From one Kobe fan to another...

[game385]

I've been a fan of Kobe's for most of his career but I always thought that comparing Kobe Bryant to Michael Jordan was the equivalent of comparing Usher to Michael Jackson.

Yeah it makes sense in the grand scheme of things b/c obviously they're both influenced by their industry's respective G.O.A.T.s but really? Has it ever been worth a serious debate?

I typically don't waste my time arguing with Kobe fans who take it too far and try to say Kobe's better than MJ...

To me, that was like arguing with a 15 year old girl who was mesmerized by Confessions and never saw Thriller, never listened to the entire Bad or Off the Wall albums, never saw Motown 25 or a MJ concert performance, and never heard a Jackson 5 greatest hits. Sometimes when you have to just nod your head and smile...

As a Kobe guy, it's not over til it's over. But please stop the Kobe> Jordan sh*t. Some of you guys are showing ur age...(ugh em!, 90's babies...smh)
You just look silly and naive.

[I'm Seriously]

That is an insult to Kobe Bryant.

Kobe may not be as good as Jordan, but he's still one of the greatest basketball players ever.

While Usher is average at best.

[lilbeastnani]

:oldlol: great comparison

[blablabla]

i've never seen anyone saying kobe>jordan
but some people here must think jordan is god and think that he would have won a title with smush parker as his second option most kobe threads are started by kobe haters trying to bash kobe
they don't respect kobe at all i don't know why

[Dragonyeuw]

Kobe is par with Jordan in terms of skill and talent. I always felt the biggest difference between the two was the way they applied their skills, which to me is a product moreso of IQ. Jordan's is superior.... that and Jordan simply has physical advantages over Kobe that allowed him to do a few things that Kobe simply isn't physically capable of.

[DeronMillsap]

Jordan = Michael
Kobe = Tito

[Mirjalovic]

Kobe is par with Jordan in terms of skill and talent. I always felt the biggest difference between the two was the way they applied their skills, which to me is a product moreso of IQ. Jordan's is superior.... that and Jordan simply has physical advantages over Kobe that allowed him to do a few things that Kobe simply isn't physically capable of.
i also think so..
Maybe its because since the childhood Kobe spent motly his time to play one on one with his father...

but he still one of greats

[rodman91]

Thats the difference between greatest of all players and one of the greatest player.

[game385]

That is an insult to Kobe Bryant.

Kobe may not be as good as Jordan, but he's still one of the greatest basketball players ever.

While Usher is average at best.

I think that's up for debate. As an artist and performer, I wouldn't call Usher average at all. Probably a matter of musical taste tho.

However, think about Usher during the height of his popularity during the Confession album and ask yourself what other R&B/Pop artist has mirrored Michael Jackson as closely and as successfully as Usher?

You'd be hard pressed to find any artist that both sings and dances that hasn't studied or attempted mirror Michael Jackson in some fashion...

If Usher's average, who's above average? Justin Timberlake? Chris Brown? Ne-Yo? Omarion?...Pleaze... Sorry but of the new generation of singing and dancing male R&B artists, Usher has risen above the rest similarly to how Kobe has risen above his pears who have also been similarly influenced by the MJ of their business. D-Wade, T-Mac, LeBron, Vince Carter... Kobe's been more successful then all these guys and therein lie the heart of the analogy.

[hkfosho]

MJ > Kobe

NEXT

[I'm Seriously]

I think that's up for debate. As an artist and performer, I wouldn't call Usher average at all. Probably a matter of musical taste tho.

However, think about Usher during the height of his popularity during the Confession album and ask yourself what other R&B/Pop artist has mirrored Michael Jackson as closely and as successfully as Usher?

You'd be hard pressed to find any artist that both sings and dances that hasn't studied or attempted mirror Michael Jackson in some fashion...

If Usher's average, who's above average? Justin Timberlake? Chris Brown? Ne-Yo? Omarion?...Pleaze... Sorry but of the new generation of singing and dancing male R&B artists, Usher has risen above the rest similarly to how Kobe has risen above his pears who have also been similarly influenced by the MJ of their business. D-Wade, T-Mac, LeBron, Vince Carter... Kobe's been more successful then all these guys and therein lie the heart of the analogy.

I don't, and I've never really had any sort of interest for R&B/Pop. So I can't answer you as to whether or not Usher is/was hyped up as this generation's Michael Jackson, as Kobe is hyped as this generation's Michael Jordan. But as a basketball player Kobe's one of the greatest ever....I don't see how anyone with any sort of good musical knowledge can say the same about Usher as a performer.

Now if in fact Usher is hyped up as this generation's Michael Jackson like Kobe is as this generation's Jordan, then I completely understand your analogy.

But I find It absurd to compare Kobe Bryant as a basketball player, to Usher as a performer.

[The Next Jordan]

i've never seen anyone saying kobe>jordan
but some people here must think jordan is god and think that he would have won a title with smush parker as his second option most kobe threads are started by kobe haters trying to bash kobe
they don't respect kobe at all i don't know why
Wow, I didn't think anyone who has been on insidehoops could legitimately make that claim.

[Ne 1]

MJ > Kobe

NEXT

Kareem > Jordan

NEXT

[hkfosho]

Kareem > Jordan in total points only

NEXT

NEXT

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Wilt > All

But anyway I agree. It's not fair to down Kobe because he doesn't match up to Jordan..the best SG ever and considered by many to be the greatest player ever. Just appreciate the fact that you are witnessing a Top 10 player right now and that he won't be around forever. Both are their own players. Jordan is Jordan and Kobe is Kobe. Jordan retired years ago..just let Kobe do him and continue to add to his already illustrious career.

[game385]

I don't, and I've never really had any sort of interest for R&B/Pop. So I can't answer you as to whether or not Usher is/was hyped up as this generation's Michael Jackson, as Kobe is hyped as this generation's Michael Jordan. But as a basketball player Kobe's one of the greatest ever....I don't see how anyone with any sort of good musical knowledge can say the same about Usher as a performer.

Now if in fact Usher is hyped up as this generation's Michael Jackson like Kobe is as this generation's Jordan, then I completely understand your analogy.

But I find It absurd to compare Kobe Bryant as a basketball player, to Usher as a performer.

Oh ok. You have to be familiar with R&B/Pop music and culture to fully appreciate the comparison but it is fair. Nobody in music has ever been crazy enough to say Usher is better than Michael Jackson, but once upon a time Usher was heralded as the heir apparent to the King of Pop's throne.
The closest thing this generation has ever seen to MJ can be said for both Usher and Kobe.

[I'm Seriously]

Oh ok. You have to be familiar with R&B/Pop music and culture to fully appreciate the comparison but it is fair. Nobody in music has ever been crazy enough to say Usher is better than Michael Jackson, but once upon a time Usher was heralded as the heir apparent to the King of Pop's throne.

If that Is the case than I totally get your analogy about Kobe and Usher being the Next "Michael" of there respective professions.

I just feel It's disrespectful to Kobe who's one of the greatest basketball players of all time, to compare him to Usher, who's not that good of an musician.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

I think that's up for debate. As an artist and performer, I wouldn't call Usher average at all. Probably a matter of musical taste tho.

However, think about Usher during the height of his popularity during the Confession album and ask yourself what other R&B/Pop artist has mirrored Michael Jackson as closely and as successfully as Usher?

You'd be hard pressed to find any artist that both sings and dances that hasn't studied or attempted mirror Michael Jackson in some fashion...

If Usher's average, who's above average? Justin Timberlake? Chris Brown? Ne-Yo? Omarion?...Pleaze... Sorry but of the new generation of singing and dancing male R&B artists, Usher has risen above the rest similarly to how Kobe has risen above his pears who have also been similarly influenced by the MJ of their business. D-Wade, T-Mac, LeBron, Vince Carter... Kobe's been more successful then all these guys and therein lie the heart of the analogy.
You think Usher is the best R&B singer out there right now?

[The Next Jordan]

You think Usher is the best R&B singer out there right now?
In terms of popularity and star power he is. R&B is a dying industry.

[Ne 1]

NEXT

Nope.

He won just as many titles and had one more MVP.

He scored 6,000 more points.

