Top Government Insider: Bin Laden Died In 2001, 9/11 A False Flag

[bagelred]

Start on your path to learning. Challenge yourself to actually read up on this stuff:

http://www.infowars.com/top-us-government-insider-bin-laden-died-in-2001-911-a-false-flag/

[QUOTE]Top US government insider Dr. Steve R. Pieczenik, a man who held numerous different influential positions under three different Presidents and still works with the Defense Department, shockingly told The Alex Jones Show yesterday that Osama Bin Laden died in 2001 and that he was prepared to testify in front of a grand jury how a top general told him directly that 9/11 was a false flag inside job.

Pieczenik cannot be dismissed as a

[thatoneblackguy]

9/11 was an inside job. They chose the perfect time to come out with Bin Laden's death. Great propaganda tactics by the U.S. government, just look at all the brain dead sheep in front of the white house.

**** yeah, more war, 90% of heroin coming from middle east ever since the war started, before it was below 5%, excuse to invade more countries, look out for another false flag terror attack. (Never forget Gulf of Tonkin incident/ proven false flag terror)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvQDFV1HINw

[TheReturnofCed]

http://www.informationliberation.com/files/osam_des.jpg

[DeuceWallaces]

Start on your path to learning. Challenge yourself to actually read up on this stuff:

http://www.infowars.com/top-us-government-insider-bin-laden-died-in-2001-911-a-false-flag/

Challenge yourself to utilize logic.

You believe one guy out of thousands of government and military officials?

[thatoneblackguy]

Challenge yourself to utilize logic.

You believe one guy out of thousands of government and military officials?
There are so many wrongs in this quote I don't know where to begin.

[bagelred]

Challenge yourself to utilize logic.

You believe one guy out of thousands of government and military officials?

It's not just this "one guy". It's this guy + the others mountains and mountains of evidence that 9/11 was a lie and Osama has been dead a long time. This is just yet another drop in the bucket of information telling us that.

[deion2123]

Challenge yourself to utilize logic.

You believe one guy out of thousands of government and military officials?
yes..cause I am so sure that all those guys would risk their careers and lives to do something like that

[deion2123]

Start on your path to learning. Challenge yourself to actually read up on this stuff:

http://www.infowars.com/top-us-government-insider-bin-laden-died-in-2001-911-a-false-flag/
that guy is a goner

[DropStep]

If 999 farts smell bad and 1 fart smells good then farts must smell good right?
I love conspiracy theorist logic.

This might be one of the first legitimate proof that 9/11 might be a little BS. Does this man have a book coming out soon or something?
Alex Jones is cashing in.

Im voting for Ron Paul just to be safe.

[bagelred]

If 999 farts smell bad and 1 fart smells good then farts must smell good right?
I love conspiracy theorist logic.


It's quite the opposite. There is actually tons and tons of evidence that 9/11 is not what we were told. And there's no evidence it was Osama and 19 random hijackers acting alone.

If you have to believe what gov't and media tell you, without any proof, go ahead. I'll go with the people that show us hard cores facts, observations, logic, scientific evidence, etc.....that 9/11 was not what we think.

But if you want to just be "told" what to believe, go for it.

[thatoneblackguy]

And if you study history - you will find out that government has lied countless times to its people to get what the government wanted/ get on the path to their ultimate goal.
They have even constructed "False Flag Terror Attacks". (See: Gulf of Tonkin Incident)


False flag (aka Black Flag) operations are covert operations designed to deceive the public in such a way that the operations appear as though they are being carried out by other entities.

[DeuceWallaces]

You guys are hilarious. Wake up and get a life. It's the uneducated dolts who never learned critical thinking and spend all day on the internet who propagate this bullshit.

There's very little to gain from saying he's been killed. Most people had forgotten about it, and we're still 2 years from an election. Furthermore, if this was all a conspiracy why wouldn't the organizers of the inside job (Bush Jr's administration) have taken credit for his death in a time frame that made sense. If his intell knew that Osama was dead in '01 then they would have taken credit for it months after 9/11. If they could orchestrate the bombing of several NY sky scrapers and the pentagon then surely they could handle a faux death of a terrorist leader half way across the world who died in some Pakistani cave.

You guys are ****ing idiots.

[thatoneblackguy]

You guys are hilarious. Wake up and get a life. It's the uneducated dolts who never learned critical thinking and spend all day on the internet who propagate this bullshit.

There's very little to gain from saying he's been killed. Most people had forgotten about it, and we're still 2 years from an election. Furthermore, if this was all a conspiracy why wouldn't the organizers of the inside job (Bush Jr's administration) have taken credit for his death in a time frame that made sense. If his intell knew that Osama was dead in '01 then they would have taken credit for it months after 9/11. If they could orchestrate the bombing of several NY sky scrapers and the pentagon then surely they could handle a faux death of a terrorist leader half way across the world who died in some Pakistani cave.

You guys are ****ing idiots.
:facepalm Ofcourse, personal attacks. Typical from brainwashed sheeple. Instead of having a mature discussion, the first emotion slaves feel is anger when faced with something "out of step" they can't wrap their minds around it.

[bagelred]

You guys are hilarious. Wake up and get a life. It's the uneducated dolts who never learned critical thinking and spend all day on the internet who propagate this bullshit.

There's very little to gain from saying he's been killed. Most people had forgotten about it, and we're still 2 years from an election. Furthermore, if this was all a conspiracy why wouldn't the organizers of the inside job (Bush Jr's administration) have taken credit for his death in a time frame that made sense. If his intell knew that Osama was dead in '01 then they would have taken credit for it months after 9/11. If they could orchestrate the bombing of several NY sky scrapers and the pentagon then surely they could handle a faux death of a terrorist leader half way across the world who died in some Pakistani cave.

You guys are ****ing idiots.

Read up the subject and find out for yourself.

[DeuceWallaces]

:facepalm Ofcourse, personal attacks. Typical from brainwashed sheeple.

The first line in the OP was an attack at non-conspiracy believers ability to critically think.

[deion2123]

You guys are hilarious. Wake up and get a life. It's the uneducated dolts who never learned critical thinking and spend all day on the internet who propagate this bullshit.

There's very little to gain from saying he's been killed. Most people had forgotten about it, and we're still 2 years from an election. Furthermore, if this was all a conspiracy why wouldn't the organizers of the inside job (Bush Jr's administration) have taken credit for his death in a time frame that made sense. If his intell knew that Osama was dead in '01 then they would have taken credit for it months after 9/11. If they could orchestrate the bombing of several NY sky scrapers and the pentagon then surely they could handle a faux death of a terrorist leader half way across the world who died in some Pakistani cave.

You guys are ****ing idiots.
or they could still say he is alive and pass policies that they want and keep alive military operations in places they want to with using him as a crutch

[TheReturnofCed]

You guys are hilarious. Wake up and get a life. It's the uneducated dolts who never learned critical thinking and spend all day on the internet who propagate this bullshit.

There's very little to gain from saying he's been killed. Most people had forgotten about it, and we're still 2 years from an election. Furthermore, if this was all a conspiracy why wouldn't the organizers of the inside job (Bush Jr's administration) have taken credit for his death in a time frame that made sense. If his intell knew that Osama was dead in '01 then they would have taken credit for it months after 9/11. If they could orchestrate the bombing of several NY sky scrapers and the pentagon then surely they could handle a faux death of a terrorist leader half way across the world who died in some Pakistani cave.

You guys are ****ing idiots.

On the contrary, if they had released news of his death so soon after the war began then people would say "why are we at war? we can end this now"

Also funny how you think in terms of what is beneficial for the left or the right. It's not about that. It's about what is beneficial for the plan as a whole, orchestrated by those truly in power... with the $$$

[thatoneblackguy]

The first line in the OP was an attack at non-conspiracy believers ability to critically think.
There's a difference between saying "Hey check this out" than "You're all ****ing idiots." If you can't see that then I am sorry. We are all on the same team, this is a classic example of Divide & Conquer. Keep us fighting eachother while the banks and the elite rip us a new one.

[shlver]

There's a difference between saying "Hey check this out" than "You're all ****ing idiots." If you can't see that then I am sorry.
But, I'm sorry to say, you guys are a bunch of ****ing idiots.

[thatoneblackguy]

But, I'm sorry to say, you guys are a bunch of ****ing idiots.
Thanks for proving my point. And what do you have to bring to the table other than that? Nothing. That's what I thought. Go run along and watch American Idol or something. I heard Charlie Sheen is acting crrrrrrrazzzzzzzzzyyyyyyyyyy!!!! wooaahhh! :rolleyes: :facepalm

[deion2123]

But, I'm sorry to say, you guys are a bunch of ****ing idiots.
please put up your argument instead of just using personal insults which just shows you have nothing

[bagelred]

:roll: :roll: Photos will NOT be released of Osama's death. What a surprise!!!!:oldlol:

This is pathetic. Even a monkey can figure this out:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110504/ap_on_re_us/us_bin_laden

[TheReturnofCed]

But, I'm sorry to say, you guys are a bunch of ****ing idiots.

Those who believe all the government lies are really getting shaken up lately. Seem to be resorting to personal attacks more than anything these days. I've noticed it here and elsewhere. Their illusion is slowly crumbling before them. It's ok man. We're all on the same side, like the dude said above.

[shlver]

Thanks for proving my point. And what do you have to bring to the table other than that? Nothing. That's what I thought.
It doesn't matter because you guys believe conspiracy theories are truth and there is nothing that will sway you.

[DeuceWallaces]

On the contrary, if they had released news of his death so soon after the war began then people would say "why are we at war? we can end this now"

Then why give it up now? What's the point. What conspiracy explains the reasons for saying he's dead now?


Read up the subject and find out for yourself.

I have read most of this crap, but the difference between you and me is I decide for myself what constitutes reasonable doubt and falls within the realm of probability, while you let internet videos and bloggers decide that for you.

[crisoner]

Oh GOD.........

If Bush JR. had and knew of this trump card why did he not pull it out when his presidency was in the dumps? Some people LOVE conspiracy theories a lil too much. I was in to them as well when I was in High School. Then I grew up.

[thatoneblackguy]

It doesn't matter because you guys believe conspiracy theories are truth and there is nothing that will sway you.
My mind is open to everything, I love to discuss each side of every argument. That's what makes it so interesting. Having a one-sided opinion on something is very dull.

[DeuceWallaces]

Those who believe all the government lies are really getting shaken up lately. Seem to be resorting to personal attacks more than anything these days. I've noticed it here and elsewhere. Their illusion is slowly crumbling before them. It's ok man. We're all on the same side, like the dude said above.

Lol, grow up. This thread is about Osama's death and no one has put forth any logical reason as to why it was covered up for 11 years and what purpose it serves as a conspiracy today.

You guys are thick as bricks.

[thatoneblackguy]

Then why give it up now? What's the point. What conspiracy explains the reasons for saying he's dead now?



I have read most of this crap, but the difference between you and me is I decide for myself what constitutes reasonable doubt and falls within the realm of probability, while you let internet videos and bloggers decide that for you.
I actually let documents do the work. Proven documents.

[DeuceWallaces]

I actually let documents do the work. Proven documents.

You don't possess any proven legal documents nor do you know anyone who does.

[thatoneblackguy]

Lol, grow up. This thread is about Osama's death and no one has put forth any logical reason as to why it was covered up for 11 years and what purpose it serves as a conspiracy today.

You guys are thick as bricks.
If you really don't know why... :facepalm

[thatoneblackguy]

You don't possess any proven legal documents nor do you know anyone who does.
That's where the research fun comes in.

[shlver]

I actually let documents do the work. Proven documents.
I wanna see them.

[deion2123]

It doesn't matter because you guys believe conspiracy theories are truth and there is nothing that will sway you.
nope I don't believe everything out there...hell I don't even know what to believe with Osama being dead or alive or whatever..when I see some stuff not making sense or adding up I like to question things..just me

[Doomsday Dallas]

There's a difference between saying "Hey check this out" than "You're all ****ing idiots." If you can't see that then I am sorry. We are all on the same team, this is a classic example of Divide & Conquer. Keep us fighting eachother while the banks and the elite rip us a new one.


You'll have to forgive my friends Deuce & Shlver... and all the other OTC posters that apparently love getting f*cked in the ass.

[thatoneblackguy]

I wanna see them.
Research. It's not hard if your IQ is above 30.

[shlver]

Research. It's not hard if your IQ is above 30.
Let me see the proven documents that you have.
Waits for a conspiracy site

[TheReturnofCed]

Then why give it up now? What's the point. What conspiracy explains the reasons for saying he's dead now?

A birther may say it was used as a distraction to quell persistent doubts even with Obama's latest birth certificate release. I however see this as more likely to be a pre-emptive maneuver. The Osama chip is just too big to use on a fringe birth certificate theory. They've been holding this for years. It's a huge chip that can be used to sway the majority public opinion. The media is already demonizing Pakistan... I think we will have to wait to find the answer to this question but I'd guess it will probably involve some type of attack (either in the US or Pakistan)

[shlver]

A birther may say it was used as a distraction to quell persistent doubts even with Obama's latest birth certificate release. I however see this as more likely to be a pre-emptive maneuver. The Osama chip is just too big to use on a fringe birth certificate theory. They've been holding this for years. It's a huge chip that can be used to sway the majority public opinion. The media is already demonizing Pakistan... I think we will have to wait to find the answer to this question but I'd guess it will probably involve some type of attack (either in the US or Pakistan)
Why didn't Bush use it then for his reelection? If he was dead for 10 years.

[Hotlantadude81]

Oh GOD.........

If Bush JR. had and knew of this trump card why did he not pull it out when his presidency was in the dumps? Some people LOVE conspiracy theories a lil too much. I was in to them as well when I was in High School. Then I grew up.

Or some people just don't like to take other people's word for it. Especially when it heavily involves political figures.

