Can Wade and LeBron be TOP 10 at the end if everything works out?

[canefandynasty]

What do you think? If Wade and James win this season I think they are both TOP 15. Is it possible for both to be TOP 10? What about TOP 5? Is that pushing it?

[PowerGlove]

Lebron is already top 20.

Dwade is top 40????

I dont think Wade will end up being a top ten player but Bron will most definitely end up in the top ten.

[canefandynasty]

Lebron is already top 20.

Dwade is top 40????

I dont think Wade will end up being a top ten player but Bron will most definitely end up in the top ten.

Wade has a better career than LeBron IMO. Better playoff runs, similiar stats. Career wise, the only players that comes close to LeBron statistically are Wade, Chris Paul, Duncan and Shaq.

[DWade06]

It all depends on championships. they both can most definitely be top 10 but Wade's age and injuries back in 06-07 wil hold him back from being top 5. If all goes well Lebron can have something like, 3 MVPs, 4 championships, 3 Fmvps, 4-5 scroing titles, and he's on pace to be the all time leading scorer. Obviously this isn't guaranteed but it is definitely plausible. don't forget he's only 26

[jrong]

Lebron is already top 20.

Dwade is top 40????

Name me more than 20-25 players you'd rather have than Wade if you need to win a game, series, or championship. Actually, name me more than 15.

[PowerGlove]

Name me more than 20-25 players you'd rather have than Wade if you need to win a game, series, or championship.

I cant but is that how all-time rankings are done? I dont think so. I have Wade top 30-ish but looking around it seems that I am a little overzealous, so I back tracked.:lol

[DWade06]

Lebron is already top 20.

Dwade is top 40????

I dont think Wade will end up being a top ten player but Bron will most definitely end up in the top ten.
How will Wade not be top 40?? if he retired right now he still would be. 25 pints per game, 5.5 rebounds, 6.5 assists, 2 steals, 1 block 49% shooting.

[PowerGlove]

How will Wade not be top 40?? if he retired right now he still would be. 25 pints per game, 5.5 rebounds, 6.5 assists, 2 steals, 1 block 49% shooting.
I'm saying he's top 40 right now. Maybe even top 30. I dont see him getting into the top 10 though.

Either way, his prime seasons are on the same tier as the Lebron's/Bird's/Jordan's/Kobe's in terms of perimeter dominance.

[canefandynasty]

I'm saying he's top 40 right now. Maybe even top 30. I dont see him getting into the top 10 though.

Either way, his prime seasons are on the same tier as the Lebron's/Bird's/Jordan's/Kobe's in terms of perimeter dominance.

What is your reasoning for this? If he wins like 3- 6 more rings and gets like 2- 4 more FMVP, you think he can't be TOP 10? Yes, being optimistic, but it's possible.

[PowerGlove]

What is your reasoning for this? If he wins like 3- 6 more rings and gets like 2- 4 more FMVP, you think he can't be TOP 10? Yes, being optimistic, but it's possible.
I just dont find that scenario plausible. If that happens, then sure.

[canefandynasty]

I just dont find that scenario plausible. If that happens, then sure.

What if he wins rings and FMVP this season (very possible), where do you hve him?

[SayQueensbridge]

Don't think either of them could become top 10. LeBron would have to go to another team because he'll need titles as "the man" to boost him up anybodys lists. "Robins" just aren't considered top 10. Wade can move up a bit but people will look at HIS team and say it is STACKED. Wade probably has 1 of the best second options ever in Bron and a really good third in Bosh.

[PowerGlove]

What if he wins rings and FMVP this season (very possible), where do you hve him?

Tough Question.

Probably 15-23 range.

He'll have two of each with a high peak but question marks on his longevity.

[LBJ 23]

Don't think either of them could become top 10. LeBron would have to go to another team because he'll need titles as "the man" to boost him up anybodys lists. "Robins" just aren't considered top 10. Wade can move up a bit but people will look at HIS team and say it is STACKED. Wade probably has 1 of the best second options ever in Bron and a really good third in Bosh.



:roll:



:applause:

[Kellogs4toniee]

There progress on the all-time lists are essentially directly correlated now since they'll be on the same team for the next 5-6 years.

I will say this though. If both of them get at least 3 rings, I don't see how there not both in the top 10.

[DWade06]

Don't think either of them could become top 10. LeBron would have to go to another team because he'll need titles as "the man" to boost him up anybodys lists. "Robins" just aren't considered top 10. Wade can move up a bit but people will look at HIS team and say it is STACKED. Wade probably has 1 of the best second options ever in Bron and a really good third in Bosh.
:lol :lol :lol by robin do you mean 25 points, 5 assists, and 10 rebounds per game? d*mn I don't remember Robin being that good

[canefandynasty]

Don't think either of them could become top 10. LeBron would have to go to another team because he'll need titles as "the man" to boost him up anybodys lists. "Robins" just aren't considered top 10. Wade can move up a bit but people will look at HIS team and say it is STACKED. Wade probably has 1 of the best second options ever in Bron and a really good third in Bosh.

Wade and LeBron are 1A/1B. Why can't people accept that?

[King Lebron LBJ]

Don't think either of them could become top 10. LeBron would have to go to another team because he'll need titles as "the man" to boost him up anybodys lists. "Robins" just aren't considered top 10. Wade can move up a bit but people will look at HIS team and say it is STACKED. Wade probably has 1 of the best second options ever in Bron and a really good third in Bosh.
In that case magic and kareem don't belong in the top 5

[Sakkreth]

Don't think either of them could become top 10. LeBron would have to go to another team because he'll need titles as "the man" to boost him up anybodys lists. "Robins" just aren't considered top 10. Wade can move up a bit but people will look at HIS team and say it is STACKED. Wade probably has 1 of the best second options ever in Bron and a really good third in Bosh.

Trolls these days...

How the best player in the league can be second best player on his team ?:facepalm

[canefandynasty]

Trolls these days...

How the best player in the league can be second best player on his team ?:facepalm

Best player AND second best player on Miami are both ARGUABLE. It's not clear he is the best IMO. His teammate is no slouch neither.

[jrong]

LeBron will be top ten. Wade won't (and, frankly, I can't make the case that he deserves it-- top 15, yes; top 10, no). Wade's career happened at the wrong time. Had there been no LeBron James, Wade would be the LeBron of this generation. The media seems incapable of processing the fact that just because Wade is no James that he can't be 95+% of what James is, but it is what it is.

....I should add, however, that if not for his two injuries that cost he and Shaq a dynasty (Game 5 of 2005 ECFs, 2007 regular season), Wade had a definite shot at top ten.

[SayQueensbridge]

:lol :lol :lol by robin do you mean 25 points, 5 assists, and 10 rebounds per game? d*mn I don't remember Robin being that good

EXACTLY. That's why when people look back at Wades career they'll say he was good but his Tito Jackson might be the GOAT Tito. Wade should win a ship every year.

[blablabla]

bron yes wade no

[kaiiu]

both have zero chance

[SayQueensbridge]

Wade and LeBron are 1A/1B. Why can't people accept that?

Wade being option A. Lebron B. At the end of games when Miami really wants a W they go to Wade. Bron is a great B .... nothing wrong with that. He just can't win as the man.

[SayQueensbridge]

both have zero chance

my niigga tho ... :lol

[kaiiu]

my niigga tho ... :lol
Wade wasnt gettin in from the start and Bron is a sidekick

[DWade06]

Wade being option A. Lebron B. At the end of games when Miami really wants a W they go to Wade. Bron is a great B .... nothing wrong with that. He just can't win as the man.
Lebron is the one who sent the game into over time and at one point scored 12 straight points for the heat at the end of the 4th but ok... the are both the lead man. look. game 1 Wade played better, game 2 Lebron played better, game 3 Wade, game 4 Lebron

[Kurosawa0]

LeBron? Absolutely. Wade? Highly unlikely.

[swi7ch]

NO, LOL!

You can't be top 10 without an MVP so maybe yes for LBJ but no for Wade.

[gengiskhan]

Lebron has Legit chance of making to 10th position or even 9th.

Lebron must win atleast 3 rings from now on till age 30. & 2 consequetive MVPs atleast. 3 consequitive will help guarantee that 10th Spot.

Lebron is already ahead of Kobe in many aspects:

Lebron ROY. Kobe Not

NBA MVP: Lebron 2(back-2-back), Kobe 1

Lebron singlehandedly took journey men CLE to NBA finals, Kobe miserably failed to take garbage lakers to finals (2005, 2006).

Kobe clearly beats Lebron in the catotory that counts the most. FINALS MVPs

Kobe got 2(back-2-back) FINALS MVP. Lebron 0 in 1 try.

Kobe 2 MVPs in 7 tries, Lebron 0 in 1 try.

Kobe guanrateed Top 11 GOATs. LBJ guaranteed Top 15 GOATs so far.

In order for Lebron to crack Top 10 GOATs, He must win 3 conseqitive Finals MVPs or atleast 3 out of possible 5 mvps to surpass Kobe unquestionably.

Its do-able. Only if he goes all out in finals & not worry about Bosh or Wade.

[catch24]

Wade will have to win at the very least 3 more championships. He has no MVPs and has Kobe getting all-teams over him because of his rep. Sucks and it's not right, but that's the reality of the situation.

History will be better to LeBron if Miami wins.

[jrong]

Lebron is the one who sent the game into over time and at one point scored 12 straight points for the heat at the end of the 4th but ok... the are both the lead man. look. game 1 Wade played better, game 2 Lebron played better, game 3 Wade, game 4 Lebron

It's interesting, though, because LeBron "played better" because he decided to assert himself and take the shots. The one thing that disappointed me about Wade is he missed two shots in the 4th quarter that were gimmes (and I can't figure out how they rolled out).

So, anyway, LeBron got hot at the right time, then kept shooting, and so ended up taking 28 shots to Wade's 18. However, you'll have a tough time convincing me that the game doesn't end up with the same result if the shot-totals are reversed. James was 12/28; Wade was 8/18. I think if Wade takes ten more shots, he makes at least four of them..

[Kurosawa0]

LeBron's put up some of the greatest numbers of anyone in NBA history. In a couple of years he's going to have 20,000+ points, 5,000+ rebounds and 5,000+ assists. He'll have done that in about 10 seasons. That's unreal.

If you add a couple of rings next to his numbers and added next to the fact we've never seen a player like him, LeBron's would be knocking on Hakeem, Duncan, Shaq, Kobe and Wilt's doors. Now, whether or not he can win enough to start threatening Magic and Larry...

[gengiskhan]

for argument's sake, Lebron-Wade-Bosh play 5 full yrs together till LBJ turns 30.

If they go to 4 finals. Lebron must win 3 Finals mvps, Wade steals 1 finals mvp. LBJ cannot split MVPs with Wade with 2-2 cuz Wade already got 1 finals MVP. this will show, Lebron is being carried as a side kick by Wade like Shaq carried Kobe first 3 finals mvps.

Lebron is also due for 1 more reg sea NBA MVP, By 30 LBJ might have 3 NBA MVPs to Kobe's 1 MVP

[PianoMan]

They both have a shot. If wade wins a couple more rings and finals mvp then why not? Finals Mvp > Regular Season Mvp in my opinion.

[jb220]

it depends... top 10 what?

...fathers? wade definitely no

...people with brains? bron definitely no...

...players? both definitely no...

[arifgokcen]

Bron's statistical dominance as a perimeter player over virtually anybody in the league(except jordan) has already assured him top 15 and even with one ring he will be top 10 easily.

For wade even though he is one of the best sg to ever play the game ,i cant see him cracking top 10 unless they win +3rings with wade being fmvps.

If they win 4-5rings which is highly unlikely with bron being fmvps in every one of them ,lebron is gonna be ranked #2 or #3 behind MJ and whoever you put in that second spot

[Samurai Swoosh]

NBA MVP: Lebron 2(back-2-back), Kobe 1
To be fair ... Kobe should've been back-2-back MVP in 2006 and 2007.

2008 MVP really belonged to Chris Paul.

Wade should've been MVP in 2009, not LeBron.

LeBron should only have 1 MVP right now ..


Lebron singlehandedly took journey men CLE to NBA finals, Kobe miserably failed to take garbage lakers to finals (2005, 2006).
To be fair ... Kobe played in a more difficult conference. 2005, 2006, 2007, and 2008 the West was possibly the most difficult conference in sports, I've ever seen.

LeBron wins some rings, he will easily be top ten player of all-time.

I just beg him to lose weight, and get his explosiveness back.

[kaiiu]

To be fair ... Kobe should've been back-2-back MVP in 2006 and 2007.

2008 MVP really belonged to Chris Paul.

Wade should've been MVP in 2009, not LeBron.

LeBron should only have 1 MVP right now ..


To be fair ... Kobe played in a more difficult conference. 2005, 2006, 2007, and 2008 the West was possibly the most difficult conference in sports, I've ever seen.

LeBron wins some rings, he will easily be top ten player of all-time.

I just beg him to lose weight, and get his explosiveness back.
ETHER THAT SHIT THAT MAKE YOUR SOUL BURN SLOW :oldlol: :applause:

[Nash]

Lebron is one of the best to have ever played the game and he has been putting up numbers like nobody else before. All people put against him is that he has no rings but as soon as that comes that wont be a valid excuse anymore.

[canefandynasty]

it depends... top 10 what?

...fathers? wade definitely no

...people with brains? bron definitely no...

...players? both definitely no...

Wade Receives Father of the Year Award
Jun 8 2007 3:38PM

MIAMI, June 5

[Nash]

Anyway, you guys talk way too much. The media and famous experts sees Lebron as one of the best to have ever played the game and in the end that is what will decide if he's a top 10 player or not.

[TheCorporation]

Wade probably has 1 of the best second options ever in Bron and a really good third in Bosh.

That's odd.

I didn't know 2nd options would actually score more ppg AND shoot at a higher FG% then their "first option" :lol :lol

[LEFT4DEAD]

After their 3rd ring with Heat they will be considered top 10 both (surely better than Kobe in both cases).

[canefandynasty]

That's odd.