He made 19 All-Star teams! Mike made 14.

He was also #3 in rebounds and #3 in blocks all-time.

Kareem impacted the game more. Sorry but there's just no way a 6'6 shooting guard can have more of an impact on a game revolving around throwing a ball through a 10-foot cylinder than a 7'2 giant with a skyhook. It's just not possible.

Everyone remembers the shot Mike hit to win a title at UNC. Well Kareem won 3 titles at UCLA and went 88-2 in the process!

He dominated his peers at every level, not just one.

He impacted his teams, immediately.

Kareem played from 1969-1989; he matched up against everyone from Wilt to Hakeem. He was a dominant player for over a generation. Not to mention the 70s was the greatest era of big men.

[hkfosho]

Nope.

He won just as many titles and had one more MVP.

He scored 6,000 more points.

He made 19 All-Star teams! Mike made 14.

He was also #3 in rebounds and #3 in blocks all-time.

Kareem impacted the game more. Sorry but there's just no way a 6'6 shooting guard can have more of an impact on a game revolving around throwing a ball through a 10-foot cylinder than a 7'2 giant with a skyhook. It's just not possible.

Everyone remembers the shot Mike hit to win a title at UNC. Well Kareem won 3 titles at UCLA and went 88-2 in the process!

He dominated his peers at every level, not just one.

He impacted his teams, immediately.

Kareem played from 1969-1989; he matched up against everyone from Wilt to Hakeem. He was a dominant player for over a generation. Not to mention the 70s was the greatest era of big men.
You also forgot to mention that jordan was 6/6 in his finals championships where kareem was 6/10. he also won 6 finals MVP where kareem only won 2.
8 more scoring titles, 4 more all-defensive team awards, and averaging more ppg. Both in the season and playoffs, all while playing 5 seasons less. And you're talking about the 80s where defense was non existant.

Oh and he also won DPOY where kareem didn't.

[The Next Jordan]

He won just as many titles and had one more MVP.
And 4 less finals MVP's. He didn't win 6 titles as the main piece of his team.


He scored 6,000 more points.
and played 16,435 more minutes (or the equivalent of 342 full 48 minute games), and put up 3770 more shots. Moot point.


He made 19 All-Star teams! Mike made 14.
He played 20 seasons (most in NBA history) Mike played 15. It wasn't even possible for him to have made 19 all-star teams. :facepalm


He was also #3 in rebounds and #3 in blocks all-time.
He's a center. So there's no point in bringing that up in a MJ vs. Kareem debate.

[Ne 1]

And 4 less finals MVP's. He didn't win 6 titles as the main piece of his team.

Finals MVP is a pretty useless award. Also it didn't exist until '69, because had it did Russell would have more than anyone.

Ironic that FMVP's is used as primary supporting evidence of an argument against Kareem. Kareem was flat out robbed of the 1980's FMVP in favor of a popular, charismatic teammate and we are to act as if the award is legit? Paul Pierce, Tony Parker, Cedric Maxell, Joe Dumars, and Chauncey Billups all have FMVP's. Even John Starks came within one shot of winning a FMVP.

[hkfosho]

Finals MVP is a pretty useless award. Also it didn't exist until '69, because had it did Russell would have more than anyone.

Ironic that FMVP's is used as primary supporting evidence of an argument against Kareem. Kareem was flat out robbed of the 1980's FMVP in favor of a popular, charismatic teammate and we are to act as if the award is legit? Paul Pierce, Tony Parker, Cedric Maxell, Joe Dumars, and Chauncey Billups all have FMVP's. Even John Starks came within one shot of winning a FMVP.
Regardless of the FMVPs, jordan still has a better resume. He's the better player just get over it.

[Ne 1]

You also forgot to mention that jordan was 6/6 in his finals championships where kareem was 6/10. he also won 6 finals MVP where kareem only won 2.


Because losing in the playoffs or missing the playoffs is better than making it to the Finals and then losing right? :rolleyes:

Also a note on MVP's:

In 1980 sportswriters took over voting for MVP's. Before that the players themselves voted for the MVP award so Kareem's MVP's were being recognized by players, his peers... Jordan's were by sports writers

[Ne 1]

Regardless of the FMVPs, jordan still has a better resume. He's the better player just get over it.

If you value winning Bill Russell is GOAT. If you value peak play Kareem or Wilt is the GOAT. If you value both equally, Kareem is still arguably GOAT (6 rings + 10 Finals appearances in 80s/70s is more impressive than 6 rings in the 90s imo).

[hkfosho]

Because losing in the playoffs or missing the playoffs is better than making it to the Finals and then losing right? :rolleyes:

Also a note on MVP's:

In 1980 sportswriters took over voting for MVP's. Before that the players themselves voted for the MVP award so Kareem's MVP's were being recognized by players, his peers... Jordan's were by sports writers

had jordan played a longer career and not opt out for baseball in that one season, he wouldve definitely won more chips. Kareem took 10 tries to achieve 6 where jordan won all of his appearances.

And as for the mvp voting, jordan wouldve won way more if it was voted by players, just ask kareem's teammate magic johnson. :lol

[Ne 1]

Either way I would go with Kareem if I'm starting a franchisee.

[hkfosho]

If you value winning Bill Russell is GOAT. If you value peak play Kareem or Wilt is the GOAT. If you value both equally, Kareem is still arguably GOAT (6 rings + 10 Finals appearances in 80s/70s is more impressive than 6 rings in the 90s imo).

Playing in the 90s was much tougher than in the 70s/80s. Russell played in an era where there were half as many teams as there are today. Kareem's peak was nothing spectacular compared to jordan's.

[hkfosho]

Either way I would go with Kareem if I'm starting a franchisee.

And i'm sure a lot of laker fans share the same thoughts as you.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

where's jlauber when you need him? :oldlol:

[The Next Jordan]

Finals MVP is a pretty useless award. Also it didn't exist until '69, because had it did Russell would have more than anyone.

Ironic that FMVP's is used as primary supporting evidence of an argument against Kareem. Kareem was flat out robbed of the 1980's FMVP in favor of a popular, charismatic teammate and we are to act as if the award is legit? Paul Pierce, Tony Parker, Cedric Maxell, Joe Dumars, and Chauncey Billups all have FMVP's. Even John Starks came within one shot of winning a FMVP.
I like how you picked the one point out of the group of points I made that is mildly debatable.

[catch24]

Enough with the stupid threads. You don't need to tell any Kobe or Lakers fans what they already know. Only trolls, stans, and idiots (haters) concede differently.

[Boston C's]

If you value winning Bill Russell is GOAT. If you value peak play Kareem or Wilt is the GOAT. If you value both equally, Kareem is still arguably GOAT (6 rings + 10 Finals appearances in 80s/70s is more impressive than 6 rings in the 90s imo).

I always thought chamberlain was overrated if he played in a decent era of big men he wouldnt put up the numbers he has...not to mention he has only 2 titles to show for it while being practically the only 7 footer in his era... and my opinion just for the heck of it is MJ> the Kareem and MJ is G.O.A.T. Thats only my respective opinion, I can see the argument for Kareem his resume is impressive but I just think that Wilt was a bit overrated

[kingkong]

uhhhh Wilt was one of the greatest athletes of all time, he would be really good in any era

the guy was 7'1 and around 300lbs

[Ne 1]

had jordan played a longer career and not opt out for baseball in that one season, he wouldve definitely won more chips. Kareem took 10 tries to achieve 6 where jordan won all of his appearances.


This isn't even a fair comparison anyway because Kareem lost to the Bird-led Celtics (twice), which were some of the greatest teams ever, the '83 Sixers (also one of the greatest teams ever) and during the Sixers series James Worthy and McAdoo were both injured (basically their entire bench!) and Worthy didn't play a single game in the Finals. Magic and Norm Nixon also stunk it up (shot 40% each), but Kareem carried his own weight. The '74 Celtics (with an aging Oscar playing like his 3rd best player...seriously ANY help at all, and he wins that game 7). Not to mention the 80's Celtics and Sixers are much better than the Lakers, Blazers, Suns, Sonics and Jazz teams Jordan went up against. Those squads wouldn't stand a chance against the 80's Celtics and Sixers.