[bagelred]

Lol, grow up. This thread is about Osama's death and no one has put forth any logical reason as to why it was covered up for 11 years and what purpose it serves as a conspiracy today.

You guys are thick as bricks.

Really? You can't figure this out?

Osama is the figure head for the entire "War on Terror". If he dies in 2001, do we even go to war?

Trillions stolen from the Treasury.....all they have to do is keep Osama "alive".

So why now? Why show up killed now? I mean, we could easily speculate as to give Obama a boost heading into election season, to justify the trillions of dollars because we "won" the war (what ajoke). And as justification for the next round of invasions.

It's not hard to see.....

[TheReturnofCed]

Why didn't Bush use it then for his reelection? If he was dead for 10 years.

He didn't have to. It wasn't important enough to use in that situation. He got reelected anyway in an election that many speculated was rigged. Had Kerry gotten elected, the war situation would not have changed much. Again it's not about left or right, who is the president, etc but about the plan as a whole. That plan now involves Pakistan and whoever else they might find dirt about on the tapes and hard drives they supposedly "recovered"

[-playmaker-]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/04/bin.laden.main/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1

Obama has announced he won't release any photos...

the body was thrown in the ocean...

the mansion he was killed burned to the ground...

all we have to work with is thier word...



I have no reason to assume they are lieing about what happened, apparently many people in Osama's family have postively identifeid the body, including his daughter...HOWEVER, I don't have any issue with people QUESTIONING this...

if you QUESTION this =GOOD

if you CLAIM it is fact that this was conspired = RETARDED

[shlver]

He didn't have to. It wasn't important enough to use in that situation. He got reelected anyway in an election that many speculated was rigged. Had Kerry gotten elected, the war situation would not have changed much. Again it's not about left or right, who is the president, etc but about the plan as a whole. That plan now involves Pakistan and whoever else they might find dirt about on the tapes and hard drives they supposedly "recovered"
What does the reelection being rigged have to do with anything?

[bagelred]

Then why give it up now? What's the point. What conspiracy explains the reasons for saying he's dead now?



I have read most of this crap, but the difference between you and me is I decide for myself what constitutes reasonable doubt and falls within the realm of probability, while you let internet videos and bloggers decide that for you.


Right....because we all just lap up whatever anyone tells us. No one has the ability to think critically but you. :rolleyes:

There are 80000 holes in the 9/11 story. Just WTC7 alone can convince someone that 9/11 is a lie.

[Rasheed1]

Alot of these theories are good speculation, but you really cannot draw any conclusions if you arent sure...


I personally believe Osama has probably been dead for years.... But then again, I dont think this operation was faked.... Maybe it was timed for maximum bounce for Obama... but I dont really believe they faked it


To me, alot of these government stories are just that... Stories

is it true they killed Bin Laden the way they say they did? :confusedshrug: honestly there is no way to be certain..

I created a 3rd category beyond true or false and that category is called "what they say happened"

sometimes you have to just admit that you dont know rather than draw conclusions from dicey info that could very well be misinformation

[shlver]

Alot of these theories are good speculation, but you really cannot draw any conclusions if you arent sure...


I personally believe Osama has probably been dead for years.... But then again, I dont think this operation was faked.... Maybe it was timed for maximum bounce for Obama... but I dont really believe they faked it


To me, alot of these government stories are just that... Stories

is it true they killed Bin Laden the way they say they did? :confusedshrug: honestly there is no way to be certain..

I created a 3rd category beyond true or false and that category is called "what they say happened"

sometimes you have to just admit that you dont know rather than draw conclusions from dicey info that could very well be misinformation
I agree with this. I think the most important thing is the perception that the US killed Osama. Bin Laden was thought to be protected by God. We not only killed a charismatic leader, we crippled their beliefs.

"The dream to kill me will never be completed" - Osama Bin Laden

[TheReturnofCed]

What does the reelection being rigged have to do with anything?

What does bush have to do with anything in the first place? You're the one who brought him up :confusedshrug:

[shlver]

What does bush have to do with anything in the first place? You're the one who brought him up :confusedshrug:
I'm doing what you guys are best at.

[-playmaker-]

is it true they killed Bin Laden the way they say they did? :confusedshrug: honestly there is no way to be certain..

this is the right way to go about this situation I think...the "I don't know" stance

most conspiracy nuts claim they do know though...as though it is fact this was all a lie...

[TheReturnofCed]

I'm doing what you guys are best at.

Getting off topic seems to be your forte... didn't notice anyone else doing that here.:hammerhead:

[-playmaker-]

One of bin Laden's daughters has told Pakistani interrogators that she saw her father be shot and killed by U.S. forces, a senior Pakistani intelligence source said Wednesday.

The daughter, believed to be 12 or 13 years old, was among those left behind at the compound after Monday's U.S. raid, the source said.


http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/04/bin.laden.main/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1


gonna have to go on this kind of stuff...


Bin Laden's wife IDed the body too...

[shlver]

Getting off topic seems to be your forte... didn't notice anyone else doing that here.:hammerhead:
k let me spell it out for you. If Osama was really dead for ten years, why would Bush let such a strong chip go to waste? It doesn't make sense.

[Scholar]

What does the reelection being rigged have to do with anything?

OMG... Seriously, bro. You asked why Bush didn't use Osama's death for reelection. Clearly, he didn't need to use the death of public enemy #1 because the election was rigged, so Bush was going to win any way. I mean, damn... Why not just read the post, understand it, and then post? It'd be better than asking stupid questions after they've already been answered for you.

Look, if you don't believe the govt. is capable of a heinous attack on its own civilians, but you can believe that 19 men hijacked 4 different planes and crashed them in different parts of the U.S. without the military being able to react as soon as the first FRIKKIN' plane hit the first tower, then good for you. Congrats. You're cool.
Now stop arguing the facts. Instead of coming in here and telling everyone they need to get a life, how about you find yours and stop checking in here to argue with people online?
:rolleyes:

[shlver]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/04/bin.laden.main/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1


gonna have to go on this kind of stuff...


Bin Laden's wife IDed the body too...
I wonder how these guys respond to this.

[-playmaker-]

k let me spell it out for you. If Osama was really dead for ten years, why would Bush let such a strong chip go to waste? It doesn't make sense.
because it is all part of the Illuminati's plan they have had for 800 years...this was the perfect time

Obama and Bush can be linked to some dude in England who was alive before Christ...so they are related and this is planned

the chess pieces are in place

we are all slaves

you are blind, open your eyes



nuclear war they win...

[shlver]

OMG... Seriously, bro. You asked why Bush didn't use Osama's death for reelection. Clearly, he didn't need to use the death of public enemy #1 because the election was rigged, so Bush was going to win any way. I mean, damn... Why not just read the post, understand it, and then post? It'd be better than asking stupid questions after they've already been answered for you.

Look, if you don't believe the govt. is capable of a heinous attack on its own civilians, but you can believe that 19 men hijacked 4 different planes and crashed them in different parts of the U.S. without the military being able to react as soon as the first FRIKKIN' plane hit the first tower, then good for you. Congrats. You're cool.
Now stop arguing the facts. Instead of coming in here and telling everyone they need to get a life, how about you find yours and stop checking in here to argue with people online?
:rolleyes:
So you're operating on the assumption that the election was rigged? Why didn't he use it during the election season when anti terrorism sentiments were still strong and Bush's approval ratings were dwindling?

[DeuceWallaces]

Right....because we all just lap up whatever anyone tells us. No one has the ability to think critically but you. :rolleyes:

There are 80000 holes in the 9/11 story. Just WTC7 alone can convince someone that 9/11 is a lie.

No it doesn't. Some nutjob architects with a bunch of models does not constitute proof. No model can accurately account for flying two 747's into skyscrapers and and seeing how it "should" affect adjacent areas and buildings. That's not how models work.

Until they build three test buildings, fly two planes into them, and see the neighboring one still standing it's a bunch of crap.

[bagelred]

Look, if you don't believe the govt. is capable of a heinous attack on its own civilians, but you can believe that 19 men hijacked 4 different planes and crashed them in different parts of the U.S. without the military being able to react as soon as the first FRIKKIN' plane hit the first tower, then good for you. Congrats. You're cool.



:applause:

[Scholar]

So you're operating on the assumption that the election was rigged? When anti terrorism sentiments were still strong and Bush's approval ratings were dwindling.


Clearly, the goddam election was rigged. How the hell else would Bush have won?
Do you not recall there were ads on television begging young voters to get Bush out of office? How did this dude still win?
:confusedshrug:
I'm not going to argue this point any more.


I know your next question will be:
So if Bush wanted his approval rating higher, why not claim Osama was killed?
Eye dee kay.
I'm not sure.
I have no inside info. I don't know what the govt. has up their sleeves.
I don't know why it's being claimed Osama died now. Obama doing it to distract people from his birth certificates could be a reason, but it doesn't seem like a big enough reason to do it.
Maybe they've got something planned in a few months/years to get the public to give up more of our "freedoms."

[DeuceWallaces]

Lol so the military was supposed to become aware of hijacked planes and shoot down commercial civilian passenger flights?

[DeuceWallaces]

Clearly, the goddam election was rigged. How the hell else would Bush have won?
Do you not recall there were ads on television begging young voters to get Bush out of office? How did this dude still win?
:confusedshrug:
I'm not going to argue this point any more.


I know your next question will be:
So if Bush wanted his approval rating higher, why not claim Osama was killed?
Eye dee kay.
I'm not sure.
I have no inside info. I don't know what the govt. has up their sleeves.
I don't know why it's being claimed Osama died now. Obama doing it to distract people from his birth certificates could be a reason, but it doesn't seem like a big enough reason to do it.
Maybe they've got something planned in a few months/years to get the public to give up more of our "freedoms."

You need to change your account name.

[andgar923]

I don't know if Osama was dead since 01, or if he truly just got killed.

But... we do know for a FACT that the gov has a history of fabricating shit. The most recent examples are the Jessica being rescued, Tillman coverup, Hussein's statue being pulled down, fabricating of evidence to invade Iraq, false testimony to invade Iraq (the first time) etc.etc..

Just sayin... I don't trust them at their word, and I don't see why everybody should just do so without asking questions or be a bit skeptical.

[Rasheed1]

k let me spell it out for you. If Osama was really dead for ten years, why would Bush let such a strong chip go to waste? It doesn't make sense.


we would have to assume a few things before we could do this logic..

So lets say for the sake of argument that Osama has been dead since 01 and Bush knew it... We would have to then figure out was Bush the guy calling the shots throughout this 'conspiracy' or was he left out of the loop and was just used as a mouthpiece? dont know:confusedshrug: he didnt look like he knew what was going on... but then again he usually looked that way...

its really not enough pieces to these puzzles to do the logic all the way thru to the end.

I sure do remember being told and reading numerous times that he was dead, but who really knows?

I admit, I dont..


Only thing I can do is put a check mark next to the stories I do not believe..

I believe most of this Osama Assasination story... But the part where they dump him in the ocean is a huge red flag to me... Doesnt mean that they didnt kill him on may 1 2011.... just means Im having trouble believing that part of the story

[bagelred]

Lol so the military was supposed to become aware of hijacked planes and shoot down commercial civilian passenger flights?

LOL YES!!!!!

Boy those pilots sure were skilled. They hit their targets 100%!!!! perfectly. It's pretty amazing what flight school can do for you.

[TheReturnofCed]

I wonder how these guys respond to this.

"A senior pakistani intelligence official said..."

Seems legit. :oldlol:

[DropStep]

America isnt that amazing, we didnt put thermite paint into a building or load with explosives without no one noticing.
The thing about conspiracy theorist is they think nothing is the way it is. I believe this world has some shit that is covered up a bit but im sure they are fairly obvious things.


Watergate would of been covered up if this country was that elaborate and amazing.

[Rasheed1]

LOL YES!!!!!


yeah they train specifically for those situations and it is highly strange that they didnt intercept those planes... those planes flew around a long time and that hasnt happened before or since..

official 911 story has got holes like swiss cheese in it.. that story is an insult to people's intelligence...

doesnt mean I can tell you what certainly did happen... But I got money that says the official 911 story is a bogus lie

[shlver]

"A senior pakistani intelligence official said..."

Seems legit. :oldlol:
:oldlol: This is hopeless.

[mcrd101]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=220583&page=2


icanzIIrazor's posts disprove this "9/11 is an inside job" bs.

[Scholar]

Lol so the military was supposed to become aware of hijacked planes and shoot down commercial civilian passenger flights?

Yes! How the hell would they not have known, especially since phone calls were being made from the goddam planes to police/family members/etc. by the passengers?
The military has fighter jets. Those fighter jets can travel faster than the speed of sound. They could've easily reached the second plane.


You need to change your account name.

I like how you have to go to personal attacks to get your "point" across. You're ugly. You need to change your avatar because every time I see that ugly pic of your hideous face with your big ass forehead taking up 3/4 of the picture, I feel sick to my stomach.
It makes me wish the govt. would plan another major terrorist attack, aimed directly at your home. So that way you'll be dead, I won't have to see that ugly avy of yours, and everyone in the world can live comfortably knowing that an ugly POS like yourself is no longer breathing.
That's all I have to say.

[daballa13]

You guys are hilarious. Wake up and get a life. It's the uneducated dolts who never learned critical thinking and spend all day on the internet who propagate this bullshit.

There's very little to gain from saying he's been killed. Most people had forgotten about it, and we're still 2 years from an election. Furthermore, if this was all a conspiracy why wouldn't the organizers of the inside job (Bush Jr's administration) have taken credit for his death in a time frame that made sense. If his intell knew that Osama was dead in '01 then they would have taken credit for it months after 9/11. If they could orchestrate the bombing of several NY sky scrapers and the pentagon then surely they could handle a faux death of a terrorist leader half way across the world who died in some Pakistani cave.

You guys are ****ing idiots.

