SI Poll of NBA Players: Who do you want shooting with Game on the line?

[The Decision]

WHO DO YOU WANT SHOOTING WITH THE GAME ON THE LINE?

Kobe Bryant, Lakers G 74%

Kevin Durant, Thunder F 8%

Dwyane Wade, Heat G 3%

Ray Allen, Celtics G 2%

Dirk Nowitzki, Mavericks F 2%

Based on 166 NBA players who responded to SI's survey

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1184597/index.htm

[PowerGlove]

:roll:

[1rkrage]

POLL TO THE PEOPLE

Starting this issue, SI will take every player poll to Facebook for a second perspective, from the fans (right). Last week 990 online voters weighed in, and while the masses seconded Bryant as the go-to game-winner, Derrick Rose—who received no votes when SI polled players in the first half of the season—finished a relatively close second. Look for future polls at facebook.com/sportsillustrated

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1184597/index.htm#ixzz1K1ssPhFs



:pimp:

[juju151111]

How is ray Allen so low?

[branslowski]

Doesn't take a Genius to know Kobe is the Best closer/Clutch player in the game.....Move on...:sleeping

[PowerGlove]

I'm still laughing at no melo/pierce

[Rysio]

lebron.

[Scoooter]

Dirk, Pierce or Melo. Pick your poison.

[KDthunderup]

No Melo?

[branslowski]

lebron.

http://www.chicitysports.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/LEB61.jpg

[Jimmy2k8]

74% for Kobe? That's surprising. No sarcasim, really am surprised.

[50inchvertical]

Doesn't take a Genius to know Kobe is the Best closer/Clutch player in the game.....Move on...:sleeping
0-6 in game 1 in the last 6 minutes

[Disaprine]

in before butthurt haters.

[JGXEN]

Can't be helped, C's arent the most likable team in the L. Its blasphemy that PP isnt even in the top few choices.

[DuMa]

I want Nash

[YouCallILose]

Dirk is the answer to this question. Durant is also up there, he's been really clutch this year

[B]

Love all the tools in this thread thinking they know more than the 166 players that actually face these guys night in and night out

[DKLaker]

I want Nash

Nash???? How many Rings he got? How many trips to the Finals?
0 and 0 right? Why would I want him taking a "GET ME THE WIN" shot?
Nash, very nice player......but couldn't hold Kobe's jock when it comes to clutch...that 74% is real. Theres a reason Kobe has 5 rings and 7 Finals total.

[kabalcage]

I don't understand why the NBA players aren't picking LeBron James.

If I'm an NBA player and the game is on the line, I do NOT want Kobe Bryant/Ray Allen/Dirk shooting the ball. I would most desire the narcissist LeBron James taking that final shot because I know he would miss it.

[BarberSchool]

http://www.chicitysports.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/LEB61.jpg:roll:


But seriously of all active playoff players this year:

1. Kobe
2. Melo
3. Paul Pierce
4. Dirk Nowitzki
5. Derrick Rose
6. Ray Allen
7. Kevin Durant
8. Ashton KLUTCHer
9. Chris Paul
10. Jason Terry

[The_Yearning]

Durant is like 0/50 on game winners lmao.

[TonyD]

No Melo?

Word, what's the deal?

[nbastatus]

Durant is like 0/50 on game winners lmao.
That's a bit too much. He made a game winner before I believe.:lol :lol

[SavageMode]

No Melo..

[FKAri]

Let's be honest, out of all the "top" players, Kobe has been the least "clutch" player this season: the complete fail vs the Heat; the butterfingers (twice!); g2 vs the Hornets; can you think of more? I can think of 3 more.

Even tho I think clutch is a stupid label that is too easily given out and rarely holds any real merit.

[Colby Brian]

Lol lebrons not on there :roll:

[Bosnian Sajo]

1. Allen (by far)
2. Kobe
3. Melo

.
.
.

266. LeBron

[donald_trump]

hilarious that even players by into what the media writes and what is said on the tv.

i dont know how many times ive heard 'kobe the best closer in the nba' said when a laker game is on. even more hilarious is that durant is second on that list.

just goes to show players are influenced like everyone else by the media. the media has always given the perception of kobe being a clutch god, and the kevin durant hype last year got him second place.

no one in their right mind would choose a player like durant over melo, ray allen, dirk, wade, etc. simple media manipulation.

[H.A.M.]

WHO DO YOU WANT SHOOTING WITH THE GAME ON THE LINE?

Kobe Bryant, Lakers G 74%

Kevin Durant, Thunder F 8%

Dwyane Wade, Heat G 3%

Ray Allen, Celtics G 2%

Dirk Nowitzki, Mavericks F 2%

Based on 166 NBA players who responded to SI's survey

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1184597/index.htm

no melo? He would be first on my list

[Crystallas]

J-Rich is getting up there with his last minute 3s. Hell, he can brick for 47 minutes a game, then sink everything in the last minute, like he's been hot all night long.

[hitmanyr2k]

Ray Allen should be topping that list.

[DMAVS41]

no melo? He would be first on my list

perfect example of perception vs reality. melo is easily the best game winning shot maker of this era.

He shoots right at 50% for his career. The next best guy on volume is Dirk at around 40%. Kobe has the most makes, but comes in at 33%......

LOL

Its Melo......then Dirk.....then Allen...then probably Kobe.

[DMAVS41]

hilarious that even players by into what the media writes and what is said on the tv.

i dont know how many times ive heard 'kobe the best closer in the nba' said when a laker game is on. even more hilarious is that durant is second on that list.

just goes to show players are influenced like everyone else by the media. the media has always given the perception of kobe being a clutch god, and the kevin durant hype last year got him second place.

no one in their right mind would choose a player like durant over melo, ray allen, dirk, wade, etc. simple media manipulation.

ding ding ding. this is a crash course on perception vs. reality.

[chazzy]

Its Melo......then Rashard Lewis..then Dirk.....then Allen...then probably Kobe.
Fixed that for ya

[ODEN>DURANT]

Prime Brandon Roy.

[Clutch]

http://www.chicitysports.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/LEB61.jpg
:roll: :roll: :roll:

I find it amazing that there is no Melo,Pierce or even Ginobili at the list. :facepalm

[The Decision]

perfect example of perception vs reality. melo is easily the best game winning shot maker of this era.

He shoots right at 50% for his career. The next best guy on volume is Dirk at around 40%. Kobe has the most makes, but comes in at 33%......

LOL

Its Melo......then Dirk.....then Allen...then probably Kobe.

NBA players who actually play the game and defend and make plays in the clutch > A random old man on ISH.

[Lebron23]

NBA players who actually play the game and defend and make plays in the clutch > A random old man on ISH.

That's why a 12 yrs.old retard who played in the YMCA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than you.

[DMAVS41]

Fixed that for ya

Whatever floats your boat.

Definitely not Kobe...thats for sure....especially not in the playoffs.

[DMAVS41]

NBA players who actually play the game and defend and make plays in the clutch > A random old man on ISH.

So you don't want the player that is on pace to have more makes on 17% higher from the field?