The key when people look at Kareem's 6 rings and Jordan's 6 rings is that Kareem didn't even have a great team around him for most of his prime, whereas Jordan did. Still it doesn't matter, Kareem won 6 rings, 3 of them clearly as the best player, remained the go-to guy until the 5th ring. Statistically more dominant than Jordan. More valuable to his teams than Jordan (seriously 26 wins to 56 wins? That's insane!). No one is matching Kareem's production over an entire decade either.

As far as MVP goes the Bucks went from 26 wins to 56 wins when Kareem was added (BTW, Oscar wasn't even added yet!). Bucks made no other significant additions and in fact lost their 3rd leading scorer.

Bucks were on pace for 15-20 wins when Kareem broke his hand, and then when he came back they won at a pace of 55 wins. Lakers, when he broke his hand for a second time in '78, also were a lottery bound team without him.

His value to teams he led in his prime is just absolutely remarkable. Anyone else embody the title of MVP more than him?!

[Calabis]

Kareem > Jordan

NEXT

At least that is worth a debate...Kobe not so much

[Ne 1]

At least that is worth a debate...Kobe not so much

Yet it's the most debated topic in basketball. :oldlol:

If it wasn't worth debating then nobody would.....

[Calabis]

Yet it's the most debated topic in basketball. :oldlol:

If it wasn't worth debating then nobody would.....

Because you and u'r fellow stans overrate the hell out of Kobe, which forces several people to point out all of his flaws(in u'r world haters, in my world pointing out the obvious)...I have no problem with people saying Wilt or Kareem being better than MJ, at least they have the overall dominance of their peers and competition, to back up their claims....Kobe....:no:

[AlphaWolf24]

meh....Kobe is still only 32 years old.....he has alot more basketball left.

Wait until his career is over before we judge him.

7 NBA Finals in 10 years as a starter and the premiere player for over a decade....think twice before discounting Kobe's career from here on out.

MJ won 3 more titles after 32 years old.....Kobe is still Dre.

[blablabla]

Playing in the 90s was much tougher than in the 70s/80s. Russell played in an era where there were half as many teams as there are today. Kareem's peak was nothing spectacular compared to jordan's.
:roll:

[AirJordan&Magic]

You also forgot to mention that jordan was 6/6 in his finals championships where kareem was 6/10. he also won 6 finals MVP where kareem only won 2.
8 more scoring titles, 4 more all-defensive team awards, and averaging more ppg. Both in the season and playoffs, all while playing 5 seasons less. And you're talking about the 80s where defense was non existant.

Oh and he also won DPOY where kareem didn't.

Not that I disagree with you, because I honestly think that the "G.O.A.T" title can be argued either way between Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Michael Jordan, and Bill Russell.
As crazy as this is going to sound, as an individual player, I even think a prime Shaq has a case.

But anyway, there were some things in your post that wasn't put into proper context.

First, the Dpoy award was not even handed out until 1983. Though Kareem was still a defensive anchor for the Lakers, he was way past his prime. I'm pretty sure he would've have won at least two dpoy awards if it existed during his prime years.

And imo, in terms of scoring titles, you also have to compare shot attempts per game and also the eras. In two of the four seasons Kareem averaged 30+ ppg, he didn't win the scoring title.
For example, Kevin Durant won the scoring title this year averaging "only" 27.7ppg. Kareem topped that 8 times in his career.... Not making excuses, I just think comparing scoring titles should be put in proper context.

I can agree with the rest of your post.

[Ne 1]

Because you and u'r fellow stans overrate the hell out of Kobe, which forces several people to point out all of his flaws(in u'r world haters, in my world pointing out the obvious)...I have no problem with people saying Wilt or Kareem being better than MJ, at least they have the overall dominance of their peers and competition, to back up their claims....Kobe....:no:

Just shows how insecure MJ stans are.

If you honestly believed it wasn't worth debating than nobody would.

[AirJordan&Magic]

meh....Kobe is still only 32 years old.....he has alot more basketball left.

Wait until his career is over before we judge him.

7 NBA Finals in 10 years as a starter and the premiere player for over a decade....think twice before discounting Kobe's career from here on out.

MJ won 3 more titles after 32 years old.....Kobe is still Dre.

:oldlol: no, Kobe is simply just not as good as Michael Jordan and he never will be. Michael Jordan won 3 more titles after the age of 32 while still playing at a dominant level..... Kobe, not so much.

Kobe is an all time great and is a top 7-8 player of all time, but he will never surpass the likes of Michael Jordan, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Bill Russell, and Magic Johnson. I don't even have him over Shaq at this point.

[Ne 1]

Anyway this is the majority opinion:

http://oi55.tinypic.com/30ii4k3.jpg

[OldSchoolBBall]

Kobe is par with Jordan in terms of skill and talent. I always felt the biggest difference between the two was the way they applied their skills, which to me is a product moreso of IQ. Jordan's is superior.... that and Jordan simply has physical advantages over Kobe that allowed him to do a few things that Kobe simply isn't physically capable of.

Kobe certainly is not as talented as Jordan, nor as skilled (though that gap is closer). Jordan revolutionized the game, changed it forever, and was the most creative player in history. Kobe, not so much.

[Ne 1]

Kobe certainly is not as talented as Jordan, nor as skilled (though that gap is closer). Jordan revolutionized the game, changed it forever, and was the most creative player in history. Kobe, not so much.

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/11/10/33de8e47-d6d6-4d31-ba9a-8aef5d97b2a3.jpg

[AlphaWolf24]

:oldlol: no, Kobe is simply just not as good as Michael Jordan and he never will be. Michael Jordan won 3 more titles after the age of 32 while still playing at a dominant level..... Kobe, not so much.

Kobe is an all time great and is a top 7-8 player of all time, but he will never surpass the likes of Michael Jordan, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Bill Russell, and Magic Johnson. I don't even have him over Shaq at this point.


to who ??:confusedshrug:

Majority of fans already have him top 3 - 5 players ever....only the hardcore online fans (Minority) use flawed stats to slight Kobe.

Kobe is comparable to MJ...and at 32 has alot of basketball left...
I'll Bump this in awhile when Kobe keeps winning.


next

[OldSchoolBBall]

Because losing in the playoffs or missing the playoffs is better than making it to the Finals and then losing right? :rolleyes:

Also a note on MVP's:

In 1980 sportswriters took over voting for MVP's. Before that the players themselves voted for the MVP award so Kareem's MVP's were being recognized by players, his peers... Jordan's were by sports writers

Jordan won 7 Sporting News MVP awards, which are voted on by players. So he actually would have won at least 2 more MVP's than he actually did if it were voted on by players instead of sportswriters etc. Jordan probably would have been voted MVP by the players every year from 1989 onward at the latest, maybe even 1988. 7+ MVP's at least.

[hkfosho]

to who ??:confusedshrug:

Majority of fans already have him top 3 - 5 players ever....only the hardcore online fans (Minority) use flawed stats to slight Kobe.

Kobe is comparable to MJ...and at 32 has alot of basketball left...
I'll Bump this in awhile when Kobe keeps winning.


next
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[BlackJoker23]

Jordan won 7 Sporting News MVP awards, which are voted on by players. So he actually would have won at least 2 more MVP's than he actually did if it were voted on by players instead of sportswriters etc. Jordan probably would have been voted MVP by the players every year from 1989 onward at the latest, maybe even 1988. 7+ MVP's at least.
jordan won sporting news mvp in 88, 89, 91, 92, 96, 97 and 98. :bowdown:

[AlphaWolf24]

Kobe certainly is not as talented as Jordan, nor as skilled (though that gap is closer). Jordan revolutionized the game, changed it forever, and was the most creative player in history. Kobe, not so much.


Kobe skillwise is IMO is better then Jordan was...MJ had slightly better athleticism...but Kobe skillwise is better.

Jordan revolutionized the way athletes were marketed...but Bird and Magic changed the Game and had a bigger impact on Basketball then MJ ever did.

Kobe is nowhere near being close to done....alot more winning left.

Winning> moving shoes....

