kobe's defensive responsibility was much more stretched out.


It's not a biased question when it's an important aspect to the game. Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean there's something wrong with the question. One of the major aspects to any low post threat is the ability to draw double teams. Not only is that a sign of an effective low post scorer, but also one who can create without scoring. Shaq was such a load that all he had to do was get position and the ball and he was able to create for others.

And Kobe wasn't double-teamed that much at all. If you actually watched them play, defenses couldn't afford to double Kobe unless it was a collapsing defense on a dribble drive. They had legit shooters at every position. Fisher, Rice, Horry, Fox, etc etc. Shaq drew the most attention, creating openings for his teammates that Kobe was able to exploit.


What a bunch of crap!...Shaq played on many great teams without Kobe and never sniffed the success he had with #8....Shaq drew a double team :confusedshrug: that does not equate to winning ...if it did, Shaq would have been just as dominate on the 6+ 50 win teams he played on without Kobe.....instead he won 1 as a "sidekick"...meanwhile Kobe is working on his 2nd 3peat



Call him whatever you want. Sidekick, Co-Star, 1B, etc. Whatever you want to call him, he wasn't the team's best player, nor was he the team's most important piece.


He was the teams best allaround player.....he was the teams best player for 2 of the Title runs..he was the first option in the most important part of the game...IMO he was the most important piece....and that's why he's continuing to play top shelf basketball.....and will continue to do so.


recognize game when it's in your face....betta call da amberlamps....

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

"In Bryant's exit interview with him he stated that O'Neal's fate with the Lakers would affect his decision to return, saying "I'm tired of being a sidekick."

You gonna argue your boys own words?

Paging Alphawolf...:oldlol:

[AlphaWolf24]

kuniva_dAMiGhTy - Career averages:
Kobe - 25/5/5/ on .451% shooting - 25/5/5 on .448% shooting in the postseason

Wade - 25/5/6 on .485% shooting - 26/5/6 on .482% shooting in the postseason

Wade >>>> Kobe by a mile

Kobe ages 21 - 31 (10 years) - 28.5PPG 6.3rebs 5.4ast 7 NBA Finals 5 Championships....




His FG%??? :roll:

Kobe Bryant

2PT%------------------------>48.3%
3PT%(eFG)------------------>33.9%
FT%-------------------------->83.7%
TS%(2PT%+ 3PT%+ FT%)-->55.7%

Michael Jordan

2PT%------------------------>51.0%
3PT%(eFG)------------------>32.7%
FT%-------------------------->83.5%
TS%(2PT%+ 3PT%+ FT%)-->56.9%

Overall, in points per possesion kobe is behind michael by only 1.2% because he is marginally a better FT shooter, and he takes and makes a lot more threes(the main reason he's so behind in FG%). But overall, with all factors considered he's literally behind jordan by only 1.2% in overall efficiency. It's amazing how people downplay kobe's FG% without taking into account he took 3X the amount of threes, was more efficient from beyond the arc, and was marginally a better FT shooter..




Get at me when Kobe has a Jordanesque Finals performance like Wade had vs. Dallas: 34.7 ppg 7.8 rpg 3.8 apg 1.0 bpg 2.7 spg 46.8 fg%


2001 Playoff's Kobe

RD 1 vs Portland = 25.0PPG 4.3REB 7.7AST 2.3 STL

RD 2 vs Sacramento = 35.0PPG 9.0REB 4.3AST 1.3 STL

RD 3 vs San Antonio = 33.3PPG 7.0REB 7.0AST 1.5 STL (The real NBA Finals)

Finals vs Philly = 24.6PPG 7.8 REB 5.8AST 1.4 STL

TOT = 29.4PPG 7.3REB 6.1AST 1.6STL

2006 playoff's Wade

RD 1 vs Chicago = 24.7 PPG 4.5 REB 7.2 AST 2.0STL

RD 2 vs New Jersey = 27.6 PPG 6.0 REB 6.6 AST 2.4STL

RD 3 vs Detroit = 26.7 PPG 5.2 REB 5.5 AST 1.8STL

Finals vs Dallas = 34.7 PPG 7.8 REB 3.8 AST 2.7 STL

TOT = 28.4 PPG 5.9 REB 5.7AST 2.2 STL


Kobe as a "sidekick">Wade as the "man"....Kobe against the 06' Mavs....= Outscoring the whole team in 3 quarters.