Please explain.

[Colby Brian]

http://i46.tinypic.com/kf2hwi.jpg
U MAD?

[DixieNourmous]

That's why a 12 yrs.old retard who played in the YMCA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than you.


ironic :rolleyes:


12 year old tard posting about 12 year old tards :lol

[talkingconch]

Melo should be 2nd or close up

[LA_Showtime]

That's funny. If I was an NBA player I'd want a guy like Chris Quinn taking the last shot so my team would win...

[Lebron23]

ironic :rolleyes:


12 year old tard posting about 12 year old tards :lol


Is the decision one of your accounts? You retards always love criticizing LeBron. His far richer, better basketball player than the rest of these Jabronis.

[chazzy]

That's funny. If I was an NBA player I'd want a guy like Chris Quinn taking the last shot so my team would win...
I'm surprised nobody's interpreted it that way and ran with it.. "See, they all want Kobe taking it because he's so bad at it!" :oldlol:

[LA_Showtime]

I'm surprised nobody's interpreted it that way and ran with it.. "See, they all want Kobe taking it because he's so bad at it!" :oldlol:

That's immediately what I thought of but I didn't wanna post it since Kobe's a Laker. :oldlol: Some of these guys need to take trolling 101.

[DMAVS41]

So lets get this straight.

Kobe fans still insist he's the best on game winners even though no evidence supports this?

The stat is flawed because it shows some outliers have made some big shots....like Rashard Lewis? LOL

We all know who the best big shot makers are in the league. Dirk/Melo/Kobe/Allen....Lebron was up until this year.

We all know Rashard Lewis doesn't belong in that tier. But the stans want to throw out entire careers of evidence because some average players have made some big shots?

Hilarious.

All stats are biased against Kobe.....all stats are flawed because sometimes there are statistical anomalies....even though they are always easily explained with context.

Hilarious.

For the record. Melo owns Kobe on game winners. Dirk and Allen are better as well. After that? I'd take Kobe over everyone else I guess

But its a sad day when a certain group of people want all evidence and hard data ignored for perception based opinion.

The facts: Kobe makes game winners at a rate of around 33% for his career. Kobe makes game winners in the playoffs at a rate of around 27% for his career. He's not the best....

[YAWN]

Still hilarious the things the kids on here say year after year when this survey from NBA players comes out with Kobe on top. I bet all 74% of those 166 players who voted have experienced the feeling of a late game kobe dagger first hand.

[BigTicket]

Meh, I'd rather have Ray Allen or Carmelo Anthony.

They don't get as much hype, but the stats clearly show that they do a better job on gamewinning shots than Kobe does.

[UwishUhadWall]

Gilbert Arenas.

[monkeypox]

So lets get this straight.

Kobe fans still insist he's the best on game winners even though no evidence supports this?

The stat is flawed because it shows some outliers have made some big shots....like Rashard Lewis? LOL

We all know who the best big shot makers are in the league. Dirk/Melo/Kobe/Allen....Lebron was up until this year.

We all know Rashard Lewis doesn't belong in that tier. But the stans want to throw out entire careers of evidence because some average players have made some big shots?

Hilarious.

All stats are biased against Kobe.....all stats are flawed because sometimes there are statistical anomalies....even though they are always easily explained with context.

Hilarious.

For the record. Melo owns Kobe on game winners. Dirk and Allen are better as well. After that? I'd take Kobe over everyone else I guess

But its a sad day when a certain group of people want all evidence and hard data ignored for perception based opinion.

The facts: Kobe makes game winners at a rate of around 33% for his career. Kobe makes game winners in the playoffs at a rate of around 27% for his career. He's not the best....

This really is a case of perception vs. reality, but not the way you think. Your perception is that he's not clutch yet the reality is that his peers think the opposite. Ask yourself honestly why so many NBA players answered that way and who would be more likely to know what they're talking about? You're working on a hypothetical that IF you were a basketball player and the game was on the line, who you would pick. These players don't have to pretend to be basketball players like you do, and they've been in the situation so they don't have to make it up in their mind like you do. So I'd wager that maybe they've got a more accurate view of whats going on here even if they don't have some stats in front of them.

The reason why he's so feared in the clutch is 1. he isn't afraid to take the shot, in fact he relishes the moment and seems empowered by it 2. his offensive creativity in creating a shot for himself in almost any situation, and 3. his ability to actually make those crazy shots. Statistics can only show you so much and in the end will only give you a slice of what's going on. Unless you really think Shawn Marion is one of the most clutch players in the league.

Consider that Kobe has most of his career been asked to take the shot with the game on the line, and for most of that time was considered the most deadly and ended up being the most guarded for those shots. So yeah, maybe his percentages aren't so great.

Did Carmelo make more of his late game shots when you look at the numbers? Yeah maybe. But was he more guarded during that time then Kobe, or even say Billups? Mr. big shot? You believe players are so blinded by hype that they just happened to leave off one of the most statistically clutch players in the league off the list? Or just maybe the stat is flawed because it leaves out that Mello could defer to Billups and have less pressure, or that Mello would rather not go for that contested shot and lose the game rather than go for that crazy hail mary that Kobe would always shoot. You'll never know because it's not included in the stat.

[DMAVS41]

This really is a case of perception vs. reality, but not the way you think. Your perception is that he's not clutch yet the reality is that his peers think the opposite. Ask yourself honestly why so many NBA players answered that way and who would be more likely to know what they're talking about? You're working on a hypothetical that IF you were a basketball player and the game was on the line, who you would pick. These players don't have to pretend to be basketball players like you do, and they've been in the situation so they don't have to make it up in their mind like you do. So I'd wager that maybe they've got a more accurate view of whats going on here even if they don't have some stats in front of them.

The reason why he's so feared in the clutch is 1. he isn't afraid to take the shot, in fact he relishes the moment and seems empowered by it 2. his offensive creativity in creating a shot for himself in almost any situation, and 3. his ability to actually make those crazy shots. Statistics can only show you so much and in the end will only give you a slice of what's going on. Unless you really think Shawn Marion is one of the most clutch players in the league.

Consider that Kobe has most of his career been asked to take the shot with the game on the line, and for most of that time was considered the most deadly and ended up being the most guarded for those shots. So yeah, maybe his percentages aren't so great.

Did Carmelo make more of his late game shots when you look at the numbers? Yeah maybe. But was he more guarded during that time then Kobe, or even say Billups? Mr. big shot? You believe players are so blinded by hype that they just happened to leave off one of the most statistically clutch players in the league off the list? Or just maybe the stat is flawed because it leaves out that Mello could defer to Billups and have less pressure, or that Mello would rather not go for that contested shot and lose the game rather than go for that crazy hail mary that Kobe would always shoot. You'll never know because it's not included in the stat.

LOL.....what?

Nobody is saying Kobe isn't clutch. He's super clutch. He just isn't the best game winning shot maker of this era. Not only does he make less percentage wise than the best, but his team struggles in these situations as well. Kobe's teams have the 12th best offensive efficiency and his teams aren't in the top 5 in wins in close games.