[AlphaWolf24]

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yes because Jordan never lost...:applause:

5 Losing seasons says Hi....

[AirJordan&Magic]

to who ??:confusedshrug:

Majority of fans already have him top 3 - 5 players ever....only the hardcore online fans (Minority) use flawed stats to slight Kobe.

Kobe is comparable to MJ...and at 32 has alot of basketball left...
I'll Bump this in awhile when Kobe keeps winning.


next

To people that actually know about other legend's career. And what majority?.... Who (besides young Kobe trolls) actually have Kobe ranked over Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Shaquille O'neal, and Magic Johnson?

[AlphaWolf24]

Anyway this is the majority opinion:

http://oi55.tinypic.com/30ii4k3.jpg



bu...bu...bu....but......Hardcore fan uses per.:lol

[hkfosho]

yes because Jordan never lost...:applause:

5 Losing seasons says Hi....
6/6 in finals says hi :lol

[Calabis]

Just shows how insecure MJ stans are.

If you honestly believed it wasn't worth debating than nobody would.

Insecure??? :roll: , why because I disprove most of the crap u guys put out there? Sorry, I'm a fan of basketball and I'm not going to watch bs being posted(trying to be passed as fact). Its a joke and its embarrassing, imo. I feel bad for Kobe, because he never asked for these moron stans, I feel bad for real Laker fans, because they actually support their team and the guy that is leading them. Yet they come on here and see that you stans have created a negative vibe against a player they support....which has to suck, because a guy they are a fan of(not a stan of) is getting his negatives pointed out far more than any other player in NBA history....why because you stans diminish other greats, make up crap, give hypotheticals and what ifs on a daily basis.

Similar to u bs poll u posted....87K fans are now the majority?? LMAO, how many 40-70 year olds voted on that poll?? U r trying to pass it as fact, when its just a poll which was probably voted on by 90% of this current generation.

So enjoy posting the tall tales and I will keep putting holes in those tales with facts.

[AlphaWolf24]

To people that actually know about other legend's career. And what majority?.... Who (besides young Kobe trolls) actually have Kobe ranked over Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Shaquille O'neal, and Magic Johnson?


Most recent polls I have viewed has Kobe top 3 - 5 alltime...and I agree.

Kobe>Bird, Shaq , Duncan , Russ , Wilt......only players I can see over Kobe are Magic, Jordan and Kareem.....for now.

[AirJordan&Magic]

Kobe skillwise is IMO is better then Jordan was...MJ had slightly better athleticism...but Kobe skillwise is better.

Jordan revolutionized the way athletes were marketed...but Bird and Magic changed the Game and had a bigger impact on Basketball then MJ ever did.

Kobe is nowhere near being close to done....alot more winning left.

Winning> moving shoes....

Idk about him being better than Jordan skillwise. However, I will say that Kobe (from 2002-2008) at his best, was at most on par with Jordan skillwise. At least, imo.

However, as someone else said, it's not just about skill. It's about how you apply your skills to the game.... And Kobe simply has never applied his skillset the way Jordan has done.

[AlphaWolf24]

6/6 in finals says hi :lol


ay 32 years old...both players.....5/7 or 3/3....I'll take 5/7...



next.

[AlphaWolf24]

Idk about him being better than Jordan skillwise. However, I will say that Kobe (from 2002-2008) at his best, was at most on par with Jordan skillwise. At least, imo.

However, as someone else said, it's not just about skill. It's about how you apply your skills to the game.... And Kobe simply has never applied his skillset the way Jordan has done.

again..at similiar ages(32) Kobe is 5/7 in the Finals while MJ was 3/3....I think Kobe was applying his skills just fine IMO.

[hkfosho]

ay 32 years old...both players.....5/7 or 3/3....I'll take 5/7...



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5/7, 3 while being a sidekick. Ill take 3/3 as the leader.

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[AirJordan&Magic]

Most recent polls I have viewed has Kobe top 3 - 5 alltime...and I agree.

Kobe>Bird, Shaq , Duncan , Russ , Wilt......only players I can see over Kobe are Magic, Jordan and Kareem.....for now.

Exactly what argument do Kobe have over Wilt, Bird, Russell, and Shaq? Besides rings over Wilt and Shaq? And Kobe being a way better scorer than Russell and Bird....

Other than, what argument do Kobe have over those four guys?

[Ne 1]

Insecure??? :roll: , why because I disprove most of the crap u guys put out there? Sorry, I'm a fan of basketball and I'm not going to watch bs being posted(trying to be passed as fact). Its a joke and its embarrassing, imo. I feel bad for Kobe, because he never asked for these moron stans, I feel bad for real Laker fans, because they actually support their team and the guy that is leading them. Yet they come on here and see that you stans have created a negative vibe against a player they support....which has to suck, because a guy they are a fan of(not a stan of) is getting his negatives pointed out far more than any other player in NBA history....why because you stans diminish other greats, make up crap, give hypotheticals and what ifs on a daily basis.

Similar to u bs poll u posted....87K fans are now the majority?? LMAO, how many 40-70 year olds voted on that poll?? U r trying to pass it as fact, when its just a poll which was probably voted on by 90% of this current generation.

So enjoy posting the tall tales and I will keep putting holes in those tales with facts.

Amazing how worked up you get over 1 player. Throwing temper tantrums because a few kids think that Kobe is the best ever or better than Jordan. :oldlol:

But anyway, why even argue something if it holds no merit? Obviously it does.

[talkingconch]

I've been a fan of Kobe's for most of his career but I always thought that comparing Kobe Bryant to Michael Jordan was the equivalent of comparing Usher to Michael Jackson.

Yeah it makes sense in the grand scheme of things b/c obviously they're both influenced by their industry's respective G.O.A.T.s but really? Has it ever been worth a serious debate?

I typically don't waste my time arguing with Kobe fans who take it too far and try to say Kobe's better than MJ...

To me, that was like arguing with a 15 year old girl who was mesmerized by Confessions and never saw Thriller, never listened to the entire Bad or Off the Wall albums, never saw Motown 25 or a MJ concert performance, and never heard a Jackson 5 greatest hits. Sometimes when you have to just nod your head and smile...

As a Kobe guy, it's not over til it's over. But please stop the Kobe> Jordan sh*t. Some of you guys are showing ur age...(ugh em!, 90's babies...smh)
You just look silly and naive.

Awful comparison, trying to look smart.

[zay_24]

Kobe is a proven better shooter,scorer and defender than Mgay
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[AlphaWolf24]

5/7, 3 while being a sidekick. Ill take 3/3 as the leader.

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Kobe in the 01 playoffs 29PPG 6reb 5ast.....Wade in the 06' playoffs 28PPG 5reb 5ast..



http://images4.fanpop.com/image/user_images/2173000/AlphaWolf-2173769_596_800.jpg

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[AlphaWolf24]

Exactly what argument do Kobe have over Wilt, Bird, Russell, and Shaq? Besides rings over Wilt and Shaq? And Kobe being a way better scorer than Russell and Bird....

Other than, what argument do Kobe have over those four guys?


What arguement's does Jordan have over Wilt and Russell and Bird????..looks like the same for Kobe to me:confusedshrug:

[AirJordan&Magic]

again..at similiar ages(32) Kobe is 5/7 in the Finals while MJ was 3/3....I think Kobe was applying his skills just fine IMO.

I never said he wasn't. Just has not appliead it anywhere near the way Jordan has. That is exactly why Jordan is EASILY a better basketball player.

Imo, there is no reason that Kobe should not be averaging about 28.0 ppg 6.0 rpg and 6.0 apg for his career. There has not been alot of players in Nba history that can say they were as talented and gifted as Kobe in the game of basketball.

But, Kobe doesn't use his talent the right way at times. And as a guy that has been a fan of Kobe for more than a decade, it is disappointing to think about sometimes.

[hkfosho]

Kobe in the 01 playoffs 29PPG 6reb 5ast.....Wade in the 06' playoffs 28PPG 5reb 5ast..



http://images4.fanpop.com/image/user_images/2173000/AlphaWolf-2173769_596_800.jpg

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Shaq still had better numbers during the threepeat than kobe, and was the clear leader.

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[Kujo]

I approve this thread. :D

In all seriousness, the outcome of the series won't change their opinions.