Yeah, we are the morons indeed. I mean some planes crashing into the top of a building randomly causes the buildings to suddenly drop straight down at free fall speeds. Then there comes tower 7 which magically fell because Brock Lesnar must have tackled it. We are the dumb ones indeed. Enlighten us O' smart one! :roll:

[Scholar]

Watergate would of been covered up if this country was that elaborate and amazing.

:facepalm

It was supposed to be covered up! It just so happened that someone who wasn't in on the scheme caught Nixon and those other idiots involved.

[TheReturnofCed]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=220583&page=2


icanzIIrazor's posts disprove this "9/11 is an inside job" bs.

Wait... are you talking about the icanzIIrazor??? WOW! I guess we should all just drop it, in that case

[KeylessEntry]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=220583&page=2


icanzIIrazor's posts disprove this "9/11 is an inside job" bs.


Yeah he pretty much nails down the coffin on that one. One of the best series posts I have read on ISH in a while. The fact that he used it to slaughter starfaces dumb ass makes it that much better too :oldlol:

[Scholar]

Here's something to take into consideration:

In order to get American involved in the Great War, Britain lied that two of their top secret agents intercepted a German spy who had a briefcase on a NY subway.
Apparently, a frantic chase ensued, the German spy got away, but the Brits were able to take the briefcase.
In the briefcase was a message from Germany to Mexico, exclaiming that if Mexico distracted the U.S. with a phony war in order to avoid having the U.S. get involved in the Great War, Germany would give Mexico all of the land that the U.S. took from it during the Manifest Destiny era.
Look this shit up.
The Brits lied to the entire U.S. govt. to get them involved. Mexico denied any connections and/or conversations with Germany.
The U.S. didn't have a reason to get into the war (at first), but this was a way for the Brits to add a powerful ally to their war efforts.

If one country can lie to another, I don't understand why it's so unbelievable that one country can lie to its own people.

[thatoneblackguy]

Wait... are you talking about the icanzIIrazor??? WOW! I guess we should all just drop it, in that case
This.

Read it, and nothing he said was "oh my goodness". Just people with one sided opinions getting hard because somebody wrote a paragraph full of nothing.

[bagelred]

Yeah he pretty much nails down the coffin on that one. One of the best series posts I have read on ISH in a while. The fact that he used it to slaughter starfaces dumb ass makes it that much better too :oldlol:

:roll: He didn't prove anything. Those are awful arguments.

[Draz]

http://www.informationliberation.com/files/osam_des.jpg

:roll: :roll:

[KeylessEntry]

:roll: He didn't prove anything. Those are awful arguments.

If they are awful arguments, why hasnt anybody refuted them yet? Go through his arguments point by point and explain to me exactly how he is wrong.

[mcrd101]

Wait... are you talking about the icanzIIrazor??? WOW! I guess we should all just drop it, in that case

he's no less credible than the sources you conspiracy theorists cite. he pretty much proves that the conspiracy theorists account of how the towers were blown up is architecturally/physically impossible

[TheReturnofCed]

he's no less credible than the sources you conspiracy theorists cite. he pretty much proves that the conspiracy theorists account of how the towers were blown up is architecturally/physically impossible

Considering there is no central "conspiracy theorist account of how the towers were blown up".... he didn't prove anything. And many architects and engineers claim the official story of how the towers collapsed just wasn't plausible. They're probably more credible than the almighty icanzIIrazor :bowdown: How's the ride swinging from his nuts, bro? Is there at least a good view or are his pubes in the way?

http://ae911truth.org

[thatoneblackguy]

Considering there is no central "conspiracy theorist account of how the towers were blown up".... he didn't prove anything. And many architects and engineers claim the official story of how the towers collapsed just wasn't plausible. They're probably more credible than the almighty icanzIIrazor :bowdown: How's the ride swinging from his nuts, bro? Is there at least a good view or are his pubes in the way?

http://ae911truth.org
This.

I'll take the architects and engineers words over some guy posting on a message board. :oldlol:

[Rasheed1]

he's no less credible than the sources you conspiracy theorists cite. he pretty much proves that the conspiracy theorists account of how the towers were blown up is architecturally/physically impossible


actually no he doesnt...


there are logical answers for those questions he put out... Like the wiring..

it is not physically impossible and there is even interviews with people who worked in the building saying that something fishy was going on in the weeks before 911... from contracted personnel that no-one knew going into the core of the building, to weird fire drills...


Where's Doom when you actually need him to post this stuff...

Im not about to get into a 60 page back & forth insult marathon on here.. I spent too many hrs in past years doing that...too old for that now

but I will say that those questions asked by icanzIIrazor have good answers to them..


like I said earlier.... I bet money that official story is nothing but lies.. there are too many holes in the story

[shlver]

Clearly, the goddam election was rigged. How the hell else would Bush have won?
Do you not recall there were ads on television begging young voters to get Bush out of office? How did this dude still win?
:confusedshrug:
I'm not going to argue this point any more.


I know your next question will be:
So if Bush wanted his approval rating higher, why not claim Osama was killed?
Eye dee kay.
I'm not sure.
I have no inside info. I don't know what the govt. has up their sleeves.
I don't know why it's being claimed Osama died now. Obama doing it to distract people from his birth certificates could be a reason, but it doesn't seem like a big enough reason to do it.
Maybe they've got something planned in a few months/years to get the public to give up more of our "freedoms."
So you're using hindsight to justify your argument...

[niko]

If you were going to do this, make 9-11 happen to cover your desire for a war, would you go to the lengths conspiracy theorists say occurred? Some of the stuff, planting explosives, etc. makes no sense. It makes it less likely the plan goes off, makes it more likely you get caught, and doesn't make it any more likely your plan works. That's what kills me. People argue about WTC 7. WTC 7! No one outside of people who worked in the complex even knew that that ****ing building was. But the plan was to knock down the two towers AND this minor building? It's like planning a murder of a senator and saying you need to kill him, his wife, and the guy who does french fries in his favorite McDonalds.

I wonder what emptiness there is that you have that all this ridiculous shit that you believe fills.

BTW, some of you who believe all this crap were really hard on the birthers. i see no difference. It's believing in whatever way out conspiracy you can find to justify what you want to be true.

[Rasheed1]

BTW, some of you who believe all this crap were really hard on the birthers. i see no difference. It's believing in whatever way out conspiracy you can find to justify what you want to be true.


you see no difference because you do no research.... you think all these stories are the same... Its why I called you a simple minded person the other day..

you think people who believe in one story should believe them all... but that isnt the case...

the birther story was obviously nonsense when you look into it.. 911? now that story has some serious holes in it.

[boozehound]

gotta love a guy whos last active post in an administration was with Carter being considered a "top govt insider"

[bagelred]

You know what? We all need a break from arguing. Let's just relax with a song and cool down.

Here I'll just choose one at random........ok, this looks good:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FApMGh40mY

[boozehound]

This.

I'll take the architects and engineers words over some guy posting on a message board. :oldlol:
you do realize that is an incredibly small minority of experts in those fields, and they have been roundly debunked and discredited in the structural engineering field?

Its like you saying "look, there are 1000 scientists who support creationism!". Of course, most of them arent even involved in biology (or related fields) and are simply fundamentalist Xtians who are computer "scientists" or engineers who dont have any real expertise on evolution. There are about 3 actual practicing biologists who support ID or creationism.

[kentatm]

:facepalm Ofcourse, personal attacks. Typical from brainwashed sheeple. Instead of having a mature discussion, the first emotion slaves feel is anger when faced with something "out of step" they can't wrap their minds around it.


:oldlol:

WTF do you think calling a person "brainwashed sheeple" is?

A term of endearment?

[thatoneblackguy]

:oldlol:

WTF do you think calling a person "brainwashed sheeple" is?

A term of endearment?
That was a general attack. If you felt offended, then you took it personally. I was not directing that towards anyone personally, but if you picked it up and felt offended, well, you get the point.

[IcanzIIravor]

Start on your path to learning. Challenge yourself to actually read up on this stuff:

http://www.infowars.com/top-us-government-insider-bin-laden-died-in-2001-911-a-false-flag/

This is the same guy that said OBL worked for British intelligence and the Mossad, correct?

[kentatm]

That was a general attack. If you felt offended, then you took it personally. I was not directing that towards anyone personally, but if you picked it up and felt offended, well, you get the point.


:facepalm :rolleyes:

Great. Instead of directing it towards one single person, you did it to an entire group.

But really its still the same damn thing.

You are still needlessly insulting people.

If I say Lakers fans are shitheads, do you think any of them are going to buy the excuse of "Oh well it was a general attack not meant for you" or do you think they will treat that as a personal attack?

[thatoneblackguy]

:facepalm :rolleyes:

great. instead of directing it towards one single person, you did it to an entire group.

its still the same damn thing.

If I say Lakers fans are shitheads, do you think any of them are going to buy the excuse of "Oh well it was a general attack not meant for you" or do you think they will treat that as a personal attack?
:facepalm :rolleyes:

I see your point and it makes sense but it doesn't kill the fact that it's a general attack, and it probably is worse than a personal attack, doesn't mean it's not general.

[Jackass18]

I don't know if Osama was dead since 01, or if he truly just got killed.

But... we do know for a FACT that the gov has a history of fabricating shit. The most recent examples are the Jessica being rescued, Tillman coverup, Hussein's statue being pulled down, fabricating of evidence to invade Iraq, false testimony to invade Iraq (the first time) etc.etc..

Just sayin... I don't trust them at their word, and I don't see why everybody should just do so without asking questions or be a bit skeptical.

I don't trust the government, but I also don't trust conspiracy theory wackjobs, either. They all have agendas they want to push.

If Osama has been dead for so long, then who knew about it? How many knew? It's not easy to keep that kind of info secret for so long. However, it's really easy to come up with a conspiracy theory that he was already dead, and that they were just waiting for an opportune time to 'kill' him. It's one of the first things I thought of when I heard the news.

[nathanjizzle]

so your saying this information was said on a radio show? i have a conspiracy theory for your conspiracy theory. Maybe someone pretending to be someone important decided to start a conspiracy theory by calling up on the "dave jones radio show" and spilling bullshit.

you conspiracy theorist are a joke. I hope obama goes on the news and tells you that an asteroid is going to hit your city and you dont leave because you think its just a conspiracy to have people evacuate the city so they can mine gold. But then an asteroid actually ends up landing on your ass.

[InspiredLebowski]

This is basically how these debates go

http://i54.tinypic.com/10r07cl.jpg

[thatoneblackguy]

so your saying this information was said on a radio show? i have a conspiracy theory for your conspiracy theory. Maybe someone pretending to be someone important decided to start a conspiracy theory by calling up on the "dave jones radio show" and spilling bullshit.

you conspiracy theorist are a joke. I hope obama goes on the news and tells you that an asteroid is going to hit your city and you dont leave because you think its just a conspiracy to have people evacuate the city so they can mine gold. But then an asteroid actually ends up landing on your ass.
Research Gulf of Tonkin Incident please.

[tontoz]

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g195/tontoz/not-this-again.jpg




These conspiracy nuts talk about evidence but when that "evidence" comes under any scrutiny at all it vanishes like a fart in the wind.

[deion2123]

you do realize that is an incredibly small minority of experts in those fields, and they have been roundly debunked and discredited in the structural engineering field?

Its like you saying "look, there are 1000 scientists who support creationism!". Of course, most of them arent even involved in biology (or related fields) and are simply fundamentalist Xtians who are computer "scientists" or engineers who dont have any real expertise on evolution. There are about 3 actual practicing biologists who support ID or creationism.
.I can find a whole slew of scientists and engineers pilots who don't buy the 9-11 story

[kentatm]

I don't trust the government, but I also don't trust conspiracy theory wackjobs, either. They all have agendas they want to push.




this

the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Were we told everything about 9/11? Probably not. However, that could be for any number of reasons, not all of them sinister.


As for Osama, I'm sorry but I just don't see any good reason to fake his death at this point in time or think that BushCo would have kept something like that quiet. If anything, his death would have been dropped sometime during the last election to try and give a boost to McCain so that the more corporate friendly (if only slightly these days) Republicans could stay in power.

If it was being kept quiet, right now just seems like a terrible time to release the info. It would have been better served to hold it for closer to the elections.

[thatoneblackguy]

this
The only agenda that is being pushed is truth. If you're against truth I can see why you get upset.

[lefthook00]

The on-going war is why Bush got re-elected, regardless of the conspiracy theory. Osama's death wasn't necessary to get re-elected either way.

I remember a bunch of stories coming out around 9/11 that Osama was dead, or that Osama was going to die soon b/c he was on dialysis.

My question is, if they released the video of the Saddam hanging, why won't they release the Osama pics? Or was the crowd at the hanging not able to be controlled like that(individuals recording the hanging, etc.)?

[kentatm]

The only agenda that is being pushed is truth. If you're against truth I can see why you get upset.


false.

if you are pushing for the truth you can only ask questions until you have rock hard proof to form your conclusion with.

the vast majority of what supposed "truthers" espouse already presupposes the government is lying to us for nefarious means.

b/c of this, people look for things that support what they say and ignore anything that refutes it.

its no different than how the Bush admin went about Iraq. They had already decided SH was a threat that needed dealing with so they focused on evidence that supported that thought while ignoring truckloads that proved it wrong.

[IcanzIIravor]

:roll: He didn't prove anything. Those are awful arguments.

Can you break down what is awful about it?

[IcanzIIravor]

The only agenda that is being pushed is truth. If you're against truth I can see why you get upset.

I have no problem with people questioning things. It's the certainty that you are correct, absent of factual proof that makes me shake my head. A conspiracy of the size of 9/11 would have taken years and involved at least two administrations and almost a decade of planning and training. That is not something that could happen with only a small group of people. We're talking government officials from intel analyst to CIA/FBI operatives and all in between. As many leaks as we have these days and yet a massive operation like 9/11 has not had a single leak?