Its hilarious that you and others think you can be the best at something without actually producing as the best.

For example.

Dirk makes close to 10% better.
The Mavs win more games decided by 3 points or less.
The Mavs win more games decided by 5 points or less.
The Mavs offensive efficiency in game winning situations is better.

So Kobe is not the best individually nor is his team success the best. So all that BS you spew doesn't produce results or wins at the best rate.

Again. Nobody is saying Kobe isn't clutch. He very much is. He's just not the best game winning shot maker of this era. That would be Melo. Then Dirk and Allen....then Kobe.

If you want to be considered the best at something....you actually have to produce. All this media speak about not being afraid is worthless. Dirk isn't afraid. Melo isn't afraid. Allen isn't afraid.

The stat you want us to disregard is simply a count of makes and misses on potential game winning opportunities for entire careers. Its no different than free throw percentage. Not to mention that we also know the team success of Kobe and offensive efficiency in these situations. So not in any area does anything back him up as the best.

Generally when you try to claim someone the best at something without providing any evidence....its a flawed assertion. Just like this one.

[B]

LOL.....what?

Nobody is saying Kobe isn't clutch. He's super clutch. He just isn't the best game winning shot maker of this era. That's not what this thread is about. Quit trying to turn the thread into an argument for something else to fit your pathetic agenda ginobli.

166 NBA players want Kobe to take the last shot, Not Dirk, get over it.

[Allstar24]

WHO DO YOU WANT SHOOTING WITH THE GAME ON THE LINE?

Kobe Bryant, Lakers G 74%

Kevin Durant, Thunder F 8%

Dwyane Wade, Heat G 3%

Ray Allen, Celtics G 2%

Dirk Nowitzki, Mavericks F 2%

Based on 166 NBA players who responded to SI's survey

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1184597/index.htm
The players have spoken. I'm not reading beyond this post...because the rest of the thread consists of worthless opinions from nobodies. SI didn't interview you people, what you think don't matter. The truth is that Kobe is viewed as the most clutch player with the game on the line and it is NOT EVEN CLOSE. He won in a landslide. Deal with it.

[DMAVS41]

[QUOTE=B

[DMAVS41]

The players have spoken. I'm not reading beyond this post...because the rest of the thread consists of worthless opinions from nobodies. SI didn't interview you people, what you think don't matter. The truth is that Kobe is viewed as the most clutch player with the game on the line and it is NOT EVEN CLOSE. He won in a landslide. Deal with it.

And its a pathetic list considering the player that has been by far the best on these shots the last 8 years didn't even receive one vote.

What a sad sad day it is that opinions and perceptions trump evidence.

Damn.

[MaxFly]

I want Ray Allen coming off a screen, receiving a pass and getting a semi open shot in the clutch. By no means do I want the ball in Ray Allen's hands in clutch situations where he has to create his own offense or offensive opportunities for others.

[B]

That is exactly what this thread is about. Who is the best at making the last shot. I wouldn't pick Dirk either. I'd pick Melo and its not even remotely close at this point.

LOL....get over it brah. How much data has to come out before people acknowledge a fact?

Player on the courts opinion greater than your twisted data

Seriously stop arguing about it, you're making yourself look like an idiot when you try and tell people your facts and data are more well informed than guys who are on the floor facing Bryant night in and night out.

[DMAVS41]

[QUOTE=B

[brantonli]

Did the poll contain a 'Yourself' option?

[PBJ_Time]

[QUOTE=B

[B]

How is counting makes and misses, team success in close games, and offensive efficiency twisted data.

Look like a fool. Those players look like fools. They didn't even vote for the best guy in these situations. Wade over Melo? Durant over Melo? Are you ****ing kidding me? Thats laughable. Wade is actually horrid at game winners. Durant hasn't done anything in this regard.

I swear you people can't think for yourselves....its truly pathetic.Players are not afraid of Melo, get over it. They are afraid of Kobe having the ball in the finals moments of a game.

You can call it laughable or pathetic or whatever you want to but you're missing the point. All your numbers and all your claiming to be a great thinker just prove you're neither when you spend countless hours compiling numbers and data to back up a point that is not based in numbers.

Being a winner, being respected by your peers or being feared by your peers is not based in numbers, it's based in on the court play. 166 players say you're full of shit.

[monkeypox]

LOL.....what?

Nobody is saying Kobe isn't clutch. He's super clutch. He just isn't the best game winning shot maker of this era. Not only does he make less percentage wise than the best, but his team struggles in these situations as well. Kobe's teams have the 12th best offensive efficiency and his teams aren't in the top 5 in wins in close games.

Its hilarious that you and others think you can be the best at something without actually producing as the best.

For example.

Dirk makes close to 10% better.
The Mavs win more games decided by 3 points or less.
The Mavs win more games decided by 5 points or less.
The Mavs offensive efficiency in game winning situations is better.

So Kobe is not the best individually nor is his team success the best. So all that BS you spew doesn't produce results or wins at the best rate.

Again. Nobody is saying Kobe isn't clutch. He very much is. He's just not the best game winning shot maker of this era. That would be Melo. Then Dirk and Allen....then Kobe.

If you want to be considered the best at something....you actually have to produce. All this media speak about not being afraid is worthless. Dirk isn't afraid. Melo isn't afraid. Allen isn't afraid.

The stat you want us to disregard is simply a count of makes and misses on potential game winning opportunities for entire careers. Its no different than free throw percentage. Not to mention that we also know the team success of Kobe and offensive efficiency in these situations. So not in any area does anything back him up as the best.

Generally when you try to claim someone the best at something without providing any evidence....its a flawed assertion. Just like this one.

You think the players and the GM's aren't privy to these stats? You also think the stats can't be adjusted slightly to push one player above another? But for you it's the end all be all truth of it because it happens to coincide with what you already think. That's one of the traps of statistics. You're also missing the invisible hand of opinion that has tainted the statistics. Can you figure it out? I'll give you the benefit of doubt and not just tell you.

Ask yourself why they chose Kobe over your man Dirk by such a large margin. Maybe it's as simple as the fact that Dirk requires a very specific setup to score in the clutch, whereas Kobe can be successful in a wider range of scenarios and match-ups making him a larger threat. It's not like the players and GM's haven't had to gameplan against Dirk so aren't aware of him. Yet they chose Kobe. So maybe your stats aren't as meaningful as you think they are. You'd take Mello and Allen above Kobe because the stats say so, yet Mello wasn't even on the list for god stakes and everyone knows Allen needs screens to make his shots.

What your stats show is that Dirk when playing on the Mavs is very efficient during a specific segment of time that may or may not be considered clutch given context. Why would this information compel a player on the Blazers to pick him to take the last shot on his team, which is completely different? The stat doesn't speak to his ability or say his adaptability, only his production in a given specific circumstances. Just like the player who scores the most in a year isn't always the best scorer because maybe the scoring leader is on a bad team and needs to take a higher % of the shots. Get me? Someone like you may get red in the face pointing out that say Durant is scoring the most points therefor he must be the best scorer, but every player in the league will know that LeBron is the best scorer and he scores less because he plays with Wade. Maybe Dirk isn't the best in the clutch even if your stats say he is.

