Tim Duncan looking totally washed up in first round playoff series vs Grizzlies

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Has an all time great ever flamed out in the playoffs this shamefully?

[Reverend Hoops]

To say he is a shell of himself is being generous. Time to move on Spurs fans. The 'dynasty' is over.

[thomaspynchon]

He's been done since 2008

[Hotshoot]

This goes to show how key Duncan was in the title runs.

[Samurai Swoosh]

What dynasty do you speak of ...

One of their rings doesn't even count (1999 season)

And they never won back to back.

Far from a dynasty, my dude. To call them that would be an insult to real dynasties.

[Fatal9]

Dirk easily has the most shameful exit, and he was in his prime too. This isn't too bad considering he's no where near where he once was.

[heyhey]

http://cache.sharenxs.com/images/wz/cabb/aj/a-/af/be/TimDuncameGamOverLH.gif

[ashbelly]

Dirk easily has the most shameful exit, and he was in his prime too.

:eek: and they are on the verge of another beat down.

[SCdac]

He just turned 35... and has carried the franchise on his back since he came into the league... give the guy a break

[CHi1PriDe]

moment of silence... :violin:

[Meticode]

What dynasty do you speak of ...

One of their rings doesn't even count (1999 season)

And they never won back to back.

Far from a dynasty, my dude. To call them that would be an insult to real dynasties.
Why does the 1999 ring not count?

[SCdac]

eh, they just need to get him to cut and slash more, and take more jump shots/perfect his jump shooting game/emphasize it more in the offense...

The days of him breaking down players one on one, play after play, are over IMO...

But that's not to say he can't score efficiently, and enough to be one of the best bigs, it's just the Spurs this season didn't call for it... It's not the way they became so good this season.

[Mrofir]

What dynasty do you speak of ...

One of their rings doesn't even count (1999 season)

And they never won back to back.

Far from a dynasty, my dude. To call them that would be an insult to real dynasties.

Blarlhghghghghhghg I vomit on your post

[Samurai Swoosh]

Why does the 1999 ring not count?
Shortened NBA season. Asterik next to it. Fugazy title. They didn't play a full 82 games + playoffs.

But back to the point, you believe they are a "dynasty" even though they were never dominant enough to win back to back titles?

:oldlol:

[jlauber]

Well, he is no longer the Duncan of 2005...but he has had three double-doubles in this series. He certainly doesn't have to apologize for his play.

And, I feel pretty confident in saying that he will be a first-ballot HOFer...and on almost every inteliigent "top-10" list.

Personally, I hope he has at least a couple of good year's left. He has been a class act, and a loyal athlete. I'm sure he has had opportunities in his career to move to a loaded team, but, instead chose to stay and make San Antonio the team of the 00's.

[Mrofir]

Shortened NBA season. Asterik next to it. Fugazy title. They didn't play a full 82 games + playoffs.

But back to the point, you believe they are a "dynasty" even though they were never dominant enough to win back to back titles?

:oldlol:


YES

[Kensta]

He just turned 35... and has carried the franchise on his back since he came into the league... give the guy a break

This

[KingMichael23]

http://cache.sharenxs.com/images/wz/cabb/aj/a-/af/be/TimDuncameGamOverLH.gif
Timmy showing some cockiness. That's un-Duncan like. I like it.

[Samurai Swoosh]

and on almost every inteliigent "top-10" list.
Uhhh ...

That's not a for definite

Jordan
Bird
Magic
Chamberlain
O'Neal
Olajawoun
Russell
Jabbar
Bryant
Robertson

If LeBron wins 2 rings he catapaults into the top ten, as well.

[Odinn]

To say he is a shell of himself is being generous. Time to move on Spurs fans. The 'dynasty' is over.
Why did you start this topic after game1 or game3?:facepalm

Yes, his time past as a carrier. But it doesn't mean he's not a good player any more.

[creepingdeath]

Has an all time great ever flamed out in the playoffs this shamefully?
I don't know, but are you mad that Timmy is being called the GOAT player of his position unlike a certain Kobe Bryant, who will NEVER be called that?


Dirk easily has the most shameful exit, and he was in his prime too. This isn't too bad considering he's no where near where he once was.
Oops, you just admitted that Dirk is an all-time great. Damn, that's not what you intended to say, right? How embarassing.

[Samurai Swoosh]

YES
Then you would be an idiot.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Hotshoot]

Uhhh ...

That's not a for definite

Jordan
Bird
Magic
Chamberlain
O'Neal
Olajawoun
Russell
Jabbar
Bryant
Robertson

If LeBron wins 2 rings he catapaults into the top ten, as well.

IMO Duncan > Hakeem

[Fatal9]

Shortened NBA season. Asterik next to it. Fugazy title. They didn't play a full 82 games + playoffs.

But back to the point, you believe they are a "dynasty" even though they were never dominant enough to win back to back titles?

:oldlol:
2007 title = bigger asterisk. Disgusting what happened to the Suns.

But yea, not a dynasty. '99 and '07 rings have a huge asterisk to me. They never really won in a dominating fashion ('99 I guess but that was a weird year). Their finals competition other than '05 was terrible. They never won back to back. They have been living in the shadow of the Laker franchise this decade, 1-4 record against them in the playoffs.

Spurs were however the team that was most consistent. Whenever the NBA would have a weak year competition wise or a dynasty would crumble (post '98 Bulls, Laker decline from '05-'07), their consistency always put them in position to scoop up rings during those years.

They rightfully will never get the respect of other true dynasty teams because they didn't dominate/win like them.

[Samurai Swoosh]

IMO Duncan > Hakeem
Debatable at best

[Samurai Swoosh]

2007 title = bigger asterisk. Disgusting what happened to the Suns.
Oh crap ... I completely forgot about that, my dude ...

Thanks for reminding me about the epic screw job that year. I tought the Suns were destined to get to the Finals that year.

[RainierBeachPoet]

he sure looked OLD tonight... it happens to all the greats though

[Yao Ming's Foot]

I don't know, but are you mad that Timmy is being called the GOAT player of his position unlike a certain Kobe Bryant, who will NEVER be called that?


What does Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan have to do with the topic? Jordan's shameful exit from the league had to do with sitting the bench for the Barons instead of competing for championships but that didn't happen in the playoffs.

[BlackJoker23]

2007 title = bigger asterisk. Disgusting what happened to the Suns.
well, you can add an asterisk to all their titles :oldlol:

05 - wade got injured in the playoffs
03 - dirk got injured in the wcf. webber also went down in the wcsf so they would've probably faced the kings

[Samurai Swoosh]

2007 title = bigger asterisk. Disgusting what happened to the Suns.
Not to mention they played literally the worst team I've ever seen in an NBA Finals in all my life aka the 2007 Cleveland Cavaliers.

[Hotshoot]

Debatable at best
Why is that? Hakeem and Duncan playoff stats are very identical (Duncan has edge in rebounds and Hakeem has edge in PPG/Blks). Duncan has been far better clutch performer than Hakeem was and the 4 titles over 2, so i would go with Duncan.

[Samurai Swoosh]

well, you can add an asterisk to all their titles :oldlol:

05 - wade got injured in the playoffs
03 - dirk got injured in the wcf. webber also went down in the wcsf so they would've probably faced the kings
Nah ..injuries are part of the game. You have to deal with them.

Shortened NBA seasons, and screw ball calls that can decide the out come of a series ala 2007 v.s. Phoenix are a horse of a different color.

[KenneBell]

He said he was going to play until the wheels fell off. Duncan's running on 3 tires right now with one threatening to break off.

If there's a lockout, I can't see him returning.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Why is that? Hakeem and Duncan playoff stats are very identical (Duncan has edge in rebounds and Hakeem has edge in PPG/Blks). Duncan has been far better clutch performer than Hakeem was and the 4 titles over 2, so i would go with Duncan.
Because it's just debatable.

