Is Popovich overrated?

[tamaraw08]

Im NOT saying Gregg is a bad coach, Im just asking if he is indeed rated by most fans and analysts as a GREAT coach.
For me, there are good coaches who can take over an injury riddled team and still manage to stay afloat and win games they are not supposed to win.
Coaches like Rick Adelman who lost Yao and TMac to a TON of games.
Nate McMillan's Blazers who lost Oden, and then Roy and still fighting hard or Jerry Sloan who survived and did good after losing Malone and Stockton to retirement.
Then there are great coaches like Auerbach, Phil who coached and Jordan-less Bulls to a 55-win season.
Hubie Brown who guided a bad Grizzlies team to the playoffs, coached the Knicks, taught them to play great defense etc.
Larry Brown who converted decent teams like the Spurs, Pacers, Sixers into very good, fighting/disciplined teams.
Same with Pat Riley who did great at LA, Knicks and Miami.
Going back to Popovich
He did GREAT with DRobinson, Duncan, Sean Elliot etc,
Then also did well with Manu, Parker and still hall of famer Duncan when they are young and healthy.
but now???
How about the pre Duncan season where he registered a 26% winning percentage, winning just 17 out of 64 games,
or when his team has struggled and lost early in the playoffs?
Is he really great? or he is very good?:confusedshrug:

[nosfan773]

No coach has done more with less IMO. Regardless of how this series turns out.

GOAT, but its debatable.

[ICanDunk]

You could make the same argument with any winning coach.

How about Doc Rivers' Celtics getting worse every year and him being on the verge of getting fired before Allen and KG came in?

[Miserio]

With Popovich, Kobe and Shaq would have been best friends, shared the rock and win 11 championships.

[Stuckey]

With Popovich, Kobe and Shaq would have been best friends, shared the rock and win 11 championships.

is Phil too laissez faire? i dont think anyone could have contained those two superegos

[L.Kizzle]

You know Aurebach coached pre Russell, hell pre-Celtics ... just putting that out there.

[tamaraw08]

You could make the same argument with any winning coach.

How about Doc Rivers' Celtics getting worse every year and him being on the verge of getting fired before Allen and KG came in?

Did you missed or forget how Doc Rivers coached the Orlando Magic team many years ago?:confusedshrug:
That Orlando team was full of scrubs and yet did pretty well inspite of their lack of talent.

[SCdac]

No I don't think he's overrated...

I do think too many people use faulty logic around here when it comes to coaches...

as in, "because a coach has done great things in the past, he can never make a mistake in the future"

I like to think most people don't agree with that statement, and don't necessarily have blind faith, no matter who the player or coach.

[ICanDunk]

Did you missed or forget how Doc Rivers coached the Orlando Magic team many years ago?:confusedshrug:
That Orlando team was full of scrubs and yet did pretty well inspite of their lack of talent.
I was just using an example to prove my point. You can make the "he only won because of he had great players" argument with any coach.

[tamaraw08]

I was just using an example to prove my point. You can make the "he only won because of he had great players" argument with any coach.

What????:eek:

Didn't I mentioned Larry Brown, Riley etc who converted decent teams with decent talent into very good teams?:confusedshrug:

Again guys, don't get me wrong. Im not saying he is not good, I think he is VERY GOOD, but Im not sure if he is great as in he is much better than Sloan, Van Gundy, Adelman.

[jlauber]

How about setting up a final play, and having Gary Neal take the game-tying 3 pt shot?

[ballerz]

he is quite a good coach not great but good

[ICanDunk]

How about setting up a final play, and having Gary Neal take the game-tying 3 pt shot?
That's like a trick play or going for it on fourth down in the NFL. You're either a genius or completely retarded depending on how it plays out.

[jlauber]

he is quite a good coach not great but good

Can you name ALL of the coach's who have guided teams to FOUR NBA titles?

http://www.nbauniverse.com/championships/coches_with_titles.htm

He is #5 all-time...