[C-Webb4]

LOL at Kobe above Kareem

[AlphaWolf24]

Shaq still had better numbers during the threepeat than kobe, and was the clear leader.

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Nope..Kobe was cleary the Man in Crunchtime and the 4th quarters....taking More shots (9) then Shaq (6) and scoring more points in the 4th during 01 - 02 playoff's...

Kobe skillset was more valuable in the 4th and allowed him to close games...Shaq has never had the Skillset to be the "man" in crunchtime...the Lakers were calling timeouts to get him on the bench....the other teams were fouling him to get the ball back.

Shaq left and Kobe has been to 3 straight NBA Finals.....Kobe was and is a more valuable piece.



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[Nevaeh]

Kobe is a proven better shooter,scorer and defender than Mgay
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Ahhh, so that explains why he was coming off the bench and had to wait 8 years to become a Franchise Player. :lol

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[catch24]

You know what's funny about these Kobe stans? They'll all be signed off and on vacation 'till next season if the Mavs complete the sweep.

[AlphaWolf24]

I never said he wasn't. Just has not appliead it anywhere near the way Jordan has. That is exactly why Jordan is EASILY a better basketball player.

Imo, there is no reason that Kobe should not be averaging about 28.0 ppg 6.0 rpg and 6.0 apg for his career. There has not been alot of players in Nba history that can say they were as talented and gifted as Kobe in the game of basketball.

But, Kobe doesn't use his talent the right way at times. And as a guy that has been a fan of Kobe for more than a decade, it is disappointing to think about sometimes.


WTF??...from ages 21 - 32 and as a "starter" Kobe's averages are 28.5 6reb 5ast:confusedshrug: nearly Identical to MJ's 30ppg 6reb 5ast....


Kobe barely played his first few years...playing 10 - 15 minutes as a 17 - 18 year old will do that.....

MJ was playing against Idaho st. at 18.

[hkfosho]

Nope..Kobe was cleary the Man in Crunchtime and the 4th quarters....taking More shots (9) then Shaq (6) and scoring more points in the 4th during 01 - 02 playoff's...

Kobe skillset was more valuable in the 4th and allowed him to close games...Shaq has never had the Skillset to be the "man" in crunchtime...the Lakers were calling timeouts to get him on the bench....the other teams were fouling him to get the ball back.

Shaq left and Kobe has been to 3 straight NBA Finals.....Kobe was and is a more valuable piece.



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Too bad you can't compare players solely from "crunchtime" plays. Overall, shaq was the more efficient and contributive player on the floor in their threepeat. Stats dont lie.

Shaq left and kobe didnt even make it to the finals until gasol and bynum helped him out lol. Even last years FMVP is debatable as a lot of ppl felt it was gasol who lead the team.

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[Calabis]

Amazing how worked up you get over 1 player. Throwing temper tantrums because a few kids think that Kobe is the best ever or better than Jordan. :oldlol:

But anyway, why even argue something if it holds no merit? Obviously it does.

Worked up??? LMAO!!! U act like I sit here getting mad and suicidal:roll: its actually the opposite, more on the comical side...because 99.9% of it is easy to disprove....arguing usually involves anger

I call it debating..and usually a debate starts over facts....since Kobestans rarely post any facts, can i really call it a debate?

[Ne 1]

Shaq left and kobe didnt even make it to the finals until gasol and bynum helped him out lol. Even last years FMVP is debatable as a lot of ppl felt it was gasol who lead the team.

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Jordan couldn't even make it past the first round of the playoffs and was 1-9 until Pippen came along.

Even 2 of Jordan's FMVPs are debatable.

As a great man once said "without Scottie Pippen, Micheal Jordan would be nothing more than a bald headed Dominique Wilkins".

[Ne 1]

Worked up??? LMAO!!! U act like I sit here getting mad and suicidal:roll: its actually the opposite, more on the comical side...because 99.9% of it is easy to disprove....arguing usually involves anger

I call it debating..and usually a debate starts over facts....since Kobestans rarely post any facts, can i really call it a debate?

*Some kid says Kobe is better than Jordan

* Calabis: "b-b-but my childhood! NBA on NBC! Bob Costas! Space Jam! :banghead: :rant :mad: *goes on long tirade about why Jordan is the better than Kobe*

Amazing that you have to spew so much crap just to get your point across about something that isn't "worthy of debating" according to you. Stay contradicting yourself....

[hkfosho]

Jordan couldn't even make it past the first round of the playoffs and was 1-9 until Pippen came along.

Even 2 of Jordan's FMVPs are debatable.

As a great man once said "without Scottie Pippen, Micheal Jordan would be nothing more than a bald headed Dominique Wilkins".
And that's why jordan averaged 34 ppg in the playoffs while being the leader right? He was clearly the best player on his team, only a retard would think otherwise. you take pippen out of jordan's team? Let's take shaq/gasol out from kobe and see what he accomplishes lol.

[Ne 1]

And that's why jordan averaged 34 ppg in the playoffs while being the leader right? He was clearly the best player on his team, only a retard would think otherwise. you take pippen out of jordan's team? Let's take shaq/gasol out from kobe and see what he accomplishes lol.

Please....before Pippen came along Jordan was Tracy Mcgrady of the 80s.

Couldn't get past the first round! :lol

[hkfosho]

Please....before Pippen came along Jordan was Tracy Mcgrady of the 80s.

Couldn't get past the first round! :lol
I know right?! Because tmac won the mvp award and scored 63 on bird's celtics while playing with scrubs on his team! And what did kobe accomplish after shaq left him? Didn't even reach the playoffs:lol

[Ne 1]

I know right?! Because tmac won the mvp award and scored 63 on bird's celtics while playing with scrubs on his team! And what did kobe accomplish after shaq left him? Didn't even reach the playoffs:lol

Scottie Pippen's record in seasons without MJ: 317-225 (.585)
20-23 in the playoffs

Michael Jordan's record in seasons without Pippen: 182-228 (.444)
1-9 in the playoffs

:lol

He scored 63 points and got SWEPT!

BTW Jordan had scored 49 points on the Celtics in Game 1 a couple days earlier and the Bulls got crushed. The Celtics attitude was that one player was not going to beat this team, especially at home, where they had only lost one time all year.

So they LET Jordan have his points that game and it almost cost them dearly. Jordan missed a wide open 15 footer with 3 seconds in the first overtime, that most likely would have won the game. :oldlol:

After that close call, Boston put the clamps down on Jordan in game 3, holding him to 19 points (only 5 in the final 3 quarters) before he fouled out.

[Ne 1]

Jordan was replaced by a CBA journeyman named Pete Myers and Scottie without MJ won 55 games (only drooped 2 games then the year before with MJ)

Plus, they even make it to the 2nd round of the playoffs, with Scottie, and without Michael...which is better than they ever did with Michael/but without Scottie...In 1994, Scottie became the 2nd player in NBA history to lead his team in scoring, rebounding, assists, blocks and steals... yeah, Michael made him better.


Jordan played five years of his career without Pippen. ALL FIVE WERE LOSING TEAMS.


As a great man once said, without Scottie Pippen, Jordan was nothing more than a bald-headed Dominique Wilkins.

The Bulls dropped TWO GAMES after losing the "greatest player of all time" LOL Yeah, right


Remembered that they won 55 without Michael but with Scottie, which is fine... how'd they do WITH Michael but WITHOUT Scottie? Let's check:

38, 30 and 40 wins... that's it... aw, that's too bad... 40 wins is SO CLOSE to a .500 season, I'd almost want to give Michael credit for a winning season that year... but I can't... a loser is a loser. I can't change the laws of mathematics... if you lose more games than you win, you're a LOSER! And that's what Michael was without Scottie as a teammate... sorry if the truth hurts, but you Jordan jockers (hopefully) will get over it.

[Dragonyeuw]

WTF??...from ages 21 - 32 and as a "starter" Kobe's averages are 28.5 6reb 5ast:confusedshrug: nearly Identical to MJ's 30ppg 6reb 5ast....





