From 2011: Dwight Howard is better than Hakeem Olajuwon

[elementally morale]

First thing first, he is stronger. He is a better defender. He is a bit less of a scorer but he is more effective. Look at their FG%. Dwight is also funnier and a better team player IMHO. A much better locker room presence. Dunking? It's a no contest. Blocking shots? This is misleading. Hakeem's stats are inflated due to the era he played in. Half of today's big man could average 3 bpg with all those unathletic players back then. D12 would have averaged at least 4 bpg back then.

And Howard doesn't have the presence of a Robert Horry, a Sam Cassell, a Clyde drexler and a Charles Barkley. Sorry. Hakeem was great in his own right and he is a top 15 player of all time, but he is not a better player than Dwight. If both of them are in their primes, I can see Howard winning the battle between the two.

[thatoneblackguy]

Dwight Howard is playing in a weak era of Centers.

[elementally morale]

Dwight Howard is playing in a weak era of Centers.

Sorry but new era > old era.

[Scoooter]

It seems like a joke, but the tone of the post is serious and decidedly un-jovial.

I await further developments.

[Bigsmoke]

nah. Dwight is better at turning the ball over though.

6.5 turnovers vs a team the the Hawks? ****ING AWESOME!

[elementally morale]

nah. Dwight is better at turning the ball over though.

6.5 turnovers vs a team the the Hawks? ****ING AWESOME!

Hakeem played with Sampson, Cassell and Horry. Howard plays with Turkey Glue and Gil. C'mon.

[elementally morale]

It seems like a joke, but the tone of the post is serious and decidedly un-jovial.

I await further developments.

I'll address this later.

[thatoneblackguy]

Sorry but new era > old era.
Explain. I'll take a prime Shaq/Ewing/Robinson/Mutumbo over .... Bynum? Bogut? Perkins?

[az00m]

Rofl howard better defensively then hakeem? What a ****ing joke.

[elementally morale]

Rofl howard better defensively then hakeem? What a ****ing joke.

Watch tape. Open your eyes. Don't believe everything that was fed to you.

[az00m]

What do I have to look at exactly? Hakeem blew the defense rating out of the water in his era. Offense was much better back in the 90's and hakeems defense rating is still greater than howards.

[ICanDunk]

Explain. I'll take a prime Shaq/Ewing/Robinson/Mutumbo over .... Bynum? Bogut? Perkins?
He was born in 2001 give him a break.

[kentatm]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Hell to the no.

[elementally morale]

Explain. I'll take a prime Shaq/Ewing/Robinson/Mutumbo over .... Bynum? Bogut? Perkins?

Bynum IF healthy in the 80's... he would have ruled the league. Especially playing alongside a Bird or a Magic Johnson. Do you really think Parish or old fart Kareem were any better? LOL

Shaq I give you. He is slightly better than Howard. At his peak. Careerwise, no. Accolades != career.

[elementally morale]

What do I have to look at exactly? Hakeem blew the defense rating out of the water in his era. Offense was much better back in the 90's and hakeems defense rating is still greater than howards.

OK. Believe what you want. :sleeping

[thatoneblackguy]

Bynum IF healthy in the 80's... he would have ruled the league. Especially playing alongside a Bird or a Magic Johnson. Do you really think Parish or old fart Kareem were any better? LOL

Shaq I give you. He is slightly better than Howard. At his peak. Careerwise, no. Accolades != career.
Thank you for outing yourself as a troll. That's all I needed.

[Kurosawa0]

Hakeem would murder Dwight.

[elementally morale]

Hakeem would murder Dwight.

So you claim.

[elementally morale]

Thank you for outing yourself as a troll. That's all I needed.

Well, you needed a lot. I'm not impressed. :violin:

[ballup]

I did not know that Ewing and Robinson were such bad centers:confusedshrug:

[Kurosawa0]

So you claim.

So would anyone who watched Hakeem play.

[Bigsmoke]

thats why i think Dwight is overrated.

We should all know that Ewing and Mourning were never the players that Lebron, Kobe, and Wade are right now so why Dwight is?

[elementally morale]

http://tusb.stanford.edu/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Palpatine_ROTJ.jpg

They are biting. Gooood.

[elementally morale]

I did not know that Ewing and Robinson were such bad centers:confusedshrug:

You weren't even alive in 1990, GTFO.

[thatoneblackguy]

http://tusb.stanford.edu/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Palpatine_ROTJ.jpg

They are biting. Gooood.
This wasn't even a good troll. You have much to learn young padawan.

[elementally morale]

thats why i think Dwight is overrated.

We should all know that Ewing and Mourning were never the players that Lebron, Kobe, and Wade are right now so why Dwight is?

LeBron >= Magic
Dwight easily > Hakeem

Dwight would just swat the dream shake to the 4th row.

[elementally morale]

This wasn't even a good troll. You have much to learn young padawan.

Well, most people took it seriously... don't you think? It couldn't have been that bad then.

If people can say LeBron is better than Magic Johnson was, then I can say with a straight face Dwight Howard is better than Hakeem Olajuwon was. The comparison is in the same ballpark as comparing LeBron and Magic.

What's next?

Claiming Tyson Chandler is a better rebounder than Dennis Rodman?

[Durantula35]

When the Rockets won that first title their second leading scorer was Otis Thorpe. Cassell was a rookie averaging 6.7 ppg, Horry was a sophomore and averaged 9.9 ppg. That was one of the worst supporting casts of all time to win an NBA championship.

Howard is young but hasn't shown signs of developing Olajuwon's skills and feel for the game on offense. And he's playing in an era of weak centers. Look at the top 10 centers in the league today if you need a chuckle.

[Bigsmoke]

LeBron >= Magic
Dwight easily > Hakeem
Dwight would just swat the dream shake to the 4th row.

no he's not. the only 2 things Dwight is better than Hakeem at is in vertical hopping and bench pressing.

[thatoneblackguy]

Well, most people took it seriously... don't you think? It couldn't have been that bad then.