Hakeem was every bit as good, if not better.

Who was Hakeem's 2nd best player with his first championship team? Otis Thorpe? Vernon Maxwell? Kenny Smith?

Duncan, an all-time great no doubt, has been consistently surrounded with very good talent at every position virtually his entire career.

In my mind, I don't think Duncan is even superior to Garnett, honestly.

He wasn't a superior clutch player ... and it's very debatable. Hakeem was flat out dominant and played against much stiffer competiton at the position.

Duncan basically played Center and since the end of the 90's the competition at that position has gotten decidingly worse every single season.

[creepingdeath]

What does Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan have to do with the topic? Jordan's shameful exit from the league had to do with sitting the bench for the Barons instead of competing for championships but that didn't happen in the playoffs.
A topic by you has everything to do with the black mamba.

[thomaspynchon]

I guess you missed the series two seasons ago where he had 2 points in Game 4 where Dirk and the boys demolished the spurs 4-1

[Zackmorris]

We putting asterisks next to championships now? :lol

[t-rex]

its always sad to see, but it happens to everyone.

Father time is undefeated.

My last images of the great Larry Bird are of him laying on his stomach near the bench area nursing a bad back and sore elbow.

I honestly believe part of the reason why Kareem Abdul Jabbar is so often underrated in GOAT discussions, is because an entire generation of people only know of him as the bald headed, goggled man who averaged 13pts per game ON MAGIC JOHNSON'S LAKERS LOL!:facepalm

One day father time will get us too.

Tim Duncan has had a HOF career. But like every other great player or person who ever has, or will walk the planet, his time has come.

[imlmf]

can't call them a dynasty, never able to defend their titles

[jlauber]

We putting asterisks next to championships now? :lol

If that is the case...you can probably put one on almost every champion. You will find an opponent with an injured player; or a year in which the toughest opponent was upset by another team, which gave the eventual champ a smoother ride to their crown; or an opponent that just BLEW a couple of games, etc., etc.

IF we are going to do that, then I nominate the '68 Sixers and the '84 Lakers as the true champions.

[Samurai Swoosh]

IF we are going to do that, then I nominate the '68 Sixers and the '84 Lakers as the true champions.
Bulls beat the best competition every single year they won the championship.

[Hondo]

Time to rip up your horrendous contract and go to Miami or Boston for the minimum.

[t-rex]

Is it my turn yet to start another Tim Duncan thread?

[jlauber]

Time to rip up your horrendous contract and go to Miami or Boston for the minimum.


LOL! Great post.



Is it my turn yet to start another Tim Duncan thread?

As long as you only RIP him. Let's all kick him while he is down.

[Hotshoot]

Because it's just debatable.

Hakeem was every bit as good, if not better.

Who was Hakeem's 2nd best player with his first championship team? Otis Thorpe? Vernon Maxwell? Kenny Smith?

Duncan, an all-time great no doubt, has been consistently surrounded with very good talent at every position virtually his entire career.

In my mind, I don't think Duncan is even superior to Garnett, honestly.

He wasn't a superior clutch player ... and it's very debatable. Hakeem was flat out dominant and played against much stiffer competiton at the position.

Duncan basically played Center and since the end of the 90's the competition at that position has gotten decidingly worse every single season.

Rockets 93-94 had very good depth (duncan didn't have a good no 2 player either). I would give Admiral a slight edge over Thorpe but Rockets lineup with Maxwell, Kenny, Cassell etc was better than what Spurs had.

Yes Hakeem went up against better big men but the guards are far bigger now and these days bigs can get into foul trouble very easily.

[Fatal9]

Why is that? Hakeem and Duncan playoff stats are very identical (Duncan has edge in rebounds and Hakeem has edge in PPG/Blks). Duncan has been far better clutch performer than Hakeem was and the 4 titles over 2, so i would go with Duncan.
Those include Hakeem's stats from when he was 36, 37 and 39. Up until the age Duncan is now, Hakeem's playoff stats were 27.3 ppg, 11.6 rpg, 3.4 apg, 3.4 bpg on 53+% shooting, Duncan averages 23/12/3.4 on 50%. Those aren't "identical" stats.

Stats aside, the thing that always separates Hakeem and Duncan is that Hakeem is CLEARLY a superior offensive player and a much better scorer. And Hakeem is the most clutch center I've seen in that pressure never fazes him, it's been like that with him since he entered the league when he just went out and took down the Lakers in '86. Total fearless attitude from the start. Dude always came to ball in the playoffs too, rarely see him play poorly from an individual standpoint.

[Scoooter]

I was really hoping he'd hit another gear come playoff time.

[Hondo]

Tim Duncan is certainly more deserving of being in the top 10 than Oscar Robertson. He was a stat-padder and only won when he was carried by Kareem.

[Hondo]

Is it my turn yet to start another Tim Duncan thread?

Yes. Or you can make a Manu or TP thread. After all, all TP is good for is for wiping your ass. LOL

[Samurai Swoosh]

Tim Duncan is certainly more deserving of being in the top 10 than Oscar Robertson. He was a stat-padder and only won when he was carried by Kareem.
Not really. Oscar Robertson re-defined his position and was an innovator.

LeBron wins 2 rings minimum, and for someone who doesn't even really like him, I freely admit he SLAMS his way into the top ten of all-time quite easily, kicking one or two of them out.

Tim Duncan really only has 1 legit Championship Ring ... TO ME

And having watched his entire career, I don't even see him being better than Garnett, Barkely, Malone, etc

He just got lucky and picked up GARBAGE rings after the crumble of a few REAL dynasties IE late 90's Bulls, early 2000 Lakers, etc. and got the benefit of a shortened and weird NBA season, and a bull shit series v.s. Phoenix, and the worst NBA Finals opponent quite possibly of all-time (2007 Cleveland Cavs)

2005 was their only legit competition, and legit year winning it.

And Duncan has always had Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker, David Robinson, Jefferson, Stephen Jackson, Bruce Bowen, Robert Horry

Just a litany of very good players.

If Garnett had near that caliber of a coach and supporting cast for the duration of his career, he would've been just as if not more successful IMO.

And if Duncan can't seperate himself in my mind's eye from his generation's toughest comp (Garnett) and really doesn't even seperate himself for me from the previous generation's bets at the position (Barkely, Garnett) ... here is no way in hell I'm putting him in the top ten of all-time.

You must be crazy. Or from San Antonio.

[ukplayer4]

hes averaging 15/11/3 bpg and is 35 years old, as usual hes all alone inside.




agenda is clear as usual, this doesnt help kobe in anyway stop embarrassing yourself

[10x91= 5 Rings]

99 was really a sh*tty year.Bulls were dismantled,Lockout....

[knightfall88]

Tim Duncan hasnt been a first option player in a years now. That doesn't mean he is done, it just means he can only be a solid 2nd or 3rd option

[t-rex]

Yes. Or you can make a Manu or TP thread. After all, all TP is good for is for wiping your ass. LOL



Wow, hey just relax, it was only joke. Plus don't you know the 11th commandment…. "Thow shall not speak ill of another member of Celtics Nation!":cheers:

[jlauber]

Nope...what we saw tonight was the REAL Duncan. This is THE game in which he will be remembered.

He won't make the HOF, and you won't find his name on any top-50 lists.

He should apologize for his 3 Finals MVPs and his 4 rings, too. He was always WAY over-rated. In fact, if the Spurs had BENCHED him in the last decade, with their loaded rosters, they would have won even more rings.

A washed-up "never was."

Most here probably never saw Willie Mays play. The Mays that was on the Mets late in his career...and stumbling in the outfield, was the REAL Mays.