[ICanDunk]

Can you name ALL of the coach's who have guided teams to FOUR NBA titles?

http://www.nbauniverse.com/championships/coches_with_titles.htm

He is #5 all-time...
Phil Jackson
Red Auerbach
Pat Riley
John Kundla
Gregg Popovich

[Timmy D for MVP]

He is great. Combine everything he's done putting together that team to run his system. The way he handles his players. It all rolls into one fact and that is him being great.

I like to listen to people's peers. And other coaches around the league respect Coach Pop as a great.

[vinsane01]

Why question him now? Because they are down 3-2? Remember they won 61 games this season. Before the season started some people werent even expecting them to qualify for the playoffs. They have overachieved this season and it's because of pop and the other coaches made the necessary adjustments. No matter what the outcome of the playoffs, if anything this season justifies how good of a coach he is.

[jlauber]

He is great. Combine everything he's done putting together that team to run his system. The way he handles his players. It all rolls into one fact and that is him being great.

I like to listen to people's peers. And other coaches around the league respect Coach Pop as a great.

And he has taken multiple rosters to those four titles. I admit, Duncan has been a major reason, but I don't think that Pop has coached one season in which the Spurs actually had the most talented roster in the league.

[ICanDunk]

Pop really is great. Teams that win titles solely because their team is stacked tend to have very small championship windows because they require players to be in their prime.

Pop was able to win over so many years that you have to think he is great.

[SCdac]

How about setting up a final play, and having Gary Neal take the game-tying 3 pt shot?

****ing brilliant. IMO :applause:

in Ginobili's words
[quote]

[kkb_12]

Im NOT saying Gregg is a bad coach, Im just asking if he is indeed rated by most fans and analysts as a GREAT coach.
For me, there are good coaches who can take over an injury riddled team and still manage to stay afloat and win games they are not supposed to win.
Coaches like Rick Adelman who lost Yao and TMac to a TON of games.
Nate McMillan's Blazers who lost Oden, and then Roy and still fighting hard or Jerry Sloan who survived and did good after losing Malone and Stockton to retirement.
Then there are great coaches like Auerbach, Phil who coached and Jordan-less Bulls to a 55-win season.
Hubie Brown who guided a bad Grizzlies team to the playoffs, coached the Knicks, taught them to play great defense etc.
Larry Brown who converted decent teams like the Spurs, Pacers, Sixers into very good, fighting/disciplined teams.
Same with Pat Riley who did great at LA, Knicks and Miami.
Going back to Popovich
He did GREAT with DRobinson, Duncan, Sean Elliot etc,
Then also did well with Manu, Parker and still hall of famer Duncan when they are young and healthy.
but now???
How about the pre Duncan season where he registered a 26% winning percentage, winning just 17 out of 64 games,
or when his team has struggled and lost early in the playoffs?
Is he really great? or he is very good?:confusedshrug:

Popovic made Parker in what he is now. No other coach would give starting pointguard position and 30 minutes of playtime to 19 years old rookie coming directly from French league.

Ginobili arrived to NBA after playing in Italy on the same team with Marko Jaric - averaging 3-4 points more per game. Manu was coached by Popovich to what he is today. Jaric was coached by other coaches to what he is today.

[crisoner]

How could winning titles period be overrated?

It's the same argument for Phil...people want to point out the talent they had etc. but you can have all the talent and not utilize it right. An NBA season is 82 games plus another 16 - 30 playoff games etc. The season is long and you have to coach your team through the bumps bruises grind etc. That includes dealing with personalities from players, media, and owners alike at the same time injuries trades etc. And you do that year through year....a whole lot of skill it takes to be a coach. Pop is a great coach period....he has an aging team and lead them to the best record during the regular season for the most part....win or lose these playoffs he has done a great job.

Pop has done nothing but win with what he has had numerous times. Give the man his just dues.

[iamgine]

Coaching is all about environments. A coach can be successful in one setting and utterly fail in another. That doesn't mean he's not great, he just need the right environment and personnel around him.

[Timmy D for MVP]

Coaching is all about environments. A coach can be successful in one setting and utterly fail in another. That doesn't mean he's not great, he just need the right environment and personnel around him.

That's true about players as well. And even teams. As a matter fact almost everything about sports is about environment and context.

[kkb_12]

Coaching is all about environments. A coach can be successful in one setting and utterly fail in another. That doesn't mean he's not great, he just need the right environment and personnel around him.