If people can say LeBron is better than Magic Johnson was, then I can say with a straight face Dwight Howard is better than Hakeem Olajuwon was. The comparison is in the same ballpark as comparing LeBron with Magic.

What's next?

Claiming Tyson Chandler is a better rebounder than Dennis Rodman?
I see your point and it makes sense.

[elementally morale]

no he's not. the only thing Dwight is better than Hakeem at is in vertical hopping.

:roll:

Dwight is a more efficient scorer. FG% anyone? TS%? PER? eFG%?
Dwight is a better rebounder.
Just as good a shotblocker.
A bit worse at passing but he makes up for it with his superior defense.

All in all, give me Dwight.

[ICanDunk]

Well, most people took it seriously... don't you think? It couldn't have been that bad then.

If people can say LeBron is better than Magic Johnson was, then I can say with a straight face Dwight Howard is better than Hakeem Olajuwon was. The comparison is in the same ballpark as comparing LeBron and Magic.

What's next?

Claiming Tyson Chandler is a better rebounder than Dennis Rodman?
:roll: :roll: :roll:

Reposted in Lebron vs Magic thread

[Bigsmoke]

:roll:

Dwight is a more efficient scorer. FG% anyone? TS%? PER? eFG%?
Dwight is a better rebounder.
Just as good a shotblocker.
A bit worse at passing but he makes up for it with his superior defense.

All in all, give me Dwight.

Hakeem is the best shot blocker of all times. dont give me that equal crap when their not.

Hakeem had 14 RPG seasons and dont forget that Dwight never played next to a solid rebounder. Hakeem played along side Ralph Sampson, Thorpe, Barkley, ect.

dude.. hakeem was better. lets be for real.

[alenleomessi]

Well, most people took it seriously... don't you think? It couldn't have been that bad then.

If people can say LeBron is better than Magic Johnson was, then I can say with a straight face Dwight Howard is better than Hakeem Olajuwon was. The comparison is in the same ballpark as comparing LeBron and Magic.

What's next?

Claiming Tyson Chandler is a better rebounder than Dennis Rodman?
Lebron is closer to magic than dwight to hakeem and lebron will probably end up the best sf ever... im not even sure dwight will be top 5 center ...

[elementally morale]

Howard is young but hasn't shown signs of developing Olajuwon's skills and feel for the game on offense. And he's playing in an era of weak centers. Look at the top 10 centers in the league today if you need a chuckle.

My oh my. Howard has come a long way. A very long way. In his 1st season, Kobe raped him with that dunk. Do you think Mr. Rapist would dare trying that sh!t again? I don't think so.

And sure, Dwight doesn't score tha much, but it's just because he doesn't get the ball. It's all on Stan van Gundy's stupid system. Jameer who?

And LOL at you thinking all centers were great back then. Luc Longley? Bill Cartwright? Elden Campbell? Dino Radja? :facepalm @ what D12 would have done to them.

[ballup]

You weren't even alive in 1990, GTFO.
On the contrary, I actually was :oldlol:

[tontoz]

Give me a break. Howard isn't even close to Hakeem. His post skills are a light year behind Hakeem's and he can't shoot foul shots for crap.

[elementally morale]

Hakeem is the best shot blocker of all times. dont give me that equal crap when their not.

It 'they are' not 'their'. You lose a point.



Hakeem had 14 RPG seasons

Faster pace. D12 has 14 rebound seasons in a much slower league. And they shoot a lot more 3s these days which = long rebounds. So Dwight is just as good, but slightly better IMHO.




dude.. hakeem was better. lets be for real.

In your imagination.

[ICanDunk]

Hakeem is the best shot blocker of all times. dont give me that equal crap when their not.

Hakeem had 14 RPG seasons and dont forget that Dwight never played next to a solid rebounder. Hakeem played along side Ralph Sampson, Thorpe, Barkley, ect.

dude.. hakeem was better. lets be for real.
Bu-but new era > old era (if you're retarded)

[BarberSchool]

First thing first, he is stronger. He is a better defender. He is a bit less of a scorer but he is more effective. Look at their FG%. Dwight is also funnier and a better team player IMHO. A much better locker room presence. Dunking? It's a no contest. Blocking shots? This is misleading. Hakeem's stats are inflated due to the era he played in. Half of today's big man could average 3 bpg with all those unathletic players back then. D12 would have averaged at least 4 bpg back then.

And Howard doesn't have the presence of a Robert Horry, a Sam Cassell, a Clyde drexler and a Charles Barkley. Sorry. Hakeem was great in his own right and he is a top 15 player of all time, but he is not a better player than Dwight. If both of them are in their primes, I can see Howard winning the battle between the two.You are full on delusional. Dwight will never ever be as great as Olajuwon. Olajuwon had a vastly superior mind, and drastically better hand-eye coordination, and fluidity in his athleticism. Dwight's athleticism is explosive, but robotic, not balanced and fluid in every direction.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

:roll:

Dwight is a more efficient scorer. FG% anyone? TS%? PER? eFG%?
Dwight is a better rebounder.
Just as good a shotblocker.
A bit worse at passing but he makes up for it with his superior defense.

All in all, give me Dwight.

On considerably less volume? Rebounding I'll give you, but Shot blocking and contesting shots/help defense? Not even close.

You can't troll; it's not in you bud.

[elementally morale]

Give me a break. Howard isn't even close to Hakeem. His post skills are a light year behind Hakeem's and he can't shoot foul shots for crap.

Basketball has more to it than post skills. Who has better post moves? Kobe Bryant or Kevin McHale? And who is the better player?

Foul shots... don't get me started. Friggin' Jose Calderon can make his free throws... big deal.

[elementally morale]

Lebron is closer to magic than dwight to hakeem and lebron will probably end up the best sf ever... im not even sure dwight will be top 5 center ...

:facepalm

[elementally morale]

You can't troll; it's not in you bud.