You mention free throw shooting. Is it harder to make a freethrow in the first minute of the game, or in the last seconds with the game on the line. Any idiot would tell you the latter is more difficult. You see, circumstances matter and that's what stats tend to ignore. A stat head may say a freethrow is a freethrow, but anyone who's competed in anything knows that's not the case. You say Dirk makes a higher percentage of makes for the Mavs in the last minutes with a lead or deficit of yadda yadda yadda, so you'd put the ball in his hands. Guess what, the people that actually do the thing that you're only hypothesizing about don't agree with you. So what can you conclude?

I'll give you a wider ranging stat to consider, 74% of NBA players asked STILL selected Kobe Bryant to take the last shot in a year where he was been pretty off in the clutch. That there considers people who have considered and experienced WAAAY more than you and your sliver of statistical data.

[EnoughSaid]

Kobe is so overrated in the clutch. Melo is a better player when it comes down to being able to make shots with a few minutes left.

[Papaya Petee]

Lol Ray Allens clutchness makes Kobe look silly. Lmao @ 5 rings argument used to describe who's more clutch.

[Jimmy2k8]

I'm surprised nobody's interpreted it that way and ran with it.. "See, they all want Kobe taking it because he's so bad at it!" :oldlol:


I was just thinking about that, but realized how much of a retarded idea that is.

[scm5]

nash or ray allen... they never miss FT's.

[BEAST Griffin]

Well, Kobe hogs the ball in the clutch. He misses a lot (more than he makes) but when he makes a few, people are in awe. And he is more than capable of making very tough shots. Add to that that he plays for the Lakers in what's arguably the biggest NBA market in the world, and there you go. Then of course you only see highlights on TV of makes and much less of misses. Players play against the Lakers 2-4 times a season. The rest of the season also see on TV and in highlights. Even other NBA players can get a distorted view of Kobe Bryant in the clutch.

[AlphaWolf24]

GM's , Coaches and the best basketball players in the world who actually play against Kobe all say he's the best......

but H8RZ who use flawed stats and can't even play basketball are talking about Perception vs Reality??


Interwebz......where amazing happens.

[BEAST Griffin]

GM's , Coaches and the best basketball players in the world who actually play against Kobe all say he's the best......

but H8RZ who use flawed stats and can't even play basketball are talking about Perception vs Reality??


Interwebz......where amazing happens.

Many people perceive Kobe Bryant to be the best clutch player. That doesn't make it reality.

next...2ez

[DKLaker]

http://i46.tinypic.com/kf2hwi.jpg
U MAD?


:applause: :applause: :rockon: :applause: :applause:

[AlphaWolf24]

Many people perceive Kobe Bryant to be the best clutch player. That doesn't make it reality.

next...2ez


your right.....Many people perceive Jordan as the GOAT:confusedshrug: ..when in Reality, Kevin Love's __________(insert some random flawed stat here) proves he actually is the GOAT.



remember...the "NBA" says By "Acclamation"(Majority voice) is the only reason someone can be regarded as the best ever.



Domino! MTHAFKUKA!

[jlip]

Actually players are not anymore of an authority on this subject than any typical fan. This isn't the 60's where you face a team 10-13 times a season. You face a team only 2-4 times a season. You're probably in a situation whereas a certain player takes a game winning shot against your team only once or twice a season. He makes that shot no more than once. The rest of his game winning shot attempts you are nothing more than a spectator watching on Sportscenter like every other fan in the country.

[KenneBell]

Actually players are not anymore of an authority on this subject than any typical fan. This isn't the 60's where you face a team 10-13 times a season. You face a team only 2-4 times a season. You're probably in a situation whereas a certain player takes a game winning shot against your team only once or twice a season. He makes that shot no more than once. The rest of his game winning shot attempts you are nothing more than a spectator watching on Sportscenter like every other fan in the country.
But you have to account for Kobe being in the league for 15 years and playing others multiple times in different situations as they've changed teams.

The average 7-8 year vet has played against him a minimum of what, 16-18 games?

[AlphaWolf24]

Actually players are not anymore of an authority on this subject than any typical fan. This isn't the 60's where you face a team 10-13 times a season. You face a team only 2-4 times a season. You're probably in a situation whereas a certain player takes a game winning shot against your team only once or twice a season. He makes that shot no more than once. The rest of his game winning shot attempts you are nothing more than a spectator watching on Sportscenter like every other fan in the country.


Actually...Players who who actually Play professional basketball in a 82 game season going up against the best players in the world...and have at least worked on their own game to get at a high level > average fan who just watches basketball and plays casually if at all...


I would rather take advice on how to drive a Highperformance racecar from a professional racecar driver with experience then someone who watched Fast and the Furious and drives their Mothers MiniVan.

[AlphaWolf24]

But you have to account for Kobe being in the league for 15 years and playing others multiple times in different situations as they've changed teams.

The average 7-8 year vet has played against him a minimum of what, 16-18 games?


oh oh...Now your using Logic and reasoning going off a sample of over a Decade of winning Basketball....

How dare you.....

[jlip]

Actually...Players who who actually Play professional basketball in a 82 game season going up against the best players in the world...and have at least worked on their own game to get at a high level > average fan who just watches basketball and plays casually if at all...


I would rather take advice on how to drive a Highperformance racecar from a professional racecar driver with experience then someone who watched Fast and the Furious and drives their Mothers MiniVan.

Please tell me how having professional basketball skills makes you an authority on who is more likely to make a game winning shot.

So I would assume that you also think that the greatest players ever make the best coaches?

[winwin]

hmmm i don't see ginobli3211 in this thread.... why?



-

[kaiiu]

hmmm i don't see ginobli3211 in not in this thread.... why?


DMAVS41
He rite here:hammerhead:

[winwin]

He rite here:hammerhead:
oh my bad
lol @ this sociopath yes that's him .. no doubt

thanks doulike

[lakerspng]

the problem is, statgeeks are claiming other people have a higher percentage in "game winning situations" theefore they should be ranked higher.

This poll is not about percentages. it's about who the players would put their trust in to make something happen and get the game winning shot.

And by a large large margin, players in the league, who face him on a daily basis, think that with everything on the line, at the end of the game, he's the guy you want taking the shot. It's not about percentages, it's about gut instinct and trust and proven ability.

[AlphaWolf24]

Please tell me how having professional basketball skills makes you an authority on who is more likely to make a game winning shot.

So I would assume that you also think that the greatest players ever make the best coaches?


No great Coaches are forged through actually WORKING on a skill and having Understanding on how to obtain the skill...then having the passion to teach it.....the Working and understanding how to obtain it is more value then being great at the skill in coaching.....

NBA Players and Coaches Basketball is something they worked on and understand better then most.


and you are way off base BTW.....Majority of Coaches , Players , GM's and fans would pick Kobe....it's only a small % of hardcore fans who use flawed stats that are saying otherwise.


so it's not the average fan I'm saying has no knowledge...it's the basketball elitists like yourself who thinks you know more or have a better understanding.....when in reality it's the exact opposite.