I didn't know 2nd options would actually score more ppg AND shoot at a higher FG% then their "first option" :lol :lol

Wade has a higher PER. Regular season is for pretenders.

[alenleomessi]

Lebron top 5
Wade top 15

[Soothing Layup]

LBJ has only got like 2-4 years until KD explodes/has a better supporting cast and starts racking up the chips, FMVPS, and so on.


KD > LBJ = Wade

[DMAVS41]

Wade will have to win at the very least 3 more championships. He has no MVPs and has Kobe getting all-teams over him because of his rep. Sucks and it's not right, but that's the reality of the situation.

History will be better to LeBron if Miami wins.

Yea. Totally agree. It sucks and it's not right. But you are dead on.

If the Heat were to win this year, Lebron would vault up into potentially the top 12 already. For sure top 15 if Lebron wins a title and finals MVP. His resume would already be as good or better than Dr. J, Oscar, and West.

Wade will be locked into the top 20 with a title this year.

To the OP. If they win 3 titles together and their level of play remains around this level, Lebron will be top 10 for sure. I'd probably put him around 8th or so all time.

Wade? I'd have him in that 9 to 12 range. He'd had 4 titles and at least 1 finals MVP and would boast a top ten regular season and playoff PER.

So yes, if things worked out and they won some titles, both guys would be right in that top ten range.......possibly higher if they play even better or win a lot or have a 70 win season or something.

If they do win this year, its scary.

[LA_Showtime]

No. Wade's always been overlooked, and the hate for LeBron extends to historic players, too. I think one of them will eventually surpass Kobe in the 8-10 range, but not both of them.

[Papaya Petee]

Lets say Wade finishes with

4 Championships
2 FMVP
Sneaks in a MVP
Another All-Star MVP
2-3 All-NBA 1st Teams and 2-3 Defensive teams

he will finish with
4 Championships
2 FMVP
1 MVP
2x ASG MVP


LeBron finishes with
3 Championships
2 FMVP's
2-3 MVPS
3-4 ASG MVP's

Wade will be top 10-15 LeBron top 5-10

[DMAVS41]

No. Wade's always been overlooked, and the hate for LeBron extends to historic players, too. I think one of them will eventually surpass Kobe in the 8-10 range, but not both of them.

Yep.

In order for them to both make it, they would have to win 4 titles together and play extremely well. I guess that is possible, but of course its not likely.

History will be kind to Lebron if he wins titles in my opinion. I think people want to praise him, they just want to see him win first. If he does win multiple titles. He's going to challenge Bird for the best small forward ever and is a lock for the top ten.

Wade just gets no respect, so who knows how he'll be judged. My best guess is around top 15 after a couple more titles. He'll just always remain the most under-rated all time great player ever I guess.

[Tez62]

In that case magic and kareem don't belong in the top 5

Kareem won as the man without Magic and with young Magic.

Magic won as the man b2b with "his team" in 87-88.

Show me one top 10 player that hasn't won multiple titles as the man.

[LA_Showtime]

People want to like LeBron, and they start to, too... and then he opens his mouth.

[DMAVS41]

Lets say Wade finishes with

4 Championships
2 FMVP
Sneaks in a MVP
Another All-Star MVP
2-3 All-NBA 1st Teams and 2-3 Defensive teams

he will finish with
4 Championships
2 FMVP
1 MVP
2x ASG MVP


LeBron finishes with
3 Championships
2 FMVP's
2-3 MVPS
3-4 ASG MVP's

Wade will be top 10-15 LeBron top 5-10


all nba and all defense are worthless. stats are far better. Wade's career stats would matter a lot more.

he needs to keep them at around 25/5/5 for the regular season and playoffs.

if he does that and wins 4 titles and 2 finals mvps? he's top 12....i'd have him in my top ten.

[canefandynasty]

Lets say Wade finishes with

4 Championships
2 FMVP
Sneaks in a MVP
Another All-Star MVP
2-3 All-NBA 1st Teams and 2-3 Defensive teams

he will finish with
4 Championships
2 FMVP
1 MVP
2x ASG MVP


LeBron finishes with
3 Championships
2 FMVP's
2-3 MVPS
3-4 ASG MVP's

Wade will be top 10-15 LeBron top 5-10

The only award there that is relevant to me is FMVP and if Wade somehow can pull out 3- 4 more FMVP he is a surefire TOP 10. i have a feeling Wade is going to add to his FMVP this season.

[DMAVS41]

People want to like LeBron, and they start to, too... and then he opens his mouth.

"thats retarded"
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[EnoughSaid]

It depends. I think LeBron and Wade can pass Shaq and Duncan. The only players at the end of the day that I see over them are MJ, Bird, Magic, Russel, Wilt and KAJ. However, Kobe, Duncan, Shaq and Hakeem might not have their places completely on hold.

[kaiiu]

People want to like LeBron, and they start to, too... and then he opens his mouth.
I actually started to like him before he tweeted that karma bullshit

[macpierce]

lebron yes with chips...........wade um he would have to surpass kobe and that isnt happening no offense

[LA_Showtime]

"thats retarded"
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

"I've always been a leader. I've always kind of been the tallest person on the team when I was younger but always kind of the smartest. I was ahead of my time. I wasn't always the oldest, I kind of was the youngest on the team, but, I kind of knew what to do at times."

[LA_Showtime]

I actually started to like him before he tweeted that karma bullshit

I thought that was hilarious. I loved when LeBron James was embracing the villain role. I can't stand him when he's acting like a diva, though. Some of his quotes, especially the one's where he refers to himself in third person, are just ridiculous.

[kaiiu]

I thought that was hilarious. I loved when LeBron James was embracing the villain role. I can't stand him when he's acting like a diva, though. Some of his quotes, especially the one's where he refers to himself in third person, are just ridiculous.
lets be serious. Dude has more fanboys than haters. Just look at ISH.:lol

he was never a villian

[Kyle_korver]

Wade has a better career than LeBron IMO. Better playoff runs, similiar stats. Career wise, the only players that comes close to LeBron statistically are Wade, Chris Paul, Duncan and Shaq.

Are you retarded?... This post made me mad.. Lebrons stats are historical ... Just cause their teammates.. People love to underrated lebrons career .. I'm mad!!!!

[canefandynasty]

Are you retarded?... This post made me mad.. Lebrons stats are historical ... Just cause their teammates.. People love to underrated lebrons career .. I'm mad!!!!

Huh?

LeBron is second in career PER, Wade is sixth. Wade is also freakish statistically. LeBron isn't that much better statistically.

[rzp]

3 titles in a row and they will be top 10 imo.

[canefandynasty]

3 titles in a row and they will be top 10 imo.

If Wade win FMVP 4 times he is TOP 5 IMO.

[rmt]

3 titles in a row and they will be top 10 imo.

So exactly who will they be displacing in the top 10?

[canefandynasty]

So exactly who will they be displacing in the top 10?

If Wade wins FMVP for like the 5 next years, it's.....

Jordan
Wade
Kareem
Wilt
Russell

[rzp]

So exactly who will they be displacing in the top 10?

Kobe/Hakeem

[rmt]

If Wade wins FMVP for like the 5 next years, it's.....

Jordan
Wade
Kareem
Wilt
Russell

That's a big if - especially since he'll be sharing with Lebron.

[rmt]

If Wade win FMVP 4 times he is TOP 5 IMO.

Do you know how hard it is to win 3 FMVPs? I believe only Jordan, Magic, Shaq and Duncan have done it (since it's been in existence, ie.).

[Samurai Swoosh]

he was never a villian
For the general public this year, ever since July 2010 ... he's def. become a villian bro.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

If they win 3 NBA Championships together and FMVP is even, then
LeBron 3 titles, 2 FMVP, 2 regular Season MVP
D-Wade 4 titles, 2 FMVP
Yeah, they definitely will be up there. Problem is the top 10 is running out of room.

[Christofire]

They both have a shot. If wade wins a couple more rings and finals mvp then why not? Finals Mvp > Regular Season Mvp in my opinion.


1 Finals MVP > 2 regular season MVP awards in My opinion.
Wade will always have one more ring than leBron, because i doubt james gets any more when wade retires.
Wade and LeBron have been to the playoffs the smae amount of times nad have been to the conference finals the same amount of times, they have been to the finals both once, Wade won his and james got swept.

I really dont see how history wil be Kinder to james when infact he gave up on being the man in the athletic prime of his career to become a second option to another great player in Wade, that has had better production against elite playoff competition. If wade gets all the finals MVPs then Wade will be rembered as the better player no question.

[Christofire]

Huh?

LeBron is second in career PER, Wade is sixth. Wade is also freakish statistically. LeBron isn't that much better statistically.

PER is irrelevant.....James is a stat whore that protect his FG% and pads his rebounds.....This is a closers league. Wade has had the better career. James is a regular season front runner, that has beaten only one playoff team with an above .500 recordd.

[canefandynasty]

1 Finals MVP > 2 regular season MVP awards in My opinion.
Wade will always have one more ring than leBron, because i doubt james gets any more when wade retires.
Wade and LeBron have been to the playoffs the smae amount of times nad have been to the conference finals the same amount of times, they have been to the finals both once, Wade won his and james got swept.

I really dont see how history wil be Kinder to james when infact he gave up on being the man in the athletic prime of his career to become a second option to another great player in Wade, that has had better production against elite playoff competition. If wade gets all the finals MVPs then Wade will be rembered as the better player no question.

QFT.

[kaiiu]

PER is irrelevant.....James is a stat whore that protect his FG% and pads his rebounds.....This is a closers league. Wade has had the better career. James is a regular season front runner, that has beaten only one playoff team with an above .500 recordd.
:applause:

Wade closed the deal yesterday to. He had like 5 points in OT and 24 after the 1st quarter

[canefandynasty]

PER is irrelevant.....James is a stat whore that protect his FG% and pads his rebounds.....This is a closers league. Wade has had the better career. James is a regular season front runner, that has beaten only one playoff team with an above .500 recordd.

I definitely agree. Wade has performed better in the playoffs against elite defensive teams:
http://www.backpicks.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/wade-kobe-lebron-playoff-breakdown-by-defense1.jpg

[Simple Jack]

1 Finals MVP > 2 regular season MVP awards in My opinion.
Wade will always have one more ring than leBron, because i doubt james gets any more when wade retires.
Wade and LeBron have been to the playoffs the smae amount of times nad have been to the conference finals the same amount of times, they have been to the finals both once, Wade won his and james got swept.

I really dont see how history wil be Kinder to james when infact he gave up on being the man in the athletic prime of his career to become a second option to another great player in Wade, that has had better production against elite playoff competition. If wade gets all the finals MVPs then Wade will be rembered as the better player no question.

So Billups is ranked higher than Bron right now? Parker too?

Since when is LeBron the 2nd option? I'm assuming you wouldn't support that statement if Wade decided to come to Cleveland. In that case, it's about who changed their address rather than who's the better player? You guys are like a disease, it's sickening. The biggest trolls on this forum, who offer little to no evidence, 0 logic, and constantly troll, happen to be the ones who hate on this Miami team. It's actually not very surprising.

[DMAVS41]

So Billups is ranked higher than Bron right now? Parker too?

Since when is LeBron the 2nd option? I'm assuming you wouldn't support that statement if Wade decided to come to Cleveland. In that case, it's about who changed their address rather than who's the better player? You guys are like a disease, it's sickening. The biggest trolls on this forum, who offer little to no evidence, 0 logic, and constantly troll, happen to be the ones who hate on this Miami team. It's actually not very surprising.

I don't think Lebron is any better than Wade, but there is no doubt who the basketball world thinks is the man on the Heat.

Lebron had 522 MVP points. Wade had 24.
Lebron made 1st team all defense. Wade didn't make either team.
Lebron will make 1st team all nba. Wade will make 2nd team all nba.

I disagree with the notion that Lebron is a much better basketball player, but there is no doubt who is "the man" on this Heat team throughout the basketball world. And that is Lebron by a mile.

[canefandynasty]

I don't think Lebron is any better than Wade, but there is no doubt who the basketball world thinks is the man on the Heat.

Lebron had 522 MVP points. Wade had 24.
Lebron made 1st team all defense. Wade didn't make either team.
Lebron will make 1st team all nba. Wade will make 2nd team all nba.

I disagree with the notion that Lebron is a much better basketball player, but there is no doubt who is "the man" on this Heat team throughout the basketball world. And that is Lebron by a mile.

QFT.

[Kingwillball]

I don't think Lebron is any better than Wade, but there is no doubt who the basketball world thinks is the man on the Heat.

Lebron had 522 MVP points. Wade had 24.
Lebron made 1st team all defense. Wade didn't make either team.
Lebron will make 1st team all nba. Wade will make 2nd team all nba.

I disagree with the notion that Lebron is a much better basketball player, but there is no doubt who is "the man" on this Heat team throughout the basketball world. And that is Lebron by a mile.


Agreed and coming from a Lebron fan I have always Respected Dwade's game but watching him up close this year has made me appreciate him even more..Just like in the NBA finals if Stats are close between the two Lebron would probably win the award because of all the media respect and Stern trying to make him the new face of basketball.

[Christofire]

So Billups is ranked higher than Bron right now? Parker too?

Since when is LeBron the 2nd option? I'm assuming you wouldn't support that statement if Wade decided to come to Cleveland. In that case, it's about who changed their address rather than who's the better player? You guys are like a disease, it's sickening. The biggest trolls on this forum, who offer little to no evidence, 0 logic, and constantly troll, happen to be the ones who hate on this Miami team. It's actually not very surprising.


don't be obtuse.....Obviously billlups and parker are not better than James, but a finals MVP is still better than a league MVP.


if we go by MVP than NASH > Dirk, Wade, Kobe etc.

Rose > Wade

NASH = LeBron.... do you agree with these?


regular season MVPs are borderline meaningless. It's not even an award that goes to the best player. it goes to the best player on the team with the best record, or to the player that is most important to their team's success.