This thread was not intended to be trolling. All I wanted is a few guys believing I was serious in order to be able to show how ridiculous it is to claim LeBron being better than Magic Johnson.

Unreal.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

It'they are' not 'their'. You lose a point.

It's *

You lose 2 points for trying to sound smart.

[elementally morale]

It's *

You lose 2 points for trying to sound smart.

But but... mine was a typo. :(

[thatoneblackguy]

I'm smoking some chemdawg right now.

[elementally morale]

I'm smoking some chemdawg right now.

This thread has one star only. I don't get it. One star just doesn't cut it.

[ICanDunk]

This thread has one star only. I don't get it. One star just doesn't cut it.
Just helped you out a bit lol.

[elementally morale]

Just helped you out a bit lol.

Thanks. But still only two stars. That's lame. And to think the most I can possibly get is three more stars is painful in itself to think about. :rant

[lpublic_enemyl]

lol dwight is awesome... i see what ur doing:D

[elementally morale]

lol dwight is awesome... i see what ur doing:D

Being Superman beats the sh!t out of a dream. BTW, that dream is just a has been.

[Round Mound]

Pathetic thred

Hakeem was a Better Total Player on Both Ends than Dwight

Hakeem was close to as good Rebounder then the rest he was better at

- better scorer
- the goat agil post game by big man ever
- superior skillset
- more of a missmatch for centers or forwards
- best floor defensive stealing center of all time
- among the goat shot blockers
- better help defender-
- better team defender
- better total paint defender
- better total all around defender
- better passer and creator at the post

Hakeem lead the league in DWS and Defensive Rating like 7-years and play-offs too.

Defensive Rating

1984-85 NBA 102.5 (7)
1986-87 NBA 98.8 (1)
1987-88 NBA 98.0 (1)
1988-89 NBA 94.9 (1)
1989-90 NBA 93.4 (1)
1990-91 NBA 93.4 (1)
1991-92 NBA 98.9 (3)
1992-93 NBA 96.2 (2)
1993-94 NBA 95.0 (2)

Defensive Win Shares

1984-85 NBA 4.9 (4)
1986-87 NBA 6.0 (1)
1987-88 NBA 6.3 (1)
1988-89 NBA 7.8 (1)
1989-90 NBA 8.7 (1)
1990-91 NBA 5.7 (2)
1991-92 NBA 5.6 (4)
1992-93 NBA 8.0 (2)
1993-94 NBA 7.9 (2)
1994-95 NBA 5.6 (5)
1995-96 NBA 5.2 (10)
1996-97 NBA 5.6 (5)
1998-99 NBA 3.3 (8)
Career NBA 94.5 (3)

Its actually funny watching how he teaches Dwight post skills. How at that age now he is almost as agil and quick as Dwight evem as an old man

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mArHU1ewSog

[TheCorporation]

Well, most people took it seriously... don't you think? It couldn't have been that bad then.

If people can say LeBron is better than Magic Johnson was, then I can say with a straight face Dwight Howard is better than Hakeem Olajuwon was. The comparison is in the same ballpark as comparing LeBron and Magic.

What's next?

Claiming Tyson Chandler is a better rebounder than Dennis Rodman?
You're an idiot lol

[winwin]

lol OP you almost fooled me .. but i used

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_2rTR2Dls5Yg/SiS0eybgnDI/AAAAAAAAB54/AaUWKTU53Ak/s320/sarcasm_detector.jpg

[tontoz]

People keep in mind that the OP is the same guy who made a big thread about leaving the board years ago, then came back because he couldn't stay away. This is obviously another cry for attention.

[elementally morale]

People keep in mind that the OP is the same guy who made a big thread about leaving the board years ago, then came back because he couldn't stay away. This is obviously another cry for attention.

I'm the same guy, indeed. And I actually wasn't posting here for years. Reading... sometimes. Rarely. Posting? No.

As for attention... :oldlol:
Do you really think I'm in need of your attention? You have yourself in high-esteem, mate.

[Poochymama]

The OP already admitted he was trolling. Why are there people still arguing?
:facepalm

[Fatal9]

This thread was not intended to be trolling. All I wanted is a few guys believing I was serious in order to be able to show how ridiculous it is to claim LeBron being better than Magic Johnson.

It's not ridiculous at all. Career wise, whatever yea Magic is "greater" but strictly as a basketball player, it's not trolling to consider LeBron to be the better player. LOL if you think comparing LeBron with Magic is like comparing Dwight with Hakeem.

Stats are one thing but you'd think people would realize how vital LeBron is to wins/losses considering what happened to the Cavs. But yes, LeBron shouldn't be compared because unlike Magic he didn't enter the league on a contending team with the best player in the league, or because he wasn't playing on teams capable of winning 50 without him (see Laker record without Magic from '80-'85, and even when he left in '91, they had major injury issues the next season and still won 43). And as good as LeBron is in this era, the 80s game suits him even more. And lets also forget how much of a better scorer, defender and just overall halfcourt player (not that I don't expect LeBron to DOMINATE a league that stresses fast break) LeBron is over Magic, while being the best playmaker at the forward position ever (yes, over Bird though Bird was a better passer, LeBron is a better playmaker due to his ability to break down defenses).

You're a Laker fan so naturally you dislike LeBron and idolize Magic but quit being delusional thinking there is no comparison here.

[Da_Realist]

:oldlol: @ dudes taking this seriously

To the OP: :applause:

[elementally morale]

You're a Laker fan so naturally you dislike LeBron and idolize Magic but quit being delusional thinking there is no comparison here.

I agree. There is a comparison. It goes like this:

Magic > LeBron

I've just compared them.

[Orlando Magic]

You know what? He's obviously trolling, and is a far better poster than this, but there is one point he overlooked about the blocked shots thing... Hakeem did not play in an era with defensive 3 seconds. Dwight would probably average another 2 bpg if he could camp in the paint like Hakeem and Shaq used to.