If you're deducting Kobe's worst statistical seasons to show what he did in his prime, then it's only fair to do the same for Jordan. Jordan's 2 footnote Wizard years, when he averaged 22.9 and 20.0, and his second year when he was injury plagued and averaged 22.7 in 18 games, statistically weren't representative of his prime in the same way Kobe's first 3 years didn't statistically represent his prime. Jordan's averages without those 3 statistically anomalous years are:

31.4ppg, 6.4rpg 5.4 apg.

Jordan averaged 3 more points per game, without nearly as prolific a 3 point shot. Rebounds and assists are pretty equitable. I haven't bothered to include steals and overall shooting percentage, clearly advantage Jordan in those areas as well.

[hkfosho]

Jordan was replaced by a CBA journeyman named Pete Myers and Scottie without MJ won 55 games (only drooped 2 games then the year before with MJ)

Plus, they even make it to the 2nd round of the playoffs, with Scottie, and without Michael...which is better than they ever did with Michael/but without Scottie...In 1994, Scottie became the 2nd player in NBA history to lead his team in scoring, rebounding, assists, blocks and steals... yeah, Michael made him better.


Jordan played five years of his career without Pippen. ALL FIVE WERE LOSING TEAMS.


As a great man once said, without Scottie Pippen, Jordan was nothing more than a bald-headed Dominique Wilkins.

The Bulls dropped TWO GAMES after losing the "greatest player of all time" LOL Yeah, right


Remembered that they won 55 without Michael but with Scottie, which is fine... how'd they do WITH Michael but WITHOUT Scottie? Let's check:

38, 30 and 40 wins... that's it... aw, that's too bad... 40 wins is SO CLOSE to a .500 season, I'd almost want to give Michael credit for a winning season that year... but I can't... a loser is a loser. I can't change the laws of mathematics... if you lose more games than you win, you're a LOSER! And that's what Michael was without Scottie as a teammate... sorry if the truth hurts, but you Jordan jockers (hopefully) will get over it.

Atleast jordan made it to the playoffs :lol

all kobe did was piss phil off while watching his former teammate win a title in his living room after that horrendous 34-48 season. Couldnt even reach 8th seed LOL

[AlphaWolf24]

If you're deducting Kobe's worst statistical seasons to show what he did in his prime, then it's only fair to do the same for Jordan. Jordan's 2 footnote Wizard years, when he averaged 22.9 and 20.0, and his second year when he was injury plagued and averaged 22.7 in 18 games, statistically weren't representative of his prime in the same way Kobe's first 3 years didn't statistically represent his prime. Jordan's averages without those 3 statistically anomalous years are:

31.4ppg, 6.4rpg 5.4 apg.

Jordan averaged 3 more points per game, without nearly as prolific a 3 point shot. Rebounds and assists are pretty equitable. I haven't bothered to include steals and overall shooting percentage, clearly advantage Jordan in those areas as well.


ok...fine marginal stats....at similar ages Kobe has done a far better job at winning....take your 3 points ..I would take the player that wins more.:confusedshrug:

[AlphaWolf24]

Too bad you can't compare players solely from "crunchtime" plays. Overall, shaq was the more efficient and contributive player on the floor in their threepeat. Stats dont lie.

Shaq left and kobe didnt even make it to the finals until gasol and bynum helped him out lol. Even last years FMVP is debatable as a lot of ppl felt it was gasol who lead the team.

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:lol ..all the time.

Shaq played on 6 , 50 win teams without Kobe...capable of winning Titles ....

he won 1 as a sidekick...meanwhile Kobe has been to 3 straight without Shaq....stats don't lie....

[Dragonyeuw]

ok...fine marginal stats....at similar ages Kobe has done a far better job at winning....take your 3 points ..I would take the player that wins more.:confusedshrug:

I'm only doing the same thing you're doing:arbitrarily taking out each player's worst statistical, non-prime years to give an accurate picture of each player's statistical output when they were at their respective best.

Now you've moved the goal post over to 'who wins more' which had nothing to do with your original point or my counter to that point. I won't bother to bring up that Kobe joined a team that was in a far greater position to win than Jordan did in 1984. That has ZERO bearing on the circumstances surrounding how each man won, right? Jordan with a weak team from 1984-1987 equals....first round exit. Kobe with a weak team from 2004-2007 equals......first round exit. Can you tell me what's the difference here?

And until Kobe passes Jordan in ring count, then he hasn't won more :confusedshrug: ?

[Ne 1]

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/user_images/2124000/AlphaWolf-2124805_300_300.jpg

[AlphaWolf24]

I'm only doing the same thing you're doing:arbitrarily taking out each player's worst statistical, non-prime years to give an accurate picture of each player's statistical output when they were at their respective best.

Now you've moved the goal post over to 'who wins more' which had nothing to do with your original point or my counter to that point. I won't bother to bring up that Kobe joined a team that was in a far greater position to win than Jordan did in 1984. That has ZERO bearing on the circumstances surrounding how each man won, right? Jordan with a weak team from 1984-1987 equals....first round exit. Kobe with a weak team from 2004-2007 equals......first round exit. Can you tell me what's the difference here?

And until Kobe passes Jordan in ring count, then he hasn't won more :confusedshrug: ?


umm....(I think it was your post) you said you see no reason why Kobe shouldn't have averaged 28PPG 5reb 5ast ....but as a starter for over a decade he did...

then you took out MJ's last 2 years at the same age Grant Hill is now to prove MJ scored 3 more points?:confusedshrug:

My point was showing that Kobe wins at a greater pace then Jordan did....while putting up comparable stats...

I see now why you want to use the tired "MJ had no teamates excuse"..because he doesn't impact the win/loss column like other top 10 players...as proven through History


The lakers didn't win anything until Kobe became a Bonified NBA Starter able to be the First option or the "man" in the 4th quarters....Jordan wasn't able to win until his 7th NBA Season at 28 years old with a top 50 alltime teamate and until the great 80's teams got old or dismantled....wash to me?:confusedshrug:

[OmniStrife]

umm....(I think it was your post) you said you see no reason why Kobe shouldn't have averaged 28PPG 5reb 5ast ....but as a starter for over a decade he did...

then you took out MJ's last 2 years at the same age Grant Hill is now to prove MJ scored 3 more points?:confusedshrug:

My point was showing that Kobe wins at a greater pace then Jordan did....while putting up comparable stats...

I see now why you want to use the tired "MJ had no teamates excuse"..because he doesn't impact the win/loss column like other top 10 players...as proven through History


The lakers didn't win anything until Kobe became a Bonified NBA Starter able to be the First option or the "man" in the 4th quarters....Jordan wasn't able to win until his 7th NBA Season at 28 years old with a top 50 alltime teamate and until the great 80's teams got old or dismantled....wash to me?:confusedshrug:

Just give it a rest, your guy missed the playoffs without Gasol, and is being swept this year (again, without Gasol :lol)

[Dragonyeuw]

umm....(I think it was your post) you said you see no reason why Kobe shouldn't have averaged 28PPG 5reb 5ast ....but as a starter for over a decade he did...

then you took out MJ's last 2 years at the same age Grant Hill is now to prove MJ scored 3 more points?:confusedshrug:

My point was showing that Kobe wins at a greater pace then Jordan did....while putting up comparable stats...

I see now why you want to use the tired "MJ had no teamates excuse"..because he doesn't impact the win/loss column like other top 10 players...as proven through History


The lakers didn't win anything until Kobe became a Bonified NBA Starter able to be the First option or the "man" in the 4th quarters....Jordan wasn't able to win until his 7th NBA Season at 28 years old with a top 50 alltime teamate and until the great 80's teams got old or dismantled....wash to me?:confusedshrug:

No, it wasn't my post. Perhaps you should clarify what you're arguing first by looking back.

Yes, I took out Jordan's worst statistical seasons. The same thing you did for Kobe. That's the only way to make it an apples to apples argument, but if you're interested in cherrypicking whatever you can to inch Kobe's stats closer to Jordan's, be my guest.

That the Lakers didn't win until Kobe became a star has little to do with the fact that Kobe JOINED a playoff caliber team... Jordan joined a lottery team. Thus Kobe was put in position to win sooner. Are you saying that's not the case?

