Why is pumpfaking and jumping INTO the defender not an offensive foul?

[eliteballer]

A la charging? It's cheating, just like flopping.

[ukplayer4]

is it ok when kobe does it? how come you dont make a thread every time he does it?

[Batz]

Only is when you hit Lebron or Wade..





In all slightly more seriousness, if you lower your shoulder into the defender and ram it in there, like Paul Pierce does, then it is an offensive foul.

[juju151111]

Cause its not. Stop it BS it boy In does it too. It's a offensive move to fake or draw a foul. Don't jump

[SinJackal]

It's cheating, just like flopping.

It isn't "just like flopping", it IS flopping. So is the rip through move.

Most players will use some form of flopping. So you should probably just stop expecting those guys to flip the switch off and stop doing it. It gives them an edge, so they're all going to do it whenever they can.



Cause its not. Stop it BS it boy In does it too. It's a offensive move to fake or draw a foul. Don't jump

He's talking about when the ball handler jumps forward and throws a shoulder into the defender. He isn't talking about a guy who jumps on a pump fake and lands in the offensive player's space.

[MayCeltics]

Kobe does it :confusedshrug: Stop whinning.

[ICanDunk]

It is cheesy as hell. Especially in 2k11

[juju151111]

It isn't "just like flopping", it IS flopping. So is the rip through move.

Most players will use some form of flopping. So you should probably just stop expecting those guys to flip the switch off and stop doing it. It gives them an edge, so they're all going to do it whenever they can.




He's talking about when the ball handler jumps forward and throws a shoulder into the defender. He isn't talking about a guy who jumps on a pump fake and lands in the offensive player's space.
I know, its a legal move don't jump. Davy players use it and smartly.

[Clutch]

It's bullshit.
I wouldn't call anything,just keep playing.

[SinJackal]

I know, its a legal move don't jump. Davy players use it and smartly.

We know it's a legal move. The thread is questioning why it is legal. It should be an offensive foul. Or at least a no call. It's a very cheap move.

And I'm guessing you meant "savvy", not "davy". :lol

[eliteballer]

I dont think Kobe should do it either. It cheapens the game.

[Doranku]

We know it's a legal move. The thread is questioning why it is legal. It should be an offensive foul. Or at least a no call. It's a very cheap move.

And I'm guessing you meant "savvy", not "davy". :lol

Yup, this.

Wade is the absolute worst at it. He'll jump into a defender three feet to the right of him and get a whistle for it. :facepalm

[PistonsFan#21]

Its an offensive foul or a no call if the defender jumps straight up and you jump into him. Its a shooting foul if the defender jumps towards you and you jump into him at the same time to create contact. Its also an offensive foul if the defender jumps on the side but the offensive player jump sideways to create contact but refs will sometimes miss that call

whats so hard to understand?

[PowerGlove]

Yup, this.

Wade is the absolute worst at it. He'll jump into a defender three feet to the right of him and get a whistle for it. :facepalm
LOL, so true.

He does a damn long jump into a defender and gets foul. Just atrocioius. Just like spelling, but whatever.

[Goliath Uterus]

It's smart basketball. If you wanna be mad at anybody, be mad at the defenders biting on the pump fake.

[BarberSchool]

I don't want to see this become an instant offensive foul, but I'd love to see it become a consistent embarrassing no call. Especially for Wade and Kobe, who use it most.

[juju151111]

We know it's a legal move. The thread is questioning why it is legal. It should be an offensive foul. Or at least a no call. It's a very cheap move.

And I'm guessing you meant "savvy", not "davy". :lol
I am on my phone, it auto spellchecks shit

[donald_trump]

if a player is stupid enough to jump forward into the air and fall for a pumpfake, its a foul. they do, so you are allowed to jump forward, since the defender is too. since hes jumping forward, its a defensive foul.

its not cheating. its defensive players being stupid. its a great tactic.

a cheap tactic is swinging your arm through. a player is allowed to have his arm out and hold it there.

[lakerspng]

the play in question, and the type of play the OP is alluding to is not the defender jumping into the offensive player's space..

Pau Gasol jumped at an angle in front of Jason Kidd's shot, Jason Kidd had to jump sideways to make contact with Pau who was nowhere in his space. That should not have been called a foul. The defender is allowed their space as well, if the offensive player enters it and makes contact, it is an offensive foul by rule. Technically since Jason Kidd was the one who jumped into Pau, then it should have either been an offensive foul or no call at all.... although it should have ben ball out of bounds and a travel on Jason Kidd before that even took place... instead 3 free throws for J Kidd. terrible call.