01' 76rs , Spurs, Kings and Blazers> 06' Mavs , Bulls , Nets and Pistons




2EZZZZZ, kid.


(yawns).....

[AlphaWolf24]

"In Bryant's exit interview with him he stated that O'Neal's fate with the Lakers would affect his decision to return, saying "I'm tired of being a sidekick."

You gonna argue your boys own words?

Paging Alphawolf...:oldlol:


01 ' Shaq - "Kobe is the best player in the NBA"

01' Phil Jackson - "Kobe is the best allaround player I ever coached"

what was that?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Kobe ages 21 - 31 (10 years) - 28.5PPG 6.3rebs 5.4ast 7 NBA Finals 5 Championships....

You can't deny facts Alphy, don't even try....

Rookie of the Year
Michael Jordan: Yes
Kobe Bryant: No

In his rookie year, Michael Jordan led his team in scoring, rebounding, assists and steals. Kobe Bryant wasn't good enough to beat out Eddie Jones for the starting spot his rookie year.

All-Rookie First Team
Michael Jordan: Yes
Kobe Bryant: No

Regular season & Playoffs combined
Games with 12 or more assists
Michael Air Jordan: 32
Kobe Bryant: 19

Regular season & Playoffs combined
Games with 10 or more assists:
Michael Air Jordan: 87
Kobe Bean Bryant: 74

Regular season & Playoffs combined
Games with 5 or more assists:
Michael Air Jordan: 663
Kobe Bean Bryant: 593

Regular season & Playoffs combined
Games with less than 3 assists:
Michael Air Jordan: 179
Kobe Bryant: 261

Regular season & Playoffs combined
Games with less than 2 assists:
Michael Air Jordan: 61
Kobe Bryant: 142

Regular season & Playoffs combined
Games with 0 assists:
Michael Air Jordan: 7
Kobe Bryant: 57

Regular season & Playoffs combined
Games with at least 15 rebounds:
Michael Air Jordan: 10
Kobe Bryant: 5

Regular season & Playoffs combined
Games with at least 12 rebounds:
Michael Air Jordan: 66
Kobe Bryant: 29

Percentage of points scored on free throws:
Michael Air Jordan: 22.9%
Kobe Bryant: 25.1%

Record in games with 30+ shot attempts
Michael Air Jordan: 72-57 (.558)
Kobe Bean Bryant: 46-61 (.368)
Michael Jordan shot his team to wins, Kobe Bryant shoots his team out of wins.

Seasons with at least 200 steals:
Michael Air Jordan: 6
Kobe Bryant: 0

Seasons with at least 150 steals:
Michael Air Jordan: 9
Kobe Bryant: 2

Seasons with at least 100 blocks:
Michael Air Jordan: 2
Kobe Bryant: 0

Seasons with at least 75 blocks:
Michael Air Jordan: 4
Kobe Bryant: 0

Defensive Player of the Year awards
Michael Jordan: 1
Kobe Bryant: 0

Michael averaged 35 points per game when he won defensive player of the year. The next closest scorer to win it had 27 ppg. Guards rarely receive Defensive Player of the Year. Think about the level of energy it takes to lead the league in scoring, and be the league's best defender.

Regular season & Playoffs combined
40 point or higher games
MJ: 211
Kobe: 115

Regular season & Playoffs combined
30 point or higher games
MJ: 671
Kobe: 415

Career Player Efficiency Rating
Michael Jordan: 27.91
Kobe Bryant: 23.50

Olympic Gold Medals
Michael Jordan: 2
Kobe Bryant: 1

Michael Jordan is one of three players to win an Olympic gold as both an amateur (1984) and professional (1992). The other players are Patrick Ewing and Chris Mullin, who did it with him.

All Star Game:
Jordan

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

NBA Finals averages for their careers:
Michael Jordan 33.6ppg 6.0reb 5.9ast 48.0%fg 36.8%3pt 
Kobe Bryant 25.3ppg 5.7reb 5.0ast 41.2%fg 31.3%3pt
Pau Gasol 17.3ppg 10.4reb 3.2ast 1.7blk 52.8%fg
Scottie Pippen 18.9ppg 8.3reb 5.9ast 40.9%fg 25.9%3pt
Shaq (as a Laker) 33.6ppg 14.1reb 3.0ast 2.4blk 60.2%fg
Kobe (with Shaq) 22.1ppg 5.2reb 4.6ast, 1.0blk 41.6%fg

Kobe has been out performed by teammates in 5 out of his 7 NBA Finals appearances, Michael Jordan was never out performed by a teammate. Michael Jordan never had a teammate average over 20.0ppg in any NBA Finals who shot a higher percentage than him, Kobe's had a teammate do this 4 times (Gasol doesn't get enough shot attempts or it would be 7 times).