[Hyperephania]

If you see Tyson Gay and Usain Bolt run, one by one, not in a race against eachother, and you think to yourself: "Hey Tyson Gay is faster than Usain Bolt."
If even the all other sprinters thought so to themselves would that make it correct, when we infact know that Usain Bolt ran the distance in 9,68 seconds and Tyson Gay in 9,73 seconds?

Going by the logic that the majority is right is flawed in my opinion, you will always have to look at results.

[jlip]

No great Coaches are forged through actually WORKING on a skill and having Understanding on how to obtain the skill...then having the passion to teach it.....the Working and understanding how to obtain it is more value then being great at the skill in coaching.....

NBA Players and Coaches Basketball is something they worked on and understand better then most.


and you are way off base BTW.....Majority of Coaches , Players , GM's and fans would pick Kobe....it's only a small % of hardcore fans who use flawed stats that are saying otherwise.


so it's not the average fan I'm saying has no knowledge...it's the basketball elitists like yourself who thinks you know more or have a better understanding.....when in reality it's the exact opposite.

Why would you consider me an "elitist"? Frankly I haven't given my opinion on who I feel would be the best at this particular facet of the game. So honestly you are being extremely presumptuous as you are guided by your blind devotion to Kobe. Also, properly determining who is most likely to hit a game winning shot does not come from assessing skills or gathering some greater "understanding" as you put it, through playing the sport. It's simply a matter of knowing how many times a player has made the shot vs. how many times he's actually taken it. It's a results- based conclusion which anyone who watches or has access to the facts can be privy to. There is no "inside information" about this matter that you gather from having played the sport.

And let's be real. The only reason you agree with the results of this poll is that they support a player that you favor. You have been arguing endlessly about how Kobe is better than MJ despite the fact that most players and coaches disagree. You accept evidence only when it supports you predetermined conclusions.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Leave it to the Kobe stans to deny facts and make excuses. Reading some of these posts you can tell peoples philosophies are all screwed up.

[lakerspng]

If you see Tyson Gay and Usain Bolt run, one by one, not in a race against eachother, and you think to yourself: "Hey Tyson Gay is faster than Usain Bolt."
If even the all other sprinters thought so to themselves would that make it correct, when we infact know that Usain Bolt ran the distance in 9,68 seconds and Tyson Gay in 9,73 seconds?

Going by the logic that the majority is right is flawed in my opinion, you will always have to look at results.

The results of a basketball game are not dictated by statistics. You're making a correlation between statistics used to show who shoots a higher percentage, and a definitive final result.

One is an assumption based on many factors, the other is a cut and dry final result.

At the end of the game, it's easy to look back and say, well he I thought Kobe had a better chance to win, but he missed. Or see, I knew Kobe would get the job done and he won the game.

This is a poll tat asks players who they'd want to put their trust in. They chose Kobe. move on

[B]

Leave it to the Kobe stans to deny facts and make excuses. Reading some of these posts you can tell peoples philosophies are all screwed up.The facts are 75% of the players polled want the ball in Kobes hands for the final shot. That is not negotiable or debatable it is a fact

Now carry on

[sh0wtime]

Ray Allen is the correct answer. :)

[Moneyshot]

Still hilarious the things the kids on here say year after year when this survey from NBA players comes out with Kobe on top. I bet all 74% of those 166 players who voted have experienced the feeling of a late game kobe dagger first hand.

:rockon:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

[QUOTE=B

[Moneyshot]

These last few years have been pretty hard for you Kobe/Laker haters havent it? :oldlol: :oldlol:


GM's, coaches, players all say the same thing about Kobe, but hey... what do they know, right? Random nerds on some random message board are much better equipped to evaluate players.


:roll:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Up is down and down is up, right Kobe nutgaggers? :lol

[Moneyshot]

Up is down and down is up, right Kobe nutgaggers? :lol


[B]iro

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

[QUOTE=Moneyshot][B]iro

[Killbot]

Most the players that voted are playing are on the opposing side. Wanting Kobe to shoot is a good idea because you know Kobe is going to be selfish and predictable. He'll probably heave up a shot and miss. Clank! The players that vote for Kobe wins.

[The Decision]

Kobe do what Kobe do!!!

http://nsa26.casimages.com/img/2011/02/28/110228064224789122.gif http://nsa26.casimages.com/img/2011/02/28/110228064144409844.gif
http://nsa26.casimages.com/img/2011/02/28/110228064218528528.gif http://nsa25.casimages.com/img/2011/02/28/110228064222688129.gif
http://nsa26.casimages.com/img/2011/03/04/110304062927733416.gifhttp://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t39/Bladerskb/unclutchjames.gifhttp://nsa26.casimages.com/img/2011/03/07/110307120215365093.gif

Lebron doing work...

[Moneyshot]

It's sad that you have this many gifs of a player you obviously do not like. Disturbing really... and this is probably just an iota of your collection. Also the fact that you replied w/in 3 seconds of my last post with these gifs just tops off the creepiness. Go outside, get some fresh air my man... it'll do you some good.

:pimp:

[Moneyshot]

This goes for both of you!

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

It's sad that you have this many gifs of a player you obviously do not like. Disturbing really... and this is probably just an iota of your collection. Also the fact that you replied w/in 3 seconds of my last post with these gifs just tops off the creepiness. Go outside, get some fresh air my man... it'll do you some good.

:pimp:

Nah, just got it from another thread... Took me like 5 seconds. The mere fact your defending Kobe so feverishly tells me all I need to know. All the smiley faces and laughs; I get it. You're one of those dudes from Kobe's gay orgy parties. Or so says his ex-bodyguard.

Viewing Thread SI Poll of NBA Players: Who do you want shooting with Game on the line? @ 12:49 PM

Damn kid, as soon I typed my message low and behold who's refreshing the thread ever so quickly. LOL!

[Moneyshot]

Nah, just got it from another thread... Took me like 5 seconds. The mere fact your defending Kobe so feverishly tells me all I need to know. All the smiley faces and laughs; I get it. You're one of those dudes from Kobe's gay orgy parties. Or so says his ex-bodyguard.

Viewing Thread SI Poll of NBA Players: Who do you want shooting with Game on the line? @ 12:49 PM

Damn kid, as soon I typed my message low and behold who's refreshing the thread ever so quickly. LOL!

Defending Kobe feverishly? :oldlol:

I've been on this board for over 5 years, and i have a little over 100 posts... that's some feverish sh|t right there lol...

The mere fact that you throw out junior high insults when an argument isnt going your way is all i need to know.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Defending Kobe feverishly? :oldlol:

I've been on this board for over 5 years, and i have a little over 100 posts... that's some feverish sh|t right there lol...

The mere fact that you throw out junior high insults when an argument isnt going your way is all i need to know.

Kobe fan catching feelings. :lol

Your post with the definition of irony suits you well, bud.

[DMAVS41]

Nah, just got it from another thread... Took me like 5 seconds. The mere fact your defending Kobe so feverishly tells me all I need to know. All the smiley faces and laughs; I get it. You're one of those dudes from Kobe's gay orgy parties. Or so says his ex-bodyguard.