[ICanDunk]

I agree. There is a comparison. It goes like this:

Magic > LeBron

I've just compared them.
:applause:

[elementally morale]

You know what? He's obviously trolling, and is a far better poster than this, but there is one point he overlooked about the blocked shots thing... Hakeem did not play in an era with defensive 3 seconds. Dwight would probably average another 2 bpg if he could camp in the paint like Hakeem and Shaq used to.

Not everything I said was outrageous. I happen to think Dwight is just as good a shotblocker. At the same time, he is not nearly as good a defender. Help defense is OK, but otherwise Hakeem is superior. Offensively speaking... now it becomes a little offensive to even compare the two.

But Dwight is not necessarily farther from Hakeem than Kobe is from Jordan. Or LeBron is from Magic. All are VERY far. It makes no sense measuring the distance.

[KevinNYC]

So would anyone who watched Hakeem play.

Dwight would have been baffled by Hakeem. Hakeem has been teaching Dwight basic low post moves. Tools that Dwight didn't have in his arsenal.

Also call me when Dwight averages more than 4 blocks per game or 2 steals a game, each of which Hakeem did several times

Trolly, trolly troll

[Bogus_Sting]

Dwight is also funnier and a better team player IMHO.

Funnier?

I saw Hakeem do stand-up and the comedy store. Had me in stiches.



Hakeem did not play in an era with defensive 3 seconds. Dwight would probably average another 2 bpg if he could camp in the paint like Hakeem and Shaq used to.

They still had illegal defensive rules, which meant he was in there less.

[Orlando Magic]

Not everything I said was outrageous. I happen to think Dwight is just as good a shotblocker. At the same time, he is not nearly as good a defender. Help defense is OK, but otherwise Hakeem is superior. Offensively speaking... not it becomes a little offensive to even compare the two.

But Dwight is not necessarily farther from Hakeem than Kobe is from Jordan. or LeBron is from Magic. All are VERY far. It makes no sense measuring the distance.

You are right, it is offensive to compare their offensive games... because Hakeem is probably the most complete offensive center the game has ever seen. Most effective? No. But most complete? Absolutely. Most post moves, fantastic jumper, fantastic passer... he had it all. Dwight is no where near that, I agree.

I wouldn't say Dwight wasn't "nearly" as good of a defender. I'd give Hakeem the edge but I'm fairly certain to say that he's not "nearly" is a bit of an exaggeration.

[Orlando Magic]

Funnier?

I saw Hakeem do stand-up and the comedy store. Had me in stiches.




They still had illegal defensive rules, which meant he was in there less.

lol @ comparing illegal defense then to illegal defense now...

[Rose]

lol @ comparing illegal defense then to illegal defense now...
:lol

[elementally morale]

You are right, it is offensive to compare their offensive games... because Hakeem is probably the most complete offensive center the game has ever seen. Most effective? No. But most complete? Absolutely. Most post moves, fantastic jumper, fantastic passer... he had it all. Dwight is no where near that, I agree.

I wouldn't say Dwight wasn't "nearly" as good of a defender. I'd give Hakeem the edge but I'm fairly certain to say that he's not "nearly" is a bit of an exaggeration.

The reason we can't really compare their defense is: No centers today. Dwight doesn't have to defend Kareem or Shaq (I mean SHAQ). Or Robinson. Or Ewing. He might be able to do a good job, but there is no way to find out. This is the same reason it is silly to even compare their offensive games. If Dwight can't score more often in today's league, he would have fared far worse during the 90's.

Nearly? I dunno. Let's not use this word then.

[Orlando Magic]

The reason we can't really compare their defense is: No centers today. Dwight doesn't have to defend Kareem or Shaq (I mean SHAQ). Or Robinson. Or Ewing. He might be able to do a good job, but there is no way to find out. This is the same reason it is silly to even compare their offensive games. If Dwight can't score more often in today's league, he would have fared far worse during the 90's.

Nearly? I dunno. Let's not use this word then.

He wouldn't be able to defend Shaq. Let's be real. Shaq would bulldoze his ass just like he basically did Hakeem in the Finals... and that wasn't even prime Shaq. Prime Shaq was probably the toughest cover in NBA history.

He could guard Robinson and Ewing. They could not out muscle him. If he'd struggle it'd be because of length but I doubt it. It's a shame Greg Oden isn't healthy and Bynum is so inconsistent.

[Bogus_Sting]

lol @ comparing illegal defense then to illegal defense now...

Illegal defense= only in paint when your man is on the weak side or in the key

Defense 3 seconds= in paint whenever you man is in the key, weak side or strong side.

The old ruling meant you couldn't hang back in the paint off your man at all, ball side. Now you can as long its for no more than 3 seconds

3 seconds in paint > 0 seconds in the paint

[Orlando Magic]

Illegal defense= only in paint when you man is on the weak side or in the key

Defense 3 seconds= in paint whenever you man is in the key, weak side or strong side.

The old ruling meant you couldn't hang back in the paint of you man at all ball side. Now you can as long its for no more than 3 seconds

3 seconds in paint > o seconds in the paint

Disagree.

Also... it's an instant technical now. It's not a first time warning like it used to be.

[elementally morale]

He wouldn't be able to defend Shaq. Let's be real. Shaq would bulldoze his ass just like he basically did Hakeem in the Finals... and that wasn't even prime Shaq. Prime Shaq was probably the toughest cover in NBA history.

He could guard Robinson and Ewing. They could not out muscle him. If he'd struggle it'd be because of length but I doubt it. It's a shame Greg Oden isn't healthy and Bynum is so inconsistent.

The real shame is Shaq not fulfilling his potential. He could have been the greatest there ever was. Even with the sorry work ethic he has had, he is easily top 10. And peak Shaq is pretty easily top 5. :facepalm @ what he could've been.

[tontoz]

I'm the same guy, indeed. And I actually wasn't posting here for years. Reading... sometimes. Rarely. Posting? No.

As for attention... :oldlol:
Do you really think I'm in need of your attention? You have yourself in high-esteem, mate.


Where did i say you needed my attention?