FMVP means you were the best player in an NBA finals series, and you were the best player when it really matters. Clearly an FMVP is worth more than a regular season MVP, only an idiot would see different. Furthermore Wade's production throughout the playoffs that year and in the Finals was legendary and arguably unrivaled. James is a sellout. a 26 year old in his athletic prime signing on to be a sidekick is absurd.

[kaiiu]

don't be obtuse.....Obviously billlups and parker are not better than James, but a finals MVP is still better than a league MVP.


if we go by MVP than NASH > Dirk, Wade, Kobe etc.

Rose > Wade

NASH = LeBron.... do you agree with these?


regular season MVPs are borderline meaningless. It's not even an award that goes to the best player. it goes to the best player on the team with the best record, or to the player that is most important to their team's success.


FMVP means you were the best player in an NBA finals series, and you were the best player when it really matters. Clearly an FMVP is worth more than a regular season MVP, only an idiot would see different. Furthermore Wade's production throughout the playoffs that year and in the Finals was legendary and arguably unrivaled. James is a sellout. a 26 year old in his athletic prime signing on to be a sidekick is absurd.
:roll: :roll:

the funny thing is lebron thinks if he stat pads enough he can fool basketball fans into thinking he i Batman.

[DMAVS41]

don't be obtuse.....Obviously billlups and parker are not better than James, but a finals MVP is still better than a league MVP.


if we go by MVP than NASH > Dirk, Wade, Kobe etc.

Rose > Wade

NASH = LeBron.... do you agree with these?


regular season MVPs are borderline meaningless. It's not even an award that goes to the best player. it goes to the best player on the team with the best record, or to the player that is most important to their team's success.


FMVP means you were the best player in an NBA finals series, and you were the best player when it really matters. Clearly an FMVP is worth more than a regular season MVP, only an idiot would see different. Furthermore Wade's production throughout the playoffs that year and in the Finals was legendary and arguably unrivaled. James is a sellout. a 26 year old in his athletic prime signing on to be a sidekick is absurd.

You can't be called a sidekick if the entire basketball world thinks you are the best player on the team.

A sidekick is pippen or mchale or gasol....or kobe the first 2 titles with shaq.

Lebron is not a sidekick. Neither is Wade really.

[Christofire]

I don't think Lebron is any better than Wade, but there is no doubt who the basketball world thinks is the man on the Heat.

Lebron had 522 MVP points. Wade had 24.
Lebron made 1st team all defense. Wade didn't make either team.
Lebron will make 1st team all nba. Wade will make 2nd team all nba.

I disagree with the notion that Lebron is a much better basketball player, but there is no doubt who is "the man" on this Heat team throughout the basketball world. And that is Lebron by a mile.


It's like Kobe getting those BS 1st team nods the last 2 seasons. The Media are still trying their hardest to market James as the best thing since sliced bread when he is not even the best player on his team. Wade plays on one of the best defensive temas in the league for pete's sake, the guy can't even get the respect to get on the NBA all defensive 1st team. The guy is the best shotblocking wing player in the league, one of the best steals guys, and the best on ball defender among superstars and they snubbed him. This is f**king ridiculous. meanwhile we're watching James getting tourched by his matchups now as we speak.

[Simple Jack]

It's like Kobe getting those BS 1st team nods the last 2 seasons. The Media are still trying their hardest to market James as the best thing since sliced bread when he is not even the best player on his team. Wade plays on one of the best defensive temas in the league for pete's sake, the guy can't even get the respect to get on the NBA all defensive 1st team. The guy is the best shotblocking wing player in the league, one of the best steals guys, and the best on ball defender among superstars and they snubbed him. This is f**king ridiculous. meanwhile we're watching James getting tourched by his matchups now as we speak.

Igoudala was absolute garbage in the series against the Heat.

Pierce is at about his season average (less in FG%).

Which of his matchups are "torching" him?

[Christofire]

:roll: :roll:

the funny thing is lebron thinks if he stat pads enough he can fool basketball fans into thinking he i Batman.


sadly i think it actually works. I hate watching him run in from the 3 point line to grab a board that could've easily been cleared by his big man, he was doing it all last night in Boston. These advanced stat head and triple double whore are slowly killing team basketball, because they are under the impression that in order for a team to be successful that you need to go out there and gets 10-10-10 every night instead of letting guys plays their roles and you be great at yours. Duncan, manu, and Parker. those guys were goin out there playin for stas, they were playing their roles to the tee. I miss those days where guys were great playin their roles to the Tee. I hate getting the feeling that a guy is playing for stats, and i get that feeling to often when i watch james.

[arifgokcen]

It's like Kobe getting those BS 1st team nods the last 2 seasons. The Media are still trying their hardest to market James as the best thing since sliced bread when he is not even the best player on his team. Wade plays on one of the best defensive temas in the league for pete's sake, the guy can't even get the respect to get on the NBA all defensive 1st team. The guy is the best shotblocking wing player in the league, one of the best steals guys, and the best on ball defender among superstars and they snubbed him. This is f**king ridiculous. meanwhile we're watching James getting tourched by his matchups now as we speak.

Wade is lazy defender gambles a lot that causes heat to have much better defense while he is on the bench.But lebron's perimeter defense resembles dwight's paint defense.Because of his wingspan and his ability to defend and help effectively heat is much better when he is on the floor and you can see that when he is on the bench heat gives up a lot of open perimeter shots.Even his coach said he deserves Dpoy considerations.Wade is not on the defensive team because of his lack discipline on that end.But he puts his mind into it,he is without a doubt one of the best defenders in the league.

I dont know why you even argue which one is better.Lebron is clearly the better player.Media hyping him is merely the results on the court.Actually there is not even a debate on this topic much of the time.Debate is generally wheter howard is better or not.Not wade.

[Christofire]

Igoudala was absolute garbage in the series against the Heat.

Pierce is at about his season average (less in FG%).

Which of his matchups are "torching" him?

iguodala just turned in the worst season of his career...were you expecting him to just turn on the jets in the playoffs?.....he averaged 14 pts in the regular season. The only thing great for iggy this season was his defense and his passing. james doesn't exactly have to guard very many big players at his position. talk about how he averaged 21 against lebron in the playoffs last season....21-6-7,....40% from 3land..... Iggy was clearly not the same player this season that he was last season


James is one of the more overrated defenders in the league. paul pierce is still a better defender than he is and so is luol deng and iguodala.

[arifgokcen]

sadly i think it actually works. I hate watching him run in from the 3 point line to grab a board that could've easily been cleared by his big man, he was doing it all last night in Boston. These advanced stat head and triple double whore are slowly killing team basketball, because they are under the impression that in order for a team to be successful that you need to go out there and gets 10-10-10 every night instead of letting guys plays their roles and you be great at yours. Duncan, manu, and Parker. those guys were goin out there playin for stas, they were playing their roles to the tee. I miss those days where guys were great playin their roles to the Tee. I hate getting the feeling that a guy is playing for stats, and i get that feeling to often when i watch james.

Tell that to nba coaches.Rebounding is bad ha.Do you know boston actually allows rondo to grab rebounds rather than their big man.Because they can initiate fast break immediately.BTW dont forget heat's center is joel no-hand anthony and bosh is as soft as a pf gets.You moron

[Christofire]

Wade is lazy defender gambles a lot that causes heat to have much better defense while he is on the bench.But lebron's perimeter defense resembles dwight's paint defense.Because of his wingspan and his ability to defend and help effectively heat is much better when he is on the floor and you can see that when he is on the bench heat gives up a lot of open perimeter shots.Even his coach said he deserves Dpoy considerations.Wade is not on the defensive team because of his lack discipline on that end.But he puts his mind into it,he is without a doubt one of the best defenders in the league.

I dont know why you even argue which one is better.Lebron is clearly the better player.Media hyping him is merely the results on the court.Actually there is not even a debate on this topic much of the time.Debate is generally wheter howard is better or not.Not wade.


i guess that why he's getting smoke from paul pierce right?.....james man to man defense is overrated. he bittes on upfakes and gets crossed to much, plus he sucks at fighting through screens...the strongest part of his defense is helping.

[whoartthou]

I will say this. If kobe can do it, i am sure bron/wade can.
:confusedshrug:

[Christofire]

Tell that to nba coaches.Rebounding is bad ha.Do you know boston actually allows rondo to grab rebounds rather than their big man.Because they can initiate fast break immediately.BTW dont forget heat's center is joel no-hand anthony and bosh is as soft as a pf gets.You moron


what makes rondo a great rebounder is no the fact that we let him grab d rebs, it;s his ability to track down OFFENSIVE rebounds. i don't give a rat's *ss about defensive rebounding totals for a PG, they have no business in their battling for a Dreb unless it's a ball that only they can make a play on our they are the closest person to it.

[kaiiu]

sadly i think it actually works. I hate watching him run in from the 3 point line to grab a board that could've easily been cleared by his big man, he was doing it all last night in Boston. These advanced stat head and triple double whore are slowly killing team basketball, because they are under the impression that in order for a team to be successful that you need to go out there and gets 10-10-10 every night instead of letting guys plays their roles and you be great at yours. Duncan, manu, and Parker. those guys were goin out there playin for stas, they were playing their roles to the tee. I miss those days where guys were great playin their roles to the Tee. I hate getting the feeling that a guy is playing for stats, and i get that feeling to often when i watch james.
Larry Bird is the only player who I think could average those type of all around numbers without hurting his teammates production or dominating the basketball

[DMAVS41]

sadly i think it actually works. I hate watching him run in from the 3 point line to grab a board that could've easily been cleared by his big man, he was doing it all last night in Boston. These advanced stat head and triple double whore are slowly killing team basketball, because they are under the impression that in order for a team to be successful that you need to go out there and gets 10-10-10 every night instead of letting guys plays their roles and you be great at yours. Duncan, manu, and Parker. those guys were goin out there playin for stas, they were playing their roles to the tee. I miss those days where guys were great playin their roles to the Tee. I hate getting the feeling that a guy is playing for stats, and i get that feeling to often when i watch james.

Yep.

Its all empty stats. He didn't accomplish anything in his career yet. Just turned a 17 win team into a contender in 4 years. Never lost in the first round. Two 60 plus win teams. A trip to the Finals. A trip to the ECF. Came the closest to beating Boston in 08 out of anyone. Another 1st round win this year and on the verge of beat the Celtics.

Yep. All empty stats.
:facepalm

[arifgokcen]

i guess that why he's getting smoke from paul pierce right?.....james man to man defense is overrated. he bittes on upfakes and gets crossed to much, plus he sucks at fighting through screens...the strongest part of his defense is helping.

Pierce has actually reversed the history by posting good numbers against lebron for the first time in three seasons(since lebron became all 1 team defense) and you know that at sf spot only iggy defended his opponents better than lebron while almost scoring half of what lebron scored and of course almost two rebounds less he gathered.So he is the best defensive player that sf positions offer.BTW you are right strongest part of his defense was helping this is why heats perimeter defense are much better with him on the floor.

[arifgokcen]

what makes rondo a great rebounder is no the fact that we let him grab d rebs, it;s his ability to track down OFFENSIVE rebounds. i don't give a rat's *ss about defensive rebounding totals for a PG, they have no business in their battling for a Dreb unless it's a ball that only they can make a play on our they are the closest person to it.

You dont have a ****ing clue about basketball then.I guess all the nba coaches apparently suck.Not a single coach would tell his players let big man get the rebounds.You moron

[DMAVS41]

Pierce has actually reversed the history by posting good numbers against lebron for the first time in three seasons(since lebron became all 1 team defense) and you know that at sf spot only iggy defended his opponents better than lebron while almost scoring half of what lebron scored and of course almost two rebounds less he gathered.So he is the best defensive player that sf positions offer.BTW you are right strongest part of his defense was helping this is why heats perimeter defense are much better with him on the floor.

Yep. And oh by the way. Lebron destroys pierce head to head:

http://www.backpicks.com/2011/02/16/lebrons-lockdown-paul-pierces-career-vs-james/

[arifgokcen]

Yep. And oh by the way. Lebron destroys pierce head to head:

http://www.backpicks.com/2011/02/16/lebrons-lockdown-paul-pierces-career-vs-james/

I know this is the first time he posted good numbers against lebron in three years.The guy is just lebron hater and a moron.Whatever you say is not gonna change his mind wheter its wrong or right.

Edit hey Christofire read the page

get educated a little bit then come here and talk

http://www.backpicks.com/2011/02/16/lebrons-lockdown-paul-pierces-career-vs-james/

[Christofire]

Yep.

Its all empty stats. He didn't accomplish anything in his career yet. Just turned a 17 win team into a contender in 4 years. Never lost in the first round. Two 60 plus win teams. A trip to the Finals. A trip to the ECF. Came the closest to beating Boston in 08 out of anyone. Another 1st round win this year and on the verge of beat the Celtics.

Yep. All empty stats.
:facepalm

- 07 = fluke....he played grabage teams and an over the hill pistonsteam on to being swept.
- Derrick rose took us to 7 games in the first round in 09
- Kevin durant and Derrick Rose turned their team into a title contender in 2-3 seasons . Durant did it in the toughest conference in basketball(west). Rose did in a more competative version of the eastern conference.


furthermore, i never said James didnt accomplish anything. I just dont respect cowards that give up and run away, and expect to still be labeled as the best player in this league.

[Christofire]

I know this is the first time he posted good numbers against lebron in three years.The guy is just lebron hater and a moron.Whatever you say is not gonna change his mind wheter its wrong or right.

Edit hey Christofire read the page

get educated a little bit then come here and talk

http://www.backpicks.com/2011/02/16/lebrons-lockdown-paul-pierces-career-vs-james/


Well you can support a coward and quiiter while i support Champions and guys that are loyal and exhibit courage under fire. You're mad because you know James failed as the man and gave up.

[DMAVS41]

- 07 = fluke....he played grabage teams and an over the hill pistonsteam on to being swept.
- Derrick rose took us to 7 games in the first round in 09
- Kevin durant and Derrick Rose turned their team into a title contender in 2-3 seasons . Durant did it in the toughest conference in basketball(west). Rose did in a more competative version of the eastern conference.


furthermore, i never said James didnt accomplish anything. I just dont respect cowards that give up and run away, and expect to still be labeled as the best player in this league.