Viewing Thread SI Poll of NBA Players: Who do you want shooting with Game on the line? @ 12:49 PM

Damn kid, as soon I typed my message low and behold who's refreshing the thread ever so quickly. LOL!

What do you think has to come out in terms of evidence for people to admit a couple of guys are better at game winners? I mean.

Kobe has like 39 game winners right now for his entire career both regular season and playoffs. He shoots around 33%. Thats a fact.

Melo has like 26 game winners right now for his entire career both regular season and playoffs. He shoots around 50%. Thats a fact.

Melo is on pace to make way more than Kobe and at a much higher percentage.

We also know that Kobe's teams have the 12th best offensive efficiency throughout his career in game winning situations. We also know that Kobe's teams are outscored in these situations throughout his career. We also know that the Lakers don't win close games at a top 5 rate in the NBA.

What more is there? Even if Kobe is feared the most and draws the most attention, its not producing results that are in line with being the best. At some point the results have to be there.

This is literally like saying Kobe is a better free throw shooter than Nash. I don't get it.

[lakerspng]

Melo is great. He's a very clutch player and always has been. He may or may not end with more game winners in his career than Kobe.

But, that being said, last night may be a perfect indication of why other players in the league chose Kobe. Melo should not have made the play he did. He should have found a way to get a shot off. Passing to a guy that was not open, whose got no real inside game, against Kevin Garnet who's made countless big defensive plays... I just don't make that decision and he gave the ball up so quickly and easily. He's got to make a better play than that.

[DMAVS41]

Melo is great. He's a very clutch player and always has been. He may or may not end with more game winners in his career than Kobe.

But, that being said, last night may be a perfect indication of why other players in the league chose Kobe. Melo should not have made the play he did. He should have found a way to get a shot off. Passing to a guy that was not open, whose got no real inside game, against Kevin Garnet who's made countless big defensive plays... I just don't make that decision and he gave the ball up so quickly and easily. He's got to make a better play than that.
:facepalm

[Colby Brian]

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/2929/96350155.gif

http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/796/64416213.gif

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/2969/58739479.gif

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/1558/98359506.gif

http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/2227/50597564.gif

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/9863/91850414.gif

http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/9630/29001104.gif

Kobe do what Kobe do!!!

thats over his whole 15 year career, while the lebron ones are this year alone :roll:

[DMAVS41]

thats over his whole 15 year career, while the lebron ones are this year alone :roll:

Kobe has missed over 80 game winners. If you posted them all the site would shut down. LOL

[Colby Brian]

over 10 minutes of clutchness

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZuReGlBNro

http://i46.tinypic.com/kf2hwi.jpg

[Colby Brian]

Kobe has missed over 80 game winners. If you posted them all the site would shut down. LOL

and the most game winners of alltime with 36

http://cdn1.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/061/954/original/Kobe-U-Mad.jpg

[DMAVS41]

and the most game winners of alltime with 36

http://cdn1.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/061/954/original/Kobe-U-Mad.jpg

Actually Kobe has 39 or 40 right now. Dude has made a ton of huge shots. Definitely one of the best game winning shot makers of this era.

Just not the best.

[Colby Brian]

Actually Kobe has 39 or 40 right now. Dude has made a ton of huge shots. Definitely one of the best game winning shot makers of this era.

Just not the best.

agreed, top 5 clutch

[Jon101]

0 votes for Lebrick. Hahahahaha. How is he the best player in the league when no one fears/trusts him in the clutch? Stats are so overrated. This guy has won nothing in 7 years yet he's seen as the best player because the media says so...what a shame. As we can see, players don't respect him. Rose and KD will surpass him next year.

[monkeypox]

What do you think has to come out in terms of evidence for people to admit a couple of guys are better at game winners? I mean.

Kobe has like 39 game winners right now for his entire career both regular season and playoffs. He shoots around 33%. Thats a fact.

Melo has like 26 game winners right now for his entire career both regular season and playoffs. He shoots around 50%. Thats a fact.

Melo is on pace to make way more than Kobe and at a much higher percentage.

We also know that Kobe's teams have the 12th best offensive efficiency throughout his career in game winning situations. We also know that Kobe's teams are outscored in these situations throughout his career. We also know that the Lakers don't win close games at a top 5 rate in the NBA.

What more is there? Even if Kobe is feared the most and draws the most attention, its not producing results that are in line with being the best. At some point the results have to be there.

This is literally like saying Kobe is a better free throw shooter than Nash. I don't get it.

gamewinners as judged by whom? Which variation of the game winning shot stat? The one that counts meaningless baskets at the end of games just because the team ended up within three when the buzzer sounded even though the game was never in contention? Or is it the version ESPN used once that suddenly gave LeBron like 12 extra game winners? You still don't get it do you? A made shot is a made shot, but this is a question of who you want to take the shot with the game on the line which is not something that has a simple stat. Opinion taints the stat once someone decides to draw the line where a shot should be counted a game winner or not.

Consider this hypothetical. We have a player that makes 70% of his shots towards the end of a game when the team is up by three or less. The only problem is that when his team is down three or less he always chokes or passes the ball away. Even worse than that he tends to choke in major, high pressure games. Yet since he defers in pressure situations and when they're down, his %'s are still tops in the league. If you asked a player who you would have shoot the last shot, most peers would not name this player. But you... because his stat is the highest would put the ball in his hands at your peril because to you the numbers are king.

Say what you want about %, but players feel that Kobe is the one they'd want to shoot the ball at the end of games. Maybe that's because he can do it in more varied situations than those that have higher % than he does. Makes sense since none of the players were given a specific scenario to consider.

[DMAVS41]

gamewinners as judged by whom? Which variation of the game winning shot stat? The one that counts meaningless baskets at the end of games just because the team ended up within three when the buzzer sounded even though the game was never in contention? Or is it the version ESPN used once that suddenly gave LeBron like 12 extra game winners? You still don't get it do you? A made shot is a made shot, but this is a question of who you want to take the shot with the game on the line which is not something that has a simple stat. Opinion taints the stat once someone decides to draw the line where a shot should be counted a game winner or not.

Consider this hypothetical. We have a player that makes 70% of his shots towards the end of a game when the team is up by three or less. The only problem is that when his team is down three or less he always chokes or passes the ball away. Even worse than that he tends to choke in major, high pressure games. Yet since he defers in pressure situations and when they're down, his %'s are still tops in the league. If you asked a player who you would have shoot the last shot, most peers would not name this player. But you... because his stat is the highest would put the ball in his hands at your peril because to you the numbers are king.

Say what you want about %, but players feel that Kobe is the one they'd want to shoot the ball at the end of games. Maybe that's because he can do it in more varied situations than those that have higher % than he does. Makes sense since none of the players were given a specific scenario to consider.


The stat counts every single make and miss in the last 24 seconds to win or tie a game. I don't know what else you want.

The question is who do you want shooting the last shot with the game on the line. The voting is useless considering the best shot maker over the last 8 years in this exact situation didn't get a single vote.