Michael Jordan consistently raised his team's level of play, while Kobe Bryant hinders his team's level of play by consistently missing so many shots. Michael Jordan carried his team consistently, and on the flip side Kobe Bryant's team carries him consistently.

Record as team leader
Michael Air Jordan: 640-290 (.688)
Kobe Bean Bryant: 300-224 (.573)

Postseason as team leader
Michael Air Jordan: Missed postseason 0 times in 13 seasons
Kobe Bryant: Missed postseason 1 time in 6 seasons

NBA Finals Most Valuable Player awards
Michael Jordan: 6 in 6 tries
Kobe Bryant: 2 in 7 tries

As you can see, it would take Kobe 3 full careers to truly eclipse Michael Jordan. He's so far off he has absolutely no chance to pass Michael Air Jordan whatsoever...


In Bryant's exit interview with him he stated that O'Neal's fate with the Lakers would affect his decision to return, saying "I'm tired of being a sidekick.

Phil in 2011: Phil Jackson:

[dillondavis]

I'm a laker fan too but it was 10 years ago brah,
Get over it. We won championships I don't care who carried who they got shit done. Can we please get to the next decade already?

[LEFT4DEAD]

I don't need any stat, because I have actually watched them playing together. Shaq was 1st option on that team and it was not even close. He was biggest problem for opposite teams, he was the one who has always been double and triple teamed by opposite. Kobe was jacking up shots even back then, don't fool yourself. He was so many times alone on the perimeter because everybody wanted to stop Shaq, and that's way he was averaging 30 ppg. He had Shaq as his teammate and he still averaged no more than 5 apg. So much of Kobe being good passer.

And you should be shame of yourself because of trying to deny so big difference in roles between two. If you are a true Lakers fan you would not bring this to questioning ever.

[Nastradamus]

They needed each other. Shaq was pretty useless in the 4th quarter and that's where Kobe shined. They both opened things up for each other.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

So many people are trying to discredit Kobe's first 3 rings.
Kobe played a very vital role to those 3 championships, and was part of one of the greatest duos in the NBA ever.
Stop it already.

[Colby Brian]

And titles with each other

Shaq (fmvp)= 3
Kobe = 3
:roll:

fixed

[Colby Brian]

"In Bryant's exit interview with him he stated that O'Neal's fate with the Lakers would affect his decision to return, saying "I'm tired of being a sidekick."

He was sidekick, even he acknowledges it. Not sure why stans are getting riled up?

what year?

shaq without kobe - 1 ring
kobe without shaq - 2 rings

[Colby Brian]

Career averages:
Kobe - 25/5/5/ on .451% shooting - 25/5/5 on .448% shooting in the postseason

Wade - 25/5/6 on .485% shooting - 26/5/6 on .482% shooting in the postseason

Wade >>>> Kobe by a mile



His FG%??? :roll:



Get at me when Kobe has a Jordanesque Finals performance like Wade had vs. Dallas: 34.7 ppg 7.8 rpg 3.8 apg 1.0 bpg 2.7 spg 46.8 fg%

2EZZZZZ, kid.

kobe
32.4 ppg, 7.4 apg
2009 finals mvp

first player since j west to have average atleast 32 and 7 assists in finals

[Colby Brian]

Shaq has been scoring more on higher percentage in 4th so I don't know what are you talking about.

in close games phil took shaq out on offense in final minutes in some games

[LEFT4DEAD]

in close games phil took shaq out on offense in final minutes in some games
Where the **** is my post??? :wtf:

[Colby Brian]

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]NBA Finals averages for their careers:
Michael Jordan 33.6ppg 6.0reb 5.9ast 48.0%fg 36.8%3pt 
Kobe Bryant 25.3ppg 5.7reb 5.0ast 41.2%fg 31.3%3pt
Pau Gasol 17.3ppg 10.4reb 3.2ast 1.7blk 52.8%fg
Scottie Pippen 18.9ppg 8.3reb 5.9ast 40.9%fg 25.9%3pt
Shaq (as a Laker) 33.6ppg 14.1reb 3.0ast 2.4blk 60.2%fg
Kobe (with Shaq) 22.1ppg 5.2reb 4.6ast, 1.0blk 41.6%fg