[GOBB]

I dont think Kobe should do it either. It cheapens the game.

Yeah but the people of ISH want to know why you never called Kobe out on it when he made a habit of it? :roll:

[AIR CONGO]

I don't like it when a shooter can jump diagonal into the defender even though the defender went straight up.

[HB40TheNextStar]

is it ok when kobe does it? how come you dont make a thread every time he does it?
:banana:

[GOBB]

the play in question, and the type of play the OP is alluding to is not the defender jumping into the offensive player's space..

Pau Gasol jumped at an angle in front of Jason Kidd's shot, Jason Kidd had to jump sideways to make contact with Pau who was nowhere in his space. That should not have been called a foul. The defender is allowed their space as well, if the offensive player enters it and makes contact, it is an offensive foul by rule. Technically since Jason Kidd was the one who jumped into Pau, then it should have either been an offensive foul or no call at all.... although it should have ben ball out of bounds and a travel on Jason Kidd before that even took place... instead 3 free throws for J Kidd. terrible call.

A rule modification needs to be made. Van Gundy has made a complaint over that play time and time again.

[G-train]

It is an offensive foul if defended properly.
If you don't leave the ground with your arms straight up, or leave the ground and stay straight its a charge.

[G-train]

I don't like it when a shooter can jump diagonal into the defender even though the defender went straight up.

That's an offensive foul.

[PJR]

I'm trying to remember who was the first person I remember pulling this move. I believe it was Sam Cassell. Anyways, I dislike it to. I only likes fouls where you're in actual act of shooting/scoring. Period.

[Scal]

Its an offensive foul or a no call if the defender jumps straight up and you jump into him. Its a shooting foul if the defender jumps towards you and you jump into him at the same time to create contact. Its also an offensive foul if the defender jumps on the side but the offensive player jump sideways to create contact but refs will sometimes miss that call

whats so hard to understand?
At least some posters have made an intelligent response instead of the usual player X hating.

I agree - if the defender is straight up, it cannot be a foul on the defender. If the defender is jumping toward the offensive player, the player with the ball has advantage so it is a foul.

The rip around foul is annoying though legitimate. Just unfortunate as you are taught good defensive stance is arms out, palms up (but outside a player's cylinder).

[brwnman]

LOL?! Troll thread?

If the defender jumps straight up, it is an offensive foul. Too bad, defenders are always jumpy (pun intended?) and want to block that shot, so they jump leaning forward or to the side and then they are at the mercy of the offensive player...

[Euroleague]

Because Stern runs the NBA.

[nashwade]

Its an offensive foul or a no call if the defender jumps straight up and you jump into him. Its a shooting foul if the defender jumps towards you and you jump into him at the same time to create contact. Its also an offensive foul if the defender jumps on the side but the offensive player jump sideways to create contact but refs will sometimes miss that call

whats so hard to understand?

this

if you are the defender and you play Kobe, Wade, Billups and you jump forward, you're done

[Harison]

Its an offensive foul or a no call if the defender jumps straight up and you jump into him. Its a shooting foul if the defender jumps towards you and you jump into him at the same time to create contact. Its also an offensive foul if the defender jumps on the side but the offensive player jump sideways to create contact but refs will sometimes miss that call

whats so hard to understand?
Fans understand this, but refs dont, at least we get such impression when watching DWistle, Lebron, etc. :confusedshrug:

[DJ Leon Smith]

I don't like it when a shooter can jump diagonal into the defender even though the defender went straight up.

Like what G-Train said, that's an offensive foul. Or at least that's how it should be called, whether it is or not is another story. I remember a game years ago when Sean Elliott was guarding Jordan, MJ faked and Elliott bit, jumped straight up, Jordan shot and leaned into him and was called for a charge. If you jump straight up (staying in your own vertical "cylinder") the foul should be called on the played jumping into you.

[Floppy]

I don't like it when a shooter can jump diagonal into the defender even though the defender went straight up.
Those plays are so infuriating.