Why is that? Maybe because perception is trumping reality.

Who is better at game winners.....Melo or Durant....please answer.

[kaiiu]

0 votes for Lebrick. Hahahahaha. How is he the best player in the league when no one fears/trusts him in the clutch? Stats are so overrated. This guy has won nothing in 7 years yet he's seen as the best player because the media says so...what a shame. As we can see, players don't respect him. Rose and KD will surpass him next year.
:oldlol: :oldlol: :cheers: :applause:

[STATUTORY]

so lemme guess who voted for Wade:

Lebron
Chalmers
Joel Anthony

:roll:

[monkeypox]

The stat counts every single make and miss in the last 24 seconds to win or tie a game. I don't know what else you want.

The question is who do you want shooting the last shot with the game on the line. The voting is useless considering the best shot maker over the last 8 years in this exact situation didn't get a single vote.

Why is that? Maybe because perception is trumping reality.

Who is better at game winners.....Melo or Durant....please answer.

Still doesn't really matter. Think as an NBA player. Are you going to remember every basket that was made in the last 24 seconds to win or tie a game like the stat does? No. You're going to remember the hard ones in game the games that matter. For whatever reason, even though Melo stacks up the stats, his shots didn't leave an impression on his peers. So consider that perhaps that's because he didn't make the hard ones in hard games that were worth remembering by other players.

You're still stuck on the veracity of the statistic and ignoring that what it implies is opinion. Reality only tells you who makes the most go ahead shots in the last 24 seconds of a game. (I believe in this variation of the stat they even count if you lose the game correct?) The players aren't considering it this way and aren't asked to consider it this way. They're being asked who'd they would trust most to take a shot with the game on the line which considers a multitude of factors not included in the stats and includes their own personal experiences directly with the scenario in question. An overwhelming majority said Kobe and zero said Melo.

[DMAVS41]

Still doesn't really matter. Think as an NBA player. Are you going to remember every basket that was made in the last 24 seconds to win or tie a game like the stat does? No. You're going to remember the hard ones in game the games that matter. For whatever reason, even though Melo stacks up the stats, his shots didn't leave an impression on his peers. So consider that perhaps that's because he didn't make the hard ones in hard games that were worth remembering by other players.

You're still stuck on the veracity of the statistic and ignoring that what it implies is opinion. Reality only tells you who makes the most go ahead shots in the last 24 seconds of a game. (I believe in this variation of the stat they even count if you lose the game correct?) The players aren't considering it this way and aren't asked to consider it this way. They're being asked who'd they would trust most to take a shot with the game on the line which considers a multitude of factors not included in the stats and includes their own personal experiences directly with the scenario in question. An overwhelming majority said Kobe and zero said Melo.


Exactly. The players have an incomplete picture. If they sat down and watched every single game winning play from Kobe and Melo....nobody would pick Kobe.

You'd actually see all the forces and airballs and turnovers committed by Kobe. You'd see his inefficiency.

With Melo you'd see a different story. Thats the point.

Its not even a stat. Forget about the stat. Its the same thing as sitting down and watching the video of every single play.

It just defies common sense and logic to ignore evidence for a perception based opinion.

This is not who's better in the clutch. Its who's better on game winners. Its just evidence based within reason. No different than free throw shooting. You are in a certain situation and how you perform matters. Other players have performed better than Kobe individually....and to make matters worse for Kobe, his teams have not performed great either.

LOL at using a player poll that the best player gets no votes over evidence. Priceless.

[monkeypox]

Exactly. The players have an incomplete picture. If they sat down and watched every single game winning play from Kobe and Melo....nobody would pick Kobe.

You'd actually see all the forces and airballs and turnovers committed by Kobe. You'd see his inefficiency.

With Melo you'd see a different story. Thats the point.

Its not even a stat. Forget about the stat. Its the same thing as sitting down and watching the video of every single play.

It just defies common sense and logic to ignore evidence for a perception based opinion.

This is not who's better in the clutch. Its who's better on game winners. Its just evidence based within reason. No different than free throw shooting. You are in a certain situation and how you perform matters. Other players have performed better than Kobe individually....and to make matters worse for Kobe, his teams have not performed great either.

LOL at using a player poll that the best player gets no votes over evidence. Priceless.

It's only priceless because you still hold the stat as the truth of the question. Again, the question wasn't who scored the most go ahead buckets in the final 24 seconds, it's who would you want to take the shot. You think it's whoever has the highest % of shots made in the final 24 seconds of a game. Players disagree. Again, if I'm not mistaken your game winner stat counts even in loses. And even if not they're still just context-less stats. It doesn't tell the story of the game or what those baskets meant. It doesn't give you pause for even a second that ZERO players even thought to put Melo on their lists?

So you have actually seen video of every single shot Kobe/Melo/Dirk took in the final 24 seconds of games? Or maybe you just remember the horrible misses because they reenforce a pre-existing bias that the players don't have. Players actually watch game tape as part of their job, and I'm not just talking about blurry gifs or youtube vids. It's laughable that you think you've seen more than the players have

It's not at all as simple as free throws. Really think about it, think about what the question asks and what you've assumed to be the facts.

[Jon101]

The players are more credible because they are not biased...most of them probably hate Kobe as he's notoriously known as a jackass. They have no ulterior motive to vote for him. Lemme see...whose opinion should I trust...professional NBA players with no bias or a bunch of stans butthurt that their guy didn't receive the most votes. That is tough.....not really.

[SourPatchKids]

Korver.

[SkyR#1fanCapCou]

D-Fish or anybody who's being guarded by D-Fish :rockon:

[BEAST Griffin]

It's only priceless because you still hold the stat as the truth of the question. Again, the question wasn't who scored the most go ahead buckets in the final 24 seconds, it's who would you want to take the shot. You think it's whoever has the highest % of shots made in the final 24 seconds of a game. Players disagree. Again, if I'm not mistaken your game winner stat counts even in loses. And even if not they're still just context-less stats. It doesn't tell the story of the game or what those baskets meant. It doesn't give you pause for even a second that ZERO players even thought to put Melo on their lists?

So you have actually seen video of every single shot Kobe/Melo/Dirk took in the final 24 seconds of games? Or maybe you just remember the horrible misses because they reenforce a pre-existing bias that the players don't have. Players actually watch game tape as part of their job, and I'm not just talking about blurry gifs or youtube vids. It's laughable that you think you've seen more than the players have

It's not at all as simple as free throws. Really think about it, think about what the question asks and what you've assumed to be the facts.

So you just assume Kobe is the best at it. Gotcha.

[Boston C's]

1. Kobe 2. Ray Allen 3. Melo 4. Dirk. 5. Durant

My list although if a need a 3 pointer then ray allen gets my vote easily... I would be comfortable with either of these guys taking a shot with the game on the line for me though... I got love for pierce as well but he just missed my top 5 because he struggled in such situations this yr (I believe he was 1-4 with the game on the line) with the game winner being made when the game was tied against the knicks while missing against the raptors and wizards with his team down 1 and in need of a score. However pierce is still as clutch as they come and would still be fine with him having the ball for the last shot. For all the people who talk about kobes career its an arguement you cant make the question is which player TODAY would you rather have not career wise and TODAY kobe is an assassin that teams fear when he has the ball with a chance to win he gets the job done TODAY more often then not

[Hulk Hogan]

Certainly not Dirk. 0 for 7 at one point in today's game.