And what was the name of GM that has setup environment for coach Pop in San Antonio ? The one that traded Dennis Rodman ?

[iamgine]

That's true about players as well. And even teams. As a matter fact almost everything about sports is about environment and context.
Now that we've establish that, then it's clear that the only good measure for greatness is how much success you have and not why you're successful in one kind of environment and fail in another.

Some coach who can do more with less (making 2nd round playoff with undersized team and Monta Ellis as best player for example), doesn't mean he can do more with more (Winning 6 titles with MJ and Pippen). And vice versa.

[Timmy D for MVP]

And what was the name of GM that has setup environment for coach Pop in San Antonio ? The one that traded Dennis Rodman ?

Oh great question, lets see..... I think.... and I could be wrong here it was something like.... Greg Popovich?

[LA_Showtime]

No, but he's definitely made crucial mistakes the last two years.

1) Not playing George Hill more often last season.

2) Failing to develop Splitter.

3) Relegating Blair to the bench despite playing (and starting) for the majority of the season.

4) Changing the team's identity near the end of the regular season.

5) Benching Gary Neal.

---

Despite that, he's clearly one of the best coaches in the NBA and an absolute asset to the San Antonio organization. The man can coach.

[Harison]

Its like saying "is Phil overrated?" :lol

Pop is an All-time great coach, one of the best in NBA. There are 1st seed with an aging core for a reason.

[ILLsmak]

No I don't think he's overrated...

I do think too many people use faulty logic around here when it comes to coaches...

as in, "because a coach has done great things in the past, he can never make a mistake in the future"

I like to think most people don't agree with that statement, and don't necessarily have blind faith, no matter who the player or coach.

Coaching in the NBA is more like playing poker than chess.

Pop had TD, and TD was a winner from day one. Having your leader be a winner makes a huge difference.

Phil made Shaq into a winner. I think Phil is the best coach, or was back when he cared, because he knew how to get the best out of each player. The only player he never got through to was Kobe. And he finally did, I think.

Pop is a great coach, though, but you'd have to be a homer to say if you are taking a good team that has potential to win a ring that you'd rather have Pop than Phil.

-Smak

[tamaraw08]

Popovic made Parker in what he is now. No other coach would give starting pointguard position and 30 minutes of playtime to 19 years old rookie coming directly from French league.

Ginobili arrived to NBA after playing in Italy on the same team with Marko Jaric - averaging 3-4 points more per game. Manu was coached by Popovich to what he is today. Jaric was coached by other coaches to what he is today.

I disagree. Parker would still be great with other coaches, same with Ginobli BOTH GUYS have this great quickness that enables him to knife his way to the teeth of the defense, get to the FT line and/or simply know how to finish.
If you are going to give full credit to Pops for the success of his players, would you blame him when his other players fail under him?:confusedshrug:
Remember Hedo Turkoglu?
Terry Porter? and now Richard Jefferson?
All these guys did relatively well elsewhere.

[hawksdogsbraves]

Not overrated AT ALL

I don't think there is another coach in the league that could have gotten this Spurs team to the number 1 seed in the West. He changed their very style of play to fit the roster this season. They simply aren't talented enough at this point to make any noise in the playoffs.

[tamaraw08]

How could winning titles period be overrated?

It's the same argument for Phil...people want to point out the talent they had etc. but you can have all the talent and not utilize it right. An NBA season is 82 games plus another 16 - 30 playoff games etc. The season is long and you have to coach your team through the bumps bruises grind etc. That includes dealing with personalities from players, media, and owners alike at the same time injuries trades etc. And you do that year through year....a whole lot of skill it takes to be a coach. Pop is a great coach period....he has an aging team and lead them to the best record during the regular season for the most part....win or lose these playoffs he has done a great job.

Pop has done nothing but win with what he has had numerous times. Give the man his just dues.

Let me again point out that Phil guided the Jordan-less Bulls to 55 wins.
In my book Pops is definitely in the top 8 best coaches all time but I don't like basing everything on just rings. Rudy T has 2 rings and yet was exposed when he parted ways with Olajuwon. Sloan has no rings, does that mean he is more inferior than Paul Westhead who has 1? Is Robert Horry better than Karl Malone bec Bob has rings?
YOu made good points about Pops accomplishments but it is just my opinion that he is not in my top 4 or 5.

