These playoffs prove guys like Carmelo, Rudy Gay, Amare are OVERRATED by dumb fans

[FourthTenor]

I'll write more on this later, but can someone tell me what the difference is between having a guy like Carmelo take a low percentage shot and having a guy like Gallinari or Battier or Mike Miller taking a high % shot? "Stars" who are slightly better at taking contested, difficult shots than other players make the morons here wet their panties, THATS NOT THE POINT OF BASKETBALL.

ESPN and Nike and Gatorade etc. make these guys out to be stars because their difficult, off-balance, jab step turnaround fadeaway three pointers look cool and make fans go "wowweeee!" but the truth is thats got nothing to do with BASKETBALL.

Denver and Memphis replaced these "stars" (who dont do anything above average for their position other than field goal attempts) with ordinary role players and suffered NO DROPOFF WHATSOEVER. New York paired Amare Stoudamire with Carmelo Anthony and got broomed out of the playoffs disgracefully. Kobe "best closer on the planet" got broomed out as well.


I propose that to be considered a "star" you have to do MORE THAN ONE THING well for your position. That means you board and D like Howard, you pass, board and score like Bron, you score, pass, and D like Paul, rebound and score like Randolph or Griffin etc. and you could include a guy like Dirk because his scoring is so insanely efficient. Same with Durant

Carmelo Anthony, Rudy Gay, Amare Stoudamire are NO BETTER than Marc Gasol, who can shoot a decent midrange but also REBOUNDS AND PLAYS D. Same with guys like Scola or Bynum. They are every bit as impactful as those "stars"

I'm sick of reject morons on this site who just buy into all the ESPN marketing of high-scoring, high-volume shooting wing players who dont actually MAKE A SIGNIFICANT IMPACT.


Howard
James
Dirk
Paul
Griffin
Wade
Randolph
Durant

>>>>>


Carmelo
Amare
Rudy
Kobe
Joe Johnson
Rose

Sorry 4 Truth. THose guys are role players. All they do is take field goals with mediocre efficiency. Just because the shots they take are tougher than what most guys take, doesnt make them great.

Role players.

Sorry 4 Truth.

[AI3Anthony]

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[G.O.A.T]

no one sucks more than you.

[FourthTenor]

no one sucks more than you.


You're the Carmelo Anthony of message boards.

Low bball IQ.

[STATUTORY]

:facepalm

every team left in the playoffs have at least one legitmate star. Memphis has zack randolph who you would consider low iq probably. Hawks are carried by crawford, josh smith, joe johnson, who are all "low efficiency and iq" players.


not sure how this proves your point at all.

[LeFraud Shames]

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This. :lol

[FourthTenor]

:facepalm

every team left in the playoffs have at least one legitmate star. Memphis has zack randolph who you would consider low iq probably. Hawks are carried by crawford, josh smith, joe johnson, who are all "low efficiency and iq" players.



Randolph is a prodigious scorer and rebounder.

The Hawks do not have any legitimate stars. THey have a TEAM full of decent players, which is enough to get you to the 2nd round of the east and then out.

This notion that you must have a media star to be a good team is more fan hype sentiment. Fans love having one "hero" rather than a bunch of ordinary guys working to get it done together. Yeah, most great teams have a great player, but fans try to "force" someone on each team into superstar status, so they can identify the team more easily. Carmelo Anthony aint any kind of star. Either is Stoudamire, either is Joe Johnson and no longer is Kobe Bryant. Period.

[Clutch]

We don't know how the Knicks would have played if Amare and Billups were healthy.
Maybe they could even beat the Celtics.

But I know refs stole the victory from them in game 1 and that Melo almost beat them single-handedly in game 2 when he put up 42/17/6

This thread deserves a lot of these

http://cdn.pimpmyspace.org/media/pms/c/ps/s6/6q/ckyou.gif

[Scoooter]

Amar'e is an efficient scorer and okay rebounder who played well in the fourth quarter all year long. Blocked almost 2 shots a game too. And he really thrives in team-oriented, ball-moving basketball.

I don't get it.

[G.O.A.T]

You're the Carmelo Anthony of message boards.

Low bball IQ.

I was talking about the AiAnthony guy

Your post was fine, I agree save for the inclusion of Rose.

[Clutch]

It's really funny how you talk about Durant as insanely efficient while you call Melo a role player who isn't efficient.

Durant this season: .462 FG% , .350 3-pt%
Melo this season: .455 FG% , .378 3-pt %

What's even worse Melo averages more rebounds and assists than Durant.

I won't call you names and insult you but your post isn't smart at all.

[FourthTenor]

It's really funny how you talk about Durant as insanely efficient while you call Melo a role player who isn't efficient.

Durant this season: .462 FG% , .350 3-pt%
Melo this season: .455 FG% , .378 3-pt %

What's even worse Melo averages more rebounds and assists than Durant.