-excuses
-celtics didn't have kg
-not even remotely the same level of help. Lebron had much less help.
LOL at Perkins/Westbrook/Harden/Thabo/Ibaka or Boozer/Noah/Deng compared to what Lebron had

Empty stats......:facepalm

[kaiiu]

-excuses
-celtics didn't have kg
-not even remotely the same level of help. Lebron had much less help.
LOL at Perkins/Westbrook/Harden/Thabo/Ibaka or Boozer/Noah/Deng compared to what Lebron had

Empty stats......:facepalm
Dude faced trash teams in 07 up until the Spurs in which he got exposed.

Lebron played pretty bad in that series up until game 7. Great defense by the
Cavs made that series a record setting low in scoring.

Lebrons Cavs team 03-08 wouldnt be contenders in this version of the eastern conference so it doesnt matter.

[Christofire]

-excuses
-celtics didn't have kg
-not even remotely the same level of help. Lebron had much less help.
LOL at Perkins/Westbrook/Harden/Thabo/Ibaka or Boozer/Noah/Deng compared to what Lebron had

Empty stats......:facepalm


give me a break...durant carried a team filled with 1st and second year player to a 50 win season with nenad kristic at starter...he averaged 3..his second highest scorer in westbrook averaged 16...... save the excuses james is a failure and coward sidekick.


James played much weaker compo....yes and lets make it seem that james was surrounded by absolute trash...lets pretened that mo wasnt averaging 18 points, and that he wasn't surrounded by one of the best defensive teams in the league..lets preneted that he wasnt on the team with one of the best 3pt FG%s.......let's keep rpetending....



let's pretend that james dint give up, let's prentend that he didn't run away like a coward to take the easy road to victory by jumping on wade's back. let's keep pretending.

[arifgokcen]

- 07 = fluke....he played grabage teams and an over the hill pistonsteam on to being swept.
- Derrick rose took us to 7 games in the first round in 09
- Kevin durant and Derrick Rose turned their team into a title contender in 2-3 seasons . Durant did it in the toughest conference in basketball(west). Rose did in a more competative version of the eastern conference.


furthermore, i never said James didnt accomplish anything. I just dont respect cowards that give up and run away, and expect to still be labeled as the best player in this league.

Let me put it this way you are not playing street ball you are playing team ball.Which means you have to have players.By your reasoning rose and durant was better than jordan at their respective ages.Yeah think about that for a minute.Bulls was never a threat until pippen became a star and phil jackson became head coach.Man you really are a moron

So your best player needs to be loyal otherwise he cant be best wow thats just getting better and better.How old r u exactly.Because even my niece at 5 years old can come up with better reasoning than that.

[DMAVS41]

give me a break...durant carried a team filled with 1st and second year player to a 50 win season with nenad kristic at starter...he averaged 3..his second highest scorer in westbrook averaged 16...... save the excuses james is a failure and coward sidekick.


James played much weaker compo....yes and lets make it seem that james was surrounded by absolute trash...lets pretened that mo wasnt averaging 18 points, and that he wasn't surrounded by one of the best defensive teams in the league..lets preneted that he wasnt on the team with one of the best 3pt FG%s.......let's keep rpetending....



let's pretend that james dint give up, let's prentend that he didn't run away like a coward to take the easy road to victory by jumping on wade's back. let's keep pretending.

yep.

let's keep pretending that Lebron isn't one of the best players of all time and that his first 8 years don't already place him in the top 20 of all time.

lets pretend that Lebron should have won without a 2nd option and a bunch of one dimensional specialists.

for the sake of 99% of this board, I almost hope Lebron doesn't ever win a title. Its going to get ugly as hell if he starts winning rings.

Going to be MJ all over again. Had all these same arguments 25 years ago. People saying all the same crap. Empty stats, not a team player, can't win like that...etc.

How did that work out for all the people hating on Jordan his first 6 years?

[Simple Jack]

iguodala just turned in the worst season of his career...were you expecting him to just turn on the jets in the playoffs?.....he averaged 14 pts in the regular season. The only thing great for iggy this season was his defense and his passing. james doesn't exactly have to guard very many big players at his position. talk about how he averaged 21 against lebron in the playoffs last season....21-6-7,....40% from 3land..... Iggy was clearly not the same player this season that he was last season


James is one of the more overrated defenders in the league. paul pierce is still a better defender than he is and so is luol deng and iguodala.

Oh right so you expected the 2/8 3/10 and 2/7 games. Ok.

[arifgokcen]

give me a break...durant carried a team filled with 1st and second year player to a 50 win season with nenad kristic at starter...he averaged 3..his second highest scorer in westbrook averaged 16...... save the excuses james is a failure and coward sidekick.


James played much weaker compo....yes and lets make it seem that james was surrounded by absolute trash...lets pretened that mo wasnt averaging 18 points, and that he wasn't surrounded by one of the best defensive teams in the league..lets preneted that he wasnt on the team with one of the best 3pt FG%s.......let's keep rpetending....



let's pretend that james dint give up, let's prentend that he didn't run away like a coward to take the easy road to victory by jumping on wade's back. let's keep pretending.

Oh i get it you are butt hurt cavs fan.

you know just look up these stats how much cavs at that time suffered the moment he got out of the game.

Look at this year as soon as rose gets out their defense intensity significantly increases and you know while durant was absent during 4 game stretch okc went on a little winning streak.

You really are butt hurt cavs fan.Man sorry i called you moron i havent thought of you guys from being 1st for two years to the bottom of the league.Your defense was not because of coach but because of lebron and his ability to cover ground like no other.anyway hope you guys can get up :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Simple Jack]

- 07 = fluke....he played grabage teams and an over the hill pistonsteam on to being swept.
- Derrick rose took us to 7 games in the first round in 09
- Kevin durant and Derrick Rose turned their team into a title contender in 2-3 seasons . Durant did it in the toughest conference in basketball(west). Rose did in a more competative version of the eastern conference.


furthermore, i never said James didnt accomplish anything. I just dont respect cowards that give up and run away, and expect to still be labeled as the best player in this league.


Best player in the league has to do with how good you are, not what you do off the court. This is the problem with you idiots. You let your emotions dictate how you analyze or rank a player.

[DMAVS41]

Best player in the league has to do with how good you are, not what you do off the court. This is the problem with you idiots. You let your emotions dictate how you analyze or rank a player.

Bingo.

LOL at anyone thinking Lebron's off court actions impact how we should rank him as a basketball player.

[arifgokcen]

Bingo.

LOL at anyone thinking Lebron's off court actions impact how we should rank him as a basketball player.

My friend didnt you understand he is cavs fan.He is really hurting let him be
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[arifgokcen]

Best player in the league has to do with how good you are, not what you do off the court. This is the problem with you idiots. You let your emotions dictate how you analyze or rank a player.

+1

[Christofire]

never said James isnt an ll time great, he's just overrated at mostly everything he does. I never said he's not a top 3-5 player in this league. He's just overrated at everything he does. he's also a quitter and a coward. It's my opinion and i'm entitled. Dirk is far more respectable than james. Dirk is as loyal as they come. he;s not a stat whore, he;s not an attention whore, he's always been the man. Dirk has never shown signs of cowardice. Dirk has fallen flat on his face in his career in the playoffs but he keeps coming back every year with same determined approach... i cannot say the same for leBron.

[Simple Jack]

never said James isnt an ll time great, he's just overrated at mostly everything he does. I never said he's not a top 3-5 player in this league. He's just overrated at everything he does. he's also a quitter and a coward. It's my opinion and i'm entitled. Dirk is far more respectable than james. Dirk is as loyal as they come. he;s not a stat whore, he;s not an attention whore, he's always been the man. Dirk has never shown signs of cowardice. Dirk has fallen flat on his face in his career in the playoffs but he keeps coming back every year with same determined approach... i cannot say the same for leBron.

You can't say the same for Kobe either despite you supporting him over LeBron James in this regard.

Kobe grabbing 10+ rebounds after a 6/24 performance? Great, he saved the game!

LeBron putting up 10+ rebounds? Stat-padding.

Kobe quitting against Phoenix and lying down in the face of defeat (08 and 11)? It's ok, it's Kobe.

LeBron playing better than Kobe had vs Boston but losing? He quit.

LeBron not shaking hands? He's a coward and a brat.

Kobe not shaking hands? Do we even remember that anymore?

It's very clear you have a bias; it's been exposed on multiple occasions. On top of that, you have a double standard for James where he literally cannot do anything right. You couldn't make it more evident than you have already.

On another note, there was no more "swooping in and stealing rebounds" last night, than any other player who is going to grab 10+ as a wing.

[Ikill]

1 Finals MVP > 2 regular season MVP awards in My opinion.
Wade will always have one more ring than leBron, because i doubt james gets any more when wade retires.
Wade and LeBron have been to the playoffs the smae amount of times nad have been to the conference finals the same amount of times, they have been to the finals both once, Wade won his and james got swept.

I really dont see how history wil be Kinder to james when infact he gave up on being the man in the athletic prime of his career to become a second option to another great player in Wade, that has had better production against elite playoff competition. If wade gets all the finals MVPs then Wade will be rembered as the better player no question.
No way 1 finals mvp is worth two mvps but 1 FMVP could be worth 1 MVP depending on how its won and in Wades case yes his finals MVP is worth at least one of Lebrons MVP. Lebrons career numbers are better too so yeah his career is a bit better.

[Christofire]

You can't say the same for Kobe either despite you supporting him over LeBron James in this regard.

Kobe grabbing 10+ rebounds after a 6/24 performance? Great, he saved the game!

LeBron putting up 10+ rebounds? Stat-padding.

Kobe quitting against Phoenix and lying down in the face of defeat (08 and 11)? It's ok, it's Kobe.

LeBron playing better than Kobe had vs Boston but losing? He quit.

LeBron not shaking hands? He's a coward and a brat.

Kobe not shaking hands? Do we even remember that anymore?

It's very clear you have a bias; it's been exposed on multiple occasions. On top of that, you have a double standard for James where he literally cannot do anything right. You couldn't make it more evident than you have already.

On another note, there was no more "swooping in and stealing rebounds" last night, than any other player who is going to grab 10+ as a wing.

Kobe didnt run away from his team to become a sidekick. Also have you ever seen me praisng kobe for his bad game 7?.....i never made any mention of him grabbing 10+ boards....lol @ Kobe quitting against phoenix....you would think that wouldnt you. one can say he quit in 08 against my Cs, but even that was questionable lthat game was OVER!!

[Ikill]

Wade needs 3 or more tittles 1 FMVP 1 mvp or 3 or more tittles 2 FMVP and should keep his career averages around 24-25/5-6/5-6/ 48%

Lebrons needs 2 or more tittles 1 FMVP and should keep his career averages 26-27/6-7/6-7 47%

So they finish with
Wade:4 tittles 3 FMVP 24/5/5 48% fg at worst and most realistic
Lebron 2 tittles 1 FMVP 2 mvp 26/6/6 47% fg at worst realistic

[Christofire]

No way 1 finals mvp is worth two mvps but 1 FMVP could be worth 1 MVP depending on how its won and in Wades case yes his finals MVP is worth at least one of Lebrons MVP. Lebrons career numbers are better too so yeah his career is a bit better.


So what makes Jordan better than lebron?......LeBron has Better career numbers than Jordan...so is lebron better than Jordan?.....


28-7-7.... is better than 30-6-5.....but i bet you most certainly point to Jordan rings and FMVPs as making him better than lebron right?...... Jordan up this point attempted way more shots than leBron has as well.


What i dont get is how when players are compared to jordan people love pointing out rings and MVPS or what have you, but when it comes to leBron since he's ringless rings and finals MVPS cannot be used.....


Wade is better because he's been relatively just as productive and has been productive when it mattered aand has a ring to show for it. I dont hear excuses being made for Tracy mcgrady who played on the worst teams of any modern day star.

[Ikill]

So what makes Jordan better than lebron?......LeBron has Better career numbers than Jordan...so is lebron better than Jordan?.....


28-7-7.... is better than 30-6-5.....but i bet you most certainly point to Jordan rings and FMVPs as making him better than lebron right?...... Jordan up this point attempted way more shots than leBron has as well.


What i dont get is how when players are compared to jordan people love pointing out rings and MVPS or what have you, but when it comes to leBron since he's ringless rings and finals MVPS cannot be used.....


Wade is better because he's been relatively just as productive and has been productive when it mattered aand has a ring to show for it. I dont hear excuses being made for Tracy mcgrady who played on the worst teams of any modern day star.
Lebrons career aint over those numbers are going down just like Jordans did Lebron will probably finish with 26/6/6 or something

[lilgodfather1]

Lebrons career aint over those numbers are going down just like Jordans did Lebron will probably finish with 26/6/6 or something
That would still make LeBron's numbers historic. He would be the only player to ever average such.

[Ikill]

That would still make LeBron's numbers historic. He would be the only player to ever average such.
True thats why i said Lebron doesn't need to finish with much more just two tittles and he's top 10. 4 tittles with 4 FMVP he might be top 5 but Jordans numbers are still a bit better.

[Christofire]

True thats why i said Lebron doesn't need to finish with much more just two tittles and he's top 10. 4 tittles with 4 FMVP he might be top 5 but Jordans numbers are still a bit better.

2 points make it better?........James numbers are better on any stat sheet

[Ikill]

2 points make it better?........James numbers are better on any stat sheet
What Lebron will finish with will be worse than Jordans stats but what Lebron has now 28/7/7/2/1 48% is about equal to Jordans 30/6/5/2/1 50% maybe a bit better. Jordan has more points better fg% and more steals Lebron has more rebounds and assists.

[Tez62]

Kareem won as the man without Magic and with young Magic.

Magic won as the man b2b with "his team" in 87-88.

Show me one top 10 player that hasn't won multiple titles as the man.


Still waiting on this... in any thread.

Who is he going to replace in the top 10??