And how about Kareem in his last game...in a sweeping loss in the Finals? 29 mins, 2-8 shooting, 7 pts, and 3 rebs. That was the REAL Kareem.

[DMAVS41]

Nope...what we saw tonight was the REAL Duncan. This is THE game in which he will be remembered.

He won't make the HOF, and you won't find his name on any top-50 lists.

He should apologize for his 3 Finals MVPs and his 4 rings, too. He was always WAY over-rated. In fact, if the Spurs had BENCHED him in the last decade, with their loaded rosters, they would have won even more rings.

A washed-up "never was."

As usual the morons here can't look beyond ppg averages. Duncan is going against two solid post players....what did they do tonight by the way?

Was Gasol/Randolph the difference in the game? Hardly. They did virtually nothing tonight.

[vinsane01]

Wow. The level of hate and/or ignorance here is amazing. Duncan is widely regarded as being the best PF the game has ever seen. I personally dont care about any all time list. But if i had to make one duncan would be in it and he will in many lists of fans as well.

Duncan is not yet done. Yes, the years of dominance is over. It was over even back in 09. But he is still a top big man in the league. He just needs more help in the paint than usual. If the spurs front office can provide that, then we are back in business for a good 2 years more.

[DMAVS41]

Dirk easily has the most shameful exit, and he was in his prime too. This isn't too bad considering he's no where near where he once was.

Yea. Dirk has really flamed out. Just averaging 27/8/3 in the series and outplaying LA overall pretty badly now after 5 games.

Damn. The standards for Dirk are pretty high.

[jlauber]

Yea. Dirk has really flamed out. Just averaging 27/8/3 in the series and outplaying LA overall pretty badly now after 5 games.

Damn. The standards for Dirk are pretty high.

Yeah...what is up with that? Doesn't he know that the Mavs were supposed to lose tonight? Oh, well, he has two more games in which he can be labeled the "failure" again...even if he puts up 35-15 games.

[BlackJoker23]

Yea. Dirk has really flamed out. Just averaging 27/8/3 in the series and outplaying LA overall pretty badly now after 5 games.

Damn. The standards for Dirk are pretty high.
umm, he's pretty clearly talking about the 07 series and there's really no justification for that.

[jlauber]

umm, he's pretty clearly talking about the 07 series and there's really no justification for that.

I can probably find some poor game's and series' for almost every "great" player who has ever played in the NBA.

[DMAVS41]

umm, he's pretty clearly talking about the 07 series and there's really no justification for that.

No justification for playing a poor series?

Got it. Might want to tell every single player of all time the same thing. Can you find me one player that hasn't played a poor series?

And don't bring up competition. That Warriors team was significantly better than their record.

But yea, you guys have a great point. Lets judge Duncan and Dirk on their two worst series ever....and really the only 2 bad series either of them has ever played.

Makes perfect sense.

[flipogb]

I was really hoping he'd hit another gear come playoff time.
he did, but it was just another rusty gear

[ThunderKat]

The guy is a legend and I give it up to him.

[BlackJoker23]

I can probably find some poor game's and series' for almost every "great" player who has ever played in the NBA.
OK. good for you.

[jlauber]

The guy is a legend and I give it up to him.

You can't post that nonsense here. This strictly a RIP Timmy thread.

[jlauber]

OK. good for you.

How about giving me a name of a great player who NEVER played poorly in the post-season, or had a poor post-season series.

[ukplayer4]

Wow. The level of hate and/or ignorance here is amazing. Duncan is widely regarded as being the best PF the game has ever seen. I personally dont care about any all time list. But if i had to make one duncan would be in it and he will in many lists of fans as well.

Duncan is not yet done. Yes, the years of dominance is over. It was over even back in 09. But he is still a top big man in the league. He just needs more help in the paint than usual. If the spurs front office can provide that, then we are back in business for a good 2 years more.




why didnt they provide it any of the last 4 years, all it takes is someone competent, i mean they won their last title with oberto and francisco elson at c, the one before nazr mohamend. what we have seen is thsat the spurs dont need a good centre along side duncan they just a centre. instead duncan has had to play full time centre for 4 years with no help and 6.7 pf's to assist him. spurs have been hamered on the glass in all their playoff exits. it absoloutly shocks me that they havent addressed this. they have found some great guards but their one effort to find frontcourt help has arrived to late and hasnt even been playing- splitter.

[DMAVS41]

You can't post that nonsense here. This strictly a RIP Timmy thread.

Yep. The days of Duncan playing sold interior defense and rebounding well are over.

No more days of Duncan going for 16/13/2.

Oh wait. That was Duncan's stat line in game 1 of this series.

By the way....last game:

13 points 11 boards 6 assists 5 blocks.....

Yep. He's garbage. He's ****ing 35 years old people......damn

[Fatal9]

Yea. Dirk has really flamed out. Just averaging 27/8/3 in the series and outplaying LA overall pretty badly now after 5 games.

Damn. The standards for Dirk are pretty high.
I'm talking about 2007 fool. You know when GS was defending/intimidating him with shooting guards and Dirk was looking real scared, and the entire Warrior team took turns humiliating him like a dirty slut. Like I said, most shameful playoff exit ever.

[DKLaker]

What dynasty do you speak of ...

One of their rings doesn't even count (1999 season)

And they never won back to back.

Far from a dynasty, my dude. To call them that would be an insult to real dynasties.

:applause: :applause: :cheers: :applause: :applause:

Thank you......LMAO at idiots calling the Spurs a dynasty,
Add to what you said, they didn't even MAKE IT to back to back finals

And anybody ever hear of a team winning 3 straight titles in the middle of another team's dynasty :no:

Give them credit for being a damn good team....but dynasty is bullsh!t.

Duncan is as done as an armadillo run over by a semi......lol.

[DMAVS41]

How about giving me a name of a great player who NEVER played poorly in the post-season, or had a poor post-season series.
:applause:

[BlackJoker23]

No justification for playing a poor series?

Got it. Might want to tell every single player of all time the same thing. Can you find me one player that hasn't played a poor series?

And don't bring up competition. That Warriors team was significantly better than their record.

But yea, you guys have a great point. Lets judge Duncan and Dirk on their two worst series ever....and really the only 2 bad series either of them has ever played.

Makes perfect sense.
:roll: @ this dude trying to come up with excuses for the mavs chokejob in 07. there's no justification for an mvp to shoot 38% against a shit defense like the warriors with stephen jackson on him. noringski in the elimination game put up 8 points 2-13 FG lmao. yeah, lets just act like that series never happened. atleast duncan is past his prime and not really the team's main guy.

the 07 series will forever be a shitstain on dirk's legacy whether you like it or not.

[DMAVS41]

I'm talking about 2007 fool. You know when GS was defending/intimidating him with shooting guards and Dirk was looking real scared, and the entire Warrior team took turns humiliating him like a dirty slut. Like I said, most shameful playoff exit ever.

Really?

Do you understand that those guys actually are the ones that give Dirk more trouble? Guys like Harrington/Biedrins/Jackson are the type of players that defend Dirk the best.

He abuses normal power forwards.

Most shameful exit ever? I can probably think of 5 worse just by stockton and malone themselves.

[DMAVS41]

:roll: @ this dude trying to come up with excuses for the mavs chokejob in 07. there's no justification for an mvp to shoot 38% against a shit defense like the warriors with stephen jackson on him. noringski in the elimination game put up 8 points 2-13 FG lmao. yeah, lets just act like that series never happened. atleast duncan is past his prime and not really the team's main guy.

the 07 series will forever be a shitstain on dirk's legacy whether you like it or not.

So again. One bad series trumps his entire career....right?