So.....Kobe didn't come out of the gate with an advantage playing with an about to enter his prime Shaq, two all-star quality guards in Jones and Van Exel, a decent PF in Campbell? And you're comparing his circumstances to what Jordan entered the league with? In Kobe's rookie year, when he was essentially a non-factor, the Lakers won 56 games. Clearly they stunk until Kobe became a great player........

[AlphaWolf24]

No, it wasn't my post. Perhaps you should clarify what you're arguing first by looking back.

Yes, I took out Jordan's worst statistical seasons. The same thing you did for Kobe. That's the only way to make it an apples to apples argument, but if you're interested in cherrypicking whatever you can to inch Kobe's stats closer to Jordan's, be my guest.

That the Lakers didn't win until Kobe became a star has little to do with the fact that Kobe JOINED a playoff caliber team... Jordan joined a lottery team. Thus Kobe was put in position to win sooner. Are you saying that's not the case?

So.....Kobe didn't come out of the gate with an advantage playing with an about to enter his prime Shaq, two all-star quality guards in Jones and Van Exel, a decent PF in Campbell? And you're comparing his circumstances to what Jordan entered the league with?

apples to apples???....a 18 year old playing 10 minutes a game is the same as a NBA Starter at playing 34+ minutes???...only to Jordan stans.


ok ....teamates?....should Jordan's have won a championship his first 3 years?...no...but his teamates excuse is tired and silly.

Jordan stans disregard Woolridge , Oakley , Green and Gervin to say Jordan has excuses for not winning.

Losing team without Jordan...Losing team with Jordan....did he make them slightly better?...maybe, but he had Nowhere near the Impact as other greats...are you saying that isn't the case??...


just more Jordan Jocking excuses IMO.

[RoseCity07]

No because Usher has had two major albums released with at least 7 or 8 major hits.

Kobe never got it done as the man. As we can see just how good Kobe is when Gasol is not playing well.

[Dragonyeuw]

apples to apples???....a 18 year old playing 10 minutes a game is the same as a NBA Starter at playing 34+ minutes???...only to Jordan stans.


ok ....teamates?....should Jordan's have won a championship his first 3 years?...no...but his teamates excuse is tired and silly.

Jordan stans disregard Woolridge , Oakley , Green and Gervin to say Jordan has excuses for not winning.

Losing team without Jordan...Losing team with Jordan....did he make them slightly better?...maybe, but he had Nowhere near the Impact as other greats...are you saying that isn't the case??...


just more Jordan Jocking excuses IMO.

Believe it or not, I'm a fan of both Jordan and Kobe. I know, must be hard for you to compute that, right? Because if anyone makes any argument against Kobe, they must be a hater right? A stans? Never heard that before I came on this forum. What the hell is that?

So Woolridge, a past his prime Gervin, a young Oakley equals Shaq, Jones, Van Exel, Ceballos, Campbell? Cool story....You trivialize how valuable a prime Shaq is to providing that foundation for the Lakers to win those titles. Yeah yeah, Kobe was the closer, Lakers didn't win till Kobe became great...yadda yadda. I'll save you the effort of writing that in your reply. No-one can seriously say( well besides you) that Jordan's teammates from the outset in any way equals what Kobe started with. Shaq by himself is more of a difference maker than Woolridge, old Gervin, Oakley,etc.

The fact is, Jordan and Kobe's careers are too dissimilar to make any kind of true apples to apples comparison.

[SkyR#1fanCapCou]

Jordan played all of 18 regular season games with Gervin in Gervin's last season in the NBA.

Woolridge? Oakley? smh

[AlphaWolf24]

Believe it or not, I'm a fan of both Jordan and Kobe. I know, must be hard for you to compute that, right? Because if anyone makes any argument against Kobe, they must be a hater right? A stans? Never heard that before I came on this forum. What the hell is that?

So Woolridge, a past his prime Gervin, a young Oakley equals Shaq, Jones, Van Exel, Ceballos, Campbell? Cool story....You trivialize how valuable a prime Shaq is to providing that foundation for the Lakers to win those titles. Yeah yeah, Kobe was the closer, Lakers didn't win till Kobe became great...yadda yadda. I'll save you the effort of writing that in your reply. No-one can seriously say( well besides you) that Jordan's teammates from the outset in any way equals what Kobe started with. Shaq by himself is more of a difference maker than Woolridge, old Gervin, Oakley,etc.

The fact is, Jordan and Kobe's careers are too dissimilar to make any kind of true apples to apples comparison.


yes that's why I said the Bull's weren't a championship caliber team .....but you make it seem like Kobe is just lucky to have played with "special players" that No NBA Team has ever had:lol

Shaq played on 6 50+ win teams without Kobe.....No where near the success he had with Kobe.

Duncan played on a Championship caliber team since his rookie season...Lebron has been on Championship caliber teams for the past 5 years, Durant is in his 3rd season and is already on a championship caliber team , Magic , Bird , Russell all played on great teams.....Jordan has played with HOF Teamates and allstars since his rookie year....

But lets slight Kobe for playing with Shaq and Eddie Jones:confusedshrug:

Hilarious.:lol

[AlphaWolf24]

Jordan played all of 18 regular season games with Gervin in Gervin's last season in the NBA.

Woolridge? Oakley? smh


are you seriously slighting Charles Oakley?..Mj himself was pissed when Oak left..and called him one of the best players and teamates he(MJ) ever had.

oh that's right a 20ppg scorer and one of he best interior defenders of the 90's are scrubs....MJ carried everyone and taught pro players how to play basketball.

[Alhazred]

Jordan couldn't even make it past the first round of the playoffs and was 1-9 until Pippen came along.

*Looks up Scottie Pippen's rookie numbers*

:roll: :roll: :roll:


Even 2 of Jordan's FMVPs are debatable.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/sugacube/Faces%20for%20Radio/goodfellas2.jpg


As a great man once said "without Scottie Pippen, Micheal Jordan would be nothing more than a bald headed Dominique Wilkins".

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/sugacube/Faces%20for%20Radio/goodfellas3.jpg





The Bulls were 26-12 without Pippen in '98 and despite also losing Steve Kerr for 32 games and Luc Longley for 24(And I know you've praised them both in the past, calling Kerr "The GOAT Three-Point Shooter" and comparing Longley to Bynum and Perkins), they managed to win 62 games, tied for the best record in the league. In fact, the Bulls had a 31-12 record in games Pippen missed during the second threepeat, which leads me to believe that they would have still been a solid team even without him. Don't get me wrong, Pippen was awesome and the Bulls most likely wouldn't have won nearly as much without his presence, but he wasn't the sole reason for the Bulls' success the way you're trying to spin it. Yes, Jordan's first few years his teams struggled, but I doubt that would have been the case as long as the Bulls still acquired Phil Jackson and picked up some solid players on the way. Those early Bulls lineups weren't exactly stellar.

[Dragonyeuw]

Jordan has played with HOF Teamates and allstars since his rookie year....

l

1984-85 roster


40 Dave Corzine
44 Quintin Dailey
34 Chris Engler
21 Sidney Green
10 Dave Greenwood
22 Rod Higgins
32 Steve Johnson
27 Caldwell Jones
13 Charles Jones
23 Michael Jordan
1 Wes Matthews
33 Jawann Oldham
3 Ennis Whatley
0 Orlando Woolridge

Yep, championship squad right there.

[keepinitreal]

Ja Rule and Tupac.:banana:

[AlphaWolf24]

Alhazred]*Looks up Scottie Pippen's rookie numbers*

:roll: :roll: :roll:


proof you never watched PIP...made into the starting lineup at the end of his rookie season...almost averaged a double double in the playoff's.

came up huge in the playoff's....of course MJ Jacking up 28 shots a game was the reason the Bull's finally made it out of the first round...not Pippen:rolleyes:



The Bulls were 26-12 without Pippen in '98 and despite also losing Steve Kerr for 32 games and Luc Longley for 24(And I know you've praised them both in the past, calling Kerr "The GOAT Three-Point Shooter" and comparing Longley to Bynum and Perkins), they managed to win 62 games, tied for the best record in the league. In fact, the Bulls had a 31-12 record in games Pippen missed during the second threepeat, which leads me to believe that they would have still been a solid team even without him. Don't get me wrong, Pippen was awesome and the Bulls most likely wouldn't have won nearly as much without his presence, but he wasn't the sole reason for the Bulls' success the way you're trying to spin it. Yes, Jordan's first few years his teams struggled, but I doubt that would have been the case as long as the Bulls still acquired Phil Jackson and picked up some solid players on the way. Those early Bulls lineups weren't exactly stellar.]

and what were they the year before with Pippen after 43 games??...so Pippen misses half the season and the Bull's drop 8 games (I think)from the year before after 43 games....compared to 94 after a WHOLE season the Bull's slip only 2 games without MJ.