You have to be an attention whore to create a "hey look at me i am leaving thread". That has nothing to do with me.

[Orlando Magic]

The real shame is Shaq not fulfilling his potential. He could have been the greatest there ever was. Even with the sorry work ethic he has had, he is easily top 10. And peak Shaq is pretty easily top 5. :facepalm @ what he could've been.

I agree completely. Dude could have easily been the GOAT, lol... and that's almost unthinkable with the legacy Jordan left. Even with his sorry ass work ethic, he probably had the best peak ever and a top 10 career, as you said, lol... that's scary.

[elementally morale]

Where did i say you needed my attention?

You have to be an attention whore to create a "hey look at me i am leaving thread". That has nothing to do with me.

I respect your opinion. Yet I think you are a prick.

[elementally morale]

I agree completely. Dude could have easily been the GOAT, lol... and that's almost unthinkable with the legacy Jordan left. Even with his sorry ass work ethic, he probably had the best peak ever and a top 10 career, as you said, lol... that's scary.

Another player of the kind is Vince Carter. With Kobe's work ethic... we could realistically debate Jordan vs. Vince. It's not even funny how much more natural talent Vince Carter had in comparison with Kobe Bryant. On another note, being able to work hard is a kind of talent, too.

[Bogus_Sting]

Disagree.

Also... it's an instant technical now. It's not a first time warning like it used to be.

What is there to disagree about?

3>0

Are you trying to say 0> 3

Every play, defenders have the POTENTIAL to be in the paint strong side or without a defender for 3 seconds more than with the old rules. They are allowed to play zone (ie. guard and area in the key as opposed to guarding a specific player).

The argument was that in Hakeem's era players camped in the key, not how many technicals are called.

[PHILA]

Not quite.

[Orlando Magic]

Another player of the kind is Vince Carter. With Kobe's work ethic... we could realistically debate Jordan vs. Vince. It's not even funny how much more natural talent Vince Carter had in comparison with Kobe Bryant. On another note, being able to work hard is a kind of talent, too.

Also McGrady... if he didn't get injured so many times. And you are right... being able to work hard is kind of a talent as well. It's all a choice, at the end of the day, and anyone can work as hard as they want if they put their mind to it... but some people are just wired differently making it easier for them to make the choice.

[elementally morale]

Not quite.

I need proof.

[elementally morale]

Also McGrady... if he didn't get injured so many times. And you are right... being able to work hard is kind of a talent as well. It's all a choice, at the end of the day, and anyone can work as hard as they want if they put their mind to it... but some people are just wired differently making it easier for them to make the choice.

I'm not sure about McGrady. I agree with him being more naturally gifted than Bryant. Still not as much as Carter, and I'm talking about other things as well besides athleticism. (Not as if McGrady wasn't extremely athletic before the injuries, but Vince Carter is a different beast. Shaq-like.) McGrady had the same career as Penny Hardaway. Potential top 15 players, tough luck.

Another player that could've become great is Rasheed Wallace. All the talent in the world to become a lot better than Kevin McHale. And he ended up being Rasheed.

[pauk]

i agree man....

am sick of the overrating of these old school players....

its not like im a youngster... ive seen anything thru 90s... and seen lots of games from 80s and so on.... but enough is enough... some ppl act like those old schoolers are untouchable.... that there wont be any better players.... and that bball and players are only devolving instead of evolving

its not like hakeem was bad... but i think dwight would have been to much for this skinny dude...

[elementally morale]

i agree man....

am sick of the overrating of these old school players....

its not like im a youngster... ive seen anything thru 90s... and seen lots of games from 80s and so on.... but enough is enough... some ppl act like those old schoolers are untouchable.... that there wont be any better players.... and that bball and players are only devolving instead of evolving

its not like hakeem was bad... but i think dwight would have been to much for this skinny dude...

We agree to agree then, PB, my friend.
(A few weeks ago you were in your late teens... you should take notes.)

[MJistheGOAT]

Mental toughness and work ethic are essential parts of a GOAT player...

And D12 vs Hakeem ... I dont buy your trolling at all.

[elementally morale]

Mental toughness and work ethic are essential parts of a GOAT player...

And D12 vs Hakeem ... I dont buy your trolling at all.

:(

I had hopes you would, even after having read all these posts. :oldlol:

[G-train]

Some threads are funny; others are 'try hard' annoying.

This thread is the latter.

[elementally morale]

Some threads are funny; others are 'try hard' annoying.

This thread is the latter.

I actually agree with this. Really.

[MJistheGOAT]

:(

I had hopes you would, even after having read all these posts. :oldlol:

To be honest, I only read first and last page :rolleyes: but you have a nice point in the lebron vs magic and d12 vs hakeem debate.

[pauk]

We agree to agree then, PB, my friend.
(A few weeks ago you were in your late teens... you should take notes.)

lol yea i am but still seen games.... am not like 10 years old lol... u know there is dvds/xvids/divxs out there everywhere on the net... can get any game... youtube helps a bit to.. thx to the technology its like ive not missed anything

if u see my avatar u will notice i like old school movies aswell :D

love old school bball... but the overrating and exaggaration needs to stop

[G-train]

I actually agree with this. Really.

I know you do but you let it continue because you are sick and twisted.

[elementally morale]

To be honest, I only read first and last page :rolleyes: but you have a nice point in the lebron vs magic and d12 vs hakeem debate.

This thread is not funny. At all. It wasn't meant to be funny. It was meant to be serious, with a twist. I wanted to make it look believable for a few posts that I really think dwight is better than Hakeem. I kinda knew it would look awkward. But this was what I needed to prove a point.

It is AWKWARD argiung such bullsh!t. This way or the other. Doesn't matter. Even being involved in a discussion debating whether Dwight or Hakeem is better is... unreal. Awkward. As this thread is.

It came at a price: I had to make an ass out of myself. It was still worth it for me.

[kumquat]

skipped all the posts, but to the original poster......just no.....ugh.

[elementally morale]

I know you do but you let it continue because you are sick and twisted.