Kobe has been out performed by teammates in 5 out of his 7 NBA Finals appearances, Michael Jordan was never out performed by a teammate. Michael Jordan never had a teammate average over 20.0ppg in any NBA Finals who shot a higher percentage than him, Kobe's had a teammate do this 4 times (Gasol doesn't get enough shot attempts or it would be 7 times).

Michael Jordan consistently raised his team's level of play, while Kobe Bryant hinders his team's level of play by consistently missing so many shots. Michael Jordan carried his team consistently, and on the flip side Kobe Bryant's team carries him consistently.

Record as team leader
Michael Air Jordan: 640-290 (.688)
Kobe Bean Bryant: 300-224 (.573)

Postseason as team leader
Michael Air Jordan: Missed postseason 0 times in 13 seasons
Kobe Bryant: Missed postseason 1 time in 6 seasons

NBA Finals Most Valuable Player awards
Michael Jordan: 6 in 6 tries
Kobe Bryant: 2 in 7 tries

As you can see, it would take Kobe 3 full careers to truly eclipse Michael Jordan. He's so far off he has absolutely no chance to pass Michael Air Jordan whatsoever...



Phil in 2011: Phil Jackson:

[DMAVS41]

kobes first 2 years he wasnt a starter, puts playoff stats as a starter

doesn't work that way.

career averages are career averages. if you removes two years from kobe's career...you have to removes two years from another players' career.

stay consistent.

[Heat007]

Here's a good breakdown showing how much of a distant sidekick Kobe was to Shaq:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCcPFX5g_HI

pay attention to he entire thing as it gets better and better as it moves along. There's PLENTY of great evidence there showing the big disparity between the two.

/thread

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

what year?

shaq without kobe - 1 ring
kobe without shaq - 2 rings

After the 2004 season.

Kobe without Fisher - 0 rings
Kobe with a BIG Man with just as much impact as him/if not more = 5 rings

[hkfosho]

Here's a good breakdown showing how much of a distant sidekick Kobe was to Shaq:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCcPFX5g_HI

pay attention to he entire thing as it gets better and better as it moves along. There's PLENTY of great evidence there showing the big disparity between the two.

/thread

I already showed him the video and he replied with

"He's a kobe hater what do you expect"

no clear rebuttal of any sort except name calling.

SIT DOWN

[Colby Brian]

After the 2004 season.

Kobe without Fisher - 0 rings
Kobe with a BIG Man with just as much impact as him/if not more = 5 rings

shaq without an elite sg (kobe, wade) = 0 rings

every player needs a good team to win quit being a dummy

2001 playoffs
shaq 30.4 ppg
kobe 29.4 ppg
1.0 ppg difference

2002 playoffs
shaq 28.5 ppg
kobe 26.6 ppg
1.9 ppg difference

2011 reg season
lebron 26.7 ppg
wade 25.5 ppg
difference 1.2 ppg
are lebron/wade 1a1b, or is wade his sidekick?

[Colby Brian]

I already showed him the video and he replied with

"He's a kobe hater what do you expect"

no clear rebuttal of any sort except name calling.

SIT DOWN

^^^ read my above post

[SavageMode]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_i3Vnd0n44&feature=related

[Colby Brian]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_i3Vnd0n44&feature=related

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/1%20Miami%20Heat/e7c7b33a.jpg

:roll:

[SavageMode]

Truth hurts... It's okay Colby.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

shaq without an elite sg (kobe, wade) = 0 rings

every player needs a good team to win quit being a dummy

2001 playoffs
shaq 30.4 ppg
kobe 29.4 ppg
1.0 ppg difference

2002 playoffs
shaq 28.5 ppg
kobe 26.6 ppg
1.9 ppg difference

2011 reg season
lebron 26.7 ppg
wade 25.5 ppg
difference 1.2 ppg
are lebron/wade 1a1b, or is wade his sidekick?

It isn't just about PPG. I go off everything. Win shares, Player efficiency Rating, FG%, REB, AST, BLKS, etc.