[jrong]

Wade is lazy defender gambles a lot that causes heat to have much better defense while he is on the bench.But lebron's perimeter defense resembles dwight's paint defense.Because of his wingspan and his ability to defend and help effectively heat is much better when he is on the floor and you can see that when he is on the bench heat gives up a lot of open perimeter shots.Even his coach said he deserves Dpoy considerations.Wade is not on the defensive team because of his lack discipline on that end.But he puts his mind into it,he is without a doubt one of the best defenders in the league.

I dont know why you even argue which one is better.Lebron is clearly the better player.Media hyping him is merely the results on the court.Actually there is not even a debate on this topic much of the time.Debate is generally wheter howard is better or not.Not wade.

Yeah, that's all Wade is on defense. A lazy gambler. Gotcha.

And in case you haven't noticed Wade has identical stats to James in the playoffs, after posting nearly identical stats to him during the season. So if Wade isn't just about as good as him, the burden is on you to explain why the numbers say he is...

[Simple Jack]

Kobe didnt run away from his team to become a sidekick. Also have you ever seen me praisng kobe for his bad game 7?.....i never made any mention of him grabbing 10+ boards....lol @ Kobe quitting against phoenix....you would think that wouldnt you. one can say he quit in 08 against my Cs, but even that was questionable lthat game was OVER!!

Again, you use emotion rather than logic to rank players.

If Wade came to Cleveland? Would LeBron still be a sidekick? Or is it something OTHER than how good they actually are ON the court, that decides who's the sidekick?

Of course he quit against Phoenix. Just like LeBron did game 5 in Boston.

[DMAVS41]

Yeah, that's all Wade is on defense. A lazy gambler. Gotcha.

And in case, you haven't noticed Wade has identical stats to James in the playoffs, after nearly posting identical stats during the season. So if Wade isn't just about as good as him, the burden is on you to explain why the numbers say he is...

He is and has been throughout his entire career. And difference is slight at most.

Both play both ends better than any player at their position. Both players can carry a team in a number of ways. Both players put up all time great numbers in both the regular season and playoffs.

Overall, Lebron's numbers are a little better. Overall, Wade has played better against the best teams in the playoffs.

Lebron has 2 MVP's.
Wade has a title, a finals mvp, and one of the best finals performance of all time.

They are neck and neck with each other.

Anyone saying otherwise has an agenda or puts way too much emphasis on pointless accolades like all defense and all nba. guess what?...that stuff is now officially worthless.

[Simple Jack]

So what makes Jordan better than lebron?......LeBron has Better career numbers than Jordan...so is lebron better than Jordan?.....


28-7-7.... is better than 30-6-5.....but i bet you most certainly point to Jordan rings and FMVPs as making him better than lebron right?...... Jordan up this point attempted way more shots than leBron has as well.


What i dont get is how when players are compared to jordan people love pointing out rings and MVPS or what have you, but when it comes to leBron since he's ringless rings and finals MVPS cannot be used.....


Wade is better because he's been relatively just as productive and has been productive when it mattered aand has a ring to show for it. I dont hear excuses being made for Tracy mcgrady who played on the worst teams of any modern day star.

What part of rings being a team achievement do you not understand?

Why couldn't Kobe get it done this year, despite you saying he's better than LeBron? Could it be that his team didn't show up? Welcome to the 1st 7 years of LeBrons career. You judge players by how they play individually as well as what they accomplish with the talent around them. Leading those pathetic teams to the finals/60+ wins means nothing to you? Averaging 39 8 8 against Orlando means nothing?

When did Wade win his rings? When he had another player alongside of him who was 2nd in MVP voting and still one of, if not THE BEST center in the league. What has Wade done after that? You need talent to win a championship. LeBron simply didn't have it. Wade did for a time; Kobe had for most of his career (the years he didn't? blew 3-1 lead to suns, missed playoffs, and lost again to suns).

Jordan is better for a number of reasons other than rings.

[Christofire]

He is and has been throughout his entire career. And difference is slight at most.

Both play both ends better than any player at their position. Both players can carry a team in a number of ways. Both players put up all time great numbers in both the regular season and playoffs.

Overall, Lebron's numbers are a little better. Overall, Wade has played better against the best teams in the playoffs.

Lebron has 2 MVP's.
Wade has a title, a finals mvp, and one of the best finals performance of all time.

They are neck and neck with each other.

Anyone saying otherwise has an agenda or puts way too much emphasis on pointless accolades like all defense and all nba. guess what?...that stuff is now officially worthless.

james numbers being a little bit better is soley due to him playing 3 more minutes a game for his career.

[Colby Brian]

but but but but.. if lebron wins he had wade and got carried
or if wade wins he had lebron
:oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

What part of rings being a team achievement do you not understand?

Why couldn't Kobe get it done this year, despite you saying he's better than LeBron? Could it be that his team didn't show up? Welcome to the 1st 7 years of LeBrons career. You judge players by how they play individually as well as what they accomplish with the talent around them. Leading those pathetic teams to the finals/60+ wins means nothing to you? Averaging 39 8 8 against Orlando means nothing?

When did Wade win his rings? When he had another player alongside of him who was 2nd in MVP voting and still one of, if not THE BEST center in the league. What has Wade done after that? You need talent to win a championship. LeBron simply didn't have it. Wade did for a time; Kobe had for most of his career (the years he didn't? blew 3-1 lead to suns, missed playoffs, and lost again to suns).

Jordan is better for a number of reasons other than rings.
:applause:

Why is it that almost every player ever needed a lot of help to win the title?

LOL

Barry/Hakeem/Duncan are the only players in the last 40 years to win without a ton of help.

Hopefully Dirk adds his name to that list. :cheers:

[kaiiu]

why do Lebron fans get so caught up in this debate?:oldlol:

Obviously Lebron thought Wade was better because he chose to throw that Robin suit on for him

[Christofire]

What part of rings being a team achievement do you not understand?

Why couldn't Kobe get it done this year, despite you saying he's better than LeBron? Could it be that his team didn't show up? Welcome to the 1st 7 years of LeBrons career. You judge players by how they play individually as well as what they accomplish with the talent around them. Leading those pathetic teams to the finals/60+ wins means nothing to you? Averaging 39 8 8 against Orlando means nothing?

When did Wade win his rings? When he had another player alongside of him who was 2nd in MVP voting and still one of, if not THE BEST center in the league. What has Wade done after that? You need talent to win a championship. LeBron simply didn't have it. Wade did for a time; Kobe had for most of his career (the years he didn't? blew 3-1 lead to suns, missed playoffs, and lost again to suns).

Jordan is better for a number of reasons other than rings.

So let me get this straight...rings don't matter becasue they are a team accomplishment, so we shall rank the best Players by who is going out there posting the Gaudiest stats.....Ok i got you. F**k why sacrifice dominating the ball all the time for the betterment of the team to allow your teammates do their job and a have a role on the team and win a ring when You can dominate the ball, steal rebs from your Big men and run the point to rack up GODLY looking stats. It doesnt matter if you're sacrificing good ball movement and making your teammates one dimentional. Once you're getting the best stats and playing the best "iindividual" basketball and racking up regular season awards and failing in the playoffs by playing individual ball; it doesnt matter because RINGS dont matter, it's all about them there STATS. Why should i sacrifice some numbers and some touches to make the team more cohesive at the expense of my numbers just for some rings?....


Makes alot of sense now that i think about it.

[DMAVS41]

So let me get this straight...rings don't matter becasue they are a team accomplishment, so we shall rank the best Players by who is going out there posting the Gaudiest stats.....Ok i got you. F**k why sacrifice dominating the ball all the time for the betterment of the team to allow your teammates do your job and win a ring when You can dominate the ball, steal rebs from your Big men and run the point to rack up GODLY looking stats. It doesnt matter if you're sacrificing good ball movement and making your teammates one dimentional. Once your getting the best stats and playing the best "iindividual" basketball and racking up regular season awards and failing in the playoffs by playing individual ball; it doesnt matter because RINGS dont matter, it's all about them there STATS. Why should i sacrifice some numbers and some touch to make the team more cohesive at the expense of my numbers just for some rings?....


Makes alot of sense now that i think about it.

The problem with this post is that you act like Lebron's play killed the Cavs or something. Far from it actually. He didn't have enough help to win. Nobody is winning anything with those rosters on the Cavs in the history of the NBA as a perimeter player. Prime MJ might have won it in 09, but no way last year.

If Lebron never wins? Then you make very good points and Lebron will be looked at as "empty stats" to a certain degree. Now that Lebron has the pieces around him, there are no excuses.

He needs to prove his greatness by winning a couple rings. If he doesn't...you are right. If he does.....you are dead wrong.

Simple as that. We'll see how it plays out.

[Christofire]

why do Lebron fans get so caught up in this debate?:oldlol:

Obviously Lebron thought Wade was better because he chose to throw that Robin suit on for him


Lol.....lol@ best player in the league hangin up his batman suit for a robin get up.

[kaiiu]

Lol.....lol@ best player in the league hangin up his batman suit for a robin get up.
this remind me of the movie BATMAN & ROBIN when Robin wanted to be the man:oldlol:

[kaiiu]

The problem with this post is that you act like Lebron's play killed the Cavs or something. Far from it actually. He didn't have enough help to win. Nobody is winning anything with those rosters on the Cavs in the history of the NBA as a perimeter player. Prime MJ might have won it in 09, but no way last year.

If Lebron never wins? Then you make very good points and Lebron will be looked at as "empty stats" to a certain degree. Now that Lebron has the pieces around him, there are no excuses.

He needs to prove his greatness by winning a couple rings. If he doesn't...you are right. If he does.....you are dead wrong.

Simple as that. We'll see how it plays out.
we already been through this. Shaq, Jamison, Mo, Andy is more than enough to win a ring and any top 10 player and Wade would win a ring with it.

[DMAVS41]

we already been through this. Shaq, Jamison, Mo, Andy is more than enough to win a ring and any top 10 player and Wade would win a ring with it.

The Cavs were better in 09 actually.

Do you fault Lebron for his play against the Magic? Please answer. If it was so easy to win a ring.....how come Lebron's legendary series against the Magic wasn't good enough?

[kaiiu]

The Cavs were better in 09 actually.

Do you fault Lebron for his play against the Magic? Please answer. If it was so easy to win a ring.....how come Lebron's legendary series against the Magic wasn't good enough?
The Cavs had better chemistry and D in 09 but they were much more talented in 2010.

Because he hogged the fvck out of the ball and iced his shooters.

[Christofire]

The problem with this post is that you act like Lebron's play killed the Cavs or something. Far from it actually. He didn't have enough help to win. Nobody is winning anything with those rosters on the Cavs in the history of the NBA as a perimeter player. Prime MJ might have won it in 09, but no way last year.

If Lebron never wins? Then you make very good points and Lebron will be looked at as "empty stats" to a certain degree. Now that Lebron has the pieces around him, there are no excuses.

He needs to prove his greatness by winning a couple rings. If he doesn't...you are right. If he does.....you are dead wrong.

Simple as that. We'll see how it plays out.

Yes his play did...sure you can win regular season games playing one man ball when you're as good as leBron and play on a team that shot the ball the way they did and defended the way they did. But the problem is that in the playoffs when teams are forcing other guys to beat them your teammates will fall flat on their face, because they are asked to do things that they weren't getting the opportunity to do throughout the course of a season. They expected guys that did nothing but catch and shoot all season long to now become playmakes creating their own shot, when all year long james was stealin boards, running the point and shooting the bulk of the shots. So yes his style of play did kill the "team" conceptually.

[DMAVS41]

The Cavs had better chemistry and D in 09 but they were much more talented in 2010.

Because he hogged the fvck out of the ball and iced his shooters.

Well. Except that offense wasn't the problem. It was defense. It was the fact that mo and jamison got torched by rondo and kg.

Offense was never the issue for the Cavs in the playoffs really.

Howard scorched them in 09....Mo did play terrible though
KG/Rondo scorched them in 10

I don't know why people think Jamison sucked on offense for the Cavs. He did exactly what everyone thought he would. 15 points and 7 boards on 47% shooting for Jamison in the playoffs. Exactly what people thought he would do playing 2nd/3rd option.

It was his horrid defense and lack of toughness that hurt the Cavs. Same with Mo.

Love the revisionist history though.

[Christofire]

Also James doesnt have Pieces around him, because he is a piece around someone else....lol....


He should learn from guys like Kobe, Dirk, and even durant. These guys take the bulk of the shots on their team, but they do far much more in the flow of an offense so as to not impose on the roles of their teammates. people think their individual talent is the main reason their teams are good, but it has more to with how well their game meshes with the team concept. Which is why teams and coaches stress the importance of being able to play without the ball. it's not just for the sake of expanding your game, it's for the sake making the team more fluid and productive.


Jordan and Kobe are very fortunate to have been coached by phil jackson that forces his primary player to become a better player within the offense. james has yet to be taught this.

[Simple Jack]

why do Lebron fans get so caught up in this debate?:oldlol:

Obviously Lebron thought Wade was better because he chose to throw that Robin suit on for him

So him joining a team that has a great player means he thought that great player was better? How does that make any sense?

If he joined Chicago, it meant he thought Rose was better than him?

[gengiskhan]

To be fair ... Kobe should've been back-2-back MVP in 2006 and 2007.

Its amazing how many excuses after excuses after excuses are given for Kobe's inconsistency, inefficiency & low PER.

Kobe was never clear cut MVP in 2006. NEVER!. Kobe's shot jocking & low FG% cost Lakers 50 win season. so if Lakers dont win 50, kobe rightfully didn't win MVP. case closed. Kobe was more busy chasing 35ppg on teams expense. That 2006 kobe season is the single most overrated season in 2000 decade.


To be fair ... Kobe played in a more difficult conference. 2005, 2006, 2007, and 2008 the West was possibly the most difficult conference in sports, I've ever seen.


more garbage excuses for Kobe. MJ played whole 90s decade in the much more difficult eastern conference & still gave 4 MVPs.

so should we discredit barkleys '93 mvp & Karl's '97 MVP because Western conference was much easier back than compared to MJ's eastern conference.