[rmt]

I think Pop's great strength is his inter-personal skills - he knows when to be hard on a player, when he needs a pat on the back, how to get the most out of a player. Outside of Duncan, Robinson, Manu and Parker, he hasn't had the talent of the other great coaches but he's done a lot with what he had.

He's created a nurturing environment where all players can grow to their full potential. I don't think TP would have developed so well under another coach (and boy, did he scream at him all the time) and he gave Manu a long leash to do his crazy stuff.

He is also very good at drawing up time out plays.

OTOH, he's also quite inflexible. He'll stay the course a little too long eg. not playing Splitter till game 4, going under the screen with Conley.

His move (since 06) away from a 7 footer next to Duncan has needlessly worn down TD (when he should have given him more help) and will be the downfall of the Spurs.

The control he has over everything - on one hand creates that environment for everyone to thrive if they play their role - but on the other hand, he's like a dictator with no accountability when he makes mistakes (as all coaches/people do). He's also too arrogant with reporters and cuts them down so they dare not ask questions that go against his decisions/choices.

He has been blessed with Duncan and Robinson and vice versa.

[D.J.]

No way is he overrated. Popovich is known for getting the most out of his players. Look at his championship teams:


1999- past his prime Sean Elliott, 35 year old Mario Elie, Avery Johnson, Jaren Jackson, Malik Rose, etc

2003- 2nd year Tony Parker, Bruce Bowen, 37 year old Admiral, Stephen Jackson, Malik Rose, rookie Manu Ginobili, 33 year old Steve Smith, Speedy Claxton

2005- Bruce Bowen, Robert Horry, Brent BarryNazr Mohammed, Beno Udrih

2007- Bruce Bowen, past his prime Michael Finley, Fabricio Oberto, Robert Horry


Make no mistake, these guys all were team players and understood their roles. But in terms of individual talent, they were average at best and Popovich got the best out of them. Only a great coach can get guys with individual talents such as Bowen, Malik Rose, 2nd year Parker, rookie Ginobili, Horry, Barry, Mohammed, etc to come through and win.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

No, Pop is great. He was able to lead his team to the best record in the league despite Duncan having his worst year ever. He turned a boring defensive team into a run and gun team. That team isn't the best talent wise, that's why they can't get past the Lakers, or Thunder.
But Pop still got them to overachieve in the regular season. So he did more with less.

[Kellogs4toniee]

No he is not over-rated. He's perfectly rated. One of the greatest coaches in the history of the game.

[DKLaker]

Im NOT saying Gregg is a bad coach, Im just asking if he is indeed rated by most fans and analysts as a GREAT coach.
For me, there are good coaches who can take over an injury riddled team and still manage to stay afloat and win games they are not supposed to win.
Coaches like Rick Adelman who lost Yao and TMac to a TON of games.
Nate McMillan's Blazers who lost Oden, and then Roy and still fighting hard or Jerry Sloan who survived and did good after losing Malone and Stockton to retirement.
Then there are great coaches like Auerbach, Phil who coached and Jordan-less Bulls to a 55-win season.
Hubie Brown who guided a bad Grizzlies team to the playoffs, coached the Knicks, taught them to play great defense etc.
Larry Brown who converted decent teams like the Spurs, Pacers, Sixers into very good, fighting/disciplined teams.
Same with Pat Riley who did great at LA, Knicks and Miami.
Going back to Popovich
He did GREAT with DRobinson, Duncan, Sean Elliot etc,
Then also did well with Manu, Parker and still hall of famer Duncan when they are young and healthy.
but now???
How about the pre Duncan season where he registered a 26% winning percentage, winning just 17 out of 64 games,
or when his team has struggled and lost early in the playoffs?
Is he really great? or he is very good?:confusedshrug:


Tam08 my friend.....:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
Pop is truly a great, great coach.