[jlauber]

Certainly not Dirk. 0 for 7 at one point in today's game.

Here we go again...

How about Kobe in the last six minutes of game one, then?

BTW, 10-21 with 25 points and 9 rebounds...

[macpierce]

kobe or melo

[Hulk Hogan]

Here we go again...

How about Kobe in the last six minutes of game one, then?

BTW, 10-21 with 25 points and 9 rebounds...

Where was white boy in the clutch today?

[Boston C's]

Certainly not Dirk. 0 for 7 at one point in today's game.

Dirk is a tough guard with the game on the line...try guarding a 7 footer that can get a decent look on you anytime you want it isnt exactly easy...hes proven he can hit the big shot you obviously have some bias towards him and if the 170 players that were polled this question have dirk in their top 5 I think I'll take their word rather then yours lol

[creepingdeath]

Where was white boy in the clutch today?
9 points in the last 7 minutes. OMFG, you fail so hard. :facepalm

[jlauber]

9 points in the last 7 minutes. OMFG, you fail so hard. :facepalm

:applause:

[Hulk Hogan]

9 points in the last 7 minutes. OMFG, you fail so hard. :facepalm

0 for 7? Selective memory much?

[Boston C's]

0 for 7? Selective memory much?


lol you vs 170 nba players asked this=fail... out of curiosity I would love to know your top 5 so we can compare

[jlauber]

0 for 7? Selective memory much?

Why the hate? Do you honestly believe that Kobe is the only great player in the game today?

[Assassin]

Ray Ray

[Boston C's]

Ray Ray

FOR THE WIN GOT IT AT THE BUZZERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR lol

[DMAVS41]

It's only priceless because you still hold the stat as the truth of the question. Again, the question wasn't who scored the most go ahead buckets in the final 24 seconds, it's who would you want to take the shot. You think it's whoever has the highest % of shots made in the final 24 seconds of a game. Players disagree. Again, if I'm not mistaken your game winner stat counts even in loses. And even if not they're still just context-less stats. It doesn't tell the story of the game or what those baskets meant. It doesn't give you pause for even a second that ZERO players even thought to put Melo on their lists?

So you have actually seen video of every single shot Kobe/Melo/Dirk took in the final 24 seconds of games? Or maybe you just remember the horrible misses because they reenforce a pre-existing bias that the players don't have. Players actually watch game tape as part of their job, and I'm not just talking about blurry gifs or youtube vids. It's laughable that you think you've seen more than the players have

It's not at all as simple as free throws. Really think about it, think about what the question asks and what you've assumed to be the facts.

I really don't follow this line of thinking at all.

You are basically saying that because other players would want certain players shooting the last shot it makes it right.

Sorry. This is simply poor logic and flat out wrong. There is absolutely no way in hell Durant can be considered a better game winning shot maker than Melo. No way in hell.

So what does that tell you about the perception based opinions of players? You want us to take what they say as fact because you agree with it?

I have no problem with someone saying they want Kobe taking the last shot. That is their right to say that and their opinion.

However, if you are going to use that as evidence that Kobe or Durant are better than Carmelo and Dirk in these situations....its hugely flawed.

A poll done before the season....GM's voted Billups 2nd. Billups is actually the worst game winning shot maker of the last 5 years in the entire league. He's made 3 of his last 27 attempts. LOL

Its more than just simple stats as well. When ESPN tracked this, all they did is go through each game played and saw what happened. Every make and miss listed happened. It was a basketball play. Video evidence exists. So I don't know how you can just dismiss 15 years of data on the subject in favor of a perception based opinion.

Furthermore, they have tracked team performance. Not only does Kobe perform worse individually, but his teams are not near the top either. Dirk's teams win the most close games of this era actually. The Mavs have by far the best record in tight games since the 05 season.

Also, in game winning situations, Kobe's teams are actually outscored with him on the floor. The Lakers offensive efficiency goes from 1st overall....to 12th in game winning situations.

So lets get this straight:

1. Kobe shoots considerably worse on game winners than Melo and Dirk
2. Kobe's teams do not win close games at a high rate. Not top 5.
3. Kobe's teams have the 12th best offensive efficiency in game winning situations

So how is Kobe the best? It just doesn't make sense. Nobody.....and I mean nobody is claiming that Kobe isn't clutch. He very much is. He's a great clutch player and has made huge shots time and time again.

But trying to assert that the perception based opinions of players that are clearly misinformed trumps over 15 years of evidence is laughable.

And the flaw is apparent when Carmelo received not votes. He's by far the best game winning shot maker of the last 8 years. Its really not close. He's on pace to make the most ever and at by far the highest percentage of this era (post jordan). Only in a ****ing perception based fantasy land can a guy produce like that and get no votes for something. Makes absolutely no sense and calls into question the validity of using players' opinions on the subject at all.

[DMAVS41]

Where was white boy in the clutch today?

Well. He actually made shots down the stretch.

And this thread was about making game winning shots. Not overall clutch play.

And on game winners, Dirk and his teams have performed better than Kobe and his teams.

Just a fact.

Dirk makes them at close to a 10% higher rate after this seasons, the Mavs have a higher offensive efficiency, and the Mavs win more close games.

So I'm still confused as to why we should rank Kobe over Dirk?

Better individually? Dirk
Who wins more close game? Dirk
Which players' team performs better offensively? Dirk

Come again?

[jjayfive]

on game winners, kobe misses and makes a bunch..

kobe is not afraid to put his legacy on the line..

off the top of my head....

kobe, pierce, carmelo and maybe dirk and wade..

[Laker4Lyfe]

Regardless of stats or not, are some people here honestly trying to argue that THEY know better than 74% of the players in the NBA?

Everybody is entitled to their opinion, but writing chapters on why YOUR opinion should be more valued than those who ACTUALLY play the game is laughable.

ISH :lol

[madmax]

Give me Ray Ray to make a tough shot when it counts anytime:cheers:
And LOL at all the votes for Kobrick Cryant - one of the least efficient last shot makers of all time:facepalm

[DMAVS41]

Regardless of stats or not, are some people here honestly trying to argue that THEY know better than 74% of the players in the NBA?

Everybody is entitled to their opinion, but writing chapters on why YOUR opinion should be more valued than those who ACTUALLY play the game is laughable.

ISH :lol

This is the problem right here. Its not my opinion. Its hard evidence. And clearly the evidence trumps the opinions of players.

Would anyone here take Durant over Melo on a game winner? Nope. Why? Because we've all seen the data. Would any player vote Durant over Melo given the data? Nope.

Its not opinion. That is your problem.

Sad sad day when the perception based opinions of anyone trumps 15 plus years of evidence.

Sigh......