Your logic is completely flawed. :facepalm

[kaiiu]

Well. Except that offense wasn't the problem. It was defense. It was the fact that mo and jamison got torched by rondo and kg.

Offense was never the issue for the Cavs in the playoffs really.

Howard scorched them in 09....Mo did play terrible though
KG/Rondo scorched them in 10

I don't know why people think Jamison sucked on offense for the Cavs. He did exactly what everyone thought he would. 15 points and 7 boards on 47% shooting for Jamison in the playoffs. Exactly what people thought he would do playing 2nd/3rd option.

It was his horrid defense and lack of toughness that hurt the Cavs. Same with Mo.

Love the revisionist history though.
Offense wasnt the problem at all. In 09 the cavs averaged over 100 PPG vs Orlando. Mike Brown was more the downfall. He refused to play D12 str8 up and he refused to put Lebron on Rashard. Pietrus had the best stretch of his life. Mo still averaged 18 ppg in that series.

lol thats because Lebron turned Jamison into a spot up shooter and Mike Brown barely ran any type of play for him.

So how can you blame 09 on his team?

[Colby Brian]

Its amazing how many excuses after excuses after excuses are given for Kobe's inconsistency, inefficiency & low PER.

Kobe was never clear cut MVP in 2006. NEVER!. Kobe's shot jocking & low FG% cost Lakers 50 win season. so if Lakers dont win 50, kobe rightfully didn't win MVP. case closed. Kobe was more busy chasing 35ppg on teams expense. That 2006 kobe season is the single most overrated season in 2000 decade.



more garbage excuses for Kobe. MJ played whole 90s decade in the much more difficult eastern conference & still gave 4 MVPs.

so should we discredit barkleys '93 mvp & Karl's '97 MVP because Western conference was much easier back than compared to MJ's eastern conference.

Your logic is completely flawed. :facepalm

:wtf:

idiot

western conf > eastern conf

kobe in 2005-06 season - 35/5/5..overrated?

[Simple Jack]

Offense wasnt the problem at all. In 09 the cavs averaged over 100 PPG vs Orlando. Mike Brown was more the downfall. He refused to play D12 str8 up and he refused to put Lebron on Rashard. Pietrus had the best stretch of his life. Mo still averaged 18 ppg in that series.

lol thats because Lebron turned Jamison into a spot up shooter and Mike Brown barely ran any type of play for him.

So how can you blame 09 on his team?

What was Mo's FG against Orlando?

What were the FG% for his team against Boston last year?

[DMAVS41]

Offense wasnt the problem at all. In 09 the cavs averaged over 100 PPG vs Orlando. Mike Brown was more the downfall. He refused to play D12 str8 up and he refused to put Lebron on Rashard. Pietrus had the best stretch of his life. Mo still averaged 18 ppg in that series.

lol thats because Lebron turned Jamison into a spot up shooter and Mike Brown barely ran any type of play for him.

So how can you blame 09 on his team?

Your post doesn't make sense. You say offense wasn't the problem then blame Lebron for turning Jamison into a 15 and 7 guy on good efficiency...that doesn't make sense.

Are you serious about 09?

You want to blame Lebron? Lebron can't guard everyone. He can't guard Howard/Lewis/Hedo. The difference in the 09 series was simple. The Cavs could not stop Howard and they had no answer for one of Hedo/Lewis because Lebron can't guard two players. Mo was also awful. Did you watch the series? Lebron was downright amazing in games 1,2,3, and 5. They lost two of those games and almost lost all 4 if it wasn't for Lebron making the game winner in game 2 and making every single play the entire 4th qtr in game 5.

The difference in 09 was simple. Howard going crazy and Mo doing nothing.

Last year it was Mo and Jamison not being able to defend at all...and Lebron's poor play in games 4 and 5.

Not hard. Stop making shit up. Gets annoying.

[DMAVS41]

What was Mo's FG against Orlando?

What were the FG% for his team against Boston last year?

Mo against the Magic. Keep in mind he also is a horrid defender:

6 of 19
7 of 21
5 of 16
5 of 15
7 of 14
6 of 12

Sorry. You aren't winning shit with a one dimensional 2nd option that can't defend playing that poorly offensively.

Mo against Boston. Keep in mind Rondo torched the Cavs. Mo "non factor" Williams:

8 of 14
1 of 9
4 of 8
3 of 9
3 of 8
8 of 18

ROFL at anyone thinking thats good enough production out of a 2nd option to beat an elite team like the Celtics.

[LBJ4MVP23]

Lbj can finish top 5 and Wade can finish top 10. Absolutely imo.

For Reference... Mj 30-6-5, LBJ 28-7-7, Wade 25-5-6

Thats for points, rebounds assists. Jordan obviously has the individual accolades and rings, but these other 2 arent done yet. Of course there are a lot of other factors, but just for comparison sake, wade and especially LBJ are doing some ridiculous things in their careers.

[kaiiu]

Your post doesn't make sense. You say offense wasn't the problem then blame Lebron for turning Jamison into a 15 and 7 guy on good efficiency...that doesn't make sense.

Are you serious about 09?

You want to blame Lebron? Lebron can't guard everyone. He can't guard Howard/Lewis/Hedo. The difference in the 09 series was simple. The Cavs could not stop Howard and they had no answer for one of Hedo/Lewis because Lebron can't guard two players. Mo was also awful. Did you watch the series? Lebron was downright amazing in games 1,2,3, and 5. They lost two of those games and almost lost all 4 if it wasn't for Lebron making the game winner in game 2 and making every single play the entire 4th qtr in game 5.

The difference in 09 was simple. Howard going crazy and Mo doing nothing.

Last year it was Mo and Jamison not being able to defend at all...and Lebron's poor play in games 4 and 5.

Not hard. Stop making shit up. Gets annoying.
I was talking about in 09 the offense wasnt the problem. Jamison wasnt even on that team:hammerhead:

U dont know what you are talkin about. Delonte shut Hedo down. Post Turkoglus numbers in that series. Lebron didnt guard ANYBODY that series. He was matched on Rafer Alston and roamed so much Alston torched him in game 3. Dwight was matched up against Z and Im sure if the Magic played the Heat he would do them just as dirty as he did the cavs. Mo averaged 18 PPG and Delonte averaged 14 ppg that series. Again offense wasnt the problem at all. Every game came down to the wire so its not like Mo shot them out of the game like u trying to make it. Rashard was lightin Andy up and Lebron as the " runner up DPOY" didnt want to guard him at all.

they lost last year because Lebron quit.

[DMAVS41]

I was talking about in 09 the offense wasnt the problem. Jamison wasnt even on that team:hammerhead:

U dont know what you are talkin about. Delonte shut Hedo down. Post Turkoglus numbers in that series. Lebron didnt guard ANYBODY that series. He was matched on Rafer Alston and roamed so much Alston torched him in game 3. Dwight was matched up against Z and Im sure if the Magic played the Heat he would do them just as dirty as he did the cavs. Mo averaged 18 PPG and Delonte averaged 14 ppg that series. Again offense wasnt the problem at all. Every game came down to the wire so its not like Mo shot them out of the game like u trying to make it. Rashard was lightin Andy up and Lebron as the " runner up DPOY" didnt want to guard him at all.

they lost last year because Lebron quit.

I know Jamison didn't play in 09.

Are you ****ing serious about blaming Lebron in 09?

He had one of the best playoff series ever.

They could not stop the Magic....like you said. That certainly was not the fault of Lebron. They tried everything. But when you can't stop Howard....you are in trouble if the team is making big shots.

The magic played awesome. Rashard Lewis made a ton of huge shots.

But also, Mo came up really small in that series. Check the above post. Thats not good enough to beat an elite team. You need more out of your 2nd guy if that 2nd guy can only impact the game on one end of the floor.

Just the truth.

Howard had games of:

30 and 13
10 and 18
24 and 9
27 and 14
24 and 10
40 and 14

On around 67% fg. Yep.....that didn't impact the series at all.
:facepalm

[kaiiu]

I know Jamison didn't play in 09.

Are you ****ing serious about blaming Lebron in 09?

He had one of the best playoff series ever.

They could not stop the Magic....like you said. That certainly was not the fault of Lebron. They tried everything. But when you can't stop Howard....you are in trouble if the team is making big shots.

The magic played awesome. Rashard Lewis made a ton of huge shots.

But also, Mo came up really small in that series. Check the above post. Thats not good enough to beat an elite team. You need more out of your 2nd guy if that 2nd guy can only impact the game on one end of the floor.

Just the truth.

Howard had games of:

30 and 13
10 and 18
24 and 9
27 and 14
24 and 10
40 and 14

On around 67% fg. Yep.....that didn't impact the series at all.
:facepalm
what the hell are you talking about?

when did I say that. Dwight was just as good as Lebron that series. Stop talkin out yo ass. I didnt blame Lebron he played great. But dont act like he the first or last star to play great and lose a series

[DMAVS41]

what the hell are you talking about?

when did I say that. Dwight was just as good as Lebron that series. Stop talkin out yo ass. I didnt blame Lebron he played great. But dont act like he the first or last star to play great and lose a series

You said they lost because of Lebron's play. Now you are saying he played great? What?

[kaiiu]

You said they lost because of Lebron's play. Now you are saying he played great? What?
:oldlol: I said he dominated the ball. U just talkin shit now because i SPOKE THE TRUTH

[DMAVS41]

:oldlol: I said he dominated the ball. U just talkin shit now because i SPOKE THE TRUTH

Its ok to dominate the ball if you are as efficient of a scorer as Lebron was in that series and set you team up with open shot after open shot that they bricked.

And once again. I'm confused. You said offense wasn't the problem, but now you are saying he lost because he dominated the ball.

Again....What?

Please make sense or stop posting.

[kaiiu]

Its ok to dominate the ball if you are as efficient of a scorer as Lebron was in that series and set you team up with open shot after open shot that they bricked.

And once again. I'm confused. You said offense wasn't the problem, but now you are saying he lost because he dominated the ball.

Again....What?

Please make sense or stop posting.
Go fvck your wife or somethin f@ggot

[Christofire]

Its ok to dominate the ball if you are as efficient of a scorer as Lebron was in that series and set you team up with open shot after open shot that they bricked.

And once again. I'm confused. You said offense wasn't the problem, but now you are saying he lost because he dominated the ball.

Again....What?

Please make sense or stop posting.

no it's not......i dont care how efficient you are, dominating the ball is death to a team, because come playoff ttime your team will not succeed. how can you say that?...

[kaiiu]

no it's not......i dont care how efficient you are, dominating the ball is death to a team, because come playoff ttime your team will not succeed. how can you say that?...
dude is on that Gloria James shit if he thinks the Cavs were gettin good open shots. If you call shooting with 2 seconds left good shot then ...

[LA_Showtime]

I truly think LeBron's playoff performance against the Magic is overrated historically. Sure, he put up gaudy numbers, but he also had stretches where he absolutely KILLED the Cavs. He wasn't clutch, and he constantly turned the ball over at all the wrong times. Don't get me wrong, I still think it was a great series, but people only remember the positives.

[DMAVS41]

I truly think LeBron's playoff performance against the Magic is overrated historically. Sure, he put up gaudy numbers, but he also had stretches where he absolutely KILLED the Cavs. He wasn't clutch, and he constantly turned the ball over at all the wrong times. Don't get me wrong, I still think it was a great series, but people only remember the positives.

explain the wasn't clutch.

he was great in crunch time in games 1, 2, and 5.

He struggled in game 3 in crunch time. Same with game 4....although he did make two clutch free throws to send it to OT.

Not clutch? Do you expect perfection?

[DMAVS41]

no it's not......i dont care how efficient you are, dominating the ball is death to a team, because come playoff ttime your team will not succeed. how can you say that?...

what the **** are you talking about?

if you are scoring the ball as efficiently as lebron and drawing the entire defense every play thats exactly what you want. you make it sound like lebron wasn't passing.

my god.

only on ISH can that series be considered Lebron's fault.

can't wait to hear showtime explain how Lebron wasn't clutch in the series even though he was absurdly clutch in three of the 5 tight games.

[Simple Jack]

Go fvck your wife or somethin f@ggot

Haha that's how you react when you clearly have no idea what the f*ck you're talking about.

And about those shots with 2 seconds left on the clock, mind posting some proof? The cliche keeps coming up but no one is posting proof.

It's funny that plenty of these players enjoyed career high %'s with LeBron setting them up on terrible shots with 2 seconds left on the shot clock.

Mo was shooting 38.5% this year without LeBron. What, was he getting shots with 1 second left as opposed to 2 this year?

[Simple Jack]

what the **** are you talking about?

if you are scoring the ball as efficiently as lebron and drawing the entire defense every play thats exactly what you want. you make it sound like lebron wasn't passing.

my god.

only on ISH can that series be considered Lebron's fault.

can't wait to hear showtime explain how Lebron wasn't clutch in the series even though he was absurdly clutch in three of the 5 tight games.

In game 5, didn't he score or assist on every play in the 4th quarter leading them to a W?

[DMAVS41]

In game 5, didn't he score or assist on every play in the 4th quarter leading them to a W?

yes.

Lebron was great in crunch time in games 1, 3, and 5.

He was pretty bad in game 3.

He was decent in game 4....for Lebron standards....anyone else and it would have been considered big time clutch by make two free throws to send it to OT with no time left.

The standards for Lebron are just impossible.

The Magic series shows this. The fact that his team lost that series just proves how little help he really had. Pathetic.

[Sarcastic]

Lebron will finish easy in top 10, and perhaps top 5. Wade will finish in top 20 pretty easily, and perhaps top 15. I don't know if he can crack top 10 considering there is not a lot of room for guards on that list, and he is not going to surpass Kobe.

[LA_Showtime]

Game one - LeBron was flat out dominant. No qualms here. Arguably one of the greatest performances ever.

Game two - He was actually pretty bad up until he hit that lucky three, so I can hardly say he choked. But he still didn't play very well up until that last minute prayer went in.