OBL supposedly dead since 2001? Why would the Bush administration pass on something like this to a Democratic Administration? What would they have to gain by giving President Obama such an arrow in his quiver? Is this part of the conspiracy too? Why didn't President Bush come out with this prior to leaving office to definitively define a key part of his legacy?

[Doomsday Dallas]

As for Osama, I'm sorry but I just don't see any good reason to fake his death at this point in time or think that BushCo would have kept something like that quiet. If anything, his death would have been dropped sometime during the last election to try and give a boost to McCain so that the more corporate friendly (if only slightly these days) Republicans could stay in power.


c'mon... are we still believing this crap?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_xEw_wnCvE_0/SExrlyKBnpI/AAAAAAAAEYQ/As-HIZKfqjc/s400/two_wings_same_bird.jpg

[shlver]

c'mon... are we still believing this crap?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_xEw_wnCvE_0/SExrlyKBnpI/AAAAAAAAEYQ/As-HIZKfqjc/s400/two_wings_same_bird.jpg
And this calls upon a separate conspiracy theory. Seriously, you guys...

[thatoneblackguy]

And this calls upon a separate conspiracy theory. Seriously, you guys...
:roll: You actually believe that there is a difference between the Left and the Right? I'm dying over here .

[Kungfro]

Start on your path to learning. Challenge yourself to actually read up on this stuff:

http://www.infowars.com/top-us-government-insider-bin-laden-died-in-2001-911-a-false-flag/

Why release this information now? Why announce it on a controversial radio show? Sounds pretty fishy to me.

[shlver]

:roll: You actually believe that there is a difference between the Left and the Right? I'm dying over here .
You guys have nothing but crackpot theories that carry no weight. Believe what you want, but it doesn't surprise me that the most intelligent posters on this board dismiss conspiracy theories.

[thatoneblackguy]

You guys have nothing but crackpot theories that carry no weight. Believe what you want, but it doesn't surprise me that the most intelligent posters on this board dismiss conspiracy theories.
Jesus Christ.. you are really hopeless. I am very sorry.

[shlver]

Jesus Christ.. you are really hopeless. I am very sorry.
Yep, you haven't produced any of the "proven documents" you use to validate your claims, just using hindsight to justify them.

[thatoneblackguy]

Yep, you haven't produced any of the "proven documents" you use to validate your claims, just using hindsight to justify them.
:facepalm

[shlver]

:facepalm
Probably one of the most stupid of the lot.

[thatoneblackguy]

Probably one of the most stupid of the lot.
You're not helping your case my friend.

[IcanzIIravor]

:roll: You actually believe that there is a difference between the Left and the Right? I'm dying over here .

Are you referring to corporate interests and lobbyist? If you don't think there is a difference between conservative's and liberal's then you are the one who is not informed. Let me guess, you figure because you don't vote for a main party that means you are more enlightened than those who do?

[thatoneblackguy]

Are you referring to corporate interests and lobbyist? If you don't think there is a difference between conservative's and liberal's then you are the one who is not informed. Let me guess, you figure because you don't vote for a main party that means you are more enlightened than those who do?
I don't vote. Plain and simple.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4147/5192215923_d0c84279de.jpg

[Doomsday Dallas]

Yep, you haven't produced any of the "proven documents" you use to validate your claims, just using hindsight to justify them.



I have a document that might validate my claim:

http://masonicblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/One-dollar-bill.jpg


There it is... Maybe someday you will learn how to read it.


Let me translate it for you,... it reads: "F*CK YOU AMERICA, WE GOT YOU
BY THE BALLS"

[wTFaMonkey]

Don't understand why the government would invite conspiracy theories. Administrations in the past would show the bodies of other people we have killed why not this case. seems fishy to me.

I don't care about heresay. I want absolute proof that this mother****er is dead. If you can't provide evidence, I'm doubting it.

Your telling me that the most wanted man on Earth has just been killed and can't provide one piece of concrete evidence. pshhh

[bagelred]

I don't vote. Plain and simple.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4147/5192215923_d0c84279de.jpg

Hmmmmm........I'd go with left there.....

[thatoneblackguy]

Don't understand why the government would invite conspiracy theories. Administrations in the past would show the bodies of other people we have killed why not this case. seems fishy to me.

I don't care about heresay. I want absolute proof that this mother****er is dead. If you can't provide evidence, I'm doubting it.

Your telling me that the most wanted man on Earth has just been killed and can't provide one piece of concrete evidence. pshhh
The funniest part is, their excuse is "we don't want to offend anybody". While we bomb the shit out of you and kill your whole family, but oh my, now we care about respect.

[Doomsday Dallas]

Hmmmmm........I'd go with left there.....


Nope... gotta go backwards... like everything else in this world.

[-playmaker-]

Don't understand why the government would invite conspiracy theories. Administrations in the past would show the bodies of other people we have killed why not this case. seems fishy to me.

I don't care about heresay. I want absolute proof that this mother****er is dead. If you can't provide evidence, I'm doubting it.

Your telling me that the most wanted man on Earth has just been killed and can't provide one piece of concrete evidence. pshhh
this

I am no conspiracy theorist but I want some god damn proof...or at least pictures and info to convince me

pretty upset I can't get that...

[bagelred]

this

I am no conspiracy theorist .

What does that term even mean anymore? "Conspiracy theorist"...like everyone's afraid to be called that.

If it means "researchers alternative explanations to the non factural supported gov't stories", then that's a good thing.

We need to get rid of that CT term. It means nothing. People like to throw that term as if we are talking about space aliens or something.

[Rasheed1]

Are you referring to corporate interests and lobbyist? If you don't think there is a difference between conservative's and liberal's then you are the one who is not informed. Let me guess, you figure because you don't vote for a main party that means you are more enlightened than those who do?


there is no difference... the wars continue no matter who the president is or who controls the Congress.. We support israel, and Pakistan and Saudis and China no matter who the president is

its obvious...

[wTFaMonkey]

The funniest part is, their excuse is "we don't want to offend anybody". While we bomb the shit out of you and kill your whole family, but oh my, now we care about respect.

:oldlol: :oldlol:

Bunch of bullshit. I feel sorry for the people that actually believe that.

[-playmaker-]

What does that term even mean anymore? "Conspiracy theorist"...like everyone's afraid to be called that.

If it means "researchers alternative explanations to the non factural supported gov't stories", then that's a good thing.

We need to get rid of that CT term. It means nothing. People like to throw that term as if we are talking about space aliens or something.
it means I just want some f*ckin pictures...

I don't think I am a goverment slave or anything...I don't think the US is nazi Germany...I don't live in fear of my own country


I just want some pitures, cause they can lie every now and then...

[Patrick Chewing]

The funniest part is, their excuse is "we don't want to offend anybody". While we bomb the shit out of you and kill your whole family, but oh my, now we care about respect.

Bingo. It's as simple as those two sentences you just wrote. No need for a whole lengthy explanation as to why and what if. Thanks.

[bagelred]

Can you break down what is awful about it?

I'd have to go through point by point, but you make all these strange assumptions and beliefs in your own mind what must be true.

What I and many others do is simply look at evidence presented to us. And use logical reasoning to determine if official story is wrong.....

-Why was molten metal found at the base of each building?
- Why did WTC7 fall down at freefall speed?
- Why are there no videos of the planes hitting pentagon?
- Why did hundreds of eyewitnesses hear explosions in the WTC?
- Why did the WTC towers simply crumble into a pile of rubble and fine powder without any explosive material?
- Why did no Air Force pilots intercept any of the 4 flights?
- How did everyone know to evacuate away from WTC7 when there were no visual signs of collapse?
- Why did the BBC report the WTC7 having collapsed 1/2 hour before it acutally did?
- Why were traces of explosive materials called thermite found at WTC?
- Why did eyewitnesses interviewed at Pentagon plot out a completely different flight path than the official story?
- Why did the plane "disintegrate" into the Pentagon with no engines, wings, etc. on the front lawn?
- Why did the FBI confiscate videos at local gas stations 5 minutes after the Pentagon crash?
- Why are "squibs" coming out of the WTC showing explosive charges?
- Why do all 3 WTC collapses look EXACTLY like controlled demolitions?
- How is it the "terrorists" who trained for pilots licenses could barely fly small planes, yet performed the most sophisticated manuevers on 747's with exact precision?
- Why were 8 or more hijackers reported ALIVE after they were supposedly killed on the planes?
- How were cell phone calls made on the planes when tests showed that should have been almost impossible?
- How did the most protected building on the planet, the Pentagon, get hit with no defense whatsoever.
- How did everyone know the next day so QUICKLY that it was Osama Bin Laden?


There are hundreds and hundreds more questions like this....on and on and on.......some big ones, some smaller ones, some direct evidence, some circumstantial......just over and over. Staring us right in the face. Stuff that happened before 9/11. ON the day itself. And of course, everything after.

Yet we are just crazy conspiracy theorists.

[Doomsday Dallas]

What does that term even mean anymore? "Conspiracy theorist"...like everyone's afraid to be called that.

If it means "researchers alternative explanations to the non factural supported gov't stories", then that's a good thing.

We need to get rid of that CT term. It means nothing. People like to throw that term as if we are talking about space aliens or something.



No... let me tell you what it means...

Conspiracy Theorists do not underestimate the power of secret societies.


-playmaker- is terrified of researching them.


What sucks is that the word "freemason" or "illuminati" does not exist in
any the History Books they gave us in Grade School or College... I had
to discover that $hit on my own.

So now... If you decide to speak about "Skull & Bones" or "bohemian Grove"...
You are a nut-job conspiracy theorist.


I mean... let's ignore the fact that George Bush Sr. dug up the skull of Geronimo
and drank blood out of it... and instead let's point out how crazy I am for even
bringing this subject to your attention.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq5CP2iFmXk

Oh hey look... a youtube video!!! Or is it a CNN special report (MSM)?

Which one is it, because I need to remember that anything on youtube
needs to be discredited... but if it's on CNN it's the truth.
What a double edged sword I have here.


Well at least we know Geronimo didn't get a proper burial.

[IcanzIIravor]

there is no difference... the wars continue no matter who the president is or who controls the Congress.. We support israel, and Pakistan and Saudis and China no matter who the president is

its obvious...

There are some policies that people can agree on, but there are plenty of policies that people can disagree on. You see that on this board all the time. I disagree with going into Libya and I know conservative's who agree with me, yet I am indifferent to the abortion debate while the same conservatives are passionate about wanting abortions outlawed. Does the agreement on Libya trump the disagreements and mean we are on the same page and with one universal goal in mind? There are some pretty huge differences in beliefs in the USA and the world in general.

[Jackass18]

This guy doesn't say anything about 9/11 for all these years, but speaks up after Osama's death? What, 9/11 is no big deal, but the possible faking of the death of Osama is such a huge deal that he finally felt the need to speak up? If the guy is really concerned, then what took him so long, and why nothing more than an interview for a radio show? Why hasn't he been out there crusading against the nefarious government?

Some people act like it's easy to keep these things secret for so long amongst so many people, oh and like everyone involved is going to agree with these plans and go along with them.

[Rasheed1]

There are some policies that people can agree on, but there are plenty of policies that people can disagree on. You see that on this board all the time. I disagree with going into Libya and I know conservative's who agree with me, yet I am indifferent to the abortion debate while the same conservatives are passionate about wanting abortions outlawed. Does the agreement on Libya trump the disagreements and mean we are on the same page and with one universal goal in mind? There are some pretty huge differences in beliefs in the USA and the world in general.


Im saying that you can tell that there is no difference between the parties specifically when you look at our foreign policy..


thats how you can tell. A system where the parties were different would very quickly show itself through our foreign policy.... We wouldnt have Obama coming in and smoothly continuing the Bush admin's wars and the same old alliances that got us into the situation we're in.

[IcanzIIravor]

I'd have to go through point by point, but you make all these strange assumptions and beliefs in your own mind what must be true.

What I and many others do is simply look at evidence presented to us. And use logical reasoning to determine if official story is wrong.....

-Why was molten metal found at the base of each building?
- Why did WTC7 fall down at freefall speed?
- Why are there no videos of the planes hitting pentagon?
- Why did hundreds of eyewitnesses hear explosions in the WTC?
- Why did the WTC towers simply crumble into a pile of rubble and fine powder without any explosive material?
- Why did no Air Force pilots intercept any of the 4 flights?
- How did everyone know to evacuate away from WTC7 when there were no visual signs of collapse?
- Why did the BBC report the WTC7 having collapsed 1/2 hour before it acutally did?
- Why were traces of explosive materials called thermite found at WTC?
- Why did eyewitnesses interviewed at Pentagon plot out a completely different flight path than the official story?
- Why did the plane "disintegrate" into the Pentagon with no engines, wings, etc. on the front lawn?
- Why did the FBI confiscate videos at local gas stations 5 minutes after the Pentagon crash?
- Why are "squibs" coming out of the WTC showing explosive charges?
- Why do all 3 WTC collapses look EXACTLY like controlled demolitions?
- How is it the "terrorists" who trained for pilots licenses could barely fly small planes, yet performed the most sophisticated manuevers on 747's with exact precision?
- Why were 8 or more hijackers reported ALIVE after they were supposedly killed on the planes?
- How were cell phone calls made on the planes when tests showed that should have been almost impossible?
- How did the most protected building on the planet, the Pentagon, get hit with no defense whatsoever.
- How did everyone know the next day so QUICKLY that it was Osama Bin Laden?


There are hundreds and hundreds more questions like this....on and on and on.......some big ones, some smaller ones, some direct evidence, some circumstantial......just over and over. Staring us right in the face. Stuff that happened before 9/11. ON the day itself. And of course, everything after.

Yet we are just crazy conspiracy theorists.