Dirk's elimination game averages:

28 points 12 boards 49% fg 39% 3

but lets ignore that. lets talk about the one elimination game he didn't play well.

LOL

[Samurai Swoosh]

Those include Hakeem's stats from when he was 36, 37 and 39. Up until the age Duncan is now, Hakeem's playoff stats were 27.3 ppg, 11.6 rpg, 3.4 apg, 3.4 bpg on 53+% shooting, Duncan averages 23/12/3.4 on 50%. Those aren't "identical" stats.

Stats aside, the thing that always separates Hakeem and Duncan is that Hakeem is CLEARLY a superior offensive player and a much better scorer. And Hakeem is the most clutch center I've seen in that pressure never fazes him, it's been like that with him since he entered the league when he just went out and took down the Lakers in '86. Total fearless attitude from the start. Dude always came to ball in the playoffs too, rarely see him play poorly from an individual standpoint.
:pimp:

And with that I'm outie.

[BlackJoker23]

So again. One bad series trumps his entire career....right?

Dirk's elimination game averages:

28 points 12 boards 49% fg 39% 3

but lets ignore that. lets talk about the one elimination game he didn't play well.

LOL
lol i dont give a **** what his averages are. its inexcusable for a league mvp to perform at such a low level and let his team get smacked around by an 8th seed. nobodys going to forget that series.

do you know why dirk is called a choker? its because of that series and that ft he missed against miami in game 3. theyre way too signficant to be overlooked. im sorry, thats just the way it is.

[juju151111]

So saying this since dec means I am dumb, but people saying it now is stating the obvious. You could see this Duncan is done from like 09. Spurs fans with the BS excuse about be getting everyone involve so he doesn't need to be has dominant.

[whinemore]

I hate the Spurs, but Tim Duncan is just old. Show him some respect. People need to rise above their pettiness and ignorance. Appreciate what Tim did on the court when he still could, his knowledge of the game and his character. Hes probably done, if not close to it. Regardless of how he plays now, he has earned my respect.

[DMAVS41]

lol i dont give a **** what his averages are. its inexcusable for a league mvp to perform at such a low level and let his team get smacked around by an 8th seed. nobodys going to forget that series.

do you know why dirk is called a choker? its because of that series and that ft he missed against miami in game 3. theyre way too signficant to be overlooked. im sorry, thats just the way it is.

just stay consistent with other players. if you do, you'll find that every single player of all time could be considered a choker by those standards.

i'm not asking anyone to overlook anything. i'm asking you to not judge a player by one series or a couple plays. i'm asking you to stay consistent.

nobody is claiming Dirk is the best player ever.

where do you rank stockton all time?

[juju151111]

Those include Hakeem's stats from when he was 36, 37 and 39. Up until the age Duncan is now, Hakeem's playoff stats were 27.3 ppg, 11.6 rpg, 3.4 apg, 3.4 bpg on 53+% shooting, Duncan averages 23/12/3.4 on 50%. Those aren't "identical" stats.

Stats aside, the thing that always separates Hakeem and Duncan is that Hakeem is CLEARLY a superior offensive player and a much better scorer. And Hakeem is the most clutch center I've seen in that pressure never fazes him, it's been like that with him since he entered the league when he just went out and took down the Lakers in '86. Total fearless attitude from the start. Dude always came to ball in the playoffs too, rarely see him play poorly from an individual standpoint.
I don't agree with fatal alot. But he is right on point here. Duncan always had the better team. Harem would put Duncan on skates.

[che guevara]

Those include Hakeem's stats from when he was 36, 37 and 39. Up until the age Duncan is now, Hakeem's playoff stats were 27.3 ppg, 11.6 rpg, 3.4 apg, 3.4 bpg on 53+% shooting, Duncan averages 23/12/3.4 on 50%. Those aren't "identical" stats.

Stats aside, the thing that always separates Hakeem and Duncan is that Hakeem is CLEARLY a superior offensive player and a much better scorer. And Hakeem is the most clutch center I've seen in that pressure never fazes him, it's been like that with him since he entered the league when he just went out and took down the Lakers in '86. Total fearless attitude from the start. Dude always came to ball in the playoffs too, rarely see him play poorly from an individual standpoint.
Where do you rank Duncan all time? And you don't consider Kareem on Hakeem's level as a clutch player?

[vinsane01]

why didnt they provide it any of the last 4 years, all it takes is someone competent, i mean they won their last title with oberto and francisco elson at c, the one before nazr mohamend. what we have seen is thsat the spurs dont need a good centre along side duncan they just a centre. instead duncan has had to play full time centre for 4 years with no help and 6.7 pf's to assist him. spurs have been hamered on the glass in all their playoff exits. it absoloutly shocks me that they havent addressed this. they have found some great guards but their one effort to find frontcourt help has arrived to late and hasnt even been playing- splitter.

Spurs fans has been saying the same thing for years. We thought that problem will be resolved with the signing of splitter. But we are obviously wrong there, he can improve to be decent big man. But i believe his emergence as a C will not be enough to compensate for the decline of duncan. Now if the spurs can find a way to get, say gortat or even a chuck hayes it would absolutely be great for team.

[Bird]

Uhhh ...

That's not a for definite

Jordan
Bird
Magic
Chamberlain
O'Neal
Olajawoun
Russell
Jabbar
Bryant
Robertson

If LeBron wins 2 rings he catapaults into the top ten, as well.

I'm embarassed by the fact that you have Kobe and Oscar Robertson ahead of Timmy D.

For all intents and purposes, he is one of the 7 or 8 greatest players of all time.

[ICanDunk]

They've got decent young guards in Hill and Neal and a potential good big man in Splitter, but they still have a lot of rebuilding to do. Hard to see them take too long though with their way of getting solid players with any draft pick, first or second round.

[jlauber]

I give up. What my eyes told me over the course of the last decade was all a lie.

[jlauber]

I'm embarassed by the fact that you have Kobe and Oscar Robertson ahead of Timmy D.

For all intents and purposes, he is one of the 7 or 8 greatest players of all time.

:cheers:

[Samurai Swoosh]

I'm embarassed by the fact that you have Kobe and Oscar Robertson ahead of Timmy D.
You shouldn't be ... Tim Duncan is not top ten all-time.

Many already have Kobe, in the actual numerical rankings at #7 or #8 so I don't know exactly what the hell you're smoking.

I just don't think he has what it takes to be considered top ten. Hell, I can't confidently seperate him from Garnett, let a lone thrusting him into the ten best player's of all-time.

And even if you don't agree with the "Big O" being in the top ten. Just considered that spot reserved for the second LeBron James wins a ring. Because the second he does, he is instantly top ten. With each ring he'll move further up the list, but always be directly under the absolute best of them.

Shame, cause if he won his rings in Cleveland, carrying his hometown franchise to the glory. I think you'd have the first legit all around player who could make a believable case against Jordan for the GOAT. But we all know that got throw out the window this summer.

[DMAVS41]

I give up. What my eyes told me over the course of the last decade was all a lie.

it was all BS. Duncan was garbage. Dirk/Stockton/Malone were all mentally weak and career chokers. Jerry West and Elgin Baylor just couldn't hack it.

Jordan sucked his first 6 years. Hakeem sucked his first 10. Shaq sucked his first 8....right? Title or bust...right? Wilt was dominated every time by Russell. Bird never played poorly in the Finals or Playoffs. David Robinson sucked before Duncan got there.....etc.

I give up.

[jlauber]

it was all BS. Duncan was garbage. Dirk/Stockton/Malone were all mentally weak and career chokers. Jerry West and Elgin Baylor just couldn't hack it.

Jordan sucked his first 6 years. Wilt was dominated every time by Russell. Bird never played poorly in the Finals or Playoffs. David Robinson sucked before Duncan got there.....etc.