Missed shot.
Turnover.
Missed shot.
Turnover.
Make.
Missed Shot.
Turnover.

Game three - He played pretty well, but he disappeared down the stretch.

2 minutes left, Cleveland down by 6.

Missed shot.
Misses both free throws.
Turnover.
Hits three free throws.
Missed shot.


Game four - He played well in the fourth, but still had crucial mistakes that cost the team.

Missed shot.
Missed three.
1 of 2 free throws.
Turnover.
Makes both free throws.
Makes shot.
Turnover.
Turnover.
Turnover.
1 of 2 free throws.
Missed shot.
Makes 2 clutch free throws.

OT...

Turnover.
Makes three.
Turnover.
Missed shot.
Turnover.
Makes shot.
Makes 2 free throws.
Missed shot.

Game 5 -

In the second quarter, the Magic outscored the Cavaliers 37-21.

Missed shot.
Missed shot.
Makes 2 free throws.
Made shot.
Missed shot.
Missed shot.
Turnover.
Turnover.
Make.
Miss.

LeBron was much better in the 4th quarter in this game.

I'm not even gonna bother checking the final game, but he shot like 40% and just didn't play well, period.

Like I said, it was still a historic performance but it's severely overrated on these boards.

There are plenty of other examples of LeBron just disappearing or hurting his team with turnovers. I just chose the obvious examples. Go back and re-watch. You'll see 'em. He was either historically dominant or awful. There was hardly ever a medium.

[DMAVS41]

Haha that's how you react when you clearly have no idea what the f*ck you're talking about.

And about those shots with 2 seconds left on the clock, mind posting some proof? The cliche keeps coming up but no one is posting proof.

It's funny that plenty of these players enjoyed career high %'s with LeBron setting them up on terrible shots with 2 seconds left on the shot clock.

Mo was shooting 38.5% this year without LeBron. What, was he getting shots with 1 second left as opposed to 2 this year?

He posted that because he got cornered.

Here is what he said at first:

Lebron was the problem against the Magic. Then i proved him wrong and he said:

It was ball domination that was the problem.

But wait. He said offense wasn't the problem.

So I'm still confused and still waiting for an answer.



If Lebron played well according to him and offense wasn't the problem. Then was Lebron's ball domination the problem. It makes absolutely no sense.

Anyone that watched that series new what the issues were. Howard killed them and the Magic/Lewis made a ton of huge shots. It also didn't help that Mo was a complete non factor in most of the games.

LOL....totally owned.

[DMAVS41]

Game one - LeBron was flat out dominant. No qualms here. Arguably one of the greatest performances ever.

Game two - He was actually pretty bad up until he hit that lucky three, so I can hardly say he choked. But he still didn't play very well up until that last minute prayer went in.

Missed shot.
Turnover.
Missed shot.
Turnover.
Make.
Missed Shot.
Turnover.

Game three - He played pretty well, but he disappeared down the stretch.

2 minutes left, Cleveland down by 6.

Missed shot.
Misses both free throws.
Turnover.
Hits three free throws.
Missed shot.


Game four - He played well in the fourth, but still had crucial mistakes that cost the team.

Missed shot.
Missed three.
1 of 2 free throws.
Turnover.
Makes both free throws.
Makes shot.
Turnover.
Turnover.
Turnover.
1 of 2 free throws.
Missed shot.
Makes 2 clutch free throws.

OT...

Turnover.
Makes three.
Turnover.
Missed shot.
Turnover.
Makes shot.
Makes 2 free throws.
Missed shot.

Game 5 -

In the second quarter, the Magic outscored the Cavaliers 37-21.

Missed shot.
Missed shot.
Makes 2 free throws.
Made shot.
Missed shot.
Missed shot.
Turnover.
Turnover.
Make.
Miss.

LeBron was much better in the 4th quarter in this game.

I'm not even gonna bother checking the final game, but he shot like 40% and just didn't play well, period.

Like I said, it was still a historic performance but it's severely overrated on these boards.

There are plenty of other examples of LeBron just disappearing or hurting his team with turnovers. I just chose the obvious examples. Go back and re-watch. You'll see 'em. He was either historically dominant or awful. There was hardly ever a medium.

I love how making a playoff game winner to salvage any chance to win the series was "LUCKY"

I also love how you talk about the 2nd qtr in game 5. What? Are you serious. Lebron played a near perfect 4th qtr in that game.

So again. Lebron was amazing in the clutch in games 1,2, and 5.

He struggled in games 3 and 4.

And even with those struggles, he still managed to make two of the most clutch free throws in playoff history. No time left. Miss one and its game over. Lebron made both.

Only on ISH could you call Lebron not clutch in that series.
:facepalm

[kaiiu]

Game one - LeBron was flat out dominant. No qualms here. Arguably one of the greatest performances ever.

Game two - He was actually pretty bad up until he hit that lucky three, so I can hardly say he choked. But he still didn't play very well up until that last minute prayer went in.

Missed shot.
Turnover.
Missed shot.
Turnover.
Make.
Missed Shot.
Turnover.

Game three - He played pretty well, but he disappeared down the stretch.

2 minutes left, Cleveland down by 6.

Missed shot.
Misses both free throws.
Turnover.
Hits three free throws.
Missed shot.


Game four - He played well in the fourth, but still had crucial mistakes that cost the team.

Missed shot.
Missed three.
1 of 2 free throws.
Turnover.
Makes both free throws.
Makes shot.
Turnover.
Turnover.
Turnover.
1 of 2 free throws.
Missed shot.
Makes 2 clutch free throws.

OT...

Turnover.
Makes three.
Turnover.
Missed shot.
Turnover.
Makes shot.
Makes 2 free throws.
Missed shot.

Game 5 -

In the second quarter, the Magic outscored the Cavaliers 37-21.

Missed shot.
Missed shot.
Makes 2 free throws.
Made shot.
Missed shot.
Missed shot.
Turnover.
Turnover.
Make.
Miss.

LeBron was much better in the 4th quarter in this game.

I'm not even gonna bother checking the final game, but he shot like 40% and just didn't play well, period.

Like I said, it was still a historic performance but it's severely overrated on these boards.

There are plenty of other examples of LeBron just disappearing or hurting his team with turnovers. I just chose the obvious examples. Go back and re-watch. You'll see 'em. He was either historically dominant or awful. There was hardly ever a medium.
great post:applause:

[DMAVS41]

great post:applause:

other than the fact that he calls a game winner "lucky"

and posted data from the 2nd qtr from game 5.

yep. other than completely twisting reality. great post.

[LA_Showtime]

I love how making a playoff game winner to salvage any chance to win the series was "LUCKY"

I also love how you talk about the 2nd qtr in game 5. What? Are you serious. Lebron played a near perfect 4th qtr in that game.

So again. Lebron was amazing in the clutch in games 1,2, and 5.

He struggled in games 3 and 4.

And even with those struggles, he still managed to make two of the most clutch free throws in playoff history. No time left. Miss one and its game over. Lebron made both.

Only on ISH could you call Lebron not clutch in that series.
:facepalm

He wasn't consistent. He killed the team at times. He was still great, but that series will forever be overrated.

And yes, that second quarter killed his team. They had a sizable lead and could've put the Magic away, and instead let them back in the game. That part wasn't referring whether he was clutch or not, but how hot and cold he was.

LeBron should make both. That what he's paid to do. Most players of his caliber would have.

Okay. That 30 foot fade away three wasn't lucky. Yeah, right. It was slightly less lucky than Kobe's 35 foot bank shot a year ago against the Heat.

[Simple Jack]

I love how making a playoff game winner to salvage any chance to win the series was "LUCKY"

I also love how you talk about the 2nd qtr in game 5. What? Are you serious. Lebron played a near perfect 4th qtr in that game.

So again. Lebron was amazing in the clutch in games 1,2, and 5.

He struggled in games 3 and 4.

And even with those struggles, he still managed to make two of the most clutch free throws in playoff history. No time left. Miss one and its game over. Lebron made both.

Only on ISH could you call Lebron not clutch in that series.
:facepalm


It's funny because plenty of the same people suggesting LeBron wasn't clutch that series because of a few misses here and there were praising Kobe for that game against Phoenix this year where he played horrible up until hitting 1 big shot. Kobe was clutch though apparently, yet LeBron wasn't.

[LA_Showtime]

It's funny because plenty of the same people suggesting LeBron wasn't clutch that series because of a few misses here and there were praising Kobe for that game against Phoenix this year where he played horrible up until hitting 1 big shot. Kobe was clutch though apparently, yet LeBron wasn't.

Was I one of them?

[Simple Jack]

He wasn't consistent. He killed the team at times. He was still great, but that series will forever be overrated.

And yes, that second quarter killed his team. They had a sizable lead and could've put the Magic away, and instead let them back in the game. That part wasn't referring whether he was clutch or not, but how hot and cold he was.

LeBron should make both. That what he's paid to do. Most players of his caliber would have.

Okay. That 30 foot fade away three wasn't lucky. Yeah, right. It was slightly less lucky than Kobe's 35 foot bank shot a year ago against the Heat.

Have you played basketball? Since when is a 35 foot shot (terrible form), while fading left, with 2 defenders in your face, only slightly luckier than catching and shooting from a range he's shown he can hit from?

[DMAVS41]

The true game 5 clutch stats:

Lebron James assist
Lebron James assist
Lebron makes 2 free throws
Lebron makes layup
Lebron make free throw
Lebron makes layup
Lebron makes free throw
Lebron makes jumper
Lebron James assist
Lebron makes jumper
Lebron makes layup
Lebron makes jumper
Lebron James assist

That was the 4th qtr folks. Until the Magic started fouling, Lebron either scored or assisted on every single point.

ROFL at Showtime posting 2nd qtr stats over that.
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[catch24]

When in doubt bring up Kobe; that's how you win debates on ISH, didn't you know?

[DMAVS41]

Was I one of them?

Just earlier in this thread you stated the following:

"Lebron wasn't clutch in that series"
:confusedshrug:

[branslowski]

Just earlier in this thread you stated the following:

"Lebron wasn't clutch in that series"
:confusedshrug:

Pretty sure he was talking about Kobe and the 1 shot being clutch thing..

[DMAVS41]

He wasn't consistent. He killed the team at times. He was still great, but that series will forever be overrated.

And yes, that second quarter killed his team. They had a sizable lead and could've put the Magic away, and instead let them back in the game. That part wasn't referring whether he was clutch or not, but how hot and cold he was.

LeBron should make both. That what he's paid to do. Most players of his caliber would have.

Okay. That 30 foot fade away three wasn't lucky. Yeah, right. It was slightly less lucky than Kobe's 35 foot bank shot a year ago against the Heat.

And your bias and hatred is shown. Lebron got a clean look and squared up nicely.
:facepalm

[kaiiu]

And your bias and hatred is shown. Lebron got a clean look and squared up nicely.
:facepalm
Pure luck brah.

[DMAVS41]

I truly think LeBron's playoff performance against the Magic is overrated historically. Sure, he put up gaudy numbers, but he also had stretches where he absolutely KILLED the Cavs. He wasn't clutch, and he constantly turned the ball over at all the wrong times. Don't get me wrong, I still think it was a great series, but people only remember the positives.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :confusedshrug:

[LA_Showtime]

Just earlier in this thread you stated the following:

"Lebron wasn't clutch in that series"
:confusedshrug:

Yeah, he wasn't nearly as clutch or dominant as people remember. Get over it. :oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

Pretty sure he was talking about Kobe and the 1 shot being clutch thing..

No. He wasn't. Check my above quote of him.

[DMAVS41]

Yeah, he wasn't nearly as clutch or dominant as people remember. Get over it. :oldlol:

Yea...he was. Get over it.

Did he play perfect? Nope.

Did he play a great overall series and was he super clutch overall? Yep.

Sorry. Just the truth.

[LA_Showtime]

Pretty sure he was talking about Kobe and the 1 shot being clutch thing..

Nah. I said LeBron wasn't clutch. He wasn't. The guy had some terrible stretches of basketball. He still had a hell of a series, though.

[LA_Showtime]

Yea...he was. Get over it.

Did he play perfect? Nope.

Did he play a great overall series and was he super clutch overall? Yep.

Sorry. Just the truth.

Yeah, except he wasn't. Whatever. I posted evidence. You posted nothing.

[branslowski]

I think Bron would get in it quicker...Actually, it really depends on who wins the Finals MVP's...Shows leader of the titles. Shows who Batman is, and who Robin is...

[LA_Showtime]

And your bias and hatred is shown. Lebron got a clean look and squared up nicely.
:facepalm

:oldlol: @ bias and hatred. Irony.

Anyone who thinks that shot wasn't lucky is kidding themselves. Newsflash: Just because that shot was PURE LUCK doesn't mean I don't think he's one of the better closers in the game, and I'm not secretly plotting against him and finding ways to kill his legacy. I'm not you, Gyno. :roll:

[LA_Showtime]

I think Bron would get in it quicker...Actually, it really depends on who wins the Finals MVP's...Shows leader of the titles. Shows who Batman is, and who Robin is...

What if Robin kills all the bad guys but batman still gets to drive the bat mobile? Then who gets in?

[catch24]

ROFLMAO at LeBron being 'super clutch' against the Magic in 2009; did you guys even watch his road series?

I'm not saying Kobe is some demigod in the clutch, but come on. Get real.

[branslowski]

What if Robin kills all the bad guys but batman still gets to drive the bat mobile? Then who gets in?

Point of the Finals MVP is to give it to who played the best in that series to win his team the title. Wade/LeBron are like 2 Batman's...Untill one of them wins a Finals MVP over the other...Doesn't mean Robin isn't important...Kobe was Shaq's Robin....

[kaiiu]

ROFLMAO at LeBron being 'super clutch' against the Magic in 2009; did you guys even watch his road series?
Couldnt even get a road win. Couldnt hit a jumper in game 3. Missed alot of key free throws in game 4. Didnt show up in hame 6

[branslowski]

ROFLMAO at LeBron being 'super clutch' against the Magic in 2009; did you guys even watch his road series?