You forgot serial killer.

[elementally morale]

skipped all the posts

A huge mistake you've made.

[kumquat]

i agree man....

am sick of the overrating of these old school players....

its not like im a youngster... ive seen anything thru 90s... and seen lots of games from 80s and so on.... but enough is enough... some ppl act like those old schoolers are untouchable.... that there wont be any better players.... and that bball and players are only devolving instead of evolving

its not like hakeem was bad... but i think dwight would have been to much for this skinny dude...

Look at David Robinson.....hakeem made him look like a *****. Dwight Howard isn't even at David Robinson level.

[Harison]

4* for trolling attempt OP, you should make it less obvious for greater impact IMO. :pimp:

[chips93]

Another player of the kind is Vince Carter. With Kobe's work ethic... we could realistically debate Jordan vs. Vince. It's not even funny how much more natural talent Vince Carter had in comparison with Kobe Bryant. On another note, being able to work hard is a kind of talent, too.


interesting idea, but then almost everything is predetermined, id rather believe differently

[elementally morale]

4* for trolling attempt OP, you should make it less obvious for greater impact IMO. :pimp:

I know. But it was painful. Every minute of it. I couldn't handle the inner pressure.

[elementally morale]

interesting idea, but then almost everything is predetermined, id rather believe differently

You can overcome your flaws. It ain't easy but some people can do it.

[stephanieg]

Dwight isn't as good as prime Duncan yet, and Hakeem was basically a super athletic version of Duncan. Dwight sucks at passing which is why he turns it over so much when he gets doubled and his post up is still pretty weak and basic. He can't work mid/high post and either he can't or his coach thinks he can't work with another big man. He's also not as strong as he looks (see Sheed/B.Wallace/Perkins keeping him out). Like Barkley said, he has chicken legs. I don't like criticizing him this much because he's pretty much the only good offensive big man nowadays aside from when Bynum isn't blowing his knee out.

[chips93]

You can overcome your flaws. It ain't easy but some people can do it.


but then you have the ability to overcome flaws

[elementally morale]

but then you have the ability to overcome flaws

That's true. You have to have *some* ability to become *something*, right?

[donald_trump]

and yet all the while lebron is still better than magic.

[elementally morale]

and yet all the while lebron is still better than magic.

And sliced bread.

[Da_Realist]

Another player of the kind is Vince Carter. With Kobe's work ethic... we could realistically debate Jordan vs. Vince. It's not even funny how much more natural talent Vince Carter had in comparison with Kobe Bryant. On another note, being able to work hard is a kind of talent, too.

Nah... There was more than work ethic that separated MJ and Vince Carter. At some point, his mind must be given some credit. One thing to have the athleticism to do certain things and another to think to do it in the first place.

Also, his otherworldly stamina.

[elementally morale]

Nah... There was more than work ethic that separated MJ and Vince Carter.

I think we don't know this because Vince Carter had so little work ethic we can't even tell what he could have possibly become. He is so far from his ceiling, the only player I can compare him is Shaq. And even that is a bad comparison because for 3-4 years shaq showed us what he could've been. With Vince, we can only try guessing what he could have done had he been someone else while being himself.

But that's a rather tough thing to do.

[donald_trump]

And sliced bread.

and kobe.

[elementally morale]

and kobe.

So be it. Arguing LeBron is better than Kobe is fine. They are comparable. Arguing Kobe and Jordan or LeBron and Magic on the other hand is invalid.

[Kobe24Clutch]

If howard is better than Olajuwon, why did dwight ask for hakeems help over the summer?

[donald_trump]

So be it. Arguing LeBron is better than Kobe is fine. They are comparable. Arguing Kobe and Jordan or LeBron and Magic on the other hand is invalid.

no its not.

if lebron goes on to win 6 titles and another 6 mvps and 6 finals mvps everyone will look back on his career and look at those seasons as better in comparison to other all time greats.
yet now, they wont, just becuase he doesnt have the hardware.

and in the end, team hardware has little to do with how good you are as a player.

[elementally morale]

no its not.

if lebron goes on to win 6 titles and another 6 mvps and 6 finals mvps everyone will look back on his career and look at those seasons as better in comparison to other all time greats.
yet now, they wont, just becuase he doesnt have the hardware.

and in the end, team hardware has little to do with how good you are as a player.

Fine. But I'm not going to debate this with you and further, sorry. Have a nice day.

[Bird]

Edited for touche.

Only read page one before responding. I get the thread now.

[elementally morale]

Some of us don't have to watch tape....we saw Hakeem LIVE, much like we have seen Dwight LIVE.

How fortunate you are. :cheers:
But I suggest you read a little further.

[Bird]

How fortunate you are. :cheers:
But I suggest you read a little further.

My post was edited before you posted this.

My sarcasm detector is currently broke :cheers:

[elementally morale]

My post was edited before you posted this.

My sarcasm detector is currently broke :cheers:

You really shouldn't have deleted it. I loved the way you said it.

[T.O.RapsJays]

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn159/Captain802_Second/unsuccessful_troll.jpg

[crisscutfries]

Dwight Howard> The Dream at giving out concussions... I'll give him that

[BlackJoker23]

First thing first, he is stronger. He is a better defender. He is a bit less of a scorer but he is more effective. Look at their FG%. Dwight is also funnier and a better team player IMHO. A much better locker room presence. Dunking? It's a no contest. Blocking shots? This is misleading. Hakeem's stats are inflated due to the era he played in. Half of today's big man could average 3 bpg with all those unathletic players back then. D12 would have averaged at least 4 bpg back then.

And Howard doesn't have the presence of a Robert Horry, a Sam Cassell, a Clyde drexler and a Charles Barkley. Sorry. Hakeem was great in his own right and he is a top 15 player of all time, but he is not a better player than Dwight. If both of them are in their primes, I can see Howard winning the battle between the two.
was hakeem really a dream??

[elementally morale]

was hakeem really a dream??