Also, since they added the half circle every charge suddenly turns into a blocking foul. WTF is that? Can't there be no calls any more? Do you really have to call every contact? You shouldn't be punished for having legal defensive positioning even in the half circle. If someone thinks he has to barrel through a defender don't bail him out with a block when he misses. :facepalm

Refs also love to use that half circle as an excuse to call a blocking foul even when the defender goes straight up. :mad:

/rant

[heyhey]

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/711807/dwyane-wade-pump-fake-h.gif

[sprainedankle]

If the defender jumps straight up it is an offensive foul. The problem is 99% of the time the defender is jumping towards the offensive player. In that case, the offensive player has every right to jump into the defender and a foul is the proper call. If you don't like it, jump straight up or better yet, don't bite on a pump fake.

[JustinJDW]

It is an offensive foul if defended properly.
If you don't leave the ground with your arms straight up, or leave the ground and stay straight its a charge.This.

But when the hell was the last time an offensive foul was called in a situation like this? 99% of the time, its a shooting foul. But then again, how many times does the defender actually jumps straight up, and not forward...

[50inchvertical]

Last night Pau thought he was clever and jumped passed Kidd to the side and Kidd literally jumped sideways and backwards into him and still got the ball. If I was a ref (in fact I do sometimes for low level tournaments), players would hate me because I would never give that call.

[millwad]

I think it's ok to a certain point.
I'm not cool with the thing Durant does, when the defensive player is on him he drags his arms with the boll in his hands under the defenders arm and then fast as hell he drags the ball up under the defenders arm and as soon he gets some contact he drags his arm up like he's about to shooooot... NO LIKE!

[chips93]

A la charging? It's cheating, just like flopping.


if the defensive player is moving into the offensive player, then its a foul on the defensive player. if an offensive player drives hard to the rim, and a defender hits into him, then its a foul, whats the difference? as long as the defender leaves his verticality, then he could foul somebody, it stops defenders being reckless

[allabouthawks]

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/711807/dwyane-wade-pump-fake-h.gif

HAHA i saw this the other day within 1 sec was thinking he was practicing it lol

[gilalizard]

Its an offensive foul or a no call if the defender jumps straight up and you jump into him. Its a shooting foul if the defender jumps towards you and you jump into him at the same time to create contact. Its also an offensive foul if the defender jumps on the side but the offensive player jump sideways to create contact but refs will sometimes miss that call

whats so hard to understand?


That regardless of circumstance, it's typically called as a foul on the defender. Even when the shooter blatantly jumps into the defender.

Pierce and dwhistle are the most high-profile offenders. CP3 is pretty shameless in using it. And Kobe goes to it sometimes as well.

[d.bball.guy]

It is an offensive foul if defended properly.
If you don't leave the ground with your arms straight up, or leave the ground and stay straight its a charge.
This.

But if you try to fade away/evade but still got hit, that's the time it should be called a shooting foul.

Jumping into the defender is a cheesy move.

[bdreason]

If the defender jumps straight up and down, it should be a charge, or at least a no-call. I've noticed some refs don't give the pump faker credit for the contact, and I've seen it called an offensive foul a couple times.

[wakencdukest]

Wade does it, Chris Paul does it, and Kobe does it, along with a lot of other players. It's a ***** move whoever does it. Same as a flop, bottom line. And the Durant move, swinging the arms up through the defender, ***** move also. Some argue that it's a smart play, well, so is flopping on the ground like you've been shot. There's no difference no matter how blatant the flop. other fans like myself think that jumping into someone or swinging through the defenders arms should be at least a no-call.

[LA_Showtime]

I don't want to see this become an instant offensive foul, but I'd love to see it become a consistent embarrassing no call. Especially for Wade and Kobe, who use it most.

Kobe hardly ever uses it. Wade uses it quite a bit, but Durant has absolutely perfected the move. It really is ridiculous though and I wouldn't mind if they started calling an offensive foul or just ignoring it completely.

[nightprowler10]

It's an ugly move and makes basketball less watchable IMO. I remember Rose tried it against Indy in game 1 and it pissed me off.

[Stuckey]

to fellow referees: you call the rip through foul every time right? what if there is only contact on the hand? does hand on ball rule apply?

[LA_Showtime]

to fellow referees: you call the rip through foul every time right? what if there is only contact on the hand? does hand on ball rule apply?

I usually don't make that call. I officiate 5th and 6th grade YMCA boys, though. They're stupid as shit. They don't even know how to dribble. This should be a damn thread. I have so many ridiculous officiating stories. I have been yelled at by like 50 different head coaches for making OBVIOUS calls.