When adding everything together this is why I say the current Lakers have more of a 1A/1B type of scenario than the early 3-Peat Lakers did. Obviously Kobe is better than Gasol, but the fact PG has more win shares and equal amount of per just shows you GREAT he is in other areas - not just points.

According to PER and WS (and using everything else like PPG/FG%) LeBron and Wade are near even. During the early 2000s, Shaq had Kobe beat pretty comfortably in efficiency, rebounding, & blocks. This is why Kobe, despite being close in PPG (2001 and 2002), trailed Shaq (15 & 13.2) in winshares during the 2001 and 2002 seasons. Kobe had 11.3 and 12.7 win shares. This is why Shaq had 30 & 30 seasons of PER and Kobe had 24 and 23 seasons of PER.

[Colby Brian]

Truth hurts... It's okay Colby.

lol about the 2002 wcf, i could care less it was 9 years ago:lol

[SavageMode]

Shaq 3 Time Finals MVP :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Insiderbball]

You forgot to post their FG%.

[Grim]

Yup, but its called putting everything together. You posted the correct stats, just not all of them. :lol

Leaving FG% out is like shooting yourself in the foot.
what does that have to do with being CARRIED???



if Shaq carried Kobe then Kobe's stats would be:

10-17ppg
4
4


and barely any shot attempts...something along those lines...

[Colby Brian]

It isn't just about PPG. I go off everything. Win shares, Player efficiency Rating, FG%, REB, AST, BLKS, etc.

When adding everything together this is why I say the current Lakers have more of a 1A/1B type of scenario than the early 3-Peat Lakers do. Obviously Kobe is better than Gasol, but the fact PG has more win shares and equal amount of per just shows you GREAT he is in other areas - not just points.

According to PER and WS (and using everything else like PPG/FG%) LeBron and Wade are near even. During the early 2000s, Shaq had Kobe beat pretty comfortably in efficiency, rebounding, & blocks. This is why Kobe, despite being close in PPG (2001 and 2002), trailed Shaq (15 & 13.2) in winshares during the 2001 and 2002 seasons. Kobe had 11.3 and 12.7 win shares. This is why Shaq had 30 & 30 seasons of PER and Kobe had 24 and 23 seasons of PER.

thats pretty close, im not saying kobe was better than shaq in 2000-02, but shaq was 1a and kobe was 1b and you just proved it more
15 to 13.2, 12.7 to 11.3 thats close, even though shaq was in his prime and kobe wasnt even 24

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

what does that have to do with being CARRIED???

Alot to do with it. Missed shots hurt your team not only on the offensive end, but long shots (Kobe was a big time jumpshooter then too), hurts your transition defense also.

Shaq pretty much maximized all of his attempts, and was almost a shoe in to score when he had single coverage in the paint.

[Insiderbball]

thats pretty close, im not saying kobe was better than shaq in 2000-02, but shaq was 1a and kobe was 1b and you just proved it more
15 to 13.2, 12.7 to 11.3 thats close, even though shaq was in his prime and kobe wasnt even 24


here are the ratios of their importance

2000:
shaq 5 :1 Kobe

2001:
Shaq 5: 3 Kobe

2002
Shaq 4: 2 Kobe

[Colby Brian]

Shaq 3 Time Finals MVP :bowdown: :bowdown:

3 straight finals mvps, shaq and MJ (twice) are the only players to win 3 straight fmvps, kobe has a chance to do that soon

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

thats pretty close, im not saying kobe was better than shaq in 2000-02, but shaq was 1a and kobe was 1b and you just proved it more
15 to 13.2, 12.7 to 11.3 thats close, even though shaq was in his prime and kobe wasnt even 24

It was pretty close, but I also added PER (like I do with currently with Pau Gasol and Kobe).

I use everything dude; you just posted PPG.

[Colby Brian]

here are the ratios of their importance

2000:
shaq 5 :1 Kobe

2001:
Shaq 5: 3 Kobe

2002
Shaq 4: 2 Kobe

:facepalm

how about game 7 of 2000 wcf, 21 yr old kobe had more points, rebounds, and assists than a prime shaq
but but but but he got "carried"

[Insiderbball]

3 straight finals mvps, shaq and MJ (twice) are the only players to win 3 straight fmvps, kobe has a chance to do that soon

Shaq and MJ did it while averaging insane monster numbers, Kobe did it with Iverson-esque numbers.