A pipe dream at best.

[Bird]

You really shouldn't have deleted it. I loved the way you said it.

My bad, I thoroughly enjoyed writing it.

Gonna try to sort through my history and find the one page it is still alive on and I can repost.

[Bless Mathews]

It seems like a joke, but the tone of the post is serious and decidedly un-jovial.

I await further developments.


Post of the the month.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

Are you seriously putting Dwight Howard ahead of Hakeem Olajuwon right now?

[ICanDunk]

Are you seriously putting Dwight Howard ahead of Hakeem Olajuwon right now?
NSIS

[MAC system]

Obvious troll is obvious.


Hakeem is one of the best two way players to ever touch a basketball. If he had more rings, he'd be a top 5 player ever.

[Pinkhearts]

If posts like this exist now, I wonder what will happen in the future when people just look back at these guys based on stats.

Howard is the GOAT center! Look at all his DPOYs! Look he averaged 33/15 in the playoffs!

Sick joke people. Hakeem is one of the most talented big men ever out there. The only guy I will accept you arguing is better than him is Shaq.

Shaq/Hakeem > Duncan > Dwight

[fatboy11]

Thread title and post content of initial posts did not match the user.

Glad I decided to read enough to see the real purpose of the thread.

[MAC system]

If posts like this exist now, I wonder what will happen in the future when people just look back at these guys based on stats.

Howard is the GOAT center! Look at all his DPOYs! Look he averaged 33/15 in the playoffs!

Sick joke people. Hakeem is one of the most talented big men ever out there. The only guy I will accept you arguing is better than him is Shaq.

Shaq/Hakeem > Duncan > Dwight
Dude is not being serious. He's one of the better posters on here, and this is even more idiotic than the Kobe>MJ threads everyone(Hulk Hogan aka Fatal9) loves to start.

[bdreason]

I guess you never saw Hakeem play. :confusedshrug:

[Rhyen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBrEsNS9zKg

[Poochymama]

If posts like this exist now, I wonder what will happen in the future when people just look back at these guys based on stats.

Howard is the GOAT center! Look at all his DPOYs! Look he averaged 33/15 in the playoffs!

Sick joke people. Hakeem is one of the most talented big men ever out there. The only guy I will accept you arguing is better than him is Shaq.

Shaq/Hakeem > Duncan > Dwight

Kareem? Wilt? Russell?

[MAC system]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBrEsNS9zKg
:applause: :bowdown:

[Big#50]

LoL Oh, lawd.

[juju151111]

i agree man....

am sick of the overrating of these old school players....

its not like im a youngster... ive seen anything thru 90s... and seen lots of games from 80s and so on.... but enough is enough... some ppl act like those old schoolers are untouchable.... that there wont be any better players.... and that bball and players are only devolving instead of evolving

its not like hakeem was bad... but i think dwight would have been to much for this skinny dude...
Harem played against strong players like Drob and shaw Idiot

[DKLaker]

Dwight Howard is playing in a weak era of Centers.

The weakest ever!!!! Dwight has NO MOVES and will never win a ring....but we can't tell dumbass know it all kids anything :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[game385]

When I saw the topic I wondered if it was serious. To my dismay it was. :facepalm

The guy who posted it is either dumb or was born in the 1990's. I hope it's the later. Youth and ignorance gets the benefit of the doubt...

Explaining why Hakeem was better than Dwight currently is (potential aside), would be as asinine as explaining why Mike is better than Kobe. In fact it's probably worse.

[ICanDunk]

When I saw the topic I wondered if it was serious. To my dismay it was. :facepalm

The guy who posted it is either dumb or was born in the 1990's. I hope it's the later. Youth and ignorance gets the benefit of the doubt...

Explaining why Hakeem was better than Dwight currently is (potential aside), would be as asinine as explaining why Mike is better than Kobe. In fact it's probably worse.
You need to read farther lol.

[EleganceD]

http://i35.tinypic.com/*******.gif

[wTFaMonkey]

Dwight Howard wasnt even better than prime Yao. What makes you think Dwight can step up against the goat center.

[therammingman]

In response to the title of this thread...

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[HighFlyer23]

weak trolling bro

[elementally morale]

Reading is fundamental.
Having patience and reading a bit further is even more so.

Some of you guys are watching only the 1st quarter of a game and form your opinions of the end result based on ballers playing decoy. Not good.

[elementally morale]

weak trolling bro

:no:
STRONG trolling. So strong, most people here didn't even recognize the effort for trolling.

[Lebron23]

The only think Dwight is better than Hakeem is dunking.

[OmniStrife]

I'm telling you, shit like this just makes me wanna punch these fukcing stupid children on this site in the jaw...
:facepalm:

What's next?? Griffin > Shaq???

[chazzy]

I'm telling you, shit like this just makes me wanna punch these fukcing stupid children on this site in the jaw...
:facepalm:

What's next?? Griffin > Shaq???
Reading is fundamental

[ImmortalNemesis]

Thread is slightly over-saturated. Still funny. :)

[ballerz]

hakeem would murder dwight

[chains5000]

First thing first, he is stronger. He is a better defender. He is a bit less of a scorer but he is more effective. Look at their FG%. Dwight is also funnier and a better team player IMHO. A much better locker room presence. Dunking? It's a no contest. Blocking shots? This is misleading. Hakeem's stats are inflated due to the era he played in. Half of today's big man could average 3 bpg with all those unathletic players back then. D12 would have averaged at least 4 bpg back then.

And Howard doesn't have the presence of a Robert Horry, a Sam Cassell, a Clyde drexler and a Charles Barkley. Sorry. Hakeem was great in his own right and he is a top 15 player of all time, but he is not a better player than Dwight. If both of them are in their primes, I can see Howard winning the battle between the two.
http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx174/FlaK_93/TrollFace.png

[JohnnySic]

http://www.city-data.com/forum/members/jill61-603505-albums-board-images-pic69285-thread-failed.gif

[elementally morale]

http://www.city-data.com/forum/members/jill61-603505-albums-board-images-pic69285-thread-failed.gif


I don't think so. Instead:

http://members.optusnet.com.au/yeseron/Thread%20pics/this_thread_rocks.jpg

[momo]

This message is hidden because elementally morale is on your ignore list.