I give up.

:cheers:

[Bird]

You shouldn't be ... Tim Duncan is not top ten all-time.

Many already have Kobe, in the actual numerical rankings at #7 or #8 so I don't know exactly what the hell you're smoking.

I just don't think he has what it takes to be considered top ten. Hell, I can't confidently seperate him from Garnett, let a lone thrusting him into the ten best player's of all-time.

And even if you don't agree with the "Big O" being in the top ten. Just considered that spot reserved for the second LeBron James wins a ring. Because the second he does, he is instantly top ten. With each ring he'll move further up the list, but always be directly under the absolute best of them.

Shame, cause if he won his rings in Cleveland, carrying his hometown franchise to the glory. I think you'd have the first legit all around player who could make a believable case against Jordan for the GOAT. But we all know that got throw out the window this summer.

If you really think LeBron's ONE ring you are touting (with Wade and Bosh on his team) will place him ABOVE Duncan's FOUR rings and THREE Finals MVP's WITHOUT EVER playing with a player as good as Wade or Bosh (Robinson was at the tale end of his career when they won in '99), then you must be crazy.

Not to mention 13 consecutive All NBA team selections (only 3 2nd team and 1 3rd team selection), 13 consecutive All Def team selections (only 5 2nd team selections), 2 regular season MVP's, All Star Game MVP, ROY and 13 AS game selections.

So if you really want to go into accolades, please let me know when LeBron has one ring, before he can even be considered in the discussion for greatest ever.

[jlauber]

If you really think LeBron's ONE ring you are touting (with Wade and Bosh on his team) will place him ABOVE Duncan's FOUR rings and THREE Finals MVP's WITHOUT EVER playing with a player as good as Wade or Bosh (Robinson was at the tale end of his career when they won in '99), then you must be crazy.

Not to mention 13 consecutive All NBA team selections (only 3 2nd team and 1 3rd team selection), 13 consecutive All Def team selections (only 5 2nd team selections), 2 regular season MVP's, All Star Game MVP, ROY and 13 AS game selections.

So if you really want to go into accolades, please let me know when LeBron has one ring, before he can even be considered in the discussion for greatest ever.

BUT, you are basing your opinion on Duncan's CAREER. However, did you watch the game TONIGHT? That was the REAL Duncan.

Meanwhile, let's give Lebron a ring BEFORE he even gets one, and elevate him over Duncan right now.

[Hondo]

[QUOTE=t-rex]Wow, hey just relax, it was only joke. Plus don't you know the 11th commandment

[jlauber]

And just like Duncan...I am done for the night.

Hopefully the sun will rise tomorrow morning...

[DMAVS41]

BUT, you are basing your opinion on Duncan's CAREER. However, did you watch the game TONIGHT? That was the REAL Duncan.

Meanwhile, let's give Lebron a ring BEFORE he even gets one, and elevate him over Duncan right now.

Am I the only that thinks Duncan actually played pretty damn well the first three games considering the task at hand.

[Bird]

BUT, you are basing your opinion on Duncan's CAREER. However, did you watch the game TONIGHT? That was the REAL Duncan.

Meanwhile, let's give Lebron a ring BEFORE he even gets one, and elevate him over Duncan right now.

Dammit, you're right.

I forgot we now evaluate players based on one game, during the playoffs, late in their career.

How dare I make an argument for Duncan.

Samurai, I apologize greatly for disagreeing with you. I shall bow out of your completely rationalized argument.

[Hondo]

Top 20 of all-time:

1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
2. Michael Jordan
3. Bill Russell
4. Magic Johnson
5. Wilt Chamberlain
6. Larry Bird
7. Shaquille O'Neal
8. Kobe Bryant
9. Tim Duncan
10. Hakeem Olajuwon
11. Jerry West
12. Moses Malone
13. Bob Pettit
14. Oscar Robertson
15. John Havlicek
16. George Mikan
17. Elgin Baylor
18. Isiah Thomas
19. Karl Malone
20. Kevin Garnett

[MayCeltics]

Spurs aren't done by any stretch of imagination. Tim Duncan can resurrect his career, if the Spurs can find a running mate for Timmy. A Louis Scola for instance would have been an ideal candidate before they traded him. Timmy currently has too big of a role at this stage of his career. Spurs desperately need to get him help upfront.

[Samurai Swoosh]

If you really think LeBron's ONE ring you are touting (with Wade and Bosh on his team) will place him ABOVE Duncan's FOUR rings and THREE Finals MVP's WITHOUT EVER playing with a player as good as Wade or Bosh (Robinson was at the tale end of his career when they won in '99), then you must be crazy.
Duncan has 1 legit ring ... are you kidding me.

And played with one of the most underrated, clutchest, and down right nastiest players I have ever seen play ... Manu Ginobili

And a perrenial all-star Tony Parker.

And countless quality position players, with tremendous amounts of depth.

Duncan isn't even clearly seperable from Kevin Garnett, as PLAYERS.

And you want to be him on the absolute ten best players of all-time list.

:oldlol:

You don't see me struggling to choose Kobe over McGrady, Carter, Allen, Iverson, etc

Spurs fanboys, I'm not saying Duncan isn't great ... I'm just saying he clearly isn't top ten all-time. It's my basketball opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

[Stuckey]

we ought to bash TP, what a scumbag

[SCdac]

we ought to bash TP, what a scumbag

If I didn't know any better, in the first 3 games and some of the 4th, he was playing like Rodney ****ing Stuckey :facepalm

[raptorfan_dr07]

You don't see me struggling to choose Kobe over McGrady, Carter, Allen, Iverson, etc


That's because you swing from his nuts like many others do around here. He NEVER separated himself from them. Just like you say about Tim Duncan when looking at KG and Barkley, the ONLY thing that separated Kobe from them was the teams he played on. Give those guys Prime Shaq and they win several titles as well. Let them force draft day trades to Los Angeles, to play for a team and owner committed 100% to winning, they have championship success as well. Put Kobe in the positions they were in their entire careers, and he's nothing but a slightly more glorified version of them. First round exits and no real accolades or titles.

Top 10 my @$$.

[Droid101]

If I didn't know any better, in the first 3 games and some of the 4th, he was playing like Rodney ****ing Stuckey :facepalm
That, AND he's a cheating scumbag!

[Harison]

How the mighty have fallen :(

[Samurai Swoosh]

That's because you swing from his nuts like many others do around here. He NEVER separated himself from them.
That's why they were all compaired to him, and thats why younger more relevant stars today are still compaired to him (Wade, James, etc) ... and why he's still a top five player in the game, while everyone else from that draft class beyond Nash has completely fallen off the map, and aren't even shells of what they used to be as players?


Uhhh, ok.

:oldlol:

[rodman91]

Arguably most successful player of post Jordan Era.
4 rings.
3 FMVP.
2 MVP.
Did it all with old robinson, parker, ginobili.

[Big#50]

Duncan has 1 legit ring ... are you kidding me.

And played with one of the most underrated, clutchest, and down right nastiest players I have ever seen play ... Manu Ginobili

And a perrenial all-star Tony Parker.

And countless quality position players, with tremendous amounts of depth.

Duncan isn't even clearly seperable from Kevin Garnett, as PLAYERS.

And you want to be him on the absolute ten best players of all-time list.

:oldlol:

You don't see me struggling to choose Kobe over McGrady, Carter, Allen, Iverson, etc

Spurs fanboys, I'm not saying Duncan isn't great ... I'm just saying he clearly isn't top ten all-time. It's my basketball opinion, and I'm sticking to it.
I'm with you. I have been saying it for years. Duncan only won rings in a shortened season. In 03 he had the most stacked team of all time. Not to mention Dirk got injured. In 05 it was Manus team. 07 the Suns got ripped off. Spurs and Duncan are a joke. PUT Bynum on all those Spurs rings and they win easily. Even KG would have won a ring with those squads.