Auerbach????? DUDE???? What can you tell me about the NBA back then???
How many teams....how freakin stacked were the Celtics, they only had 1 competitor...lol......Come On MAN!!!!!!
This argument makes no sense at all to me......I've been watching NBA since 1960.

The pre-Duncan season :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm Uh......you do realize that they were trying to get the #1 pick with Robinson out don't you? :confusedshrug: And that was such a long time ago.....like even BEFORE Kobe chucked up those airballs in the playoffs vs. Utah and guys said he was a bust who'd never win anything.......yeah.....that long ago :oldlol:

[chips93]

Im NOT saying Gregg is a bad coach, Im just asking if he is indeed rated by most fans and analysts as a GREAT coach.
For me, there are good coaches who can take over an injury riddled team and still manage to stay afloat and win games they are not supposed to win.
Coaches like Rick Adelman who lost Yao and TMac to a TON of games.
Nate McMillan's Blazers who lost Oden, and then Roy and still fighting hard or Jerry Sloan who survived and did good after losing Malone and Stockton to retirement.
Then there are great coaches like Auerbach, Phil who coached and Jordan-less Bulls to a 55-win season.
Hubie Brown who guided a bad Grizzlies team to the playoffs, coached the Knicks, taught them to play great defense etc.
Larry Brown who converted decent teams like the Spurs, Pacers, Sixers into very good, fighting/disciplined teams.
Same with Pat Riley who did great at LA, Knicks and Miami.
Going back to Popovich
He did GREAT with DRobinson, Duncan, Sean Elliot etc,
Then also did well with Manu, Parker and still hall of famer Duncan when they are young and healthy.
but now???
How about the pre Duncan season where he registered a 26% winning percentage, winning just 17 out of 64 games,
or when his team has struggled and lost early in the playoffs?
Is he really great? or he is very good?:confusedshrug:


there are different kinds of great coaches. some get great results from average players. another kind is getting really talented players to play cohesively and for the team. pop is the later. all of the coaches you mentioned were the first kind. both are great and not necessarily interchangeable. i dont think pop could do macmillan's job, or macmillan do pop's job.

those bolded players look great because of championships, because of pops great coaching. its a reciprocal thing, players win championships because they are great, but also they are seen as great because they have won championships.

you could argue that manu and tony would be nobodies if not for pops coaching, leading them to a couple titles

[Big#50]

He is a product of the Tim Duncan system.

[Durantula35]

I think Pop's great strength is his inter-personal skills - he knows when to be hard on a player, when he needs a pat on the back, how to get the most out of a player. Outside of Duncan, Robinson, Manu and Parker, he hasn't had the talent of the other great coaches but he's done a lot with what he had.
<snip>
OTOH, he's also quite inflexible. He'll stay the course a little too long eg. not playing Splitter till game 4, going under the screen with Conley.
<snip>
He has been blessed with Duncan and Robinson and vice versa.

I agree. He has to be considered a great coach. But he's not perfect as you rightly point. Sometimes the same characteristics that make a coach great can be their downfall under the wrong circumstances.

Phil Jackson isn't considered to be a good developer of young talent. Someone pointed out that Doc has gotten more out of his young players in Boston than Phil has in LA.

[MooseJuiceBowen]

this thread is terrible. pop is a top 3 coach of all time.

[Bigsmoke]

He's a great coach. be mad at his players.

[Bigsmoke]

2007- Bruce Bowen, past his prime Michael Finley, Fabricio Oberto, Robert Horry

Parker, rookie Ginobili, Horry, Barry, Mohammed, etc to come through and win.

meh. that team was stacked

[B]

Im NOT saying Gregg is a bad coach, Im just asking if he is indeed rated by most fans and analysts as a GREAT coach.I cannot believe this is even a question. Yes he's a great coach, just because you can name other great coaches doesn't mean he isn't one of them. Seriously flawed question and argument on your part.

4 NBA titles
67% winning percentage

He gets more out of players than just about any coach out there.

[D.J.]

meh. that team was stacked


I really hope that's sarcasm.

[DKLaker]

What the hell are some guys thinking........should have developed Splitter????
Splitter???? Really???? Splitter's ceiling is Oberto or Nesterovic.......please guys, stop acting like he is going to be a baller :banghead:

Pop has done more to develop young players than any coach who is considered great. He wins that argument all day!!!!!