To be honest, I didnt include Durant initially, I edited him in because I figured I'd get hammered for not including him after the way he's played in the playoffs.

But he does take and make more FT's than Carmelo, he has an overall efficiency rating 3 points higher, and while he's not a defensive stopper, at least he's not a total braindead moron on defense like Carmelo. He hustles and leads by example and takes pride in his team. These also separate him from the one-dimensional, one-brain cell Carmelo Anthony.

I probably would include Durant in the "over rated superstar" category along with Rose, but I'd still have him a peg above Carmelo.

[OriginalNameGuy]

Rudy Gay is injured...how does this prove he is overrated??

if they are this good now, having him healthy and in the lineup would put them over the top

[FourthTenor]

Rudy Gay is injured...how does this prove he is overrated??


He has an 80 million dollar contract and is considered by many fans a "first option" but his teams performance didnt change a lick when he went out of the lineup. Same thing happened to Carmelo in Denver.

Do you think that would happen to the Magic or the Heat or the Hornets or the Mavericks?

[knickswin]

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This.

And I don't know what your point is dude. Amar'e and Carmelo have both had playoff success and great postseason performances (Amar'e especially). The team just wasn't ready for it this year.

[Sroek]

Only player who belongs on the second list is Amare. Everyone else has exceptional secondary and tertiary skill-sets.

[blablabla]

you included griffin a guy who has 0winning seasons and 0playoff appearances
and he should be a better player than melo, amare, rose and wait for it
5time nba champion 2time finals mvp he has more rings than all those other guys combined kobe bryant

great work moron:applause: :applause:

[FourthTenor]

you included griffin a guy who has 0winning seasons and 0playoff appearances
and he is a better playoff performer than melo, amare, rose and wait for it
5time nba champion 2time finals mvp he has more rings than all those other guys combined kobe bryant

great work moron:applause: :applause:


Make the argument that any of those guys have better GAME than Griffin.

Don't use the retard argument "duhhh, teh other guys teams were in play0ffs"

All those guys you named play for teams in the luxury tax. Griffin plays on the Clippers. Basketball is a team game. Players dont control what kind of team is put around them.

All you can do is compare the PLAYERS. None of those players currently compare to Hurricane Griffin. Period.

But thanks for being the typical dummy "oh but, umm, look at his team! that guys team is good and the other isnt, so thats how i know which player is teh better!!!!"

[OriginalNameGuy]

He has an 80 million dollar contract and is considered by many fans a "first option" but his teams performance didnt change a lick when he went out of the lineup. Same thing happened to Carmelo in Denver.

Do you think that would happen to the Magic or the Heat or the Hornets or the Mavericks?
So you are punishing Rudy Gay for being on a team that stepped up in his absence?

Yes, you can assume the Magic, Heat, Hornets, Mavericks would be worse without their superstars but we don't know because they haven't been put in that situation. That is what professionals do...when their best guy is out, everyone else steps it up and they find a way

[blablabla]

Make the argument that any of those guys have better GAME than Griffin.

Don't use the retard argument "duhhh, teh other guys teams were in play0ffs"

All those guys you named play for teams in the luxury tax. Griffin plays on the Clippers. Basketball is a team game. Players dont control what kind of team is put around them.

All you can do is compare the PLAYERS. None of those players currently compare to Hurricane Griffin. Period.

But thanks for being the typical dummy "oh but, umm, look at his team! that guys team is good and the other isnt, so thats how i know which player is teh better!!!!"

you want to say that griffin is a better player than kobe or melo or amare
i will tell you one thing from a skill standpoint kobe, melo and dirk are better than anybody else in the nba

ok you say the other guys(wade,james..) are doing alot more than just scoring,in an inefficient way, they rebound or pass the ball or somethin like that
but look at some facts
melo is a great player he can score on many ways, he can break down defenses plus melo is a great rebounder for his position much better than james for example
he is equal to durant(without the phantom calls)

i also don't see why dirk is better than amare, amare is a better rebounder non of them play great defense and amare as efficient as a scorer

than we have kobe
why do you have wade in your star players list and kobe in your role players list
because prime kobe does everything that wade does just 10times better
he impacts a game alot more than wade

than you bash mvp derrick rose he lead his team to best record in the nba and that with noah and boozer missing alot of time so his impact >>>> over the impact of wade,bron,griffin(lol),dirk etc.

and then i have one question for you What do you think about Prime Allen Iverson ?

[Zackmorris]

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Basically.

[jb220]

Why are Durant and Melo separated? Dont get it.,

[bdreason]

I agree that 'Superstars' are vastly overrated... but people (fans) like to have idols, so the media creates idols for them.

[Bigsmoke]

why Anthony?

wasnt he in the WCFs before?