You just Owned yourself and proved Pippen had more of a impact on the win/loss column.



next

[Da_Realist]

Kobe's Lakers rolled over and quit after the first quarter and y'all are debating Michael Jordan's career with Alphawolf? :facepalm

The only question now is, can Dallas top the 39 point beatdown Boston gave LA the last time they quit in a playoff elimination game. :oldlol:

[AlphaWolf24]

1984-85 roster


40 Dave Corzine
44 Quintin Dailey
34 Chris Engler
21 Sidney Green
10 Dave Greenwood
22 Rod Higgins
32 Steve Johnson
27 Caldwell Jones
13 Charles Jones
23 Michael Jordan
1 Wes Matthews
33 Jawann Oldham
3 Ennis Whatley
0 Orlando Woolridge

Yep, championship squad right there.


john Battle
Antoine Carr
Lorenzo Charles ty
Johnny Davis
Scott Hastings
Eddie Johnson
Jon Koncak
Cliff Levingston
Doc Rivers
Tree Rollins
Sedric Toney
Spud Webb
Dominique Wilkins
Ray Williams
Kevin Willis
Randy Wittman

didn't stop Nique from winning 50 games....and pushing the Celtics....He did better in the 80's then MJ.

[Ne 1]

.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M79eJyW_T0M

[Alhazred]

proof you never watched PIP...made into the starting lineup at the end of his rookie season...almost averaged a double double in the playoff's.

Since when is 10/5/2 "almost a double double"?


came up huge in the playoff's....of course MJ Jacking up 28 shots a game was the reason the Bull's finally made it out of the first round...not Pippen:rolleyes:

Jordan in game 5: 39 points, 12/20 field goals, 4 rebs, 6 asts, 4 stls and 2 blks

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/05/09/sports/nba-playoffs-jordan-and-bulls-in-2d-round.html?pagewanted=2&src=pm


Sparrow, for his part, said that while the victory proved that the Bulls could win with Jordan, it reinforced the point that they couldn't win without him. As proof Sparrow pointed out Jordan's two crucial third-quarter blocks, a pair of shrewd assists and his clutch free throw shooting down the stretch.

''The key to having players like Michael Jordan is that in the last five minutes he can take over a game,'' Sparrow said. ''That's the key to having superstar players, it's not what they've done in the first 43 minutes of the game, but what they do in the last five: how many times they get on the foul line, how many big shots they hit, how many key passes they make and how well they stop their man defensively. Michael made a super contribution to a team effort today.''

Yes, Pippen had a great game 5, but even with his contributions Jordan was still the best player on the court.


and what were they the year before with Pippen after 43 games??...so Pippen misses half the season and the Bull's drop 8 games (I think)from the year before after 43 games....compared to 94 after a WHOLE season the Bull's slip only 2 games without MJ.

You just Owned yourself and proved Pippen had more of a impact on the win/loss column.

Did you not read my whole post? The Bulls also lost their starting center and their best three point shooter for a combined 56 games that season. Compare that to '94, when the Bulls added Kerr, Kukoc, and Longley. Two vastly different situations.

[AlphaWolf24]

Since when is 10/5/2 "almost a double double"?



Jordan in game 5: 39 points, 12/20 field goals, 4 rebs, 6 asts, 4 stls and 2 blks

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/05/09/sports/nba-playoffs-jordan-and-bulls-in-2d-round.html?pagewanted=2&src=pm



Yes, Pippen had a great game 5, but even with his contributions Jordan was still the best player on the court.



Did you not read my whole post? The Bulls also lost their starting center and their best three point shooter for a combined 56 games that season. Compare that to '94, when the Bulls added Kerr, Kukoc, and Longley. Two vastly different situations.


yes go read some more stats....clearly you never watched Basketball in the 80's....Mj's bull's were stepping stones for the Celtics , Bucs and Pistons...they had no defensive presence and had "0" interior /perimeter rebounding/defense before Pippen....reading stats on a screen shows nothing what a Top 50 alltime player and the greatest perimeter defender ever brought.

you are disgracing one of the best allaround players ever to prop up MJ....silly and sad.



next.

[AstralBaller]

Jordan = Michael
Kobe = Donnie Osmond
Fixed

[Dragonyeuw]

john Battle
Antoine Carr
Lorenzo Charles ty
Johnny Davis
Scott Hastings
Eddie Johnson
Jon Koncak
Cliff Levingston
Doc Rivers
Tree Rollins
Sedric Toney
Spud Webb
Dominique Wilkins
Ray Williams
Kevin Willis
Randy Wittman

didn't stop Nique from winning 50 games....and pushing the Celtics....He did better in the 80's then MJ.

Cool story, Dominique's the greater player then. This proves it. Isiah's Pistons were better in the 80's too. That means Isiah's better than Jordan too. Bird's Celtics were better too, had nothing to do with Mchale, Parish, Dennis Johnson. Magic's Lakers were better also, but it wasn't because he had Jabbar, Worthy, and Scott. Jordan absolutely should have won 5 titles in the 80's with Orlando Woolridge and Dave Corzine on his team. Those guys were clearly on the level of the guys I mentioned earlier. My bad....

[Alhazred]

yes go read some more stats....clearly you never watched Basketball in the 80's....Mj's bull's were stepping stones for the Celtics , Bucs and Pistons...they had no defensive presence and had "0" interior /perimeter rebounding/defense before Pippen....reading stats on a screen shows nothing what a Top 50 alltime player and the greatest perimeter defender ever brought.

:rolleyes: You're right, nevermind that the 1988 first round series against Cleveland was one of Jordan's most dominating series, Pippen deserves all the credit for that win. 39/4/6 while being clutch in the deciding game obviously means nothing. Did you not read that article? I think Jordan's own teammates knew what they were talking about.

Also, Pippen was a solid role player coming off the bench in '88, not even a starter. He certainly wasn't awful, but he was still raw and far from his prime, this is undeniable. A couple of great games does not change that.


you are disgracing one of the best allaround players ever to prop up MJ....silly and sad.





next.

This coming from the same guy who thinks that playing with Charles Oakley and Orlando Woolridge is comparable to playing with Prime Shaq. :lol

[Mr Feeny]

I've been a fan of Kobe's for most of his career but I always thought that comparing Kobe Bryant to Michael Jordan was the equivalent of comparing Usher to Michael Jackson.

Yeah it makes sense in the grand scheme of things b/c obviously they're both influenced by their industry's respective G.O.A.T.s but really? Has it ever been worth a serious debate?

I typically don't waste my time arguing with Kobe fans who take it too far and try to say Kobe's better than MJ...

To me, that was like arguing with a 15 year old girl who was mesmerized by Confessions and never saw Thriller, never listened to the entire Bad or Off the Wall albums, never saw Motown 25 or a MJ concert performance, and never heard a Jackson 5 greatest hits. Sometimes when you have to just nod your head and smile...

As a Kobe guy, it's not over til it's over. But please stop the Kobe> Jordan sh*t. Some of you guys are showing ur age...(ugh em!, 90's babies...smh)
You just look silly and naive.

Bach when Kobe stans had brains:lol
:applause:

[Mr Feeny]

Comparing Kobe Bryant to Michael Jordan was the equivalent of comparing Usher to Michael Jackson:applause: :applause:

[feyki]

46 to 38 vert diff. .

Imagine your favourite player with 8 more inches jumping ability . Also , vert means ( not directly ) quicker first step , more explosive reflex' and better reaction time .

I don't know about MJ or Usher ( yeah yeah , that was in 2003 i guess :D ) . But it's like comparing Slash or Kirk to Jason Becker .