I'm researching your post right now. Have you read the NIST report? How do you explain the plane wreckage at the Pentagon and the lack of missile wreckage? If a plane did not hit the Pentagon what happened to the plane and the people on board it?

http://wtc.nist.gov/NCSTAR1/PDF/NCSTAR%201A.pdf

Here is another take on it as well.

http://www.structuremag.org/Archives/2007-11/SF-WTC7-Gilsanz-Nov07.pdf

[niko]

I'd have to go through point by point, but you make all these strange assumptions and beliefs in your own mind what must be true.

What I and many others do is simply look at evidence presented to us. And use logical reasoning to determine if official story is wrong.....

-Why was molten metal found at the base of each building?
- Why did WTC7 fall down at freefall speed?
- Why are there no videos of the planes hitting pentagon?
- Why did hundreds of eyewitnesses hear explosions in the WTC?
- Why did the WTC towers simply crumble into a pile of rubble and fine powder without any explosive material?
- Why did no Air Force pilots intercept any of the 4 flights?
- How did everyone know to evacuate away from WTC7 when there were no visual signs of collapse?
- Why did the BBC report the WTC7 having collapsed 1/2 hour before it acutally did?
- Why were traces of explosive materials called thermite found at WTC?
- Why did eyewitnesses interviewed at Pentagon plot out a completely different flight path than the official story?
- Why did the plane "disintegrate" into the Pentagon with no engines, wings, etc. on the front lawn?
- Why did the FBI confiscate videos at local gas stations 5 minutes after the Pentagon crash?
- Why are "squibs" coming out of the WTC showing explosive charges?
- Why do all 3 WTC collapses look EXACTLY like controlled demolitions?
- How is it the "terrorists" who trained for pilots licenses could barely fly small planes, yet performed the most sophisticated manuevers on 747's with exact precision?
- Why were 8 or more hijackers reported ALIVE after they were supposedly killed on the planes?
- How were cell phone calls made on the planes when tests showed that should have been almost impossible?
- How did the most protected building on the planet, the Pentagon, get hit with no defense whatsoever.
- How did everyone know the next day so QUICKLY that it was Osama Bin Laden?


There are hundreds and hundreds more questions like this....on and on and on.......some big ones, some smaller ones, some direct evidence, some circumstantial......just over and over. Staring us right in the face. Stuff that happened before 9/11. ON the day itself. And of course, everything after.

Yet we are just crazy conspiracy theorists.

Some of these things we've discussed and have reasonable explanations but you never remove them from the list. And some are just stupid. YOu can make cel phone calls on a plane. Try it. As long as you are not at 30,000 plus feet, once you are lower in range of the towers. THings like that. YOu are VERY quick to take anything that someone says the answer is strange and agree.

[niko]

I'm being totally serious here, what is the conspiracy. Not the 300 small things people like to pick on, with WTC 7 and such. I mean, what is the conspiracy. Like

Bush paid 9 dudes to crash planes into the WTC but shot down the one at the pentagon because WHAT.

People throw out small coincidences, etc. but that's not what i want. I want the cohesive thing you think is going on. NOT what you consider proof. But what the conspiracy is.

Bush masterminded X in order to do Y and he did these things in this way because it helped by Z.

I'm just curious. I often ask and people say "BUILDING 7! WHY DID IT FALL SO FAST?" I don't give a ****. Let's assume it did fall suspiciously fast. Why did they knock it down in terms of the greater conspiracy?

Let's avoid arguing on proof, there are lots of other threads for that.

[Rasheed1]

there isnt 1 conspiracy.. there are many...

I personally wouldnt bother trying to speculate further than what you can logically prove..

there is enough that doesnt make sense to the degree that is a playground for folks who wanna speculate... but one thing is obvious... the official story is BS lies... thats one thing everyone in those groups can agree on..

I leave at that personally...

[joe]

I'm being totally serious here, what is the conspiracy. Not the 300 small things people like to pick on, with WTC 7 and such. I mean, what is the conspiracy. Like

Bush paid 9 dudes to crash planes into the WTC but shot down the one at the pentagon because WHAT.

People throw out small coincidences, etc. but that's not what i want. I want the cohesive thing you think is going on. NOT what you consider proof. But what the conspiracy is.

Bush masterminded X in order to do Y and he did these things in this way because it helped by Z.

I'm just curious. I often ask and people say "BUILDING 7! WHY DID IT FALL SO FAST?" I don't give a ****. Let's assume it did fall suspiciously fast. Why did they knock it down in terms of the greater conspiracy?

Let's avoid arguing on proof, there are lots of other threads for that.

Basically to rally American patriotism, allowing the government to declare a "war on terror," which is a war without a clear enemy or clear finish line. This collective patriotism allowed us to start 2 wars in the middle east and spend countless military dollars. Obviously you can see how this would benefit the military industrial complex, and those involved in oil production.

Furthermore, the war on terror has been used as an excuse to pass freedom-restricting legislation like the Patriot Act.. which can be used to stifle dissent against the government.

Not saying I believe the government knocked down the towers. I don't even care about it anymore because there's more important things to worry about. But best case scenario, it's clear the politicians capitalized on the tragedy of 9/11.

[Doomsday Dallas]

Do you know how long it would take me to answer this question?

I've been on the OTC for several years now discussing each aspect
of 9/11 in fine detail...

When dealing with the 9/11 conspiracy... we must first examine
what the Government has told us.

I know I catch a lot of $hit for posting so many youtube videos,
and some posters even think because I post so many youtube
videos I have no thoughts of my own (Deuce)...

But pick up Jim Marrs Book the Terror Conspiracy

http://innerself.com/market/images/book_covers/TheTerrorConspiracyDecepti175127_f.jpg


I had the pleasure to speak to this guy on the internet and he
seems to have a good grasp on "conspiracy world" as you guys
have chosen to label it.


Anyway... Here are his thoughts on the subject and they sort of reflect
my own:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6H0X-7sDwZE

[IcanzIIravor]

Some of these things we've discussed and have reasonable explanations but you never remove them from the list. And some are just stupid. YOu can make cel phone calls on a plane. Try it. As long as you are not at 30,000 plus feet, once you are lower in range of the towers. THings like that. YOu are VERY quick to take anything that someone says the answer is strange and agree.

This is an excellent site to explore.

http://www.debunking911.com/index.html

[Draz]

- Why did no Air Force pilots intercept any of the 4 flights? -Bagelred

This has me thinking. If America, had the ability to (President) to stop the planes before hitting the towers after knowing it's been hijacked, they were able to shoot the planes down above water before even hovering over NYC, would (President Bush) have done it?

What about you? Would you have been in favor of taking out those planes? Lets be unrealistic here, if that was to happen, we wouldn't of known where exactly those planes were going but just a hint of what was going to happen. Either crashing, because I'm dam sure there's no exiting or quitting the plan after it happens.

If (Bush) were to give special orders to take those planes out, safely above water, taking lives of everyone on board, would this have been the most horrible idea ever, or the toughest most remarkable orders in American history? Would this have prevented our breakout of war? Think about the possibilities.

Honestly, if we could go back in time right now & take out those planes before it began heading to Manhattan, I'm sure there's thousands of people who would agree with the Presidents decision. What about now? What if a plane was hijacked, would you be in favor of Obama giving those orders before a tragedy hits the Nation again?

[Draz]

I'd have to go through point by point, but you make all these strange assumptions and beliefs in your own mind what must be true.

What I and many others do is simply look at evidence presented to us. And use logical reasoning to determine if official story is wrong.....

-Why was molten metal found at the base of each building?
- Why did WTC7 fall down at freefall speed?
- Why are there no videos of the planes hitting pentagon?
- Why did hundreds of eyewitnesses hear explosions in the WTC?
- Why did the WTC towers simply crumble into a pile of rubble and fine powder without any explosive material?
- Why did no Air Force pilots intercept any of the 4 flights?
- How did everyone know to evacuate away from WTC7 when there were no visual signs of collapse?
- Why did the BBC report the WTC7 having collapsed 1/2 hour before it acutally did?
- Why were traces of explosive materials called thermite found at WTC?
- Why did eyewitnesses interviewed at Pentagon plot out a completely different flight path than the official story?
- Why did the plane "disintegrate" into the Pentagon with no engines, wings, etc. on the front lawn?
- Why did the FBI confiscate videos at local gas stations 5 minutes after the Pentagon crash?
- Why are "squibs" coming out of the WTC showing explosive charges?
- Why do all 3 WTC collapses look EXACTLY like controlled demolitions?
- How is it the "terrorists" who trained for pilots licenses could barely fly small planes, yet performed the most sophisticated manuevers on 747's with exact precision?
- Why were 8 or more hijackers reported ALIVE after they were supposedly killed on the planes?
- How were cell phone calls made on the planes when tests showed that should have been almost impossible?
- How did the most protected building on the planet, the Pentagon, get hit with no defense whatsoever.
- How did everyone know the next day so QUICKLY that it was Osama Bin Laden?


There are hundreds and hundreds more questions like this....on and on and on.......some big ones, some smaller ones, some direct evidence, some circumstantial......just over and over. Staring us right in the face. Stuff that happened before 9/11. ON the day itself. And of course, everything after.

Yet we are just crazy conspiracy theorists.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5904032#post5904032

[-playmaker-]

Cheney had the ability to shoot down the one headed for the Pentagon and he told them to stand down...

this is on tape I believe...

he was in the Pentagon himself in an underground bunker...safe



the truthers like to point that as some sort of evidence he was in on it, but I would have done the same thing...very hard to give the order to shoot down a plane full of people...

[Draz]

I heard of this to. What if they went out with these orders? Also, the Vice President can give orders like this without confirmation from the President himself?

[Doomsday Dallas]

Here is an even more important question: Why wasn't the Pentagon
warned about this incoming flight?

A Pentagon survivor who has now been labeled as an "attention gold digging
conspiracy whore" otherwise known as April Gallup has decided to try to
hold these @ssholes accountable.... Doesn't look like she is going to have any
success though.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread617635/pg1

Do you know about the April Gallup testimony?

[Rasheed1]

the procedure is damn near standard..... they're supposed to scramble fighter jets within 5 minutes of knowing planes are hijacked... They intercept the plane and fly along side the plane and order it to land.. I think they even procedures to force planes out of the sky... But they will shoot planes out of the sky if they have to...

It isnt a moment where Cheney should be handwringing

the plane is headed for the pentagon, for crying out loud :oldlol:

this is a grave national security crisis... they have to shoot it down..

[-playmaker-]

I heard of this to. What if they went out with these orders? Also, the Vice President can give orders like this without confirmation from the President himself?
I believe that yes, he had the power to give those orders...but he didn't want to do it...



if they had gone through with the orders, then maybe a burning plane falls on an even more populated area...

it isn't an easy order to give...


there was also the chance it goes on to hit nothing...although probably safe to assume it was going to hit something

[Doomsday Dallas]

This is an excellent site to explore.

http://www.debunking911.com/index.html


this is an excellent book to read:

http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/bestsellers-2007/3085-1.jpg



:oldlol:

[Rasheed1]

that was a veteran move..

[Draz]

Mhm. That's pretty insane. If he had gone out with those orders, the entire future would of changed, which freaks me out so much.

[Doomsday Dallas]

But why doesn't Operation Vigilant Warrior and Operation Vigilant Guardian
give you reason to speculate?

Do you think those two training exercises happen everyday?

[vinsane01]

It's easy to say that now since we know what happened. Go back to 01 and think of yourself not knowing what is going on and the potential tragedy that may ensue. The only way you would agree to intercept the planes is if there's conclusive proof that the planes are going to hit a populated area. Is it easy to predict? Maybe. Im assuming they have the technology to do so. A commercial airplance runs at what? 500 to 600 mph? It's not like a car where one can steer that easily. But like playmaker said it's hard to shoot down an airplane full of hundreds of innocent civilians. Whoever makes that call will be subjected to criticism no matter the outcome.

[Draz]

But why doesn't Operation Vigilant Warrior and Operation Vigilant Guardian
give you reason to speculate?

Do you think those two training exercises happen everyday?

Those were the operations they sent all the fighter jets to a special training, leaving I think 5 fighter jets to protect the United States, correct?

[Doomsday Dallas]

that was a veteran move..


Have you ever watched his presentation?... It's wonderful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbY5_qtz83M
Debunking 9/11 Debunking - Let's Get Empirical - Pt.1 of 9

[TheGreatDeraj]

Cheney had the ability to shoot down the one headed for the Pentagon and he told them to stand down...

this is on tape I believe...

he was in the Pentagon himself in an underground bunker...safe



the truthers like to point that as some sort of evidence he was in on it, but I would have done the same thing...very hard to give the order to shoot down a plane full of people...

They didn't have a problem with shooting down flight 93...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6Xoxaf1Al0

The video is only 19 seconds...was it a slip of tongue or what?

[Godzuki]

the likelihood you could get a secret like this covered up from the Bush Admin to the Obama Admin is 0. It would be like 2 arch enemies looking out for one another.


I also think the likelihood Bin Ladin is still alive is 0 too. Obama and the White House couldn't get away with a lie on this level, and it makes no sense at all to lie when you don't have to. Either way it makes no sense with how gigantic of a risk they would be taking to lie about him being dead to the world.


Its the same reason why i don't believe Area51 has anything special. No way some secret like that could pass thru different Administrations without disclosure. Not from Bush to the Obama one at least.


Conspiracies are too easy to think up when there are dots to connect.

HOWEVER i do believe in 2012 being the end of the world!

[Doomsday Dallas]

Those were the operations they sent all the fighter jets to a special training, leaving I think 5 fighter jets to protect the United States, correct?


Yea... even the pilots were confused if they were doing a training exercise
or a real live event.

"Is this real world or is this an exercise?"



And what is even more scary is the same exact thing happened with the 7/7
London Bus Bombings:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKvkhe3rqtc

Watch That^^^ How can you not become a "conspiracy theorist"
when being confronted with those FACTS?

[niko]

there isnt 1 conspiracy.. there are many...