This is a terrible thread, even 99% of us Lakers fans say he's an all-time great. Sorry Tam08....gotta be honest.

[Tlova]

What the hell are some guys thinking........should have developed Splitter????
Splitter???? Really???? Splitter's ceiling is Oberto or Nesterovic.......please guys, stop acting like he is going to be a baller :banghead:

Pop has done more to develop young players than any coach who is considered great. He wins that argument all day!!!!!

This is a terrible thread, even 99% of us Lakers fans say he's an all-time great. Sorry Tam08....gotta be honest.
Another failed overreaction thread, pop is legit. All he had was duncan and above average players while other coaches had multiple top 10 players and gets worshiped:facepalm

[rmt]

What the hell are some guys thinking........should have developed Splitter????
Splitter???? Really???? Splitter's ceiling is Oberto or Nesterovic.......please guys, stop acting like he is going to be a baller :banghead:

Regardless of what Splitter will be - he is currently a big body that is almost 7ft tall and mobile - better against Gasol and Randolph than Bonner, Blair and arguably Dice. Duncan is 35 and Dice is almost 37. How many of the 96 big man minutes can they play? Splitter is the best option for any minutes not played by Duncan/Dice. Both Blair and Bonner get abused by Gasol/Randolph.

[FKAri]

Pop is the best coach in the NBA imo and is underrated.

Tactically, I think he is the best in the NBA and has been for a while. Other great tactical coaches right now are mainly defensive specialists but can't rival Pop on the offensive end.

Pop's not only great at in-game adjustments but also designing gameplans.

He's shown he can manage stars, veterans and rookies (a rare coaching ability).

[Kiddlovesnets]

People jump on bandwagon so quickly, I'd expect threads like 'Popovich > Red Auerbach' if the Spurs come back and beat Grizzlies in 7.

[Durantula35]

I really hope that's sarcasm.

Yep. He was kidding.

[Shih508]

Best coach ever, highest winning % wise and most championships without ever coaching Lakers or Celtics!

[B]

People jump on bandwagon so quickly, I'd expect threads like 'Popovich > Red Auerbach' if the Spurs come back and beat Grizzlies in 7.Auerbach is overrated, Was the GM and coach and had an open checkbook in an era where most teams were just scraping to get by. Easier to turn a team of all stars into a champion when you're on a whole other level than the rest of the league. I think he was a better GM than coach in the end. Knew what the team needed and was able to go get it no questions asked.

[DKLaker]

Regardless of what Splitter will be - he is currently a big body that is almost 7ft tall and mobile - better against Gasol and Randolph than Bonner, Blair and arguably Dice. Duncan is 35 and Dice is almost 37. How many of the 96 big man minutes can they play? Splitter is the best option for any minutes not played by Duncan/Dice. Both Blair and Bonner get abused by Gasol/Randolph.

LOL....why do people think just because a guy is TALL that means they are good....Splitter is not stopping anyone.....you are forgetting that both Randolph and Gasol can shoot and are faster than Splitter....and much stronger.
POP has 4 rings for a reason.....all of the sudden FANS think they know better than him :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[DKLaker]

[QUOTE=B

[DKLaker]

Pop is the best coach in the NBA imo and is underrated.

Tactically, I think he is the best in the NBA and has been for a while. Other great tactical coaches right now are mainly defensive specialists but can't rival Pop on the offensive end.

Pop's not only great at in-game adjustments but also designing gameplans.

He's shown he can manage stars, veterans and rookies (a rare coaching ability).

I agree with every word of this :cheers:

[Lebron23]

Hell No. He finally learned some major lessons after his feud with Rodman in the 1995 NBA Season. And the Spurs are winning even without Timmy.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NBASpurs/comments/16j8tx/a_chapter_from_dennis_rodmans_book_on_his_time_in/

[k0kakw0rld]

Won with young Duncan? Yes
Won with prime Duncan? Yes
won with post-prime Duncan? Yes
Currently 2-0 without Duncan

Overrated? what the fxck are you talking about my friend.

Clearly the GOAT coach.