[SCdac]

I'm with you. I have been saying it for years. Duncan only won rings in a shortened season. In 03 he had the most stacked team of all time. Not to mention Dirk got injured. In 05 it was Manus team. 07 the Suns got ripped off. Spurs and Duncan are a joke. PUT Bynum on all those Spurs rings and they win easily. Even KG would have won a ring with those squads.

Dude I'm sure even somebody like LaMarcus Aldridge could have done it. I mean, he DID outplay Duncan earlier in the season...

[Showtime]

One of their rings doesn't even count (1999 season)

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab207/dodgerslugger/Blackguyslaughing.gif


And they never won back to back.

Far from a dynasty, my dude. To call them that would be an insult to real dynasties.
So to you, a team winning 4 titles in 9 years with the same franchise player and coach isn't a dynasty? But a back-to-back winner, like the Detroit Pistons with Zeke, is a dynasty?

[Samurai Swoosh]

So to you, a team winning 4 titles in 9 years with the same franchise player and coach isn't a dynasty? But a back-to-back winner, like the Detroit Pistons with Zeke, is a dynasty?
Consistently good team, sure. Piston's aren't a dynasty, either. But if you can't even get to the Finals in back to back seasons, you def. can't be in the running for a "dynasty" label.

That isn't a term you just throw around loosely.

There haven't been many dynasties in the NBA, and the 2000 era Spurs certainly aren't on that list.

[rodman91]

Duncan has 1 legit ring ... are you kidding me.

And played with one of the most underrated, clutchest, and down right nastiest players I have ever seen play ... Manu Ginobili

And a perrenial all-star Tony Parker.

And countless quality position players, with tremendous amounts of depth.

Duncan isn't even clearly seperable from Kevin Garnett, as PLAYERS.

And you want to be him on the absolute ten best players of all-time list.

:oldlol:

You don't see me struggling to choose Kobe over McGrady, Carter, Allen, Iverson, etc

Spurs fanboys, I'm not saying Duncan isn't great ... I'm just saying he clearly isn't top ten all-time. It's my basketball opinion, and I'm sticking to it.


wait a minute..
I don't remember him playing next to Prime Shaq as sidekick.
I don't remember him playing next to Shaq,Karl Malone,Payton and still loosing 4-1 to Pistons.
Actually I don't remember him loosing in any finals.
Actually I don't remember any season of him missing playoffs.

:lol

[Big#50]

Dude I'm sure even somebody like LaMarcus Aldridge could have done it. I mean, he DID outplay Duncan earlier in the season...
Tim was always a product of the system.

[Big#50]

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab207/dodgerslugger/Blackguyslaughing.gif


So to you, a team winning 4 titles in 9 years with the same franchise player and coach isn't a dynasty? But a back-to-back winner, like the Detroit Pistons with Zeke, is a dynasty?
Who the **** do you think you are making sense on ISH? Please go.

[10x91= 5 Rings]

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab207/dodgerslugger/Blackguyslaughing.gif


So to you, a team winning 4 titles in 9 years with the same franchise player and coach isn't a dynasty? But a back-to-back winner, like the Detroit Pistons with Zeke, is a dynasty?

The Bad Boys defeated the Celtics,Lakers and Bulls to earn their titles.The won it Back 2 Back in the toughest era. The Spurs couldn`t do it.That`s why their back 2 backs just means more and is rightfully called a dynasty..the spurs were lucky that the Bulls got dismantled.

[UTRavens]

SMH at the smear campaign in this thread. Seriously, it's one of the biggest disgraces I've ever seen. Pay the man some respect and don't try to take away the things he's rightfully earned.

By the way, about this dynasty thing, if the Spurs won in 2004 or 2006 instead of 2005 or 2007 and get a repeat, does that REALLY change anything? Four rings is four rings, period. You don't earn a bonus ring if two of them came in order. This whole "couldn't defend" BS is ridiculous and the "psychological" argument for it having any significance whatsoever is also total BS.

[rodman91]

http://i56.tinypic.com/25oz30z.jpg

2MVP + 3FMVP > MVP + 2FMVP.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_SswvbuGR3Zo/TOgWwp2BGNI/AAAAAAAAACs/JSHwuTko8pU/s1600/Si+Vintage+5.31.1999.jpg

[Phong]

Actually I don't remember him loosing in any finals.
Actually I don't remember any season of him missing playoffs.

:lolInstead of losing in the finals he has a habit of losing much earlier against inferior teams.

2000 playoffs: the Spurs have HCA and lose to the Suns 1-3 (First Round)
2001 playoffs: the Spurs have HCA and lose to the Lakers 0-4 (WCF)
2004 playoffs: the Spurs have HCA and lose to the Lakers 2-4 (2nd Round)
2006 playoffs: the Spurs have HCA and lose to the Mavericks 3-4 (2nd Round)
2009 playoffs: the Spurs have HCA and lose to the Mavericks 1-4 (First Round)
2011 playoffs: the Spurs have HCA and are trailing the Grizzlies 1-3 (First Round)

2002 playoffs: the Spurs lose to the Lakers (HCA) 1-4 (2nd Round)
2008 playoffs: the Spurs lose to the Lakers (HCA) 1-4 (WCF)
2010 playoffs: the Spurs lose to the Suns (HCA) 0-4 (2nd Round)

[SCdac]

Instead of losing in the finals he has a habit of losing much earlier against inferior teams.

2000 playoffs: the Spurs have HCA and lose to the Suns 1-3 (First Round)
2001 playoffs: the Spurs have HCA and lose to the Lakers 0-4 (WCF)
2004 playoffs: the Spurs have HCA and lose to the Lakers 2-4 (2nd Round)
2006 playoffs: the Spurs have HCA and lose to the Mavericks 3-4 (2nd Round)
2009 playoffs: the Spurs have HCA and lose to the Mavericks 1-4 (First Round)
2011 playoffs: the Spurs have HCA and are trailing the Grizzlies 1-3 (First Round)

2002 playoffs: the Spurs lose to the Lakers (HCA) 1-4 (2nd Round)
2008 playoffs: the Spurs lose to the Lakers (HCA) 1-4 (WCF)
2010 playoffs: the Spurs lose to the Suns (HCA) 0-4 (2nd Round)

Oh come on, did you watch Tim Duncan against the Suns in 2000???

[Phong]

Oh come on, did you watch Tim Duncan against the Suns in 2000???He didn't play in 2000 but it doesnt change the fact that his team has greatly underperformed in the playoffs.

Dynasty my a$$ :rolleyes:

[Lebron23]

The end of an Era.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Shaq in 2007 was even worse, and Miami was swept. But yeah, Pat Riley tends to get swept every now and then in playoff series so I aint that surprised when this happened, even 1980s Lakers were swept twice in finals under his coaching.

[Lebron23]

He didn't play in 2000 but it doesnt change the fact that his team has greatly underperformed in the playoffs.

Dynasty my a$$ :rolleyes:

Duncan still has a better career than Kobe Bryant. He's also the superior Finals Performer.

[Timmy D for MVP]

I came in here expecting a good discussion on Tim's decline and whether it's an effect of his body or maybe his mentality, or team mentality or a combination or...?

And then I flip through the pages and was like: :wtf: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Turned into quite a troll thread.

That said he's got to hit that jumper. For a couple years now his runners have been short, and his losing his ability to muscle out these young athletic guys. Manu is the go to guy but Duncan is still the focal point. If he starts drawing attention it'll be bad for whoever they play.