I personally wouldnt bother trying to speculate further than what you can logically prove..

there is enough that doesnt make sense to the degree that is a playground for folks who wanna speculate... but one thing is obvious... the official story is BS lies... thats one thing everyone in those groups can agree on..

I leave at that personally...
what is funny is i don't think we disagree, i think i think a fairly simple thing happened (Bush allowed the attacks to occur and took advantage) whereas others things it's this convuluted mess involving 9,000 steps and not only that, still going on as even know it involves the Osama killing.

[Jasper]

-

Honestly, if we could go back in time right now & take out those planes before it began heading to Manhattan, I'm sure there's thousands of people who would agree with the Presidents decision. What about now? What if a plane was hijacked, would you be in favor of Obama giving those orders before a tragedy hits the Nation again?

President Reagon would of had satalites set up for Star Wars...

tell me he was dumb :no:

We would not have drones taking out Muslim ratical's .... we would just laser them :oldlol:

[Doomsday Dallas]

They didn't have a problem with shooting down flight 93...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6Xoxaf1Al0

The video is only 19 seconds...was it a slip of tongue or what?



I'll say this about Flight 93... it certainly didn't nose-dive in that field the way
we were told it did.

I'd like to believe we shot it down and have done our best to keep it a secret...
But that plane definitely didn't nose-dive in that field... I've concluded that much.

[Rasheed1]

It's easy to say that now since we know what happened. Go back to 01 and think of yourself not knowing what is going on and the potential tragedy that may ensue. The only way you would agree to intercept the planes is if there's conclusive proof that the planes are going to hit a populated area. Is it easy to predict? Maybe. Im assuming they have the technology to do so. A commercial airplance runs at what? 500 to 600 mph? It's not like a car where one can steer that easily. But like playmaker said it's hard to shoot down an airplane full of hundreds of innocent civilians. Whoever makes that call will be subjected to criticism no matter the outcome.



the sh*t's on radar .... If you listen to the testimony of the guy who said Cheney gave the stand down order, he describes the situation where cheney has another official announcing to him "5,000 km, 4,000, do your stand down orders still stand sir?" and cheney flips on him like "did I say different?"

They could tell the plane was gonna hit the pentagon... the friggin pentagon has turrents on it just for that type of situation...

[Doomsday Dallas]

whereas others think it's this convuluted mess involving 9,000 steps and not only that, still going on as even know it involves the Osama killing.


Yep... that's me.

And I'm not ashamed to admit that.

Sorry. That's just the way I roll.



These MotherF*ckers are really good at Chess... They would destroy Bobby Fischer.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_9XzDGnDAGDc/TOILy3huDjI/AAAAAAAAAUQ/ZtgHM2J7xrc/s1600/grand-chessboard.jpg

[Doomsday Dallas]

the sh*t's on radar .... If you listen to the testimony of the guy who said Cheney gave the stand down order, he describes the situation where cheney has another official announcing to him "5,000 km, 4,000, do your stand down orders still stand sir?" and cheney flips on him like "did I say different?"

They could tell the plane was gonna hit the pentagon... the friggin pentagon has turrents on it just for that type of situation...


Norman Mineta... how could you forget that guy's name?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Mineta


He's got a little 9/11 section on his wikipedia page.

[IcanzIIravor]

this is an excellent book to read:

http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/bestsellers-2007/3085-1.jpg



:oldlol:

The reviews for that book are interesting to say the least. I'll have to check out the youtube stuff of his. I find it intriguing his expertise is in theology. I'll check out the links when I get off work though since I can't see them here.

[Draz]

So, the question still stands. Would you guys want the order to kill those innocent people in the plane to save other life, because they would of died anyways?

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

Mhm. That's pretty insane. If he had gone out with those orders, the entire future would of changed, which freaks me out so much.
how many people died in the pentagon?

[Doomsday Dallas]

The reviews for that book are interesting to say the least. I'll have to check out the youtube stuff of his. I find it intriguing his expertise is in theology. I'll check out the links when I get off work though since I can't see them here.


Can't trust anybody these days:


Another mover and shaker, David Ray Griffin, is the author of the book, The New Pearl Harbor,
beloved by many in the 911 Truth Movement as providing a definitive 911 skeptics account, even discussing
various physical evidence claims pointing to 9-11 being an inside job. Writing his book's forward is Richard Falk.
They're often a team, David Ray and Richard, both one world government aficionados (and I don't know about you,
but I do admit to finding one world gov't advocates creepy) who work on the same projects and write for the
same publications advocating a world government solution. Richard Falk, in fact, is a member of the CFR,
the Council on Foreign Relations. He's worked on new world order projects for the CFR, like the World Order
Models Project financed by the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and the Rockefeller Foundation.
What the hell is one to make of a CFR member wanting to expose 9-11? Another frequent writing/project
partner of Griffin is John Cobb, former senior economist for the World Bank. Griffin and Cobb founded
the Center for Process Studies which received support from the Rockefeller Foundation. Griffin and Cobb
have also co-authored some materials with Club of Rome member Herman Daly. Griffin, himself, referred
to as the "well known theologian", has some unusual ideas about how humanity should think about God
and apparently wants us to revert to some type of mysticism on our path to the new world order.
Here's an interview of him talking about it: http://www.context.org/ICLIB/IC24/Griffin.htm


http://mysite.verizon.net/vze25x9n/id24.html


One of the most fascinating articles I've ever read on the internet... Sometimes
it makes me wonder if exposing 9/11 is part of the agenda.

[Doomsday Dallas]

how many people died in the pentagon?


Off the top of my head? I think it was close to 80 people (not including
the passengers).

Let me try to verify that piece of info.



edit: I'm getting an approximate answer of 125.

[Draz]

It's a hard choice to make, regardless. What bugs me out is, why isn't there any video of the boeing hitting the pentagon if it's such a important place? I remember back when they showed videos, it was just one camera & video recorded, nothing else.

[IcanzIIravor]

Can't trust anybody these days:




http://mysite.verizon.net/vze25x9n/id24.html


One of the most fascinating articles I've ever read on the internet... Sometimes
it makes me wonder if exposing 9/11 is part of the agenda.

It's a fascinating subject regardless of which side you are on. Check out this debate site I found. It's an intriguing debate on the subject.

http://www.debate.org/debates/WTC-7-was-a-controlled-demolition/1/

[Jackass18]

Does anyone want to explain to me how they could get so many people to go along with such a plan like 9/11? If someone came to me with that type of plan, then I'd be outraged and would expose it.

[TheGreatDeraj]

Does anyone want to explain to me how they could get so many people to go along with such a plan like 9/11? If someone came to me with that type of plan, then I'd be outraged and would expose it.

Then you would be a crazed conspiracy theorist lunatic

[-playmaker-]

Annoying conspiracy theory nut

:oldlol:

custom titles can be hilarious...

[Jackass18]

Then you would be a crazed conspiracy theorist lunatic

If I'd stop it, then that's all that matters.

[niko]

If I'd stop it, then that's all that matters.
And afterwards, since everyone hated Bush, you'd be super uber hero. But no one because everyone involved is so totally into it they would never tell.

A lot of the "list items" people put are bullshit too. Suspicuous work in the buildings, etc. - i knew a lot of people who worked there and we used to talk about these rumors and stuff when they came up. Nobody had any idea. It's always some loser, it's never "president of lehman noticed strange work, it's always some janitor who makse $20k a year and wants attention. People always doubt why the buildings fell down as if the plane hitting them wasn't enough. I remember the plane hitting and i was far away. It was a bad ass thing, like BOOOM. It hit that ****ing building HARD. At the time if you told me the building would fall down later, i wouldn't have been surprised. WHen it did, people weren't questioning how it could happen. Days after, nothing. Later on, when everyone realized Bush was using 9-11 as his license to do whatever he wanted, the crazies all came out because you could find an audience for anything you said.

WTC 7 is always the stupidest thing to me, there is no way, absolutely 100% no ****ing way (ZERO) that someone would plan to knock down WTC 1, WTC 2 and SEVEN. I worked there (years before) and i didn't know where seven was. It's like the Tito of the site. The fact people include it in the conspiracy is asinine to such a level.

[bagelred]

Here's where your argument goes from slightly stupid (and that's being nice by the way) to hard core idiot.
You say we shouldn't believe the government. They aren't credible, or whatever it is you believe. So what makes these other outlets for information so much more credible? Do you think they don't have a reason to lie? They do after all make a ton of money from conspiracy theorists. People have written conspiracy books about JFK when there is video tape proof that everything they're based around is complete bullshit. Idiots believe that fire isn't hot enough to melt the steel in the towers when there was a plain full of jetfuel rammed into it. Maybe we're being told what to believe, but you're just being told what you want to hear, and if you believe it I really feel sorry for you.

Because I'm not listening to what I'm being told, I'm being shown evidence. Eyewitnesses, scientific evidence, expert testimony, investigatative work...etc. etc. And if the argument presented to me is convincing...just like a jury listens to arguments, and weighs evidence....then I'll believe that argument.

And then if what's presented is well documented, and makes logical sense, and has proof, and confirms to the laws of physics, and is backed up by sources. etc. etc.....then I believe it....because of a preponderence of the evidence in that favor.

YOU and most other people listen to what the mass media is telling you, what the gov't says, and say "OK, that's what it is." The gov't and media are very powerful influences. Authoritative. If they say something, it must be true. In many people minds.

MYSELF and alot of other people listen to alternative theories, and will believe that to be true...IF the evidence is there to support it.

Make sense?

But you aren't open to a logical discussion about it, you aren't open to watching videos, and reading articles on teh subject, and weighing the evidence that's out there to form a conclusion on what makes most sense. We say "here!! take a look at this. read for yourself." And you simply denounce it as silly conspiracy theory.

OR if we start to present something, you take pieces of evidence one at a time..."oh, this could be that" or "there's probably another explanation", without looking at all the evidence in its entirety.

The earth is not flat, the earth is round.....everyone laughed at that too. No one would look at the evidence to support it.
The Sun doesn't revolve around the Earth, its vice versa. Everyone laughted at that too....even with evidence to support it.
9/11 was not done by Bin Laden and 19 random hijackers. It was an inside job. Laugh at that. Even when all the evidence is out there for you to understand that, you'll still laugh at that. Feel good in what you know.

[IcanzIIravor]

Because I'm not listening to what I'm being told, I'm being shown evidence. Eyewitnesses, scientific evidence, expert testimony, investigatative work...etc. etc. And if the argument presented to me is convincing...just like a jury listens to arguments, and weighs evidence....then I'll believe that argument.

And then if what's presented is well documented, and makes logical sense, and has proof, and confirms to the laws of physics, and is backed up by sources. etc. etc.....then I believe it....because of a preponderence of the evidence in that favor.

YOU and most other people listen to what the mass media is telling you, what the gov't says, and say "OK, that's what it is." The gov't and media are very powerful influences. Authoritative. If they say something, it must be true. In many people minds.

MYSELF and alot of other people listen to alternative theories, and will believe that to be true...IF the evidence is there to support it.

Make sense?

But you aren't open to a logical discussion about it, you aren't open to watching videos, and reading articles on teh subject, and weighing the evidence that's out there to form a conclusion on what makes most sense. We say "here!! take a look at this. read for yourself." And you simply denounce it as silly conspiracy theory.

OR if we start to present something, you take pieces of evidence one at a time..."oh, this could be that" or "there's probably another explanation", without looking at all the evidence in its entirety.

The earth is not flat, the earth is round.....everyone laughed at that too. No one would look at the evidence to support it.
The Sun doesn't revolve around the Earth, its vice versa. Everyone laughted at that too....even with evidence to support it.
9/11 was not done by Bin Laden and 19 random hijackers. It was an inside job. Laugh at that. Even when all the evidence is out there for you to understand that, you'll still laugh at that. Feel good in what you know.

Why do you say 9/11 was not done by AQ? I have not seen any evidence showing that to be true. I've seen no evidence showing the towers where rigged with explosives. You've presented theories which are nice, but they are not backed up with evidence. If AQ had nothing to do with 9/11 why would they claim responsibility? If AQ had nothing to do with 9/11 then why have they never come out and said they had no hand in it? You say there is no way AQ could have done this, yet you seem to overlook their hand in other attacks around the globe. Are you also saying they had nothing to do with the following, many of which took long term planning to carry out:

1993 WTC bombing
1993 Bombay bombing
1998 US Embassy bombing in Nairobi Kenya
1998 Dar-el-Salaam bombing in Tanzania
2000 USS Cole bombing
2002 Bali bombing
2003 Instanbul bombing
2004 Super Ferry bombing in the Philippines
2004 Madrid Train bombings
2005 London bombings
2005 SHARM EL-SHEIKH BOMBINGS
2005 AMMAN HOTEL BOMBINGS
2006 MUMBAI TRAIN BOMBINGS
2007 ALGIERS BOMBING
2008 KANDAHAR BOMBING
2008 DANISH EMBASSY BOMBING

link (http://blogs.denverpost.com/captured/2011/05/03/from-the-archive-a-photo-timeline-of-al-qaeda-attacks/4432/)

You're saying they are smart enough to plot and train people to carry out these attacks, but they are too stupid to ever be able to carry out 9/11? How much studying have you done of the Afghan/Soviet war and the rise of AQ? I understand you're suspicious of the main stream press so link me to what you have read up on about these two subjects so I can read what you have studied.

[bagelred]

I really don't think you got what I said at all. You're getting all this information from sources that aren't credible, or eye witness testimony, neither of which I'm willing to believe. I've read some of this stuff, and pretty much every thing is easily disproved, especially the "video evidence stuff" like World trade center 7 collapsed like it was blown by explosives, because it actually leaned to the south, where it had structural damage from the other buildings collapse. All I'm saying is you're being manipulated. Like it or not, it's the truth.

You basically proved my point with this paragraph. So many flaws here.

YOU are the one being manipulated. Like it or not, it's the truth.