Lol and no he isn't.

[trig]

elementary morale
elementally ill

[Darius]

At what point did elementally become a troll? I haven't be tracking ISHevolution lately.

[Goffer3]

Dream 4 Life :bowdown: ..

Cant never forget the destruction of Ewing and Robinson

[ErhnamDjinn]

Bynum IF healthy in the 80's... he would have ruled the league. Especially playing alongside a Bird or a Magic Johnson. Do you really think Parish or old fart Kareem were any better? LOL

Shaq I give you. He is slightly better than Howard. At his peak. Careerwise, no. Accolades != career.
lmao you lost all credibility with this lmao :oldlol:

[elementally morale]

lmao you lost all credibility with this lmao :oldlol:

LOL :banana:

[elementally morale]

At what point did elementally become a troll? I haven't be tracking ISHevolution lately.

Several years ago. But I'm not your average troll. I'm a lot sicker than most trolls here. In this case:

Old era > new era

[Cowboy Thunder]

Dumbest thread of 2011

[The Ownage]

Wait. I haven't read the whole thread, but elementally morale is joking right?

He's never seemed like a troll to me. :confusedshrug:

[elementally morale]

Dumbest thread of 2011

:blah

[elementally morale]

Wait. I haven't read the whole thread, but elementally morale is joking right?

He's never seemed like a troll to me. :confusedshrug:

This behavior is called trolling for some reason. I don't think it is, but that's what they call it. Read the thread and tell us whether it's trolling or not.

[BlackJoker23]

look at hakeem get owned by pau gasol. if gasol can do this to hakeem, just imagine what dwight would do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05uutnKpvZ8

[Rolando]

Dwight working out with Hakeem last summer.....what an idiot! Doesn't he realize that he is better than The Dream already?

[eliteballer]

Stop trying to mock trolls elementally, you clearly do not have the comedic gifts necessary.

[elementally morale]

Stop trying to mock trolls elementally, you clearly do not have the comedic gifts necessary.

I'm not sure you have the brain cells necessary to really understand what happened here. It had approximately zero to do with comedy.

[ILLsmak]

First thing first, he is stronger. He is a better defender. He is a bit less of a scorer but he is more effective. Look at their FG%. Dwight is also funnier and a better team player IMHO. A much better locker room presence. Dunking? It's a no contest. Blocking shots? This is misleading. Hakeem's stats are inflated due to the era he played in. Half of today's big man could average 3 bpg with all those unathletic players back then. D12 would have averaged at least 4 bpg back then.

And Howard doesn't have the presence of a Robert Horry, a Sam Cassell, a Clyde drexler and a Charles Barkley. Sorry. Hakeem was great in his own right and he is a top 15 player of all time, but he is not a better player than Dwight. If both of them are in their primes, I can see Howard winning the battle between the two.

Howard would get done like Drob. DRob was also an athletic freak and Hakeem demoralized him. Just like Howard would if Hakeem schooled him a couple times. I bet Hakeem could still beat Howard in 1 v 1, and I bet howard would even admit that.

-Smak

[Lebron23]

elementary morale
elementally ill

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[rodman91]

First thing first, he is stronger. He is a better defender. He is a bit less of a scorer but he is more effective. Look at their FG%. Dwight is also funnier and a better team player IMHO. A much better locker room presence. Dunking? It's a no contest. Blocking shots? This is misleading. Hakeem's stats are inflated due to the era he played in. Half of today's big man could average 3 bpg with all those unathletic players back then. D12 would have averaged at least 4 bpg back then.

And Howard doesn't have the presence of a Robert Horry, a Sam Cassell, a Clyde drexler and a Charles Barkley. Sorry. Hakeem was great in his own right and he is a top 15 player of all time, but he is not a better player than Dwight. If both of them are in their primes, I can see Howard winning the battle between the two.

Better defender?
More Effective scorer?
Blocking?
Olajuwon needed Horry,Cassell, Drexler,Barkley?
Howard paid you for this thread?
its even too much for trolling

[tontoz]

I see the attention whore is hard at work keeping his thread about nothing going.

[Keith]

that's why Dwight wants to learn the Dream's moves?

http://craft1up.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/facepalm.jpg

[Disaprine]

First thing first, he is stronger. He is a better defender. He is a bit less of a scorer but he is more effective. Look at their FG%. Dwight is also funnier and a better team player IMHO. A much better locker room presence. Dunking? It's a no contest. Blocking shots? This is misleading. Hakeem's stats are inflated due to the era he played in. Half of today's big man could average 3 bpg with all those unathletic players back then. D12 would have averaged at least 4 bpg back then.

And Howard doesn't have the presence of a Robert Horry, a Sam Cassell, a Clyde drexler and a Charles Barkley. Sorry. Hakeem was great in his own right and he is a top 15 player of all time, but he is not a better player than Dwight. If both of them are in their primes, I can see Howard winning the battle between the two.
:facepalm

[rmt]

This thread is a joke, right?

[twintowers]

This thread is a joke, right?

Off course it's joke we are talking about hakeem the dream aa these young generations know nada....

[The Ownage]

This behavior is called trolling for some reason. I don't think it is, but that's what they call it. Read the thread and tell us whether it's trolling or not.
Ahh ok. Keep at it good lad! :cheers:

[Dray n Klay]

agreed

[fourkicks44]

agreed

Why?

[k0kakw0rld]

GODDAMN I can't believe such thread was allowed in this forum :facepalm

Hakeem is a top 10 all time player.

[Djax12]

5 years ago it was bad enough
And now... :facepalm

[HenryGarfunkle]

Wow. This guy trolled two different eras of posters, all in the same thread.

:roll:

****ing morons

[elementally morale]

Look who's back.