This has been a weird series for me to watch. I can see the issues, but not sure how to fix it. People always say: "Well they're old." but they won 60 games... obviously something was working. Memphis just matches up well. At this point I don't even think Pop will be able too make an adjustment. They'll just have to dig deep. Should be interesting.

[macpierce]

tim has been done for a while honestly, since 08 IMO

[Showtime]

Consistently good team, sure. Piston's aren't a dynasty, either. But if you can't even get to the Finals in back to back seasons, you def. can't be in the running for a "dynasty" label.

That isn't a term you just throw around loosely.

There haven't been many dynasties in the NBA, and the 2000 era Spurs certainly aren't on that list.
My point is, you have no criteria, or else your criteria is shit.

[rmt]

Duncan's career speaks for itself.

He shouldn't, at age 35, be the only decent big on the team - 6'7 Blair, (throw the ball to whoever is being guarded by) Matt Bonner, an even more ancient Dice, and rookie Splitter. Not counting game 4, he has played well enough for the Spurs to win.

I never dreamed when Duncan was drafted that he would bring 4 rings to SA. He has far surpassed anything I hoped for with a magnificent career and has done so with grace.

The blame for this series rests mostly on Parker and Pop - failing to integrate Splitter, not letting Manu play when he asked to in the first game, Blair/Bonner fronting and throwing the defense off (instead of playing Splitter straight up), panicking and throwing/starting Splitter in the 2nd half when he's played all of 14 mins. total this season with TD, small ball with RJ at the 4. Parker has played like ****.

The most heart-wrenching moment as a fan was Manu, the Spurs' heart and soul, standing there watching Battier hit that 3 and not even trying to defend it.

Some posters have agendas, are immature and try to knock down great players to build up others. FWIW, Dirk is as clutch as hell and aren't you lucky that Kobe had Shaq/Gasol instead of a second option like Jason Terry.

[Harison]

Why is that? Hakeem and Duncan playoff stats are very identical (Duncan has edge in rebounds and Hakeem has edge in PPG/Blks). Duncan has been far better clutch performer than Hakeem was and the 4 titles over 2, so i would go with Duncan.
What Playoffs stats are identical? :wtf: Are you comparing career averages of player who was in NBA till 39, and Duncan who is already done at 35? if Duncan plays till 39, his career averages will be much, much lower than Dreams. Hakeem had series 37.5/16.8/1.8, what Duncan had?

Bottom line, Hakeem was flat out more dominant player on both sides on the floor compared to Duncan. He was one of the most clutchiest bigs ever, Duncan was clutch too, just not as much.

Titles comparison is worthless without context, Dream throughout majority of his career had much stronger competition while having worse team than Duncan. Drop Duncan to those Rockets in the Golden age and he would probably have zero rings, while Hakeem in current weak era with Spurs would have more than 4 rings.

[Hondo]

Titles comparison is worthless without context, Dream throughout majority of his career had much stronger competition while having worse team than Duncan. Drop Duncan to those Rockets in the Golden age and he would probably have zero rings, while Hakeem in current weak era with Spurs would have more than 4 rings.

Excellent point.

[the_wise_one]

Why does the 1999 ring not count?

***** just blindly follows what that dickhead PJax said.

PJax=retard. His fans = bigger retards.

[Big#50]

What Playoffs stats are identical? :wtf: Are you comparing career averages of player who was in NBA till 39, and Duncan who is already done at 35? if Duncan plays till 39, his career averages will be much, much lower than Dreams. Hakeem had series 37.5/16.8/1.8, what Duncan had?

Bottom line, Hakeem was flat out more dominant player on both sides on the floor compared to Duncan. He was one of the most clutchiest bigs ever, Duncan was clutch too, just not as much.

Titles comparison is worthless without context, Dream throughout majority of his career had much stronger competition while having worse team than Duncan. Drop Duncan to those Rockets in the Golden age and he would probably have zero rings, while Hakeem in current weak era with Spurs would have more than 4 rings.
LoL Hakeem more clutch.

[TimmyDuncan]

For all the asterik talk for 1999.

Next year will be another lockout.
And it will be really funny to see the exact same posters that says 1999 doesn't count says 2012 is counting as any other one if it's their team the winner

The only question is : Will it be lakers, miami or bulls fan that will change completely their mind:oldlol:

[King Lebron LBJ]

I'm not sure why anybody thought he could turn it on in the playoffs.

[phoenix_bladen]

What Playoffs stats are identical? :wtf: Are you comparing career averages of player who was in NBA till 39, and Duncan who is already done at 35? if Duncan plays till 39, his career averages will be much, much lower than Dreams. Hakeem had series 37.5/16.8/1.8, what Duncan had?

Bottom line, Hakeem was flat out more dominant player on both sides on the floor compared to Duncan. He was one of the most clutchiest bigs ever, Duncan was clutch too, just not as much.

Titles comparison is worthless without context, Dream throughout majority of his career had much stronger competition while having worse team than Duncan. Drop Duncan to those Rockets in the Golden age and he would probably have zero rings, while Hakeem in current weak era with Spurs would have more than 4 rings.

+1

that plus the fact that hakeen never pussied out his whole career playing PF when he was suppose to play C

duncan never even guards the best bigs

[Odinn]

+1

that plus the fact that hakeen never pussied out his whole career playing PF when he was suppose to play C

duncan never even guards the best bigs
:wtf: :wtf:

:facepalm :facepalm

[Blue&Orange]

game 1 - 16\13\2
game 2 - 16\10\3
game 3 - 13\11\5


Lets forget the solid numbers in the first 3 games for a 35 old, and make a retarded thread about how Duncan looks washed up because of one bad game, when everyone on his team played bad also.

[caliman]

By the way, about this dynasty thing, if the Spurs won in 2004 or 2006 instead of 2005 or 2007 and get a repeat, does that REALLY change anything? Four rings is four rings, period. You don't earn a bonus ring if two of them came in order. This whole "couldn't defend" BS is ridiculous and the "psychological" argument for it having any significance whatsoever is also total BS.



Yes it does mean something, it means they were able to successfully defend their title. That is something that every champion since the 88 Lakers was able to do at least once, except for the 2004 Pistons and 2006 Heat. Hell, San Antonio never even made it to back to back Finals. How is that any sort of dynasty?

Give them credit for being the most consistent team since MJ retired, but that doesn't make them a dynasty. The Lakers came and won 3 titles in a row in the middle of the Spurs "dynasty".

[SayTownRy]

laker fan wants an asterisk on the 99 championship

duncan's whole career is being called into question because of last night's game

duncan has one legit ring (i think that's a new one actually):oldlol:

lebron gets a ring on his super conglomerate fantasy team and immediately gets propelled into the top 10 over everything duncan has achieved

something about oscar robertson

the subjectivity of the word dynasty caters toward the spurs not being one

07 suns were mistreated despite breaking rules clearly written in black and white

same ol ish/shit :sleeping

[creepingdeath]

Duncan has 1 legit ring ... are you kidding me.

And played with one of the most underrated, clutchest, and down right nastiest players I have ever seen play ... Manu Ginobili

And a perrenial all-star Tony Parker.

And countless quality position players, with tremendous amounts of depth.

Duncan isn't even clearly seperable from Kevin Garnett, as PLAYERS.

And you want to be him on the absolute ten best players of all-time list.

:oldlol:

You don't see me struggling to choose Kobe over McGrady, Carter, Allen, Iverson, etc

Spurs fanboys, I'm not saying Duncan isn't great ... I'm just saying he clearly isn't top ten all-time. It's my basketball opinion, and I'm sticking to it.
You make LA fans look awful.