Did somebody really say that? Holyshit that person is dumb...Especially the multple times Magic made comebacks from being down by alot.....lol.

[DMAVS41]

Yeah, except he wasn't. Whatever. I posted evidence. You posted nothing.

you posted game 5 2nd qtr stats.....
:facepalm

[LA_Showtime]

Point of the Finals MVP is to give it to who played the best in that series to win his team the title. Wade/LeBron are like 2 Batman's...Untill one of them wins a Finals MVP over the other...Doesn't mean Robin isn't important...Kobe was Shaq's Robin....

Yeah, but Gasol arguably should have won last year. If it's a toss-up, then can you really put one over the other just because of a trophy?

*At the time, I was furious Kobe won it over him, as Kobe almost single-handedly destroyed the Lakers' chances by playing so poorly in the second quarter.

[LA_Showtime]

you posted game 5 2nd qtr stats.....
:facepalm

Oh my God. I'm sorry. I should've posted above that: Evidence LeBron hurt his time with his hot and cold play. Jesus Christ. You look for the smallest things and fail to grasp the big picture. :oldlol:

Do you really want me to bring up a bunch of shit you've been spewing these past few days? Hell, there are numerous threads from the day you joined where you've posted shit that could be dissected and read. This isn't English class. I'm not going to look over my work multiple times before pressing "submit." Get real.

[Simple Jack]

Oh my God. I'm sorry. I should've posted above that: Evidence LeBron hurt his time with his hot and cold play. Jesus Christ. You look for the smallest things and fail to grasp the big picture. :oldlol:

Says the guy who posted 2nd quarter stats (smallest thing) instead of realizing how he closed out that game (the big picture).

[Soundwave]

If they start winning titles soon, I think both will end up in the top 10 when it's all said and done.

[catch24]

Did somebody really say that? Holyshit that person is dumb...Especially the multple times Magic made comebacks from being down by alot.....lol.

He was insane statistically, but made a boatload of mistakes his road games. LA Showtime already posted the evidence and I think Fatal9 had a post about his clutch log (or lack there of) that series.

[talkingconch]

Probably not

[LA_Showtime]

Says the guy who posted 2nd quarter stats (smallest thing) instead of realizing how he closed out that game (the big picture).

Hmmm, well done. :oldlol:

Whatever. You know exactly what I'm talking about. You won't admit it, though, since you're as obnoxious as they come.

[branslowski]

Yeah, but Gasol arguably should have won last year. If it's a toss-up, then can you really put one over the other just because of a trophy?

*At the time, I was furious Kobe won it over him, as Kobe almost single-handedly destroyed the Lakers' chances by playing so poorly in the second quarter.

Kobe was clearly the finals MVP....And his 4th quarter in game 7 was better than anyones(he scored 10pts, clutch)....Also had 23pts and 15reb for the game....The whole team shot bad.

28ppg 8reb 4ast 2stl>>...

[LA_Showtime]

Kobe was clearly the finals MVP....And his 4th quarter in game 7 was better than anyones(he scored 10pts, clutch)....Also had 23pts and 15reb for the game....The whole team shot bad.

28ppg 8reb 4ast 2stl>>...

Clearly? Questionable.

His 1st half performance just really pissed me off. I wanted Kobe to approach the game the right way: Look to involve his teammates, score when needed, and set the pace. He did NONE of those things. He shot every time he touched the ball, and had a terrible attitude. He didn't try and encourage his teammates or help them achieve victory. He was complaining; he was angry; he was pouting... that first half will forever stain his legacy IMO. It's also why I don't think he'll age well, and why I think he'll eventually hurt his legacy by not aging gracefully or causing problems within the organization because of his inability to deal with new, more popular stars on the team.

[G-train]

I think Bron would get in it quicker...Actually, it really depends on who wins the Finals MVP's...Shows leader of the titles. Shows who Batman is, and who Robin is...


Based on this season, its possible in a 6 games series that each could have been MVP for 3 games.

[LA_Showtime]

Bran:

Basically, I felt like Kobe copped out. He played exactly like his haters expected him to. He was as cliche as possible, and yet he was rewarded because he had a lot of rebounds and scored 10 points in the 4th. Not right. Gasol approached the series the right way. He outplayed KG and was as good if not slightly worse than Kobe all series long. He should have been rewarded.

[LA_Showtime]

Thanks for disappearing, Gyno (again).

(Unless you're going to respond with a two-page response about why yes, LeBron was the clutchest ever)

[DMAVS41]

Thanks for disappearing, Gyno (again).

(Unless you're going to respond with a two-page response about why yes, LeBron was the clutchest ever)

What?

I already proved you wrong.

Lebron was super clutch in games 1,2, and 5.

He also made two of the most clutch free throws in nba playoff history in game 4.

His overall level of play was amazing and he was very clutch.

You listed 2nd qtr stats and ignored one of the most clutch 4th qtrs ever to further your agenda.

Pathetic.

[LA_Showtime]

So, basically nothing, okay. Well, at least you tried.

[catch24]

What?

I already proved you wrong.

Lebron was super clutch in games 1,2, and 5.

He also made two of the most clutch free throws in nba playoff history in game 4.

His overall level of play was amazing and he was very clutch.

You listed 2nd qtr stats and ignored one of the most clutch 4th qtrs ever to further your agenda.

Pathetic.

So you missed where he posted Game 3/4 and 6's 'clutch log' or the possessions prior to him hitting that GW, Game 2?

[G-train]

Not sure what this debate is about. Lebron takes responsibilty in the clutch, and has his whole career. He doesn't shy from it, and has some success and some failure.

[LA_Showtime]

Not sure what this debate is about. Lebron takes responsibilty in the clutch, and has his whole career. He doesn't shy from it, and has some success and some failure.

Yeah, but that's not what we're talking about, and I'm definitely not disputing LeBron's "clutchness." <-- We really have to think of a better word for that

[Simple Jack]

Hmmm, well done. :oldlol:

Whatever. You know exactly what I'm talking about. You won't admit it, though, since you're as obnoxious as they come.

I'm not trying to be obnoxious. I'm pointing out the obvious.

LeBron is held to a standard that no one else is held to. Other players, who have been commonly praised as the best in the league have done the same things you are criticizing LeBron for. The only problem is, the others aren't criticized for these very same things. I'm not specifically calling you out but plenty of people; MAINLY these Kobe trolls who resort to personal attacks when they are proven wrong.

He was much more effective that series, in the clutch, than he was ineffective. He hit a game winner in what for sure seemed like yet another loss and had one of the most magnificent 4th quarters of any player in recent memory in game 5. I'm not sure there's another player who could do what he did that series, yet still continue to get criticized or called out on what he COULDN'T do that series in the clutch, rather than what he actually did.

[catch24]

I still think that was one of the most dominant individual series I've seen personally... but to say he was really great in clutch situations? Nah... on the road his overall play dropped too.

[DMAVS41]

So you missed where he posted Game 3/4 and 6's 'clutch log' or the possessions prior to him hitting that GW, Game 2?

i already said he wasn't great in 2 of the games.

what does that prove.

that he wasn't clutch overall?

what?

[LA_Showtime]

I'm not trying to be obnoxious. I'm pointing out the obvious.

LeBron is held to a standard that no one else is held to. Other players, who have been commonly praised as the best in the league have done the same things you are criticizing LeBron for. The only problem is, the others aren't criticized for these very same things. I'm not specifically calling you out but plenty of people; MAINLY these Kobe trolls who resort to personal attacks when they are proven wrong.

He was much more effective that series, in the clutch, than he was ineffective. He hit a game winner in what for sure seemed like yet another loss and had one of the most magnificent 4th quarters of any player in recent memory in game 5. I'm not sure there's another player who could do what he did that series, yet still continue to get criticized or called out on what he COULDN'T do that series in the clutch, rather than what he actually did.

I was referring to previous posts that I've seen you make. If I'm thinking of the wrong person, my bad.

I guess I didn't properly describe my feelings about LeBron's playoff performance against the Mavericks. He wasn't as good nor as clutch as people remember; despite that, he was still historically good.

Oh, and I still think that game 2 prayer was lucky. :oldlol:

[catch24]

i already said he wasn't great in 2 of the games.

what does that prove.

that he wasn't clutch overall?

what?

Clutch play is defined by games on the line in the 4th with 5 or less minutes left; at least that's my definition, dont know about you? So... Games 2, 3, and 4 he was below average/awful. Yeah, he had a GW that second game, but prior to that banked-3, he was dreadful as the play-by-play/logs say. That's 3 out of the 6 games, with Game 6 being excluded because it was a blowout.

So overall, he was 'super clutch' (as you claimed) only 2 games out of 5, which is far from 'super clutch all series' (as you claimed).

[DMAVS41]

Clutch play is defined by games on the line in the 4th with 5 or less minutes left; at least that's my definition, dont know about you? So... Games 2, 3, and 4 he was below average/awful. Yeah, he had a GW that second game, but prior to that banked-3, he was dreadful as the play-by-play/logs say. That's 3 out of the 6 games, with Game 6 being excluded because it was a blowout.

So overall, he was 'super clutch' (as you claimed) only 2 games out of 5, which is far from 'super clutch all series' (as you claimed).

I guess my standard is lower than yours.

making a game winner in game 2 was super clutch to me.

and knocking down 2 of the most clutch free throw in nba playoff history is super clutch to me.

and.........your boy said he "wasn't clutch"

LOL

[LA_Showtime]

I guess my standard is lower than yours.

making a game winner in game 2 was super clutch to me.

and knocking down 2 of the most clutch free throw in nba playoff history is super clutch to me.

and.........your boy said he "wasn't clutch"

LOL

This is why no one takes you seriously.:oldlol:




I guess I didn't properly describe my feelings about LeBron's playoff performance against the Mavericks. He wasn't as good nor as clutch as people remember; despite that, he was still historically good.

[jlip]

I haven't read one post in this thread, so I don't know if I'm repeating anything, but many people have West and Baylor both in their top 15-20, and there is a combined one championship and no MVPs between them. It's possible for Lebron and Wade to be a better version of those two and both conceiveably move into the top 10-15.

[DMAVS41]

This is why no one takes you seriously.:oldlol:

LOL

game 1 super clutch
game 2 game winner
game 4 two free throws to force OT
game 5 most clutch 4th qtr possible

does it ever get old getting owned in these debates?

not clutch?

LOL

[LA_Showtime]

LOL

game 1 super clutch
game 2 game winner
game 4 two free throws to force OT
game 5 most clutch 4th qtr possible

does it ever get old getting owned in these debates?

not clutch?

LOL

You hardly owned me. The only area you'll beat me in is immaturity, which is sad.

[DMAVS41]

You hardly owned me. The only area you'll beat me in is immaturity, which is sad.

nah dude. its sad you actually think that series could be defined as "not clutch"

the fact that you still won't yield is immature.

the fact that you listed 2nd qtr stats over one of the most clutch 4th qtrs in playoff history is sad.

and you call me a hater?

a kobe hater...right?

well. Kobe's series in 09 against the Nuggets was also legendary. only a fool would think it wasn't amazing.

so who is the hater again?

[LA_Showtime]

nah dude. its sad you actually think that series could be defined as "not clutch"

the fact that you still won't yield is immature.

the fact that you listed 2nd qtr stats over one of the most clutch 4th qtrs in playoff history is sad.

and you call me a hater?

a kobe hater...right?

well. Kobe's series in 09 against the Nuggets was also legendary. only a fool would think it wasn't amazing.

so who is the hater again?

No, you're just an immature idiot. Kobe hater? Maybe. Could really care less.

And please, I yield to plenty of people. You don't yield to shit. :lol

[DMAVS41]

No, you're just an immature idiot. Kobe hater? Maybe. Could really care less.

And please, I yield to plenty of people. You don't yield to shit. :lol

Sir.

You made this statement:

"Lebron's series was over-rated and he was not clutch"

You then tried to back it up by ignoring all of the moments he was clutch and focus on only the moments he played poorly.

Anyone without bias knows that was a legendary series and that Lebron was definitely "clutch" overall.

LOL at thinking you proved anything by listing 2nd qtr stats and turnover totals.
:wtf:

[LA_Showtime]

Sir.

You made this statement:

"Lebron's series was over-rated and he was not clutch"

You then tried to back it up by ignoring all of the moments he was clutch and focus on only the moments he played poorly.

Anyone without bias knows that was a legendary series and that Lebron was definitely "clutch" overall.

LOL at thinking you proved anything by listing 2nd qtr stats and turnover totals.
:wtf:

*Sigh*. I've addressed your posts already. He performed poorly in at least 4/6 games. Whatever; you're a brick wall. I'll be wiser next time and just ignore your BS. Grow up, kid.

[DMAVS41]

*Sigh*. I've addressed your posts already. He performed poorly in at least 4/6 games. Whatever; you're a brick wall. I'll be wiser next time and just ignore your BS. Grow up, kid.

He performed poorly in 4 out of 6 games......what?

Are you serious?

1. 49/6/8....great crunch time play
2. 35/5/4.....game winner
3. 41/9/7.....2 turnovers
4. 44/12/7....8 turnovers...played ok in crunch time/OT....did make two huge free throws to send it to OT
5. 37/14/12.....one of the best 4th qtrs in playoff history
6. 25/7/7

Yep. Sure looks like he performed poorly in 4 of the 6 games.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[LA_Showtime]

He performed poorly in 4 out of 6 games......what?

Are you serious?

1. 49/6/8....great crunch time play
2. 35/5/4.....game winner
3. 41/9/7.....2 turnovers
4. 44/12/7....8 turnovers...played ok in crunch time/OT....did make two huge free throws to send it to OT
5. 37/14/12.....one of the best 4th qtrs in playoff history
6. 25/7/7

Yep. Sure looks like he performed poorly in 4 of the 6 games.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

What have we been talking about? In the clutch, idiot. :oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

What have we been talking about? In the clutch, idiot. :oldlol:

Hey moron.

When you make a game winner...its clutch.
:facepalm

Idiot. You talked about the entire series.