[Insiderbball]

:facepalm

how about game 7 of 2000 wcf, 21 yr old kobe had more points, rebounds, and assists than a prime shaq
but but but but he got "carried"

1 game out of 17.

[Colby Brian]

It was pretty close, but I also added PER (like I do with currently with Pau Gasol and Kobe).

I use everything dude; you just posted PPG.

no i posted ppg, rpg, apg

if you add everything up, the shaq and kobe era were 1a 1b

in 2000, kobe was shaqs sidekick, but in 2001 and 02 it was 1a 1b

[Colby Brian]

Shaq and MJ did it while averaging insane monster numbers, Kobe did it with Iverson-esque numbers.

kobes playoffs stats
08 - 30/6/6
09 - 30/5/6 - fmvp
10 - 29/6/6 - fmvp

gtfo

[Insiderbball]

no i posted ppg, rpg, apg

if you add everything up, the shaq and kobe era were 1a 1b


Anyways, your thinking and using your brain, which is good. However some of your perspectives and belief are not accurate, not a problem though, we all came from this phase.

Keep thinking, researching, and eventually you will find the truth.

[Insiderbball]

kobes playoffs stats
08 - 30/6/6
09 - 30/5/6 - fmvp
10 - 29/6/6 - fmvp

gtfo

can you post the FG%?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

no i posted ppg, rpg, apg

if you add everything up, the shaq and kobe era were 1a 1b

Nah they weren't 1A/1B because Shaq trumped Kobe in effiency quite handedly. This is why despite Kobe putting all-around better numbers than Pau, he trails him in WS and they're equal in PER. This is why when Kobe averaged the same amount points as Shaq during the 2001 & 2002 seasons still trailed Shaq in PER and WS. If you had everything together, Shaq definitely carried Kobe. 28.7ppg on 56%FG >>>> Kobe's 29ppg on 47% shooting, quite easily.

I was referring to this post, the one I originally quoted you on:
shaq without an elite sg (kobe, wade) = 0 rings

every player needs a good team to win quit being a dummy

2001 playoffs
shaq 30.4 ppg
kobe 29.4 ppg
1.0 ppg difference

2002 playoffs
shaq 28.5 ppg
kobe 26.6 ppg
1.9 ppg difference

2011 reg season
lebron 26.7 ppg
wade 25.5 ppg
difference 1.2 ppg
are lebron/wade 1a1b, or is wade his sidekick?

Like I said, just points...

[Colby Brian]

can you post the FG%?

48%, 46%, 46%

[Colby Brian]

Nah they weren't 1A/1B because Shaq trumped Kobe in effiency quite handedly. This is why despite Kobe putting all-around better numbers than Pau, he trails him in WS and they're equal in PER. This is why when Kobe averaged the same amount points as Shaq during the 2001 & 2002 seasons still trailed Shaq in PER and WS. If you had everything together, Shaq definitely carried Kobe. 28.7ppg on 56%FG >>>> Kobe's 29ppg on 47% shooting, quite easily.

I was referring to this post, the one I originally quoted you on:

Like I said, just points...

2001- 29.4, 7.3, 6.1
2002- 26.6, 5.8, 4.6

these are not sidekick numbers brah, yeah shaq was more efficent and had a little better number, it means that shaq was a better no doubt but by a little
1a shaq
1b kobe

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

48%, 46%, 46%

Kobe never averaged 48%. The closest he was to 47% was 46.9; He did average 47% during the 2001-2002 seasons, but his points dipped to 25 a game.

[Colby Brian]

Kobe never averaged 48%. The closest he was to 47% was 46.9; He did average 47% during the 2001-2002 seasons, but his points dipped to 25 a game.

.479% in 2007-08 playoffs
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

2001- 29.4, 7.3, 6.1
2002- 26.6, 5.8, 4.6

these are not sidekick numbers brah, yeah shaq was more efficent and had a little better number, it means that shaq was a better no doubt but by a little
1a shaq
1b kobe

They aren't sidekick numbers, but to Shaq, they were... Look at Shaq's regular season and playoff numbers.

Kobe admits to being Shaq's sidekick: Bryant told Jackson that O'Neal's presence on the team would affect his decision to stay with the Lakers, adding, "I'm tired of being a sidekick," Jackson wrote.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

.479% in 2007-08 playoffs
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html

Oh, I thought we were talking about the Shaq/Kobe days?