[stephanieg]

Guys who score a lot of points or make flashy plays, even if they're unproductive and make their teams worse or at most average, have always and will always (minus some sort of moneyball revolution a la baseball) get a lot of hype and media awards. It's just one of those things you have to ignore the best you can. If you're into gambling you can make some money off it though.

[blablabla]

Guys who score a lot of points or make flashy plays, even if they're unproductive and make their teams worse or at most average, have always and will always (minus some sort of moneyball revolution a la baseball) get a lot of hype and media awards. It's just one of those things you have to ignore the best you can. If you're into gambling you can make some money off it though.
so you agree with the op?

[NY-Knicks]

Gallinari takes high percentage shots?

Stopped reading there.

[atljonesbro]

I'll take a team that can actually play as a team rather than having a big star.

[stephanieg]

so you agree with the op?

He's railing against people's / the media's perceptions of stars based on his own intuition and common sense when it's usually done more rigorously with stats, but he's basically got that scoring (especially inefficient scoring) is really overrated. Not exactly a new thought. Auerbach would've said the same back in the late '50s.

[gasolina]

And on what basis have you concluded that Rudy was the first option of the Grizz?

Ever since last year Zach has been the undisputed 1st option. Majority of the half court set goes through him, whether as a post up / iso. If not, they would work a high P&R with Conley / Gasol and flash Z-Bo in the paint for easy buckets.

As good as the Grizz has been w/o Gay, they'd be a lot better with Gay/Allen starting. Matter of fact, Rudy was the Grizz best defender when Allen wasn't playing significant minutes.

The Grizz has had to do a 2nd option by committee since Gay went down. Sometimes its Conley, sometimes, Gasol, even Mayo. It'd be nice if the Grizz had another option rather than Z-Bo to create something witht he shot clock going down.

The last time Gay was the first option he shot the worse from the field ever since his rookie season. With Z-Bo on Board he had career highs from all stats except scoring including all shooting %'s.

[ukplayer4]

fourth tenor is one of the best posters we have on here right now. glad he came along.

i concur, people massively overate volume scorers

[knickswin]

I don't think you even watch basketball, or if you do I don't think you watch it very well.

Guys like Amar'e, Carmelo, Joe Johnson, and Rose are great players and have a ton of value if used correctly.

I'm going to talk about Amar'e and Carmelo because it's their games that I'm most comfortable with, but I'm sure you could make a case for any of the other guys.

Amar'e has always been a great offensive player. It's not just that he scores--which he does do prodigiously and at a very efficient clip--it's that he's dynamic. He moves well off the ball setting picks and screens, and has the variety to his offensive game that defenses have to scramble to counter him because he can get in scoring position from anywhere on the floor. He's not the type of big man who forces the offense to stagnate around him. If you watched the Knicks before Carmelo got here there was a HUGE difference between the Knicks' offense when Amar'e was on the floor and when Amar'e was off.

I don't think Karl used Carmelo to his full strengths in Denver, since he made him a purely isolation player. Obviously Carmelo was pretty good at that, but that doesn't mean he's incapable of playing within an offense. He's a capable passer and spot-up shooter, and I expect those abilities to be utilized more. Plus his efficiency is going to go up if Mike draws up actual plays for him rather than forcing him to create every shot by himself. Also he's one of the best rebounding small forwards.

I see Joe Johnson currently having the same problems Carmelo had in Denver, he doesn't take advantage of the double teams he commands and tries to create for himself too much. I blame the coach and offensive system mostly for this.

I think Dirk in this last series is a great example of how big an impact a great scorer can be as long as he's capable of capitalizing on the advantages he gets from demanding defensive attention. The Mavs' three point shooters consistently got open looks because defenders were afraid to leave Dirk single-teamed. Also, Barea was able to get so many lanes to the basket off those high PNRs because the defending big was always afraid to leave Dirk open, which meant that the defending small was always a few steps behind Barea trying to get over the screen.

[atljonesbro]

I don't think you even watch basketball, or if you do I don't think you watch it very well.

Guys like Amar'e, Carmelo, Joe Johnson, and Rose are great players and have a ton of value if used correctly.

I'm going to talk about Amar'e and Carmelo because it's their games that I'm most comfortable with, but I'm sure you could make a case for any of the other guys.

Amar'e has always been a great offensive player. It's not just that he scores--which he does do prodigiously and at a very efficient clip--it's that he's dynamic. He moves well off the ball setting picks and screens, and has the variety to his offensive game that defenses have to scramble to counter him because he can get in scoring position from anywhere on the floor. He's not the type of big man who forces the offense to stagnate around him. If you watched the Knicks before Carmelo got here there was a HUGE difference between the Knicks' offense when Amar'e was on the floor and when Amar'e was off.