[swoopshoops]

I have a feeling Duncan is gunna be one of those guys whose greatness younger generations will never fully appreciate. "The Big Fundamental" is definitely finished, I mean to get dominated in the playoffs by a Gasol who isn't even Pao says it all, but he was arguably the player of the decade. I just know he won't get the love of guys like Kobe, Shaq, LeBron or even guys like Nash or AI.

[Pinkhearts]

Duncan is the greatest player in his position? I dunno, I think there are alot of centers better than him.

Oh and Hakeem is clearly better than Duncan. One thing you guys keep forgetting is that Duncan played in a weak era. No Jordan, no stacked Bulls, no nothing. And no competition in the big man department other than Shaq who took half the rings in his era. It's just easy for him to be dominant having no centers going up against you as compared to Hakeem who had to deal with guys like Drob, Ewing, Mourning, Shaq...etc.

[BarberSchool]

Has an all time great ever flamed out in the playoffs this shamefully?
Son is done.
God bless him in his future life with the game. He'll grow into a great big man coach, he's got the perfect disposition to teach young sponge high ceiling big men like Hibbert.

[SayTownRy]

also since when is:

13/10/2.5/2.8 on 53% shooting in 34 mpg washed up or "definitely finished"?

that's 2 more rebounds per game than randolph and .7 less than gasol.

that's almost a full block more per game than both of them put together.

and those guys have the luxury of playing with each other.

i realize i'm comparing an all time great to zach randolph and marc gasol, but let's face it, these guys are an elite frontcourt in this league and tim's having to do it by himself out there unfortunately.

when's the last time someone averaged a double double and just under 3 blocks per game and was considered washed up or finished?

[Dbrog]

The f@ck are these 13 year olds talking about? Duncan was a product of the Spurs system? He WAS the system :banghead:
Duncan not top 10 all time and wimped out by playing PF :facepalm :lol :hammerhead:
Couldn't get back to the finals? Truly shows these kids are 13. Lakers vs Spurs WAS the finals every year. Who was gonna beat them? Kidd's nets? Iverson's 76ers? Pierces Celtics? Reggies Pacers? :rolleyes: :confusedshrug: :no:
Duncan had stacked as $hit teams? :roll: :roll: :roll:

ISH has officially hit a new low.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

It's over for the Spurs. Let's say even if they do come back and beat the Griz, they wouldn't be able to take down the young OKC Thunder team.

[Bigsmoke]

also since when is:

13/10/2.5/2.8 on 53% shooting in 34 mpg washed up or "definitely finished"?

that's 2 more rebounds per game than randolph and .7 less than gasol.

that's almost a full block more per game than both of them put together.

and those guys have the luxury of playing with each other.

i realize i'm comparing an all time great to zach randolph and marc gasol, but let's face it, these guys are an elite frontcourt in this league and tim's having to do it by himself out there unfortunately.

when's the last time someone averaged a double double and just under 3 blocks per game and was considered washed up or finished?

those numbers are helping them win. thats for sure

[rmt]

Duncan is the greatest player in his position? I dunno, I think there are alot of centers better than him.

Oh and Hakeem is clearly better than Duncan. One thing you guys keep forgetting is that Duncan played in a weak era. No Jordan, no stacked Bulls, no nothing. And no competition in the big man department other than Shaq who took half the rings in his era. It's just easy for him to be dominant having no centers going up against you as compared to Hakeem who had to deal with guys like Drob, Ewing, Mourning, Shaq...etc.

Some posters want it both ways. Shaq was the MDE, but didn't Duncan win his 4 rings during that era which included both Shaq and Kobe's peaks/primes. It's the same "weak" era for Shaq, Duncan and Kobe and it should actually be a positive for TD - winning in an era where 2 of the top 10 GOAT played together - sweeping them once (99) and totally out-playing Shaq in their final game of 03.

Anyway, this thread is an over-reaction. True, TD didn't play well last night (none of his team mates did either), but he had a relatively good series up until then for a 35 year old.

OT: Parker looks like the player who was benched in 4th quarters for Speedy Claxton in 03. If he just played his normal game, this series would be at 3-1. Unfortunately, there's no 03 Duncan around to make up for his poor play.

[SayTownRy]

those numbers are helping them win. thats for sure

that's not what we're talking about here. we're talking about a guy putting up a double double and almost 3 bpg against a couple of energized bruisers with no help in the paint and being called totally finished.

duncan's 35. pretty hard to expect the guy to carry the team through a tough playoff matchup against a couple of big bodies in gasol and randolph on his own anymore.

i don't see how anyone can expect that at this point in his career. i don't think it's accurate to say he's completely washed up.

[Kurosawa0]

Duncan's the greatest power forward ever, but he's not a cornerstone anymore. He needs to slide into the David Robinson role, but he doesn't have a young Tim Duncan next to him for it to work.

[ihatetimthomas]

Duncan had a marvelous run, and the series is not over yet, so dont count them out. I never will count the Spurs out til the final tick of the clock.

Tim is 35, has carried a heavy load his entire career, and has played a lot of playoff games as well. Everyone breaks down sooner or later. Pop has kept him playing this long by limiting his minutes.

They don't make em like Tim anymore. Consummate professional, class act and humble personality. Truly one of the greatest playoff performers I have ever seen. He impacted the game so much. The offense was ran through him, and the defense was anchored by him. Great teammate, player.

To notch footwork and a very cerebral player. Great passer and we will never forget the classic bankshot he hit was such consistency. He's got a few years left, but I am glad to have seen him his entire career.

[Droid101]

that's not what we're talking about here. we're talking about a guy putting up a double double and almost 3 bpg against a couple of energized bruisers with no help in the paint and being called totally finished.
Hm, not two weeks ago San Antonio fans were crowing about how good, hard nosed, etc, their McDyess/Blair frontcourt was.

What a difference getting exposed makes, I guess.

[LA_Showtime]

Duncan is hardly washed up. He's playing fine. It's not his fault his team lacks an identity at this point in the season. You can't blame Duncan for not playing Splitter or relegating Blair to the bench after playing (and starting) most of the season. You can't fault Duncan for Tony Parker's disappearing act. He's getting older, yeah... so what? The reason the Spurs are down in this series is because Memphis is playing ridiculously well and the Spurs soft defense is being exposed.

[kizut1659]

He is not getting enough shots - 7 shots last game is ridiculous.

[nosfan773]

Duncan had a marvelous run, and the series is not over yet, so dont count them out. I never will count the Spurs out til the final tick of the clock.

Tim is 35, has carried a heavy load his entire career, and has played a lot of playoff games as well. Everyone breaks down sooner or later. Pop has kept him playing this long by limiting his minutes.

They don't make em like Tim anymore. Consummate professional, class act and humble personality. Truly one of the greatest playoff performers I have ever seen. He impacted the game so much. The offense was ran through him, and the defense was anchored by him. Great teammate, player.

To notch footwork and a very cerebral player. Great passer and we will never forget the classic bankshot he hit was such consistency. He's got a few years left, but I am glad to have seen him his entire career.

Well put :applause: ... Now quit making me like Laker fans :D

[hawkfan]

Pop has done a very bad job with getting enough bigs, which makes no sense at all, since he had the Robinson-Duncan-Perdue era, then he had bigs like Mohammed help out Duncan.

Terrible job with the roster.

He should have followed the Celtics-Hawks path - collect as many bigs as possible.

[G-train]

Pop has done a very bad job with getting enough bigs, which makes no sense at all, since he had the Robinson-Duncan-Perdue era, then he had bigs like Mohammed help out Duncan.

Terrible job with the roster.

He should have followed the Celtics-Hawks path - collect as many bigs as possible.

The Triplet towers!


:facepalm

[stephanieg]

And, I feel pretty confident in saying that he will be a first-ballot HOFer...

Actually, no. There's a clause that says you can't make the HoF if you lose to the Grizzlies in the playoffs.