Yeah his 2007-2008 season and postseason was impressive; shame he played below average vs. Boston.

[Insiderbball]

48%, 46%, 46%

.479
.457
.458


now what's MJ's (first 3 peat) and Shaq's

[Colby Brian]

They aren't sidekick numbers, but to Shaq, they were... Look at Shaq's regular season and playoff numbers.

Kobe admits to being Shaq's sidekick: Bryant told Jackson that O'Neal's presence on the team would affect his decision to stay with the Lakers, adding, "I'm tired of being a sidekick," Jackson wrote.

im trying to find a video i watched before when kobe said we were 1a1b

[Colby Brian]

.479
.457
.458


now what's MJ's (first 3 peat) and Shaq's

shaqs a center, if you had a brain you would know
kobe takes way more 3s and perimeter jumpers than jordan and shaq

[Grim]

Alot to do with it. Missed shots hurt your team not only on the offensive end, but long shots (Kobe was a big time jumpshooter then too), hurts your transition defense also.

Shaq pretty much maximized all of his attempts, and was almost a shoe in to score when he had single coverage in the paint.
lol @ ignoring the rest of my post in order to suit ur agenda

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

im trying to find a video i watched before when kobe said we were 1a1b

Good luck. This was right after the 2004 season, just before Shaq was traded.

[Insiderbball]

shaqs a center, if you had a brain you would know
kobe takes way more 3s and perimeter jumpers than jordan and shaq


jordan still has much much higher TS% which accounts for 3 pointers, but let's not compare to jordan that's unfair

Kobe is second best SG in history

[Colby Brian]

Oh, I thought we were talking about the Shaq/Kobe days?

Yeah his 2007-2008 season and postseason was impressive; shame he played below average vs. Boston.

he had his moments tho
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rzbnp-Dt7mI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWI7umzJ_7w

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

shaqs a center, if you had a brain you would know
kobe takes way more 3s and perimeter jumpers than jordan and shaq

So what if he does? So because Shaq and Jordan take smarter shots we gotta excuse what they did because Kobe settled for more 3's? Can't fault them for being smart about their shot selection. Bryant has ALWAYS been a sup par-to decent 3PT shooter.

[Colby Brian]

jordan still has much much higher TS% which accounts for 3 pointers, but let's not compare to jordan that's unfair

Kobe is second best SG in history

career TS%
kobe .556
jordan .569
shaq .586

[Insiderbball]

career TS%
kobe .556
jordan .569
shaq .586


dude you gotta take away Jordan's 1995 year, where he just came back, and the 2002 and 2003 season, where he's 40 years old.

[Colby Brian]

dude you gotta take away Jordan's 1995 year, where he just came back, and the 2002 and 2003 season, where he's 40 years old.

take away kobes first 2 years when he wasnt a starter

[Insiderbball]

take away kobes first 2 years when he wasnt a starter

ok take it off

[Insiderbball]

by the way do you know why I can't create a new posts? i can only reply

[Colby Brian]

ok take it off

thats too hard to do
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html

try to figure it out

[Colby Brian]

by the way do you know why I can't create a new posts? i can only reply

there should be a "new thread" thing on the top corner of the main thread

[Insiderbball]

there should be a "new thread" thing on the top corner of the main thread

yea i click it but it says i don't have permission to create new threads

[Colby Brian]

yea i click it but it says i don't have permission to create new threads

you might have to get 100 posts before you can

[Insiderbball]

you might have to get 100 posts before you can

o ok, i will just get 100 posts by educating you

[Colby Brian]

o ok, i will just get 100 posts by educating you

:lol in your own mind

[OriginalNameGuy]

Can't be that great of a point if he has to moderate the youtube comments :confusedshrug:

he does it so people won't troll his videos with stupid comments and why are you trying to argue this when Kobe himself said he was a sidekick

[Yao Ming's Foot]

he does it so people won't troll his videos with stupid comments

You can pick and choose who you want to respond to. Some posters are so immature thats not even worth the time to respond, but to not even give somebody else the chance to debate you on a topic that you feel so passionately about is simply cowardice.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

he does it so people won't troll his videos with stupid comments and why are you trying to argue this when Kobe himself said he was a sidekick

That's great. Wade is a sidekick. Kareem is a sidekick. Wilt Chamberlain was a sidekick.