I don't think Karl used Carmelo to his full strengths in Denver, since he made him a purely isolation player. Obviously Carmelo was pretty good at that, but that doesn't mean he's incapable of playing within an offense. He's a capable passer and spot-up shooter, and I expect those abilities to be utilized more. Plus his efficiency is going to go up if Mike draws up actual plays for him rather than forcing him to create every shot by himself. Also he's one of the best rebounding small forwards.

I see Joe Johnson currently having the same problems Carmelo had in Denver, he doesn't take advantage of the double teams he commands and tries to create for himself too much. I blame the coach and offensive system mostly for this.

I think Dirk in this last series is a great example of how big an impact a great scorer can be as long as he's capable of capitalizing on the advantages he gets from demanding defensive attention. The Mavs' three point shooters consistently got open looks because defenders were afraid to leave Dirk single-teamed. Also, Barea was able to get so many lanes to the basket off those high PNRs because the defending big was always afraid to leave Dirk open, which meant that the defending small was always a few steps behind Barea trying to get over the screen.
This. I hate when we over run the iso. We play much better when getting the whole team involved. Hence the nickname ISOJOE

[Clutch]

You are also underestimating several factors.

First of all,most of the times there is a reason why some players take 20+ shots while some take 5 of them.
Who would you rather see shooting the ball,Fields or Melo ?
Sefolosha or Durant ?

Also you are talking about efficiency.
There is a reason why there are star players and role players.
Do you really think a mediocre player could put up same numbers as Melo or Durant if he gets 20+ shots a game ?
I'm sure he wouldn't.

Melo and Durant are stars,people adjust their defense to them,d collapses on them.
It's not rare to see them double-teamed.

Compare that pressure to shooting a wide-open jumpshot like role players do.

Before jumping to conclusions people should think why some players shoots more while others shoot less.
But obviously most of the coaches in the league are idiots,both for letting Melo take 20+ shots instead of Jared Jeffries and then for defending him hard instead of doubling Ronny Turiaf.

[824]

Trolling or just retarded?

[Sarcastic]

Trolling or just retarded?

B.

[knicksman]

defense are for players with no skills. thats why you can find them with your 2nd round picks. while offense is the most difficult of this game esp shooting tough shots. in conclusion OP is an idiot who needs to go back school to increase IQ

[hon]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-DfrIS_BwFuA/TYd5pADvJzI/AAAAAAAAAC4/W3yug9z8Jow/s1600/p1_carmelo-getty.jpg

Winning it all on the NCAA level - does it count for something, his freshmen year no less. :confusedshrug:

[kaiiu]

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[OldSkoolball#52]

I'll write more on this later, but can someone tell me what the difference is between having a guy like Carmelo take a low percentage shot and having a guy like Gallinari or Battier or Mike Miller taking a high % shot? "Stars" who are slightly better at taking contested, difficult shots than other players make the morons here wet their panties, THATS NOT THE POINT OF BASKETBALL.

ESPN and Nike and Gatorade etc. make these guys out to be stars because their difficult, off-balance, jab step turnaround fadeaway three pointers look cool and make fans go "wowweeee!" but the truth is thats got nothing to do with BASKETBALL.

Denver and Memphis replaced these "stars" (who dont do anything above average for their position other than field goal attempts) with ordinary role players and suffered NO DROPOFF WHATSOEVER. New York paired Amare Stoudamire with Carmelo Anthony and got broomed out of the playoffs disgracefully. Kobe "best closer on the planet" got broomed out as well.


I propose that to be considered a "star" you have to do MORE THAN ONE THING well for your position. That means you board and D like Howard, you pass, board and score like Bron, you score, pass, and D like Paul, rebound and score like Randolph or Griffin etc. and you could include a guy like Dirk because his scoring is so insanely efficient. Same with Durant

Carmelo Anthony, Rudy Gay, Amare Stoudamire are NO BETTER than Marc Gasol, who can shoot a decent midrange but also REBOUNDS AND PLAYS D. Same with guys like Scola or Bynum. They are every bit as impactful as those "stars"


I'm sick of reject morons on this site who just buy into all the ESPN marketing of high-scoring, high-volume shooting wing players who dont actually MAKE A SIGNIFICANT IMPACT.


Howard
James
Dirk
Paul
Wade
Randolph
Durant

>>>>>


Carmelo
Amare
Rudy
Kobe
Joe Johnson
Rose

Sorry 4 Truth. THose guys are role players. All they do is take field goals with mediocre efficiency. Just because the shots they take are tougher than what most guys take, doesnt make them great.

Role players.

Sorry 4 Truth.


Dat prophet.. :bowdown:

[JtotheIzzo]

Starface!

[R.I.P.]

Griffin doesn

[Akrazotile]

This.

And I don't know what your point is dude. Amar'e and Carmelo have both had playoff success and great postseason performances (Amar'e especially). The team just wasn't ready for it this year.


Maybe this year!