[bagelred]

I wasn't trying to disprove you point. I don't believe your sources of information at all, because they just aren't credible and are easily disproved. If you want to show me otherwise go ahead.

easily disproved by who? what sources? we're being shown evidence like in a criminal case.

ok my turn.....

"the gov't is not credible, and their story is easily disproved." prove it was osama and 19 hijackers. prove it to me. you can't.

i win.

end thread.

[niko]

Because I'm not listening to what I'm being told, I'm being shown evidence. Eyewitnesses, scientific evidence, expert testimony, investigatative work...etc. etc. And if the argument presented to me is convincing...just like a jury listens to arguments, and weighs evidence....then I'll believe that argument.

And then if what's presented is well documented, and makes logical sense, and has proof, and confirms to the laws of physics, and is backed up by sources. etc. etc.....then I believe it....because of a preponderence of the evidence in that favor.

YOU and most other people listen to what the mass media is telling you, what the gov't says, and say "OK, that's what it is." The gov't and media are very powerful influences. Authoritative. If they say something, it must be true. In many people minds.

MYSELF and alot of other people listen to alternative theories, and will believe that to be true...IF the evidence is there to support it.

Make sense?

But you aren't open to a logical discussion about it, you aren't open to watching videos, and reading articles on teh subject, and weighing the evidence that's out there to form a conclusion on what makes most sense. We say "here!! take a look at this. read for yourself." And you simply denounce it as silly conspiracy theory.

OR if we start to present something, you take pieces of evidence one at a time..."oh, this could be that" or "there's probably another explanation", without looking at all the evidence in its entirety.

The earth is not flat, the earth is round.....everyone laughed at that too. No one would look at the evidence to support it.
The Sun doesn't revolve around the Earth, its vice versa. Everyone laughted at that too....even with evidence to support it.
9/11 was not done by Bin Laden and 19 random hijackers. It was an inside job. Laugh at that. Even when all the evidence is out there for you to understand that, you'll still laugh at that. Feel good in what you know.
you do understand you are an "earth is flat" person, not an earth is round, right?

[Is He Ill]

you do understand you are an "earth is flat" person, not an earth is round, right?

How so?

[niko]

BTW, i heard today that there are rumors of chatter that the terrorists groups are confirming internally (to their own) that he is now dead? Is that fake too? I need a trusted news source, can anyone give me a non confirmed blog written by someone who does it just for attention and benefits from going against the normal media? You know, something trusted.

[DeuceWallaces]

Yes it has been confirmed by Al-Qaida, but I'm guessing the US Government paid them off to make such an announcement, and Al-Qaida acquiesced so they can rally their support against America instead of a lame announcement that he died of TB or something 10 years ago.

Makes sense to me.

[Sarcastic]

If US faked the death, it's pretty shitty that they put Pakistan on the spot and pretty much framed them for harboring him. If they were going to stage the whole thing, why not put him in Afghanistan (where he was presumed to be), since we are conducting a war in that country in the first place?

[DeuceWallaces]

The United States must have leveraged their aid to Pakistan in exchange for throwing them under the international bus so they could falsely accuse them of harboring an infamous terrorist.

Makes sense to me.

[Godzuki]

Yes it has been confirmed by Al-Qaida, but I'm guessing the US Government paid them off to make such an announcement, and Al-Qaida acquiesced so they can rally their support against America instead of a lame announcement that he died of TB or something 10 years ago.

Makes sense to me.


lol

yeah theres a lot of paying off to keep the conspiracies going is my guess. Its all about the conspiracies!

[DeuceWallaces]

Because I'm not listening to what I'm being told, I'm being shown evidence. Eyewitnesses, scientific evidence, expert testimony, investigatative work...etc. etc. And if the argument presented to me is convincing...just like a jury listens to arguments, and weighs evidence....then I'll believe that argument.

And then if what's presented is well documented, and makes logical sense, and has proof, and confirms to the laws of physics, and is backed up by sources. etc. etc.....then I believe it....because of a preponderence of the evidence in that favor.

YOU and most other people listen to what the mass media is telling you, what the gov't says, and say "OK, that's what it is." The gov't and media are very powerful influences. Authoritative. If they say something, it must be true. In many people minds.

MYSELF and alot of other people listen to alternative theories, and will believe that to be true...IF the evidence is there to support it.

Make sense?

But you aren't open to a logical discussion about it, you aren't open to watching videos, and reading articles on teh subject, and weighing the evidence that's out there to form a conclusion on what makes most sense. We say "here!! take a look at this. read for yourself." And you simply denounce it as silly conspiracy theory.

OR if we start to present something, you take pieces of evidence one at a time..."oh, this could be that" or "there's probably another explanation", without looking at all the evidence in its entirety.

The earth is not flat, the earth is round.....everyone laughed at that too. No one would look at the evidence to support it.
The Sun doesn't revolve around the Earth, its vice versa. Everyone laughted at that too....even with evidence to support it.
9/11 was not done by Bin Laden and 19 random hijackers. It was an inside job. Laugh at that. Even when all the evidence is out there for you to understand that, you'll still laugh at that. Feel good in what you know.

Lol, you're not doing any of that.

[TheReturnofCed]

Yes it has been confirmed by Al-Qaida, but I'm guessing the US Government paid them off to make such an announcement, and Al-Qaida acquiesced so they can rally their support against America instead of a lame announcement that he died of TB or something 10 years ago.

Makes sense to me.

In what form was this announcement made and how can we be sure it came from a representative of al qaida? Also, this wouldn't be the first time the US government has funded al qaida

Here's some words for you to work with: CIA, Al qaida, opium, afghanistan

Let your hair down and go to work. *mwah*

[irondarts]

In what form was this announcement made and how can we be sure it came from a representative of al qaida? Also, this wouldn't be the first time the US government has funded al qaida

Here's some words for you to work with: CIA, Al qaida, opium, afghanistan

Let your hair down and go to work. *mwah*
:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

Damn.

Do you guys really have nothing better to do?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/06/osama-bin-laden-dead-al-qaeda_n_858440.html

[TheReturnofCed]

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

Damn.

Do you guys really have nothing better to do?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/06/osama-bin-laden-dead-al-qaeda_n_858440.html

Oh, anonymous postings on "militant websites"? Do you have to be al qaeda to run websites now?

"The statement's authenticity could not be independently confirmed, but it was posted on websites where the group traditionally puts out its messages."

[irondarts]

OK.

[DeuceWallaces]

In what form was this announcement made and how can we be sure it came from a representative of al qaida? Also, this wouldn't be the first time the US government has funded al qaida

Get informed before you post next time. Check theirs, or Aljazeera's or any other news based outlet. They posted it on their own damn website.

But I guess, the US likely hacked their website and posted it themselves. After they paid them, and Pakistan, off so they wouldn't protest the announcement.

Makes sense to me.

[niko]

Al Qaeda announced he died. I guess they are part of the grand conspiracy with 97% of the rest of the world, right?

[TheReturnofCed]

Get informed before you post next time. Check theirs, or Aljazeera's or any other news based outlet. They posted it on their own damn website.

But I guess, the US likely hacked their website and posted it themselves. After they paid them, and Pakistan, off so they wouldn't protest the announcement.

Makes sense to me.

"The statement's authenticity could not be independently confirmed"

That's known as BS until the statements are confirmed. And again, al qaeda CIA connection anyone?

[B]

You basically proved my point with this paragraph. So many flaws here.

YOU are the one being manipulated. Like it or not, it's the truth.Alex Jones has his hand up your ass like Jim Henson had his up Kermit's. You're the one being manipulated. You bring nothing new to the topic, you spout the same old tired diatribe of the intellectually crippled renegade without a clue. Congrats, you may now proceed to ask Miss Piggy for her phone number.

[KG215]

I'm a little worried that the ratio of conspiracy theorists and truthers seems to be about 1:1 (maybe 1.5:1 in favor of truthers) on this board. I don't like to think I live in a country with almost as many people who look for any type of unsubstantial evidence and run with it to try and prove the government and almost everything they do is some cooked-up conspiracy. I've just always assumed truthers (or people with their heads on straight, which ever you prefer) heavily outnumbers wack-job conspiracy theorists. Maybe it's just that message boards tend to attract conspiracy theorists?

[rezznor]

I'm a little worried that the ratio of conspiracy theorists and truthers seems to be about 1:1 on this board. I've just always assumed truthers heavily outnumbers wack-job conspiracy theorists. Maybe it's just that message boards tend to attract conspiracy theorists?
agreed. it used to just be dooms, but now every other poster seems to be wearing a tin foil hat.

[TheReturnofCed]

I'm a little worried that the ratio of conspiracy theorists and truthers seems to be about 1:1 on this board. I've just always assumed truthers heavily outnumbers wack-job conspiracy theorists. Maybe it's just that message boards tend to attract conspiracy theorists?

I'm a little concerned that you put conspiracy theorists and truthers on the opposite ends of the spectrum. Do you even know what a "truther" is?

[KG215]

I'm a little concerned that you put conspiracy theorists and truthers on the opposite ends of the spectrum. Do you even know what a "truther" is?

Well, I guess truther is actually used to describe conspiracy theorists, making them the same people. My fault. I just think of "truthers" being people that are debunking the nonsense that conspiracy theorists spew. I'll admit, I was wrong on my thinking of what a truther is.

Now...everyone is entitled to their opinion and some of the stuff that is questioned in regards to our government may not be completely 100% bullshit. There might be some truth to it, but I just don't understand why so many people think 9/11 attacks were some big inside job done by our government. Maybe I'm just being ignorant, but I tend to believe the information presented by non-conspiracy theorists more than I believe the info. from conspiracy theorists.

[TheReturnofCed]

People like David Gergen are writing articles for CNN about how 9/11 conspiracies, Osama conspiracies, etc are ridiculous. Talking about this unconfirmed posting from Al Qaida

Yeah, this David Gergen who locks up when confronted about Bohemian Grove, a place in California where all the world's elites like to gather, wear robes, and worship a giant owl and mock human sacrifices. Also articles referencing homo activity there. That's pretty normal though, right?

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/05/06/gergen.ground.zero/index.html?hpt=T1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHFoUZEjuNM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_PAqT2JZOw

Full bohemian grove video; do normal people do these things?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtSVBTne-KY&feature=related

[rezznor]

People like David Gergen are writing articles for CNN about how 9/11 conspiracies, Osama conspiracies, etc are ridiculous. Talking about this unconfirmed posting from Al Qaida

Yeah, this David Gergen who locks up when confronted about Bohemian Grove, a place in California where all the world's elites like to gather, wear robes, and worship a giant owl and mock human sacrifices. Also articles referencing homo activity there. That's pretty normal though, right?

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/05/06/gergen.ground.zero/index.html?hpt=T1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHFoUZEjuNM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_PAqT2JZOw

Full bohemian grove video; do normal people do these things?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtSVBTne-KY&feature=related


around here we call that a Tuesday night.

[InspiredLebowski]

I'd never heard of this but apparently some Apollos missions conspiracy type thing is "solved (http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20110506/sc_space/moonmicrobemysteryfinallysolved)."

[rufuspaul]

I always like the conspiracy nuts asking questions like "Why didn't NORAD shoot down the planes?" I think these guys watch too many movies. Here's my take:

1. NORAD monitors the skies to defend against hostile invasion of US airspace. These were civilian aircraft that had every right to be in US airspace.

2. Strange things happen with commercial flights all the time. Pilots inadvertently turn off communications, change course, etc. When the transponders on the planes were turned off and they changed course it was protocol for air traffic controllers to try and contact the planes, which they attempted. It has never been Air force protocol to shoot down a commercial plane even if it is known that it has been hijacked.

3. No one had any idea that these planes had been hijacked, much less that they were going to be used to crash into buildings. When the first plane hit the north tower all air traffic controllers knew was that it was no longer on their radar. They had to wait to get news from the ground. In other words they found out a plane had hit one of the towers the same time people like me heard about it on the news. The FAA was in the process of trying to figure out what was going on when the 2nd plane hit.

4. Now that people were putting 2 and 2 together it became a question of what to do and who had the authority to do it. The decision was made to ground all domestic aircraft and close US airspace (not an easy thing to do). By this time the plane that hit the Pentagon and flight 93 were already in the air.

The conspiracy nuts act like there's one guy watching everything that's going on in the sky and in a split second he has the authority to scramble fighter jets and shoot down planes.

[niko]

I always like the conspiracy nuts asking questions like "Why didn't NORAD shoot down the planes?" I think these guys watch too many movies. Here's my take:

1. NORAD monitors the skies to defend against hostile invasion of US airspace. These were civilian aircraft that had every right to be in US airspace.

2. Strange things happen with commercial flights all the time. Pilots inadvertently turn off communications, change course, etc. When the transponders on the planes were turned off and they changed course it was protocol for air traffic controllers to try and contact the planes, which they attempted. It has never been Air force protocol to shoot down a commercial plane even if it is known that it has been hijacked.

3. No one had any idea that these planes had been hijacked, much less that they were going to be used to crash into buildings. When the first plane hit the north tower all air traffic controllers knew was that it was no longer on their radar. They had to wait to get news from the ground. In other words they found out a plane had hit one of the towers the same time people like me heard about it on the news. The FAA was in the process of trying to figure out what was going on when the 2nd plane hit.

4. Now that people were putting 2 and 2 together it became a question of what to do and who had the authority to do it. The decision was made to ground all domestic aircraft and close US airspace (not an easy thing to do). By this time the plane that hit the Pentagon and flight 93 were already in the air.

The conspiracy nuts act like there's one guy watching everything that's going on in the sky and in a split second he has the authority to scramble fighter jets and shoot down planes.
Reason 5 - the government is full of cheapasses with no vision. Brooklyn had at one time, an aerial guard. My father served in it when he was in the army. If you drive on the Belt Parkway West it's on your right side right before the Verrazano bridge. There's a park near it now. So, at one point we had planes in Brooklyn for just this reason.

Perhaps Bush went back in time and had them removed because he knew this was going to happen?

[niko]

Well, I guess truther is actually used to describe conspiracy theorists, making them the same people. My fault. I just think of "truthers" being people that are debunking the nonsense that conspiracy theorists spew. I'll admit, I was wrong on my thinking of what a truther is.

Now...everyone is entitled to their opinion and some of the stuff that is questioned in regards to our government may not be completely 100% bullshit. There might be some truth to it, but I just don't understand why so many people think 9/11 attacks were some big inside job done by our government. Maybe I'm just being ignorant, but I tend to believe the information presented by non-conspiracy theorists more than I believe the info. from conspiracy theorists.
i just think it's too big. Ever try to keep a secret? It's easy by yourself but even then, things come up that almost reveal it. If two people know, twice as much can occur to let it happen. But the 9-11 conspiracy (the one people like that's all convuluted and involves missles, buildings filled with explosives, imaginary terrorists, etc.) would involve so many people that it feels impossible that it would be a secret.

[TheReturnofCed]

niko, rezznor, rufus and the rest of you intelligent, logical, and level-headed people (not some conspiracy nut idiot like myself)

what is your take on my post about the bohemian grove?

[KG215]

i just think it's too big. Ever try to keep a secret? It's easy by yourself but even then, things come up that almost reveal it. If two people know, twice as much can occur to let it happen. But the 9-11 conspiracy (the one people like that's all convuluted and involves missles, buildings filled with explosives, imaginary terrorists, etc.) would involve so many people that it feels impossible that it would be a secret.

Which is the biggest reason I can't believe 9/11 was an inside job. Like it's been stated, an inside job of that magnitude would take years of planning and more than say, just 10-15 people (my guess is the number would be at least 100) which makes it even less believable that that many people could keep that secret for so long without ever letting something slip before the actual 9/11 attacks occurred.

Now, if George Bush or some other high-up official from the Bush Administration ever come out and say the 9/11 attacks were an inside job, then I'll believe it. For now, though, the stuff that conspiracy theorists throw out as facts seem a lot less believable than realizing and thinking the chances of 9/11 being an inside job are highly unlikely.

[rufuspaul]

niko, rezznor, rufus and the rest of you intelligent, logical, and level-headed people (not some conspiracy nut idiot like myself)

what is your take on my post about the bohemian grove?

We've been sworn to secrecy. Sorry.

[bada bing]

here is my take on it. It was not an inside job. It can't be. If it was, someone would have leaked something. We would have found out somehow about something. What i will say is that hte administration and the people in charge were definitely incompetent and lazy ass fcks. That alone should put them at trial and jailed for endangering the lives of so many people. But saying it was an inside job just doesn't make sens. If it was, soemthing would have been out by now. The amount of people needed to pull something like this is crazy. Any one of those people would have come out with some info or something.

[TheReturnofCed]

We've been sworn to secrecy. Sorry.

:lol

I refuse to believe there's anyone on here who can go through that post and not end up looking like this: :wtf:

[Doomsday Dallas]

here is my take on it. It was not an inside job. It can't be. If it was, someone would have leaked something. We would have found out somehow about something. What i will say is that hte administration and the people in charge were definitely incompetent and lazy ass fcks. That alone should put them at trial and jailed for endangering the lives of so many people. But saying it was an inside job just doesn't make sens. If it was, soemthing would have been out by now. The amount of people needed to pull something like this is crazy. Any one of those people would have come out with some info or something.



First off... many people have been talking... problem is your "controlled" mainstream Media
isn't going to give them the time of day.

So what do the people have to do to get the information out?

They go to people like Alex Jones (as you can see in the OP).
We won't be seeing Dr. Steve R. Pieczenik on the MSM anytime soon.


Secondly... when somebody does leak something (Aaron Russo) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nD7dbkkBIA)... it
is commonly dismissed as somebody trying to seek attention or make
some money.


Thirdly... When did it become a scientific fact that somebody would have spilled the beans by now?
That seems like speculation on your part. The Manhattan Project is often used as an
example to debunk your debunking...

[TheReturnofCed]

here is my take on it. It was not an inside job. It can't be. If it was, someone would have leaked something. We would have found out somehow about something. What i will say is that hte administration and the people in charge were definitely incompetent and lazy ass fcks. That alone should put them at trial and jailed for endangering the lives of so many people. But saying it was an inside job just doesn't make sens. If it was, soemthing would have been out by now. The amount of people needed to pull something like this is crazy. Any one of those people would have come out with some info or something.

Someone did... you read the OP?

[InspiredLebowski]

Just checking, anyone change their mind yet?

[rufuspaul]

:lol

I refuse to believe there's anyone on here who can go through that post and not end up looking like this: :wtf:

Rich powerful men behaving like drunken frat brothers is not really a jaw-dropping discovery.

[TheReturnofCed]

Rich powerful men behaving like drunken frat brothers is not really a jaw-dropping discovery.

You don't find it strange that such a high profile event with a variety of significant figures gathered in one place, doing very strange things wouldn't be reported on at all in the MSM?

[rufuspaul]

You don't find it strange that such a high profile event with a variety of significant figures gathered in one place, doing very strange things wouldn't be reported on at all in the MSM?

Nope. There are secret societies everywhere. Blue blood white people love them.

Also a lot of high profile media types (Walter Chronkite) were/are members.

[InspiredLebowski]

Nope. There are secret societies everywhere. Blue blood white people love them.

Also a lot of high profile media types (Walter Chronkite) were/are members.This man knows of what he speaks. Look at that shit (http://dentsem.com/).

[rufuspaul]

This man knows of what he speaks. Look at that shit (http://dentsem.com/).

:roll:

I went to a seminar in Maui a few years ago. Actually I never attended it just registered for the seminar so the trip would be a tax write-off. I stayed at the Four Seasons and only left the resort once to go to the top of a big-ass volcano.:oldlol:

[IcanzIIravor]

niko, rezznor, rufus and the rest of you intelligent, logical, and level-headed people (not some conspiracy nut idiot like myself)

what is your take on my post about the bohemian grove?

What does it have to do with the discussion? There are multiple secret societies throughout the world. Do they in turn all belong to a super secret society that controls the world?

[InspiredLebowski]

What happened to the guy on here that said he worked at Bohemian Grove for a summer? Can't remember who it was. Said it just seemed like a normal country club. Guess he coulda been in on it though.

[IcanzIIravor]

First off... many people have been talking... problem is your "controlled" mainstream Media
isn't going to give them the time of day.

So what do the people have to do to get the information out?

They go to people like Alex Jones (as you can see in the OP).
We won't be seeing Dr. Steve R. Pieczenik on the MSM anytime soon.


Secondly... when somebody does leak something (Aaron Russo) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nD7dbkkBIA)... it
is commonly dismissed as somebody trying to seek attention or make
some money.


Thirdly... When did it become a scientific fact that somebody would have spilled the beans by now?
That seems like speculation on your part. The Manhattan Project is often used as an
example to debunk your debunking...

How long ago was the Manhattan Project? You realize that 50-60 years ago Bill Clinton getting a bj in public on main street would have been kept hush by the media right, let alone a bj or two in the oval office.

[KG215]

Rich powerful men behaving like drunken frat brothers is not really a jaw-dropping discovery.

This is exactly what I thought of when I first read what information I could find on the super-secret clubs. Just sounded like some middle-aged and older men behaving exactly like frat boys in college, which I'm sure a lot of them were frat boys in college.

[rufuspaul]

What does it have to do with the discussion? There are multiple secret societies throughout the world. Do they in turn all belong to a super secret society that controls the world?

Yes but that's a secret.

[tontoz]

[QUOTE]CAIRO

[RidonKs]

Makes sense to me.
lol

[FinishHim!]

Are you people serious? You think that Obama, a guy that cares that much about the victims and their families. A guy who spends countless hours meeting people, giving out hugs, money, listening to their tragic stories is gonna just get up on a podium and be like "well, I need a push to get a 2nd term in office" and just lie to everyone about a guy who has been dead for 10 years? Wow you freaking modern day hippies are ridiculous.

[thatoneblackguy]

Are you people serious? You think that Obama, a guy that cares that much about the victims and their families. A guy who spends countless hours meeting people, giving out hugs, money, listening to their tragic stories is gonna just get up on a podium and be like "well, I need a push to get a 2nd term in office" and just lie to everyone about a guy who has been dead for 10 years? Wow you freaking modern day hippies are ridiculous.
:facepalm

[FinishHim!]

And on top of that, as dumb as George Bush jr. is, you really think he orchestrated the greatest tragedy on terrorism in the history of this country? What would he have to gain from that?

[bdreason]

The Government did manage to shoot down one of the planes... unless you guys really believe that story about the 'heroic' passengers taking over the plane after they found out what happened with the WTC (which has been proven a technological impossibility).

[tontoz]

Some home movies of Bin Laden watching himself on TV. He looks pretty good for a guy who died years earlier. :oldlol:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110507/ap_on_re_us/us_bin_laden

[lilbeastnani]

Some home movies of Bin Laden watching himself on TV. He looks pretty good for a guy who died years earlier. :oldlol:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110507/ap_on_re_us/us_bin_laden
I was just about to post this. Looking pretty spry for a guy who supposedly has been dead for 10 years.

[niko]

The Government did manage to shoot down one of the planes... unless you guys really believe that story about the 'heroic' passengers taking over the plane after they found out what happened with the WTC (which has been proven a technological impossibility).
Why do people keep saying this? You can get cel phone calls on approach. Try it. Turn your phone on. I got scolded one because the phone rang and i answered it on approach to JFK.

[bdreason]

Why do people keep saying this? You can get cel phone calls on approach. Try it. Turn your phone on. I got scolded one because the phone rang and i answered it on approach to JFK.


It isn't 2001, and they weren't 'on approach'.

[B]

It isn't 2001, and they weren't 'on approach'.
Another blithering Idiot who thinks cell phones don't work on planes because some nut job told him so.

Cells work perfectly fine on planes and have since the 90's.

[The Next Jordan]

[QUOTE=B

[Draz]

Idk, I'm doubting this thread now. There's a lot of evidence proving other wise.

[B]

For the most part, once the plane has reached it's flying altitude they don't. How do I know? Because i've had my phone on before when a plane has reached it's full altitude and it didn't get any service.I spend several hours a month on private charter aircraft and have for the last 10 years plus I have never had a problem at 20k and below over the continental main land other than the wide open spaces like Kansas Nebraska and Rocky Mountains. The make of the plane seems to have more to do with connectivity than altitude as long as you're over a cell covered area.

[bagelred]

baglelred should probably tell Al Qaeda that Bin Laden died in 2001. I don't think they got the memo.

There is no Al Qaeda. It's made up by the CIA. It's a fiction. Like the Boogeyman.

[bagelred]

Some home movies of Bin Laden watching himself on TV. He looks pretty good for a guy who died years earlier. :oldlol:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110507/ap_on_re_us/us_bin_laden

Are you convinced that's him? I'm not. And do you know when that video was taken?

That doesn't prove anything to me. The CIA has been caught several times making up false videos about Osama.

[RoseCity07]

:roll:
The right wing can't stand it. Obama got him and they just can't get over it. They are trying to take credit for it, and now that it's not working, this cover up story is the best thing they can think of. Even have a nice disease that seems like something Osama could have had.

Just give it a rest. If this was a cover up, Bush would have announced his death years ago.

[IcanzIIravor]

There is no Al Qaeda. It's made up by the CIA. It's a fiction. Like the Boogeyman.


:facepalm

[DeuceWallaces]

There is no Al Qaeda. It's made up by the CIA. It's a fiction. Like the Boogeyman.

Lol stop being a ****ing idiot. If that's even possible,

[Quata]

So, if osama and bush were in kahootz because they wanted to take down a shared enemy in Saddam why didn't they rig 9/11 to give the appearance that is was the work of Hussein and use that as grounds to invade, not take the big loop around?

[bagelred]

Lol stop being a ****ing idiot. If that's even possible,

Would you know if it was made up? Where are they located? Who's in charge? Where are they? Do you know? The gov't uses them as the Boogeyman.

Not saying there aren't some extremists out there who would want to bomb U.S.. Just saying there is no elaborate organization called Al Quada. It was made up by the gov't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mztfFdpd1Rk&feature=related

Here's an interesting BBC documentary...part of it.

[tontoz]

There is no Al Qaeda. It's made up by the CIA. It's a fiction. Like the Boogeyman.

:oldlol: They were responsible for dozens of terrorist attacks before 911. in fact they had already bombed the WTC years before.

Typical conspiracy nut, dumb as a rock and relentlessly denying the obvious.

[Jackass18]

So, we can't believe anything in the news unless it supports some wacky conspiracy theory?

[lilbeastnani]

Would you know if it was made up? Where are they located? Who's in charge? Where are they? Do you know? The gov't uses them as the Boogeyman.

Not saying there aren't some extremists out there who would want to bomb U.S.. Just saying there is no elaborate organization called Al Quada. It was made up by the gov't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mztfFdpd1Rk&feature=related

Here's an interesting BBC documentary...part of it.
So if you haven't seen it with your own two eyes, then it = the Boogyman? Did you watch the towers fall in person? What if Bush just doctored that footage so that you wouldn't see him placing TNT under both buildings and making them fall, Loonie Toon style. You crazy nut job. :oldlol:

[bagelred]

So if you haven't seen it with your own two eyes, then it = the Boogyman? Did you watch the towers fall in person? What if Bush just doctored that footage so that you wouldn't see him placing TNT under both buildings and making them fall, Loonie Toon style. You crazy nut job. :oldlol:

Yes the towers fell.

But it wasn't "Al Quada". There had to be inside elements of our gov't in order for 9/11 to happen.

Of course the attacks actually occur. What I'm saying is, you should be questioning who is actually doing the attacks and for what reason.